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Is Troy Melton Untouchable? Should The Tigers Upgrade Their Outfield? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network, a Detroit Tiger's podcast. I am
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: curiously with me as always a man who just recently
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: turned down the Penn State head football coaching position to
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: do this podcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I feel like grateful for that. He is, Cody Savinhagen.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: How you doing, believe it or not. I think I
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: would take that job just for the buyout when I
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: inevitably get fired, But I guess not everyone agrees.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, it's it's hard sledding over there
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: in state college.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: So anyway, let let let's kind of dive in. Cody.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: We're on the cusp of winter meetings, and we know
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lot a lot of me on
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the bone when and things are gonna happen that happens
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: every year. We know this, so we're we're still kind
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: of you know, right there. We're almost there, Cody, We're
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: almost there. But there are a couple of things that
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: we can discuss that have happened since last we've spoken.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: One of them is that Ryan Helsley. We know he
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: agreed to a contract with the Baltimore Orioles and he
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: actually kind of spoke because we speculated. It's like, well,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: why did he not go with the Tigers? He not
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: agree with the plan, blah blah blah.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Well he put it out.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: There for us so we don't have to speculate. So again,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: credit to Ryan for being really transparent. I appreciate it.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: And and I'm going to read the quote right now here, Cody.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: This was at his introductory press conference. Detroit was in
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: on me heavy, starting for starting. Excuse me, Detroit was
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: in on me heavy for starting. I weighed the options
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: in the risk and they didn't seem the lineup with
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: where I was at in my career and what we
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: were really looking at as a team with Wiserman being
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: his agency. So in regards to the Orioles, you know,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: we had some good discussions. They didn't lay out a
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: full detailed plan in our meeting before I signed, but
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: they had some ideas and they had the resource helped
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: me get back to where I want to be and
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: help me get to the feel on my fastball and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: maybe add a pitch or two or refine something. So
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: it seems like looking at those words, Cody, that the
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Tigers put on maybe full court press is a little
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: uh is a little strong, but he did. He was
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: the word heavy, so, you know, like I believe, and
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: when he says, the Tigers tried here, they tried with infrastructure,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: they tried with what I assume we're dollars and cents.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: But he just ultimately he just did not want to
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: do it. And you can't fault him for that, and
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: you can't fault the Tigers here for this doesn't feel.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Like a missing out aspect, I guess is what I'm
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: getting that here.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I still think it's unfortunate Halsley
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: didn't sign. I think it's interesting he said it wasn't
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: worth the risk. There is some degree of risk making
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: a transition like that, but I think his future earning
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: potential would be greater if he were able to successfully
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: become a starter, and again if it didn't work in Detroit.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: I believe part of the plan was, Okay, we'll send
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: you back to the bullpen. Now, it does sound like
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: he's kind of getting handed a ninth inning job in
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: Baltimore and probably more of a traditional ninh ening role
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: than anyone would ever have in Detroit, So maybe that
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: was part of it. He is sticking with the familiarity
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: of what he's always done. But as we talked about
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: at link last week, it puts the Tigers in an
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: interesting position. From Bravaldez is out there, Ranger Swarez is
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: out there, two pretty good lefties you could pay up for.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: But if you don't get one of those two, where
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: are you turning? Where are you pivoting? Michael King? He's
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: the name the Tigers have been linked to the most.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: There is some legit interest there a lot of teams
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: like Michael King because he has really good stuff and
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: if you don't get him, then you're you're shooting toward
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: that middle part of the market, which I think can
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: be pretty dangerous. We'll see what kind of year Hellsley has.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: Maybe the Tigers will get someone who will end up better.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: But as it stands, you know, I just think it's
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: unfortunate that this didn't come together. It was a good
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: idea from the Tigers and other teams who were thinking
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: along those lines.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would imagine that this is not probably
