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56. Fathers, Masculinity & Healing Through Family Constellations with Marco Navarro · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Kiona and welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:03
  Tracy: I'm your host, Tracy Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators for and clients from around the world, looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:33
  Tracy: Key order everyone.
• 0:34
  Tracy: Welcome to Constellations and all that.
• 0:37
  Tracy: Today I have the pleasure of chatting with Marco Navarro.
• 0:42
  Tracy: I'm trying to, trying to roll my Rs there.
• 0:45
  Tracy: Didn't do a very good job.
• 0:46
  Tracy: Nowhere as near as good as Marco does.
• 0:49
  Tracy: Um, when we were just practicing his last name, I had the pleasure of meeting Marco.
• 0:54
  Tracy: Just recently in Mexico in Meida, which is, uh, where the ISCA conference was.
• 1:01
  Tracy: So I'm gonna pass over to you, Marco, and just let you invite you to share just a little bit about you, whatever you want to say.
• 1:11
  Marco: Okay.
• 1:12
  Marco: Thank you Tracy.
• 1:13
  Marco: It's a real pleasure to be here talking to you.
• 1:16
  Marco: I really enjoy our, uh, meeting in Merida.
• 1:19
  Marco: It was really great for me being able to be at your workshop and, uh, not only like with the translation, but uh, you know, the energy you have when you're working.
• 1:30
  Marco: It was so beautiful.
• 1:31
  Marco: The connection of the drums and the connection to the mountains and the rivers.
• 1:37
  Marco: Mm-hmm.
• 1:37
  Marco: I still have that with me.
• 1:39
  Marco: Every day.
• 1:39
  Marco: Thank you very much.
• 1:41
  Marco: Well, a a little bit about me.
• 1:43
  Marco: I've been, uh, doing constellations now for more than 20 years.
• 1:48
  Marco: I started really young.
• 1:49
  Marco: I was, uh, the youngest of my generation at that time.
• 1:52
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 1:53
  Tracy: And
• 1:53
  Marco: you know, it was those times when, when you started to do a constellation and you invited people and everybody was like, what's that?
• 2:00
  Marco: I mean, it still happens today, but at that time it was really something, you know, like, so everybody was, was like that.
• 2:07
  Marco: So.
• 2:09
  Marco: It was kind of hard, right?
• 2:10
  Marco: To explain in five minutes or less what was a constellation.
• 2:14
  Marco: So at that time it was most, uh, for most people, uh, uh, going just this act of fate of going to work in therapy.
• 2:23
  Marco: But, uh, I really appreciate how it has been moving from those times.
• 2:27
  Marco: Now, most, most people at least know about it or have listened about it.
• 2:32
  Marco: And so it's a total different, different times.
• 2:36
  Marco: So yeah, that's, that's basically I have the opportunity to, uh, learn with many teachers that, uh, well, at, at that time I had the opportunity to be with Bear Hellinger at her.
• 2:47
  Marco: And then, uh, many of his, uh, first line students, I had the opportunity to assist to his, their, their workshops too.
• 2:55
  Marco: And, uh.
• 2:56
  Marco: You know, like, um, I'm, I'm really happy and I, I really thankful of, uh, having this tool in my life.
• 3:03
  Marco: 'cause it totally changed, uh, a lot, a lot of my life.
• 3:08
  Marco: So I'm really thankful with very Helen for this tool.
• 3:11
  Marco: And, uh, on all the teachers and the clients that, uh, trust, you know, assisting to, uh, one of these, uh, sessions, which is, uh, it's, uh, quite an adventure.
• 3:21
  Marco: I always tell them that, uh, it's like, uh, we.
• 3:25
  Marco: Uh, take our hands and, uh, go inside the cave to try to find a miniature together.
• 3:32
  Marco: So when we go together, it's less scary and it's, uh, easier to get inside.
• 3:37
  Marco: And also, the other thing I love about constellations for me is like this ancient gathering around the fire.
• 3:44
  Marco: You know, the circle, you, you get around the circle and you start, uh.
• 3:48
  Marco: Telling your stories, stories of your families, stories of your ancestors, and I think that's, that's just a healing thing, you know, just gathering together with the same intention.
• 4:00
  Marco: I think it's, uh, it's such a beautiful thing.
• 4:02
  Marco: So yeah, that's like basically part of my, my, my path.
• 4:08
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 4:09
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 4:10
  Tracy: I totally agree.
• 4:10
  Tracy: The fire.
• 4:12
  Tracy: I share with people in my workshop, and I think I did at the, um, at that, for me it's like every, you know, we all come from people of the farm, right?
• 4:21
  Tracy: We all come from that original circle of people on the, it is taking us back to those times energetically.
• 4:31
  Tracy: Um, and in a mo in a modern way, but in a way that we can access that ancient wisdom as well.
• 4:37
  Tracy: That's beautiful.
• 4:40
  Marco: Yeah, I lo I love, I love this.
• 4:42
  Marco: Sorry, this, uh, who was this?
• 4:44
  Marco: Um, it was a, a student from Carl Jung.
• 4:46
  Marco: I forgot his name, but he used to say that, uh, the therapists now are like the, we are like the remnants of the, the priests and then from the first medicine men and medicine woman.
• 5:00
  Marco: Like, that's the work we, we carry on, you know, like it's the, the work of, uh, holding society one by one.
• 5:10
  Marco: So I really like that, uh, that uh, connection to, to the past.
• 5:16
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 5:17
  Tracy: Yeah, me too.
• 5:19
  Tracy: Very much so.
• 5:21
  Tracy: I had the pleasure of having you be my translator in Mexico and for.
• 5:29
  Tracy: I'll give, I'll try and set the scene for those who are listening to understand, um, 'cause you just, you came to the workshop and you didn't realize that you were gonna be my, kind of threw you in the deep end, but I had witnessed you translating at other, other workshops throughout the week as well.
• 5:45
  Tracy: Then we were working through the session and I used my drum and I used my voice I tone, and I'd set up an exercise.
• 5:55
  Tracy: So mine was much more of an experiential workshop, more than theory.
• 6:00
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 6:00
  Tracy: And um, and then halfway through my microphone, my headset decided not to work.
• 6:06
  Tracy: And I said to you, you're gonna have to be my microphone Marco.
• 6:10
  Tracy: And you were, you were.
• 6:10
  Tracy: So, I just loved that.
• 6:13
  Tracy: Every time I moved, you moved with me.
• 6:15
  Tracy: It was like you were really there at sequence.
• 6:19
  Tracy: Every time I turned around or I took a step forward, you were like my shadow, and it was just, I just have to say it was so comforting and so easeful to work alongside you in that way.
• 6:32
  Tracy: I really, really appreciate that.
• 6:34
  Marco: Thank you very much.
• 6:35
  Marco: Thank you.
• 6:35
  Marco: You know, you know, I, I really enjoyed that, that also that experience for, 'cause you know, it's, uh, for me, when somebody's working on the field is the respect to the field and the respect who, who, for the person who's holding the field.
• 6:50
  Marco: 'cause I know what that means.
• 6:51
  Marco: So I know that when you're there.
• 6:53
  Marco: You were holding all these people, all this energy, and also when you, well, for me, it's when you bring the drum, you're bringing more, more, much more than that, you know?
• 7:02
  Marco: Mm-hmm.
• 7:03
  Marco: Like, uh, the drum is the heart.
• 7:04
  Marco: So, so first of that, first of all, is to be respectful of the person who's leading, respectful of the space.
• 7:11
  Marco: And then it is just to be able to be, uh, at your service.
• 7:17
  Marco: You know, it's like being able to be at your service.
• 7:19
  Marco: So I really like that because I, I learned more, uh, from you and, and at the beginning it was hard for me, you know, like this kind of putting my ego aside, you know, like my mind saying, what's this?
• 7:32
  Marco: Or, you know, any, any questions that come, just being able to say to the mind like, Hey, this, this is not your time.
• 7:38
  Marco: We will think about it later.
• 7:40
  Marco: This, this moment is we are just, uh, uh, in this, uh.
• 7:44
  Marco: Channeling, like in a constellation, like, uh, we're just like at this, um, center, we're just channeling.
• 7:50
  Marco: And, uh, later, later, later we talk.
