Latest / The Mookse and the Gripes Podcast / Episode 96: Our Favorite Books We Read in 2024, Part II

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Episode 96: Our Favorite Books We Read in 2024, Part II · The Mookse and the Gripes Podcast

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: This is the Mooks and the Gripes podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, everybody.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: This is Trevor.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: And standing under the mistletoe, Paul.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Paul, how are you doing today?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: Who are you waiting for?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm doing well.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: Boy, that's a spicy start.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm a little on the spot here.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I guess I really only have one answer.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: No, all good, all good.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you didn't know you were standing under the mistletoe.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: That happens.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's true, it's true.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: It sounds like a meet-cute kind of setup or something.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Excellent.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's so good to be back.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone, we are excited today.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: We get to do our top five reads of the year,
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: following up off of our two-parter that started with our ten through six.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: And last week,
• 1:01
  Paul and I were able to release another bonus episode for our
• 1:05
  Patreon and Substack supporters.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's pretty NYRB Classics forward.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't intentional, but it went into a lot of different areas, but...
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, NYRB Classics was definitely a big part of that episode.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: I guess if we get off the leash,
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: we're bound to go to two or three different places,
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: and one of the main ones is NYRB,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: so I shouldn't shock anyone,
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: but yeah,
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: it was a lot of fun.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: It was...
• 1:33
  We did a little bookshelf dive and figured out,
• 1:37
  you know,
• 1:38
  how many we had and stuff.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it was pretty fun.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: I liked it.
• 1:42
  Did inspire me partially to finally use library thing to
• 1:46
  catalog my bookshelves.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because...
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: I have a good idea of what I have, but not everything.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it's nice to be able to sit down and look at it on a catalog,
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: especially when like NYRB Classics sales come up,
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: for example.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Again, pretty sure I know what I don't have and what I do have.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: But it's getting harder to get older.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: I have noticed that myself.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it is nice.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad you did that.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: I was going to ask you, did you complete the project?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, no.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I didn't figure.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: It takes a while,
• 2:23
  even with their new handy dandy scanner that makes it so much
• 2:27
  easier than it used
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: to be when you had to type in every ISBN.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that scanner is nice.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: It can do multiple books at a time.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I didn't know that.
• 2:37
  Yeah,
• 2:38
  I did it by accident because I put a few books down and I had
• 2:43
  multiple ISBNs showing.
• 2:46
  And I moved my phone over there and it started loading up books
• 2:50
  as I was going over them.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it works better than I'm comfortable using it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's awesome.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: it also comes in handy to have your library thing catalog when,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: people are asking if you already like for a gift or thing like that.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like if they want to know if you already have books,
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: like my wife will sometimes use that because she's like,
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what you have.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm always afraid I'm going to get you a duplicate.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: So it comes in handy for that, too.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, a bit of a confession here.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: My wife, as everyone knows, works at the library.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: And they got a donation of Richard Powers' The Overstory in paperback.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: I knew I had that book at one time, but I didn't know I still had it.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so I said, oh, pick that up for me, Paul.
• 3:39
  I,
• 3:39
  you know,
• 3:40
  I didn't think I'd read it,
• 3:41
  but Paul loves it and keeps telling me I should.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, pick that up for me while she gets home.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: And the other day she's in my office doing her thing.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know how she was able to spy it on the shelf.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's not, it's, it's not the, it's a hardback.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's not the clearest thing.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of in a corner.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if she was like,
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: mistrustful and had to look or if it just,
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: just popped out.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: She is good at seeing things though.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: She's really good at spotting things.
• 4:11
  Yeah.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: And there it is.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I've got two copies of The Overstory now.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 4:17
  Yeah,
• 4:17
  I've noticed that wives and women in general,
• 4:20
  I think,
• 4:21
  tend to have that eagle eye.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're looking for something in the fridge.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: You look for 10 minutes, can't find it.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: They walk over.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's right there.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: The thing is, my books are in alphabetical order for the most part.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so I know exactly where it's supposed to be.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: And we can't find it when she's going to show me.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Because again, it's really hard to see.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know how it jumped out and grabbed her that day.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty funny.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: Book gremlins, I guess.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: Someone delighted by that.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: But why don't we get into our episode?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: And we thought it might be fun today.
