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Stock Up, Stock Down: August Edition · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:05
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tigers Territory, part of
0:09
Speaker 1: the out Terrator Network, a Tiger's podcast.
0:12
Speaker 2: I'm Karen Szechley with me.
0:13
Speaker 1: Is always a man who's so high on Cloud nine
0:16
Speaker 1: is basically cloud tendy And how you doing?
0:20
Speaker 3: Hey? Doing? All right, Karen, let's go right into it today.
0:24
Speaker 3: I think we want to start by talking about Glaber Torres.
0:27
Speaker 3: What have we kind of said about Glabor Toreres all year? Like, man,
0:30
Speaker 3: he's been so consistent, he's been so good, he's been
0:33
Speaker 3: a complete rock for this team, for this lineup, and
0:37
Speaker 3: then you look up in his last nineteen games, his
0:41
Speaker 3: last eighty played appearances, sitting one seventy three two twenty
0:45
Speaker 3: five one base the walk total slipped only five walks
0:49
Speaker 3: in that span to fifteen strikeouts, had a couple mistakes
0:53
Speaker 3: in the field, had arguably a pretty important base running
0:57
Speaker 3: error in Chicago. What's up with Glaber Torres? I think
1:01
Speaker 3: that is going to be the topic that we start
1:04
Speaker 3: with today.
1:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, as I've said before, like I'm familiar with
1:09
Speaker 1: the talking points around Glabor Torres from his time with
1:12
Speaker 1: the Yankees, and and and the way that I've always
1:16
Speaker 1: thought of Glabor was that when things are right, things
1:20
Speaker 1: are really fun. It's like it's a classic like if
1:24
Speaker 1: you like this person, if you like this job, you
1:27
Speaker 1: overlook kind of the warts of it. But the moment that,
1:31
Speaker 1: the moment like things are a little bit lesser, like
1:34
Speaker 1: those warts become like huge and it's all you can
1:36
Speaker 1: talk about.
1:37
Speaker 2: And that's kind of what's going on. Like it's not a.
1:39
Speaker 1: Coincidence that the Tigers, even though like they are, you know,
1:43
Speaker 1: they ride the ship a little bit like during this
1:46
Speaker 1: downstretch from what they were like the a Glabor's play
1:49
Speaker 1: has gone down, so that should tell you his value
1:52
Speaker 1: and then be like all these like little things that
1:55
Speaker 1: were all right, well, you know you don't run that
1:57
Speaker 1: well and you know it's not that consistent in the field,
2:01
Speaker 1: it becomes how did he not beat out that double play?
2:06
Speaker 1: Like like like seriously, what was that at second base?
2:10
Speaker 1: You know, like the tone changes like that with Glaber,
2:13
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes I think, like at this point,
2:17
Speaker 1: Glabor is who Glaber is, here's the reason you got
2:19
Speaker 1: him on a one year deal.
2:20
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah.
2:20
Speaker 1: We've been over all of this, but I still we
2:24
Speaker 1: can pull up this graphic right now, code who you
2:25
Speaker 1: guys are watching on YouTube.
2:28
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of the macro.
2:30
Speaker 1: And then when you look at his Baseball Savant page,
2:33
Speaker 1: it's a lot of red there, Cody, It's a lot
2:35
Speaker 1: of red.
2:35
Speaker 2: It's a lot of.
2:36
Speaker 1: Hey, you know, expect the baron average, INSPECTU, slugging, you know,
2:41
Speaker 1: walk percentage, K percentage.
2:43
Speaker 2: Chase was like square up. It's like, all right, well,
2:46
Speaker 2: it seems like he's still doing okay. He's still doing okay.
2:48
Speaker 1: If you look at his game logs on Baseball Reference,
2:51
Speaker 1: you can kind of see the numbers dwinndoline as he's
2:54
Speaker 1: been on this bad stretch that that that you just reference.
2:57
Speaker 1: But the thing is, Labor is still one of the
3:00
Speaker 1: more valuable and one of the more consistent players on
3:03
Speaker 1: this team. And we kind of bring this up a
3:07
Speaker 1: lot recently just for whatever reason.
3:09
Speaker 2: He's one of the.
3:10
Speaker 1: Guys that is a stable presence on the team and
3:15
Speaker 1: in the lineup, and with injuries that have been experienced
3:18
Speaker 1: this year and then just kind of like the chaotic
3:20
Speaker 1: situation with the pitching department in general, there's there's a
3:25
Speaker 1: lot of good of having Glaber Torres presence in the lineup,
3:30
Speaker 1: in the clubhouse and and and and.
3:32
Speaker 2: On the field.
3:33
Speaker 1: So like, I do get the complaints about labor, but
3:39
Speaker 1: I also think hot take like the good has certainly
3:44
Speaker 1: outweighed the bad in his experience with the Tigers. This
3:47
Speaker 1: is not this is not someone you want to run
3:49
Speaker 1: out of town right now.
3:51
Speaker 3: No, I think it will be okay. I would chock
3:54
Speaker 3: this up to he was kind of due for a slump.
3:58
Speaker 3: I mean, he has come out of his approach little bit,
4:00
Speaker 3: but man is his ops. The first three months of
4:04
Speaker 3: the season seven forty five, eight forty two, eight sixty,
4:08
Speaker 3: Even the first half plus of July he was really good.
4:12
Speaker 3: He finished that month at seven seven and then so
4:16
Speaker 3: far in August five to ninety one. He was going
4:19
Speaker 3: to go through something like this and it's about time
4:22
Speaker 3: to snap out of it. I think that's fair. I
4:24
Speaker 3: think you're right. The other stuff, it just feels magnified
4:26
Speaker 3: when he's not playing as well, when he's not producing offensively.
4:30
Speaker 3: This has always been part of his game. It hasn't
4:33
Speaker 3: been as glaring in his time with the Tigers, largely
4:36
Speaker 3: because he's been such a positive presence. Look, the season
4:41
Speaker 3: gets long, some guys get worn down, but Glaber's a
4:43
Speaker 3: veteran he's been through this before. I would not be
4:46
Speaker 3: surprised if he snaps out of the spell pretty quickly. Yeah.
