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Emergency Pod: Is It All Over for Bitcoin? · Merryn Talks Money

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to a bonus episode of Merin Talks Money, the
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Speaker 2: podcast in which people who know the markets explain the markets.
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Speaker 2: I am mere in Sunset Web. I am just back
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Speaker 2: from a long trip home from Japan with me today,
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Speaker 2: of course, is author of the award winning Money Distilled newsletter,
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Speaker 2: John step Back Hi John, Hi, Mel John. I've been
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Speaker 2: away for literally a couple of days, and everything seems
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Speaker 2: to have gone completely nuts while I've been away.
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Speaker 3: A bitcoin you should never never leave the country. It's
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Speaker 3: usually just go to ports without you.
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Speaker 2: It's usually when you go away that the market crishes
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Speaker 2: one way or another. We've had this joke before you
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Speaker 2: go on holiday to Portugal, come back, everything fall and
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Speaker 2: twenty percent. But this time bitcoin really really has come
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Speaker 2: off a lot. So it's down quite a lot in
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Speaker 2: the last couple of days. It's down to twenty five
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Speaker 2: percent year to date, forty percent of six months, and
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Speaker 2: close to fifty percent off the high it hit last
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Speaker 2: year one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. We went
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Speaker 2: down to sixty thousand dollars at some point, and I
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Speaker 2: think as we speak it's bounced quite a lot back
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Speaker 2: up to the mid sixties. But this is not what
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Speaker 2: people expected. And I think one thing we can say
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Speaker 2: for absolutely sure at this point that bitcoin is not
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Speaker 2: quite the same thing as gold. Am I ride around
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Speaker 2: my absolutely right?
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Speaker 3: Oh, I think that's fear. That's definitely fear.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: Well, it's what's interesting is Bitcoin doesn't seem to have
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Speaker 3: participated and they can a slightly manic run up that
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Speaker 3: someone gold had, but it does seem to be participating
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Speaker 3: in the very mini rundown that they've been harving. So
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Speaker 3: I'm curious sis to why that is so.
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Speaker 2: Am I? And it seems really that it's not so
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Speaker 2: much that is moving around the place with gold, but
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Speaker 2: it's moving around the place with software, because it kind
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Speaker 2: of is software anyway. As you and I know nothing
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Speaker 2: about these things and are inbstantly permanently wrong on bitcoin,
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Speaker 2: we've actually invited someone on who does know something about
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Speaker 2: bitcoin and how it all works. We've got on Charlie
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Speaker 2: Morris's on the line to try and help us make
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Speaker 2: sense of all this. He is the founder and chairman
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Speaker 2: of investment research from bite Tree, and he has been
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Speaker 2: on with us a couple of times before, so regular
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Speaker 2: sins will note him. Well, Charlie, welcome to Marrin Talks Money.
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Speaker 2: Thanks for the imitation, Right, Charlie, what's going on?
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Speaker 4: Do you want to talk about bitcoin? I mean, yes,
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Speaker 4: I do the best performing essay in the history of
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Speaker 4: the world. Let's start the Yes. You know, it comes
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Speaker 4: to market at a very low market gap that's been
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Speaker 4: I think it was around one hundred and fifty thousand
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Speaker 4: dollars gap in twenty ten when it started trading about
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Speaker 4: six cents. We can on ways since then, and we
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Speaker 4: have these things called cycles. It goes a lot, then
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Speaker 4: he goes down a lot, and we've just in the
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Speaker 4: last twenty four hours or in baut the last a
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Speaker 4: few days, experienced one of the down and loss.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so why does it go down a lot? I
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Speaker 2: mean we're talking a lot. And there'll be a lot
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Speaker 2: of people out there who caught this wave up, having
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Speaker 2: missed previous waves up. They'll have ridden it up to
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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty one hundred and twenty five. Some
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Speaker 2: people will have bought it up there. I mean, it
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Speaker 2: goes not alone here. People have done this with gold
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Speaker 2: and silver as well. So given that it's not moving
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Speaker 2: with gold and silver. It's not the same asset. And
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Speaker 2: this is one of the things we've talked about with
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Speaker 2: you a lot, that it is a very different type
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Speaker 2: of asset. What is it that is driving this collapse?