• 7:53
  Marco: So that was really nice.
• 7:54
  Marco: And, and I also think like what you were doing there, 'cause as you say, it was more experiential.
• 8:00
  Marco: I know when, I don't know.
• 8:02
  Marco: I, I like to think that when you open the field, you work in many levels.
• 8:07
  Marco: So also you as, uh, the facilitator and, and me as the translator, we were representing something.
• 8:15
  Marco: So, you know, when you, when you don't know what's that, it's better to be humble to the field than just do what, what it ask you to do and just flow with it.
• 8:25
  Marco: So, thank you very much.
• 8:26
  Marco: Yeah,
• 8:27
  Tracy: yeah.
• 8:28
  Tracy: Well that was great.
• 8:29
  Tracy: It was, you know, you never know how that dance is gonna go.
• 8:32
  Tracy: Right.
• 8:33
  Tracy: Um, with the translation and the.
• 8:35
  Tracy: Because I'm in the process myself as a facilitator, and, and that worked really well, but we had had an interaction much earlier on.
• 8:44
  Tracy: Through different things through a, a moment.
• 8:47
  Tracy: Uh, I think on the first day I had, um, you and I had had a lovely conversation outside the dining room.
• 8:53
  Tracy: We were, yeah.
• 8:54
  Tracy: The connection was a bit of downtime and we had that connection, so it was really cool that you ended up being my translator.
• 9:00
  Tracy: So really impact on, thank you very much.
• 9:03
  Tracy: How did you come to Constellations?
• 9:05
  Tracy: What or how
• 9:06
  Marco: did Constellations find you?
• 9:09
  Marco: Oh, it was so cool.
• 9:10
  Marco: I was really young and, and I wanted to be an actor at that time.
• 9:14
  Marco: So I was, uh, studying, uh, acting.
• 9:17
  Marco: And, uh, I had a friend who, she was like the first generation of constellations in, in Mexico, and she always told me to, to, to assist to a constellation.
• 9:27
  Marco: And I was like, yeah, someday, someday.
• 9:29
  Marco: And she was like, it would, it would like you 'cause it looks like theater.
• 9:32
  Marco: It's like something like theater.
• 9:34
  Marco: Uh, it was like, okay, so one and uh, one day.
• 9:37
  Marco: Another friend, she was going to a constellation and she was going with somebody, but the person who was uh, accompanying here was not able to go.
• 9:46
  Marco: So she told me, do you have time to go?
• 9:48
  Marco: And I say, okay, let's just go and see what's this about.
• 9:52
  Marco: And when I was there, wow.
• 9:54
  Marco: My, my mind was blown.
• 9:55
  Marco: Like it was, it was too much to digest.
• 9:58
  Marco: 'cause the first thing, it was like, damn, this is like theater, but this is real.
• 10:03
  Marco: I mean, the lady crying there, she's not reading a script, you know, she's not acting.
• 10:08
  Marco: It's her life.
• 10:09
  Marco: It's her experience.
• 10:10
  Marco: So that was the first thing that caught me.
• 10:12
  Marco: But then also since I was a child, I used to like to read a lot of, you know, like things like.
• 10:18
  Marco: Metaphysics or quantum physics or all those things.
• 10:22
  Marco: And I used to think that I was like the crazy kid, but I never said that to anybody.
• 10:26
  Marco: It was like, to myself, you know, I, I used to be that ki that kid who put a piece of paper and wanted to move it with just with my mind in, in my room without nobody knowing that I was doing those things, you know?
• 10:37
  Marco: Okay.
• 10:38
  Marco: That's great to know.
• 10:39
  Marco: So when I was there.
• 10:41
  Marco: And I was watching this thing moving and I was watching that.
• 10:45
  Marco: I was not the only one that was looking at it for me.
• 10:48
  Marco: It was also relief.
• 10:49
  Marco: It was like, damn, I'm not crazy.
• 10:51
  Marco: They are all watching what I'm watching and this is real.
• 10:56
  Marco: So that was the moment when I, I, I felt that I integrated something about me that I was like kind of rejecting.
• 11:03
  Marco: That was like this first great movement.
• 11:05
  Marco: So from that moment on, I kept on going every week 'cause it was a weak group.
• 11:10
  Marco: So I started going every week to, to do constellations and uh, yeah, I decided I have to, to know how this works.
• 11:16
  Marco: And I started, uh, starting, uh.
• 11:19
  Marco: Constellations and since then I haven't stopped working on that for 23 years, almost 24 years now.
• 11:27
  Marco: Wow.
• 11:27
  Marco: Fantastic.
• 11:28
  Marco: So it was.
• 11:30
  Marco: It was really, yeah, it was about, it changed totally my, my life and, and a lot of processes of my life moving change.
• 11:40
  Marco: I leave, uh, the theater and I dedicated, uh, purely to the therapy.
• 11:45
  Marco: So I started studying more about therapy and more, uh, I, I always liked to read a lot of books.
• 11:52
  Marco: Uh, so I started like reading a lot, lot, lot, lot.
• 11:55
  Marco: And.
• 11:55
  Marco: Well, my, my life took another path that when I thought it was gonna be,
• 11:59
  Tracy: yeah, there was that the, um, the emerging future.
• 12:03
  Tracy: What, what's actually coming in versus what we think is coming from,
• 12:07
  Marco: right.
• 12:08
  Marco: Yeah.
• 12:09
  Marco: Yeah.
• 12:09
  Marco: Oh, that's really good.
• 12:10
  Marco: I love, like this, this, this, there's this video, uh, it's a group from the United States called Line Melon.
• 12:16
  Marco: It's from the eighties or nineties?
• 12:18
  Marco: Nineties I think.
• 12:19
  Marco: So the video is.
• 12:21
  Marco: It's a little girl who's dressed, uh, as a little bee and she's dancing, tap in the theater and everybody's booing her.
• 12:28
  Marco: Nobody likes her dance.
• 12:29
  Marco: So she, she comes to the street and she start dancing to everybody in the street and nobody laughs her, they laugh at about her.
• 12:35
  Marco: So she's really sad.
• 12:37
  Marco: Until finally she comes to this, uh, this, uh, playground.
• 12:40
  Marco: She opened the door and it's full of people dressed as bees dancing like crazies.
• 12:45
  Marco: And she's like, oh, this is my group.
• 12:47
  Marco: This is my tribe.
• 12:48
  Marco: So I felt like that when I arrived to Constellations, like this little bit like, oh, this is my group.
• 12:54
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah, I get that.
• 12:56
  Tracy: I was like that too.
• 12:56
  Tracy: And when I first met Constellations, I was like, I know this, this feels familiar, right?
• 13:03
  Tracy: Right.
• 13:04
  Tracy: That's, that's beautiful.
• 13:04
  Tracy: Familiar.
• 13:05
  Tracy: That's the word, Uhhuh.
• 13:06
  Tracy: So, 'cause constellations is, is quite well known, isn't it?
• 13:10
  Tracy: Through South America?
• 13:11
  Marco: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:12
  Marco: It, it's, it's really, really good, uh, movement, mostly in Mexico, in, uh.
• 13:20
  Marco: Colombia and Brazil.
• 13:21
  Marco: They're the, the three places where there it grew more.
• 13:26
  Marco: Yeah.
• 13:26
  Marco: Um, but, uh, I think it has to be with the structure of families here.
• 13:31
  Marco: 'cause in Latin America, families are, uh, tend to be more, uh, uh, grouped.
• 13:37
  Marco: You know more, uh, it's not, uh, yet that, uh, dependent thing of like you have to move from your family.
• 13:45
  Marco: There's people who live with their parents now they are 30 years and they're still living at their parents' house.
• 13:51
  Marco: They got married, they got the, the wife to the house and.
• 13:54
  Marco: The families are together.
• 13:56
  Marco: So in a positive sense it's really good'cause you have your tribe in there.
• 13:59
  Marco: You know, you have a lot of people who support you.
• 14:03
  Marco: But what I've realized the problem is, uh, that we've lost what Helen Air call calls the order.
• 14:09
  Marco: So.
• 14:10
  Marco: You have all the family together, but there is no order.
• 14:13
  Marco: So instead of being, uh, a fluent, a fluid, uh, relationship between families, it start turning into conflicts, you know, and people are not respecting the orders and the place in the family.
