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The manosphere is trash! Feminists warned you! · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Sorry for the delay. My name is Brian Alison and
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: this is maintaining frame the Man of Spheres trash and
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: the feminists warned you about it. Where we're going to
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: be looking at an article from the Bogie Hunter herself
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Lori Penny, we haven't really seen for a very long time.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Lori Penny is like an old like gamer Gate feminist
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: from twenty fourteen. I don't know if you remember her
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: at all, Allison, you probably don't. They all blend together,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: but yeah.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: They do blend together. But give us, give us a
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: rundown of her best hits.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Well, I do happen to have the best of the
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: best hits. So in twenty fourteen, I want to say
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, twenty sixteen, No, it was twenty fourteen. He
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: did a debate. There was a viral clip of her
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: doing a debate. But let me tell you a little
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: bit about who she is. So Lori Penny is basically
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: a she's according to her, this is her website, loripenny
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: dot me, which is a propros of the kind of
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: person she is. She is an author, a journalist, a
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: games writer and a screenwriter interested in stories, systems, sex,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: social justice, gender, games, economics, neurodiversity, language, power, political technology,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: and cultural evolution. It's a mouthful. So yeah, so she's
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist. Okay, and English, an English one, or
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: she would say British. And the reason why I say
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: that is because she did this debate against this guy
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: named David Starkey and a couple of other people and
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: they were debating Britishness versus Englishness. So like this was
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: about English identity in twenty fourteen, which is sort of
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: like an ongoing discussion even now. And I want to
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: share a clip, but before I get into that, maybe
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: you want to do the things you're about to get
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: into some Lori Penny stuff. Some of this is gonna
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: be great because we're gonna get into some of the
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: fiction that she's done, and I'm sure Allison will have
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: some words, but go ahead.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I hope you give me a few titles to
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: look up and maybe put through my.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I have stuff. Oh you have stuff?
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, okay, I have stuff.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: I have it primed here.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: So okay, do you do you have a you have
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: a title I could look up?
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Or you want like a show that she was involved
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: with writing, or a book that she.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Wrote, a book that she wrote.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: She wrote a book called Everything Belongs to the Future.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: It's a twenty six he wrote it in twenty sixteen,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: and it's a science fiction novella that in the near
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: future Oxford, where the wealthy can purchase centuries long lifespans
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: through an expensive life extension drug known as the Fix.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: The story explores themes of time inequality, time inequality, gerontocracy,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: geontocracy I guess, and social class stratification. The plot follows
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: a group of anarchist misfits and a brilliant scientist named
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Daisy Craver, who invented the Longevity Treatment as an attempt
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: to overthrow the gerontocratic biopower by distributing a generic, free
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: version of the drug. The narrative is described as a
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: bloody minded tale of time, betrayal, desperation, and hope, featuring
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: complex characters like Alex, an undercover agent whose actions include
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: rape and manipulation, which Penny unflinchingly condemns.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, here's an even better one. I think this is
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: a philosophical TREATI sye. It's called sexual revolution modern fascism.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: In the feminist fight back. And this is literally, this
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: is literally the leftist meme. I'm gonna send it to you.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: That's you know what, you can write books if you
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: just make a leftist meme, that is a book, basically.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: But this is the This is apparently the cover of
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: the book, which is astounding to me. But I'm going
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: to send it to you, and uh, here here is
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: here is uh just give me a second here, guys.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: And I apologize because I was the reason this started.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Late my microphone just died and you just stopped working
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: and I I could not explain what the heck just happened.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so I'm going to send this to Brian
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: so he can take a look at that because it's astounding,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to read it and if he if
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: he puts it up. Marie Penny, this is a story
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: about how modern masculinity is killing the world and how
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  Speaker 2: feminism can save it. It's a story about sex and
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  Speaker 2: power and trauma and resistance and persistence. At the center
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  Speaker 2: of that story is one simple idea. We are in
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: the middle of a sexual revolution. So that's the person
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: she is, Guys, how modern masculinity is killing the world.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: That's that's right. She is one of the she is
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: one of the classics.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and one actually having read that, is there a
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: traditional masculinity that she would say was not killing the world?
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Of course not.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: So what she.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Says, what she's essentially saying is masculinity was a mistake.
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  Speaker 2: We we should never have evolved men. They are wrong
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: and they probably shouldn't exist, at least not as they
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: are not carefully controlled and with carefully curated internal and internalness.
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  Speaker 2: This is this is a bigot. This is a massive bigot.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: And of course she's published by the Guardian like this,
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  Speaker 2: this is the people they publish. Yes, modern masculinity is
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  Speaker 2: killing the world. I can tell her. A lot of
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: things are killing the world. It is not masculinity, all right.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: All right, so let's get let's do the things, and
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: then we'll get into I'll show you guys the clip,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: my favorite clip of Lori Penny, and then we'll get
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: into her Guardian article about the manisphere.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, So, if you would like to send us some message,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: and I really hope you do for this one, you
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: can do so at feed the badger dot com slash
• 6:35
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• 6:37
  Speaker 2: just the tip very best way for you to send
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• 6:42
  Speaker 2: and the best way for you to send us a
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: comment with that tip. And if you would like to
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: support the show, the fundraiser is live. It's at feedbadger
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: dot com slash support. Please do help us out because
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of forces a raid against us.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: And I know that sounds paranoid, but there really are.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I thought I was paranoid starting out, but then I
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: found out more and the rabbit hole goes deep. I'm
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: not exactly sure why we belong on blacklists in the
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Alphabet Agency is in the US government, but apparently we
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: are on them. And I also know that there are
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: feminists who have a direct line to the Status quo
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: at YouTube who also tell them to censor us. And
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: then there's also the fact that what we talk about
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: is not comfortable. But anyway, if you want to support
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: us so we can continue to talk about it in
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: the way that we do. Feed the Badgery dot com
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: slash support and yes, let's let's see what the Guardian
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: pays for.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so I did get a super chat
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: right off the bat, from Gabriel Felon Lucas and he says,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: for two pounds, Biopower sounds like an anime like The Guiver.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: There was a there's an anime called Bio Biohunter that
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: was pretty good. Maybe that's what you were thinking about. Okay,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: So first I want to show this clip. So this
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: is like what people If you know or remember Lori Penny,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: it's probably because you saw this viral clip from twelve
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: years ago where she was debating David Starkey listening.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: To if you ask Me, and I've actually recently been
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: living in America for a while, so I get asked
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: this question quite a lot, and I bring up things
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: like they taste of fish and chips on Brighton Beach
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: and doctor Who and drinking tea. That's what it is
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  Speaker 3: for me. If you ask somebody like my colleague, Professor Starkey,
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  Speaker 3: it's playing xenophobia and racial prejudice for laughs. And if
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: you ask people who organized people who organize conferences like this,
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  Speaker 3: it's sitting by politely whilst people play racial prejudice and
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  Speaker 3: xenophobia for laughs and pretending that this is an acceptable
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  Speaker 3: part of contemporary debate.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: We're study performs by coffee you hair between. So you
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: saw that she made an opening statement. She said, Oh,
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  Speaker 1: for me, Britishness is these innocent things like ta and
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: doctor Who. But for David Starkey, this is a guy
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  Speaker 1: she's supposed to be debating on the principles of this stuff.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: She just says, oh, it's xenophobia and racism. So she
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: just immediately attacks him. Obviously that's what feminists do. So
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  Speaker 1: I want to show the bit where Starkey let me
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: lean back a little starky gets in there.
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  Speaker 4: That's a dichophomy there. The two are completely different. There
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: is a historic English identity which goes way back before
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: the concept of Britain. Also, this notion of England or
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: indeed Britain as uniquely a nation of immigrants is preposterous.
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: That every European country is a blend.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: Of course it is.
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: And the great there are two great differences.
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  Speaker 3: American I was wondering, where are you for tax purposes?
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: I'm bummitschild here and I pay full taxes. And can
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: I just say, as you have chosen, if you have
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  Speaker 4: chosen to be person an invidious, let me share a
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: little story with you. One of the great one of
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: the great things that is essential to Britishness is a
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  Speaker 4: sense of public duty, that you do things for nothing
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: with organizations that can't pay. Miss Penny, who has been
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  Speaker 4: advertising these great left wing virtues and I were due
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: to debate for a very impoverished little society called the
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: Thomas Payne Society on the virtues of public on the
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: one hand and a monarchy on the other. I I
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: was prepared to do it for free. She insisted on
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: trying to charge such a large fee that the event
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: had to be canceled. Now, I think that is as me,
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: some runtmedian, and I will not be electured to by
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: a jumped up public schoolgirl like you. I came from
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  Speaker 4: the bottom and I will not have it.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: It's easy, is it still?
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Go?
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: That's I mean, that's mainly the clip, but basically she
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: and then what she she tries to do. I'll just
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: summarize it a little bit. Go ahead.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Of that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course she's the victim of that. Yeah, yeah,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: she She basically says that hold on, I'm moving my camera.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: She basically says that one of the reasons why she
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: uh felt like she you know, had to turn down.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: So first she's first, it's because of the money. So
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: she says, oh, no, you know, I don't make a
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: lot of money, and I needed to pay for a
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: flight or whatever. And then when that because then Starkey says, well,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I have the I have the receipts. Essentially says I
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: have all the emails at show. You know, we can
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: like go through them if you want. And then she
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: changes topics and says, well, actually, this this debate and
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: like how how I'm being attacked here is actually like
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: the evidence, you know basically that I'm I felt like
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: I was in danger. So that's basically where the pivot
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: is at. So, yeah, he doesn't put up with.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: What of course she's in freaking danger. That's where they
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: all go, I'm in danger, No you're not. What is
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: this old dude gonna do to you in front of
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: him an audience? What is he gonna do? Spill tea
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  Speaker 2: on you?
