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Johnny Thunders: Murder or Overdose? · DISGRACELAND

0:00
Speaker 1: Disgraceland is a production of Double Elvis. This is a
0:21
Speaker 1: story about heartbreakers. It's about a hotel room and a
0:25
Speaker 1: body on the floor. It's about corporate rock dreams and
0:29
Speaker 1: punk junkie nightmares and the distance between the two. It's
0:33
Speaker 1: also a story about conspiracy theories and rock and roll myths,
0:38
Speaker 1: about self fulfilling prophecies and stacks of missing cash. This
0:43
Speaker 1: is a story about Johnny Thunders, which means it's a
0:47
Speaker 1: story about great music, some of the greatest and most
0:52
Speaker 1: authentic music to come out of the punk era and beyond.
0:56
Speaker 1: Unlike that clip I played for you at the top
0:58
Speaker 1: of the show that wasn't great music. That was a
1:01
Speaker 1: preset loop for my melotron called second Line Stompbox MK.
1:06
Speaker 2: Two.
1:07
Speaker 1: I played you that loop because I can afford the
1:10
Speaker 1: rights to You're in Love by Wilson Phillips. And why
1:14
Speaker 1: would I play you that specific slice of Nepo Cheese?
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Speaker 1: Could I afford it? Because that was the number one
1:21
Speaker 1: song in America on April twenty third, nineteen ninety one,
1:25
Speaker 1: And that was the day that Johnny Thunders was found
1:28
Speaker 1: dead in a New Orleans hotel, his money, guitars, and
1:32
Speaker 1: clothes gone and the rest of the story already beginning
1:36
Speaker 1: to write itself. On this episode rock and Roll myths,
1:42
Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecies, Heartbreakers, Junkies, and Johnny Thunders.
1:48
Speaker 2: I'm Jake Brennan.
1:50
Speaker 1: In this this disgrace slant. When you think of a
2:17
Speaker 1: musical icon who was the walking, talking definition of how
2:21
Speaker 1: rock and roll looks and sounds and feels, which is
2:24
Speaker 1: to say, raw, switchblade sharp and effortlessly cool, and who
2:29
Speaker 1: also possessed both street tough swagger and deep vulnerability, you
2:34
Speaker 1: think of Johnny Thunders. He's your favorite rock and rollers,
2:38
Speaker 1: favorite rock and roller, whether you're down with Joe Strummer,
2:41
Speaker 1: Nikki six, Paul Westerberg, the Cults, Billy duffy Ear, social distortions,
2:46
Speaker 1: Mike Ness first in The New York Dolls and later
2:50
Speaker 1: in The Heartbreakers. In his own solo career, Johnny Thunder's
2:55
Speaker 1: distilled rebellion attitude and god given musicality down to a
2:59
Speaker 1: high I proof red hot essence. But one of the
3:04
Speaker 1: reasons that Johnny Thunders was this mythic avatar was because
3:09
Speaker 1: he embodied the whole package of rock and roll, the good,
3:13
Speaker 1: the bad, and the ugly. He was an addict he
3:17
Speaker 1: was self destructive, and at the age of thirty eight,
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Speaker 1: he was dead. Chapter one. The body in Room thirty seven.
3:31
Speaker 1: The Saint Peter House hotel, these days known as the
3:34
Speaker 1: Inn on Saint Peter sits on the corner of Saint
3:38
Speaker 1: Peter in Burgundy Streets, in the heart of the French
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Speaker 1: Quarter in New Orleans. Built in the year eighteen oh five,
3:45
Speaker 1: it's a quintessential Crescent City building with Spanish style architecture
3:49
Speaker 1: and a wrap around second floor balcony. It was here
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Speaker 1: on the afternoon of Tuesday, April twenty third, nineteen ninety one,
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Speaker 1: that housekeeper Mildred Coleman was going from room to room
4:01
Speaker 1: making her usual rounds, swapping out towels and trash bags
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Speaker 1: and so on. At three point thirty she arrived in
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Speaker 1: Room thirty seven. She knocked on the door. There was
4:13
Speaker 1: no answer. The room number stuck out in her mind
4:16
Speaker 1: because earlier that morning, at around eight am, the front
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Speaker 1: desk clerk had called Room thirty seven after a series
4:22
Speaker 1: of loud, disturbing noises. The occupant had answered and the
4:27
Speaker 1: noises had ceased, But now there was an absence of
4:31
Speaker 1: sound coming from inside the room. Mildred knocked again and nothing. Now,
4:36
Speaker 1: this wasn't unusual. Hotel guests were in and out at
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Speaker 1: all times of the day and night. So she pulled
4:41
Speaker 1: a key from her pocket, slid it into the lock,
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Speaker 1: turned the handle, and pushed the door open. The rank
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Speaker 1: smell of sweat hit her nose first, and there was
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Speaker 1: something else too, something rancid, but she couldn't put her
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Speaker 1: finger on it. The room was a mess, the sheet's
4:59
Speaker 1: been ripped for the and what appeared to be empty
5:02
Speaker 1: prescription pill bottles were strewn across the floor. And then
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Speaker 1: Mildred saw him, the occupant of Room thirty seven one,
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Speaker 1: John Gonzale aka Johnny Thunders. He was lying on the floor,
5:17
Speaker 1: stuffed halfway under the dresser. His body was bent into
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Speaker 1: a shape like the letter U. Mildred gasped instinctively, throwing
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Speaker 1: her hand up to cover her mouth, and the next
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Speaker 1: thing she knew, she was screaming. Across the street from
5:37
Speaker 1: the Saint Peter House, singer songwriter Willie Deville, formerly of
5:41
Speaker 1: CBGB Mainstay's mate, Deville, sat on a stoop outside his apartment,
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Speaker 1: strumming an acoustic guitar. Just one year prior, Willy had
5:49
Speaker 1: beaten Johnny to his dream of coming to New Orleans
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Speaker 1: making an R and B record with local musicians. But
5:55
Speaker 1: now it was Johnny's turn to beat Willie. Johnny Thunders
5:58
Speaker 1: over here, burning out while Willie Deville merely faded away.
