Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 587: Finding a Middle Ground on Predators

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Ep. 587: Finding a Middle Ground on Predators · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you
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  Speaker 1: by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands,
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  Speaker 1: or scouting for ELK. First Light has performance apparel to
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  Speaker 1: support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at
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  Speaker 1: first light dot com. F I R S T L
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: I T E dot com. All right, everybody, we're joined
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: today by John Stallone and Charles Whitman from Howell for Wildlife,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: which is an organization you hear more and more about
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: as they have been heavily involved in some of the
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: fights to preserve our hunting rights around the country.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Welcome guys, Thank you for having us.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: Thanks, yeah, thank you.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I know that. I think my first introduction to you
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: guys was was uh. Jannis was one of the first
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: people I heard mentioned in it, and he would maybe
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I had heard of you, but doing trivia a long
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: time ago. I think Gianni's made a donation the Hole
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: for Wildlife and uh, and so he brought you guys
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: onto our radar. Then increasingly you guys have come up
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: in conversations and stuff you're working on around the Colorado
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Hunting Band vote, coming up with some other issues. So
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to spend some time with you guys
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: talking about uh, some things that have happened, some things
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: that might happened in the efforts to preserve everyone's hunting rights.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: So we will get to that shortly. Thanks for coming.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Meet it or TV YouTube channel now, not to be
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: confused with the YouTube channel where you watch our podcast network,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: which now has its own channel. Tell him Krinn.
• 1:59
  Speaker 4: All right, So we've got a new podcast network, Meet
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: Eater podcast Network YouTube channel, which is distinct from the
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Meet Eater TV YouTube channel and the mediat podcast network
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  Speaker 4: channel on YouTube is going to be the place where
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: you can listen to and importantly watch all of our
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  Speaker 4: all of the network podcasts. And if you are watching
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  Speaker 4: us right now, that means you're already on that channel.
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: But please make sure you give it yeah welcome. Please
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: make sure you give a subscribe as well so that
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: when these pop up, you'll you'll get those alerts.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: If on the regular channel, on the regular Mediator TV
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: YouTube channel, go right now and check out white tail edu.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: So in this world you got ed not great, which
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: gets a lot at You got eed C, which is
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: your pocket night. I remember when that didn't exist. Yeah,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: that would just it was a pocket knife. Now it's
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: an e DC. And then you got EDU meaning white
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: tail Edu on the Media to YouTube channel. It's with
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon Tony Peterson. It's a short video series running
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: through September. UH to get you in the mindset for
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the fall hunting season and provide all kind of tips
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and tricks for uh getting after white tails.
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  Speaker 5: Man.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Those guys are great too. On the way on the
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: white tail front, I grew up hunting white tails. We
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: would just kind of put a tree in the same
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: put a tree stand in the same stuff. Yeah, out
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: on the point. So you just watched deer that were
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: five hundred. No, you couldn't see that.
• 3:45
  Speaker 6: Far, Tony was telling me.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: And they left before I ever got it really figured out.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: But these guys got it figured out.
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  Speaker 6: Their number one request is people will send them on
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  Speaker 6: X pins and say where would you kill a due?
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  Speaker 7: Where should I?
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  Speaker 6: Where should I set up?
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  Speaker 2: Do?
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  Speaker 3: They reply?
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  Speaker 6: Their reply is listen and figure it out for yourself. Yes,
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  Speaker 6: the whole teach man to fish.
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  Speaker 1: Dude after hunting after Tony and I went down and
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  Speaker 1: last fall and hunt some public land down in Oklahoma,
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  Speaker 1: and watching that dude like uh, kind of put that
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: whole thing together, like just basically scouting on the fly
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  Speaker 1: and then making determinations.
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  Speaker 7: He's taken in all kinds of information you might know.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: It's like six cents stuff, dude, it's sixth sense stuff.
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  Speaker 6: Like you didn't sit there and be like, oh I
• 4:41
  Speaker 6: could do this.
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  Speaker 8: No, it probably becomes six cents if you're constantly doing
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  Speaker 8: doing something in a certain way and like keeping track
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  Speaker 8: of certain things. It probably becomes like an instinct.
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  Speaker 1: After what white tails are doing. When they're doing you know,
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  Speaker 1: like you can take someone and show them, but you
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: know you might not notice, but look that's a deer trail, right,
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  Speaker 1: and they'll eventually figure that out. But sort of his
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  Speaker 1: his like I don't know, I think around four o'clock
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  Speaker 1: he's gonna come down there, stand right there and eat
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: an acorn. It's it's incredible, man, he's good on those
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: dudes are good on white tails. It's fun to see.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: We also have a new live streaming podcast called me
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Eater Radio. Live starts in a few days, so you
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: want to check that out. It's the Field Report all
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: from around the country. Live correspondence from around the country
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: telling you what they're up to, what's going on, what's
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: the news in the area, what's the hot bite in
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: the area, what kind of tattoos did they get they
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: might later regret whatever. Field Reports from around the country,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Alaska to Florida, New York to Hawaii and all points
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: in between. You'll be hearing from some of the hardest
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: hitting outdoorsmen out there as they give you live reports
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: on what's going on in their area and in their lives.
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: But also co anchored by a combination of you Cal Brody, Randall, Spencer,
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: Yanni yep uh so nice peppering of different personalities from
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: across our network. And you will be able to watch
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: it live on the podcast.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: But then you watch it later too. You want to
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: watch it live, watch it live, yea. Turks and Caicos
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: repeals the law that has all the Americans locked up.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: They walked the law back a little bit that has
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: all the Americans locked up. If you hadn't heard about this,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: We've covered this and interviewed some of the people and
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: covered it on our website, covered it on podcasts. Turks
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  Speaker 1: and Caicos passes really strict uh gun law which which
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: had a minimum uh was it twelve I think twelve
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: years minimum jail time for gun, Yeah, for for possession
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  Speaker 1: firearm possession. And the way they wrote it, we roll
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: up even if you had a shell and no gun
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  Speaker 1: to shoot it from. And they caught. Once this law
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: was passed and started being strictly enforced, they caught five
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  Speaker 1: American tourists summer, all of them coming out of the
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: country leaving Turks and Caicos with a stray round or
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: a stray few rounds of AMMO left over from hunting
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  Speaker 1: season in their backpack. Jailed all these guys. A congressional
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  Speaker 1: delegation went down there. There's a guy from Pennsylvania, so
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I know, like fetterman from Pennsylvania went down there. There's
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: a guy from Oklahoma, so a congressman from Oklahoma, on
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and on. Congressman from all these different states went down
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: there to try to put some heat on Turks and
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  Speaker 1: Caicos to give the guys back, because clearly in this situation,
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  Speaker 1: it's like, first they don't have a firearm to match
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: the ammo. Second they've already gotten somehow they got into
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: the country like.
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  Speaker 7: Favor by taking Ammo out of the country.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it'd be, you know, it'd be like some
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: some honey Ammo. They got into the country, stayed the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: whole time, and now they're leaving and you catch them
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  Speaker 1: on the way out the door with a bullet or
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: two in their bag. And so this US congressional delegation
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: goes down there and says, come on, I mean, come
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  Speaker 1: on right. And I had earlier I had wondered, like,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: what would be the leverage that the US would apply
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  Speaker 1: to Turks and Caicos. The one thing that that I
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: realized in some reading I did this morning. Leverage they
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  Speaker 1: could apply is a state department issues of warning like
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: don't go to you know, warning businesses don't do business
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  Speaker 1: in Turks and Caicos because they're a little over zealous,
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  Speaker 1: and warn US citizens, hey be careful going to Turks
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  Speaker 1: and Caicos, which can really when when you have a
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: country whose economy is based on tourism. So apparently that's
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  Speaker 1: the pressure they put on. And meanwhile they've been slowly
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: letting these guys out. They held one guy in jail
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  Speaker 1: for one hundred days, he got out on time, served
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: another guy came home because he's got bad health problems.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: One of the two guys we interviewed his home. Another
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  Speaker 1: one's gonna find out today or tomorrow. And meanwhile, they
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: walked back the wording on the they walked back the
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: wording on the legislation. Still still check your bags, dude.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm always yelling at my little boy because
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: he's super careless of twenty two shells. Put the things
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  Speaker 1: back in the box.
• 9:31
  Speaker 7: I got detained for a little while in Anchorage.
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  Speaker 2: I got I got rolled up in Mexico.
• 9:37
  Speaker 7: Yeah, Mexico. I'd rather get detained an anchored.
• 9:39
  Speaker 8: I was scary because you were in what happened there.
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  Speaker 8: So again, I was coming back across the border and
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  Speaker 8: I had shotgun shells underneath the back seat of my
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  Speaker 8: truck because I had gotten coyote hunting, like like a
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  Speaker 8: week before we went there.
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  Speaker 6: Well, it's also just where shotgun shells.
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  Speaker 8: Live, exactly, And you know they were just you want
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  Speaker 8: a routine inspection, checking for if I was bringing fruit
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  Speaker 8: or whatever. And they've found these two shells, and they
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  Speaker 8: pulled me and my family the US side of the
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  Speaker 8: Mexico side and Mexico side.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, I got it.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah, So I was kind of, you know, crap in
• 10:13
  Speaker 8: my pants a little bit because I didn't know. I
• 10:15
  Speaker 8: was there with my kids and my wife.
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  Speaker 2: Luckily I had my whole fit.
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  Speaker 8: My parents were with us, my uncles were with us.
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  Speaker 8: We were like down there for a whole thing. So
• 10:24
  Speaker 8: eventually they just took the shells, throw them out and
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  Speaker 8: let us go. But it was a little harry for
• 10:29
  Speaker 8: a little bit there.
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  Speaker 6: I want to I want to know, like what percentage
• 10:36
  Speaker 6: of government spending goes into stuff like this when we
• 10:39
  Speaker 6: all bitch about government overspending, Like, well, we had to
• 10:43
  Speaker 6: send a congressional delegation because some folks on vacation had
• 10:48
  Speaker 6: a couple of shells in their pocket. I'd just like
• 10:52
  Speaker 6: to know. But I could guarantee the like, thank God
• 10:55
  Speaker 6: for the US government.
• 10:56
  Speaker 7: They probably worked in a little vacation while they were
• 10:58
  Speaker 7: down there.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's totally hilarious. I don't want to
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: say the name. But there's a subject we've been wanting
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: to have h we wanting to do another episode on
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: wild horses, wildhorse, the wildhorse wild Borough subject. So I
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: was telling Krin, was like, I really want to find
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: like a guest who's got deep, deep history, deep personal
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: on the ground history with the issue of wild horses,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: the wild Horse and Burrough Protection Act, unintended consequences of
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the wild Horse and Burrough Protection Act, the kind of
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: insanity of shipping these horses to Oklahoma and paying farmers
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: to raise them until they die of old age because
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: there's no other outlet for them. All that, and I
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: start eyeballing this guy that seems great on the subject.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: And I said to Krint, once you find this guy
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: and see if you'll come on the show. And last
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: night Krinn sends me a article and like we'll share
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: articles all the time. And I'm reading the article thinking
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: that there's like a hunting and fishing angle to it.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: And it's an article about this guy who's embezzling money
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: from a university by just weird little petty things, like
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: he would like expense report, he would take a company
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: car but then fill out an expense report as though
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: he took his own car, right. Or he would have
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: his daughters getting married somewhere, so he would book a
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: big house for the family to be at the wedding,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: but then he would schedule a meeting and then white
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: out the details and submit the white out certain details
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: on the invoice, and submit the invoice for reimbursement.
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: He's got a shitload of markers and staples at his house.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm reading the article thinking that I'm going
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: to get to a part where he's using a company
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: truck for hunting and fishing, Like, I don't know, I'm waiting.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I'm waiting for the hunting and fishing angle. And I
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: text her him like I don't see the relevance of
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: what you just sent me, and she goes, that's the
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: guy that you've been telling me to.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Get out of.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, oh, I guess we're back to the
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: drawing board.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I think we know some people. We know some people.
• 13:05
  Speaker 7: We talked about it later.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: We've done some actions on wild.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Horses, fair horses and all that in Arizona specific.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So if you are a here's the catch.
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: You can't you cannot be God bless you. This is
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: not like a this is not not, this is not
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: meaning any disrespect, not. You can't be an agency person.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: You can be a former agency person, but you can't
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: be a current agency person because it's the kind of
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: issue where if you if you're an agency person, you're
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: going to be restricted on what you can say, and
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: you're gonna be reluctant to share your own opinions because
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: of retribution. Former agency person or other professional ten yared
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: a person who's tenured somewhere and can just talk about
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: the issue, and they and you could be free to say,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I'll tell you the crazy part about this,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: or here's the part that everybody thinks is crazy, but
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: it's not so crazy, and just a real someone who
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: really sees all sides of it, understands arguments on both ends.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Cal's looking at me like he wants the job.
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: At the same time, I want somebody from the horse
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: sausage industry.
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: Come down from the glue factory.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no agency people, and you know, we're open to
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: a glue factory person, but he's gotta you gotta be
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: a well rounded glue factory person. Uh So there's a
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: call to action. The the the pronunciation on the Roosevelt
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Roosevelt family deepens. Do you ready for this?
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: Guy?
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Wrote in who's this person's name?
• 14:46
  Speaker 5: Her?
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Michelle? Michelle? What's dBm and MS mean that?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: That wrote in.
• 14:55
  Speaker 6: They're getting paid for this somehow?
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I actually need to call her about this pigeons.
• 15:00
  Speaker 7: It's a little.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Late now, but I want to know.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: That I did.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Well, that's who we called, but we didn't call her.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: We called her. We kind of jumped the gun and
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: already burned some, burned some, you know, we call it
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Goodwill called her a couple of times about non issues,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: and then when we had an issue, I was like,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: are we really going to call her again about these pigeons?
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: She might appreciate it.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I think a little bit I gathered from her tonality
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: was a little bit of like, why did you go
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: get them right?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: This all seems very preventable.
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: I do need to talk to this person though, Veterinary
• 15:44
  Speaker 6: microbiology Snort's got some gut health issues that we need
• 15:47
  Speaker 6: to figure out.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Call her up.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Here's what she has to say right Here's what she
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: had to say right now, Michelle. She says some interesting
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: history surrounding the Roosevelt family in pronuncie of the name
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: I have period. I've always jumped back and forth and
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: had been intellectually too lazy to figure out what it
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: actually was, so I would sometimes do ruse and sometimes
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: do rose. And I was corrected that when speaking of Theodore.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: It's Roosevelt, and he spelled, he articulated very clearly in letters,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and that's how he likes it to be. But hear this.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: My husband got on a presidential biography kick, and around
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the time our son was born, he was working through
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Edmund Morris's three part biography of Theodore Roosevelt. This became
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: my son's first bedtime story, as he loved to read
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: aloud for him every night, and even threw in an
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: attempt at an old timey accent, Phil do your old
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: timey accent from people in movies from the early movie days?
• 16:57
  Speaker 8: Well, hey, there, Chap, how you doing. You've got a
• 16:59
  Speaker 8: nice looking mouth, like to kiss it?
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: And then do the what's the big idea? Here? And
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: so you want to be a star? Hey, what's the
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: big idea?
• 17:10
  Speaker 7: You want to be a star?
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Don't you.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: Still? Specially last name? Yeah? Where was that?
• 17:18
  Speaker 9: Oh?
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Somewhere In this trilogy was an explanation of the history
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: of the family, which was intertwined with the differences in pronunciation.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: There are historically two different groups of Roosevelts, the Hyde
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Park clan and the Oyster Bay Clan, who are each
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: based from two different sons of the hell's that name?
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Klaus Martins, marts and Von.
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: I think it's Marten.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: That sounds like a name you'd have.
• 17:52
  Speaker 7: The important Rosenbelt.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: But I like that whole name because it makes you.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: It makes it's like, you know, so there's the thing
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I've become interested in. It's like there's certain names you'll
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: see and you know they're rich.
• 18:06
  Speaker 7: Yeah, we hit on that the other day. What is
• 18:08
  Speaker 7: that guy's name?
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: I can't remember.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Braxton, Braxton, Saxon Axton. Yeah, yeah, it's like they know,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: like rich. I wonder if it works as if I
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: name my kid a rich name. If I was like,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna name him Thurston so.
• 18:28
  Speaker 7: He become rich.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, will money just flow his way because you
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: named your kid Dave? I mean, who knows, could go anywhay.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: But if I named him Thurston von Renel in the ninth,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: does money just show up?
