Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of The Kings' Demons (1/2)

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Talks to Frazer Gregory about his choice of The Kings' Demons (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
I'm still with a plump pen knife for doing quicker.
0:36
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.
0:39
We come to saying of total smut. Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding,
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Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding. Hello, and welcome back to a
0:49
hamster with a blunt pen knife. I'm sorry I couldn't think of
0:52
any more words for that song. So we're just going to end it
0:54
there. And no one else wants to hear me
0:56
sing. So we're just going to crack on
0:58
with today's commentary, which is on, as everyone would have
1:02
guessed by now, The King's demons.
1:04
Joe, what's your thoughts on the King's demons?
1:07
Oh absolutely love the thing. I can't think of a Doctor Who
1:11
story I enjoy more than The King's Demons Who.
1:14
I'm honest with you. A masterpiece of meticulous
1:17
exactitude, you might say. Good, good.
1:19
We're going to get on with this 1 then.
1:23
I think isn't that exactly what I said in the Strictly Come
1:25
Hamster season 20 episodes? Still the third most listened to
1:30
episode of Hamster, A Blood PED knife of all time.
1:33
All time. Well, blame you, Charlie.
1:37
Reminders. Did it go through this one?
1:40
Did it go? No, but Rod was on the call
1:43
though it. Did go through it did go
1:44
through. All of them went through on
1:45
that. 10 did. It did, yes.
1:48
Didn't get very far, I didn't feel very much the 1st circle in
1:51
Round 2. Got it through what 1 again?
1:53
Was it snake dance? It was snake dance, yes.
1:55
Oh, fair enough. Yeah, sorry.
1:58
That's the one you don't like. Oh my God, what madness is this
2:03
not? Fair enough, it was up against
2:04
the five doctors and the five doctors lost because he is a war
2:07
mad. Can I be completely honest?
2:10
You can't be completely. Honest, yes.
2:13
I don't hate the King's demons. I don't think you can hate
2:16
anything as inoffensive as this, like it's just so fair.
2:22
I do think maybe in terms of narrative structure, the way it
2:27
just ends with any kind of a climax or the perhaps less than
2:34
thrillingly disguised version of the Master in it and some of the
2:39
more labour dialogue, it does have a floor or two.
2:43
But I think perhaps it's very well designed.
2:47
I think the location work is absolutely beautiful.
2:50
It doesn't hang around long enough to truly annoy you.
2:56
So I'm sort of ambivalent. I don't hate it, I certainly
3:01
don't love it. I'm just sort of somewhere in
3:03
the middle it it's a bit of a limp climax to the season, which
3:08
should have been Daleks and Death.
3:11
Well, possibly, possibly, but I mean there's interesting things
3:14
you want to pick there. Should we judge something on
3:17
where it comes in a season? And maybe in the new series.
3:23
In the new series, yes. But we, you know, we can't
3:25
because we did. We do have stories which are
3:27
very, you know, heavily set out to be finales, you know, So
3:31
yeah, you can. And sometimes you do have to
3:33
judge those on on how well they stand up as finonies.
3:37
But you know what? In the classic Should we?
3:39
Should we judge? For example, The Dominators has
3:41
been the first of a series. Should we judge?
3:44
So classic. What a way to start the season.
3:46
Yeah, you've totally beguiled me about that one.
3:49
You know, things like the invasion of time, Should we
3:52
judge that because that is the climax of that series do.
3:55
You mean the Invasion of Time, the winner of the season 15
3:58
strictly come? Hamster.
4:00
We've already established the dodgy credentials of the
4:05
Strictly Come Hamster winners. Let's not talk at that bear
4:08
anymore. I know what you're saying.
4:09
In fact, you could pull up a better example out of your
4:12
asshole because I love the Horns of Nyman, which is the the
4:16
King's demons of that season. It's the one that shouldn't have
4:20
been the season finale because we were expecting Sharda, the
4:23
big bold Time Lord, continuity shattering 6 parter, and instead
4:29
we got, you know, sort of men in big ball costumes and tights.
4:34
Yes, but I love that. Yes, but it's, you know, are are
4:39
we projecting something onto these stories that we shouldn't
4:42
because, you know, even the ones that were destined to be a
4:45
finale, sort of obviously, you know, you're you're things like
4:48
Lagopolis aside, because that is the end of a a you know, a
4:52
doctor's 1, you know, something like the demons, for example,
4:55
was, you know, should we look at that and see if that?
4:58
What a great finale. Judge that as a finale was that
5:03
produced with the intention well, this is going to be the
5:05
end of our we're going to keep this one at the end because this
5:07
is going to be the really good end to the season.
5:10
You know, I, I don't think it. Was supposed to be the sort of
5:15
cute little two-part of that black orchid between two bigger
5:18
stories like the Visitation and Earth Shock, right?
5:23
It was supposed to be between enlightenment and the return,
5:27
yeah. It was so I.
5:29
Think people judge it wrongly because it is a finale then?
5:32
Quite possibly, you know, I think it it it's accidentally a
5:36
finale, but I don't think we should be looking at and saying,
5:38
well, this is a terrible finale because it was never intended to
5:41
be finale. But even if it was the finale,
5:43
even if they said, oh, we'll just put the two parter on the
5:45
end and we'll we'll lead it directly into them going off to
5:48
the are you a Ryan or whatever. I still don't think that's the
5:53
way they made the show. But I don't think they they
5:55
thought we're going to end on a bang, as it were.
5:59
You know, I mean, look at time flight.
6:00
That's. Absolute banger, Crispin's boys.
6:05
Come on now. So what about you then?
6:08
You know, you're talking about where it is in the season, but
6:10
you're not telling me what you think about this absolute
6:12
masterpiece. I mean, I would, I would kind of
6:14
agree with a lot of what you've said there.
6:15
It's it's there, it's inconsequential, It's very
6:19
inoffensive. But I think the biggest thing is
6:22
it's fun. Is it fun?
