Latest / High Five Hot Mess Podcast / Help! I Need an Adult: My Mom Has Dementia with Dr. Natali Edmonds (Dementia Careblazers)
Transcript
- Lisa Wilson: So when I was growing up, Alzheimer's was something that happened to somebody else's family. Until recently, over the last year, I can tell you that I have had one heartbreaking call after the other. My dad has Alzheimer's. My husband was just diagnosed with dementia. My mom just can't do this by herself anymore. I need to find help. And every question ends exactly the same. Okay, now what? Not what is the diagnosis, but who do I call? How am I supposed to pay for this? How can I work and do this at the same time? How do I suddenly become the person that this person needs me to be? Here's the truth. I I don't have a dementia caregiving story. What I have is fear. Fear that one day I will need to be that person for someone when they need me to be. And maybe this is the part I'm not supposed to say out loud. I'm scared I won't want to. Because nobody teaches you how to become the adult. Nobody teaches you or prepares you to take care of somebody full time. So, you guys, we found an adult and she's amazing. Dr. Natalie Edmonds is a psychologist that specializes in helping families navigate dementia. She's the founder of Care Blazers and the author of the Dementia Care Toolkit. How do you ask for help? When do you ask for help? And ultimately, how do Take care of the person you love without completely losing yourself in the process. Let's get into it. Natalie, welcome to High Five Hot Mess. We are so excited to have you here. one of the things that we, Lisa and I have been talking all about is your background is that just study dementia. You lived caregiving yourself before you started CareBlazers. Can you tell us a little bit about your own journey and how it led you to dedicate your life to caring for others? Natali Edmonds: Yes, and actually I started care blazers before anyone in my family was ever impacted by dementia. So I Lisa Smith: okay. Natali Edmonds: worked at a hospital, the VA hospital, and specifically in geriatrics. So solely focused on helping older Lisa Smith: Okay. Natali Edmonds: adults, some of them with just, you know, like mood disorders, depression, anxiety, end-of-life loss. Some of them had no dementia or cognitive impairment at all. But quite Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: a few of the people that I saw in the early years of my studies. Did have dementia and I saw just the ripple effect. It's it's not just your patient that's impacted by this, it's everybody who has a relationship Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: with that patient. And so I just found myself wanting to help this particular group of people as much as possible. And I started to see how our healthcare system really made it difficult to do that with short Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: appointments and who are we allowed to talk to versus not talk to. And so Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: I just started recording videos online of things that I thought would help my patients in between appointments and that's Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: how CareBlazers Lisa Smith: Mm, so smart. Natali Edmonds: was born. and then around 2020, My mom started really getting sick and also showing signs of cognitive decline. And that was my very first personal experience of Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: dementia and cognitive impairment hitting my life. So that was really powerful because it's one thing to be teaching that like it helped me, I feel like, become so much better at what I do. Because it's one thing to read the books and know the studies and, you know, be able to tell somebody what I think are great strategies, but when you live it. It's like Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: all of that kind of goes out the window and it's hard. Like even if you know all of the greatest strategies, you're still a human being with heartbreak and loss and grief and frustration and resentment and all of these things, especially caring for a parent. Like all of my stuff from you know being her daughter growing up started to come out and it's just it's given me so much more compassion for the very people I'm helping now. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: And Lisa and I both have experienced caregiving for parents during health issues where they become completely incapacitated, where again, we become the adult in the room. And we Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: and whatever your situation, I don't think you're ever really genuinely prepared for that until it happens. So that's what this Lisa Smith: No. Lisa Wilson: whole series on our podcast is about is giving people those tools, which That is exactly Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: what I think you're like, we're gonna talk about your book later. I've already pre-ordered it, but I'm I'm excited about that. But just for some basic 101 for anybody who's listening who might be hearing about this like on TV or they hear for in their friend chat, the difference between dementia and Alzheimer's, just 101. Natali Edmonds: Okay, think about the word dementia like you would think about the word cancer. When we hear somebody has cancer, we know that they're sick, but it doesn't tell you what specific type, like what's causing it. Is it lung cancer, leukemia, breast cancer, skin cancer? That is the same thing when it comes to dementia. When we hear the word dementia, that should cue us in that somebody's having problems with their thinking beyond what they should be for their age, but it doesn't Lisa Wilson: Okay. Natali Edmonds: tell you what's causing those problems. Is it Lewy body, frontal temporal? Alzheimer's vascular head trauma. Lisa Smith: Okay. Lisa Wilson: the light bulb just went off for me. Like that was very, very helpful. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: The next one is your husband has dementia. What's the very first thing your families should do? Natali Edmonds: Okay, the very first thing somebody should do when the spouse has dementia, I would say start thinking about your assets and finances and getting things in order. So this is not something that you do overnight or right away, however. We want to make sure, especially in spousal situations that I see, oftentimes maybe one spouse is the one like responsible for a lot of the finances and bill Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: pay and things like that. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: And if that happens to be the person with dementia, they are at some point no longer going to be safe to do so. And in Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: in many cases, it will become very risky and dangerous if they continue to keep that responsibility. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: In fact, I have one friend who her her and her mom didn't realize what Severe things really were until somebody came to their door and was like, Your home is in foreclosure, foreclosure. You haven't responded to anything. Like they literally lost their home, but they kept allowing, you know, her father, her mom's husband, to continue managing everything. So I think the first thing is just to start to realize: do I know the passwords? Am I on all the bank accounts? consult an elder law attorney. I cannot say this enough. An elder law attorney. Lisa Smith: Gosh, we've heard that this continues to come up. Natali Edmonds: somebody who's very trained in dementia care, right? Cause they Lisa Wilson: Okay. Natali Edmonds: can just take a look at your situation and say, like, let's get this paperwork in order, let's get this paperwork in order. Cause as dementia progresses, we don't exactly know where their mind is going to go, what they're going to believe, if they're going to continue to trust you. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: You know, and so we wanna make sure all those finances are safe. So long story short, consult an elder law attorney and make sure you kind of know where all the important passcodes and paperwork is. Lisa Wilson: Perfect. And then the other one one of my friends was like, I I feel like I keep making mistake after mistake and meaning about like who to reach out to and what to do. And when you don't Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: know who to go to, that's a challenge. So her question was what is the biggest mistake that families are making in the initial thirty to sixty days that she could have avoided? Natali Edmonds: Okay. I have answer for that, but I want to say if you are making mistakes, it's not mistakes, you're trying, you're showing up. Nobody has all the answers. What's right for one person isn't right for another. So if you have that feeling as much as possible, try to tweak in your head, like, hey, at least I'm doing this. This is so hard. At least I'm showing up, right? If you're not Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: making mistakes, you're not caregiving. That's first and foremost. I'd say in the beginning This is a hard shift. It would be don't get sucked into this f tunnel of focusing on a cure and instead be focusing on how am I going to be coping, living. Caring, like focusing on that because there is no cure. As fancy as these commercials are, and as much as all this thing sounds what there's once the person has the disease, there is no cure. So just make sure we're using that first 30, 60, 90 days, not wasting precious energy. You Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: know, absolutely get a second opinion if you want to, things like that. That's valid. But in terms of like supplements, all these things, I'd be very cautious about wasting Precious energy there and just think, okay, we're not in the cure mode anymore, we're in the coping mode. So, this is like really taking time to think about okay, there's going to be a person who's relying on you so heavily, and with time, they're going to Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: need you more and more and more. And guess what? With time, that means you're going to be more and more fatigued and tired and all of these Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: things. So it's like, Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: how am I going to protect myself? How am I going to make sure I'm caring for myself through all of this? Because I see so much is that the family jumps in caring, caring, caring, and they just neglect themselves or ignore themselves or think that their own health and well-being is not that big of an issue. And it's only when they've hit the wall, when they have totally burned out, that they're realizing I'm not going to be able to keep going like this. Like sometimes people think, I'll get help when I need it. And I'm like, Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: That's not the way we sh should do it. Get help now before you need it. Like build Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: your support system around you. and that just might look like talking to your girlfriends about what's going on if you feel comfortable with it and say, hey, I don't know what I don't know what this road has ahead of me, but I'm scared and I don't have all the answers. Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: And all I know is the best thing that helps me is for me to just be able to call and chat. Or what helps me is for me to call and we don't even talk about the dementia. Or, you know, like just Lisa Wilson: Right. Natali Edmonds: Being honest about w you know w what helps you during hard times. Sure, this is the first time you're dealing with dementia, but you know what kind of helps you through challenging, overwhelming moments in your life and like take some time to think about okay, how am I going to give myself those you know Give myself that care that you are about to Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: pour so much into your loved one with dementia. So focus on you, which is a big gripe I have in all of dementia caregiving is it's so little focused on the caregiver or what we do focus on is like a little thing. Here you like a brochure, a book, something like that, and then we let it drop. Lisa Wilson: Great. Natali Edmonds: and it's just unfathomable how much a family member is going to have to do. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: I know that timing of when memory loss, the like the level of memory loss could look different for everyone. Like timing of of when it slips away to a place where you can't reverse, right? So I know that that could look different, but on average, are you seeing, you know. Six months, a year, three years, Natali Edmonds: Okay. Lisa Smith: five years, like I think time, as you just said, is of the essence, those first 30, 60, 90 days to start to get some things in order. But what are you seeing in your practice that kind of gives you a like kind of a time frame? Natali Edmonds: Unfortunately, it's very individual. And it also depends Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: on the type of dementia. And in fact, you can have dementia without memory loss. Like that's something a lot of people don't realize. Memory loss is just Lisa Smith: Mm. Yeah, I didn't realise that. Natali Edmonds: one symptom of dementia. And it's the most common and first symptom often in Alzheimer's disease dementia. And that's the most common type of dementia. So that's why we always associate memory loss with dementia. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: even though Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: for many people like frontal temporal especially memory loss doesn't come until later. So Lisa Smith: Okay. Natali Edmonds: you're asking a question about maybe like decline, like how much time Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: do we have? They start to decline and it is so individual. And the reason that is, is because most people with dementia don't just have dementia, they also have other medical conditions, and Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: so all of those are factoring in the picture as well. I like to compare A lot of times when we're talking about dementia, people will ask very broad questions like, How do I get somebody with dementia to shower? Or how long does somebody with dementia live? And I like Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: to use the analogy, both of you lovely ladies, are wearing glasses. So Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: it's like saying everybody with low vision would get the same glasses prescription. That doesn't make sense. In fact, it would hurt some people's vision if we all, if we, you know, the the prescription that Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: works for you is literally going to make somebody else's. eyesight worse. And so Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: that's kind of how I think about dementia is instead of looking at dementia as everybody gets the same kind of track, you know, answers, it's really Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: like, no, it's like a, it's like vision loss. We're going to treat it for that specific person's vision loss. Some people progress very quickly. Some people live two decades with, you know, Alzheimer's Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: disease in particular, Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: which it tends to be slower moving versus maybe frontemporal, which tends to be a little quicker. so I know that's not a Lisa Wilson: Yeah, it makes me Natali Edmonds: great answer, but Lisa Smith: I hear a lot is, you know, we don't know how long how long we have, right? it's just it's heartbreaking. I have Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Smith: I have friends that are going through this now as well. And I mean, I was talking to Lisa a couple of weeks ago saying I couldn't believe how many people just recently have made comments about their parents. Going through this and like having to come up with making those really hard decisions on, you know, when is it time to move my parent into my home? When