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Like? But she had to frame him as a bigot
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: in order to win the argument, because that's basically everything
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: that she runs on. So that is like basically like
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: a very you know, it's a throwback. It's a bit
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: of a we're going down memory lane. If you guys
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: have been with us long enough we definitely responded to
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: it back when it first happened. This was twenty fourteen.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: God knows, I watched it a lot. I watched it
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: on repeat. So but like, okay, so this is the
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: person we're dealing with, all right. Basically that's that's my point.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: She's always the victim. She calls everybody bigots, and she
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: she makes a lot of money. Like I actually looked
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: into this. Another thing is I was curious about how
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: much money does she make. She asked for ten thousand
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: dollars typically or virtual events, and twenty thousand for like
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: physical in person events or she she's basically says, we
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: drop a contract and she's she's a communist supposedly, So like,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: this is that that that I cause? Up? He said
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: it was it was such a large fee, and this
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: organization that they were supposed to be speaking at, they
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: were a small group and they couldn't afford to pay
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: a lot. So he said, well I'll do it for nothing. No.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I mean the thing is that this isn't insulting.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: If she's a communist, why is she so focused on
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: acquiring in capital or money?
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, yes, you need a certain amount to live,
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: but you don't need ten thousand dollars for a virtual appearance?
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Is this back in twenty thirteen? Ten thousand dollars and
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: thirteen dollars twenty thirteen money?
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Is that what I always that? Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so what is that like? Thirty thousand dollars now
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: thirty thousand dollars to appear virtually like we do every
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: almost every weekday.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: For free, yep, and.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Sixty thousand dollars to actually go to a place that's
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: astounding to me. And then you turn around and say
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: you're a communist.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, she offers a budget, She offers a discount like
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: five grand if it's a student organization though, so you know,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: it's looking out for the young, for the young people,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: for the ute. Yeah, it's five grand if you're a
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: student organization. Yeah yeah, yeah, well look that the thing
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: is is that pointing out the hypocrisy of communists making
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: money is just kind of silly because they'll just say that, oh, well,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: I have to operate within this broken system in order
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: to but ultimately there they don't care about standards, they
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: don't have anything.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: It pays well, it pays well.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it pays well.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like that it's not just oh, hey, she's a communist,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: look at how much money she makes. And it's not
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: really communism that she's probably making the money from. It's feminism.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Let's be honest, and you could say, oh, look at
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: how much money she makes, or she's she's a hypocrite.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: But also, this is what the market pays for feminism.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: And there's a reason why the market pays this for feminism,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: because feminism is a firewall for financialization, for taking commodities,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: for taking productivity, for taking industry, and rent seeking on it.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Feminists are the ones who are caping for the men
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: who are doing that. So of course they make lots
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: of money because they defend predation on mostly male industries
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: by finance like people are who are basically rent seeking
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: on it using all kinds of financial instruments that are
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: destroying the plumbing that actually creates industry and actually facilitates
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: the creation of commodities. I know that's a little bit
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: more complex, but just look at it this way. Feminists
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: are the shield for this financialization empire, this this crony
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: capitalism that is in bed with the government. They are
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: their shield. That's why since all of this rhetoric has
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: started to accelerate since like the seventies. You notice how
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: this this this esg DEI feminist language, especially the feminist
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: feminist is precursor for all of it. It's just gradually,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: not even gradually, started to just exponentially increase in the culture.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I mean you can look at the terms increasing in
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: places like the Guardian and other media outlets and an
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: academic Meanwhile, what's happening to CEO pay. It's going from
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: twenty to thirty times the average income of the worker
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: to two hundred and three hundred times and in particular
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: sectors six hundred times. So as we see this proliferation
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: of these concepts, we see the C suite starting to
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: earn more and more and more relative to the average worker.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: What are they earning on It's not productivity that is,
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: that is CEO income completely divorced from the productivity of
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: a of a company, completely divorced from the free market.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: That is the income of men, mostly men who are
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: being backstopped by the FED. And all of this is
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: protected by their handmaidens and picknes and patriarchal I'm going
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: to use the I'm going to use their language. Women
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: like this who are caping for some of the most
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: destructive elites in human history. And that's why she makes
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: what is it ten thousand dollars in twenty thirteen money,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars in twenty thirteen money to appear and
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: justify and spread the message that protects this destruction, this parasitism.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: All right, I'm going that is my economics rank rank
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: rank economics rank. My economics rank is c plus. By
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: the way, that is my economics rant. Let's uh, I
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: guess continue.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get into the article. Though. You guys
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: know that Louis Thru's documentary Into the Inside the Manisphere
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: has come out, and of course this has caused a
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: title wave of takes from the usual suspects. Lori Penny,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: of course, has written an article for The Guardian. Feminists
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: began raising the alarm about the Manisphere decades ago, and
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: we were ignored. We were told we couldn't take a
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: joke and that social media isn't real life. Now the
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: misogyny of early chat rooms and gamergate has reached the
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: White House. It's gamergate, boys. We never left, We never left. Yes,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: hs Tiki Talkie totally a gamer Gate guy. I'm sure
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: he was really into you know, counter strike or something.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Huhh ten yeah, yeah, right, he was like twelve, All right?
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Should I just keep reading? Why has it taken Okay,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: why has it taken so long for us to treat
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: misogyny as a political problem? The modern manisphere has been
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: metastasizing for many years, and for years mainstream culture has
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: responded with a helpless shrug. There was nothing unusual about
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: men hurting women, even if the technology was new. There's
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: a lot baked into that first paragraph. What do they
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: mean by why has it taken so long for us
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: to treat misogyny as a political problem? What does she want?
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: What does she want? What does it mean?
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: She's maintaining the threat narrative?
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Well, that's true. But when you say this is a
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: political problem, like what are you What are you getting at?
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Are you saying that we should do we need some
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: kind of final solution to this problem? I mean, I
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: I could only imagine that eventually they want to go
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: with you know what? I yeah, yeah, there's only there's
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: there's very few places that we could accelerate to with
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: our concern over misogyny.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: We're already we're.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Already pre terminal at this point. Yeah, you're right, Like,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: what what is the what is what is it that
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: she is asking? That's a really good question, Brian. What
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: what will satisfy Lori Penny? I can I can make
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: some guesses, but let us continue.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: All right? I got a super chow from dark Kiki
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Mora for five dollars, and they say has has Lori
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Penny blamed Gamergate on Epstein yet like everyone else is
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Now if the old joke was you could post child
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: porn on four Chan but not talk about Gamergate. I
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: don't think epstein supposed involvement in poll is the flex
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: they think it is. I just are reading the article,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: so I don't know if any and any of that's
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: in here.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: We don't know. We can't speculate. Sorry, let's get a
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: little bit further in. Maybe Epstein will be pulled into this, okay.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: All right. In the early aughts, angry and alienated men
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: began indulging in recreational misogyny online, bombarding women and girls
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: in the public eye with threats, insults, harassment, hacking, and
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: hideous revenge porning. Hacking, Yes, hacking.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: And revenge porn huh, which is actually perpetuated mostly by women.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Oh is he talking about Maybe she's talking about the fappening.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: The fappening.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, remember the happening. It was a bunch of like
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: nudes like like that celebrities if they got leaked or something.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: But I mean, I I don't think that was a
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: gendered issue. I mean, sure it was probably like majority women,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: but I think there were a lot of men on
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: there too, and there were women that were participating in
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: like the downloads or whatever. So I don't know, that's
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: all I can think. I mean, I don't, I don't know.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I don't. It's basically the.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: It's it's per regular. They just take things that men
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: and women or even women engage in more and they
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: just blame them on men. And this is masculinity, herpiderb
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: and it's it's sort of infuriating because more and more
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: that I research into this, the more I'm realizing that
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: the disasters that we have experienced, and the disasters we
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: are currently experiencing now, and the disasters we are going
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: to experience, are because the men who are closest to
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: the production of anything, closest to the metal that is
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: the tools that produce things like oil, minerals, metals, and
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: produce consumable goods and produce infrastructure. Those men aren't listened
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: to at all in our society. The deep Water Horizon,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: there were men trying to tell the C suite that
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: there was a problem, right and amazingly, there was a
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: bunch of executives on that platform like the day it exploded,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: saying how amazing their safety record was. You know why
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: their safety record was amazing because they counted things like
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: men having to hold the rail as they walked down
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: the stairs. They counted things like when you're in the
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: parking lot, you have to put this little yellow raft
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: underneath your oil pan to catch every drip. That was
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: a BP safety initiative, and it created a gigantic paper
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: trail of how seriously BP took safety. But you know
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: what they weren't doing. They weren't doing They were not
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: listening to the men who could see that the equipment
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: was needing to be replaced, that the fire fire alarms
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: needed to be replaced, that the pipe's thickness of the
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: walls was getting dangerously thin. They didn't listen to any
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: of those men, and the frickin thing blew up and
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: pumped like metric tons of oil, and they still have
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: not corrected this, the fact that there is now no
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: information transfer between the men who are building, maintaining, creating,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: and the people with the funds to actually fix stuff.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: The biggest thing we could do right now to improve
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: our world is to give the men maintaining it a voice.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: And why isn't that happening Because all of the energy
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: is getting sucked into this twat all of it, So
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: nobody has to pay attention to what's really wrong and
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: who really needs to be heard because she can trot
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: out and say, no, it's the marginalize, it's the minorities
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: in women who need to be heard, and that takes
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: all the energy away from recognizing it's the men who
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: are doing stuff that need to be heard. And so
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: what's really egregious about the deep water horizon? That's the
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: platform that exploded, right the BP, that's British Petroleum. Right
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: before all this, they were committed to green energy. So
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of people say that this happened because of greed,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: except BP was spending one point five billion dollars on
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: green energy or renewable energy and a couple hundred million
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: on rebranding itself while cutting get this, while cutting the
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: departments that were responsible for making sure that their company
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: was engaate, was actually practicing safety, like was actually within
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: safe bounds, safe metrics, their safety departments. They cut those back.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Isn't it a freaking astounding So it wasn't greed because
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: they were taking money from departments that overseed the safety
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: of of this infrastructure, of this equipment, and they were
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: routing it. Well, there was pennies to oversee the safety,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: but they were spending billions on green energy and renewable
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: and DEI initiatives. That wasn't greed. It was these freakin
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm running out of I gotta calm down
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: so I can remember my freaking words nouns. I'm terrible
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: with nouns, all right. It's these corporate executives and their
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: desire to change their narrative, to rebrand themselves to become
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: a green company that constructed this entire disaster. They took
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: money from safety protocols, repairs, equipment repairs, and maintenance to
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: put it towards this shit, and that led to this disaster.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: And after all of this, after it was found that
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: there was a whole bunch of men working the pipes
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: who told who are trying to tell the executives that
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: they needed maintenance. After that was found out, guess what
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: BP said in our company, there are marginalized voices who
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: have been silenced, you know, and the end that the
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: silencing caused all of these disasters, and we are going
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: to stop silencing those marginalized voices. Who do you think
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: they were referring to when they talked about silencing marginalized voices?