4:50
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the I don't know why
4:52
Speaker 1: it like sticks out in my mind, but one of
4:55
Speaker 1: the one of the Glaber Torres things I think of
5:00
Speaker 1: was a quote that he had when the skid really
5:03
Speaker 1: started for the Tigers, and that was like, look, we
5:06
Speaker 1: don't want to be playing our best baseball in June.
5:08
Speaker 1: We don't want to be playing our best baseball in July.
5:10
Speaker 1: We want to be playing September, October, blah blah blah.
5:13
Speaker 1: And And the thing about Glaber, part of the value
5:17
Speaker 1: of Glabor is he can say that having been through it,
5:21
Speaker 1: like you said, like Riley Green can say it, and
5:24
Speaker 1: it's like all right, dude, you're twenty four, Like you
5:27
Speaker 1: just got here, you know, Like Tor can say it
5:30
Speaker 1: like all the everybody is eligible to say it, but
5:32
Speaker 1: like Labor's been through the rigors of postseason baseball and
5:37
Speaker 1: like expectations and ups and downs, and the fact that
5:39
Speaker 1: he said it, I was like, okay, Like they have
5:42
Speaker 1: like the right guys in the clubhouse to kind of
5:44
Speaker 1: rite the ship, which again we are seeing as much
5:47
Speaker 1: as things look dire at times, like the Tigers are
5:50
Speaker 1: still at the add or near the top of the
5:52
Speaker 1: American League. They're certainly not the Dodgers right now. They're
5:56
Speaker 1: certainly not the Yankees right now. And and if you
6:00
Speaker 1: look around the like major League Baseball, they're in pretty
6:03
Speaker 1: good shape all things, since their astros just had another
6:05
Speaker 1: arm injury, you know what I mean.
6:07
Speaker 2: So like he's a.
6:09
Speaker 1: Perfect metaphorical and literal stabilizing presence, and that is why
6:14
Speaker 1: he is this week's chart topper of the Week, presented
6:18
Speaker 1: by DraftKings, because sometimes the chart topping doesn't necessarily mean
6:27
Speaker 1: you're playing one hundred percent. Well, it could be just
6:30
Speaker 1: the subject matter. And the subject matter of Labor Torres
6:33
Speaker 1: has been high end. And we also have a pick
6:36
Speaker 1: related to Labor Torres on Friday, and that is for
6:40
Speaker 1: him to get out of this slump. Cody, I have
6:43
Speaker 1: Labor Torres to collect two hits on Friday, and I
6:51
Speaker 1: thought about like a variety of things that I like, Like,
6:54
Speaker 1: it seems like a good time for him to get
6:57
Speaker 1: out of the slump. He only has one multi hit
6:59
Speaker 1: game this month. That seems like something that will correct itself.
7:05
Speaker 1: And projected starter Jose Urana old friend seems like the
7:11
Speaker 1: type of picture that Glabor can attack. He throws the
7:15
Speaker 1: sinking fastball thirty four percent of the time. But if
7:18
Speaker 1: I told you that Labor Torres is a three h
7:21
Speaker 1: one hitter and a five forty eight slug on sinking
7:25
Speaker 1: fastballs this year, by the way, that's below expected on both.
7:29
Speaker 1: So like a little bit of bad you know, bad
7:32
Speaker 1: luck there for Labor there too. And like so total
7:36
Speaker 1: bases would have been in consideration. You could have done
7:39
Speaker 1: the hail Mary home run pick, but I thought the
7:41
Speaker 1: nice safe get himself back on the board metaphorically, labor
7:45
Speaker 1: Torres two plus hits as plus two hundred on DraftKings sportsbook,
7:50
Speaker 1: you can use code foul at five dollars and get
7:53
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars in bonus betts. So that's my pick,
7:56
Speaker 1: Cody Labor Torres two plus hits plus two hundred.
8:00
Speaker 3: Right, that's some good stuff here. And like I said,
8:03
Speaker 3: this slump it's not going to go on forever. I
8:06
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8:37
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, I have a little bit
8:40
Speaker 1: of a programming note. We are recording this before the
8:44
Speaker 1: Thursday night game the school will start, because we wanted
8:47
Speaker 1: to do a weekend recap and it's a four game series,
8:51
Speaker 1: so and I thought it would be kind of nice
8:53
Speaker 1: to kind of take stock with the stock report on
8:58
Speaker 1: the Tigers team as we are into the middle of
9:01
Speaker 1: August now as the clock in the calendar continues to turn,
9:04
Speaker 1: so we're just gonna kind of rapid fire this Cody
9:08
Speaker 1: and and just kind of get get our thoughts on
9:11
Speaker 1: each player, some major, some some injured, some minor league guys.
9:16
Speaker 2: Like we'll get as many as we can.
9:17
Speaker 1: And I wanted to start with Dylan Dingler, who, by
9:20
Speaker 1: the way, is a two point six war player right
9:23
Speaker 1: now two point six war second only to McKinstry among
9:27
Speaker 1: position players on the team.
9:28
Speaker 2: Dylan Dingler stuck up, stock down.
9:31
Speaker 3: I think this guy's stock is up here, and he's
9:33
Speaker 3: continued to hit the ball pretty well. When the Tigers
9:36
Speaker 3: were really slumping, he was one guy producing. It's becoming
9:41
Speaker 3: easy to forget that this is his first full major
9:44
Speaker 3: league season and he's a catcher with a two seventy
9:48
Speaker 3: two average. He's got eleven homers. Look at how he
9:51
Speaker 3: grades out plus thrower plus plocker plus framer. About it
9:56
Speaker 3: as good of a year as you could realistically ask
9:58
Speaker 3: for for Dylan Dingler. Future starting to look really bright,
10:02
Speaker 3: like he's going to be the man behind the plate
10:04
Speaker 3: for a while. Yeah.