• 4:59
  We again have many guests who have provided us with some of
• 5:05
  their top reads of the year.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: some of their favorite reading experiences that we want to share.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: And last week, we started with John's self.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know how many people know this,
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: people mostly know that we've known John's self for a long time.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: But
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a really long time,
• 5:27
  partially because of a great online forum that we were a part
• 5:31
  of called Palimpsest.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: We've brought it up.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: We've said Palimpsest a few times.
• 5:36
  And maybe if you didn't know what we were talking about,
• 5:39
  you didn't even hear us say it.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:42
  But several of our other palimpsest friends have provided us
• 5:46
  some written responses
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: to our query.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought it might be fun to start with them today.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: There are three of them beyond John,
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: who started last week's,
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: who provided us with some of their favorite reads.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: So let's get to it.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't know these folks,
• 6:05
  they're still fantastic friends and fantastic people to follow
• 6:09
  online in their
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: various places.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's not the same as Palimpsest,
• 6:12
  where you could just go into an old forum together and banter
• 6:18
  for a while.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to find those these days.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: I miss it.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: But...
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: This is from our good friend Stuart.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: And do you want to read Stuart's, Paul?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: I cannot do justice.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: Last year he read and he has his lovely Scottish brogue,
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: but I'm not going to try to impersonate that.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: That would just be embarrassing.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, thank you, Stuart.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: And Stuart says 2024 hasn't been the most prolific reading year for me,
• 6:45
  but it was the year I turned to Jan Fossa following his Nobel
• 6:48
  Prize in the prior year.
• 6:50
  I tried peppering my reading with his available books
• 6:53
  throughout the year,
• 6:54
  working my way up from the slimmest with an eye on the eventual
• 6:56
  prize of septology.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: While I never made it that far,
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: I did get through A Shining,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Boathouses,
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: Scenes from a Childhood,
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: Trilogy,
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: and Alice at the Fire.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: But my favorite was definitely Morning and Evening,
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: a short tale about a man's life told only from its two major landmarks,
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: birth and death.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's a hypnotic and haunting review of a life lived,
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: rooted outside of time,
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: that sees its narrator go about his last day,
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: encountering those who have impacted him in some way.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like all the Fossa I've read,
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: it often feels slight,
• 7:29
  but he has an exciting knack for giving only basic details that
• 7:33
  somehow read like
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: the finest brushstrokes.
• 7:35
  Definitely a writer I'm looking forward to reading more from as
• 7:38
  soon as I can,
• 7:39
  and one I'm very likely to return to in future as the deceptive
• 7:42
  simplicity of the
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: work feels open to various interpretations.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Stuart.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Jan Fossa is one that I have not...
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: I've read a couple of bits.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: I read the first part of Septology and I've read a couple of other ones,
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: but yeah,
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: he's one that I feel the same way.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: Every time I read him,
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like,
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: I need to read the rest,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: but I have not yet gotten around to doing it.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's a great entry.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and the one that he recommends morning and evening is so good.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's the,
• 8:13
  what's the one that I brought up on our Fossa episode that we
• 8:17
  had with his translator,
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: Damien Cyril's.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: recommend that episode if you haven't heard it yet.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: That was a lot of fun.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: I also have not made it to Septology yet.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: I have it.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to read it, but I have it yet.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm waiting, I guess.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to prep for it.
• 8:38
  I did my usual dumb thing where I read the first couple and
• 8:42
  then figured I'd get
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: back to the next ones shortly thereafter and have not yet done it.
• 8:47
  So I'll probably end up just starting at the beginning again,
• 8:49
  which is definitely not an issue.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to introduce our next one?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: Our next one, like we said, is another great palimpsest friend.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: She is someone who I still love to stay in touch with.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: And just, it's so cool.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: These online relationships where you started,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 9:06
  20 years ago at a certain stage in your life and you get to
• 9:09
  kind of follow and see
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: how everybody's lives play out.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I always love checking in with,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: as we know her,
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: calling born and also short,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: short for,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: or we say call a lot of the time.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, yep.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to read calls?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: She says,
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: this year I've skittered about with styles of books,
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: crime thrillers,
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: a couple of reliable children's writers,
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: children's laureate Frank Cottrell Boyce,
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Philip Reeve,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: and the late Kate Saunders,
• 9:34
  plus some very unsatisfactory book group reads with the little
• 9:38
  group I've hosted
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: for the last 21 years.