6:24
Yes, it is. Oh, you can explain to me the
6:27
poets where it's fun. Well, we will do so.
6:30
And that, that means the bigger question, really.
6:32
But what do you expect from Doctor Who when you watch it?
6:36
What? Say, in this time zone or just
6:38
from the start? Point.
6:39
Any point, You know what? You know, I'm going to sit down.
6:41
I'm going to watch some Doctor Who.
6:42
What is your expectation by the end of that?
6:45
Oh, usually, you know, somewhere exotic, like New Orleans.
6:48
I expect sex magic shows, you know, babies being thrown at me,
6:53
that sort of thing. No, Right.
6:55
We just reported City of the Dead.
6:56
No, I expect. I expect rollicking adventure.
7:01
I expect fun and witty Doctor Who.
7:05
I expect likeable, funny companions.
7:08
Please don't tell me they're in here, Tegan.
7:11
It's not likeable in this. All right, I expect a big sort
7:18
of villain to reveal himself action.
7:22
I expect beautiful production values or as good as they can do
7:26
at the time, that sort of thing. Is that unreasonable?
7:30
I. Think.
7:32
Am I describing the King's demons?
7:33
You. Certainly are.
7:34
Yes, you are. A witty Dr. Are you sure he is?
7:39
It's it's Davison very much on the, on the, the cusp.
7:42
He's very much on the cusp of the zero folks attitude that he
7:45
has in 21. You know, where he's just like,
7:47
I'm going to turn up. I'm going to play the doctor
7:50
Like I want to play the doctor. I've done two years now of, you
7:53
know, having to turn it up and, you know, turn myself down.
7:58
But you know what? I'm leaving.
8:00
I'm just going to You see it in front, Yes.
8:01
You see it in the Awake, and then you see it in Anderson.
8:03
He's just like, I don't give a shit.
8:05
I'm out here, I'll play it however the fuck I want.
8:07
And I shall take a good look at him in this because I don't
8:10
really remember anything he does in this story but season 21.
8:14
So I think you're right. He's electrifying some of those.
8:17
The bit to watch is when the look on his face when he takes
8:20
his coat off to fight the master out at the end.
8:22
Sorry. So she's she's yeah, yeah.
8:26
So she's. You're less strong.
8:28
What does he? Say, our French Knights, in case
8:31
we hadn't been paying attention to the axe.
8:35
It's the way he goes, Oh no, when the masters revealed, and
8:39
it's the sort of way you say, Oh no, when you know your mates
8:44
come into the pub that you don't want to hang with.
8:46
I think he's like, oh, it's Anthony Ainley.
8:48
Oh no, Jesus. Christ, just the look on his
8:52
face, we'll come to it. Obviously.
8:53
The look on his face when he takes his jacket off, it's just
8:55
pure, like, oh for fuck's sake, right, I've had enough of this
8:59
shit, let's get on. Why is Tegan in such a bad mood
9:03
in this though? She's really in a bad night at
9:05
the end of this. They're welcoming this fabulous
9:08
robot chameleon shape changer, a game changer for their
9:11
adventures into the TARDIS. And she just goes, oh, you could
9:15
have Marvin for all our care, no.
9:18
So what you've what you've got to realise about this, and we
9:21
talked about this when we did the awakening and not the
9:22
awakening, we did Black Hawk. I didn't.
9:24
We've said we're talking about hand time.
9:26
We talked about downtime, you know, the crew or just getting
9:29
the opportunity to sit back and enjoy themselves and do you know
9:33
the things that they like to do. You know what's Tegan's favorite
9:36
thing to do? Complain.
9:39
Exactly. So she's, oh, actually she's
9:45
still on on in character in Power of the Doctor, isn't she?
9:48
Yeah. You know, and I wasn't a
9:51
stewardess in the 1980s. Yes, I would like to go with the
9:55
TARDIS. Thank.
9:55
You. Oh, she's just fabulous.
9:57
And that, what did she say? I think I handled that quite
9:59
well. But that, that is funny.
10:04
Yeah. That is great funny dialogue.
10:06
She ain't funny in this. But she's having the same of her
10:08
life. She's got everything to complain
10:10
about. And you know, it's it's you
10:12
know, when yeah, you have one of these sci-fi brain scan machines
10:15
and it gives you your deepest desires that what you want.
10:18
You know, this would be Teigen. So just like everything to
10:20
complain about. I prefer the recently I did
10:23
Mouldren undead again. And at the end of that, you
10:27
know, when Tegan says to the Doctor, oh, you was going to
10:30
sacrifice your life for us, thank you very much.
10:32
I'm like, who the fuck is that exactly?
10:35
Where's that Tegan? I wanted to say to chameleon not
10:38
maybe not to the extent that they're doing the new series,
10:40
you know, please come in, have a bedroom.
10:43
Oh, wonderful adventures in time and space.
10:45
Nothing like that. But just like, welcome to the
10:47
TARDIS, you know, like. She knows the crack, she knows
10:50
that not going to work this thing anymore, so it's just
10:53
going to go in the cupboard. I just get this sense that she
10:55
hates being there and I don't think that really translates to
11:00
enjoyment for the viewer. Again, I think it depends on
11:05
your you know what you're going in looking for.
11:07
If you are, you know, 1 going in wanting to say, you know, you
11:14
know, a team of adventurers, you know, all oh, isn't this, you
11:17
know, like the famous 5 sort of oh, Johnny hockey sticks, That's
11:20
the scarf himself, the crime and let's do that.
11:21
Yeah, Then yeah, you are going to be disappointed.
11:24
If you want to go in and see, you know, a bit of dynamics, a
11:27
bit of, you know, bit of reality really, because you know, the
11:33
end of the day, if if I I. Was living in a toxic
11:36
relationship with my family at home.
11:37
I don't need to see it in the TARDIS as well.