10:06
Speaker 1: I believe he's on a five or six game hit streak. Obviously,
10:10
Speaker 1: has the biggest indication of anything is he had like
10:14
Speaker 1: the trust of aj Hinch, the trust of Chris Feeder,
10:16
Speaker 1: and the trust of Tek skuogbl That's a trifecta that
10:20
Speaker 1: is well earned. You don't just kind of walk in
10:23
Speaker 1: and get that, and he earned it like pretty much
10:25
Speaker 1: right away. As soon as Jake Rogers went down and
10:28
Speaker 1: became pretty clear this was you know, this was his
10:30
Speaker 1: gig now, so I want to give him a ton
10:33
Speaker 1: of credit there and we'll we'll we'll stick with the
10:36
Speaker 1: numerical system ascending special tols. And we talked about him
10:40
Speaker 1: on our last podcast, similar to Dingler, a guy who's
10:45
Speaker 1: been really consistent even when the team wasn't that well.
10:49
Speaker 1: I think stuck up down. I think I'm a hold
10:53
Speaker 1: on on on Spencer torkl Sin in the sense that
10:56
Speaker 1: he's kind of been other than a dip in June,
10:58
Speaker 1: kind of the same guy as we talked about. So like,
11:00
Speaker 1: you know, it's not up, it's not down. He's pretty
11:03
Speaker 1: he's been pretty stable the entire calendar year.
11:05
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, I'm gonna say it's up. I guess it
11:08
Speaker 3: depends what we're comparing it to. But just the fact
11:11
Speaker 3: that he has stayed so steady that he's come out
11:15
Speaker 3: of of some of his mini dry spells, Like that's
11:19
Speaker 3: a vote of confidence. Just maintaining this high level of
11:22
Speaker 3: performance means he's still trending up because this has not
11:26
Speaker 3: leveled off. He's still hitting the ball well. He's you know,
11:30
Speaker 3: entering some uncharted territory in terms of Tigers with two
11:34
Speaker 3: thirty home run seasons in a span of three years
11:36
Speaker 3: doing stock up for Spencer Totals.
11:39
Speaker 1: All right, and Glabor. I mean, we just talked about Glaber,
11:42
Speaker 1: but we don't want to skip them here. Like I'm
11:44
Speaker 1: gonna say it's it's definitely a stock down. That's the
11:47
Speaker 1: whole point of what we just talked about. But in
11:49
Speaker 1: terms of my comf like if you're selling your Glabor stock,
11:52
Speaker 1: like I'll call I'll call my agent and have purchased
11:56
Speaker 1: your shares because I'm going like, eventually this this will correct.
12:00
Speaker 2: That's my opinion on it.
12:01
Speaker 3: I think we've talked about this before. Still fascinating to think,
12:04
Speaker 3: like what is he going to get in free agency?
12:06
Speaker 3: He came here wanting to get one hundred million dollar contract.
12:09
Speaker 3: I don't I still have a hard time seeing that.
12:12
Speaker 3: I'm thinking like three sixty makes more sense. I don't
12:17
Speaker 3: know that the Tigers would want to resign them based
12:19
Speaker 3: on you got McGonagall coming, you got some other guys
12:23
Speaker 3: you think really highly of. But I don't know. Maybe
12:26
Speaker 3: you don't rule it out because I'm not sure he's
12:28
Speaker 3: going to get the highest version of what he wants
12:32
Speaker 3: and if the stock dips in free agency a little
12:36
Speaker 3: bit hey, it wouldn't hurt to stay in that room.
12:40
Speaker 1: I think lessons in free agency the past couple of
12:43
Speaker 1: years Cody have kind of taught us that it's hard
12:45
Speaker 1: to anticipate. And I think some guys, I mean literally
12:50
Speaker 1: hold out for their market what they deem their market value,
12:52
Speaker 1: and it doesn't always manifest. It manifest itself that way.
12:55
Speaker 1: So I do think it will be an open minded
12:57
Speaker 1: approach by the Tigers, but probably not gonna be his
13:01
Speaker 1: first offer. I think I would phrase it like that,
13:04
Speaker 1: all right, let's go, let's go good old Hobby baiyas
13:08
Speaker 1: stock report Cody, you know, because he's back to center
13:13
Speaker 1: field Hobby and he and you know, he looks as
13:16
Speaker 1: comfortable as ever there right now, he's gone through his lungs.
13:21
Speaker 1: But like, oddly, I always feel like he always gets
13:25
Speaker 1: like a base knock whenever I think he's about to go,
13:28
Speaker 1: Like I was like, all right, here comes the nose
13:29
Speaker 1: dye for hobby, and then you know, he gets based
13:32
Speaker 1: on we just saw it this week, he faults the
13:34
Speaker 1: ball off off his leg and you know it's like
13:36
Speaker 1: this could get ugly, not base knock, like he He's
13:40
Speaker 1: oddly done that a lot this year, I.
13:41
Speaker 3: Feel like, yeah, he has it's the beauty of Hobby
13:45
Speaker 3: buyas I was praid to be, Like, Man, the stock's
13:47
Speaker 3: way down, Like you know, since ju July third, he's
13:51
Speaker 3: hitting two fifteen two homers. In this span, he's largely
13:55
Speaker 3: been back to a pretty bad offensive version of high
14:00
Speaker 3: and it's like, well, I don't know if you narrow
14:02
Speaker 3: that to just this month in August, he sitting two
14:05
Speaker 3: seventy eight. He's got a seven to twenty two ops.
14:08
Speaker 3: He's back in center field, and that's proven hugely valuable
14:12
Speaker 3: with Matt feeling back on the il. Just this year fact,
14:15
Speaker 3: Hobby still has a seven thirteen ops. I mean, that's
14:18
Speaker 3: not great, but that is wildly better than anyone would
14:21
Speaker 3: have expected this year. I think I'm still gonna go
14:24
Speaker 3: stock down just because the high upside version of Hobby
14:28
Speaker 3: we saw the plate hasn't actually been.
14:31
Speaker 2: There in a while.
14:33
Speaker 3: This is kind of tough one. I could just as
14:34
Speaker 3: easily tuck myself into, like, well, he's been playing a
14:36
Speaker 3: little better in the past few games. Maybe the stock's up.
14:39
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go stock down just in kind of the
14:41
Speaker 3: big picture, he really has kind of reverted to a
14:44
Speaker 3: more realistic version of himself, but still kind of an
14:50
Speaker 3: important contributor for this team.