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Speaker 4: So they're likely things. I mean, I've always said that,
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Speaker 4: you know, gold's a sort of a macro assets and
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Speaker 4: it's a real world asset, and bitcoin it's a digital
3:36
Speaker 4: world asset. I've always had high correlation with tech. I
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Speaker 4: used to highlight that with social media stocks, because if
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Speaker 4: you think about it, you're sharing pictures of cats and
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Speaker 4: funny jokes on the Internet and social media. It's got
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Speaker 4: that similar to exchanging value. I mean, after all, its
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Speaker 4: Internet activity, and Bitcoin's always loved the idea of more
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Speaker 4: activity and the more people in the network for engaging
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Speaker 4: in this space at the higher the price would go.
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Speaker 4: And I guess the Internet's kind of topped out, you know,
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Speaker 4: last October. I think there's a pretty strong view that,
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Speaker 4: actually I said it at the Money Week conference in
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Speaker 4: October that the bitcoin at the nastack had beat and
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Speaker 4: it does look increasingly like that. And bitcoin really is
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Speaker 4: the sort of next Nastak on steroids, a bit like
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Speaker 4: what silver is to gold. So I think that's a
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Speaker 4: very simple explanation of where we are. And let's strong there.
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Speaker 4: There's so many ways we can go here.
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Speaker 3: Which way do you want to go?
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Speaker 4: Well for your cycle content? You know?
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Speaker 3: Regulation, I think quantum's actually interesting because that cost to
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Speaker 3: me there because this thing where people are worried about
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Speaker 3: the rise of quantum computing and the quantum computing might
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Speaker 3: somehow destroy or render worthless the cryptography that protects bitcoin
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Speaker 3: and other cryptocurncies. I mean, how I kid it is
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Speaker 3: that because I've had different things about quantum and whether
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Speaker 3: that's actually correct or not.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, well it looks flirstly disclosed. I'm not a computer
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Speaker 4: science expert, but I do try to follow these things.
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Speaker 4: And the thing about quantum is you've got very very
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Speaker 4: powerful computing and I guess that the threat is that
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Speaker 4: if you could guess private keys at are sufficiently high rate,
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Speaker 4: then you'll be able to break into the system. Now,
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Speaker 4: the security has been increased in the over the years,
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Speaker 4: and the simple way to make your system quantum proof
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Speaker 4: is to is to the tech. You's forgive me, but
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Speaker 4: I'm going to put this into simple terms, is to
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Speaker 4: increase the length of the private key. So if your
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Speaker 4: password become longer and longer and longer. Then you need,
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Speaker 4: you know, quantum squared next to break the system. Now,
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Speaker 4: you know, how quickly do we get quantum? You know,
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Speaker 4: some people say it's imminent, other people say it's years away,
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Speaker 4: some people it's theoretical. But the bottom line is about
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Speaker 4: one quarter of our bitcoin wallets are not resistance to
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Speaker 4: what to what is called the P two p K,
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Speaker 4: which is basically the fret. So it's Atoshi's original coins.
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Speaker 4: So no one's ever seen the move mind in two
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Speaker 4: thousand and nine and ten, basically one and a half
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Speaker 4: billion bitcoin or thereabouts in comparison to you know, approximately
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Speaker 4: twenty million in Circnnection just under and you know they
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Speaker 4: would be under threat, and some other coins which have
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Speaker 4: got all wallets. But you know Sailor and his results
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Speaker 4: about Michael Saylor, the head of marketing for the Bitcoin
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Speaker 4: as I always say, and the cena of micro strategy strategy,
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Speaker 4: and he basically is now coming full on board with this. Yeah,
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Speaker 4: there's been a couple of upgrades to the bitcoin protocol
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Speaker 4: over the years. There was the tap route and there
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Speaker 4: was a Sedgewick, and these were things that the core developers,
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Speaker 4: you know, judged by the miners, can be implemented to
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Speaker 4: upgrade the network.