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: one the first and it won't be the last kind
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: of guy that they you know, at least internally, and
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: even get gets to the point of making that full
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: court press to try to do this, because again, this
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: is a this is a front office that is not
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: afraid to think outside the box for better or for worse.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: So some in the industry are pointing toward Brad Keller
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: as another reliever who convert to starting. Had a really
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: nice year with the Cubs last year. Last offseason, the
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: Pikers had had some level of interest in Michael Soroka,
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: who had somewhat been a swingman and converted converted to starting.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: Did not have a very good year, but he could
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: be another name to watch if you're looking for something
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: like that, be really interested to see if they have
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: another creative option up their sleeves as opposed to the
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: cash money option that it might take to get another
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: guy of this caliber.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I also like what you mentioned there about
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: King and it's like, you know that that top of
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: the market. I just do, I really do feel like
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: that's gonna that's gonna slide down fast and you're gonna
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: eat There's We've talked about this before, but there's a
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: very real possibility that you're, you know, h at the
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: dance looking for a date. You know, because like everyone
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: was asked pretty quickly, you know, so like I do
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: kind of have I have a little bit of anxiety
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: about that, you know, as we get into winter meetings.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: But I did want to make note of this to
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Cody because sometimes like this is something we know, but
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: we don't always kind of get it spoken that frankly,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: so I like to kind of like emphasize it a
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: little bit. And in the quote from from Helsley, you
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: know what we were looking at for as a team
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: with Wasserman, so like sometimes it's worth it's something like
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: sometimes it's worth remembering. But these guys, like they're not
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: just agents that like negotiate contracts. And we talked about
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: this with Trek Schouoble a little bit last year in
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: his relationship to to boris Coe, which is like these
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: these agencies kind of operate as their own baseball information
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: systems and then they dick and I almost say dictate,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: but they steer in, you know, as a part of
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: their service for their clients, they steer in a direction
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: that there it's like their internal numbers match with the
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: teams you know, are saying and blah blah blah. It's
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: not just like all right, we offer you this many
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: years and this may million dollars. Actually, here's our counter offer.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: We want this many years, this man million dollars. It's
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: a lot more complex with that, and so the fact
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: that he mentioned that it was like another light bulb
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: moments like, oh yeah, duh, but we don't like talking
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: those terms as much.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely worth pointing out. Something not a lot of
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: people probably realize is agencies, particularly the big ones, have
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: very robust They have their own scouting departments, they have
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: their own analytics departments. They are looking at very similar things.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Teams are to make these markets happen, to help develop
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: their players and to ultimately play matchmaker in free agency.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: So maybe that played a role here. Ryan Helsley's agent
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: is Nick Channick of Wasserman. That happens to be the
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: same agent as one Javier Baiaz. So there's a lot
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: of familiarity with the Tigers and Scott Harris and aj
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Hinch and what they are all about. This is an
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: agent they know and he knows them well. I don't
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: think that means anything negative about the Tigers or the relationship,
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: But as Healthy said, sounds like they were looking for
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: something different. Sounds like they were most comfortable with him
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: being a closer.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, sir fighting off some spam calls right now?
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Don't they know him recording a podcast anyway? Uh, let's uh,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: let's let's pivot to what what we talked about last week,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Cody we I gave some trade ideas for uh, for
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: acquiring Katel Marte and and we our social media team
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: put out a video of one of my proposals. And
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: and I gotta say, and I mean this as like
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: a compliment. It was not popular, Like, uh, it was
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: not popular. I'm just gonna kind of read some some comments. Uh,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: not pumped about this when second Base is in a
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: position to need rather keep these guys for other options
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: as from Ron Uh from Chelsea, there's like eight d's
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: in there.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Uh.
