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Killer Thriller: I Am Mary Jo Buttafuoco · Legally Brunette

0:00
Speaker 1: Today, we are talking about one of the most infamous
0:03
Speaker 1: crimes that continues to capture the public's imagination, and that
0:07
Speaker 1: is the shooting of Mary Joe Butafuco by an underage
0:12
Speaker 1: girl who was having an affair with her husband. This
0:15
Speaker 1: crime absolutely dominated the press. If you are unfamiliar with
0:19
Speaker 1: this case, Mary Joe Butifuco, a stay at home mother
0:23
Speaker 1: of two small kids, opened her front door and was
0:26
Speaker 1: shot in the head at her home in Massa Peak
0:29
Speaker 1: of New York by seventeen year old Amy Fisher, who
0:32
Speaker 1: was having a salacious relationship with Mary Joe's husband, Joey Buttafuco.
0:38
Speaker 1: Mary Joe sustained severe permanent injuries, including partial facial paralysis
0:43
Speaker 1: and deafness in one ear, and she still to this
0:47
Speaker 1: day has the bullet in her head. The case exploded nationally,
0:51
Speaker 1: with the press dubbing Amy the Long Island Lolita, and
0:55
Speaker 1: Joey denied the affair for years. Mary Joe stood by him,
0:58
Speaker 1: a choice that made her a target of public ridicule.
1:02
Speaker 1: I mean this family and Amy were on the cover
1:04
Speaker 1: of every magazine and newspaper. There were three TV movies
1:08
Speaker 1: made about the crime, and between one hundred and one
1:11
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five million people watched at least one
1:15
Speaker 1: of them. Scandal media had become dominant in mainstream culture
1:19
Speaker 1: at this time, and this story had everything obsession, stalking,
1:24
Speaker 1: a shocking act of violence, and a controversial plea deal
1:28
Speaker 1: that left Mary Joe stunned. Amy Roboc and TJ.
1:38
Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your Host Alisa Donovan.
1:45
Speaker 1: Today we are talking about Mary Joe Buttafuco and her story.
1:51
Speaker 1: And first I'm going to take you back with my
1:53
Speaker 1: producers here to nineteen ninety two when this all happened.
1:59
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting right out the gate that we're
2:01
Speaker 2: talking about the Mary Joe Budafuco story, because in nineteen
2:05
Speaker 2: ninety two we all were calling it the.
2:06
Speaker 1: Amy Fishy Fisher story.
2:09
Speaker 3: Yep.
2:09
Speaker 2: So I know we're going to talk today about the
2:12
Speaker 2: Lifetime movie that's coming out. Tell I know you've seen it.
2:14
Speaker 2: Tell us about it and why it's different from the
2:17
Speaker 2: two or three versions we knew from the nineties.
2:20
Speaker 1: Okay, So, first of all, it's pretty extraordinary. I have
2:24
Speaker 1: to say. It's the first time that we're hearing Mary
2:28
Speaker 1: Joe's story from her own mouth quite literally. Some of
2:32
Speaker 1: the film is her speaking directly to camera about her story,
2:37
Speaker 1: and then the other parts are re enactments with actors
2:40
Speaker 1: that drive the narrative. And I mean, I was I
2:46
Speaker 1: absolutely remember this case. I grew up thirty minutes from
2:50
Speaker 1: where this happened, so I was living in Manhattan at
2:53
Speaker 1: the time, but I grew up on Long Island right
2:56
Speaker 1: by there, and it just dominated everything. You not get
3:00
Speaker 1: away from this story.
3:02
Speaker 2: How did you feel about her Amy Fisher being nicknamed
3:05
Speaker 2: the Long Island Lolita? What did that do to somebody
3:09
Speaker 2: from Long Island?
3:10
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, nobody is gonna care. But I'm
3:14
Speaker 1: a huge Nabokov fan, so I loved the book Lolita,
3:19
Speaker 1: and I felt like, how dare they use this terminology
3:22
Speaker 1: in this regard? I mean, it's just despicable, is what
3:26
Speaker 1: I felt. But at the time, I was so young,
3:29
Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking about how she was being exploited in
3:33
Speaker 1: the process while also having made these horrific decisions, obviously,
3:38
Speaker 1: which are inexcusable.
3:40
Speaker 2: Do you think that that's why this story, this crime
3:44
Speaker 2: is still ever present in our memories because we are
3:49
Speaker 2: her age and it just was flabbergasting that some seventeen
3:53
Speaker 2: year old was dating this old man and then just
3:56
Speaker 2: tried to attack kill his wife.
4:01
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, if I think about it,
4:03
Speaker 1: like the age, I was probably a couple of years
4:05
Speaker 1: older than if it was nine ey, I was probably twenty,
4:08
Speaker 1: but certainly close enough in age. I think to me,
4:10
Speaker 1: I felt like I know these people's voices. I know
4:14
Speaker 1: these accents. I can imagine that guy who runs the shop,
4:19
Speaker 1: runs the autobody place. I can see this girl, I
4:22
Speaker 1: can see her in that outfit. I can see the
4:25
Speaker 1: things like I really went, oh my god, I know
4:29
Speaker 1: these people. It was absolutely crazy. And the fact that
4:36
Speaker 1: Mary joe you know this is what I think you
4:38
Speaker 1: know looking back now is really upsetting and unbelievable. Is
4:44
Speaker 1: that the story really became about Amy and Joey, and
4:48
Speaker 1: no one was talking about the woman who was the
4:50
Speaker 1: victim of this heinous crime. I mean, she opened the
4:54
Speaker 1: front door of her house and opened the door to
4:57
Speaker 1: Amy and thinks, here's this young girl who is not threatening,
5:01
Speaker 1: and then the girl shoots her in the head. It's
5:03
Speaker 1: completely crazy. One of the reasons for that.