• 9:41
  What has grabbed my attention most and endured in the memory
• 9:45
  were two rereads and
• 9:46
  revisiting an author I had only tinkered with before now and
• 9:50
  almost completing a
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: classic author's fiction oeuvre.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: The author I will carry with me into 2025 is Lionel Shriver.
• 9:58
  I had read We Need to Talk About Kevin back in the early
• 10:01
  noughties when it was
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: first published,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: but I had never chanced to invest in any other books by her,
• 10:08
  even though I was increasingly interested recently in her take
• 10:11
  on literary
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: censorship and the debate about cultural appropriation.
• 10:16
  Reading so much for that and to Big Brother this autumn has
• 10:19
  convinced me of the
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: power of her insight in writing.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Big Brother evoked a terrifically visceral response,
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: not so much as to the weightiness of the character,
• 10:28
  but the relationship dynamics distorting and ballooning in that
• 10:31
  fictional family.
• 10:33
  I am now rereading We Need to Talk about Kevin and seeing how
• 10:37
  that work anticipates
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: some of her later stories.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: I read two books concerning faith and religion.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: One,
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: the superb,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: if dense,
• 10:45
  account of pre- and post-Reformation religious practice in
• 10:49
  England by Professor
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Eamon Duffy,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: The Stripping of the Altars.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then, George Eliot's Scenes of Clerical Life.
• 10:58
  Almost my last Eliot,
• 10:59
  I'm saving Daniel Deronda for my summer holiday,
• 11:02
  2025.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: As I am married to a Church of England priest or vicar,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: My two rereads begin with the sheer depth of engagement,
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: fascination,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: joy,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: intrigue,
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: and world-building that is derived from A.S.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: Byatt's possession.
• 11:37
  I need to convince my family to read it and love it,
• 11:40
  but the film adaptation is a poor affair.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: The second in superseding it is almost my favorite and top read ever.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: Parade's End by Ford Maddox Ford.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: This would be my fourth reread,
• 11:53
  and the richness and power of the narrative and the person of
• 11:55
  Christopher Teachin
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: is both spellbinding and moving.
• 12:00
  It doesn't put a foot wrong either in delivering an account of
• 12:04
  the Great War,
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: its sunny days before,
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: and changed world after,
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: but the repercussions on the people we come to love through its pages,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_03: Christopher and Valentine,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: and Mark as principal narrator of the final chapter.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much, Carl.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's so good to hear,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: honestly,
• 12:22
  to get a long written response from some of our Palinth friends
• 12:26
  because we weren't
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: limited by characters in the old days.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: It feels very familiar.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: It actually makes me feel a little bad.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: I have a confession to make call.
• 12:35
  She recommended Parades End to me clear back in those days and
• 12:38
  I bought it and have still not.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you hated it.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've never read it.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: She's on her fourth reread and I still need to read it.
• 12:46
  So maybe this is the year I'm going to,
• 12:49
  I'm not going to promise,
• 12:49
  but that does inspire me.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, that's fun.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: I have only read a few of the ones that she recommended.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm also saving Daniel Duranda for next year.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think we started in maybe May with my Elliot book group read.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm excited for that.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I also have not yet read.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't put Scenes of Clerical Life in the read-along.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so I keep thinking, oh, in one of these breaks, I'll read it.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: But then someone got me reading
• 13:18
  uh,
• 13:19
  some book like David Copperfield or something like that,
• 13:21
  which is quite lengthy.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm still, I just passed the page 700.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm, I'm, I'm just, uh, zipping to the end.
• 13:30
  Not,
• 13:30
  not,
• 13:31
  not because I'm not liking it or zipping because I'm trying to
• 13:34
  get through the end.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's just, you know, I know it's coming and,
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really enjoying it, by the way.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, good.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: That someone is probably very glad to hear that.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, good.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love it.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, go ahead.
• 13:47
  Oh,
• 13:47
  I was just going to say,
• 13:48
  our next guest,
• 13:49
  always a little bit fiery in a fun way.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know...
