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Episode 4 - Aurelia Dávila Pratt · Preacher Handshake

0:00
Welcome back to Preacher Handshake. I'm Hannah.
0:02
And I'm Evan, and we're your hosts. This episode,
0:05
we talk with Rev. Aurelia Davila -Pratt, and
0:07
we look at a sermon she preached at Peace of
0:09
Christ Church on January 26, 2025. The sermon
0:13
is called Wasted Time, and it was based on 1
0:15
Corinthians 12. Reverend Aurelia Davila Pratt
0:18
is the lead pastor of Peace of Christ Church,
0:21
a radically loving community in Round Rock, Texas.
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Aurelia was named by Sojourners as one of the
0:27
10 Christian women shaping the church in 2022.
0:30
She is the author of A Brown Girl's Epiphany,
0:33
Reclaim Your Intuition and Step Into Your Power,
0:36
and her writing has been featured in multiple
0:38
publications. If you'd like to keep up with Aurelia
0:41
and the work she's doing, check out the links
0:42
to her Instagram and website in our show notes.
0:46
So Evan, why were you excited to have Aurelia
0:49
on the pod? What was some of your favorite parts
0:51
of our conversation with her? Yeah, I was really
0:54
excited to get to talk to Aurelia. I heard about
0:57
her and heard about the work that she was doing.
1:00
We went to the same seminary, but just kind of
1:01
missed each other. But I'd gotten to know...
1:03
a lot of people who I really loved and respected
1:06
who were often mentioning how much I loved and
1:07
respected her. So I started following her work
1:09
and hearing her preaching. So I was excited that
1:11
we could talk to her about her craft and how
1:13
she approaches preaching. And I loved in the
1:15
conversation really how her personality, which
1:18
comes through in her preaching, comes through
1:20
in her real sense of identity and self and the
1:23
untangling of some of the negative things that
1:26
she has maybe inherited from Christian expressions
1:30
that were less helpful in her development and
1:32
how she has navigated untangling them and then
1:35
being able to express what's more true about
1:38
both the text and about God and about herself.
1:41
And I think that all comes out both in her preaching
1:43
and the conversation. Yeah, I really loved all
1:45
of her commentary on that. And there's so much
1:47
of her message that I'm still processing and
1:50
that is really still like living in my brain.
1:53
I love how. Her preaching style is so kind of
1:57
non -traditional and it felt very conversational.
2:00
Like I felt like I was having a conversation
2:01
with a friend and not sitting there listening
2:03
to a sermon. And so that was really unique and
2:06
really fun to talk to her about her preaching
2:07
style. And then she did this really great thing
2:10
that I love where she's talking about her deserving
2:14
some of these things when we think about like
2:16
what does self -care maybe look like or what
2:18
does it look like to really own this idea that
2:20
like we're deserving of rest. And that's something
2:22
that I really struggle to. accept. And so getting
2:26
to talk through that with her was really powerful
2:28
and something I'm still thinking about often.
2:31
So I'm so excited for people to hear this. Yeah,
2:34
and I would really encourage people to listen
2:35
to the whole sermon. As always, you can find
2:37
a link for that in our show notes. I remember,
2:40
you know, I was listening to many of her sermons.
2:42
We're navigating, what do we want to talk about?
2:44
Which one should we pick? And this one really
2:46
challenged me and helped me as I was trying to
2:49
navigate the reality that we're in. being a person
2:52
that's online. So I'd encourage you to check
2:55
out this sermon in the full version, which you
2:58
can find in our show notes. And please now enjoy
3:00
our conversation with Reverend Aurelia Davila
3:03
Pratt. Hello. We are so glad that you're here
3:14
and that you're joining us for Preacher Handshake.
3:17
Please tell us a little bit about your congregation.
3:19
Tell us a little bit about what the work it is
3:22
that you do. Yeah. Okay. So I'm currently the
3:26
lead pastor at Peace of Christ Church in Round
3:29
Rock, Texas. I'm also a founding pastor. We started
3:35
in... 2013. So we're about a dozen years old
3:41
now. And from the we've evolved a lot over the
3:45
years. But from the beginning, we've always been
3:47
a preaching rotation kind of community. And so
3:52
often the lead pastor will preach the most, but
3:56
we always have a wide variety of voices. And
3:59
particularly since the pandemic years, when we
4:04
moved online for a year or two um at that point
4:08
like all our pastors just uh rotated evenly and
4:13
then since then we have been very intentional
4:16
in our preaching rotation to have um just you
4:20
know not the same person speaking all the time
4:23
it's just a normal part of our culture i think
4:25
if the same person was always preaching everyone
4:27
would be very confused um so that's a big marker
4:30
of our um our kind of Congregation -led, collaborative
4:35
spirit that our community has. And yeah, I really
4:40
love what we're doing. But I guess I shared a
4:44
little bit about it in terms of our preaching
4:46
style. Tell us a little bit about, if you don't
4:51
mind, like your kind of typical people that make
4:55
up your congregation. Who are they? What are
4:58
they like? I would say we're predominantly young
5:03
families. There are people of all ages but we're
5:08
a very small community. You might see 30 adults
5:13
at a service. One Sunday, then on Easter, of
5:17
course, there's going to be like more, you know,
5:19
50, 60, 70. But if we have 25 adults, we will
5:25
have 25 kids. It doesn't matter. There's always
5:28
like a kid. There's just so many children. And
5:31
so it's a very vibrant, active community. We
5:36
are not a neighborhood church. We're in north
5:40
of the Austin Metro. And so people drive from.
5:44
many different cities to come to our services.
5:49
We don't own a building. We rent a space in Round
5:54
Rock. And so people drive from all over the area
5:58
to come there. And then we try to create other
6:02
pockets of community all throughout the county,
6:04
you know, as a part of our normal way of gathering
6:09
because Everybody lives 20, 25 minutes away.
6:13
Usually we also have a very we have a lot of
6:20
people who they were done with church, but then
6:22
they were like, let me just try one more time.
6:25
And so everybody is very open to doing things
6:29
differently. We have a lot of innovative, I think,
6:32
creative ways of moving in our community. And
6:36
the people in the community are very supportive
6:38
of that. And so one thing we do that I think
6:42
would give a fun idea of who we are is every
6:46
first Sunday, we pause all programming and don't
6:48
meet at all. We actually started this before
6:50
the pandemic. So it was not a pandemic thing.
6:53
It was just a... We're a small community. We're
6:56
community led, community funded. We don't have
6:59
any grants, any financial support outside the
7:02
people in our community and not a wealthy congregation
7:06
either. No rich aunties or anything like that
7:11
giving us money. So we're very like, I guess,
7:15
grassroots feeling in a way and how we operate.