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  Speaker 1: Anyone trading for Melton for anyone trading Melton for a
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: position like that is out of their freaking minds.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: So there you go. No thanks, uh pitching his area.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Need don't want to give up a picture, don't need Uh.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I don't even want to say this because I don't
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true. But you know, accusations
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: personally about Marte as a as as it comes to
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: being a ballplayer. A couple bugs bunny gifts where he's
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: like yelling no, you know, let's see a couple of
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: people did it. Somebody said this was mean. Nobody wants Max.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I like Max. I don't.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I don't want to disparage Max like that friend of
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: the podcast. I put him in there because I value
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: him as a as a prospect. Every team is asking
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: for Melton, and Harris ain't giving him up. We should
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: be prepared for another mediocre offseason. I wouldn't give up
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: on Melton either. This is from misunderstood masterminds.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: So and.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Some some people wanted to get rid of Green instead
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: of instead of like Colt Keith, you know. But yeah, Basically,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: the consensus I got from the comments Cody is that
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the fan base is very high on Troy Melton. And
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: again I want to emphasize I made him sort of
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: the centerpiece of the trade to make it attractive, not
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: because I don't think Melton is good, right, And I.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't claim to be a Melton truther. That's that's a
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: you thing.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: That's that's the the guys at the Tigers minor league report. Also,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Friends of the podcast have been on for years so like,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: this is not like, oh yeah, let's get rid of Meltain.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: But again, you gotta give value to get value.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: But I did find that interesting.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: It's almost like a mail bag where you see where
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: the fans minds are at the comments. You can tell
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Melton you might be in the running for Tiger of
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the Year. Like like, everybody loves him and I like
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: him too.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I like him too.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: I like him too. I wouldn't move him unless it were,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: you know, something, some sort of crazy deal. But to
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: play Devil's advocate, I guess with myself, is it possible
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: that we all fell too in love with Troy Milton?
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: Based on a small sample in the Major leagues, Milton
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: had a two seven six ERA in forty five and
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: two thirds innings. That's pretty good. You look at some
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: of his underlying stuff stuff plus one oh seven. It
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: indicates he could be an all star level pitcher. But again,
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: two seven six CR, his XCRA three point six y one,
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: his FIP four point six to oh, his ex fip
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: four point five to three. He only struck out about
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: seven batters per nine in the Major leagues, struggled to
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: miss bats against against right handed batters. It was a
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: little bit of a problem the one ninety eight babbit
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: against him. So as good as he was, there was
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: reason to believe luck was on Troy Milton's side and
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: his first taste of the majors, And we did talk
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: a lot about his usage going from a relief to
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: starting and being jerked around a little bit. Next year
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: is going to be different for him. I think he
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: has the arm talent and the type of robust arsenal
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: that he could be really good. But if you wanted
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: to knock Troy Melton there, it's not that hard to
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: find a few reasons.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, dude, sometimes, like I take general macro trends
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: like seriously and I try to apply them to the
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: to the to the micro situation. And the list of
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: young pitchers who show promise that you could have gotten
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: some robust position player for like in theoretical trades or
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: trades that you know made it to the fifteen yard
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: line is long, right, And there's a recent example of that,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, reportedly with the Tigers within the
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: past like ten years, right, and you know involves a
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: guy that you know they're connected to right now in
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: for agency. So I'm just saying like it's a little
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: bit of a cautionary tale. But again, there that would
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: be a former reference yer.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: And former had won a Rookie of the Year, he
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: had achieved a high level of success. Whereas it is
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: easy to fall in love with young pictures. I mean,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: five years ago, if someone would have tried to trade
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: for Casey Miz, it would have been an instant hang
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: up the phone. Casey mis has been perfectly adequate, you know.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I see your point here. It's easy to
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: fall in love with young pictures and you don't always