• 13:55
  It's kind of fun to,
• 13:57
  I mean,
• 13:57
  how do you picture these people in your brains,
• 13:59
  Paul?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 14:01
  I do have very specific ideas and I've known this guy long
• 14:04
  enough that I have a
• 14:05
  pretty good idea that he is sitting somewhere with a pile of
• 14:08
  cats and a pile of
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: books on his lap with a sandwich,
• 14:12
  a tasty homemade sandwich sitting right next to him and either
• 14:14
  watching a movie or
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: reading a book.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's how I picture Bill.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: And looking just maybe just a little bit like Vincent Price.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think so.
• 14:26
  Just think of the way that we get to know people sometimes by
• 14:30
  their avatars as well,
• 14:32
  as well as just the ways that we have seen them and interacted
• 14:37
  with them to know that.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: Bill is forever,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: in a way,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: Vincent Price,
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: looking a little bit disdainfully at the world around him.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: And he's also,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'll just add,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: one of the best people to talk about and write about horror,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: the genre of horror.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: He,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: for years,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: would do,
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: every October,
• 15:01
  this wonderful project where he would delve into all these
• 15:03
  different horror books
• 15:05
  and short stories that is another thing that I'll forever
• 15:07
  associate with him.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: And he writes...
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: he writes lengthy and insightfully.
• 15:18
  I remember he kind of spread out of our sphere when he did a
• 15:23
  review of it's a mad,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: mad,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: mad,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: mad,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: mad,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: mad world when criterion released it.
• 15:28
  And one of his things he puts in there is,
• 15:30
  you know,
• 15:30
  everyone says comedy is subjective.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know that,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: you,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: you might not like this particular movie,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: but it's just comedy is subjective.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: Other people love it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, no, it's no more subjective than drama.
• 15:45
  or romance or you know if it has something you like maybe
• 15:48
  you'll like it but we can
• 15:50
  also evaluate it and let's get down to work and he just trashes
• 15:53
  the movie yeah he's
• 15:57
  always good for a spicy take that's right i love it i do too
• 16:00
  all right well um
• 16:03
  let's see i read cole's uh rather lengthy one do you want to
• 16:08
  read bill's rather
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: lengthy one too yep let's do it bill says
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: One day,
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: close to 30 years ago,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: when I worked at my then local library,
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: I came across a book called Frog by Stephen Dixon.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's a squat, thick little book, which intrigued me immediately.
• 16:23
  I then spent a portion of my life from then to now buying
• 16:26
  random books by Stephen
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: Dixon and letting them collect dust.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Until this year,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: that is,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: when I finally gave Dixon,
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: whose work I'd previously been intimidated by,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: a shot.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't read Frog, but rather a later novel by Dixon called I,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: Published in 2002, I is a very curious book.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: It is,
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: I suppose,
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: a novel made up of interconnected stories about a man,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: a writer with two daughters and a severely disabled wife.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: This is true of Dixon as well.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: His wife,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Anne Freidman,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: a college professor,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: had multiple sclerosis and spent much of her life in a wheelchair.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: In I,
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: this situation is described by Dixon in almost excruciating detail,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: though in different stories,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: Dixon will approach it differently.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: For example,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: in the story,
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: The Switch,
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: it is not the wife who's disabled,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: but rather the husband.
• 17:12
  The title of the story should indicate that Dixon is working
• 17:15
  something out here,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: and in fact,
• 17:16
  The Switch turns out to be one of the most self-damning short
• 17:20
  stories I've ever read.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Though the roles are reversed,
• 17:23
  it is through this story and this method that the reader learns
• 17:26
  that the writer
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: character has a lot of anger inside him,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: which shockingly he sometimes takes out on his wife.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: Not physically.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: He never abuses her or his daughters,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: but when helping his wife in the most intimate ways,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: he's not shy about expressing his frustrations over his own hardships.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Which,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: of course,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: has the result of humiliating his wife,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: hurting her feelings,
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: making her impossible situation even more difficult.
