Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #223: Joe Lee-Bullis (MD) School

Transcript

#223: Joe Lee-Bullis (MD) School · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:10
  Track and field world. You were now tuned in to a home
• 0:13
  servant, Mike Cunningham, for another extraordinary message
• 0:17
  for Gill. Athletics connections.
• 0:20
  We welcome to the show with the go to appreciate the coach, the
• 0:23
  ones you point people most every season leads.
• 0:26
  A voice of reason. Speak in the growth.
• 0:27
  You got to prep before you carry the load.
• 0:30
  It's coffee to the soul for those of us to stay on the go.
• 0:32
  Proper handoff. To stay in the zone which you're
• 0:35
  packing for the road. There's more than one way to the
• 0:37
  go. Take notes.
• 0:38
  That's paying. You're told.
• 0:39
  It ain't practice. If your purpose ain't clear, it
• 0:41
  can't happen to you. Listen, both is You can't mentor
• 0:45
  without a mentor of years of experience.
• 0:47
  You can reinvent those years. Every plan's got to stand to
• 0:50
  deliver up to and the price sacrifice can you give up you.
• 0:53
  It's a choice and to fight, not a win or lose.
• 0:56
  It's not a ploy, but a device that y'all can make more moves.
• 0:58
  It's not about how to. It's all about why you don't
• 1:01
  know till you know who you are inside. 6,000,000 waist to tie
• 1:05
  choose none. So be all for us finish line.
• 1:07
  The work ain't done so we learn from the experts.
• 1:09
  But y'all got to put in the legwork guilt.
• 1:12
  Athletics is the network. It's all about connection put
• 1:15
  together for the profession. To every track coach could be
• 1:17
  blessed. All right, here we go.
• 1:33
  Back on the Gill Athletics Connections Track and Field
• 1:35
  podcast. I'm going to do a very short
• 1:37
  intro because I want to hop into.
• 1:39
  In fact, let's let's get rolling, man.
• 1:41
  I feel like this coach is the kind of guy that just gets it
• 1:43
  going anyway, So we're going to follow that theme.
• 1:45
  Help me welcome from Maryland from Bullis School.
• 1:48
  The head boys and girls coach there.
• 1:50
  The Wise, the wonderful Mr. Jolie Joe.
• 1:52
  How are you Sir? I'm good, Mike.
• 1:54
  How you doing man? Dude, you know I like cool
• 1:57
  names. I said this before hit record,
• 1:59
  but I had to just point this out.
• 2:00
  This is my man's name. Joe Lee.
• 2:02
  The man with two first names. That is a pretty cool name, my
• 2:06
  friend. I love it.
• 2:07
  I love it. So as a guy in college, you he
• 2:10
  nicknamed me six. I was like 6.
• 2:11
  What are you talking about? Like, why would you?
• 2:13
  What does that mean? That's I'm 6 feet tall is like
• 2:15
  no man 6 letters in your whole necks.
• 2:16
  I was like. I love it.
• 2:19
  That's the kind of creativeness I like.
• 2:20
  I'll be like, what's 6? What's that?
• 2:22
  Yeah, exactly. Perfect.
• 2:23
  Perfect. Before we get started here, hey
• 2:25
  Coach Q, my man the Birder out in Colorado.
• 2:27
  He actually nominated you for the podcast.
• 2:30
  He is a former podcast guest himself.
• 2:33
  Love him to death. He does an amazing job out there
• 2:35
  in Colorado. He runs every year in the
• 2:38
  Masters 4x4 at Penn Relays. So, Oh yeah, OK, now I got you.
• 2:43
  I ran into him. He was like, hey man, do you
• 2:45
  know the guy at Bullis? And I was like, no, but I've
• 2:47
  heard of the school, but I don't know the coach, unfortunately.
• 2:50
  He goes, man, Jolie, he's a cool dude.
• 2:52
  You got to have him on the podcast.
• 2:54
  And so that's how we kind of connected.
• 2:56
  And luckily we magically ran into each other at Penn, which I
• 2:59
  think that to me tells me fate cuz.
• 3:01
  There's. Thousands and thousands of
• 3:02
  people there, so I'm so glad we were able to get connected and
• 3:06
  get you here on the podcast, man.
• 3:08
  Yeah man. Well, I'm glad to be here.
• 3:09
  And Cue's way more cooler than I am, cuz he's still running.
• 3:12
  I'm not running nothing but my mouth.
• 3:14
  Dude, I don't know how he does it.
• 3:15
  God bless him. I'm like, that's good for you,
• 3:17
  not for me. Well, Joe here on the podcast,
• 3:21
  we, you know, we started this to uplift and honor coaches around
• 3:24
  the country and their journey and every journey is unique.
• 3:28
  We've had coaches who took. I don't even know if there is a
• 3:32
  stereotypical way, but maybe the way we think of it like you know
• 3:35
  kid runs in in college and then they go become a GA and maybe
• 3:39
  they're a education major so they become a high school
• 3:41
  teacher and coach or maybe they GA to program then they become a
• 3:44
  college coach. But as we're learning after 200
• 3:48
  and plus interviews, here is. There is no one way.
• 3:51
  Everybody has a really unique path to where they are today and
• 3:55
  that's what we're going to explore with with you and your
• 3:58
  amazing story here. So Joe, as we hop back into our
• 4:02
  way Back machine here, where does coaching, where does track
• 4:06
  start for you? You're not actually track, I
• 4:10
  think starts with my mother who. Passed away about six years ago.
• 4:16
  She she would take me to the the track of the field back when I
• 4:21
  was five or six years old. And I always would wanted to.
• 4:23
  I always wanted to race her because I know I was fast.
• 4:25
  I could beat the people in my class.
• 4:26
  I was like, I want to step up, you know, and she would wear me
• 4:30
  out. My mother was talented.
• 4:33
  She was fast. She was athletic.
• 4:35
  She played. She's point guard on a
• 4:36
  basketball team and. You know, she ran track as well.
• 4:40
  And you know, this is back, you know, in the day where women's
• 4:43
  athletics were not as celebrated, right?
• 4:46
  So. But my mom was a trendsetter and
• 4:48
  and she made no apologies for it.
• 4:50
  So. So one of the best things she
• 4:53
  did is she didn't let me win. Nice.
• 4:56
  So, but, you know, she would always be encouraging.
• 4:58
  Afterwards. She'd hugged me.
• 4:59
  So it's okay. You know, you're going to get
• 5:00
  faster. You're going to get better.
• 5:01
  It wasn't, you know, anything but love on both sides.
• 5:04
  So I guess I've never thought about that before, believe it or
• 5:06
  not. So I guess that's kind of how I
• 5:07
  I coach now. It's kind of how my part of you
• 5:10
  know, my philosophy is that you know, you know, give your best,
• 5:14
  you know, but it's. At the same time and tell the
• 5:16
  truth, be honest in your effort, I'll say, but then you know, be
• 5:19
  caring in in in the approach afterwards, so.
• 5:23
  I'm curious. You know as a as a dad myself, I
• 5:25
  I I subscribe to your mom's theory of like I'm going to get
• 5:29
  whatever we playing Uno racing basketball.
• 5:32
  I'm going to give if you beat me, great.
• 5:34
  Good job, cuz that means you beat me at my like I'm trying,
• 5:37
  yes. You know, mom sounds like a like
• 5:41
  a firecracker here. You know, playing college sport
• 5:43
  or playing sports when women weren't encouraged at all to
• 5:47
  play women's sports And to also, you know, take it to you and
• 5:51
  say, hey, if you're ever going to beat me, it's going to be
• 5:53
  because I gave my best. Did you, if you can remember
• 5:56
  back in those times, five, 6-7 years old and she's, she's
• 6:00
  whooping you, she's beating you. I love the I have that that
• 6:02
  vision of her putting that arm around you like it's okay, son.
• 6:04
  Like you just you just got beat by a better person.
• 6:06
  I just love that. Do you remember how you felt
• 6:09
  about that, though? Because you know, it's your mom.
• 6:12
  You're you're a little boy trying to become a big boy.
• 6:15
  You're supposed to quote, UN quote, beat your mom, but she's
• 6:17
  whooping you. Did it embolden you of like,
• 6:20
  well, I better try harder? Or did it like discourage you
• 6:23
  and like well, maybe I need to go play Connect 4?
• 6:27
  No, it it it motivated me. It it, it, it let me know that
• 6:33
  number one, that there was always something or someone out
• 6:36
  there. Who is better than you?
• 6:39
  And it motivated me to get better myself.
• 6:43
  But the motivation happened after the fact.
• 6:45
  See if she would have, like said, you know, discouraging
• 6:48
  words. Oh yeah, you and just been, you
• 6:50
  know, like teasing me. I know I probably would have
• 6:55
  went the other way, right. I probably would have just, you
• 6:58
  know. Inwardly just quit and and and
• 7:02
  been demoralized. But she was such an
• 7:04
  encouragement and my mom was the type of person like you can do
• 7:07
  anything you believe. You set your mind.
• 7:09
  If there's nothing you can't do, like don't ever let anybody tell
• 7:13
  you what's not possible you can do it.
• 7:15
  And and we were at that time, we were living down in North
• 7:18
  Carolina at the time. I was I'm from New Jersey and
• 7:22
  you know my my father and actually her father as well.
• 7:26
  So a lot of my. My parents my, my father and my
• 7:29
  grandparents are from New York but we moved to North Carolina
• 7:32
  where her mother was from for a couple of years and we were
• 7:37
  really living very modest means. I mean we, I mean, I'm trying
• 7:43
  not to use the word poor. That's a mindset.
• 7:46
  But we were we we didn't have a lot of money.
• 7:48
  I put it that way. So.
• 7:49
  But she didn't let that stop us so that your your your
• 7:51
  surroundings do not impact your outcome.
• 7:55
  And so I tell the kids even now, so you know don't let the
• 7:57
  outside impact, don't let the outside impact the inside.
• 8:01
  So whatever the external circumstances, it it, it cannot
• 8:04
  take over the internal. So so yeah, she she she did that
• 8:08
  Mike. And it was it's so fun.
• 8:10
  I'm so glad we're even having a conversation because I think
• 8:12
  about my mom often but not necessarily connected to my
• 8:15
  athletic, you know, years. But she was also the one who's
• 8:19
  always at every game, every track meet.
• 8:22
  Like everyone, and this is, you know, before you know, you know
• 8:26
  you had things like social media to check on times and then she
• 8:29
  just was there every practice. So she was always an encourager
• 8:34
  and motivator. But make no bones about it like.
• 8:38
  She was tough and she was going to make sure you earned
• 8:40
  everything you got. That's right.
• 8:42
  I love it. We need more parents like that,
• 8:43
  please. So you mentioned mom went to all
• 8:47
  the games and track meet. So in high school, did you play
• 8:50
  other sports besides track? Yeah, so I actually started out
• 8:54
  my my journey, athletic journey. I mean I was, you know, track
• 8:57
  was actually the first event that actually participated in.
• 9:01
  Thinking back now, it's like, you know the field day and you
• 9:04
  know all that. But then my first sport, my
• 9:07
  first organized sport was baseball.
• 9:11
  And I knew I had a gift in speed.
• 9:15
  Or you know, I know it's fast because I was never thrown out
• 9:19
  still on a base, right? So.
• 9:21
  And I was never taught how big. I just picked it up in the
• 9:23
  neighborhood, you know, and I went into a place where.
• 9:27
  They were predominantly playing all their lives.
• 9:29
  I was like okay, I'm a good athlete.
• 9:30
  How do I figure this out? You know, I didn't have coaching
• 9:33
  to prepare me. I went in as a 13 year old,
• 9:36
  playing the playing Junior League, Junior League, which is
• 9:40
  the level up of Little League. And I played in a I was.
• 9:45
  I went to school at the time in a predominantly Hispanic
• 9:48
  neighborhood in Newark, NJ. It's called North North.
• 9:51
  So it's a lot of, you know, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Hispanic
• 9:55
  descent. So and they can play some ball.
• 9:57
  Let me tell you, they can play some baseball.
• 9:59
  So I was added deficit because I was used to being the best
• 10:02
  athlete and went into being like trying to make the team.
• 10:05
  So when I made the team, they put me in center field so I can
• 10:09
  track down a ball. Because I was faster than
• 10:12
  everyone. But I didn't have the skill sets
• 10:13
  per se. And and then by that the end of
• 10:15
  that season, I wound up when we won our first playoff game and
• 10:21
  we won by three runs and I think I helped score 4.
• 10:23
  So I was like, all right, cool. I felt like I finally figured it
• 10:26
  out. So but you know the next year
• 10:30
  was the next level and you know I got cut.
• 10:32
  So I was like, oh man, what am I going to do?
• 10:34
  My brother, my older brother, he's 18 months older than me.
• 10:39
  He was on the. Track team at our high school.
• 10:43
  So he was a sophomore and I was a freshman.
• 10:45
  So when I had cuffing the JV baseball team, I said hey, you
• 10:50
  think about track? And he asked his coach and the
• 10:53
  coach was like, no, we're pretty much done.
• 10:55
  And now, mind you, that previous year my mom signed me up again,
• 11:00
  back to mom again. She signs me up for the United
• 11:04
  States Youth Games. And I've never I never ran track
• 11:07
  before. This is way back in the day.
• 11:08
  It was just they people coming from all over the country and
• 11:11
  just like having like these select teams and and I wound up
• 11:15
  meddling in the Hunter. So yeah, right.
• 11:18
  With no track experience or training or whatever and and so
• 11:22
  I I was hoping that that would get me some St. cred with my
• 11:25
  brother's coach but he didn't do nothing which I appreciate
• 11:28
  because again I was late. I I was coming to track because
• 11:31
  I got cut from baseball. Right.
• 11:33
  So I was like, what does he know?
• 11:35
  I'm kind of fast. He was like.
• 11:37
  Did he? Did he check my Twitter page?
• 11:39
  Yeah, right. Yeah.
• 11:41
  There was no Twitter, right? There was, there was, there was
• 11:42
  no YouTube to look at. You know, come on.
• 11:45
  So anyway, the very next year he did let me on the team when I
• 11:50
  was state champ, and I think I broke like 3 school records or
• 11:53
  something like that and the rest of his history.
• 11:56
  But that's where my love of track started.
• 11:59
  And when I dive into something, I dive all the way in.
• 12:02
  Right, like I dive all the way. You know what I find interesting
• 12:05
  there, You know, it's it's, you know, now that we're at the age
• 12:08
  and stage that we are, you know, we have perspective, right?
• 12:11
  We can look back and look at all these different decisions we
• 12:13
  made. It's hard for us in the moment
• 12:15
  to see these decisions. As even important decision.
• 12:18
  So freshman year you get cut from the baseball team.