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: know exactly what they are going to end up being.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say this.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I believe in the I mean, obviously I believe in
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the stuff of Melton, like that's a parent. But like
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: when I was at that Cleveland series, Uh, you know,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: he gets shell acted and then the next day I'm like,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I want to see what his body language is, you know,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: like how how is how is he? And you you
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: could not tell? You know that he in his postseason debut,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: like he got tagged, you know what I mean, And
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: I thought I was actually really pressed by that, just
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: like not like you know, he's just walking from the
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: dugout to the bullpen and just like you know, like
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: his demeanor and all that stuff. So I came away
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: really impressed with how he handles that, and that is
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: an asset in his favor in my mind, that he's
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: going to be able to handle, you know what will
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: be young struggles being a first time full time starter
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: in the major leagues, as he's a slider right now.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: So I just want making out of that. I like
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Moultain just for.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: I do as well. I'm not sure there's a lot
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: more to say on it. I doubt he's getting traded for.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: To tell Martay, all.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Right, it is time for our unsponsored, so far contractually
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: obligated Trek Scoogal Update of the week, and this comes
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: from our friends at PTI, Michael Wilbon, Tony Kornheiser. There's
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: a video that is circulating on ESPN Socials where it
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: says the Tigers have to listen to trade offers for
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Tark Schoogle and that is your update. You're actually obligated
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: update on the Tark Schooble situation.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I tend to agree.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: I guess you have PTI for content. No, you you
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: don't have to listen. You could say no, we're not
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: going to listen, and so I do. For as much
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: as it doesn't seem like there's any steam for Ark
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Schoogle actually being traded, I come back to what I've
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: said about this all along is that should the Tigers
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: be picking a lane, it seems like they're closer toward
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: keeping them than they are trading him. But listening to
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: offers all that and if he's gonna stick around so
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: far keywords, so far, it doesn't seem like there's an
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: indication that the Tigers are approaching this off season any
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: differently than they have previous off seasons under Scott Harris.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: We have no idea what they're doing. On the position
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: players side. There's been very little chatter. Maybe they could
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: go after a big name, but it doesn't seem like
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: they are helping when making that happen. And pitching wise, again,
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: there's no been no tangible connections to them at the
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: top of the market for a bona fide number two
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: like a Valdez or a Sorez. It seems like they're
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: playing the middle ground a little bit, which does worry me.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: So on that's funny.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: It's a great set up here because ESPN put out
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: their like pre Winter Meetings rankings, and the Tigers are
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: about where you expect. They had them number number ten
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: and they're fifty seven percent to make the playoffs four
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: point two percent obviously this is meanless, but four point
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: two percent to win the World Series. But this is
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: from Bradford Doolittle, who basically just copy what you said
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: right there. Here's what the Tigers should do this offseason.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: That's like the two do section. First, the Tigers need
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: to not trade Tech Google. That's easy enough to do
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: him to a fat extension would also be nice. Otherwise,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: what are we doing here?
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: So there you go. That's a pickle lane. That's a
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: that's a pickle lane.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: This a couple of sentences right there, Cody.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Uh. And then I will I will mention you know,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: they talked, you know, Tiger. He mentions that the Tigers
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: are going to rely on young hitters to continue to progress.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: We know that.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: But in terms of adding somebody to the roster, he
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: throws out the name Isaiah Kiner Phileifa. Uh, excuse me,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Isaiah Kiner Phileifa. And I did a little research on that.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: I can't say I see a large amount of merit
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: for bringing in I kfu for this team right now.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: That's like my initial gut. He does not strike out.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: That's a good trait we have. If you're watching on YouTube,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: we have his his fangrass page up and including with
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: projections if you're interested in those.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: But in a zero point five war player, Karen.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Not really like no offense, bro, but like like that
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: doesn't like that's like the definition of not moving the needle,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: is it?
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Not so?