• 14:26
  Marco: So that's why I think constellations really got, uh, good reception here.
• 14:30
  Marco: 'cause it's a good way to put order in families that are already, uh, together a little bit mesh also.
• 14:39
  Tracy: Helen spent a lot of time there too, didn't he?
• 14:42
  Tracy: Throughout Mexico and Brazil.
• 14:46
  Tracy: And so I know that in Brazil they have, um, constellations in the courts and in some hospitals.
• 14:54
  Tracy: Is
• 14:55
  Marco: there
• 14:55
  Tracy: anything like that in
• 14:55
  Marco: Mexico?
• 14:56
  Marco: No.
• 14:57
  Marco: Uh, at that level, no.
• 14:58
  Marco: There's, there's been tries, tryouts about it.
• 15:02
  Marco: I have, uh, for example, the opportunity of, uh, working with, uh mm-hmm in gala, Rob.
• 15:08
  Marco: We went to work with a government institution, like a police, government institution.
• 15:13
  Marco: And it was really interesting to work with them with this tool.
• 15:17
  Marco: They were o obviously like not, uh, trusting the program, but uh.
• 15:22
  Marco: It's a little bit harder here to, to be received.
• 15:25
  Marco: There's been a lot of attempts and there's people working, you know, like jails, like big companies and also people doing things in, in, in, in the, in the government.
• 15:34
  Marco: But it's not like an official tool like in Brazil they've got it.
• 15:39
  Marco: Like even like an official tool.
• 15:41
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 15:41
  Tracy: 'cause for us in, in New Zealand, it is still quite.
• 15:46
  Tracy: It's been here for a long time, but it's not, it's only the last few years that it's really starting to get known, and more and more people are hearing about it.
• 15:54
  Tracy: And so it's really just starting to take off here.
• 15:58
  Tracy: Oh,
• 15:59
  Marco: that's, well, that's, that's great.
• 16:01
  Marco: Like, it's, uh, it's the times that, uh, the expansion is already here.
• 16:06
  Marco: Yeah, and it's needed.
• 16:07
  Marco: I think it with the, with pandemics, uh, after pandemics, we got this needing of getting together, gathering again together.
• 16:16
  Marco: Everybody, like in physical.
• 16:18
  Marco: So that's why this, this time the concerts are full and everything that has to be with people together, it is growing.
• 16:25
  Marco: So I think it's good for constellations because people really have this desire of going to a physical place to, to work with other.
• 16:33
  Marco: People to be with other people in physical, not only online.
• 16:37
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:38
  Tracy: It's that, um, it's that community and that tribal.
• 16:41
  Tracy: Travel connections and, right.
• 16:43
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 16:43
  Marco: And I, I think, I, I think I love really a lot is that in the end, we are still monkeys, so we still have our reptilian brain and we need the, the, the touch, the contact, you know, the, the smell of the other to feel safe and to feel connected and.
• 17:01
  Marco: To make these links with other people.
• 17:03
  Marco: So, uh, I see it in constellations just, uh, arriving to a group of people just being there.
• 17:10
  Marco: It's something I know something is healing.
• 17:13
  Marco: Just knowing that you're part of something and then you have this intention of healing.
• 17:19
  Marco: So that is makes, uh, the perfect tool for, for balancing.
• 17:23
  Marco: Exactly.
• 17:24
  Tracy: How do you describe it?
• 17:26
  Tracy: I don't know.
• 17:27
  Tracy: If you meet someone say that didn't know anything about constellations, how would you describe it to them?
• 17:32
  Marco: Well, well, I usually say it's like, it's like it is to have a diagnos diagnostic of, uh, where you standing like a map.
• 17:41
  Marco: So you can know where you standing in this moment of your life and which are the roads or tools you have to move in this map.
• 17:48
  Marco: That, that's what I will say, like, like the, the briefest thing to say, you know?
• 17:52
  Marco: Yeah.
• 17:53
  Marco: But fortunately I don't have to say it too much, you know, I just, uh, people just arrive and usually they say, I've heard about it or somebody already told me about it.
• 18:02
  Marco: This, this, this, uh, show.
• 18:03
  Marco: The, my, my other self, uh, that was on Netflix help a lot of, uh, it sure does.
• 18:09
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:10
  Tracy: And I hear there's another, uh, series of it coming out soon, season three.
• 18:15
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 18:16
  Marco: Okay.
• 18:16
  Marco: That's great.
• 18:16
  Marco: I, I hope he has a lot of d the, a lot of people watch it, so they're more interested into, yeah.
• 18:22
  Marco: Coming to the
• 18:23
  Tracy: work.
• 18:24
  Tracy: I know that your father's passed recently, and you shared a little bit with me earlier, but how has Constellation supported you in that process?
• 18:33
  Marco: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Marco: You know, like, uh, for me, getting this idea of, of he about taking the parents, it is, it's taken me, uh, big part of this 20 years of work because it's always like, oh, take your parents.
• 18:48
  Marco: Oh, I take it.
• 18:49
  Marco: Oh, I take it.
• 18:50
  Marco: Oh, I take it.
• 18:51
  Marco: But, uh, for me it was just this, uh, awareness of, you know, sometimes I was thinking, take, uh, take your parents was, uh, take their.
• 19:01
  Marco: The things they're carrying and carry the things they're carrying.
• 19:04
  Marco: That was what I have the idea of, of it.
• 19:06
  Marco: So when I was able not to understand it, uh, recently, but in my body that, uh, taking the parents is, it was respecting them with everything that they really have.
• 19:16
  Marco: Like, being able to see the things that I don't like as a, as a.
• 19:20
  Marco: As a children or I don't like, uh, or I would expect to be different.
• 19:24
  Marco: And being able to realize that that was part of them.
• 19:28
  Marco: And again, not intellectually,'cause I could do it, in my mind I was like kind of busy, but really being able to do it in my body.
• 19:35
  Marco: Yeah, it was so good.
• 19:36
  Marco: 'cause at that moment I, I was able all also to accept the things that I tend to criticize for myself, for myself or judge for myself.
• 19:44
  Marco: So that was the, the first.
• 19:46
  Marco: Part of it.
• 19:47
  Marco: So in this time, uh, being with my father, and also, you know, like the thing that, uh, I know about constellations, uh, working through long time is that you can talk to the soul of the person, not only the, the the, the mind.
• 20:03
  Marco: So in my father case, he, he had already Alzheimer's.
• 20:06
  Marco: So he, I was with him at the hospital and I was able to talk to him to, in the, in the soul level, knowing that he was listening.
• 20:16
  Marco: So that was good for me.
• 20:17
  Marco: You know, like the, the, the, the assurance for myself that he was listening.
• 20:23
  Marco: It was good to me.
• 20:25
  Marco: And, and it was really nice 'cause there was a moment when I was saying, uh, goodbye to him and.
• 20:30
  Marco: You know, also in Constellation, I realized that the thing that, uh, the only thing when you're an older children to, to your parents to tell them is like the basic things that Bruce Inger said.
• 20:44
  Marco: Like, thank you for my life.
• 20:45
  Marco: I love you.
• 20:46
  Marco: You're living in my, in my body, in my cells, in my genes, and I will do something nice with my life.
• 20:55
  Marco: So basically I was, uh, able to tell him that when he was in the bed, and, you know, it was, it was beautiful'cause I could, I could see that, uh, uh, a teardrop come out from his eye.
• 21:07
  Marco: And for me, that was the confirmation that he was listening.
• 21:11
  Marco: So also that was for me, you know, like really, really relaxing and, uh, so yeah, basically, and, and also, you know, when he passed away, uh, I arrived, he had just recently passed away, so I was able to take his hand and he was still hot, his hand.
• 21:28
  Marco: And, uh, also through constellations, you know, working with people who passed away.
• 21:34
  Marco: You know, like, I don't wanna say the, the spirits, 'cause that's not a a word you would use, but the, the, the soul after trespassing this life, you know, you can, in constellation, you can talk to the souls.
• 21:48
  Marco: So I knew that, uh, in a sense it was, uh, for me comfortable to know that he was there and just tell him like, you're, you're, you're free.
• 21:57
  Marco: You're already passed away.