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Likely he's gonna be getting calls for sure.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Klaus Martins and von Roosevelt, who arrived in New Amsterdam
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: around sixteen forty, meaning that family showed up in Manhattan
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: and sixteen forty. That's a good way to make money. Actually,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: I think the money followed the name Theodore Roosevelt was
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: part of the Oyster Bay branch who pronounced the name Roosevelt.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Franklin D. Roosevelt was part of the Hyde Park clan
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: who pronounced the name Roosevelt. So technically the pronunciation indicates
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: which branch of the family you are referring to. That's great,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: So that confuses things even more so. Now when you're
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: talking about the Great Depression and you're going to talk
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: about Franklin delan No, you need to go like, Okay,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: what was it again? That's right Roosevelt. And if you're
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: talking about the trustbusters in the early conservation movement and Theodore,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: you gotta go, what was it again?
• 19:52
  Speaker 7: That's right Roosevelt? Elt though, well, I don't know right.
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: I think we should say cows deer are our deer
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: that reside in Arizona, New Mexico, whereas cou's deer are
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: the ones we hunt in Mexico.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I would I would beg to argue with that.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Are you are you a cole's or a cousman?
• 20:13
  Speaker 8: I'm a cousman, and everybody that I know sayscus and
• 20:15
  Speaker 8: I live in Arizona.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: So when I wanted to know, I checked with Chris Denim,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: who's written said it more than anybody on the planet,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: and he said, till the day I die exactly.
• 20:26
  Speaker 8: There's nobody that says cows deer unless.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: There's one. We're just one non pretentious person that says it,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: and it's half a finger.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: But he's a stickler. He's a stickler.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: We had spelled one one of our things online. We
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: had spelled what state we spelled. We spelled Nevada wrong,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: and Jim texts me. He says, there are two ways
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: to pronounce Nevada, but one way to spell it.
• 20:52
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: This guy wrote in a nuclear and r f K Junior.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: So we recently re interviewed RFK Jr. And talked about
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: which I remain I'm not. I feel that we need
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: to be leaned. I'll just say I feel that, without
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: really knowing what I'm talking about, I feel that we
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: need to be leaning very heavily that direction, he says.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: The guy rites in, I am the plant manager of
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: a nuclear plant and need to remain anonymous due to
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: company policy. I listened to the podcast religiously. In this
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: week's discussion on nuclear power was upsetting our FK made
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: two points on nuclear nuclear that were stated as facts
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: and are both completely false. I'm not looking to force
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: an opinion on anyone, just correct some bad information. Our
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: FK stated nuclear is heavily subsidized. Not true. We do
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: not receive the carbon credits, wind and solar benefit from
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I had no idea that that was true. If you
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: get a new a little game, well, who's right. But
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna trust. I'm gonna give this guy that I'm
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: gonna trusted. This guy's craig for this week. He goes on,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: I think we should because nuclear is carbon free as well,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: but that's an opinion. We do get some recovery payment
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: from the government for spent fuel storage, but that is
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: not a subsidy. The money is repayment for all the
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: money we spent on the failed Yucca Mountain government project.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Without getting into the weeds too much, just for people,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: the Yucca Mountain project was there was a plan. We
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: have all kinds of nuclear ways stored in places that
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: are not long term storage, and for a while there
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: was a plan to augur a deep, deep hole in
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the area that's regarded to be one of the most
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: geologically stable areas in the country and store and then
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: lead seal the stuff into a mountain, which sounds bad
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: until you consider that it's all somewhere already. Anyway, two
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: primary arguments against it. One, you got to get it there. Okay,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: so all this stuff woul then need to be transported,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: which some people argue would be a huge security and
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: environmental risk to transport it. Other people say, well, you
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: got to do something with it because it's not good
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: where it is. The other issue is Native Americans in
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: in was yucka mountain? Nevada or Arizona? Sorry I don't
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: know this Nevada, right, I think, so type it in
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: real quick, please.
• 23:37
  Speaker 8: There's definitely two in Arizona, Nevada.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: And I think it was the Navajo who were of
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the opinion, don't put that ship here on our land.
• 23:51
  Speaker 6: Understandable.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: So there's that two. It's point two. RFK was empathetic
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: about the lack of insurance for nuclear plants Western Nation.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: Okay, there you go, sorry about that.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: RFK was emphatic about the lack of insurance for nuclear plants.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: This is again completely false. Now I got to clarify
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: to the person writing in, he wasn't He wasn't talking
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: about a lack of insurance for nuclear plants. He's talking
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: about the astronomically high cost of insurance for nuclear plants,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: meaning people think that anti nuclear people are hippies and
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: tie dies. And he said, you also have to blame
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: guys and ties on Wall Street. I don't think they
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: wear ties on Wall Street anymore. They unbutton Yeah, they
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: unbuttoned the top button.
• 24:42
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: He was saying. The real the problem there is cost
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: of insurance, meaning Wall Street guys don't want to insure.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: So a little bit of a squabble there on that.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: But again he says, this is again completely false. Nuclear
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: plants are heavily insured by.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: Multiple com companies.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: One update, though, because the Senate just passed a bill
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: to support advanced nuclear deployment. So it passed. The Senate
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: passed the bill to accelerate the deployment of nuclear energy capacity,
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: including by speeding, permitting, and creating new incentives for advanced
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: nuclear reactor technologies. And this passed eighty eight to two.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Oh you.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: In on this.
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: The real reason?
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: No, no, no, she's uh hedging her bets on on Awama.
• 25:45
  Speaker 7: I can also see I can also see.
• 25:47
  Speaker 6: Act manipulate the stock market rolling through the Nasdak during
• 25:53
  Speaker 6: this whole podcast, just got grafts going on.
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: Me on me, I'm just gonna really manipulate it. And
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: it's going to Joe Biden for signature to become law.
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: I'm not exactly sure when that's gonna be.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: But the guy concludes he even gives his first name.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I don't even read his damn first name. It's A.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: It's A.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: I'll I'll give a hint. He has the same first
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: name as a very popular country musician. I could go
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: into a great deal, great detail in each of these points,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: but in the interest of brevity, I won't. I do
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: sense a sincere curiosity, especially if Steve anytime nuclear comes
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: up on the podcast, it would be great to have
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: an expert on to speak in facts and allow listeners
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: to decide for themselves. I love, I love what you
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: guys are doing. Keep up the good work. If you're
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: sitting at home or driving in your truck wondering why
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: we're talking about this on a show about wildlife and
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing and whatnot, I'll lay it out for
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: you very very briefly. As the country moves toward, As
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the country moves toward renewables, and I think we're going
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to retract from renewables because I do not think like
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: there's no there's no way Biden's gonna win in November,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: so we're gonna see it. We're gonna see a retraction
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: on renewables. But if we do push ahead on renewables,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: there's this conversation about how much of our public lands
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: do we put over to renewables. And when I look
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: as a as an energy novice, when I look at
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: the the huge movement, I'm struggling forwards. When I look
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: at how heavily we're spending on moving toward renewable energy,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I just can't see why we're not moving heavily aggressively
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: into research and deployment of nuclear energy because the footprints
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: so small.
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: And how hopefully I mean, I guess that's reveals my perspective,
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: but hopefully, And it seems like potentially from certain you know, legislation,
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: that there is momentum behind that. And I think that
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: there are people driving markets, you know, all these AI
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: investors who are actually talking to nuclear so that might become.
• 28:19
  Speaker 6: Because of the huge power needs of Aially exactly.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: It's either it's either we go back and double down
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: on fossil fuels. We plaster our coastlines with wind farms
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and convert hundreds of thousands of acres of BLM to
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: solar arrays and wind. I'm not trying to make it
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: like like a rock and a hard spot, but it's
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a rock and a hard spot.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: And I can't get satisfied around the idea. I know
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: that we had these huge crises three Mile Island, Chernoble,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: what's the Japan. Yeah, the tsunami that wiped out the
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Fukushima power plant. Like I understand all of that, but
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: my god, do I feel like we need to be
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: taking that stuff more seriously?
• 29:05
  Speaker 6: Well, how about this bs on batteries? Like the solution
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: is coming up with bigger batteries, Like that's I do
• 29:15
  Speaker 6: not believe that for a fricking second.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Did you hear Trump lay out his concerns about big batteries.
• 29:20
  Speaker 6: No, but I just changed batteries and at my house
• 29:24
  Speaker 6: last night, and I'm like, here's this thing. And my
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: place is right next to Pacific Steel and Recycling. Huge
• 29:31
  Speaker 6: shout out to that places, because it's like the most
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: fun place I go. You can recycle anything. And then yeah,
• 29:37
  Speaker 6: and then you get paid for it. It's awesome and
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: there's a bunch of real interesting folks down there. Awesome
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: documentary to be made. I could waste a lot of
• 29:46
  Speaker 6: time at Pacific Steel. Uh you know what, they don't
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: recycle any type of battery. Why not because it's trash.
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: They're like, you can't recycle that poisons.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: But why are they always paying that?
• 29:59
  Speaker 6: Why are they always Well, there's people who can recycle
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: the lead out of lead core batteries.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Oh they don't want lithiums.
• 30:08
  Speaker 6: Yep, no alkaline. Uh you know, no double as, triple as.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Oh that kind of battery. Okay, Yeah, when you said batteries,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: my head immediately went to the fact that you can
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: get money for a car battery. But that's right, that's
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: a fraction of allt.
• 30:20
  Speaker 6: But like these lithium batteries and stuff like that is like,
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: it's just it's trash, man.
• 30:26
  Speaker 7: You don't want to get them wet either, or take
• 30:28
  Speaker 7: them on an airplane.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Brody and I were laughing there at Eggs. I was
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: watching this clip. I kept hearing that Trump was talking
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: a lot about shark attacks. I was like, what, So
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I was watching this clip and he's talking about boats
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: like vessels now with these huge battery powered vessels, and
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: he's laying out a scenario where the vessel is sinking
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: and you have a lot of electricity in the water
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: and you're faced with a do you stay with the
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: boat or risk shark attack by getting away from the boat.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: And he really had shark attacks on his mind. He
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: had been a woman had just lost the leg a shark.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Maybe in Florida, and you see.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people in the audience were a little confused.
• 31:06
  Speaker 10: But he was back on the other day.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: It's funny that he's Uh, I'd like him to come on.
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: Did you catch when you talk about sharks that you
• 31:15
  Speaker 6: struggled with the word nuclear always my whole life?
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 31:18
  Speaker 6: Do you remember the the Bush clips?
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: No? Do you have a hard time with.
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: It Bush number two? Yeah, there's a great, great series
• 31:27
  Speaker 6: of nuclear.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: That that was a big thing. Is this guy that
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: wrote in you know where he's from, perhaps from Michigan.
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: On the nuclear part? Oh, he can't say that.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: I can't say.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: He won't even say I grew up right next to a.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Form nuclear power plant in Michigan.
• 31:44
  Speaker 9: Was his name? Luke?
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say?
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Luke said the country music.
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: Has to be kept quiet.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Well, how do you know what his name is? That Whalen?
• 31:56
  Speaker 9: I know?
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no Waylon was my second guess, sure, yeah, or
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: George could have been George, or Tana could have been Garth, Garth,
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Tanya George, Yeah, Tanya be.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Dolly dude. That song Delta don oh dude, I love it. Yeah,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: she was a teenager.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: Oh have you ever looked at the YouTube Grand Old Aubrey.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Good stuff?
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that's great.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: She almost had a big role in Jeremiah Johnson. Did
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: you know that? No, she wout up having a small
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: role in Jeremiah Johnson.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: H Oh, she did have one.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, you could do it. I shouldn't throw this
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: out there because maybe some day, well you could do
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: a whole documentary on Jeremia Johnson. Here's a good one
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: for you guys. It's a chettaquot question. Chettiicut meaning Chester's
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: not even here. It means it's an etequatet question, and
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: we normally defer to Chester, who likes etiquette. He's not
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: even here, so I guess it's more of an etiquette question.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: It's a good one. I'm seeking guidance on a recent
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: dilemma I have been troubled with, so it's not so
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: recent anymore. But from the spring, he says, I live
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: in a mid Atlantic state. He's he doesn't want to
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: tell a mid Atlantic state. He doesn't want to get done.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: He doesn't want people to narrow down to what state
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: he's in. I live in a state with a robust
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: turkey uppercase tea population. This season, I hunted the woods
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: behind my house. You always know where it's going when
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: someone hunts the woods behind their house. I had several
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: close encounters at the same time and never filled my tag.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Three days after the season ended, I woke up to
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: the barks and growls of my Labrador retriever uppercase R.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: He was right to uppercase the l and wrong to
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: uppercase the R. I looked out my bedroom window to
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: see that the same tom had found itself trapped inside
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: my garden plot, which is surrounded by an eight foot fence.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: I watched as the bird retreated, repeatedly, tried to take flight,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: hit the fence, and run around the garden, tearing up
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: my plants. My immediate thought was to grab my twelve
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: gage and protect my crops. Hear them out. Suddenly, every
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: segment of Chetticut popped in my head. I felt as
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: though I was biased and wanting a turkey in my freezer.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah maybe, and that my rationale and protecting my crops
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: may be impaired by the frustration of the prior turkey season.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I don't rely on my garden for survival, but I
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: do appreciate my homegrown veggies. I called my States Game
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Ward and dispatch several times and was told to leave
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: a message and that someone would get back to me.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: The Department of Natural Resources website states homeowners are strictly
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: prohibited from trapping and shooting wildlife outside regulated seasons unless
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: the animal has been actively causing property damage or is
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: an obvious threat to public health and safety. Eventually, I
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: was able to get the garden gate open and scare
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: the bird out, damaging even more plans.
• 35:17
  Speaker 10: I don't understand the Eventually, I would like the tinges
• 35:21
  Speaker 10: were rusted.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know, he doesn't say. After a closer inspection
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: of the garden, I wish I shot the bird on
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: site because he took out my onion.
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: Patch that I worked real hard on.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: It's been three days and the game war and has
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: it called my buddies will giving a lot of crap
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: for not shooting the bird. My question is what I
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: have been right to shoot the bird? It was actively
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: causing damage.
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: If you this is where if you're a hunter, you
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: cannot shoot that bird. If you have a hunting license,
• 35:56
  Speaker 6: You're you're not gonna end up on the right side
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: of the story.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: And we're I'm too killed.
• 36:01
  Speaker 7: I have so many questions though, how to get in
• 36:03
  Speaker 7: there in the first.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: P Well, I've been waiting to share this. I was
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: in the situation he's in. I didn't have a fence
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: around my garden. When I got a fence around my garden,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't a day and there was a
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: turkey in there because the dog chased a turkey up
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: on the roof of the house. When the turkey pitched
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: off the roof of the house, he landed in that
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: garden and proceeded to run all over freaking out until
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: we were able to get him out of the fence.
• 36:30
  Speaker 7: Yeah, they have trouble with fences.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: I'll point out to this gentleman. It never the thought
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: never occurred in my mind to kill that turkey.
• 36:39
  Speaker 7: He was just sorry he didn't get.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I think that if you I think that you that
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: that because you were trying to kill that turkey and
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: got duped. And then if you did kill that turkey,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: now you would always be suspect. Always, there would always be.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to put suspicion.
• 37:05
  Speaker 10: Yeah, in the neighborhood. I understand the wanting to protect
• 37:08
  Speaker 10: your garden. I was eyeballing a cottontail this morning that
• 37:11
  Speaker 10: was drifting towards my garden.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: And Brody's got a domestic cat giving him a lot
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: of good deal. Oh that gross unit. This garden as
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: an outhouse, which infuriates Brody. Oh the cat, it might
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: as well be defecating in Brodie's mouth.
• 37:26
  Speaker 10: Yes, I tried non lethal deterrence like laying sticks over
• 37:30
  Speaker 10: the garden, but it's not working.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: So it might as well defecate in Brodie's mouth for
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: all the internet to bring.
• 37:37
  Speaker 7: The game on that cat.
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: Well, your kids get diseased because of that thing, I
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: don't know.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: And in the garden they're going to get toxo plasmos yeah,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: not toxic, and the you know what they're going to do,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: They're gonna make risky investments. This is all true. I'm
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: not making this up. They're gonna get toxo. They're going
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: to make risky investments. They're going to drive too fast,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: they're gonna be too hot headed and too prone to fighting.
• 38:04
  Speaker 7: That cat's gotta go.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: It's either that or they lose all their money. Do
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: you find them making risky bets with one another already?
• 38:12
  Speaker 7: I've noticed some weird behavior lately.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: It's toxo. Or they become a weird cat lady, which
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: is also linked to toxo.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: That's not gonna happen.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Well, No, when you become a weird cat lady, horder.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: Toxo.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: When you become a guy that drives too fast and
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: tries to evade arrest and makes bad bets and likes
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: going to casinos, toxo.