11:39
This is my escapism. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's
11:42
hardly toxic, is it? It's like he's he's don't have
11:43
something freezing cold and she's not happy because she's
11:46
freezing cold because essentially, you know, GMT is
11:50
dressed her in something ridiculous.
11:51
Now she has to run around a field in Kent or somewhere.
11:55
And you know, it's it's not, it's the South Coast, isn't it?
11:59
It's it's not far from you, is it?
12:00
It's. Bodium Castle.
12:02
Yeah. Yeah, it's not far at all.
12:03
Yeah. Yeah, so you.
12:05
Should come and visit actually and re reenact the scenes on the
12:07
horses. You know exactly the Gelston.
12:10
Yes, one of us can dress up in a, in a a very convincing ginger
12:14
we had, yeah. No, Mark don't need to do that,
12:16
does he? OK, well, I'll she'll keep an
12:21
eye out for these thrilling dynamics between the TARDIS 3 in
12:25
this story. You know, can I tell you
12:27
something about what James Clark said to me recently?
12:29
You got this two parter He. Said it was great fun.
12:33
He did, and he said he likes it because he was talking about, of
12:37
course, like you, he can't just talk about the story we're
12:40
talking about. No, he did a 20 minute preamble
12:42
talking about the entire fucking Peter Davidson era story by
12:45
story to explain to me why season 20 was the best of the
12:49
three seasons. I mean, what madness?
12:51
I mean, he must have been hit on the head or something as a child
12:54
anyway to reach that conclusion. Anyway, he's talking about the
12:58
two parters, right when he gets to King's Demas and he says,
13:00
well, in one you've got them sort of just hanging out with
13:04
the Gentry and playing cricket. He goes, that's boring, I don't
13:08
want to do that. He goes and the other one, we're
13:11
in castles, we're doing jousting with Knights, we've got sword
13:14
fights happening, you know, and robots in the past and all of
13:18
this. He goes, he goes, there ain't
13:20
much to it. He goes.
13:21
But it's certainly more fun than Black Orchids.
13:25
Yeah, I think it's, what a very good point there.
13:26
You know, it's, I mean, I like cricket, but I like Justin as
13:30
well. Really.
13:31
Oh yeah. Why it's, it's just, it's, it's
13:37
very low maintenance sport in terms of like me having to watch
13:40
it. So you know, when you're
13:42
watching something like football, you know, you've got
13:44
90 minutes of like intense concentration with, with the
13:47
cricket. I can just put the cricket on
13:49
and I can just do something else.
13:50
I used to do, I used to do my, when I was at uni, I used to
13:53
have the cricket on and I would do my coursework.
13:55
I'd be doing my revision notes and every time.
13:58
So boring you don't even have to look at it.
14:00
Every time something that's not I'm not, just look up and Oh
14:02
yeah, cool. You know what?
14:03
How often was that? Quite often, to be honest, you
14:06
know. But do you have a Whitaker's
14:08
Almanac, Fraser? It's probably why I got a 22
14:10
rather than a 21, but. Blame the cricket, do you?
14:14
Do you have a Whitaker's? Is that a euphemism, not the?
14:19
No, which do you know what it is?
14:21
It's all the cricket scores ever and they update it every year.
14:26
It gets fatter and fatter every year and people keep buying it
14:30
with their updated cricket scores.
14:32
Oh no, I do not have a whit guess.
14:35
No. Offered.
14:38
OK, so where was we? Oh yeah.
14:40
Jousting sword. Fighting Sword.
14:43
Fighting castles, it's, it's got so much going on in this.
14:47
I mean, at the same time, there's so very little.
14:51
Yes, indeed. You know, because let's be
14:53
honest, you know it is a perfect two-part because there is no
14:55
plot. There is no plot whatsoever.
14:58
You know, the plot is essentially will introduce
15:00
chameleon, but it's it's just fun.
15:05
It's a fun journey getting towards that.
15:08
Nothing at the end. So I thought the plot was the
15:11
master attempting to rewrite the Magna Carta for no reason.
15:15
What? Possibly, I don't know, it's
15:17
just an excuse to get a load of a load of people in there
15:20
jousting, sword fighting, singing songs, quoting some sort
15:24
of concept, Shakespearean dialogue.
15:27
And you know, yeah, that's, that's pretty much it.
15:33
It's so brief, it's so economic in its runtime, that it doesn't
15:39
even have to have, but have any substance.
15:41
It can just have one purpose, which is to introduce a new
15:44
companion that we never, ever, ever see again.
15:48
Except his last story. Me argument is settle your
15:52
expectations. The argument is if you go into
15:56
this thinking this is going to be, you know, something is, you
15:59
know, you know, dense and well thought out as say, Genesis of
16:03
the Daleks, You know, something that's, you know, got like a
16:06
real model, a real point to it, like Happiness Patrol.
16:10
Or if it's going to have something with like, you know,
16:12
real, you know, danger and excitement like Andrew Zani, you
16:17
know, no, you're not going to get there.
16:18
If if you are going to go in this and expect for one hour or
16:22
less than an hour, you can sit there and just be entertained by
16:26
what's happening on screen, you'll win.
16:29
You'll absolutely win, just don't don't expect too much of
16:32
it and. I wonder if you enjoy so much of
16:36
the worst of Doctor Who if that's how you go in watching.
16:38
It but yeah, you know, if you know what to expect when you
16:43
watch them, I think it makes a lot easier.
16:46
You know I'm I'm, you know it just.
16:48
Never leaves an impression, That's the thing.
16:50
It just never leaves an impression of me.
16:52
Like I'll watch it and then I'll never think about it again until
16:55
somebody says, oh, the King's demons exist.
16:58
And I'll go, Oh, yes. So it does.
17:00
But like, there are many Doctor Who stories that are pondering a
17:03
lot, you know? Oh yeah.
17:05
Yeah. And you know, this, this may not
17:06
be 1 because if they say it doesn't have that big hook, it
17:08
doesn't have, you know, a big grandstanding speech.
