Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / TEEN COLLEGE GIRL SHERIDAN GORMAN SHOT DEAD: ILLEGAL VENEZUELAN SUSPECT

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TEEN COLLEGE GIRL SHERIDAN GORMAN SHOT DEAD: ILLEGAL VENEZUELAN SUSPECT · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a gorgeous young teen college girl.
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Speaker 1: An eighteen year old co ed Sheridan Gorman is shot
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Speaker 1: dead on a stroll with friends, executed in cold blood
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Speaker 1: tonight and illegal Venezuelan immigrant prime suspect. I'm Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us.
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Speaker 2: Eighteen year old freshman Sheridan Gorman was a bright, rising
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Speaker 2: star at Loyola University Chicago until in a single moment,
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Speaker 2: everything changed.
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Speaker 1: What happened to this beautiful young co ed joining us
0:43
Speaker 1: an all star panel? But first I want you to
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Speaker 1: hear the police dispatch from that shooting incident. Listen, and
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Speaker 1: we got shot by her. It was a nailed and
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Speaker 1: a ski man.
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Speaker 3: When I'm Black Munich on of the lighthouse.
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Speaker 4: See if have anyone in custody.
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Speaker 3: There's no one acussy at this time right negative, We're
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Speaker 3: looking for a mail wearing an all.
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Speaker 1: Humat straight out to Sydney' Sumner Crime Stories investigative reporter
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Speaker 1: Sydney lead me up to the moment that shots rang out.
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Speaker 5: This was a Thursday night like any other for Sheridan
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Speaker 5: Gorman and her newfound friends at Loyola University. The group decides, hey,
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Speaker 5: we might be able to see the northern lights tonight.
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Speaker 5: Let's go walk out to the beach and see if
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Speaker 5: we can get some photos of the lights over the
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Speaker 5: skyline of the city. So this group takes a point
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Speaker 5: seven mile walk. They're four minutes from campus when they
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Speaker 5: reach the pier where they want to take these photos
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Speaker 5: and Sheridan notices something going on behind some bushes. She
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Speaker 5: kind of points it out to her friends and a
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Speaker 5: masked man. This man wearing all black and a ski
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Speaker 5: mask emerges from those bushes in the dark, and as
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Speaker 5: they kind of back off from this guy, he pulls
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Speaker 5: out a gun opened fire at these college students who
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Speaker 5: just stumbled upon him, and Sheridan she's hit.
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Speaker 1: You know, the dichotomy of just starting your life out
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Speaker 1: being a college student with so many possibilities before you.
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Speaker 1: She's eighteen years old, going to college, scrubbed in sunshine.
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Speaker 1: It's the parents' dream come true. They were their whole life,
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Speaker 1: all their time, all their effort, all their money they
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Speaker 1: pour into her to get her to college. Maybe I'm
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Speaker 1: projecting Sydney because my children are about to go away
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Speaker 1: to college. They think, oh, we did it. We made it.
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Speaker 1: She's gonna be fine. This she wants did you say
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Speaker 1: point seven miles not even a mile, not even a
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Speaker 1: fifteen minute walk, for Pete's sake, four.
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Speaker 5: Minutes from the edge of Loyola campus.
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Speaker 1: The dichotomy is very unsettling, straight out to doctor Jerlyn Utter.
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Speaker 1: She is clinical psychologists specializing in psychological evaluations and risk assessments,
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Speaker 1: author of mainlining Philly Survival Hope Resisting Drug Addiction, and
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Speaker 1: she is the producer and star of Utter Nonsense, a documentary.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Jerlyne, thank you for being with us. What is it?
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Speaker 1: It's just such a stark comparison to her life, just
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Speaker 1: really getting started at age eighteen and then being struck
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Speaker 1: down doing something as innocent is going on a walk
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Speaker 1: with her friends to see the northern lights.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, with something like this, Nancy, a lot of questions
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Speaker 6: that's probably going through folks head is why her this
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Speaker 6: eighteen year old girl, she's beautiful, she's away at her
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Speaker 6: first year of college. And when we look at something
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Speaker 6: like that, we look at psychologically a concept called target substitution.
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Speaker 6: So what that means is she may not have been
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Speaker 6: somebody that was stalked by this particular individual, but in
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Speaker 6: the moment the decision was made that it would be her.
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Speaker 6: So though the intent initially may not have been her
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Speaker 6: or that she was being stalked, it was definitely something
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Speaker 6: that was planned in that moment that he made the
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Speaker 6: decision that of those other folks, that she was the
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Speaker 6: one that was potentially going to be targeted. So we
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Speaker 6: call that target substitution. And from you know, the perpetrator's perspective,
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Speaker 6: it usually comes from a place of you know, no empathy, grievance, control, anger.
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Speaker 6: He's angry about something, though it may not be her specifically,
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Speaker 6: it may be something that she represents and he wanted
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Speaker 6: to basically, you know, institute a lot of pain and suffering.
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Speaker 3: For other folks.
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Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at a graduation photo of the
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Speaker 1: victim and she is wearing her braids around her neck.
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Speaker 1: When I said scrubbed and sunshine, I really meant it.
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Speaker 1: And another thing I don't understand Sidney Sumner, apparently a
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Speaker 1: Chicago lawmaker blamed the victim after saying this teen girl
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Speaker 1: was killed her words, not mine by a quote illegal
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Speaker 1: immigrant was in the wrong place. She she her the
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Speaker 1: victim was in the wrong place at the wrong time,
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Speaker 1: and she quote startled her attacker, suggesting Sheridan was shot
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Speaker 1: dead there on the lake front because she was in
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Speaker 1: the wrong place, the wrong time at startle Jose Medina
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Speaker 1: Medina of Venezuelan man. So do I have that right?
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Speaker 1: Did the female lawmaker actually say it, sir, her fault
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Speaker 1: because she startled him.
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Speaker 5: I don't think that was the intent behind the comment, Nancy.
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Speaker 5: But yes, they are saying that Sheridan maybe should not
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Speaker 5: have been out that late at night. But this is
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Speaker 5: a college student.
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Speaker 1: Okay, this is just hard. Hold on, let me understand
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Speaker 1: what a Crime Stories investigator just said. A lawmaker blurted
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Speaker 1: something out but quote didn't really mean it. You, Sidney Sumner,
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Speaker 1: can divine what she really meant. And you're saying that
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Speaker 1: she meant that she shouldn't have been out that night.