• 38:36
  Speaker 7: Gotcha.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to do some research there.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: This guy's describing me to a team.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: That's my problem.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Moving on, Maggie Hudlow is joining us from Wyoming. Hello,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: what's covered up by a tarp in the background. I've
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: been dying to know.
• 38:58
  Speaker 9: Oh, that's our straw very patch. We've got a little
• 39:03
  Speaker 9: hoop house thing there. We've got another bigger vegetable garden
• 39:07
  Speaker 9: up on the other side of the house.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Are you keeping cold out or pass out?
• 39:14
  Speaker 9: Uh? Well, the dogs really like to dig around in there,
• 39:17
  Speaker 9: and it's been below freezing the last few nights, so
• 39:22
  Speaker 9: little of both.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, keeping the cat keeping Brody's house cat out of there,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: So give us give us a dispatch. Oh sorry, go ahead,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: we have a slight delay.
• 39:33
  Speaker 9: Oh yeah, sorry about that. The uh don't have too
• 39:38
  Speaker 9: much trouble with cats with all the dogs running around
• 39:41
  Speaker 9: this yard.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Maggie Hudlow is a colleague of ours here meat Eater,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: a very prolific writer. You can always find her work
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: at the meat eater dot com. And Maggie's gonna give
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: us the whelming dispatch and lay out some of the
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: the aftermath of the incident where individual had struck a
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: wolf with a snowmobile and then taped its mouth shut
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: and paraded it around town in a very distasteful incident
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: that had some far reaching consequences.
• 40:20
  Speaker 9: Go ahead, Maggie, Yeah, thanks, Steve. I mean when I
• 40:27
  Speaker 9: first heard the news, I had a couple thoughts, and
• 40:34
  Speaker 9: it was like, what a thoughtless dumb ass, Like what
• 40:40
  Speaker 9: a terrible thing to do. And also the second thought
• 40:45
  Speaker 9: was that this is gonna blow up and get just huge,
• 40:49
  Speaker 9: and it did immediately, so kind of local repercussions that
• 40:58
  Speaker 9: have been not necessarily as publicly news. There have been
• 41:06
  Speaker 9: a lot of people you know, connected to Cody through
• 41:10
  Speaker 9: family I know, that have been getting death threats. The
• 41:14
  Speaker 9: Green River Bar where the incident happened, they've been getting
• 41:19
  Speaker 9: you know, threatened, game wardens, people, small businesses in town
• 41:26
  Speaker 9: have been getting just like hundreds of one star reviews
• 41:31
  Speaker 9: by people they've never met, just angry animal activists, and
• 41:38
  Speaker 9: all that has done like these strangers kind of infiltrating
• 41:46
  Speaker 9: this really like close knit small town. It's just made
• 41:51
  Speaker 9: people want to side with Cody more than anything because
• 41:56
  Speaker 9: they know him as a person and he's never you know,
• 42:00
  Speaker 9: threatened to kill them or their family or anything. So
• 42:05
  Speaker 9: what's happened is this like massive polarization, and you have
• 42:11
  Speaker 9: these animal rights activists that want something to happen and
• 42:14
  Speaker 9: are doing it in the worst way possible. And then
• 42:19
  Speaker 9: you have this established culture of hate against predators in
• 42:27
  Speaker 9: Wyoming that is like already existed, but now it's had
• 42:33
  Speaker 9: this international spotlight shown on it, and essentially right now
• 42:40
  Speaker 9: it's like you're either on this side or you're on
• 42:43
  Speaker 9: this side, you're either for animal rights or you're for
• 42:47
  Speaker 9: killing wolves. And I think we need to have more
• 42:52
  Speaker 9: conversations that meet a little bit more in the middle,
• 42:56
  Speaker 9: Like we need predator management in this area is a
• 43:01
  Speaker 9: huge part of this community. We also are right in
• 43:05
  Speaker 9: the middle of migration corridors for mule deer, for antelope.
• 43:09
  Speaker 9: We have huge elk populations. There's elk feed grounds all
• 43:13
  Speaker 9: around us. I think preitor management is important, but I
• 43:19
  Speaker 9: think it's also really important that we look at creating
• 43:23
  Speaker 9: legislation that makes it ethical.
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: Right on.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you can you elaborate on that last point
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: a little bit? That was some of the I think
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: some of the frustration that happened on this issue is
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: someone did something that was so egregious, and I'll remind people,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I think this gets a little bit lost. This was
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: hitting a wolf of the snowmobil. This is running down
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: an animal hitting with a snowmobil. Yes, the individual hunts
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: does some hunting, but this is a snowbill strike and
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: taking a wounded animal, taping it up and bringing it
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: to a bar. And I think I sensed early on
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of frustration from outsiders looking at this issue,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: being how could you do that in the criminality of
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: it was illegal possession of wildlife, which would be the
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: same thing is if you went and caught a that
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: you went and caught a baby rabbit and raised it
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: as your own, you would be guilty of the same crime,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: illegal possession of wildlife. So when you talk about legislation,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: what I mean, can you comment on that? Am I
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: going in the wrong direction on this and trying to
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: understand what you're saying?
• 44:58
  Speaker 9: Maggie, No, No, you're good And I think so wolves
• 45:02
  Speaker 9: are you know, considered predators, so they just don't have
• 45:06
  Speaker 9: any sort of protections beyond that. And that's sort of
• 45:14
  Speaker 9: the sticky thing about the situation is that everyone wanted
• 45:19
  Speaker 9: to see Cody prosecuted more than just that small fine,
• 45:25
  Speaker 9: and there is nothing legally set in the state that
• 45:29
  Speaker 9: he technically did that he can be taken to court
• 45:34
  Speaker 9: for or fined for. And that's where the you know,
• 45:39
  Speaker 9: the state legislation itself needs to change.
• 45:43
  Speaker 7: So, Maggie, are you getting at that?
• 45:46
  Speaker 10: Like in Wyoming, wolves are not managed as well in
• 45:52
  Speaker 10: most of the state, they're not managed as a game animal,
• 45:55
  Speaker 10: so it's like open season all your long, no bag
• 45:59
  Speaker 10: limits outside of a small area in northwestern Wyoming.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Small Well not when.
• 46:13
  Speaker 9: I think it's ninety of the state.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, I thought it was more significent. So but
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: but just like a little background for people listening. When
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: when wolves were delisted, different states took different approaches. In
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Wyoming in some respects, the delisting process was delayed by
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: negotiations with Wyoming about how Wyoming what kind of management
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: plan Wyoming wanted to do, and Wyoming like really stuck
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: to its guns and push for a management plan in
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: which they would have a area where wolves would be
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: managed as a game animal, and they would have an
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: area where wolves would be managed as basically the same
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: way that virtually all states managed.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Coyots as vermin as a.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: Non game whatever, the same way for coyotes. You know,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: most states have I think this is true. Most states
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: have no close seasons on coyotes, right, And if there's
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: a coyote molesting your livestock whatever, you don't even need
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: to tell anybody about it if you were to kill
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: a coyote. So Wyoming was emphatic about arriving at in
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: that position, and it differs from the management approach taken
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: in Idaho and the management approach taken in Montana where
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: they established quota systems around the state and regulatory measures
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: around those states. So it's just a difference in the approach.
• 47:39
  Speaker 9: Yeah, and the concept of running down wolves on a
• 47:44
  Speaker 9: snow machine, that's something that's been happening here for a
• 47:50
  Speaker 9: long time. I'm called oh in coyotes for sure. Like
• 47:56
  Speaker 9: I was called a tree hug and hippie growing up.
• 47:59
  Speaker 9: When I tell my classmates I thought that was wrong
• 48:03
  Speaker 9: or a bad thing to do. I was like, if
• 48:04
  Speaker 9: you want to shoot them, why don't you just shoot them? Like,
• 48:07
  Speaker 9: why do you got to run them until they die?
• 48:09
  Speaker 9: I don't think that's right. And because I would say
• 48:12
  Speaker 9: that I was a tree hugget and hippie. But you know,
• 48:16
  Speaker 9: I think you can be a sportsman and believe in
• 48:19
  Speaker 9: like ethical predator management. And that's what I would like
• 48:23
  Speaker 9: to see if there's any light in this situation that
• 48:27
  Speaker 9: it just brings more of that.
• 48:30
  Speaker 6: Yeah, because I think amongst the pro predator management crowd,
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: even the pro predator eradication crowd, you would see a
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: division in getting the job done and playing with the animal, right, right.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Even if you're going to run it over, just run
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: it over.
• 48:52
  Speaker 6: Kill it if you're pro as in a professional, you're
• 48:57
  Speaker 6: doing things quickly and efficiently doing the job.
• 49:02
  Speaker 8: I don't think any hunter who like says that they're
• 49:08
  Speaker 8: a hunter wants to see a prolonged death on it, right.
• 49:13
  Speaker 8: We like pride ourselves on the fact that one shot,
• 49:16
  Speaker 8: one kill or yeah, you know, in general, I'll.
• 49:20
  Speaker 6: Just totally honest, like my hunting mentor uh. He was
• 49:26
  Speaker 6: in a time where coyote pelts were worth a ton
• 49:29
  Speaker 6: of money, and he used to tell me stories over
• 49:33
  Speaker 6: and over again about the the success of his coyote
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: season was based on how many snowsuits he had to
• 49:45
  Speaker 6: replace because instead of shooting a coyote, he'd get up
• 49:50
  Speaker 6: alongside of him on a snowmobile and whack him on
• 49:53
  Speaker 6: the head with the club so he didn't have to
• 49:55
  Speaker 6: stitch up a hole.
• 49:57
  Speaker 8: But that's still just that. But it's a dead coyote,
• 50:00
  Speaker 8: that's dispatching it right away.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, but that that.
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: Dog watch into the leg on his snow snowsuit and
• 50:07
  Speaker 6: they'd whack it on the head.
• 50:08
  Speaker 5: Huh.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of those things that you hear and
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: you don't immediately think about what uh And I almost
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: hesitate to say this but what a level of.
• 50:20
  Speaker 11: Uh.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of coordination athleticism.
• 50:26
  Speaker 6: These are old snowmobiles.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Too, Maggie, I want to real quick calendar you can
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: take over. I want to tell you that one of
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: the interesting things about being alive today is it possible
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: to be a tree hugging hippie and a savage redneck
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: all at the same time. It depends on who I
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: feel that, it depends on who's doing the looking. I
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: think that Einstein got into that with theory of relativity
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: and you say like, well, how fast is it going? Well,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: it depends on where you're looking at it from. So yeah,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: you're a you're a like a you're a bloodthirsty redneck
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: in a tree hugging hippie.
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: Welcome.
• 51:09
  Speaker 9: Yeah. Never been more clearly designed.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 51:12
  Speaker 6: Well, the conversation with a bunch of ranchers over the
• 51:15
  Speaker 6: years who makes some comment about environmentalists and I'm looking
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: at their place and I'm like, well, aren't you a
• 51:23
  Speaker 6: lot of environment I'm like, you seem to be doing
• 51:28
  Speaker 6: a lot of things good for the environment.
• 51:30
  Speaker 9: Here.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite UH stories from this podcast is
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: we had a guy on years ago that that worked
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: on the the nutrient eradication program in Chesapeake Bay, and
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: in order to do the nutrio eradication program, they had
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: to get all private landowners to participate, and they had
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: one big landowner. It was just a holdout, so they
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: couldn't finish killing all the nutrio. And he had a
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: real just kind of anti getting along, yeah, anti. He
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: had an anti government perspective and kind of an anti
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: environmentalist perspective. And eventually they become friends with them, and
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: he goes out to this guy's place and he realizes
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: the guy just loves loves wildlife, and then walking around
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: his place, he's like, look at that, look at that,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: look at that tree, look at this, and he looks
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: at the federal guy. He goes, see what I'm talking about.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: It's a gee damn menagerie. And he realized, like, we're
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: like closer than I thought, you know what I mean? Anyhow,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: anything else, Maggie, you want to add.
• 52:48
  Speaker 9: I mean at the moment, no, I'll stick around and
• 52:52
  Speaker 9: chime in when I see fit. But it's I just, uh,
• 52:58
  Speaker 9: I want both sides of situations like this to just
• 53:03
  Speaker 9: think about the the best way to make change. And uh,
• 53:09
  Speaker 9: you know, I just I feel like my mom talking
• 53:12
  Speaker 9: to myself when I'm in like high school, Like, think
• 53:15
  Speaker 9: about your actions, Maggie Rose, think about how your actions
• 53:19
  Speaker 9: impact other people, you know. And I just wish more
• 53:22
  Speaker 9: people people were told that maybe they needed to be reminded,
• 53:26
  Speaker 9: like don't mess with small businesses that have nothing to
• 53:30
  Speaker 9: do with this situation. Don't give people death threats, Like
• 53:35
  Speaker 9: what do you think that's going to accomplish? So yeah,
• 53:38
  Speaker 9: think about your actions.
• 53:39
  Speaker 8: You're not dealing with the rational people for the most
• 53:44
  Speaker 8: part in that in that scenario.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: So guys, give me the howl perspective on this, because
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: it's a it's you know, it's it's it's a thorny
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: one for everyone.
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: We got involved are about it. We were at Mile
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: High Expo in Denver. I was at dinner. I almost
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: flipped my table over and I'll explain why. I was
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: just pissed off that this happened, like right now, really,
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: this happened in twenty twenty four in the midst of
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: mountain lion bands, outlying bands and all this stuff that's
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: going on. This is going to blow up, This is
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: going to look bad, this is gonna this is really
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: going to boost the the the anti Hunters in their
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: in their campaign because it's.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: He's going to be the poster child.
• 54:32
  Speaker 8: Code became the poster child for their Yeah what they're
• 54:34
  Speaker 8: trying to push.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So we created I guess you can call it
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: an action. It was really a sign on letter to
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: get as many orgs, companies UH to contemn the action. Right.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: We got about seventy, which was great. I think we
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: were the only ones that really even talk about it,
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: like as far as a national org, which I was
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: disappointed in. You know, we should we should come out
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: in opposition to this.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's read.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: Oh man, it's red hot, and and we took some heat.
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: I run the social media, so I was kind of
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: seeing it, you know, from from people that I knew,
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, hey, come on, we're Anni hunters now,
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, because we're condemning this action, Like that's that's
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: the level it went to. Well, you know, where is
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: this gonna go? You're kind of what do you what
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: are you saying we should change legislation or or whatnot? No,
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: you shouldn't be able to torture an animal. This This
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: guy could have ran it, over ran the wolf, over
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: tied it to a tree for five days, came back
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: five days later and then killed it. It would have
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: been fine, no penalty because he didn't transport the animal.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, that would have been legally permissible.
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: In that area. So in the in the vermin area
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: that that Maggie was.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Talking, is it predator managment zone?
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: Is it called yeah, the predator man The other zone,
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: which is which is funny, is called the trophy zone.
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: So let's keep where there are rules. That's called the
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: trophy zone. It's Wyoming's just a you know, it's a
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: different place. So so we got involved. And then one
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: of the things we do is, you know, we're not
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: we're not from Wyoming. We're not an organization that's based
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: in Wyoming. I reached out to organizations in Wyoming, say hey,
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: who's who's taken care of this? Does anybody? Does anybody care?
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: Is anybody willing to you know, get involved? And uh,
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: and it was Jess Johnson with Wyoming Wildlife Federation And
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: she's kind of taken the lead on this. We got
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: her back as far as what she's gonna need, podcasts,
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: support from in state or odd of state, support from
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: industry partners that we have who can, who can kind
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: of lend the support that she's gonna need, and and
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: she's working on what's gonna work is is there anything
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: in legislation? She realizes that's really sticky because this is
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: a this is a situation here where it's not normal,
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean? What happened? So how do
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: you really legislate kind of morality? Really?
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: And how do you draw legislation around uh, totally individual,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: once in a lifetime outlandish set of actions on one
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: person's behalf right, you know?
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: So I don't know if it was. There's some things
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: there's I think it's happened before, maybe not with this guy,
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: but it happens. It has happened before, things like this.
• 57:34
  Speaker 8: Maybe not as egregious as this particular thing, but things
• 57:38
  Speaker 8: happened that shouldn't happen if you're again an ethical hunter.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: But what but what did it? But what did it do?