• 21:58
  Marco: I, I, I was telling you, I guess, I guess this is confusing 'cause you've been like long time in Alzheimer's.
• 22:03
  Marco: Suddenly, I don't know, maybe you're clear now and you're watching your body.
• 22:07
  Marco: I don't know.
• 22:08
  Marco: I was telling him if I would be you, and this is what I would do, so for me, telling him that it was in a way helping him to pass away, yeah, that was my intention as a, as a son, you know, like a, the good son, and I can realize that.
• 22:22
  Marco: But also as an adult, it was good for me to, to really say goodbye to him because.
• 22:27
  Marco: I could also even do an exercise of honoring his body, like giving thanks to his body for caring with him all this time.
• 22:35
  Marco: So it came a point when I could see his body and realize that it was just a body, it was, you know, my, my, my father as my father was not there.
• 22:43
  Marco: It was just like when you take your clothes and you leave the clothes there, it was just the clothes.
• 22:48
  Marco: So that was also nice.
• 22:51
  Marco: Another thing that I could do, it was when I was, uh, by, by his side in the bed, I, I could, uh, also do this exercise of, uh, you know, putting my inner child like in Constellation and imagine my inner child, what he was doing, and I could tell my inner child.
• 23:08
  Marco: Next to the bed, like asking, what's gonna happen to my father?
• 23:11
  Marco: Is he okay?
• 23:11
  Marco: I'm gonna miss him.
• 23:12
  Marco: All these things.
• 23:13
  Marco: So I do this exercise of just hogging my inner child and telling him, no, I I'm going to take care of you.
• 23:19
  Marco: I'm, I'm the one who's taking care of you.
• 23:21
  Marco: And yeah, that is, is, is passing to this process.
• 23:24
  Marco: And he's going to say goodbye, but he's going to be with us in a, in another way.
• 23:29
  Marco: In a different way.
• 23:30
  Marco: So that was also good for me 'cause I didn't.
• 23:33
  Marco: Experience like this kind of, I don't know how to say it, if that's the way Right word.
• 23:37
  Marco: Like this drama of, uh, I, I mean, I, I did cry.
• 23:41
  Marco: I did have the, the, the sadness, but it was not this, this, uh, yeah.
• 23:48
  Marco: I was not against what was going on.
• 23:50
  Marco: You know, I, I, and I didn't have this expectation that it would be different.
• 23:54
  Marco: That's, that's something I think that it's helped me a lot from constellations, you know, when you're there with this attitude of, of, uh, just, uh, respect what it is, accept what it is and what it is can be painful and what it is can be sad.
• 24:10
  Marco: But that's also something that is.
• 24:12
  Marco: So I think that was a great tool for me to be able to be there accepting everything that was happening.
• 24:19
  Marco: And then also I could see all the, you know, I, I used to hate going to hospitals.
• 24:23
  Marco: That was something I really hated.
• 24:25
  Marco: Like, 'cause I've always been sensitive and I always get this things, but, uh, this time it, for the first time I could see all the love that.
• 24:34
  Marco: That there's in a hospital, you know, because I, I was watching like people who was sick, you know, passing there and I could see how their.
• 24:42
  Marco: Their symptoms were at the service of their, their families, or sometimes it was even at the service of the doctors and the nurses.
• 24:50
  Marco: I was like, that's crazy.
• 24:51
  Marco: You know, like even they are helping the doctors and their nurses with their symptoms and, and, and also this, this thing that we as a human has, like the, this species that we take care of others to be able to see.
• 25:05
  Marco: All these doctors, all these nurses are taking care of other people with, with such attention, with such detail.
• 25:12
  Marco: People that you would say they're not their family, and you can tell Well, yeah, it's their, their job.
• 25:17
  Marco: They get paid for that.
• 25:19
  Marco: Yeah.
• 25:19
  Marco: But, but it was not only the.
• 25:21
  Marco: The money.
• 25:22
  Marco: It was, you know, like this, really love that this big love that Helen, her talk about in constellations that move us.
• 25:29
  Marco: I could, I could see the hospital being moved by all the love.
• 25:33
  Marco: So when that was happening, I didn't feel alone there in the experience with my father.
• 25:39
  Marco: There was no, no feeling of loneliness.
• 25:41
  Marco: You know, like, he's leaving me, I'm gonna be alone.
• 25:45
  Marco: It was the other way.
• 25:46
  Marco: It was like, damn, there's a lot of loving here.
• 25:48
  Marco: So, uh, that was really beautiful.
• 25:50
  Marco: Uh, I mean.
• 25:52
  Marco: I was gonna say, and
• 25:53
  Tracy: do you think on some level that, in that awareness and your awareness through that, that there was another layer of help?
• 26:01
  Tracy: You know how in the field when we, when we're working in the constellation and we see something, uh, it's not just the, the client that's getting up, but there is the, there are the representatives and then there are the witnesses, and then there are the others.
• 26:15
  Tracy: And even though it's not, sometimes things aren't spoken, there is so much that is released.
• 26:21
  Tracy: I'm wondering, as you were sharing, that was a part of me thinking.
• 26:25
  Tracy: I wonder if as Marco was receiving that and, and, and saying yes to all of that, what it was opening up in the field, and then obviously you were able to see the love and receive the love and, and that would've been rippling out.
• 26:41
  Tracy: Right?
• 26:41
  Tracy: That would've been amplified.
• 26:43
  Marco: Mm-hmm.
• 26:43
  Marco: That's beautiful.
• 26:45
  Marco: That's, yeah, that's beautiful.
• 26:46
  Marco: And, and I can tell like.
• 26:48
  Marco: For example, when the doctor came, you know, my attitude towards them, it was of gratitude, of real gratitude.
• 26:54
  Marco: Like, and they were trying to explain, you know, like, we did the best and blah.
• 26:58
  Marco: Like they were waiting if I would be angry or something.
• 27:02
  Marco: And I was like, no, I, I just give you thanks 'cause I know you did the best for.
• 27:06
  Marco: The best you could.
• 27:07
  Marco: So I, I like what you're saying.
• 27:09
  Marco: Yeah.
• 27:10
  Marco: I, I don't know what was, what was expanding over there, but, uh, yeah, I, I, that's another thing I love about the constellations, uh, point of view.
• 27:18
  Marco: When you see the, the big picture of things when you, the more, 'cause we can see everything, but the more you can see, it's, it's beautiful how Yeah.
• 27:27
  Marco: Everything is really connected.
• 27:29
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 27:29
  Tracy: And,
• 27:29
  Marco: and
• 27:29
  Tracy: that potential goes into the field, right.
• 27:31
  Tracy: Or someone else to receive that as well.
• 27:34
  Tracy: Someone else might have recognizing, oh, this is, this is actually healing.
• 27:40
  Tracy: This is beautiful.
• 27:42
  Tracy: This is, I'm seeing love.
• 27:44
  Tracy: I'm feeling love.
• 27:45
  Tracy: Whereas they may not have had that experience if it wasn't already in the feeling too.
• 27:50
  Tracy: So, 'cause hospitals are tricky places, right?
• 27:54
  Tracy: There's a lot of energy going on, uh, and, and a lot of emotion going around.
• 27:59
  Tracy: Right,
• 28:00
  Marco: right.
• 28:00
  Marco: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:03
  Marco: Every time I came out, I, I do take my, my bath, I have my, my teacher, he used to tell me when there's a lot of energy, you take your path and you clean yourself and, you know, like, just let it go.
• 28:15
  Marco: Just in case.
• 28:16
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 28:17
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 28:18
  Tracy: Definitely.
• 28:18
  Tracy: I learnt.
• 28:19
  Tracy: Because I'm like, you too, really sensitive.
• 28:22
  Tracy: And, and I pick up on people's energy really quickly.
• 28:26
  Tracy: And so I learned that if I, if I imagine the edge of my aura, which is, you know, our auras are really big.
• 28:33
  Tracy: Like they can be, we can be standing in the middle of a six meter sphere, right on average.
• 28:38
  Tracy: So there's three meters in front, three meters behind it, and, and see it and pull it in.
• 28:43
  Tracy: Imagine the edges of it, like a cent bubble.
• 28:46
  Tracy: And start pulling it in, pulling it in.
