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Curiosity And Courage Predict Who Will Lead Next · The Leader Mentality

• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Leader Mentality Show with Rob Clemens.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: We are on a great episode today because after a slew of great guests, I was like, we need to get this Nick DStefano guy back on.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Who's that?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Some ne'er do well, as they say.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds about right.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, but we got Nick back with us.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we've had some great guests uh since the last time you were on the show, Nick.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: We we've had um, you know, some young entrepreneurs, uh, we've had some uh authors on the show, we've had leaders of foundations like Echo and Myrtle Beach.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh Joey Smoke was on here.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was just really such a great collection from the community.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but I love it when we do this, Nick, because today we get to talk about more leadership principles.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Today, just for those listening at home, we're gonna be talking about how to spot and develop future leaders.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think this is a goal of every business in America.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a goal of every I mean anywhere you are, whatever you're doing, you want to find those future leaders, right?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so today we're gonna talk about how to do that.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: But with that little teaser, you know, you've been gone for a minute, man.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Just a minute.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I went on like a sabbatical from the podcast, which is funny that I say sabbatical because they do a lot of sabbaticals where I actually am now.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, what where did you end up?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I know.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Spoiler.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I I uh I I moved on from my position at McLeod full-time, and I'm I'm actually back where I got my roots in South Carolina.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I am back at Coastal Carolina University, Sean's Up.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Shant's up, baby.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm uh I'm a full-time uh lecturer.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Although I do very little lecturing because that's not my style, you know that.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: But my my official title is a lecturer in the Wall College of Business, specifically within the management and decision sciences department.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got we've got faculty on our team that are doing all things management leadership, and then there's people that are doing like operations management, supply chain management, decision analysis.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's fascinating, and I'm absolutely loving it.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: We were recording this on day two of the fall semester.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I had my first day of classes yesterday, four classes.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I had a wonderful 8 a.m.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: on the first day of classes for college students.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: They were so wide awake and ready to go.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: They were.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them were, some of them were not, but the most of them were actually pretty excited.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was really cool.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder about this.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I like I you know, I wonder what students are like.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And before we get into any of this show, I'm gonna talk about this stuff, man, because I, you know, I've never been a teacher.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I've always said I I love I love teaching, but I would never be a teacher.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not and and some of it comes down to like I always wonder, are the students engaged?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do if they're not engaged?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: What you know, what are your tricks?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: But but you're saying on day one, they were books open, they had an apple in your front desk.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they don't have books anymore.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's all it's all online and it's all no, but no, but they were engaged.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Spoil there's no books in the library either.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Spoil or I'm old.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh anyway, but but no, okay, so so they're on their iPads, or right.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, they but legitimately, I think most of the students had at least a laptop in front of them.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Which is fair.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna need it.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, Nick.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, please.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: They should be on holograms by now.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know like I'm gonna This is funny, too, because the last episode we did was about generations, and the generation of college students now is very different than when you went to school and I went to school.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what we're doing, even from when you were at, because you went to coastal, right?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: I went to coastal, man.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: So when you graduated coastal, right, there was still apples and toast books and not really abacuses.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, full full full disclosure, uh, there were no uh apples involved.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Although it sounds funny, uh, but we did have a a chill like when we're uh taking our notes, there was a chisel and a stone.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's uh in I don't know what what course would that even be.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: That would be under biblical studies.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Something like that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, but but um you know I think it's really cool because you made this transition in your career um and and you did something that you're passionate about, because I know you're passionate about it.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but on that day one, you you walk into the school, and this is a new thing, um at least in this capacity.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh tell me the nerves that are running through your stomach because Oh, absolutely.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, before you get into it, look you listeners at home, I love to do this with you.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: We've all had a new job at some time or gone to a new school for the first time, and you walk it, you open that door, and you and you know how you felt at that time.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let's bring you into the Nick D Stefano world.