• 12:22
  That's devastating enough for a kid right there alone, right?
• 12:26
  Especially for a sport that you love.
• 12:28
  And then you're like, okay, well, I'm pretty fast, I won
• 12:31
  last year, blah blah blah. I'll go to the track team and
• 12:34
  the track coach says no. Now, right there is is the fork
• 12:37
  in the road. You could have been like, well,
• 12:38
  you know what? We'll screw track, screw
• 12:40
  baseball. I'll just do football.
• 12:42
  Or God God forbid, other bad things, right?
• 12:45
  You made it the decision of like OK.
• 12:47
  Oh, crap. Well, then I'll see you next
• 12:49
  year like that. That's me.
• 12:50
  It's that. That's me.
• 12:51
  Feels like that decision of your mom beating you.
• 12:53
  It's like, oh crap, I'm not fast.
• 12:54
  I guess I'm not very fast. So I either better go do
• 12:56
  something else or, well, I better try again.
• 12:59
  And that feels like the sophomore year, like, well, I
• 13:01
  better try again. And you won the state that you
• 13:04
  want a state title in. Jersey, by the way.
• 13:05
  One of my favorite high school track states in the whole
• 13:08
  stinking country. Jerseys.
• 13:10
  Jerseys. Tough.
• 13:11
  Everything is. It is and.
• 13:14
  Yeah. So that I mean that's kind of my
• 13:15
  story resilient to get started with my mom and you know we we
• 13:20
  don't there's no quitting to Lee house and you know my dad so but
• 13:25
  I'm saying this there there was no chance of me getting into
• 13:27
  trouble because mom was who she was and my dad's he was law
• 13:31
  enforcement officer. So yeah good luck getting locked
• 13:34
  up and he actually worked in in in one of the prisons in Jersey
• 13:38
  too. So he was a captain.
• 13:39
  He was captain of of one of the largest prisons in Jersey.
• 13:42
  So, like, what would I that would have been worth?
• 13:45
  Way worse for me. Like I got to deal with that and
• 13:47
  all this. So no, I wouldn't get in trouble
• 13:49
  like that. But yeah, just resilience, Mike.
• 13:52
  Like man, I'm like I'm not going to quit.
• 13:56
  I'm not going to take no for an answer like we're going to
• 13:59
  figure it out. And and they instilled that in
• 14:02
  me and and and also my brother. My brother's really, he's he's a
• 14:05
  tough guy too and in a good way. And one of my favorite memories
• 14:09
  is. Us being on the track team
• 14:12
  because so check this out. So I get on the track team
• 14:15
  sophomore year and need as high as a quit.
• 14:17
  I'm not doing it. Your brother.
• 14:19
  Yeah. Big one not quit.
• 14:20
  But he wrestling was his sport, right?
• 14:22
  So. And he was very good at that.
• 14:24
  He was, you know, state champ as well and went on to nationals,
• 14:28
  place fifth in the nation national prep tournament.
• 14:31
  And I actually wrestled as well. I wanted to be like my older
• 14:33
  brother. So I started wrestling in the
• 14:35
  7th grade and I did everything. Wrestling, football, Football
• 14:38
  was really my first love problem is that St.
• 14:41
  Benedict's? That's where I went to school.
• 14:42
  Shout out St. Benedict's Prep in North New
• 14:44
  Jersey. That's going the world and.
• 14:48
  The the the unfortunate part was we didn't have football.
• 14:52
  So I had to figure out what else I was going to do.
• 14:54
  Yeah, yeah. So we have a football team, how
• 14:56
  about that? As as many great athletes have
• 14:58
  been at at our school, we're at predominantly soccer school.
• 15:02
  So I went up again doing that whole, all right.
• 15:05
  I'm an athlete. I can figure it out.
• 15:07
  I wanted. I wanted to do something in the
• 15:09
  fall, so there's no football. So I wound up playing soccer.
• 15:13
  I was a goalkeeper because I needed a goalkeeper on our
• 15:14
  freshman team and. That moved into, you know, doing
• 15:18
  JV and then by the time the track really started to take
• 15:21
  place, I gave that my total focus.
• 15:23
  But but yeah, that I mean just those crazy little change like
• 15:26
  if I'd have made the baseball team.
• 15:28
  We're not having this conversation.
• 15:29
  Nope, that's right. So glad.
• 15:32
  I glad I. You'd be on the The Baseball
• 15:35
  Connections podcast exactly right before we move on and kind
• 15:40
  of because I want to speed up, because I want to make sure we
• 15:41
  talk a little bit more about what you're doing today.
• 15:44
  But I am curious, was it the same track coach sophomore year
• 15:48
  as freshman? The one that said no?
• 15:50
  Yes, he was. You show up sophomore year.
• 15:53
  I have to assume you showed up fairly fast right off the bat
• 15:56
  and then obviously you end that year as a state champ.
• 15:59
  I mean, did the and if you remember Coach's name, we almost
• 16:02
  called this the Gil Shout Out Track and Field podcast, but
• 16:05
  obviously he or she did something really well.
• 16:07
  We did, but were they kind of like, oh crap, maybe I should
• 16:09
  have said yes to this kid last year.
• 16:11
  No. So his name is Keith Corpus.
• 16:15
  So shout out, Coach. Corpus Coach Corp is what we
• 16:17
  called him and he didn't. He never said that, but he was a
• 16:21
  really, he was really a man of principle, right.
• 16:24
  So if the rule is, you have to sign up by the state that is the
• 16:28
  rule. Now I'm like, what?
• 16:30
  Can't you bend the rule a little bit?
• 16:31
  Can we, you know, can we have some leniency?
• 16:35
  But I appreciated that because he made me earn it the way that
• 16:38
  everybody else had to. And he became one of the most
• 16:40
  influential coaching slash mentors of my high school
• 16:45
  experience. I mean, I I can remember days
• 16:48
  where we were laughing and like at nationals, I was the only one
• 16:51
  to qualify for nationals. So we went and this is back when
• 16:54
  I was in Syracuse. This is how you know, back in
• 16:56
  the day. So, yeah, so.
• 16:59
  At the Carrier Dome at the you know they have they're they're
• 17:02
  they're trying to remember the name of it but and it's me and
• 17:08
  him and and I mean he was he was an English teacher you know big
• 17:11
  glasses young guy he still ran but you know not your
• 17:15
  stereotypical or prototype coach and you know he's he's very you
• 17:20
  know methodical this that and the other and we're in Syracuse
• 17:23
  NY and and he. Right in the hotel room he saw
• 17:27
  snowball fight. I'm like whoa, like first of all
• 17:29
  where did you get snowballs from at Syracuse?
• 17:30
  I'm like I didn't expect that from him.
• 17:32
  I'm like they're like you're supposed to be the straight
• 17:34
  laced guy you sent me with a snowball.
• 17:36
  It was the best thing ever. We just bonded and and and and I
• 17:40
  had the best relationship with him through high school.
• 17:43
  So I'm glad he did it that way because it made me me respect
• 17:46
  the fact that no, you you're not just going to come in here
• 17:48
  without earning it. I'm so now.
• 17:50
  I guess that's the mentality. That I take into coaching like
• 17:54
  we're going to earn everything we got and and but when we do
• 17:57
  earn it we deserve it. Like, you know, I don't make any
• 17:59
  apologies for that because when our kids do what they have set
• 18:03
  out to do, you know, celebrate them and give them their just
• 18:07
  just do if that makes sense. You mentioned that he is one of
• 18:10
  the biggest influences over you as a coach.
• 18:14
  What? What?
• 18:16
  Where does that come from? What?
• 18:17
  What kind of things? I mean, obviously, you know, it
• 18:19
  sounds like he was a real guy, but I also understood that there
• 18:21
  need to be some levity to life, right?
• 18:23
  The snowball fight. What?
• 18:24
  What were some of the actions? If you think back now, over the
• 18:27
  three years that you had with them, what were some of the
• 18:29
  things that you're like, oh, man.
• 18:30
  You know, if he didn't do this, I wouldn't be here today.
• 18:33
  If the way he talked to me, the way he focused on relays, what
• 18:39
  was it about him that, I mean, it's a heady statement to say
• 18:41
  one of the largest influences over you.
• 18:44
  Where? Where does that come from?
• 18:46
  Yeah, he was at that time and there are many others as well.
• 18:50
  But I think I just think back on on some of the things that that
• 18:53
  we did and he helped me. He helped keep me balanced
• 18:58
  because you know my talent in high school I started to shoot
• 19:02
  up and at a very quick trajectory because I didn't run
• 19:05
  summer track, a trip track and that kind of stuff started my
• 19:08
  sophomore year besides that one meet I told you about and then
• 19:12
  you know I'm state champ and. I'm going to the meet the
• 19:14
  Champions, which is you know they saw that in Jersey.
• 19:17
  I didn't win it obviously, but I I was in the I was in the
• 19:20
  conversation, right. I'm very next year, which is my
• 19:24
  junior year, you know I'm, I think I'm US #8 or something
• 19:29
  like that and and that was my first year running indoor
• 19:32
  because I didn't know what the indoor track was.
• 19:34
  So I went from running my first year outdoor to boom next year
• 19:36
  indoor and now I'm top eight in the country.
• 19:39
  Actually, I was 9th. I just missed the finals at
• 19:42
  Nationals by one spot. And he just kept me balanced.
• 19:45
  Like he never let me let let my head get too big.
• 19:47
  But he also never let me get too low because I'm very hard on
• 19:50
  myself, even to this day when we don't succeed.
• 19:56
  Yeah, I'm harder on me. I like, I'm not hard on my
• 19:58
  athletes. And they may say different.
• 19:59
  Actually, they wouldn't say different after a race.
• 20:01
  I'm never like, you know, you should have done this more.
• 20:03
  You should have done that more. I'm just like, how did I screw
• 20:05
  that up? When we almost won pen relays
• 20:09
  and we will win pen relays one day and I love it that we
• 20:13
  haven't yet because it drives me.
• 20:15
  I mean I I I will jump in a sea of Jamaicans and talk trash
• 20:19
  about the USA and and I love it. You know one year they were like
• 20:23
  they called me Obama because I was talking to USAUSA when the
• 20:26
  USA versus Jamaica. Like I loved it and I will never
• 20:30
  relent. So this this year when when I
• 20:34
  thought we had them and we did and we battled by, we were in
• 20:38
  first and we went from 1st to 4th and 4th to 2nd and then our
• 20:41
  anchor leg had the baton right on the girl from hydel and its
• 20:47
  fans are going crazy and I'm like for a second I was like we
• 20:49
  got them and we finally got them and then then we didn't that we
• 20:54
  lost by 8 tenths of a second .8. You know, we set the American
• 20:59
  record at Penn Relays and you know, blah blah blah, we lost.
• 21:04
  The first thing I saw was like, what did I do wrong?
• 21:06
  Not what did they do wrong, what did I do wrong?
• 21:10
  So and then what I do from there is okay.
• 21:13
  I've got 364 days to figure it out and I and we will figure it
• 21:17
  out. Is that how Coach was when you
• 21:19
  didn't make the finals? Was it like, all right, hey, So
• 21:21
  what? What do we got to do for
• 21:22
  training differently? Or do I need to do more?
• 21:25
  Block starts with you. Is that where you picked that
• 21:27
  up? I think so, absolutely.
• 21:29
  Because what he did was, again, he was very coach.
• 21:33
  Corpus was very methodical, was very, very calculated.
• 21:37
  You know, he didn't, he was not as emotional.
• 21:40
  That's why the snowball fight shocked the crap out of me.
• 21:43
  But he was he was very okay, intellectual okay.
• 21:47
  And but also he was, he was flexible too.
• 21:50
  So he just didn't like it's got to be this way, only this way
• 21:53
  he'd be flexible say well let's let's fix this, let's do that.
• 21:56
  And last, but at least he's personable.
• 21:58
  Like I could talk to him and he didn't.
• 22:01
  I love the fact he always didn't agree with me.
• 22:03
  And again, I will. So, so, so let me tell you this
• 22:05
  part. So when I dove in the track
• 22:08
  Mike, I dove all the way. And I'm that way with anything.
• 22:11
  You know, you talk about with birding and Coach Q, like if if
• 22:14
  if I got into the birding thing, I would be all the way in.
• 22:17
  I'll be all in. That's how I am.
• 22:19
  That's why I can't do. There's two things I can never
• 22:21
  do. I can't do fantasy football and
• 22:24
  I can't, I can't play golf because, yeah, y'all won't see
• 22:28
  me again. Yeah, because I'm like, I will,
• 22:31
  I will all be all the way in, right?
• 22:33
  I echo that. That's.
• 22:34
  And I agree. I have to be careful with what I
• 22:36
  because I'm so curious. But I when I go in, I go in.
• 22:39
  So I have to be. I have to be careful.
• 22:40
  Like, man, there's only so many things, you know, I have to be
• 22:43
  all in on my family. I have to be all in with my
• 22:45
  work. And I have only a couple of
• 22:47
  hobbies because you're right. And I laugh at golfers because,
• 22:49
  I mean, Oh my God, they're they're addicted.
• 22:51
  They're always. I live right by a golf course.
• 22:52
  It's like, Oh my God, you guys are always out there.
• 22:54
  But if I actually like golf, I'd be the same.
• 22:57
  I'd be out there all the time, reading all the magazines, doing
• 23:00
  all the practice, that kind of stuff.
• 23:01
  Yeah, yeah, I agree. My, my problem is that there's
• 23:04
  a, there's a golf course right across the street from Bullis.
• 23:07
  Bullis is a a beautiful campus, sits on like 102 acres of land.
• 23:10
  Right? And it's a golf course right
• 23:12
  across the street. It's in Potomac, MD, which is
• 23:14
  some of the most beautiful parts of the state that you can see,
• 23:17
  right? So they would know where I am.
• 23:20
  I'm like, yeah, no, I'm. Just call me.
• 23:24
  Hey, I'm waving okay now I got to go because I'm on the on the
• 23:27
  green. So that's what I would do
• 23:29
  because I know me I, you know they say you don't you know you
• 23:33
  have to you don't you ever master it.
• 23:35
  You have to it's you against the course kind of thing.
• 23:37
  And so I would be trying to figure it out but anyway, so I
• 23:41
  assure that to say that's how it was in high school and when I
• 23:44
  dove in the track bro like I drove in.
• 23:47
  So this is going to seem crazy, but this is literally what I did
• 23:50
  so that I could understand the sport.
• 23:52
  Whenever the sport was on, I would record it on VHS.
• 23:57
  I'm talking about whenever and I would pause out the commercial
• 24:00
  so I wouldn't have to waste time.