7:19
And we just wanted to acknowledge that everyone's
7:22
all hands on deck and we get tired and we have
7:24
lots of young kids with activities. And so once
7:27
a month we pause. And then, yeah, we do a house
7:32
church kind of thing once a month as well. And
7:35
so we actually only gather in the traditional
7:37
way twice a month on the second and fourth Sundays,
7:41
plus Easter and the first Sunday of Advent. Something
7:45
we like to ask everybody is. What's your relationship
7:49
to preaching? Something that you've always loved,
7:51
something you discovered, something that's a
7:54
highlight or something you feel like you just
7:55
have to do? Yeah, I love preaching. I love the
8:00
art of it. I love the different elements that
8:06
make up the preaching moment and how it's kind
8:08
of different from other ways of speaking. I was
8:10
always a person who loved communicating and I
8:15
was a speech major in undergrad. I always felt
8:19
comfortable as a public speaker. And in fact,
8:22
I feel like I'm a stronger speaker than I am
8:26
writer. Some people feel maybe stronger with
8:28
the writing and then they do the speaking and
8:30
I'm kind of the opposite. I feel like I bring
8:32
things to life more when I speak them. And I
8:36
love that about the preaching moment. When I
8:39
was in seminary, I just took a preaching class
8:42
because I had to. I think I probably had some
8:45
imposter syndrome. And that was kind of what
8:48
made me think that I didn't really have permission
8:50
to do any more than that with preaching. I did
8:53
come from a background, first Catholicism growing
8:57
up. And then in college, I moved into the Southern
9:00
Baptist tradition. And so I did not feel empowered
9:02
to explore preaching. So I took the required
9:06
class. It was my very last, like one of my, I
9:09
think it was toward the very end. I put it off.
9:13
I loved it, but it was the only class I took.
9:17
I mean, it's kind of a funny story, but I ended
9:20
up winning the preaching award for my class from
9:24
that one sermon. And I called the school when
9:28
they emailed me because I think three or four
9:30
people get that award. I called the school to
9:34
let them know they accidentally attached me to
9:36
this email. I was like, there is no way I just
9:40
won this award. But it was just such a gift because
9:44
again, like struggling with that imposter syndrome,
9:47
it gave me kind of the empowerment that I needed
9:50
to feel like it's okay. Like I can, I'm allowed
9:55
to do this. And also I might be good at it. And
9:58
so when I was starting this church, I was originally
10:02
just coming on as a pastor who was doing more
10:06
like formation stuff, associate type stuff. And
10:10
they asked me, they saw on my resume that award.
10:14
I mean, I put it on my resume and they were like,
10:17
would you join the preaching rotation? I mean,
10:19
I've literally preached two times ever. So I,
10:23
it's just an interesting mix of. random, but
10:26
also like not wanting to downplay that I did
10:29
have an inclination for, you know, the preaching
10:32
part of being a pastor. I love that. That's awesome.
10:37
Yeah, that's such a cool story. I imagine that
10:39
having that kind of like dichotomy of being in
10:42
the SBC for a minute, and then also having this
10:45
experience with preaching. um something that
10:48
I also was like trying to navigate as a young
10:50
preacher so it's really cool that you were affirmed
10:54
maybe in subtle ways that uh have played out
10:57
it seems like in your life since then so yeah
10:59
would you tell us a little bit about what your
11:02
sermon prep process looks like in its week for
11:05
you yeah I um I mean you know I'm I try to listen
11:11
to my intuition and like what what Does it require
11:15
me this week? But overall, I think my process
11:19
is that I start with Lectio Divina. I usually
11:23
read. We follow the lectionary in our community.
11:28
It's not required if you're preaching, but most
11:30
people do. And I always do. I love the rhythm
11:34
of the liturgical calendar. And so. I'll follow
11:37
the lectionary. I'll take the text. I'll read
11:39
through all the texts and then decide based on,
11:41
you know, which one resonates and stir something
11:43
within me. Sometimes I'll use all the texts,
11:46
but I'll always have a primary and I'll write
11:50
it down on paper and I'll do a Lectio Divina.
11:53
I'll read it and then I'll have silence and I'll
11:56
do that. And then after the silence, I'll jot
11:58
down any notes and I'll do that three times.
12:00
And then oftentimes I will. use those notes and
12:07
I'll because I'm more of a speaker and I'm more
12:09
of an external processor I will actually pull
12:12
up my voice notes app and I will looking at all
12:15
my notes I'll pretend like I'm giving a sermon
12:18
off the cuff with those notes and then that usually
12:23
will our sermons are usually 15 to 18 minutes
12:26
usually that will produce like a 12 minute recording
12:30
I'll then transcribe that and onto my computer
12:34
and then i'll go through the process of looking
12:38
up using my commentaries to supplement making
12:41
sure like you know i'm providing what needs to
12:45
be provided by way of exegesis i used to do this
12:47
differently by the way where i'd start with exegesis
12:50
first but um there's many reasons why i changed
12:54
that process um and i'm sure we can get into
12:57
that with more guiding questions i guess but
13:00
yeah that's kind of the process for me um and
13:03
i do use manuscript preaching um i've a few times
13:08
done outlines but um just the seminary that i
13:12
went to the experience i had and the church we've
13:14
created were mostly manuscripts yeah thanks for
13:19
sharing it's such an interesting And beautiful
13:23
process. And it's so embodied, like I'm hearing.
13:25
So you write by hand this text. Yeah, I've done
13:29
that before, just like as like a spiritual practice.
13:32
And it just brings to life the text in ways like,
13:34
yeah, it's so interesting. It forces you to slow
13:37
down to in a way because we can obviously type
13:40
so much faster. I also I can be very wordy. And
13:45
so I find that using a notebook and I use a pencil.
13:51
before i ever get to my computer helps me really
13:54
like refine what i really want to say because
13:57
my hand will get tired like i'm not gonna you
14:00
know the most important thoughts are gonna come
14:02
down into the paper and um that helps me anyway
14:06
as a kind of a long -winded type so we are looking
14:11
at a sermon today that you preached on january
14:13
26th called wasted time and before we kind of
14:17
get into the meat of that I wanted to ask a question
14:21
about something that you mentioned kind of a
14:24
third of the way through where you're talking
14:26
about this series of epiphanies, which is the
14:28
sermon series that you are in in this. And you've
14:33
mentioned it a little bit before about the collaboration
14:35
that your church really gets into. But it seems
14:38
like this series is also where you're demonstrating
14:41
collaboration. So I'd like to listen to that
14:44
and then ask a question about your process. We're
14:46
in week three of our annual Epiphany preaching
14:49
series. We always do this time of year. It's
14:53
a favorite of mine because we get to hear from
14:55
so many voices in our community, which is so
14:59
important, right? So I love particularly the
15:03
personal nature of the series. I love hearing
15:06
people's stories and lessons. At the same time,
15:10
I tend to find that when it's my own turn to
15:13
preach, This series is one of the hardest because
15:16
I can't really share any personal epiphanies
15:19
without being vulnerable. So I love that this
15:23
is a practice that your church does. And I love
15:26
how you're honest about when the subject matter
15:28
is really coming from you of like, what are the
15:30
epiphanies I can share that that seems like such
15:33
a vulnerable process, but I imagine so valuable
15:36
for people to hear those voices. So I'm curious,
15:39
would you tell us a little bit about how that
15:41
practice came about where you're doing a series
15:43
of epiphanies every year and why you think that
15:47
hearing from those other voices is really important?
