Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #91 If God Knows What I Need, Why Do I Need to Pray?

Transcript

#91 If God Knows What I Need, Why Do I Need to Pray? · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Bat fans, riddle me this.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: If God is all loving,
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: and if God is all knowing,
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: and God knows exactly what you need,
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: why should you pray?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Why does Jesus talk so much about prayer?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Why did Jesus pray for heaven's sake?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: He had a pipeline to God.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Why is prayer so important?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we know it is because anytime we're going through anything,
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: people say,
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: you pray for me.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Or when a tragedy happens in the world, we're praying for you.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: So we know there's something powerful about prayer,
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: but really for heaven's sake,
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: why do we have to have prayer if God already knows all this stuff?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we are launching today a multi-week series here on the Wonder,
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: not the Wonder,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: sorry,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: wrong podcast,
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: the Deep Grace Diving Podcast.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm here with John Burgess and Terry Summers,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: and we're going to really dive into the Lord's Prayer starting next week,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: because Jesus gives us that as a model for prayer,
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: and we'll spend a few weeks on it.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: I thought today,
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: though,
• 1:21
  we would just spend some time talking about prayer and our own
• 1:24
  experiences with
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: prayer.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'll speak for myself.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: I've had a lot of ups and downs with prayer.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: What's the right way to do it?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: How to do it?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Feeling guilty because I don't do it enough or do it the right way.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm guessing I'm not alone.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're going to talk a bit about prayer,
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: what it is,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: why we do it,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: the things we struggle with,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: maybe a few ideas on how to jumpstart your prayer life.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then next week,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: we'll look at what Jesus has to say about actually how to pray,
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: which is really more than about how to pray.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's a primer on the character of God.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to start with Terry Summers,
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: who right before this podcast asked if we would pray for her.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So she obviously believes in prayer.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Terry,
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: talk a little bit about your relationship with prayer,
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: maybe where you've been,
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: where you are,
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: what you think about it,
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: what you don't think about it,
• 2:15
  anything you want to say about prayer that you think might be
• 2:17
  an insight into the
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: prayer life of Terry Summers.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just thinking about,
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: my childhood,
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: and I was very aware of listening to people pray,
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: and
• 2:34
  And then as I became an adult,
• 2:36
  I had this aversion to say anything like anyone else was
• 2:40
  saying.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if that's like a rebel in me,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: but I have like a check thing about not falling into something...
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: simply familiar.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's across the board in my life.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I will say this, because I think I could talk for a long time.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: As you know, rimshot, hit it.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Which we love.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I have this.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: But as of the past 18 months, which it's been just over,
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I losing Jonathan.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, painful.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not dismissing that.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about my grief on this show podcast, but being alone here.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have children.
• 3:35
  He,
• 3:37
  he and I,
• 3:38
  neither of us had biological children and a little isolated in
• 3:44
  general.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: I am by the nature of grieving.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think more than anything,
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I talk to God like I'm talking to you.
• 3:59
  And in the wee morning hours and when I wake up in the middle
• 4:05
  of the night.
• 4:05
  And I know that there's a part of me that feels like that's not
• 4:10
  fully legit.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's an old thing I carry around that I didn't open.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's these acronyms.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think one I heard years ago was called SOAP.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So S was for supplication.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember what the O was for.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: A, application.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And P was for praise.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: So am I checking all those boxes?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, not necessarily.
• 4:32
  But I feel like prayer has been a conversation that I've been
• 4:38
  having more and more honestly.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Frequently.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: It feels so real.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if I'm quote unquote doing it right.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 5:05
  and I'm what I'm a person who wants to tell me what to do and I
• 5:10
  want to do it right
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: and well and I want to obey.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so this has just been from my heart as I really.
