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He Managed Beyoncé & Mariah… Then Stole Millions: Jonathan Schwartz’s Comeback Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

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First genius idea was becoming a bookie in college.
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Second genius idea I had was let me, quote UN quote, borrow money
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from Alanis, which translation means steel or embezzle with the
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intent that I'll pay it back. I mean, I should have, could
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have, but did not take the money from my own account because at
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that point I was making seven figures a year.
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There was no reason why I couldn't pay that debt.
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Had I done that, had I had the courage to do that, things would
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have been very different. What happens when your worst
0:30
fear becomes your reality? Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, welcome
0:34
to the Nightmare Success In and Out podcast where we explore how
0:37
to overcome your fears and nightmares to set yourself free.
0:40
We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
0:43
Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
0:47
These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad.
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There's some humor, but hopefully you can come away with
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a nugget of something that'll help you knock down some of the
0:56
prisons you built up in your own mind.
1:06
All right, welcome back nine for success in and out, listeners.
1:10
This is where you come from. What happens when your words
1:11
sure becomes your reality. How do you adapt, survive,
1:14
overcome? Set yourself free, folks.
1:16
I know I sound like a broken record, but don't forget to
1:19
follow. Follow, subscribe, share this
1:22
thing out, like it up, comment. It really helps the show and I
1:25
very much appreciate it. So who are we talking to you
1:30
today on Nightmare Success? Well, we're talking to Jonathan
1:34
Swartz. And man, does he have one
1:38
interesting story. A little bit about his story.
1:42
This is story about what happens when you're trusted with the
1:44
fortunes of global superstars living in the inner circle of of
1:50
fame and power and he lose everything.
1:53
Jonathan Swartz was known in Hollywood by many as a diva
1:57
whisperer, managed the money of icons like Beyoncé, Mariah
2:02
Carey, Alanipus Morissette. But behind the scenes Jonathan
2:06
was living a secret life that was spiraling out of control
2:09
with cocaine and gambling addiction.
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Consumed by his habit, Jonathan began to embezzle millions from
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his celebrity clients to support his addiction.
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His world collapsed, his reputation shattered, all
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leading to a six year prison sentence.
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But here's the story that turns Jonathan is now nine years
2:29
sober. He's now serving as a program
2:32
director at Atlas. No, it's Atlas.
2:35
I spelled I I said it wrong and I and when I was talking to
2:38
Jonathan Harris, it's it's a TLUSI think I just can't say it.
2:42
But rehab. He's helping others fight the
2:45
demons that nearly destroyed him.
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Trust me, you'll be moved, challenged and changed by her
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story. Jonathan Swartz, welcome in.
4:18
How are you? I'm.
4:19
Good. Thank you for the quite the
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introduction. So it's ALTUS, Altus Rehab.
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That's why I'm saying it wrong. I've got it written down.
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It's OK, a lot of people too. And then?
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So it's ALTUS. Yes.
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Yeah, so I I'm saying it wrong because I haven't written down
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wrong. So, but that's not, that's not
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anything unusual. Brent Cassidy, my whole family,
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when I mispronounce things, they know approximately what I'm
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saying. But then, you know, it's like
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always wrong. Just a little bit, just a
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little. Bit just tiny a tiny bit and
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I'll be 10 years sober in May. Wow, that's right.
4:53
Coming up. What is that?
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Two or three months at a time, yeah.
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One day at a time. Well, I, you know, I know just
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from listening and reading some of the other stuff, you your
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childhood had addiction in it and your dad was someone that
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that carried that. Can you tell us a little bit
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about that, Jonathan, growing up, what you're like, where you
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grew up, your mom, dad, how was all that?
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Yeah, so my father left the home when I was four years old, and
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my mom was forced to take, you know, as a young parent.
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She really wasn't even ready for motherhood, let alone being a
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single mom. And so, you know, that was
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tough. My mom was stressed.
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She did the best she could to put a roof over her head, food
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on the table, as I often say, and clothes.
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My father was absent, and he was in the world of doing, you know,
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criminal, criminal behavior. Frankly, he was just fortunate
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enough not to get caught. But he was a gambling addict and
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a cocaine addict. And I never wanted to be like
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him, but to be honest, I became much worse than him did.
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You have a relationship with him.
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Was there like, I mean, if he left at four years old, was it
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something where it was shared custody and you went back and
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forth or how, how was that as a kid?
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So no, it was not. There was no shared custody.
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I saw him maybe when I was a teenager, probably around 10 or
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11 pre called my bar mitzvah, which you know, he participated
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in. And then after that it was maybe
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talking to him on the phone a few times a month.
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I did I did live with him when I I was in San Francisco area with
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my mother, living with my mother and I wanted to go back to New
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York where I grew up in the Catskills and finish my senior
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year of high school with all my friends from childhood.
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And so I called my father and I asked him if he'd be willing to
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move up to the Catskills so I can complete.
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He was living at this point in Lower East Side of Manhattan and
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he said yes. So I moved in with him.
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There was no discipline. I would walk in.
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There's him with coke women that you know, I don't want to use
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that word on your podcast, but not healthy thing to see for
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even a 17 year old as a senior. What do you?
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Think of that though, like Jonathan what seen that type of
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situation as a kid, 17 years old?
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What What Like what was going through your mind because you're
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trying to get through high school, you're looking, you
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know, to graduate and then you see also you're living with this
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craziness. What?
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What was were you thinking? I was thinking I was going to
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come home, honestly, and I didn't expect the discipline,
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which I just said was absent, But I expected to come to a safe
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environment where I can bring my high school sweetheart, which
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ultimately became my wife of 23 years.
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That's not what I saw. You know, I don't recall too
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much. I suppressed a lot of those
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emotions. One thing I'll never forget is,
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you know, he tried to buy my love through material items.
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So I had a a cool car when I was a senior in high school that he
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bought. And I remember pulling up with
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my girlfriend and into the driveway and two of his
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bodyguards coming out of outdoor with large sums of cocaine and
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saying to me, you have to put this down your pants right now
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and get out of here because the FBI is watching your father's
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home. That was like, I couldn't
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believe it. That certainly wasn't something
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at 17 years old I should have been exposed to.
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That was my father. And he passed away.