5:06
Speaker 2: Is that in the nineties, after this case blew up,
5:12
Speaker 2: there were three different dramatizations of it. Who that stand
5:17
Speaker 2: out to me the Drew Barrymore version and the Alisa
5:19
Speaker 2: Milano version that aired on the same night on ABC
5:24
Speaker 2: and CBS with very big stars. So even though you
5:29
Speaker 2: could say Drew Barrymore is even a bigger star today,
5:32
Speaker 2: at the time she was a very big stars. Lana
5:35
Speaker 2: was coming off of Who's the Boss yep, very recognizable
5:38
Speaker 2: actors taking over and be portraying Amy Fisher, and both
5:42
Speaker 2: were from Amy's perspective, from her Amy Fisher story where
5:47
Speaker 2: Mary Joe but Ifuko is really just sort of the victim,
5:49
Speaker 2: and a small portion where the affair and relationship between
5:54
Speaker 2: Joey and Amy was the fuckus y.
5:59
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean it was something like I believe it
6:01
Speaker 1: was one hundred to one hundred and twenty five million
6:04
Speaker 1: people watched one or the other of at least one
6:09
Speaker 1: of those movies. I mean, that is an extraordinary amount
6:12
Speaker 1: of people who watched something the very first time that
6:15
Speaker 1: it was on. I mean, it captivated the entire country.
6:21
Speaker 2: You've now seen this Mary Joe Buttafuco story that we're
6:25
Speaker 2: going to be talking about today. What is your takeaway
6:30
Speaker 2: or what surprised you in watching this dramatization and sort
6:34
Speaker 2: of documentary version. The others maybe uh misled us with well.
6:41
Speaker 1: I think first and foremost, I was struck by just
6:45
Speaker 1: how raw and open she was about her own mistakes
6:53
Speaker 1: in the midst of something that no one could I mean,
6:56
Speaker 1: she is was utterly dropped in to this. This is
7:00
Speaker 1: not her fault write any of this, and she really
7:05
Speaker 1: chose to be self reflective over the years and learning
7:09
Speaker 1: about how she developed a pill addiction from her injuries,
7:16
Speaker 1: but then also as sort of a coping mechanism to
7:19
Speaker 1: deal with what was happening, which is entirely understandable. And
7:25
Speaker 1: I think I really understood how her real goal in
7:31
Speaker 1: life was to be a wife and a mother, like
7:34
Speaker 1: a very pure goal she had, and it was decimated
7:39
Speaker 1: by this man, really by her husband, And I think
7:42
Speaker 1: this is the first time where you really see that
7:47
Speaker 1: she is accountable for her own decisions, but you really
7:53
Speaker 1: see how she is finally I think, making him accountable.
7:57
Speaker 2: It's been thirty years and it's still a story that
8:01
Speaker 2: captivates us and obviously is the driving force of her life. Yes, yeah,
8:09
Speaker 2: I mean it's her.
8:10
Speaker 1: I was also struck by how kind of sweet she seems,
8:15
Speaker 1: like a very tender person and I don't think that
8:19
Speaker 1: was she was ever portrayed as that somehow, I just so,
8:25
Speaker 1: I feel like it's very revelatory, and I, like I said,
8:28
Speaker 1: I hope she I hope she feels some you know,
8:32
Speaker 1: if not closure, some some vindication, some healing, some you
8:37
Speaker 1: know that she's had her voice heard.
8:41
Speaker 2: She never changed her name, she still married Joe Butafuco.
8:43
Speaker 2: So when she tells this story, is she I'm married
8:46
Speaker 2: Joe Bafuco.
8:48
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, which I do think is interesting because the
8:51
Speaker 1: sun did change his name. She has two children, a
8:55
Speaker 1: daughter and a son, and the son, from what I understand,
8:59
Speaker 1: changed his life name because it's I mean, do you
9:02
Speaker 1: know anyone else with that last name? I don't. I've
9:04
Speaker 1: never heard of anyone else with that last name.
9:07
Speaker 2: It's interesting. In two thousand and six on entertainment tonight,
9:10
Speaker 2: I think Amy and Mary Joe did an interview.
9:18
Speaker 1: Together, yes, which you know thinking about that now, I don't.
9:25
Speaker 1: I mean the girl tried to kill her. I mean,
9:29
Speaker 1: that's one thing. There are a lot of things that
9:31
Speaker 1: are sort of unclear still, like whether Joey pressed her
9:34
Speaker 1: to do that or whether he even talked to her
9:37
Speaker 1: about it. But what is unequivocal because she admits it
9:42
Speaker 1: is she went there to kill her like that was
9:45
Speaker 1: that was the intent.
9:47
Speaker 2: She's started just seven years for the crime.
9:51
Speaker 1: Of fifteen sure, and she was released early mainly because
9:57
Speaker 1: Mary Joe came and gave a statement on her behalf,
10:01
Speaker 1: which I think is extraordinary.
10:04
Speaker 2: Now do they dig into that in this show Mary
10:07
Speaker 2: Joe's ability to forgive.
10:09
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, which is but you know in this
10:14
Speaker 1: way where they show the complexity of that that, yes,
10:21
Speaker 1: Mary Joe can see how this girl had a rough
10:24
Speaker 1: upbringing she was a child. She can have some sympathy
10:29
Speaker 1: for that, but it doesn't excuse her behavior.
10:32
Speaker 2: And yeah, initially Joey, but if you could denied the affair. Yes,
10:37
Speaker 2: he later in court, Amy testifies against him, and he
10:42
Speaker 2: does admit.