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Do you think it was the men who were I
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: believe entirely white cis het men who were telling them,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: you gotta fix this or somebody's gonna die. No, it's
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: not them, They mean minorities and women. So the very
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: men who were screaming the alarm, they have permanently silenced
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: in their kind, in their corporate culture. And then we
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: have to listen to the crap like Larry Penny. Meanwhile,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: this is this is this is a pattern that is
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: repeating over and over, and the more I look into it,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: it is fucking everywhere our society. Everywhere is this exact pattern.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: The men, men, men. I am not using the word
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: woman because it's not women. The men who are being
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: silenced are the ones we need to be listening to
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: because they are keeping us alive and they are doing
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: it by the freaking skin of their freaking fingers at
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: this point, and nobody's listening to them. They're listening to
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: these truck what what did that guy call her?
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know, hopped up schoolgirl or something like that.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: School girls. Okay, sorry, I'm went on a bit.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Of a rent. Yeah, it seems like you're more interested
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: in talking about this other thing than the article. I
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: don't know, it just you've ranted about this like twice. Now,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: is that like because I know it's on your mind.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: I know that's what it's been the thing lately, But
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: is that what we're doing?
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Well, I will go back to the article. All right,
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: it's just infuriating.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I understand. And all right, so all right that this
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: is the look for those of you guys who are
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: just not joining us. This is Lori Penny, who is
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist and writer, wrote an article basically saying
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: feminists began raising the alarm about the manisphere decades ago
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: when we were ignored. So it's like a big old like, hey,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: I pointed this out a long time ago. Give me
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: more money. I think that's where that's going to land on. Basically,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I should be doing more speaking engagements. Okay. Strange as
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: it may now sound, though, the Internet was still seen
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: as separate from real life. That at least was what
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I was told the first time I went to the
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: police about the death threats I was receiving as a
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: young columnist. Nothing could be done because what happened on
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: social media wasn't real and didn't count if they didn't
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: like it.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: If there were actual death threats, they would have.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Claimed there were. She claims that she went.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: To uh huh. If there were actual death threats, the
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: police would have done something.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: So Laurie, you're a lying Probably yes, especially in the UK.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, she's in the UK. If somebody like posted
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: about like something mean online, they can get arrested. So
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: if I didn't like it, I should get offline and
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: presumably continue my work via rotary phone. In facts, those
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: of us who are early targets of what would become
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the manisphere did not have the luxury of ignoring the issue.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: For us, it was easy to see that this was
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: something new and serious, easy to understand how the tactics
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: use against US might be deployed elsewhere and how quickly
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: matters could escalate, which is what happened in twenty fourteen.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: In May of that year, the terrorist Elliott Roger killed
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: six people and brought global attention to in cells young
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: men radicalized by sexual resentment. So now we're going to
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: invoke Elliott Roger. He's like, this is how you know
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: that these things almost never happen is they only have
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: like a handful of examples that can point to, and
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: they have to go back to like stuff from like,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: you know what, twenty fourteen is twelve years ago. So
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: we're gonna bring up a twelve year old incident and
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: again not as simple as the media puts, you know,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: claimed it to be. But we I don't want to
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: get into the stuff about Elliott Roger right now. Three
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: months later came gamer Gate, a global orgy of online
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: harassment that's oddly sexual would use a global orgy of
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: online harassment targeting women in the video game industry. It
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: all started when up and coming game creator Zoe Quinn
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: was attacked by a bitter ex boyfriend, and a book
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: length length tirade of sexual and professional jealousy. You mean
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: the guy who's committed suicide after or is that a different.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Was he the guy who committed No, this was Ale Heloka?
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Is the guy who committed suicide? No. I don't know
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: who did the original Zoe post, but Alec Heloko was
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: falsely accused by Zoe Quinn and even his own sister
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: turned against him and believed him, believed her rather, and
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: it drove him to suicide. So I don't know if
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: he was the one who made the Zoe posts. But
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know for sure. It's been a long time.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: But anyway, the non scandal became a lightning rod for
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: tens of thousands of gamers, furious that women were intruding
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: on a medium that was meant to be their personal
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: power fantasy. Yeah, how have things gone since then? Were
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: we right? Were we right about that? M H On
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: anonymous forums like four Chan, men coordinated in an extraordinary
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: campaign of abuse, stressed up as concern for journalistic ethics.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Quinn and other creators were driven from their homes, but
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the firestorm was already out of control. Over the next
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: few years, as in cells continue to carry out acts
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: of mass murder, this sounds like she's making it sound
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: like they're all colluding, the in cells and gamer Gate
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: like anection. Every entertainment industry, from comics and publishing, the
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: film and TV was besieged by obsessive trolls casting themselves
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: as brave rebels against illiberal social justice warriors. The more
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: they got away with it, the more they treated it
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: like a game. Okay, I oh, oh yeah, I know. Yeah.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: The Zoe post was another. It was a different guy.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. I can't pronounce his name right now,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: but I know, I know it's like Aaron something. But anyway,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: so she's basically giving us the history here. Gamer game
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: brought together the disparate strands of what we now call
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: the manosphere, the grifting pickup artists, the Christian nationalists, the
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: bitter in cell. Yeah, apparently it did. Yes, Gamergate did that. Well,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I mean I don't. I mean, look, I think that
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: there you could make an argument that some people that
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: were supportive of Gamergate later went on to you know,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: be like involved with men's issues. You could argue that,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I think, but that's not quite the framing that Lori
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Penny is trying to set up. You know, like I
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: was pro gamer Gate, and I'm pro men, so I
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: could be an example of that. I don't. I don't
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: consider myself necessarily to be part of the manisphere. And
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: I talked with It's Complicated John on the fireside Chat
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: earlier this week, and we talked all about our problems
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: with the manisphere because they're basically blue pilled guys. But
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it doesn't matter to
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: somebody like Lori Penny. I mean, she basically said that
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: the pick up artists, the Christian Nationalists, and the in
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: cells are all basically marching in lockstep, like they're different
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: parts of the same unit. But what are they like?
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Because so Christian nationalists or whatever that even means those
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: we're talking about Christians, Okay, Christian patriots, let's say, so
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: sort of like prat Con types, and then PUA's and
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: then in cells. What what do they have in common?
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Aaron Gianni, thank you. What do they have in common?
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: They're men, That's that's the only thing they have in common.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: They're men that have different world views, but they are
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: men who are basically maybe they're critical of feminism or
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: they're critical of women in certain context, or at least
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: they they have like maybe they have a different kind
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: of prescription for women like PUA's. You know, they're basically
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: like they basically like use the system to get with women.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: The Christians probably think that women should be biblical, and
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: they're in their behavior and their values and the in
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: cells are you know, upset because they can't get with them.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: So but they all like have and they all blame
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: feminism for part, you know, for parts of the problems
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: that we all face. So ultimately, I think that Lori
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Penny's issue is with these people not being feminists and
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: also being men, although I would argue that some of
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: them are feminist in a way, but just not enough
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: for her, you know. So I mean that's all I
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: can That's all I can think of. So Christians women,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Christian women say menisphere is bad for men as feminism
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: is for women. That don't think the Christians are in
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: men's corner. I never said that. Why do you do
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: that all the time? Why do you keep bringing that up?
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Like I never said that the Christians are men's rights activists,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: but some Christians are also men's rights activists like me,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: So am I like not like am I not down
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: with men? Because I'm a Christian, Like, why do you
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: do that night most cyclists? Why are you so black
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: people all the time. It's kind of annoying because it's
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: like you come into the chat and you just throw
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: shade at like you know every value that and I
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: don't even know what you're for. You're just against everything.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: It's weird. But anyway, sorry, I just I just I
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: get tired of seeing that. It's so like it's like
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: why am I doing a show if every time I
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: come on here, I have to like defend normal people
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: who just might be bluepilled or like mistaken about reality.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: You know, I just I'm tired of it, Like it's exhausting. Dude,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: give me a solution, propose something. What do we do?
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Should we genocide the Christians? Would that make you happy?