• 24:02
  So when the Olympics was on or the World Championships were on
• 24:05
  the reason why I can tell you or anybody else I was with a
• 24:09
  coaching my one of my biggest coaching mentors if not my
• 24:13
  biggest is Vince Anderson. He's he's like my he's my OG,
• 24:18
  like he's my guy. Like no, no bones about it And
• 24:20
  he's been that way for years just been giving up his time and
• 24:23
  his his wisdom and we were at at U 20s in US A's a couple weeks
• 24:28
  ago and and he's we're just talking through things and he's
• 24:31
  like how'd you know that He's like that's absolutely right.
• 24:33
  I give him time. So, like, yeah, you know, when
• 24:35
  this person broke the world record, this is what happened.
• 24:36
  When this person broke the world record, that happened.
• 24:39
  And I'm like, it's because it goes back to when I was in high
• 24:41
  school, I would record on my VHS and I would play it back over
• 24:46
  and over and over again, like I was watching a movie.
• 24:51
  So where my friends were watching, you know, this movie
• 24:54
  and that movie, how did you see this come out on VHS?
• 24:56
  This came out on Blockbuster, Whatever.
• 24:58
  I wouldn't because I'd be watching.
• 25:00
  I'd be watching the 91 World Championships or the 92 Olympic
• 25:03
  Games or the 93 World Championships, and I would watch
• 25:06
  everything to include the pole vault.
• 25:10
  I would watch it like an hour. I'd just be so captivated by it
• 25:14
  now, but study movement patterns.
• 25:15
  Okay, that's what I was going to ask.
• 25:16
  Were you watching it for the enjoyment of the sport of the
• 25:19
  event with it's the hundreds of pole vault?
• 25:21
  Or were you, especially as a sprinter, breaking down what
• 25:24
  they were doing out of the blocks, what they look like in
• 25:26
  the Max velocity? Like were you actually, you
• 25:29
  know, it's hard. I have all forgiveness of a
• 25:31
  sixteen 1718 year old kid who does not because they're sixteen
• 25:34
  1718 year old kids. But were you watching and
• 25:36
  seeing? Posture and and drives and
• 25:39
  things like that. Yeah I was and and again cuz
• 25:41
  that I figured it out in this that I had all my life.
• 25:44
  Cuz I've never I didn't really have the coaching experts.
• 25:48
  You know, coming up. You know, like I said with
• 25:50
  baseball, I had to figure it out.
• 25:51
  And I had to figure it out with some very talented people around
• 25:54
  me. And and and, you know, by God's
• 25:56
  grace, I did. But I was doing the same thing.
• 25:59
  I'm watching okay, What is he doing?
• 26:00
  What is she doing? Why is she doing it that way?
• 26:02
  And then the cool thing is when they would do the slow mos,
• 26:04
  right, Because we didn't have, like, YouTube, right?
• 26:08
  We had to actually, you know, do that.
• 26:10
  So I watch it. So because I was fascinated by
• 26:14
  something so simple but yet something that could be so
• 26:16
  defined, right? Simply, like, everybody can run
• 26:19
  theoretically like that. You know, That's why I laugh and
• 26:21
  people think it's easy. I get to okay.
• 26:23
  You're right. So I would watch it and then
• 26:27
  watch for move it patterns and then then I'd literally watching
• 26:30
  races is going to sound crazy but I'd watched them hundreds of
• 26:33
  times where I can see it in my brain then then now I have I
• 26:36
  have it in here. I've been downloaded in my
• 26:39
  longterm memory. So we were on a we were at
• 26:43
  Arcadia one year and we decided to to to set up a visit to USC
• 26:48
  and I remember seeing Quincy. Coach Watts and we're we're
• 26:55
  talking and he's talking to my guys, right?
• 26:57
  He's talking to them. It was all obviously, you know,
• 26:59
  legally the right way. There was no insulated
• 27:01
  violations. And he said in in in my best
• 27:05
  race, he's like when I run my best race at the Olympic finals
• 27:10
  and he starts talking. What happened?
• 27:12
  I pulled him to the side. I said, hey coach.
• 27:13
  I said, actually, I disagreed that the best race was the
• 27:17
  Olympic final. When you were in 4371, I said I
• 27:21
  believe your best race was the Olympic semifinal.
• 27:23
  When you were in 4350 and you slowed down at the.
• 27:26
  When you shut it down at 30 meters, his face froze.
• 27:31
  How did you know that? You're right, that is my best
• 27:35
  race. But I never tell anybody about
• 27:37
  it because I'm like, it's that kid who was watching him over
• 27:41
  and over again. I remember watching what he did.
• 27:44
  I remember where he was at at at 100.
• 27:46
  I remember he was at 1:50. I remember where he was.
• 27:48
  Where is it 300? I remember he's shutting it down
• 27:50
  at 370. I remember the whole thing like,
• 27:52
  I'm watching it right now as we're talking.
• 27:54
  And for him to like to to do that, first of all, it's cool
• 27:57
  for me. I was like, hey, you know, But
• 28:00
  it's just that's just how I got I guess the way that I am and
• 28:04
  that's cool, makes the coaching today hopefully and I still do
• 28:07
  the things. But now we got like phones and
• 28:09
  stuff. I don't.
• 28:09
  Have to Yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes technologies made life
• 28:12
  easier. That's for sure not easier.
• 28:14
  So where does this take you as you look into your senior year?
• 28:19
  I have to imagine because of how you described your parents and
• 28:23
  your relationship with Coach, who's a teacher as well, that
• 28:25
  you started looking at colleges and with your talent a where did
• 28:29
  you look at and where did you know going?
• 28:31
  But even more importantly, what were, what was the plan then?
• 28:34
  As an 1817 eighteen year old kid?
• 28:36
  I'm going to go major in XY&Z. I'm going to become a scientist,
• 28:41
  a firefighter, whatever. Yeah, I didn't really.
• 28:44
  I knew I wanted to be an athlete.
• 28:46
  I want to be a professional athlete.
• 28:47
  I knew that was my path. It wound up not being that well.
• 28:50
  I ran post collegiately one year, but you know, I wasn't
• 28:54
  really making any real money. So it's like it wasn't.
• 28:56
  Yeah. But anyway, so I just, I set my
• 28:59
  mind that I wanted to make the Olympic team and be a
• 29:02
  professional athlete. So that's what was going to
• 29:04
  happen, you know? And again, I was planning on
• 29:06
  figuring it out, but a funny thing happened to me called
• 29:10
  pneumonia. So my junior year I was, you
• 29:13
  know, USA or whatever. My senior year I I had walking
• 29:18
  pneumonia, like, so I I didn't know it.
• 29:22
  I just remember being sick and my respiratory system was
• 29:24
  affected. I remember being tired and
• 29:26
  training and races. And I was, I was just like, oh,
• 29:29
  you'll figure it out. You'll figure it out.
• 29:32
  It's I guess it's a strength of mine.
• 29:33
  But it also could be a weakness because I won't stop until I
• 29:36
  have to. And doctors couldn't figure out,
• 29:38
  doctors couldn't figure it out that my mom was taking me to.
• 29:40
  So finally she took me to my pediatrician as a child.
• 29:44
  He said, you have well and then because I'm 17, I'm like, I'm
• 29:47
  not going into this little bitch.
• 29:49
  Like, dude, shut up, you're going.
• 29:51
  And I was like mom, my mama's 5 foot two, but she cast a shadow
• 29:55
  of. Like 8 foot?
• 29:56
  Yeah, exactly. Right.
• 29:58
  So, so, yeah. So when he said, you know, you
• 30:01
  you have to walk in the morning, I was like, oh, and I was so
• 30:04
  thankful that I got an answer because I'm going to meets where
• 30:08
  people who I would destroy are now destroying me.
• 30:12
  And I'm like, you don't even know.
• 30:13
  But I can't say that because it looks sounds like a sore loser
• 30:17
  or like, hey, you're not working on.
• 30:18
  No, I'm working twice as hard, trust me, because I'm I'm, I'm,
• 30:22
  I'm investing in this thing. So to answer your question, I
• 30:26
  wanted to, I wanted to go to UNC Chapel Hill.
• 30:29
  It's funny because Milton Campbell, who is on, he's a
• 30:32
  national champ from down there or he went to Chapel Hill and
• 30:35
  his brother, my brother, our friends, actually his brother
• 30:38
  and his brother and I are friends and he just texted me
• 30:41
  last night and so I was supposed to be on that team was like
• 30:43
  Milton Campbell, Tony McCall. They won a national title in
• 30:46
  four by one and they did a lot of other stuff.
• 30:48
  So I wanted to be on that team I was recruited by.
• 30:51
  I got a letter from every school in the country, but two.
• 30:54
  And I can't even remember who the two were.
• 30:56
  I think one of them was Baylor, which is ironic.
• 30:59
  It goes 1/4 mile, but I can't remember who the other one was.
• 31:04
  But and when the when my pneumonia said and everybody
• 31:09
  backed off. So I remember having a
• 31:11
  conversation with the head coach at the time who's now passed
• 31:16
  away coach credit and we're at Penn Relays and he's like okay
• 31:20
  because I started to come out of it because I was you know
• 31:22
  medication. So but I still wasn't hitting.
• 31:23
  I think I was running like 48 at the time which back then was you
• 31:26
  know in the 90s was you know built but you know now it's like
• 31:29
  48 but I was running faster my junior.
• 31:35
  But my my point is, he said to me, he said, you know, well we
• 31:41
  definitely want you here and we want you to come, but will you
• 31:44
  still come if we pay for your books?
• 31:47
  I'm like and what else? Books and right.
• 31:51
  Books and right, so I said books.
• 31:53
  I said wait, I said no, it's like I saw my value is more than
• 31:57
  that. That's what I try to tell the
• 31:59
  kids even now in the in the process like know your value.
• 32:03
  Know your value and who you are. But and also know your value in
• 32:07
  what you do and if you feel that your value is not what is being
• 32:11
  offered, whether it be in a relationship or whether it be in
• 32:14
  a scholarship, then don't take it you.
• 32:16
  It's okay to bet on yourself. So I bet on myself and I said
• 32:21
  no, I'm not going to take out two just go to my school my
• 32:23
  dreams which my brother actually happened to go there as well.
• 32:27
  I also wanted to go to Tennessee.
• 32:28
  There were a lot of schools like Tennessee and Texas were my top
• 32:31
  ones in my junior. But then everybody backed off
• 32:33
  because I was sick and I wasn't running fast.
• 32:35
  And Long story short I chose to go to Howard University.
• 32:39
  Yeah. Because he offered me a full
• 32:41
  scholarship. The same meet at Penn Relins.
• 32:42
  He's like, I have a full scholarship for you right now.
• 32:44
  It's like what? I was like who First of all my
• 32:48
  name is Jolie. You know let's start there.
• 32:53
  And. But he had heard about me from
• 32:55
  one of his one of his athletes on the team, Stacy Jordan shot
• 33:00
  her out. She's she said you need to get
• 33:04
  Jolie because we ran summer track together and so he offered
• 33:08
  me 4 four ride. I came down on a trip.
• 33:10
  I loved the school. I didn't love that they weren't
• 33:14
  at the top of the game because I I I always want to compete at
• 33:18
  the top. The best of the best right.
• 33:21
  But I said OK well you bring a good recruiting class in you
• 33:25
  know you bring me along with them we we'll get you there and
• 33:28
  we had a bomb recruiting class. Mike we did.
• 33:31
  We had you know, trust me, we had some, we had a we had a
• 33:36
  squad. So that's that's where where I
• 33:39
  started. It didn't work out there.
• 33:42
  I stayed there for two years, tried to make it work.
• 33:44
  First year I knew it didn't it was it was going South and the
• 33:49
  second year it it just got worse And then I got you know, getting
• 33:53
  injured and and I was like this is not, this is not track and
• 33:56
  field the way I know it to be. And it was hard to decision for
• 34:00
  me because I love the school and I love the DMV when I came down
• 34:03
  to to Washington, DC So my prayer was all right, I say,
• 34:07
  okay, God, can you just keep me in the area and put me on a bomb
• 34:12
  track team? Right.
• 34:13
  That was my prayer as a kid, right.
• 34:15
  So and then lo and behold, here's George Mason.
• 34:18
  So George Mason in the 90s, we were that deal.
• 34:23
  So I went to George Mason. I just, I just again, betting on
• 34:28
  myself, believing in me. I jumped on the Metro and took
• 34:32
  the bus and went to a track meet that they had bumped into one of
• 34:39
  their runners. His name is Lewis Sales.
• 34:42
  We come Nick Demchenko. He ran.
• 34:44
  He was an Allamerican there. He didn't know me from Adam.
• 34:47
  I said, excuse me, I just, I need to find your coach.
• 34:51
  And he's like, yeah, who are you?
• 34:52
  I was like, hey, I'm sure I run for Howard and I want to come
• 34:55
  here. And he was like, I got you.
• 34:59
  Come on, let me introduce you to him.
• 35:00
  And then he talked me up to coach Ebanks who was the
• 35:03
  assistant coach at the time and he was later on the head coach.
• 35:07
  And Coach Ebanks has since passed away, have passed away of
• 35:09
  COVID, unfortunately. But they let me on the team and
• 35:13
  I came in as a walk on. I left my full scholarship on
• 35:16
  the table to walk on because I I believed in me and better
• 35:19
  myself. And that very next year, I made
• 35:23
  the done. I made the team, but made the
• 35:24
  four by four, made Allamerican and we won a national
• 35:28
  championship. Wow.
• 35:29
  Holy cow dude. There's a lot to unpack there.
• 35:33
  Sorry, I didn't. No, no, no, it's great.
• 35:35
  I love that, cuz one of the things that actually is I think
• 35:38
  about kind of two things as I relate to what you were doing
• 35:42
  and going through during this time frame to.
• 35:45
  What we what we as a society are going through today.
• 35:47
  So like one of the questions I I wondered and I and I realized
• 35:50
  you ended up transferring to George Mason.
• 35:52
  But you know Howard. You know first of all shout out
• 35:55
  to David Oliver. He's doing an amazing, amazing
• 35:57
  job. He's killing it there.
• 35:59
  But you know Howard is you know a very well respected HBCU and
• 36:03
  in today and by the way I I'm sitting here as a as a white guy
• 36:07
  saying this OK in the culture of HBCU's I don't know have ever
• 36:11
  been hotter as far as like cool to go to cool to support.
• 36:15
  And you know, sometimes people don't realize, well, you know,
• 36:17
  HBCU has been around for a long, long time by the way.
• 36:21
  There's a lot more of them out there than you think.
• 36:22
  By the way, it's not just the ones that are getting pub like
• 36:25
  Jackson State because of Dion and you know, Howard, things
• 36:27
  like that. What was it?
• 36:30
  What was the culture like when you were looking at schools and
• 36:33
  you and you, you know, and Howard reaches out?