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Speaker 2: And what can I just go back? Sorry when you
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Speaker 2: say Michael Sailure is now fully on board with this,
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Speaker 2: what do you mean with changing the security around bitcoints?
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Speaker 4: Would he announce his results last night that he's going
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Speaker 4: to lead a leader charged to do this. And basically,
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Speaker 4: you know, if you've got an uppower and wait in
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Speaker 4: the system, and you convince the month to make the upgrade,
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Speaker 4: and the upgrade will happen. It's happened twice before, and
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Speaker 4: so I'm not worried about that. And I think to
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Speaker 4: put it into economic terms, when the price was one
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Speaker 4: hundred and twenty thousand, no one cared about content. They
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Speaker 4: went quantum Schmont. But now the price is crash, Everyone's like,
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Speaker 4: oh dear, we better deal with concept. So they brought
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Speaker 4: it to a head. You know, a crisis is an
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Speaker 4: opportunity and all that, and so the price has come down.
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Speaker 4: Now quantum is front of the agenda. The upgrades to
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Speaker 4: the system will happen in the coming months, possibly a
7:47
Speaker 4: year or two, but it will happen ahead of any
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Speaker 4: constant threat. So I personally think that the Bitcoin network
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Speaker 4: is not at risk of content because they'll do the
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Speaker 4: right thing in the end, because they always have done
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Speaker 4: in the pucks.
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Speaker 2: So back for four year cycle.
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Speaker 4: Okay, A four year cycles quite fun because the thesis
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Speaker 4: is that now you mind bitcoin, and there's a harvey
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Speaker 4: every four years, and there's a big run in the
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Speaker 4: two years ahead of or eighteen months two years ahead
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Speaker 4: into inter harbing and then and then there's room and
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Speaker 4: then everyone gets bored and there's a collapse in the
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Speaker 4: in the sort of mid terms as it were. And
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Speaker 4: you know, at Bikery, we've got this wonderful guy called
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Speaker 4: Robin Griftiths. He's in his ages now and he's been
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Speaker 4: talking about the four year cycle since I could remember.
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Speaker 4: And I started listening to him in nineteenninety eight, and
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Speaker 4: he was talking about it about twenty years before that,
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Speaker 4: and it was the UF presidential election cycle. Okay, so
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Speaker 4: that's let's let's do some four years. This will shock you, Okay,
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Speaker 4: We'll started nineteen seventy four. There was a savage savage
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Speaker 4: bear market in nineteen seventy eight. Your pick one's on
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Speaker 4: an invention at this point. Gold probably nineteen eighty two
9:14
Speaker 4: was famously the best year in history to buy the
9:16
Speaker 4: stock market and probably the bond market is well. Actually
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Speaker 4: a huge times followed that. Eighty six comes next, Now
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Speaker 4: eighty six something didn't happen, which was the top. It
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Speaker 4: dragged on for another year and then we got a
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Speaker 4: little mighty crash. Cycle breaks and you don't get your
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Speaker 4: your dip then then then there's a little theory there.
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Speaker 4: So nineteen ninety that was a bit nasty, going into
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Speaker 4: the hydra trade era ninety four was the fed rapes
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Speaker 4: crashed ninety eight, the agent Russian default crisis. Two thousand
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Speaker 4: and two was the nasty old dot com leg Yeah,
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Speaker 4: are you getting interested yet?
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Speaker 2: Always interested?
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Speaker 3: Always interested?
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Speaker 4: Love as two thousand and six having happened, isn't it?
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Speaker 4: And we had to wait two years and then we
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Speaker 4: had a mega mega monster crash in two thousand and
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Speaker 4: eight as a result of if.