15:50
When we first started the church, even though
15:52
we were a rotation, we didn't use series, preaching
15:56
series. We only use the lectionary. And then
15:58
about five years in, we decided to try series.
16:04
And I had a little resistance because I didn't
16:06
want to lose the feel of the lectionary, but
16:08
we actually still use it. But anyways, the series
16:12
just kind of helped us. create an energy around
16:16
what was going on in the community when we can
16:18
you know share also we can use the series to
16:22
be really specific to the needs of our own community
16:25
so the lectionary rarely reflects the church
16:28
universal but our own community has specific
16:31
needs and the series helps us like you know attend
16:35
to those needs through the preaching moment and
16:39
so for yeah the last seven or eight years we
16:43
as a team come together and we brainstorm the
16:47
preaching series to come up so i think it was
16:49
2019 i can't remember what year it was but i
16:55
think it was 2019 when we just came up with the
16:59
epiphany series because uh of those collaboration
17:02
moments um we you know, it is the season of Epiphany.
17:06
And if you follow the lectionary, that's an ordinary
17:08
time. So there's not really like, you know, Lent
17:12
kind of gives you stronger prompts. Advent gives
17:14
you like exact themes for each week. Ordinary
17:18
time can be very long. It is long. It's the longest
17:21
part. It's the longest, takes up most of the
17:23
calendar. And so for Epiphany, we were just trying
17:26
to decide what we wanted to do there. And we
17:28
decided what, you know, wouldn't it be fun to
17:30
just share personal epiphanies we've had. Um,
17:33
and at, we have different pastors now we've,
17:37
we have, you know, we're multi -vocational community.
17:40
And so people have transitioned off and others
17:43
have come on, but we've just continued to do
17:45
the series, um, because we enjoyed it as preachers.
17:49
Um, you know, it's. And it's not and it's not
17:53
going to be an exegesis heavy series. It's going
17:56
to be more personal, more quote unquote testimony
17:59
style. But I think people enjoy that. I think
18:03
people really resonate and at least I do. I love
18:06
hearing. I always like perk up when I hear someone
18:09
start to tell a story from a pulpit, a personal
18:12
story, because I don't know. It's just it's interesting
18:14
to me. And so. vulnerability can be a superpower
18:18
I don't think that we would want to do something
18:21
like that all year long because it's not always
18:23
relevant like sharing about yourself is not always
18:25
what's needed but once a year it's nice and again
18:28
we always like have different people um we try
18:32
to do a different person every week in that series
18:34
um I think I did twice this last time but everyone
18:39
else there was one person um so anyway yeah that's
18:42
how it got started but fun fact actually My very
18:46
first sermon for that series was called A Brown
18:49
Girl's Epiphany. And then that went on to be
18:52
the name of my first book. So I have a book out
18:55
there called A Brown Girl's Epiphany, which it
18:58
like you wouldn't know this through reading it,
19:00
but it's actually like my canon and each chapter
19:03
is based on like a sermon that I've done before.
19:05
So you would never know that reading it. But
19:07
that's I actually pulled from like my old sermons
19:10
to construct chapters. And anyways, that came
19:13
from that series turned into a book. So in this
19:19
one, you begin with this quote, and I want to
19:22
play that. So imagine there's a country that
19:26
doesn't have a government, a king, a queen, or
19:30
a president. There's nobody around to take care
19:32
of the country. The country needs a government.
19:35
It's the same with ourselves. We need to be present
19:40
in our territory. to take care of it because
19:45
our territory is large. It includes our body,
19:49
feelings, perceptions, mental formations, and
19:52
consciousness. We need to be the king or queen
19:57
and govern our territory. We need to know what
20:00
is precious and beautiful so we can protect it.
20:04
We need to know what things aren't so beautiful
20:07
so we can fix and transform them. As kings and
20:11
queens, we need to become aware of our responsibility
20:15
to see that we need to be the sovereign, to return
20:20
to our territory and take care of it. Thich Nhat
20:26
Hanh, peace activist and Buddhist monk, by the
20:29
way, he passed in 2022, talks about the self
20:33
here. using this metaphor of territory meeting
20:38
governance, which is to say attention and care.
20:43
And indeed, here's what I am learning, and I
20:48
believe it's a lifelong kind of lesson that will
20:50
require lifelong practice. I am learning to take
20:55
care of both my bodies, my body, my territory,
21:00
and the body. so beautifully described in today's
21:06
reading. So much to unpack there, but I want
21:09
to start just by asking about the quote. And
21:13
I love that you're bringing in this interfaith
21:15
element to your preaching, demonstrating the
21:18
things that we are learning and can learn from
21:20
other faith communities and faith expressions.
21:23
Why do you think it's important to expose your
21:27
congregation to these voices? And why is interfaith
21:31
elements helpful? Should we have a logical discussion?
21:37
You know, I don't even really think of it that
21:42
way because I think that in our community, we've
21:45
really tried to take, you know, knock down the
21:51
walls around the box that we put up around our
21:54
faith, our idea of what's holy, what's sacred.
21:59
We really, you know, interfaith is normal for
22:03
us. We used to do weekly interfaith gatherings
22:07
for the first five, six years of our community's
22:11
existence and then have had a long relationship
22:14
with the... Interfaith Action of Central Texas
22:18
here in Austin. And so that's always been a part
22:22
of our community and normalized to have interfaith
22:26
relationships and to appreciate other faith traditions,
22:31
especially because when we did those interfaith
22:34
gatherings, what we learned was that Every single
22:38
speaker that came in, whether Hindu, Buddhist,
22:41
Jewish, whatever tradition they might have been
22:44
from, Muslim, they were all able to quote the
22:46
Bible. They were all able to say, here's what
22:48
inspired me about Jesus. And none of us knew
22:51
anything about their faith. And that felt very
22:53
interesting to me. And so widening our idea of
22:58
how God shows up and how. not just in other faith
23:02
traditions, but just in our everyday lives. And
23:05
so, you know, the idea of quotidian is something
23:07
that has been very, very, very important to me
23:11
for many years. And so, you know, we like, just
23:16
like we'll quote someone in a sermon, we'll also
23:20
do like, we have this whole small group series
23:22
called Music Movies Books, and we intentionally
23:24
pick non -religious music. movies and books to
23:29
explore because we don't want to compartmentalize
23:32
our faith. We want every moment to be, you know,
23:36
this embodied moment where we understand, you
23:39
know, and experience our Mago Day and the reality
23:43
of, you know, how faith and God and divine show
23:47
up all around us. And especially including, you
23:50
know, widening the circle of faith texts and,
23:54
you know. not being afraid or threatened by that.