• 5:22
  make my way through what i don't recognize anymore so it's been
• 5:28
  everything to me
• 5:29
  and well that's enough for right now you asked the question so
• 5:35
  you got it yeah good
• 5:36
  job terry well done well you almost summarized prayer for us so
• 5:41
  there'll be a lot
• 5:42
  that we can bounce back to on that one um yeah thank you terry
• 5:45
  john how about you
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: yeah
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: as always,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: I look at this topic and,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: and Terry gets us right to the heart and I don't think I'm there yet.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I, you know, I work,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: I remember that on the good days,
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: I remember the words of Michael Iaconelli in his book,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Dangerous Wonder,
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: and I'm going to paraphrase them.
• 6:09
  But basically,
• 6:10
  he's struggling with what does prayer mean and how prayerful
• 6:14
  should I be?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: And does that mean I sort of,
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: this is a paraphrase,
• 6:18
  walk around with sort of this in this existential state all day
• 6:21
  long as I'm
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: communing with the ever living God?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the direction he got back was actually,
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_03: Terry,
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: exactly what you said,
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: which is that prayer is this conversation.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's this inviting God into moments of your day.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, that's a good day when I do that.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: And more likely than not, my day will be just full of the day-ness.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I get into bed and I'm like, wow, I should really
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: you know, where was my prayer life today?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: What do I want to do?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then the next words that come in for me,
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: Tim and Terry are,
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: and I think Terry's going to read these again,
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: but you know,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: when you pray,
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: don't babble on and on as the Gentiles do.
• 7:04
  They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their
• 7:07
  words again and again.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, well, but right now I might only have the Lord's prayer.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: I like, that's what I've got.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope that it's good enough.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then I go through the word Lord's prayer and I try not it to be
• 7:18
  merely repeating words but you know i'm repeating words and
• 7:22
  frankly some night i
• 7:23
  don't think i get through the lord's prayer before i drift off
• 7:26
  so this is what i
• 7:27
  was saying to tim a few weeks ago and i thought maybe i'm not
• 7:31
  alone you know and i
• 7:33
  i i am jealous of the emotion that terry brings when she's
• 7:38
  discovering her prayer
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: life because most days i don't have that emotion i have like
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: man, this is my tiny offering, and I hope that it works.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, John.
• 7:57
  Because I'm a professional Christian,
• 8:00
  I have always had to make sure that I'm doing it right.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because how can I lead people if I'm not praying the way I should pray?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I've tried a lot of different things in my life, which is great.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think part of the key of a prayer life is just to experiment.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: And there are some seasons where something might work,
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: and there are seasons where it doesn't work,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: and you do something else.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: And before I go through some of my different prayer iterations,
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's probably helpful to just emphasize what you both say here.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: When we ask the question,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: if God knows what I need,
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: and if God is loving,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: then why should I pray?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: What we've done is we've,
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: that question,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: and it's a fair question,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: so I'm not trying to pick on anybody,
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: but we've made prayer a transaction rather than a relational word.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Prayer is something I do to get God to act on my behalf.
• 9:00
  It's sort of like sitting in Santa's lap and saying,
• 9:02
  this is what I want today.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, there's nothing wrong with that part of prayer.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Part of the Lord's prayer is give us this day our daily bread, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you're asking God for provisions,
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: for things,
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: nothing wrong with that,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: but that's not the heart and soul of prayer.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: The heart and soul of prayer is conversation and relationship.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: it's living in the constant awareness that Jesus is just a prayer away,
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: a conversation away.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: And, um, uh, we, we've all been married.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 9:39
  We all know what it would be like if all the only conversation
• 9:42
  we ever had with our
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: spouse was,
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: would you please do this for me?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Would you please do that for me?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: The only time we talked was to ask for something.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: The reason why we talk with our spouses and in Carrie's case,
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: talked with her spouse,
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: probably still does sometimes,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: is not to ask for things,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: but to be in relationship,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: to share our hearts with each other.
• 10:06
  And a lot of times when you just analyze the conversation of
• 10:10
  most marriages,
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: it's pretty darn mundane.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just I got the towels washed and they're put away.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: Great, honey.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for doing that.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm going to sit down and work on taxes today.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's just mundane stuff.