6:02
Speaker 1: Willie watched as police cars began flooding the corner outside
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Speaker 1: the hotel. A short while later, the cops carried Johnny's
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Speaker 1: body out. Willie had seen a lot of things, but
6:12
Speaker 1: he'd never seen a body contorted into a shape like
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Speaker 1: a pretzel before. It was so undignified. But Willy knew
6:20
Speaker 1: his friend deserved more, and he also knew that rock
6:23
Speaker 1: and roll was nothing without its myths. So when the
6:26
Speaker 1: local press started to sniff around when they asked questions,
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Speaker 1: Willie Deville lied and told them that Johnny had died
6:33
Speaker 1: with his guitar in his hands. In reality, though Johnny
6:37
Speaker 1: Thunder's guitar was gone, Johnny had been robbed blind, so
6:43
Speaker 1: it appeared. But New Orleans PD they didn't care about
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Speaker 1: a dead junkie's missing stuff. All they were interested in
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Speaker 1: was closing the case and closing it fast.
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Speaker 2: So that's what they did.
6:57
Speaker 1: Six days later, on April twenty ninth, the City Corners
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Speaker 1: Office investigator John Gagliano told the Associated Press that Johnny
7:04
Speaker 1: Thunders had died of an overdose due to the quantity
7:07
Speaker 1: of methadone and cocaine found in his body. In their eyes,
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Speaker 1: it was open and shut. A drug fiend is as
7:14
Speaker 1: a drug fiend does, and all of that, and some
7:18
Speaker 1: of Johnny's friends, like Willie Deville across the street with
7:20
Speaker 1: his guitar, weren't all that surprised. For others, however, not
7:24
Speaker 1: only was the CoP's conclusion wrong, it had all the
7:28
Speaker 1: signs of a cover up. And that's when the truth
7:31
Speaker 1: came calling. Dede Ramone picked up the phone while scratching
7:41
Speaker 1: away at his BedHead. His bleary eyes could hardly make
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Speaker 1: out the time of the clock. Yeah, he snarled into
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Speaker 1: the receiver. Dede. A voice was saying, it's Stevie. At
7:52
Speaker 1: this Dede Ramone sobered up a bit enough to comprehend
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Speaker 1: what Stevie was about.
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Speaker 2: To tell him.
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Speaker 1: Stevie was the other guitarist in Johnny Thunder's a touring
8:02
Speaker 1: band at the time of Johnny's death, and Deede knew
8:05
Speaker 1: he was hurting. Dede, for one, had his own complicated
8:10
Speaker 1: relationship with Johnny thunders over the years. Years ago, that
8:14
Speaker 1: little shit had stolen d De's song Chinese Rocks, made
8:17
Speaker 1: it his own, and then when he was deep into
8:19
Speaker 1: the throes of junkie addiction, Johnny thunders well, he reverted
8:23
Speaker 1: to junkie compulsions like stealing Dde's shit so that he
8:26
Speaker 1: could sell it for more drugs. And at some point
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Speaker 1: d d Ramone had just had enough, so he poured
8:33
Speaker 1: Dreno or chlorox or some chemical cleaning agent he couldn't
8:37
Speaker 1: exactly remember. He poured it all over Johnny's stuff, and
8:39
Speaker 1: then he pissed on Johnny's clothes, and then the piece
8:42
Speaker 1: there was the stalls. He took Johnny's guitar, one of
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Speaker 1: those cheap less Paul Juniors that he loved so much,
8:47
Speaker 1: and he broke that fucker in half. These were the
8:52
Speaker 1: thoughts running through d de Ramon's head as Stevie was
8:55
Speaker 1: telling him all about what had happened at the hotel
8:57
Speaker 1: in New Orleans. That when the cops got to Johnny's room,
9:00
Speaker 1: all they found were empty bottles of methadone and a
9:02
Speaker 1: single syringe floating in the toilet. Everything else was gone,
9:06
Speaker 1: his guitars, those nice silk suits that he bought on
9:09
Speaker 1: the road, his drugs, his passport, and here was the
9:13
Speaker 1: real kicker. Thousands of dollars in cash just disappeared. We're
9:18
Speaker 1: talking ten, maybe twenty thousand dollars total. And the pieces
9:22
Speaker 1: of trash who stole all those things, These vultures, disguised
9:26
Speaker 1: as so called friends. They made Johnny Thunders their mark.