10:44
Speaker 1: He is a diabolical human being in my opinion, the
10:49
Speaker 1: fact that he could first of all just lie straight
10:53
Speaker 1: to his wife's face the police like everyone under the sun.
10:58
Speaker 1: And then afterwards his lawyer said something to the effect of, oh,
11:04
Speaker 1: this is truly who he is. He's a great family man.
11:08
Speaker 1: So he pled guilty to this one count of statutory rape.
11:14
Speaker 1: Like I don't he was almost like they were trying
11:16
Speaker 1: to champion him as if he's such a great guy,
11:19
Speaker 1: and then the neighborhood threw him a party when he
11:24
Speaker 1: got out of prison for statutory rape.
11:27
Speaker 2: He was still at the time with Mary Joe I
11:29
Speaker 2: believe he was still married. Two thousands, he was released
11:33
Speaker 2: from jail and marry joe and Joey moved to California.
11:38
Speaker 2: She filed for divorce from him in two thousand and three.
11:41
Speaker 2: He was remarried in two thousand and five.
11:43
Speaker 1: Yet he also before while they were still married, he
11:46
Speaker 1: was arrested for a solicitation while he was on probation.
11:52
Speaker 2: After he was released from prison.
11:55
Speaker 1: After who was released from prison?
11:57
Speaker 2: What do you think it is that makes this story
12:00
Speaker 2: so captivating still that we just still are learning and
12:07
Speaker 2: watching and this is a new version thirty years later.
12:11
Speaker 2: What is it about this one?
12:13
Speaker 1: I think, I think it's really sort of unbelievable still
12:17
Speaker 1: and then you think, well, it happened, and this girl
12:23
Speaker 1: is still I mean she I think part of it
12:27
Speaker 1: is somehow these these people get to have a second
12:31
Speaker 1: life by doing these kind of exploitative shows about themselves,
12:36
Speaker 1: and that is so disturbing to me. So that's another
12:41
Speaker 1: reason that I feel I feel really happy is the
12:45
Speaker 1: wrong word, you know. I feel really good for Mary
12:49
Speaker 1: Joe that she's able to have this platform and really
12:53
Speaker 1: be forthright and raw and honest and truth about her
13:00
Speaker 1: own story.
13:02
Speaker 3: Yeah.
13:03
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting that infamous is what these people are,
13:09
Speaker 2: which is a lot of people don't know. And it
13:12
Speaker 2: for me is becoming famous for something bad, but it
13:17
Speaker 2: is still fame, and so many people thrive off of
13:23
Speaker 2: being famous even if it is infamous.
13:27
Speaker 1: Right, And this is something interesting that Mary Joe does
13:30
Speaker 1: say in this movie that she never wanted to be famous.
13:35
Speaker 1: She never wanted any attention like this. Like I said,
13:38
Speaker 1: she wanted a simple life. This is a good person.
13:42
Speaker 1: She was raised Catholic, very traditional, wanted to be a
13:45
Speaker 1: wife and a mother, and she chose the wrong dude
13:51
Speaker 1: for that. Okay, let's get into it with the executive producer,
13:54
Speaker 1: Sherry Singer of the new Lifetime film. I am Mary
13:59
Speaker 1: Joe Buttafuco. Welcome, Sherry, thank you for being here with
14:16
Speaker 1: me today.
14:18
Speaker 3: I'm happy to be here.
14:20
Speaker 1: I want to say just to start that I am
14:24
Speaker 1: so incredibly glad that this woman finally gets her time
14:27
Speaker 1: to take back her own story. We have been hearing
14:29
Speaker 1: about this for years and I'm just I feel very
14:34
Speaker 1: moved by the entire endeavor.
14:37
Speaker 3: So bravo, thank you very much. I was too, and
14:41
Speaker 3: I didn't necessarily expect to be, you know, I just thought, well,
14:45
Speaker 3: i'll care, you know, but it was beyond particularly once
14:50
Speaker 3: I met her and I directed all the inserts of
14:53
Speaker 3: her and just watching her, you know, he's kind of
14:58
Speaker 3: amazing too.
15:00
Speaker 1: What happens is Mary Joe is sitting and she's quite
15:04
Speaker 1: literally speaking to the camera telling her story, and then
15:07
Speaker 1: it's intercut with narrative and actors and acting it. And
15:10
Speaker 1: there is something incredibly powerful about that that you see
15:17
Speaker 1: the nuance. It's almost as though you see her kind
15:20
Speaker 1: of healing while she's speaking. It's kind of extraordinary.
15:26
Speaker 3: You know, when we filmed the wedding scene, she was
15:29
Speaker 3: on the set. She came for a few days and
15:33
Speaker 3: she cried. I mean it was it was super emotional.
15:39
Speaker 3: Everybody on the set loved her immediately. I love this
15:44
Speaker 3: so much for her, me too, me too. How can
15:48
Speaker 3: you not?
15:49
Speaker 1: How can you not? Okay, So, let's so this case
15:53
Speaker 1: became tabloid legend, I mean literally almost instantly. And how
15:58
Speaker 1: did you approach dramatize the story that people think they know,
16:02
Speaker 1: but really they mostly only know it through headlines and
16:04
Speaker 1: caricatures of these people.
16:06
Speaker 3: Well, we actually just touched on that a little bit.
16:09
Speaker 3: It was meant to be. Lifetime has this sort of
16:13
Speaker 3: I Am or I was franchised where a woman that
16:18
Speaker 3: was famous or infamous years later reflects back on the
16:23
Speaker 3: story that everybody thinks they knew and tells it and
16:28
Speaker 3: you know, pretty much entirely from her point of view.