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Speaker 1: That's your explanation. So the victims shouldn't have been out.
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Speaker 5: Of course, not Nancy. Of course, this victim should be
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Speaker 5: able to do whatever she wants to do. This is
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Speaker 5: a grown woman. Her college campus should be a safe place.
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Speaker 5: Chicago should be a safe place for a young woman
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Speaker 5: to be out with a group of friends ten minutes
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Speaker 5: from her dorm. Four minutes from her dorm to take
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Speaker 5: photos of the northern lights, to enjoy the city skyline. So,
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Speaker 5: of course Sheridan Gorman did nothing wrong by being out
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Speaker 5: with her friends. Her stumbling upon this man should not
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Speaker 5: be a reason that she's now dead, that her life
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Speaker 5: is now extinguished. Of course that should not be the case.
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Speaker 5: And this older woman did make a comment, Yes, this
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Speaker 5: young teen girl was unfortunately a victim of a wrong place,
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Speaker 5: wrong time.
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Speaker 1: Murder.
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Speaker 5: Something that never Okay, you.
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Speaker 1: Know that's something I'm not understanding. And to me, you're
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Speaker 1: digging your own haul. You're gray with your teeth right
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Speaker 1: now by the because there's no way to clarify what
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Speaker 1: this lawmaker, and I'm using that in a loose sense
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Speaker 1: of the word said, So if you're saying, Sydney, she
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Speaker 1: didn't mean what she said. I watched the clip, that's
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Speaker 1: not how she meant it. What she meant was she
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Speaker 1: shouldn't have been out at night. Well, that it's just
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Speaker 1: as bad. I've heard that my whole life since I
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Speaker 1: started prosecuting. The victim shouldn't have been at a bar?
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Speaker 1: Why the victims shouldn't have worn a short skirt, Why
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Speaker 1: the victim shouldn't have jogged. Why I've heard it and
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Speaker 1: heard it and heard it. If it starts with the
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Speaker 1: victims shouldn't have then I rejected this girl. And she
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Speaker 1: is a girl. She is eighteen years old, was out
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Speaker 1: on a stroll with her friend girls to see the
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Speaker 1: northern lights. There she is in her Honograd outfit and
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Speaker 1: she is gunned down. And it will be a cold
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Speaker 1: day in hl that I buy that the shooter was
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Speaker 1: quote startled what he had dressed in all black. He
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Speaker 1: was wearing a ski mask to cover his face. He
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Speaker 1: came to the location with a gun straight out to
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Speaker 1: Greg Morris joining me. Veteran defense attorney, he is the
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Speaker 1: founder of Morse Legal and author of The Untested Greg So,
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Speaker 1: when was the last time you went for a walk
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Speaker 1: wearing a ski mask and carrying a gun? Let's just
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Speaker 1: start right there.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's never happened before. A ski mask went on
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Speaker 7: in a cold weather place, but never Palm Beach. Okay,
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Speaker 7: you know this is the issue, Like the lawmaker. What's
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Speaker 7: problematic and troubling is the lawmakers statement should have been
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Speaker 7: we failed this girl because we don't put any resources
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Speaker 7: into security. This park should have had security. This park
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Speaker 7: should have had better lighting. You can have all the
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Speaker 7: technology you want in law enforcement, but you need police
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Speaker 7: officers on the ground walking around. That's what stops crime.
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Speaker 7: Lighting stops crime. It doesn't give people places to hide.
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Speaker 7: And that's the reason why these things are going to
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Speaker 7: continue to happen in places like I guess Chicago, because
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Speaker 7: they have lawmakers that are blaming victims for doing whatever.
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Speaker 7: Single person does goes out at night, especially young people,
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Speaker 7: and this was a very nice thing to do. It
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Speaker 7: wasn't partying, it wasn't anything. It was going to the park.
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Speaker 7: And I imagine Loyal is a very expensive university and
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Speaker 7: the fact that there's no security at this park from
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Speaker 7: the campus is tragic and parents should be demanding more
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Speaker 7: from the university. This easily could have been avoided by
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Speaker 7: simple security measures at the school, I have no doubt
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Speaker 7: has plenty of money to put in place.
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Speaker 4: So it's, you.
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Speaker 7: Know, one of the unfortunate things that people can become
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Speaker 7: victims anywhere in our society, especially a free society. And
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Speaker 7: what's not being talked about, Nancy, which is important, how
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Speaker 7: did this undocumented immigrant get the gun? Who gave the gun,
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Speaker 7: where'd the gun come from? There's been no talk of
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Speaker 7: that at all. That's an important aspect to this, that
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Speaker 7: someone who legally cannot buy a firearm bought one and
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Speaker 7: killed a young lady who had all the promise.
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Speaker 4: In the world.
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Speaker 1: Okay, you know what I had to write so quickly
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Speaker 1: I can't even read my writing. All the people you blamed.
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Speaker 1: Just then I was three inches of Sydney Summer's tailpipe
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Speaker 1: trying to defend that council woman blaming the victim. But
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Speaker 1: this is who you blame. Start counting. You're gonna need
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Speaker 1: both hands, Jamie. Start counting. One the lawmakers. Two the park.
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Speaker 1: It was the Chicago Park's fault. Three the lighting. They
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Speaker 1: needed better lighting. Four the police officers should have been there.
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Speaker 1: Where were all the police officers? That's what for? Five?
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Speaker 1: Campus security, it's their fault they were not there by
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Speaker 1: the lake. It's the university's fault. What is that? I'm
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Speaker 1: up to six? Six, it's the university's fault. Then you
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Speaker 1: blame fate, fate you want to. Then you blamed our
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Speaker 1: free society that it's I guess the American ways our
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Speaker 1: fault because we're not in communist China and lockdown. Oh
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Speaker 1: and wait, who gave him the gun. It's their fault.
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Speaker 7: Well, we want to stop these things.
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Speaker 1: It's Medina's fault. Oh wait, I got another one way
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Speaker 1: he blames somebody else. Why am I hearing him? I thought,
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Speaker 1: I say, god, his mic, but I'm still hearing him.
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Speaker 1: How did he did? You? Did he say? How did
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Speaker 1: he get back in the country? Why was he? Why
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Speaker 1: was he here? I guess he's blaming Iron asked, Okay, I'm
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Speaker 1: not sure about that because I was writing so quickly.