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Speaker 2: You have to if you have to wait two years,
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Speaker 2: it doesn't count, not a four year cycle. If you
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Speaker 2: keep having to wait.
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Speaker 4: A year and two years the cycle quick.
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Speaker 2: Four year cycle was every four years.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, but if you fiddle around religious states and things,
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Speaker 4: then maybe you can drag these things out a bit
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Speaker 4: longer than they should do. So perhaps you fight the
10:22
Speaker 4: cycle for a bit, but then you stretch the band
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Speaker 4: too far. So we've got to two thousand and six
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Speaker 4: extended to wait twenty ten wasn't great, but we had
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Speaker 4: the greed crisis as well. Okay, and now we go
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Speaker 4: into the bitcoin cycle. So twenty fourteen you couldn't see
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Speaker 4: it in the in the in the market so much.
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Speaker 4: Fourteen was was not memorable. Bitcoin was down a lot
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Speaker 4: in twenty fourteen.
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Speaker 3: And just bitcoin was launched in noise. It was not
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Speaker 3: or nane because it was straight after the financial crisis,
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Speaker 3: wasn't it that it kind.
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Speaker 4: Of was born first they called Crist twenty ten and
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Speaker 4: people that people have heard of it in the general
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Speaker 4: public had heard of it in twenty and thirty are
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Speaker 4: to Mount Cox. So we now in twenty eighteen, that
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Speaker 4: was another stink of a Bitcoin down eighty two percent.
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Speaker 4: Then were in twenty twenty two fit coins down seventy
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Speaker 4: four percent. It was also a tech bear market in
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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three, and a bond bear market. Now we're
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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty six. So there's your four year cycle.
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Speaker 4: And I'll say it's not bitcoin cycle, it's the you know,
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Speaker 4: it's the world cycle. And Bitcoin is the expression of
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Speaker 4: that cycle, because it's you know, as many people say,
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Speaker 4: it's an expression of liquidity. And so the asset that
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Speaker 4: gets hit the most is the one that's in the
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Speaker 4: firing light.
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Speaker 2: So should we expect it to be a bit of
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Speaker 2: a canary in the cold mine? And obviously we've seen
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Speaker 2: a lot of volatility in gold and silver, and also
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Speaker 2: a lot on the software stocks and big tech, but
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Speaker 2: that hasn't really turned up in the entities yet because
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Speaker 2: there's been in quite a rotation into other stuff. Should
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Speaker 2: we expect worse to happen?
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Speaker 4: Absolutely, one hundred percent. I mean we were all over.
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Speaker 4: We're in the biggest bubble in indexation in the history
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Speaker 4: of the world, and you know, the two thirds of
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Speaker 4: America and within the American index, you know, all this
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Speaker 4: tech and stuff. So I think you're cuts has brought
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Speaker 4: that point out many times, and it's just it's a
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Speaker 4: bleeding obvious, isn't it. And but everyone continues for for
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Speaker 4: for bury it's reasons career risk, regulatory so on, to
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Speaker 4: to hug the indices and and those mega mega Bega
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Speaker 4: stocks are our ironoscope of value. But let's go back
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Speaker 4: a few months. You know, we saw the Spotify's and
12:20
Speaker 4: the netflixes and those sorts of things correct, all those
12:23
Speaker 4: sort of internet leadia services. Uh, and now we've got
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Speaker 4: the software, but the but the big tech hasn't really
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Speaker 4: dived yet. It's always last to go. The figures is
12:32
Speaker 4: last week. So you know, I do think that we
12:34
Speaker 4: found this extraordinary top but it but that does we
12:36
Speaker 4: shouldn't gay from the top stock market at all, because
12:39
Speaker 4: what we've been deserving. We run these sort of the
12:45
Speaker 4: mentor models every week and we do a piece on
12:47
Speaker 4: Monday's called Global Trends by Creep Global Trends and Tree
12:51
Speaker 4: to Read, And basically we've been observing this enormous rotation
12:55
Speaker 4: and the main one is out of the US into
12:57
Speaker 4: the rest of the world. So the US we've done
12:59
Speaker 4: a because of stablished s, and t rest of the
13:02
Speaker 4: world has been very strong. And then take that a
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Speaker 4: stage further. We had big breakouts in consumer stakeboards, you know,
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Speaker 4: the boring stocks, the toothpaste and the watching up liquid
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Speaker 4: as opposed to the exciting space exploration. So we're having
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Speaker 4: that rotation now and so there's only a stuff that
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Speaker 4: can go up in the world when big tech stocks
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Speaker 4: are going down. And of course, the indices won't be
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Speaker 4: very happy with the biggest stocks going down, but there's
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Speaker 4: loads of global midst walk cap in faraway places. You know.