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: We can we can talk about that. So the action
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: was terrible and what did it do? So he became
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: the guy who did this? I kind of I realized
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: he has a family and all that. I don't like
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: really saying his name. I'm just kind of talking about
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: the incident. But cats aren't trophies. Who is the the
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: anti hunting organization in Colorado that's leading the charge to
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: ban trophy hunting mountain lions, Bobcats. His face is plastered
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: around their website. His face is plastered around their social media.
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: The guy was also he's hunted lions, so they have
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: pictures of him with lions, and they're like, this is
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: why we need to ban this because we.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Need to protect them.
• 58:24
  Speaker 8: Yeah, we need to protect them from from these evil hunters.
• 58:27
  Speaker 8: And this is Yeah, everybody becomes this guy automatically by
• 58:33
  Speaker 8: association because we're all hunters, because we're we all engage
• 58:36
  Speaker 8: in hunting. Now we are this bloodthirsty hate animals. We don't,
• 58:42
  Speaker 8: you know, we willy nilly go out there and shoot crap.
• 58:45
  Speaker 8: And you know, that's that's the picture they want to paint.
• 58:48
  Speaker 8: You know, it's part of what they do. They deal
• 58:50
  Speaker 8: in the eye of public perception all the time.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: It was a nightmare. It's a nightmare for us. It's
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: a nightmare for the people who are in the trenches fighting, because, man,
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: you get a picture of something, you know how it works.
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, you can't talk your way out of that.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe if you have five hours and you
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: really spend it with the person and explain, you know,
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: these things we're talking about, But we don't get that chance,
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: right social media on all the all the anna hunting,
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: you know, websites or whatever. He's the poster boy, and
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: you can see publicly how much money they're raising. It's
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: in the billions. We talked a little bit earlier about
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: the biker rally and that thing that happened. I think
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: that was one hundred and thirty two thousand dollars or something.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: It's just it's it's unfortunate that that happened. It's unfortunate
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: that there are some people who aren't aware of themselves
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: their actions. Obviously somebody in Daniel, Wyoming. The video got
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: out somehow. I don't know how it got out. I
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: don't know who got a hold of it. But those
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: things they don't do us any good. And and you know,
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: both both morally, it was wrong. It was wrong if
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: nobody even knew about it was wrong if you know,
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: if it wasn't on video, but it was on video,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: and now it's a now it's a completely different, you know,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: completely different story. But that kind of stuff is a
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: big struggle. It's a big, big struggle it doesn't help
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: us at all. So so anyway, we don't know what
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: the strategy is going to be, We don't know what
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: the if there is going to be legislation or whatnot.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: Jess is working on that. We trust her to, uh
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: to get that ironed out. And Maggie, are you do
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: you talk to Jess at all about Yeah? You do?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 9: Okay, Oh, sorry, I was not into my mom in
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 9: the background, but yeah, I'm actually going to Jess's house
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 9: this weekend, so I was looking forward to talking to
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 9: her about this.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're having a meeting with her next week.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: Maybe we'll invite you to that on kind of strategy
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: on this whole thing. So well, no, that sounds like
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: you're right, yeah, yeah, cool.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 10: Do you think like addressing it more and bringing it
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 10: back up has the potential to backfire and just like
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 10: keeping it like other than condemning it, right, which, what
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 10: else can you do if you're like, oh, if you
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 10: keep raising it up to the top of the discussion,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 10: is that just helping the other side?
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: It's a good question. I think it depends on how
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: we how we tackle it, what we say, what the
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: results are going to be, and and honestly, if we
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: market it or not. I think it's a good thing.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: All right. I'll give you example. We we condemned this,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: We said a lot about it. I made a few
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: videos on it. People reached out to Howl and said,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: this is the first time I've ever heard hunters talk
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: like this, first time I've heard hunters say this was
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: a action. Yeah, these are anti hunters. I think that's
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: kind of how she was describing herself. There's a there's
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: a few people she was impressed. She said, I feel
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: like I could sit at the same table as you
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: and at least have a conversation. The more people we
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: reach like that, the better. Certainly, kind of like what
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: Steve was saying earlier, you finally have a lot, You
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: have a lot more in common with people when you
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 3: actually sit down and have conversations and learn about their life.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 10: And that's it's interesting because like it's like something that's
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 10: very obviously immoral and egregious, but when someone poaches an elk,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 10: you don't get the same you know what I mean.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: But it's illegal and they get fined.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 10: It's like we don't get the same credit for condemning
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 10: that action.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 7: You know what I mean.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: It's it's just that's because we're all poachers. You didn't
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: know that, right.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 6: Well, the the reality is like hunters do have a
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 6: very long legacy of regulating hunters, right, this would be
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 6: more of the same.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 8: But it's not talked about enough. That's the problem.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: And or is it talked about all the time and
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 6: it's just white noise.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: It's talked about all the time between hunters. It's not great.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 6: I mean, we're not going to we are constantly constantly
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 6: being like, here's somebody who've screwed up. Here's somebody who
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 6: purposely and intentionally did something very wrong. This is how
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 6: you got it, you know.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: And I think you have a positive effect. Mediator has
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: a positive effect on the non hunting public. Now, if
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: you hadn't said those things over the years, I don't
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: know where we would be. Where would we be.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: We'll look at the first, not the first. One of
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: the biggest hunting celebrity influencers was Theodore Roosevelt, who that's it, right,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: Here's a big hunting celebrity influencer named Theodore Roosevelt who
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: wrote about hunting, wrote whole books about hunting, celebrated hunting,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: loved hunting, promoted hunting of people interested in hunting. But
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: what did he do? He would say, how is it
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: that it's legal to go and kill thousands of shore
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: birds to the point where you're eliminating them off of
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: entire nesting grounds? Right? Did people go, you're just playing
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: into the hands of the anti hunters, probably a couple
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: or was he saying, no, you're you're going to drive
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: you know, you're driving these things to extinction. All hunting
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: is not the same. There's a way to go about it.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: There's like a responsible way to go about it that
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: has sustainability in mind and in respect for the restours.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: And there's the way to go about it where you're
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: just going to kind of ruin.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: The whole thing. Yeah, conservations from eradication, you know, couldn't serve.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, so it's not I mean. Leopold, another
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: great hunting influencer, right celebrated hunting, wrote about hunting, got
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: people into it. Also had a lot to say about
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: some things we do that aren't that great, including things
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: that some hunters do that aren't that great.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 8: Sure, sure, ye, Well to that whole point, like my
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 8: whole thing is, or our whole thing is, really is
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 8: do you want policy to be put in place by
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 8: the squeaky wheels of anti hunting, or would you rather
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 8: the decision makers hear from the hunters and have policy
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 8: be put in place guided by us.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the things that's come out of
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: That's one of the things that over the years has
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: come out of trapping regulation is you've seen a lot
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: of self policing over the years. Well, I shouldn't just
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: point that one out. I will quickly on move on
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: another one. The amount of self policing you've seen from
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: trappers over the years about best best practices to avoid
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: conflict with dogs, Right, you've seen a lot of self pleasing.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: Mean they're saying we could wait, not do anything and
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: have a total trap band yep, or we could find
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: a way that like, how do we look at how
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: do we look at potential areas of conflict and write
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: these rules up in the way that lets us continue
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: to do what we do and eliminate conflict because it's
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: one of the other. We either do things where there's
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: zero regulations, no setbacks, no set restrictions, and then we
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: wait until you can't do anything, or we find a
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: way to ease the tension by taking some small steps
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: that we can articulate from an educated perspective about how
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: we could go about our business and not cause trouble.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: You see it in the fishing industry right, self plicing
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: in the fishing industry. And a famous case would be,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: uh with mountain lions. You talk to anyone involved in
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: the history of mountain lion, it's like the first people
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: to come forward on mountainland regulations or mountainland hunters yep.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: And that's how it should be.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: I mean they were smart.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, because you want to keep something around to
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 8: continue to do it. Would you rather go hunting once
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 8: every three.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: Years or never again?
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 8: You know, so you think about it, like you know,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 8: from that perspective, everybody always cares about what's seemingly important
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 8: to them. Sure, so you know think about it that
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 8: that's that's the reality of it. If hundreds of anti
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 8: hunters get what they want, they're going to wave their
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 8: magic wand and get rid of hunting completely. You know,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 8: they're not just going for one thing, They're going for
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 8: it all.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: Eventually.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: If you picture the private conversations I have, the private
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: conversations are, uh, we're going.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: To do away with it all.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: When this happened, I was like, I saw a guy
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: like this.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 10: Yeah, But the funny thing is maybe they just played
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 10: right into our The funny thing about the anti hunting
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 10: angle is they're not using this to get rid of
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 10: wolf hunting in Wyoming because they know that will never happen.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 10: They're using it in places like Colorado.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: They have no foothold in Wyoming.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 7: Like yeah, and.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 10: That's why, I mean, it's this thing that has happened
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 10: is probably not.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 7: Going to change how wolves are managed, and.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: Not in Wyoming, you know, no, definitely not in Wyoming.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Good effect everywhere else.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: And you know, you're talking about the private conversation last year,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: two years ago, it came back. Now it's a different initiative.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: It's not really private anymore. So it was IP three
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: I think in three IP three in Oregon or that one.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: They kind of did away with that. Now it's going
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: to be IP twenty eight. It's a is that the
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: no it's in everything band, it's it's.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 8: Fishing, Yeah, like nails.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how bad it is.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: Well, that's a publicity play though, I mean.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 8: But there's people signing on. Yeah, so there's obviously a
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 8: group of people that believe that it's.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: The pinnacle of what they want. If they could get
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: what they want, that's it.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, they're like, let's just cut to the instead of
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: nitpick and just let's just gump this over with all
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: one of that.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 6: That is a great public service announcement, though, Like you know,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 6: we're heading into elections and a legislative session here in Montana,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 6: so you're starting to see a lot more people hounding
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 6: you on the street for signatures. Yeah, and their job
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 6: is to get the signature. The last lady who stopped
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 6: me three times, I had to say, can I see
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 6: the language of the bill? It's this, I'm like, that's
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 6: how the bill's written. No, And then finally I had
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 6: to say, I am an informed voter, show me the
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 6: language of the bill so I can read it. And
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 6: she said, oh, okay, most people don't want that.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're like, because you're like one in a million.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 6: Who right, So, like what they're boiling down?
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: What was the bill?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: It was on abortion rights? Yeah, yeah, right.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: So it's pro life.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, what's that?
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 6: It's like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can imagine
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 6: how like the petition's going around Colorado or phrased right,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 6: oh sure, right.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: Well we we don't have to imagine we know exactly.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: Uh no one eats mountain lion meat. We're going out
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: there for the head mountains are going to go extinct.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: That's that's the latest one. What else, hunters, you know,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: we're all we're all the guy from Daniel, Wyoming. That's
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: who we are. That's why we're out there doing it,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: and so we can take a picture and put it
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: on social media. That's it. The not eating mountain lion
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: thing has been really eye opening to me. I've never
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: a I live in California, so the whole mountain line thing.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 7: Yeah, you'll never eat one there.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: And even.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: I can't even bring it back if I go out
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: of state or you know wherever.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 7: But really, yeah, you hide back commissioner.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I didn't know. I thought that was just
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: that they thought it was hypocritical on his part. I
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: didn't know that there was a band on bringing them back.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you can have a museum. If I started museum,
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: then I can bring whatever I want back. But yeah,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: I cannot bring a hide back, even a fully taxidermied
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: yea piece you cannot with fully taxidermy from another state
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: that allows it.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: You cannot, Oh, crazy.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: Ship man, I don't know how. I didn't know that,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: but I didn't know that.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: So I wanted to know because I've heard from so
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: many people and I knew this, but I wanted to know,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: you know, kind of publicly on social media, Hey, who
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: eats mountainlin Send me your pictures, send me the send
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: me the recipe, send me the cuisine. Whatever. Flooded with pictures,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: flooded with the best you know, mountain lion, egg roll
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: mount you know, mountain lion whatever. And you know, so
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: we created a bunch of videos. I think CRWM just
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: put up one, actually we did on the entire video
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: where it's showing food and kind of talking about what's
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: going on in Colorado. And then, by the way, everything
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: you just saw that was all my on line. You know.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: So so anyway that cats aren't trophies. They are one
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: hundred percent just relying on lies. That's what they're telling
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: people when they're gathering signatures, you know, where they're getting
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: paid what was it seven to ten bucks a signature? Yeah, crazy,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: it's it's a the process of ballot box biology. That's
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: really the issue, right, I think it's better understood. Robbie
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: itt Blood or just did a great video on this today.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: But it's better understood if you take a different industry.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: Take I don't know, surgeons or whatnot. You know, in
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: the in the medical field, should we go to the
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: public and say this is how doctors should perform surgery.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: Should be override that, you know, by public opinion. And
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: and when we're out there getting those signatures, we can
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: say whatever we want. There's no fact checks, doesn't matter.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: You can when you're you know, collecting signatures, you can,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: like I said, you can say, you know, mountain lions
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 3: aren't eaten, they're going to be extinct. Whatever. You can
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: say whatever you want to get the signatures.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: All hunters are like this guy and Cody.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: Excuse me, this guy Cody, Yeah, yeah, and Daniel and
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 3: Daniel and and now doctors have to follow these procedures
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: for brain surgery. We have wildlife professionals who go to school,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: they have their doctors, they have their PhDs, they have
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: you know whatever, who are managing wildlife and that's their job,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: that's their profession. I don't think people really understand that.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: So when you supersede that with going to the public,
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: making up lies and changing what they're able to do
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: or not able to do. That's the real I mean
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: to me, that's the real danger there. Not that biologists
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: are perfect, not that our state agencies make the most
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: perfect decisions, but I think they are the experts that
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: we have to rely on and that we can you know,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: kind of hold the we can hold them accountable right
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 3: for the actions that they that they decide on or
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: that they you know, advise to the commissions to make decides,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: to make decisions on the real problem here is ballot
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: box biology. That's what That's what we got to inform
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 3: the public on it. You know, like what danger? What
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: danger you bringing to the table? When? When when these
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: things are allowed to come to a vote?
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 8: Right, That's always been the anti hunting establishment's goal is
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 8: to win in the area of public perception in public arena.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not getting what they want. They can't don't
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: they don't get what they want from fishing game agencies,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: they don't get what they want from get commissions, and
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: so they the idea is you take it to the
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: voters and turn something that you know, you'll take a
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: policy issue that isn't going the way you want through
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: establish channels and try to drive it on public opinion,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: which I mean to be fair, happens in other areas.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: It happens in other areas as well. But people have
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: pointed out the chaos that would ensue if every piece
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: of policy was driven by a a metric of public
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: opinion about it in that.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 8: Moment, So, like you know what Charles was saying, we
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 8: have professionals and they follow science, and they have data
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 8: that makes informed decisions, where the anti hunters want us
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 8: to deal with strictly like on emotion, and they deal
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 8: with social sciences, and it's the only science that they
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 8: can manipulate. Like when we first got started, we were
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 8: dealing with a bill in California that was trying to
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 8: get rid of bear hunting.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: They had did a poll.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 8: And it said, oh, you know, I don't remember what
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 8: the numbers were, arbitrary number like eighty five percent of
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 8: the public doesn't want us to bear hunt anymore. And
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 8: the questions they were asking, there's not a single hunter
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 8: that I know that would not agree with the question
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 8: that they were asked. They were asking like, are you
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 8: opposed to lopping off a bear's head?
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: And leaving it out in the woods.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 8: No, okay, I'm not. I mean, I mean, yes, I
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 8: am a post to that. No, I would not like
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 8: to see that. You know, are do you? Are you
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 8: okay with you know, shooting cubs and shooting sALS with cubs. No,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 8: you know, So, like, of course they're going to come
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 8: up with eighty five percent, because even hunters are going
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 8: to say agree with you know, or go along with
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 8: what they just they.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: Just paint a picture that just isn't reality.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 6: But we're living in a society and Steve's pointed this
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 6: out many many times, where the the structure of regulated
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 6: hunting is a surprise to a huge portion of the
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 6: voting population. Right, they're like, oh, oh interesting, there's population
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 6: studies and this is data driven, and then there's a
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 6: portion of that and then this is account Well what
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 6: about roadkill? Is that account Oh it is?
