Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Donald Trump and Apprentice in Wonderland

Transcript

Donald Trump and Apprentice in Wonderland · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: for it? This exclusive place that Dad has connections with.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: They have more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: It's Dunaidial.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Dunaidial. There's an accent on the E. Do you mean... Yes,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Lift?
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Please.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Are you going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: No.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else. Heather MacDonald
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: when you're on the go.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: her real life, Mr.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Saving Serial Data and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted and addicted.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: Listen in, listen up. Woo woo.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Heather MacDonald. Juicy Scoop. Hello, and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I'm excited for you guys to hear this interview. This
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: is return guest author Ramin Seytoudai. He was on previously
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: when we talked about his book, Ladies Who Punch, which
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: was all the behind the scenes juicy stories about The View. Well,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: now he's done it for The Apprentice. The book is
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Apprentice in Wonderland, and you guys are going to love it.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: It's very juicy and very interesting. Let's get into it.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: How are you? How are you?
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: I'm great, Heather. Thank you so much. You were so
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: kind to my first book and I'm really, really excited
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: to talk to you about this one.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Well, it was such a fun book, all the, and
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: if you haven't read that one, go get it. Cause
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: you guys will love it. It's just, so what made you,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: you also are, you know, right for variety and many other, um,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: you know, outlets, what made you decide to kind of
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: tackle the apprentice?
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: So you and I are both huge apprentice fans. We
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: love the show. And when I was in my twenties,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: I actually was covering the show at Newsweek. I was
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: a young reporter at Newsweek and I would watch the show.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: It was very aspirational and it taught a lot of
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: people about business or so it said it did. And
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: you could really imagine yourself being on the show competing,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: trying to win Donald Trump's approval. And at the time,
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: being a young reporter, I would always call Trump Tower
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: and Donald Trump loved doing press so much. He would
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: always get on the phone with me. He talked to me.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: He'd answer my questions. And so we kind of developed
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: a connection back then. And I always thought about the show,
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: you know, as he became president, as things changed in
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: our country, I always thought about the show and how
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: influential it was to Donald Trump's story, but also how
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: entertaining it was. It's a really good reality show.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm like you, you know, with the age of
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: my kids, this was one of the shows that one
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: of the first shows that we could kind of watch
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: like as a family and like that and Shark Tank.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: or like our favorite shows. And, you know, when it
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: first started out, it was regular people. And you get
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: into that with, what's his name? Rancic, who, you know,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Mary Julia.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: Bill Rancic, yes.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: And then I feel like, how many seasons was it
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: then just all celebrity? Because didn't it never went back
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: to regular people after a while?
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: It was seven regular and then seven celebrity. And they
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: actually needed the celebrities because it was kind of during
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: the era of Dancing with the Stars, and skating with celebrities.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: And there was all this reality, because celebrities used to
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: be very scared to do reality back in the early
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: days of reality. And then when it became okay for
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: celebrities to do reality, they needed to jumpstart The Apprentice.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: There was questions about the ratings. It wasn't doing that
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: well with the regular people. People had lost interest in
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: the show. And so when they surrounded Trump with all
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: these celebrities and had Joan and Melissa Rivers screaming about
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: how Melissa had been.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Fired- And that was that was the first time I
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: saw like what a mama bear Joan was with Melissa.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: And now I knew Melissa personally, but at the time
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I didn't. And I was like, oh, my God, this
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: is amazing. But I can totally see it as a mom, too,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: of why when they did this together, that was that
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: was so good.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And all of that, I talked to a lot
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: of producers and contestants. All of that was unscripted. It
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: was real. Joan Rivers was very upset that Melissa was
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: fired and lost her temper and stormed out of Trump
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: Tower with Melissa in solidarity. And so surrounding Donald Trump
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: with all these celebrities ended up making the show continue
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: to be successful for seven more seasons. And there's just
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: so many hilarious moments of Trump interacting in the boardroom
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: with these celebrities or celebrities trying to win his favor.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: And it was a winning formula. It really worked on
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: reality TV.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I remember, okay, so we always, you know, I loved
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: it too. And I was always like, God, if I
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: ever got on a show, I would rather do Apprentice
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: than Dancing with the Stars or certainly more than I'd
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: ever want to do like Amazing Race or like physically
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: like really taxing. But then I was auditioning for the
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: original talk and I was- Oh, you were?
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: So I like, it was, you know, I was on
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Chelsea Lately, but my agent was like, you know, there's
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: an all day testing thing for the talk. And it
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: actually fell on a day that like we were not
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: working or we were on a hiatus. So I was like, okay,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: legally and morally, like I'm not lying to anybody. We'll
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: see if I get this show. So it was like
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: an all day matching and in walks Sharon Osbourne and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: then in walks Holly Robinson-Pete. And they did not get
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: along on The Apprentice, at least from what I saw.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: They didn't get along.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Holy shit. Like what is going to happen here? But
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I remember Sharon Osbourne, I started asking all the questions
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and she was like, oh my God, you know, you
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: have to do your own hair and makeup unless you
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: hire someone to come meet you in New York at
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: 5 a.m. You're working all day long to put these
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: events together. And then I was also like, now, is
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: it true that you're really calling your friends for money
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: and favors like in real time? What is the answer
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: to that one? Because remember, they'd be like, we're putting
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: on an event for whatever. I'm going to call Toby Keith.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Or do you kind of like let them know prior, hey,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I'm going on this show in a month. I might
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: be calling you for a favor. What did you learn?