9:30
Speaker 1: As soon as he rolled into town wearing those nice threads,
9:33
Speaker 1: his pockets lined with money, they took him out, stroked
9:37
Speaker 1: his ego, This punk poet laureate who never really got
9:40
Speaker 1: his due, especially here in the States, but he got
9:43
Speaker 1: it that night. And once they gave it to him.
9:46
Speaker 1: Once they lulled him into a doped up complacency with
9:49
Speaker 1: hero worship and drugs, that's when they went in for
9:52
Speaker 1: the kill. It was true what the cops said. Johnny
9:55
Speaker 1: did die of an overdose, but the overdose wasn't delivered
9:59
Speaker 1: by his own hand, and he was given a hot
10:02
Speaker 1: shot by some thieving degenerates. To put it plainly, Johnny
10:07
Speaker 1: Thunders was murdered. Chapter two, Born to Lose, Tom Petty
10:40
Speaker 1: and the Heartbreakers. Who the fuck are those guys? Were
10:44
Speaker 1: the heartbreakers? Jerry Nolan, one of Johnny's closest friends and
10:49
Speaker 1: his drummer, first in the New York Dolls and now
10:52
Speaker 1: a member of Johnny's new band, the Heartbreakers. The original
10:56
Speaker 1: Heartbreakers that is not that big toothy Tom Petty, his
11:00
Speaker 1: so called Heartbreakers. Jerry Nolan. He was reading all about
11:04
Speaker 1: this Tom Petty character in the paper and getting more
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Speaker 1: and more pissed off with every word. It was nineteen
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Speaker 1: seventy six. Johnny Thunder's Heartbreakers were everything that Tom Petty's
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Speaker 1: Heartbreakers were not.
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Speaker 2: Tom Petty was.
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Speaker 1: The corporate rock dream. Johnny Thunders was the punk junkie nightmare.
11:23
Speaker 1: No one wanted to sign Johnny Thunders and his band.
11:26
Speaker 1: They were dopers and dropouts and weren't to be trusted.
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Speaker 1: They missed shows, they shot heroin. Never mind, they were
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Speaker 1: playing some of the most thrilling rock and roll in
11:34
Speaker 1: the world at the time. As one critic wrote in
11:36
Speaker 1: the UK after seeing a Heartbreakers show, quote, the band
11:39
Speaker 1: plays rock and roll like guns, fire bullets, like steamrollers,
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Speaker 1: flat and tarmac like thunder, rolls like trees, fall like
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Speaker 1: hell like you've never heard before. Unquote. It's ironic because
11:51
Speaker 1: besides the music, all the other things that made Johnny
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Speaker 1: Thunders and the Heartbreakers super authentic were the same things
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Speaker 1: that made them a bad investment. They were, as Johnny
12:01
Speaker 1: sang in one of his trademark songs, born to Lose,
12:05
Speaker 1: Tom Petty clearly could not relate Tom Petty, Jerry Nolan said,
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Speaker 1: was born to be punched. Fuck it, Johnny said, let's
12:14
Speaker 1: call ourselves the junkies instead. Are you fucking kidding man?
12:18
Speaker 1: We'll never get airplay with a name like that. Who
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Speaker 1: needs airplay? Johnny left, I'd rather get a reaction, getting
12:26
Speaker 1: a reaction, getting attention. That was the true meaning of
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Speaker 1: rock and roll in the eyes of Johnny Thunders. And
12:32
Speaker 1: when attention finally came, it didn't come from America, but
12:35
Speaker 1: instead from across the pond, first in the form of
12:39
Speaker 1: the Sex Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren, who got the Heartbreakers
12:42
Speaker 1: booked on a tour with The Pistols and The Clash,
12:44
Speaker 1: and then via Chris Stamp and Kim Lambert, the Who's
12:48
Speaker 1: former managers who signed the Heartbreakers to their labeled track records.
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Speaker 1: Johnny and Jerry, along with guitarist Walter Lore and bassist
12:56
Speaker 1: Billy Rath, who'd replaced original member Richard Hell, soon found
12:59
Speaker 1: them in a London recording studio making a record. That record, LAMF,
13:06
Speaker 1: which was a notorious New York City graffiti tag that
13:08
Speaker 1: Warren gangs used to scare each other off with and
13:11
Speaker 1: which stood for like a motherfucker, which is also permanently
13:14
Speaker 1: inked on my arm. But I digress. LAMF should have
13:17
Speaker 1: been one of the biggest records of the newly emerging
13:19
Speaker 1: punk rock movement when it was released in nineteen seventy seven.
13:23
Speaker 1: I mean it is one of the greatest, but it's
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Speaker 1: not as ubiquitous as records by the Ramones, the Clash
13:29
Speaker 1: and the Pistols. And there are a few reasons for
13:31
Speaker 1: this one. The band wrestled over how the record should sound,
13:35
Speaker 1: which resulted in a really muddy mix when it was
13:38
Speaker 1: first pressed two LAMF never got a US release. In fact,
13:43
Speaker 1: it wasn't issued stateside until just a few years ago.