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So from there, we really didn't have a relationship.
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When I traveled to New York from LA in my former career, I will
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call out my best friend Mark and say, Mark, can you meet?
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I want to see my dad, but can you please accompany me?
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Let's go grab a quick bagel. Let's spend 45 minutes with him.
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I'd have to give him money because he lost all of his money
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gambling. And so I would give him money.
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That's when I had money. And it was, you know, surface
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like it wasn't real substantive dialogue.
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You know, when I got in trouble, he passed away in February of
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2017. At that point I was on pre
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sentencing and I wasn't allowed to go to his funeral.
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To be honest, I miss him now more than he's, you know, now
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that he's been passed, you know, he's passed away then when he
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was alive. So I do think about him a lot.
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I wish perhaps I could have been more mature as as a young 1718
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year old and even into my 20s and 30s and accepted him for who
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he was and to try and rekindle our relationship.
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I didn't do that. I don't carry that guilt and
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shame. I don't live in resentments.
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But there's some songs I love listening to and remind me of my
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father. And, you know, unfortunately, I
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was prohibited from traveling to the funeral, but that's just one
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of the million consequences of those poor choices that I've
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made. There are so many consequences.
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So you get out of high school what what happens?
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What's your next step that happens after that?
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My next step was neither my mother nor my father knew how to
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guide me as to what what I should do upon graduation, so I
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took it upon myself. My friends were going to various
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colleges, so I decided to go to my first of three colleges,
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taking out FAFSA loans. I went to CW Post in Long Island
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my freshman year. I did really well academically.
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I wasn't a great student in high school, but I really studied
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accounting. And from there, Mark, my best
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friend, he was in College in Boston, he said, why don't we
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transfer to SUNY Albany? And, and we both transferred for
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our sophomore year to SUNY Albany, which is a great
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accounting school. And that's where I started to
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get in trouble a little bit my junior year, first semester.
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I, I couldn't socialize with my friends, my fraternity brothers,
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because, you know, they came from affluent families and I
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came from a fairly poor family. And I wanted to socialize.
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I wanted to go out to the bar with them.
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I wanted to go pick up, you know, girls and, you know, just
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do what you know, respectfully, not disrespectfully of course,
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and just have fun like everyone else is having fun.
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And I couldn't do it. So I came up with this idea.
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Let me become a bookie with another fraternity brother
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within the Greek system. And we knew nothing about being
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bookies, but you know, we lost $10,000 in the first two weeks.
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Bookies don't lose, but we of course lost.
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And you know, that was like my first entree into, call it the
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arena of gambling. That is interesting that you got
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into that because I, I, I, I went to University of Missouri
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and, and there was always one guy that was in the Greek town
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that covered well, he, he probably this, this guy probably
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covered all the universe of Missouri, but man, he was
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college rich. He, he was, he was a good
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bookie. I mean, he, he had, he had
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figured it out. It's funny that you say that you
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guys lost money being bookies. Yeah, it was terrible and it was
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a lot of money. At the time it was $10,000.
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We were both responsible for half of it.
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And that was also the first time that I abandoned a friend like
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my fraternity brother was sweetheart and I left school to
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escape that $5000 obligation and I transferred to San Francisco
12:19
State because that's where my mother and my stepfather were
12:21
living. And it's I tried to make amends
12:25
with this fraternity brother visa vie Facebook when I
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returned into society in 2020. And I'll never forget.
12:34
And I understand his response. His response was, I hope you die
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from cancer. Don't ever reach out to me
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again. But he's right.
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He had to take on the responsibility.
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And the truth is I should have paid him back 20 years ago when
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I had the money and it didn't even dawn on me.
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So you know, we I don't when you make amends, it's not for
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purposes of forgiveness. It's so that that's what's
12:58
healthy for you, me and you don't have any expectations on
13:02
how the recipient is going to respond.
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And in this case I was hoping it was a little different, but I
13:07
can respect his position. Well, and I think it's, you
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know, so you, you get back from, you've skipped from New York all
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the way back over to San Francisco.
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And I always think that when I, when you, when you're looking at
13:26
this type of story, I mean, you took accounting at CPA, but you
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became one of the five top five, you know, business managers in,
13:35
in in a world where there was lots of money.
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How did that come to you? Like what, what would the steps
13:44
that happen? How does someone do that and and
13:46
go that path? Yeah, it's a good question.
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So I had 7 Cpas in my family, so I knew I was destined.
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They were cousins. It's in your blood.
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It's in my blood. It was the only subject that I
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actually took interest in and did fairly well.
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So one of them worked in the entertainment space.
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He was well respected music specialist in the entertainment
14:07
world as a business manager. So at barbecues when I was
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younger, he'd say you come work for me, you come work for me.
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So when I graduated SF State and I called them up and I said,
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'cause I'm ready to come work for you down in LA.
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He said no, you're not you're immature, you're irresponsible.
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What do you know about business management?
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I really recommend that you go work for a public accounting
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firm and hone your analytical skills.
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And I'm like, gosh, OK, so I got a job.
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I worked for a sole practitioner in the financial district of San
14:36
Francisco for about 3 1/2 years. And then, you know, I received a
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phone call from that cousin and he said, you're ready to come
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work for me. So at this stage of my life, I
14:46
was married and we had one, our first of three adult sons.
14:50
So we got in our little Honda Accord and we drove down South
14:54
and that was my, you know, entree into the entertainment
14:58
space from a business management perspective.
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So Jonathan, when you you pack up, you move, you're young, your
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cousins got some things that he's got a world that you would
15:11
like to be, you know, a part of and get big in.
15:15
Was it was it hard to get started?
15:17
Was it something that you felt like, no, I'm made for this?
15:20
Like how did it all start for you?
15:22
I'm excited about the opportunity because we wanted to
15:24
have more kids, you know, working in the financial
15:28
district, you know, I was making an accounting account salary.
15:31
But San Francisco, all of California for the most part, is
15:34
very expensive. So I was excited about the
15:37
opportunity to maybe, you know, have a career path.
15:39
I didn't want to stay in accounting, you know, doing
15:42
preparing taxes and that wasn't really sexy to me.