• 28:48
  Tracy: Then it get to a point where it's a bit, it's sticky and it doesn't wanna come in anymore 'cause it's full, like the aura is full.
• 28:54
  Tracy: So I imagine that these little, little, um, flaps open up and then as I pull in, anything that doesn't belong to me can squish out like spaghetti noodles.
• 29:04
  Tracy: And then it'll get to a point where it softens again, where all of the things that don't belong to me have oozed out.
• 29:10
  Tracy: So I can close off those holes and become a nice sphere again and just bring in a little bit more.
• 29:15
  Tracy: So it's.
• 29:17
  Tracy: Especially if I'm going to the hospital or to visit someone or to the supermarket or, or the mosh pit.
• 29:25
  Tracy: Not, I don't go to mosh pits, but if I was, mm-hmm.
• 29:28
  Tracy: So I definitely do that and then it will unfold when you're, when you're feeling comfortable in that.
• 29:33
  Tracy: But that for me has been a great, um, even in airplanes, you know,'cause everybody's Yeah, of course.
• 29:40
  Tracy: Right.
• 29:41
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 29:41
  Tracy: Vehicle together.
• 29:42
  Tracy: So.
• 29:44
  Tracy: It's been a, it's been a great resource for me and, and, and I get to the point where I can just do it now.
• 29:49
  Tracy: It's like it's done.
• 29:52
  Tracy: Whereas it used to be a process.
• 29:54
  Tracy: Now it's a, it's such a good tool.
• 29:56
  Marco: Yeah.
• 29:57
  Marco: I, I, I thank you for sharing it and, and you know, I was thinking, uh, about the, my experience in this, in this particular case.
• 30:04
  Marco: Uh, and I, I was realizing that I also felt protected by my father.
• 30:09
  Marco: It was funny, you know, in a way I was feeling protected by him.
• 30:13
  Marco: 'cause I know he was going through this process and I could.
• 30:17
  Marco: See the warrior in inside of him.
• 30:19
  Marco: You know, like even though his age he was, I could see his body like strong and you, so I was like, uh, I, what I thought is, I respect your warrior and I respect this is the way you're, you're, you're passing and this is the way you're doing it.
• 30:34
  Marco: So now that you're, it's just, I'm realizing that I felt protected.
• 30:39
  Marco: Being by him, although he was in this situation and I felt protected and, and there was a moment when the doctor said like, well, he may get a heart attack, one of these moments.
• 30:50
  Marco: And I just remember, I just, uh, take a deep breath and I imagine my grandmother, my grandfather, and I really had this.
• 30:58
  Marco: Feeling, and I know, I know it could be psychologically, but for me it was totally, energetically, I had the feeling my grandmother, my great-grandmother coming into space, and I even have this feeling of, oh, okay, thank you.
• 31:11
  Marco: Like you, you, you, you know what to do with him.
• 31:13
  Marco: Like, thank you for being here and it was so good.
• 31:17
  Marco: You know, this, I, I felt all the time protected, you know, my ancestors in, in that place.
• 31:22
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 31:23
  Tracy: And, and you've got a ikea, you've got a cold.
• 31:26
  Tracy: Um, which is not uncommon after someone's past that we have mm-hmm.
• 31:30
  Tracy: That we come down with a cold.
• 31:31
  Tracy: It's kind of like the, another layer of grief being released.
• 31:35
  Tracy: Right.
• 31:36
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:37
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:37
  Tracy: And my mom transitioned, we'll call it, transitioned to the other side a couple of years ago and, and I had five really bad chest infections after she left.
• 31:48
  Tracy: Uh, yeah.
• 31:50
  Tracy: Because she'd been living with us for, for a long time and you know, we were really in close relationship, so there was a whole lot of.
• 32:01
  Tracy: Just acknowledging all that you're holding and, and releasing right now.
• 32:05
  Tracy: So thank you for agree to be here and, and spending time
• 32:09
  Marco: with me on this call.
• 32:10
  Marco: Yeah.
• 32:10
  Marco: Oh, it's a pleasure.
• 32:11
  Marco: No, it's a pleasure.
• 32:12
  Marco: You know, like, uh, also after it passed, I, I have some work.
• 32:16
  Marco: I did some work.
• 32:18
  Marco: 'cause I was thinking, you know, like, am I doing the work to disconnect from my feelings?
• 32:23
  Marco: And he was like, no.
• 32:25
  Marco: I feel like I'm, you know, like this awareness of we are going to go, like, my father just passed away, so this awareness, like, I'm gonna pass away too.
• 32:34
  Marco: So it was like, what I wanna do, where I'm here and I said, I like to do work with people, so I'm gonna do work with people, so I'm not gonna push myself too, too much, but I want to do it.
• 32:44
  Marco: And I've been having my spaces of crying, you know, I, I just watch, uh, again, the.
• 32:50
  Marco: Frankenstein movie.
• 32:51
  Marco: So it's about father singing.
• 32:53
  Marco: Oh, what, so it's a good way to release also.
• 32:55
  Marco: Yeah.
• 32:56
  Marco: Anything that's stuck in there.
• 32:58
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:00
  Tracy: Find a good movie to have a cry.
• 33:01
  Tracy: Overall good program.
• 33:02
  Tracy: Right?
• 33:05
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 33:05
  Tracy: It's, yeah, I've
• 33:06
  Marco: been having my moments of releasing Yeah.
• 33:10
  Marco: Also my, my time of letting me flow my cry and, mm-hmm.
• 33:14
  Marco: And that's good.
• 33:14
  Marco: Yeah.
• 33:15
  Marco: So, um.
• 33:16
  Tracy: And your workshop at the uh, um, conference was around the father too, wasn't it?
• 33:21
  Marco: It was mostly, yeah.
• 33:22
  Marco: It was the father, of course.
• 33:23
  Marco: Yeah.
• 33:23
  Marco: But, uh, it was focused on patriarch key, but it was the father.
• 33:27
  Marco: And, you know, it's, it's really funny'cause they, when they asked me what was the workshop about at that moment, I was like, I'm resonating with this.
• 33:35
  Marco: So I, I, I, I decided to do the workshop and prior to go to, to Meida, I went to visit my father.
• 33:42
  Marco: 'cause I say I need to, to connect with him 'cause I'm gonna give a, a workshop on, on the, on the, on the father.
• 33:47
  Marco: So I need to, it was a really good, and I really liked that.
• 33:50
  Marco: 'cause uh, I, I, I think that was, uh, uh, yeah, that was the, the last time I saw him.
• 33:59
  Marco: Alive.
• 33:59
  Marco: Yeah.
• 33:59
  Marco: Well, well, uh, conscious, you know, conscious.
• 34:02
  Marco: Yeah.
• 34:02
  Marco: That was the last time I saw him conscious.
• 34:04
  Marco: 'cause the next time he was in the hospital and he was not, uh, conscious anymore.
• 34:08
  Marco: So, uh, yeah, it was, it was, uh, you know, everything came together in, in a really.
• 34:16
  Marco: Like the, the field always surprises with, uh, rhythms falling in
• 34:20
  Tracy: place.
• 34:21
  Tracy: When you are constellating, do you use, like, so I use the drum, do you use any, um, anything like that?
• 34:28
  Tracy: Or is yours more, how do you work?
• 34:31
  Tracy: How would you describe your style facilitation?
• 34:34
  Tracy: Sorry,
• 34:36
  Marco: is that it?
• 34:36
  Marco: Got, it got cut at later?
• 34:37
  Marco: What?
• 34:37
  Tracy: What was the question?
• 34:38
  Tracy: Oh, sorry.
• 34:39
  Tracy: Um, when you are facilitating.
• 34:43
  Tracy: Do you use, um, mm-hmm.
• 34:45
  Tracy: A drum or are you more, do you like to do lots of exercises?
• 34:50
  Tracy: How do you, how would you call, describe your style.
• 34:53
  Marco: Uh, well, it, it depends.
• 34:55
  Marco: Uh, I do do two kinds.
• 34:56
  Marco: If I do constellations, it's only constellations, you know, like I, if I do a workshop on some topic, then I do more exercise.
• 35:06
  Marco: 'cause I want everybody to have the experience of it.
• 35:09
  Marco: So it's it depending on the, the focus, you know, so that's, that's what I do.