13:47
Speaker 1: In three Track Records went bankrupt shortly after the album
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Speaker 1: hit store shelves. Unlike Tom Petty's Heartbreakers, Johnny Thunder's Heartbreakers
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Speaker 1: did not survive. They were over before Tom's second album
14:00
Speaker 1: even dropped, and so Johnny Gonzale, a one time teenage
14:05
Speaker 1: baseball prodigy from queens who gave the cold shoulder to
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Speaker 1: Major league scouts so that he could court a life
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Speaker 1: out on the skids, where self sabotage was a badge
14:13
Speaker 1: of honor, a boy who re christened himself Johnny Thunders,
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Speaker 1: anome de rock stolen either from a DC Comics character
14:20
Speaker 1: or a Kink song, depending on which version of the
14:22
Speaker 1: story speaks to you today. The Great Johnny Thunders made
14:25
Speaker 1: his equally great solo debut album, So Alone, in nineteen
14:29
Speaker 1: seventy eight, at the age of twenty five. So Alone
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Speaker 1: is tremendous stuff. It's got instant classic original songs like
14:38
Speaker 1: you Can't Put your Arms Around a Memory. It's got
14:40
Speaker 1: covers of tunes by surf and girl groups like the
14:43
Speaker 1: Chantas and the Shangri Las, and it's got supporting performances
14:47
Speaker 1: by who's who of rockers at the time, the Pretender's
14:49
Speaker 1: Chrissy Hine, the Sexpistols, Steve Jones and Paul Cook, Did
14:53
Speaker 1: Lizzie's Phil Linet, and Steve Marriott from The Small Faces
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Speaker 1: in Humble Pie. But like Lamf before it, So Alone
15:01
Speaker 1: never got released in the States, and despite the noise
15:04
Speaker 1: being made out on the margins by punks like Johnny
15:06
Speaker 1: Thunders nineteen seventy eight was actually ruled by the Beg's
15:11
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Fever in Billy Joel's fifty second Street, at
15:15
Speaker 1: least in America. Whatever America could have its Tom Petty,
15:20
Speaker 1: it's Billy fucking Joel, and it could have John Travolta
15:23
Speaker 1: peacocking down the streets of Brooklyn. Johnny Thunders meanwhile, went
15:28
Speaker 1: looking for action in a part of the world that
15:30
Speaker 1: paid him some well deserved respect, and that paid him
15:33
Speaker 1: in cash. And it was there that Johnny wasn't just
15:37
Speaker 1: a hot ticket, he was a front page news nineteen
15:44
Speaker 1: eighty two, Stockholm suite. Johnny Thunders tried to ration out
15:49
Speaker 1: the dope so that it would last him three four
15:51
Speaker 1: days at least. But this time, just like every other time,
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Speaker 1: he couldn't help himself. He did it all, and doing
15:59
Speaker 1: it all doesn't mean he to too much. He knew
16:01
Speaker 1: what he could tolerate, exactly how much would get him
16:04
Speaker 1: off without taking him too far over the edge. But
16:08
Speaker 1: now as the plane hit the tarmac, he was no
16:10
Speaker 1: longer holding, and none of the other guys in the
16:13
Speaker 1: band were either. He downed the last of the methadone
16:16
Speaker 1: like a cold cherry coke. And speaking of coke, coke,
16:19
Speaker 1: the powdered kind that was gone too. Someone had told
16:23
Speaker 1: him that Sweden put little stashes of valume in the
16:25
Speaker 1: medical emergency boxes on airplanes. So now he and his
16:29
Speaker 1: bass player at the moment, Luigi Scortia, were trying to
16:32
Speaker 1: break open the little red box like a couple of
16:34
Speaker 1: dope sit prospectors at the head of a rumored gold mine.
16:38
Speaker 1: And they were doing this despite the very loud and
16:40
Speaker 1: urgent protesting of the stewardesses who were reminding Johnny and
16:44
Speaker 1: Luigi and broken English, the passengers were not allowed to
16:47
Speaker 1: tamper with the emergency kits. The stewardess has figured something
16:52
Speaker 1: like this would happen. Johnny Thunders had been in the
16:54
Speaker 1: country for only a few days and already he was
16:57
Speaker 1: the talk of the town, as they say, but not
16:59
Speaker 1: in a good way. The local papers set it all
17:02
Speaker 1: A drugged human wreck, read one such headline, and stark
17:06
Speaker 1: black faunt and another simply said burnt out wasted. Just
17:12
Speaker 1: days earlier, Johnny had performed on a popular primetime Swedish
17:15
Speaker 1: television show.
17:17
Speaker 2: He showed up three hours late to.