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Speaker 1: Sidney Sumner, you're all probation for a few moments. Isn't
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Speaker 1: it true that the perp was dressed? This is the yes. No.
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Speaker 1: By the way, all in black, all in black, ski
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Speaker 1: ski mask correct, gun correct, hiding in bushes mm hmm,
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Speaker 1: jumped out on a bunch of girls.
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Speaker 5: I am not sure the composition of the friend group.
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Speaker 5: I don't know if it's Sheridan and four other girls.
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Speaker 5: I know it was Sheridan and four other friends.
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Speaker 1: Thank you, Sidney for that subtle yet important distinction. Okay,
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Speaker 1: Greg Morse, there is no way you can blame anybody
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Speaker 1: except Medina. Medina, he's the one clad in blame. Of course,
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Speaker 1: wearing a ski mask with a gun. You can Outlind
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Speaker 1: the lighting or the police weren't there, or the campus security.
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Speaker 1: You cannot take the focus off him, and you better
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Speaker 1: not pile on and blame the victim.
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Speaker 7: Well, it's not no, it's just a simple fact that
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Speaker 7: you know, as a society, you want to create things
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Speaker 7: in situations so this can't happen or limit happening. It
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Speaker 7: can happen anywhere. Of course, we're a free society, and
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Speaker 7: Medina is the guy that's responsible for this, at least
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Speaker 7: according to law enforcement.
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Speaker 4: Right now, that's who they arrested.
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Speaker 7: But when we look at the situation, there's situations all
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Speaker 7: over America. Simple things that could be done that can,
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Speaker 7: you know, maybe avoid this from happening.
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Speaker 4: You know, I don't. I don't. I live in Florida.
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Speaker 7: I practice law, and I don't live in a state
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Speaker 7: where you know, this happens. But there's a different view
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Speaker 7: when it comes.
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Speaker 1: To are you killing me. Murders don't happen in Florida.
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Speaker 4: I said they do.
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Speaker 1: In Orlando.
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Speaker 7: I'm a criminal defense lawyer that handles these cases.
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Speaker 8: Yes, we have a lot of that's Insanelida, and I
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Speaker 8: blame us.
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Speaker 1: I'd blame the drug trade out of Florida for a
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Speaker 1: lot of crime in Atlanta because the dopers come straight up.
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Speaker 1: I seventy five first major pit stop Atlanta. Let's have
14:44
Speaker 1: a turf war. So, I don't know what you're saying.
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Speaker 1: There's no murder in Florida.
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Speaker 4: No, there's plenty of crime that go in Florida.
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Speaker 7: I was referencing the fact that when we have things
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Speaker 7: here that happened, the government tries to correct the situation
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Speaker 7: so it doesn't happen again. You can't stop this young lady.
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Speaker 7: She was unfortunately killed. So what do we do to
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Speaker 7: try to avoid this? And when you read about the situation,
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Speaker 7: there's some pretty simple things that may have saved this.
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Speaker 1: Just a let violent felons come back in the country.
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Speaker 1: You know, we can start with a petty Why single
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Speaker 1: them violent felons behind bars instead of letting them rotate
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Speaker 1: out like their graduation at kindergarten. Just keep on walking,
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Speaker 1: keep on walking.
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Speaker 7: Native born Americans commit more crime than undocumented immigrants by
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Speaker 7: a rate of over fifty percent. Native born Americans commit
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Speaker 7: more crime than any resident of any other country.
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Speaker 1: Let me be really clear, for Greg Moores and everyone,
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Speaker 1: I don't care if you're an illegal immigrant or if
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Speaker 1: your great great great great grandpa came over on the Mayflower.
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Speaker 1: If you commit a violent fine, if you commit a
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Speaker 1: violent crime, you need to go to jail and stay
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Speaker 1: there and not come through the rotating, revolving door and
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Speaker 1: get right back out. That goes for illegal immigrants too.
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Speaker 1: Why is he here to Sydney, Sumner joining us, Sydney,
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Speaker 1: explain to me who is this guy? Why is he here?
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Speaker 5: Jose Medina is from Venezuela and he first arrived in
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Speaker 5: the US in the spring of twenty twenty three. From there,
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Speaker 5: we know he was briefly detained by border patrol, then
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Speaker 5: released into the country and he winds up in Chicago.
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Speaker 5: And just a few months after first entering the United States,
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Speaker 5: Medina robs a Macy store on State Street. About one
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Speaker 5: hundred and thirty two dollars was the charge.
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Speaker 1: Wait Ante, I thought it was shoplifting.
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Speaker 5: Shoplifting, correct, he stole from a Macy store.
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Speaker 1: Okay, because Roy, it's when you take something from a person,
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Speaker 1: whether you're armed. That would be armed robbery or simple
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Speaker 1: robbery as you just mentioned, where you take something away
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Speaker 1: from an individual, not to be confused with burglary. When
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Speaker 1: you enter a premises to commit a felony. That felony
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Speaker 1: could be vandalism, It could be a murder, it could
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Speaker 1: be rape, it could be theft. That's an assault on
17:28
Speaker 1: the premises as opposed to shoplifting, where you just swipe
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Speaker 1: something out of a store. But you were saying he
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Speaker 1: had been here not even a year before he's busted
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Speaker 1: on shoplifting.
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Speaker 5: Yes, so arrives in May twenty twenty three September twenty
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Speaker 5: twenty three hit with that shoplifting charge for lifting items
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Speaker 5: from a Macy's store, about one hundred and thirty two
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Speaker 5: dollars worth of merchandise stolen, and Medina, of course, is
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Speaker 5: released on bail and he never returns to court. There
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Speaker 5: was an active arrest warrant for Medina at the time
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Speaker 5: of Sheridan shooting.
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Speaker 1: Guys, this is bringing up the specter of so many
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Speaker 1: other young girls and young women attacked by illegal immigrants
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Speaker 1: with a violent past. I am not, and let me
18:17
Speaker 1: be clear, referring to immigrants that have helped make our
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Speaker 1: nation great. My family came from immigrants, poor Irish coming
18:28
Speaker 1: to America for a new start. I am referring to
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Speaker 1: felons that enter our country and are allowed to stay here. Again,
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Speaker 1: this is not about politics. Greg Morse would love to
18:47
Speaker 1: drive me down the path of arguing what difference does
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Speaker 1: it make if it is an illegal immigrant or it's
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Speaker 1: someone born and bred USA killer. It doesn't. But this
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Speaker 1: begs the question question of why is he here? What
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Speaker 1: was his record in Venezuela. I know this. This girl
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Speaker 1: is dead. This girl is dead because, according to police,
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Speaker 1: an illegal immigrant that should not have been here shot
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Speaker 1: her dead.