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: What does it feel like?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and what was day one?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So day one, you can ask my wife.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: She said, Well, for me, when I get nervous about something, she says sometimes that I will um go into like Diva DiStefano mode in the sense, and here so here's what I mean.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is kind of how I feel.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I will um I like to process things externally.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love talking through things, I love you know, figuring out where someone is, how I feel, how you might feel, and and and what I need to do.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so you probably in the couple days leading up to classes starting, I must have been just asking her random questions, like, do you think I should do this?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or what about this?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: What she's like, you're just trust yourself.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like you were hired to do this for a reason.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it just I think for me having that reminder was was helpful.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Did I still walk in on day one and go, okay, like do I talk in the first like five minutes before eight o'clock hits when it's 7 55 and they're all just like sitting there staring at the staring at me?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I so you know, me is I'm gonna be myself and be and be silly.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I know that they're all feeling the same thing I'm feeling.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: You're silly.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have like a spinning bow tie on that one?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: He's the cold teacher.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: No spinning bow ties.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I'm I'm gonna tell them right off the bat, like, y'all, you don't have to awkwardly sit here and stare at me.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, tell someone that you don't turn to someone next to you and say hi, like introduce yourself.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you know the person next to you, stop like because you know, it's that awkward moment where there's students already in the classroom and you walk in and they're talking, and then it's just like oh yeah, everyone stops.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, y'all, like, hi, I'm a I'm a person too.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: You could talk, like it's okay.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, the nerves had to be owned and be honest.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll I can tell you about some of the stuff I did day one, even in terms of trying to create engagement, because I I tried to be different, and that's just who I am.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I swear to God, you said the nerves must be owned, but I heard the nerds must be owned.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, I thought you were going to be able to do it.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: The nerds must be owned immediately.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like NERBs.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, who's own them?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, no, I agree with you.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you you just said something funny though.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: You said um teachers are people too, and it and it's funny because I love that you're talking about this and any coastal students out there.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the thing is, is that we we kind of forget that as students.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we're looking at that teacher, like, oh man, but at the end of the day, you're like the day before, you're like, honey, do I wear this tie or this tie?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, legitimately, like that's the stuff I was worried about.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And like, should I say these things as like I'm telling them about who I am?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want them to know I'm credible.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: So legitimately, this is one of the things I did first day.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so I told them a little bit about myself, and then you know, the teacher writes their name on the board.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote my name on the board, and then I wrote my Instagram handle, and I said, I'm giving you four minutes to pull your phone out and to literally Google me and research me on your own.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can figure out anything you want to know about me, and then I'm gonna give you another four minutes.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: You can ask me whatever else you want to know.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really cool to see them be curious, and that's what I want, and all of my students, I want them to be curious, and I think uh it ties into how do we find and develop future leaders?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: We need people who are curious.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, who are the people on your teams that ask great questions, who wonder, who want to know more?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the people who probably become better leaders.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the questions they asked were fascinating.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite ones, one of the students said to me, What why are you giving us a chance to like look you up?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like usually my teachers don't want us to know about them.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I said what I just told you.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a person too, right?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have things that matter to me just like you do.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: So why am I gonna hide that from you?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm gonna be really that's cool, man.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was a really cool moment.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I like that you didn't go in on day one and try to like start using their lingo like most teachers are gonna tell you this, but that's cap.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's even pretty mid.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you start, yeah, if you start doing that, they're like, Well, we're done with you now, sir.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, I know that I can't do that.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not even gonna try.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be me and that's it.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Be you, man.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I guess that's a great place for us to jump in, man.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and and well done, by the way.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, everybody knows, like you said, I'm a coastal grad, so I just love seeing um where students are.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love thinking about the guys and gals I went to school with back in the day and what they're doing and how we've all thrived and what the future generation is gonna do to thrive.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when we were talking about coming in here and doing the you know, how to spot and develop future leaders, and you said some of it was the great questions you were hearing.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think that's a great starting point.