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: Okay? Well yeah, right, it's.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 6: Like like it or not. There's the burden of education
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 6: is always going to be on us, right, It's like
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 6: we're I don't mind taking the high road, but we're
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 6: constantly forced into the high road side of things, and
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 6: that takes a lot more time per person.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 8: Right, yep, Yeah, Yeah, when we were in Utah, we
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 8: were This was really evident to us because we were
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 8: riding in ubers and stuff like to go to dinner
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 8: or whatever. And every time we were inn uber, we
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 8: would engage with the driver and everyone that we talked
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 8: to didn't know that there was seasons, didn't know.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: That we had to go buy tags.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 8: Basically, their idea was that you can go to Walmart,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 8: buy a gun, got in a field, and shoot whatever
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 8: the heck you want, and there's no there was no
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 8: perception of like well or they would perceive a Even
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 8: the ones that knew about tags, that a tag meant
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 8: a dead animal, they didn't know it was, you know,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 8: a nine percent chance of you actually killing something, you know,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 8: with that or harvesting an elkin or with that tag
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 8: or whatever. And there was just all these things that
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 8: we hunters know about and we take for granted seasons,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 8: draws and all these other little things that the general
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 8: public doesn't know. The non public doesn't, you know, non
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 8: hunting public doesn't know. So if they don't know that,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 8: and the only thing that they're being exposed to on
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 8: a constant basis is what the anti hunters are feeding.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 8: Of course, they're gonna have this preconceived notion of who
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 8: the hunter is. They're gonna think you're Elmer Fudd. You know,
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 8: they're gonna think you're a redneck.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: You Elmer Fudd never got anything true.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 3: This is true.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: I've found often all throughout my life talking to urban people,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: to have them be pleasantly surprised, to learn about the
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: regulatory structure, pleasantly surprised. And then you want to go like, oh,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: those cities slicking idiots, But put yourself in their shoes.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: Let's say you're talking to someone you know. You go,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: you're someone from where I grew up and you know,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: rural West Michigan. Meet someone from Manhattan. You must live
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: in a war zone. I bet you can't even go
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: outside without getting raped and mugged, you.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 5: Know what I mean.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: It's like people just aren't aware of other people's worlds.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: So it's not to go and look at someone who
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't hunt, doesn't grow up around hunting, isn't exposed to hunting,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: that they have a totally different idea about it. Well yeah, right,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: and you know what too, The people I hang out
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: with a lot of times are idiots about urban life. Right,
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: of course, because okay, tell me a thing or two
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: about the subway system. You just get robbed, Like, dude,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: there's people have been riding somebodys fifty years and never
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: seen a robbery, you know what I mean. But you
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: don't know, you jump to conclusions and you have wild ideas.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: It's like a human it's a it's a human problem
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: rather than anything else. And then there are people that
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: that in the other direction are educated about it and
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: choose to just manipulate reality, right right, And that's like
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: far less excusable than just being ignorant of a world
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: that you don't have any reason to have ever been educated.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 8: On that world, you know, Yeah, it's it always comes
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 8: out to education. And I think as a group hunters
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 8: we do a pretty good job of getting on our
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 8: soapbox and talking to each other m hm, but we
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 8: don't ever talk to the non hunting public. We're probably
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 8: not going to change anti hunter's minds. But okay, let's
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 8: leave that five percent alone. But that the ninety percent
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 8: in between us, they're they're willing to listen everyone that
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 8: we talked to, and like, you know, that's not even
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 8: last night. We were at a comedy club here and
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 8: there were we were we got you. They're all gonna watch,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 8: They're all gonna listen to mediator. Yeah, we had the
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 8: whole crag outing, but you know they're willing to listen
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 8: if you're giving them. Oh you know, I didn't know
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 8: that about this. So I didn't know that about that.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: And and they.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 8: What we're doing by having those conversations is next time
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 8: some bill comes up or something comes up, now they'll
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 8: be like, oh, you know, I remember so and so,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 8: or I know so and so from work.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: And you know, Steve's a good guy. Steve told me this.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not I'm I don't.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 8: Necessarily believe I'm gonna look into this a little bit
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 8: more before I put my name on it, or I'm
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 8: not going to vote that way because I know this
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 8: is BS or whatever.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's always been an objective of mine. And
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: in imagining that you're having conversations like like through a
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: career and talking about hunting and talking about fishing and
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: natural resources issues, I have this picture that I'm that
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: there's two audiences. One audience is people from completely outside
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: of that world looking in, maybe just voyeuristically. Maybe they're
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: looking in because they're curious, maybe looking in because they're
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: deeply suspicious, but whatever they're looking in on this world.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: And there's also a conversation that you're always having with
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: people that are from the world. I much prefer the
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: conversations with people that are from the world. Sure, like
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: that's just more engaging to me. But I'm aware of
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: this other conversation with people that are looking in, and
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: I imagine some of the time that backfires. But I
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: think a majority of the time, in my experience, which
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: is long now, the majority of time it creates a
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: bit of understanding and some sympathy. Meaning if they go
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: to a Whole Foods and they're presented with the thing
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: that would be stop hunting. Yeah, those who spend time
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: looking in are gonna more be like what cal said, Well,
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: let me see, because I like, I hang out with
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: some of those guys. I know some of those guys.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: I've eaten your meat over some of those guys houses,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: the guys I know that are into that world. No
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: a shitload about wildlife and really love wildlife. Let me
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: take a look. Rather than yeah, I'll sign it hunting,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: screw that, do you know what I mean? I think
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: you generally like a majority of interactions create a sympathy,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: understanding empathy of course, or a desire to engage.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: You know, that's part of what we're working.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: So imagine I live in San Francisco. Well now I'm
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 3: a few miles outside, but I was there for a while.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: Imagine you go to San Francisco. Imagine go to Portland, Mangico,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: the Denver, wherever. Here. You drive down the highway and
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: you see billboards that are framed for the general non
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: hunting public about what hunting is, not to become a hunter,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 3: but to understand what hunting is right to tackle. I
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: don't know things that they don't know, conservation, ecological, economical,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: the the historical, the cultural aspects, whatever it is. Play
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 3: on their emotions about people who do hunt and their stories.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 3: And wow, women hunt, did you know that?
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: Women hunt? Black people hunt? Did you know that?
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 9: You know?
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 3: Like, let's change the narrative a little bit. When you
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: turn on the TV, you see the I don't know
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: if it's on anymore, but Sarah mclachy, you know you
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: got the Humane Society commercials right.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: Saramhl glaughlan through with those guys. What was her big.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: Hit in the arms of an angel.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: You know, she had a lot, so she had a big, big.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 4: Hit, probably in the art.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 3: I think there's a few. Big dude.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Phil for a minute, pulled his mic up to his lips,
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: thought better of it and moved it away. What was it, Phil,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not it's in the arms of it.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 10: That's that's the big one, and that's the one they
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 10: played on those.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: You can say, ca on Phil, Phil, can you aim
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: the camera at me? It's on you?
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: Okay?
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: Filled in one of these.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 8: And you read my mind exactly.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: Yes. So imagine if you're on the TVC commercials about
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: this messaging that would be framed for the general public
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: to understand it. Why do we not have this? This
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: is a billion dollar industry. We spend a lot of
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: money on habitat, a lot of money on and a
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: lot of things. A lot of money's coming through Pittman Robertson.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: What is it now, twenty billion?
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: It's a lot.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: It's a lot since it's since nineteen thirty seven, Oh.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all through Yeah, close to a billion bucks a
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: couple of years ago.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 8: Bro On, one point three years ago, just in one year, yeah,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 8: in twenty twenty.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I did the COVID personal Firearm Bump.
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people, I would like to point out that it's
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: told it's so fair and so true that you can't
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: talk about Pittman, Roberts and Fun without pointing out this
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: reality that money. I mean, let's be honest, that money's
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: gun owners.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, a lot like like a lot.
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: You can break those gun owners out, but that money.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: Is well gun owners or hunters though, sure, But I'm
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: not consistent.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just at a time. I think at a
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: time when you did that excise, when you for that
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: excise tax in nineteen thirty seven, it was viewed as like, well,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: who's gonna be paying this? Yeah, hunters. It has just
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: come to be that as cultural things have changed and
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: time's going on, that was that was had they at
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: the time. Let me put it this way, if at
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: the time of the enactment of that act, if they
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: had said you need to check a box about what
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: you're gonna do with that firearm and if if you
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: put down hunting, then it goes to the Pittman robertson fun.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: If they had done that, that fund would be a
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: would be much much, much much smaller today than it is,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: just out of fairness, way different.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So when you're talking about like promoting, what I'm saying, Yeah,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: this arbitrary numbers to say seventy million dollars a year
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: that we as an industry spend on a media campaign
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: throughout the United States a Super Bowl commercial, and I'm
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: just saying seventy million. Yeah, but we changed three percent,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 3: five percent, six percent. This is a generation. We're basically
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: doing what the anti hunters have done over decades. They
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 3: have slowly changed the mind. They've they've a sea change
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 3: rather and I grew up in Michigan too. There was
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: a time in my life where I thought I didn't
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: know people didn't hunt right. Times have changed.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Pat Durkin, speaking of Wisconsin, once said, if you're
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: not a deer hunter, you share bed with one, right, right,
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: or maybe a house with one. But you get talk
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, so that's what it's fun Yeah, it's
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: funny to bring up the billboard thing, because anti hunters
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: use the bill board campaigns all the time, very effectively
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: and very in a very manipulative, manipulative way. And caw
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: was pointing out one around here where there's a they're
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: they're equating that dlisting of grizzlies would mean hunting. And
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: so there's a picture of a saw with cubs and
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: there's a crosshair on the sows on the sow, he'd
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: be like, I can assure you a couple one thing.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: The last time they moved to d list Montana wasn't
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: issuing any grizzy tags. Right, I can damn sure tell
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: you that since you can't shoot a sow black bear
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: with cubs, there is no way in the world that
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: they're going to open up and extend any harvest that
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: would happen in the future to sows accompanied by cubs.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: Sure, well, those are the lies.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: There's there's one right now. There's an organization that has
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: always put pushed for a public land trapping band. The
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: wolverines were recently listed. And this is a whole deep conversation,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: but wolverine's were recently listed as threatened under the ESA.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: There's now a billboard in town from Gallaton Valley Wildlife Association.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's like a mostly anti hunting group. They
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: have a billboard that says, and these are people that
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: always wanted to see a trapping band. It now says
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: stop trapping on public land save the endangered wolverine.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 7: Well, that's part of the problems.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: It is threatened. You can't trap them anyway.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 10: That's part of the problem with like promoting the positives
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 10: when you're always forced to be in a reactionary position,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 10: and like fighting these kind of things, like the dude
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 10: in Wyoming is screwed up, Like you're constantly in a
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 10: position of defending yourself rather than promoting yourself.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: And if you do promote it, do you do their
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: playbook and just put up totally outrageous lies.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: I don't think we need to be.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: Like hunters are one hundred times more likely than anyone
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: else to be great people.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 7: Have you ever been in an accident hitting a deer,
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 7: Well shoot them all before they kill you.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 9: No.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 8: But the biggest problem is that we live in a
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 8: world right now that we are dealing with these just
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 8: memes and little quick right hits, and and the anti
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 8: hunters have such a easy job of swaying public perception,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 8: like it's very easy to post a picture of a
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 8: guy with a holding a deer with a bloody background
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 8: and whatever, and very negative thoughts are going to come
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 8: to your head, Like you know, if yours don't know
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 8: what hunting is if you're not exposed to hunting. So
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 8: we have this like super hard job of like how
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 8: do we tell people about conservation, about the money, about
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 8: the caring of the wildlife, about the human intrinsic values
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 8: and the things that the meals and all, like all
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 8: these good things that come about with hunting. You know,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 8: it's probably it's changed, I know, probably everybody's life in
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 8: this room, right. How do we have those conversations when
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 8: you only have three seconds to do it? You know,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 8: if we had the chance to have like a podcast
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 8: or three hour discussion and nuanced discussion with everybody that
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 8: you encounter, it'd be a lot easier job.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: But we don't. So we have to start coming up
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: with ways.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 8: And I think it's on us to have to start
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 8: talking to we all, you know, we all know people
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 8: that don't hunt.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: We all interact with people.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 8: At work and you know, at the store or whatever
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 8: that don't hunt. So let's start giving them positive interactions
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 8: with us. Let's start communicating these things with us. Because
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 8: there's what I don't know. The numbers keep changing. Somewhere
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 8: between fourteen to sixteen million people that hunt in the
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 8: United States if one of if we change the mind
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 8: of one or talk to one person every year, you know,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 8: in ten years we might be a lot closer to,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 8: you know, having a better understanding with the general public
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 8: or the non hunting public. I should say, of what
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 8: hunting is.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: I don't personally want to see more hunters. I want
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 3: that I'd like to see less hunters. I want to
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 3: see more people accept what hunting is, and not just that,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 3: but also understand that hunting is an effective management tool
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 3: that is used by these agencies that people don't even
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: know exists in the first place. They don't even know
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 3: these agencies exist. So there's a lot of education that
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 3: happen there. But what John was saying, you know, we
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: all talked to one person, and we all talked to
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: two people or whatever. How do you use I mean,
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: I see that as having a positive effect on the
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: perception of what hunting is to the general not ending public.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 3: Do you do you feel the same way? I mean,
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 3: your show's on Netflix. That has to You're not just
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 3: it's not just hunters watching your show.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. I find it interesting that the oldest representational
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: art on Earth is people cataloging.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the hunts first ever, Yeah.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't know what's in their mind. I've always
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: written about what I'm interested in and written about my world,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: and as a writer or a creator of some sort,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about a certain set of ideas,
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: and as time changes and technology changes, I'm going to
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: continue to talk about a set of ideas that I'm
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: interested in and I feel compelled to discuss in whatever
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: way is available for me to talk about them. I
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: think that had Uh to go back to and in
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: no way would ever equate myself to him. But if
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: you go back to someone like Roosevelt or you know,
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: I mentioned Leopold earlier, I think that they would have
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: taken the ideas that they dealt in and they would
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: have talked about them on podcasts. I think they would
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: have talked about them on social media. They would have
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: not have limited it to books, they would have not
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: limited it to articles. They were vocal about their enthusiasms
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: and vocal about their love, and they had a big impact,
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: and they would have talked about in any way possible
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: the argument about there's this kind of pervasive argument about
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: I had someone to actually frame it to me one
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: day about like somehow conservation that get you know, introducing
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: people to the idea of hunting, getting people interested in
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: hunting was bad for conservation. Let's take a look at
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: that for a second. New Mexico is going to issue
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: a certain amount of elk tags. It's capped. Okay, if
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: you're talking about conservation, a bunch of people wanting to
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: apply for elk tags and wanting to go hunting doesn't
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: change the number of people that are out hunting. Right
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: They're confusing, oftentimes conservation with convenience, meaning they're mad that
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: it's not as convenient to get a tag. Don't tangle
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: this up with conservation. The elk carvest is fixed. Let's
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: talk about conservation for a minute as well. You go
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: to Wisconsin, you go to Michigan, wildlife managers are writing
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: public letters because they cannot get people to harvest enough deer.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: They're seeing habitat degradation, an unprecedented disease transmission in certain
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: areas because they cannot get the dough harvest up. The
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: people that are hunting now aren't killing. Does not enough
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: conservation in that area. If you want to talk about conservation,
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: conservation in that area would be encouraging a type of
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: hunter motivated by venison to go out and get does
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: that's conservation. Conservation in that case is not saying sh
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: don't tell anybody about hunting. Another thing is I find
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: it's like, here's something that's incredibly common. You'll have people
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: like me that come from a place like I come
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: from Michigan. I moved out to Montana out of an
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: interest in hunting and fishing. When I came to Montana,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: I moved in on other people's hunting spots. You just did.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: The only person that has any justification to start bitching
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: about losing their spot to incoming people would be Native Americans.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: And if you're really, really, really deeply concerned about people
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: that had their hunting spots overrun, you should be involved
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: in the land back movement in helping Native Americans. If not, Buddy,
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: you took someone's spot right when you moved out west.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: You took someone's spot when you started applying for sheep
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: tags and goat tags and moose tags and drawing those tags.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: You cut in line from someone that was applying before
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: you were applying. You just did. But people's memories are
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: so short. Whatever they were motivated by to move out
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: west and start hunting. They think that that because it
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: was them that was so pure, everybody else since them
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: is just an asshole. It's like, come on, man, right,
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like, come on, and
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: there's this other there's this other funny thing too about
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: this like industry thing. Like let's say you work. Let's
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: say you work in an I was pulling it out
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: of thin air. Let's say you worked at the ars
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: where you draw your money from federal taxpayer dollars that
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: are part of agricultural subsidies. Okay, you know that money's
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: coming because it's pork barrel protected. You know that money's coming.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: You never have to market anything, and it why is
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: it being that? It's like so weird to see an
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: industry where people have to are in the are in
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: the open market economy, creating jobs, generating tax revenue. Right,
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: It's just it's like upsetting because you live outside of
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: a world where there's any accountability. You know, what butters
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: your bread? Right, and if it went to a public vote,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: that bread wouldn't get buttered. It just wouldn't. So this
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: whole conversation, I would read it. Cal was born in Montana.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: I'm opening to hear col bitch about stuff from Montana.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: I'll indulge it all day long. But this whole like,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: this whole thing is like a ton of guys like me.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: They moved out here and started finding hunting spots. And
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: let me tell you, man, there was people hunting those spots. Dude,
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: they were you and now you're in that spot. So
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: like this conservation question, give me a break, dude. It's convenience.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: It's convenience. It's like you took someone's spot. Someone's in
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: your spot now. And you know, what's a couple of things.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: If the person in your spot is a veteran, screw you.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: If the person in your spot's a person with their kids,
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: screw you.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 5: What what? What?