• 36:35
  Was it like, was it a sense of like, like, I feel like today if
• 36:38
  if a David Oliver, and granted, I know it's DIO calling you, but
• 36:42
  if Howard calls you or FAMU calls you, you know Garfield's
• 36:45
  there. I hesitate to say because
• 36:47
  there's a million amazing, great HBCU's out there.
• 36:50
  There's a sense of like, oh man, it's cool, you know, for the
• 36:52
  culture, for my own self and and ethnicity, things like that.
• 36:55
  Was it like that at all back then or was it just a it's a
• 36:58
  school and they have a track program.
• 37:01
  I'll answer the question, but do me a favor when you next time
• 37:04
  you see or talk to Garfield, ask him who won the IC4A4 by 1/4 by
• 37:11
  100 at back in the last time we ran.
• 37:16
  So just ask him that. You know, as soon as we get
• 37:19
  done, I'm a texting that's my. I mean, I love G Man.
• 37:21
  Come on, I anchored it. And he'll he'll.
• 37:26
  He'll remember the rest. Or he'll conveniently forget,
• 37:30
  right, Right, Right. Like I.
• 37:31
  Don't know what he's talking about, man.
• 37:32
  I don't even. I wasn't even there.
• 37:34
  Yeah, that's funny. So, So growing up in Newark, NJ
• 37:41
  and spending summer times in New York City, you didn't hear a lot
• 37:46
  about HBC US. You know, it's kind of like
• 37:49
  that. You know, there there weren't
• 37:50
  many up north or as many. Which is funny, by the way, cuz
• 37:54
  the original is in Pennsylvania, right?
• 37:57
  Langston. Lincoln, Lincoln, Lincoln,
• 37:58
  Lincoln, Lincoln. I think it's.
• 38:00
  Yeah, I think I thought it was Langston.
• 38:01
  Could be wrong one of them so. It's the original, right?
• 38:04
  Yeah, I should know. I know.
• 38:05
  There's. I know Lincoln.
• 38:06
  I know them well. But yeah so but most of them are
• 38:11
  are are South and and further because you know historically,
• 38:16
  you know we couldn't go to the schools that we'd want to so
• 38:18
  great we'll create our own again figure it out.
• 38:21
  And I love that about our culture and just people in
• 38:24
  general, you know. But when so I didn't know much
• 38:28
  about Howard. I knew of it and because my my
• 38:32
  one of my good friends in high school was going there as well.
• 38:36
  My one of my classmates, yeah, A J, his A J Callaway.
• 38:41
  He wound up doing a bunch of stuff with BET and like 106 in
• 38:45
  Park. He's did all that.
• 38:46
  So I'm like, dude, why even go to school?
• 38:48
  You know he's just going to go and do that Hollywood thing And
• 38:50
  he did phenomenal. But I know he was going there
• 38:53
  and it was just me and him. So he's like, yeah, I'm going to
• 38:55
  Howard. I'm like why like why don't you
• 38:57
  go there as opposed to all these other schools.
• 39:00
  And, and and he told me it's like it's you know HBC U's are
• 39:03
  different. So when I got down there, I
• 39:06
  understood what the difference was.
• 39:08
  Now when I say different, I don't mean better.
• 39:11
  I don't believe in that better, you better than I didn't tell
• 39:13
  our kids all the time like look program is not better than
• 39:16
  anybody else's. We just do.
• 39:17
  We're just different and and our differences don't have to be
• 39:20
  compared to somebody else's. Because if you start doing that
• 39:22
  compare as a mentor of mine used to say, if you compare and you
• 39:26
  compete, you live in defeat, right?
• 39:28
  You compare, you compete. You live in defeat because it's
• 39:30
  always going to be somebody who you find is better than you.
• 39:33
  So let's we're all different and it's okay and differences are
• 39:35
  not bad. And I believe personally that if
• 39:37
  we embrace 1 another's differences, you know, just like
• 39:40
  I picked that out. What you said I'm a white guy
• 39:42
  but you were given, you know, props to HPC, us.
• 39:45
  Well that dude. That's how the role becomes a
• 39:47
  better place. Like it's that you don't have to
• 39:50
  be intimidated at my differences.
• 39:52
  It's like I don't have to be intimidated about yours.
• 39:55
  I can if I learn from them. I don't have to have your
• 39:58
  experience. To to make it, to make it
• 40:03
  something that I have, Let me say it a different way.
• 40:07
  No, I think you're on the right track.
• 40:09
  I think you're exactly right. Because this is a part of the
• 40:11
  part of society where we we can't have we big swath here.
• 40:16
  We can't have empathy for someone else until it affects
• 40:18
  me. Well, that's not good.
• 40:20
  Like we have to have empathy even though it doesn't happen to
• 40:23
  me. We have to build.
• 40:24
  You said it right. You have to learn from others.
• 40:26
  That's. I think you're spot on.
• 40:28
  Yeah. You don't.
• 40:28
  So I don't I don't have to have your experience for it to impact
• 40:31
  my own, right. Right.
• 40:33
  Or for it to improve my own. And I think so.
• 40:38
  When I went to Howard and I didn't understand it as a as a
• 40:41
  17 year old, an 18 year old and when I got there, I was like oh
• 40:44
  wow, OKI can be at a place where people who have a similar
• 40:52
  background to me are very different because look every
• 40:55
  just like every white person you need alike every black person
• 40:57
  you like. You know there's there's
• 40:59
  cultures within the culture, within the culture.
• 41:02
  But the things that I learned there about this just the love
• 41:04
  and the appreciation of self. Because when you live in a
• 41:06
  society that doesn't always appreciate everything about you
• 41:11
  or who would just appreciate the convenient things about you.
• 41:16
  I like what Jalen Rose said. He said I wish America love
• 41:18
  black people as much as they do black culture.
• 41:23
  So and and that's not a that's not a shot at like white people
• 41:29
  spend. It's just like like look if we
• 41:31
  can just appreciate one another for who we are we're going to
• 41:36
  wind up being better as a society.
• 41:37
  So anyway, blah blah blah blah blah Joe, get off your, your,
• 41:40
  your. Soapbox.
• 41:41
  It's good. It's good.
• 41:43
  So another thing that in that story I wanted to unpack is you
• 41:46
  transferred and you know that's a pretty hot topic in today's
• 41:50
  collegiate and high school track and field world, the transfer
• 41:54
  portal. It's really interesting to me
• 41:56
  that you know now that we have the transfer transfer portal
• 41:58
  which has been around now for five ish 6 years, but for some
• 42:02
  reason we now feel like this is the first time kids have ever
• 42:05
  been able to transfer it. So, like, it's really weird
• 42:07
  thing, but you know, kids have been transferring.
• 42:10
  From back in the day, for many, many, many reasons, you had your
• 42:14
  reasons for why you transferred. Fast forwarding to today and
• 42:18
  we're going to continue on your journey here in a second.
• 42:20
  But as a high school coach, are you seeing, Let me ask you a
• 42:25
  different way, what are you seeing in regards to recruiting
• 42:27
  and how the transfer portal may or may not be affecting that
• 42:30
  recruiting out of high school? I think it's hurting high school
• 42:35
  athletes. Really.
• 42:36
  How so? Because a college coach can go
• 42:41
  and get a proven commodity rather than one who has never
• 42:45
  done it before. And I know there are coaches who
• 42:49
  who subscribe to that level of of of of thinking.
• 42:53
  And I'm not saying it's wrong or bad, it's just different, you
• 42:56
  know, trust me, I know it was a very good friend of mine in
• 42:59
  college coaching who's very successful.
• 43:01
  I won't say his name, but that's what they do.
• 43:05
  They transfer reporter all day long.
• 43:08
  So I think it hurts so, so it hurts the high school athlete.
• 43:12
  When I say hurts meaning you you there are less opportunities so
• 43:16
  you have to work. That's much more.
• 43:17
  Okay, so let's let's go on to this.
• 43:20
  I'm glad you said that. So this is where, as the host, I
• 43:23
  get the challenge and ask you to Yeah, let's do it.
• 43:25
  I mean, again, we're just talking, man.
• 43:26
  I don't. I mean.
• 43:28
  So when you say there's less opportunities and you know, OK,
• 43:31
  Full disclosure, I have not coached college track for 17
• 43:34
  years. My last place was at Mississippi
• 43:35
  State, and that was a long time before the transfer.
• 43:38
  Hey Bulldogs. Yeah baby, you know what?
• 43:40
  Long time ago, things are definitely different.
• 43:42
  The heck the SEC is different from what I was in it, right.
• 43:46
  But if the quote UN quote big schools are going to go out and
• 43:51
  get all the transfers. So let's just let's just for for
• 43:54
  simplicity's sake, say all the power fives which.
• 43:56
  Which is a total misnomer because there's a whole bunch of
• 43:58
  different divisions inside of Power Five, trust me, But all
• 44:01
  the power fives, they're not going to do any more high school
• 44:03
  recruiting. They're only going to go out and
• 44:05
  get transfers from the quote UN quote mid majors or amongst
• 44:07
  themselves, by the way. Which means there's no more
• 44:10
  scholarship money for great high school kids.
• 44:12
  Doesn't that mean Because if like just recently I saw on
• 44:16
  Twitter this really good sprinter from Arkansas State, I
• 44:19
  believe just transferred to Louisiana to LSU?
• 44:23
  OK, so there was a transfer portal thing, but now there's a
• 44:26
  scholarship open at Arkansas State and obviously they did a
• 44:29
  good enough job that LSU came calling for that kid.
• 44:32
  So there there must be, and I know those guys and guys really
• 44:35
  well, they are good coaches. There's a lot of great coaches
• 44:37
  in all divisions. That kid transferred.
• 44:39
  That means there's a scholarship at Arkansas State.
• 44:41
  That means whatever kid transferred from small
• 44:44
  university U to big university U, there's a scholarship open.
• 44:50
  There's still scholarships open. Yeah.
• 44:52
  I I, I think in theory you're right, Mike.
• 44:56
  It's like you're just shifting deck chairs, you know?
• 45:00
  Yes. So however, as a friend of mine
• 45:04
  says, however comma, there's a larger pool.
• 45:15
  It's an international pool now. See, back when I was at George
• 45:19
  Mason, we would see when we won our national championship in
• 45:22
  George Mason, we were frowned upon.
• 45:24
  You had a lot of international students.
• 45:26
  We had a lot. I mean, I was, I was the
• 45:28
  minority. And I mean because I'm back.
• 45:30
  I mean because I'm American on our team, back in Mason and shot
• 45:34
  out our head coach, John Cook, who had the the vision to be
• 45:40
  able to say, look, everybody in the world should deserve a
• 45:43
  chance at bettering their life and using a sport to do so.
• 45:47
  But he was an immigrant Coach Cook was from German.
• 45:50
  He was a German. He's an immigrant.
• 45:52
  So he had the immigrant experience.
• 45:54
  So that's before the Internet and all that kind of stuff.
• 45:58
  So it's harder. And people didn't know, but we
• 46:00
  had people on our team from literally on Somalia.
• 46:04
  Julius. HM was from Somalia.
• 46:06
  Julius Julius was from Uganda. Ibby was for Abraham.
• 46:12
  Aiden was from Somalia. I mean you know Greg Haughton
• 46:15
  and Ian weekly and a ton of Jamaicans.
• 46:16
  So we had ton of Jamaicans on our team.
• 46:18
  We had we had two guys from Hungary which I love, you know,
• 46:21
  it's fun. Bagula how you like that isn't
• 46:24
  it? It's fun.
• 46:25
  And Miklos are posi you know those are my guys and but and
• 46:29
  and you know Sam was from Canada.
• 46:30
  I mean, so we had guys from all over the world on our team and
• 46:34
  we were like the United Nations and I I learned so much from
• 46:38
  those guys and they learn from me hopefully and and and and
• 46:42
  when again, when you break down those stereotypes and you
• 46:46
  realize that, wait a minute, our differences do not necessarily
• 46:49
  have to divide us. Now we can, we can do more
• 46:54
  together, right. And that's what we did.
• 46:57
  So you know, but we were it was frowned upon because there were
• 47:00
  certain schools that were like, no, we're just American all the
• 47:02
  way. And they were found.
• 47:03
  So we won our national title. They were like.
• 47:04
  That that's its own whole separate topic of quote UN
• 47:08
  quote. Buying athletes, Which.
• 47:10
  Always cracks me up because it's the same thing we're doing with
• 47:12
  American high schoolers. We're quote UN quote buying.
• 47:15
  We're buying athletes. We're we're it's a scholarship.
• 47:17
  We're, I mean, I never understood just because they
• 47:19
  don't come from the US, it's, it's buying a team or buying a
• 47:22
  title. It's like I don't think, I don't
• 47:24
  understand it and I still don't understand it.
• 47:25
  Now it's more readily accepted. So here's my point back to what
• 47:28
  you said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:29
  So the the international game, so to speak, or the
• 47:33
  international pool of athletes is widened so much.
• 47:37
  So yeah, you'll have someone go from, you know, Louisiana Tech
• 47:41
  or wherever you said to LSU and that opens up something from
• 47:44
  Louisiana Tech. Well, guess what?
• 47:46
  They're looking at the portal too.
• 47:48
  And then they're looking internationally too.
• 47:50
  And if the if the high school kids are tertiary there to where
• 47:54
  they're not the first or second, now they're the third.
• 47:56
  Look, it just makes it harder, doesn't make it impossible.
• 47:58
  I'm not saying high school, oh, high school.
• 48:02
  I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it makes it
• 48:04
  harder now. I'm Jolie.
• 48:07
  I don't care about it being harder.
• 48:08
  The great is harder now. Now step your game up and like I
• 48:11
  had to do figure it out. I don't.
• 48:13
  I don't. I don't.
• 48:14
  I let my athletes feel sorry for themselves.
• 48:15
  But I am saying the portal has changed the game where it's it's
• 48:19
  it's not as easy I'll say for a high school athlete who has a
• 48:24
  numbers where six or seven years ago Oh yeah they they they would
• 48:29
  they would jump at you. I mean respectfully.
• 48:31
  I have a girl at around 11/6 and she just signed Monday and she's
• 48:38
  a brilliant young lady. She's an engineering major.
• 48:40
  Turn 1165 when legal. She plays in the finals of
• 48:43
  Nationals two years in a row. Okay.
• 48:46
  And she's she's she's got a four point OGPA and and she's not
• 48:51
  Why? Because 11-6 now, yeah, I can
• 48:56
  get 11/3. You see what I'm saying?
• 48:58
  And I'm not. Again, I'm not.
• 49:00
  I'm not hating on a system. I'm like, look, it is what it
• 49:03
  is. You just deal with it.