16:31
Speaker 3: And that doesn't mean we didn't have other sources, but
16:35
Speaker 3: this is the story that she wanted to tell. So
16:39
Speaker 3: we felt all of us, you know, felt very responsible
16:43
Speaker 3: for being true to that.
16:46
Speaker 1: Right And how did she how did you come to
16:49
Speaker 1: meet her? How did this The.
16:50
Speaker 3: Project actually was somebody at Lifetime, an executive that I
16:56
Speaker 3: work with frequently, who who I think they hooked up
17:02
Speaker 3: through Instagram believe it or not.
17:05
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I personally feel like that's how
17:07
Speaker 1: we heal through anything, right. But she I was so
17:12
Speaker 1: really moved by that, which I was not expecting necessarily,
17:17
Speaker 1: because I feel like that there's a nuance in this,
17:20
Speaker 1: you know, that complication of how they always made Amy
17:23
Speaker 1: Fisher look like the victim, yes, and then at the
17:27
Speaker 1: same time demonized her. So it's like all the women
17:30
Speaker 1: in this story just got the worst end. Yeah, especially
17:36
Speaker 1: married Joe, but especially married Joe yep, I mean beyond
17:41
Speaker 1: everything else, you know, she's still got a bullet in
17:44
Speaker 1: her head. It's unfaible. So well, let's yeah, let's talk
17:48
Speaker 1: about the actual case a little bit. So how true
17:53
Speaker 1: is the portrayal in the film of her dealing with
17:55
Speaker 1: the issues of like Joey not being home or her
17:58
Speaker 1: being alone with the kids, and him not growing up
18:00
Speaker 1: and his denial of the affair, Because I felt like
18:03
Speaker 1: those are the things that somehow no one ever talked about,
18:08
Speaker 1: like they never he was just sort of excused for
18:12
Speaker 1: this behavior and almost championed. You know, the moment when
18:15
Speaker 1: they say she says that they threw a party for
18:19
Speaker 1: him when he got out of jail serving time for
18:23
Speaker 1: statutory rape.
18:24
Speaker 3: I know it's I don't think that would happen today,
18:29
Speaker 3: you know, because going back about thirty four years, thirty
18:33
Speaker 3: five years now, so for reasons that you and I
18:38
Speaker 3: and the audience have lived through during this time, you
18:43
Speaker 3: know that wouldn't happen. But it did, and we had
18:48
Speaker 3: to have multiple sources for you know, all of our scenes.
18:53
Speaker 3: It was the writer did a tremendous amount of research,
18:58
Speaker 3: spent a long time I'm interviewing Mary Joe, and would
19:02
Speaker 3: go back to her, you know, when he was constructing things,
19:06
Speaker 3: and we made sure I mean the actual the parts
19:11
Speaker 3: that she isn't in. She still read the script at
19:15
Speaker 3: a certain point, but she saw all the things that
19:19
Speaker 3: she was going to say and had her own input
19:22
Speaker 3: in that. And you know, I guess we've all decided
19:25
Speaker 3: to believe her it's first hand, and I do, by
19:30
Speaker 3: the way, believe it. In fact, I think it was
19:33
Speaker 3: probably worse than you know, what we could portray. Yes,
19:39
Speaker 3: I think it was a conservative view.
19:44
Speaker 1: Yes, as a viewer, at moments, I felt like, gosh,
19:47
Speaker 1: she just was able to withstand so much but then
19:51
Speaker 1: also be very transparent about how awful some of these
19:57
Speaker 1: things were. And I just kept thinking, this is you know, generationally,
20:01
Speaker 1: that is not normal. It's not something that you know,
20:05
Speaker 1: we culturally have done in this country ever. And so
20:10
Speaker 1: I feel like, and her being raised Catholic and all
20:14
Speaker 1: of the sort of her own religious and cultural things,
20:17
Speaker 1: that just said, you have to be a partner, that's
20:22
Speaker 1: what you do you can't.
20:24
Speaker 3: That's a really central part of understanding why she stayed
20:30
Speaker 3: for eleven years after the incident and why and her
20:36
Speaker 3: family pressures, you know, from there from their religion, because
20:41
Speaker 3: people say, oh a, why didn't Why did you so
20:45
Speaker 3: not believe him? You know, and be why did you stay?
20:49
Speaker 3: And we felt it was really important to tell to
20:53
Speaker 3: answer that question for the audience because for those who
20:56
Speaker 3: already knew this story, those are the biggest questions.
20:59
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes, And when you hear it and you see this,
21:02
Speaker 1: it makes I mean, it's utterly understandable, you know, the
21:09
Speaker 1: amount of I just can't imagine that you could ever
21:13
Speaker 1: stand up to that at that time, under those circumstances
21:17
Speaker 1: and wanting to be I thought it was so beautiful.
21:20
Speaker 1: You know, we often do not champion and celebrate stay
21:24
Speaker 1: at home moms, and it's the single most important job
21:27
Speaker 1: there is, in my opinion, and oftentimes, you know, women
21:33
Speaker 1: sort of they don't get appreciated enough for that. And
21:36
Speaker 1: this seems like a woman who that's really what she
21:38
Speaker 1: wanted to do. She wanted to be a wife and
21:40
Speaker 1: a mother, yes, and it's such a pure, beautiful desire
21:45
Speaker 1: and to have it so destroyed like, I just it's devastating.
21:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is, and that really is who she was.