15:46
But working in the entertainment as a business manager, there's
15:48
so many responsibilities. And so I just wanted to, you
15:52
know, walk in on day one and become a sponge and learn and
15:56
have him as my mentor and, and learn everything that I possibly
16:00
could from him and his staff. And so I spent a lot of time in
16:03
the file room, the mail room, and I read countless files and
16:08
you know, each client and what we did for that client and how
16:11
do you prepare this type of Excel spreadsheet and how do you
16:15
prepare this presentation? And I did a lot of observation,
16:20
had at that point no client contact.
16:23
It was just doing a lot of traditional accounting work.
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And I was learning how to do that, learning how to prepare
16:29
tour budgets, learning how to understand the royalty streams.
16:33
I'm learning how to understand merchandising and, you know,
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various things that artists in the music business, you know,
16:40
receive in terms of revenue streams.
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And so how to budget, you know, a wealthy person, a high net
16:47
worth. And I really learned a lot.
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I worked there for about 3 1/2, four years.
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At the end of 1999, his firm was acquired by Chase Manhattan
16:58
Bank, now known as JP Morgan, And he asked me if I wanted to
17:02
get into family wealth management investment banking.
17:05
I said, cuz I love you. Thank you for the opportunity
17:08
that you gave me in the family. But with your your blessing, you
17:12
know, really like with your blessing, I'd like to take a
17:14
small book of business and join another firm.
17:16
So he gave me his blessing. He allowed me to take a handful
17:19
of, you know, B level clients, not big.
17:22
I wasn't experienced enough to have A listers at this point and
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I called up this, this guy that my cousins, all my cousins knew
17:31
he had a very successful business management firm.
17:34
It's called GSO Business management.
17:35
His name was Michael Oppenheim and Michael was, was becoming my
17:40
new mentor. He passed away a couple years
17:44
ago. May he rest in peace.
17:47
You know, my partners were great to me.
17:48
I wasn't a partner when I started working for him.
17:50
That night he, he took me out to dinner and we, we cut a deal and
17:54
I came in there with that small book of business.
17:57
I was a business manager, but not a partner.
17:59
It took years to before I became a partner.
18:01
And that was, I was off to the races, you know, and I, I got a
18:06
lucky break with a band called Linkin Park.
18:09
And they, you know, hired me, hired the firm and I was the
18:13
lead partner that worked on them and individually and
18:17
collectively. And they had really high
18:20
expectations, like all celebrities should, you know,
18:23
when it comes to their business management and those I wanted to
18:27
exceed those expectations. So I worked really hard.
18:30
I, you know, pre my addiction and pre my poor choices.
18:34
I was really good at what I did. I enjoyed working with all of my
18:38
clients and I was lucky to have great clients and.
18:42
Well, you had some big clients. I wonder, like, is it like any
18:46
other business, Jonathan, with you get something a big break
18:51
like that. Does the word get around how,
18:54
how do you get to an Alanis Morissette or a Beyoncé?
18:58
Like how did, how do you grow your business to because that's
19:02
you're, you're in a field where it's so personal and you're, you
19:07
are more or less handling all the things that they make.
19:11
And how does how does it evolve? How does it happen?
19:16
Yeah, so it happens when when a band, when they see that Linkin
19:20
Park is so successful, it really they're the one that serves the
19:24
credit is Linkin Park, right? But, you know, they start to
19:27
ask. So like personal managers,
19:30
agents, entertainment lawyers, they start to ask, well, who's
19:34
their team that's working with them?
19:36
And when they find out or found out that, you know, we, I was
19:39
their business manager, my assistant was getting call after
19:42
call. Can we take Jonathan to lunch?
19:44
Can we take him to dinner? Can we schmooze?
19:47
And that's OK because, you know, I wasn't a big schmoozer.
19:51
But that's important way to build your network and to get
19:54
referrals and also to give referrals.
19:56
I was not the type of guy though is if if you give me a referral,
20:00
I don't believe there's reciprocity that's necessary.
20:02
If you're the right fit for my client, then yes, of course I'll
20:06
refer to you. But if you're not the right fit.
20:08
I'm not going to ask my client to take a meeting with you.
20:11
And I was transparent with that and I so that is the lucky break
20:15
that I had. It expanded the network for me
20:19
and allowed me to, to get some great referrals subsequent to
20:23
working with Linkin Park, including Alanis and many other
20:26
beautiful clients that I, I was frankly blessed to have.
20:29
They were wonderful people. The direct victims certainly
20:32
didn't deserve what I did, and the indirect victims didn't
20:36
deserve the embarrassment that I brought to the entertainment
20:38
space. And I, yeah.
20:42
And if you do a good job, I think if I remember right, just
20:45
because of some books I've read that that a business manager
20:49
works off a percentage of sometimes growth sometimes and
20:52
whatever that is. And, and if they do better than
20:57
the maybe there's a different structure.
20:58
But so when you get into these big clients, I mean, you're, you
21:02
are also doing well. Let's get into the craziness.
21:09
So I mean, you've got this life going on.
21:13
You're kind of like the guy that is starting to be sought after.
21:19
You're growing a family. How does the craziness start?
21:24
The craziness started in this crazy brain of mine.
21:30
You know, I was coaching my kids in youth sports and this
21:32
assistant coach, I think it was my middle son's team, asked me
21:35
one day if I wanted to gamble. And I said sure, I'll place a
21:39
small bet. And that small bet led to losing
21:42
week 1 and not being able to pay back.
21:44
So the first genius idea was becoming a bookie in college.
21:48
The second genius idea I had was let me quote, UN quote, borrow
21:52
money from Alanis, which translation means steel or
21:55
embezzle with the intent that I'll pay it back.
21:59
I mean, I should have, could have, but did not take the money
22:03
from my own account because at that point I was making seven
22:06
figures a year. There was no reason why I
22:08
couldn't pay that debt. Had I done that, had I had the
22:11
courage to do that, things would have been very different.
22:14
But gambling is a progressive disease.
22:17
And so that led to six years everyday gambling on sports, and
22:24
it was the worst six years of my life because I was violating.
22:28
It's so interesting that, that how you fell into that because
22:32
of it's something you talked about it with your dad in that
22:35
world of gambling. And, and I think some people
22:39
have, you know, most people have obsessive traits, but they, they
22:44
can use it in different lanes. Did you know?