• 49:04
  But if it's injustice, then I step up.
• 49:06
  I don't think it's injust. I just think it's it's not, it's
• 49:11
  harder now for the high school athlete.
• 49:13
  I think you're spot on. I think of it in a supply and
• 49:15
  demand. Type of situation.
• 49:17
  I think it is much, much harder for a kid maybe to get a
• 49:20
  scholarship or a big scholarship at the number one school of
• 49:23
  their choice. And that usually is dictated by
• 49:25
  what's happening in college football, by the way.
• 49:28
  But that's where I think that that is much, much harder.
• 49:31
  But I also believe it's your fault.
• 49:33
  And what I mean by that is high school coaching has also risen
• 49:38
  tremendously. And so you're right, 11-6 might
• 49:41
  it used to be #20 in the US. 20 years ago and now 11/6 is like,
• 49:46
  Oh yeah, you're not 100, that's still great.
• 49:48
  But high school coaching in high school athletes and then of
• 49:51
  course the advent of social media and communication has made
• 49:55
  international recruiting much, much easier as well.
• 49:57
  So I think the supply has gone up in the, I'm sorry, the
• 50:02
  demand, which makes the demand go higher because also the one
• 50:06
  thing is never one thing, right? But you also have to look at
• 50:09
  these super conferences when SEC was 12 teams versus now at 16.
• 50:13
  Well, that makes an 11/6 kid also less valuable because at 12
• 50:17
  teams I might be able to take a chance at 11-6 kid and buy a
• 50:20
  sophomore, junior, senior year. They're running 11/3 and they're
• 50:22
  making finals nowadays. You're running 11/3 in the SECI
• 50:27
  hope you're on the four by one team, but you're not making
• 50:29
  finals. No, you're not.
• 50:31
  No, you're not. Making finals, so that makes
• 50:33
  that 11/6, unfortunately less valuable in that world.
• 50:36
  But it's definitely certainly has a lot of lot of value.
• 50:38
  So yeah, I like I said I I was blaming the high school coaches,
• 50:40
  like, you know, if you weren't producing so many great kids.
• 50:42
  A little bit easier. A little bit easier.
• 50:44
  Let's keep moving on, Joe. There's a lot of.
• 50:46
  I think we're gonna get into a lot of these great topics, which
• 50:47
  I love and appreciate. So you graduate from George
• 50:51
  Mason. What did you end up graduating
• 50:52
  in? And what happened next?
• 50:55
  So it's funny, I changed my major like three times in
• 50:59
  college. I didn't know what the heck I
• 51:00
  was going to do, especially when I realized that, wait a minute,
• 51:02
  I'm not going to. See, here's another crazy topic.
• 51:04
  How crazy is it that we make 18 year old kids?
• 51:08
  Choose what's going to be the rest of their life.
• 51:10
  That's just, to me, is still insane in this world.
• 51:13
  Yeah, yeah, 18. Pick what you're going to do for
• 51:15
  the rest of your life right. Good luck exactly and and and
• 51:18
  most of the time it's not what you wind up doing or if you do
• 51:21
  it and you find out you hate it. I I just philosophically I, I I
• 51:25
  just I think there there's there's some things that should
• 51:27
  be done differently the way that college works and things like
• 51:29
  that like and I I think there needs to be more like your your
• 51:33
  leadership and and and and strengthbased like OK something
• 51:37
  called the Clifton strengths. Right.
• 51:38
  Right. And it talks about you know that
• 51:40
  you're you're just how you're how you're wired what your
• 51:43
  makeup is you know mine is my top five are a Ranger developer
• 51:49
  harmony achiever and belief. Right.
• 51:52
  So those are my top five clips and shift check it out if you
• 51:54
  have it it's it's a game changer and just help you understand who
• 51:57
  you are as a person. Why you why this.
• 52:00
  I know there are thousand different tests like this.
• 52:01
  I get it you know Myers bricks whatever.
• 52:02
  But that one has, it's been the best one I've seen hands down.
• 52:06
  And why don't we have courses like that.
• 52:09
  And then before we're saying choose a major, let's let's find
• 52:11
  out who you are and how you're wired and what you do well or
• 52:14
  what you do great And and then you know even how we do grades
• 52:19
  and you know we tend to focus on.
• 52:23
  All right. You got a D here.
• 52:24
  Well how about how about this how about if the things that we
• 52:28
  didn't do well at you know we we we create a separate category
• 52:32
  for them and then let's focus on the ones that they do as opposed
• 52:34
  to saying hey your GPA your overall GPA is what does that
• 52:36
  matter. I wasn't a great student in
• 52:39
  school because I was bored people didn't realize like like
• 52:42
  I I I was that leadership was in my DNA like you know I have a a
• 52:48
  mentor of mine who who has a great way to to break it down.
• 52:52
  It's like look if you're if you let in the neighborhood you're
• 52:55
  more of an entrepreneur right. You like you know if you're like
• 52:59
  the guy who came out and everybody neighborhoods
• 53:00
  following you're more of an entrepreneurship kind of leader.
• 53:03
  If you let in school in the classroom you're more of a
• 53:07
  you're more of a corporate kind of leader.
• 53:08
  You know, his name is Bob Bill. He's great stuff.
• 53:11
  He's he's a brilliant man and and so, but I'm a blend of both
• 53:15
  like I let in the neighborhood and school.
• 53:17
  So I so, so guess what, years later now decades later.
• 53:20
  Yeah. I'm an entrepreneur, you know,
• 53:22
  But also, you know, work professionally and I blend both
• 53:25
  of those in my world because I understand me.
• 53:28
  I'm like as an 18 year old, I had no idea about this stuff.
• 53:31
  But how about if a 45 year old helped me figure it out?
• 53:33
  As opposed to saying you got to figure you got to tell me what
• 53:36
  the Pythagorean Theorem is or something like that that I'm
• 53:39
  never going to use or even even spell.
• 53:41
  Yeah, I don't care if my doctor busted his butt to make a A in
• 53:45
  English. I care that he was really good
• 53:47
  in sciences. Exactly.
• 53:49
  And vice versa. Exactly.
• 53:50
  So. So anyway, But I mean, I'm not
• 53:52
  saying I'm not. I'm not trying to like those
• 53:53
  shade at college, say, oh, the college.
• 53:55
  Yeah, I'm not saying. I'm just saying.
• 53:56
  It's education in general, absolutely.
• 53:58
  But yeah, we got it. I mean, you think about things
• 54:00
  like like how we communicate like just technology, like like
• 54:04
  the phone, right? Like it's we've had so many
• 54:07
  advances in the phone in the past 20 years and we're still
• 54:12
  doing or or or how about transportation, how about tech?
• 54:16
  How about what we're doing right now?
• 54:18
  Right, in the past 50 years and what we're doing right now, but
• 54:20
  like we're still doing school the same way, that doesn't make
• 54:24
  sense to me. Now again, I will shout out, I'm
• 54:26
  talking about college. I'll shout out a place like
• 54:27
  bullets. Like I'm sitting here in a in a
• 54:29
  in a media lab where they teach next level kind of stuff.
• 54:33
  And when people come here like, well, whoa, there's there's so
• 54:36
  much more here than just the books and the X's and O's.
• 54:39
  Like, yeah, that's that's how more places should be.
• 54:41
  And I'm not trying to in school. What I'm just saying like that's
• 54:44
  why I believe in places like this and and even on the college
• 54:47
  level where my my daughter goes to a school called Scads
• 54:51
  Savannah College for Art and Design.
• 54:53
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 54:54
  And they they just do it differently.
• 54:56
  They their, their their approach to education is so far
• 54:58
  different. And I'm like now that's how we
• 55:01
  advance because when you do things different then you figure
• 55:03
  out what works, what doesn't work and then that's how we
• 55:05
  advance society. As opposed to let me do it this
• 55:08
  way because always was done this way and it never should be done
• 55:11
  any different. Yeah, that's just me.
• 55:13
  So what? So what, Did you graduate?
• 55:16
  Oh, sorry. Like wait a minute, yeah, what
• 55:23
  is he talking about? Yeah, there was a question so
• 55:18
  far somewhere, You know, look, that's how my brain works, man.
• 55:20
  And if he put it? So or or there's somebody in
• 55:26
  there who's like really analytical and and and very
• 55:28
  linear. Who's like Okay?
• 55:31
  Oh yeah, is he going to get? Back to the point we bounce, so,
• 55:35
  so I want to being a a psych major.
• 55:39
  So yeah, I want to be in a psychology major and that's only
• 55:42
  because I got tired of changing my major, because I started in
• 55:45
  international business and I was like then I took statistics, I
• 55:47
  was like, this is weird. I don't like this.
• 55:49
  So no, I don't want to do that more.
• 55:51
  Then I did elementary education, okay.
• 55:53
  And then I then I wanted to be premed, believe it or not.
• 55:55
  So I was a premed major, but I didn't want to take sciences.
• 55:57
  So I was like, how can I go premed and not take a science?
• 56:00
  They're like, oh, just take a behavioral science.
• 56:02
  Oh, really? There's that.
• 56:03
  I was like, yeah, Psychology. Oh, I like figuring things out,
• 56:05
  you know? So then I was like, now, when I
• 56:07
  realized I didn't want to go to Med school for eight years, that
• 56:10
  kind of stuff. I said, all right, I'm just
• 56:12
  going to go ahead and stick with psychology because, you know,
• 56:14
  I'm tired of switching and I got to get out of here some kind.
• 56:18
  Of that's what happened. So what happened after
• 56:22
  graduation? You said you tried to run the
• 56:24
  circuit, trying to make it a go at that, which is like one of
• 56:26
  the most impossible things in the world.
• 56:28
  What had had that work out and what was next?
• 56:30
  Well, it didn't work out cuz I only did it one year.
• 56:33
  There's a lot of fun though. I mean I tried, you know, ran
• 56:37
  for a track club local in in Jersey and you know, let's say
• 56:43
  made a little money. I mean, they paid for my hotel
• 56:45
  and it's hard. I mean, so, you know, people
• 56:48
  don't realize that, first of all, track professional track
• 56:51
  athletes. I believe they're severely
• 56:52
  underpaid. And again, I I'm probably going
• 56:56
  to get myself in trouble because I've got friends who, you know,
• 57:00
  work at those places and I'm not don't shade.
• 57:02
  I'm just saying like, you know, there's a lot of money globally
• 57:06
  in the sport, you know, if you look at it in total.
• 57:09
  So I'm not just that's not a that's not a shot at the shoe
• 57:12
  companies. There's more that can be done.
• 57:15
  And and then I've had some conversations with some former
• 57:18
  professional athletes like from way back in the day and there's
• 57:22
  like, oh, trust me, we were getting paid more thin than we
• 57:24
  are now than they are now, like appearance fees and stuff.
• 57:27
  He's like these people, like, trust me.
• 57:29
  So I don't think and I don't I don't get into that because I'm
• 57:32
  still a high school coach. But it was tough man and and and
• 57:37
  so I had to get a job. I had to get a job.
• 57:42
  So I wound up working at WT Woodson High School which had an
• 57:47
  adult high school completion program.
• 57:48
  So I was helping people get their high school diplomas and
• 57:51
  not their Judy's with actual high school diplomas.
• 57:52
  And my, my godmother, her name is Jane Cruz and she's another
• 57:58
  influencer in my life, as well as her husband Ron.
• 58:01
  They I I worked for her and just just substitute teaching and you
• 58:07
  know, just kind of not helping, you know, with safety and
• 58:10
  security. You know that that kind of that.
• 58:12
  I just. I needed a job.
• 58:13
  What was was coaching at all in your mind at this point?
• 58:16
  Or were you still almost like in survival mode?
• 58:18
  Like said, you needed a job, So yeah, I needed a job.
• 58:21
  So what happened is because I was at the high school, so I
• 58:23
  worked at the the night portion, school portion of it, right.
• 58:26
  So I worked from like 3 to midnight or something like that,
• 58:28
  2:00 to 10:00. And then when I would come there
• 58:30
  I'd see the track team practicing and I said, hey, I
• 58:35
  just ran to George Mason which is right up the road.
• 58:37
  WT Wilson's in Fairfax, VA That's where Mason is as well as
• 58:40
  like if you need help, let me know.
• 58:41
  It's like Oh yeah, we need help. You know.
• 58:42
  So I came in and I coached. That's actually the second time
• 58:47
  I ever coached track and field is there.
• 58:49
  When I jumped on and was there Sprint coach and we we had about
• 58:53
  two basketball players, a soccer player and one girl who actually
• 58:57
  had some track experience and we I said okay, we're just going to
• 59:01
  put a great four by one together.
• 59:03
  They're like coach, we don't know how to we don't even know
• 59:06
  how to pass a stick. Are you going to put a great one
• 59:10
  together and like, haha funny. So we worked at it and they
• 59:16
  trusted me and I remember that team like like it was yesterday
• 59:20
  and we wound up winning our section at Districts in the four
• 59:23
  by one with some flawless, beautiful passes.
• 59:26
  And I was just the happiest coach in the world.
• 59:28
  I was as happy doing that, believe it or not, as winning
• 59:31
  some of the things that we've won at this level.
• 59:34
  That was the second time I coached.
• 59:35
  The first time I coached was in high school.
• 59:37
  Actually my summer track team, my coach could not be both
• 59:40
  places and he was like, all right, you this is.
• 59:45
  I'm older cuz I didn't run so much.
• 59:46
  Like I said, I was senior in high school like, Joe, go take
• 59:49
  the 1314 kids and just figure it out.
• 59:52
  I'm like, huh, What? Like it was 4 by 1, right?
• 59:55
  So I took them. I was okay.
• 59:57
  You do this. You do that for them.
• 59:58
  And and then they came in second and they made the final.
• 1:00:00
  I was like, great. I was high fiving.
• 1:00:02
  Now mind you, I forgot I was there to run too.
• 1:00:05
  But I was so happy. And I remember that feeling of
• 1:00:08
  accomplishment. Like, yeah, not just for myself,
• 1:00:10
  but like I helped other people do something elaborately
• 1:00:13
  together and it was just the greatest feeling in the world.
• 1:00:16
  So that's where I got my start coaching back to Woodson and did
• 1:00:20
  that for a year. And then the very next year
• 1:00:22
  after that I was my first head coaching position was at Fairfax
• 1:00:25
  High School and it was. And then I took a 10 year break.
• 1:00:31
  Yeah. Okay.
• 1:00:33
  So my first question from that was going to be you after your
• 1:00:37
  first year at Woodson, you became a head coach.
• 1:00:39
  Like how? Meaning like you're not ready,
• 1:00:41
  you're not prepared. You're still thinking of
• 1:00:43
  coaching, but then you dropped that bombshell.