21:52
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, back then it was we
21:56
Speaker 3: were also sort of struggling with men's rights and you know,
22:01
Speaker 3: women's and women standing up and saying I can be
22:06
Speaker 3: a mother and a wife, but some people just want
22:11
Speaker 3: to do one or the other, you know. And it's
22:14
Speaker 3: no different than than many many, many career women who
22:19
Speaker 3: have deep careers deciding that not having kids is you know,
22:26
Speaker 3: right for them. So I think it was. It's a
22:31
Speaker 3: lot of in the hindsight looking at what was going
22:36
Speaker 3: on in the country then, right right, as well as
22:40
Speaker 3: this story.
22:42
Speaker 1: Yes, as well as the specifics for them. And that
22:45
Speaker 1: also makes me think about her addiction to the pain
22:49
Speaker 1: pills and the medications. You know, we didn't no one
22:52
Speaker 1: was talking about addiction to opioids at that time, nobody
22:55
Speaker 1: seven years seven years. So yeah, how much do you
22:58
Speaker 1: think how much was that a part of her denial?
23:02
Speaker 1: Did she talk?
23:02
Speaker 3: Well, I'm sure that that that was. It was all
23:06
Speaker 3: of the all of the things you're bringing up, you know,
23:09
Speaker 3: we were a part of it, and she didn't want
23:12
Speaker 3: to believe it. She was told not to believe it.
23:18
Speaker 3: By people in her life that mattered, and she had kids,
23:23
Speaker 3: and you know it's I mean, I've been through it.
23:26
Speaker 3: It's really hard to get a divorce, even when you
23:30
Speaker 3: both want it. It's really hard, right, and even if
23:34
Speaker 3: people are civil, right, you know so, And in those days,
23:38
Speaker 3: you were told it's better to stay in an unhappy
23:42
Speaker 3: marriage than to put your kids through a divorce. That
23:45
Speaker 3: was the molt, you know, from the late eighties certainly
23:50
Speaker 3: through the nineties, and and some of us never agreed
23:56
Speaker 3: with that, but a lot of people did.
23:59
Speaker 1: Yeah.
23:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think she's she's you know, iconic in
24:04
Speaker 3: this way. You know that that the things that happened
24:08
Speaker 3: to her happened at a time and a place that
24:13
Speaker 3: they could right.
24:15
Speaker 1: Right, Let's talk a little bit about the the the
24:32
Speaker 1: actual shooting, to which I think, you know, we kind
24:35
Speaker 1: of gloss over this, the specifics of she was standing
24:41
Speaker 1: on her own doorstep of her own home, yes, with
24:45
Speaker 1: being unafraid of looking at this little girl, and so
24:51
Speaker 1: how how true to reality were those specifically the things
24:55
Speaker 1: when they she goes and tries to sell her candy
24:59
Speaker 1: bars under the guys's of doing that for school, And we.
25:02
Speaker 3: Didn't make any of this up.
25:03
Speaker 1: That's all real.
25:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we did. We took very little, if anything,
25:10
Speaker 3: we took very We took almost no creative license because
25:13
Speaker 3: we couldn't and and therefore, you know what you saw happened.
25:22
Speaker 1: You just see how young this person is, the Amy,
25:26
Speaker 1: the choices she made in so naive and so wildly
25:30
Speaker 1: dangerous by going to the door first, and so were
25:34
Speaker 1: those things were real that she like stopped her and
25:38
Speaker 1: tried to I mean, it's just crazy.
25:40
Speaker 3: Those two people that she hired for the first one
25:44
Speaker 3: who couldn't pull the trigger and then the second one
25:47
Speaker 3: where she got the gun. I mean they testified, you know,
25:51
Speaker 3: on the record.
25:52
Speaker 1: They really helped to prosecute they did.
25:55
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, probably for a deal, you know that,
26:00
Speaker 3: but that'll that's standard, you know, if you're going to
26:04
Speaker 3: step up and tell the truth and you want you
26:08
Speaker 3: want something in return, right right? No, they you know,
26:11
Speaker 3: so they were very real people.
26:14
Speaker 1: Right did she when in the in the movie they
26:20
Speaker 1: show Mary Joe and she comes to and she identified
26:23
Speaker 1: Amy in a in a photo that was that also really?
26:28
Speaker 3: Yes, happened. Yeah, we couldn't. We had very little creative license.
26:34
Speaker 3: I mean you can the kind of creative license you
26:37
Speaker 3: have is maybe a scene that really occurred, didn't happen
26:40
Speaker 3: in the park we shot it in, or you know,
26:44
Speaker 3: maybe the you know, the the photos we took for example,
26:47
Speaker 3: when she remarried, you know, that was representative of what,
26:52
Speaker 3: you know, what their life was like, because it was
26:56
Speaker 3: you know, but those kinds of things, even with a
26:59
Speaker 3: you know, with a based on fact docudrama, you can
27:02
Speaker 3: have a little latitude for setting things, you know, maybe
27:08
Speaker 3: in a different place because you're shooting a movie. Sure
27:12
Speaker 3: you don't as opposed to a documentary. But even with documentaries,
27:18
Speaker 3: now you know, they're recreating, right, you know, they're all
27:22
Speaker 3: the reality shows and the docs have lots of recreation
27:25
Speaker 3: in them, right, So we obviously had had to do that.
27:32
Speaker 3: But I know, it's kind of hard to believe that
27:35
Speaker 3: these things really happened.
27:38
Speaker 1: It really is unbelievable, much of it.
27:42
Speaker 3: I mean, I have to tell you, I was around
27:45
Speaker 3: and in the business producing and some of my friends
27:49
Speaker 3: made those three Network movies, so I remember them very well,
27:55
Speaker 3: and it's they really were you know, the fact that
28:02
Speaker 3: they did the Amy Fisher story, you know what.
28:05
Speaker 1: I it's it's stunning to me.