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Speaker 9: I really thought it was a fireword until I heard
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Speaker 9: the police sirens come and I got out of bed
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Speaker 9: and I just heard the screaming. They were saying, come
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Speaker 9: help us, We're over here.
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Speaker 3: Miss Sheridan Gorman was kind of just the first in
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Speaker 3: the group and the person they ran into shot her.
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Speaker 3: So one shot and killed her.
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Speaker 1: Just just tragic.
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Speaker 3: The other students ran, the shooter fled.
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Speaker 10: Her and four friends were literally a four minute walk
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Speaker 10: from campus, so it's not like they were out looking
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Speaker 10: for trouble or during one of the safest areas of Chicago.
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Speaker 10: From what I understand.
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Speaker 1: From our friends PIX eleven, ABC and NBC.
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Speaker 2: Early Thursday morning, Share and her friends went out hoping
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Speaker 2: to catch a glimpse of the northern lights. Unaware of
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Speaker 2: the danger.
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Speaker 10: Ahead, they saw this person coming over. They all got
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Speaker 10: up and started to walk away, and he just opened fire,
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Speaker 10: and unfortunately, you know, Sheridan was hit and we lost
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Speaker 10: her immediately.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 3: People come out here after dark. Weather's milder. We see
20:33
Speaker 3: that more as the spring and summer comes along. You know,
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Speaker 3: they were kind of down at the end of the pier.
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Speaker 3: Seems they stumbled onto someone.
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Speaker 1: They quote stumbled on to someone. That's not what happened.
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Speaker 1: He jumped out of the bushes armed. That's where our
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Speaker 1: friends at Picks eleven and ABC. That is older woman
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Speaker 1: Maria hadn't. Speaking from the Chicago forty ninth ward straight
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Speaker 1: out to Special Guests, joining US doctor Thomas Coin. He
21:02
Speaker 1: is the chief Medical Examiner District to Medical Examiner's office
21:06
Speaker 1: in Florida, where, according to Morris, they don't have any murders.
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Speaker 1: A forensic pathologist, toxicologist, neuropathologist, Dodger Coin, thank you for being.
21:16
Speaker 11: With us, Thank you, thank you for having me.
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Speaker 1: What did shear it and experience that night?
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Speaker 12: Well, unfortunately she got of a gunshot wounded the head
21:30
Speaker 12: and so the second that bullet would have impacted her skull,
21:35
Speaker 12: she would have been knocked unconscious, and she would have
21:38
Speaker 12: died almost immediately thereafter. Gun chow wounds at the head
21:42
Speaker 12: are devastating injuries. Most of these wounds are from nine
21:47
Speaker 12: millimeter handguns, and the velocity at which the bullet exits
21:51
Speaker 12: in the Forci Parris produces devastating injuries to the brain.
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Speaker 8: And you and I are.
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Speaker 12: Sitting here await or not even thinking about having to
22:00
Speaker 12: breathe in and breathe out. Those structures in our brain
22:03
Speaker 12: often are injured immediately after being shot in the head,
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Speaker 12: and so a person stops breathing, loses consciousness, and dies soon.
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Speaker 11: They're a devastating womb dodger.
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Speaker 1: Coin, we understand that a forty caliber bullet killed her,
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Speaker 1: What is the difference in say a forty caliber and
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Speaker 1: a nine versus a twenty two What would be the
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Speaker 1: different bigger?
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Speaker 12: And it packs much greater force, greater force than a
22:31
Speaker 12: twenty two caliber handgun, And so a wound to the
22:35
Speaker 12: head from a forty caliber handgun is devastating. In other words,
22:39
Speaker 12: the skull itself when the bullet impacts the skull would
22:43
Speaker 12: fracture as the bullet travels through the brain. Not only
22:47
Speaker 12: is a bullet destructive directed to the brain, but the
22:50
Speaker 12: force of the bullet creates a pressure wave around the bullet,
22:53
Speaker 12: which devastates brain structures that are even further away from
22:57
Speaker 12: the bullet itself. So a person often has severe skull
23:02
Speaker 12: fractures and devastating brain injuries throughout the entirety of not just.
23:07
Speaker 11: Where the bullet travels.
23:08
Speaker 12: So even a bullet that may graze the head or
23:10
Speaker 12: graze the brain can still be fatal just because of
23:13
Speaker 12: the force that bullet brings.
23:15
Speaker 11: With me.
23:16
Speaker 1: Now, you were describing a forty caliber, but could you
23:21
Speaker 1: compare it to a twenty two caliber?
23:24
Speaker 11: Specifically, sure, twenty two calibers. So I've had people who.
23:31
Speaker 12: Tempted to commit suicide by placing a twenty two caliber
23:33
Speaker 12: handgun against the head. And depending upon where that gun
23:37
Speaker 12: is placed, the skull itself may be thick enough to
23:40
Speaker 12: slow down the twenty two caliber bullet where it either
23:43
Speaker 12: stops in the skull or isn't as devastating, let's say,
23:46
Speaker 12: as a forty caliber or a nine millimeter projectile that
23:50
Speaker 12: will travel through the brain, often producing extensive skull fractures.
23:54
Speaker 12: And so the twenty two caliber tenth from a handgun
23:59
Speaker 12: in particular that tends to have a less force can
24:01
Speaker 12: still be devastating, especially you know, it strikes vital structures,
24:06
Speaker 12: can have fatal consequences or profound neurologic injuries. But tens
24:13
Speaker 12: did not have as much force as a nine millimeter
24:16
Speaker 12: or forty caliber handgun.
24:19
Speaker 1: What's the differential between the twenty two and a forty caliber.
24:22
Speaker 11: In terms of well the weight of it.
24:24
Speaker 12: You know, you're probably a forty caliber you're looking at,
24:26
Speaker 12: you know, above one hundred grains twenty two caliber below.