22:48
Because like you said, you could have paid this.
22:50
It was probably easier because you had all these accounts to
22:55
cover your bets on your own, but you didn't when was it that you
23:01
were? Did you start thinking shit,
23:05
I've got, I've got I've got some issues here.
23:08
What what am I doing? Because a betting can, I mean,
23:11
there's so many levels of betting that you can do.
23:13
You can go the spread you, you go all the different ways of,
23:16
of, of, you know, now they've got, you know, how many times a
23:19
guy catches a ball. But what, how far into this?
23:25
You said six years, but how far into it did you feel like, uh
23:30
oh, I'm, I'm doing something And and I know that you've said that
23:34
your wife and nobody knew that you were doing this.
23:36
This is your lane on your own doing this in a secret world.
23:42
And then over here, you're operating as Jonathan Swartz,
23:44
the guru. Yeah, it's like they say in the
23:48
A book rights is, you know, I put up a facade to the outer
23:52
world. I presented that I was this
23:53
successful man all put together, but deep down inside I was
23:57
insecure, committing a white collar crime, holding that dark
24:01
secret to myself and not being able to sleep for six years and
24:05
just looking at myself in the mirror and felt disgusting.
24:09
Like, look, disgusted. Excuse me, looking at myself and
24:12
believing that a guy and myself who thought I had a moral
24:15
compass really didn't have a moral compass.
24:17
I dropped that I had no integrity.
24:19
I thought I did. And so, you know, I was beating
24:22
myself up every day. And, you know, toward the tail
24:25
end of that six year run, I started to become addicted to to
24:29
cocaine. And you know, the cocaine,
24:32
Really sorry. No, I was going to ask you with
24:36
the, the, the cocaine, I'm guessing was probably a relief
24:40
valve of the stress that you were creating.
24:43
And, and you're, I mean, you're in the fast lane now.
24:47
You're going to, you're going to even speed it up even more with
24:51
covering it with the feel of cocaine.
24:54
Yeah. And unfortunately, I have
24:55
coronary artery disease. So doing cocaine and waking up
24:58
with my sheets soaked, sweating and heart rate racing, you know,
25:03
a lot of the, the professionals that evaluated me once I got
25:06
caught suggested that you were likely trying to subconsciously
25:10
kill yourself. And frankly, I was.
25:14
It was dark. I couldn't believe what I was
25:16
doing. And hiding it even made it
25:17
worse. And the truth is, I had a
25:19
support group that if I had the courage to ask for help, things
25:22
would have been very different. Yeah, I think that's one of the
25:26
things that people, they're afraid to ask for help, so they
25:29
stay on an island trapped. And if they're talking to
25:32
somebody, they're like, hey, you know, whether it be Mark, your
25:35
best friend or whoever, you know, I'm freaking out.
25:39
What I what should I do? That might have been the thing
25:42
that that got you back on track, but that didn't happen.
25:48
Were you when you were presenting?
25:51
I'm sure you presented, you know, monthly or quarterly or
25:55
whatever to your clients. Ever figure out or ask you weird
25:59
questions? So, you know, the five clients,
26:03
I mean, I had like 20 plus clients.
26:05
So like the five of them that I embezzled from each one
26:07
different amounts. Let's talk about Alanis.
26:10
That's the only one that I'll talk publicly about.
26:12
I say because she became public with it.
26:14
She showed up in my sentencing and spoke eloquently.
26:17
If I was the judge, I would have given myself life.
26:20
You know, she was she, she had a right to be there.
26:23
She, when I went to meet with her, she was meeting with about
26:27
to pitch, you know, myself as her business manager.
26:31
The irony behind that, and no pun intended with her song
26:35
ironic is I came with visual aids.
26:40
Here's what I'm going to give you.
26:41
Here's when you're going to go on tour.
26:43
Here's what a tour budget looks like.
26:44
Here's what your personal budget looks like.
26:46
Here's the risk management responsibilities we have to
26:49
mitigate any litigation or liability.
26:53
You know, here's the how we prepare your taxes.
26:56
Here's how we provide you with royalty accounting.
26:59
And, and it was, frankly, it was impressive enough.
27:02
And the reason she hired me was I was the only one that brought
27:05
visual aids. Now, Fast forward, I'm in my act
27:10
of addiction, I'm gambling, I'm embezzling from her.
27:13
Every month I would go to her house and present to her
27:16
cockamamie spreadsheets that had she asked just one time, can you
27:21
show me the bank statements so I can see and reconcile what
27:26
you're presenting me on an Excel spreadsheet?
27:28
I would have been caught right then and there.
27:30
So every time I went there, I had this fear that she would ask
27:33
me. And I wish she did in hindsight,
27:36
right? It would have helped because I
27:37
still didn't have the courage because of my ego to ask for
27:41
that help. But.
27:43
Personal life Jonathan, you with your wife and kids?
27:47
Like, how is that lane going with this craziness that's going
27:51
on in your secret world? You know, I thought I was a good
27:55
father. I thought I was a great father
27:58
to three kids that coached their youth sports.
28:00
But the truth is once I became involved in active addiction for
28:05
six years, I was not emotionally present.
28:07
But I didn't recognize that during those that period of
28:11
time. So I wasn't a great father as
28:13
much as I would have liked to viewed myself as one.
28:16
The truth is I was physically present but not emotionally
28:20
present. You know, because I'm watching
28:22
the scores in the dugout as I'm coaching the, the youth.
28:25
The kids created a a sports room so that the kids can come watch
28:30
with daddy all the games every day.
28:32
And I didn't just bet on a game like who's going to win?
28:35
I bet teasers, parlays, first half.
28:37
It was I was a complete degenerate and I bet on the
28:40
whole board. I didn't just pick one game.
28:42
I bet on every game humanly possible.
28:45
It was, I had to hide, you know, my emotions when the kids were
28:49
in there. You know, I would, I would jump
28:52
for joy when it was going my way, but then when it did and I
28:55
would just be like numb and not let them see that.
28:58
But unfortunately, I wasn't the father that I thought I was.