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Should we get rid of all the right wingers because
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: they're not pro men's rights enough? Should we do something
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: about them? Or should we just keep having conversations and
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: maybe change some minds? How about that? That's what I'm
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: trying to do. It's productive anyway. So huh. It's bad
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: enough that I have to deal with feminists that are
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: just constantly like bashing men endlessly, and they're trying to
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: find ways to throw them in prison. You know, they're
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: trying to destroy their lives. And Night Motorcycles are like, well,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: well you guys are no better. It's like, what are
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: you talking about. Nobody's throwing anyone in jail. No one's
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: assassinated any fucking you know, like any like any feminists
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: for or even like trad cons. They haven't. They haven't
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: assassinated in the MRAs, but they've been killed. Is that
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: an issue anyway? So get some perspective the and and again,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: you know, Laura Penny's trying to throw everybody in the
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: same bucket, because the point is she's creating a and
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: this is like a thing that they always do. They
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: create a certain kind of framework, right. The framework is
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: that the only good people are the ones that operate
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: within their very specific boundaries of what is acceptable to
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: believe and agree with, and anyone else is an enemy
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: of that, even if all the other people are not
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: in lockstep with each other, like, which is the point
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: I was trying to make. Where you have the the
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: in cells, the Christian Nationalists, which which is how she's
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: framing it, and the PUAs they're all in the and
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: like and Gamergate is all in the same camp, even
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: though those people would likely disagree with each other on
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of things. But that doesn't matter to Lori
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Penny because to them, they're all her enemy, and it's
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: easier to paint that way, like we are considered in
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: her logic part of the manisphere too, even though I
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: think the manisphere is wrong about a lot of things.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: So are there any actual in cells left? Well, it's
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: not something people choose to be. It's it's a situation
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: that men find themselves in. So what were you gonna say, Alison.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I'm surprised that she hasn't included turfs or men's rights activists.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, I you know what, I think MRAs might show.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: I haven't gotten into this yet, but I think MRAs
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: are definitely a part of the problem. Turfs maybe that's
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: a good that she might we might find them in there.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Okay. So the slurry of half formed
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: fixations congealed into a coherent ideology of aggrieved entitlement with
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: its own lefe escaping the matrix, taking the red pill,
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: and their own logic of heroic victimhood in the face
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: of women's sexual power. The rage and alienation of men
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: abandoned by post crash capitalism was channeled towards a common
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: cause one right for co option by the worst possible actors.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Wait wait, wait, wait yeah, alienation of men abandoned by
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: post crash capitalism, you mean crony capitalism backstop by the
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: FED creating a gigantic fat berg that has destroyed upward
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: mobility and has it has basically constructed chasm between the
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: c suite and the men who actually create anything. Is
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: that what you're talking about?
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: And she would just call that capitalism, Alison, because her
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: goal is to destroy that, so it doesn't matter. You
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: can you can explain to her that it's actually like
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: you know, government corporate collusions.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Is it's okay for men to actually have a problem
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: with that or not? Right, because this is the thing,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: like this is this is the problem that she is
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: an assassin of that she is the one destroying, Like
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: that's the men who have a problem with this system,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: which is basically a system in which if you are
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: too big to fail, your losses are socialized to the taxpayer,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: so the taxpayer pays for your losses while you keep
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: the gains. Right, if a man has a problem with
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: that system. Is that okay with Lori Penny? Because she
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: talks about, oh, I'm camm I'm communist, I'm anti capitalist,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: And yet right here she is basically shaming men for
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: having a problem with the thing that she thinks they
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: should have a problem with if they don't channel that
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: rage properly, how do you channel that rage properly? Right?
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: I think that her issue is that they're not recognizing
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: the problem as what she describes as post crash capitalism.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: So those the men in the manisphere, the ones in
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: the documentary, are they would describe that they would be
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: described or they would describe themselves as entrepreneurs. And to her,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: that's a problem because what they should be doing is
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I guess, starting the revolution and burning it all down.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: But instead they're trying to adapt to the system that
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: she thinks is broken. And yes, I know there's problems
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: with it, but I think that I don't think Lori
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Penny sees what you are seeing, Alison. I think Lori
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Penny's just being a child and saying I think things
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: should be free. That's that I mean. I think that
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: she's got a childish view of the world. I think
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: all communists do.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: But that she's getting paid significant amounts of money for
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: this opinion. And people have to ask themselves, who is
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: it benefiting this opinion? Who is Lori Penny running cover
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: for you think it's And it is anybody who this
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: sometimes is really difficult to articulate, but it's anybody who
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: is arguing against the world as it stands who says
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: that we need to return to the values of the
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: free market. Right, that those values disciplined people, and well
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: the men who engaged in it, and they prevented things
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: like socializing the big players' losses while they get to
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: keep their gains. Right, that the free market prevented that.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: But what was the narrative that said the free market
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: was patriarchy and toxic masculinity, and we're going to do
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: away with it to make everything more empathetic and equal.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: And what happened instead? Right, you get away with the
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: free market, and then suddenly the government intervenes, But the
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: government doesn't intervene for the serf. The government intervenes to
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: extract from the surf, and the government intervention has constructed
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: elites that can socialize their losses. They push their losses
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: down on the tax surf. And they keep their gains.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: That's what this is all constructed, and it's all based
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: on the marginalization, the statement that it's bad, that the
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: free market is bad because it's masculine. Okay, let's keep going.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. For some reason today, my brain isn't working.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: I can't seem going correlate into something that makes any
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: fricking sense. That's right, okay, let me let me just
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: make it simple. Masculinity would have fixed that, because the
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: more that I look at it, the more I see
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: the free market concept as a manifestation of how men
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: do in the world. Like you, You put men into
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: a room together and they make like little toy free markets.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: They're called games. Right that that is an emergent property.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: You notice how women don't make games except for JK.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Rowling and Quidditch, which is the stupidest game.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not even sure how works. Yeah, man, I don't
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: know what the rules are.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Men don't make games. Yet men make games. You put
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: them in a room, they'll make a game. Right That
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: is a toy free market. It's something that comes out
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: of the nature of men. And when you marginalize masculinity,
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: you marginalize that disciplining force and get this, you get
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: rid of it, and then you get bad actors who
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: do things like socialize their losses. And then you have
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: women like this who co opt all of the problems
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: and say, well, really, what you need to do is
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: marginalize masculinity more and that'll solve everything. And I'm like
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: where I'm looking, the more we imagine marginalize masculinity, the
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: worse everything fucking gets.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, well, they want to crush competition and they
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: want to flatten everything men and they think men are
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: a problem because they are like, in their mind competitive Anyway,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Throughout the mid aughts, mainstream media continued to underestimate the manisphere.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: The fringes of the right did not make the same mistake.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Gab Gate was the probing ground for some of the
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: central propagandists of the new alt right. Steve Bannon, the
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: political Svengali and co founder of Breitbart News, saw the
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: potential in this cohort of cranks. He went on to
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: run Donald Trump's first presidential campaign, helping to deliver that
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: key demographic to a president who personified everything the new
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: cult of males supremacy most admired as he crowte about
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: sexual violence and held the notionally free world hostage to
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: his every emotional spasm. And yet there was another election
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: after that. I don't know how that worked, but so
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: they remember, like back when twenty sixteen was coming around,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: there was all this like TDS, like when it was
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: like warming up and everything. And I said that it
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the man Donald Trump and all,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: but that rather he was an avatar or symbol of
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: everything that feminists hate, everything that left his hate really,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: which is a you know, straight white male, billionaire guy,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: and so that it was like everything that they hate
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: was like personified in one being. And that's why they
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: hated him. They don't even know, they don't know the guy.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: They just know that they don't like him because he
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: fills all these boxes. And this was happening at a
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: time where all of our media was consumed with like
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: the exclusion and demonization of straight white men in everything.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Guys were you know, being insulted, they were challenged, all
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: this stuff was going on.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: What has the demonization of men changed?
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: No, But I'm saying, like I'm explaining where it came from, Like, well,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: it was always there, But what I'm saying. Is I'm
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: saying that why did this? Where did trump de arrangement
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: syndrome come from? It was it was basically the it's
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: really just manned arrangement syndrome. As somebody in the chat said,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: It's really just that he was just the symbol to
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: point to to get everyone else to range, like that
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: was what you used. And is as I said many times,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: if he died tomorrow, there would just be another straight
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: white dude to replace him as the new base of
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: you know, manned arrangement syndrome. And I'm pointing that out
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: because she's making this connection. Oh, Steve Bannon, you know
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: with teamed up with gamergay and got and like you know,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: pushed Trump in office, and I think Trump was gonna
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: he was running regardless. Like, these are not things that
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: are all connected by some you know, red threads on
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: like a corkboard. This is just the way the things
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: played out. Granted, I would argue that the constant attacks
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: on straight white dudes or just dudes in general is
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: probably what led to a lot of the let's say,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: the motion of the ocean politically, but that's really the
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: fault of feminists for not listening to men for not
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: hearing them out, and they're just like, well, fuck this,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna go and do this
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: over here. But of course, you know, this only makes
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: the feminist more resentful and more angry and more panicked,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: and so they attack and then lash out. So I'm
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: explaining why she's even mentioning this, And of course she
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: has to say that there's a key demographic. I think again,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: if you if I open this up, it's probably something
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: something straight white dudes. Yeah, we need to talk about
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: the online radicalization of young white men. There we go.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: So that's really that. That's it right there, It's that's
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: what And that's of course this is Lori Penny again
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: validating the the the the whole thing. But when she says, well,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: these straight white dudes are a problem, and it's like, yeah,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: so that's the radicalization.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Of straight white men from the woman who wrote this
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: is a story about how modern masculinity is killing the world.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: When you say that masculinity is a radical act, don't
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: be surprised when you suddenly what it looks like men
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: have been radical Like this is the funny thing. She
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: declares masculinity a radical act and then says, why are
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: all these men so radical because you put them in
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: that category, Lorie Penny. Yep, it's not that confusing, my friend.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: Another thing that's play also doesn't help is the fact
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: that Trump beat a woman twice. It's the only president
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: in human history to do it, in US history, to
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: beat two women. And I think that that's only feeding
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: into it because they you know, when a woman runs,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: they're just like, it's time, it's time, this, this has
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: to happen. So anyway, so yeah, she's just trying to
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: and again she suggests that you know, oh, he crote
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: about sexual violence. This is it's all exhausting, none, none
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: of it's real, but she has to. They repeat the
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: lie until it becomes the truth. In hindsight, it is
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: startling that all of this was normalized for so long.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: It was apparently inconceivable that violence against women could constant
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: to a crisis, unless, of course, the violence was blamed
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: on immigrants or on transgender people, at which point women's
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: safety suddenly shot to the top of the political agenda.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how it works, guys. That's nobody cares about
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: women's safety, so they don't use rhetorics around women's safety
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: to demonize groups of people. They don't. They don't create
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: threat narratives around groups of people being a threat to women.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: That it just it just doesn't. These things are motivated
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: by transphobia and racism, not concern for women. Yes, for feminists,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: they are motivated by concern for women, even when they
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: throw women under the bus. Okay, all right.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: When feminists sent others in the infected eye of the
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: storm tried to raise the alarm, we were told we
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: were exaggerating for attention, or that we couldn't take a
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: joke under.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: This is the fun. Okay.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Did you and Zoe Quinn get to speak at the
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: at the United Nations? Yes, yeah, yes, you.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: Were overwhelmingly signal boosted. The what you are complaining about
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: is the fact that media is so democratized now that
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: the individual person has a voice. Laurie Penny, you are
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: speaking from a position of being privileged by whoever's paying
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: these enormous sums to have you speak. You are privileged
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: by that system, and you don't you want to silence
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: anyone who can puncture the narrative that you are constructing.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, under the posturing cartoon frogs and meme speak.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: These were lost young men who deserve patients and understanding.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: And if we didn't offer it, we were heartless, humorless
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: kill joys.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Chatelet, Alison, were you offering patients and understanding?