14:52
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of guys. This is like a
14:55
Speaker 2: general statement.
14:56
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of guys that like, even when
14:59
Speaker 1: the high end upside is not like manifesting itself, there's
15:02
Speaker 1: still a baseline of impact that you know is there.
15:07
Speaker 1: And and we could not necessarily have said that about
15:10
Speaker 1: him the past two seasons. Definitely is the case this
15:14
Speaker 1: year with his defense and defensive versatility.
15:17
Speaker 3: He has not walked since twenty fourth. He has nine
15:23
Speaker 3: walks off season.
15:26
Speaker 2: I'm almost impressed, Like it's like.
15:28
Speaker 3: That that to maintain a seven twenty two ops with
15:31
Speaker 3: nine walks and your hobby bias, That's that's pretty phenomenal.
15:35
Speaker 1: All right, Next up fellow All Star Zach McKinstry, and
15:40
Speaker 1: I will preface this by saying that McKinstry in the
15:45
Speaker 1: month of July only hit two sixteen. I was after
15:48
Speaker 1: three to twenty one June. Now, in fairness, he hit
15:51
Speaker 1: two hundred in May. Not off to the best of
15:54
Speaker 1: starts in August.
15:57
Speaker 3: I'm going stock down. I it just seemed like McKinstry
16:01
Speaker 3: was uh playing, playing, kind of out of his mind, man,
16:07
Speaker 3: and it was cool to see and it was fun.
16:09
Speaker 3: But you look, you know, last seventy five played appearances,
16:12
Speaker 3: but one sixty two average of five forty nine ops.
16:15
Speaker 3: That's closer to the guy he's been for the bulk
16:20
Speaker 3: of his Tigers career. He's had a couple really big months.
16:24
Speaker 3: He was great really for the entire first half this year,
16:27
Speaker 3: or at least, you know, especially there in June. It's
16:31
Speaker 3: been a pretty hard correction right now. I think you
16:34
Speaker 3: got to you gotta say the stock is down as
16:36
Speaker 3: a result of that.
16:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the the production and then just the
16:41
Speaker 1: overall the overall like usage rate, and that was the
16:46
Speaker 1: word I was looking for. Usage rate is definitely I
16:48
Speaker 1: feel like contributed to that. And honestly, right now, it'd
16:50
Speaker 1: be brilliant if he could play like high end shortstop
16:54
Speaker 1: given everything else that's going on. But we know, like
16:57
Speaker 1: even though he's capable, it's not. That's not really the
17:00
Speaker 1: cards there, Riley Green, Man, I'm going through a lot
17:04
Speaker 1: of all stars. Riley Green's stuck up, stuck down?
17:08
Speaker 2: What do you think?
17:09
Speaker 3: Oh man? All right, we're picking our own sample sizes
17:15
Speaker 3: here on this one. Clearly I'm going stuck up on
17:17
Speaker 3: Riley Green because he was awful for pretty much all
17:21
Speaker 3: of July. He was playing really poorly, and I think
17:24
Speaker 3: he's coming out of it. He's been stinging the ball
17:26
Speaker 3: a little bit lately. Five hits in his last sixteen
17:31
Speaker 3: plate appearances or his last sixteen at bats, eighteen plate appearances.
17:35
Speaker 3: He's only struck out three times. He's walked twice in
17:38
Speaker 3: that span. You know, saw Homer saw some big exit velocities.
17:43
Speaker 3: It's still in there. I think the upswing is coming
17:47
Speaker 3: back for Riley Green after his stock obviously being down
17:50
Speaker 3: there for an extended period.
17:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, you'd like to see that war numbers
17:56
Speaker 1: start to tick up a little bit to kind of
17:58
Speaker 1: match like how you feel even when you know when
18:02
Speaker 1: he's at his best.
18:02
Speaker 2: But yeah, I would agree with that.
18:05
Speaker 1: Good old Wentzel Perez a guy that surprise hasn't gotten
18:10
Speaker 1: a little bit more run. That's probably credit to Hobby,
18:12
Speaker 1: but hasn't gotten as much run in centerfield as I
18:15
Speaker 1: would have anticipated post of Vierling injury. But Wentzel Perez
18:19
Speaker 1: stuck reports.
18:21
Speaker 3: Win Seoul Man, I'm going is this a stock up?
18:26
Speaker 3: Is this is this a hold? I'm a little unsure.
18:29
Speaker 3: One of those things where he's you know what, stock up,
18:33
Speaker 3: it's Winsol. He's always just quietly like playing really well.
18:38
Speaker 3: He's actuallyting three forty four in August, which I would
18:41
Speaker 3: not have guessed. You know that the couple home runs
18:44
Speaker 3: he's had certainly come to mind, but I wouldn't have
18:46
Speaker 3: guessed he has a thousand ops so far in August.
18:48
Speaker 3: Guess what he does with Veerling out again? That makes
18:52
Speaker 3: this all the more important stock up.
18:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as I've said before about Wenssel, he is
19:00
Speaker 1: one of those guys that can kind of provide the juice.
19:04
Speaker 1: And we've seen it a couple of times.
19:06
Speaker 5: Yeah.
19:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, so like so I would I would agree with there.
19:09
Speaker 1: He's he's become quite valuable and also kind of this
19:13
Speaker 1: is I mean this like uh in a good way.
19:16
Speaker 1: He's kind of made Matt and Parker look bad because
19:19
Speaker 1: he came back right the same. But he came back
19:22
Speaker 1: from injury and he has continued to ascend as a
19:25
Speaker 1: player or at least, you know, produce at a level
19:27
Speaker 1: that is expected of him.
19:29
Speaker 3: He did have a little more of a spring training
19:32
Speaker 3: you or the other guys didn't. Even though he did
19:34
Speaker 3: this expended time you know after that, So maybe that's something,
19:37
Speaker 3: Maybe that's nothing. I don't know. It's interesting.
19:40
Speaker 1: It's up to your own interpretation. As they say, how
19:44
Speaker 1: about Cold Keith.