29:03
I'm still trying to earn back the trust of I have three
29:05
beautiful boys, my middle son and it's been over 10 years.
29:10
But you know what, I in recovery and I have a strong recovery.
29:15
I accept that I hurt him and hurt all the kids and it doesn't
29:20
happen on my timeline. It's going to happen when my
29:23
higher power brings my son back into my life and my my biggest
29:28
joy will be when I'm under the same roof as my three children.
29:33
I miss him, I love him. I speak with my younger son
29:36
everyday. I speak to my older son few
29:38
times a year. I see him in person and these
29:42
are again, we talk about consequences like there's nobody
29:45
to blame but me. And I take full responsibility
29:48
for rupturing my family's dynamics, hurting my ex-wife,
29:52
infidelity. I was definitely not a good
29:54
husband. She deserved a much better
29:56
person than me. And, you know, I just, I wasn't
30:00
proud of it and it's a ripple effect really impacted my family
30:04
and a lot of other people. So when does the nightmare land
30:09
on you? When, When?
30:10
It's like, oh, that's the call. So I am in Santa Barbara with my
30:16
ex-wife at the time, my wife. We were supposed to be
30:20
celebrating our 23 year anniversary.
30:23
We had some separation during I would say the few years before
30:26
that. But at this hotel we were
30:29
celebrating, I received a call from Michael Oppenheim and he
30:31
said we'd like you to come down to Beverly Hills and take a lie
30:36
detector test because I told them I would.
30:38
I was trying to play poker with them.
30:40
But unfortunately they accepted my invitation.
30:43
And so I learned about it by a phone call.
30:44
It was. And I I answered the call and I
30:47
said, well, I'm on celebrating my anniversary.
30:50
And they're like, you need to come down and meet this former
30:53
FBI agents top polygrapher. So I decided this is probably I
30:59
don't even know what number of genius ideas I've had shared
31:01
with you so far, but call this another genius idea.
31:04
I decided to Google how to beat a lie detector test.
31:09
Now mind you, I'm doing countless lines of cocaine.
31:13
I'm placing bets and. That can't be a good
31:17
combination. It can't be a good.
31:18
Combination right before you do a lie detector test because if
31:21
anything that amps you up to to another level.
31:25
Well that was the night I was Googling.
31:26
So the worse than that is I took a whole bunch of cocaine with me
31:30
on the drive down to the lie detector test which happened to
31:33
be I believe May 8th 2016 because my sober date is May
31:37
9th. And on May 8th making my last
31:41
bet to my bookie doing lines for the last time I get to the
31:45
polygraphers office. I'm completely arrogant because
31:48
I of course researched it on Google and put my feet up on his
31:53
desk like a big shot and I'm establishing this wonderful
31:57
rapport with them. What I forgot to read with it on
32:01
the on Google is it's his responsibility to establish a.
32:05
Report create the rapport exactly.
32:09
I am thinking I got this. I'm going to.
32:10
Be I'm killing this, this guy. Loves me.
32:14
So Long story short, I called my attorney when I returned back
32:18
after the test to the hotel, and I learned that I failed the test
32:22
worse than anybody in his polygrapher's career.
32:25
And so that was that moment where reality set in.
32:29
And my attorney said, you need to come see me tomorrow and we
32:32
need to figure out a strategy. And I had a great attorney.
32:36
He's now the District Attorney of Los Angeles, Mr. Nathan
32:39
Hochman, and he worked out a plea agreement for four to six
32:43
years. I I thought I was going to get
32:47
23. I was happy with the plea
32:49
agreement, but you know as well as I do that when you walk in on
32:51
sentencing, the judge has a right to deviate up or down.
32:55
Absolutely. And the prosecutor was asked,
32:57
the prosecution team, excuse me, was asking for five years.
33:01
The judge gave me 6. And the judge could have given
33:04
me much more. In fact, when she went to her
33:06
chambers, she wanted, she kind of alluded to the fact that she
33:09
was going to give me 10 or more years.
33:11
And so my, I was like, I don't know what I'm going to do.
33:15
And I'm grateful today and to the judge for giving me the six
33:20
years. I deserved it.
33:24
I deserved everything that the judge said and everything that I
33:28
did deserve the consequences that I received.
33:32
Well, let's talk about, let's take a break here because I want
33:35
to talk about what happens on the next step because you, well,
33:38
what you just LED up to is everything that you knew to that
33:41
point. You're going into the unknown
33:43
world, someplace you never thought you were going to be.
33:45
I want to talk about how you stepped into that world.
33:48
But before we do, a lot of people don't like how they show
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Itsnot.com Listeners of Nightmare Success can take $100
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And the Nightmare Success Podcast is sponsored by the
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White Collar Support Group, the world's first support group
34:27
devoted to people navigating the white collar criminal justice
34:30
system. I'm a member of the White Collar
34:32
Support Group, and I can tell you that this is a bunch of
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people who help each other through the criminal justice
34:37
journey for free. Whether you're just starting
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your journey or you made it through to the other side, this
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is great space for you. You can join us on Zoom Monday,
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prisonist.org. It's prisonist.org.
34:49
OK, Jonathan, so you get this sentence, you get 6 years.
34:55
That's not a small sentence. Obviously you like you said, you
34:58
could have gotten 23. That was, you know, those
35:00
guidelines are crazy. You know, sometimes they can
35:02
stack charges and they're killer 20 years at a time in the
35:06
federal system. So you, you, you look at
35:07
hundreds of years, but when you get there, do you voluntarily
35:14
surrender or, or OK, so you're not immediately remanded, You
35:17
voluntarily surrender. You, you show up.
35:21
What, what's going through your mind on how I, how am I going to
35:24
handle this? Because you've now you're sober,
35:27
right? So you're walking into prison,
35:29
federal prison sober. What's, what's going through
35:33
your mind on what's my next step?
35:35
How am I going to handle this? So I was pretty, I was like
35:38
quasi prepared in the sense that I hired a prison consultant to
35:42
kind of help me understand, yeah, am I going to be raped in
35:46
prison? My sons were worried.
35:47
Am I, You know, And I wanted him, really hired him really to
35:51
share with my boys that this is what that was going to go
35:53
through. He said federal camp, he's going
35:55
to be safe as long as he keeps his head down and the minds, his
35:59
P's and Q's and just, you know, focused on healing.