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, g can you can you give me an example though?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe whether it was in school or not, what do you mean by a great question?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a gr you know, there's the old adage, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's no such thing as a stupid question, right?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: You hear teachers say, like, ask me whatever you're thinking.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I also think that if you're gonna develop future leaders, spot future leaders, you have to find the people who are naturally curious, who are comfortable wondering, and it doesn't have to be a great question as much as it just needs to be the desire, the kind of hunger for learning and wanting to grow.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that's just asking the question.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: But if people don't feel comfortable to ask the question, you got to create space as the leader to say, Hey, you know, we're doing this project.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know how you feel about it.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me, tell me what you what you want to know more about.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna, if they're not comfortable asking the question, they're gonna at least in that moment be open to saying, I don't know about this, can you tell me that?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um It's not always the best question as much as just the desire to actually grow in Latin.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: I want to kind of jump in and and um make sure that I'm being clear on this because there's introverts and there's extroverts.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And both of them can be leaders.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the challenge I have for the introverts, and maybe a challenge for the extroverts, okay?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if you're an introvert and you go to class, you may find it very uh enjoyable to sit there and write notes and listen.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And raising your hand and asking a question is not easy.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do the thing that's not easy.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do it, just do it because what you're saying, Nick, is so true.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, when I'm looking at a group of people and we talk about what kinds of questions are they asking, you know what a question shows me a lot of times?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: It shows me preparation.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: It shows me like, you know, how much thought you put into it, it shows me the depth of your character.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if if I say, hey, what's the most important thing to you about working at this company?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you say, Well, how much money do you guys pay?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: That shows a very lack of depth in what you're thinking.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: But if you ask me something like, Well, I I find your community involvement very um inspiring to me, and I want to be a part of that, um, how did you guys be uh come up with this mission statement?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like to me, that's a it shows a depth and an interest that you don't get.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So when we're talking about future leaders, I I know it's hard for some people to ask the question, but ask the question.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: And to ask the question, what you're saying is you have to be prepared, you have to put in the work, but you also have to I love what you said do the hard thing or do the uncomfortable thing.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do the do the not the thing that's not easy.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it goes the other way too for because I I know you and I both have experience.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be curious if you know anyone or if it's ever happened to you, where the outgoing extroverted leader also could do the hard thing and maybe step back.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: So one of my my one of my expectations in in courses with students and even when I've you know I've supervised individuals in the past is in different rooms in the classroom, some of you are gonna need to step up and some of you are gonna need to step back.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're the person that runs their mouth all day long and doesn't know how to shut up, you might need to step back.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Have you have you ever had that experience where you you know the extroverted person is not always a good future leader because they're two out there.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you remember when I just said I had a challenge for introverts and I had a challenge for extroverts?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: My challenge for the extrovert is exactly that.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh for an extrovert, a lot of times it it's it's in your nature maybe to go out and and say what you know and say what you think.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um, my challenge for the extrovert is to do exactly that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's to take a step back and not just blurt the thing that comes to your mind immediately, um, but rather ask a more thought-provoking version.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so while it might be the one person who's got the really great passionate question, but they're they're really not into talking about it.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: But now you got the other person who wants to talk all the time, but they're just spitting out whatever comes to their mind.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I believe that uh you said it best, an extrovert who's willing to take the step back and and quiet their mouth and listen, um, and the introvert who's willing to speak up.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I was on a show uh one of these weeks when you were taking your sabbatical, and uh thanks for allowing me to do that, by the way.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciated being able to step back.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, it was great.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, it wasn't like we were doing our awards pictures for anything, but no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, while you were gone, we did win best of South Carolina, we're pretty excited about that.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: But no, the thing is is that you know, when I'm talking about um the extrovert who's taken a step back and the introvert who's taking a step up, I had this conversation with somebody uh that was here, and we're talking about um it's a part of the brain, um, and and there's a long word for it, but it's the AMCC.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they're just talking about the fact that they've done more and more studies showing that when you do things you don't want to do, as in, or or try new things that you're not comfortable with, this little part of the brain grows.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the part of the brain that regulates uh your your mood regulation, it makes you feel good about yourself.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and when we're doing things that are comfortable, we don't do that at all.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: It shrinks.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: So my point is is do the thing that you don't want to do, and maybe that's uh another tip for uh finding the future leaders.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say for anyone who's looking for future leaders, you have to give people around you opportunities to be uncomfortable.