• 10:27
  But that's the heart and soul of what keeps a relationship
• 10:30
  together is the sharing
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: of life together and to do it in part through conversation.
• 10:36
  Now,
• 10:36
  at the same time,
• 10:37
  imagine a relationship where you never talk to each other.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, she knows what I need.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I told her I loved her 45 years ago at the altar.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: She needs to hear it again.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's her problem.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the marriage would just implode.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: So prayer isn't first and foremost about asking God for things.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's about living in this conversational relationship.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so really the,
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: the,
• 11:00
  the question of prayer is what does that conversational
• 11:04
  relationship look like for
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: me?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: What works best for me?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And, and, um,
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we all know we've got personality stuff involved.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Some of us, you know, really are emotive people.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Some of us are more reason-based people.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: We've got different love languages, you know, all that stuff.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: So even though prayer is about this relationship,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: it's going to take different forms for all of us.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a guy,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: I feel deeply,
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: I can be very intuitive,
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm also,
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: pretty rational and practical.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I like, you know, A, B, C, and D, or did for a lot of my life anyway.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I would, you know, I was raised in a home where we'd pray.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: We had devotions every night around the table.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Our mom or dad would read a little story and we'd pray together.
• 11:53
  My mom would pray for us and pray with us at night before bed,
• 11:56
  before we went to school.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was a part of our lives.
• 12:00
  I've always been a believer in Jesus,
• 12:02
  so prayer has been a part of my life.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: But,
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 12:06
  I always wanted to find what is that one thing that will really
• 12:09
  make my prayer life
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: sing,
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 12:13
  And,
• 12:13
  you know,
• 12:14
  I've read books by some of these religious greats who'd get up
• 12:17
  like Luther.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Man, he'd get up two or three in the morning and pray for an hour.
• 12:23
  Holy cow,
• 12:24
  if I can get three minutes,
• 12:25
  I feel like I've just won the marathon.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: and I think it was Luther who said the busier my day,
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: the earlier I get up to pray and the longer I pray.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think, man, the busier my day, the less time I have for prayer.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:38
  So you kind of look at these spiritual giants and we compare
• 12:42
  our lives to them.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and we always sort of come up wanting.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so I, you know, I've tried it.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: I tried getting up early.
• 12:50
  I'd take out my notebook and I'd write down all my prayer
• 12:53
  requests and I just go
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: through all that stuff.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: For a while, it worked.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: I've been down that road.
• 13:04
  I've been down the road of trying to first thing in the morning
• 13:09
  is wake up and pray
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: a little bit.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: That was before Facebook.
• 13:16
  So,
• 13:17
  I mean,
• 13:17
  the first thing you got to do now is check Facebook,
• 13:20
  of course.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, praying at night.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Holy cow.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you can't fall asleep, just try praying at night.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: You'll be out in a second.
• 13:32
  And,
• 13:34
  you know,
• 13:34
  what's so interesting when I was a kid and maybe some of you
• 13:38
  heard this.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: When you go to sleep at night and you're praying and you fall asleep,
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: that's the devil using prayer to make you fall asleep.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Are you kidding me?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: How about it?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: People always want to make you feel guilty.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: You're just not doing it right.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then I don't know how many years in the ministry I was,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: but I was reading a book for pastors about prayer.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a really gracious book.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: And.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: basically the writer said, you got to find your old groove.
• 14:12
  He said,
• 14:12
  some people are really good at just setting aside that quiet
• 14:15
  time and good for them.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: He said, I'm not that kind of guy.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of do prayer throughout the day.
• 14:23
  And I have little moments when it triggers for me,
• 14:27
  okay,
• 14:27
  I'm going to pray now.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So when I get behind the wheel of my car,
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: I just,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: before I pray,
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: it just is a reminder to me,
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: all right,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just pray about something.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: And before he sits down for a meal,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: he'll pray about something and,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 14:38
  and he'll just have different things throughout the day that
• 14:40
  reminds him to pray.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, just,
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if he used this word, but it's kind of like grazing, right?