17:11
You know, it hasn't got sort of like the, you know, your, your
17:15
Buddha's mind of like snake dance or kinder or anything.
17:19
You know, it hasn't got a garm in it like Terminus.
17:21
But you know, it's, it has got a lot going for it has got a lot
17:24
of stuff to just to enjoy, just to sit there, turn your brain
17:28
off for like I say for the 50 minutes that you just go turn
17:32
your brain off. Bless you for thinking mine is
17:34
ever on. Just never stops.
17:39
Not when I watch shit like this, no.
17:43
Well, should we kind of watch the thing then?
17:45
Should we kind of watch the episode 1 and you can point out
17:48
all the times play and please do where this is fun Yeah, I.
17:51
Sure do I shall. Do.
17:52
Oh, thank you so much. I mean, I can't think of a
17:55
better way, honestly, of spending a Monday off than
17:58
sitting here watching the King's Demons with the embrasers.
18:01
Oh no, I was going to sort of make a really rude rhyme.
18:06
I might write it throughout the first one and then do it as the
18:08
start of episode 2. Alright.
18:09
That's fine. You do that.
18:10
Yeah, you do. That I'm sure I can rhyme many
18:13
things with bum, you know? You can, yes.
18:16
Well, look, fun does not rhyme with bum.
18:22
It can do. OK, well shall I count as in
18:25
since you started the episode off?
18:27
Yes. Yes, OK, well, we'll go into the
18:30
exploding stars of Peter Davidson's face in 321 if we go.
18:40
Oh, crocky, I've got the sound on.
18:42
I've done that for a while. Well, there you go, there's
18:45
something fun straight away. It's Peter Davidson's face
18:47
made-up stars. How can you not enjoy that?
18:49
Well, it is. It is, although it doesn't
18:51
really suggest historical drama to me, this title sequence.
18:54
Well, it doesn't, but you know, it's what we get.
18:58
I see what you're saying about set your expectations to
19:00
something different. What?
19:03
What? I mean, did you like, do you
19:05
like a historical? I love historical.
19:08
I, I genuinely think now the highest bar of Doctor Who is
19:15
both the Hartnell and the Chipnall historicals.
19:18
And yes, I said the Chipnall historicals.
19:22
I mean, there's a bit of money on the screen here.
19:24
It's great, isn't it? I think who's Tony Virgo is the
19:28
director of this one and he never comes back.
19:30
No, but I think he had a career. He did.
19:32
He had a very good career. But I mean, look at this, look
19:34
at this opening. Oh my God, it's Isla Blair.
19:38
Isla Blair, It's Frank Windsor. It's Gerald Flood.
19:41
It's a good cast, isn't it? It's a great cast.
19:44
Yeah. Oh dear.
19:44
Look at that man. He's got a terrible Agric cut.
19:46
Isn't he the one playing the the guitar there?
19:48
What's he called? Liar.
19:50
Liar. No, no, I think he's telling the
19:52
truth. Isla Blair's on the documentary
19:55
for this. She's very, very funny.
19:57
She finds the the fact that she was in this Riley amusing.
20:02
Exactly. But no, that, that opening I
20:04
think is really good. It's like directions really
20:07
good. You've got the camera, you know,
20:09
different angles coming in, moving up and down and left and
20:12
right. You've got, you've got a little
20:14
person as a jester. You've, you've got dogs in
20:17
there. You've got like actual like
20:18
Crocker walls. Big dogs, isn't it?
20:20
Yeah. I really certainly.
20:23
I certainly won't say there isn't any money in this two par,
20:27
but it really is. I mean, they must have had all
20:29
these props in this in the cupboard, right?
20:30
The BBC. Yeah, or there's James Stalker.
20:35
No, who cares about James Stoker?
20:37
Look at this fellow with the blonde hair that is the most
20:40
fuckable man in season 20. Well, there you go, you've
20:43
already found to make fun to watch.
20:44
What's? The man's name.
20:45
Oh, I don't know. I'm going.
20:46
To Is it the King's son? It's the King's son, yes.
20:50
Oh boy, and if I married him, I would also be I'll be a royal.
20:54
No, he's not the King's son. He is.
20:56
He's what's his face. He's Lord.
20:58
Lord Ranulph. Ranulph Fitzwilliams, son.
21:03
It's Hugh. It's Christopher Villiers.
21:05
Christopher Villiers, you are beautiful, but now I know you're
21:08
not a royal. Unfortunately, we can't have a
21:10
future. What?
21:11
Else has he been? There, Paul Ryan, Le Blair, she
21:13
don't get much to do. Oh, this is very old, right?
21:16
I mean, I do like the cup to the sun setting and then the outset
21:20
exterior of the castle. That's really nice.
21:21
And most not Doctor Who, we don't do that sort of thing very
21:24
often. But the music Man is it starts
21:28
off being instruments and then it becomes 80s Doctor Who synth.
21:33
Oh, who doesn't love it? He's Doctor Who synth.
21:35
So your man with the blonde hair was in Mummy on the OR express
21:39
as well? Was he doesn't look as pretty
21:42
all those years later. I don't think he has, otherwise
21:44
he would have remembered, but he's Professor Moore House in
21:46
Mummy on the Orient Express. Professor Morehouse, who are
21:50
you? Oh my God, He looks absolutely
21:52
gorgeous. Oh, no.
21:54
He's put the helmet on. Look at this.
21:57
All shot in the sunshine. Beautiful.
21:59
It's great. Isn't it's, I mean it's, it's, I
22:02
think what I'll say about this whole story is it's pure GNT.
22:07
You get everything that you would expect from GNT
22:10
production. Good and bad.
22:12
Good and bad, yes. The whole lot.
22:14
It's just pure concentrated John Nathan Turner.
22:18
It's just like, it's gimmicky, it's nonsensical, but at the
22:24
same time it's, you know, so visually appealing.