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you find who those leaders are by pushing someone outside of their comfort zone.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't have people when I was in college that said, Hey, I I believe in you and I'm gonna challenge you to do this thing.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wouldn't be where I was if other people didn't push me.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: But also, I think sometimes it's not just like pushing the person off the ledge or like saying, go do this, but it's telling them like it's okay if you fail.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Also giving them tools to get there.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I you you don't just show up and automatically become an amazing leader.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's slowly developed over time, and we're it's it's a it's a process, right?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like we you and I both know that leadership is something that it's what we talk about on the podcast, but it's it's also what we live out and improve and work on every day.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you've got to role model that and then also encourage others to do the same thing and say, hey, Rob, like I want you to try this thing.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be good for it's not this is gonna suck, it's not gonna be easy, but I believe in you, so go try it.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it it makes our jobs a little bit harder when you're if if you are trying to learn how to spot the future leader.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think we had there's a misnomer, and um, and and you hear it in uh what I would call like um cliches, you know, he's a born leader, she's a born leader.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what usually people are talking about when they see a born leader?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's usually just somebody who's ultra charismatic or extra extraordinary.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And they carry themselves well.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: So what makes you a leader because you're doing all those things?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Leaders to me are doing the things that other people sometimes don't want to do.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're helping build up others.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And when I hear these people just describing charisma traits, I'm like, well, that could that that's a part of leadership maybe for some people, but it doesn't have to be for everybody.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and so you know, I think that goes back to doing things you don't want to do.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so if if you're trying to find a person who is uh a spot a person who's doing it and develop a person who's doing it, here's a tip that I would have then.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: It would be that thing at work, you know, you know how some people say, and this is very trendy nowadays.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: You might hear it at what you're doing.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people say, you don't have to do anything that's not on your job description.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's not on your job description.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's become very trendy to say that lately.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: But how do I know if you can do anything but your job if you only do the things on your job description?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes I will throw out things like, hey, I've got an opportunity for somebody if anybody's interested.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Your future leaders may be the person who says, I'd like to try that.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and so true.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then when they try it, maybe it's something they're uncomfortable with.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, thinking about just doing that thing that's not easy.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that we often miss when it comes to spotting future leaders is that we name or think of the future leader as the person who is the highest performer.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I say that's an issue and why this, you know, is something I think about often because I've seen it in multiple industries, there's tons of research on it, but far too often we put the person in the leadership role that was the best at their last job.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: You were a great individual contributor in whatever this role was, and so now you're gonna be responsible for other people.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we need to not just grade or look at performance, but we also need to look at what is this person's potential, their desire to also lead other people.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Are they caring?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Are they empathetic?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Are they curious?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have the skills that match our values?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: That they might not be the best at this specific job in an individual role.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're not the best fill-in-the-blank role, but it doesn't mean they can't be a future leader.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: They need to be competent, they can't be a complete slacker and not have any clue what they're doing.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but they don't have to be the best of the best in that said role to be a future leader.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: They need to have the skills and the characteristics that you're looking for in whatever that is.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I think we both know what some of those are.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about those a lot, but I I'd be curious, you know, is is there a specific thing in terms of potential that you see that even if someone isn't the best performer, you would say they do this thing, so they have the potential to be a future leader.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: So the the the best uh real world thing I can say from years of um training, years of um seeing salespeople come and go, years of seeing people have success of sales and sales, or becoming moderately successful in sales is this thing.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it is that there are some people who just have a gift for salesmanship, um, but it may not be the best leader in the group.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting because sometimes the the the what you're describing is usually would take the guy who's doing all the sales or the lady who's doing all the sales, and you would say, Okay, you're the next sales manager, boom, it's easy.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the problem with that is is that they're great at sales, but they not be may not have all those traits of great leadership.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's kind of what we're talking about today.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when you are trying to spot the talent, you have to get away from the strict metric of let's look at the quantitative result of what they're doing.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to look at how are they uh affecting the others around them.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: So let me give you an example, Nick, and I and I think I've seen this over and over again.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: You have two people at a company and they're both competing for a job, okay?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: How do they approach that competition?