• 17:48
  Dixon tells us this by putting the writer character into the
• 17:51
  wife's shoes.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: This was possibly true of Dixon himself,
• 17:55
  though it is dangerous when reading fiction to assume too much
• 17:57
  about the writer's motives.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: Still,
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: the biographical details can't be shaken off so easily,
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: and these aspects of the character,
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: his worst flaws,
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: are a recurrent theme in I.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Another story,
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: The Apology,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: imagines or recreates,
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: through dialogue,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: a series of encounters between the writer and one of his daughters.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: In each instance,
• 18:16
  the father is apologizing to his daughter for having been sharp
• 18:19
  and rude with her earlier.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: As the story progresses,
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: the daughter becomes less and less impressed with her father's apologies,
• 18:25
  and the father becomes more and more certain that he is mostly
• 18:28
  to blame for any
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: difficulties in his familial relationships and that he must change.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: Not every story in I addresses these ideas.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: The first story,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Paris,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: is about the writer's time spent living in that city and his inability,
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: for financial reasons among other things,
• 18:43
  to ever visit the Chinese restaurant housed in the same
• 18:46
  building as his apartment.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: Paris is sort of lightly melancholy overall,
• 18:51
  but it also introduces an approach that Dixon will return to
• 18:53
  again and again.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: At one point in the story,
• 18:56
  the writer imagines actually making it to the restaurant and
• 18:59
  meeting a young woman there.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: It didn't happen.
• 19:01
  It's fiction even within this fictional story,
• 19:04
  but feels real and immediate.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Another story,
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: Author,
• 19:08
  deals with the author's passive-aggressive feelings about the
• 19:10
  death of a famous
• 19:11
  author whom he had met and largely been ignored by several
• 19:14
  times over the years.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: But there's also something self-condemnatory about the stories in I,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: regardless of what they're about.
• 19:21
  The writer's anger,
• 19:23
  his temper,
• 19:23
  his self-centered recklessness appear again and again.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: The error begins with this line, how to explain this behavior.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: Throughout I,
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: Dixon seems to be trying to understand his own impulses,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: frustrations,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: his own internal,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: roiling fury.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: He's angry at himself in these stories,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: or at least his character is,
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: but crucially,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: day-to-day life continues.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: I is funny,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: too,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: in a postmodern,
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: metafictional kind of way,
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: despite or because of the book's title.
• 19:51
  The stories often switch from first person to third person,
• 19:54
  sometimes within the same story.
• 19:55
  And Dixon's way of announcing these changes are often amusing
• 19:58
  because we're let
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: into his mind,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: but not necessarily in any kind of deep or revealing way.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: It becomes a practical matter, one to be dealt with on a technical level.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: If that sounds too complicated to be funny,
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: Dixon executes these moments with a tossed-off,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: casual attitude that helps to lighten the tone from time to time.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: Years after I came out, Dixon wrote a follow-up called The End of I,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't read it yet,
• 20:21
  but I think we can agree that that title suggests that an even
• 20:23
  stronger pessimism
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: has taken hold of Dixon by then.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe, maybe not, but I will read it and find out.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much, Bill.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, Trevor, it is.
• 20:34
  It's like visiting those old forums where you would have these
• 20:37
  amazingly insightful
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: and wonderful looks into all these books.
• 20:40
  And it was just one of the things that helped my reading life
• 20:43
  blossom was just
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: hearing from all these
• 20:46
  fascinating and intelligent people and just their different
• 20:49
  tastes are so varied
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: and so interesting that there was always a wealth of recommendations.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: And that's kind of what this feels like, too.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: So thanks so much, Bill.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can you can see why we bring up those times so often.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: They were very influential on us.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: I've got lots of book recommendations,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: lots of my favorite books started with a post like that.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: That made me go, I've got to get that book right now.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: So fun.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's get to ours, Paul.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: Start out with your number five.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to hear what you got.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: I have no ideas here.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think my top five could have a couple surprises for you.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: So number five for me is The Maniac by Benjamin Labatute.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: So at various points,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: we've talked a lot about Labatute's previous brilliant book,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: When We Cease to Understand the World.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: which,
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 21:43
  delves into all the messy connections between scientific
• 21:47
  discovery and genius,
• 21:48
  but also the unintended consequences and fallout and some of
• 21:52
  the kind of the murky
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: morality of quote unquote progress.