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Speaker 4: Everyone's an expert in AI and computers and check and things.
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Speaker 2: I know. It's amazing, isn't it how quickly that happened.
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Speaker 2: They're wrong with nothing about it, being an absolute expert
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Speaker 2: in artists.
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Speaker 4: They're all going to be in Southeast Asia and Latin
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Speaker 4: America and Central Europe before you know.
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Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, I'm an expert and all that stuff already, Charlie.
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Speaker 4: You're an expert. We all know.
13:55
Speaker 3: This was from the last second. We haven't updated.
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Speaker 2: We're apts but slightly out of date from last time round.
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Speaker 2: We're also experts on commodity super cycles, aren't we, John,
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Speaker 2: So that might come in hand.
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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah.
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Speaker 2: But Charlie, listen, the key question really is this. Has
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Speaker 2: there been any change to the long term case for bitcoin?
14:14
Speaker 2: You know, so everyone thought that with President Trump's second
14:19
Speaker 2: presidency that there would be an extraordinary environment for cryptocurrencies
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Speaker 2: in general, there'd be a regulatory environment that would mean
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Speaker 2: they would kind of go to the moon. That hasn't
14:27
Speaker 2: quite happened, and there's also maybe competition to bitcoin in
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Speaker 2: the form of the various different types of stable coin,
14:33
Speaker 2: and so there has been changed, There are shifts. Has anything,
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Speaker 2: to your mind changed for the long term case for
14:41
Speaker 2: holding bitcoin.
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Speaker 4: No, it's the Internet. So the Internet stocks are going down.
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Speaker 4: Bitcoin's caught up in that is the Internet shrinking.
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Speaker 2: I don't understand why bitcoin represents the Internet. I know
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Speaker 2: it represents software. I know it's an expression of liquidity,
15:00
Speaker 2: but anything else could be an expression of liquidity as well.
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Speaker 4: On a different day, we've got booming stable coin industry,
15:08
Speaker 4: you know, we've got booming computers. AI is going to
15:12
Speaker 4: headgehunds will probably end up being run by AI. And
15:15
Speaker 4: there they're not going to fill around with a you know,
15:18
Speaker 4: a good old fashion pack account doing transaxles. They're going, yes,
15:21
Speaker 4: straight to crypto.
15:22
Speaker 2: And why would they just use table coins though.
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Speaker 4: Well they will, but it's all part of the same ecosystem,
15:29
Speaker 4: you know, they're all connected. And I think that that bitcoin.
15:33
Speaker 4: I mean, let's look at the price of pitcoin. Okay,
15:37
Speaker 4: it's just crashed down to sixty pound dollars. I think
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Speaker 4: it's already sixty five.
15:41
Speaker 2: No, No, it's back back up to sixty six. Don't worry,
15:43
Speaker 2: We've got proper volatility going here on here, yes, right,
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Speaker 2: five and a half percent to sixty six two hundred
15:49
Speaker 2: and sixty seven dollars and twenty nine cents. Okay, So
15:52
Speaker 2: that's a hell of a move from sixty thousand.