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: And then you're like, Okay, he's a right handed bat.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: He's a veteran, Like, all right, what's he do against
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: left handed pitching? Well, let's just go to last season.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I don't look through career arcs for guys that have
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: been in the in the league as long as he has.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Last season against left handed pitching, he had a five
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: thirty six ohps, I gets right in pitching his six
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: sixty eight. So, I mean, he's a veteran and he
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: can play shortstop. But the Tigers have a veteran who
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: can play short stop.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: His name is Hobby Bias. And I certainly would have
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: higher you know.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I guess you would say like higher volatility, but the
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: highs are higher, you know.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: So it.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: It doesn't really spark me as something like, oh okay,
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: that seems like a shrewd move bringing in IKF.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: But yeah, and I'm actually glad Bradford Doolittle threw this
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: out just because I've been kind of trying to think
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: of if they don't get Bregman or Bashett and they're
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: not going to trade away a member of their core,
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: is there any move that makes sense? Is there a
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: lesser move to bolster the roster a little bit. Let's
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: say they don't like Hassong Kim, they don't trust his arm,
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: anything like that. And I've had a hard time coming
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: up with names. Kind of like I've talked about, maybe
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: we should be looking more at shortstop. All kind of
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: left is a shortstop plays above average defense there, But yeah,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: the bat is pretty much non existent. Career high WRC
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: plus's ninety three. That's still seven percent below league average.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: He does make contact, but he doesn't walk at all,
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: a three percent clip the last two years, and there's
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: no power. Hovey Baia's King a bad version of Hovey
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Baias can give you pre similar offensive production. The defense
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: actually doesn't grade out quite as well, but the eye
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: test with hobby is still certainly very good at shortstop,
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: you'd be I don't know what in the world the
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: upside of a player like Isaiah kinder Filefa is, especially
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: when you have a bunch of infield prospects on the way.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: I would rather have Kevin mcgonag will play shortstop all year,
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: every day, I think, than Isaiah kinder FILEFFA.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hard for me to disagree with you there.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of that, you know, I was looking at
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Jeff passions and Kylie contributed to this too, like they're
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: sort of like offseason prime or trade candidate like primer thing.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: And obviously school was on there.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: But there's a lot of outfielders that fit this category,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: and almost every outfielder that was in the top twelve
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: or whatever like, and they're not saying sources say, they're
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: just saying best fits. So it's independent of any of
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: anything that you know, people, they're not like reporting interest
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: or anything.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: So I just want to make that clear.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: But almost every out there in there, from the Bustons
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: to the Durans, like you know, gets mentioned with with
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: the Tigers as a you know, best fit team. So
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: we agree that there's like crowd crowdedness in the infield,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: and we don't talk about the outfield as much because
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: they're all young and you know, kind of guys at
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: least some part of it, you like kind of are
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: banking on to kind of lead your team a little bit.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: But I guess I can't rule it out, like bringing
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: in an outfield there, I can't say is like a
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: bad idea, right because you you had like you don't
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: know what you're gonna do with Parker Meadows. I'm not
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: really sure what water finding its level is for Riley Green.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: And then how much can you trust the health and
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the defense.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Of a care carpenter. So like, in a way, it does.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Make kind of sense to attack the outfield as a
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: as a point of improving your team unorthodoxily, I guess,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: in somewhat of a way.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: But does that like does that like make any sense
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: to you?
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Do you see, like as something that like the Tigers
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: could do is like target like an outfield name via
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: trade or you know, even free agency.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I guess we can't rule a free agency either.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Since you said unworthodoxically, I'll use a double negative. It
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: doesn't not make sense, like if you could upgrade your outfield.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Why why not? The problem is it doesn't leap out
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: at you as their biggest need. Riley Green, love him
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: or hate him, pretty talented young player in left field.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: Carry Carpenter imperfect as he is pretty good player in
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: right field with Winsel Perez who does a lot of
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: good things. Parker meadows flat as he is a lot
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: of upside there. Matt Vierling's going to be back this year.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: You have a pretty solid outfield as it stands, So
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: what is a clear upgrade and who's going to play
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: less as a result. I would almost think it would
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: have to mean somehow trading a Riley Green or a
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Carry Carpenter, which I don't really see happening. If you
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: were going to bring in some sort of upgrade, centerfield
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: does loom as the one position where I could I
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: could be talked into it, and we've talked about Jan
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Duran before, and I think that could make some sense.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: I just don't know what the price tag is or
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: what it would take to exactly, so not counting on
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: that happening either. But I think centerfield is somewhat of
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: a need. I just think there's only a select few
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: center fielders I would rather have than just rolling the
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: dice on Parker Meadows with some hobby bias and Matt
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: Vierling to back it up. I don't think the Tigers
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: are gonna pay Kyle Tucker, but if they wanted to,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: would they be better for it? At least next year
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: they would, So that's kind of that's kind of the argument.