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: They would flag that they would call people. But in
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: order to get on the show, the celebrities were grilled
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: about who their friends were. And it was actually a
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: way to get more famous people on the show, either
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: on the phone or in a cameo. And they use
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: that as a criteria for deciding which celebrities would make
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: the cut and which ones wouldn't. So it was definitely
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: a criteria to get on the Celebrity Apprentice. And a
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: lot of celebrities wanted to be on the show because
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: it gave them such a publicity boost. People were watching
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: the show on Sunday nights on NBC. There were two
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: hour block episodes. The boardroom scenes were really long and
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: did well on social media. And so it was seen as.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: maybe a little bit more highbrow than some of the
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: other reality TV shows because it was aspirational, right? It
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: was like about business. It was about trying to succeed
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: in the boardroom. It was about trying to raise money
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: for charity. So it had kind of a smarter element
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: to it than say Dancing with the Stars, which was
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: just about how good you could dance with your ballroom dancer.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: That's a really great point too, because it's like whatever you...
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: whatever celebrity background, whatever made you a star, everybody, you know,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: wants to prove that they're not dumb when you're in
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: the arts. You're not just a dumb country singer. You're
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: not just a hot pinup girl, whatever. And so by
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: being like, okay, let me see if I can actually
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: pull off a great event or make a lot of money. You're,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: you're right. And I'm looking back and I don't really
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: remember anybody, even if there was drama where it like
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: being on the show hurt them, it only helped them
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: and only made them more known and had a, maybe
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: a memeable moment, but like, yeah, that is very true.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: Here's Morgan told me that when he did the show,
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: cause he was the winner of the first season of
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: Celebrity Apprentice, He was on America's Got Talent, right? But
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: people didn't know him in the same way. After he
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: won The Apprentice, he said people would recognize him on
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: the street. It helped him get Larry King's job on
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: CNN because they realized this Brit was a winner. He
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: had survived in Donald Trump's boardroom. And it gave him
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: a whole new level of fame that he didn't have
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: previously to being on the show.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: I also loved that he used his kids. As someone
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: now who has, you know, my son who you just saw,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: you know, works with me, especially he's got one year
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: left of college, but then after that, he will work
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: with us in a higher capacity. Having your kids like
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: be part of your business and the fact that they,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: you know, were good at that too, because they had
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: all gone to college, they'd all had learned. So I
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: liked that the kids were featured. And I remember- being
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: on Chelsea lately and she wasn't, she wasn't watching the show.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: And I was like pitching some sketch about the apprentice.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: And I, all of a sudden I just could do,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: you know, Ivanka's, you know, voice, which was always like,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: very like, thank you. We are in front of the
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Nabisco center. As you know, it is an amazing cracker.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: And today your challenge is to introduce the new red
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: pepper Nabisco cracker. Like it was hilarious. It's always stuff
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: like that. And, you know, I loved her style and
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: that she was so fashionable. So it was always fun
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: to have her. And then those board meeting moments were so, yeah,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: they were so fun. And then, you know, so there
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: was a time when there was, you know, so much
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: controversy going on in our country that you'd be like, oh,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: but remember how fun that was? And like the theme
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: song of like money, money, money. I mean, it's, I
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: wish they could, in doing your research, did they ever
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: try to bring it back in some capacity without him
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: and who would maybe be that new host?
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: Christmas shopping has already started in our house. My daughter
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: is so organized, already planning Christmas gifts from Macaulay. Hair
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: care for her aunt and a fab fragrance for her bestie.
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I'm
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: an early bird, buying one present a week from now
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: till Christmas, which makes budgeting less stressful. I can buy
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: in-store or online from macaulay.ie. For home delivery or free
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: click and collect.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: So easy.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: Gifts they'll cherish at prices you'll love.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Life is one long lesson of chaos. I'm heading to
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: the Emmys, and I have police complaints filed against me.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: what would you do if it was given back?
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Where did that need come from, where you thought that
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: He said, I have a work dad. I need a
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: home dad. What happens next? When I came in, he
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: started crying. Everybody in life encounters hardships.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: What defines them is not those hard moments that they
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: go through. It's about what happens next.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I decided to risk it all.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work.
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: Listen, Dara, I'm not going to pull punches.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: So one of the revelations of my book that I
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: learned in reporting the book was that when Donald Trump
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: ran for president, he actually wanted Ivanka to replace him.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: And he wanted Ivanka to run the boardroom. And he
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: wanted Eric and Don Jr. to be the judges sitting
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: by her side. And NBC thought the show needed to
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: go in a different direction. They were concerned because the
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: Trump family was entering into politics. And so they actually
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: brought in Arnold Schwarzenegger, who didn't do that well on
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: the show.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, I remember that. That was when they did it
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: in L.A., right? Oh yeah, that was just not it.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: His catchphrase was you're terminated. And also Martha Stewart tried
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: to do The Apprentice back in 2005. Remember when she
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: came out of jail?
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Is that when Bethany Frankel was on it?
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: That's how Bethany Frankel became famous. She was the runner
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: up that season. And so other people have tried to
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: do the show, but for whatever reason, Donald Trump is
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: the only person who successfully hosted the show. And I
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: think it's because he's so good at improv. He's so
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: good at the back and forth. He takes himself very
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: seriously on the show, but also really likes the contestants.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: And one of the, I have a whole chapter about
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: the Martha Stewart season and why it was such a
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: huge failure, but Martha wasn't actually that interested in the contestants.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: She wasn't that engaged in the contestants. She didn't really
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: understand like what the point of any of it was.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: And she also was wearing an ankle bracelet because she
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: was under house arrest. So she couldn't spend that much
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: time on the set. So she wasn't like Trump loved
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: hanging out with the contestants. He'd do all these challenges
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: and rewards and invite them over to dinner. But for Martha,
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: it was just a job. It wasn't her life. And
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: for Donald Trump, being the host of The Apprentice was
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: his life. He loved it. He thrived on it. It
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: was like the greatest gift for him.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Yes. I mean, it's true when you see some, and
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: it's the same thing with anybody like, you know, and
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: who really loves the job or not, especially like it's
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: a talk show or something. And you know, when someone's
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: just like cashing a check or their agent talked them
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: into doing it, whether it's a celebrity that gets a
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: podcast that doesn't last or, you know, you're like, oh,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I can see why that didn't last. You weren't into it.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Someone talked you into doing it. But with the Martha
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Stewart one, so it was only the one season and
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: that was the Bethany season, correct?