• 1:00:45
  Then you took a 10 year break. Yeah, yeah, I did.
• 1:00:48
  I took it. So.
• 1:00:49
  So I was asked to be the head coach at Fairfax High School
• 1:00:54
  because a friend of mine who knew the AD knew that they just
• 1:00:58
  lost her coach and they were in trouble like that.
• 1:01:00
  We need somebody. And we, Joe, we know you can do
• 1:01:02
  this. We know he comes like, no, no,
• 1:01:03
  no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:01:05
  And it's if you ever have that friend who's like they just keep
• 1:01:09
  like at it and you know they're a good person and they they're,
• 1:01:12
  you know you you really want to help but you're like, Nah.
• 1:01:14
  And finally I I gave in and said OK and and and had a blast.
• 1:01:18
  So that was my first team And those guys we still talk on on
• 1:01:22
  on social media and now then one of them unfortunately passed
• 1:01:25
  away. We're real sad about that but
• 1:01:28
  and we still kept keeping in touch and you know they so they
• 1:01:31
  like when there was like a bullet track and field post
• 1:01:33
  every now and then they'll jump on like Yep, he's still the same
• 1:01:36
  guy. I'm like, you know, quiet, you
• 1:01:39
  know, whatever, right. So, but we had fun.
• 1:01:43
  We enjoyed it. I mean I was in my early 20s
• 1:01:46
  doing that. But you know, we we never won.
• 1:01:48
  We didn't win our conference. We came in second both indoor
• 1:01:50
  and out during our conference. We lost by a single point in our
• 1:01:53
  conference, indoor and then we lost by three points outdoor.
• 1:01:56
  But we were in the game, we were in the mix.
• 1:01:59
  We were in the mix. And yeah, I just so those are
• 1:02:03
  some great times. But then because I'm all in the
• 1:02:06
  way that I am, I had to, I had to leave it because the career
• 1:02:11
  that I, I really, I dove into and chosen and where I'm still
• 1:02:14
  into this day was was a ministry at my church.
• 1:02:18
  So yeah, I became a youth pastor, right.
• 1:02:20
  So I said I cannot be tracked. I cannot be tracked and give to
• 1:02:23
  these kids at this church simultaneously.
• 1:02:26
  I got to choose one. So I chose my career path in in
• 1:02:29
  in in youth ministry, which was like the same thing.
• 1:02:31
  I can I can you know teach life lessons, you know act like a
• 1:02:35
  complete idiot and you know get paid for it.
• 1:02:38
  I was like okay sure. You know like you know we can
• 1:02:44
  water balloon fight which let's do that you know.
• 1:02:46
  And then just I just took some of those principles over from
• 1:02:51
  there and then I bought them into into the ministry world.
• 1:02:54
  So I did that for 10 years and I stayed away from track
• 1:02:57
  intentionally because I know like I I I cannot be divided.
• 1:03:00
  I I I I know myself. So if I'm in, I'm in, if I'm
• 1:03:04
  out, I'm out. So I had to literally walk away
• 1:03:06
  from it and be all the way out, which in turn made me all the
• 1:03:10
  way in on that side. So our youth group grew from
• 1:03:13
  like 30 kids to like 300 and now I got like a staff and all this
• 1:03:16
  other kind of stuff and and then it went from there.
• 1:03:18
  Believe it or not I had the largest youth ministry in the
• 1:03:20
  country. One point in time we had over
• 1:03:21
  3000 kids coming to our service was like literally like concert.
• 1:03:27
  Yeah, I was like literally it was, it was, it was very it kept
• 1:03:32
  me busy talking about 3000 kids, 3000 teenage urban kids and we
• 1:03:39
  had a lot of fun over the years and and I grew had a lot of
• 1:03:42
  relationships there. It's funny.
• 1:03:44
  You know every now and then I'll I'll, I'll see people who know
• 1:03:48
  me from one world or the other and you know, but so yeah, so
• 1:03:53
  that happened. But I came back after 10 years
• 1:03:56
  and then I coached that Riverdale Baptist out here in
• 1:03:59
  Maryland for a couple of years and then I I stopped doing that,
• 1:04:06
  stepped away for a year because I just didn't.
• 1:04:09
  It just wasn't the best fit for me.
• 1:04:11
  And then my assistant at the time was a bullish grad.
• 1:04:16
  He said you should try. You should check out bullish.
• 1:04:19
  And I'm like what's Bullis like what is that a a a new sandwich
• 1:04:26
  at you know Panera like what the heck.
• 1:04:29
  So he's like no it's my high school because Bullis is a very
• 1:04:35
  prestigious I'll say school and I I don't like the word elite or
• 1:04:40
  elitist. I think those are are are can
• 1:04:42
  have negative connotations around it but it's it's it's a
• 1:04:44
  very I put it this way that the school is very well sought after
• 1:04:50
  both locally nationally and internationally.
• 1:04:53
  So but it's they don't advertise and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:04:56
  There are other schools similar to that in our school consortium
• 1:04:59
  like Sidwell Friends where the Obamas win and you know there's
• 1:05:03
  like Georgetown Day. There are a lot of like these
• 1:05:06
  schools and. And we.
• 1:05:07
  I didn't hear about them because you just didn't.
• 1:05:09
  If you don't know, you don't know like versus this phrase
• 1:05:11
  like if you know, you know. So I didn't know.
• 1:05:14
  So when he sent me there, I came in, I looked at this 102 acre
• 1:05:17
  campus where they're doing different things and there's
• 1:05:20
  there there's an intentionality about diversity.
• 1:05:22
  Like and you know, they're they're preparing these kids to
• 1:05:28
  be 21st century leaders. I said, yeah, I'm in as long as
• 1:05:34
  you get people like me and who look like me an opportunity like
• 1:05:37
  this. And it's like, no, not only that
• 1:05:40
  that's not just an agenda. It's a priority to make sure
• 1:05:44
  that diversity and inclusion is a part of our campus.
• 1:05:47
  And so that was 10 years ago. And, you know, here I am.
• 1:05:52
  So As for the, for the last part of of our talk today, I want to
• 1:05:57
  really focus in under on bullis. You know you had some
• 1:06:01
  experiences coaching and and pretty varied experiences from
• 1:06:06
  assistant coach to head coaching and different things like that.
• 1:06:09
  But now at Bullis for 10 years, you you've built, and I don't
• 1:06:13
  like using that term built because that means like it's
• 1:06:15
  done, It's over. You are building, you continue
• 1:06:17
  to build. Like a real program, like a very
• 1:06:22
  diverse program of of athletes and highlevel athletes.
• 1:06:26
  Talk to me about over 10 years, what did you when you started at
• 1:06:31
  Bullis, what was the goals then and how did you continue to not
• 1:06:40
  change but evolve those goals as the program started hitting your
• 1:06:44
  former goals. So when I first got here because
• 1:06:50
  also I, I, I, I, I coached summer track too for a little
• 1:06:53
  bit. I coached at Glen Arm track club
• 1:06:55
  which has a a huge reputation of doing great things at at the
• 1:06:59
  youth level. And so shout out to all them and
• 1:07:02
  you know who who gave me the opportunity to do that?
• 1:07:04
  Coach Colbert, Coach Henry. And a lot of them just were
• 1:07:06
  really kind to give me an opportunity.
• 1:07:10
  So that's why I was fine. I didn't have the coaching.
• 1:07:11
  I was like, I'm good, you know. So when the Bullets opportunity
• 1:07:13
  came up I, I, I I talked to the AD and I talked to the head of
• 1:07:17
  school at the time and I said OKI.
• 1:07:21
  They were looking for to rise the track to a level of of
• 1:07:26
  respect and dare I say prominence like so many other
• 1:07:29
  sports are. And I said OKI can do that if
• 1:07:32
  you make. I just need to make sure we're
• 1:07:33
  support that you support the endeavor like don't just talk it
• 1:07:38
  don't talk about it be about it right and and they said they
• 1:07:42
  would and and and they were true to their game.
• 1:07:44
  I I told him I said if you do this if you do this the right
• 1:07:46
  way bring the right people in here because I just don't want
• 1:07:48
  fast people. I want people have a good
• 1:07:49
  character and who are good students but give them a chance
• 1:07:55
  then we'll win. I'll win your your first
• 1:07:57
  national championship in five years.
• 1:07:59
  We won our first and four but that wasn't the the initial goal
• 1:08:06
  because when I got here so at Bullets you have to so we have
• 1:08:11
  we going trimesters, right. So you got fall, winter, spring
• 1:08:13
  trimester. You have to do 2 activities
• 1:08:17
  within the three trimesters. So let's see if you play
• 1:08:20
  basketball you got to do one more, play football you got to
• 1:08:22
  do one more if you can. If you do theater tech, you got
• 1:08:24
  to do one more, right. So spring track which is when I
• 1:08:30
  got hired in the spring of 2013 was the the default that that's
• 1:08:36
  the the get over credit and and and meaning kids would come and
• 1:08:41
  just sign up for track and just roll out and just go play
• 1:08:43
  basketball right right or or go you know you know you know hang
• 1:08:48
  out you know at the you know. It was the underwater basket
• 1:08:51
  weaving, exactly. Of the two activities I have to
• 1:08:54
  do, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we, we were, we were always
• 1:08:57
  last in our conference on both boys and girls, and our
• 1:09:00
  conference wasn't necessarily a powerhouse.
• 1:09:02
  I mean, we were like the, you know, prep school, you know,
• 1:09:06
  vision, you know, kind of deal. So when I got here, I remember
• 1:09:09
  this. I remember telling everyone
• 1:09:12
  okay. Well, hey, listen, I know the
• 1:09:13
  expectations are low. It's kind of like with these
• 1:09:15
  movies you'd see, you know, I don't know what Coach Carter or,
• 1:09:20
  you know, remember the Titans? I was thinking, remember the
• 1:09:22
  Titans, what I was thinking? Yeah, exactly so, so I would be
• 1:09:25
  Coach Boone. And I said there, you know,
• 1:09:26
  we're going to, we're going to win.
• 1:09:28
  And they're like, coach, we've never won anything.
• 1:09:32
  Like we're always last in the conference.
• 1:09:33
  I said, well then I need you to prepare for a change.
• 1:09:38
  So they, they laughed at me. So within 12 months we won our
• 1:09:45
  first conference title and then they stopped laughing and I
• 1:09:49
  remember calling the AD on the phone after we won.
• 1:09:51
  I said, hey, I just want you to know we won conference.
• 1:09:54
  He's like you did. I'm like, yes, we won our
• 1:09:58
  conference. He's like the whole thing.
• 1:10:01
  Like he's like thinking. Like like like what event right
• 1:10:03
  exactly. The whole thing.
• 1:10:05
  The whole thing, right. I remember telling him that but
• 1:10:08
  it was, it was, it was some growing pains in between one
• 1:10:10
  time. One of my funny stories and and
• 1:10:12
  she wanted being a great runner for me was young lady.
• 1:10:14
  Her name was Brianna. And again when I got there I'm
• 1:10:16
  giving the whole speech about you know we're going to do
• 1:10:19
  things different. We're going to make a
• 1:10:20
  championship program or a winning team.
• 1:10:23
  She's in line to do drills eating gummy bears.
• 1:10:28
  It's like eating like literally like, you know, I'm like, okay
• 1:10:31
  guys, she's what we're going to do.
• 1:10:32
  She's like, you know, I'm like, excuse me, I walked over, I
• 1:10:36
  grabbed the gummy bears and I tossed them across the fence and
• 1:10:41
  everybody was. Like, yeah, that'll set you up
• 1:10:44
  straight. It's crazy what's going on.
• 1:10:49
  And and she know I was serious and they knew because I had to
• 1:10:52
  let them like, look, the old standard is no longer the
• 1:10:55
  standard. We can create a new one, but
• 1:10:59
  it's gotta be a we. It can't be a me.
• 1:11:01
  And we can do whatever we want if we just fully commit.
• 1:11:06
  So we change the standard and every year we continue to do
• 1:11:11
  that. When you're working through
• 1:11:13
  changing the standard, you know there's two.
• 1:11:17
  Parallel ways that that two parallel things that have to
• 1:11:20
  change and I'm probably missing like there's probably three or
• 1:11:21
  four of them, but two that come to mind.
• 1:11:23
  One is the coaching education side.
• 1:11:25
  So how are you actually coaching the kids, what reps and you
• 1:11:28
  know, speed base versus repeat base, whatever, etcetera,
• 1:11:31
  etcetera. And there's also the
• 1:11:32
  organizational leadership side. What were you doing?
• 1:11:36
  What have you done? How have you evolved over these
• 1:11:38
  ten years in those two fronts? And when I'm even on the
• 1:11:41
  coaching side, like any, I always break coaching education
• 1:11:44
  into two things, formal and informal.
• 1:11:46
  Both are equally important, Formal being USATF level ones
• 1:11:50
  and twos, USTFCCCA Altus, those kind of things.
• 1:11:54
  And then informal being talking to my peer group calling a Vince
• 1:11:58
  Anderson. Hey Vince, you're the king of
• 1:11:59
  acceleration. Teach me those kind of things.
• 1:12:02
  What were you doing? How are you evolving over these
• 1:12:04
  ten years? It definitely was the latter.
• 1:12:10
  I laughed when you said USATC. I'm like, do I need to be a
• 1:12:13
  member of that or something? Cuz you know, of all the things
• 1:12:17
  that have happened, all the awards and stuff, they've never
• 1:12:19
  ever, I've never won Maryland Coach of the Year.
• 1:12:21
  I just I'm like did I like, upset somebody?
• 1:12:24
  It's funny to me, but maybe you got to be a member of that.
• 1:12:26
  But I'm not and I I don't like do those things.
• 1:12:28
  Well, like, hey, I don't want to be a part of this.
• 1:12:30
  Like I just want to. I want to coach and I want to
• 1:12:32
  help people like and and when I have people, I don't just mean
• 1:12:36
  people on my team like anybody. People call me for help all the
• 1:12:38
  time. Coach, can you help me with
• 1:12:39
  this? Can you help with that?
• 1:12:40
  There was a young lady who I just met and she was having
• 1:12:42
  trouble getting on her. She wanted to be a walk on in
• 1:12:45
  college. And I met her at the track last
• 1:12:47
  week when she was training with some friends of mine.
• 1:12:50
  And I made a phone call to her head coach or to the head coach
• 1:12:53
  at that school and said, hey, can you do this for this young
• 1:12:56
  lady? And she's not a bullish kid and
• 1:12:57
  I, but she was a great young lady who just wanted a chance
• 1:13:01
  and they're giving her a chance. So I like doing that kind of
• 1:13:04
  stuff because it's the right thing to do.