• 21:55
  And it also does a fascinating thing where it seamlessly blends
• 21:59
  fiction and nonfiction,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: which again,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: we've talked about a little bit,
• 22:01
  but it doesn't necessarily give the reader many hints or ideas
• 22:05
  about which is which
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: or where those lines within the book
• 22:09
  lie and this one in many ways covers some of the same ground um
• 22:15
  but it does it in
• 22:18
  It's enough the same that I feel confident that anybody who
• 22:20
  liked the first book
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: would also like this one.
• 22:22
  But it's also one of those where it's no reason not to read
• 22:25
  this one because it
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: does all kinds of different and interesting things.
• 22:28
  So this one is mostly focused on kind of the dawn of the
• 22:31
  nuclear age and its impact
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: both at the time as well as in the following decades up till now,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: some of the consequences from that.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: So this one is divided into three main sections.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: And the first one is about a physicist named Paul Ehrenfest.
• 22:46
  and it kind of delves into his various you know troubled
• 22:48
  relationships both
• 22:49
  personal and professional as he lives and works and kind of
• 22:53
  deals with his own
• 22:54
  conflicts and despair as the rise of the nazi party takes place
• 22:58
  in germany
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then the second section,
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: which is by far the largest section,
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: is divided up into three sections.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: And all of them are focused on a man named John von Neumann.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: And he was a mathematical genius and kind of a polymath.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it just kind of talks about his life.
• 23:13
  A big part of it is made up of different interviews with people
• 23:16
  from his life,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: including members of his family,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: his various wives over the years,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: friends,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: co-workers,
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: and that kind of thing.
• 23:23
  And this section is just really covers a ton of ground from his
• 23:27
  work in mathematics
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: to his eventual work with Oppenheimer on the Manhattan Project.
• 23:32
  And then it takes some interesting turns into game theory and
• 23:36
  ideas around mutual
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: assured destruction and things like that.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: So it's big and varied.
• 23:41
  And then the end of the book takes what seems like kind of a
• 23:44
  sharp right turn,
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: and it starts to look into the repercussions of artificial intelligence,
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: which I was not expecting.
• 23:51
  And it kind of does it through the lens of both chess and the
• 23:54
  Japanese game known
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: as Go,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: which is really interesting.
• 23:57
  It talks about some real life things that happened around that
• 23:59
  that I think...
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: found surprisingly compelling.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, my description sounds a little scattershot.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe to some readers, it may not sound all that appealing.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because honestly,
• 24:09
  if I heard somebody talking about mathematics and AI and things
• 24:12
  like that,
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: I might be like,
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if this is for me,
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: but...
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: Just like with his previous book,
• 24:17
  he has this humanity and this beauty in his writing as he's
• 24:21
  talking about quote
• 24:22
  unquote great men and madness and kind of the impacts of
• 24:26
  obsession and genius that
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: is just so interesting.
• 24:28
  So just to give people an idea that there is beautiful writing
• 24:33
  within this book,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: here's a couple of very short quotes.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: The first one says,
• 24:37
  lost faith is worse than no faith at all because it leaves
• 24:40
  behind a gaping hole,
• 24:41
  much like the hollow that the spirit left when it abandoned
• 24:44
  this accursed world.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: But by their very nature,
• 24:47
  those God-shaped voids demand to be filled with something as
• 24:50
  precious as that which
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: was lost.
• 24:52
  The choice of that something,
• 24:54
  if indeed it is a choice at all,
• 24:56
  rules the destiny of men.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: I thought that was amazing.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then one more real fast one.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: We don't know what comes after evil, do we?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes the deadliest things,
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: those that hold enough power to destroy us,
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: can become,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: given time,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: the instruments of our salvation.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: So again,
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: I know that that covered a lot of ground,
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: but I hope that those last two quotes,
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: if nothing else,
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: will give you an idea of just,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: he is an amazing writer.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, Trevor, you haven't read this one, right?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: But you've read his own.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you have read this one, okay.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's a little bit weird.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: I got an early, early, early E arc.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say like 10 months before it even came out.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was a long time and I read it then and was just,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: you,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: you say it so well,
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: it's the personal stories.