17:19
Speaker 1: The taping, only to stumble around the stage, slithering, slouching,
17:22
Speaker 1: sliding into the audience and slurring his words. And there
17:26
Speaker 1: was a tinge of resentment, and every single word he
17:28
Speaker 1: spoke and every movie made as if he'd forgotten that
17:31
Speaker 1: this country, this show, this packed house, unlike some other
17:34
Speaker 1: places back home, they all actually wanted him there. It
17:38
Speaker 1: was like he looked out at the crowd and suddenly
17:40
Speaker 1: was somewhere else. The punk junkie nightmare was never ending,
17:46
Speaker 1: and now here was Johnny Thunders, the villain and the victim,
17:50
Speaker 1: stepping off the plane in Stockholm, thinking he was about
17:53
Speaker 1: to go play another show, only to walk into the
17:56
Speaker 1: arms of several impatient police officers who had been no
18:00
Speaker 1: id ahead of time by the concerned stewardesses. Johnny had
18:05
Speaker 1: no dope, not even that elusive, fabled stash of value,
18:09
Speaker 1: and if they were taking him away, then the tour
18:12
Speaker 1: was canceled for sure, which meant Lesto coming in. All while,
18:17
Speaker 1: that other more famous heartbreaker, Tom Petty, was writing a
18:20
Speaker 1: big video hit on the Idiot Box with his song
18:23
Speaker 1: you Got Lucky. Johnny laughed just thinking about it. He
18:28
Speaker 1: had Tom, You're one lucky fuck one lucky MTV approved
18:33
Speaker 1: fuck and Johnny Johnny was born to lose. That wasn't
18:41
Speaker 1: just a song or a manifesto. It was a prophecy,
18:45
Speaker 1: but was it a self fulfilling one? As the weeks
18:49
Speaker 1: and months and years rolled on. That's what audiences wanted
18:52
Speaker 1: to know, and that's what drew them to the shows.
18:56
Speaker 1: More than Johnny's talent, or his legend or any of it.
19:00
Speaker 1: They wanted to be there when it happened, watching it
19:03
Speaker 1: like a car wreck in slow motion, Watched Johnny Lou's control,
19:08
Speaker 1: watched Johnny fall down, Watch Johnny die, We'll be right
19:17
Speaker 1: back after this. We're We're, We're Chapter three, Hard Times
19:27
Speaker 1: and the Big Easy. Johnny Thunders was in Japan, but
19:33
Speaker 1: he was dreaming of New Orleans. He was playing his
19:36
Speaker 1: friend Willie Deville's latest album, Victory Mixture on repeat on
19:40
Speaker 1: the tour bus. Willy made the record in New Orleans
19:44
Speaker 1: with local legends like Doctor John Alan Hussaint and the Meters.
19:48
Speaker 1: You never know that the guy singing these tunes got
19:51
Speaker 1: to start playing grimy New York institutions like Maxis Kansas City.
19:55
Speaker 1: Willy sounded like the real article, and what he created
19:58
Speaker 1: with this record was a exactly the sort of thing
20:01
Speaker 1: that Johnny had wanted to do for some time now,
20:04
Speaker 1: but Johnny had no time at the present. He was
20:07
Speaker 1: preparing to record an album of sixties cover songs with
20:10
Speaker 1: some Japanese musicians, and he had plans for an acoustic
20:13
Speaker 1: album as well. He continued to use but once again
20:17
Speaker 1: as supply had run out and he became so dope
20:20
Speaker 1: sick that he had to be checked into a hospital
20:22
Speaker 1: in Tokyo. If doctors there saw the lump on his neck,
20:26
Speaker 1: they didn't say anything. People were used to seeing all
20:29
Speaker 1: kinds of abnormalities on Johnny's skin. Heartbreaker Walter Lore once
20:34
Speaker 1: said that Johnny's arms and legs were covered in so
20:37
Speaker 1: many track marks that they looked like pizza slices, which
20:41
Speaker 1: means that some strange new lump was going to have
20:43
Speaker 1: to work overtime to really stand out as a problem. Besides,
20:48
Speaker 1: Johnny had other problems like this need for a fix.
20:52
Speaker 2: He hopped a.
20:52
Speaker 1: Plane to London, picked up a prescription of methadone that
20:55
Speaker 1: was waiting for him, and then it was on to Germany,
20:58
Speaker 1: where he was booked for a couple of shows. When
21:00
Speaker 1: all was said and done, he had a decent amount
21:03
Speaker 1: of cash on his person, somewhere between ten and twenty grand,
21:07
Speaker 1: and he also had a little time off, and as
21:09
Speaker 1: the musical Gumbo of Willie Deville played once more on
21:12
Speaker 1: the tour bus's stereo, Johnny knew exactly where he was
21:16
Speaker 1: going to go next. By the time Johnny Thunders arrived
21:21
Speaker 1: in New Orleans for what would be the last night
21:23
Speaker 1: of his life, the evening of April twenty second, nineteen
21:25
Speaker 1: ninety one, he was both everywhere and nowhere. His style,
21:30
Speaker 1: his swagger, even just the way he held the guitar
21:34
Speaker 1: was reflected across the entirety of the rock spectrum, from
21:38
Speaker 1: Guns n' roses is he straddling to Johnny Marv the
21:40
Speaker 1: Smiths to a veritable Rogues gallery of big hair having
21:44
Speaker 1: charp mainstays like Motley Crue and Bon Jovi. But although
21:48
Speaker 1: his influence ran deep, it ran silent too. Few knew
21:53
Speaker 1: that Johnny Thunders was such an inspiration on nineteen eighties
21:55
Speaker 1: and nineteen nineties rock and roll, and fewer still knew
21:58
Speaker 1: his name. It wasn't for lack of trying. At one
22:02
Speaker 1: point he formed a new group called Gang War with
22:05
Speaker 1: Wayne Kramer, the MC five, who was fresh out of
22:08
Speaker 1: federal prison at the time, and later he assembled another
22:12
Speaker 1: group called Kosinostra with a few of his former heartbreakers,
22:16
Speaker 1: and neither band lasted. The simple reason this brother Wayne Kramer,
22:20
Speaker 1: once put it was due to the fact that quote
22:23
Speaker 1: Johnny was impossible to work with because he had another
22:26
Speaker 1: job that was more important Unquote. Then that other job
22:30
Speaker 1: was his dope habit. It kept him scrambling from playing
22:34
Speaker 1: to plane, gig to gig, one cash payment to the next,
22:38
Speaker 1: always cash. It kept him ignoring the sores, the lumps,
22:42
Speaker 1: the pains that had at this point become commonplace. And
22:46
Speaker 1: when the money stopped coming in for a spell, when
22:48
Speaker 1: he blew it all on another cold, sweaty palmful of
22:51
Speaker 1: handshake drugs, he got desperate, and desperation made him ugly.
