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Modern Occultist Magazine with Chad Kushins · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen?
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What? What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What?
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the occult Rejects Tonight we're joined by journalists, author,
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: and publisher Chad kushins Am I saying you have the
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: last name correct? I don't even know? All right, thank you?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Demand behind. Modern occultis a quarterly esoteric journal created to
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  Speaker 2: bring serious occult writing, historical investigation, original artwork, and conversations
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: with contemporary practitioners into one place. Modern Occultist covers a
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: remarkably broad landscape including ceremonial magic, gnosticism, new thought, paganism, WICCA, witchcraft,
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  Speaker 2: occult history, and the people who are actively shaping modern
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: esoteric culture. Rather than treating occultism as either a relic
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: or the past as either a relic of the past
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: or a collection of superficial Internet aesthetics, the magazine creates
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  Speaker 2: room for scholars, authors, artists, and working practitioners to speak
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  Speaker 2: about what these traditions have been, what have they become,
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  Speaker 2: and where they may be heading. He also brings a
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: professional journalist perspective to the occult world. His work has
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: appeared in publications including High Times, in the Daily Beast,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: and He is the author of several major biographies, including
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  Speaker 2: books on Warren Zevon and led Zeppelin drummer John Bonham.
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  Speaker 2: The background. That background makes him particularly interesting to us
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  Speaker 2: because a cult history, occult history desperately needs people who
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: are willing to investigate, document, question and preserve it without
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  Speaker 2: stripping away It's mystery. Today we're going to talk about
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  Speaker 2: why he created Modern Occultist, what it takes to publish
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  Speaker 2: as serious as esoteric magazine, how he separates genuine history
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  Speaker 2: from modern invention, and what the current occult revival may
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  Speaker 2: reveal about what the culture is producing. Chad, thank you
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  Speaker 2: so much for joining us. Before we introduce you, I
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: will be introducing the lun though. What is going on, Judith,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: how are you?
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  Speaker 3: I'm fine. Thank you for having me. Chad, thank you
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  Speaker 3: for coming on. I'm very excited to hear that we
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  Speaker 3: have a cult magazine out there, and I can't wait
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: to hear a few of the details I am.
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  Speaker 1: I don't have to speak yet. I don't want to
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  Speaker 1: interrupt what you were saying.
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  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, go ahead.
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  Speaker 1: I'm very flattered to be here. I'm a fan of
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: the show and it's such a pleasure to meet you
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: guys virtually but in real life now. And I really
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: appreciated the intro in it. That was beautiful. To be
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: honest with you, it's really nice to be on a
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: show that appreciates what we're doing. And it sounds like
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: you have a real enthusiasm for what our initiative is
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: and what we're what we're going for. So I was
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: really looking forward to getting a chat with you guys
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: about it. Thank you so much for having me.
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  Speaker 2: No, no, thank you please. I think it's like again,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: like I do think it's really cool. Like to me,
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  Speaker 2: it kind of almost brings back like even though it's
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  Speaker 2: not on paper, I do feel like it's a kind
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: of it reminds me back in the day when I
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: be looking at like, you know, like horror or or
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: or metal magazines like in seven eleven, you know, on
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: point I'm hanging out on portion road over by the lake.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: You know, because you're from New York maybe you know
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Lake ron carcoing. Well, look, you're looking at the magazine
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  Speaker 2: rack as a younger kid. Is my father's like getting
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: coffee or some shit, you know, looking at all these
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  Speaker 2: weird magazines. You know what I'm saying, And It just
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  Speaker 2: makes me like kind of think of like that era,
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: you know, you're like the spooky stuff, like, oh, you're
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: not supposed to look at that, you know, I got a.
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  Speaker 1: Perfect visual of you doing that now to say yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I just had hand then it was the only thing. Well,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. No, that is a little bit of
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: what we were going for a little bit. So I
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  Speaker 1: am co publishers. There's my wife Diana, who is not
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: seated with me at the moment. The two of us
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: are the publishers of it, and Diana does a lot
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  Speaker 1: of the outreach. We are launching a podcast, the Modern
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Occultist Podcast where we get to It's coming next month,
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  Speaker 1: so we kind of expand upon the interviews that we've
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: done in the magazine and Nick, you know, you're being
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  Speaker 1: interviewed by us as well, So we cater a certain
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  Speaker 1: amount of the questions towards what our guest specialty is
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  Speaker 1: or their field, and then we do like a standardized
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  Speaker 1: type one, you know, about the beliefs and the philosophy,
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  Speaker 1: and each person kind of answers that. But there's just
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  Speaker 1: so much space you can do. So the podcast will
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  Speaker 1: It's hosted by Diana and it can draw out longer
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  Speaker 1: questions and more real time like this, and she does
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: our social media and outreach. But for the magazine, my
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: journalism background came in handy quite a bit because I've
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  Speaker 1: been doing this for longer than I look. To be
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: honest with you, I always wanted to have a magazine
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  Speaker 1: and I missed doing traditional journalism because the biographies. Thank
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: you for mentioning that the ones that I write, they
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: do take years. And that's a point that I can make.
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  Speaker 1: A book takes a really long time, especially when it's nonfiction.
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  Speaker 1: We have the digital era, where with a magazine there's
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  Speaker 1: more rapid turnaround, the loss of quality as far as
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: that you can make changes. And I have to level
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: with you. If it wasn't for digital, I don't think
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  Speaker 1: we would have been able to put out a magazine
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  Speaker 1: at least to start.
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  Speaker 2: No, I don't think there's enough people that would get it.
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  Speaker 2: It'd be really hard, I think to do that, honestly
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  Speaker 2: my opinion.
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  Speaker 1: At least in the US, at least here.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, I will level with you.
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  Speaker 1: I see where I could begin with this. You had
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: mentioned why I got into this particular subject matter I
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: have in a reporter since I was sixteen. As I
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: was telling you guys beforehand in our virtual green room,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: thanks to my late mom, My first job in my
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: whole life was as an intern two summers in the
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: road community newspaper. I wanted to be a writer since
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I'm a kid and the age that I am now
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: forty three, the age I am now is when I
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: started at sixteen at this community paper, they didn't have
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: a website, it was still print. They showed me how
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: they cut the ads, how you do this, how you
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: do this, and it was really like the last cusp
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: of getting like the j Jonah Jameson vibe from your
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: publisher and editor. You know that that real traditional feel.
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  Speaker 1: Most of the journalists I know now everyone is remote
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: and the meetings take place like this. But I tried
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: to bring some of that original process to how we
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: to how we do the magazine. The books that I
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  Speaker 1: have ended up writing take a really long time because
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: of the interview process and as far as well, if
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: you don't mind me showing the most recent I have.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: My first hero in life when I was a kid
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: was Elmore Leonard, the crime writer, and he and I
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: corresponded when I was a kid. He took mercy on
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: me and proof read one of my short stories when
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I was fifteen, and for his centennial, I was very honored.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I got to know his family and for what would
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: have been his centennial. This came out last year. It's
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: his biography. But I did miss writing articles on a
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: regular basis, interviewing a wider spectrum of people on different topics,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: much like you guys do with your show. And this
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: really offers that. Diana and I, she's from Hungary originally,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: but we had lived in Berlin, Germany for a while
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  Speaker 1: and friends that I made there, I promised that this
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: circle's back. I don't speak German, so I became friends
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  Speaker 1: with a lot of ex pats who were English speaking
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  Speaker 1: from different countries. And the hub where we would meet
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  Speaker 1: is this incredible esoteric space that is there in Berlin.
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  Speaker 1: If you can visit, or if there's anybody international let's
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: watching this, please check out the Fool. It's named for
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: the zero card from the Tyrant. And I made buddies
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: that really close friends that were there, and everyone was
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: from different countries, and you know, more than once a
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  Speaker 1: week they would have a lecture series. It wasn't a
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: shop you would go there and you would hear lectures
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  Speaker 1: and presentations on taro astrology and then real the nitty
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: gritty of these things. And I was privy to hearing this.
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  Speaker 1: And then before we came back, I was I was
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: offered the opportunity to do a presentation, to do a
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  Speaker 1: workshop and a lecture, and my topic was esoteric AI
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  Speaker 1: technico justice, because AI could be a very scary thing
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: if you're a writer, but if you're a researcher, it
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  Speaker 1: has its uses and rant enough exactly, so I did.
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  Speaker 1: I did a presentation and a lecture on the Brazen
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  Speaker 1: Head and Socrates damon, how you pronounce it demon and
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  Speaker 1: how all of this foretold what some people use AI for.
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  Speaker 1: I know, chaos magicians that use it to create servitors.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I know I've been hearing about that more lately.
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  Speaker 2: You know people, I guess it seems to be like
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  Speaker 2: a topic of the debate. Yeah, people like the new thing.
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  Speaker 2: People witches are telling all the witches they can't do.