• 35:17
  Marco: The just, and it comes from the beginning.
• 35:20
  Marco: If I invite people, uh, to a constellation workshop, it's sounds lonely constellations.
• 35:25
  Marco: If I invite them to a workshop of something, uh, with constellations, then I usually try to do exercise for everybody to experience it.
• 35:35
  Marco: Sure.
• 35:36
  Marco: Okay.
• 35:37
  Marco: And it was really nice, like this, this, this time I just did one in to about, uh, how do I love it was how do I love?
• 35:45
  Marco: So it was really beautiful 'cause it was just, uh, making this consciousness that everything is supported by love.
• 35:52
  Marco: Hmm.
• 35:52
  Marco: But the way we decide to love is different.
• 35:55
  Marco: So I took, you know, these tools of the Greeks about the different way, different ways of love.
• 36:00
  Marco: So I invited the people to experience how, how does that feels with different relationships.
• 36:05
  Marco: Uh, and also this beautiful images, uh, like it was, we were in a, like in the circle, I was like imagining a circle that every, every person that you love come to sit in this circle.
• 36:19
  Marco: And I was telling him.
• 36:20
  Marco: And uh, if there's somebody that you forget, uh, bring another chair for them.
• 36:25
  Marco: And if there's somebody standing in the back of your circle, invite them to come to the circle.
• 36:30
  Marco: So it was beautiful.
• 36:31
  Marco: 'cause people were saying how they remember people who, or acknowledge people who they love.
• 36:37
  Marco: They were not able to acknowledge that they love these people.
• 36:41
  Marco: So in the end they said, like, my, my circle was growing and there was a point when I realized that I have a really big circle of love and a lot of people that I love and they love me.
• 36:51
  Marco: So it was really, that was a really beautiful experience and a beautiful exercise also for me to include all the people that I love.
• 36:59
  Tracy: So is there, are there themes that come like, so some countries, like there's in New Zealand, there's a lot of.
• 37:07
  Tracy: There's a lot of suicide, there's a lot of grief, a lot of, um, physical and sexual abuse.
• 37:12
  Tracy: Is there, do you notice a theme for yourself or, or a theme in the constellation field in Mexico?
• 37:20
  Marco: Oh, well, we would say that, uh, it has to be a lot of things with the absence of the father, you know, that and, uh, what everything that comes with that.
• 37:30
  Marco: Like, uh, problems with the couples violence, uh, addictions.
• 37:36
  Marco: That's, that's something that it's, uh, something that it's like, um, a theme in, in, in here.
• 37:42
  Marco: Based on that, I decided to focus more on working the dynamic between couples, so basically the dynamic between the masculine and feminine.
• 37:51
  Marco: That's why I did the workshop on patriarchy.
• 37:54
  Marco: 'cause I think it's like, uh, for me, uh, after listening at Angu about history, I really, I'm always interested like, yeah, we're here, but where does this come from?
• 38:04
  Marco: You know, we're part of something bigger, so where does this come from?
• 38:07
  Marco: So all the time I'm like trying to go deeper and deeper.
• 38:10
  Marco: So, uh, I started, you know, like going through racism, colonialism, uh.
• 38:16
  Marco: So paty capitalism.
• 38:18
  Marco: So how these big systems impact the way families work, and then how the dynamics inside the families work.
• 38:25
  Marco: So, uh, that's something I'm interested about.
• 38:28
  Marco: Uh.
• 38:28
  Marco: Empowering.
• 38:29
  Marco: You know, I remember when, when, when I started in constellations, constellations were a lot, like, a lot more like a soap opera.
• 38:36
  Marco: I remember, you know, it was like everybody like in crying and it was all these really intense things.
• 38:43
  Marco: And I like how, uh.
• 38:46
  Marco: It, it, it has been going more to the, to the basics, you know, to, to the, what's important.
• 38:52
  Marco: Not, not too much drama for me, it's more like what's really there for you?
• 38:57
  Marco: What's the tools you need?
• 38:58
  Marco: Like yeah, touch the pain, of course.
• 39:00
  Marco: Yeah.
• 39:00
  Marco: Give a space for it.
• 39:01
  Marco: But, uh, you know.
• 39:03
  Marco: Don't take too, too long in there, like, uh, like we're, we're in this, uh, society moving so fast, we don't have time to, to go there.
• 39:11
  Marco: Like, uh, take too much time in dwelling in things that, uh, are from the past.
• 39:18
  Marco: It is not that we don't acknowledge and we don't give the weight of it, but don't take too, too much over there.
• 39:26
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:26
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:27
  Tracy: It's definitely changed and evolved even in the time that I've been at as well.
• 39:31
  Tracy: And then I think the more facilitators you see, the more you find yourself in the field as a facilitator.
• 39:40
  Tracy: Right.
• 39:40
  Tracy: It's um, yeah, definitely.
• 39:42
  Tracy: Is that influence, the influence over how.
• 39:46
  Tracy: How your work comes out.
• 39:48
  Tracy: Right,
• 39:48
  Marco: right.
• 39:48
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:49
  Marco: Yeah.
• 39:49
  Marco: Right.
• 39:50
  Tracy: Do you have any examples that you would feel comfortable in sharing anything that is memorable?
• 39:55
  Tracy: Obviously, without sharing anyone's name or any details, but just something that you might have witnessed that you think that stuck with me.
• 40:04
  Marco: Like, uh, some, uh, event or some situation that happened.
• 40:08
  Tracy: Like, yeah, like a constellations where you've, you've, um, been a part of, or you've been,
• 40:15
  Marco: uh, able to witness.
• 40:16
  Marco: Well, uh, what, what would come to me because it was like, it got my attention in the workshop I did in, in, uh, about the patriarchy.
• 40:26
  Marco: And I say that because it's the latest that I have in my mind on, in the, the patriarch.
• 40:30
  Marco: Yeah.
• 40:30
  Marco: A lot of things.
• 40:31
  Marco: So, uh.
• 40:33
  Marco: Yeah.
• 40:33
  Marco: So it was, um, the moment where, uh, the representative of the shame on men, you know, 'cause women tend to carry this, uh, shame on patriarchy.
• 40:44
  Marco: We carry the shame of our, uh, father, the shame of our grandfather and our own.
• 40:49
  Marco: After doing the moment of bringing the ancestors and love the shame turned.
• 40:53
  Marco: And she said, I'm not the shame anymore.
• 40:56
  Marco: I am vulnerability.
• 40:58
  Tracy: Vulnerability.
• 40:59
  Tracy: So that was
• 40:59
  Marco: like, wow, you know?
• 41:01
  Marco: Vulnerability.
• 41:02
  Marco: I was like, wow.
• 41:04
  Marco: You know, like, uh, 'cause that's something I've experienced as a man and in younger generations of men, you know, when you, when you turn your shame into vulnerability, it's beautiful.
• 41:14
  Marco: You, you, you can open your heart, you can open to possibilities.
• 41:17
  Marco: But in the culture we live, it's not usually, is not something available for men usually.
• 41:24
  Marco: There, there was a, a representative of expectations, you know, what the expectations of the patriarchy th was, man.
• 41:31
  Marco: And he said, I'm not expectations now, now I am.
• 41:35
  Marco: Endless possibilities.
• 41:36
  Marco: So that also for me was, uh, like, like a man and a constellation, but also as a man was like, wow, that's, that's beautiful.
• 41:44
  Marco: You know, like was, that was something that.
• 41:47
  Marco: Those gifts from the field.
• 41:50
  Marco: And what I'm remembering now, uh, and I was, I was, uh, sharing this with Barry the other day, is, uh, I was working for a hospital and it was the, all the, all the people from the hospital, you know, doctors, nurses, the administration, everything.
• 42:06
  Marco: So we did a constellation of like all the parts of the, of the hospital, and I asked for somebody representing the patients.
• 42:14
  Marco: So there was this woman representing the patient.
• 42:17
  Marco: And then I asked for somebody to represent the, the family of the patients.
• 42:23
  Marco: And it was funny 'cause there was a doctor who stood up and he took his chair and he came with his chair to the constellation.
• 42:31
  Marco: I was like, really?
• 42:32
  Marco: Like, why, why bring the chair?