28:08
Speaker 3: Think back on that and it's it's just so shocking.
28:11
Speaker 3: But a lot of it was it was instantaneous, you know,
28:15
Speaker 3: it happened. I mean, she was on a set. Mary
28:18
Speaker 3: Joe was on a set six months after she was shot.
28:23
Speaker 1: So those dates are real, That's what I was gathering.
28:26
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, they all had to be real.
28:29
Speaker 1: I mean, that's they don't even they haven't even processed.
28:32
Speaker 1: She can she's still in very early stages of her injuries.
28:37
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine the confusion of that and the
28:42
Speaker 1: And I really appreciated how she talked about in retrospect,
28:47
Speaker 1: now how absurd all of that was that but you
28:51
Speaker 1: but you what do you do all of the you know,
28:56
Speaker 1: there's just a multitude that was so complicated what was happening,
29:00
Speaker 1: and then just having to go with it. And I
29:04
Speaker 1: really I really appreciated that and the complexity and Amy
29:09
Speaker 1: being portrayed as the victim. But then Mary Joe's opinion
29:13
Speaker 1: based on her own actual experiences, And did you feel
29:16
Speaker 1: this from her? Did you talk about that at all?
29:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, one of the things we talked about was
29:21
Speaker 3: that obviously this is a woman who shot to kill her,
29:27
Speaker 3: you know, and she didn't die, and it uprooted the
29:33
Speaker 3: entire you know, her entire life obviously, and her kid's life.
29:38
Speaker 3: But at a certain point, you know, she started leaning
29:41
Speaker 3: into and you saw this, you know, this scene when
29:45
Speaker 3: she comes out of rehab where she's telling her kids,
29:48
Speaker 3: I have to forgive. And I think one of the
29:51
Speaker 3: things that I admire the most about her is I
29:55
Speaker 3: don't know if I could do that, you'd be perfectly honest.
29:58
Speaker 1: I am telling you. I was asking myself that many
30:02
Speaker 1: times watching this movie, like would I be capable? Like
30:05
Speaker 1: I'd love to think that that one I would have
30:08
Speaker 1: left immediately, which you know, I'm certain that wouldn't have
30:11
Speaker 1: happened either. But you know, her strength is something else.
30:18
Speaker 3: I agree, Yeah, and I still see it, you know,
30:21
Speaker 3: I I saw it. And she also she's very, very sweet.
30:28
Speaker 3: And the other thing was she was very I mean,
30:31
Speaker 3: and she's a lot of other things too, you know,
30:33
Speaker 3: but she wanted to do her best job, you know,
30:39
Speaker 3: of telling the story from her point of view, and
30:45
Speaker 3: I you know, the proof is in the fact that
30:48
Speaker 3: she's very close still to her kids. You know, I
30:51
Speaker 3: met her daughter. Yeah, and when we were shooting the inserts,
30:56
Speaker 3: who was lovely and therapist now and and and she
31:05
Speaker 3: made it a priority to give you know, yes, yes,
31:10
Speaker 3: create that she had the opportunity to do that. And really,
31:15
Speaker 3: I mean, Lifetime was the right home for this.
31:19
Speaker 1: I mean, it really is a you know, we I
31:24
Speaker 1: think about this a lot and talk about this a lot.
31:26
Speaker 1: You know, the idea of turning pain into purpose and
31:28
Speaker 1: all of that, and it seems so kind of trite
31:31
Speaker 1: at this point we just say that as a term,
31:34
Speaker 1: but there is so much methodical, deep work that actually
31:40
Speaker 1: goes into being able to do that. And I've I
31:44
Speaker 1: just I'm you know, I mean, she talks about she
31:47
Speaker 1: uses the term having Stockholm syndrome even you know, because
31:50
Speaker 1: this is also about he was an abusive man, yes, emotionally,
31:57
Speaker 1: and it's really uh, that's a whole other part that
32:01
Speaker 1: again nobody really talks about. It's it really is is
32:05
Speaker 1: shocking how much things have you know, changed. So were
32:10
Speaker 1: you with you know, this branding of the Long Island Lolita,
32:14
Speaker 1: We all just like accepted that as oh okay, and
32:18
Speaker 1: I'll let me read this article about like it just
32:20
Speaker 1: is bananas when I think about it now. And that
32:24
Speaker 1: obviously shifted some sympathy towards her, but also exploited her.
32:28
Speaker 1: But how conscious were you guys of correcting that narrative?
32:33
Speaker 3: What we wanted. The best way to do it is,
32:37
Speaker 3: I think the way it turned out, which is for
32:40
Speaker 3: Mary Joe to say, you know, I, yes she did this,
32:45
Speaker 3: you know, yes, you know it roomed a big part
32:49
Speaker 3: of my life. Yes, it had a lot of impact
32:52
Speaker 3: on my kids. Yes it broke up my marriage, but
32:57
Speaker 3: in a certain sense, you know, there were she was
33:01
Speaker 3: so young. I mean, that's all you really have to say.
33:04
Speaker 3: She was seventeen years old, right, right? And you know,
33:10
Speaker 3: and you know, I don't know what was in her
33:13
Speaker 3: head because I haven't met her and I haven't talked
33:16
Speaker 3: to her. I mean I've watched a lot of the
33:20
Speaker 3: old footage and seen statements that she has made, but
33:25
Speaker 3: I don't I couldn't speak for her, but I can
33:29
Speaker 3: say that Mary that having married Joe, watch her come
33:34
Speaker 3: to that conclusion and say it both as the character
33:38
Speaker 3: and as the real Mary Joe was a priority for her,
33:44
Speaker 3: for sure, it was.
33:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yes, getting back to her daughter. Did her daughter
33:49
Speaker 1: have any reactions on set?
33:51
Speaker 3: Was she there when you wasn't actually on the set
33:55
Speaker 3: when we shot? She was because we shot you know,
34:00
Speaker 3: in a distant location, and Jesse, her daughter has a
34:08
Speaker 3: life in California and a therapy practice and other things,
34:13
Speaker 3: so she couldn't make it. But and also frankly, it
34:17
Speaker 3: can be very boring for somebody who's not Ayes. I
34:22
Speaker 3: mean everybody thinks it's like I want to go to
34:25
Speaker 3: a movie set.
34:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember my dad coming to the set first time.
34:29
Speaker 1: He called it. It's like watching the grass grow.
34:31
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I like watching paint dry.
34:34
Speaker 1: In Joey's sentencing, Amy Fisher spoken implied that Joey knew
34:40
Speaker 1: she was planning to shoot Mary Joe and all these
34:43
Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts on that.
34:45
Speaker 3: I have no idea whether that was true or not. Yeah,
34:48
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, the human in me would
34:52
Speaker 3: like to believe that he didn't.
34:54
Speaker 1: Right, the human in me would like to believe that also.
34:58
Speaker 3: So I have no idea. Yeah, I doubt it.
35:01
Speaker 1: Actually, it's been such a long time since the crime occurred.
35:20
Speaker 1: But what do you think is the hardest thing for
35:24
Speaker 1: Mary Joe about making this film?
35:28
Speaker 3: Saying, you know, coming to grips with I think the
35:32
Speaker 3: easiest thing was. And then I'll say what I think
35:35
Speaker 3: the hardest thing was. I think the easiest thing for
35:38
Speaker 3: her was that she felt like she had an opportunity
35:41
Speaker 3: to really tell her story and with some distance. So
35:50
Speaker 3: I think that part, I think the hardest part was.
35:54
Speaker 3: I mean, she was very, very emotional, you know, she
35:59
Speaker 3: it took her back through you know, all the things
36:03
Speaker 3: right that happened or most and but I and I
36:09
Speaker 3: think she I you know, when when we were shooting
36:14
Speaker 3: her on camera part and we got to the end
36:19
Speaker 3: and she started to cry, you know, she said, you
36:23
Speaker 3: could take that out, you don't have to use that,
36:26
Speaker 3: And I said, how can I not? You know, that's
36:31
Speaker 3: how you felt. And I'm not going to you know,
36:34
Speaker 3: erase that, you know, to plase, you know, yes, because
36:38
Speaker 3: you think an audience might be at by it. Do
36:41
Speaker 3: you know what.
36:42
Speaker 1: Absolutely humanizes her on a level That end makes us
36:47
Speaker 1: realize just how exploited and forgotten and pushed aside she
36:53
Speaker 1: was in this whole, this whole situation, which is imaginable
37:00
Speaker 1: when you think that she is the person who was
37:02
Speaker 1: the victim of the Christ. She did nothing, She was
37:05
Speaker 1: utterly innocent, and somehow the story has always become about
37:11
Speaker 1: the other two.
37:12
Speaker 3: Well, it's more tabloidy when it's when it's about the
37:18
Speaker 3: other two that right, that is and certainly you know
37:23
Speaker 3: the National Inquirer was a big deal then. Yes, I
37:27
Speaker 3: really didn't have the Internet yet or social media.
37:31
Speaker 1: The National Inquirer I remember it, yep.
37:35
Speaker 3: Me too. And you know I was working in the world,
37:42
Speaker 3: so I I I don't know. I mean when it
37:48
Speaker 3: actually happened, I was making family movies for Walt Disney Della,
37:53
Speaker 3: So I wasn't in that world until a few years
37:57
Speaker 3: later and when I actually started at Lifetime, and I
38:05
Speaker 3: I just think that that that was the thing to
38:11
Speaker 3: do then, and it was not. I mean, I can
38:16
Speaker 3: think of a lot of sensational stories that happened to women,
38:21
Speaker 3: you know that you could have blamed them for, right,
38:25
Speaker 3: the burning.
38:26
Speaker 1: Bed, Oh yes, indeedy Lorena Bobbitt, all of that. Yeah,
38:32
Speaker 1: those things that were you know, we just sort of
38:35
Speaker 1: didn't question the narrative that was being sold. And it's
38:41
Speaker 1: really or And I was also so I'm gonna say
38:47
Speaker 1: moved again, but I was by her by Mary Joe
38:50
Speaker 1: talking about you know, the SNL sketches, all of the comedy,
38:53
Speaker 1: the people turning it the.
38:55
Speaker 3: Talk show to SNL. She talked about comedy Skitch that
38:59
Speaker 3: comedy sketches.
39:00
Speaker 1: Sorry, she didn't call out anyone specifically, yes, to be clear,
39:04
Speaker 1: but the comedy. You know, I just can't imagine how
39:11
Speaker 1: that felt.
39:13
Speaker 3: I can't either. I mean, I hate watching myself doing
39:17
Speaker 3: a normal interview. You know, I can't imagine it either.
39:24
Speaker 3: But and it was she was just very very open
39:27
Speaker 3: about talking.
39:28
Speaker 1: About I do think there is as you said, you know,
39:33
Speaker 1: the distance and perspective really is key in this.
39:40
Speaker 3: And also changing times, you know what I mean, not
39:43
Speaker 3: just but it was a while ago, but that times
39:46
Speaker 3: have changed.
39:47
Speaker 1: Why do you think people are still so fascinated by
39:49
Speaker 1: this case?