• 14:46
  Rather than eating the whole meal at once,
• 14:47
  you're grazing throughout the day.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing wrong with that.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: In fact,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: that's probably more,
• 14:53
  Jan and I don't just sit down for an hour a day and talk and
• 14:55
  they never talk to
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: each other again.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Most relationships have ongoing conversation.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly we have those times where we sit down and talk,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: but most of relationships aren't like that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Unless it's someone you haven't talked to for a while.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I and so I there was a period of time where that was great.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and I would try to get up.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: I get up really early anyway to exercise.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you can get up early to exercise, you can get up early to pray.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I I just started using my exercise time as my prayer time.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 15:36
  So when I was out walking or running and biking,
• 15:40
  I would use that for my prayer time.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I still do that.
• 15:46
  Sometimes I'm lucky to get a minute or two in before I get
• 15:50
  distracted by something.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Other times it just sort of works.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I've kind of reached a point in my life where Jesus and I are okay.
• 16:03
  And his love for me and our relationship isn't based on how
• 16:06
  much time we talk.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's just based on the fact that we're together throughout the day.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: And there'll be times when I intentionally pray about things.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: I pray for my family every day.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: I pray for my churches that I care about and friends and so on.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: But if I miss a day of prayer, I haven't really missed a day of prayer.
• 16:33
  Because if prayer is a relationship,
• 16:35
  Jesus has been there the whole time.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: We've been in relationship.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: I sort of live in this awareness that Jesus is around.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it takes some of the pressure off.
• 16:45
  I still think it's important to pray,
• 16:47
  to have an intentional time of prayer,
• 16:49
  however you do it.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's what Jesus teaches us, the Lord's Prayer.
• 16:52
  And by the way,
• 16:53
  if you pray the Lord's Prayer,
• 16:54
  I'll bet it takes you 30 seconds.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: So he's not saying pray for hours and hours.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: He gives you a 30-second prayer.
• 17:06
  So I think one of the best definitions of prayer,
• 17:09
  and John,
• 17:10
  you hinted at it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: There's a book by,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember his name,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Ogilvy,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think his name was,
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: an old Norwegian guy.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And basically he said, this is the essence of prayer.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's inviting Jesus in.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Prayer is inviting Jesus in.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: however we do that,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: if we've got our prayer lists,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: if we just throughout the day are thinking about something and,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: hey,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: this is a good thing to pray about right now.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: If it's sort of living in that awareness that Jesus is there.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 17:43
  sometimes Jan and I have been married long enough where more
• 17:47
  often than not,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: we'll sit down,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: eat a meal together and not say a thing.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: And to be clear, you're not mad at each other.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Not mad at each other.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: We are just comfortable with each other and the silence.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: But we're connected, right?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like I don't think she's there and I'm not.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's a different kind of prayer, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Just being together in that relational space.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, God says, be still and know that I am God.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's part of prayer.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Breathing, part of prayer.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: so there's,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: so hopefully,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 18:21
  just this little bit of conversation will set some people free
• 18:24
  to kind of find your
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: own way.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to make another,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: comment and then Terry,
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to have you read a passage and we'll,
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: we'll tease it out a little bit before we go.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you mentioned, uh, the word soap as an acronym for, was it soap?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes those can be helpful for people, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Especially people who kind of want a little jumpstart.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: And the one that I always had was ACT, A-C-T, right?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Adoration, which means to pray or to praise, to praise God.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Confession,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: which let's remind ourselves,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: confession isn't just about,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm such a bad person.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot to do this, this, and this.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Confession is really basically saying Jesus is,
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm nothing without you.