• 42:35
  Marco: And said, okay, what are you gonna do with the chair?
• 42:38
  Marco: So he brought the chair, he put it in the back of the patients, of the representative of the patients.
• 42:44
  Marco: And he took the, the patients and sat her on the chair.
• 42:48
  Marco: So he was representing the family of the patients.
• 42:51
  Marco: He brought a chair, he took the patients and he seat the patient patients in the chair.
• 42:56
  Marco: And I asked him, why do you do that?
• 42:59
  Marco: He said, because I want them to be more comfortable.
• 43:02
  Marco: And then I asked the patients, how do you feel with this?
• 43:06
  Marco: And she said, I don't like it.
• 43:08
  Marco: When I was standing, I felt strong.
• 43:11
  Marco: I felt bad because I, I'm ill, but I feel strong.
• 43:16
  Marco: And when he took me and put me in the chair, I felt I lost all this, all this power.
• 43:23
  Marco: So I, I, that's, that was beautiful.
• 43:25
  Marco: 'cause that was, was represented.
• 43:27
  Marco: This thing of saying when you want to help.
• 43:30
  Marco: When there's no orders of help and you want to help your families with their own, uh, destiny, their ch their caring, then you take them their dignity and then you take them their, their strength.
• 43:43
  Marco: So that was also a beautiful thing that it just came to my mind now, in this moment on the
• 43:49
  Tracy: field.
• 43:50
  Tracy: That's fantastic.
• 43:51
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:51
  Tracy: Like that.
• 43:53
  Tracy: It is out of order, isn't it?
• 43:54
  Tracy: It's like when.
• 43:55
  Tracy: When someone has something going on and it's honoring in their journey and their faith and, um, yeah.
• 44:02
  Tracy: It's ha it can be hard in our humanness to not want to help or over help.
• 44:08
  Tracy: Right.
• 44:09
  Tracy: Take
• 44:10
  Marco: the
• 44:10
  Tracy: experience and learn from them.
• 44:12
  Marco: Yeah.
• 44:13
  Marco: You know, I remember this person who tell me, uh, helping is, is he, he, he had, um, a bipolar disorder.
• 44:21
  Marco: He told me, you know, helping for me is like, imagine that, uh, we are both in a, in a room.
• 44:28
  Marco: And he says, and I come to the room, we ca with a, with a bucket full of shit.
• 44:33
  Marco: And I started throwing the shit all around.
• 44:36
  Marco: He says, and you don't tell me not to do it.
• 44:39
  Marco: You don't judge me for doing it.
• 44:42
  Marco: You don't help me with doing it.
• 44:44
  Marco: But also you don't let yourself be stained by the shit.
• 44:48
  Marco: You're just there present for me.
• 44:51
  Marco: That was for me, a great example.
• 44:53
  Marco: I was like, wow, okay.
• 44:55
  Marco: That's a great way to be helped and I'm, I'm here with you.
• 44:59
  Marco: Just be there and with all my persons with you expecting what you're living, what you're doing, but also putting limits about my, my own personal space.
• 45:10
  Marco: So yeah, that's, that's.
• 45:12
  Marco: That's beautiful, I think.
• 45:14
  Marco: Yeah.
• 45:14
  Marco: Do you work online?
• 45:16
  Marco: Yeah, I online I do it only, uh, uh, one-on-one.
• 45:21
  Marco: Like I usually don't, uh, constellate, you know, I, I, I, I, I of sometimes do it, but I prefer to do it in person.
• 45:29
  Marco: And when I do the constellation, I like to do it morally like, uh.
• 45:34
  Marco: Here, you know, like, I like to imagine the constellation and just tell the people the images to do
• 45:42
  Tracy: it.
• 45:43
  Tracy: You were talking about, um, doing it more in the mind.
• 45:47
  Marco: And Is that correct?
• 45:49
  Marco: Yeah, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:51
  Marco: Like, well, I, I get all the information with the person.
• 45:54
  Marco: I, I imagine the, the constellations and then I tell it to the people, the images and the, the phrases to, to say.
• 46:02
  Marco: So that's, that's some, some, some way I like to, to Fantastic.
• 46:05
  Marco: So it's 'cause what part of Mexico are you in?
• 46:09
  Marco: Uh, San Miguel.
• 46:11
  Marco: It's, uh, on the state of Guanajuato.
• 46:12
  Marco: It's around the center of Mexico, central Mexico.
• 46:17
  Tracy: I'll have to look at a map to see what happens.
• 46:19
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:19
  Tracy: But if anyone's listening that wants to, um, to reach out to Marco, how would they get in touch with you if there's someone in Mexico that wants to work with you, that has just found you from this podcast?
• 46:32
  Tracy: Oh, great.
• 46:33
  Marco: There's, uh, many options.
• 46:35
  Marco: My webpage, it's, uh, Marco Navarro, and there's, uh, my Instagram, it's, uh, Marco Navarro ter.
• 46:47
  Marco: My Facebook, Marco Navarro Seco, my YouTube, Marco Navarro Seco, and my TikTok, Marco Navarro Seco.
• 46:58
  Marco: Yeah.
• 46:58
  Marco: That's fantastic.
• 46:59
  Marco: Fantastic.
• 47:00
  Marco: So there's, there's, there's a lot of options.
• 47:03
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 47:05
  Tracy: Can you also, I've been just admiring that beautiful picture behind you.
• 47:10
  Tracy: Can you tell me, is that your painting.
• 47:12
  Marco: Yes, yes.
• 47:12
  Marco: I'm, I'm doing it is, uh, is that, um, my sister works in the justice system and she asked me for a painting to decorate her office.
• 47:22
  Marco: So it's, uh, I'm doing a lady justice for her.
• 47:27
  Marco: That's fantastic.
• 47:27
  Marco: Something on, is it based on her?
• 47:29
  Marco: My, uh, no, it's just, uh, the, the a d is like, uh, like a young Latin, uh, Latin woman.
• 47:38
  Marco: Representing the new institutions led by young women and also like all this kind of like the life, the flowers.
• 47:47
  Marco: And uh, the, the intention is that her sword is not, uh, is not on the hand up.
• 47:52
  Marco: Like to attack is like she's giving up the sword so you can decide like you're responsible for your thing.
• 47:59
  Marco: So there's the source of you decide what you want to do or you don't want to do.
• 48:03
  Marco: So that's a little bit of the meaning of the painting.
• 48:06
  Marco: I hope she likes it.
• 48:08
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 48:09
  Tracy: That's very beautiful.
• 48:10
  Tracy: So is painting something that you do a lot of?
• 48:13
  Marco: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:14
  Marco: Yeah.
• 48:14
  Marco: It's, uh, it's been, uh, since I was a kid I used to paint, but then I stop it, you know, those things that you think you're not good at and everything.
• 48:22
  Marco: And a couple of years ago I started, uh, painting and, um, that's something I do now.
• 48:28
  Marco: This is, uh, I have a, I have my Instagram page where I upload my, my paintings when I, sometimes I do.
• 48:35
  Marco: Yeah.
• 48:36
  Marco: Very beautiful.
• 48:37
  Marco: I paint also nice.
• 48:40
  Marco: And, you know, it's, it's a great, a great way also to, to, to connect and to, to leave all the, to take out all the symbology.
• 48:49
  Marco: I like.
• 48:49
  Marco: That's something I really like when, when you let the symbols come out.
• 48:53
  Marco: 'cause uh, long time I worked with, uh, tarot cards.
• 48:56
  Marco: Yeah.
• 48:57
  Marco: So I, uh.
• 48:59
  Marco: I work with all the symbolism of, of it.
• 49:02
  Marco: So I really like, uh, when, when the unconscious just comes out and say, okay, let's do this.
• 49:07
  Marco: Let's see how that
• 49:08
  Tracy: looks.
• 49:08
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 49:09
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 49:09
  Tracy: I'm doing a lot of that at the moment, just allowing, it's almost like a constellation through the, through the painting.
• 49:16
  Marco: What were, do you have your, do you have your paintings online or is there's a way to look at your paintings?
• 49:20
  Tracy: Um, I'm just opening up a, a page.
• 49:22
  Tracy: So I, I used to paint a lot.
• 49:24
  Tracy: Yes, please.