22:57
Speaker 1: It's been alleged that he once hunted down as a
22:59
Speaker 1: strange wife Julie, who had long since bailed with their
23:02
Speaker 1: two kids and who was also pregnant with a third,
23:05
Speaker 1: and when he found her, he beat her up and
23:07
Speaker 1: stole her welfare money.
23:09
Speaker 2: That's how low.
23:10
Speaker 1: His other job made him go, and tonight Johnny was
23:15
Speaker 1: going even lower. Tonight he was going to find out
23:19
Speaker 1: that there really was a bottom, and when he hit it,
23:22
Speaker 1: there was no coming back. Johnny thunder Is bellied up
23:27
Speaker 1: to the bar and ordered a brandy. He could hear
23:30
Speaker 1: someone singing outside, some random reveler out there in the
23:33
Speaker 1: middle of the street. From elsewhere. The strains of a
23:36
Speaker 1: Dixieland jazz band floated on in the wind. That's what
23:40
Speaker 1: he loved about this town. Music ran through New Orleans's blood.
23:44
Speaker 1: New York was similar, but his hometown had become hazardous
23:48
Speaker 1: to his health. He knew all the right places to
23:50
Speaker 1: get all the wrong things in New York, and he
23:53
Speaker 1: knew exactly who to talk to for a bendal of
23:55
Speaker 1: this or a vial of that. Here in New Orleans,
23:59
Speaker 1: like in Japan in Germany, the temptation wasn't so easy
24:02
Speaker 1: to locate, or so went the magical thinking of the
24:06
Speaker 1: punk junkie nightmare. Because temptation vice bad decisions of all kinds.
24:12
Speaker 1: Johnny attracted these things like a magnet. The all black
24:15
Speaker 1: city was wearing only emphasized his ghastly white skin, and
24:19
Speaker 1: the sweat running down the sides of his gaunt face
24:22
Speaker 1: told a story of desire, submission, and detachment. He turned
24:26
Speaker 1: to his left, and then to his right, and here
24:29
Speaker 1: was temptation and vice sitting on either side of him
24:32
Speaker 1: at the bar. Here were two brothers, Mark and Michael Rix,
24:38
Speaker 1: two locals Johnny had met when he checked into the
24:40
Speaker 1: Saint Peter House Hotel. Two guys now getting shit faced
24:44
Speaker 1: with the flush, Johnny thunders they weren't alone. The brother's friend, Stacy,
24:49
Speaker 1: Michael's X, came along to see where the knight would
24:52
Speaker 1: take them. She had seventy bucks burning a hole in
24:55
Speaker 1: her pocket from turning tricks earlier that day on the
24:57
Speaker 1: seatier side of the French Corner, the same side they
25:00
Speaker 1: were all on. Now, decide where you could get whatever
25:03
Speaker 1: you wanted for a couple of bucks, For a few
25:06
Speaker 1: bucks more, you could get more than you ever thought possible.
25:10
Speaker 1: Johnny knocked back the rest of his brandy, slammed the
25:12
Speaker 1: glass down on the dirty bar in front of him,
25:15
Speaker 1: and turned to his new friends. Where to next Pat
25:18
Speaker 1: O'Brien's Kagan's. The night was young. In fact, in Johnny's
25:24
Speaker 1: line of work, there was only night. Hours later, once
25:30
Speaker 1: the sun had come up and the shadows of temptation
25:33
Speaker 1: advice had disappeared for yet another day, Johnny Thunders was
25:37
Speaker 1: dead almost immediately. There was pushback on the official party
25:41
Speaker 1: line provided by New Orleans police that, based on the
25:45
Speaker 1: amount of methadone and cocaine and Johnny's body, it was
25:47
Speaker 1: a clear overdose, which is what the City Corner's Office
25:51
Speaker 1: investigator John Gagliano told the public at a press conference
25:55
Speaker 1: six days after Johnny's death. For many in Johnny's circle,
25:59
Speaker 1: including his one time guitarist Stevie Clayson, who allegedly called
26:02
Speaker 1: did Ramon shortly after Johnny's body was found, the cops
26:06
Speaker 1: were full of shit. Reported sightings of the Ricks brothers,
26:09
Speaker 1: Mark and Michael walking around New Orleans wearing Johnny's clothes
26:14
Speaker 1: only fueled the going theory that Johnny had been given
26:17
Speaker 1: a hot shot by low level street criminals so that
26:20
Speaker 1: they could rob him. But Mark and Michael Rix have
26:23
Speaker 1: been interviewed by the police and were subsequently released from custody.