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Speaker 4: Where it was every night, right, So I was referring
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Speaker 4: to the mid of the night, and it's already covered
15:59
Speaker 4: quite a lot from that. We can express it in
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Speaker 4: various different waves, and I think the important point is
16:05
Speaker 4: that the levels that it's at now are the same
16:08
Speaker 4: levels of the peak of a large cycle. So in
16:10
Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, we were flirting in the mid mid sixties,
16:14
Speaker 4: and here we are in the mid sixties. Now. The
16:15
Speaker 4: previous cycle, you know, we saw exactly the same behavior.
16:20
Speaker 4: You know that the price peeds at nineteen thousand in
16:23
Speaker 4: the end of two thousand and seven, and then in
16:26
Speaker 4: the twenty two point cycle in that bear market, it
16:29
Speaker 4: goes down to fifteen sixteen. It was below. So you know,
16:33
Speaker 4: straightforward technical analysis one oh one, where you know you're
16:36
Speaker 4: all high is the next low and that sort of thing.
16:39
Speaker 4: And you know, I don't forgive me. I don't really
16:41
Speaker 4: run my vestment strategy on these theories. But with what
16:44
Speaker 4: we have for a major point resistance, we you know,
16:47
Speaker 4: Tube level pointy two twenty one, which was probably the
16:50
Speaker 4: most hype cycle ever. The thick point those levels are
16:54
Speaker 4: pretty solid, and you know, a lot of perhaps were launched,
16:57
Speaker 4: and we had you know, futures were well established by
17:00
Speaker 4: then and and all these things.
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Speaker 3: Okay, So so I mean because obviously the other question
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Speaker 3: here is I am infamous no coiner, but I would
17:12
Speaker 3: quite late to catch it on the next say, we'll see,
17:15
Speaker 3: I'm not having fun staying poor. So you know, you're
17:19
Speaker 3: basically saying that a roundabout here is a good time
17:22
Speaker 3: to buy if you want to get.
17:24
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, this can't happen. John buying his
17:26
Speaker 2: first bitcoin would literally mean that the whole world would implode.
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Speaker 3: Just it's the end of crypto. When I praised that
17:33
Speaker 3: by you.
17:34
Speaker 2: Don't encourage him to do this, Charlie.
17:37
Speaker 4: John's you're ready goal. Yes, okay, so let's do a
17:42
Speaker 4: bit of bitcoin gold, should we?
17:44
Speaker 2: Yeah?
17:45
Speaker 5: Yeah, even said like that idea, and that's what said
17:53
Speaker 5: things about bitcoin and gold danger alert alert.
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Speaker 4: In three seventeen. You know, very briefly, one bitcoin, we'll
18:03
Speaker 4: buy you fifteen ounces of gold that crashed down to
18:05
Speaker 4: about three and twenty nineteen, and then in the twenty
18:08
Speaker 4: one bear market, a bull market at biggettarbon, he got
18:11
Speaker 4: you thirty five ounces, so bitcoin twenty five ounces, that
18:14
Speaker 4: crashed down to about ten nine or ten. And then
18:18
Speaker 4: earlier this year you could have nearly got forty outs.
18:20
Speaker 4: You've got thirty nine outs that've got and we've now
18:22
Speaker 4: crashed down to about fourteen yep. So you know, gold
18:28
Speaker 4: is gold has had a bit of a wabble weecs
18:30
Speaker 4: lee silver and massive crash out of really strong, super
18:34
Speaker 4: strong up trends massively over or massively eyped, so they've
18:37
Speaker 4: crashed from eyes. Bitcoin was already a downtrend. It's been
18:40
Speaker 4: in the down trends is October since the announce deck
18:43
Speaker 4: beach and the text dots, so it came down and
18:45
Speaker 4: that's crashed from a down trip. So you basically got
18:48
Speaker 4: I think in the financial speak, you know, one of
18:52
Speaker 4: them's ten thousand sigma something overbought and the other's one
18:55
Speaker 4: million sigma deviations over sold. So he's basically got once
19:00
Speaker 4: for a hot marketing, which is gold, and you've got
19:02
Speaker 4: one ice cold market, which is bitcoin. And so you
19:06
Speaker 4: know which are you by your deck? And if you
19:08
Speaker 4: think bitcoin's going to zero because it's a Ponzi scheme
19:10
Speaker 4: and you you know, but the seventeen year old Ponzi scheme,
19:14
Speaker 4: but like five thousand old.