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It was the Bethany season and Bethany couldn't win
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: that season because she had dated the son of one
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: of the judges. And so they were worried it would
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: be scandalous if she ended up winning. So she ended
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: up being the runner up and then she ended up
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: making millions and millions of dollars. So they clearly picked
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: the wrong winner. But the other real legacy of the
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: Martha Stewart version was that Martha had her daughter Alexis on.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: And when Donald Trump saw that, he realized he'd been
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: toying with it, but he realized that this could really
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: be a stepping stone for his children because they hadn't
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: been in front of the cameras. They hadn't been famous.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: They were more private.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, so wait. Okay, so the apprentice started and in
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: the beginning, the first season, he didn't feature the kids?
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: No, it was George and Carolyn. Remember those two?
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: No.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: They were his advisors. Carolyn was a blonde in her
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: 30s that worked in the Trump organization. And George was
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: an older attorney that worked with Trump for years. And
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: they were just his employees that he picked at random.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: and said, you know, Mark Burnett came in, pitched the show.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: I need two people to be on the ground with
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: the contestants. I'm too busy. And so he brought in
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: these two associates and Carolyn actually became really, really famous
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: on the show. People really liked her. She was a
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: cool handed woman in the boardroom, a young woman that
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: kept up with Trump. But when he decided to bring
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Ivanka in, Carolyn got the ax and they fired her.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: And Ivanka then came in and replaced her.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, OK.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: So, okay, that's interesting. So that's how he kind of
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: got the idea of like, why am I not using
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: my own kids? Yeah. And I also remember, so then
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: when Bethany, there's like a clip going around. So Bethany
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: gets her own talk show and she has Martha come on.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And it's kind of a really funny thing because she's like,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you know, basically like, you didn't like me. And she's like, no,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't find you like it's like I
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: can't remember what it was like.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: No, it's insane. Martha's like, I didn't like you. And
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: that is the exact reason why Martha Stewart didn't succeed
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: as host of The Apprentice, because she didn't like the contestants.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: She wanted nothing to do with them. She thought she
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: was regal and above them. And for Trump, he was
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: smart in that he used the contestants to promote the
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: Trump brand. So he would bring on the contestants like
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Bill Rancic. And then they would go on a roadshow
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: together and they travel together. And Trump knew that every
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: time Bill did an interview, he could talk about how
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: great Trump was. And it was an extension of his brand.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: And it also allowed him to bring in more attention,
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: to bring in more advertising, to be at the center
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: of the media. So Trump, even though all these apprentice
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: winners were supposed to go work for Donald Trump, he
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: really employed them as publicists and spokespeople for the Trump organization.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: And they were supposed to be running like the company
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: as a president, but they were really there to like
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: bolster Trump's image.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: So you said there was seven seasons of regular people,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: seven seasons of celebrities. How many years? Because I guess
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: there was maybe two seasons a year. Like how many
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: years did this show go on for? And from what
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: to what?
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: It was from 2004 to 2015. Wow. And it was
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: in the early days of reality TV. And the one
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: other really interesting thing was that Trump's payment structure was
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: very different. So they paid him initially $ 25, 000 an episode
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: for season one. But Mark Burnett, who had been an
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: early adopter to reality TV, obviously created Survivor, had this
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: idea that he could get the money from product placement.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: So when they sold the show to NBC, he said,
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: you guys will give Donald Trump a low salary. But
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: if this becomes successful, we get to keep all the
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: product placement revenue. And at the time, Jeff Zucker was
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: running NBC and didn't really understand what that was worth.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: And so Mark Burnett and Donald Trump split every dollar
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: they made from every advertiser that came on the show.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: So car would come on, Lexus would come on, they
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: would pay them. Donald Trump said $ 5 million and Burnett
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: would take two and a half million and Trump would
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: take two and a half million. So he ended up
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: making $ 213 million on the apprentice for those 14 seasons,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: but it wasn't necessarily through his hosting salary. It was
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: through this backdoor product placement salary that he was getting.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: And now of course, networks are much sadder and they
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: would never give that money away. But Donald Trump being
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: sort of in the early days of reality TV was
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: able to cash in on on all those. That's why,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: like a lot of the episodes were you're talking about
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: like Nabisco or Avon.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it worked out perfectly.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: That's why they were so complimentary to all these brands,
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: because they were basically running an advertising company where they
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: were raking in the money, doing these tasks and bringing
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: in Mattel or bringing in Pepsi or bringing in whatever
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: brand it was. to have the contestants vie for that
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: brand's approval, but also to get the paychecks.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: What was some like juicy scoop that kind of, that
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I may have not heard of that you uncovered in
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: covering this subject?