• 1:13:07
  If I have something that can help you and I keep it to myself
• 1:13:10
  because you're not a part of my thing, then then then again
• 1:13:14
  you're missing an opportunity to make the world a better place.
• 1:13:17
  Because if I can help you and you get there and then maybe you
• 1:13:21
  can help somebody else or help 10 people, help 100 people and
• 1:13:23
  you, you've now changed the world in your circle of
• 1:13:26
  influence. Who knows how to come back to
• 1:13:28
  mine, you know. So anyway I'm definitely the on
• 1:13:33
  the side, Mike of of just that whole, you know, getting with
• 1:13:39
  your mentors and teaching. I'm I'm, I'm a question asker,
• 1:13:42
  you know, So probably because I couldn't do it when I was
• 1:13:44
  watching my vs VHS tapes. Yeah, like now I can say, hey,
• 1:13:48
  listen, why did you do it that way?
• 1:13:50
  Or what were you thinking when it happened that way?
• 1:13:53
  And so I haven't had, you know, a lot of the coaching education
• 1:13:56
  from that side of it. Quite frankly, I struggle
• 1:14:00
  sitting in classrooms for like hours and hours.
• 1:14:02
  Like, this is dope for me because we can just chop it up.
• 1:14:05
  But if, if if I had to watch a video, like, I don't know even
• 1:14:08
  how people are watching this right now, they might be bored
• 1:14:10
  to tears. So I'm sorry if you are, I can
• 1:14:13
  definitely tell some jokes that would probably liven at the
• 1:14:17
  place. But then again you may get some
• 1:14:18
  dislikes on the little clicker button there.
• 1:14:21
  But no, I mean I, I, I, I believe in that wholeheartedly.
• 1:14:25
  Not that the the other side doesn't work, but I'm very
• 1:14:28
  practical because like I need to know like how does that work in
• 1:14:31
  real life. But we're looking at like all
• 1:14:34
  right the the acceleration zones in in in in relays.
• 1:14:37
  You know you know don't just tell me or here's what the
• 1:14:40
  exchange owners, here's what the acceleration is.
• 1:14:41
  It's all 30 meters now but here's where it is and here's
• 1:14:44
  what you do. Great that that's that's
• 1:14:47
  information I need application. Because if the application
• 1:14:51
  doesn't work, the information is essentially useless and I can't
• 1:14:56
  ask a question to a book or to A to a prerecorded experience.
• 1:15:02
  So I'm all about to. I'll ask anybody anywhere,
• 1:15:04
  anything. Yeah, I like that.
• 1:15:07
  I'm kind of thinking of kind of an example.
• 1:15:09
  I do believe. I believe in both.
• 1:15:11
  Like I said, I said equally or sure, yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:13
  Yeah. And I'm a product of the USATF
• 1:15:16
  coach in education level ones and level twos.
• 1:15:20
  And I think there is a, a real value in people learning the
• 1:15:23
  acceleration zone as it is in the rules and best practices.
• 1:15:26
  But when you said the application and I remember that
• 1:15:29
  1165, a girl you told me about, I'm like, Oh yeah, well, okay,
• 1:15:32
  that's fine. If you know that it's a 30 meter
• 1:15:34
  zone and you know you want to hand out the stick in the
• 1:15:36
  middle, whatever, blah, blah, blah, and right hand, left hand,
• 1:15:38
  all that kind of stuff. Okay.
• 1:15:40
  Let's get real here though. In high school, how do I take my
• 1:15:43
  12/2 kid who's going to hand off to my 11/6 kid who's going to
• 1:15:46
  hand off to my 12 flat kid like that's?
• 1:15:49
  That's not just in the book of like, you know, it's going to
• 1:15:51
  happen here. It's like, Oh no, this kid's way
• 1:15:52
  better than this kid. But I've still got to make it
• 1:15:54
  happen in a relay setting. That's the chopping of having a
• 1:15:57
  conversation with someone, Hey, how have you done this in the
• 1:16:00
  past? How would you suggest, you know,
• 1:16:02
  here's my scenario, What would you do?
• 1:16:04
  And then you get to process it, go back, try it, fail, try it,
• 1:16:09
  pass, etcetera. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:11
  That's that's interesting. It's problem solving, right?
• 1:16:13
  Yeah. And and and.
• 1:16:15
  Just like in school. Like if I'm stuck, I could be a
• 1:16:17
  great math student, but there's one that's got me stuck.
• 1:16:21
  So if I can't ask my professor or my teacher, then, then, then
• 1:16:26
  I'm going to stay stuck. And I'm just saying we don't
• 1:16:30
  have to stay stuck nowadays, especially with, you know,
• 1:16:32
  social media and things like just reach out to people.
• 1:16:34
  I have coaches who reach out to me.
• 1:16:37
  I don't say all the time, but less than I.
• 1:16:41
  Most coaches who reach out to me are, you know, not from the
• 1:16:44
  other, from like other parts of the country or you know, even,
• 1:16:47
  you know, sometimes internationally, you know, I'm
• 1:16:49
  like and people like I didn't think you'd answer like why
• 1:16:51
  wouldn't I? Somebody answered for me, right.
• 1:16:54
  And so I've had coaches every now and then who who've done
• 1:16:56
  this is like I just set up some time and just pick your brain.
• 1:16:58
  I'm like sure because I I picked up from somewhere else somebody
• 1:17:01
  else and and they helped me. So I just believe that again
• 1:17:04
  when we're more collaborative in nature I think the sport is
• 1:17:06
  better. I think again you know I'm big
• 1:17:09
  on you know, us being better as people and society and all that
• 1:17:12
  kind of stuff. But yeah, that that's, I think
• 1:17:15
  that's the way that I've grown in the sport and and I think you
• 1:17:19
  you asked another part of your question earlier, it was about
• 1:17:23
  my coaching. So coach coaching education and
• 1:17:27
  then leadership operationally, how you run a successful.
• 1:17:31
  Yeah. Collaborative all day long.
• 1:17:35
  All day long. I I'm not the smartest guy in
• 1:17:37
  the room. I I'm not the smartest guy in
• 1:17:40
  the room and and if you're if you're ever it's my opinion of
• 1:17:44
  philosophy if you're ever if you ever have to be the smartest guy
• 1:17:47
  in the room. You need to get into a new room
• 1:17:52
  because I I don't your your expertise doesn't have to be
• 1:17:58
  mine it doesn't diminish who I am because you shine and who you
• 1:18:03
  are like I'd love to you know learn from you I want to I want
• 1:18:07
  to you know after we're done with this let's let's let's talk
• 1:18:09
  with chocolate let's talk life. I said I want to, I want to, I
• 1:18:11
  want to know what you know. And here's the beauty about it.
• 1:18:15
  I'll never know it as well as you and that's okay.
• 1:18:19
  But I'm better because I've known you and if it's in a
• 1:18:23
  situation to where you're an expert on the subject matter, I
• 1:18:27
  want you in the room because I can't speak to it as well as
• 1:18:30
  Mike Will. Mike C has got it on lock and I
• 1:18:33
  want him in the room so that I can just sit back and say talk
• 1:18:37
  to this guy, talk to this lady. We have 9 coaches on our staff
• 1:18:41
  at Bullets and three professionals.
• 1:18:43
  We have 9 coaches, two doctors and one on operations manager.
• 1:18:46
  So our staff of what is that? Sam Bad and Matt 12 and and
• 1:18:53
  every one of them does something better than I do.
• 1:18:55
  Every single one of them. Every single one of them.
• 1:18:59
  And I defer often and we collaborate often when they're
• 1:19:03
  difficult decisions to make. Do I, do I have to be the final
• 1:19:06
  decision maker? Well, most times, yeah.
• 1:19:08
  Or sometimes I will defer. A lot of people only realize
• 1:19:10
  that, like when why did Coach Lee do the why did Coach who do
• 1:19:12
  that? Coach didn't do it.
• 1:19:13
  Or you know Coach Derek may have said it or Coach Dave may have
• 1:19:15
  said it or whatever the case may be because I'm not intimidated
• 1:19:18
  by other people's success or there are other people's genius.
• 1:19:24
  I want you in the room. So I'm very collaborative in
• 1:19:28
  nature and and I will always be and and that's why I just
• 1:19:32
  believe that the the difference in bullets is that and you may
• 1:19:35
  you may not see me some people don't even know that I'm the
• 1:19:38
  head coach. I'm fine with that.
• 1:19:40
  I don't need that to be known. I I want our team to shine.
• 1:19:42
  I want like if we're really about team, if you're really
• 1:19:46
  about like what's best for for, for the success of the the
• 1:19:50
  greater whole, then it can't be about me or what I want or what
• 1:19:55
  I think only. I mean my, my, my, my, my
• 1:19:59
  opinion has to share wholesome validity, of course, because I
• 1:20:03
  have this role. But if it's just my way to
• 1:20:06
  highway, first of all, I wouldn't have 12 people on my
• 1:20:08
  staff if people were like that. And if I did, I've told people,
• 1:20:11
  my staff, they'd be a bunch of yes men and Yes women and we
• 1:20:14
  wouldn't be very good anyway, because they would not.
• 1:20:17
  They would withhold. Their expertise and their gifts.
• 1:20:22
  You don't want to do that when you work with people because
• 1:20:24
  everybody has something in them to contribute of value.
• 1:20:27
  I just believe that. So as we wrap up here, Joe, you
• 1:20:34
  gotta do some. We have to do this again cuz.
• 1:20:35
  I know, I know. I was thinking I was.
• 1:20:36
  There's so much more to talk about.
• 1:20:38
  I knew as I watched you for 20 minutes mess with your
• 1:20:41
  background. If you are listening right now
• 1:20:43
  you have to at least go pop on to YouTube just to see his
• 1:20:45
  background. Cuz let me tell you it has moved
• 1:20:47
  100 times before we actually record.
• 1:20:50
  But I'm curious. We had Carol.
• 1:20:53
  Johnson from Johnson C Smith and now I'm now I'm second guessing
• 1:20:57
  myself maybe was Carol Smith. I'm getting all mixed up.
• 1:20:58
  She's the head coach at Johnson C Smith University now.
• 1:21:01
  She was a high school coach before that and coached Anna
• 1:21:04
  Cockrel and and it's amazing. You know, I talked to coaches,
• 1:21:07
  that's my whole jam is to talk to coaches all day.
• 1:21:10
  And like I said, it's all your fault, all the high school
• 1:21:12
  coaches fault. You guys are, and guys are
• 1:21:13
  coaching phenomenal, phenomenal athletes and every once in a
• 1:21:17
  while, if we're if we're lucky, we coach.
• 1:21:20
  Just someone who's on the next level, someone who actually will
• 1:21:22
  go to the Olympics like Anna and things like that, and it's
• 1:21:24
  different. Well, I assume it's different.
• 1:21:27
  I never got to coach that kid, so it's different.
• 1:21:30
  You're currently coaching a young man who's going into a
• 1:21:33
  sophomore year, so this is a precocious 15 year old kid.
• 1:21:38
  His times are manly. He is a kid.
• 1:21:41
  I'm wondering, you know, you've coached a lot of great kids.
• 1:21:44
  This one seems to be just a little bit more special and I
• 1:21:48
  hate. I hate talking about him because
• 1:21:50
  he is a 9th grader, 10th grader, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:21:52
  Like, like there's many plenty of kids that we talked about as
• 1:21:54
  sophomore or as a freshman sophomore in high school that we
• 1:21:56
  never talk about in College in in the next level.
• 1:21:58
  Because again, it's just so hard to do those next levels.
• 1:22:04
  What's it like working with someone who is special?
• 1:22:09
  You know God has given them an ability that less than 1% in
• 1:22:13
  this world has. What are some of the things that
• 1:22:15
  you have to do differently than you did with the thousands of
• 1:22:20
  other kids that you've coached at this point?
• 1:22:25
  That's a really good question. I don't think it's something I
• 1:22:28
  have to do differently. I just think it's something I
• 1:22:31
  just need to be consciously aware of.
• 1:22:34
  It just keeps me on my game. So the kids you're talking
• 1:22:37
  about, his name's Quincy Wilson, and he came in as a very touted
• 1:22:46
  young man in the sport, broke OB Moore's record in the 400, that
• 1:22:51
  alone says. A lot.
• 1:22:52
  Right there, right. Exactly.
• 1:22:53
  So he he wanted running like 47, five as an eighth grader, right.
• 1:22:57
  Which is ridiculous. I know.
• 1:22:58
  Right. So sweater and as a scene, so.
• 1:23:04
  That's true. With didn't hear that exactly.
• 1:23:06
  Like stop it like just just makes you sick.
• 1:23:09
  I'm like you're just just a little Rascal you're not even
• 1:23:12
  shaving yet His voice ain't even changing.
• 1:23:17
  But but I love him, man. I love him and not because of
• 1:23:20
  what he does. I love him because of who he is.
• 1:23:22
  I love all our kids and that's why we people talk the family
• 1:23:26
  kind of something like we really legit do that stuff.
• 1:23:29
  There are times where we'll stop practice if if if somebody's if
• 1:23:31
  there's a if there's this going on and we can't work it out, All
• 1:23:35
  right, stop. Let's go down to the athletic
• 1:23:38
  center in the classroom and we're going, we're going to
• 1:23:40
  teach on this. So we're going to talk through
• 1:23:42
  this so that we can all make it better because training
• 1:23:44
  environments in particular for adolescents.
• 1:23:47
  But I think it's all the way to the pro levels.
• 1:23:48
  I was talking to a pro athlete yesterday about training
• 1:23:53
  environment and you're just saying just just it's not right.
• 1:23:57
  I'm not feeling this feeling that.
• 1:23:58
  So you you you want to make sure that your training environment
• 1:24:02
  is is something that you're healthy or you're happy with so
• 1:24:04
  that you can it will produce the anticipator to desire results.
• 1:24:09
  So with Quincy that young man talked about when he came here I
• 1:24:15
  wasn't like oh we got to change all these things right now
• 1:24:16
  because we got this 47 kid coming at No.
• 1:24:18
  Like let's let's just make sure that I I had to make sure that
• 1:24:21
  we are who we are. But also I'm who I am from the
• 1:24:26
  the teaching perspective and making sure that it is.
• 1:24:29
  Quite frankly I'm on my game because you come in like all
• 1:24:31
  right well I don't want to mess this up but then when he gets to
• 1:24:34
  you like, well you know he's just like anybody else.
• 1:24:36
  He's just he just has more of this.
• 1:24:39
  But everybody has more of a this, you know, I I can pick
• 1:24:42
  another kid on the team who's you know more you know into
• 1:24:47
  science. They're more into you know, you
• 1:24:50
  know family or more into whatever the case is that
• 1:24:53
  everybody has a superpower. That's what I tell them all.