• 19:12
  I just invite you into my life and whatever mess I've made of
• 19:16
  it today,
• 19:16
  I give it to you.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then thanks.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thanksgiving.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was acts actually ACTS.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: So adoration confession,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thanksgiving,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: and then supplication,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: which means that's where you kind of ask for things.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: So notice that's the fourth.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: in the line.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that can be a very helpful thing.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: You can do that in like four minutes, spend a minute on each one.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just a way to jumpstart your prayer life.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: And those kinds of tools can be helpful as well.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes all you got is the Lord's prayer.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that's all you need.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: If it's good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for us.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: You would think.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And let's face it, Jesus spent a lot of time in prayer.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: And what was he doing in prayer?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he was basically centering his soul on his relationship with God.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there were things he asked for.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure he prayed for his disciples,
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: but it was his relational time to be still and know that God was God.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead, John.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: So Tim,
• 20:18
  I want to ask you this because then the next sort of thing that
• 20:24
  I struggle with
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: sometimes is,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: am I talking too much?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so I remember this.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: This is a quote, widely accredited to Mother Teresa.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if it's true or not,
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: but I haven't researched it down to the final detail,
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: but it's certainly widely credited to her.
• 20:45
  Dan Rather,
• 20:46
  a CBS anchor,
• 20:47
  asks Mother Teresa what she says during her prayers.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, I listen.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so Dan turned to her and said, well, then what does God say?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: And Mother Teresa smiled with confidence and said, he listens.
• 21:04
  Then Mother Teresa added,
• 21:05
  and if you don't understand that,
• 21:07
  I can't explain it to you.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so I start praying.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think, okay, well, I'm just going to listen.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm probably going to fall asleep listening.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: Or I'm going to get frustrated because I don't hear anything.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, because I'm too matter of fact.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, well, this is my listening time, God.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: What do you have?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: So then I get back to that Mother Teresa quote.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, well, what?
• 21:29
  You know,
• 21:30
  it's easy to get yourself wrapped around the axle trying to
• 21:32
  figure that out.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: A couple of things came to my mind.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: One, I wrote this down.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: God loves the sound of your voice.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have chills.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: God loves the sound of your voice.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: You can never talk to God too much, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: In that sense.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now,
• 21:52
  obviously we can talk to God too much if we don't take the time
• 21:55
  to actually take a
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: breath and sort of say,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: are we tracking here?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes we can,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: and we sort of hinted at this in the last podcast,
• 22:05
  we can get so busy talking to God that we completely forget who
• 22:07
  God is and suddenly
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: becomes about our agenda.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: The Lord's Prayer is really about surrendering to God's agenda.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Your will be done.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Your kingdom come, right?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: But still,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: God loves the sound of your voice,
• 22:20
  just like any parent loves the sound of his or her children's
• 22:23
  voices or niece's
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: voices or grandchildren's voices.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: So listening, that's kind of a hard part of prayer.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: And again, there are different ways to listen.
• 22:35
  And folks,
• 22:36
  we're going to be talking about this stuff over and over again
• 22:38
  in this series,
• 22:39
  right?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll just remind you of this.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the ways to listen is to read some Scripture.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And you guys know me well enough.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: If you've never read Scripture before, read the Gospel of Mark.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Read a couple of paragraphs and
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then just say, God, is there something you want to say to me here?
• 22:57
  Just read it once or twice,
• 22:58
  that paragraph,
• 22:59
  and if something pops out,
• 23:00
  great.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: You might even pray about it.
• 23:03
  Or it may not be anything,
• 23:05
  but at least it's in your brain for a few minutes.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: God spoke to you.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Some people are really good at just sitting quietly, and they hear God.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: They sense God saying something to them.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not good like that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: For me,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: when I tend to hear God,
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: which is going to sound ironic to people,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: I tend to hear God when I'm busy.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: When I'm thinking about...
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: When I was a pastor,
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: for example,
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: when I'm thinking about the church,
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: when I'm thinking about the ministry,
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm really wrestling with something,
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: and all of a sudden,
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: something just...