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  Speaker 2: I guess, I don't know. They tend to do that
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  Speaker 2: quite often too. I've noticed.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting because there's two ways we can go
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  Speaker 1: off on a tangent.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, but the big figure, the big the big public
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  Speaker 4: figure that got nailed for that, I think would probably
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  Speaker 4: be Grant Morrison, who was a chaos magician himself, but
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  Speaker 4: when he admitted publicly not that long ago that he
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  Speaker 4: used AI for different things that had to do with
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  Speaker 4: his ceremonial magic, a lot of artists in the comic
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  Speaker 4: community got mad finding out who's using it at all.
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  Speaker 1: So I think people might stay quiet about it. But
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  Speaker 1: it has its uses, especially if you're reading denser material
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  Speaker 1: and ancient texts. I have to level with you AI.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, you always want to double check everything, but
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: it helps with translations of some of the real ancient
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: stuff that you would read. But I did do a
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: presentation on that and I got really inspired, and I
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: had spoken with Diana about that. So our first issue
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: we kind of is based upon the original lecture that
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: became the theme of the issue. But it's mainly because
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: I love the process of learning this and having an
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: excuse to read all of these texts, and that's really
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: the best part of getting to do this every month.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's really the foundation.
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  Speaker 2: Of it is.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I had always had an interest in I don't mean
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: to do all the talking, but an interest in esotericism.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I'm originally from New York, Nick, as you know exactly
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: where I'm from.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're not only from a similar area, we're very
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: close from each other now, yeah each other.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that is bugged out. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: not gonna be too far away from you next month.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: No, we're gonna hang out at something.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: No, for sure, for sure, for sure. I definitely isn't
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: even from where you're I will give away where you
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: live and forget. I was gonna ask a question about
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: your area, but I've been wanting to go there regardless.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: We can't get into it.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: It's okay, Yeah, isn't it like one of the oldest
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: cities in the country or something like that.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Columbia, South Carolina. Yeah, there's a lot of history.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wanted to go there, especially Columbia.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I mean that's like so like divine, feminine.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because the South has its own
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: esoteric history and its own beliefs, and it's also very Christian,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: very Baptist in many ways. But there are if you
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: go back far enough, there's a lot of interesting esotericism
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: that goes back and here at usc the University of
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: South Carolina. I got in very blessed about this. I
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: have friends that work at the Tomas Cooper Library. That's
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the huge, beautiful literary archive that's there. The reason I
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: first moved here ever years ago is because Elimer Leonard's
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: archive this year. But one of the directors over there
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: is a good friend of mine, doctor Michael Weisenberg, who
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: contributed an academic article to our first issue. But he
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: always shows me the cool stuff that comes in. They get,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: you know, for the archive, they have ancient books on witchcraft.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Is a grim are made of human skin and not
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: from a Bruce Campbell movie, you know, But they but
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: but there is that stuff, so if you dig deep enough,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: you can find some cool stuff. A lot of colleges
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: with good archives will retain that just for its historic value.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: But I also get very funny looks sometimes as well,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: because it's not the occult is not the biggest interest here,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I will admit that. But I also come from you know,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: my late mom was very Catholic and my father converted
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: from Judaism, so we had a lot of different religions
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: in our extended family. I joke with I joked with
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: my brother that I was an altar boy, and now
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: I have an altar at home, so it kind of
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: prepped to me for that, and it me the ceremonial stuff,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, even both religions Catholicism, and then they think, well,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: depending on like I guess what kind of Jew you were.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, it could be very ritualistic, absolutely.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I mean it was interesting going back and looking at
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: my own family heritage because it was a practice in
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the household, but as far as kabbala and using the
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: original Hebrew names and things like that and the intonations,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: I had to self teach a lot of those things,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: you know, for what I do. But the history is
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: all over the Middle East, and anyone who was in
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the United States is somehow from immigrants, and a lot
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: of these families brought their own beliefs in their own
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: practice with them. My late mom was very Italian Catholic,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: and Italian witchcraft is its own subject. One of our
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: contributors is doctor Angela Puka. I know, yes, she did
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: a great piece for us and did a wonderful interview
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: in print as well, but that's her specialty is is
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Italian witchcraft, and really the the you know, she's very
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: specialized in what her and what her meta is for that.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: But it's fascinating when you see people from different countries
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: that zoom in on their own lineage and their own
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: roots and what you're able to delve out of that.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: The occult is kind of sort of everywhere, you know,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: and that's the one thing I've learned from writing about it.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: To me, I do have a question for you.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: You mentioned that you you had that the theory of
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: you're experience in Germany as the first UH episode or subscription.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure how you would say that the first
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: magazine you put out. So when when was that put out?
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: I know you told us in the green room.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Oh flattered, I'd be very happy to say. This is
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: still our first year, and we are quarterly because we
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: go by the equinoxes and the solstice. It makes the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: most sense because we do cover WIKA and we try
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: and mark each one of those appropriately for our readers.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: But I was also very inspired by Crowley who who's
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: whose magazine was The Equinox. So doing a quarterly basis,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: it gives us time to be honest with you, to
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: gather enough material to write, to gather the articles and
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: write it because we always have featured contributors, but yours
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: truly does have to write a certain a certain amount
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: of it. I have no sure that you know human generated.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of writing and research, but also
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the interviews. Uh. I like to give our contributors, as
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: you know now, a certain amount of time because everyone
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: has a busy schedule to really get to sit down
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: and do the interview and prepare for it. You know,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: in three months seemed to be a good amount of
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: time to get that in order, even if you're digital.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: But we started, Judith, I'm sorry, I know you had
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: asked when we started. We launched it was the Winter
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Solstice issue of twenty twenty one, so officially the cover
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: date is December twenty first, but there was a special
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: reason that we held off one week. Even we did
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: release it for the we did release it for the
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Winter Solstice, but the adjacent blog that we launched I
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: did exactly on January first of this year on purpose
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: because it was the one hundred years to the day
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: that Manly P. Hall began writing his magnum.
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: Opus, which is the Secret of All Ages, and he
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: began his research one hundred years to the day that
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: we launched the blog, So Manly p All and his
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: Occult Beliefs were the first blog that we did, which
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: is linked to the website Modern Occultist News. Thanks so
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: December three, December twenty first was that that was the
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: Technosis issue.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Diana was guest editor for issue too, which followed with
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: the Equinox, and that was our Manifestation issue, and the
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: one that just came out one month ago today is
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: the Chaos Magic issue for the Summersaultstice, and that's the
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: one that's available right now.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: So we have a lot of reading the catch up one.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: Oh thank you, I hope you no. I hope you
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: guys like it. But it's also one of those things
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: and I hope I'm not doing too much talking because
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: you've got good questions. Like Nick had said before, we
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: try and cover a wide spectrum of it, so there
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: even though each issue has a theme, we also try
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: and divide the departments of the magazine into different versions,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: or not versions, but rather different branches of the occult tree.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: So we have a Ceremonial Magic section. There is Wika
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: in Witchcraft as a section. I do try and run
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: some stuff that you would deem maybe new thought or
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: more secular, you know, because there are people that are
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: into the chakras and into yoga, but they don't really
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: consider it a cult. So we will sometimes do that
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: with some Eastern philosophy mixed in as well. And we're
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: expanding now to do a more literary basis because we
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: have a lot of cool publishing affiliates that keep sending
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: us great stuff. And as Judith had said, occult disliked
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to really buy books. They like hard copies of their books.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: So occult books are the third biggest selling genre in
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the publishing industry right now. And that happened right That
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: happened after COVID, when people were in lockdown, they did
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of deep thinking and philosophical thinking and a
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: lot of self initiation kind of stuck with it. This
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: is what I've been told from marketers who cover this.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: After COVID, people were at home reading the classics and
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: they were looking for life's meaning, and a lot of
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: them went into different directions of esoteric thought and the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: genre of occult books, such as some of our affiliates Llewellyn,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: reguil Wiser aon. All the sales figures went up because
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: people were starting to ask the big questions and they
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: went to the publishers that published that stuff. Yeah, I'm sorry,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I know that was.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: A lot No, no, no, I had no idea, I
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: mean makes sense. I mean I I thought it kind
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: of did in a sense. Yeah, I guess maybe, like
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I think it maybe through like the witchcraft community, I
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: think that definitely a little up.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: That's definitely one of the most openly organized ones. Is
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: you know, when we go back going to the internet
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: before it became what it is today, which is more
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: of a way of life than just a tool at home.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: A lot of people who are occultists or practice wicker
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: witchcraft and ceremonial magic would often find each other through
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: message boards and were able to communicate that way. And
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: it was community based from the very beginning. And I
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: think after lockdown people might have been a little bit
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: more open to it, a little bit more to trying
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: new things, you know, whether it was yoga or meditation
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: that can lead into different schools of thought for a person.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: And I know I kept busy by doing the John
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Bonham book, but I also did a lot of meditation
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: because I was in California at the time, primarily because
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I was in Berkeley at a Buddhist monastery, and I
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: wasn't there for the whole duration, but I was there
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: for three months, and then COVID happened and I had
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: to get an apartment. While I was there, I tried
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: to keep up all those practices and to stay sane.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people who read the magazine
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and read this material probably had the same mindset around
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: that time.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Did you want to say something?