is it time to put them into a home, like a a memory care facility or something like that? And so it's just it's astonishing how much I'm hearing about it and people are just like, What do we do? Where where do we go? What's Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: Right. I have a friend that sent me a text message, Natalie, and I'm sure you get these all the time. friend whose dad has Alzheimer's. And it was quick. It's been moving quickly since he was diagnosed with it. And he's literally he will forget how to stand up. Or he will forget, you know, how to move his body. And so she called me in a a moment. She said, I have a pit in my stomach when I think about what's supposed to happen when my dad can't shower himself anymore. My mom is seven years younger, and I don't want them to lose their house just to get him the help he needs. I don't even know where to start. So for family sitting exactly where my friend is right now, is there a roadmap that you would point people to to say, Hey, this is where if you need resources, if you need these things, this is where you should go? Natali Edmonds: Yeah. So I for your friend in particular, an elder law attorney is going to be the very first stop, right? Because what I'm Lisa Wilson: Okay. Natali Edmonds: hearing, of course, there's that emotional pain, but what I'm also Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: hearing is this fear of what's going to happen to their home, what's going to happen to their assets. She knows her father's going to need care. How do we pay for that care? So that's really where the elder a lot of people think, well, I'm gonna have to sell my home, I'm gonna have to get rid of all my assets. If you have a very good elder law attorney, then there's some they're going to look At all the different options that are available that don't necessarily involve having to, you know, get rid of all the assets. So that's the the first thing. I think in terms of like a one-stop shop, like what's a one-stop shop for somebody whose loved one, somebody in their family has dementia, where do they go for everything? It's hard. I mean, I'd like to say, well, you could go to our YouTube channel. We have videos on all of these topics, right? For f absolutely free. We post a new one every single week. you could also go to the Alzheimer's Association. They have a 24-7 hotline that you could call and you can ask any question. And if your loved one doesn't necessarily have Alzheimer's d disease type dementia, but has another type of dementia, you can still use that number. It's not like they're not going to talk to you. So that would Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: be another resource I would recommend. And then, third, for people in the United States, I would open up Google and type in local area agency on aging and then it'll Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: give you a number for your county in particular and I would just call that number and explain your situation and ask what resources are in my area to help. So that can help Lisa Smith: That's a good point. Natali Edmonds: definitely with a lot of hands-on resources, probably bathing resources for your friend, but also other things that might just be helpful right now, even if they're not needed. I like to say we don't necessarily need like housekeeping, right? But we like Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: to have that sometimes to make our lives easier. This is how like the caregiver brain, I want them to start thinking. Like what's going to help take things off of me so that I can last this entire marathon, however long that's going to be. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: Yeah, like just an example, one of my friends found adult daycare we had a long talk about the fact that we neither one of us knew there was a state funded care for people with memory care issues or dementia. And you can go and either stay with them or you can leave. And it was like this person was like, I got my life back just because I needed an hour just alone. Natali Edmonds: Yes. the adult day healthcare, like that's where when you call the local area agency on aging, they'll be able to say like they'll come up with that, maybe respite opportunities, maybe meal delivery, all all kinds of things that are going on in your community. And you're right, absolutely, like that the fourth thing I would add to that list is social worker. And the doc Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: the primary care doctor might not volunteer it or might not even say Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: anything about it. So ask about it, is there a social worker in this clinic? Is there a social worker in this hospital? I have found when I was in clinical practice, they are the best source of information for Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: what's available in the area. Lisa Wilson: Awesome. Lisa Smith: been extremely, extremely helpful. And because I think a lot of people don't know like that next step is it do I qualify for home health? It does is this a a disease that will qualify if it's not physical yet, you know? Natali Edmonds: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so that's where it gets challenging and different programs might have different requirements. And you Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: know, the the area agency on aging can tell you like what might be available in your area, but this is also where it gets to be pretty financially hard. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: Because Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: you know, family members might find themselves paying just for somebody to come sit and keep their loved ones safe while they go Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: do something. But their loved one what's really challenging is dementia impacts the brain, like they're thinking, but also their functioning. But sometimes the brain, you know decline happens faster than their physical functioning. So now you have somebody who doesn't quite understand all the safety concerns, doesn't understand everything that you're trying to Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: help them with, but physically they're climbing ladders, they're, you know, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: trying to drive, and that gets to be very scary and hard for family members. so yeah, as much as you can lean on Lisa Smith: Mm mm. Natali Edmonds: you know, local area agency on aging and your social worker for what can help, but also don't discount maybe who you have in your network right now. So it can be like your neighbor, your friend, a church member. especially if it's not hands-on care like bathing or dressing or something like that, and you literally Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: just need somebody to come, you know, keep eyes on them so you can go do whatever you want to do. That can be wonderful as well. Children, grandchildren, like you know, adults obviously. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: all these people, it doesn't necessarily have to be like this person's dementia certified, because I don't know, you know, that doesn't hold Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: a lot of weight anyway for some cases. So just thinking about not being afraid to ask for help. The worst thing that can happen is they say no, which is exactly where you were to start with. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: And never let an opportunity Lisa Smith: That's true. Natali Edmonds: go by when somebody says, let me know if there's something I can do to help. Have a list in your mind of what would help. Like, my gosh, you make the best casserole. If you ever happen to make an extra casserole dish one day, I can drop it by anytime. Or, Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: you know, my it doesn't even have to be Lisa Smith: It is so true. It's Natali Edmonds: dementia related, right? It could be like, you know what? My if you happen to if you happen to know anybody who wants to mow grass, like my I'm having a hard time keeping up with my lawn. People really do want to help, but they don't know what would be helpful. And they're Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: very sometimes timid and scared to like jump into dementia care but just imagine Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: what it would do if all of these other things you're trying to take care of other people pitched in and helped and it might free up a little bit you know more for you in other ways Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: Yeah, because you've got to put your oxygen mask on first in order to be the best caretaker that you can be in the moment. And I think just learning from personal experience, I haven't always done that. You were just saying it, burnout, resentment, frustration, and all the Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Smith: things that you don't want, you don't want this experience to be like that. but when you're in it, if you're not taking care of yourself, I mean, it's a good thing to just start, like you said, just start those those behaviors in the beginning and knowing that you're eventually going to need that support. Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Think sometimes we think like maybe we'll get some special recognition if we do it all on our own, or somehow it means something bad about us if we're asking for help or needing help. Like we somehow Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: hold ourselves to these impossible standards. And I have found what often happens when we kind of get we're going to be uncomfortable either way in caregiving. No matter how you go through it, you are going to experience hardship and discomfort. So Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: like I encourage you to experience the discomfort of having People help asking for help making your community, and I have heard so many stories of people who have finally like. Let their you know, a neighbor that they had lived with. I'm thinking about one care blazer in particular, had lived in the same DC apartment for decades, never really talked to her neighbor. Her husband was declining, like towards the getting really far along in his disease process. She was changing his catheter, she was doing all of these things Lisa Smith: Mm. Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: and having a hard time. Finally, let her neighbor know one day, like what was going on. Her neighbor happened to be a nurse, came over, helped with catheter changes, dropped Lisa Smith: Wow. Natali Edmonds: off food. It and she said, like, I never realized. That I could experience like this pleasure in community building that I never had and I never Lisa Smith: Hm. Natali Edmonds: would have had if I didn't open my mouth and let them know what was going on. And so Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: there are some beauty, beautiful things that can happen. And so I just encourage people. you know, obviously be smart with who you're letting know, right? We don't want to Lisa Smith: Sure. Natali Edmonds: be victims to people who maybe have bad agendas, but for the most part, Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: your neighbors, people you're passing, people you're saying hi to, letting them know what's going on could unlock a another source of amazing support you could have never imagined. Lisa Smith: Yeah, just even those little things like to your point, like mowing the lawn, that might take somebody 30 minutes to an hour, but that 30 minutes to an hour could actually be used to help support your loved one or to do something else that you need to get done. Meals have been a big thing. that that's been a huge relief. So yeah, housekeeping, things like that. You just don't think all the things start to add up. Lisa Wilson: Lisa and I both have found ourselves kind of this this caregiver role that we talked about for an apparent. And neither one of us feel like we're particularly good at caregiving. You came out today with something that I just thought was so cool. And I was like, is she psychic? Because I'm having like this moment where you said, just a reminder, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: you can love someone deeply and still hate what caregiving is doing to your life. So nobody ever talks about like the loneliness and the guilt and the resentment of becoming Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: a full-time caregiver. what is your like golden rules of advice for your caregivers that when you Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: were talking to them? For people like us, like Lisa and I, who are just never meant to be caregivers. Natali Edmonds: Yeah, like honestly, we it's going to feel horrible. There are going to be moments that feel horrible and we're going to have not so pretty thoughts about caregiving. We're gonna have negative thoughts about our loved ones, we're gonna have negative thoughts about the whole situation, and it's all normal. Honestly, it is all so normal and it doesn't mean you're selfish or horrible or a bad caregiver. All of these thoughts, all of these feelings, all it means is that you're human and you're showing up and you're doing something very, very hard. When you stop to think about what caregiving asks of somebody, it's literally like, especially in dementia, we are often caring for somebody who one might not even understand they need that level of care. Two, they Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: might not understand everything you're doing to provide that care because a lot of it is behind the scenes, or we're not trying to highlight it because we don't want them to feel bad. it means we're sacrificing something about our life and our goals. We never nobody planned to be a dementia caregiver. So we're often putting our retirement goals on hold. Our careers maybe take a hit. We might not be able to pursue as pursue as quickly some of the goals that we had, friendships, dates. I mean, I remember like even just being able to keep a house clean. Like, you know, th our homes start turning into hospital rooms and it doesn't look good. Like just on and on and on. And I think the ri I think it's Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: It doesn't make sense to think that we should have lovely thoughts all the time when what we are experiencing is not lovely. We are experiencing something really Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: hard. So we're going to have hard thoughts. And don't make that mean anything negative about you. Just make that mean you're in a really hard season and you're doing something really hard. And if you did not have any of those negative thoughts, it would likely tell me that one, you're caring for the most amazing, sweet, peaceful, calm person in the whole world. So it's probably not that. But number two, it just tells me that you're Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa Smith: It's probably not that. Natali Edmonds: caring. It tells me that you're showing up. Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: so I think to expect that everything, I know we see it on TV and shows, it's lovely and it's wonderful, that still exists, but real life is both. Real life is rarely all horrible and all great. It's a mix Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: of it both. So And I think that if you were to tell like somebody who really cared about you how you were feeling, like, I am just really frustrated with my mom. You know, she says she doesn't need anything. I stopped by the house. I finally, you know, I do all the things. I get home and I'm finally settled into work. And then I get like the text or the phone call 20 minutes later that, you know, she needed something she forgot, right? And it's like, Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: like I think if you were telling these stories to somebody who really loved you and cared for you and understood, they would say, like, man, I guess. it like nobody's gonna say you're a horrible Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: person or horrible caregiver. So Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: unfortunately just let it be hard. The more you try to like think to yourself this is supposed to be easy, the harder it's going to feel. And like really, really learn to build the skill of being your own compassionate friend. We're really good at doing this Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: for other people. We're really good at doing Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: this for the friend on the other end of the line. But to ourselves, the way we talk to ourselves is horrible a lot of the times. And w if we had a friend that talked to us the way we talk to ourselves in our mind, we'd probably never talk to that friend again. So I would just Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: really like notice Lisa Smith: True. Natali Edmonds: the negative self-talk and say like, it's okay Natalie. Like it's okay. You're doing the best you can or hey you know what? We're all human. Like doesn't mean any like just literally that. Because going through caregiving while also telling yourself a bunch of lies that you're a horrible person for not liking every aspect of it, it doesn't make sense. Like, you know, we're Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: not gonna get it perfect, but Lisa Smith: I can use that perspective right now. So thank you, Natalie. especially when you're going through this with with you know your siblings as well, and everybody deals with it so differently. And some siblings will show up in different ways, it can look off balance, That can also be really rough for family dynamics. And so Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Smith: then there's that layer as well that can kind of Natali Edmonds: Thank you. Lisa Smith: come in. so what do you recommend for situations like that when you're when it's not just you as a sole caregiver, but you've got multiple and they're all contributing in their own way. But then there can Natali Edmonds: Yes. Yeah. Lisa Smith: also be that like struggle within. Natali Edmonds: Yes. So I cared for both my mom and my dad eventually after she passed away. And I have two siblings. they are both out of state though. I'm the only one in state. So Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: a couple of things here that I'm I think might apply for everybody. Like we all have our triggers. So like, you Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: know, my siblings out of state would call my dad and my dad would sound fine. And then I would get the text message or or phone call, Dad sounds so great, you know, dad and man, if I could just like scream I would scream Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: it's like you had five minutes on the phone with him you have not seen his apartment you're not wiping his Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: butt you're not buying Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: his groceries the house is filled with fruit flies because nothing is being thrown away like just I could but here's for me like this is This is a universal truth for all kinds of things, and then I'll tell you how it applies to dementia caregiving. Like your thoughts can are the key to everything. So I had the choice for thoughts of my siblings think I'm being dramatic, my siblings don't believe me, they don't do anything. I could have chosen those thoughts, and then that would have the ripple effect of me not having a very good relationship with my siblings right now. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: I chose thoughts of this is a very confusing disease, and I can understand how somebody who's not there all the time. kind of sees it differently. Like I get it, Lisa Smith: And yeah. Natali Edmonds: right? I really, I really do get it. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: And for me, I it was of utmost importance that I keep a good relationship with my siblings no matter what. So I just did my thought work and we can absolutely set boundaries. We can share how we're feeling. We can make requests like, hey, when you say these things, we can do all of that if we want. But for me, I just kept coming to like what do I have control of right now in this relationship? And I 100% have control about what I'm gonna think about my siblings through this. So that helped Lisa Smith: Fair. Natali Edmonds: prevent things from getting to maybe some not so good territory. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: but it did require a lot of work on my end. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: And so that's one situation. But then we also have situations where maybe everybody has different opinions. Again, Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: it comes down to whatever you are thinking about that situation is going to impact how you're going to show up. So if you're thinking they're a know it all, they're trying to take control, they don't know what's best for them, you're probably going to show up in a way that maybe adds tension versus. We all just love mom and dad and we're trying to Lisa Smith: Uh-huh. Natali Edmonds: do the best thing we can for them. And so then that Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: looks like, hey, I know this is really challenging and we're trying to do the best thing and we all have different ways of thinking about what the best thing is. Like w what's one step we can move in the right direction that we can all agree on? Like we just show up differently when we're managing our thoughts around all the other people. Lisa Wilson: I love it. I love that. Lisa Smith: It's a good point. Lisa Wilson: again another listener question, which like none of us are ever taught how do you take care of a family member with dementia or with Alzheimer's or any type of memory loss, like through through just something Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: other than the disease the disease. And the question that keeps coming up is how do you handle behavioral changes? Like when they think you're stealing from them, Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: or they think you're trying to see them naked? Or like I mean, how do you handle like the anger and the mistrust in like from like someone that, today they have no idea who you are? Like, how do you handle those behaviors? Like, cause I've Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: seen some of your Your tactics, like when they ask you the same question, they keep asking it over and over. You have a great tactics. So anybody that's watching or listening, please make sure you you follow Natalie on our YouTube channel. Natalie, what would you say are good behavioral patterns that you can do to manage Natali Edmonds: Okay, I personally believe there's always something we can do to help a situation when somebody with dementia has these dementia-related behaviors that are challenging and make no sense. So there's always something we can do. Sometimes Lisa Wilson: Okay. Natali Edmonds: it takes a little bit of time to figure it out, but there are some maybe kind of universal strategies that might be great. I'll try to stick to maybe some that might Lisa Wilson: Great. Natali Edmonds: apply to most. one Lisa Smith: Great. Natali Edmonds: of the things is Many people with dementia, they kind of l with behaviors, they're not really living in the reality we're living in, right? Like they they see things different, they're interpreting things differently, and us trying to bring them to our reality and using logic does not work, right? It might even make them more upset and push them away Lisa Smith: And you. Natali Edmonds: and maybe even make them suspicious and upset with you, which will make it harder for you to give them care in the future. What most people don't realize is sometimes when we're trying to push too hard and get them To come into our reality, you're hurting the relationship you have with them, which is going to make it harder for them to ever accept your help in the future. So there can be like Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: this unintended