36:02
And so I knew that my kids were at least temporarily OK with
36:06
that. And so I, the judge allowed me
36:10
to spend two months after sentencing at home and I was
36:15
able to spend quality time with my youngest son.
36:18
He was going off to camp and that was really something
36:20
important to me. And so when I surrendered on
36:23
July 11th of 2000, seventeenth, you know, you never know when
36:30
you surrender if they're going to keep you in a holding cell
36:32
for X period of time because they're they're doing all the
36:35
paperwork. So when they put me in that
36:37
cell. Well, and I think some of it's
36:39
just a mess with you, you know, I, I've, I've, I thought I've
36:42
thought through that. Like when I, when I went in, you
36:45
know, and they just put me in this cell and, and like at
36:48
Leavenworth, there's the penitentiary and there was the
36:50
camp. And so your first thought is,
36:52
is, well, I wonder if they know I'm not supposed to be here.
36:56
And then what does that sound like?
36:58
I'm, I'm knocking on this cell door saying, hey, actually, am I
37:00
supposed to be? That doesn't work.
37:03
But you know, they put you in there for a few hours just to, I
37:06
think, mess with you on the fact that this is something you have
37:09
no control over. Your control has left the
37:13
building. And whatever is happening now,
37:15
who knows? I didn't know if I was going to
37:17
be there for a few hours or probably I was going to be there
37:19
locked up because they made a mistake.
37:23
So, so you get, you get in there, you get in the cell and
37:26
walk us through. Yeah, so then they put you in
37:29
the, you know, they process me and I was fortunate enough to be
37:33
able to walk down to the camp maybe after like 3 or 4 hours.
37:38
And, you know, everyone knows who's the newbies are because
37:40
you're wearing your orange Crocs and your green uniform, which
37:43
they wear their greens, but the orange Crocs gives it away.
37:46
I was fortunate enough that the prison consultant I retained
37:49
also had a few people at the prison, so he contacted one of
37:54
my dearest friends from prison, his wife, to let to let to get a
37:59
message to him when she visits that Jonathan is coming on this
38:02
day. Please be on the lookout for
38:03
him. Thankfully he was on the lookout
38:05
for me and I'm forever grateful to him because he he guided me
38:12
for many months. First of all, after six months
38:14
of crying every day, he said you got to stop crying, stop
38:19
counting your days, you know, so I started counting the Super
38:22
Bowls. He got me a great job in
38:23
education. He got me a great job working up
38:26
where the CE OS work as a barista and so.
38:32
Which I think is I, I don't want to gloss over that.
38:35
I think that's a big tip for prison for people that are
38:38
listening to this, that are, are thinking or they're, they're in
38:41
the throes of, of going to prison.
38:43
Really try as much as you can to kill your time, finding a good
38:48
job, something that you can kill your time with.
38:51
Because a lot of guys, you know, they'll go do that kitchen job.
38:54
You know, there's 15 minutes or 20 minutes or whatever.
38:56
And then they've got the whole data to be stuck in time.
38:59
Whereas if you can get it something I worked at the food
39:04
warehouse. So you know, I got forklift
39:05
certified. I was the clerk and it actually
39:08
kind of kept me engaged my mind and my my thing and I I'm sure
39:14
yours too was Jonathan is I had this fear of like, I don't want
39:18
to become prison Brent. I don't know what prison Brent
39:20
is is. I guess it's that
39:22
institutionalized guy that I'm scared of.
39:24
But I think what you just said there is a really good tip for
39:28
people you found things to because the opportunities are
39:34
there if you work towards them. Absolutely, absolutely.
39:38
And listen, I would have taken any job, but I'm glad that I got
39:40
the education job. It made my life a little easier.
39:43
It allowed me to meet all inmates because they wanted to
39:46
use the computer and there was a huge waiting list, so I really
39:50
got to know all the inmates. I mean, I was with about 450
39:54
plus inmates and I got to do so many things.
39:58
I got to teach accounting at night, I got to attend classes.
40:01
There were a lot of smarter people than me there that was
40:03
able to learn from. I ran a victim impact program
40:07
which was really rewarding. I worked with the CEO
40:10
responsible for that where every, you know, few weeks and I
40:14
think it was 7 plus weeks, we would have a new set of about
40:17
7-8 guys that participated in this.
40:20
They got credit for participating in it.
40:23
And the my role was to help them see that they have victims as a
40:27
result of their crime or other poor choices and to and to make
40:31
amends to those victims. And, and it was really rewarding
40:35
because I would hear these same guys on the phone with their
40:37
wives or girlfriends or baby Mamas, you know, using the F
40:42
bomb and talking disrespectfully to them.
40:45
And after a few weeks of taking this course, I would hear a
40:47
whole different person saying, honey, thank you for taking care
40:50
of our children while I'm here. I love you.
40:53
I'm sorry for the way I used to talk to you because they could
40:56
start to recognize their victims.
40:58
And that was a beautiful and rewarding way of me being of
41:02
service in prison. And listen, I.
41:06
Like that? Yeah, I read a lot.
41:09
I had to, I mean, it had to be rewarding for you because you
41:11
know, it's, it's finding something in the prison, giving
41:16
back. It, it, it makes you feel
41:19
because you're in a bad place. So if you can make yourself feel
41:22
better by helping other people, that's a big deal.
41:24
It was a big deal, and it gave me an opportunity to really
41:27
learn who a person is. You know what?
41:29
I didn't go there judge mental, but did I judge people?
41:34
Yes. Did I judge a book by its cover?
41:36
Yes. What I learned in prison is if
41:39
you take the time to get to know everybody from different
41:42
socioeconomic statuses to different races or religions or
41:46
color, if you really take the time to get to know them as I
41:49
did, at their core they have the same values.
41:52
Not the values that are you are utilized during my criminal
41:56
behavior, but the values, you know, pre and post and post
42:00
being including, you know, prison.
42:03
They have kids at home. They worry about how their kids
42:06
are going to be fed by their baby Mama.