22:28
Every bit of money you see on that screen there.
22:31
Superbly cast as of now. JNT staple.
22:36
I mean like James was saying about this jousting sequel as
22:39
well. My issue is, is that as a nipper
22:43
I didn't really I had no care for medieval times and you know,
22:48
Knights fighting and stuff like this.
22:49
So I do accept that's my issue though, that under a lot of kids
22:53
love this stuff, right? I mean, does the does the pole
22:56
literally sort of stab into people?
22:59
Yeah, yeah. So the whole point is, you know,
23:01
you, you, you build your two horses at each other with your
23:04
stick. You point your stick at the
23:05
other guy. If you smash your stick off him,
23:08
you win a point. If you knock his head off, you
23:10
win like 3 points. If you knock him off his horse,
23:12
you win his horse. What about if you knock his head
23:14
off? You win everything the.
23:16
Castle. He did.
23:18
So you win his horse, you win his money, you win everything.
23:21
Right, so look at how long Peter Davison's hair is.
23:24
It's great, isn't it? It is he.
23:25
I think he might need to go to the space hairdressers.
23:28
Oh, Tegan, she's even her coat is worse than her top look.
23:32
It's so ugly that's Jay and T put in her coat again, isn't it?
23:36
It's. Wonderful, I.
23:37
Said you said the best and the worst, right?
23:39
Yeah, and obviously you've got you've got Turlo who is no
23:41
longer a schoolboy but is still dressed as a schoolboy because
23:44
character options are going to want to make Turlo in 40 years
23:48
time. So we'll make it easy for them.
23:50
Yeah, you know, by Mark. That's a good cosplayer, Turlo.
23:52
You know, I may have said that before.
23:55
Look at all the Blair looking scared.
23:59
Our demons come to visitors. Oh, there's no harm left in the
24:03
fridge. He has a great time in this.
24:07
Don't. He's he really does.
24:09
I think that's that's the again, you know, the cast are having
24:12
fun. So we're having fun.
24:14
But yeah, oh, look at that hideous looking woman there on
24:18
the left hand side. Did you see her?
24:20
I wouldn't have. Given a Janet Fielding.
24:25
Actually she looks fat. I think I really like her hair
24:28
in this. Yeah, but if you'll notice,
24:31
we're getting a little bit of education here as well.
24:33
We're talking about King John, we're talking about losing the
24:35
crown jewels in the wash, you know, and we're.
24:38
Well, Terence Dudley's got his Ladybird Book of Medieval Times,
24:42
doesn't he? You know he's.
24:43
Getting new he quite possibly hers.
24:46
Oh, it looks so cold, Fraser. Hey, wait a minute.
24:49
I thought the sun was out. Why is it so cold now?
24:52
But I think it's it's, it's one of these ones where you can see
24:55
exactly how cold it is. You can see the world perishing
24:58
that. Way, Janet said.
25:00
I'm putting on a jacket or. You can see Mark Strickson just
25:03
been like, Oh my God, I am so cold.
25:07
Look at that man on the horse behind trying to get into shock.
25:10
What I like though, is, you know, it's not one of these ones
25:13
that tries to hide it. You know, it's not like, you
25:15
know, like, oh, there's some frequent weather conditions
25:17
because the TARDIS has come one of that.
25:18
It's like, no, it was really cold in those days.
25:20
It's a cold technical, you know, the cold months, the inside the
25:23
castle is really cold. So we're going to have to, you
25:25
know, share a bed and wrap it warm and everything.
25:27
You know it's never shield away from.
25:30
What you want is, oh, hang on, this has been shot on different
25:33
days. Look that that went to sunshine
25:36
there a second ago and then it was misty.
25:37
That's the shot lane. It's a bit.
25:39
Sunshine. I'm telling you now, there's
25:42
some shots where it's sunshine. There is not.
25:46
There, look, there's sun on the peasants.
25:48
Now look at this shot here where you've got your favorite lane
25:51
and. Please ready for me to climb on
25:54
board. Let's go.
25:55
Just look how fit well fame that is with James Stoker coming up
26:00
behind Crystal, I think that's a wonderful bit of direction.
26:03
Is he going to decapitate him, Fraser?
26:06
Yes, he's going to. He's going to.
26:08
He's knocked him off his horse. He's going to kill him now.
26:10
Trust Doctor Who to get involved and spoil all of our fun.
26:15
How very dare he be the good guy.
26:17
I know he could have chopped off all the offending parts.
26:19
Now I could have kept him. Come on now, we take your
26:23
counsel. A new audience again.
26:26
Sorry. Yeah.
26:27
Sorry, spare him. Why?
26:35
What's happened to his hair? It's it's the rain because it's
26:39
chocolate down, there's no sun whatsoever.
26:41
Oh, bliss. Now this is an issue with 1980s
26:43
top series, certainly not an issue of The King's Demons.
26:46
It's a you go outside and have that beautiful soft location
26:50
work and then you you're in the studio and it feels like you're
26:53
literally in a panto set, you know?
26:57
It is you. Just you just have to, yeah.
27:00
Yeah, I think we're all, we're all used to that and we're all
27:03
used to the, you know, the, the, the change from film on
27:07
location, a video in the studio. There's a lot of extras here,
27:12
isn't there? Yeah.
27:12
Yeah. Like people cost money, right?
27:15
I mean, I know you don't give them a line, but.
27:17
Yeah, we've got to. Talking about this line, Fraser,
27:21
what about what the doctor says in a minute about another way of
27:23
keeping warm? Exactly.
27:25
Dirty bastard. Oh look, Turtle gets the wander
27:28
off and do what Turtle likes to do, which is get captured, tied
27:32
up and. I really feel sorry for him in
27:34
this. It just doesn't have anything
27:37
all does say. I mean I watched the awakening
27:40
recently got locked up for all of that as well.
27:43
Resurrection of dies just wanders around a spaceship.
27:47
But it's, it's, it's, that's the thing, isn't it?