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: It's kind of a team building philosophical view. Sure, they
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: could be better in the outfield, but it doesn't seem
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: like the way Scott Harrison company aim to build this
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: roster is by making something that's good going out proactively
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: spending or giving away assets to make it better. They'd
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: rather let these guys continue to develop.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: There's one name that you didn't mention in there that
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: you know, I guess kind of figures to be somewhat
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: of a factor and certainly a factor in any decision
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: making that would be involved with trading for an outfielder,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: specifically and up the middle outfielder.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: I'd be Max.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: Clark's he's to write in a couple of years if
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: you have another plus innerfielder or vice versa. But that's
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: part of the equation.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, And I think.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: With the McGonagall hype, like like it's funny, like the
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: Clark hype is kind of trailing, it's I mean, clearly
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: trailing the McGonagall hype. But I guarantee you comes spring training,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: like Clark's gonna steal some games in terms of like
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: attention and like you know, he's gonna do some stuff
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: and it's gonna be like, oh man, you know, should
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: they blah blah blah like and I don't. I think
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: we're aligned on this. I don't think we anticipate him
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: being like a serious candidate to like break camp with uh,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: with the Tigers, you know, for many reasons and the
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: same I love them the same as McGonagall. But McGonagall
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: seems to have a cleaner path to play time, at
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: least initially. But we'll see. I guess you can. You
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: can't rule anything out. You cannot rule anything out.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: All right, Let's uh, let's let's wrap up with this. Cody.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: You had an article that published in The Athletic that's
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: a great primer for what we're about to experience as
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: baseball fans and observers, and that's it tallied.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Some bad contracts.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: So I'm kind of curious you listed them worse contracts
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: in Baseball. You had some honorable mentions in there. Some
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: of them are you know, going down memory lane with
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: remember when.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: You wanted that guy? You know as a fan.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: So it's a two part of question number one, like,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: you know, how'd you kind of siphon all this out
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: with with the process? And then two, how much did
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Scott Harris pay you to write a cautionary tale for
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: giving out expensive and multi year contracts to free agents?
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: I received zero dollars for this, and that certainly was
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: not the goal, but it was to point out, hey,
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: there are a lot of bad contracts out there, and
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: it's just kind of fun to rank them. Now there
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: are also some good contracts out there. Sometimes these things
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: hit where you get right. I think, you know, there
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: was a time when I was like, yeah, I don't
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: know if I'd sign any player for longer than seven years.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: It's because so many of those deals end up on
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: that list, and there are becoming I think fewer of
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: those when you've seen deals for Micgal Cabrera and Albert
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Pujols age so poorly. But sometimes that's what it takes,
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: the extra years to get players. I'm all for players
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: getting what they worth. If you could sign everyone to
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: five year deals at a super high AAV. Maybe that
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: would be the solution, but then someone's always going to
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: come in and say, well, hey, I really want this player,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: so we're going to tackle on the extra years give
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: this guy's security. That's just how the economics of baseball work.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: And I don't even think that part of it is
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: messed up. Despite baseball baseball's other problems, it's just that, Hey,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: the sport's unpredictable. Just like you don't always know how
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: prospects are going to develop, you don't always know how
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: players in their prime are going to age. Some played
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: a very high level for a long time, and some
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: flame out very quickly. Some there are always red flags,
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: and some injuries just happen. Like with Mike Trout, you know,
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: just got banged up a little bit. Just isn't quite
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: the same. He's still more productive, I think last year
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: than people realize. But he's very high on the worst
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Contracts ranking. You guys can check that out on the