42:08
And you know, and there were drug dealers and, you know, I'd
42:13
ask the drug dealers when they go home, are they going to
42:15
continue to do that? And they said, if that's what it
42:17
takes me to put food on the table for the kids, then I'm
42:20
going to do it. My response was, but they're
42:22
doing it now without you doing that.
42:24
And I would try and encourage them to try and get, even if
42:26
it's McDonald's, just go get a job that's legal.
42:30
You can provide that way for your family.
42:32
But my point is that when I I really got along with most every
42:37
inmate. I think that's was one of the
42:40
biggest things that was a shock to me was how many good people
42:47
that I ran across in prison because it wasn't my thought
42:54
going in. My thought was, is I'm going to
42:56
get raped, am I going to get in a lot of fights?
42:58
Am I got whatever those things are that you see on TV and
43:00
whatever? And I was my my situation was a
43:04
lot like yours, Jonathan is a lot of people helped me when I
43:06
got there. And then I found people that I
43:09
would have never have met in my life.
43:12
And we all got along. Yeah, yeah.
43:17
And some I, I speak to at least three to five guys, you know,
43:20
not all the time, but one, the one in particular that helped
43:23
me, I see him a lot. He's up in Sacramento.
43:27
I'm here in LA He, you know, him and his wife.
43:29
He's got a beautiful family and those are the people that I
43:32
consider quality friends today. Yeah.
43:36
So I know your, your, your case got a good amount of publicity.
43:43
What were you thinking as as you were getting closer towards
43:47
getting out, What were your thoughts about re entering?
43:52
Because re entering is not easy. Yeah, I thought I would have to
43:57
stay at a halfway house, but I was fortunate enough that the
44:02
government let me do 16 months of home confinement with an
44:05
ankle monitor that was almost worse than prison because you're
44:09
limited to movement. So the Jewish hypochondriac that
44:13
I am, I tried to take advantage of booking medical appointment
44:17
after medical appointment because that was my excuse and
44:19
approval to go to my doctor's. You're allowed to go grocery
44:23
shopping once, maybe twice a week at best.
44:26
You get to go to a job outside that you can't move.
44:29
And again, I'd rather be on home confinement on an ankle monitor
44:35
than being in the halfway house at that point.
44:38
Re entering society was very challenging for me.
44:40
I was broke. It was during COVID.
44:44
I received some COVID rental relief, which was really
44:47
necessary for me to pay for my studio apartment.
44:51
My mom and stepfather helped me. I was, I was blessed because if
44:57
not for my mom and stepdad, to be honest, I probably would have
44:59
been on the streets homeless. And I was prepared for that.
45:04
And I'm glad that unfortunately for me, I hate to say this, but
45:09
because of COVID, I was able to have this studio apartment along
45:12
with the help of my mom and and stepdad and it was hard getting
45:15
a job. I'm a felon.
45:16
I'm still a felon. I will always be labeled A
45:19
felon. And it's a.
45:20
Life sentence. It's a life sentence and that's
45:22
OK. But it, I, I thought it would be
45:26
easier to reintegrate into society.
45:28
But I faced a lot of challenges and whether it was financial
45:31
challenges or work challenges, you know, I got fired from one
45:36
job and, and, and another job with the Department of Motor
45:41
Vehicles. I was working as a salesperson.
45:44
I don't know nothing about cars. And I was doing a good job.
45:47
I was being really honest. I was still very much immersed
45:50
in the 12 step, practicing rigorous honesty as an auto
45:54
salesperson, I would say, look the customer in the eye and say
45:57
I'm giving you the best price. And I was because they were
46:00
working with a company called TrueCar and TrueCar has the best
46:03
pricing. So I said, go tell my manager
46:05
that you got the pricing from TrueCar.
46:07
It'll be the best deal that this this dealership can give you.
46:11
And that was the truth and about I received the provisional
46:15
license. So in California as an auto
46:17
salesperson, they give you this provisional license for three to
46:20
four months after they do a background search.
46:22
You're either approved or you're not.
46:23
So about, I'm sorry, three to four months.
46:26
So after about 3 months, I, I get a letter that because of my
46:30
background, I'm not allowed to work.
46:32
And so I decided that I was going to.
46:34
Which is, you know, I, I, I think this is something, a topic
46:38
that I, it's, it comes up a lot, but it's, you know, the barriers
46:42
you would, you would expect to run against from somebody who
46:47
has a private business. You know, I'm just not going to
46:50
hire an ex felon, not going to hire a felon, not gonna hire
46:53
somebody with a record. And it's it's legal.
46:55
It's legal to discriminate. What I find fascinating is, is
46:59
that the state, the government actually discriminates when
47:02
licensing comes with the way you're talking about Jonathan.
47:05
Or if you wanted to get an insurance or if you want to get
47:07
a real estate license or if you want to get a Barber license,
47:09
all these different things. That's the state saying, no,
47:12
you're not done. There's no, there's no period on
47:15
the end of this sentence. And I don't know, you know, I,
47:21
I, I work with re entry stuff all the time.
47:24
It's getting better. But man, it's a big it's a big
47:28
mountain hurdle because in your case, you're one of the top five
47:33
guys in Hollywood managing millions of dollars and you are
47:38
having a hard time just finding a job that will accept you.
47:42
And by the way, you did get fired from Dunkin' Donuts.
47:45
I didn't know if you were going to bring that up.
47:46
I find that funny. Just because you you didn't
47:52
really like working at Dunkin' Donuts.
47:53
I think you were kind of ready to get like go there.
47:56
I think so, no. But to your point, like I was
48:00
well educated, right? And I thought it would be easier
48:04
to transition than it really was.
48:06
But honestly, what happened with the with this auto salesperson?
48:09
In short, I'll give you the quick version.
48:12
I decided to take in a make an appeal and represent myself on
48:15
Zoom. So there was this judge and a
48:17
head lawyer from the Department of Motor Vehicles.
48:20
The judge said, Jonathan, I've never seen or received so many
48:24
rehabilitation letters, character reference letters from
48:27
esteemed people, respectful professionals and I, and I see
48:32
no reason why you can't continue.
48:33
It's not like you're going to work in the finance department
48:36
and you're having to deal with money.
48:38
You're an auto salesperson. You don't put the contracts
48:40
together. So I'm thinking, OK, she'll
48:44
she'll render a decision that I can go back to work.