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wanted to ask, because you gave us your
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: writing history, but where did your occult history actually start?
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: At what point?
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I thank you for that. I don't consider Buddhism in
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: any way to be a cult. I don't want to
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: use the wrong term to make it dorogatory. But I
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: did grow up in a Catholic household, and half of
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: my extended family is Jewish. But I always had an
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: interest in Eastern philosophy and Buddhism and Zen anyway, since
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I'm a teenager. And Mom started that too because she
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: knew I loved the writings of the Beat generations. And
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I remember when I was about sixteen seventh same age,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen years old, she brought me An Alan Watts
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: book on Zen for home from the library. So I
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: had an interest in esotericism, not just I mean when
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: you think of the occult when you're that age and
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you don't have a positive and once in that light
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: you think of horror movies or more the scary stuff
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and everything. So I worked slowly towards that because of
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: perhaps Christian mysticism and Buddhist philosophies that were more like
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: esoteric Buddhism, which I started to develop in my twenties
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: on my own, but then being in Berlin, where in
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Europe it's much more popular and much more open. I'm
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: not joking about that. You will see people who are
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: open about their occult beliefs or their esoterically much more
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: freely speaking about it or celebrating it than you will
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: in the US. And also, and you will find this interesting,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: people still read hardcore hard copies of books and magazines
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: much more frequently than they do in the United States.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: And I wish I could read German because there were
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: some really cool magazines on these subjects, just not here.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: So the interest developed a lot more when I was there.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: It's also where I was able to get my solomonic ring.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: If you don't mind sharing, and then I went to Portugal.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I can share this with you. I was able to
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: get my elious elfis Levy tetra Gramatan. But you see,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: this significantly more popular in Europe than anywhere else, which
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: is probably why some of our readers are in different countries,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: English speaking in other countries. I shouldn't have been surprised
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: when I saw that those are our analytics. It made
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: sense to me.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we think like Great Britain and over there
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: would be a pretty pretty big, huge huge Yeah, because
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I actually that is uh. I think it's United States,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Canada and then Great Britain is like the three top
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: for audio listens you know.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm assuming is because you're English related with
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: you and I do m so you probably may or
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: may not be surprised when you see who's listening to
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: your watching your show.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, even think of a culture. Fuck.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I forgot that guy's baby they put all the heat
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: throws on the sky. I've had him on before twice.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I forgot his name, David. He puts on a big
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: conference out there like every two years, and it seems
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: to do well.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: So I mean, are you talking about a culture.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's yeah, yeah, culture actually like that.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the organization that runs the Full in Berlin.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, those are my buddies there. They put on
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: a culture.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Carl Abraham said, I've had him on twice.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, if we're thinking of the same one, because that's
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the big Europeans festival that they do. But the organizer
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: are the same ones from the esoteric space that I
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: was I was telling you about.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the same one.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, but you know there is some of that
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: stuff here in the US. What is the one that's
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: coming there's one that's coming up in your neck of
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: the woods. As a matter of fact, actually there's a
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: southern Southern mysticism. I gotta double check the name, but
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: we have to look it up. I'll send it to you.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: But one of our contributors she did such an amazing job,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Mavis Lynn was Flima. She's appearing there and so is
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: her husband. Their appearance separately, but he's Richard Kazinski, who's
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: written a number of great books. But he's also Alista
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Crowley's biographer. So you do see some of these, some
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: of these festivals pop up, but in Europe it was
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: it was really all over the place. Yeah. Yeah, that's
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: where my interest in it first stemmed from. And it
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: only boomed because of the research and you spend a
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: lifetime learning and stuff about it. The magazine is an
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: excuse to keep educating myself as like long and I
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: get to view it that way. Okay, what else can
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I share it with you?
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Guys?
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I did want to ask.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: When you do a day because I'm good with just
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: a casual kind.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, know. There was a couple of questions
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: I just was wondering for myself. Well, first off, like
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: what even guy you into? Uh, I guess maybe even
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: getting into this, I guess the occult itself, maybe the esoteric,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: And like one of the reasons why I'm asking is
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: like because you know that I was gonna ask also
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: like did you have anything to do with your surroundings
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: because I know, for me, Long Island seem to have
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of its own law and a lot of
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: people believed in like these ghosts and stuff from the Indians,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: so like believing in ghosts, and like since my father
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: believed in aliens, like you know, those things were like
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: kind of like acknowledged. I guess at a younger age
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: that maybe like thinking of you know, weird stuff isn't
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: out of the blue. But I do wonder if Long
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Island had like somewhat of a hand and like or
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: me believing the stories I've heard, it.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Had to an extent because you know this, I mean,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: we're from the Amityville Horror and we're not only from there,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: but Ron Kakama is thirty minutes away from Tesla's cliff
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Tower where they said he was. I don't think he
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: was necessarily doing this. He was working on interdimensional portals
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. When you're a teenager and you
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: hear these things, of course that's where you're gonna sneak
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: out to go check out.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: I have to ask you what about the sale asylum
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: out there? I forgot the name of it, the one
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: it's the one that all the kids like to run into,
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: and I don't know, like.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: There might be King's Parks and then the one that
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I think he's talking about, mary Haven. I think that
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: might have been a Pilgrim State, which is a huge
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: one in Central Island, Okay, And.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I think the King's Park one. I think you're right
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: about this. See the kids sneak in there and they
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: usually to the last time I heard is that people
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: were sneaking in there still copper fittings. But but here's
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: some cool trivia for you that you may appreciate. Thomas Harris,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: the creator of Elector into the Hannibal Elector books, does
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: have a house on Long Island at the at the
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: East End, Okay, And when he was doing research for
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: where Lecter is being kept, he had based some of
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: it the layout in design on that hospital. So if
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: you go back to the second book book technically the
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: third book, the book Hannibal, when Clarice goes into the
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: facility where she first met with Lecter and now it's
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: shut down after his escape. Now she breaks in there
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: to go through whatever's left, and she has her flashlight.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: They didn't put it in the movie, but in the
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: book there's greater detail. It is based on that hospital,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: and Thomas Harris based it on that. The decrepit closed
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Asylum is based on the one right there in Kingspark.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: There's some fun trivier in Long Island. But yeah, I
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: always loved all the horror films and ghost stories and
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: all that stuff as a kid, definitely, but I started
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: to look at it in a very different life as
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: an adult, which is probably the best way to take
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: it more seriously and to research the real stuff. I
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: don't know. I can't judge this, but I don't know
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: if I would have had the diligence and the understanding
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: of spirituality to have tackled some of these subjects from
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: a philosophical standpoint if I didn't really get into it
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: into my late thirties and early forties, because there was
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: so much different types of theology that was jammed at
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: me through eleven years in Catholic school with nuns and
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: priests and celebrating not just the Catholic holidays but with
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: my extended family the Jewish holidays as well. All of
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: it is very beautiful. But working my way through that
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: and then getting into Buddhism on my own and learning
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: the meditative techniques and these things, it really did seem
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: more like a path where I'm ready to embrace more
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: of the history of gnosticism and esoteric roots of some
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: of these more than anything, to look at Christianity not
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: as what it is today, but how it was originally
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: perceived ages ago, as the Christian mysteries before it was
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: a founded church, when it was considered at the time
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: period a cult of its own, which is going back
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: thousands of years, but it was competitive with other cults,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: and that's not what they're going to teach you a
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Catholic school. So as an adult is easier, especially having
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: worked as a journalist and biographer, to look at these
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: things that would seem bizarre to some people, but to
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: have more of a more happier your head on your shoulders,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: and to approach it with less skepticism and to embrace
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: the history of it and to find that your beliefs
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: shift with that as well, And it was maybe its
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: healthier way to look at it, to come at it
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: as an adult.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Maybe, you know, I think so, m I like that, well, thank.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: You, But I can tell you about the processes of
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: the magazine.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wanted to ask about that actually,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: and then I did want to ask you know, I
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: put you on the spot and maybe you know some
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: of your favorite or more interesting what I'm here for
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: or interesting uh interesting you know interviews you might have
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: done and maybe get an idea of like what kind
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: of like you know, topics you might cover in there.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I'd love to hear about how you even
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: got it started.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: As far as this subject or my whole life.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this subject.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, because, to be honest with you, one of
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: my favorite interviews I ever did in my life was
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Stuart Copeland from the Police.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: But isn't.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: That was just funny?