19:46
Speaker 3: Colt Keith, I think he's become like maybe the player
19:50
Speaker 3: the fan base is most split on, despite like he's
19:55
Speaker 3: having a really good year. He has a one to
19:57
Speaker 3: eleven ops plus he has a three four four to
20:00
Speaker 3: on base percentage. You'd like to see him maybe start
20:03
Speaker 3: growing into his power a little more. But I guess what,
20:07
Speaker 3: he just turned twenty four today, so we had a
20:11
Speaker 3: long way to go in the Cold Keith experience. He's
20:15
Speaker 3: he's been a pretty solid contributor at the plate as
20:18
Speaker 3: a result of that, I don't know. I'm timpted to
20:20
Speaker 3: go hold. But then it's like, wait the splits again.
20:24
Speaker 3: He has a thousand ops in August's he's been carrying
20:28
Speaker 3: this lineup a little bit. Going stock up for Cold
20:31
Speaker 3: Keith having a better year than a lot of people
20:33
Speaker 3: are willing to give him credit for.
20:36
Speaker 1: I would also agree on stock up if nothing else
20:40
Speaker 1: than the fact that it looks like he can play
20:43
Speaker 1: capable or at least get to being in a capable
20:45
Speaker 1: third baseman.
20:47
Speaker 3: That's a game changer, maybe for this franchise.
20:50
Speaker 2: I agree. I think that's huge.
20:52
Speaker 3: Sorry for those who want to relive the Alex Bregman saga.
20:55
Speaker 3: You don't need Alex bregmant if cold Keith can play
20:57
Speaker 3: third base at a serviceable level. And I don't think
21:01
Speaker 3: he's ever going to be a plus defender over there,
21:04
Speaker 3: but kind of like he showed at second last year,
21:06
Speaker 3: like he's better than you might think, and he's capable
21:10
Speaker 3: of still getting better. Right now. He grades out even
21:15
Speaker 3: zero defensive unsaved even zero out's above average in one
21:18
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty five innings, a small sample, but he's
21:22
Speaker 3: like negative six or something over there right now.
21:26
Speaker 1: What about another lefty, Carrie Carpenter? And if it matters,
21:32
Speaker 1: he does now have a Fast Food endorsement deal.
21:35
Speaker 3: So actually going with carry bonds and the endorsement is
21:40
Speaker 3: such a bold choice. I kind of love it. I'm
21:44
Speaker 3: going stuck up. Look, we know he needs to walk more.
21:48
Speaker 3: It's kind of ridiculous how little he has walked this season.
21:52
Speaker 3: But since his return from the injury list, the Tigers
21:54
Speaker 3: have been playing a much better brand of baseball. He's
21:58
Speaker 3: continued to hit the ball really well again one thousand
22:01
Speaker 3: ops in August how could you, how could you not
22:06
Speaker 3: go stock up? It's fair to question the approach, and
22:08
Speaker 3: he's he's getting a little chase heavy at times. He's
22:11
Speaker 3: only walked twice since June twenty third, which is wild.
22:17
Speaker 3: Excuse me, May twenty third because he had an il stint.
22:21
Speaker 3: That's wild. You know, for him to continue having success,
22:24
Speaker 3: that's going to have to change a little bit. But
22:26
Speaker 3: he's maintained an eight sixty five ops in that span
22:30
Speaker 3: with only two walks. Let's not critique it too much.
22:33
Speaker 3: This guy's a fulcrum of your lineup.
22:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be let's see, uh mp most impactful
22:43
Speaker 1: player like he's on He's on that list for sure.
22:47
Speaker 2: Uh Andy A Banya is.
22:49
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're giving enough credit to him
22:51
Speaker 1: kind of coming back in like from this Toledo stint
22:54
Speaker 1: and kind of being.
22:55
Speaker 3: In stocks way up. I mean, I I don't know
23:01
Speaker 3: that the stock's ever gonna go through the roof, but
23:04
Speaker 3: this stock was kind of in the cellar, looked like
23:07
Speaker 3: maybe it was going out of business, and now it's
23:10
Speaker 3: back hits in four straight hits in gosh, seven of
23:17
Speaker 3: eleven games, I believe since returning to the team. Yeah,
23:22
Speaker 3: he's he's been the Andy. You know that the Tiger's
23:26
Speaker 3: knowing love.
23:28
Speaker 2: What about Jami Jones.
23:32
Speaker 3: We've seen a little more of him in the field,
23:35
Speaker 3: which has answered my question of why is Jamie not
23:38
Speaker 3: playing in the field more. It's because it hasn't necessarily
23:41
Speaker 3: been pretty at the plate. He hasn't been a huge contributor.
23:47
Speaker 3: It looks like, yeah, it's actually worse than I thought.
23:50
Speaker 3: As I look up the numbers, just going back to
23:53
Speaker 3: even July twenty fifth, he's enough four for twenty four spell.
23:58
Speaker 3: I'm gonna say stock is down. I don't know that that.
24:02
Speaker 3: I wonder what that means. Would the Tigers make a
24:05
Speaker 3: move to replace him with how you lee type thing?
24:10
Speaker 3: Are you actually getting better there? I think is the
24:12
Speaker 3: big question. That's why I think they probably just wait
24:15
Speaker 3: until September call up another bat. Jamai still has had
24:20
Speaker 3: an impactful year for the Tigers seven sixty nine ops
24:24
Speaker 3: and what's a tough role. Not a lot of consistent
24:27
Speaker 3: playing time, a lot of tough late ending at bats.
24:31
Speaker 3: Stocks down, though.
24:33
Speaker 1: I'm gonna answer this one real quickly. I'm gonna group
24:36
Speaker 1: these guys together, Jay, Hen Parker and Jace. You just
24:40
Speaker 1: have to go like given like what expectations were and
24:43
Speaker 1: what like could like what could be coming into this year,
24:48
Speaker 1: it's a it's a stock down, and like we love
24:50
Speaker 1: Parker front of the podcast. You know, Jay hen is
24:53
Speaker 1: a guy that we've been you know, we love the
24:55
Speaker 1: profile for a long time. And then Jace is somebody
24:58
Speaker 1: that you just thought, at least again that aastline thing
25:01
Speaker 1: that I talked about earlier would be there, and it
25:03
Speaker 1: just hasn't been.