27:48
It's like this is this is the first story with Turtle as an
27:53
actual, you know, companion and not, you know, the guy who's
27:57
constantly trying to kill the Doctor.
28:00
So you can kind of say, oh, don't really know what to do
28:03
with this guy. You know, do we trust him?
28:05
Do we not? Should we should he still be
28:07
playing at Shady? But he's it's it's I'll just
28:13
love it by the end. We'll get there where he's just
28:15
like I've had enough. Don't push me too far.
28:22
I've had enough of all of us, now fuck off.
28:27
He used to say he warriors in the deep.
28:29
Every time he turns up, it's heaven.
28:31
Remember, he just walks in and goes instead of just going the
28:34
door control phrase, where is it?
28:35
He goes the door control. Look, I got much to do, all
28:41
right? I'm going to make the most of
28:43
it, okay? Absolutely yes.
28:45
I. Don't know what was going on
28:46
between the doctor and Tegan there.
28:48
That camera was getting in very close on the pair of them.
28:50
Well, the you've already said, you know, they keep finding some
28:53
other way to keep warm. So.
28:54
Oh. Look at this lovely shot there,
28:55
framed with a fire. Oh yes, again, it's a classic
29:00
GNT. You get someone in new who's
29:02
actually really good and then you never bring them back so.
29:05
Why is that? Did he take someone out to lunch
29:07
that JNT didn't like? Possibly, possibly.
29:09
You probably just thought he's a bit too good.
29:12
I like just grab your needle there and do a bit of the old,
29:16
what's it called weaving. Tapestry.
29:19
Tapestry, yeah. Yeah, it's what it's what the
29:24
needies. You know, I'll give them some
29:25
credit for these sets that that's like it's made of stone.
29:28
Yeah. Yeah, it's a really good set.
29:29
And it's got massive tapestries hanging from the ceiling as
29:32
well. Yeah, it's, if you look at it,
29:35
it's quite, quite a big set, but it's, it's got levels as well.
29:39
It's, you know, people are going up stairs and down stairs and
29:42
windows to look out. Man in the middle there looks a
29:44
bit like Reese Shearsmith with a big mustache on.
29:47
Did you see him? Hang on.
29:48
Not him. It's the other side.
29:51
They've all got medieval mustaches, haven't they?
29:53
That's right. Well, there's a whole department
29:55
at the BBC. We've got to use them for
29:56
something. The the medistache.
29:59
The king shall lack no comforts within these walls.
30:03
She knows exactly what she's playing.
30:05
The the look she gives him when he grabs her on there say.
30:09
I mean, under any other circumstances, Fraser Isle of
30:12
Blair would be the star of this, wouldn't she?
30:14
Would she would? She would.
30:18
But you know, it's a really good cast.
30:20
I mean, Frank Windsor has just got one of those.
30:22
I'm sure he's been in loads of stuff but he hasn't when I've
30:26
checked. I can't see, you know, where I
30:28
would recognise him from. But just such a recognisable
30:31
face and he's really going for it.
30:32
So these things, right? What are they called?
30:35
These torture things. Are you maiden?
30:37
Do they have spikes in them? Yeah.
30:38
Yeah. What?
30:39
And they literally put people inside and then spiked them to
30:42
death and they just bleed to death inside there.
30:45
Yeah. I mean, it's a little.
30:46
Torture. Is that why the master sort of
30:47
gag? What is it like?
30:49
Yeah, they did have some twisted ideas in medieval times, didn't
30:54
they? Yeah.
30:55
I mean, you see the mustard, but there's no saying of the mustard
30:57
appear. On you.
30:58
Oh, I'm so sorry. No, I don't know why I thought
31:01
that, if I'm honest. You were just telling me earlier
31:04
about how you love a good twist and then we shall examine this
31:12
Demons blue engine. Come on, how could you possibly
31:18
complement that accent? I shall take the Mark Strickson
31:23
route and say it's consistent. I shall see whether it's
31:29
consistently good or bad. It's just consistent.
31:33
I think much like the Green Death in Wales, France refused
31:37
to air the demons. It's never been seen over there.
31:42
Paul Daniel Rawls, who's never seen it.
31:43
He's never seen King the Demons. He has.
31:46
I'm just taking the piss now. This man here the no, he's not
31:52
the king, is it? It's his castle.
31:53
It's. His castle, so he's he's the
31:55
Lord, he's Lord Randolph Fitzwilliams to the king has
31:59
come to visit. So obviously they've they've put
32:02
out the red carpet, the bestest welcome for the king and he's
32:07
demanding all the money, basically saying, well, I need
32:09
all your money in the same way you've had all the money say,
32:12
well, that's not good enough. I'm the king, you're traitor, so
32:15
I'm going to kill. Yourself.
32:16
Are they poisonous veal or something?
32:18
And then they could nick the King's army.
32:20
Well, I think if they did that, they might get killed
32:23
themselves. Well, they've got a castle, you
32:26
know, battlements. Now, I do find it very amusing,
32:30
but when Janet Fielding is on location, generally she's sort
32:33
of just wearing a belt. Now she's in the studio, she's
32:36
got about 900 layers on. You see, they're selling it.
32:41
They're selling the fact that it is a cooled winter's deer in
32:45
there. Do you think this could have
32:47
worked as a four parter? Absolutely not, no.
32:50
As a three parter, no. No.
32:53
But could it be more sort of a more story about history?
32:59
I mean, there was there was probably like a four part tale
33:01
to be told about the Magna Carta and that sort of stuff because,
33:05
you know, we are getting a lot of education here.
33:07
We're getting a lot to know about, you know, Magna Carta.
33:10
He's 10. Studly is certainly trying to
33:12
put the the reputation of King John back a little bit.
33:17
You know, we all know, you know, Bad King John is the the villain
33:22
from Robin Hood and all that, you know, so he's trying to
33:25
restore that a little bit with the actual facts.