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 3: What makes it your spott?
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Like go ask the Blackfeet about it and see
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: what they think about who's in their spot. Give me
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: a break, man. It's just it's just goes on and
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: on and it's like just.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 8: Sh I think it's I think it's a jealousy thing really,
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 8: because you you see somebody having success, or you see
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 8: somebody doing something that you want to do, so automatically
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 8: somehow they're they're cheating to get that, or they're doing
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 8: something wrong to get that. So if that's oh, you know,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 8: stealing spots or poaching or getting whatever whatever.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 7: I mean, having different factions fighting with each other is
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 7: never going to help hunting man. It's never.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: Never.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 10: I'm sure there's still like getting back to the wolf
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 10: thing or the bear thing, like.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 7: There's hunters out there that tons don't like that ship.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: Yep, you know, there's a really.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 8: There's a really interesting statistic that goes along with that.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 8: Every time there is an argument where hunters are on
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 8: both sides of the fence of an issue, whatever that is,
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 8: it almost always it's like in the ninety percentile aligns
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 8: what it what it. When the smoke clears, it ends
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 8: up aligning with anti hunting movement. So think about that
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 8: if you're fighting your fellow hunter about something like Okay,
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 8: this is a simple one trail camban in Arizona.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, I don't think you can say that that's anti
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: hunting thing.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 8: But there was ani hunters on the side of that,
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 8: So that's what helped tip the scales.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't think that's what.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 8: I'm not saying that anti hunters are driving that. I'm
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 8: saying that if you're this way and this guy's this way.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: They're going to be on a side.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 8: They're going to go with the side that goes against
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 8: that is true, and it's almost always it never works
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 8: out for hunting. Now, could there can there you know,
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 8: could we have found a better solution than just hey,
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 8: let's get rid of I mean, this is just an
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 8: arbitrary example. But could we have found a better solution.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 8: Could hunters have gotten together and said, Okay, well I
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 8: agree with you, I don't you know, I don't like
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 8: this happening, or I don't want guys coming in and
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 8: checking their trail cameras while I'm sitting on a water hole.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: Because that's what started it.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 6: Diverse coalition, right or what wind fights?
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 7: Right?
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 6: So like when you're like, well the anti hunters jumped
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 6: in on this, they're able to skew things at the
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 6: end because they're like, okay, we've heard from this group,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 6: oh and then here's this other group, and so yeah,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 6: I can see how that would push a thing. But
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 6: that comes down to why everybody who does anything that
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 6: you like to do, you need to figure out educate
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 6: yourself on how to be a better advocate for those
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 6: things and be willing to be involved, right. I mean,
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 6: we're just at a point in time where if you're
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 6: not going to weigh in on the decision making processes,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 6: these burdens some regulatory processes where thank god we live
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 6: in a place where public comment periods are built into
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 6: the process, somebody else is going to go in there
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 6: and do it for you, right. And you know, we
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 6: really do have a broad, diverse coalition amongst hunters. But
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 6: you have to say, hey, you know I'm in the
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 6: you know, Plumber's Labor Union. This is where I live,
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 6: this is my family, this is how much money I spend,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 6: and we do it hunting right, And people need to
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 6: go through and we need to make sure that we're
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 6: checking all those boxes when we're saying, hey, this access issue.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 6: And I think access to wildlife is a very smart
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 6: way of framing this Colorado issue.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 6: It's like, there is no reasonable science that says we
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 6: shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of this opportunity. Should
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 6: you want to take advantage of the opportunity to just
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 6: pursue lions. But somebody's like, oh, well, there's not a
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 6: lot of them, not a lot of hunters doing that,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 6: So let's just shut off that little bit of access
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 6: to that opportunity, right, and so well you need Unfortunately,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 6: like the way a lot of politicians work is like,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 6: well we've already heard from the hunters, right, but if
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 6: you can go in and say listen, yeah, I do
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 6: some hunting, but really I'm a fly fisherman. This is
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 6: why this issue that doesn't seem to be connected matters
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 6: to me. Or you know, dirt bikes ATVs. All the
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 6: outdoor pursuits. Right, It's like, well, you know, the cat
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 6: hunting thing matters to me because there's no reason to
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 6: stop this group of people from doing what they're doing.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 6: You're just listening to some other group that says it shouldn't.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: Exist and it doesn't stop there.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 8: Yeah, people cycles, I'll getting rid of that too.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 8: Are we just looking at the issue for the issue
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 8: and not looking at the.
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: You know, the side effects that happened to it.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 6: Right, And like Steve says, people's memories are very short, right, it's.
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: Like, oh, yeah, you know there's the thing I want
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: to push back on a little bit. And we discussed
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: this in the past, is uh, there are gonna become
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: times on regulatory issues where the general will of hunters
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: is going to align with anti hunters? Oh sure, I
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: mean you take a look at this. This is the
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: thing I always like to bring up because it was
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: so clean, and it was so clean. An instant was
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: when the idea of using drones for hunting came in. Okay, right,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: when drones were hitting and becoming this thing just widely available, inexpensive.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: I think one year you had thirteen states come out,
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: thirteen Western states come out with drone bands, including Alaska. Right,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: had you gone to the anti hunting world and said,
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: should you be able to use a drone for hunting?
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: What do you think they're gonna say no? Okay, well
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: sort of, they'll you know, Alaska's Game commission. Sure, So
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: I don't think like in some of these cases a
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: little more complicated than to say like and then they
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: side with the ani hunters because it's just right. It's
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: it's like you're gonna wind up. I don't even want
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: to use the term strange bedfellows, but you're coming out
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: of question from opposite directions, but you're landing on that
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: question the exact same way. You know, like you can't Yeah,
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's impossible. I don't want to call it
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: an unfortunate accident, but just sometimes they're your sentiment, A
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: hunter's sentiment is going to align that way.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 8: Well, it's the same saying goes with the you know, the
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 8: wyoming wolf thing, but it's do you want them driving
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 8: the policy or do you want the policy to come
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 8: from us?
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: Well, in this case, in the drone case, the policy
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: very much came from hunters, right. You know, as we
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: just heard from some people involved in the commission in
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: Arizona on the governor tag issue, like that policy change
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: is coming from people who have untarnished reputations as pro hunters. Right.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: It's just some things would be that if your knee
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: jerk anti anything having to do with hunting, you're going
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: to align oftentimes with hunting restrictions. If a state game
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: agency says, do we want to allow nighttime hunting of
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: elk with thermals? Right, hunters are going to say what, no?
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: And what are anti hunters is going to say? No?
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 3: Of course not?
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we we just what something was it last
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 2: year with the horses? We actually so.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say, yeah, so we have aligned, you know,
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 3: and I with the Center for Biological Diversity, a couple
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 3: of times, and it's on it's on wild horses.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 6: I mean, this is not uncommon, right, I mean, yeah,
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 6: go ahead, well, yeah.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 3: It's it's uncommon in our space. But we basically got
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 3: pictures and documentation from Robin Silver, who I think is
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 3: the co founder of CBD. I believe Apache Sickreise National Forest,
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 3: I think is what it was. They're calling them faral
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 3: horses because yeah, the evidence points to there was a wildfire,
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 3: it burnt down fences of native tribes, their horses got out.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 3: Now they're living here, so they're not wild horses.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: I agree with that. Yeah, dude, I feel like we
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: need you got to provide a little background for people.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 6: Well, there was a wild horse untarnished by the hands
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 6: of man and manipulation.
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: You're doing the background right now?
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 9: Yeah?
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: Oh thank you? Yeah?
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 7: How far back you going place to see you? Okay?
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, walk us through a quick chronology because these are confusing.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 6: So that horse died off several theories as to how,
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 6: but they very well could have been hunted and killed
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 6: by early humans on this continent. By leap forward in time,
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 6: the Spanish arrive with horses at a couple of different
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 6: geographic locations.
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: But those.
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 6: Indigenous people to North America, southern North America start stealing
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 6: those mainly for food, and uh, you know, the horses
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 6: run away. Even in modern times, horses run away. So
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 6: this allowed for like another food option out there on
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 6: the on the prairie because they're out there making more horses.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 6: But I mean that's that's where like, that's how a
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 6: feral population begins. Now we're just like a long road
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 6: down the way.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 10: So I think what you're getting at is, at this point,
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 10: all wild horses are faral horses.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: There's but there's actually if you went to but there
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: was a bifurcation at a point where they looked at
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: these sort of ancestral Spanish horses they dubbed we Americans whatever,
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: dubbed those wild horses. But if cow's horse ran away,
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: that's a feral horse. Those have different governing rules. But
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: the world has gotten murky in that among those ancestral
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: wild horses. You gotta all kind of runaway feral horses, right,
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: And so they do it by not what is the
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: animal's history? Where is the animal standing?
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 8: Yeah, geography was that nineteen seventy something, they like made
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 8: boundaries and any horses that were in this I think
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 8: it's in the seventies something like that. Any horses in
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 8: this area is a wild horse. Anything outside of that
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 8: is a federal federal horse.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 6: Where's a wild horse island here in Montana where they're.
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 7: Crazy.
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: But yeah, if you could take you could take your
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: You could take a horse you've owned for twenty years,
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: put it on the right patch of ground, and that
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: horse becomes a wild horse.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: Sure they go farrow very quickly, or they go wild.
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, I'm sorry.
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 8: Legally, yes, you're right.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 6: You just got to get rid of any any markings.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 6: Make sure the brand inspector isn't isn't around you.
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: I'm taking something. That's why we need to have the
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: right guest. I'm taking something that's so complicated and trying
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: to compress it. And I'm not a subject matter expert.
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: But anyhow, go ahead. You found yourself on the same side.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 3: Well, they were, Yeah, they were legally classified as as
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 3: as a feral horses, not not wild. Otherwise I don't
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 3: think anything could have been done. But uh, for that issue,
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 3: we were the squeakiest wheel. Which whenever this had come
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 3: up before.
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 10: The what was the issue, like get rid of them.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 3: To remove them from. Yeah, like the landscape there was
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: just getting decimated. It was just dirt left, no no water.
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 8: With the water situation was the worst thing. They would
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 8: like physically see tanks that elk would normally drink at horse,
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 8: you know, whole brute horses come in.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 3: And and there was endanger.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 2: She's oh, yeah, there was an dangerous feture. That's what.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 3: Else Where the CBD comes in a lot, they're all
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 3: about habitat or something.
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 6: I believe my girlfriends a horse, grew up as a
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 6: horse person. She gets really annoyed with me when we're
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 6: driving through parts of Montana and I point to shitty
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 6: pastures and I'm like, oh, that's a horse property, right.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 3: It's the truth.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: So in this case, in the desert southwest areas of Nevada, California, Arizona,
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: New Mexico, you have a impost wild animal out competing
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: true native wildlife for grass and water. And that's the
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: that's the that's the like.
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 3: The crux of the issue. And I talked to him
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 3: two days ago, and this might be the guy I
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 3: refer to you if you want to talk to him,
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 3: but he said they've removed five hundred horses now and
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 3: they are going to there's farms, there's I don't know
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 3: what they're called.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: Some of them.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 8: Yeah, some of them are get relocated. But I think
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 8: some of them are getting.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 3: People buy them people.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: No, they can't.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 8: I thought there were some that they had they were
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 8: they approved the lethal takes.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: Oh maybe they were not true wild horses.
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 6: Then they were diseased or cripp the.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 3: Feral because of the whenever that wildfire happened. They were
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 3: classified as these are feral. These escaped out of the
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 3: out of the indigenous, you know, out of the reservation.
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: So they were.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 3: That's what it was. Yeah, So there's an example of alignment.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: Like the Center for Biological Diversity wanted them removed wildlife
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: like more hook and Bullet wildlife activists wanted them removed.
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 3: Back to the CBD. We are fighting them now on
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 3: this uh Catalina Island. And you know about the mule
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 3: deer extermination.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've covered that exhaustively man.
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 3: So uh but they backed up on it. No, No,
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 3: no aerial gunning. That's not going to happen, at least
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 3: not this year. Two days ago, three days ago, the
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 3: Commission approved p l M tags on Catalin Island to
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 3: increase hunting opportunity on the island. That's what we asked for.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 3: There's but the Humane Society is on our side. There's others.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 3: It's funny. So yeah, so I was just on Catialen
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 3: Island and.
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: You guys been on the phone together.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's funny.
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: We did.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 3: We did some podcasts together. I'm like, well, this is
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 3: this is interesting. I'm here with the Humane Society and
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 3: and this lady said, hey, I'm all for hunting, I'm
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 3: all for management.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: We were very surprised about that.
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just not eradication. I'm like, I'm right there with you.
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: So that's a not US standpoint.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 9: No.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 7: Never, she still worked for them right.
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: To get you know, on the billboard.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 3: So there is a difference. So hs US is is
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 3: kind of like the the national brand, right.
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: And that's the animal rights Oh yeah that this causes
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: huge confusion.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: So hs US and your local Humane Society are not
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: the same thing.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 3: Very different, very different.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: So this was a local maybe a low this is
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: this is local.
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 3: However, the the Humane I believe hs US has come
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 3: out in opposition of this because they're just against yeah anything.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: Right, they don't Yeah, they don't entangle themselves into things
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: from a habitat perspective. They and they are focused on
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: like individual they're focused on welfare of individual animals.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: I've recently looked at some interesting documentation out of California
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: with hs US where hs US had petitioned the state
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: to end California's bear harvest or sorry to to petition
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: the state to end California's bear hunt over concerns that
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: that populations were plummeting, Which were which was the opposite
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: of truth? And then later one of them clarified someone
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: I think it was on a podcast. Someone sent me
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: a transcript. Someone pressed them, if you're arguing to close
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: the bar season based on a population number that you
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 1: understand to be true, what is the population number where
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: you would not oppose the bear harvest? And she acknowledged
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: there is no number.
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 3: So that was that was actually we actually have our
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 3: video that was actually in a commission meeting. That was
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 3: Commissioner Murray pressed Wendy keif Over, she's the Humane Society
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 3: HSUS representative. She asked her that in a commission meeting,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 3: what's the number you're happy with? You know, because they
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 3: they didn't know at the time when they when they
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 3: had this petition and we had we had this big meeting.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 3: We had one hundred and thirty hunters there. I believe
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 3: the Commission was incredible. Gave us the opportunity to talk about,
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 3: you know, what we do with with bear fat, with
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 3: bear meat, like like, really, the California Commissions is giving
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 3: us this incredible opportunity to share our stories, and Humane
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 3: Society was just going nuts like disrupting the meetings. You
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 3: guys can't do this, don't let them talk about that.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 3: And they're like, wait, it's your petition. You made these claims.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 3: You made these claims that people don't eat bear, that
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 3: you know they do this and that, and there's only
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 3: thirteen thousand bear in California. Well, we just proved you wrong.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 3: And one of our scientists at that time nobody knew
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 3: this was coming, stood up, gave a presentation and said, hey,
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 3: we're working on a bear management plan, which is now
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 3: to present they have one. Yeah, the comment period justid
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 3: he goes, I think we're looking at sixty seventy thousand
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 3: bear and it just made was like, what you know,
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 3: did anybody know about this? Because we look like.
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: They were pushing twelve five. Yeah, and then the new
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: thing is like the most, like the sort of best.
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: It's a range of fifty something to eighty something. So
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: people are probably the probably sixty five thousand bears.
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 6: But no hunter stood up and said, now you imagine
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 6: sixty seventy thousand hungry bears on the edge of your
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 6: child's playground, right, Okay.
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the other thing you got to resist they made.
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they find a lot of hunters tiptoeing into this
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: dangerous territory of telling everybody how dangerous wildlife, right, and
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: that they're doing you a great service because wildlife is
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 1: so dangerous. And that's another real that's a yeah, that's
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: that is a dangerous place to get.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 8: We never want to vilify the lion or the bear whatever.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 8: They're just going to do what they do the wolf.