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Any?
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Are you offering a an ideology that believes just being
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: a man is a radical I act a radical act
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: of hatred towards women? Like, where where do we go from? That?
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: You exist as men? Is violence against women? Where? Where
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: where do we find common ground? Where is the place
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: to start and build from?
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: When?
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: When that is the and and if you deny that
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: you hate women and you want them to suffer? Right like,
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: where where's the common ground? You know there is none?
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: You want men to disappear, You want men to to
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: to just leave or always be becoming. And then she
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: has the audacity to say, apparently that she's not female,
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: like they're using the pronoun game on her, Brian, So
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: I think she identifies as a They?
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she she when when the tides of the gender
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: identity thing turning, she'd decided to come out as non binary.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: But she wasn't always non binary. This is like a
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: recent revelation she had.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, so she's non binary. But okay, Laurie, there is
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: femininity and there's masculinity, and I'm not gonna do the
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: duality thing for you. And maybe there is a spectrum
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: between them, but you've essentially said that masculinity is killing
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: the world, right, Masculinity is radical hatred against reality, Like
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: if you're a mask, if you're masculine, if you're a man,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: and it particularly if you're a masculine man, you are
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: an active, radical hatred against the world, according to Lori Penny. Right. So,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: and you're now saying that your gender fluid, so you
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: do not occupy the space of femininity. Apparently you are
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: moving more towards masculinity, which is a radical active hatred.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: Like you got femininity and a radical active hatred and uh,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: and she's decided she's closer to the radical active hatred.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: How does that work?
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Hmm?
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: I'm confused because it feels like whenever they talk about
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: gender fluidity or gender as a spectrum, they're actually cutting
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: off one of the poles. So you have two, like
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: a in a bisex species, you have male and female.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: In humans, we have masculine and feminine because we got
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: behaviors and they interact with socialization, of course they're still
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: there are still fundamental biological architecture underpinning both right and
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: this whole gender fluid feminist rhetoric doesn't seem to even
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: recognize the legitimacy of one of the of the sexes,
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Like men are a radical active hatred, they are an
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: illegitimate category of being. You've cut off half your freaking spectrum. Well,
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: actually you cut off all your spectrum and you've left
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: a single pole. And then you're saying that this is fluidity. No,
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: it's rigidity. It's the ultimate rigidity. It's like there is
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: only one there can only be one gender. And yes,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: like a feminine, all right.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: What if her non binary or gender fluid? What if
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: her fluidity instead of it being somewhere risking between them
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: the masculine and the feminine, it's in the feminine and
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: also like the farthest reaches of the feminine, like maybe
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: that because like femininity to her is basically being a victim.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: So if you don't want to have any masculinity, nothing
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: on that end of the spectrum, you have to go
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: like to the to the event horizon of the feminine
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: and then call that the fluid is that a thing
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: that we can do. Can we go outside like beyond feminine,
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: like beyond that? Do you know what I'm saying? Is
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: that possible? It is?
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Huh fine, the infrafeminine.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, we are beyond feminine, beyond the infrafeminism. Yeah yeah,
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: it's like it's exactly. It's like being on the ultraviolent
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: spectrum of femininity or the infrared spectrum. So it's the
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: yes that that's what I'm thinking, Like what if it's not.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: It's not like between feminine and masculine, but it's between
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: feminine and like infrafeminine, right, transcending feminine the So just
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: that way, you're always in the victimhood part of the
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: spectrum because honestly, when Lori Penny deals with any adversity,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: she becomes a woman. So the whole gender fluid thing
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: is a lie anyhow, because she never has any agency.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: She's always a victim of something. And when we get
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: into like some of the books that she or the
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: screenplays and TV shows that she's written for, we can
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: probably see a theme in there as well. But anyway,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: let's all right, But so Pey the Frog, Okay, Idental
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: identical arguments were used to dismiss the rise of MAGA
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: until it was far too late. The playbook testsed out
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: on feminists and on black, queer and female creators in
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: the mid aughts was replicated in far right movements across
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: the global North, as was the response of muted both
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: scientism then as now, politicians, pundits and industry leaders officially
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: disapproved of the worst excesses of the manosphere, but declined
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: to take an explicit stand, terrified that any display of
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: moral integrity would alienate their base. I don't want to.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Take away men's ability to access the Internet or on it.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, they.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: Don't want to silence like the only thing that would
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: make Lori Penny happy. And ironically we're seeing this played
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: out in British like television thought experiments is a curfew
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: and men not being allowed to act says the internet
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: or speak on it. Maybe that's what this whole digital
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: idea in the UK is about. It'll be miners and
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: men excluded, and then the Internet will turn into a
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: horrendous blood bath of women destroying each other yep, and
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: men will still be blamed.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Sheesus basically going through a whole timeline of everything that happened,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: but I can read through it quickly, I guess. So.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: The twenty tens turned to the twenty twenties, and the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: manuspair continued to expand, funneling its recruits towards ever more extreme,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: explicitly racist ideas. It became fashionable to cast social justice
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: warriors as the pressing danger to human freedom. Politicians and
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: public figures seemed far more concerned about the Me Too movement,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: which seemed proof positive that feminists had gone too far
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: and deserved, perhaps to be punished for it. After the
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: third or fourth time a documentary crew came to interview
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: me about all the death threats, I realized that they
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: didn't want to help. They wanted to watch. Oh you're
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: here to talk about all the death and rape threats
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: I've gotten? But I see, you just want to be
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: voyeurs into my mind, into my history. It's so lascivious.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: I don't remember that. Did she really get interviewed for
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: a documentary? Like? I don't see a link?
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: So maybe does she actually get the money that she
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: asks for?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: I guess, dude, Yes, she gets paid. She she works
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: in show business, she writes for TV shows. She makes money,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm sure she's pretty well off, but okay, lots
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: of people did. After gamer Gate, bigotry became a growth
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: industry for enterprising young lads unburdened by conscience. As a journalist,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: I interviewed many young far right men who admitted that
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: they that what they really wanted was to be influencers
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: and filmmakers for clicks and views. They they they courted
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: controversy and flirted with the far right, but it didn't
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: take long for the relationship to get serious. As Kurt
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: Vonnegut writes in his anti fascist masterpiece Mother Night, we
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: are what we pretend to be, so we must be
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: careful what we pretend to be. Oh wow, she she
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: knows she has a Kurt Vonnegut quote in here. Is
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: this like a like a like a resume? Is she
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: like trying to get a job? Possibly Today nobody is
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: pretending that this is a joke anymore. Trump and his
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: deranged dotage is openly courting the manisphere, and the young
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: men of jen Z are veering towards the far right end.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Mass uh, let me see what she means by that.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: I think she means like he went on podcasts. Oh fuck, BBC. Yeah,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: so she went on like Trump went on THEO Vonn's show,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: and like some other people Aiden Ross, this was when
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: he was like running for office, so it's kind of
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: old news. He went on Joe Rogan. So he went
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: on podcasts instead of like doing press things because he
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: knew the press was gonna lie about him and all that.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: So he figured out, just talk to the people that
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: people watch, and podcasts like Joe Rogan are very popular
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: with men. So that's why she's saying that although like
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: anybody can listen to Joe Rogan if they want to.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think Lindsay listens to him more than
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: I do, so, but to Penny, it's irrelevant. You know.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: The point is he used the manisphere, or or the
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: manisphere used him, who knows. So all right, there's a
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: clear line from the social vandalism of Gamergate to the
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: megagrifting male supremacists. I can't even say that and with
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: a straight face, male supremacy. What does that look like?