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: So what was really interesting to me was the reason
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: why Celebrity Apprentice happened was because of the writer's strike
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: in 2008. And so NBC had actually canceled the show.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: So from 2004 and five and six, it was on
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: with the regular people and then it got canceled.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: They didn't announce it, but it was canceled. I talked
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: to the executive behind that and he told me it
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: was canceled. They were done with it. They were going
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: to move on. And then the writers went on strike
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: in 2008. And because they went on strike, NBC didn't
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: have any programming. And so that's when Ben Silverman, who
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: came in as the new head of the network, came
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: up with the idea to put celebrities in the boardroom
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: with Trump. And Trump actually was reluctant initially because Mark
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Burnett didn't think he'd want to share the spotlight with anyone.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: But they talked to him. They convinced him. They told
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: him it was basically like he'd be getting his own
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Sunday night movie, two hour blocks of The Apprentice. And
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: he was talked into it. And he wasn't initially enthusiastic
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: about the celebrities because he didn't know who a lot
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: of them were. But once he realized the show was
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: working and the ratings went back up, he became very,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: very excited.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: So go ahead.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: The other thing that I uncovered that was really interesting
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: is that Trump loved the boardroom. It was his favorite
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: part of the show. And so we kept asking the
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: producers to make the boardroom longer and longer. So initially,
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: even though on TV, it's like 10 minutes, 15 minutes,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: sometimes he would go on for four hours talking to
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: the contestants, holding court, being dramatic, asking questions. He just
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: really loved that opportunity to have improv. And he, he,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: One of the arguments of the book is that he
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: really is an actor. He was playing this part and
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: it kind of melded with his personality, but he loved
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: the boardroom scenes. And at one point he even wanted
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: to tell Mark Burnett to just make the show about
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: the boardroom, which didn't make any sense because you'd have
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: to have the contestants competing to win something. But the
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: boardrooms kept getting longer and longer and longer as they
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: were filming the show.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: And did he have any say in the final edits?
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: He was an executive producer. He didn't really get too
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: involved in the editing because he deferred to Mark Burnett.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: But he liked to say that he had final say
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: over the winners. And so sometimes the network would give
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: him notes and they'd say, fire this person, fire that person.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: And then he would go rogue in the boardroom and
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: just decide to fire someone else based on how they
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: answered his questions. Or he would play mind games with
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: them or quiz them or try to see how brutal
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: they were in terms of attacking their other contestants. And
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: he liked to test people to see if they would
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: deliver and perform for him.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Um, going back to when you said about the writer's strike,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I've mentioned this briefly on my show, but when I
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: started on Chelsea lately, um, I was there from the
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: beginning to the end, seven and a half years. And, um,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: only like a month or two in the writer's actor
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: strike happened. And, um, I was a member of the writers,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: the writers, and they had to come in legally and say,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: if you'd like to join your comrades on the picket,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: whatever you can, but you don't have to. And I,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: you know, and I'm like, well, no, I'm not going
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: to like, this is my, my job that provides for
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: my family. But we were the only game in town
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: because we were on cable and we were not writers guild.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: We were on E. And so Tonight Show, David Letterman,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: all those shows, everything went off and we had just started.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: And I really believe that a big part of the success,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: the luck of the timing of people getting used to
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: this different format of a late night show, which wasn't
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Chelsea just doing a long monologue of jokes. You would
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: see the monologue topical jokes among different people and improv-ing
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff. And it was a really unique
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: a unique thing that, that people really liked. And I
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: think that, you know, it is interesting. And I, I
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: remember when, um, the COVID stuff started and I called, um,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I was talking to two of the executive producers who
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: then produced David Spade show at the time, which is
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: very similar. I can't remember what it was called, but
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: it was David Spade show. And, um, And they hadn't
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: put me on because they were like, you're too familiar
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: and we don't want this to look like Chelsea Lately.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: So finally I got a date to go on and
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: then they shut down the show. Like the date was
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: literally like March 23rd and we shut down March 20th.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: But I remember, you know, they didn't know how long
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: they'd be shut down. But I remember I wrote them
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: and I was like, remember, this is what popped off
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Chelsea Lately. If there's any way that you guys could
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: get around and still film, you'll be the only game
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: in town. Well, of course you couldn't, you know, with
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: the government and stuff. But like, that is one of
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the reasons why I think like even my podcast kind
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: of popped off a lot is because a lot of
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: people were like, oh, we're told we can't work, then
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: we won't work. And I was like, well, I'm still working.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I'm going to still put out a show. And there
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: were a few podcasts that did that, that never missed
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: a beat. And so it is really kind of interesting
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: to looking back in entertainment, like when you're the only
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: game in town, like people get into it. And once
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: they're into it, they, they don't really leave.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: And if it hadn't been for the strike, the apprentice
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: probably would have been canceled. So you would not have
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: had this continuation of the show. Donald Trump at the
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: time was thinking about maybe hosting a talk show, which
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: I don't think would have necessarily played to strengths or
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: doing something different. He was trying to get on Fox business,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: maybe with his own show. But the show had run
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: its course. And if it wasn't for the strike, there
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: would have been no Celebrity Apprentice.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: So because it was reality, they were able to do it. Okay, cool. Now,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: what about the rumors of Aubrey O'Day having a romance
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: with Donald Trump Jr. that we've heard a lot about?