• 25:44
  It's the impact of all this that it had,
• 25:46
  not just on the,
• 25:47
  not just the repercussions on us.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's there.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's all there.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:51
  But also it makes it very personal when you see that just the
• 25:54
  thinking about all
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: this stuff,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: the people who developed it,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: where it,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: drove them.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's so good.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: In fact,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it so much,
• 26:03
  but I'd read it by the time it came out so long ago that I went
• 26:06
  and bought it the
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: day it came out with the intention of rereading it.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I haven't done that yet, but you definitely make me want to.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, because...
• 26:16
  I actually liked this one more than When We Cease to Understand
• 26:20
  the World.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: But I think When We Cease to Understand the World,
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: especially with its title,
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: kind of primed me for this one,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: if that makes sense.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's exactly right.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: No,
• 26:30
  it's a fascinating relationship between the two books because
• 26:33
  there is a lot of commonalities,
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: but they are very much standalone and both are well worth reading.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I love that.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: I remember when you said you were reading it,
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: but we've never really sat down and talked about it.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: A little surprise appearance.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 26:52
  I don't think that you read this one that's my number five
• 26:55
  during the NYRB Women 24 year,
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: but I could be wrong.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: I read it on holiday.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes that affects how much you're enjoying a book.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I loved it.
• 27:06
  This is Elizabeth Taylor's A Game of Hide and Seek,
• 27:11
  which we read in June.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it's my fifth Elizabeth Taylor.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I've read she has, I think, 10 novels.
• 27:21
  um and this one's my fifth one and it's right up there at the
• 27:26
  top uh top tier for
• 27:27
  me um this is a book that at the very start introduces us to
• 27:32
  two 18 year olds
• 27:34
  harriet and vesey and they're who we're going to follow over
• 27:38
  the course of the
• 27:38
  whole novel but here's the the to me just opening where you're
• 27:45
  like here we go i'm
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: so excited to get into this world
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes in the long summer's evenings,
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: which are so marked a part of youth,
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: Harriet and Vesey played hide and seek with the younger children,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: running across the tufted meadows,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: their shoes yellow with the pollen of buttercups.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: They could not run fast across those uneven fields,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: nor did they wish to,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: since to find the hiding children was to lose their time together.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: To run faster was to run away from one another.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: So...
• 28:17
  we get to know these two and they're kind of youthful
• 28:21
  attraction and crush.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: And,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: it's their first love,
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: but you know,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: things pull them apart,
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: but then things bring them back together and then apart.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then together, it's very much a game of hide and seek.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: And as Elizabeth Taylor does,
• 28:39
  she also tells us their story by focusing on how their
• 28:45
  relationship impacts their
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: the lives of the people around them,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: their loved ones,
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: in particular Harriet's husband,
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: Charles,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: and her daughter.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: They play a major role when we see Harriet and Vesey,
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: who honestly are often unhappy and unhappiest when together.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: But there are reasons for that, you know, of course.
• 29:16
  There's the pool and the youth that they had together that I'm
• 29:22
  sure appeals to them,
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: but also the life that could have been.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: This is a really fantastic book that I took my time with.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: I read it again on holiday,
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: but I remember just reading slowly this one,
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: rereading passages before moving on.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: just love Elizabeth Taylor's work so much.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I do too.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And no,
• 29:46
  I didn't read that one and I don't actually remember why
• 29:48
  because I feel like I've
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: been wanting to read more of her stuff because I've loved the ones,
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: like you said,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: Mrs.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: Palfrey and Angel among others.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Which is next year's, I think.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: Angel is next year's, which is one I have not read.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm so excited about that.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: I love that one.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:04
  So anyway,
• 30:04
  this,
• 30:05
  I don't know what made me miss that,
• 30:06
  but it sounds absolutely wonderful.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think, um,
• 30:09
  I might have to be a rebel and go outside the group and read
• 30:12
  that one in 2025 instead.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: Sir, you missed the boat, Paul.