24:30
Speaker 12: But you know, in terms of the measurement I'd have
24:35
Speaker 12: to show you, you know, in terms of centimeter measurement,
24:37
Speaker 12: but a smaller, smaller projectile itself. And also you know,
24:43
Speaker 12: the actual gunpowder that is packed with so that it
24:46
Speaker 12: produces less force when it's fired.
24:49
Speaker 11: So the projectile's help is smaller and travels.
24:52
Speaker 12: With a lower velocity than a forty caliber or nine millimeters.
24:56
Speaker 12: Therefore the force, you know, mass and speed are going
24:59
Speaker 12: to be mass and velocity are going to do less.
25:04
Speaker 1: You know, doctor Thomas Coyne, I know you're looking at
25:06
Speaker 1: your monitor and seeing photos of shere it in It's
25:11
Speaker 1: hard for me difficult for me sometimes to discuss the
25:15
Speaker 1: facts the trajectory path of a bullet at the angle
25:19
Speaker 1: and look at the victim in life and reconcile that
25:25
Speaker 1: she is nothing now but a dead body on a
25:28
Speaker 1: slab to be autopsied, where you figure out the trajectory
25:34
Speaker 1: path and what the bullet did to her brain. Do
25:37
Speaker 1: you ever allow yourself to think about that when you
25:41
Speaker 1: are conducting an autopsy such as on a young girl
25:44
Speaker 1: like this.
25:45
Speaker 11: I try not to.
25:46
Speaker 12: I have a son who's graduating high school and about
25:48
Speaker 12: to go off to college, and so when I see
25:52
Speaker 12: victims that age, I have to turn off my emotions
25:55
Speaker 12: because as a parent myself, it's hard not to have
25:57
Speaker 12: your heart just break, you know, when you walk into
25:59
Speaker 12: the moork and you see that body lying on the table.
26:02
Speaker 12: But I know that I'm doing my best to hopefully
26:05
Speaker 12: bring justice for her, and so I know that my
26:08
Speaker 12: job is a going there and figure is out exactly
26:11
Speaker 12: what happened, try to provide evidence I can get the
26:13
Speaker 12: law enforcement hopefully, you know, bring her killer to justice.
26:16
Speaker 12: And so I have to focus on those things and
26:19
Speaker 12: try to turn off those emotions because if I, if
26:21
Speaker 12: I let those emotions creep in I couldn't do my job.
26:25
Speaker 1: Same same I find it very difficult at times to
26:29
Speaker 1: move forward in a felony trial when I was looking
26:33
Speaker 1: at the victims family on the front row, or using
26:35
Speaker 1: photos of the victim. When you determine trajectory path, which
26:40
Speaker 1: is very important in proving a case how it happened.
26:44
Speaker 1: Because look, I fight a lot with Greg Morris. That's
26:48
Speaker 1: because we're on two different sides. But what he is
26:51
Speaker 1: saying is what a defense attorneys say if they're a
26:54
Speaker 1: good one at trial. Okay, now, they will use as
26:59
Speaker 1: is allowed under the Constitution. They will use any tidbit
27:04
Speaker 1: of information to change the scenario, put out a different possibility,
27:09
Speaker 1: such as, hey, wait a minute, look at this trajectory path.
27:13
Speaker 1: Maybe she attacked him. I mean, I don't know. It's ridiculous, right,
27:17
Speaker 1: but it happens. So that is why you, the medical examiner,
27:23
Speaker 1: must keep a clear head and determine everything you can
27:28
Speaker 1: from the body. How do you go about determining, for instance,
27:32
Speaker 1: because it will come into play the trajectory path of
27:37
Speaker 1: the bullet that seared through her head? How do you
27:40
Speaker 1: do that? And I want you to be specific.
27:44
Speaker 12: Sure, Well, there are several things I can tell about
27:46
Speaker 12: a gunshot wound in the body. Mind you, the body's
27:49
Speaker 12: laying flat on the autopsy table. So based upon the
27:52
Speaker 12: physical characteristics of the wounds, I can tell you what
27:56
Speaker 12: is an entrance wound, what is an exit And then
27:59
Speaker 12: I can sometimes give you range of fire. So as
28:02
Speaker 12: a bullet leaves a gun with the bullet comes gas
28:07
Speaker 12: comes spent gunpowder particles, and those will strike the skin
28:11
Speaker 12: if the handgun is within three feet of the body.
28:13
Speaker 12: So if there are marks of close range fire, I
28:16
Speaker 12: can tell law enforcement that I see that on the body.
28:20
Speaker 12: Then of course I can track where the bullet goes
28:23
Speaker 12: through the body from how it enters on.
28:25
Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on. Did you think you could just
28:31
Speaker 1: blurt out things like I determine entry an exit and
28:34
Speaker 1: we're going to be happy with that. No, we're not
28:37
Speaker 1: happy with that. Explain how you determine what is the
28:41
Speaker 1: entry and what is the exit.
28:45
Speaker 11: Physical characteristics of the wound itself.
28:47
Speaker 12: So when a bullet comes out of a gun, you know,
28:49
Speaker 12: the rifling of the gun, whether it's a rifle or
28:51
Speaker 12: a handgun, imparts the spin upon the bullet. So oftentimes
28:54
Speaker 12: when a bullet enters a body without striking another target.
28:57
Speaker 12: First it will have a very well circumscribed entrance, and
29:02
Speaker 12: then as a travels smooth body.
29:04
Speaker 1: Smooth, okay, smoothin you're brilliant. We all know you're brilliant.
29:10
Speaker 1: Are you saying? In regular people talk, the entry is
29:13
Speaker 1: typically smooth and the exit is ragged.
29:18
Speaker 12: Yeah, well circumscribed you exactly so. And then when a
29:20
Speaker 12: bullet hits tissue at wobbles and has an irregular path
29:25
Speaker 12: through the body, so the exit wound is often more irregular,
29:29
Speaker 12: and as it comes out, it'll pull tissue with it.
29:32
Speaker 12: So there's characteristics that you can see in bone and
29:34
Speaker 12: tissue that allow me to say which way a bullet
29:37
Speaker 12: traveled through the body.