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: So I actually have some new information about that. I
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: interviewed Clay Aiken, who was a contestant on that season.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: And Clay talks about how Audrey was texting Don Jr.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: throughout the tasks and had his number. And therefore, he
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: always suspected that there was something going on. Then she
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: told him they were having an affair. And so she
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: confirmed it to him. And I actually talked to Donald
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: Trump about it. I asked him about it. And he
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: also said he'd heard those rumors, but he hadn't heard
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: the song that Audrey had written about Don Jr. So
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: she hasn't been that about it because she wrote a
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: whole song i don't have you heard the song when
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: did that come out it came out like a few
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: years ago it's a not a good song.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: I remember the way i first heard about it is
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: she was like doing a live podcast at like an
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: improv as a guest and that is where she basically
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: didn't say the name but people put two and two
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: together and.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Then in the song it's dtj so okay Donald Trump Jr.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: So it's like not discreet at all. It's like, who
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: could that possibly, who else has those initials? But so
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: on the podcast, she revealed that she was having an
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: affair with someone on the show.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, it was something like, she, she basically
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: said she worked on something and it was the boss's son. And,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: you know, there were, there were moments where like, it
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: was kind of hot the way she described it, not
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: that I'm for affairs, but like whatever. I just remember
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: seeing bits and pieces and people put it together based
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: on the timeline and her career and whatever. And she
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: was still like mom about it. But now she's like,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure she would share everything. And, and,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: you know, now he's divorced and engaged to someone else.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And so it's like, Yeah. Did that happen? Yeah, probably did,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: you know, and I don't think it's people care that
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: much about it, but that, that it was revealed that, yeah,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: you know, like any keep some people get together while
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: on the job, you know, whether it's a fake, fake
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: business or a TV show or whatever, you.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Know, Although as a judge, you probably shouldn't be doing
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: that with one of your contestants. Cause I wonder how
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: it's skewed as judging. You're supposed to be impartial if
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: you're there judging.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: How did she do in it? Did she still get fired?
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: She got fired, but they kept her on for a
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: very long time. She actually ended up becoming one of
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: the breakout stars that season because there was so much
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: drama surrounding her. So even though Donald Trump would always
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: say he had the final say, they did reward contestants
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: who created a lot of drama and were perceived as
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: being good for ratings. So she cried and she would
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: get into fights and she and Arsenio Hall didn't get along.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: And there was always something going on with her, but
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: she created great reality TV and it was something the
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: producers milked for ratings.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, you know, as far as like winning
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: the challenges and stuff, how much of that was really
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: real and how much was we're going to let them
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: win because their team has, you know, the people that
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: were more interesting in that are, you know, charting better
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: with fans that are more, you know, you're more attracted
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: to watching them.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: So the challenges are real because there was always a
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: monetary value attached to them or some sort of way
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: in which you judge who the winner was. There was
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: one season where Later on, and I talked to one
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: of the contestants issues in a non-celebrity version of the
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: show where they moved to Los Angeles for a season
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: because they were really hurting with the ratings. And they
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: asked her to throw a competition and she actually threw
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: it and they said they would protect her. And then
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump fired this contestant. And they had to come
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: back and offer her like to make amends for that,
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: because according to FCC guidelines, you're not allowed to do that.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: You can't fix a reality show. That's illegal. They could,
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: they could accrue fines or she could have sued them.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: So they went back and fixed that. But for the
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: most part.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Wait, now you can't say who that is.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Her name was Jen Hoffman. Oh, okay. And she's not
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: a known contestant. She was one of the regular people.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: But she talked to me for this book and she
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: explained how disorienting it was for her because she was
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: basically promised immunity. And then when she threw the competition
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: on purpose, they got rid of her because Donald Trump
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: hadn't been told that this deal had been struck by
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: one of the producers.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. But do you think with the celebrities, that
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: didn't matter as much, even if it was maybe not
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: completely authentic?
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Probably not, but I don't think they were throwing the competitions.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I think that when Mark Burnett created the show and
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: on Survivor 2, there's been some contestants who have speculated
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: that the producers favored contestants. And that I think is true,
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: but I don't think that they would throw the results.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: But there was always the ability to... when a team lost,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: then choose the person on that team who is the
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: least interesting for TV to fire. So they could still
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: game it by firing the person. Maybe let's say they
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: lost the challenge and it was because Dennis Rodman was
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: drunk the first season, right? He was dealing with sobriety.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump told me they wouldn't fire Dennis Rodman because
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: he was such good TV. He'd fire someone else to
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: the point that it was, you know, people were like
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: incredulous about it. They're like, how can you not get
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: rid of him? He's not even sober. And Donald Trump
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: would Keep him around for the ratings.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: And also, the winner, now I'm remembering it, if they
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: did the commercial for Nabisco's new cracker, then the Nabisco
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: people would kind of decide which commercial was better. So,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: But I don't think they were fixing that. I think
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: that was real. The Nabisco people.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Now I'm looking back thinking, oh, okay,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: it probably wasn't, you know, at all. So let's get
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: into what was the story of Joan Rivers and the
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: poker player and Melissa? Because I can't remember. I just
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: remember Melissa had like a broken leg or a boot on.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: And it was like hobbling out and her mom freaking out.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: And it's like, just remind us of that like iconic scene.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So Annie Duke was the poker player and she,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: in the boardroom, they ganged up on Melissa and they
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: basically convinced Donald Trump to fire Melissa. And Joan was
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: so upset that she thought that she was betrayed because
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: they got rid of her daughter. And so she flipped
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: out and then Melissa was screaming and then Joan was screaming.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: And so on TV and Donald Trump and I talked
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: about this, he still remember that boardroom on TV, like
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: the entire boardroom was shaking because Melissa was outside in
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: the lobby with her crutch because she had hurt her
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: leg screaming about how she was leaving and she wasn't
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: going to do her exit interview. And then Joan joined
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: in and she left the apartment because they were all
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: living in this apartment or staying in this apartment. She
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: left the apartment and came down and they both left together.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: So it was a very dramatic moment. And again, it
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: wasn't scripted. That just is how it unraveled because Joan
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: was such a mama bear and so protective of her daughter.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: But it was a moment that really cemented the celebrity
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: edition of the series because it was something that everyone
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: talked about. And we're still talking about it all these
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: years later. And Joan credited the show with really giving
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: her a career resurgence. It helped her get Fashion Police.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: It helped her work, continue to work. And she talks
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: about it in her documentary. It was a real booster
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: career because when you won the Celebrity Apprentice, people then
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: thought you were really popular. There was a whole new
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: wave of audiences, younger audiences watched the show and it
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: really allowed her to have another act in her career.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's right. She won.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: She beat the poker player. She beat the poker player. Yeah.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: And they do a big, they did a big reveal
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: with like a live audience, right? Just like they used
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: to do on Survivor, which I don't really watch anymore,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: so I don't know if they still do that. But
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I remember they would do that. And then they would
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: show it look like a campfire and then it would
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: be the– I actually like chills remembering. It was so good.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: It's like a bummer that we don't have something like
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: that where– because we have so many choices of things
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: to watch.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah. There's a lot of options. So then there's not
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: the one thing that all of America tuned into. But
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: back then, the entire country would watch Survivor, the Survivor
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: finale to see Richard Hatch become the first winner or
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: the entire country watched Bill Rancic defeat Kwame Jackson and
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: become the first real apprentice winner and get to work
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: for Donald Trump and get to pick which project. And yes,
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: it was live because they were scared it would leak
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: if they taped it. And there was an audience that
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: saw the winner. They were worried that it would leak
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: to the press, which it probably would have.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: And didn't Joan Rivers and Donald Trump have a, did
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: they ever have like a real friendship prior to her
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: being on The Apprentice?