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Athletic We only got one tiger on there. It's Hobby Bias.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: He actually went up. The ranking trended positively after a
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: decent year. That made his contract somewhat salvageable. So I
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: think he was ranked seventh on the final list.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and again like it's you look at the dollars
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: and then you, you know, look at the whole you know,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: the entire the entirety of the contract, and you realize
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: how much you've had to change your opinion about guys
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: like over the years just because of like you know what,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: what has ended up ended up happening. And we've certainly
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: had to do the hobby reset on what's reasonable expectations
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: for him multiple times. And that's what may twenty twenty
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: five so remarkable in a way.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: So, uh, it's it's a tough game.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: One thing I did learn from that here, and talking
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: about the dangers of the middle of the market, I
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: think teams are becoming a little bit less likely to
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: just throw out eight, nine, ten year deals. You've got
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: to be really good to get that type of deal.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: But it seems like there's been a lot of teams
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: and maybe because of the executives who are afraid to
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: make those deals instead of doing that some of the
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I'm not even talking about Scott here. Scott Hare so
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: far likes his one year deals. Maybe with a little
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: player option. But a lot of teams go a tier
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: down in free agency and you signed the Jack Peterson
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: or the Luis Severino or In the last couple of years,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: there have been some two or three year deals with
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: a player in his thirties and it's been underwater from
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: day one that player has underperformed. There are a lot
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: of those out there in just the last couple of years,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: and so that made this year's list pretty hard. I
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: kind of expanded the honorable mention section because there were
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: so many three for forty five two for forty deals
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: you know, that are just really bad right now, And
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: maybe that could always change if a guy has a
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: good season. But I think that's a fear. When you're
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: shopping in the middle of the market, you can subject
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: yourself to contracts like that, just like if you're shopping
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: at the top of the market, it can go against you.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: A lesson there is don't get more expensive by being cheap, ye.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Know, I think I think that's a that's honestly a
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: conclusion I had from doing this. Would you rather have
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: four good years of a guy in six years on
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: the back end that are really ugly, or would you
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: rather sign two guys and neither of them are that good.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Like I, neither one of those is great. But I
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: think that's a factor that maybe some of these executives
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: coming in who are do tend to be more risk
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: adverse I should look at and consider the middle of
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: the market is a dangerous place.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: That's also why teams like homegrown players and the waiver
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: wire and trying to optimize guys. This seems to be
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: a little bit more where the Tigers have been in
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: recent years. I know they tried hard for pregnant and
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: stuff last year, but in terms of track record, that's
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: a little bit more where they lie. And so I
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: guess that's kind of trying to avoid both ends of
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: the those things. And then the risk there is like well,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: are you ever going to go? Are you ever going
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: to get elite talent? How do you know? So there's
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: not one right way to do it. That's one of
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: the beautiful things about this game. There are teams that
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: have been built and succeeded in wildly different fashions in
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: different markets. It's just unpredictable enough to keep everyone on
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: their toes.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Yep, and we'll find out a lot more here. In
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: the next week with Winter meetings, Cody will be there.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: We will be having podcasts obviously during the week to
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: react to everything that is going on, all the updates,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: and we might actually get a signer in a two
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: We'll see, we shall see. But you can follow along
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: at Cody Stapenhagen. I am at Kieran Underscore sectly pot
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: page at Tiger Territory Underscore YouTube, Instagram, follow, like, subscribe.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: We appreciate everybody for doing so. Go to Tiger Territory
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: shop dot com for all your Tiger Territory merch needs.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: So for Cody Stapenhagen, I'm kiers Sekley or we have
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: right there.