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Your best leader will show themselves, but it's not gonna be the one who's just kicking the crap out of the other one.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: There you go, right?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's gonna be the one who's like, hey, look, you know, I you know, look, let's go through this.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, one thing I think you might like go to your competitor.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: One thing I think you might do um when you do your presentations, if you do this, I think it could really help you.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if there's any holes you see in my game, I want to learn from them.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's leadership talk.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's absolutely what it is.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but but instead, we often make the mistake of be like, okay, so whoever sells the most next month, you're gonna be my next sales manager.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't we do that?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's well, I think we do that because we we do this horrible job of basically making leadership this thing we kind of like place up on this pedestal.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you need to be the best at this stuff, you need to be the best at all these things, like and that's that's not it.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can develop the future leader, recognize that future leader, put them in it, and then they're going to just bring out the best in the rest of your employees, but also the you're gonna bring out the lead they're if they're really doing a great job of leadership, they're also bringing out the leader behavior, leadership behaviors and the leadership, you know, capacity of the rest of the people.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's what we're pulling people up, you know.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, I get you.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and and again, we must say, I've said it so many times on the show, and you have we're not talking about rank guys, we're not talking about who's your next manager, we're saying who's your next leader, who are your best leaders.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the reason that's so important is the leader is the one in the group who's like uh they're pulling up the morale of the group, and and I don't mean just like because they're hey, everybody can do it.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the one who's saying, hey, we can get better, and here's how we get better.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes that's leadership talk.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that you're right.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Stay away from just the metrics.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: The metrics may be one of the key things you're looking at.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I want to throw the last one out for today, and of course we can talk about this more.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're trying to spot and develop a future leader, um first thing about spotting is it means you gotta open those eyes up, right?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't be an absentee owner or whomever saying, Well, I'm looking for the best leader.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta come out and look for it.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, what's gonna happen when you open your eyes?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking for the person that is actually you put them in a domain and you look at the way the people in the domain are operating, more so than the person, and then you try to draw it back to what are they doing that's different.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you could take two different departments, and we see it at every place in America we go to.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it you go to one olive garden and and I'm just using a look, bro?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love some olive gardens.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got nothing better to say I'm using a hypothetical here, but why can't you go to one olive garden and they're they you know you Greet the hostess and hey, welcome, come on in.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you and you meet the waitress, and hey, I'm gonna have your food out in a minute.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you see the chefs and they're out there and they're having a good time and making great food.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you go to another one, same company, same great food, same delicious, beautiful atmosphere, and it's a miserable experience.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, who's in that domain and what are they doing to them?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the domain is within the building.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: It could be the cooks are doing really great, but maybe somebody else isn't.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: I look at the whole domain and I say, There's usually, hey Nick, there's usually a central feature, somebody in the middle who's kind of pulling them together like glue.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I like to say it's someone who's lifting the others up.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And not just as a pep rally lift up, like a hey, you can do better, and here's how you can do better, right?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's when when they're doing that, they're they're making sure that even though they may be the leader in title or not, that they are making sure that everyone owns their role of res and responsibility of practicing leadership, regardless of title.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you go to the Olive Garden where you see that, every single employee in there knows that they have an opportunity, a responsibility, and they have to own that what they do impacts other people.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that at the end of the day, that's leadership.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and that's not always easy, but when you have that culture of leadership, regardless of whether people are leader or follower, everyone knows I have an ability to make a difference for other people.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's why when if anyone asks me what is leadership, leadership, regardless of who it is, is just leaving others better than you found them.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: My eight-year-old can do that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't have a leader title.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he can bring other people up.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's recognizing in him that he can be a future leader and title, right?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we we talked about uh four things that I've kind of designated today.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: We we said um leaders, you look at the questions they ask, you know, is the is the question, you know, when am I getting vacation time, or is the the question how do we get better, right?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um you you talk about the preparation.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what are they doing on the day-to-day to get better and to help explain to others how you know things are supposed to go together?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're doing things you don't always just want to do.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to stay in bed another hour, but I'm going to get up and go jog a mile and then go.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You want to start you want to struggle.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: You you gotta embrace that.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're the ones who are lifting the others up.