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: They were both New Yorkers and they both were in
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: the same circles, but they weren't, The Apprentice really brought
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: them together. And then Joan continued on the show. She
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: would fill in as a guest judge. And Eric Trump
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: told me, actually, he really loved guest hosting with Joan
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: because she would come in and they had really good
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: chemistry and NBC liked their chemistry together. And Eric told
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: me that Joan reminded him a great deal of his mom, Ivana.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: And they had the same brash New York sensibility. And
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: he thinks that's the producers really like the two of
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: them together because they connected.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: So you did all these interviews with all these people.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Did anybody not want to talk to you about it?
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Yes, I couldn't get Ivanka to talk to me. She
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: thought about it. We went back and forth. But she
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: in the end decided she didn't want to talk to me.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: And then some of the winners like Bill Rancic, I'd
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: interviewed before when I was at Newsweek, but he decided
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: not to talk for the book because I think it's
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: been so challenging for them in terms of like wading
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: through like the political situation with Donald Trump becoming president.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: And they don't want to necessarily say anything about him
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: that's negative. One of the interesting things was that a
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: lot of the contestants, even though they weren't politically aligned
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: with Trump, still said how much they liked him and
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: how much they enjoyed being on the show with him.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: And I think this book also really unlocks how Trump
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: became popular and why a lot of people still like
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: him because he was so funny on the show. And
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: he also was so attentive to the contestants. Even when
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: the cameras weren't rolling, he would bring them into his
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: office and he would try to mentor them and talk
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: to them and There was a few cases where he
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: crossed the line. I write about that in the book.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: But for the most part, he did try to like
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: be a presence in these contestants lives because he knew
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: that when the contestants did press or when they became
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: famous or when they went out, it was all an
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: extension of the Trump brand.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: When you say cross the line, which you'll have to
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: read the book to find out, do you mean like
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: flirty or?
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Flirty.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: There was one contestant. Her name was Jennifer Murphy. He
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: they they became very close friends and he kissed her
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: in the elevator outside his office, according to her. Um, uh,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: and then they continue to have this flirtation over the years.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: There was another contestant. Her name was Christie from the
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: first season, and he also found her very attractive and
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: would tell her that. And he told her at one
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: point that if he could choose one of the contestants
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: to marry, he would choose her as his wife. But
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: this wasn't The Bachelor. This was The Apprentice. So it
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: was like a kind of a weird, creepy thing to say.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: But she actually told me she didn't mind it. She
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: thought he was just trying to be funny. And she
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: and her fiance were in his office talking when he
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: said it. But he did look at all the contestants
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: as extensions of him and part of his brand. And
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: one of the reasons why he got so close was
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: that he thought it would just all help his business.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: And what about the cute girl that they would have
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: different girls all the time be the fake receptionist or
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: real receptionist? How did those girls get chosen?
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: That was Donald Trump's real receptionist. So a lot of
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: the people on the show were actually people, I think
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: that was Rona, right? We're talking about Rona.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I don't remember. I just remember like, maybe there were
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: maybe a few different throughout the year. And there was
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: always like an attractive... You know, put together girl like
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: under 30 is what I recall, but I can't remember
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: like what they look like, but just kind of see
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: just like put together. Nice.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: She really worked for Donald Trump. So there wasn't a
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: lot of creating a world that wasn't the world that
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump inhabited. So the cameras really went into the
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: Trump Organization. The contestants, they built this living space for
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: the contestants in Trump Tower where they would live on
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: a different floor and then they would get the call
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: to go and compete. And so it was all based
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: within the Trump Organization. Mark Burnett paid Donald Trump money
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: to rent out office space and they shot it in
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: his office, which is also why he liked the show
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: so much, because it was very convenient for him.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Well, that's true.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: So where is Donald and Mark Burnett today? Are they
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: still friendly or what did you find there?
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: They are really friendly. Mark Burnett doesn't like to publicly
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: talk about Donald Trump because he gets so much backlash
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: and he wants to be accepted by Hollywood, but he
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: also wants to be accepted by Donald Trump. So he
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: hasn't been public about their closeness, but they are still
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: very close.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: So did he not participate in the book?