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: But it's no, we're full support.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 3: We love wolves on the landscape, grizzly bear. They deserve
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 3: to be there, but they do need to be managed,
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 3: and I don't know, don't we don't really believe in
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 3: reintroduction or introduction, so sticky, it's.
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 1: Well, cats out of the bag. Yeah, sorry, you're not
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: going to put it back, I should have no. No,
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying this, like we had a conversation a
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: long time ago about with the We had a conversation
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: on the show with the woman that ran the that
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: that ran the wolf program during the wolf reintroduction in
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: the mid nineties in Yellowstone. She looking back, looking back,
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: felt that it was unnecessary even now says it was
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: unnecessary at the time because we would have landed in
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: the same place coming down. We would have landed in
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: the same position with natural movement of animals coming in,
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: and they were seeing it coming in. While the Colorado
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 1: reintroduction bill was progressing, wolves were showing up from Wyoming.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 9: Right.
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: So, whether or not in twenty years, thirty years, however
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: the hell it is, I think you're gonna be stuck
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: with the same set of converce You're gonna be stuck
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: whether or not those things that happened, you probably stuck
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: around the same set of conversations around you are gonna
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: I think this is the reality. You are gonna have
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: large predators on the landscape. You're gonna have large predators
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: on more of the landscape, and there's gonna become a
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: question of do we do management practices to uh do
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 1: we tape steps for management practices to reduce conflict and
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: to stay with deer and elk herds that we want
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: to see, that we hunters want to see, and that's
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: gonna be Like it's gonna be somewhere between those two things.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: They're not gonna be gone, right, They're not gonna be gone.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: We're not gonna go back.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 8: In time and not re eradicate them or whatever.
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: It's not gonna happen. It can't happen. There's all kinds
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: of I mean, we have this whole legal framework that
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: they can't allow that to happen.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 6: But this big pop you know what the prey population
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 6: objectives are going to be. I think you're correct, is
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 6: like going to be a big conversation because like here
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 6: in the state of Montana, right we're like, we love elk,
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 6: we want more elk. A lot of folks in Montana
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 6: are like, we don't want more elk.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 7: Well, in Colorado, where there there's a new.
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 10: Wolf population getting itself established, at some point they're going
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 10: to have to decide how many will elk are we
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 10: willing to like give to and how many elk are
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 10: we saving for hunters?
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: I think it's the only practical conversation and the same
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: way we debate between different stakeholders, you know, the same
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 1: way agricultural interests might argue with hunter interests about how
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: many elk is the right number elk? How many deer
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: is the right number a deer we're gonna have. We're
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: gonna have conversations about how many line is the right
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: number of lions, how many wolves is the right number
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: of wolves, how many grizzly bears is the right number
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: of grizzly bears, how many black bears is the right
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: number of black bears. I don't think that the conversation
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: is never going to return to should we poison them all?
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: Its just right, I mean, be realistic.
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 10: But the problem is, like these guys are saying there
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 10: is no number that's big enough for some people.
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, you know, and there's no number of elk it's
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 1: big enough for some people. Right, I don't know many guys.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know many elk hunors the convenience about having
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know those guys.
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 8: There's a big difference between reintroducing and them coming in
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 8: their own you know, natural attrition.
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, social friction is a big issue, and I think
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: that's part of the To be fair to the woman
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: that said we that she sort of questions the move,
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: she said, the social conversation that we would have eventually
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: got there, the social conversation would have been so different.
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but even ecologically it's a big difference.
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: It's been huge different psychologically.
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 8: So like you drop one hundred wolves into an area
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 8: and all the prey they've never seen a wolf before
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 8: in their life. They don't know how to react towards
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 8: the wolf. It's just like when you go out in
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 8: the woods, deep deep bak back and you run into
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 8: an elkan that's staring at you because he's never seen
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 8: a human before.
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: In your backyard. Or on the other he's never seen
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: them or they've never heard them. Right, And they.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 3: Picked the problem wolves. Yeah that's in this case out
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 3: of Oregon. Yeah, like they picked the wolves they wanted
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 3: to get rid of.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 8: And from what I'm on them, that's like generally what happens. Okay,
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 8: Like a state's like, okay, well we need we need
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 8: to get rid of these problem.
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 2: Childs, and yeah, let's ship them off to this state.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 8: So you know, you introduce a wolf that's never been
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 8: on a landscape or hasn't been on the landscape for
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 8: one hundred years or whatever. Those animals know how to
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 8: how to deal with it. Also, those wolves don't know, Hey,
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 8: where are my boundaries?
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: What do I need to stay in?
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 8: Like they're just going to keep going wherever they want
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 8: to go, and like it just causes more.
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 6: Dan Gates and I were just talking last week about Colorado,
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 6: specifically on the on the wolves. We changed topics for
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 6: a minute, and uh, we're just talking about how it
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 6: is kind of funny where like that celebratory zeal of
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 6: reintroduction has gone away. Yah, don't hear much of that anymore,
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 6: but you are hearing from some of those same sources
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 6: that were so happy about wolves being reintroduced to the
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 6: state of like, oh boy, you know, this is kind
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 6: of hard. This is kind of just because now there's
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 6: as these wolves are getting into the predicted types of friction.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of buyer's remorse.
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 6: There's a yeah, there's like, well, I didn't know it
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 6: would be that, or I didn't know those wolves would
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 6: be here. I thought, you know, So it's not like
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 6: this one hundred percent dedication.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: It's not.
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah, not so much, and It is just interesting because
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 6: third time, now, like our memories.
• 2:04:10
  Speaker 7: Are short, it just proved lethal management for him.
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh they did.
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 10: Yeah, and there's an official pack now because some of
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 10: them had a couple.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I just saw an article came out. Yeah.
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 3: That goes back to I think if the vote what
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 3: was that Prop one one for in Colorado? If the
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 3: vote was held today, I don't think it would pass. Nope,
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 3: I really don't. Uh, but it goes back to what
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 3: you were saying, people didn't know what they were voting for. Oh,
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 3: I didn't know. It meant that. I didn't know it
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 3: meant this.
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: It was worded very weird.
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah it was.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: It was worded in a way that it was sort
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: of like a mandate that they, I don't know, set
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: into motion a recovery plan or yeah, you know, it
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: was under It was understood, but the wording could have
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: been confusing.
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 2: I think the wording is always confusing.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 8: I mean, even people who are trained to be able
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 8: to read through these things and you readthrow a crapdown
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 8: of them. I feel like it's always it's always like
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 8: a word play. There's always like it. So people don't
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 8: like for the lion thing, who's going to go read
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 8: through this thing and see that there's you know, this
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 8: trophy language put in there that could be transposed onto
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 8: elk and deer and stuff in the future, didn't.
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 3: I just see a clip of Cam Haynes. He said,
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 3: I read it and I didn't know how to vote,
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 3: like if it was if it was me voting, because
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know what I was supposed to do.
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just because the way the whole thing.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 3: Was a word.
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 1: On the issues, the broader wolf issue. I'm of the
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: opinion and I think you could you could arrive at
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 1: this from a religious perspective, You could arrive at this
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: from a secular historical view would be that there are animals,
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: there are wild animals that live on our landscape, okay,
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: that have just been there. They're there because God place
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: them there. They're there because these billions of years of
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: Earth history and all all these evolutions and ecological upheavals
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: and things a place in there. But there's a there's
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: a static nature to wildlife. And you got and you
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: go look and you go like, Okay, at what point
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: in history do I go and declare it being normal? Okay?
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: Meaning some people would argue, well, the place ischine. That
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: should be normal, and we should bring back mammos and
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: bring back short face bears and turn them all loose,
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: because that's when humans showed up in the New World,
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: and so normal should be that day. I tend to
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: view normal normal in my mind, just because you have
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: to pick an arbitrary point. Normal in my mind is
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: the distribution of wildlife at the time of European contact.
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 1: And I don't I don't believe in removing certain turtles
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: from the landscape. I don't believe in removing certain birds
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: from the landscape. I don't believe in removing certain invertebrates
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 1: from the landscape. I don't like extinction. I don't like
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: extra patient. I just don't. I don't care what it is.
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: I don't like extinction and extirpation. And here's where it
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 1: gets like a little bit complicated, because I do think
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: that a right like like animals have a right to
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: be on the landscape. There's a reality that we live
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: in and all of those spieceis are going to be
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: need to be managed from a very human perspective of
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: what are our needs and what are the balancing thing
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: because we're here.
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 8: And we're the biggest consumers of everything, and we affect
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 8: more change. We never even have to leave your living
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 8: room to affect what happens out.
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 3: In the woods.
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and as we as we discovered, like in certain areas,
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: like with forest management, not doing anything is not the
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: answer in a lot of in a lot of areas,
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: not doing anything, letting it do its own natural thing
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 1: isn't the answer, right, because we've we're here, Yeah.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 3: We're here.
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: We've stirred things up so much.
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 2: We got LODs everywhere.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 8: We consume all these different you know, things that we
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 8: take out of wood or fuel and rocks and sand,
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 8: and sure everything's disrupted by by man. And there's what
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 8: eight billion of us on the on the planet.
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 9: Now.
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like grizzly bears. Yeah, I like seeing them.
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 1: I've never been sad to see a grizzly bear. I
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: love grizzly bears. I don't think grizzly bears should be
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: listed under the.
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 3: Es A right, agreed.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: It's like both of those things are simultaneously true for me.
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 1: I love them. It's time to come off the list.
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 3: You said a lot right there, So you went, you
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 3: went back thousands of years for animals and you brought
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 3: up God or you brought up evolution, whatever it is
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 3: that that people believe. I think the same idea exists
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 3: for humans because people say, oh, they were here first
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 3: or it's their home. Well, where are we from? You know,
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 3: where exactly are we from? If you believe in the
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 3: evolutionary process or the creation process, what we still land
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 3: here on earth?
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: Like imagine someone in Africa saying, well, they were here first? Yeah,
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: define who's there right right?
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 3: And it's always just an interesting It really throws me
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 3: off when I when I hear that a lot, the
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 3: whole they were here first thing and you know, basically,
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 3: but the other thing that you brought up about grizzlies
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 3: and ESA and you brought it up earlier with some billboards.
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 3: It wasn't a holl sponsored billboard, but I designed maybe
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 3: you've seen it. I think it's at the north end
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 3: of Yellowstone in the South in Wyoming, there's a billboard
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 3: that says, I think it's like grizzly bear recovery is
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 3: a conservation success story. So I designed that or whoever
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 3: put it up, and that inspired apparently all these other
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 3: billboards that I think some of the trapping organizations or
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 3: whoever the ones that you mentioned earlier that they've been
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 3: putting up, because it wasn't the typical billboard that would
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 3: come from hunters. Because what I was presented with was, hey,
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 3: do you have any ideas on this on billboards? I said, well,
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 3: what do you got this? And it was like a
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 3: bunch of furs hanging and something like smoke a pack
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 3: of day I don't know, something like that.
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 6: And I'm like, Okay, where are you putting popular bumper?
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 3: Yes? Where where exactly are you putting this? Well, you know,
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 3: the entrance to Yellowstone, Like, Okay, who's coming in and out? Tourists?
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 3: Probably people who don't hunt. I can't believe you're thinking
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 3: this way, So let me work on it. Let's let's
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 3: let's take the grizzly bear situation. Let's look at the
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 3: success story. It is a success story. Let's make it that.
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 3: Let's challenge the public who's coming in. Let's challenge the
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 3: the the anna hunters with kind of their own rhetoric
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 3: and give the actual success story here. We have so
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 3: many things and positive things that we can talk about
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 3: that we've done in the last one hundred years. That's
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 3: the kind of stuff we need the market. That's the
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 3: kind of stuff, you know, that that we need to
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 3: get out there. And apparently apparently that billboard really struck
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 3: a nerve with with the Anna hunting orgs because they're
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 3: not they're shoot. We need to we need to combat
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 3: that a little bit because that's not their usual strategy.
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 3: Usually it's easy. Usually it's you know, some organizations got
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 3: a you know, trailer going down the highway representing the organization.
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 3: They got a picture of a wolf and a and
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 3: a scope ratical over the over the wolf. I'm like,
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 3: is that so that's your one chance to talk to
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 3: the general public and that's what they see is just
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 3: kill them all to minds with that, that's what we're
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 3: putting out. Yeah, you're not winning anything, but it just
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 3: it made me think of that when you brought that up.
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 3: You know, back to the optics thing and back to
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 3: to to messaging and you know where I think we
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 3: should be as an as an industry what we should
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 3: be doing the.
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 1: Question with with grizzlies too. That's interesting in how people
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 1: position it to say that it's hunters that want them off.
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: People lose sight of the fact that you know, who
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: keeps trying to get them off. Is the federal agency
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: that has managed them since the seventies, Yeah, the US
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service. Yeah, are the ones moving to
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 1: remove them from the list? Ye, they're getting like the
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 1: management agent, the federal management agency is getting blocked from
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 1: doing what they think their job is to do, which
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: is removing from the list. You leave you can leave
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 1: the states out of that for a minute, because it's
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: it's them saying.
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 8: It's imagine that job. You know, you got to do this,
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 8: but I'm not going to give you any tools to
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 8: do that with.
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's it. That's the thing to get
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: lost here. And it was the same thing with wolves.
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 1: The US Fish and Wildlife Service moved to remove wolves
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: from the list. They initiate the conversation.
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I would love to get somebody on that we
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 6: can talk about like accurate numbers of lethal removal, because
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 6: like when I went back and did the Idaho bear
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 6: capture with Idaho Fishing Game, it was I think it
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 6: was just prior to July fourth weekend and at that point,
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 6: Montana had killed twenty six grizzly bears that that year.
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 6: For you know, conflict mitigation basically yeah, and you know,
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 6: and typically Wyoming's twice what Montana is and you know,
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 6: Idaho is a handful. So and that's what I see
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 6: all the time, is like, well, if you d list
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 6: hunters are going to kill the it's like, well, somebody's
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 6: killing him right now.
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 9: Right.
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 8: California is a great example of that with with the Mountalliance.
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 3: And it doesn't it doesn't mean yeah to your point,
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 3: I asked that question to uh, all right, if grizzly
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 3: bears are delisted, what's that mean? Maybe twenty hunting tags
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 3: in Montana.
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: Well, the first year it was zero. Okay, the first
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: year it was twenty four and Wyoming okay one, and
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: it which was like I love it exauist the classic wholming. Yeah,
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: it's twenty four in Wyoming. Idaho was doing a symbolic
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: one just to exercise the right.
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 6: Shirt, which was only open to residents, and I got
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 6: to apply for that tag.
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: In Montana on the fish drop, the Fishing Game Agency,
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 1: Montana's Fishing Game Agency under Martha Williams at the time,
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 1: decided to sit it out.
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 2: Didn't want to deal with the bs.
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 1: Probably that just they wanted to see I mean, while
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 1: they want to and the smart thing, I don't want
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 1: to put it that way, not smart thing, but I mean,
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: these other states are conducting tag draws.
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 7: They went through, you know, they spent some money on that.
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 1: They're like they were, they were rolling, and so I
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to, you know, I'm not.
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: I was involved in all the conversations, but I could picture.
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: I could picture both ways. I could picture an eagerness
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: to exercise the right. I could also picture saying I'm
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: gonna I have a feeling about where this might go
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: in the courts, and I'm not gonna go start printing
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: tags and whatnot because I don't have.
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 6: The whole system to return people's money.
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know that this is going through, right.
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, but that brings up a good Wyoming point too, right,
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 6: because you know, Wyoming's like, yep, we're gonna hunt grizzly
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 6: bears the twenty tags. And again, I in Idaho at
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 6: the time, and I was our aready working with Idaho
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 6: Fishing Game to a degree to figure out how to
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 6: change the requirements for bear harvest in Idaho because grizzly
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 6: is such a political football and we're staring at Wyoming,
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 6: where it's like, you don't legally have to take anything
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 6: other than the trophy parts. We're like, well, if this
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 6: isn't going to blow up in our face, then nothing
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 6: will right.
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 3: And it's like that.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 6: It's another example of hunters probably following in line with
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 6: some anti hunters. It's like, oh, I bet if you
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 6: made them take the meat, they wouldn't want to do it, right.
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 3: That's one of the Maggie's still there. That's one of
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 3: the things Maggie that I know American Bear Foundation and
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 3: Wyoming Wildlife Federation is wanting to get pushed through in
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 3: Wyoming is it's one of the few states that doesn't
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 3: have wanton waste laws.
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 5: Iaho.
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 7: It's you don't have to take it in Idaho.
