Latest / Next Act with Jeff Ornstein / Stewart Lewis – Singer-Songwriter, Novelist & Filmmaker

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Stewart Lewis – Singer-Songwriter, Novelist & Filmmaker · Next Act with Jeff Ornstein

0:01
Jeff Ornstein: Hi everyone and welcome to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein.
0:05
Jeff Ornstein: I am Jeff, and on this show we celebrate people on the cusp of greatness.
0:10
Jeff Ornstein: Those building on past successes in some of the curious and inventive and sometimes unexpected ways they have achieved those, and stepping into moments that could define their legacy.
0:21
Jeff Ornstein: We'll talk about current projects, lessons learned, and the extraordinary opportunities ahead.
0:26
Jeff Ornstein: So the best is yet to come.
0:29
Jeff Ornstein: Today's guest is Stuart Lewis, singer, songwriter, novelist, music supervisor, and director, whose career spans music, film, and literature.
0:38
Jeff Ornstein: From founding the band Acoustic Junction to touring with artists like Sean Colvin and Annie DeFranco, Stuart has published multiple novels and now works across film and storytelling while teaching creative writing.
0:51
Jeff Ornstein: Welcome, Stuart.
0:52
Jeff Ornstein: Hey, thanks for having me.
0:54
Jeff Ornstein: Oh, it's my pleasure.
0:55
Jeff Ornstein: Okay, so to our listeners, this isn't a rare occasion, but for full disclosure, I know Stuart.
1:03
Jeff Ornstein: I usually don't know our guests.
1:05
Jeff Ornstein: So I have a history going back, I was trying to count.
1:08
Jeff Ornstein: It's a long time, maybe 40 years or so.
1:11
Jeff Ornstein: So I have seen him perform in venues with crowds cheering to some of his original music.
1:20
Jeff Ornstein: I've read his novels, and I've even had the uh privilege of uh performing in his first feature and uh one of his shorts.
1:30
Jeff Ornstein: So there's a little backstory here, but he was a great person to have for the podcast because he represents exactly what it's all about that you're never too old to jump into a new pond and build upon everything that your life's experiences have shown you and demonstrated to you and create something new.
1:51
Jeff Ornstein: And for you, it's definitely storytelling, I think.
1:55
Jeff Ornstein: What do you think?
1:56
Stewart Lewis: Oh, for sure, yeah, for sure.
1:58
Stewart Lewis: That word gets thrown around a lot, and some people don't like using that word.
2:02
Stewart Lewis: Like, I'm a storyteller, but like it is what it is, like it is what we do anyway, so I don't mind it.
2:10
Jeff Ornstein: Okay.
2:11
Jeff Ornstein: Well, your your lyrics stole told stories, and surely your your novels told stories.
2:17
Jeff Ornstein: I mean, and you have a real following of readership, and in having read some of your scripts you you you've you know created, they're all about complex stories and the layering of characters.
2:30
Jeff Ornstein: So I know your family was very musically involved and very inclined and skilled.
2:38
Jeff Ornstein: Were were they the S-word?
2:41
Jeff Ornstein: Were they storytellers?
2:44
Stewart Lewis: Um not necessarily.
2:46
Stewart Lewis: They were more telling other people's stories.
2:48
Stewart Lewis: We, you know, they did a lot of covers and, you know, John Prine and uh a lot of country and folk kind of stuff.
2:56
Stewart Lewis: So they were more performers and sort of, I guess, I guess, conduits of telling other people's songs, telling the stories of other people.
3:05
Stewart Lewis: Yeah.
3:06
Stewart Lewis: It was our generation that started writing our own material and telling our own stories.
3:12
Jeff Ornstein: Right.
3:12
Jeff Ornstein: And your brother is uh writes his own material too, right?
3:15
Stewart Lewis: Yeah, yeah.
3:16
Stewart Lewis: He's a Grammy nominated songwriter and still doing doing it.
3:20
Stewart Lewis: And um, yeah, he he's he's amazing.
3:23
Jeff Ornstein: Was there a particular event that prompted you to say, you know, I'm gonna put uh singing and and writing and performance on the back burner bullet because I want to focus on my writing?
3:34
Jeff Ornstein: I mean, what was the genesis of that morphing from performer to writer?