19:16
Speaker 2: Hey, they can always last longer than you think possible.
19:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's the only ponsy skiing with huge transparency and
19:23
Speaker 4: the public, the open blockchain and the free market and
19:25
Speaker 4: all that.
19:27
Speaker 3: To be fair, I don't think it's some points scheme.
19:30
Speaker 3: I think that is is just a lazy dismissal palsy
19:34
Speaker 3: on the head.
19:34
Speaker 2: I mean no, there will be no Ponzi on the
19:38
Speaker 2: ahead of this. It will say Charlie Morris says, buy
19:42
Speaker 2: bitcoin now if you don't want to have fun staying poor,
19:46
Speaker 2: right John, Yeah.
19:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm not really a little bit longer you
19:51
Speaker 4: think I am. It's my night job. It's not my
19:52
Speaker 4: day job. You know, you know, a big kind golga. Yes,
19:57
Speaker 4: so excuse the flood. But you know, bold gold, gold
20:01
Speaker 4: risk weighted and all that. And we listened in London
20:04
Speaker 4: three months ago, took a bold, take a bold in Germany,
20:07
Speaker 4: tick a bold in France, in the Netherlands, in Sweden
20:10
Speaker 4: and Italy, or Monday.
20:12
Speaker 2: And congratulations Charlie.
20:15
Speaker 4: And you know it's two thirds gold, one for bitcoin
20:19
Speaker 4: and basically trying to get the best out of both
20:21
Speaker 4: because the combination of the two assets is truly magical.
20:25
Speaker 4: You know, they work against each other, are consistent, low correlation,
20:31
Speaker 4: and it's a very powerful thing to own. And if
20:35
Speaker 4: you risk weigh bitcoin and gold and to those to
20:39
Speaker 4: those bivolatility, basically you've got the cleanest expression of the
20:44
Speaker 4: global money supply growth out there. So when people say, oh,
20:47
Speaker 4: bitcoin's the monetary hedge, No, gold's the monetary hedge. Actually
20:51
Speaker 4: one's will risk off traditionally gold. See it's looked pretty
20:54
Speaker 4: riskne recently. But let's face it, it's driven by central
20:57
Speaker 4: banks more than anything else. And obviously speculators joined the
21:00
Speaker 4: party in the last year, as John Reeve was saying
21:02
Speaker 4: your last podcast, But but the central banks are the
21:06
Speaker 4: under underpinning all of this. Then the central banks don't
21:09
Speaker 4: buy silver and they don't buy bitcoin, so you know,
21:12
Speaker 4: you know, they they don't get the narratives of the same.
21:15
Speaker 4: So people say, oh, yeah, end of the world dollar
21:18
Speaker 4: crisis BEFO the basement of this sort of thing. And
21:21
Speaker 4: then and then actually it's not applicable to any of them.
21:23
Speaker 4: You know, they're all going up down for their own reasons,
21:27
Speaker 4: and and and and and you know, silver's crash from
21:30
Speaker 4: a bubble and bitcoins crash from a period of weakness
21:35
Speaker 4: related to tech. Very different. But you put them together
21:37
Speaker 4: and you just get this calm expression of the global
21:39
Speaker 4: money supply. So it comes back to liquidity. You know,
21:42
Speaker 4: the more money there is in the world, the more
21:44
Speaker 4: money is they're in market, then then these things go
21:47
Speaker 4: up long term and big. When it's seventy five if
21:50
Speaker 4: you take a takeout stable coins, it's seventy five percent
21:52
Speaker 4: of printer. You know, it's this one. This one got
21:55
Speaker 4: the whole asset class. Next is a pilium, and then
21:58
Speaker 4: and then there's to It's all pretty small, and of
22:00
Speaker 4: course they're own.