39:51
Speaker 3: Because I think it was it was sort of a
39:54
Speaker 3: household name. I mean, people that that are younger than
40:00
Speaker 3: I am, you know, vaguely remember it, and people that
40:06
Speaker 3: lived in Long Island remember it.
40:09
Speaker 1: That's me. I grew up about thirty minutes from where
40:12
Speaker 1: this happened, and I was living in Manhattan at the
40:14
Speaker 1: time in college and auditioning, and so this was like
40:21
Speaker 1: on every paper. And you know, my parents still lived
40:24
Speaker 1: on Long Island at the time, so it was everywhere,
40:28
Speaker 1: the local, the national. It just was absolutely everywhere and
40:31
Speaker 1: so identifiable because that accent. I grew up with that accent.
40:35
Speaker 1: It's so specific, just kind of all of it.
40:39
Speaker 3: Yes, it was challenging casting people who could.
40:44
Speaker 1: Who could do it right because it's not a New
40:46
Speaker 1: York accent, it's a Long Island accent.
40:49
Speaker 3: Yes, you really have to listen to it carefully. Yeah,
40:55
Speaker 3: but yes, that's kind of an unferred There was almost
40:57
Speaker 3: like a character. Long Island was almost like a character
41:00
Speaker 3: in theory.
41:02
Speaker 2: Yep.
41:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Joey sort of epitomized that. Yes, and you
41:07
Speaker 1: know that guy, that Italian Long Island guy who can
41:13
Speaker 1: do whatever, and oh he's charming, you know, he just
41:16
Speaker 1: sort of gets away with it. So what do you
41:19
Speaker 1: hope that the millions of people who were obsessed with
41:22
Speaker 1: this and will watch this film, what do you hope
41:24
Speaker 1: that they will get out of it? Well?
41:25
Speaker 3: First, I hope they watch it and can't help it.
41:31
Speaker 3: But secondly, I hope they get out of it the
41:34
Speaker 3: things we're actually talking about, yes, which are how times
41:39
Speaker 3: can change, how social mores and religious mores can change,
41:48
Speaker 3: but can also really in any direction, really influence people's
41:53
Speaker 3: opinions of things and the way they look at them.
41:57
Speaker 3: And I think that I I just want her to
42:02
Speaker 3: be heard authentically. You know as as herself. Yes, and
42:07
Speaker 3: I think we you know, we worked really hard to
42:12
Speaker 3: have the all the pieces that weren't actually her feel authentic.
42:18
Speaker 3: And you know, we had three wonderful leads and and
42:24
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure and they were hard to they were
42:26
Speaker 3: going to be hard to find because of the accents
42:30
Speaker 3: and the mannerisms and how many years the you know,
42:33
Speaker 3: the story to a lot of these stories do not
42:36
Speaker 3: cover that many years. You know, where you're changing here
42:41
Speaker 3: and colors and the way you look and what's going
42:44
Speaker 3: on in the world, and you know, so there was
42:47
Speaker 3: a lot of production around doing.
42:50
Speaker 1: The performances were very, very strong everybody.
42:54
Speaker 3: I'm really proud of them. I really am so.
42:58
Speaker 1: After everything that Mary Joe has adored and been through.
43:03
Speaker 1: What do you think I mean this this idea of closure,
43:06
Speaker 1: which I always think.
43:07
Speaker 3: Is a farce the somewhat anyway.
43:13
Speaker 1: You get some Yeah, like, what do you think it
43:16
Speaker 1: looks like for her? And do you think that she
43:18
Speaker 1: has gotten some healing from making this film?
43:22
Speaker 3: I think she did. I mean she I think because
43:26
Speaker 3: she could let herself emotionally experience these things, you know,
43:31
Speaker 3: and because of how she felt on the set, and
43:33
Speaker 3: because of how she felt when she was, you know,
43:37
Speaker 3: delivering the things she wanted to say camera. I think
43:42
Speaker 3: she probably got some of that. And I think, you know,
43:47
Speaker 3: there's this feeling if you feel totally misunderstood and you
43:53
Speaker 3: get a chance to, in your own words, try to
43:56
Speaker 3: set it straight. You know, that would feel liberating to
44:00
Speaker 3: me in a certain way. She's also, like, you know,
44:03
Speaker 3: very close to her daughter and her son, and she's
44:06
Speaker 3: very present, you know, she was. I found her. I
44:10
Speaker 3: wasn't sure right right what it was going to be like,
44:14
Speaker 3: and I found her very very present and really thoughtful,
44:18
Speaker 3: you know, about what was going on.
44:21
Speaker 1: Oh I love I just love hearing that so much.
44:25
Speaker 3: You really, I mean, I wouldn't say it if I
44:27
Speaker 3: didn't really believe it.
44:29
Speaker 1: So I am Mary Joe Budafuco will premiere on Saturday,
44:32
Speaker 1: January seventeenth, at eight pm Eastern and Pacific on Lifetime.
44:37
Speaker 1: Everyone must watch it.
44:40
Speaker 3: I'm glad you really like the movie, and I hope
44:43
Speaker 3: a lot of people will watch.
44:44
Speaker 1: I do too. I do too. Thank you so much, Sherry,
44:48
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Okay, I want to hear what
44:51
Speaker 1: cases you all are interested in hearing about. What are
44:54
Speaker 1: you watching that you want us to talk about what
44:57
Speaker 1: actors or producers or directors do you want to hear.
45:00
Speaker 1: Hit us up at our DMS at Killer Thriller Pod
45:03
Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok and let us know. Make sure
45:07
Speaker 1: to follow the pod on socials and subscribe to Amy
45:10
Speaker 1: and TJ Presents wherever you listen to podcasts that will
45:14
Speaker 1: wrap us up for today until next time.