29:38
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on just a second. I want to follow
29:40
Speaker 1: up on what you're saying, doctor Coin, Greg Morse, I
29:44
Speaker 1: want you to look at this girl, look at Sheridan
29:50
Speaker 1: on your monitor. Greg. Right now we're talking about the smooth,
29:57
Speaker 1: which to me is diabolical to refer to a bullet
30:00
Speaker 1: entering your head as a smooth entry. But that's how
30:04
Speaker 1: it looks on the outside of most most bullet wound entries.
30:10
Speaker 1: But think of punching a paper bag when you come
30:14
Speaker 1: out the other side. Outcomes, her tissue, her brain matter,
30:19
Speaker 1: her blood, the flesh comes outward. We're talking about an
30:25
Speaker 1: eighteen year old girl, my little girl, Lucy, and my
30:29
Speaker 1: son John David, eighteen and now her parents have to
30:32
Speaker 1: deal with the entry and the exit wound in her head.
30:37
Speaker 1: And you actually try to blame the park, the lighting,
30:42
Speaker 1: the police officer, campus security, the university, fate free society.
30:48
Speaker 7: Really well, it's not a matter of blame. It's a
30:51
Speaker 7: matter of simple things that may have avoided this. That's
30:54
Speaker 7: all because the immigration isn't why this happened. These are
30:58
Speaker 7: simple things in society that time after time again just.
31:01
Speaker 4: Aren't being addressed.
31:03
Speaker 7: And you know again, you're at an expensive university, a
31:07
Speaker 7: common college place, and there's no one around. There's no
31:10
Speaker 7: one for a student to call for help. There's no
31:13
Speaker 7: one to do anything.
31:15
Speaker 1: And you're right, listen, I'm sorry, Greg, Why would she
31:18
Speaker 1: need to call for help? Oh, that's right, because a
31:21
Speaker 1: guy jumped out in a ski mask with a gun. Okay,
31:23
Speaker 1: I see, you're not getting you're gonna go down with
31:27
Speaker 1: the ship.
31:30
Speaker 4: That's interesting is they met.
31:32
Speaker 7: They matched apparently uh Medina with facial recognition software and
31:38
Speaker 7: photos from ices file. So it's interesting that this person's
31:42
Speaker 7: going around with rest warrants. They obviously have facial recognition
31:46
Speaker 7: software in this community, but it did nothing for that
31:49
Speaker 7: could have maybe stopped it before it got too violent.
31:52
Speaker 4: That's my only point.
31:53
Speaker 1: So you know, okay, Jamie, Mike Jamie, could you plays
31:59
Speaker 1: at ice. It's ices problem and facial recognition because they
32:05
Speaker 1: did not go out and find him there hiding in
32:08
Speaker 1: the bushes in his scheme mask. Doctor Thomas Coin, another question,
32:12
Speaker 1: when I refer to trajectory path, what is that and
32:16
Speaker 1: why is it significant when proving a criminal case? And
32:20
Speaker 1: to me, it's significant.
32:21
Speaker 12: So from the autopsy, I can tell you where a
32:23
Speaker 12: bullet passes through the body, so whether it entered in
32:26
Speaker 12: the back or the front, or the left or the
32:28
Speaker 12: right side, if it traveled upward or downward, and you
32:31
Speaker 12: can piece that information together with information on scene to
32:36
Speaker 12: try to figure out where a shooter mat.
32:38
Speaker 11: And standing at the time the gun was fired. So
32:42
Speaker 11: it allows you.
32:42
Speaker 1: To somehow when this really came to the forefront, Doctor Coin,
32:47
Speaker 1: do you remember you and I analyzing the testimony at
32:50
Speaker 1: the Alex Murdock trial because the defense was trying to
32:53
Speaker 1: claim that because of the trajectory path, the angle that
32:58
Speaker 1: the bullet entered Mag's body, and exited that the killer
33:03
Speaker 1: must have been really really short, something crazy like that
33:08
Speaker 1: in murdog is six foot something. Well, there's so many
33:12
Speaker 1: ways to explain the trajectory path. For instance, the killer
33:16
Speaker 1: could have been standing above the perp, above the victim.
33:20
Speaker 1: The victim could have already been down on the ground.
33:22
Speaker 1: It depends on the angle for all I know it.
33:26
Speaker 1: There's so many variables. But if you had that other
33:31
Speaker 1: evidence you were talking about, the corroborating evidence, such as
33:34
Speaker 1: an eyewitness, the trajectory path can then corroborate what the
33:39
Speaker 1: eyewitness says.
33:41
Speaker 12: Explain sure, So, I mean if an eyewitness says they
33:45
Speaker 12: saw the shooter standing behind the person who was shot,
33:48
Speaker 12: firing the weapon, and I'm doing the autopsy, and I
33:50
Speaker 12: show that the bullet entered the back of the head,
33:53
Speaker 12: you know, traveled back to front with a slight you know,
33:56
Speaker 12: left to right trajectory. You can piece that together with
34:00
Speaker 12: the eyewitness account of where they say the shooter was standing,
34:03
Speaker 12: and therefore it helps corroborate those pieces of evidence.
34:06
Speaker 10: Such a great soul, a warm soul, would do anything
34:11
Speaker 10: for you, just like the family.
34:13
Speaker 1: I'm WGN.
34:15
Speaker 2: Without warning, a masked man stepped out of the shadows,
34:19
Speaker 2: armed with a gun and moving toward.
34:21
Speaker 1: The group, joining us now tonight. Dan Corsantina a former
34:26
Speaker 1: police chief, former sheriff, US Homeland Security senior advisor, private
34:32
Speaker 1: investigator at dancorsantino dot com. Dan Corsantino, I'd like you
34:37
Speaker 1: to weigh in on Greg Morris blaming facial recognition not
34:44
Speaker 1: being used to apprehend Medina Medina earlier.
34:48
Speaker 8: Well, first of all, I want to lay a foundation.
34:52
Speaker 8: Jose Medina Medina is a criminal, and he came into
34:55
Speaker 8: this country illegally, and he committed acts which at one
35:01
Speaker 8: point can be deemed to be misdemeanors, but he escalated
35:05
Speaker 8: up to this horrific crime of murder. Simply put, He's
35:11
Speaker 8: a criminal. Second, the Chicago PD in this case took
35:17
Speaker 8: it and were very very comprehensive in working with US
35:23
Speaker 8: Customs and Border Control because they took the information they
35:27
Speaker 8: had from the eyewitness. They took the information after they
35:32
Speaker 8: matched the forty caliber showcasings, and they then had everything
35:39
Speaker 8: in play to present two Customs and Border Control, which
35:45
Speaker 8: then ran facial recognition. Immigration had this individual Medina Medina
35:51
Speaker 8: in the system, and clearly they brought back what was
35:57
Speaker 8: a positive identification of Medina Medina as the perpetrator in
36:05
Speaker 8: the horrific crime.