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: He's in the book, but he didn't do an interview.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: So you'll see how I... I had interactions with him
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: and they're described in the book, but he's not interviewed
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: in the book. But I was able to get some
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: information about what he thought and how he felt. And
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: he actually told Donald Trump that he didn't think that
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump would have been elected president if it wasn't
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: for The Apprentice. He thinks the show really made him
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: popular and made millions of Americans like him and feel
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: like they got to know him because of the character
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: he played on the show.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: And I also think it's interesting when you're going back
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: to Bill Rancic. Like I can see why in this
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: day and age when you're a public figure and social
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: media plays such a big role in all of our
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: lives where you are like, I can't win here. And
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I just don't want the chatter because it can be
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: so anxiety driven, you know, if all of a sudden
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: you do an interview and it's just like, blah, blah, blah.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: And you don't have the ability to like turn it off.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: And so you're just like, no, I just would rather
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: not say anything than say something, have it be taken
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: out of context, make a big, on a slow news day,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: make a thing. So, I mean, is that what you
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: think happened with some people that may have turned it down?
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: I think that they are so used to being asked
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: about Donald Trump as a political figure and as president
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: of the United States that they don't want to wade
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: into that. But I did have people initially say no,
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: and then they would change their mind and talk to
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: me about the show because it was a very influential show.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: But I think for Bill- It was about just not
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: saying anything that would create a social media firestorm, because
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: I think that he truthfully still likes Donald Trump and
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: appreciates the fact that he got to work for Donald Trump.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: I think it was a positive experience for him.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I thoroughly enjoyed talking to you. I've read some
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: of it. I'm going to finish it. I'm going to
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: do some travel and I'm excited to read it. This
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: is the book.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Is it currently out right now?
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: It's currently out in bookstores. It just made the New
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: York Times bestseller list. I'm very very excited and proud
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: of that. And I really want this to be a
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: fun read where I got into Donald Trump's head, but
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: also explained how important this show was in our culture
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: and how it really changed everything for the United States
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: of America.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: And how much time did he spend with you in
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: your interviews for this book?
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: I interviewed him six times over two and a half years. Um,
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: so we watched clips of the apprentice together. We watched
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: the theme song together. Oh my God.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: You could have done a, you could have done a
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: rewatch podcast with Donald Trump. Hey, if it doesn't work out,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: if it doesn't work out, that'll be his next thing. Yeah.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: Go on.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: We watched the theme song. He watched the three times
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: he fired Omarosa and talked about his decision to bring
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Omarosa to the white house.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, so that's in there too. Cause I still don't
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: understand that whole thing.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: He said that a lot of things he does in life,
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: he does as an experiment. And so he knew, according
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: to him, he said he knew that Rosa, things wouldn't
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: end well. But he thought he'd give her a chance
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: and thought it was an interesting experiment. But it also
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: goes into Donald Trump's psyche, where he is driven by ratings.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: He loves ratings. He wants ratings. And so he'll often
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: make decisions, even as President of the United States or
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: made decisions as President of the United States that he
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: thought would intrigue the public. And I think by bringing
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: Omarosa to the White House, it was something that he
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: could do that could get people engaged into his administration
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: because they knew were on The Apprentice. And he is really,
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: really proud of The Apprentice still. Eric Trump told me
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: that they hope it's a big part of their father's legacy.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: People look at the totality of his career, but also
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: this reality TV show he was on. And they do
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: think it was a stepping stone for him to become
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: a national figure that everyone in the United States of
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: America knows, because back before the show, he was a
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: local figure and everyone in New York knew him. But
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: it's not necessarily true that people in middle America knew
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: him that well or knew his family that well. And
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: Melania was his girlfriend at the time. And then when
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: they got married because of the show and the spotlight
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: of the show, she was on the cover of Vogue
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: and she then became famous for her own right. So
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: it really allowed him to become a superstar artist. in
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: terms of like the tabloids, in terms of coverage, in
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: terms of People Magazine. And people were very interested in
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: him and his family.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I'm curious if you touched upon being that Baron is
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: now 18 and you didn't watch it when he was little.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Was there any conversation about Baron or no?
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: He talked a little bit about Baron getting tall, I think,
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: in one of our conversations. But there wasn't a lot
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: about Baron because he wasn't there when The Apprentice was happening. Right.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: But he's very proud. He's very proud. And this is
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: something that regardless of your political affiliation, he's very proud
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: of his kids. He talks about them all with great affection.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: I did ask him who was the best on the
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: show and he said he wouldn't answer that, but then
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: basically said it was Ivanka. So Ivanka I do think
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: is still the favorite, but he is very proud of
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: his kids. And he also has this sort of resentment
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: towards other nepo babies because I think he feels like
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: other children of famous people maybe didn't have to work
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: for the opportunities but he in his head thinks that
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: his kids are you know have worked to get where
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: they to get where they're.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: At very interesting well i thoroughly enjoyed talking to you
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: i think i'm so excited for this book i think
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: it'll be fun a fun and really interesting read like
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: you said no matter where you stand on something it's
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: just it's a better understanding of of somewhat, you know,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: our former president who knows what will happen. And, um,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm excited to, to read it. And, you know,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: I remember, um, I met Donald Trump.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, you did.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: And it was, it was, and it's like, I have
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the photo and because of everything, I'm like, we can
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: never show this photo, but now I'm like, fuck it.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you what happened. My son who's
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: 21 now, He, there was something going on with where
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: he was playing golf at our little country club. And
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: they were going to go to the Donald Trump one
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: that was in like a Palos Verdes for the junior
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: PGA something. Okay. And so we didn't even know he
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: was going to be there. So we go there and