snowball effect we are doing when we don't realize like, whoa, okay, we're not going to bring them into our reality. Let's stop. So instead, one of my favorite strategies is instead of focusing on their understanding, focus on the ending that you want to happen. So for example, I won I had a care blazer I worked with and she's caring for her mom actually and they were running errands all day and everything was fine. they get pull up to the house after running all the errands and her daughter's like, Hey mom, we're home. And her mom is like, That's not my house. I'm not getting out, that's not my house, right? And so it's like, what do we do here? Unfortunately, it's like breaking the habit where you know we want to say, that is your house, Mom. You know, she's like showing pictures of the house, pulling out car registry, that's your house. Okay, but her mom doesn't believe it. So stop trying to get the person with dementia to understand what you understand and instead focus on the ending you want. The ending, she just needs her mom to get out of the car and go to the house. That's the ending. Once we realize that's what we're trying to accomplish, a thousand different ways have opened up for us to make that happen. I've got to run to the restroom, let's stop in here for a bathroom break. I'm thirsty, let's grab an ice tea. Her mom likes gardening. mom, I hear this place has a cool garden in the background. Let's go check it out. We don't you don't have To get the person with dementia to understand reality and what you understand to get them to move in the direction that you want. So that's kind of one thing to realize. And then I think another one that might help with a lot of the emotional pain too that caregivers experience is Realizing that your perspective and their perspective are two different things. So, like as another Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: story, I had another daughter caregiver for her mom. And her mom had the tradition every week, whatever day of the week it was, to go to her favorite restaurant for lunch. Her mom eventually got to the place where she ended up getting placed into a care facility. But the daughter, being the loving, amazing daughter she was, wanted to keep the tradition alive. Nothing wrong with that. Except that every time she was bringing her mom back to the care facility, Where are we going? What's going on? She just got really worked up and and didn't, you know, showing lots of signs of anxiety. So the daughter was holding on tightly to this tradition that her mom had always done. But at this Lisa Smith: Hm. Natali Edmonds: stage in her disease, her mom is communicating through her behaviors, this is actually more upsetting than pleasant. So just Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: realize, like from our perspective, we would think I'm a horrible daughter. I'm not keeping up with her tradition. I'm doing this to because she's always liked it. That's from our mind, not you know, being able to see the Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: whole picture the way we see it. From her mind, she's not seeing it that way anymore. She's seeing that as something's off, my routine's disrupted, I'm feeling very anxious. So, you know, after kind of pointing that out to her, the daughter just brings her lunch from her favorite restaurant once a week and they have it in the care facility and it's beautiful. So just realizing like their reality and our reality are often different and we are rarely, rarely going to have success trying to bring them into ours. So Lisa Smith: It makes sense because Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: I mean, honestly, it's gotta be so hard for you as the child going through this and not understanding that you've got to meet them where they're at and where they're at is constantly changing, right? The the goalpost is continuously changing. And Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Smith: so you're learning every day just like their new reality is changing, you're having to learn a whole new reality yourself. Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Smith: And there is this sense of just loss that I have heard from my friends that have been going through this same thing. And I had somebody the other day tell me her mom is in a facility. They had to put her mom in a facility after a few years of caretaking at home. And she just said, it is the longest goodbye because Natali Edmonds: Mm-hmm. Lisa Smith: I Used to talk to my mom every day, call her up and tell her all the things about my day, tell her all the all the people I met, you know, all the things I did. And the other day I really wanted to pick up the phone and call her, but knowing that I can't do that anymore, like it's to the point where I can't do that anymore, was so hard because I lost my mom years ago. Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Right. Lisa Smith: How do you help them through that just long period of loss? Because it's, Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Smith: yeah, the person that they knew isn't there anymore. Natali Edmonds: Exactly. You're right. It's a long goodbye. We call it ambiguous loss a lot. Like basically it's Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: just it's one loss after another after another. Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: And I I say like unfortunately this is going to hurt. Like the Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: the price of love is grief. And for dementia caregivers, that grief is just going to last for a very long time and happen before the hard part ha it happens before people not in dementia caregiving understand. So one of the hardest Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: parts is that you're you're experiencing the loss of them no longer being able to help you. Maybe you're experiencing the loss of them being able to go with you somewhere. Then you're experiencing the loss of being able to have a conversation with them. Then you're, Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: you know, just boom, boom, boom. And then As it continues to go, often for years, the people around you who would be technically offering you support, it almost starts to dwindle because, like, you've been at this for a long time. It's been going on for Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: a long time. And so then there's the loss of maybe like the friendships that you've had around. And it's also hard to keep up friendships because with time your loved one needs more and more. And so those friendships have maybe dwindled Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: with the years. So you know, grief support, we have a program and every Every single week we have mm five to six hours of live support. But one of the Lisa Smith: Well how Natali Edmonds: things that we do in there is we have it's basically like a grief group where we just talk about like all the things that you know, we've lost that we miss things that have changed, things that we wish weren't happening, and we just like kind of support each other through that. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of fixes here, right? It's it's Lisa Wilson: No. Natali Edmonds: instead of Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: fixing, we're feeling. And so some of the things I like to talk about is like how do we feel through hard emotions in a way that doesn't hurt us in the long run. So, you know, sometimes we feel these uncomfortable feelings come up and then we doom scroll and we go for the, you know, bottle of wine. Lisa Wilson: You know? Natali Edmonds: so there's nothing technically wrong with that. But in dementia caregiving, if we're going to be at this for years and years, that can really add up and have that negative effect on you. So Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: you know, I'm a big fan of like, well, let's talk about how that loss and feeling even feels. Like, do we even allow it to move through our bodies or are we stuffing it away right away? Are we distracting ourselves right, you know, right away? I like to say we are, you know, all of our life, even before dementia caregiving, we have experienced hardships. And even after caregiving is over, we are again going to still experience hardships. So Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: rather than trying to run away from them, push them down, distract ourselves from them, like let's build the muscle of feeling them. And get to know it. So then when it happens, we know, this is grief, or this is heartbreak, or this is the anxiety that you know, I'm going to breathe through this. And like most of the time when we do that, it can kind of you know give it 10, 15 minutes and we start to feel a little bit better and we can kind of move on, versus this Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: like ignoring stuffing down, and we start this ripple effect of all these things that have negative impact on us. So for me it's not being afraid of our feelings. feelings aren't meant to be fixed, they're meant to be felt, and a lot of times when Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: we allow ourselves to do that, we can actually process through them. So and for sure, you know, so I'm a big proponent, obviously I'm a psychologist at foundation. you know, therapy for people who really feel like there's not you don't have to need it. Again, another thing you don't need, but can be extremely beneficial to Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: kind of help talk through those difficult emotions because we're never Lisa Wilson: And I think Natali Edmonds: gonna get rid of them. Lisa Wilson: one of the challenges Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: is with all of this is that we've never experienced a lot of these feelings before. And it's it's new to us. So oftentimes, unless you're a very highly evolved person, I am not, anger comes right to comes right to the surface, you know, volatility comes right to the surface. Natalie, you you hit the nose on the head. Is that you you can get therapy fairly inexpensive. Just to have someone to talk to every week who does not have a dog in the fight. I Natali Edmonds: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: mean, it Lisa Smith: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: is, it would have taught me, hey, you're feeling this way, and that's why you're feeling this way. Let's talk through that. Like nobody was there for me because I didn't ask for that help, right? And I think it would have made me much better. more comfortable with what was happening because again it was all new new anger new feelings new fears no Lisa Smith: Mm. Lisa Wilson: big big things happening and I was on my own by design when I should have recognized I could get therapy for like $25 a week on an app just to have someone Lisa Smith: Ha ha ha. Lisa Wilson: to talk to, you know? so Natali Edmonds: Exactly. Lisa Wilson: I recommend that. So the next thing that I and you may not have background in this, the big issue we haven't talked about yet is memory care. Natali Edmonds: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: but specifically the how does palliative care and hospice work for, you know, somebody with dementia or Alzheimer's? How does that normally fit in? Natali Edmonds: Okay, so palliative palliative care anybody can have. You have to have like a serious medical condition and it's really focused on I mean, we can have it. If we had a serious medical condition, we could ask for palliative care. And their goal is really how to keep us comfortable, pain-free, figure out how to make sure our quality of life is as good as possible despite this serious medical condition. But it doesn't mean that we're going to die soon. It and we can still pursue treatments, we can still pursue things to help prolong our lives. It's just an it's like a a beautiful supporting service in addition to whatever medical care you're getting. and there's no time limit or anything like that. Lisa Wilson: Awesome. Natali Edmonds: Hospice. This is where a physician is estimating the person has six months or less left to live. Now they're not always great at predicting, but basically if the physician is like, I would not be surprised if this person was not here in about six six months from now, they could qualify Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: for hospice. And for that, it is like it's a terminal condition. Aggressive life-saving treatments would not be something that we would do here. They would take a look at what their medications are, what current treatments and therapies they're getting, and probably start to draw back on some. And we're focusing on comfort, quality of life, things like that. But the difference is six months less, six months or less left to live. Most people wait way too long to ask about hospice. A lot of providers are scared to bring up the word because they're afraid the family member might think, my god. God, my loved one's going to die. And the majority of people on hospice do die within a couple of weeks because we wait way too long to bring it up. But when you get Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: on hospice, you can get so many more support services, people coming into the home. I have worked with so many patients who got on hospice and eventually graduated because, like, you know, after it's they're re-evaluated every six months. Okay. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: That's so smart. Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Natalie, that's so smart. I know who asked this question and they are just beside themselves at this point. That's why I believe they're trying to figure out like what are my what are my options. So I'm gonna she's gonna listen to this and she's gonna talk to her doctor about palliative care and then talk to her doctor, her her person's doctor about hospice and find out what is available to them in home. or wherever she wants to do this, which leads to the next thing that I need to definitely make sure I talk about is memory care. So who makes the decision that it's time for someone to go into memory care, like full time? Okay. Natali Edmonds: So the family member, right? Now they're they're they might have really great treatment providers around them saying, Hey, I really think you should look into this. I think this is time. not everybody with dementia will go to memory care, but many people will. You can somebody with dementia can die at home, you know, and live out all their years with dementia at home. And you could also, you know, live out your final years in a care facility and pass away there. So there's no one right way that it has to be. But when it comes to like who should, I guess if we want use that word or like you know when to consider it the family member really needs to think about how are they doing how are they managing can they keep this up are they providing the level of care the person needs so a lot of times Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: carefully tense the conversation pops up when the person with dementia needs Ongoing supervision, basically 24 hours a day for their own safety. If they're not being watched, we are concerned about wandering. We are concerned about them doing something dangerous. We Lisa Smith: Calling. Natali Edmonds: are, you know, Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: ongoing falls, things like that. And that's just impossible for one person to do, even Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: if there's a handful of family members. So sometimes a care facility facility is great for that reason. Sometimes it's just the social aspect. Some people thrive in being in a a facility where there's recreation. Several hours a day, there's other people around. So sometimes families will talk to me about like there's nobody here for him to communicate with, like I'm still working virtually or I still have, you know, and so Lisa Wilson: Mm. Natali Edmonds: that's also a time that you can think about it. and then if you can't leave the person alone, right? If if you're concerned like they wouldn't know how to get help in an emergency. Like you can even ask Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: your loved one, hey, if there was an emergency, how would you get help? You'd be surprised they have no idea anymore about 911. They they don't know. Or what Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: is an emergency? They wouldn't even be able to answer. So, like, that's also a sign. Like, I've got to start thinking about, okay, let's bridge it. We can do security cameras, we can do check-ins, we can have people stop by. There's all these things in between home and memory care. Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: but whoever makes that final decision, of course, it's the family member saying it is. I want to pursue this, like this I think is in the best interest of myself and my loved one. And then Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: that specific care facility, they will have their requirements too. So they will Lisa Wilson: Okay. Natali Edmonds: they will do their own assessment. You know, what are their needs? What are they able to do? Are they able to, you know, what level are they at? And then they'll say whether or not that person is a good fit for the facility. maybe he's not memory care level right now, but I think assisted living would be good for him. We can look at that option. So where, you know, they have more freedom and they're able to do some things but that's still under some oversight. So there's all these different levels of care. but the very first thing is the family member just deciding like I this is just not something I can sustain for much longer. Lisa Wilson: It's bigger than me at this point. It's bigger Lisa Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Natali Edmonds: Yeah Lisa Wilson: than me, right? I want to make sure that I get everyone's questions answered, Lisa. So if I'm sorry if I'm taking the dominating the conversation. So I everyone was like, I make Lisa Smith: No, go ahead go ahead. Nope, you're good. Lisa Wilson: and I got messages like as little as like an hour ago. They're I'm getting them on my phone, I think, right now, but I'm like, too late, ladies. so one of the things that came up over and over and over is paying for care. And I think what I've heard so far today is really try to get an elder care attorney to help you figure out how to pay for these things and what what you what your options are. If you can't afford that, talk to your hospital social worker, try to get some time on their calendar, find out what resources are available to you. And then again, I'm always a big proponent of just walking down to Medicaid. And having a meeting with Medicaid about what you can or can't do. They have local offices everywhere. But besides that, is there any advice you would give to listeners on paying for full time care for themselves? Natali Edmonds: so there is a program now called the guide program. And people can type that in if you're in the United States and you're on a certain type of Medicare plan, you can now qualify for additional caregiving services through the guide program. So Lisa Smith: Wow. Natali Edmonds: just Google that and there'll be a number you can call and see if your loved one qualifies, and that could just be additional services that are no cost to you. If your loved one is a veteran, please, please, please, by all means call the VA as much of a half and red tape as it may be, they have the most amazing services and pay for so much. There's a program now called A comprehensive assistance program for family caregivers, something weird like that. But they literally Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Natali Edmonds: pay the family caregiver to be caring. So that you that's Lisa Smith: Mm. Natali Edmonds: just money that they give the family member. Plus, they often pay for respite, home health care aids. If you need depends, supplies, they really Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: step in when the veteran is an older adult and needs help. So please, if your loved one has served in the military, call the VA, get them enrolled, and for sure that's a social worker. Ask to talk to a social worker and say what are the services. tell them your situation what are the services that would help because there's a bunch of them there you can call that 800 number from the Alzheimer's association if you go to allz.org alz.org call them and say do you know of any services that can help me pay for what i'm going through i've definitely worked with caregivers who were just given a grant not the biggest money you know but like 500 Lisa Smith: Anything helps. Natali Edmonds: things like that can help. And there's the Louis Body Association, the Association for Frontal Temporal D Lobar Degeneration. So these different associations you can just call and say, do you know of anything that can help? but elder law attorney is going to be the first bet and many of them will offer a just free consultation to get a feel of like what might be helpful and if they can't be helpful maybe point you in a better direction. And it is state specific for elder law, so you do need somebody in your state. Lisa Wilson: So we have every single week, Natalie, we do our high five hunt. So no matter what's going on in the world, no matter what is happening, we try to focus on the positive, high five hot mess, And I want to let you everybody know that you have poured your heart into a book called the Dementia Care Toolkit. I have it on pre-order. Natali Edmonds: Thank you. Lisa Wilson: So talk to us about your book and why you think it will help people. Natali Edmonds: So basically the book is I tried to imagine, you know, it's 2 a.m. in the morning, you don't know what to do, or you know, your loved one's doing something strange and weird and you just nothing is working. so it's it's separated into three sections. The first section is really brief and it's just an overview on like why behaviors happen in dementia and kind of explaining a little bit like I did in the beginning the difference, you know, why we're so confused about dementia, Alzheimer's, that kind of thing. The second section Lisa Smith: Yeah. Natali Edmonds: is really just behavioral strategy. Like and it's filled with real life stories. So every strategy in there comes with a real life story of a care blazer who implemented it. And then it helps them, you know, here's how you can use it in your life. Lisa Wilson: Yeah, see. Natali Edmonds: And then the final section is really all about the difficult emotions, the grief, the loss, the resentment, the sadness, and how do you work through all of those feelings? So it's really just meant to be like. you're struggling, whether it's behaviors, hard emotions, confusion about what's going on, just pick it up and turn a page. You don't have to read it all in order, although I encourage maybe the first time you give it a try in order, but then it'll just be like a go-to resource back and forth about like, okay, what might be an Lisa Smith: That's amazing. Natali Edmonds: idea here? I just really hope it it helps, you know, and we're putting together, just so you know, we're putting together a bunch of free resources for everybody who has pre-ordered. Lisa Wilson: I love that. Lisa Smith: Natalie, this has been so informative, not only for Lisa and I, but I know for our listeners and our friends that continue to kind of be faced with this really hard change in their life. So I want to say thank you for taking the time out today to talk to us and really address our listeners with some really great tips. I think that's what what you've taught us today that you're not alone. and you've gotta be able to take care of yourself in order to take care of your loved ones. So Natali Edmonds: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: That's right. So you guys just remember it's you can't pour from an empty cup, right? So we Lisa Smith: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: want to make sure that we hydrate, we roll our shoulders back, unclench that jaw, and go high-five somebody. Thank you so much. All Lisa Smith: Yes, thank you. Lisa Wilson: right, bye, everybody. Have a great week. Natali Edmonds: Thank you for having me. Lisa Smith: Bye.