3:38
Stewart Lewis: Well, I got had some success as a songwriter.
3:41
Stewart Lewis: I was touring with these acts that I was like, some of them were my heroes, and I loved it.
3:46
Stewart Lewis: And then I went to LA and I thought, oh, I'm gonna be a rock star.
3:50
Stewart Lewis: I ended up getting a a record deal at a smaller independent label, but it ended up being really difficult.
3:57
Stewart Lewis: So I thought, I'll just be a writer instead.
4:00
Stewart Lewis: That's a great idea because no one's trying to be a writer.
4:03
Stewart Lewis: But yeah, so it was sort of like a backup plan that was like, that's not really a backup plan.
4:09
Stewart Lewis: That's sort of another like dream.
4:11
Stewart Lewis: I decided to go to school for creative writing um and got my master's, and I ended up selling my first novel like right out of graduating there.
4:20
Stewart Lewis: So it ended up being a good career path because I got more yeses in that world than I was getting at the time as a singer.
4:29
unknown: Right.
4:29
Jeff Ornstein: Well, we guys are in like validation, right?
4:31
Jeff Ornstein: Exactly.
4:32
Jeff Ornstein: I mean, you your novels sell, you know, they're not just produced with a limited run, and then that's the end of it.
4:38
Jeff Ornstein: I mean, you do you have a following?
4:39
Jeff Ornstein: Do you think you have readers that keep coming back to you?
4:42
Jeff Ornstein: Because you you you have a theme that, you know, the which is your characters, I think.
4:46
Stewart Lewis: Yeah.
4:47
Stewart Lewis: I mean, I it's a coming of age sort of theme, and it's uh more modern and not, you know, there's not zombies or apocalypses or anything like that.
4:56
Stewart Lewis: But yeah, I did for a while.
4:57
Stewart Lewis: I mean, I still do, but for a while when I was on Random House, I had a couple of books, one of which was sold to five countries.
5:05
Stewart Lewis: And so, you know, I always say I'm huge in France, I'm also really big in Brazil for some reason.
5:11
Stewart Lewis: But yeah, I I did have there was a while that I had a pretty big following um in the YA world, which is for like 12 and up.
5:20
Stewart Lewis: But yeah, the other books, you know, you just try to find your audiences within them.
5:25
Stewart Lewis: But I was able to kind of create a little bit of a career there for a while with Random House, and I'm very grateful for that.
5:32
Jeff Ornstein: Did you see a film or did a friend suggest to you and say your stories need to come to life or they should come to life and they should they should the story should become a screenplay and it should be, you know, on the silver screen.
5:44
Jeff Ornstein: How did how did that genesis and morph into it?
5:47
Stewart Lewis: Well, I got a lot of a lot of initial feedback from my editors.
5:51
Stewart Lewis: They would use the word cinematic when describing my writing.
5:54
Stewart Lewis: I mean, I think it's kind of a goal of every writer to sort of see it realized on the screen.
5:59
Stewart Lewis: So I always had that dream of like seeing that realized.
6:05
Stewart Lewis: And our mutual friend, uh Linda Yellen, is a great director and producer.
6:11
Stewart Lewis: And I sort of like, you know, every time I put out a book, I was like, here, Linda, what about this one?
6:15
Stewart Lewis: Here, what about this one?
6:16
Jeff Ornstein: Why not?
6:17
Stewart Lewis: And then, and then she finally was like, We're doing this.
6:21
Stewart Lewis: And I was like, Okay, I'll believe it when I actually see it.
6:25
Stewart Lewis: But I, as you know, got to see it.
6:27
Stewart Lewis: You were on the set too.
6:29
Stewart Lewis: And it was one of the best weeks of my life.
6:33
Stewart Lewis: Like uh going there and seeing the characters exactly how I pictured them, saying my lines with a crew of 50 people.
6:41
Stewart Lewis: You know, we were we were employing the whole town in New Jersey, you know.
6:47
Stewart Lewis: I mean, it was it was a special thing.
6:50
Stewart Lewis: And I was like, I freaking did this.
6:52
Stewart Lewis: Like I created it.
6:53
Stewart Lewis: And Linda said at one point during a staff meal with the whole crew and everything, which was really sweet, she said, you know, Stewart has the hardest job.