33:29
Yeah. So there is probably a good
33:31
story in there. But, you know, this one is, like
33:33
I said, it's basically it's we want to introduce Chameleon.
33:37
So this is how we're going to do it.
33:39
What's the closest? What's the closest Doctor Who
33:42
story to this one in terms of sort of dates elsewhere?
33:46
I'm trying to get a sort of sense of where we are.
33:48
It'll be the crusade. Is that before or after this?
33:52
Probably around with the same sort of time.
33:54
You're joking, The crusade is absolutely amazing.
33:57
I watched that recently. Probably before.
34:00
Let's have a check. Let's go to the fact machine on
34:03
Wikipedia and see, because we'll be able to.
34:06
The beauty is you're looking. This is really quite cleverly
34:12
idiot. So it's a 12/15 for this 10.
34:15
I love it when the TARDIS is on its side like this.
34:20
The Couch, starring Julian Glover, who was Isle of Blair's
34:24
husband. Oh my word, every time we go to
34:27
medieval times we have to have one of the Glovers in there.
34:31
Absolutely yes. Is that right?
34:33
Are they still married? I.
34:35
Believe so, yes. Oh wowzers, a very talented
34:39
family. Absolutely.
34:41
Have they got children that act? I don't know where it is.
34:45
Next thing you'll be saying Danny Glover from Community is
34:48
their child. No, no, no, I know.
34:54
That Oh, is this the bit where the poor man gets arrowed in the
34:57
back? Yeah, no, no, he gets captured
35:00
first. Actually, he's very pretty as
35:02
well. He looks a bit like William
35:04
Depreo from the Crusade. I can't find exactly when the
35:10
crusade is set, but it's it's around that time.
35:12
It's around the same, sort of. So the armies that they're
35:15
talking about that are off, that's Julian Glover off in
35:19
Palestine or wherever they were fighting the holy war.
35:22
He was Richard the Lionheart, wasn't he?
35:23
Yes, they're off. But right at this, right at this
35:27
moment, while this is happening, Ian Tratton is probably struck
35:32
down, about to get eaten by ants.
35:34
Quite astonishing, you know, 20 years apart.
35:36
In the same time period you could have a Doctor Who story
35:40
absolutely teeming with poetic Shakespearean dialogue, nuanced
35:44
characterisation, realistic dangers.
35:47
And then there's this. And then you've got the crusade
35:49
as well. But I do like the dialogue and
35:55
this, I think, you know, it is obviously it's, it's someone
35:58
writing what they think Shakespeare sounds like.
36:01
But I think it's nice it works, you know?
36:04
I think the dialogue in the crusade sounds like Shakespeare.
36:08
It does. It does, But you know, is it
36:11
necessarily a bad thing that this one doesn't?
36:16
Well, they're doing very different things, like I.
36:18
Mean are you a fan of Shakespeare?
36:21
Really. No, I'm a fan of the dialogue in
36:25
the Crusade. Yeah, you know, are you?
36:28
You know, if you were had, you know, a long day at work on a
36:32
Saturday, when you came home, would you want to sit and watch
36:35
Hamlet, or would you want to sit and watch Doctor Who pretended
36:38
to be Hamlet? I'd rather watch the Crusade, I
36:43
think, but we're watching the King's Demas, and I'll tell you
36:49
what, it's the most I think I've ever enjoyed it, so
36:52
congratulations. Man, he's doing a cartwheel.
36:54
Yeah, I'm not sure, you know, if we should be taking the Mickey
36:57
out of poor little people like this.
36:59
I'm not sticking them in, sticking them in Joker's
37:02
costumes and having them parade about.
37:06
I mean, there's there's that argument, but there's also sort
37:08
of the argument. I think, oh, what's the guy that
37:11
plays to you? And Peter Dinklage, you know,
37:15
he's he's made the argument as well.
37:16
You know that, you know, little people need jobs and you know,
37:21
if you don't employ them in this sort of way, then where else?
37:26
I mean, it's, it's probably more complex argument than that, but
37:30
you know. We've been having a few complex
37:33
arguments that I haven't. We have look, all this fabulous
37:37
feast in front of them. Look, there's a whole pie there.
37:39
There's a a suckling pig, looks like ribs.
37:43
And what's Tegan got in her hands?
37:45
A slice of apple. Yes, she's a vegetarian.
37:48
She. Well, again, it's really quite
37:52
accurate. Historically, you know, the the
37:54
Oba classes ate meat and maybe a little elsewhere.
37:57
It's like your classes are ones that ate the veg.
37:59
Oh, I would have to be upper class and look at that feast, it
38:02
looks amazing. It's the sort of thing look.
38:04
There's a whole roast. Chicken.
38:05
Absolutely yes. Oh, here we go.
38:08
Time for a song to serve with gold the sun.
38:15
Oh man. No riches on there, shall we
38:19
see? Fucking this is this is real
38:22
food or pretend. Fields.
38:24
Oh no, I think it's a pretend food.
38:25
Oh, you sure looks really delicious.
38:28
It looks good, but I think you can.
38:32
Oh, King John. Honestly, get on.
38:35
I'm A Celebrity. You're amazing.
38:39
Britain's Got Talent to me. What?
38:41
And now for the entertainment, they bring in the torture
38:43
device. Oh well, yes, because you know,
38:46
Sergio is French though, therefore he is a bastard.
38:50
Of course. Disclaimer, the French are not
38:52
bastards. No, that's right.
38:57
Oh no, That pretty man's going to be put inside.
39:00
Jeffrey De Lacey. That's his name.
39:02
Jeffrey De Lacey, That would be my name in the past.
39:06
Joe De Lacey. You know, it's, it's a couple of
39:10
centuries from, you know, 1066 in the Norman ovations.