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Was a blast. But then again, that's also because I
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: interviewed them about John Bonham and the people I needed
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: for that one was again during COVID, nobody was on tour.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Everybody was stuck at home. It was a little bit
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: easier to get people interviewed when they were, you know, bored.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I interviewed Stuart Copeland about John Bonham. The first thing
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: he says to me over the phone is he was
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: complaining about how toilet paper was running out and the
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: stores around it. I didn't expect that from the drummer
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: from the police. That was interesting, but I guess it
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: were all the same for the magazine. I don't want
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: to play favorites, but so far we have gotten really
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: cool interviews based on and I appreciate from both of
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: you guys that have you said that we're taking the
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: subject matter seriously. That caught on. That caught on, so
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: we were able to get some of the bigger names
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: in I don't consider a cult to be a genre,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: but in this realm, you know, the probably the most
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: fun I got to have. And it's not playing favorites.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: It's just because he's really funny in real life. Was lone.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: As soon as you said funny, I knew that's what
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: it was going to be on my.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Life because it's true. He just has like the best
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: sense of humor. So he would give you serious answers,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: know everything you know, like a textbook, like a professor.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: But then when I reminded him that, you know, Lawn,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I'm actually interviewing you. You might get a kick out
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: of this. Today is also the anniversary of this discovery
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: of LSD. It's like, oh perfect, and he, you know,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: fist pumps me over FaceTime. I'm like, this is the
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: cool at. I want to be this guy when I
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: when I get you. One of my favorite modern occult
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: writers is also John Michael Greer, and I'm a very
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: big I mean he he He's known for neo paganism
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: and for his books on modern Druid practices, but he's
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: another encyclopedia when it comes to just esoteric and occult
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: history and you can ask him anything. And I've been
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: a fan of his for years, and his excellent book
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: The Occult Philosophy Workbook is one of my favorite, like
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: pragmatic books for anyone starting out to change your mindset
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: and to look at the world both as the invisible
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: and the invisible from like from a practical standpoint, there's
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Him and before him was like Israel regarding and their
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: writing is different, but they cover some of the same
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: ground from different angles.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I would say so.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Thank you, but it was a real honor to get
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: John Michael Knuer for an interview as well. And one
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: of the best friends that our magazine has had so
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: far is Mavis Lynn, whose new book The Holy Year
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: of Thilima is probably one of my favorite books on
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Filimo that a modern one that's come out in quite
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: a few years, because it's it feels like a true
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: extension of what Crowley was writing. And she's also done
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: like some modern not tweaks, but added more modern questions
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: that people might have, such as she puts an emphasis
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: on Alista Crowley's wife Rose, and previous writers have not
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: really done that. But she was crucial to the founding
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: of Filima and One of the things that I thought
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: was really cool was I had asked Lynn if we
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: could have an excerpt from the book, and she offered
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: two things. She said that would be wonderful, and I said, well,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: it's for our It's for our summer Solstice issue. And
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Lynn actually said, she goes, well, I have two ideas.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I can tell you how to construct a proper Philima
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: summer alter, or you know, if you don't want to
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: keep it seasonal, I could give you a recipe for
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Alista Crowley's Cakes of Light. And I said that would
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: be amazing, but I think the seasonal one might just
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: fit the issue better. But when she wrote back to me,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: she actually said, she goes, I also have gluten free options,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: And I thought that was the coolest thing. As funny
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: as this is going to sound, but in the modern era,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: like to even have thought of that for someone who
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: is a practitioner practitioner of Filima, is there a gluten
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: free option? And I'm not making a joke like that
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: was a really curious modern tweak that some of today's
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: practitioners would even think to add as not as a trend,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: but just as time has passed, you're going to get
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: people that want to take part, but that could be
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: a concern. So I really got a kick out of
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: hearing that type of thing from any one of our contributors.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I love that that's interesting.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: But I can also if it's okay with you, not
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: just as a shout out, but I could share I
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: do have some goodies to at least show you guys,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: if that's okay, because I made it a point to
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: bring to have ready books, not just from our publishing affiliates,
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: because it's not a matter of just hyping them even
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: though they've been amazing to us and there's such a
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: pleasure to work with, but also that I was able
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: to get some really great interviews that are coming up
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: in the next issue of the magazine, and I brought
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: some of those books if you might get a kick
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: out of it. So, for example, the next issue that
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: we have coming out is September twenty first, so it's
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: the Fall Equinomics, but it's our Angels and Demons issue.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: But we don't just do angels and demons in history.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: There's also that we're doing planet planetary magic and some
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: of how the Tarot can tie into that into one
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: larger thing. So for example, Red Wheel Wiser was kind
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: enough to send this, but we have an interview with
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: one of the authors of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto via
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: all Right. Julia is amazing. She is an astrologer and
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: tarot expert that's based in the UK and her interview
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: is fantastic. But aside from a practice sure, she also
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: has very academic responses, so it's a nice balance. This
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: is what we're doing a major review for the issue
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Is that from Is that from Wiser? Yeah? Yo, I'm
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: looking at a stack of books. I have a stack
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: of books on my on my table that they send me,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: all these authors that offered to have on my show.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: And sometimes I'll tell them like, all right, I'll take
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: these people and I must have about four or five
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: of them that they've never They've sent me the book,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: but never sent me the author that have on the show.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: And I'm gonna be like, you want to send these
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: people to me? And the funny thing is it's actually
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: some of the books that I was more interested in myself.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I'm like, of course those aren't the guess that came
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: on like, and that's one of them. That's one of
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: the books that's why I even Yeah, that's yeah, that's
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: what made me think about it. Yeah, yeah, you canna see.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Well, it's either you can read it yourself or you
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: can wait.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: For Yeah, I might might be better off trying to
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: read it before I get her own. Yeah, I was, yo,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: So I was actually been like, you know, I was
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: even thinking I'm just gonna find these people myself online
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: and them because I've done that myself too. They'll send
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: me the books and they don't always send me the
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: interview work, you know connection. So I'm like, all right,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I'll go ask you myself. And I've told people, you know,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: why is there a Llewellyn send me your book? But
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: they never hooked me up with the interview. Do you
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: still want to come on? And they're like, oh sure,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: you never even told me we lost the loon. Yeah yeah,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: this's probably coming back. Yeah yeah, but it's kind of
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: they probably get so overwhelmed with I'm sure because I
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: know there's other shows that are doing the same thing.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: They probably like, forget who asked for what? Sometimes I
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: don't know, Well.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Nick, you might appreciate this because there's also two writers speaking.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: And in all fairness, I have always appreciated when someone's
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: reached out for an interview like tonight, but in the past,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: if someone has read the book or they're interested in
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: the subject matter, because you know, it's I hate to
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: say this, but it can be difficult for writers say
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: welcome back. It can be tough for writing.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: Sorry.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: No, I've gotten a lot of real positive responses from
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: the authors who seem very appreciative when I tell them
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I want to interview you about your book and I'm
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: willing to do a review or assign a review to someone.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's because it's esoteric and
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: a cult subject matters, so there's just a real kindness
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: behind it. Every writer I've worked with on the magazine
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: are nicer than perhaps some of the other genres. And
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: maybe it has to do with it that it's very
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: spiritual subject matter. But you would get more yessons than
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: you might be thinking.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: My friend, Yeah, anytime I've ever reached out to one
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: of my own, they get all excited. Oh They're like,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, sure, yeah, I haven't had one tell me
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: no that I had to actually reach out on my own.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know if this would be for air, but
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: you and I are going to talk about this because
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: the PR people that are at all my affilies are
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: some of the nicest people in the public relations departments
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: I've ever dealt with. And I can make some recommendations
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: for you for real if you want to do that
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: for real, because they've they've not necessarily recommended who I
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: should interview. But when I've shown an interest in a
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: specific book and I said I really like to do
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: a cover, I'd like to do a feature on this,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: or a real review of this, do you think such
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: and such would be interested in an interview, they will
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: at least inquire for me, and most of the time
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: the answer is yes. So to be honest, I don't
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: know if I could have necessarily gotten John Michael Greer
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: if it wasn't for the PR department at aon Spirit,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: because they reached out for me. And I know he
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: gets requests a lot, but I think it gets taken
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: seriously a little bit more by an author when it's there,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: you know, one of their publicists that's doing the doing
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: the asking.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Sometimes I even wonder
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: if there's like even some sort of agreement that it's like,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: you know, you're going to go on these things every
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: once in a while, right to try to promote your broth,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Like I don't know, you.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Know, you want me to go inside baseball for a second.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: But I really appreciate when I get asked to do this,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: and I know I keep saying that, but it was
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: really wonderful that you had invited me. When one of
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: my books has come out, comes comes out, it's been
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: standard three for three where I have to agree to
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: do two weeks worth of publicity after publication day, so
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: I do have a certain say in it, and it's
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: always fun. But I've had to do a certain number
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: of podcasts or radio shows and interviews because during those
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: that fourteen day period you got to make yourself available
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: to some of it. But then after it cools down
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: a little bit, any invitation I get after that is
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: a huge bonus, you know. So it might be the
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: same thing it's worth asking I would ask for you.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: I have to ask you, so, whyser sent you some stuff?