36:07
Speaker 1: How would facial recognition have helped if they couldn't find
36:11
Speaker 1: him Dan.
36:13
Speaker 8: Well, First of all, the facial recognition creates really a
36:18
Speaker 8: unique digital template which is compared to the database, and
36:24
Speaker 8: it stored and matched against other faces, hits, hints those
36:29
Speaker 8: individuals with ICE that were coming across the border that
36:33
Speaker 8: they stopped for whatever reason, perhaps a previous crime. They
36:38
Speaker 8: went into the database and then though AI artificial intelligence
36:45
Speaker 8: IDs that facihow recognition template, and what they really do
36:51
Speaker 8: is they measure the distances between the eyes, nose shapes,
36:55
Speaker 8: jaw lines, and they come up with what would appear
36:58
Speaker 8: to be a mathematical reporence representation. If they did not
37:03
Speaker 8: have that, they would have had to rely on the
37:06
Speaker 8: forensics of the weapon, possibly the DNA off of the gun,
37:12
Speaker 8: and or really really dug a little bit deeper to
37:16
Speaker 8: try and identify any other video CCTV surveillance that they
37:22
Speaker 8: had in this case. So it would have been very
37:25
Speaker 8: difficult without the facial recognition.
37:33
Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Gray, Sydney Sumner. We heard Greg
37:42
Speaker 1: Morris blaming the police and campus security and the university,
37:49
Speaker 1: But how is it thanks to the police that Medina.
37:53
Speaker 1: Medina was actually apprehended.
37:57
Speaker 5: Well, in conjunction with that facial recognition software, there was
38:01
Speaker 5: lots of surveillance footage that captured him before and after
38:05
Speaker 5: the shooting, and that footage tracked Medina all the way
38:09
Speaker 5: to his home. That's where he took that ski mask off,
38:13
Speaker 5: where that facial recognition came into play, so led him
38:19
Speaker 5: straight to where he lived, were able to recognize him
38:22
Speaker 5: off of previous ICE photos, and when they went in
38:25
Speaker 5: for the arrest, both the gun, the clothing and the
38:29
Speaker 5: ski mask that was worn and used during the commission
38:33
Speaker 5: of the shooting was recovered from Medina's home.
38:38
Speaker 1: So what about that, Greg Morris, I guess you're going
38:40
Speaker 1: to say the police planted it.
38:44
Speaker 4: No, I mean, you know, the one thing that what
38:47
Speaker 4: I don't know.
38:47
Speaker 7: It seems like the descriptions were somebody with a limp,
38:51
Speaker 7: walking with a limp in all black, So that's pretty
38:55
Speaker 7: generic stuff to get a search work on or something
38:59
Speaker 7: like that. But you know, it's too early to tell
39:02
Speaker 7: what the finer points of the investigation led to what
39:05
Speaker 7: the probable cause was to get any warrants, how the
39:08
Speaker 7: facial recognition plays in to this.
39:12
Speaker 4: But you know, this is my point.
39:14
Speaker 7: You know, whether it's facial recognition, license plate readers, law
39:17
Speaker 7: enforcement has a lot of tools to piece together what
39:20
Speaker 7: happened with these technologies from point of crime, backwards and
39:26
Speaker 7: forwards of the parties involved, and unfortunately, you know, it
39:31
Speaker 7: came too late for this young lady.
39:33
Speaker 4: And that's all my point is.
39:35
Speaker 7: You know, we should try to prohibit use these technologies
39:37
Speaker 7: to stop this instead of reacting to it like we
39:40
Speaker 7: do in America.
39:41
Speaker 1: So okay, so stop the shooting before it happens. Okay,
39:46
Speaker 1: note to self, Sidney Sumner. Yeah, we just hear Greg Morse,
39:50
Speaker 1: and it's it's important we listen to what he's saying
39:53
Speaker 1: because what he's say may very well be used as
39:56
Speaker 1: a defense trial. So what you do as a prosecutor
40:00
Speaker 1: you prepare your own case and then you anticipate what
40:03
Speaker 1: the other side is going to do and shoot it
40:06
Speaker 1: down before it becomes a problem. For instance, did police
40:12
Speaker 1: law enforcement have pc probable cause to enter Medina Medina's home,
40:17
Speaker 1: Because if they didn't, the ski mask, all the other
40:21
Speaker 1: evidence will be thrown out of trial because of fruit
40:27
Speaker 1: of the poisonous tree. A warrantless search without PC is
40:32
Speaker 1: disallowed and all of the fruit of that search the
40:35
Speaker 1: evidence also disallowed. So isn't it true that they saw
40:42
Speaker 1: him on various surveillance cameras leaving the scene running same outfit.
40:47
Speaker 1: They tracked him to his home and that is where
40:51
Speaker 1: he's caught taking the mask, the mask off and we
40:57
Speaker 1: see his face.
41:00
Speaker 5: That's absolutely correct. They have footage all the way to
41:04
Speaker 5: the inside of the lobby of the building where he lives,
41:08
Speaker 5: and that's where Medina stops, rips off the mask and
41:12
Speaker 5: they got that image of his face to later compare
41:15
Speaker 5: for facial recognition.
41:17
Speaker 1: Well, Greg Morris, who should I believe you are? My
41:19
Speaker 1: lion eyes?
41:21
Speaker 7: Well, you know, there's other aspects that could come about
41:24
Speaker 7: in a case as a defense, like I note this
41:27
Speaker 7: medine is in the hospital for tuberculosis. One of the
41:30
Speaker 7: side effects that tuberculosis is it could affect your mental state.
41:33
Speaker 7: Maybe there's some elements to this situation that involves that. Well, again,
41:38
Speaker 7: when you're as you know, if your mental state is
41:41
Speaker 7: not you don't know right from wrong. Because your mental
41:43
Speaker 7: state is you're mentally insane, whether temporarily or permanently.
41:47
Speaker 4: That's a defense. So you know, there are aspects.