39:13
Everyone, all the nobility have got these French names like De
39:16
Lacey, Estram. That's right, I'm an innocent
39:23
party, all right? It's this fella in the beard
39:25
that's trying to set me up. Yeah, yeah, he's, he's, he's
39:28
obviously a wrong one. No one knows why or who he is,
39:31
but he's clearly a wrong one. I mean, how the Doctor can't say
39:34
that that's Anthony Ainley is beyond me.
39:36
I thought the Doctor was a clever thought man.
39:39
Was it, Was it? I think with Steve Alexander, I
39:40
wasn't like I said this, this episode should just, you know,
39:44
open and close with the TARDIS arrive and the Doctor stepping
39:47
up the title score. That's the Master, that is.
39:51
Can't you do it? It could be like the South Park
39:53
jog. You kill Kenny, but he does it
39:55
every week and every once a season.
39:57
He's right. It's the master.
40:00
Who could it be in the other stories?
40:03
I had him. I had that with Blake 7 didn't
40:05
know where. It seems be when Travis kept the
40:07
piano, he's like, oh, what's that twat doing here?
40:10
I know. When Shivan turned up, you know,
40:12
in all the the bandages and the big eye on the outside, were you
40:17
like Travis? Travis put the googly eye over
40:21
his eye patch. Frazer, I am in.
40:24
Salty does. He ever go the look at his face.
40:30
Are you mad? He's said to be the best
40:33
swordsman in France. Go on, say the line.
40:36
Fortunately, we're in England. That's not a bad line.
40:39
Actually, that's not a. Bad line.
40:40
That's the sort of line that Davison really excels at.
40:44
If you got more lines than this like that and you know 19 and
40:48
20, I think you would have been a lot more keen to see.
40:50
Yeah, he didn't sparkle a lot, did he?
40:53
He had good moments, but he. I just think you know, but you
40:57
get a couple of series in the right as I probably get to know
40:59
him as a person more than you know the script editor.
41:02
You'd like to think getting to know him better as a person and
41:06
knowing the type of character he is as a as an actor and you know
41:13
what you call them? Bid me comes in with front Yas
41:14
and just gives them so many zingers.
41:16
But I think it's it's. Listen, amongst that season you
41:20
speak treason fluently. Fluently.
41:22
You know the toasted little hogcomb?
41:24
He gets great lines into the. Yeah.
41:27
Oh my God. Peter Davidson now is all about
41:29
the set. In fact, it's reminded me a bit
41:31
of the Sea Devils. It's the Doctor and the Master
41:35
in a castle fighting. It's possibly not as good as the
41:38
the the sword fight in. Oh come on, that one.
41:42
Speed up using the video machine.
41:45
It's I think it's really good. Look, you got nice high angle
41:49
shots as well. And I do like the fact we went
41:52
in the corridor. So it isn't just I mean, nothing
41:55
will ever beat the sword fight in the Andrews Atara.
41:57
That's still the that's the the highest bar you can get.
42:02
Oh my God, what's going on with sigils?
42:06
Sigils pulled a vibrator, but it's not sigil, it's the master.
42:10
So you escaped from Zarafas? Lane, Lane.
42:15
Doctor, you have been naive Co. Credits.
42:19
Army. Oh my God.
42:21
You know, I mean, I'm astounded. For not for possibly the reasons
42:26
that the production team wanted, but that is a fantastic
42:30
cliffhanger. Come on, that is brilliant.
42:31
That is just. I actually think, you know,
42:34
that's a pretty good episode 1. As in it is, it sets the scene.
42:38
It's pretty to look at. Everyone gets a chance to be a
42:41
hammy. Yeah, very over the top.
42:45
There's some proper that medieval growly dialogue in it
42:50
and stuff, but it's just so weird because then the story
42:53
just goes off the rails in episode 2.
42:56
Everything that's set up in episode 1 is abandoned.
43:01
But yeah, but at the same time, you know, it doesn't stop being
43:05
fun. It doesn't stop like you know,
43:08
probably have most of these action adventure, but we still
43:11
have a lot of fun to have have in Part 2.
43:14
I think what's really fun about Part 2 is watching just how many
43:17
things they try and make Chameleon do badly because the
43:20
robot's just not ready now come on, please strum the guitar.
43:24
Chameleon, just do something. I think.
43:28
I mean, obviously we'll talk more about Chameleon in Episode
43:32
2 and whether he works or not, but no, I have to admit, that's
43:37
not a bad Episode 1. Actually, it's fun.
43:39
Isn't it? It's good fun.
43:40
Good. No, Fraser, I think I've been
43:42
saying this a lot lately, actually.
43:44
I think that's better when you watch it with a friend, you
43:46
know, and you can point out both the really bad bits and the
43:50
really good bits, rather than just concentrating on the really
43:53
bad bits. Well, I mean, this is it, you
43:55
know, you said, oh, you, you, you must, This is why you enjoy
43:58
all this shit, Doctor Who, because you know, the way you
44:00
watch it and that's it is a bit of a conscious choice.
44:03
I think. I do.
44:04
I think, you know, it's, it's very easy to, you know, focus on
44:09
the negatives and say, Oh well this is rubbish and this is bad,
44:12
you know. But when you have got something
44:14
that is possibly not as good, it's a lot harder but a lot more
44:18
rewarding to go looking for the the positive bits for the the
44:22
good bits. But what's battled me there is,
44:25
given that I'm so mean about the King's Steamers all the time, is
44:28
it wasn't hard for me to find things that I enjoyed there.
44:32
Some of the camera work was quite exciting.
44:36
I mean, I couldn't hear the ghastly music, thank God.
44:38
So that was a plus. Certainly the location work was
44:41
beautiful and the the the location that they chose it was
44:45
yeah, the money was on the screen there.
44:47
The action looked pretty good like that, wasn't hard to find
44:50
positives I don't think. No, because you've set your
44:52
expectation at the right level and at the right tone of what's
44:56
coming up. Well, let's see if we can find
44:59
out whether episode 2 shall continue this delights of
45:02
action, intrigue and excitement. Let's do it.