• 1:24:55
  And if your superpower does it line up with being you know the
• 1:24:59
  track you know US #1 this world that that's okay.
• 1:25:02
  Let's not make I think we do a disservice to kids and adults
• 1:25:07
  when we focus on their superpower as being the thing
• 1:25:10
  that most gives them their value, not the Super about the
• 1:25:13
  thing that we these. Are identity.
• 1:25:15
  Exactly. Or we hold it in this team.
• 1:25:17
  So like athletes like, hey, if you're a great athlete now
• 1:25:20
  you're a great person. That's No, you're not.
• 1:25:23
  No. You could just jump high and run
• 1:25:24
  fast and and and and swing the back.
• 1:25:28
  Doesn't mean you're a great person.
• 1:25:30
  The great person thing is really the thing that's most important.
• 1:25:32
  So with Quincy, he is a great person.
• 1:25:35
  And I don't say that just because I'm his coach.
• 1:25:38
  I say that because it's the truth.
• 1:25:41
  His parents have instilled in him a a.
• 1:25:45
  A humility, but also a drive, a respect, but also a a hunger
• 1:25:54
  that quite frankly, I it's very rare to see.
• 1:25:59
  Like, I think that's a superpower people think about
• 1:26:00
  people say how fast he is now, like what's on the inside of him
• 1:26:05
  in terms of that humble but hungry mindset or that mantra
• 1:26:10
  that we have at Bullis overall that he didn't even realize we
• 1:26:12
  had. When I see that out of him, it
• 1:26:15
  inspires me. And I'm like, you're not going
• 1:26:17
  to outwork me, young fella, because I'm going to work hard,
• 1:26:19
  not on the track. But I do tell the kids I got one
• 1:26:24
  more race left in me and I'll be I I I feel sorry for whoever
• 1:26:28
  gets it. Famous last words, right?
• 1:26:30
  I got one more of me, I got one more of me.
• 1:26:32
  And whoever gets it is going to get everything I got.
• 1:26:34
  When you see Jolie limping around at the track meet, you
• 1:26:37
  know he gave that one race because the hamstring blew out.
• 1:26:40
  I guarantee it. You were being, you were being
• 1:26:43
  very kind because I was going to say, and then I will die.
• 1:26:46
  Yeah, exactly. Just drop.
• 1:26:47
  I'm done. I just did.
• 1:26:48
  That's it. I'm done.
• 1:26:50
  I'm curious. With the, you know, it's it's
• 1:26:52
  one thing is as a kid develops, you know if a kid comes into
• 1:26:55
  your program as a 52 second quarter miler and leaves as a,
• 1:26:58
  you know, develops through and leaves as leaves as a senior in
• 1:27:01
  high school, as a a 4746 or even a 45, that's amazing.
• 1:27:05
  The recruiting doesn't happen in freshman year then because
• 1:27:08
  they're running 52. You know those kind of things.
• 1:27:10
  Have you seen like it's it's kind of a, I must say it's a
• 1:27:15
  joke actually. It's kind of a joke on the
• 1:27:18
  college level. When a coach goes from D2 mid
• 1:27:22
  major and gets their power five job or Division One job, all of
• 1:27:26
  a sudden they know everything. And I'm not talking about the
• 1:27:29
  coach says he knows everything. Like, oh, they're getting
• 1:27:30
  invited to speak at clinics and coaches are asking their
• 1:27:33
  opinions. It's like, you know that you
• 1:27:34
  know, when I was at small school you last year, the same person,
• 1:27:37
  like same knowledge. But now that I'm at big school
• 1:27:39
  you, I know everything. I wonder if you've seen that
• 1:27:42
  you've got a great personality that I can see where college
• 1:27:45
  coaches were, whether you have a kid to be recruited or not,
• 1:27:47
  would would kind of like to, you know, talk and just.
• 1:27:49
  To hang out because again, your personality.
• 1:27:51
  But I'm wondering if have you seen, are you more popular now
• 1:27:57
  today because of Quincy, Like our coaches, like.
• 1:27:59
  Hey, Cole, man, how you doing? You're doing such a great job
• 1:28:01
  over there. Oh, yeah, Quincy.
• 1:28:03
  Oh, yeah, I got all about them, you know, You know what I'm
• 1:28:06
  saying? Like, are you more popular now?
• 1:28:08
  Fake. Fake.
• 1:28:08
  Popular because of this, I don't know.
• 1:28:12
  Our program had a lot of success before you came here, and I
• 1:28:16
  think that's one of the things that intrigued them.
• 1:28:17
  And, and I think so. So let me say this, Quincy came
• 1:28:21
  from, he originally was from up here, from the DMV.
• 1:28:25
  Then he moved down, his family moved down to Virginia Beach.
• 1:28:28
  So he's from, he lived most of his adolescent years or his
• 1:28:31
  youth years in in Virginia Beach.
• 1:28:35
  They made a decision to move back up here to come to Bullis.
• 1:28:39
  And that's probably one of the most humbling things that I
• 1:28:44
  could ever have said about me or about us.
• 1:28:48
  And and we did not recruit Quincy.
• 1:28:50
  And I'm giving you straight facts.
• 1:28:52
  I don't care who says what they're they're they're wrong.
• 1:28:55
  Here's how it happened. We were at a meet in Virginia
• 1:28:59
  Beach and his mother and his father who are some of the most
• 1:29:01
  high honor integrity people you can meet.
• 1:29:04
  My dad is retired Navy and and you know all that I'm talking
• 1:29:08
  about like up there ranks high Navy you know did some stuff
• 1:29:13
  that he can't tell us to talk about you know not bad stuff.
• 1:29:15
  He just he just had very lot of responsibility.
• 1:29:17
  So military military doesn't give you responsibility unless
• 1:29:20
  you're you have high integrity and character.
• 1:29:22
  So yeah. So we're we're at a meet it's
• 1:29:27
  down in Virginia Beach and I'm sitting down and watching the
• 1:29:29
  race and this lady says to me excuse me are you the coach of
• 1:29:31
  Bullis. I'm like it depends on who's
• 1:29:35
  asking, you know. That's my line.
• 1:29:36
  It's like, it depends. Is that a good thing or a bad
• 1:29:39
  thing? Right, exactly.
• 1:29:40
  So do I have your money? So the so I say, yeah, of
• 1:29:46
  course. And she says okay, I'm she
• 1:29:49
  starts asking me questions. I'm just answering questions.
• 1:29:51
  And she says, well, I'm looking at that as bullets is a
• 1:29:55
  possibility for my son. I'm like, who's your son?
• 1:29:59
  She's like, she points over to him and he's like a couple, like
• 1:30:02
  rows down. It's like Quincy.
• 1:30:03
  I was like, oh, OK like, stop playing.
• 1:30:07
  Yeah, right. Yeah.
• 1:30:08
  Haha. Got me.
• 1:30:09
  I'm like, who's making you play this joke on me?
• 1:30:11
  Because I play jokes on people all the time, especially with my
• 1:30:13
  kids on the track team. Play them and we love joking and
• 1:30:16
  and like, who? Who?
• 1:30:17
  You almost got me. You know, like, no, we're
• 1:30:19
  serious. We'd like to talk to you more
• 1:30:22
  about it. So I'm like, OK, but it wasn't
• 1:30:25
  like a Oh yeah, we got to change everything now.
• 1:30:26
  Quincy wasn't was like, OK, let's have a conversation.
• 1:30:29
  Because remember what I said before, like, you know, setting
• 1:30:33
  the standard. Like the standard had already
• 1:30:35
  been set by kids like, you know, Eric Ashton Allen and and Austin
• 1:30:40
  Allen. Ryan Willey who he just he's a
• 1:30:44
  pro. He just signed a pro contract
• 1:30:46
  from Florida. He's a bullet kid.
• 1:30:48
  My side Russell just signed a contract or is about to sign her
• 1:30:51
  contract. She's pro.
• 1:30:52
  She's the NCAA record holder at Kentucky.
• 1:30:55
  Leah Phillips is that LSU? So, like we've had kids for over
• 1:30:58
  the years who kind of established the the culture on
• 1:31:02
  our team and the culture on our team is this.
• 1:31:04
  Like we're going to like we're going to give our everything and
• 1:31:09
  we're going to make sure that we don't cheat ourselves or the
• 1:31:13
  sport or our teammates in the process.
• 1:31:16
  We we don't do anything halfway here.
• 1:31:18
  We we just won't, won't do it. And there are others too.
• 1:31:21
  I didn't mean to name them. I mean you, Lauren Harris,
• 1:31:23
  Sierra Leonard, Shania Hall, and you name it Andre Turret.
• 1:31:28
  So. So it was.
• 1:31:28
  It was already here. But what what I was humbled by
• 1:31:32
  Mike is the fact that they watched us from afar and they
• 1:31:36
  like what they saw because they understood what they had on
• 1:31:39
  their hands. He broke OB Moore's record.
• 1:31:41
  Don't send them just anywhere. And they chose us.
• 1:31:45
  We didn't choose him. They chose us.
• 1:31:47
  And so now when I'm when I'm coaching him, the pressure's
• 1:31:52
  off, right? Because I don't have to like sit
• 1:31:54
  in your living room and promise you this and promise that.
• 1:31:56
  I don't promise him anything. I promise that I'm going to be
• 1:31:58
  honest. I'm always going to be honest
• 1:32:00
  with you and it's not going to be easy.
• 1:32:03
  But if you can handle those two things, you will have success.
• 1:32:06
  Where the success is making the U20 team, which he did make, but
• 1:32:10
  he was just too young to run. But I think it's hilarious.
• 1:32:14
  It's hilarious. Or if success is is like Ryan
• 1:32:20
  Bigelow who just graduated and she's going premed at John
• 1:32:23
  Hopkins, that's success. And you you would not know Brian
• 1:32:29
  Bigelow's name if you if you know she she wasn't one of our
• 1:32:32
  fastest, she was on our four by 4A or B team.
• 1:32:35
  But she's the sweetest kid in the world, and she wanted the
• 1:32:38
  enjoyment of being a part of something special and because
• 1:32:41
  she likes track and using it as an opportunity to teach her and
• 1:32:46
  to take her to the place where she has a superpower.
• 1:32:49
  And that is in the sciences, which I love just as much as the
• 1:32:53
  track. I love it, Jolie.
• 1:32:56
  We're up against time. Dear listener, we're up against
• 1:33:00
  time. I have an idea that I'm going to
• 1:33:02
  kick with Jolie. Later, I got an idea for you, my
• 1:33:05
  friend, but we're going to wrap it up today.
• 1:33:08
  Thank you so much, man. You know, we've been back and
• 1:33:11
  forth trying to get the schedule.
• 1:33:11
  You're busy schedule, my busy schedule.
• 1:33:14
  I'm so pumped for a million reasons that we actually got
• 1:33:17
  this done. I got again, shout out Coach Q
• 1:33:19
  for connecting us, man. You were, you were right.
• 1:33:21
  You said that you were good, dude.
• 1:33:23
  And you know he says that I'm going to believe it.
• 1:33:25
  And he was. He was downplaying it.
• 1:33:27
  You're great, dude, man, I'm so, so proud of what you've done up
• 1:33:30
  to this point in your career. I mean it like, you know, for
• 1:33:33
  someone, a man of faith in myself, I love when someone
• 1:33:36
  pivots and says, yeah, I became a youth pastor.
• 1:33:37
  It's like, oh man, as much as I love track, that is a bigger
• 1:33:40
  calling. So I love that for you and your
• 1:33:43
  journey. And I love what you're doing at
• 1:33:45
  bullis. And I think what's going to be
• 1:33:47
  really fun, you know, to use a 400 meter analogy here, Joe.
• 1:33:50
  And I know at your age and stage you may think like, oh, you
• 1:33:53
  know, I'm winding down, only got maybe 10 or 15.
• 1:33:55
  My friend, you are barely at the 200 meter mark of 1/4 mile.
• 1:33:59
  I know it seems like, no, I'm having a coaching for a long
• 1:34:01
  time. You're right, you have you still
• 1:34:03
  have a long part of your race to go, many, many years, decades to
• 1:34:08
  coach and influence young people that you've done so far.
• 1:34:11
  And I'm here for it, man. I can't wait.
• 1:34:13
  It's 2023. I can't wait to relisten to this
• 1:34:15
  in 2033 and do an update, A10 year update of what you're doing
• 1:34:18
  because it's going to be fantastic and I'm so excited for
• 1:34:21
  it. I'm so excited for you and the
• 1:34:22
  kids that you get to positively impact.
• 1:34:25
  Well thanks Mike. I appreciate it man.
• 1:34:27
  And thanks for what you're doing in our sport.
• 1:34:29
  I, I I've listened to the podcast.
• 1:34:31
  I love it. I love what you're doing.
• 1:34:33
  I love the fact that you know we can just go somewhere and just
• 1:34:36
  just have conversation and you know we can we can learn, we can
• 1:34:40
  you know grow, but we also have some fun and and it's it's what
• 1:34:44
  the sport needs, man. So I I'm really appreciative of
• 1:34:46
  what you're doing and you keep doing it 275 episodes later.
• 1:34:52
  Soon, I love it, you know, dear listener, Earlier he said about
• 1:34:56
  connecting with other coaches. And sometimes people don't reach
• 1:34:59
  out to him and sometimes other coaches have a hard time
• 1:35:02
  reaching out to others. That is one of the many goals,
• 1:35:04
  if you will, that we had with this podcast.
• 1:35:06
  It's very specific why we named this the connections.
• 1:35:09
  Podcast, I hope. I hope today you got to know
• 1:35:12
  Jolie better. I hope you feel emboldened and
• 1:35:16
  powered to reach out to him. Vice versa, he certainly is
• 1:35:19
  emboldened to reach out to you if he would like to talk to you,
• 1:35:22
  and I know he does. I just love that you know this.
• 1:35:24
  It's one of the real special parts about our sport, of our
• 1:35:26
  other sports, I believe, is that we are a much more connected
• 1:35:29
  community than than any other sport coach out there.
• 1:35:32
  And I just want to encourage you, if you think that someone
• 1:35:36
  is too big for you to to call or e-mail and ask a question about,
• 1:35:39
  you're wrong. Because you're just as big to
• 1:35:41
  reach out to that person and the greatest people in this
• 1:35:44
  industry, and we've had them here on the podcast.
• 1:35:47
  They will, They'll answer. They don't care who you are.
• 1:35:49
  You're a human. That's what they care about.
• 1:35:51
  And so they'll give you that respect.
• 1:35:52
  Join us next week. We're going to do it all over
• 1:35:54
  again here on the Guild Track and Field Connections podcast.
• 1:35:56
  Thanks everybody. And of course my mouse doesn't
• 1:36:02
  want to work, so I can't hit stop.