7:02
Stewart Lewis: He's the one who started with a blank piece of paper, you know, and and it's true, you know, it's true, and it is, you know, I felt very honored to to have all of these people come together to make it, including you.
7:16
Jeff Ornstein: Well, I was happy to be there.
7:18
Jeff Ornstein: And she's right, because I mean, not only did you write the story, you created the whole world, the whole environment that took place.
7:24
Jeff Ornstein: And to that point, also, the casting was superb.
7:27
Jeff Ornstein: I mean, I don't know what your vision was for each character, but I you know, I can't imagine anyone else playing those characters.
7:34
Jeff Ornstein: They just blended so well.
7:36
Jeff Ornstein: So it was I yeah, I thought it was pretty seamless and it really came together nicely.
7:41
Jeff Ornstein: Yeah.
7:42
Jeff Ornstein: So I understand you're working on another feature or or more, perhaps.
7:46
Jeff Ornstein: I don't I don't know everything.
7:48
Stewart Lewis: Yeah, I kind of caught the bug with this one.
7:51
Stewart Lewis: Good or bad, I caught the bug because I got to co-produce and work on the music, which is amazing, and I decided to try and do it myself.
8:00
Stewart Lewis: So I made a short, which you led your talents to.
8:03
Stewart Lewis: And then I recently just shot a second short, which is starring Priya Ferguson from a little show you might have heard of called Stranger Things.
8:11
Stewart Lewis: Yeah, she's like a global star.
8:14
Stewart Lewis: So that was amazing to see that come together, and we're in post-production for that.
8:19
Stewart Lewis: And the next step will be to try and make a feature that I've been developing over about three years now, which I know you've read some drafts of and you liked.
8:29
Stewart Lewis: I've gotten really great feedback for it, and I feel like that's sort of like the culmination of this sort of pivoting into the film world is like being able to make my own feature.
8:39
Stewart Lewis: Whether or not I executive produce it or direct it, I just want to be able to say I I I wrote a feature and it it became a film.
8:48
Jeff Ornstein: So we'll see what happens.
8:50
Jeff Ornstein: So you spoke about how like when you write a book, and a lot of writers say their dream is to see it actualized in a film.
8:57
Jeff Ornstein: But when you're starting writing a screenplay, I would imagine are you seeing the film in your head while you're writing?
9:05
Jeff Ornstein: Is is the process a little bit reversed than writing a book?
9:08
Stewart Lewis: Yeah, it's totally different.
9:09
Stewart Lewis: A book is sort of like diving deep into the moments.
9:13
Stewart Lewis: I used the metaphor of like a Google map.
9:16
Stewart Lewis: When you go like this and you go into the map, that's like more of where your novel is.
9:21
Stewart Lewis: You're seeing all the nuances, the trees, the buildings, the descriptions, blah, blah, blah.
9:26
Stewart Lewis: Whereas in a screenplay, you kind of have to pick the the exact the moments and have the audiences sort of fill in all of the backstory.
9:36
Jeff Ornstein: Interesting.
9:37
Stewart Lewis: And you're also writing for everyone in a screenplay.
9:39
Stewart Lewis: I mean, people say, you know, oh, I have great dialogue.
9:42
Stewart Lewis: If you that's great if you have great dialogue, but that doesn't mean you can write a screenplay because you have to, you're writing for the lightning designer, you're writing for the production designer, you're writing for the actors in terms of blocking, you're writing for everyone.
9:54
Stewart Lewis: It's every page on a screenplay should have elements for everyone involved.
10:00
Stewart Lewis: So I'm learning a lot more about it.
10:03
Stewart Lewis: Um, and it's uh not necessarily easier, but I find it really thrilling because it's just a different, you know, it's like your podcast is all about.
10:14
Stewart Lewis: It's like pivoting into different things at different ages.
10:18
Stewart Lewis: You know, it feels fresh and new to me.
10:21
Stewart Lewis: It's like I I'm uh I'm a creative, like I'll always be creative, but like I've done music for so long, I've done writing books for so long.
10:28
Stewart Lewis: Now I'm in this whole world of film, and it just feels like a fresh, new way to be creative.
10:35
Stewart Lewis: And I also love the collaboration aspect of it because writing a novel is very like singular.