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Did you happen to get any of these? Chavon readist
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: is she's awesome and she is also a tarot expert,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: but she goes by the that's her her name, but
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: her book is about empowerment through the tarot, and we're
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: doing an interview with her in the same issue. This
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: is a really cool one that I also recommend. We're
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: gonna a review on that. Uh my good. But I
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: get to say this now, and I hope he won't
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: be offended. Our good friend Lawn. His latest book is
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: a novel. It is not one of his brilliant nonfiction books. Instead,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: it's a brilliant novel which is about young Alister Crowley
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: joining the her medic Order of the Golden Dawn and
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: how he branched off from there.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they sent me his book.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry to finished now.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I said, they sent me that book. They're trying to
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: get him on, but I don't think it's gonna happen.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: You got a copy of this, Yeah, they sent me one.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: I asked him. I was like, yo, you think you can.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: I was just trying to get him on the show
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: and just keep it a rail. And I was like, oh,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I know he's published through Llewellen no Wiser And they
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: sent me what this? So I hit one of them
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: up and I was like, oh, you think you could
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: get Lon Milo on my show? Maybe? And They're like, oh, yeah,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: it shouldn't be a problem. He just released the book
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: with us too, and I was like, oh, what a coincidence.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: That's perfect, And they sent me the book, but I
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: never got I never got another response back. I'm like,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: all right, I'll keep the book. Thanks.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I would either follow up with that or contact
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: him because it is a complete awesome gentleman, every single
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: no no.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: I would love to get him on the show. I
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: mean other people on the show have even interviewed him, so.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Oh you know he's he gives a great interview too.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm not just saying this, but I had to
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: do an any Bitty Baby Library book touring Michigan in
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: May and I took this with me because I get
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: so tired of having to prepare for that stuff. And
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I read this in three days. I couldn't put it down.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: It felt like I was watching a movie. And I'm
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: not saying this in case he sees this. In all honesty,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: I love this. And he's not known for his fiction,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: and for someone who.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Is so oh, it makes sense if he could. Yeah.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Plus it's got some of his humor in there too,
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: so him writing a novel of that Crowley is fantastic.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, I could just image with them.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: This just came in the mail yesterday. It's the fortieth
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: anniversary and I'm a big fan of Rachel Pollock's tarot writing,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: but this is coming out from Reguil as well, So
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: this is a cool one right here. I highly recommend
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: this if you're a tarot fan, because it is considered
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: one of her standard texts. Finally, you had mentioned Cross Crow.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: That's why our fleets as well. They put out some
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: really cool stuff.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had some of theirs on.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: We got an interview coming up with one of their authors,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Frader Barabbas, who writes he writes well, he is not
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: only a writer of witchcraft and the occult, but he
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: also writes pragmatic books. This is more like a workbook
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: or a grimore more than anything else, because it hit
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: it's practical exercises for meditation and also for the angelic beings.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: We're doing a review of that. I think I don't
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: want to get this wrong. Yeah, he's the founder of
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: the Order of the Gnostic Star, so he has his
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: own order and is books Seraphim. That's another cool guy,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: but that's Cross Crow. Let me see I got three
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: more if it's fair, because if you've got.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Questions, now go for it. Go for it.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Yah is a spirit aon Spirit sent Us some really
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: cool stuff.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: I've never even heard of that, This one.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: A on the They put out some really beautiful, oversized stuff.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: So we're gonna be doing this the minor Arcana. This
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: book is actually I think it's the first time that
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: it's been back in print been since I'm to check this.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I want to get this right. It's from the nineteen forties,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: it and it was by this Russian author. It's translated though,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: but this was one of the first major books on
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: just the minor arcana, and it was one of the
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: critical studies of it. But they put out a really
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: beautiful hardcover edition. It's it's so gorgeous. I don't very
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: selective who borrows my books because books they disappear, they
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: don't come back. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm not going to
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: say that I save the best for last. But as
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: far as like presentation is concerned, because some of these,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, the books are brilliant, but they are paperbacks,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: and you know, they're meant to just be read. But
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: like Judith had said before, like some of these are
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: like collector's editions and people want to have that, you know,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: the shelves of real beautiful things. This is this is
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: coming out. It's I don't believe this they released it yet,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: but aon I'm gonna make some recommendations to you, Nick,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: this is coming out, and it is. It is an
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: anthology of just the magical writings of W. B. Eats
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: from the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the famous poet.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: They are put this is absolutely stunning, this huge copy.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: You see how brand new it is. They just sent
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: it to us, But it's all of his essays on magic,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: and to be honest, some of that could be stuff
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: can be tough to track down anyway in a nice copy,
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: but this is a brand new one with notations and
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: edited by John Michael gre So this is one that
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: I would have probably wanted to purchase anyway, just because
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I love how it looks. And finally, one of our
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: contributors for the next issue is also more academic minded,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: but he's amazing. Peter Mark Adams is doing nice.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh you're a fan, Yeah, yeah, I've had him
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: on the show. I've actually been on a round table
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: once or twice of them. It is a pretty interesting
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: intelligent guy.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: All right. I'm happy to hear that.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I dig some of the things, some of his
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: ideas and opinions.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: He's really cool and he's They have I think a
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: tenth anniversary edition of this coming out from Scarlett Imprint,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: but haven't even opened it. I came home today and
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: this was waiting for me. His latest one is, yeah,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: the Game of Saturn, which is a study of the
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: very first Tarot deck. But this is I'll be honest
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: with you. They have not put out the tenth anniversary
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: edition yet. It's coming out in a few months, but
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: as a review copy, they sent me a sealed copy
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: of the original. So for you guys, I'm going to
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: do an unboxing right now. I haven't even looked at
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: this yet, and the reviews I saw this is heavy too.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to hit him up and ask him
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: if he wants to come up with Yeah.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: He's in the middle of actually preparing the anniversary edition
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: for publication. Oh that's gorgeous. There were sexual magic in alchemy,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: yeahicle writes magical rituals. Yes, So we're going to be
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: doing a review of this and his interview is based
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: on the anniversary edition of this book. So yeah, that's
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: that's the September issue. But it wasn't just a hype
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: of it to give you an idea. As you know
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: since you know him, he's very academic minded, but he's
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: a mastery of esoteric history. He also cover some of
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: the older books that have are now back into print
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: and practitioners who are adding to the library of modern
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: occult writing.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: So did we lose Nick, No, no, no.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: No, he probably had. He probably needed to step away
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: for a quick minute. But I have to tell you,
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: with that little display you just so, you probably made
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: every occult drool.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: I'm very flattered. Well, here's the deal. We are expanding
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: over the next year, Diana and I. I have two
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: things that I would love to share with you guys,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: if that's cool. And I don't mean to sound like
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: a commercial for the magazine. That's not what I'm going for.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: But we will be pivoting towards a more expansive website
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: over the next few months. Because with the last issue,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: issue three, we updated the website and added a new
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: feature called Occult Reads. It's is called a cult Reads
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: and because we have at this moment, fifteen major affiliates
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: that are sending us the best stuff. There's no way
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: that I would ever have been able to review all
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: of this. So we find freelancers and we outsource for
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: more reviews. Judith, if you want to do some book
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: reviews and get to keep the hard copies, so give
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: you my contact there for the show as well.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: Oh, it would be my honor.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Actually A well, now I get to ask something really quick.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Now you say you're interested in the occult, but what
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: is some of the subject matters specifically that you do, like,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: whether it's taro or wicca or astrology? What is some
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: what are some of your personal forte If you.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: Don't mind my personal forte. I have dealt with the taro.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know enough about astrology. I'm just like a
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: surface astrology person. I'm big into the Egyptian the Egyptian mythologies. Yes,
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: very cool. Yeah, yes, I'm very much a gnostic. So
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: I am actually in the process of taking a closer
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: look at the Bible itself, right, And so that was
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: I have appreciation for some of the saints that I
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: took for granted as a young child, because I grew
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: up Catholic as well.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: This sounds like a very similar story. That's the whole thing.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: I went to Catholic school. And if you check out
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: our blog over the next week, we have the celebration
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: of Mary Magdalene is coming up this week. But we
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: did a blog post that I wrote it. I wrote it,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: but it's a blog post celebrating the whole historical Mary Magdalene.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: So it's not just the Bible version. We get deep in.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: I got deeper into the Gnostic beliefs about her and
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: the importance of her role according to the other you know,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: the Gnostic beliefs that it's the whole concept of the
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: you know, the prostitute. That was one pope that said
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: at one time, when the truth of the matter is
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: she was probably from a wealthy family and was staking
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Jesus's traveling, you know, his travels, which is different than
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: what I was told in school.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot different. Yes, Yes, actually she's one I've
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: learned to appreciate that much more in my delving back in.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: But I would be honored to do a book reviews
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: all about that. But I also also wanted to ask,
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: do you have a submission process for us average Joe's don't.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: That's in all fairness, what before I say that, I
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: have to playfully and appreciatively correct one thing. If you
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: have this show in all honestly you're a journalist, it
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: does count. I don't think you know, if somebody takes
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: the material this serious and does their research and knows
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: what they're talking about, its sidesteps being an influencer or
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: a walking commercial. You know what you guys have as
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: a legitimate show. That's one of the reasons I was excited,
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: to be honest, so I appreciate the modesty, but at
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: the same time, oh, you know what you're talking about.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: So this is this is to me, this is the
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: real deal. This is where people get their information, whether
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: it's digital magazines or websites. As long as it's something
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: that's vetted and it has a research background and it's
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a credit in some capacity, I think
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: it's the real deal. And this show definitely to me,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: it constitutes that. Our submission process. I don't want to
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: forget your question though. That is one of the reasons
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: that we want to expand further because we have been
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: getting questions about submissions. But and this, this is good
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: but it also it's given me a lot to think about.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Very few people have asked about submissions when it comes
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: to the non fiction that we are known for, a
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: lot of short story writers and a lot of writers
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: of fiction are curious. And I don't know if that
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: necessarily would constitute real occult writing or if it's just
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: because the market for fiction always has trends of its own.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: But we do accept submissions on our website and our
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: email monn Occultist make at gmail dot com. We look
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: at it, Diana and I we threw it. But we've
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: only accepted a handful of submissions thus far because when
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: it comes from someone who wants to write a non
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: fiction piece or is willing to do a book review,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: you know which is which is mainly what we do. Yeah,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: that tends to be what our preferences. If we if
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: we can expand to a point where we can put
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: fiction in poetry, I would like to, but I don't
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: want to be the person that judges the quality of
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: someone's short story or their poetry, because that's not what
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: I write. I've done editing and proof writing and copywriting
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: and nonfiction, so I'm not a task master. But I
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: feel a little bit more comfortable as an editor, you know,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: weighing that. But if you do a book review, that's
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: you know, that would be different. But we do have
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: an ongoing submission process and we try, like I said,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: it's every three months. If anybody's out there and wants
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: to submit something, you try and do it about a
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: month and a half in advance. It would be really
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: helpful because we line up a lot of the feature
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: stories by that.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought I think we went okay, No, we
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: didn't go dark. I thought we went dark there for
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: a moment.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: Can you hear me? Can you hear me?