26:28
Speaker 1: In The Times, Picky un stated in an article the
26:30
Speaker 1: contrary to the word on the street, not everything was
26:33
Speaker 1: taken from Johnny's room. In fact, some of his guitars,
26:36
Speaker 1: as well as some of his cash, were still there.
26:40
Speaker 1: Weeks later. However, on May eighteenth, the City of New
26:44
Speaker 1: Orleans released their full autopsy in toxicology results, and what
26:48
Speaker 1: was found turned the whole thing upside down. Now, those
26:55
Speaker 1: official results did prove that Johnny had tested positive for
26:59
Speaker 1: methadone and kociine, but the revelation here was that there
27:03
Speaker 1: were only small amounts of both, nowhere near the levels
27:07
Speaker 1: that would have been necessary to kill him. By releasing
27:10
Speaker 1: the full results, the city had effectively contradicted itself, rendering
27:14
Speaker 1: John Gagliano's conclusion of overdose to be nothing short of impossible.
27:20
Speaker 1: So if it wasn't a hot shot, then how was
27:23
Speaker 1: Johnny thunders murdered. LSD say he was drunk, a little
27:30
Speaker 1: fucked up on methadone and coke and then was knowingly
27:34
Speaker 1: or unknowingly given a dose of acid. The interaction between
27:38
Speaker 1: the drugs could have caused him to panic, his heart
27:41
Speaker 1: to race, triggering some sort of cardiovascular stress that pushed
27:46
Speaker 1: him over the edge again. According to De d Ramone,
27:50
Speaker 1: the LSD hot shot, for lack of a better term,
27:53
Speaker 1: is what Stevie Classen told him had been administered to
27:56
Speaker 1: Johnny that night, and this theory was stoked when just
28:00
Speaker 1: a short while later, in early nineteen ninety two New
28:03
Speaker 1: Orleans cops picked up Michael Rix, who was charged and
28:06
Speaker 1: convicted a first degree robbery after he pulled a gun
28:10
Speaker 1: on some Taurus in the French Quarter who had refused
28:12
Speaker 1: to buy drugs offer. And what exactly was Michael Rix
28:16
Speaker 1: pushing at the time of his arrest?
28:20
Speaker 2: LSD all Right, guys.
28:33
Speaker 1: Earlier in this episode, I briefly mentioned Gang War, the
28:36
Speaker 1: doom punk slash rock and roll hybrid band that Johnny
28:39
Speaker 1: Thunders formed with Wayne Kramer, the MC five. We didn't
28:42
Speaker 1: have enough time here in this full episode to get
28:44
Speaker 1: into the story of Gang War, how they came to be,
28:46
Speaker 1: why they burned out so fast, and why they had
28:49
Speaker 1: to be escorted by police out of the city of Boston.
28:52
Speaker 1: And just why on earth the guy like Wayne Kramer
28:54
Speaker 1: who had just gotten out of prison and was looking
28:56
Speaker 1: for a second chance, Just why would he hang that
28:59
Speaker 1: second chance around a gun that so many could see
29:01
Speaker 1: was already gone. You can hear all about this in
29:04
Speaker 1: this week's brand new mini episode of Disgray Sand, but
29:07
Speaker 1: to do that, you have to be an all Access member.
29:09
Speaker 1: Just go to disgrayslandpod dot com to learn more and
29:11
Speaker 1: to sign up and start listening right now. All right,
29:14
Speaker 1: let's get back to our story on Johnny Thunders.
29:19
Speaker 2: Chapter four, Pirate Love.
29:23
Speaker 1: When he died, Johnny Thunders was still the living embodiment
29:26
Speaker 1: of the rock and roller, only now, instead of representing
29:29
Speaker 1: the promise of rebellion and liberation that lie at the
29:32
Speaker 1: core of the rock and roll heart, he was the
29:34
Speaker 1: flip side of that particular coin. He was the haggard,
29:38
Speaker 1: pitiful result of all the rebelliousness, the inevitable tragedy, the
29:43
Speaker 1: very thing that every teenager's mother feared would come to
29:46
Speaker 1: pass when their boy ran off to join a band
29:49
Speaker 1: on the Lower East Side or wherever, a cautionary tale
29:52
Speaker 1: dumped on the doorstep of history by the addictions at Plate.