23:58
It's so enriching. And I think I'm hearing that
24:01
part of it is, you know, the communication speaks
24:04
into that, but so much of it must have come out
24:07
of that proximity and intentional work. And then
24:09
it's natural that it just becomes part of your
24:11
language because you're living it. And I just
24:14
think that's a great example and so helpful.
24:16
So you kind of tease this thing at the end of
24:19
the clip we just listened to where you're thinking
24:21
about two bodies and you use that image and that
24:25
language kind of throughout where you're thinking
24:27
of your body and the body and how both of those
24:32
deserve good things. One of my favorite things
24:37
I think that you say throughout this is, I believe
24:39
this full overflowing cup is our sovereign right
24:42
and our responsibility. So let's listen to the
24:45
clip where you say that. um and talk a little
24:47
bit about this idea of the two bodies and i'm
24:51
learning that i cannot offer much to the body
24:56
if my own territory my own self is neglected
25:01
i believe that our internal thriving is crucial
25:07
to any sustainable contributions we can make
25:10
in the world which means for me I must do things
25:16
like daily face my own thoughts and feelings,
25:20
my own healing. I must do things like daily listen
25:25
to my body's cues and then give it what it needs.
25:31
These things require my attention. And so, in
25:38
order to care for myself, I need fuel. I need
25:43
energy. What's more, the investment of prioritizing
25:48
this care is worthy because when I'm well rested,
25:52
when I'm joyful and hopeful, when I am well,
25:57
I am able to function as a part of the body,
26:02
capital B, in ways I didn't even think possible.
26:07
I am able to show up in this world with things
26:10
like clarity and creativity in tow. And I am
26:15
able to move throughout my days with deeper purpose
26:19
because I am more in touch with the ways in which,
26:22
as Frederick Buechner once put it, my deep gladness
26:26
and the world's deep hunger meet. My body and
26:32
the body. Again, greeting each day this way requires
26:37
fuel, energy, a full cup. And here's the thing.
26:45
I believe I deserve this. And I believe the same
26:49
for you, image bearer, child of God. I believe
26:55
this full and flowing cup is our sovereign right
27:00
and responsibility. Yeah, so like I said, you
27:06
said that, like, I believe that this is our sovereign
27:09
right and our responsibility. And for me, it
27:13
was kind of just like this breath of fresh air
27:15
in a way that I see it being not just profound
27:19
and powerful, but also kind of subversive in
27:22
the way that you're talking about what our right
27:24
is and the things that are part of human flourishing
27:28
and a good life. And it really, in a lot of ways,
27:32
to me, seems subversive to this, like, you know,
27:34
we are scum of the earth and can do nothing good
27:37
kind of theology that sometimes we take on or
27:41
is handed to us, maybe. So I'm curious, how did
27:44
you come to this idea of the two bodies language
27:47
and the saying, this is our right? And why was
27:50
it important in this message for you to kind
27:53
of begin with that idea? Yes, if you listen to
27:56
all my sermons, they all say the same thing,
27:59
which is Imago Dei. That's the central theological.
28:03
belief that's underpins everything I talk about
28:06
and in fact I'm sure I say it in that sermon
28:08
there's probably not a sermon where I don't say
28:11
the words the mongo day it just drives everything
28:14
I say to the point where I do feel like I'm just
28:17
saying the same thing over and over and I'm like
28:18
oh this is so boring they're just they're like
28:20
again but um that's what it's about and I think
28:27
You know, that's contrary to some of the evangelical
28:30
frameworks we inherited, which told us we were
28:33
bad and told us, you know, we can't be trusted.
28:38
Our hearts are deceitful. Well, who do we trust
28:40
then? Well, we trust God. Well, who interprets
28:43
what God's saying? Like, OK, the Bible, like
28:46
who's deciding what the right interpretation
28:48
is? Oh, OK. A spiritual leader who's a human
28:51
whose heart is supposedly also deceitful. It's
28:53
like. This doesn't actually work for me, but
28:56
what does work for me and what I think that we
28:59
all have within us is that, you know, we're made
29:03
in God's image and God's spirit lives within
29:06
us and we're inherently good and we can trust
29:11
ourselves. We can trust the voice within us.
29:13
And I think that we've been taught from a very
29:15
young age to be disconnected to that voice within
29:18
us and to distrust it. And so. You know, people
29:22
go to church and they want prescriptions. They
29:25
want a fill in the blank of what to do and how
29:29
to proceed. And I think that's not helpful. I
29:34
think we as preachers and pastors, we need to
29:37
be equipping people to do their own work and
29:40
to listen to spirit within them. And we can come
29:45
alongside them and we can offer guidance and
29:47
help. Just as we need guidance and help, but
29:51
I'm suspicious of anyone who's giving out blueprints.
29:54
And I think that it's, you know, I think that
29:59
overall the church is very powerful and that
30:02
there's a lot of mass manipulation that goes
30:04
on and has gone on and continues to go on because
30:07
you can use that mass manipulation to tell people
30:11
what God is saying and what God is doing. And
30:13
that's what I see happening a lot. And so I think
30:17
we need to be empowering people with Imago Dei.
30:20
And I preach about it every single time I preach.
30:23
It is like a preaching adage that you really
30:26
just have one sermon and you just say that same
30:29
thing. And one of the things I loved about how
30:34
you help people with that, because sometimes
30:39
the language can be, maybe feel a little too
30:42
abstract or, okay, what do I? what does that
30:45
mean for me? How do you help people do that work?
30:47
I love how you connected it to that famous Beechner
30:49
quote of our deep gladness in the world's deep
30:52
hunger, because it gave it this like, oh yeah,
30:55
this part of me is good. And that my gladness
30:58
is good. I've struggled with undoing some of
31:02
the things that I've inherited to be able to
31:04
accept that. I want to ask over the, you know,
31:08
your, your tenure pastoring in this congregation,
31:11
how have you seen your congregation grasp that
31:17
vocation that they have of God's good work in
31:21
the world coming out of their deep gladness?
31:23
How have you helped them discover the reality
31:26
of Imago Dei? How have you seen it? Yeah, I mean,
31:30
I think that it is, and what's so beautiful about
31:33
it is that at this point, it's just automatic.
31:37
Everybody knows what Imago Dei is. Everybody
31:40
knows what it means. Like it's just, it's really
31:45
cool because it's like, I can see that, you know,
31:49
yes, we're undoing, but Imago Dei is very empowering.