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Do they wear like costumes like the KKK, but they're
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: like big penises? Is that what it is? Like big
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: penis costumes with like a little face hole in the middle.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Do they have meetings inside of like caves that are
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: like symbolic of women's vaginas, like that.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: They are are symbolically oppressing by their presence.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: They have like you know, like they dress up like
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: firm and yeah, they have like a censor, but it's
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: like a pair of testicles, you know, and they're like
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: going through with There's like an altar, you know, and
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: it's like a waterbed or something in the shape of
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: a heart, and there's like on the wall there's icons
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: of like you know, Woody Allen and Harvey Weinstein and
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: like of James Bond. You know, Like I don't know,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: like what what what does that even male supremacist? What
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: does it even look like?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Well, it's got to exist. The feminists talk about it
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: so much and they.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Have Yeah, I think they fantasize about that. But Okay,
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: there's a clear line from social vandals, from the social
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: vandalism of gamer gaate to the mega grifting male supremacists
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: scamming their followers with the promise of a reality where
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: women and girls are not player characters to be defeated, exploited,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: and traded for tokens in a brutal marketplace of human value.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: What you gotta grind to get your level up. You
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: got to grind women. Speaking of male supremacist literally in
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: I think it was the ad L or the SPLC.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was the SPLC that Paul Elaman, a voice
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: for men, were on there for male supremacy. So it's
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: like a real category that exists, so obviously like deserves right.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: You know what male supremacy is. It's just recognizing that
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: men do anything better than women.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, that's it.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: You cannot recognize any positive aspect of being a man
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: or masculinity. I'm not, and honestly they don't even recognize
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: it in women, like masculine women are basically pick mes.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: Tomboys are patriarchal stooges and double agents. Yep, just something sinister. Okay,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: I have actually I've actually got her novella and I'm
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: running it. I'm running it through my cognitive modality test.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: So let's let's find out where this gender fluid they
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: where they actually lie on the spectrum of gender, which
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: really isn't a spectrum according to my cognitive modality test.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: It is indeed two polls. Okay, to explain it, I'll
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: explain it after you're done, all right.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Let me finish the article. So ye, many young men
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: have lived their entire lives in the shadow of this
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: weaponized misogyny, and so have young women, and that sinister
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: ideology is still gnawing at the heart of power. A
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: few weeks ago, in a break from encouraging his deranged
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: president to take over Greenland, White House advisor Stephen Miller
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: found time to post a tweet on ex that appears
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: to be mocking the New Start series for being too diverse. Yeah,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: not because a shitty show, but because it's diverse. Elon
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Musk emerged from his FuG of racial conspiracy theories and
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: transphobia to agree this is embarrassing, and not just because
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: any half literate nerd knows that Star Trek has been
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: woke since nineteen sixty six, Because even after turning the
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: world into their personal thunderdome, the representatives of aggrieved white
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: male power are still unsatisfied, still demanding we cater their
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: every petty whim. They will continue to do so until
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: the rest of us at last refuse to tolerate their nonsense. Okay,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: so that was the article, Thanks Lori Penny.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: Okay, so I analyzed her novella, and she is a
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: relational She has relational modality, which is solidly female. No shit, Penny, sorry, Penny,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: you right like a woman because you think like a woman.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: The default processing channel is relational, topographical throughout who is
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: positioned where in the social web, what each person's actions
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: signal about their hidden intentions and loyalties, what the connections
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: between characters mean. Physical and operative content consistently serves as
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: a medium for arriving at social, relational social relational readings. Sorry,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: what's really funny? Because you can say whatever you like
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: about who you think you are, but the test don't lie. Okay,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: let's okay.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: Can I show you some of the shows that she's
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: been involved with? Okay, so I have four shows. This
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: is just to give you an idea of the kind
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: of you guys know, you just defended Star Trek Starfleet Academy.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, of course she's a social reader, she can't
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: she The thing with social readers is they don't understand
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: operative content, and Star Trek gives the simulation like it.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: Star Trek's technology is not real, but it gives a
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: feeling of being real and that the world in particular
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: has procedures that make sense in the context of its values,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: so it feels like a real world, like it's plausible.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: Social are relational thinkers or relational modality thinkers do not
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: understand that, like I'm this is this is the huge
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: chasm that I'm dealing with.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: Women have a struggle with the things that men just
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: take for granted, like analyzing a system according to its inputs,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: according to how it translates those inputs into its outputs.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: Women look at like things like that, and you might
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: as well be talking in Latin to them. It's like,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't get it. I have no interest
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: in this. They turn everything into where they are positioned
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: relative to everyone else in the social web, so operative
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: content is not something that they understand or really can replicate.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: That's why Star Trek Starfeete Academy is the way it
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: is and doesn't even feel like Star Wars or Star
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: Wars Star Trek.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: Well the Acolyte was also that same kind of storytelling then, right, yeah, yeah,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: star Wars. Yeah. The power of.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: Many the women who rise up in the relational web,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: which is what they're they've constructed, They've constructed Lori Penny
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: is a node in a relational web that's parasitizing on
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: the operational layer that actually props it up. And the
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: greatest irony of all this is that the relational web
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: is absolutely used lists and non functional if it isn't
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: attached to an operative layer that it can't understand. And
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: what I mean by the operative layer is the layer
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: that goes into reality and does stuff, build stuff, make stuff,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: provides stuff. You know, that is the operative layer in
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: a relational web. If you have no access to the
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: things that the operational layer makes, then your relational web
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: let web is crap and it will disappear. And they
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: don't but they don't can't acknowledge that because they cannot
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: see it. It's the water level test on the level
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: of human systems, right, they just can't see it, you know.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: They don't attend to it because it just isn't in
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: their thinking. And the real problem is that the women
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: who succeed in the relational web are the worst at everything,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: the worst. They are the worst writers, they are the
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: worst artists or only their mediocre at best. Right, they
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: are the worst at everything they do. Because a relational
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: thinker cannot take criticism and improve criticism is only seen
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: in terms of their destruction or her destruction of her
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: position in the relational web. So if you criticize someone
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: who thinks like this, you know, if you criticize an
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: operate like a man or somebody who's in the operational modality,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: they can say, okay, I can improve. Right, you criticize
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: a woman in this modality, you're basically threatening her her
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: existence in the web, which means you are threatening her
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: on an existential level. There is there's no space for
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: improvement there. The only thing they can do is attack.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: You see all this behavior, and that's what they do. Like,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: this is what I've been dealing with for twenty five years,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: and I never could explain it clearly. I would go
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: to a woman or a man who and there are
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of men who are atavistic, like they're just
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: throwbacks and they get stuck in these relational webs too.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: And you go to one of these people and you say, well,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: your argument is flawed, and then they attack everything they
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: can about you as a person. Rather than just being like, oh,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: you're right, and it's not even like it's not even
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: an arguable your argument is flawed, they'll be asserting something
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: like A is not a and I'm like, well that
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: A can't be am not a And then they'll be like,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: you misogynists, pick me handmaiden, you should go die in
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: a fire. I hope you'll get raped. Like it's like what?
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: And it's because by correcting them, even on a trivial level,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: you are threatening their position in the relational web. And
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: when you threaten that, for somebody who thinks in that way,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: you're threatening their very existence. Yeah, okay, but Lori Penny's
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: definitely in that modality. So let's see. Let's see what
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: she knows.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense. Okay. So then with that said, first,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask you guys in the chat, when Lori
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: Penny says we need a solution, basically, she's saying we
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: need a political solution to the man of sphere problem,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: what do you guys think she means by that? And
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: just put a comment on the video or you know,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: say something in the live chat. Now we're gonna get
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: into four projects that she was involved with. There are
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: four TV shows, and I want to know what I'm
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: going to tell you about each one. I'll just give
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: you the synopsis. You guys, say in the chat whether
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: this is something you'd watch or not. Okay, So first,
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: and they're gonna be escalating in terms of cringe. So
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with the least cringey one, at least
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, and we'll go up from there. So
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: first on the list is The Haunting of Blind Manner
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be looking at the IMDb pages for these.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: And this came out in twenty twenty. It's a TV
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: mini series on Netflix and the synopsis is, after an
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: oh pair's tragic death, Henry hires a young American nanny
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: to care for his orphaned niece and nephew, who reside
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: at Blind Manor with the chef Owen, groundskeeper Jamie and
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: housekeeper Missus Gross. Okay, it's a supernatural horror, psychological horror series.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: So and it features kids. Alse So what do you
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: think about that? What do you think? Does that look
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: like something you'd want to watch? No? What seems pretty straightforward? Why?
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it just looks really where's the haunting?
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: Like, Okay, After nos tragic death, Henry hires a young
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: American nanny to care for his orphan niece and nephew
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: who reside at blind man Or with with Chef Owen,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: groundskeeper Jamie, and housekeeper Missus Gross. I'm guessing it's going
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: to be a man that did it. So where's the haunting?
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: Where are the supernatural elements?
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: Don't know. I will say that this is like the
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: most interesting if I had the gun to my head,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: this would be the one that I'd be the most
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: likely to say, Okay, I'll watch that. But I don't
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: expect it to be very exciting or simulations kind.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: It looks it looks there's no conflict.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, like this goes back to what you were
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: just talking about though, Like if this is something that
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: she's involved with writing, it's probably gonna be more about
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: a relational web than anything. It's gonna be more along
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: the lines of like a Starflee Star Academy in terms
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: of like how it plays out. Right, That's why there's
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: all these characters. It's like there's like the children, and
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: then there's like the nanny, and there's the nephew. Well
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, there's a nanny, and there's the children, and
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: there's the chef and the groundskeeper and the housekeeper. So
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: you have like these different characters, and I think it's
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: gonna be about their relationships to each other, right, oh interesting.
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably, And it's not gonna be interesting, Like the
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: thing is that it's gonna it looks like it's gonna
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: be atmosphere with no plot. Now I don't mind like
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: social content or relational content. I mean, I do write romance, so.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: But oh sure, but I don't.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: Like things without a plot, like I'm I'm and I
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: sense that this is just atmosphere and relational content. And
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: maybe a man did something awful, Okay, so yeah.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: Not that not that offensive, I don't think. Probably just
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: kind of blah. What do you guys think, just based
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: on what we know?