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: he's there. And this is before he ran for president.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: This is just apprentice, but about a year before, um,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking this would be like 2015. And, and so
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: they got Trump a shirt that says Trump on the back.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: And because my son was kind of like the tallest
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: kid there, they put him next to him. So there's,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: he's like holding the shirt with him. And, and then
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, you know, then, then I, we played
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: golf and I saw him and I was like, we love,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: we're big apprentice fans. And he was, you know, very nice.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: That was it. That was it. But like, Over the years,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I come across this photo and I'm like,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: oh my God, you know, like people are so insane
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: that if I was ever to share that photo, they
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: would misinterpret the story behind it, which was just like
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: a really innocent, nice story. And it's like, and also like,
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: you know, who cares what it is? You know, it's
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: just like, you know, it's, you would be doing, even
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: you'd be, you know, doing the same thing if you
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: had that opportunity to see the star or the apprentice,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: but it's like, Yeah.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: One of the things about this book, I think people
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: always talk about reality TV and they look down on it.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: But this book also talks about how influential reality TV
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: is in our culture. Right. And it's changed the way
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: in which we regard people and perception. And we believe
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: that what we see on reality TV is real. And
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: so I go in and I try to explore what
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: was real and what wasn't real. But this was really
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: one of the early adapters of reality TV, and it
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: was one of the early highbrow shows in reality TV. Right.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: It wasn't Fear Factor where you had to eat bugs
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: or whatever. And I talk about sort of how they
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: cast all the contestants and how they would do a
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: nationwide search. And everyone was so excited for the opportunity
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: to be on a reality show because they thought it
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: would change their life. And it did in some cases.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: that first season, they all lived together in a hotel.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: When they were fired, they lived together in a hotel.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: They weren't allowed to go back home because they didn't
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: want to spoil the surprise. And so they took away
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: their wallets. They took away their phones. These contestants were
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: roaming around New York City, going to shows. The producers
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: would pay for it. But it's an interesting look at
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: the way in which reality TV is made. And I
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: think that is also was one of the fulfilling parts
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: about working on this book. But yes, Donald Trump now,
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: because he is president of the United States, You can't
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: post a picture of him because people will see that
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: as a political endorsement. But when he was on The Apprentice,
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: he was widely beloved. Everyone in America thought he was great. Mostly,
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: mostly everyone in America. There were a few people that didn't,
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: but he was broadly loved.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: With your other book, The View and This, have you
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: been approached to have this be a scripted movie or series,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: either of the books?
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: So this one... It's too early for that. But The View,
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: there have been talks about making a descriptive series. And
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: I do hope it happens because I think it would
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: be such an amazing thing. And I would be so
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: excited just even the casting. We've talked about it sort
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: of informally with some producers. Like I think even casting
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: all the ladies of The View would be really.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Really exciting. Can you tell us what you would like?
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: So.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: Well, yes.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: I cast stuff all the time.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: You dream cast people. So for Rosie O'Donnell, my dream
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: would be for Lena Dunham to play Rosie O'Donnell, because
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: I think Lena Dunham would channel Rosie and embody her.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: And I know she's not acting, she's directing now, but
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: I think she would be the best possible Rosie. She'd
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: be incredible.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: Um, I think Lizzo could play Star Jones. Totally. That
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: would be amazing. In the early sort of days of
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: working on this book, everyone would be like, you should
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: have Bette Midler play Joy. But Joy was also on
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: that show for so long that I think you'd have
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: to maybe find someone else and Bette Midler isn't acting
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: these days. But I think there just would be, it
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: would be just so fun. And then for Barbara.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Wait, who's Joy though?
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: Who could play Joy?
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who do you think Joy is? Yeah, I mean,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: if you're going back like 15, 20 years, by the way,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Joy is like ageless, by the way. She's looked the
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: same for 30 years.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: Who would you want to play? Who would you want
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: to play?
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think. Jill Zara? No, just kidding.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: A redhead in New York. That's a good one. I
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: think a lot of really good actresses could pull that off.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean, it could even, you know, it
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: could be like a really fun challenge because when Julianne
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Moore was Sarah Palin, like somebody that you wouldn't expect
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: because seeing her completely morph into somebody would be really
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: like fun to watch.
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to go for.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Like a completely not, you know, not her... you know,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: someone who has her voice, someone that would take on
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: the voice. That's such a good actress that would embody it.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: And we'd forget like you did with the Sarah Palin,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: you know, I was making, I.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: Was going to make a joke and say, so Nicole
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: Kidman with lots of prosthetics is joy. We would need,
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: we would need someone. Yeah. Someone who's also could be
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: comedic and funny, I think would be, or someone who
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: was a standup would be good. Yeah. Yeah. And then
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: of course, Barbara, I think is the role. And, you know,
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: I think Meryl Streep could play Barbara, but there's like
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: a hundred percent, so many actresses who could play Barbara.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: And so I'm really hoping it happens because I think
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: it would be really, really exciting.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: And, um, we and the Juicy Scoopers are going to
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: manifest that because I would love to see that. I
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: would love it. Well, thank you so much. And do
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: you have Instagram where people can follow you? What's your handle?
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: Yes. My Instagram handle is just my name, Ramin, at
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Ramin Statuta. And I'm also on social media with that handle.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much. Thank you for sending me
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: the book. I appreciate it. And I'm excited for all
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: of your success.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Love talking to you as always.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: Thanks. Well, you guys, thanks so much. Remember to go
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: to heathermcdonald.net for all of the live shows, San Diego,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: July 27th, and so many others. And of course, my Patreon, heathermcdonald.net. Thanks.
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: From morning swims in Sandy Cove to coffee in Ranala
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: or walks along Sandy Mount Strand. At a certain point,
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: where you live shapes how you live. Maybe you want
• 49:59
  Speaker 5: more space, a shorter commute, or simply somewhere that feels
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: more like where you are now. On daft.ie, you can
• 50:06
  Speaker 5: explore the most sought-after homes for sale across South Dublin.
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: When you're ready for the next chapter, start with Ireland's
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: number one property platform. daft.ie