31:54
And so for me, pastoring a church that is filled
31:58
with people who are either deconstructing or
32:02
have already deconstructed, that can be really
32:05
hard and heavy work. um as a pastor because everyone
32:10
around you is wanting to burn everything down
32:13
and i've also as a small church that i helped
32:19
start i've seen this trajectory where um i've
32:24
realized how much i have to like know what i
32:27
believe and what you know the church is there
32:31
for or else it just kind of becomes this club
32:33
where people are have friends which is awesome
32:36
but i feel like the church goes deeper than friendship
32:39
like it's it's the community sacred community
32:43
plays a function that is different and deeper
32:45
than friendship and um so anyway when when You
32:50
know what the community is about. And for me,
32:52
at the core of that is Imago Dei. You can be
32:56
steady when a lot of people around you are going
32:59
through the fire and are burning some stuff down
33:02
and throwing some things out. And I think Imago
33:04
Dei provides a soft place to land. So what I
33:08
see in my community is that people don't. stay
33:12
in faith crisis, you know, like going through
33:14
deconstruction is going through faith crisis.
33:16
And Imago Dei has provided a place for people
33:19
to land and for people to still have a rich faith
33:23
and to have a faith that provides spiritual resources
33:27
that help them in their everyday lives so that
33:31
they're not. you know a lot of us were tethered
33:33
to shame and guilt that was the tool of faith
33:36
and so now people have these other tethers which
33:39
are like um goodness and hopefulness and peace
33:44
and and other spiritual resources that i think
33:47
imago day provides and those resources are what
33:50
get us through life i mean they are so whatever
33:54
they're doing in their lives whatever their jobs
33:56
are like having That tether to that good thing
34:00
within them is helping them. And it's kind of
34:03
like this oxygen mask. That's so helpful. So
34:07
rich. And so you identify the oxygen mask. And
34:11
then next in your sermon, you're going to talk
34:12
about this leak that you notice in your own life.
34:15
So let's listen to that. In all of this, I've
34:20
been taking notice of ways that I tend to waste
34:23
my own time. I'm not necessarily talking about
34:27
indulgence, frivolity or play or fun. I'm not
34:30
even talking about laziness or open space or
34:34
times of doing nothing. And I'm not suggesting
34:38
that I or we should always be productive, whatever
34:42
that necessarily means. What I mean, at least
34:47
today, by wasted time. is using our time in such
34:51
a way that drains us of the resources we need
34:55
to be well in the here and now. So for me, wasted
35:00
time is anything that unnecessarily and perpetually
35:05
drains me of things like hope and joy, of that
35:09
inner energy that fills my cup. And like I mentioned
35:13
earlier, in 2024 i discovered a slow leak gradual
35:18
but significant one of the areas where i feel
35:23
like i have truly wasted a lot of time is on
35:27
social media and i'm not even talking about the
35:32
mindless scrolling although i'm certain i've
35:33
already lost years of my life to that unfortunately
35:36
I'm speaking specifically to my own attempts
35:39
to get people who disagree with me to somehow
35:42
start agreeing with me based on the posts I'm
35:45
going to share on social media. Lots of time
35:47
wasted, I fear. And listen, there's nuance here.
35:52
And there's always going to be nuance. So around
35:56
the time that you preach this is around the time
35:57
I listened to it. And I had recently had a conversation
36:00
with my partner about social media and I found
36:02
myself. in the same kind of situation because
36:04
it's 2025 and you preach this on January 26th.
36:08
There was so much to be despairing about and
36:12
caught up in and trying to change people's minds
36:14
about. So after this conversation, I deleted
36:18
the apps from my phone. I built some new rhythms.
36:21
But I've been trying to navigate how to talk
36:23
about these kind of healthier practices in preaching
36:28
because at some level, I don't want to be like
36:30
the old man yelling at the cloud. At the other
36:33
level, I don't want to ignore the nuance of the
36:35
value of digital community and what that means
36:39
for so many people. So I wanted to ask you, as
36:43
you were sharing your own epiphany, how that
36:46
response has been, and just affirm you as a fellow
36:49
terminally online person, that it was really
36:51
helpful for me to hear you express it and talk
36:54
about this leak. But how has your community responded
36:57
to it? And maybe how did you decide to run with
37:00
this idea? It was the Epiphany series and it
37:03
was, you know, I actually, it was a really hard
37:06
sermon for me because I had a whole nother sermon
37:09
in my back pocket. It was the Epiphany series.
37:11
So I like, I already had another sermon. And
37:14
then that week was the week that it was. And
37:17
I realized like, no, like this isn't, I, this
37:22
is, I have to. this is what's now coming up.
37:26
So I put the, luckily I had one more sermon date
37:28
in that series. So I still got to use it, the
37:30
other one, but I put the other one aside and
37:32
I, I really struggled with this one because of
37:36
just what you said, like the, there is a lot
37:40
of value in social media. And I talk about in
37:44
the sermon, you know, naming some of the ways
37:46
it has been really important and is really important.
37:50
And I didn't want, I was so afraid of being misunderstood,
37:56
which is crazy because my community is so accepting,
38:00
like nobody ever complains about anything. And
38:03
so it should be fine. But I was just so worried
38:07
that people were going to like think that I was
38:09
checking out or like. just opting out, which
38:16
is a privilege. And that's not really what I
38:19
was trying to say in the sermon, but I was worried
38:21
about that. So I wrestled with it all week. I
38:23
actually, to this day, have never finished a
38:27
sermon so close to when I preached it. I was
38:30
late to church, like by an hour, which I've never,
38:33
it was just, I did not, it wasn't finished. I
38:36
couldn't, it was, I was wrestling with it. And
38:39
I was so, I just felt like it was so vulnerable.
38:42
So it was just, yeah, it was late and, and I
38:45
didn't get to review it. It was a rough draft.
38:47
I didn't get to like, you know, tweak it. And
38:51
yeah, I was like, I was just so tired. I didn't
38:55
sleep at all. It's like, it's so dumb because,
38:58
well, I guess now maybe more people hear it,
39:01
but it's such a small community. Not that many
39:03
people are going to hear it. We all know each
39:04
other, but I really, I don't usually agonize
39:08
to that level. But yeah, it was. That was kind
39:12
of the behind the scenes of how I ended up with
39:14
that sermon. And it's sometimes that way where
39:18
like those ones that you agonize over also sometimes
39:21
have the most resonance and most connection to
39:23
what the spirit is doing. Yeah. So many people,
39:26
I mean, I'm, you know, I've been around 13 years.
39:28
I've preached probably the most. And so I get
39:31
the least amount of feedback, right? Like I'm
39:33
just like the, I'm just the automatic voice there.
39:38
You know, people are nice, but I don't get a
39:40
lot of feedback one way or the other. But I had
39:43
so many people come up to me and be like, I really
39:45
needed to hear that. So it turned sometimes I
39:48
think in preaching, we we want to speak to as
39:51
many people as possible. In some weeks, we're
39:55
really just not meant to try and do that. We're
39:58
meant to just give the message we've received.