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes, we can hear you.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. For some reason, I won't pick up the camera.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it is.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: This is why I'm using Diana's computer sometimes my camera,
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: and I don't want you to just have a voice
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: for the whole hour.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Sometimes I know the web browser like just out
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: of nowhere, like just doesn't support blah blah blah, and
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: then works twenty minutes later.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: I can hear you a loud clear yeah.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's good.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Well those are But we do have the exciting stuff
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: that's coming up is with the last month we did
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: launch the Occult Reads section on the website and the
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: daily blog is called Modern Occultist News. But for the
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: last month we've done an additional feature.
• 57:05
  Speaker 6: Where there is a book review and a recommended book
• 57:09
  Speaker 6: daily because we've been working with enough publishers and have
• 57:15
  Speaker 6: enough reviews in the chamber that we've been able to
• 57:18
  Speaker 6: do that, and I want to branch out into more
• 57:20
  Speaker 6: literary stuff.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: I collect books just like you, Juth, so it's very
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: much the same way, and the Occult read section on
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: the website is probably going to be very centric for
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: when we expand over the next year. If I had
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: my choice, and this is what Diana and I are
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: pushing for, the flip book style digital magazine will always exist,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: but we might pivot towards a website as magazine like
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Pitchfork or like litthub, where we would be able to
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: accept more submissions and run more reviews on a daily
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: basis if the website itself was the magazine as opposed
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: to just flipping through and having to be really discerning
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: over how much we can take each time, and for
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: that we are, I will admit it. It's going to
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: be a couple of months, but we will be launching
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: an app so that the magazine will be you know,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: easier to download through that. That's we're excited about that.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: And Diana launches our podcast, which will not be competitive
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: with you guys. It's very low magazine. But the Modern
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: Occultist podcast hosted by Diana sirhol is next month. So
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: that's in August, so you check it out. Yeah, yeah,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: happy to talk more about that.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: August. Is it August first? Per chance?
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: I don't believe it's the first saying it's so mad.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: I forgot the exact date that it is, but I
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: know that it's mid month. But I'll let you I
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: will definitely let you guys know when it would because
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: it would be so cool to do some kind of
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: you guys will be guessed on the podcast. That would
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: be amazing. We return the favor. That would be a
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: lot of fun.
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, Nick likes to be on that side.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, it's less that I have to do.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: It's a lot more fun. On not to do.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: I put you on the spot, Judith when I asked
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: you some questions.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: No, yeah, actually that that was an unexpected turn.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Well it's well, I one of the reasons I love
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: your show is also because it is very conversational, which
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: reminds me of the golden days of AM talk radio,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: which is what I grew up with as a kid. Ye,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: absolute conversations, you know.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: When we were talking about that earlier art Bell.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I always liked that was it where it
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: wasn't just the Q and day. It was just like
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: a really cool conversation with a different guest and to
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: see where that goes. To me, that's always been the
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: best type of interview anyway. And I gotta be honest
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: with you, the interviews and the magazine have to be
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: a little bit more clicked because we're in print with
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Diana's format. With the podcast, I think it can be
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: a little bit more open ended, like the way that
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: you guys get like really cool conversations going, and that's
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: always what I like to listen to myself.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: So it could be really cool push towards that.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Thanks man.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was somebody I know, Mario from Symbolic Studies,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: not biting one of his not biting one of his styles,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: of one of his techniques, but something that might even
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: work for you. He has like sometimes people just record
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: themselves because not everybody's good at typing, and we'll send
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: in like ten or fifteen minute voice clips on like
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: an idea or a topic like you never know, like
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: instead of like if you know, kind of still keeping
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: it where you might be doing like an article from
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: somebody but they're not writing it because maybe they're not
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: the best writer. So you get them to talk and
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: you played on your podcast and you and your wife
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: could talk about what you thought about the article. You
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: know what. I appreciate he does that, and I was like, oh,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: that would fit the magazine type esque podcast podcast.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: Really, this just came up last night because we got
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: our first request for that format. One of our guests
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: that's going to be on the podcast was in not
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: this issue, but in a second issue, in the Manifestation
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: issue A brilliant writer. He is a wicked priest from
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Brazil named Claudio Claudine Prito and his one of his
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: books in Portuguese was translated by Llewellyn Llewellyn Worldwide, which
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: is the HIC.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: He might be another one that I was supposed to
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: get on too.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: He's amazing, but he was very transparent about it. He said,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: my English is just in real time, it can be
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: a little bit difficult, but that's why when we did
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: the print interview, his answers were fantastic because he was
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: able to take his time and do a translation of it.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: So he had asked if we sent the questions in advance,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: could he filmed his responses, and we are, and we
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: are doing a special episode under that format because he's bilingual.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: But it was it was a comfort level, and I said,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: I'd be happy to do that because I want to
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: be able to be inclusive and I want to be
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: able to have voices from all over the world. So
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: if this works for more of our guests, I thought
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: that sounded great.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, no, no, it
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: just sounded like it would fit, you know what I'm saying,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Like for me, it would be easier for me to
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: record myself possibly then have to, you know, write something
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: that long.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: You know, I was going to say, you know, I
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: sent you your questions.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I know. I was supposed to get to
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: him over the weekend, and I'm going to get to
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: him tonight and tomorrow for.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: Sure, though I don't need him for quite a few no,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: but you.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Know what the thing is, I may forget and I
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: got a lot of ship coming up in the next
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: three weeks, so I'm better off getting it done now.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: Is that his way of telling me that I have
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: to text him every couple Yeah?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was another thing too. I was just like, yo,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: I gave this due my number. You don't have to
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: email me anymore. If you wanted to know about the link,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: you could just text me. You know.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: Not everybody is open to that.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I gave you my phone.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: Text but I'm very weary about giving that out sometimes,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: so with you, it's fine.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, well sometimes.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: It's good to use the sermon in that context.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, we were asking about submission guidelines. That's why I
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: don't put the phone number up because there's a big
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: difference between someone I know who were already collaborating and
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: if someone's can text over and over and you know,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: did I make the cut any way? It could happen
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: to know. And it's weird being on the editorial stance
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: of that because I've been a freelancer in my whole life,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: you know. But I do want to add something super quick.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: If it's okay, come up or not. Both of you
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of this interview had asked why an
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: occult magazine. The truth is is that I do think
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: and I'm not saying that we are up there on
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: the scale, but one of the biggest inspirations for this
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: really is that, and Diana and I both have this
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: as one of our mantras, is that this subject matter
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: kind of sort of always evolved, at least over the
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: last century through magazines and small publications because of stigmas
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: that were attached with it because it was underground the
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Hermitico of the Golden Domes, a very elite group. WICCA
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: kind of had to work not as much of a
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: public face until a Gerald Gardner. But behind the scenes
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: you have a really beautiful lineage of some of my
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: favorite occultant esoteric writers who all had their own magazines
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: because that's how they were able to work out their
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: ideas and put their theories down for the public to
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: see before putting out what would become like a more
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: famous book. Alista Crowley is probably the most famous of
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: that with The Equinox and how he was able to
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: structure Thelma through I think it was twice a year
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: that that magazine came out. Helena Blevotsky had two magazines
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: consecutively to work out her theories. Dion Fortune, the magazine
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: that she founded, is still in existence in the UK,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: and you know, we just did the chaos Magic issue
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: in my One of my favorite chaos one of the
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: most important and personal favorites, is Peter J. Carroll, who
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: started writing about his theories on chaos magic in a
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: small magazine, The New Equinox, before it ever became a book.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: So one of the things that we do is we
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: not just cover these subjects and interview practitioners, but I
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: have tried over the last few issues to at least
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: have a new theory or someone who's working on something
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: new in the occult. A friend of mine and we
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: became friends because we collaborated, is a chaos magician in
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: the UK named Gavin Fox, and he wrote a book
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: that I highly recommend called The Accelerated Necromancer. But he
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: did an original piece for us that are his own
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: theories that had a tinge of chaos magic. And I
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: got so excited by this article because it was someone
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: not just reporting on the history of something but putting
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: a new theory forward. And I and that's what my
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: hero is as a cult. Publishers did do over the
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: last one hundred, one hundred and fifty years really, and
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: I'd like to I'd like to be able to put
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: more of that out there. So if anybody's watching in
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: their submission guidelines, like you asked, Judith, if there are
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: a magician, ceremonial magicians, or esoteric writers that want to
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: try out new theories or new experiments, that is one
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: thing that I know I would be very interested in
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: branching out with as well, because there's a beautiful history
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: of that in these in these types of magazines as well.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to put that out there.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Judith, do you remember how often they did send
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: out the equinox? I don't remember. I remember getting it
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: a couple of times while I was in.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: The audio Crowley's Oh they.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: They send something, didn't they send some what was there? Monthly?