25:04
Speaker 2: So, I mean it's hard.
25:05
Speaker 1: It's not really much of an argument for these guys
25:07
Speaker 1: who probably combined for negative war.
25:11
Speaker 3: All things like a good picture. I'm kind of stunned
25:16
Speaker 3: how little Chase Young has played in the major leagues
25:19
Speaker 3: this year. I mean, he wasn't very good when he
25:22
Speaker 3: was up here, and then he had to make some
25:23
Speaker 3: serious swing adjustments. He's still proving he can catch up
25:27
Speaker 3: to velocity, but only eighteen games in the majors. I
25:30
Speaker 3: would not at all have guessed that in February.
25:36
Speaker 1: I think it's almost a whole minus one war for
25:39
Speaker 1: those guys. All right, we are going to get to
25:42
Speaker 1: the pitching staff on the stock Report.
25:45
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26:49
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here with the stock report, we'll
26:52
Speaker 1: go with the one to one of the pitching staff,
26:56
Speaker 1: the one to one of pitchers and all of baseball
26:58
Speaker 1: one teek schoobl Hmmmm.
27:02
Speaker 2: It's a hard one.
27:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, can the stock get any higher? He is coming
27:07
Speaker 3: off a poor outing, there's still a lot of numbers
27:09
Speaker 3: that suggest he has been even better than he was
27:14
Speaker 3: a year ago. What time framer are we judging here?
27:19
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm just gonna say stock up, because
27:21
Speaker 3: this guy's stock has done nothing but rise since the
27:25
Speaker 3: moment he came back from flexor tendon surgery. You want
27:28
Speaker 3: to look at a ridiculous baseball savant page, go look
27:31
Speaker 3: at Trek Scoogles. It is naughty. The degree to which
27:35
Speaker 3: he limits walks and strikes out batters is still almost
27:40
Speaker 3: unprecedented in baseball history. I'm saying this guy stock is up.
27:45
Speaker 3: We'll see what he does against the Twins. We're recording
27:48
Speaker 3: it before this outing. But he's not guaranteed to win
27:51
Speaker 3: the Cy. Young might be a close vote. Some interesting contenders,
27:55
Speaker 3: Hunter Brown, Nathan Yavaldi among them, Garrett Crochet. But I
27:59
Speaker 3: think he's a favorite right now.
28:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna stay a whole just because he's been
28:04
Speaker 1: a nine point eight out of ten for like two
28:08
Speaker 1: years now. So again, there's not much to go up.
28:10
Speaker 1: But your overall point is correct. Favorite talking point of
28:14
Speaker 1: this podcast, Jack flaherity.
28:19
Speaker 3: A tough one. The stock the stock's down. I'll just
28:23
Speaker 3: go bigger picture here. I mean he had a run
28:26
Speaker 3: of good outings there for a minute until a bad
28:28
Speaker 3: one in Chicago, but a four to seven six era
28:32
Speaker 3: Karen and the Tigers signed Jack Flaherty. I I'm not
28:36
Speaker 3: sure I would have banked on him being the guy
28:39
Speaker 3: he was for them last year, but I would have
28:42
Speaker 3: thought the floor was higher, you know, I wouldn't have
28:44
Speaker 3: seen him anyway, which he would have had an era
28:47
Speaker 3: much about four. It's been four to seven six. It's
28:50
Speaker 3: been a ton of inconsistency. Still striking out a lot
28:55
Speaker 3: of guys, but he's just getting hit around. The stocks down.
29:00
Speaker 3: The guy that's supposed to be your number two, and
29:02
Speaker 3: he hasn't pitched up to that level with any degree
29:04
Speaker 3: of consistency this season.
29:07
Speaker 1: The way I would kind of contextualize it is from
29:10
Speaker 1: our perspective. We published the Trek schoogbl interview, which we
29:14
Speaker 1: thought would be one of our bet like bigger podcasts,
29:19
Speaker 1: and the same day, basically Jack Flaherty signed with the Tigers,
29:24
Speaker 1: so we had to do another podcast, and that one
29:26
Speaker 1: overshot the school bol episode in terms of numbers because
29:30
Speaker 1: everyone was that excited about Jack Flaherty and then you
29:33
Speaker 1: fast forward to where we are now, you know it's
29:36
Speaker 1: a little bit different.
29:38
Speaker 2: Casey Mice.
29:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, the stock's going to have to be down here.
29:44
Speaker 3: Mies was so good in the first half, showing, you know,
29:48
Speaker 3: got a lot of praise, looking like the version of
29:50
Speaker 3: Casey Mice he was drafted to be. It has not
29:54
Speaker 3: been that way since the All Star break his era.
29:58
Speaker 3: In those four outings since the break, his five four zero,
30:01
Speaker 3: Not only have the results been a lot worse, the
30:03
Speaker 3: stuff just the eye test has not been the same.
30:06
Speaker 3: The splitter, it's not really been there anymore. Casey Mice
30:10
Speaker 3: has to have the power swinging miss splitter to be
30:12
Speaker 3: at his best, and his most recent outing he thought
30:15
Speaker 3: throwing the breaking ball was better against that lineup, but
30:20
Speaker 3: the stuff wasn't very good. Man, He did okay, He
30:23
Speaker 3: kind of gritted his teeth and got by without the
30:27
Speaker 3: best version of his splitter. I don't know what to
30:31
Speaker 3: make of Casey Mice. So the stock's down right now?
30:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair.
30:35
Speaker 1: And then I kind of wanted to let's let's stick
30:40
Speaker 1: with the starters here. Charlie Morton I feel like it's
30:44
Speaker 1: a I feel like that's enough.
30:45
Speaker 3: It's enough. Yeah too. You know, two pretty solid outings
30:50
Speaker 3: since he was traded for, you know, better results than
30:53
Speaker 3: you might have guessed based on his body at work
30:56
Speaker 3: this season. I'll give it that a slight up.
30:59
Speaker 1: And then Roy Melton, I mean, we talked about him
31:01
Speaker 1: on the last it's hard not to say up.
31:04
Speaker 3: There real ands. No, I've made a lot of money
31:07
Speaker 3: on my Troy Melton stock that I was buying up
31:10
Speaker 3: in like January.