40:01
And it's going to be very specific, but like
40:04
the people who need it really, really need it.
40:08
And I think that was the surrender for me that
40:11
week was I'm always trying to like speak to every
40:14
person and I know everyone too. So it's like,
40:17
I kind of am good at that. And I knew that week
40:20
that I wouldn't be, I would just be speaking
40:22
to the people that needed it, but it was, it
40:25
was, I think needed for those. Yeah. And I think
40:28
sometimes in preaching too, we're, we're preaching
40:30
to ourselves. almost as much or as more than
40:33
we're preaching to anyone else yeah and i feel
40:35
like i could hear that so much in some of the
40:38
ways that it was so obvious that you were dealing
40:40
with this and you wrestling with this obviously
40:43
like social media has changed the way we do everything
40:47
in life and it's kind of this like relationship
40:51
we're always kind of drawing on and going back
40:53
to but i love that you handled it so well and
40:57
we're willing to just change the way that it
40:59
needed to go because that was what needed to
41:01
be said in the moment. You also brought up this
41:04
really interesting part, how talk sometimes is
41:09
outweighing the doing, especially when we're
41:11
culturally people who are chronically online
41:14
and how we talk a lot, but it's really outweighing
41:18
maybe some of the work that we're doing. And
41:20
these one -way conversations are really replacing
41:23
actions. So let's listen to a clip where you
41:27
talk about that and specifically the way that
41:30
it relates to caring for the body as you're talking
41:33
about in this sermon. For me personally, this
41:35
is a reevaluation of a strategy that isn't working
41:39
very well these days. And it's a realization
41:42
that a huge source of my own lack of energy is
41:45
not just the state of the world, but the constant
41:48
conversation about the state of the world. Around
41:52
the clock, no boundaries, no breaks, no rest.
41:56
One -way conversations are outpacing the actions
42:01
needed to care for the body. Talk is outweighing
42:06
the doing, the movement, the tangible acts of
42:09
creating change. There has to be another way.
42:13
Yeah, so tell us a little bit more about why
42:16
you felt like this commentary on the talking
42:18
versus the doing and the tension there was necessary,
42:22
especially since, you know, you've already acknowledged
42:24
that talking can and does have an impact, and
42:28
we've seen that, but why was it important to
42:30
bring up kind of that dichotomy? What was the
42:33
significance of that? Yeah, I just think over
42:39
the years, my experience, as a pastor sort of
42:44
surveying the landscape of the situation collectively
42:48
is, especially in a progressive, increasingly
42:53
progressive Christian context, because I don't
42:56
know that we were necessarily in that when we
42:58
were birthed as a church, but things, the landscape
43:02
of all that has evolved very quickly and a lot.
43:05
And what I've just seen is just a lot of Not
43:10
taking care of ourselves so that we can actually
43:13
do sustainable work for ever. But rather people
43:18
just like running on E and then they have nothing
43:22
left. And I feel like that was what this whole
43:26
sermon was about, is that we're not using our
43:28
time smartly like so that there's so that we
43:33
can do sustainable heaven on earth work. For
43:38
the rest of our lives. And so when I see so many
43:43
people posting and I see a direct correlation
43:48
of hopelessness and despair, I have to wonder,
43:55
you know, like, is this helpful for sustainable
43:59
heaven on earth work? Because it's not like I
44:05
said in the sermon, like. What's the end goal
44:08
when you share a post? Like just reevaluate.
44:11
Maybe it is worth sharing. But like if you're
44:14
not thinking about it and you're just constantly
44:17
sharing, constantly talking, but you're also
44:21
exhausting yourself in the process. How is anything
44:24
real like doing practice going to happen? Because
44:28
you're exhausted. We are exhausted. And so I
44:33
think that was really what that was about is
44:35
just like. We're we're talking a lot on social
44:39
media. And the worst part about it is like long
44:43
ago, we all kind of set up who we wanted to listen
44:47
to and followed the people that annoyed us. So
44:50
who are you talking to? They're not reading your
44:52
post, you know. And so I'm not saying don't ever
44:56
post, don't ever share. I still share. It's just
44:59
maybe re maybe reset your boundaries, reset.
45:04
your relationship because social media came upon
45:07
us hard and fast. And I don't know that many
45:11
of us have reevaluated enough as it's changed.
45:15
So yeah, less talking there so that we have the
45:20
energy to actually put some of our beliefs into
45:23
action in real life. And we can still use it.
45:26
We can still use it for all the good that it
45:27
can do, but it just feels like a really intense.
45:33
overflow of information all the time yeah and
45:37
i think sometimes you know i fall into this trap
45:39
of like constantly being in this mode of talking
45:41
and then realizing that like there's such value
45:44
in me honestly just shutting up and listening
45:47
and i think when we're in this conversation of
45:50
like talking and doing there's like a real aspect
45:53
of listening to one another that's lost when
45:55
we're just talking at each other and so i really
45:59
appreciated this point of being able to do the
46:04
work more honestly, more generously. One of the
46:09
things that's really interesting to me about
46:11
this message in particular is that it's really
46:15
not your typical evangelical three points in
46:18
a poem or even, you know, some of like the Haddon
46:22
Robinson big idea type of preaching. It's very
46:25
conversational. It relies really heavily on your
46:29
personal experience. Listening to it kind of
46:30
feels more like I'm having a conversation with
46:33
a friend. You're not exegeting things line by
46:36
line and you already shared a little bit about
46:38
how your process is kind of like flipped in that
46:41
way where you're starting maybe from your own
46:43
experience. So it sounds like this is pretty
46:46
typical of your preaching style, but I'm just
46:49
curious, like how did you develop that as a method
46:52
for doing it? Especially since it sounds like
46:55
the training maybe that you have in this is something
46:57
that is a little more... structured in some ways.
47:01
But I'm really curious. I really love the way
47:03
that you did this. So tell us how you developed
47:05
your preaching style. Yeah. So the first thing
47:11
I did was, well, not the first thing, but one
47:14
of the most important things I ever did was put
47:16
away the commentaries for a while. So this agony
47:21
that I experienced with this last sermon was
47:23
frustrating for me because I've gotten away from
47:25
that. But For many years, every time I preached,
47:29
it was like that. And maybe like five or six
47:34
years ago, I wrote an article about how I I don't
47:38
remember the name of it. And I think it's behind
47:39
a paywall. So it's pointless. But like, basically,
47:42
I had this discovery that every single time I
47:49
stepped up to the preaching moment and the preaching
47:53
process moment. I was having to one at a time
47:59
untangle myself from these cords of indoctrination
48:03
that were binding me as a woman, as a woman of
48:08
color. Being in a progressive context, there
48:11
were all these cords that even though I said,
48:15
I don't believe that anymore. I believe women
48:18
can preach. I believe this and that. Like, even
48:21
though I said that, these like these cords were
48:23
still like wrapped around me and binding me.