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh,
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: where did that come from?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's sort of God...
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking.
• 23:48
  Some people will go to sleep at night with a problem on their
• 23:50
  mind and they'll wake
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: up with a solution.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's God speaking.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: But God does speak to us through Scripture.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's what it's there for.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a great way for us to kind of pray.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: And some people like to actually just pray Psalms.
• 24:05
  Go to the book of Psalms and then just pick a Psalm and they'll
• 24:07
  read it and
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: personalize it a little bit.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of different ways scripture can help us hear God, right?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: Worship, so on and so forth.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And again, we'll be talking about all this stuff again and again.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: This is sort of intro to prayer.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: So Terry,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: let's read the passage and we're going to dive more deeply into it,
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: our next podcast,
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: but let's at least set the stage for what we're going to talk about.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And would you clarify for me how far you want me to go again?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Matthew 6, 5, through?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think through the end of the Lord's Prayer,
• 24:40
  which is something about forgiving our trespasses or something
• 24:43
  to that effect.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you when to stop.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: You'll tell me when to stop.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, right on.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: When you pray,
• 24:55
  don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on
• 24:59
  street corners and in the
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: synagogues where everyone can see them.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: When you pray.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Don't babble on and on as the Gentiles do.
• 25:28
  They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their
• 25:32
  words again and again.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be like that.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: For your father knows exactly what you need, even before you ask him.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Pray like this.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Our father in heaven, may your name be kept holy.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: May your kingdom come soon.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: May your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
• 26:00
  Give us today the food we need and forgive us our sins as we
• 26:07
  have forgiven those
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: who sin against us.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And don't let us yield to temptation, but rescue us from the evil one.
• 26:20
  If you forgive those who sin against you,
• 26:23
  your heavenly father will forgive you.
• 26:26
  But if you refuse to forgive others,
• 26:29
  your father will not forgive your sins.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Stop there or keep going?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's stop there.
• 26:35
  And that's going to be,
• 26:37
  that'll be a nice good one to end on in a few weeks.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: John's asked me about that one several times.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: So if we don't forgive people, does that mean we're not forgiven?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: But we're going to come back to that one.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you got to keep listening.
• 26:48
  Let me just go through a couple things here quickly as a way to
• 26:53
  summarize what
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: we're talking about so far.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about prayer as relationship.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: And what Jesus here is warning against is prayer as performance.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Difference between prayer as relationship and prayer as performance.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, whenever you pray, do not be like the hypocrites.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the word hypocrite, Terry, you'll appreciate that.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: It comes from the theater back in Jesus' day.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: The hypocrites were the people who wore masks to play other characters.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: So you're wearing a mask to play another character.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's a hypocrite.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're not being yourself.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Got it.
• 27:26
  So what you would have is these people performing prayers to
• 27:31
  show how religious
• 27:32
  they are by standing out on the street corners and just making
• 27:34
  sure everybody can
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: see how pious they are by their loud prayers.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: And Jesus said, you really don't need to do that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's not how prayer works.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about a performance.
• 27:49
  that now he's not saying we shouldn't have public prayer and
• 27:52
  worship services.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Some people will go that far.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: So,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: when I get up and I pray on behalf of the congregation,
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: people could use this verse and say,
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Tim's a hypocrite.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: He's just up there performing prayer.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what we're doing.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not performing to show how holy I am.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm leading a congregation in corporate prayer together.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's different.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why he encourages us here.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: He's talking about personal prayer, not so much corporate prayer.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Although you'll notice when he says,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: when we do,
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: when he teaches us to pray,
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: he says our father,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: not my father,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: but our father to remind us that we're part of community.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: But here he's really saying prayer is not performative.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's relational.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: So go somewhere quiet, get away from distractions.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't about you and everybody else watching you.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: This is about you and God just having some time together, hanging out.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so that you're,
• 28:51
  Your prayer doesn't devolve into that performance,
• 28:55
  but you keep the heart in prayer.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's what Jesus is talking about.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: And when he's talking about going on and on,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: John was a little concerned,
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: am I talking too much?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Jesus isn't talking about talking too much.