10:41
Stewart Lewis: It's like you and your laptop for like three months.
10:44
Stewart Lewis: The collaboration is so great.
10:46
Stewart Lewis: I mean, I I had a crew on this short of uh like 23 people, and they were the best crew ever.
10:52
Stewart Lewis: And it's nice when everyone comes together.
10:55
Stewart Lewis: I'm sure you're used to that in your work of collaborating.
10:58
Stewart Lewis: I love that aspect about it as well.
11:00
Jeff Ornstein: That's fantastic.
11:01
Jeff Ornstein: So you've directed three, two, three, three films?
11:05
Jeff Ornstein: Two.
11:05
Jeff Ornstein: Two.
11:06
Jeff Ornstein: So that's also another tangent that you're getting into.
11:10
Jeff Ornstein: How did you learn the skills to like jump into the directing pool?
11:15
Jeff Ornstein: Because that is, you know, working with equipment, the camera, the lighting.
11:20
Jeff Ornstein: I can see writing a segue into screenplay, or and certainly writing for songs, writing for novel, writing for screenplay, but directing's a whole new bag.
11:29
Jeff Ornstein: So how'd you get the courage or the or the gumption to jump into that?
11:35
Stewart Lewis: You know, it was something I kind of learned by the seat of my pants, and I was lucky.
11:39
Stewart Lewis: I mean, I think you, knowing you as a friend, you could also jump into something like that because I mean, 90% of it is about reading people, you know, and about being able to uh, you know, kind of massage situations or bringing out the best of people, right?
11:58
Stewart Lewis: And being a leader and being supportive and being, you know, someone that people can feel comfortable around.
12:05
Stewart Lewis: That's like 90% of it.
12:07
Stewart Lewis: Make people comfortable and be a great supportive leader and understand the nuances of people, right?
12:14
Stewart Lewis: Like we've been around all this world a long time, like we understand, you know, when something's going wrong with someone.
12:21
Stewart Lewis: So it's about reading the room, getting your vision across and picking the right people to help with that.
12:29
Stewart Lewis: I mean, the DP is a huge person, director of photography is shooting the whole film.
12:34
Stewart Lewis: The DP is like a huge person that has to understand your vision.
12:37
Stewart Lewis: And then the AD, which is the assistant director, is the one that's sort of like the sergeant, you know, that's like rallying all the troops and getting everything done.
12:46
Stewart Lewis: So you pick those two people, and then you're just sort of here answering all the questions and trying to be like a gracious person, you know.
12:57
Stewart Lewis: Like you know, you you and I know Linda, like she's one of the most gracious, authentic, amazing people.
13:03
Stewart Lewis: Like, I think being a director is at first and foremost, it's just being like a cool person, to put it really simply.
13:10
Jeff Ornstein: You're the maestro for so many different artisans, and yeah, you know, I mean the best way to rally the troops, you know, the more bees with honey, right?
13:19
Jeff Ornstein: It's it's very true.
13:19
Jeff Ornstein: And and and with when it came to Linda was like make her proud because she was she was so encouraging from it to everyone.
13:25
Jeff Ornstein: And I watched her, you know, communicate with lots of different people on the set, and she she was the same with everyone, you know.
13:31
Jeff Ornstein: Yes, very supportive.
13:32
Jeff Ornstein: So right now, I know you spend your time between Nantucket and Barcelona, but you also spend some time down in Nashville.
13:39
Jeff Ornstein: Now that's a little off the beaten track.
13:43
Jeff Ornstein: So was there inspiration to be found there?
13:46
Jeff Ornstein: I mean, because the culture is very and you're and you're from Massachusetts, I should add.
13:49
Stewart Lewis: Yes.
13:50
Jeff Ornstein: Was there a a culture shot there, or was there something about that culture that you might and you know bring into your your creative works?
13:58
Stewart Lewis: Yeah, at first Nashville can be very overwhelming because it's literally like everyone and their mother and their cousin is like a singer-songwriter.
14:07
Stewart Lewis: There's I mean, literally like hundreds of thousands of singer-songwriters.
14:11
Stewart Lewis: But there's so much talent there.
14:14
Stewart Lewis: So I got to work with a bunch of people for the One Stupid Thing movie and also for my short.
14:20
Stewart Lewis: And it was like so easy to sort of there's such a wonderful connection of people there.