48:26
And so every time I had to step up to preach
48:28
and to write a sermon, I would go through this
48:31
agonizing process of having to unpeel all of
48:35
those, which was kind of an emotional. It was
48:40
a kind of emotional turmoil to go through that.
48:42
But once I realized, oh, here's this cord of
48:45
women can't preach. Like once I realized that
48:48
those existed, I could just litter that awareness,
48:51
as they say, was the medicine. I could literally
48:54
be free. I got to find that article one day.
48:59
And what did I say? But anyways, so that was
49:02
a really important moment for me. After that,
49:06
I realized that I really needed to put away the
49:09
commentaries because the part of me that did
49:12
not trust my own spirit within me, my own intuition
49:16
that I think is spirit speaking into your life.
49:22
I didn't have access to that because I was using
49:25
the commentaries and it's fine to use commentaries,
49:28
but it can. I think, make for a really boring
49:32
sermon if your whole sermon just sounds like
49:35
a repeated exegesis of other people's voices.
49:38
I don't think it's helpful for the community.
49:41
I think it's boring to hear a communicator do
49:44
it that way. That's for me. There's no room for
49:46
creativity. And so I needed to step away from
49:49
that. Also, all the commentaries I'd ever read
49:51
were like white men. So like I was angry about
49:55
that. So it was a healing process for me to just
49:58
put them away and force myself to lean into whatever
50:01
my own voice would say. And I often talk about
50:04
the Wesleyan quadrilateral and we learned about
50:07
that in seminary. But, you know. It's frustrating
50:10
for me because it's like we have reason, tradition,
50:14
scripture and experience. And it's supposed to
50:17
be like this, this balanced thing. But experience
50:22
actually like totally gets the boot and is not
50:25
respected. But what's interesting about that
50:29
is that reason is going to be kind of monopolized
50:34
by who? Like the voices in academia, who are
50:38
they? primarily. And then tradition, who are
50:43
they? And then scripture, well, that's interpreted
50:45
based on reason and tradition. And so the only
50:50
part of that quadrilateral that might make room
50:53
for marginalized voices gets rejected. And so
51:00
for me, it is an act of resistance. to bring
51:03
that back in to the conversation and sometimes
51:07
i very intentionally leave out um like leave
51:11
out the commentary process because i think that
51:14
it's important that all of us know that we have
51:17
the ability now i know that i'm equipped and
51:19
that i know how to have that process and i know
51:21
when i need i have the tools to look up dates
51:24
and to look up to make sure i'm like respecting
51:27
you know the reality of the the text and its
51:30
context. So I do think I still treat it with
51:34
a reverence. But yeah, I think that all of that
51:39
was a part of kind of the way I developed the
51:42
way that I preach, which is very intuitive, creative.
51:45
And I would also say poetic. I love spoken word
51:49
and writing spoken word. And I think if you listen
51:52
to my sermons, you'll often catch moments where
51:54
I'm like... It's almost like a spoken word was
51:57
inserted into the sermon a little bit. And so
52:01
just having the freedom to play like that is
52:03
a big part of my process too. It all comes through.
52:06
And yeah, it's really beautiful. I love what
52:10
you brought to your reflections on the quadrilateral.
52:13
I mean, that's just helpful. I wonder too, like
52:17
you mentioned at the beginning of like, even
52:22
in seminary, there was this like imposter syndrome.
52:25
And, like, personally, I sometimes, like, lean
52:29
on the quotes and the tradition or whatever because
52:31
it's like, well, I don't have anything to say,
52:34
you know. And to be able to release that and
52:36
realize that your voice is worth something and
52:41
you don't have to rely on these other voices,
52:43
I think that's so powerful and helpful. You get
52:47
more feedback. That's what I've learned. I get
52:49
more feedback on the weeks I was vulnerable and
52:51
the weeks that I shared something real. than
52:54
on the weeks that I like quoted, quoted, quoted,
52:57
or like, you know what I mean? Yeah. I wanted
53:01
to ask this as well, because you mentioned about
53:05
your community and how there is a team of preachers.
53:10
And also there's been a handing off of, and I
53:14
know there's things coming up in your life too.
53:16
And I'd love to hear a little bit about that
53:18
and that process and how. pastoral leadership
53:22
is kind of handled in this community that you've
53:25
helped create? You know, when we first started
53:28
the church, it was Kyle and I. Kyle and I started
53:31
as the founding pastors. Kyle was the lead pastor,
53:33
Kyle Tubbs. I was the pastor of spiritual formation.
53:36
But then we had other preaching pastors at that
53:39
time who just were a part of the preaching rotation.
53:42
And so we always shared that rotation. Also,
53:46
just the style of how our leadership is set up.
53:49
It's all very congregational led. And and so
53:52
when Kyle left, it was really scary at like for
53:57
for me, because that was like my partner in crime
54:00
for for five years. But it was really beautiful
54:03
to see like no one batted an eye. We kept on.
54:07
It didn't we did not take a hit in terms of.
54:12
This dynamic leader who was truly amazing, like
54:15
is gone now. And yes, that's hard. But because
54:18
of the way we function, the work continues. And
54:22
so I really that was the beginning of something
54:25
I think we leaned even more deeply into over
54:27
the years. The next couple of pastors that came
54:31
on there, three of us, Matthew and Fran. Matthew
54:34
is also a founder. But anyways, the point is,
54:37
is like we had a five year moment together. We
54:42
really split the preaching. And then we also
54:47
liked to bring in people in our community because
54:50
there's so many people who are clergy or seminary,
54:54
went to seminary or what. We just have so many
54:57
people who. were pastors or at least went to
55:00
seminary or something like that. And so we would
55:03
invite them to preach. And so at that point,
55:06
it was just like the expectation. So after Matthew
55:09
and Fran transitioned on and who both still continued
55:12
coming, but like, you know, moved on to other
55:14
things in their professional lives, we brought
55:18
in from our own community, we called them creative
55:21
preaching pastors. And so they were in the rotation,
55:24
they were paid when they preached, and their
55:25
only job was to be a part of that. keeping that
55:29
part, that rotation going in the collaborative
55:33
process of creating the series and vision and
55:35
all of that. And then now we have a few more
55:39
pastors who are here, who one of those creative
55:42
past preaching pastors is now just on the regular
55:45
staff. If you know, Kendall Roth, this, she joined
55:49
our staff. And so she's preaching, but we just
55:52
have a lot of preachers in the community. We're
55:54
so lucky. You know, we just invite people in
55:58
to preach. And so I'm actually getting ready
56:00
to roll off of staff. I think it was our trunk
56:03
or treat. We were having a church potluck last
56:06
fall and I was sitting at the table and there
56:08
were like six other people around me. And I realized
56:11
they were all former pastors at our church. And
56:15
I was just like, wow. I'm at the alumni table.