31:13
Speaker 1: Here's another one. You know, talk about guys that are
31:15
Speaker 1: up and down and variants and Bullpens, Brant Herder, you know,
31:19
Speaker 1: at their a pretty rough stretch there. In his last
31:22
Speaker 1: thirteen plus almost fourteen innings, he hasn't allowed a run
31:26
Speaker 1: and he's got a or earned run, i should say,
31:29
Speaker 1: and he's got fourteen k's only one fifty six opponent
31:32
Speaker 1: Baaliant average.
31:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna have to go up here. This is
31:36
Speaker 3: kind of like the Andy of Banya is like, this
31:37
Speaker 3: was pretty close to going out of business there for
31:39
Speaker 3: a while, and he's giving you some pretty solid outings.
31:43
Speaker 3: The command in Chicago still was not great. Worried me
31:47
Speaker 3: for a second, and he got out of it. Yeah,
31:51
Speaker 3: multi ning guy does a lot for this team. It's
31:54
Speaker 3: important to have the version of Brant Herder that is
31:56
Speaker 3: throwing strikes. Last couple of weeks he's been doing at
32:00
Speaker 3: a much better clip than he wasn't one point in July.
32:05
Speaker 1: That sentence right there, it's a lot better had this
32:07
Speaker 1: version of this guy that's throwing strikes. Also applies to
32:10
Speaker 1: Tyler Holton, who will not be getting any MVP votes
32:14
Speaker 1: this year and has definitely had a an up and
32:17
Speaker 1: down season. It seems like if he's able to pinpoint,
32:21
Speaker 1: you know, the black there on the plate, like he's
32:24
Speaker 1: damn near impossible to get to get a hold of.
32:26
Speaker 2: But he just hasn't been consistent.
32:28
Speaker 3: Ye, yeah, I think the stocks down here another one
32:33
Speaker 3: you have to look at a little more big picture.
32:36
Speaker 3: The cutter has never really been the same the command
32:39
Speaker 3: to your point, seems like he's left a lot more
32:41
Speaker 3: balls middle the era in August right now is seven
32:46
Speaker 3: point one one. He did have a better July, like
32:49
Speaker 3: we've seen glimpses of the Holton of old, but yeah,
32:55
Speaker 3: not quite the same guy as last year and overall
32:58
Speaker 3: just hasn't been a great season. He does have a
33:01
Speaker 3: three seven nine era, which is not bad because he's
33:06
Speaker 3: also I don't think called upon as much or quite
33:09
Speaker 3: in the same I don't know, you just don't have
33:11
Speaker 3: the same level of faith when he's entering the game
33:13
Speaker 3: right now.
33:14
Speaker 1: The stocks down, true, that's a good point. We'll best
33:17
Speaker 1: another guy who kind of went through it there a
33:18
Speaker 1: little bits.
33:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sitting here at a rock rocks back up. Wow,
33:23
Speaker 3: that's not easy to do in relief back to against
33:27
Speaker 3: some ninth inning reps. Even with Kyle Finnegan in this bullpen.
33:32
Speaker 3: I like Sea Wolvest throwing strikes. I like see Wolvest
33:35
Speaker 3: healthy and pumping gas. Last few outings, he's been doing that. Overall,
33:39
Speaker 3: He's having a nice season, with the exception of a
33:41
Speaker 3: couple of real blow ups that may be blemish things
33:43
Speaker 3: a little bit. But one point four five war out
33:46
Speaker 3: of the pin. You'll take that.
33:48
Speaker 1: Kyle Finn again, so you just mentioned him. He's also
33:52
Speaker 1: been the best example of what the front office tried
33:55
Speaker 1: to do with the deadline, which it was identify a
33:57
Speaker 1: couple of characteristics and go and get players that fit
34:01
Speaker 1: that they think they can, you know, mold into being
34:04
Speaker 1: a more effective asset and he is really your the
34:09
Speaker 1: facto closer right now. So soccer port on Finnegan.
34:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, the stocks up, he's throwing the splitter a little
34:17
Speaker 3: bit more since he's been with the Tigers, he's had
34:19
Speaker 3: success with it. This was always a good trade acquisition.
34:22
Speaker 3: For as much as the deadline was pinned, it was
34:24
Speaker 3: kind of because like, well, all right, they got Finnigan,
34:26
Speaker 3: he doesn't really miss bats, and then these other guys,
34:29
Speaker 3: like you don't feel great about any of them. Again,
34:32
Speaker 3: I wonder if the order were different, if Finnigan would
34:34
Speaker 3: have been the first guy they traded for, I think
34:37
Speaker 3: the response would have been more positive, and maybe the
34:39
Speaker 3: whole deadline would have been viewed at least a little
34:41
Speaker 3: bit better now. I think, wouldn't it be awesome if
34:44
Speaker 3: they had Finnigan and Ryan Helsley or insert another power
34:48
Speaker 3: leverage reliever who actually misses bats. Then you'd be like, oh,
34:52
Speaker 3: we got a legit pin But we're just talking about
34:55
Speaker 3: Kyle Finnigan here. He's been great, is not allowed to
34:58
Speaker 3: run yet since becoming a Tiger's stocks.
35:00
Speaker 1: Up yeah, Which which brings us to the public perception
35:07
Speaker 1: of one Scott Harris, which I would just say he
35:12
Speaker 1: because of all those things you laid out there, I
35:14
Speaker 1: would say that in this season cycle, so I'm including
35:19
Speaker 1: like the acquisitions in winter time. This is probably about
35:23
Speaker 1: as low as the Scott Harris public opinion poll would
35:27
Speaker 1: be because of the lack of and by way, not
35:29
Speaker 1: just fans, like people were criticizing the Tiger like commentators
35:33
Speaker 1: like Carl Ravig. We're on ESPN, we're criticizing the Tigers
35:37
Speaker 1: for not being more aggressive at the trade deadline, and
35:41
Speaker 1: obviously that falls on him. He would he would say
35:43
Speaker 1: that I know better than you or I and all
35:46
Speaker 1: that stuff, and he probably is correct there. But but
35:51
Speaker 1: perception wise his stock is.