14:26
Stewart Lewis: It's not like Los Angeles where people, you know, where you can't get access to people.
14:31
Stewart Lewis: Like you can get like a meeting with Jolly Parton.
14:34
Stewart Lewis: You could walk in like in music row, like everything's open.
14:37
Stewart Lewis: You could walk into a record company and go to one of the biggest songwriters, Shay McNally, his office is like you can see him through the window.
14:44
Stewart Lewis: It's very accessible and people aren't like, don't touch me.
14:48
Stewart Lewis: You know, like it's so in that way I found it pretty amazing.
14:51
Stewart Lewis: And the talent, I mean, even the guy at the airport is like amazing.
14:56
Stewart Lewis: You walk by the airport, and there's like some guy singing and like some girls crying, like in her beer.
15:02
Stewart Lewis: There's so much talent everywhere there.
15:05
Stewart Lewis: So it can be overwhelming, but it was also really interesting to be in that world for a while.
15:10
Stewart Lewis: And I posted a couple of concerts on our rooftop and had some really wonderful community sort of gatherings there, and it was a good experience.
15:19
Stewart Lewis: My husband ran NPR there for about 10 years, and uh, we've since uh left Nashville, but I'm sure we'll go back and visit.
15:27
Jeff Ornstein: That's nice.
15:27
Jeff Ornstein: We have nice memories that will draw you back because you've had success in the different fields that you've done in in performance and in writing and and in screenwriting uh and and directing because Cookies was wonderful.
15:40
Jeff Ornstein: Thank you.
15:41
Jeff Ornstein: Which I should point out that's the first short he directed, and it has got a dream-like quality to it, and it's a story as old as time and yet fresh and new.
15:49
Jeff Ornstein: What is some of the advice that you might give to young persons that are moving into a new creative film, whether it's any of those film, music, or writing, and what mindset will help them succeed in the battles or the challenges?
16:03
Jeff Ornstein: Do you have any great words of wisdom for people?
16:06
Stewart Lewis: I read a piece recently about this woman who started figure skating at age 50.
16:11
Stewart Lewis: And I think it was in the New Yorker.
16:14
Stewart Lewis: It was so inspiring.
16:15
Stewart Lewis: But there's also a book uh written by the woman who wrote Eat Pray Love, Elizabeth Gilbert.
16:23
Stewart Lewis: I always thought it should have been eat, fuck, sleep, but that's a whole nother thing.
16:27
Stewart Lewis: But anyway, she wrote a book about creativity, and it's incredible, but that's a whole nother thing.
16:33
Stewart Lewis: But I I always go back to if I may quote Mary Oliver, she has a line that says, The world offers itself to your imagination.
16:41
Stewart Lewis: So it's like you get out of bed and your mind is open and you know that there is so much possibility.
16:48
Stewart Lewis: It's like, yes, I want to make a feature, but who knows?
16:51
Stewart Lewis: Maybe after that I'll go to outer space.
16:53
Stewart Lewis: Like life is too short and often confined by the trappings of our mind or the conventions that we think we can't do that.
17:02
Stewart Lewis: But the truth is, anything can happen.
17:04
Stewart Lewis: If you love it and you do it, other people will love it too.
17:08
Stewart Lewis: Right.
17:09
Stewart Lewis: Because that's something that they can't deny.
17:11
Stewart Lewis: And even if you don't, you're following your bliss.
17:14
Stewart Lewis: You know, like I had a friend in Nashville who always said, be nimble.
17:18
Stewart Lewis: You know, nimble was her favorite word.
17:20
Stewart Lewis: She's be nimble, you know, and then pivot was a big word for COVID.
17:24
Stewart Lewis: I still think it's a great word.
17:26
Stewart Lewis: But, you know, try something new, even if it's scary at first.
17:30
Stewart Lewis: And that's that's how you can build sort of a life without regrets, if that's even possible.
17:36
Jeff Ornstein: You know, that's a common thread in these podcasts because we are talking about taking leaps and making changes.
17:43
Jeff Ornstein: And you have to be courageous and you can't be fearful of falling or of rejection.
17:49
Jeff Ornstein: And you have to just say, Yeah, I love this.
17:52
Jeff Ornstein: I love being a writer, I love being an actor, I love being a director.