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And and by the way, we could have made a hundred, but we're talking about how to spot them.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Spot the people who are doing those things, and you're gonna start being on your way.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: So before we wrap this show, man, we have like two minutes, literally two minutes.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're a viewer, please don't hang up.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Two minute warning.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Don't hang up like they're listening on the phone for some reason.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Two minutes on a game, it's gonna actually be two minutes.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be two minutes, two-minute clock just started.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Here we go.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're at Coastal Carolina now.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of great leaders at Coastal Carolina, great leaders, and there have been a lot of great historic leaders at Coastal Carolina.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: You can pick from any one of that field.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me somebody you think's doing a great leadership job.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Whoo, great question.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, I understand you could probably name 50 names because I know you've told me some good things.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're just talking about I'm putting you on the spot saying just name somebody.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't have to be the best, just somebody.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: So honestly, someone who I think about is it's a woman named Leslie who's been there.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: She is our um administrative support person for the Wall College of Business.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Leslie's been there the last time I was there, 10 years ago.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: She's been in several different roles there, um, always supporting.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one of the things that I remember was on my interview process, just how genuinely excited she was to see me when I came in to interview with our dean.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: And she is, title or not, the to me, someone, the embodiment of like she does an amazing job of lifting other people up.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Of spotting that in other people.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: She's helpful, friendly, encouraging, challenging, and she's she's grown, right?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's changed her career as she's gone through the years.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but at the same time, she's always been authentic to who she is.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's someone that I I get to work with now every day.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great answer.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, she's someone who, right?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out Leslie.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um, no, no, but I just honestly I enjoy that I get to work with her.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good answer.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I say it's a good answer is we could have, you know, you could have picked the president, you could have picked uh the past president.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: I could keep giving lots of answers to the case.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: You pick the coach of the football team or the baseball team or whomever, and they're all good answers, but you you pick somebody who maybe doesn't get all the glory that some of the other guys might or gals might get out there.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing I I'll tell you that I thought may be one of the greatest signs of a leader, and this is uh to me what was most of an epiphany for me when you said that.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Not to get overly dramatic, but you said that the last time she saw you, you your voice was probably cracking, yeah, I'm a nick that stuff out of it.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now here you are, you're a grown man.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm gonna do that.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, it was about that's about right.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: 2011.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to make a joke right now, but but but literally she saw you, and when she saw you again, she was excited to see you.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I can imagine she was excited to see you because she had seen how much you grew.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: She was glad to have you back in her domain.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and mm, you know, the greatest leaders, they want to see you grow and they want to see you take that next step.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what she saw when she saw you coming in, she said, Man, I'm so glad to have you back.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and there's been people in my life who maybe you're not in my life right now, but I still think about you and I still think well of you.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and if I see you, I'm gonna smile because I I'm hoping you're on that next step up, too.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so beautiful, dude.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, listen, man, that's a great place for us to wrap.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you're back, Nick.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the show.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: For thanks for keeping me around.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: People probably thought you got rid of me.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I was gonna have to put your pink slips up, and no, no, no, no, you're good.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: But but listen, everybody, we we hope you guys got something great out of the show today.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And look for those leaders around your domain.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and don't always think if you're somebody out there and you're going, I'm no leader.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me, everybody can be a leader.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone can be a leader.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Just go out and practice that by being your best and do the things we talked about today.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Ask another question, be a little bit more prepared.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do the thing today, you know, do that thing that you just don't want to do as long as it's a good thing.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and uh and lift others up.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a great place for us to leave.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh everybody, thank you for listening.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure to like and share us on your social media platform, wherever you're listening to us at.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, we'll see y'all next time.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Nick, welcome back.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And do it again soon.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, let's do it again.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see y'all next time on the Leader Mentality Show with Rob Clemens and this guy, Nick D Stavano.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, bye bye.