41:51
Speaker 1: It's amazing you are it's doctor Thomas Coin. Do you
41:56
Speaker 1: know of a known link between tuberculosis and insanity?
42:01
Speaker 12: Well, the other way usually can cause that, as if
42:04
Speaker 12: you are a ccephalopathic from either severe disease or if
42:08
Speaker 12: you have spread actually into the brain. But uh, you know,
42:13
Speaker 12: I would argue, you know, the directed behavior of putting
42:16
Speaker 12: on an actual ski mask and going out and putting
42:18
Speaker 12: a crime shows that you're able to put two thoughts
42:21
Speaker 12: together as opposed to just being crazier acting in an
42:25
Speaker 12: encephalopathic state.
42:27
Speaker 11: What do I know?
42:29
Speaker 1: Now? Hold on, doctor Coin, When you throw around phrases
42:31
Speaker 1: like encephalactic, you mean encephalitis, which is I think swelling
42:37
Speaker 1: of the brain due to some sort of inflammation. And
42:39
Speaker 1: if you were that sick, would you really be running
42:42
Speaker 1: along the lakeside with a gun and a ski mask?
42:44
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you be in the hospital connect to some machine.
42:48
Speaker 11: Yeah, if you have directly you're going to have your brain.
42:52
Speaker 1: It never ends with this guy. What what did you say,
42:55
Speaker 1: doctor Corn I'm sorry, I.
42:57
Speaker 12: Said, if you have direct involvement of the brain, with tuberculosis,
43:01
Speaker 12: you're going to have a pretty significant brain swelling, which
43:05
Speaker 12: tends to put a person that bound rather than acting
43:09
Speaker 12: in a crazy like state. It depends upon not to
43:14
Speaker 12: get specific, but where the disease is involving the brain,
43:18
Speaker 12: but generally not associated with curriculosis.
43:21
Speaker 1: And doctor Colhen, we're giving that defense way too much attention.
43:25
Speaker 1: But you know what, actually you're right, because you know
43:27
Speaker 1: you get one crazy grr that might buy into the
43:30
Speaker 1: encephalitis tuberculosis medal insanity thing. Doctor Gerald Utter joining us,
43:36
Speaker 1: Doctor Utter. They parents are of course bereft, and they're
43:44
Speaker 1: somewhat blaming the school that the school didn't have safety precautions.
43:51
Speaker 1: I think they're coming from a place of extreme pain,
43:56
Speaker 1: extreme pain. What is your message? How I thought I
44:02
Speaker 1: knew it all about grief when my fiance was murdered,
44:04
Speaker 1: but now that I have the twins, I can't imagine
44:09
Speaker 1: what these parents are going through. What is your advice
44:15
Speaker 1: to them? Doctor?
44:16
Speaker 6: Take it one minute, one hour, one breath at a time.
44:21
Speaker 6: It feels you know. What we want to do is
44:23
Speaker 6: we want to not blame, but we want to we
44:26
Speaker 6: want to find a way to make it better for
44:30
Speaker 6: maybe other students. So if they're if they're pointing their
44:32
Speaker 6: attention to the university that that's an outlet of grief,
44:36
Speaker 6: it may also be a way to activate them to say,
44:38
Speaker 6: I don't want this to happen to anybody else. I
44:40
Speaker 6: don't want my daughter's life to have been like her
44:43
Speaker 6: life taken in vain. I want to kind of make
44:46
Speaker 6: sure I can create something, a legacy, something to change
44:50
Speaker 6: for the good, to protect other kids.
44:53
Speaker 5: I can't even imagine.
44:54
Speaker 6: There's no textbook answer, Nancy, there's no there's nothing that
44:58
Speaker 6: I can say, Hey, why don't you do this? Beca
45:00
Speaker 6: because it'll help you. I think they just have to
45:02
Speaker 6: surround themselves with people who love and support them. They
45:05
Speaker 6: have to take it one breath, one second, one minute,
45:08
Speaker 6: one hour, one day at a time, and they have
45:11
Speaker 6: to do what feels good for them. So down the road,
45:15
Speaker 6: if they want to participate in a bereavement group of
45:18
Speaker 6: other parents who have lost their children, if they want
45:21
Speaker 6: to engage in psychotherapy separately, not necessarily together, mom and
45:25
Speaker 6: dad can do it separately and then together. But again,
45:28
Speaker 6: I think the key message is we're in survival mode
45:31
Speaker 6: right now. They just have to do what feels good.
45:34
Speaker 6: For them, And when I say good, I mean that
45:36
Speaker 6: just allows them to take the next breath that allows
45:39
Speaker 6: them to hydrate, get something to eat. They just have
45:41
Speaker 6: to do whatever allows them to exist in this moment
45:45
Speaker 6: and to stay together as much as they can because
45:48
Speaker 6: we can't. We can't stay or monetize or figure out
45:52
Speaker 6: what's going to make them feel better. We just have
45:54
Speaker 6: to be there for them, and they have to serve
45:56
Speaker 6: themselves with people who love them.
46:00
Speaker 1: The parents, Thomas and Jessica Gorman, have flown to Chicago
46:04
Speaker 1: to collect their daughter's body. They gave a statement, our
46:07
Speaker 1: beloved daughter, Sheridan was taken from us this morning in Chicago.
46:12
Speaker 1: There is no way to soften this. This was murder.
46:17
Speaker 1: Sheridan was the light of our lives. She made people
46:21
Speaker 1: feel seen, safe and loved simply by being who she was.
46:27
Speaker 1: We trusted she would be safe. That trust was broken.
46:32
Speaker 1: They are demanding answers, and also I hear where they're
46:38
Speaker 1: coming from. Why was this guy still in the US?
46:42
Speaker 1: Why was he here to start with? If the school
46:45
Speaker 1: knew that students typically go on this walk. Not to
46:50
Speaker 1: give any credence to Greg Morris, but a broken clock
46:55
Speaker 1: is right twice a day. If they new students frequently
47:01
Speaker 1: take this walk, why wasn't their campus security? He is right,
47:07
Speaker 1: the university has tons of money. There's so many avenues
47:11
Speaker 1: to explore, but this is murder and her parents are grieving.
47:16
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Sheridan's murder,
47:21
Speaker 1: please dial three one two seven, four four eight two
47:24
Speaker 1: sixty three. Repeat three one two seven, four four eight
47:28
Speaker 1: two sixty three. Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,