35:53
Speaker 3: It's kind of a wild juxposition. The Tigers are in
35:56
Speaker 3: first place, they have their best team in more than
35:59
Speaker 3: a decade, They have a top farm system, they have
36:02
Speaker 3: two of the top prospects in all of baseball, and
36:06
Speaker 3: somehow Scott Harris's public perception is probably at the lowest
36:10
Speaker 3: point it's been in three plus years as the president
36:13
Speaker 3: of baseball operations. That speaks to some big misses. That
36:17
Speaker 3: speaks to, for whatever reason, he's never quite connected on
36:24
Speaker 3: a personal level with fans. You know, whatever it may be,
36:30
Speaker 3: I don't know It's really interesting because big picture, he's
36:33
Speaker 3: done a great job, probably has supreme job security. Stock's
36:39
Speaker 3: been up if you look at like a three year
36:41
Speaker 3: rolling stock report, but the last month or so the
36:46
Speaker 3: deadline was underwhelming. And then you look at a lot
36:49
Speaker 3: of the moves made at the major league level this
36:51
Speaker 3: season haven't really worked out. The pitching track record as
36:54
Speaker 3: a whole, not as good as we were talking about
36:58
Speaker 3: it in February. So, yeah, the stocks down. Sometimes I
37:03
Speaker 3: wonder like is that actually fair? And it's like, well,
37:05
Speaker 3: you've done a lot of good things, built a really
37:07
Speaker 3: good infrastructure. Like I always say, that creates expectations, and
37:11
Speaker 3: expectations are what gets you in trouble. That's kind of
37:14
Speaker 3: where we're at Scott Hairs right now.
37:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that farm system, Matt. I don't know if
37:19
Speaker 1: anybody's noticed Kevin McGonagall and Max Clark kind of coming
37:24
Speaker 1: into their own a little bit. And McGonagall is three
37:27
Speaker 1: or four days away from turning twenty one years old,
37:31
Speaker 1: and he's got people clamoring I think that's a good
37:33
Speaker 1: way to put it, clamoring for him to get called
37:36
Speaker 1: up when.
37:37
Speaker 3: Ruin, Yeah, to get off Twitter. I don't think Kevin
37:39
Speaker 3: mcgonagall's coming to the major leagues. Come on.
37:44
Speaker 2: But it is fun and he's definitely a stock up.
37:46
Speaker 1: I mean, I just somebody showed me a card, like,
37:49
Speaker 1: you know, don't follow the Tiger's unfollowed prospects. It was assigned,
37:52
Speaker 1: you know, one of those Bowman chromes, you know that
37:55
Speaker 1: you could probably find on arena club.
37:57
Speaker 2: And he's like, who is this?
37:59
Speaker 1: And I was like, probably the best hitting prospect in baseball.
38:02
Speaker 1: And I was looking at, you know, showing some numbers.
38:05
Speaker 1: I was like, I would hang on.
38:07
Speaker 2: To this if I were you.
38:09
Speaker 3: There's not much probably about it. Man, the kid can hit.
38:14
Speaker 2: Last one. A couple names here. What about Sawyer?
38:17
Speaker 1: Gibson Long It's a differ one. It's a tough one
38:19
Speaker 1: with his injuries.
38:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just gonna have to hold here because he's
38:24
Speaker 3: been hurt, came off the al, had a great outing,
38:27
Speaker 3: then got optioned because the Tigers won another lefty against
38:30
Speaker 3: the Twins. So like, not really enough of a sample
38:33
Speaker 3: to draw much of a conclusion. I guess, if you
38:35
Speaker 3: want to go bigger picture, the stocks maybe a little
38:38
Speaker 3: down because there were some pretty high hopes for Sawyer
38:41
Speaker 3: once he got healthy this year. It just hasn't been
38:45
Speaker 3: that smooth, all right.
38:46
Speaker 2: Last one the Tigers, just the Tigers.
38:50
Speaker 3: Now that's the hardest one. That's even harder than the
38:52
Speaker 3: Scott Harrits one of me because it's like the stocks
38:55
Speaker 3: should be through the roof, and yet it feels kind
38:57
Speaker 3: of down because they set really high expectations for themselves,
39:01
Speaker 3: but by having an incredible May and June. So I
39:07
Speaker 3: don't know what the answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And even
39:11
Speaker 3: in the past week or so it has always been
39:13
Speaker 3: pretty but the stock's ticking back up. So there's some
39:17
Speaker 3: up and downs in this one.
39:19
Speaker 2: Yeah for sure.
39:20
Speaker 1: And you know, long season, tough sport, and as we
39:23
Speaker 1: say all the time.
39:24
Speaker 2: So that's our stock report for the Tigers.
39:28
Speaker 1: I thought that was actually really fun discussion because again,
39:30
Speaker 1: like because part of it is just like, you know,
39:33
Speaker 1: how long do you do the sample size to like
39:36
Speaker 1: how you feel about a guy, whether he's training up,
39:38
Speaker 1: turning down and all that stuff, and you can kind
39:41
Speaker 1: of do it in whatever fashion you want, and that's.
39:43
Speaker 2: What made this really fun. So I was glad we
39:45
Speaker 2: did that. Anything else, Cody before.
39:47
Speaker 3: We jet out, No, I think that's it for now,
39:50
Speaker 3: all right, Well.
39:51
Speaker 1: Be sure everybody to follow us on YouTube and Instagram
39:54
Speaker 1: and TikTok and Apple and Spotify and wherever you listen
39:57
Speaker 1: to your podcast and go to Tiger Territory where you
40:01
Speaker 1: can get one of these a Tiger Territory T shirt.
40:05
Speaker 1: And there's hats, there's mugs, there's backpacks. I mean, you
40:09
Speaker 1: can rep Tig your territory in a variety of fashions.
40:12
Speaker 1: And we appreciate everybody for the liking, subscribing, leaving us
40:17
Speaker 1: five star reviews, all that stuff. We couldn't do this
40:19
Speaker 1: without you, so thank you very much. Once again, so
40:21
Speaker 1: for Cody Stavenhagen, I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody have great tame