17:56
Jeff Ornstein: And yeah, I'm gonna fail or I'm gonna be rejected, but I'm gonna keep doing it.
17:59
Jeff Ornstein: Yeah.
18:00
Jeff Ornstein: And because it's my passion.
18:02
Jeff Ornstein: And it it's it's it's the people who say, I won't be deterred by commentary around me and the buzz around me.
18:10
Jeff Ornstein: I'm gonna do what my heart and my brain and my soul are telling me to do.
18:14
Jeff Ornstein: Exactly.
18:14
Jeff Ornstein: And I think it's really important because people, you know, it's one thing in your 20s to say, I'm gonna run off to Hollywood and be a star, or I'm gonna run off to Nashville and be a star.
18:24
Jeff Ornstein: But you know, when you're later on in years, you know, people think all my decisions are this is my golden years, and I have to, you know, be cautious and everything.
18:33
Jeff Ornstein: And you don't.
18:34
Jeff Ornstein: No, you can you can be as adventurous as you want.
18:37
Jeff Ornstein: Yeah, and it's a common theme that we hear people saying, just jump into it.
18:41
Jeff Ornstein: And and you'll also find your pillars of support, the people around you that believe in you.
18:47
Jeff Ornstein: Yeah, so that's really important too.
18:49
Jeff Ornstein: That you surround yourself with positivity because our industry, all of them, which we've spoken about, the non-industry folks might think is really cutthroat and competitive, is not.
19:00
Jeff Ornstein: There's a lot of support in our within our industry.
19:03
Stewart Lewis: For sure.
19:04
Stewart Lewis: You remind me what you you were just saying, there's one quote from Alan Ginsburg that I love, which is in order to find your voice, you have to forget about it being heard.
19:12
Stewart Lewis: And it's sort of like that, you know, if you're worried about what other people are gonna think, then you're not gonna be authentic in your, you know, you want to just do your art.
19:22
Stewart Lewis: I always tell my students, like, just do it and don't think about who's gonna read this.
19:27
Stewart Lewis: Like, is my neighbor gonna read this or is my is my sister gonna see this?
19:31
Stewart Lewis: My first novel, I was like, my mother could never, I was like, my mother's not reading this.
19:35
Stewart Lewis: And and my editor said that means it's good.
19:38
Stewart Lewis: And he she ended up reading it, and there were blowjobs and other things.
19:43
Stewart Lewis: But like, you know, she loved it, you know, and you read it too.
19:48
Jeff Ornstein: There's a lot of gratuitous nudity, as I recall.
19:50
Jeff Ornstein: You spend me spellbound to the page turner.
19:56
Jeff Ornstein: Okay, as always, historically, we've gone over time because I'm a talker and you're a talker.
20:05
Jeff Ornstein: And I told my production people, we're gonna go over, just don't even give me a you know, it's not gonna work.
20:12
Jeff Ornstein: So it's I knew we would have fun.
20:15
Jeff Ornstein: All of our guests have fun, but since we've got a history which is very unusual again, as I said, that we would have a good laugh, and you shared some really great insights because you've really, you know, you've achieved certain levels of success in a lot of different creative fields, and you're really kind of tying them all together.
20:30
Jeff Ornstein: So it's really important.
20:31
Jeff Ornstein: People say, hey, you know what?
20:33
Jeff Ornstein: Stuart did it, he believed in himself.
20:35
Jeff Ornstein: His last name isn't Goldwyn Meyer.
20:38
Jeff Ornstein: You know, you can do it if you want to do it.
20:41
Jeff Ornstein: So thanks for joining us.
20:43
Jeff Ornstein: I hope to see you sometime soon, perhaps maybe in the summertime.
20:47
Jeff Ornstein: Yes.
20:47
Jeff Ornstein: And good luck with your your new project.
20:49
Jeff Ornstein: Okay.
20:50
Jeff Ornstein: Thanks, Jeff.
20:51
Jeff Ornstein: Thanks for tuning in to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein.
20:54
Jeff Ornstein: Follow, subscribe, and stay connected to your favorite socials at www.nextdackpodcast.com.
21:01
Jeff Ornstein: Keep chasing your next act.
21:04
Jeff Ornstein: The best is yet to come.