• 29:07
  He's talking about certain forms of prayers where they just
• 29:09
  keep saying the same
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: thing over and over and over again.
• 29:12
  And if you say it more and you say it louder,
• 29:13
  then maybe the gods will act.
• 29:17
  Not unlike some theologies that we still have in Christianity
• 29:21
  that if you do it
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: right and in the right words,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: then God will answer you.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: And if then, transaction, right?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: If I do it right, then God will respond.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not what Jesus is talking about here, right?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: This is God's invitation to us.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: We don't pray so that God will hear us.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: We pray because God invited us to enter into relationship with God.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Prayer is not if-then.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Prayer is not a transaction.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a performance.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's a relationship.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: And really, I hope that's freeing for people.
• 29:53
  Because basically what that says is however it is that prayer
• 29:57
  works for you,
• 29:58
  just go for it.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's good enough for God, right?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's just about staying connected.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: So when we move to the Lord's Prayer here,
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: these are some of the things that Jesus is setting up.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a performance.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about begging God for stuff.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about using certain magic words that will get the gods to move.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's just about being in that quiet spot and inviting Jesus in,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: saying,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: all right,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: this is who I am.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I'm going through today.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: I need encouragement or I'm doing well.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 30:33
  And then maybe read some scripture if you want to kind of
• 30:38
  enhance so you can hear God speak.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: however that happens for you, right?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good introduction, I think, to prayer.
• 30:50
  Anything that we maybe missed in this sort of introduction
• 30:53
  before next week we get
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: into the actual Lord's Prayer together,
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: where we start with the one to whom we pray,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: by the way,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: and our Father.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Who is this Father we pray to?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: So really the lens here, Tim, is...
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: not being so much overly concerned about,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: quantity and type of prayer so much as thinking what's,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: what,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: what would you do in a sort of an earthly relationship?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: What kind of conversation would happen?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: And,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: the fact that the conversation is happening more than the,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: exact language being used in the conversation.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: And if you missed a day of prayer, you're not going to hell.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're not going to hell anyway because we don't believe in hell.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Different podcast.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: God's not mad at you, right?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I will say this.
• 32:04
  though if we kind of get out of the habit of prayer we begin to
• 32:12
  feel the distance
• 32:13
  god doesn't move god doesn't move but we can start to feel
• 32:17
  distant just as in any
• 32:18
  relationship when you stop talking to each other you start to
• 32:22
  feel distant and that
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: other person may not have moved at all you've moved
• 32:29
  And then you start kind of depending on yourself more and why
• 32:33
  doesn't God do such and such?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when was the last time you really connected, right?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's just a way to keep that relationship healthy,
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: to keep us centered,
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: to know that God is God and we're not.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that why that's such a good thing.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: God is God and we're not.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: That is a good thing.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: one of the topics,
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: John,
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: remind us,
• 32:57
  we're going to talk about disappointment in prayer when we get
• 32:59
  done with all of
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: this.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a good one.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: OK,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: we're going to talk about the positives of prayer,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: what prayer is,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: but what happens when you pray and nothing seems to happen?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that'll be a good one coming up as well.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is why you always have, you never know.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: It could be next week that we talk about that.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying we don't know and we don't have it mapped out,
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: but as a listener,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: there's,
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: there's surprise.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: We are always on top of it.
• 33:30
  All right,
• 33:30
  Terry,
• 33:30
  anything else that you want to bring to the table before we
• 33:33
  head on out?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was good.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was really good.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, everybody.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is the Deep Grace Diving Podcast.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Tim Wright.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: Terry Summers.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: John Burgess.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: We are prayer champions.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we are, yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're prayer messes, and we will invite you into our mess next week.