56:18
I was like, I want to I want to take a turn and
56:21
just like move into other ways of being, you
56:26
know, whatever is next. I don't actually know
56:29
what's next. I think I have a sabbatical ahead
56:32
of me that I need to take and get some rest.
56:35
So that's what I'm going to do when I step down
56:38
at the end of May. But yeah, I just I still feel
56:43
the same. energy in terms of call in terms of
56:47
just being a person of God in this world of creating
56:50
heaven on earth. But it's just sort of like,
56:52
it just feels like, you know, in our community,
56:55
we've taught our, we've taught ourselves, listen
56:57
to spirit, listen to those nudges and follow
57:00
them. And so I feel like that's what I'm doing.
57:02
And for some reason, it's not really, it's just
57:06
a liminal space kind of thing. But I feel at
57:08
peace, the community is going to be great and
57:11
everyone's supportive. So yeah just think the
57:15
the future of this collaborative preaching preaching
57:21
out of not just one person's personality but
57:24
a personality of a community you know i think
57:27
there's so much value and richness there and
57:28
it's just really encouraging to hear what you're
57:31
doing and i'm excited to see what that looks
57:35
like next for you after the sabbatical yeah yeah
57:39
thanks as we kind of wrap up our thoughts on
57:43
sermon and preaching in general, what are you
57:46
most proud of about this particular sermon? That's
57:49
a good question. It's funny because when I was
57:52
going up to give it, I was like, this is terrible.
57:56
It's a rough draft, all that. But there's...
57:59
You know about the preaching moment. It's just
58:02
so different from anything else for me because
58:05
I do speak in other ways. I do feel like it's
58:09
a spirit moment that it brings it to life when
58:12
you speak it out loud. And there's a moment where
58:15
there's an energy. And so after on the other
58:17
side of that sermon, I was like, wow, that's
58:19
one of my favorite sermons that I actually ever
58:23
wrote. So I think what I'm proud of about it
58:26
is that you chose it because. I'm just excited
58:29
it gets to have like a little bit more life,
58:31
you know, like it has that little moment. And
58:34
I thought it was a good, it had a good mix of.
58:39
personal but the personal was actually helpful
58:42
like don't share personal anecdotes but like
58:44
share story if it makes sense is relevant and
58:47
helpful to what the community needs so i thought
58:50
that the personal was helpful i thought that
58:53
it met the community where they are right now
58:55
i loved the um i loved the my body and the body
58:59
and the way i use the text which is a text what
59:02
we've looked that text every year i mean it's
59:05
we use that text all the time and so it's like
59:06
it was exciting to see a new way to tell that
59:10
story of that text. And, and, and yeah, I think
59:13
it brushed up on the current events in a way
59:16
that was hopefully relevant. Yeah. I love that.
59:22
I think. one of my most memorable sermons is
59:25
also one of those where it was like you found
59:27
out the day before you had to preach and I lost
59:29
my notes and things were not going well and I
59:32
was like stressed about it and then looking back
59:34
on it I think those are the moments like as a
59:37
preacher that I look back and say oh yeah like
59:40
this is the holy spirit the whole way and how
59:43
dumb am I to think sometimes that like that's
59:45
not a part of this because it's so obvious in
59:47
those moments and Yeah, it's beautiful. And I
59:50
can tell that this one really meant a lot to
59:52
you. So if you could do anything differently
59:55
in this sermon, is there anything you would do
59:58
differently? I would probably just go back and
1:00:01
edit the first draft. Like, I always, but that's
1:00:08
how I feel about all my sermons. Like, we don't.
1:00:11
they're not perfected. Like they, they're not,
1:00:14
we never have enough time on them. So with this
1:00:16
sermon and with any of my sermons, I would just
1:00:18
say like, if given more time, I could tweak it
1:00:21
and probably make it better. But you know, it
1:00:23
came alive in the moment that it was needed.
1:00:25
And I think overall it was fine. Our final question
1:00:29
is why do you think preaching matters today?
1:00:34
Yeah. I mean, I, I think it of course depends
1:00:38
on who you ask. You're asking me. As progressive
1:00:43
as I may be, and if you visit our community,
1:00:47
I mean, there's a lot of range. But I consider
1:00:53
myself Christian. I don't consider myself post
1:00:57
-Christian. I see a lot of churches and people,
1:01:00
and that's fine. But I've made peace with the
1:01:05
Christian label. I do think that I am trying
1:01:09
to be a little Christ and that, you know, I like
1:01:12
that way of framing the Christian label. And
1:01:15
so for me, the preaching moment is still one
1:01:18
that I hold dearly because of its, you know,
1:01:23
dedication to the text. It's really important
1:01:26
to breathe new life into these texts while still
1:01:31
honoring the reality of where they were situated.
1:01:35
And I think that texts can really get misused
1:01:38
and used as weapons. But the preaching moment
1:01:43
in my context is really important because we're
1:01:46
not allowing that to be the only way to engage
1:01:49
a text. And so it's really important to me to
1:01:51
continue. the preaching moment, not just a speaking
1:01:54
moment or a teaching moment, but like the preaching
1:01:57
moment where we engage a text and we, you know,
1:02:00
have some, some kind of exegetical moment where
1:02:05
we're looking at the text in this way to create
1:02:08
this moment that is a communal moment. Of course,
1:02:15
it's different if you're guest preaching somewhere,
1:02:17
but when you have the honor to preach to a community
1:02:21
who you know and who you're doing life with,
1:02:25
there's just something really, really helpful
1:02:29
about that, depending on how long, 15, 20 -minute
1:02:33
window, where everyone's sitting together receiving
1:02:36
this one moment. It's not the central moment
1:02:39
of our services. Our central moment is communion.
1:02:42
It is really, really important. And I think especially
1:02:47
with so many people burning down so much, hopefully
1:02:51
this sermon moment is a moment of building and
1:02:54
reimagining and finding hope. Well, thank you
1:02:58
so much for sharing this sermon and your time
1:03:01
with us. We really appreciate it. And we're so
1:03:04
excited to hear about the work your church is
1:03:07
doing and to see what you do next. So thank you.
1:03:11
We hope you enjoyed our conversation with Reverend
1:03:14
Aurelia Davila Pratt. If you'd like to listen
1:03:16
to Aurelia's full sermon or keep up with the
1:03:18
work that she's doing, you can follow her through
1:03:20
all the links posted in the show notes. And if
1:03:22
you like this episode, please share, subscribe,
1:03:24
tell your friends. If you have questions for
1:03:27
us or recommendations for guests, email us at
1:03:29
preacherhandshake at gmail .com. Thanks for listening.
1:03:32
See you in two weeks.