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: Apparently? Okay, So here are in from her her book
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: Everything Belongs to the Future. Here's a summary of the
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: principal characters. Alex male corporate spy embedded in the activist group,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: Nina female idealist activist, Daisy female scientist defector, Parker male
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: corporate handler, Margo female practical authority, and Fidget trans male artists.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: And apparently this like most women, she can't write men's
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: interiority like that there is there so far. The closest
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: women might be Legwyn left hand of darkness Emily Bronte
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: in some sections. But women can't write men. I know
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: people talk about how women men can't write women. Women
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: can't write men. They're almost incapable of understanding how men do.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: And according to my analysis, and here here's the problem.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: So her male character, Alex, the corporate spy. Of course, right,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: corporation is the evil one. I mean it's not, it's
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: not completely wrong. I mean, if the corporation is too
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: big to fail, then it's probably an evil entity. But
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: just corporations themselves, just businesses themselves, are not evil. Alex
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: is the main character with the most interior axis. His
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: rendering architecture is narrated emotion throughout. Alex didn't feel like
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: a cut the time a spike of anger blah blah blah.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: He spent a significant amount of time feeling horrible about
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: the whole thing. Wow, this is really dull. Pros. These
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: are all direct narration of emotional states, not displacement through
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: behavioral channels. No self author authorizing code. So women don't
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: get that. Most men have a code that they follow right,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: that they that they think is important, and they judge
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: their actions by And the men who tend to be
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: very successful, like the male characters that are very successful
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: with male authors or male male readers tend to be
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: men who have their own personal code that they have
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: to uphold at cost. So superman, uh, the guy girlt
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: from whitcher. Uh. Actually you could probably that that is
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: such an I think you recognize the archetype. Archetype, right, Brian.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: I think so it's a it's a man who upholds
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: a personal code at cost to himself. Mm hmmm, sacrifices
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: for a personal code, the archetype.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: The er example would of course be Jesus Christ.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: Uh. And they like women don't seem to be able
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: to comprehend this when they write men.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or like a samurai or some kind of night
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: yeah nightly character yeah yeah, or.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: A knight would be an example, or pretty much well
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of different male yeah.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: Wise king, Yeah, a wise.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: King, a philosopher, internal code like this is a this
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: is huge And in most of the really really big
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: intellectual properties written intellectual properties in the past, they usually
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: followed a male hero, like a competent man with a
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: code who he upheld at a cost, and that cost
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: was really a big part of what the stakes of
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: the story were so her male character has no self
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: authorizing code. His operating principle is transactional, feminine, fifty years
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: of life in exchange for professional betrayal. When the text
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: gets closest to a code, Alex was a survivor. It's
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: survival instinct, not a framework that would override institutional authority
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: at personal cost. He doesn't to fact when given an opportunity,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: he negotiates for better terms institutional capture. So the other
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: thing that's really big with a lot of heroes that
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: men like or are legible to men, is they oppose
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: in just institutions, which is probably why women make mouth
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: noises about how patriarchy is in just because it's like
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: the big trigger point for men. Oh my god, I
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: gotta fight the injustice. So this is another thing that
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: she fails on. She offers one sentence of operative content,
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: and remember men live in operative in modality. This is
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: like you're writing a man. You're not gonna have one
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: sentence of operative content, Lori Penny. You're gonna have to
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: be able to sustain that, which you can't because you're
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: a woman and you think like a woman, which is fine,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: there's no problem with thinking like a woman. But you're
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: gonna have to work to be able to properly present
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: a male character. And this is another reason why I
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: don't want to look at any of watch any of
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: the products projects. I actually like watching male characters that
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: act like men. Yeah, I know that sounds strange, but anyway, continue.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: Let me Yeah, let's get to the next one. So
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: that was the Haunting of Blind Manner Like, like I said,
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: probably the least defensive. I mean, it's it's literally based
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: created by the same people who created Haunting of Hill House.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: So probably because it's an adaptation of something that's pre existing,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: it's not as bad. Then we have my Lady Jane.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: Let's take a step up the cringe ladder. This is
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: a period piece. I don't know what it is with
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: these chicks and period movies. Probably the costumes. Lady Jane
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: Gray and her husband Guildford lived during the reign of Edwards,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: son of Henry the eighth. He is unexpectedly finds herself
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: crowned queen overnight and becomes the target of criminals who
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: want her throne and her head. So a woman, a
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: plane woman finds herself becoming queen suddenly somehow and there
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: everybody wants her apparently, So what do you think about that?
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: I like this, Do you guys remember that nineties Romeo
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: and Juliette movie that came out that had this kind
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: of like aesthetic going on, so says something you guys
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: would watch Lady.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: Jane Gray and her husband Gilford lived during the reign
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: of Guildford. Was like an asshole the historical Guildford. I'm
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: pretty sure it's unexpectedly finds herself crowned queen overnight and
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: becomes the target of criminals who want to throw in
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: her head. Well, I doubt the religious tension between Queen
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth and Jane. Actually was it between Jane and Elizabeth?
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Like this entire period was about clashing ethical systems and
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: even though they were sort of invested in two women.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: Why would you talk about this like this, this kind
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: of crime drama. Why would it be criminals? By the way,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: it's going to be people who are on the other
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: side of her politics. That's not criminals. Well maybe it is,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: according to Lori Penny, But but why would you focus
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: on this? Why wouldn't you focus on the conflict between
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: the religious systems, because that's really where where things matter
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: to people other than the women, right, I don't know,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: it looks like it's just going to be some ridiculous
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: wrong calm and it's.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: Gonna Yeah, I was gonna say, it looks like it's
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: just going to be about being a princess. Yeah, like
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: it's a princess story. So what do would you guys?
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: Watch this? Let me know in the comments. Let's move
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: on to the next one where you get a little
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: bit weirder, all right. The Never's an HBO original. A
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: gang of Victorian women find themselves with unusual abilities, relentless enemies,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: and a mission that might change the world.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: Absolutely not. Creator JOSSH. Whedon.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: Ye, Joss Whedon. She worked with Joss wheedon on this yes.
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: Oh premise alternate history Tutor England, where some humans can
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: shape shift into animals. So it's Tutor England with werewolves. Apparently.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, no, no, her husband turns into a horse.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: Not going there. Hey, you guys can watch this now.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: Apparently it's it's it should be available. Mm hmm. Well
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: Lorie Penny was involved with writing it. I'm just saying.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: The tone is anachronistic comedy romance in the vein of
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: the great or Bridgerton, foul mouthed monarchs, enemies to lovers,
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: be between Jane and Guildford. Political intrigue. Shape shifting is
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: a stand in for religious class persecution. Critics liked it
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: because they're fucking morons. Audiences were smaller than Amazon wanted.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: It was canceled after one season. Beside despite a Cliffhanniger ending,
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: uh the relevant Okay, the show's own marketing frames itself
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: explicitly is correcting history. So the damsel saves herself pretty
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: sure she got her head chopped off or she was
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: hung in history? Who uh a Lady Jane.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: Oh you're talking about you're going back to the other one.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: No, this is history.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: Is Lady Jane involved with this period as well?
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: No, I've gone back to the other Oh yeah, you're right,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: I've gone back to the other one.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: Sorry, Yeah, I thought we were talking about the Victorian Women,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: the Gang of Victorian Women, diverse, diverse Victorian women with superpowers.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: Do you do you think that it's any coincidence that
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: they will they set these shows in like a time
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: period that is old enough that they can like use
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: it as like a way of of highlighting their their
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: imagined ideas of like how backwards and sexist it was
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: and racist. It was like I think of, like what
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: the the way that that feminist reference shows like mad
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: Men right or anything old and they basically use it
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: to say, look at how awful things were for women then,
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: but also they're just as bad or worse today, And
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: I think that stuff like this. Maybe I'm just really cynical.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: Because I was watching Doctor Who, like a long time ago,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: I haven't watched it in years, and I couldn't help
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: but notice before before the the female doctor was cast,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: like this is going back to like the Matt Smith
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: and like you know what's his name? Days before that,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: I saw a lot of like little things that were
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: happening on the show, and I was like, what the fuck,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: Like I knew that it was just wrong, and especially
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: when they go to Victorian England and then they would
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: expose sexism like you know, it's just it was just crange.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: I was like, this is crange, man, And I feel
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: like these shows exist at least in part to do that,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: to be like, look at how sexist it is. I mean,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: it's no wonder that Anita Sarkesing worked on Dishonored Too,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: which is a video game that takes place in a
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, old timey England. I'm not
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: sure what the period is. I don't understand the lore
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: of that world, but it has that esthetic, you know.
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: So okay, so basically just going back to going back
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: to the one before sorry this. Yeah, she was beheaded
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: at like sixteen or seventeen, and they're doing a there.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: It's like a young adult move where they're like giving
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 2: the win back to the woman. It's like and yet
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: there were women at that time who managed to make
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: themselves political forces who would have been much more interesting story. Okay,
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: so yeah, I'm gonna find out about the Never alright.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: So anyway, this is the Nevers. So would you guys
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: watch this or never? How about never? Somebody said, all right,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: let's get to the cringiest one, at least in my opinion,
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: and let me know what you guys think about my ranking,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: Like does this match? Do you think that this is
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: getting more cringey over time? All right? So the last
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: one that she's got a credit for, and maybe she
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: hasn't had a bit at work since then, and maybe
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: that's why she wrote this article for the Guardian because
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: I think this might be her newest thing. Is Carnival Row? Now,
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: Carnival Row is about a human detective and a fairy
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: that rekindled a dangerous affair in a Victorian fantasy world
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: where the city's uneasy piece collapses when a string of
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: murders reveals an unimaginable monster. A detective and a fairy
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: team up to solve a mystery. No, just okay, I
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: got a super chat from Senior sticks for two and
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: he says Meg Marco lived that story. Spoilers didn't work.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: So anyway, Allison, would you watch the show about a
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: detective and a fairy that rekindled a dangerous affair in
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: a Victorian fantasy world where the city's uneasy piece collapses
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: when a string of murders reveals an unimaginable monster. Probably
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: like the detective. I don't know the dude.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: No no, no, oh, this is straight no for me.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: I've already I got like a sixth sense now about
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: when something is going to be total crap and uh
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: it just what happens is you can sort of tell
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: that it's atmospheric rather than has anything. Okay, where's the
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: conflict and the other thing is when you're writing a summary,
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: what's are you alluding to any kind of flaw? So
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: we have like a nice character arc we can watch. No, right,
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: look at look at the summary of Miami Vice.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: Do you want me to like actually look it up?
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's look at the summary because this is all
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: just atmospheric, like a human detective and a fairy kindle
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: of rekindle, a dangerous affair in Victorian fantasy.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: It's all tropes, right, was a manly ass show. I
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: don't care why?
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm Sam follows undercover detective Sonny Crockett and Ricardo
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: Tubs as they infiltrate and combat the drug trade and
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: other criminal elements in South Florida. Let's fucking go write.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: Soundtrack to what's the conflict?
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: Do the drug cartels? You're talking about?
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: You know the you know the conflict. Okay, let's go
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: back through your your Lori Penny pieces or she I
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: don't even think she headlined on any of this. What
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: the hell was she doing?
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: No, she's more of like, uh involved, but it was
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: like on her CV.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: So yeah involved, she had kneass.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so she was involved? All right? So let yeah,
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: haunting a bait blind manner. There we go.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, what's the what's the conflict?