48:47
And so this Department of Motor Vehicles guy gets on involved,
48:50
inserts himself, and I'll never forget this.
48:53
He said, your honor, auto salespeople is the number one
48:58
profession filled with people of integrity.
49:01
So therefore, I don't want to give Jonathan the right to work.
49:06
And I'm thinking to myself and for anyone out there that's an
49:09
auto salesperson, no disrespect intended, but it's absolutely
49:12
not the number one profession with a makeup of people with
49:16
integrity. Doesn't mean there's not a lot
49:17
of people, auto sales people that do, but I was one that
49:20
really, as I said earlier, And so that was like my breaking
49:25
point where I prayed to my higher power, I surrendered to
49:28
my higher power and my higher power said, schmuck, I need you
49:31
to go to addiction studies school, get your K DAC.
49:34
I want you to go to grad school, become an MFT to specialize in
49:38
addiction and trauma so you can help your brothers and sisters.
49:42
And that's what I needed. And today that's what I do.
49:45
And that much like the joy I mentioned with the victim impact
49:49
in prison, in the real world, this is the greatest career I've
49:54
ever entered into. I'm able to help countless men
49:57
and women who struggle with addiction, mental health and
50:00
trauma and just be there as the most empathetic human and help
50:06
them in any way I can. As I said earlier, I make very
50:10
little money. But this is not about money.
50:11
This is about what brings me joy inside my soul, what I'm
50:16
passionate about. And yeah, do I struggle today
50:18
financially? Absolutely, but I don't struggle
50:22
with wanting to help people and them allowing me the privilege
50:24
to work with them. Well, I think it's great that
50:27
they took an opportunity, gave you an opportunity, because I
50:32
think the type of work that you're doing, Jonathan, all the,
50:36
that you went through and how it humbled you and brought you to
50:39
where you are, What a help you can be to people who are
50:44
struggling. Because you know, when you hit
50:48
rock bottom, you, it's a binary choice.
50:50
You either stay there or you get up and you got up and you can
50:54
show people's ways to get up because you had to get up, you
50:58
didn't stay there. So I think it's Absolutely
51:01
Fabulous. I how did you get that job?
51:05
Because or how and the other question I was going to ask you,
51:07
how long did it take you to get educated up to the point where
51:11
you were going to go out and and get this job?
51:15
Yeah, so the K DAC wasn't that hard to get, just like seven
51:19
months of addiction studies. Then you have to earn some
51:21
hours. The grad school took about two
51:23
years, but it was funny because I was the oldest one obviously
51:28
at this point in grad school. And but I was also, I also took
51:32
it serious, like I didn't take high school or undergrad
51:35
serious. Like I really wanted to learn
51:38
again, like not like I talked about with my cousin, but just I
51:42
wanted to really be a good student.
51:44
And because if I wasn't a good student, how would I become a
51:49
good therapist? And so I really worked hard in
51:52
school. I learned a lot.
51:55
And I had this beautiful woman at Altus Rehab who owns the
51:59
place. Give me a chance despite being a
52:01
felon to work for her. I started out as a case manager.
52:04
I worked the suicide crisis line 988DD Hirsch for a year so I
52:09
could understand the population of people who try to you'll have
52:12
suicidal ideation learned that that's mostly a population with
52:17
people struggling with addiction and mental health.
52:19
So I knew I was in the right place.
52:21
I was learning from that job. I was learning from school.
52:24
And this owner gave me, you know, she gave me an opportunity
52:27
to work as a case manager and then she promoted me once I went
52:31
from an intern to an AMFT. And I giving therapy was just so
52:35
beautiful. And I'm just blessed that she
52:39
knew everything about me but saw something in me that said I
52:43
could add value to her already existing.
52:46
Great team and I'll never forget that.
52:49
Wow, I absolutely love that. And it had to be somebody you
52:54
had to tell your story to be comfortable and she had to
52:58
accept it. And then you're able to help
52:59
people it it that's the type of stuff that that impacts lives is
53:05
is what you had to do to get to that point.
53:08
But then somebody gave you that as an opportunity and you took
53:12
it and you were ready for it. And I love it.
53:14
What? Jonna, what do you think after
53:18
everything that you've been through, What do you think's
53:20
your biggest take away through all of it?
53:24
That I wish. My hope is to tour the world and
53:27
to help men. Specifically, I want to be the
53:29
male version of Brené Brown. I want to spread many messages.
53:34
Some of them are to have the courage to ask for help, be
53:36
vulnerable, be your authentic self, be transparent, surround
53:42
yourself with quality people, and just do the next right
53:47
thing. And take personal accountability
53:49
for your poor mistakes. Like I'm a firm believer in
53:52
taking personal accountability for all of my poor choices and
53:55
owning it. And be emotionally present for
53:58
your loved ones and start to love yourself.
54:03
Great take away, great take away.
54:05
If people want to get a hold of you, Jonathan, what's what would
54:11
be the best way to contact you? They can follow me on my
54:15
professional Instagram, which is.
54:18
At the Jonathan's. Yeah, at the real Jonathan
54:21
Schwartz. The real Jonathan Schwartz.
54:23
Yeah. Real Jonathan Schwartz.
54:27
Yeah. Wow, it's good stuff.
54:31
I want to also give a shout out to Homestead Financial who lets
54:33
me use this podcast room with the fancy cameras and stuff.
54:37
If you got any home mortgage needs out there, Greg AFTI, if
54:40
it's your guy, he knows all that stuff.
54:42
If you're looking for a book out there, I've got one.
54:45
It's not my success, Loyalty, betrayal, life behind bars,
54:48
adapting, finally breaking free, Got time?
54:50
Leave me a review on Apple. It's just really helps the show.
54:53
Want to know more about what I'm doing?
54:55
Go to brickcasting.com. I spell it wrong.
54:57
I spell it with ATY, not a DY, as I used to say to my people
55:03
when I was writing my emails back and forth from Leavenworth.
55:05
Stay strong, I'll do the same. Jonathan Schwartz Man, what a
55:08
story and what a comeback. I love what you're doing helping
55:12
people and it's got to make you feel all whole inside.
55:15
Thank you. Dimer success in and out.