• 49:25
  Tracy: And then, um, and, and now my style has completely changed.
• 49:30
  Tracy: I used to do very, a lot of very fine work and, um, layered, multidimensional stuff.
• 49:37
  Tracy: You know, like many layers on, layers on those.
• 49:40
  Tracy: And I'm still doing layers, but in a different way and using different mediums and, and, and trying to be more freer with my painting.
• 49:48
  Tracy: 'cause I was a little bit uhhuh.
• 49:50
  Tracy: The description would be, it's a little bit anal because I'd be like, no, you're having to get all these fine, fine things.
• 49:56
  Tracy: That's how I would describe it for myself.
• 49:59
  Tracy: Like, and it would be, I was a little bit obsessed with it, you know, like, um, and so then I stopped painting.
• 50:06
  Tracy: I started, I took myself to some and, and I started doing some art journaling where you've got 20 minutes that you, you sit in circle, you share what's there on the top for you, and then you've got 20 minutes to translate that on a page.
• 50:23
  Tracy: And so you've just go deeper to process for 20 minutes, maybe 30 if you're lucky, depending on how, how much people have been talking.
• 50:31
  Tracy: Okay.
• 50:31
  Tracy: In the circle.
• 50:33
  Tracy: Okay.
• 50:34
  Tracy: And that allowed me to just really access that, um, the freedom, the, you know, getting looser and got it.
• 50:42
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 50:42
  Tracy: And, and my daughter has, um, she's very successful and she has a couple of clinics.
• 50:48
  Tracy: Um, she's got three now, and she has asked me to do paintings for each of her clinics.
• 50:54
  Tracy: And so I'm able to put in pieces of, of the things that, and her clinics are for skin and from the inside out.
• 51:03
  Tracy: Um, wow.
• 51:05
  Tracy: So working with that, and it started with a painting that I had done for them all based around parts of their journey as a couple.
• 51:14
  Tracy: And, and from there I started doing them for the her clinic and, and now I'm like.
• 51:19
  Tracy: Actually, it tells such a story.
• 51:21
  Tracy: It will be great to, to do that for people.
• 51:23
  Tracy: So that's what I'm doing at the moment.
• 51:25
  Tracy: There's a page being developed, so I'll let you, you know, if you feel
• 51:28
  Marco: comfortable if it, yeah, if you feel comfortable, it'll be really good if you can share it online.
• 51:33
  Marco: I, I love to see like, like the work of other people.
• 51:37
  Marco: It's like you, you learn things you.
• 51:39
  Marco: You find techniques, it's, it's gorgeous.
• 51:42
  Marco: I think it's like another way of language, so I would love to, if you, if you, if you're really up to it, it, it would be great if you can share that.
• 51:48
  Marco: Yeah.
• 51:48
  Marco: I'll
• 51:49
  Tracy: let you know.
• 51:49
  Tracy: I'll let you know when I'm letting it, when I'm releasing it.
• 51:52
  Tracy: Right.
• 51:53
  Tracy: That would be great.
• 51:55
  Tracy: It's, it's, it's another, it's another layer of me as well, which feels really nice too, isn't it?
• 52:00
  Tracy: It's a way of expressing yourself in another way.
• 52:03
  Marco: Yeah.
• 52:04
  Marco: And, and you know, I really love that as you were saying, like, uh, that, that we are talking here and acknowledging that, uh, we were this, we had this sensitive thing, this, these things like, like you're, we're not, we were not, 'cause we were at time where all these things were like, you know, either you're crazy or the art is something like, it's not, not something.
• 52:27
  Marco: You would leave of it, all those things.
• 52:30
  Marco: And turns out that it was just, uh, sensitive people doing sensitive things.
• 52:34
  Marco: Uh, and now it's great to, to get back to, to find each other and say, oh, great.
• 52:40
  Marco: Ah, I'm not, I'm not the only sensitive here.
• 52:43
  Marco: And it's nice to have friends that are just like me.
• 52:46
  Marco: Exactly.
• 52:46
  Marco: Feel so good.
• 52:48
  Tracy: Yeah,
• 52:49
  Marco: you like going to the circle of the, of the bee is really nice to find the rest of the bees dancing in the, you're
• 52:55
  Tracy: talking about bees.
• 52:56
  Tracy: I've got little honeycombs in my ears at the moment.
• 53:01
  Tracy: Oh wow.
• 53:01
  Tracy: You see, that's nice.
• 53:04
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 53:05
  Tracy: A friend's, a friend's daughter has started creating them and I was like, yeah, when she described them, you know, like the honeycomb attracting the bees and if you were to thinking about abundance and the frequencies that you wanna attract, and you put that intention and it was like, right.
• 53:21
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 53:22
  Tracy: Yeah, that sounds sounds like something I would like to be working with right now.
• 53:26
  Tracy: So.
• 53:27
  Marco: Wow.
• 53:28
  Marco: Thank you.
• 53:30
  Marco: You very fascinating.
• 53:31
  Marco: With the S, that's not nice.
• 53:35
  Tracy: Well, it's been beautiful to be able to connect with you again.
• 53:39
  Tracy: Yes, of course.
• 53:41
  Tracy: And to share this time, is there anything that you would like to.
• 53:47
  Tracy: She anything else that you'd like to share before
• 53:49
  Marco: we sign off today?
• 53:50
  Marco: Uh, just, uh, one, uh, one of my teachers used to say that, uh, uh, the only terrible thing in this world, uh.
• 54:02
  Marco: Is that everything is okay.
• 54:03
  Marco: The only terrible thing
• 54:05
  Tracy: in this world is that everything's
• 54:06
  Marco: okay.
• 54:07
  Marco: Everything is okay.
• 54:08
  Marco: Yeah, that's, I really love that.
• 54:10
  Marco: You know?
• 54:11
  Marco: And you're like, oh, uh, the only terrible thing is that everything
• 54:14
  Tracy: is okay.
• 54:15
  Tracy: It's though, isn't it?
• 54:16
  Tracy: When you can see it in that way, it's like.
• 54:19
  Tracy: Oh, oh yeah.
• 54:21
  Tracy: When something uncomfortable happens and you think, right,
• 54:27
  Marco: because in the moment it feels like it's never ending, but when you have this awareness, it's like, oh, it's temporary.
• 54:32
  Marco: Just enjoy it.
• 54:34
  Marco: And, and it's also like, uh, if you're, if it's great.
• 54:38
  Marco: Enjoy it because it's gonna end.
• 54:40
  Marco: If it's terrible, enjoy it because it's gonna end.
• 54:44
  Marco: Now, at this moment, after my, my closeness to death through my father, I'm really, uh, feeling it and really appreciate it.
• 54:53
  Marco: You know, it's like, uh, everything's gonna end.
• 54:56
  Marco: So just, just let's go.
• 54:57
  Marco: Uh, like, uh, Frankenstein tells, uh, to the monster, uh, when he asked Father, what should I do with my life?
• 55:05
  Marco: And he answered, just go and leave.
• 55:07
  Marco: I was like, oh, thank you.
• 55:09
  Marco: Let's do that.
• 55:10
  Marco: So thank you very much.
• 55:11
  Marco: Really, really, I really appreciate, I love to talk to you and I love this, uh, connections of souls.
• 55:18
  Marco: I really appreciate that.
• 55:19
  Marco: You know, like, uh, knowing that we are not alone, there's always somebody.
• 55:25
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 55:26
  Tracy: What is it?
• 55:27
  Tracy: Keep shining your weird light so other weirdos can find you.
• 55:31
  Marco: Great.
• 55:33
  Marco: Yay.
• 55:33
  Marco: Let's do it.
• 55:35
  Marco: I love that.
• 55:36
  Marco: Let's do that.
• 55:37
  Marco: Yeah.
• 55:38
  Marco: Yeah.
• 55:38
  Marco: Brilliant.
• 55:39
  Marco: Thank you, Michael.
• 55:41
  Marco: Thank you very much.
• 55:44
  Tracy: Thank you for listening.
• 55:45
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 55:50
  Tracy: You'll find me at Tracy dot Cartwright.
• 55:53
  Tracy: That's Tracy with no e dot Cartwright and the or head over to my website, Tracy cartwright.co.nz and receive a free audio with the gift from your ancestors.
• 56:06
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.