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: Uh? Henry hires a young American nanny to take care
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: of his orphan niece and nephew, who resided black manner
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: with the she the cheff Owen. Yeah, it's just a
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: bunch of people do things together again.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: Not even they're not even doing anything. They're just sort
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: of in the same spot.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just in this. Yes, and it's scoopy.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: It's like it's this is just atmosphere. Go to the
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: next one.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: My Lady Jane. Lady Jane Gray and her husband Guildford
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: lived during the reign of Edward, son of Henry the Eighth.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: She unexpectedly finds herself crowned queen overnight and becomes the
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: target of criminals who want her throne and her head.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: This might have conflict, right, except she is the victim,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: so she's reactive. The difference between that and Miami Vice
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: is these are going these guys. These are guys going
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: out and fighting something right. They are actually being proactive
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: and they are trying to achieve something based on their
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: principles that is extremely difficult, which is reducing the drug
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: cartels influence in Miami. So this is this is not again,
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: this is just situational. She's in this situational, she's react situation,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: she's reacting to it. Bland.
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, next one, yep, this is the Never is a
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: gang of Victorian women find themselves with unusual abilities, relentless
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: enemies at a mission that might change the world.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: Situational. Where's the conflict? What are they fighting? They have
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: relentless enemies. Well, that's not something that they're fighting, like,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: it's not specifically something they're fighting. It's just a situation
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: they're in. They're totally reaction like they're they're just reacting
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: to things, as far as I can tell from this summary. Okay,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: next one, uh.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: Next one is Carnival Row. It's the last one. Really
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: a human detective at a fairy We kindle a dangerous
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: affair in a Victorian fantasy world where the city's uneasy
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: piece collapses when a string of murders reveals an unimaginable monster.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: Hmm, it's sort of close, but it's still very vague.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: And eh, it's it's inheriting, like a bit of a
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: detective things. I'm imagining Del Toro probably helped helped this
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: a bit. So this is this is the closest to
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: something that actually has a conflict, but still the conflict
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: is generic. What is this is another like a uh
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: what is it? The original serial Killer? I wish my
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: brain was capable of finding words for thing brain.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: Then Miami bias. Can I show off another show that
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: came out around the same time that was more aimed
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: at men. So there's a show. Well, my mom watched it. Actually,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: she was like a religious viewer of this. It was
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: called Hunter and it aired from nineteen eighty four to
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one, and it's very straightforward. Rick Hunter is
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: a renegade cop who bends the rules and takes justice
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: into his own hands. Partner with the equally stunning and
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: rebellious Sergeant McCall, he sets out to crack down on
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: LA's slimiest criminals. It's awesome. I'm sorry, this is the
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: kind of we need this TV back. Can we have this?
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: I want this. I want a balding guy with a
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: gun and a fucking hair trigger who will kill the
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: criminals like you and then deal with the consequences later.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: This is yeah, Uh, it's great. Anyway, Eighties TV was
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: it was built different, That's all I say. But Bill
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: Collins was not Miami Vice Ones. He was like a
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: drug lord or something. It was like a big deal too.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: Young people are actually going back to this, I believe.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: What do you mean, like the young generations are actually
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: watching older, older stuff. Yeah, like I think, uh, I
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: think there was what was it? Friends? Actually it's actually
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: gain it. It has more of viewership than a lot
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: of these new things, right it's.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: In terms of sitcoms, like I think Friends and Seinfeld
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: are like really popular with young people right now.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm pretty sure like a lot of these
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: older shows are as well, but I can't And if
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: you really want good shows like Colombo's fun mm hmm,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of fun and uh, let's see what else.
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: X Files?
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're remaking that. You know it's going to
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: be awful. Yeah, they're remaking the X Files. It's all ogre.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: It's all ogre. Well, you know, the.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: Senior stick sent us two dollars and says the conflict
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: is always themselves Alison or men? What is always themselves
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: Alison or men?
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the conflict. What he's saying is that the
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: conflict is always the woman didn't realize that she was
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: everything she needed to be, And how she overcomes it
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: is by realizing that she's everything that she needed to
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: be all the time, and the problem was that some
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: man told her that she wasn't or that she needed
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: to improve. You see how that that ties right back
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: into how relational web thinkers can't take criticism or accountability right.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: So they're they're great thing is being seen, which I
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: still don't completely understand, but but you know, and if
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: you criticize them, they're not being seen because what was
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: important was their intentions, not their effect on you, but
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: their intentions. It's it's but anyway, the big the big
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: plot is the woman realizes she was enough all along,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: and uh yeah, she never had to change. And and
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: some of the some of the places change, Some of
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: the places where they've deployed this validation narrative are insane.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: Like a woman who was an alcoholic who severe like
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: abused her her her roommate, Well, she discovered that she
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: was actually being gas lit by her ex, and she
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: didn't need to change. All of her guilt was the
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: result of her gas lighting by her ex, and she
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: never needed to feel guilty about anything the roommate that
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: she abused by being drunk all the time. Well, we
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: don't talk about that. She's not she's not vulnerable to
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: nobody because she she never had to be. And are
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: or revenge against a man.
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 1: These are the two plots.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: These are the two plots. And like, the problem is
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: that this is this isn't just female writers. This is
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: female writers who are writing for a relational web comprised
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: the female editors, females acquisition staff, and female uh actually
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: not even female readers, because readers are female readers, like
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: women are no longer reading anymore. Their numbers are going down.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: So this is this is this is writing for a
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: subset of a subset of a subset of women. And
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: you're right, Brian, it's basically the infraprank infrapink, Yes for
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: a pink. This is the writing for the ultra pink,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: like the the femtas.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: It's like something outside of the feminine, like beyond feminine.
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but so feminine is beyond the feminine? Fine, these
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: women are so feminine that the very act that they
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: have to oppose gravity is a patriarchal oppression. The fact
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: that they can't just live is a puddle on the
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: floor being constantly tended to by an army of people
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: who will make sure they're seen, the puddle is seen.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: You know that that that is a patriarchal oppression. They
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: deny any external expectation. Standing up is an external expectation.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: Being able to defecate in the point in a toilet
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: is external expectation. Right, being able to clean yourself external expectation,
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: anything that there should be none. I don't know what
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: happens when you remove all of that from a human being,
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: but I imagine, I don't imagine it's very squishy. Okay,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: is this it?
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: I think that's it. I think we're good. So, yeah,
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: that was Lori Penny. These are the things that she's
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: worked on. And the article she wrote, I thought it
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: was it was fun going down memory lane a little
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: bit to see get like schooled by David Starkey, and
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: then read her cringey article where she's basically I think
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: she's basically saying, I'm I'm still important to give me work.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: She felt out of writing basically even in this extremely.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: Oh she does she does video game consultation too, But guys,
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys know, but I might
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: want to see if she's involved with any projects coming out.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, I'm sure she's really improving those video games.
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: I'm sure she is.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, of course, some really tight writing like that, like
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: if if there was ever a medium that was purely operational,
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: it's video games, and social readers are getting in there
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: and they're they just they it's like oil and water,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: and they blame the community when the fact is that
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: you are a you think in a relational modality which
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: is completely incompatible with an operational medium. You are functionally
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: incapable of improving games in any capacity. Lori Penny and
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: all of the other women like her, all right.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay, well yeah, all right.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: So if you have anything you'd like to send us
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: as a comment, apologies again for the late start. I
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: my thing. I'm having a really microphone. Yeah, it was
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: a problem with microphone and it resolved itself somehow anyway,
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: So please go to feedbadger dot com slash just the
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: tip to send us to comment and a tip with
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: that comment, and feed the Badger dot com slash support
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: if you want to support the show. Very much appreciated.
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: If you do, I guess I should check to see
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 2: if anybody did that before we go, and uh, badginination
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: don online if you want to join the community. There
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: have been a few of you who have joined. So nice. Yeah,
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: so welcome. Hopefully it's edifying. You get to wait there
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: is a new customer.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: Oh sweet.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the Great Indoors sent us two hundred and
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: fifty dollars. Thank you, great, Thank.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: You, Great Indoors. Really appreciate it. Exciting.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: Not sure what it's for, but thank you Great Indoors.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: And uh, maybe he'll send me a message. I'll thank
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: him any text messages.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: So, so, yeah, which of those shows are you guys
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: gonna watch me? I'm going to start watching Hunter.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: Or Miami Vice that's what I'm wanting or Miami Vice.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: Both they're good. Yeah, or somebody mentioned Sledgehammer, which was
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: like a parody show making fun of Clint Eastwood. Great also,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: so there's lots of good old stuff.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, So yeah, those are the things you
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: can do. Feed the Badger dot com slash just the
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: tip if you want to send us a message, Feed
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: the Badger dot com slash support if you want to
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: support the show. Again, thank you to the Great Indoors.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: For two hundred and fifty and Badger Nation downline if
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: you want to join us. And I regularly put out
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: like little essays on the stuff that I'm talking about,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: including what I just derailed the show into at the beginning.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: And then somebody called me the female Alex Jones, which
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: I am going to put in my little treasure chest
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: of compliments because he gets a lot of attention. I
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: could only wish to get that much attention that oh
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: we got a super problem with.
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I see that. I got another super chat ten
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: dollars from c Syria Flora. Thank you, and he says
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: I would rather get another final tap than watch those shows. Yeah,
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: all right, thanks appreciate that.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I'm kind of retarded. I feel you, Alex.
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: Oh man, it is so true. Okay, Oh yeah, Brian,
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 2: that's uh, I'm done.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, uh, you know it's okay. If you
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: guys like this video, please hit like subscribe if you're
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: not already subscribed, hit the bellf notifications, leave us a comment,
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: let us know what you guys think about what we
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: talked about on the show today, and share the video
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: because sharing is caring, Sharing's caring. God I'm turning into Alison.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for coming on this episode
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: of Maintaining Frame, and we will talk to you guys
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: in the next one.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 5: Men's right activists are machines, dude, Okay, they are literal machines.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 5: They are talking point machines. They are impossible to deal with,
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 5: especially if you have like especially if you have like
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 5: a couple of dudes who have good memory. On top
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 5: of that, too, holy shit, you're fucked.