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Not monthly? They're like thing that they sent they do? Yeah,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: they did send something. I can't remember what it was like.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: Once we talked about the same thing. It was that
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: Alistair Crowley's well.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: It was the oto. I'm not sure if they called
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: it tea.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: Oh see, I don't know who does that now. But
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: Alistair Crowley's original was twice a year, and if you
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: go back to the original issues, he had fiction, and
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: he had poetry, and then criticism, and then there was
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: a section of it where he would put more of
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: his new ceremonial practices and rituals and theories in there,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: and then you have not to be lectury. But then
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: you have the Blue Equinox, which is a book form
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: of just a compendium of the ritual stuff. But the
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: original issues of the magazine was actually had a huge
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: variety of different types of occult writing. But the stuff
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: that people remember the most are are his teachings that
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: came out of it. But it did have more creative
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: writing mixed in and stuff that was very That was
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: definitely an inspiration to me as well, I have to admit,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: but I mean, I'm not starting in religion. But that's
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: why having other practitioners, practitioners write about what they're working
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: on and they're willing to share a theory much the
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: way that Crowley did is a huge interest to me.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: It also opens up new discussion points.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly. Yeah, And I know that there can always
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: be dissension among different different schools of thought, but you know,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: if you read anything academic. You see professors, and you
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: see academics arguing amongst themselves anyway, So I don't know
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: why a cultist would get a bad rap. If we
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: can have a lively discussion about new theories and new practices,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: I'm happy to play host to that. I don't necessarily
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: have to take part. But anything that keeps the conversation
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: going without being contentious, all it does is breathe new
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: life into the subject matter, and that to me is
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: the most important key. But like I said, we are
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: very community based, so hearing from different schools of thought
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: is something that I had wanted for it anyway.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: Know it's sounds so andesome, Thank you so much.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: It is happy. It is free to subscribe to everybody,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: So please check out Modernicultist dot com because we are
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: going to be offering a lot of cool new features
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: over the next year. I'm not wrapping it up, I
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: just want to do it is a free magazine and
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: the subscription is free, so I hope people will check
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: it out because there's no charge whatsoever. But we will
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: over the next year, probably branch out into offering some
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: stuff that might not be free, not necessarily membership status
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: and things, but merch and hopefully a print edition, like
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: I was saying, hopefully an annual once a year. I
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: would well, contributors are asking like could I have a
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: hard copy to have for my collection, And it's really
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: hard to say no to contributors who've been so good
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: to us and who become friends. So if I could
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: do an annual print edition where it's like a you know,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: a book length of the four issues slammed together once
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: a year, Diana and I were talking, and that's that's
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: something that we're toying with the idea of doing. Maybe
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: have an old school cover like the old Victorian magazines
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: and just have the list of all the contributors of
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: the year. Something like that. I think would be a
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: lot of folks we're working.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: On that would more subscribers help that come into fruition.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: It most certainly would pointing that out. I don't mean
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: to sell it on that, but since it is a
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: free periodical, I hope if anybody is interested, they won't
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: just visit book will subscribe. We don't send garbage out
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to say that our newsletters are few
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: and far between. It, you know, the magazine itself arrives
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: either on the solstice or the equinox in your inbox.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: And if you do check out the blog, we have
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: literally there is a new blog this Day in Occult History,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: where we tell you what happened in the history of
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: the occult on that day every day, along with a
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: new book recommendation right below it that matches the subject matter.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: So this is all free stuff. If you want to
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: check it out. I hope people really will. But thank
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: you for the platform for getting that out. Tana will
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: appreciate it too, because the podcast is something we're really
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: psyched about.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Uh, you guys have sponsors.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: As of right now, we have affiliate partnerships with fifteen
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: different publishers, and if you don't mind, I don't mean
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: it to be like I'm hyping anybody.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: One of the templates that I was using for this
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: at the beginning was it's a great online magazine called
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: Literary Hub, and they have an offshoot called Crime Reads,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: and it's the website is the magazine, and they work
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: literally with every publisher. There is no favoritism. It's just
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: if you love books, they have different pulldowns for any genre.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: It's just this is the magazine for lovers like what
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: readers digest used to be, but just very very very modern.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: And following suit with that template, I wanted to partner
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: with as many of the publishers as possible because I
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: wanted there to be as many voices that could be heard.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: All these publishers put out great stuff. So if you
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: don't mind me listening, just a few Llewellyn Worldwide, Red
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Real Weiser, aon Spirit, an Anthema, Scarlet Imprint, Inner Traditions.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: Those are just a few of them, but based on
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: those right off the top. So many new books every year,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: and so many reissues of classic stuff, and so many authors.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: I had mentioned Lon Michael Duquet a bunch of times,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: I know that, but him and John Michael Greer have
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: pretty much put out books for like every one of
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: these publishers at some point. So if you hype one
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: of their books and it's for Wiser, there's a good
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: chance that a reader is also going to look them
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: up and find oh, they have a book from Llewellyn
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: that I would want as well, because in the occult world,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of the authors, in order to keep writing,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: do write different material for different publishers.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you do see that there's some bleedover.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: It's I know that companies are in general, are supposed
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: to be competitive by nature, but this is a very
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: community based thing where there's a lot of goodwill. And
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: maybe it's because these are spiritual, spiritual subject matter publishers anyway,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: that just it's just been a very positive experience. It
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: doesn't feel when I work with the PR companies on
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: this stuff, it doesn't really feel like I'm dealing with
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: like a corporate entity. I don't get that vibe from them.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's the same with the big, big,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: big publishers that put out, you know, more mainstream material.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: But because all these writers and all these publishers put
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: out different forms of spirituality, it seemed to be a
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: lot easier to work with than some of the experiences
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: I've had in the past, you know. So, like I said,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: the people who are in the publicity and departments are
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: probably some of the nicest ones that I've ever gotten
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: to meet, which is which is rare and very nice.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: So I'm not playing favorites. They're all pretty awesome so far.