29:57
Speaker 1: But there was more to Johnny Thunders than that, and
30:00
Speaker 1: there it was in his autopsy. Specifically, the autopsy report
30:05
Speaker 1: revealed that Johnny had been suffering from cirrhosis from lymphoma,
30:08
Speaker 1: a pulmonary edema, and leukemia. The fact that Johnny Thunders
30:13
Speaker 1: had leukemia was later confirmed by one of his final girlfriends,
30:18
Speaker 1: a Swedish hairdresser named Suzanne Blonquist. Johnny and Suzanne had
30:22
Speaker 1: one daughter together, and shortly after her birth in nineteen
30:26
Speaker 1: eighty seven, Suzanne said that Johnny was diagnosed with the
30:29
Speaker 1: deadly disease. This would explain the lump on his neck,
30:33
Speaker 1: and honestly, it explains what happened in room thirty seven
30:37
Speaker 1: of the Saint Peter House Hotel in New Orleans. Johnny's body,
30:41
Speaker 1: his immune system had been systematically weakened by illness, by cancer,
30:46
Speaker 1: and by chronic hard drug use, and so the most
30:49
Speaker 1: likely scenario is not that he was given a debilitating
30:53
Speaker 1: dose of LSD that led to his death, but simply
30:56
Speaker 1: that his body finally gave out, helped along by non
30:59
Speaker 1: lee full amounts of methadone and cocaine. Was he hanging
31:03
Speaker 1: out with certain members of the New Orleans underworld who
31:05
Speaker 1: may have stolen from a memphro who took his last breath? Yes?
31:09
Speaker 1: Did the cops use the overdose angle to investigate a
31:12
Speaker 1: little less than they should have? Probably, But was Johnny
31:16
Speaker 1: Thunders murdered? No? Johnny Thunders was consumed by his lifestyle,
31:22
Speaker 1: the bad and the good, walking the walk, walking that
31:26
Speaker 1: razor's edge between self mythology and self destruction. That's where
31:30
Speaker 1: he lived and what he sang about in songs like
31:33
Speaker 1: One Track Mind and pirate love, which next to born
31:36
Speaker 1: to Lose was the unofficial Johnny Thunder's anthem for those
31:39
Speaker 1: who refused to compromise themselves creatively or authentically. The conspiracy
31:45
Speaker 1: theories that said he was murdered only proved that others
31:48
Speaker 1: expected him to go out in a blaze, a knife,
31:51
Speaker 1: a needle, a gun, a hotshot, something dramatic and something
31:56
Speaker 1: befitting the punk junkie nightmare he turned his life into.
32:00
Speaker 1: The truth, however, is much quieter than all that, and
32:04
Speaker 1: it's much sadder too. His body just couldn't carry the
32:08
Speaker 1: weight of his myth any longer. And in the end,
32:12
Speaker 1: that's the part that couldn't be stolen, Like his clothes
32:15
Speaker 1: and his guitars and his money. Johnny Thunders died in
32:19
Speaker 1: Room thirty seven, in disgrace and so alone. But the
32:24
Speaker 1: myth he created walk right out the door like a.
32:28
Speaker 3: Motherfucker' Jake Brennan, and this his disgraceland.
32:48
Speaker 1: All right, guys, thanks for riding along with us and
32:50
Speaker 1: Johnny Thunder's here.
32:51
Speaker 2: This is a weird story.
32:53
Speaker 1: From just one of the greatest eras of rock and roll,
32:57
Speaker 1: the first era.
32:58
Speaker 2: Of punk rock.
33:00
Speaker 1: You can only listen to one generation punk rock band
33:02
Speaker 1: on the next road trip you take. Who's it gonna be?
33:05
Speaker 1: Is it gonna be Johnny Thunders and the New York Dolls?
33:07
Speaker 1: Is it gonna be the Sex Pistols? Is it gonna
33:09
Speaker 1: be The Clash? Who else?
33:11
Speaker 2: Television talking heads?
33:13
Speaker 1: Those seventies sort of first wave punk rock groups. Which
33:16
Speaker 1: one do you ride hardist? For? Give me call six
33:18
Speaker 1: one seven nine oh six six sixty three eight. Let
33:20
Speaker 1: me know which first generation punk artists you love the
33:23
Speaker 1: most and why? Hit me up voicemail and text email
33:26
Speaker 1: at Disgrace lamb pod. Guys, you want more Disgrace and
33:29
Speaker 1: you want to add free Disgraceland. You want those extra
33:31
Speaker 1: mini episodes like this story we have on Johnny and
33:33
Speaker 1: Wayne Cramer coming up. Gotta get the mini episode content.
33:36
Speaker 1: Gotta go to Patreon, Gotta go to Apple Podcast. To
33:38
Speaker 1: become an all access member of Disgraceland. You get ad
33:41
Speaker 1: free listening, you get extra exclusive content. Go to disgrace
33:44
Speaker 1: lampod dot com sign up. All right here comes from credits.
33:51
Speaker 1: Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly and is produced in
33:53
Speaker 1: partnership with Double Elvis. Credits for this episode can be
33:57
Speaker 1: found on the show notes page at disgracelampod dot dot com,
34:00
Speaker 1: Rate and review the show, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter,
34:03
Speaker 1: and Facebook at disgracelantpod and on YouTube at YouTube dot com,
34:08
Speaker 1: slash at Disgracelandpod, rock a Rolla, He's
34:16
Speaker 3: A bad down man.