22:01
Speaker 2: So maybe maybe to keep the global financial structures safe,
22:06
Speaker 2: which you'd be encouraging John to buy a bit of
22:08
Speaker 2: Bold as opposed to actually go out and buy his
22:10
Speaker 2: own bitcoin.
22:11
Speaker 4: Well, of course John should buy Bold. He should switch
22:13
Speaker 4: this goal to bold, because if he's got gold, that's
22:16
Speaker 4: massively more warms of standard deviations over bought. Then diversifying,
22:20
Speaker 4: you can't diverse by gold with stilver. So how do
22:24
Speaker 4: you have an alternative asset? Of course you can, you can,
22:26
Speaker 4: you can add add to your silver sets into you
22:28
Speaker 4: five hundred. But we're talking about alternative assets here. Yeah,
22:31
Speaker 4: we're talking about off grid, globally neutral, no cash flow
22:35
Speaker 4: assets which are far more interesting. And what's your choice.
22:39
Speaker 4: Something that's going to give you maintain high liquidity and
22:42
Speaker 4: low correlation. That's bitcoin, So bold is what you should do, John, Yeah, there.
22:47
Speaker 2: Go, John, Okay, So there we go. So Charlie find
22:50
Speaker 2: me that keithing we're pulling out of this? Isn't that
22:52
Speaker 2: your opinion? It's absolutely fine to hold onto your bitcoin
22:55
Speaker 2: bitcoin for the long term. Nothing significant has changed. Whatever.
22:58
Speaker 2: Whatever one thought about bitcoin previously, one can continue to
23:00
Speaker 2: think now. But if you want to hold it in
23:04
Speaker 2: a less volatile form, maybe mix it up with gold.
23:06
Speaker 4: A bit well, that would be what that would be
23:08
Speaker 4: multi Yeah, I know.
23:10
Speaker 2: I'm repeating your take back to you just for confirmation purposes,
23:14
Speaker 2: because everyone everyone will probably still know roughly why I
23:17
Speaker 2: stand on this matters. And John over there, who doesn't
23:19
Speaker 2: hold any bitcoins us for the record, of course I do. John, Well,
23:24
Speaker 2: I tell you what John in our next podcast next week,
23:27
Speaker 2: we will find out what you have done. So if
23:30
Speaker 2: any listeners have any recommend recommendations for John go out
23:33
Speaker 2: and buy a bitcoin and destroy the global financial structure,
23:37
Speaker 2: or buy a nice ETF that mixes them up, or
23:40
Speaker 2: just hang on to your gold. What does everyone think
23:43
Speaker 2: John should do? Please email us about that on Merrimney
23:47
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot net. Charlie, thank you so much for
23:50
Speaker 2: joining us today, John, thank you too. Thanks for listening
23:53
Speaker 2: to this week's Myrin Talks Money. If you like us, share, rate, review,
23:56
Speaker 2: and subscribe Wherever you listen to podcasts. Keep sending questions
23:59
Speaker 2: or comment and advice for John, of course to Merron
24:01
Speaker 2: Money at Bloomberg dot net. You can also follow me
24:04
Speaker 2: and John on Twitter or ex I'm Marinus w John
24:07
Speaker 2: is John Underscore, Stepek and Charlie. You are at Atlas
24:11
Speaker 2: Pulse right.
24:12
Speaker 4: Yeah on Twitter or by Tree dot com. Be White on.
24:14
Speaker 2: Twitter or by Tree dot com. This episode was hosted
24:18
Speaker 2: by Me Maren sumset Web with John Steppeck. It was
24:20
Speaker 2: produced by Someersadi and Moses, and special thanks to Charlie
24:24
Speaker 2: Morris for joining us on this emergency Marron Talks Money
24:27
Speaker 2: podcast