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I've even said a lot of a lot of
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: the book companies, the people that I deal with seem
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: pretty pretty damn col through emails.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's and it's not what it's not necessarily what
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: I expected. If I started to cover film, it might
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: be a little bit different. I don't know what the
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: response would be at that point. But then again, that's
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: you know, it's and I don't need to pivot towards
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: something else. But I will say this, because we use
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: the word a cult, I've been told by people that
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: that can have a negative connotation or stigma from people
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: who don't know it from the hidden history standpoint, And
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: there really are a lot of good movies that have
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: to do with our interest. It's either a horror film or.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: It's disaster film.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't see a positive movie very often about
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: this type of subject. So if you're into ceremonial magic
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: or you're you know, there's only so many times you
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: can make a movie about Merlin, you know, so you
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: don't see new stuff that often. And to be honest
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: with you, I'll do this one more time for long.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: That's why I genuinely hope that this becomes a movie,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: because it's probably one of the most positive like books
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: on ceremonial magic that I've seen that. I mean, there's
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: some scary scenes in it because you know, it's the
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: suspense in it, but you don't see too much of
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: that very often. And I don't know if I would
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: have the same experience if I had to review movies.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: Diana and I were talking should we do movie reviews
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: as well? Like?
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: How many?
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: But what are we going to review? There's very few
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: films that deal with the subject matter. I love the
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: Evil Dead series, but if I were to write it
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: in that hard.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, then you can get to your skin speaking book.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: This is but yeah, I mean, dude, I want to
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: get a prop of the Necronomicon. They sell it online.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: I got to have one of those from my office.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: That would be so cool at.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: Some point, at some point, yeah, right.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: What's sort of the cool stuff? You must have some
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: cool stuff. You said you had five books that they
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: sent you. How much of these look familiar to you.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: I'm jealous. I want to know what you got that
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: I didn't.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can go grab them real quick.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: Actually I can't see them until you're came.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I don't grab them and read and tell
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: you who they are.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: So I'm curious. I actually I'm curious to see what
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: they sent him, because I can tell you right now,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: if he's looking to line up interviews, usually the response
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: is really, really really positive. But then again, you also
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: get and I'm not going to name names, but there
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: are a few like celebrities that will come out with
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: a like a one shot of a book that aren't
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: necessarily into the interview process because they have to do
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: it all the time. So I'm not saying that that's
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: necessarily because they're difficult or anything like that, but I think.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: They just get tired.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I could understand that if you have
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: to do press junkins for films and shows and things
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: like that, the last thing you want to do is
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: necessarily do like another interview for the book that you're
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: I guess. But the occult writers are usually a little
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: bit easier to get a hold of.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all right, So I think the books I
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: got I got Taming Tigers and Butterfly Dreams.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: It sounds familiar.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: Who's the author on that dang Ming doom? Okay one
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: and forty four tables Terrorists? I can't even tell that's
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: not it doesn't look like their normal logo. I's I'm
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: actually wondering who sent me this. Yeah, it is red Will. Yeah,
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: that's okay. Yes. Then I have the Uranus neptune and Pludo,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: the one that you mentioned by it's really great.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're reviewing that one in the next issue. So,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: and Julia Sophia was one of the co authors is
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: one of the interviews for it.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: So I might actually ask you if you can get
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: it a contact with me for them, so I can
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: ask him to come on.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: If you don't mind me saying it on air, I
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: would be more than happy to do that. Julia is
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: really cool and she did a great interview that we
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: went back and forth with, so I can imagine that
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: to help with her outreach. That would probably make sense.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: Just beware she is in the UK, so there'd be
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: a time.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. Then they got a has ho orsc.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how to pronounce it. It's some
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: Navajo Nation Medicine, Women's Women's explan the Exploration of the
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: Four Bodies of Existence for Balance and self reclamation my
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: granddaughter crow. Then I got swamp sorcery folk that's for
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: That might be lullen folk magic from American Southern wetlands
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: by Mystic Delia.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: That might be an easy one for you to get
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: an interview for because we both know where we're located
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: in the US. Yeah, if that's a local somewhat localized author,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: that might be something that you might be able to.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: And then I got the big Book of Planetary Aspects
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: by Doctor Stormy Grace.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: That looked cool. I saw that.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I really wanted to get this person on too. Yeah,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: who's the who's the author on Doctor Stormy Grace?
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you might be able to get interviews for those, dude,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: M take a shot.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would eventually look for myself if I
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: have to.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: I would also recommend reaching out to some other publishers
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: as as well. Llewellyn is very hands on with their Oh.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I get Llewellyn Wiser and Inner Traditions and
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: Cross Crowd. Oh send me.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: People, that's the best. And with Inner Traditions also have
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: sent some really cool stuff as well. I didn't bring
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: it because they were very heavy in our last issue
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: with the reviews, but of one of their authors is
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: doing the feature for the next issue as well, so
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: oh you know, we did a review of that was
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: really cool. Uh. I did one on Inner alchemy. That
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: was Intertraditions. That was really great, and they send it
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: Richard Kazinski's book mind over Magic, which is a site
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: he you know, he's a ceremonial magician, but he's also uh,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: well the leem. I want to make sure I call
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: it correctly his practice, but he's also a psychologist, so
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: he wrote a book on the psychology that and the
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: benefits of the mindset, like the positive aspects of what
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: you can do for your own psychology if you practice
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: ceremonial magic. And it's academic, but it's also very very
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: readable and I have to double check, but I think
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: that was Inner Tradition sent that to us. I don't
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: want to get that wrong back and always correct it.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: But that book was fantastic and I think that that
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: was then anyway, Yeah, well they sent you really cool stuff.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: He was there anything else that you want, Judith? Was
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: there anything that you wanted to ask or anything specifically?
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: Not right now? I mean you answered all my questions.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Chad, thank.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: You for having me. I gotta be honest, the hour
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: actually went really fast. When I said it down, She's
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: an hour live. She's like, are you nervous? I'm like, well,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: I've watched the episodes. It seems pretty chill to just
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: talk with them. I think this is actually it should
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: go smooth. But the hour went really really.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: It's hour and minutes. Actually, yeah, yeah, I am.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: So appreciative for this. I hope I didn't talk your
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: ear off, even though I as a guest. Your questions
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: were great, and I hope I didn't sound like a
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: commercial that was not the who. But on that note,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: it is Modern Occultist dot com. Please, I will say
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: to please check it out though, because the occult Read
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: section we update about once a week with new books.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: And if you do visit the site, the magazine is free.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: You can click on it and read the issue for free.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: The subscription is also free. Hit subscribe. There's a subscribe page,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: and Modern Occultist News is our daily blog where we
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: have on this Day in Occult History and a different
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: featured book every day. Everything is free. I would love
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: if people check that out. But I also hope I
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: get to talk with you guys again at some point.
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: Hopefully you'll be on our podcast. Diana's the host, but
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: I'll chime in so I can say hi. It'll be
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of Fun.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I definitely would again. I'd like I am.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: Really really flattered by the invitation, Isaiah. I really can't
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: thank you enough for this. This is a blast and
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: I've been a fan for a.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: While, So no, thank you. That's awesome.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: I to talk to you. I'm gonna hang around for
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: you for a little bit because I got stuff on
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Cherry Oh really cool. Check this out way, Scarlet Imprints
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: and The Game of Saturn. Look at the bookmark they
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: sent me.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: Wow, not cool.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: This full print company. I love small presses there. Everything
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: is so bespoke. They send the coolest stuff that goes
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: along with it. A few of them and Anthema Published,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: they sent some really cool stuff to go along with
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: their books.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: I like Scarlet and Print. I got to get them
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: back on too. They're pretty cool.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: They get a lot of really cool Yeah, they.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: Get some really nice books too. They make some nice stuff.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: Well. I don't know if you're wrapping up or not,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: but I will say this very very very seriously, Judith,
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: it was such a pleasure getting to meet you. Thank
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: you so much for the cool conversation and for the
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: great questions. Nick. That goes for you as well.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: My friend.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: I know at some point when you move, we're gonna
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: hang out.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely, not for sure.
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: I want to keep the conversation going with you because
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: I do have recommendations for you. I think that a
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: lot of people, especially authors, would love the opportunity to
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: chat with you about their books because you're for a
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: great platform and you take the subject matter seriously, which
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: is what authors in general, and definitely authors of spiritual
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: subject matter are always looking for.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: Oh no, no, for sure, please y just under my way.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: I'm all about it.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for the awesome conversation. This means a lot.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: No, thank you. I really appreciate you coming on.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: Hopefully we'll get you on again in the future. Something
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: else promote the share. Yes, there you go. So sounds
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: a good plan.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: Judith, Uh what about yourself? You want to plug anything?
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: You want to?
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: Actually? Uh, well you have. You can find me on
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 3: x YouTube and on speaker as the Loon. I have
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: a couple of stuff. I'm working on the upload right now.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I just wrote it down. I'm gonna check
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: it out. Listen, don't disappear after this is done really quick.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 7: I want to make sure you both have my contact info,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 7: a book review, and the other one's gonna get recommendations
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 7: for me because tomorrow I can send some contact and
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 7: full for you that you're gonna need.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Nick nice, all right, listome sounds good? Sounds good? Yeah, no,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: for sure. Thank you for coming on again, Judith, Thank
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: of course, of course, and everybody in the chat that
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: is what's up. Thank you so much. And that's where
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: we go live. And uh yeah, until the next one.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: Everybody be well later.