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 6: Now still not on black bear on bear, which was
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 6: according when I was digging in the weedze on that
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 6: it was burdensome to the state to uh have to
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 6: you can just dispose of the carcass and the landfill
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 6: for problem bears or the state would also have to
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 6: adhere to the same regulations, was the way it was
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 6: explained to me. Yeah, as as a hunter, harvest can.
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 3: Be true.
• 2:17:40
  Speaker 1: If you had if the state has wanton waste laws
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: on ducks, and they got wanton waste laws on elk,
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 1: and they got wanton waste laws on deer and doves.
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 1: It would just by a matter of logic extended, they
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: would have wanton waste laws on black bears. Right, I'm
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: gonna share. Let me share you with you. I want
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 1: to share with you. Quick quote, uh John Mack the
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 1: historian John mac farrager who John mac ferriger, a historian
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: who is raised and partly educated in California, and describing
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 1: the frontier of colonial America, you want to already said?
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: He said, European settlers and Native Americans alike considered bear
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: meat the prime game meat. Venison was inferior eating. So
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: I I don't know why if a state is going
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: to go through the trouble spelling out wanton waste laws,
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't extend it to Yeah. Why is that the exception?
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 1: Yea uns because some squeamish people think it's icky.
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 7: Maybe the trick and osis thing.
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 1: Well, then they should have it. They eat then that they.
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 7: Then I'm not you must cook it, Yeah, like.
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: Your chicken and like your pork, and like your bacon.
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 3: You gotta cook it exactly and bear is delicious. How's
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 3: he going to say? I think that's my favorite game
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 3: to eat is black bear. I absolutely love it. And
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it's because if it's a it
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 3: could be a combination.
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 6: Are you coming from A I'm coming from definitely.
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 7: You don't got to convince us. But like, I went
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 7: on a bear hunt in Idaho where.
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 3: There was a group.
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 7: Of hunters and it was hound hunting, and I was
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 7: the only one it took that bear meat home.
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, but buck Bowden just told you
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: it's an exception for one of his clients to take.
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 7: His moose meat. It's like a convenience thing. It's like
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 7: I don't want to be bothered with it, which is.
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: I had a friend that went on a bear hunt
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 1: in Canada and they were so flabbergas that he wanted
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: to bring his bear home from the bear hunt. They
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 1: tried to convince him that he couldn't.
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 2: He did that to me in Quebec.
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he had to be like, what do you mean,
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: I can't? He just can't because of this that and
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 1: their thing. So he started making some calls around and
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: he's like, listen, I can, and I'm gonna.
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 1: I had to fight with him about it.
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 8: I left two bears in Quebec and this is like
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 8: twenty years ago now, and the guy's like, no, you
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 8: can't take them here.
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 2: They're riddled with worms.
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: Oh no, they were giving them like a like a
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 1: regulation thing the border. Well, he did all of his
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 1: own homework.
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 8: I was going to fly it back because I flew there.
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 8: I mean I didn't drive. I was living in Arizona, Quebecs,
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 8: you know, but m Yeah, they wouldn't let me take
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 8: it back. And then I found out afterwards when I
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 8: got back that it was bs that I had. You know,
• 2:20:47
  Speaker 8: I didn't just brought it to a meat process or
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 8: maybe got a frozen and chipped or whatever.
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 2: He didn't even get my heights.
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 1: Never got them.
• 2:20:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was weird.
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 1: If people want to debate the merits of salvage requirements,
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: debate the merits of salvage requirements, But if you're gonna
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 1: apply salvage requirements to game animals, I mean it just
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 1: seems like it can just apply if you like, I
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 1: know what side I would argue on. But if you
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: want a debate, like, can the government tell you to
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 1: remove certain stuff from the woods. Alaska uses salvage requirements
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: in a way to almost like guide's activities. They have
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 1: areas where they're like, you have to bring the moose
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 1: ribs out on the rack. I think they even had
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 1: an area where you needed to remove the liver. They
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: got areas where certain permits if you kill a moose,
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 1: you gotta cut its antler in half, muscos, you gotta
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 1: destroy its trophy value if you're gonna hunt the area.
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 1: So they're and this is not a softy state, I'll
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 1: point out, No, they're guiding. They're directly saying, here's who
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 1: we want. These are the people we're looking for. If
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 1: you're gonna hunt moose in this area, you're gonna be
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 1: the kind of guy that's gonna bring the ribs out
• 2:21:57
  Speaker 1: on the bone, or you're gonna be the kind of
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 1: guy that's willing to cut that antler in half and
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 1: then bring it out because it's you know, they're they're they're.
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 8: Because they want to see you pack out an extra
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 8: couple hundred pounds.
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 1: They're just they're sort of playing there. I mean, I'll
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 1: put it gently, I mean they're playing favorites with certain
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 1: user groups.
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 3: Can you clue those antlers back together?
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 6: No, for sure you can't. Like the state of the
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 6: State of Montana two years ago they changed the regulations
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 6: to where you don't have to keep your duck legs yep.
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 6: And I'm like, I'm the type of person where I'm like,
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 6: if you don't know how to cook a duck leg
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 6: and eat it, you shouldn't be hunting ducks.
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 1: Sure, pretend your game regulation? Yeah, tell us How? Tell
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 1: us how people can find out about how and read
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 1: the what you guys get involved in?
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 3: How for wildlife dot org social media, we basically do
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 3: everything on Instagram. It's just the path we chose. That's
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 3: how underscore org and uh uh, you can sign up
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 3: for free alerts so when we do have actions, you
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 3: get those emails. Those emails are very detailed. We work
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 3: with a lot of state partners we call them conservation partners,
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 3: but basically to get on the right track with everything,
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 3: it's not us and how saying we should do this,
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 3: we should write it up this way. We're very very
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 3: reliant on who we consider the experts. So when you
• 2:23:25
  Speaker 3: get that information, it's probably going to be the best
• 2:23:29
  Speaker 3: info you find on that on that issue on you know,
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 3: here it is broken down and then here's how you
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 3: get involved.
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 1: And you guys covered you got what is your explain
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: to people what your sort of jurisdiction is around the country,
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 1: Like what states do you follow?
• 2:23:43
  Speaker 3: The issues in every everything? It depends on how much time.
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 3: We're very small. It depends on how much time we have,
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 3: the how much time we have to act on the issue.
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 3: Sometimes it's it'll come up and we got to do
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 3: something in five days. It's it's really how.
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 8: It's whether or not we can affect change on it too.
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And our our system is kind of complex, so
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 3: it takes some time to build that. But we we meet,
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 3: you know, with with our group with Everett he Everett
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 3: had Lee he's a part of hall and and Mike Costello,
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 3: who's uh, who's a part of holl And. Then it's
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 3: John and myself and we have a few writers besides that.
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 3: That's that's it. So we're heavily relying on those. On
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 3: those partners, we decide is this a good thing for
• 2:24:30
  Speaker 3: us to get involved in, will it be effective? Does
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 3: the bill have legs? There's that too, because I don't
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 3: want to waste people's time there's thousands of bills.
• 2:24:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you mean things that are just gestures.
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many of those.
• 2:24:44
  Speaker 2: We had one the other day.
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 8: You actually told me yesterday that it was there was
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 8: all my care. You take a look at this because
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 8: we had one of our partners reached out, he's like, hey,
• 2:24:51
  Speaker 8: can you look into us?
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 3: A lot of people reach out, like from all over
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 3: the world really actually, hey can you help us with this?
• 2:24:56
  Speaker 3: Can you help us with that? So trying to kind
• 2:24:59
  Speaker 3: of boil that down and see what's really important, balance
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 3: it with our time and you know what can be impactful.
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 3: That's that's definitely a challenge. But again, we really we
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 3: really rely on our on our partners.
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 1: And you guys will often send you guys will often
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 1: send your audience outside of Howell to where they need
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 1: where like you'll alert them and send them to other
• 2:25:23
  Speaker 1: partners who are positioned to take on that.
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Perfect example. Probably the largest example is is uh
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 3: crw M Colorado's Responsible Wildlife Management. You've had you've had
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 3: Dan on here. You know what's going on there. We
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 3: recognize that they are spearheading that issue in Colorado. They
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 3: are set up to campaign against it, they are set
• 2:25:48
  Speaker 3: up to fight it legally. Everything you know, they're they
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 3: are a C four. So in recognizing that we have
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 3: made that a national issue, talk to Dan in October
• 2:26:01
  Speaker 3: or September. They didn't have Instagram. I don't think he'd
• 2:26:05
  Speaker 3: ever been on a podcast before. He was going to
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 3: need a lot of help. Where we came in was
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 3: all right, we're going to tell everybody about you and
• 2:26:11
  Speaker 3: make this a national make this a national issue, and
• 2:26:14
  Speaker 3: through all people John knows and the few people I
• 2:26:17
  Speaker 3: know and whatnot we reached out to.
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 2: I think he's been on seventy five podcasts now.
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it was through through Yannis
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 3: is what eventually brought him here. But yeah, we are
• 2:26:29
  Speaker 3: willing to promote other organizations to We certainly tell people
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 3: who want to donate to us because they don't know
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 3: any better. They're like, oh, we should donate to you
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 3: for this Colorado thing. Or I'm like, no, we can't,
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 3: we can't do anything there. But who you should donate to?
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 3: And we should talk are these guys?
• 2:26:46
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 8: Because there's a misconception out there and I think I
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 8: think that that number actually gets misconstrued a lot, like, oh,
• 2:26:53
  Speaker 8: I don't want to you know, donate to so and
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 8: so because they can use eighty percent of their other
• 2:26:59
  Speaker 8: money to our salaries and blah blah blah blah blah.
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 8: But the actual number is only twenty percent of your
• 2:27:06
  Speaker 8: expenditure as a five oh one C three could be
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 8: used towards lobbying and so everything else has to be
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 8: either educational or administrative or working on projects and so
• 2:27:17
  Speaker 8: on and so forth. So people take that number of
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 8: the misconstrue it. So we recognized in that situation that
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 8: Charles has just giving you that, Okay, if one hundred
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 8: thousand dollars came to us, then we can only spend
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 8: twenty thousand dollars doing it. It's money not well spent, right.
• 2:27:32
  Speaker 8: We yes, we could have did a lot of educational
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 8: things to make it work, but it's the person that's
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 8: going to be the most effective.
• 2:27:40
  Speaker 2: We want to win. Yeah, that's what we are who
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 2: want We want to win.
• 2:27:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there are rules basically is there's rules to five
• 2:27:48
  Speaker 3: and one C threes. But overall, I think you know,
• 2:27:51
  Speaker 3: as a organizationally, the five and one C threes, the
• 2:27:55
  Speaker 3: C four is the national brands, the state, the national organizations,
• 2:27:59
  Speaker 3: the state organizations, they tend to it's it's competitive. It's
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 3: a little bit competitive, and if one of those orgs
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 3: kind of takes on an issue, it's hard to get
• 2:28:10
  Speaker 3: the other orgs to to support these guys over here
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 3: who are leading that charge. When but you know, for
• 2:28:18
  Speaker 3: the results that we want, we should all jump on board.
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 3: We should all jump on board. Yeah, right, because we
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 3: want to win this thing, right, I don't I don't
• 2:28:25
  Speaker 3: care who's who's who's leading the fight or whatever.
• 2:28:28
  Speaker 2: We don't need the recognition for it.
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 8: Like, yeah, okay, who cares if it's this org or
• 2:28:32
  Speaker 8: that org that was leading the fight. As long as
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 8: everybody aligns with the same messaging and the same purpose,
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 8: let's let's get there. Yeah, let's let's you know, make
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 8: a difference.
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 3: We'd like to actually, you know, if people ask us
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 3: what our mission is or whatnot, I actually want to
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 3: go out of business, which would be you know, thirty
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 3: years from now. We have enough public support to make
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 3: the ani hunting argument irrelevant. And I really do think
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 3: that can be done through the right through the right channels.
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 3: We touched on it earlier, but that can't be done.
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 3: But that's our goal, actually go out of business. So
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 3: because I would much rather go hunting and spend time
• 2:29:11
  Speaker 3: doing the things I like to do instead of instead
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 3: of this full time job which has been basically the
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 3: last yeah, three years since we kind of started working
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 3: on it.
• 2:29:22
  Speaker 6: Or you go hunting, now, what you think about or
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 6: the issue is not the fun stuff.
• 2:29:25
  Speaker 8: It's yeah, I was talking the other day. We're I mean,
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 8: that's my best hunting buddy right there. We hunted all
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 8: over the country together. Now when we get together, we
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 8: talk about how stuff instead of talking about, oh did
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 8: you see that elk over there? And you know, how
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 8: should we approach that?
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 2:29:44
  Speaker 3: And we hunt once a year now since we started
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 3: that's yeah, yeah, so it takes a lot of time,
• 2:29:51
  Speaker 3: but together.
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 2: Once a year we still hunt a lot.
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah together, Yeah.
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 6: I gotta I gotta give you guys a plug, right, Steve,
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 6: you I've heard of meat Eater experiences. Oh right, So
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 6: Cypress Cove, Louisiana, we're going to be down there hosting fishing,
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 6: doing a bunch of super fun stuff. A bunch of
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 6: us and Howl for Wildlife is going to be donating
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 6: to a spot for two people to Cypress Cove with
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 6: the Meat Eater crew. Oh all, you got to do
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 6: is go over to howl for Wildlife dot org and
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 6: get a membership, right, and then you'll be entered to
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 6: win the trip for two to Cypress Cove with everybody
• 2:30:38
  Speaker 6: here at meat Eater. Now, if you want to skip
• 2:30:42
  Speaker 6: that line or the random draw, you can go to
• 2:30:46
  Speaker 6: the meat eater dot com forward slash Experiences and use
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 6: the code howel dash five hundred dash donation and when
• 2:30:55
  Speaker 6: you buy your spot to Cypress Cove, five hundred bucks
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 6: goes back to howe for Wildlife dot org. Oh what
• 2:31:03
  Speaker 6: do they put in howel dash five hundred dash donation?
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 3: Got it?
• 2:31:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Cal and thank you guys, Thank you, thank
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 1: you appreciate that coming on the show. And we'll wait
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 1: a couple of months and the whole landscape will change.
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 1: You can come back on and talk about it again. Yep,
• 2:31:18
  Speaker 1: you'd be like we won, all right, guys, thanks for
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 1: coming on, man, Thank you.
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 5: Is They looked out for Bumpey's pillar.
• 2:31:47
  Speaker 11: Such abundance and be wooty they saw. But when they
• 2:31:53
  Speaker 11: looked century later, that value was empty, and the animals
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 11: where were gone. Now they looked at one another, they said,
• 2:32:08
  Speaker 11: what will we do now? Well, our livelihoods ending Yeah,
• 2:32:16
  Speaker 11: but I'll be damn if that's the last one.
• 2:32:19
  Speaker 5: That I saw said. Our wildlife must be made team.
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 4: M h.
• 2:32:31
  Speaker 5: For our lifestyle to still.
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 1: Be made.
• 2:32:40
  Speaker 11: Conservation it is called mem.
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah, this wildlife is worth.
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 11: More harvest for the market, owned by the people.
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 5: All all the wild things in time held trunced by all.
• 2:33:11
  Speaker 11: The agent sees to be managed but not confined by
• 2:33:16
  Speaker 11: state lines. And later all those sense the problem. After
• 2:33:24
  Speaker 11: the war was fought and was won. Folks, our food
• 2:33:29
  Speaker 11: came from the grocery, you know. He comes from chopping
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 11: and semonid around nothing.
• 2:33:38
  Speaker 5: Our wildlife must be maintained.
• 2:33:47
  Speaker 11: For our lifestyle to still remain.
• 2:33:57
  Speaker 5: Conservation. He is calling me, you have this, wowld it is.
• 2:34:10
  Speaker 1: Worth Wildlife is a citizen owned renewable resource held in
• 2:34:21
  Speaker 1: trust by an agency that assesses and allocates the resource
• 2:34:27
  Speaker 1: in a democratic fashion, with an eye toward people utilizing
• 2:34:30
  Speaker 1: it but not damaging it in the long term.
• 2:34:36
  Speaker 12: Wolde must be mad to him for our lifestyle to
• 2:34:48
  Speaker 12: still remain. Conservation is calling me, yeah.
• 2:35:04
  Speaker 5: This wildlife is worth living.
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 10: Mm hmmm.
• 2:35:13
  Speaker 11: Conservation is calling me.
• 2:35:23
  Speaker 5: Yea, this wildlife
• 2:35:27
  Speaker 11: Is worth living.