• 30:15
  You were left on shore and I don't know when that boat's coming
• 30:18
  around again.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't either.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: I know it happens.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: Just get into your dinghy.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: Paddle away and catch up.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: There you are.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, I, I, I, whenever you get to it, I know that you'll enjoy it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: At least I think you will.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's, it's lovely.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: what is your number four?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: So my number four is one of the most,
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: I guess I would say unexpected and pleasant surprises of my reading year.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 30:44
  I didn't know much of anything about it when it first came in
• 30:47
  the mail and it was
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: part of my New York or sorry,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: of my new direction subscription.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: And the book is it lasts forever.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's over by Anne DeMarcan.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: I read this book shortly after it came out,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: like I said,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: not knowing much,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: if anything about it.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: And this book,
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 31:02
  has stuck with me as much or maybe more than almost any other
• 31:05
  book I've read this year.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: On the surface,
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: I guess it's a kind of a dystopian post-apocalyptic novel,
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: but man,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: it is so much more than that.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's always tricky to know how much to say about a book like this one,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: because when you got so much out of it from knowing so little,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to spoil that for anybody,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: but I'm going to do my best here to tread carefully.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen the word zombie come up at times when describing it,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: and I don't know how I feel about that,
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: but I really like a description I saw on the New Direction site,
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: which called it instead a quote,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: life after death novel.
• 31:39
  And I also saw that the panel for the Ursula Le Guin Prize
• 31:43
  described it as,
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: quote,
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: written in the guise of a zombie novel,
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: which I really liked.
• 31:47
  So,
• 31:47
  I mean,
• 31:48
  yes,
• 31:48
  the narrator is alive in the afterlife,
• 31:51
  as she's described.
• 31:52
  But this book is so far from what you think of as a
• 31:54
  stereotypical kind of zombie or
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: walking dead premise.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact,
• 31:58
  I think it's just incredibly poignant and beautiful as we spend
• 32:02
  time with the
• 32:02
  narrator as she kind of makes her way west across this barren
• 32:06
  and often very brutal landscape.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: But despite the premise,
• 32:10
  there's so much in this relatively slim little book about love
• 32:14
  and loss and memory
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: and mortality and humanity.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: And again,
• 32:19
  I wanted to kind of read a few excerpts just to give listeners
• 32:23
  a better idea,
• 32:24
  because one of the things that I think is so that propels this
• 32:27
  book past what it
• 32:28
  could have been is the delicate language and the beauty and the
• 32:32
  poignancy of it.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: So just a couple of excerpts here.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: It says, I don't miss my name and I haven't bothered to replace it.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: I miss your name.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry, but I've forgotten it, too.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: I don't look for it on the walls.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: The thought that I might read it and pass it by.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: Just to go on to the next name is terrible,
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: like meeting you in another life and failing to recognize you.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then another one.
• 32:55
  I realize now that when I was playing these silent movies of
• 32:57
  life after our life,
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: you were still there.
• 33:00
  You were sitting with me,
• 33:01
  the two of us alone in the theater,
• 33:03
  still together.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: This sadness is not an empty church and not an empty house.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: It is the whole empty world and I am in it and it is in me.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then the last one.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's gone.
• 33:17
  That one thing I knew about myself,
• 33:19
  that thing that made me,
• 33:20
  me,
• 33:21
  alone in all the universe.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: I've lost it.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: This is what I want to tell you.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: Composed, decomposed.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: We are unbound.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: We are hungry because we are endless.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: We are endless because it's too late.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's all over.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's all gone.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just thought those three,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 33:41
  they're just give you an idea of just the loss and kind of the
• 33:47
  loneliness and
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: emptiness that's in this book.
• 33:49
  but also like the beauty and the poignancy as this person kind
• 33:54
  of remembers the
• 33:55
  life that was and the people who were in that life while still
• 33:58
  trying to deal with
• 33:59
  what's happening in this kind of new bizarre reality that she's
• 34:03
  dealing with.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, this book, it just, I don't know.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: It, I know I use the word haunts me a lot, but it really does.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's one of those that,
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: like I said,
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: I,
• 34:12
  for having known nothing about it and it kind of just fell out
• 34:15
  of the sky for me,
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: I,
• 34:18
  can't believe the impact that it has made on me and my wife
• 34:21
  read it and loved it.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: I know that you read it right too.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'll share my thoughts in a minute, Paul.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: Gotcha.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I didn't mean to, but yes.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: I did it again,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: but yeah,
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: no,
• 34:35
  I think this could be one of those years where that might
• 34:37
  happen a couple of times,
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: but yeah,
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: we'll talk about it more.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I'm excited.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: This is fun.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: I'm delighted that it's on your list.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: On my review, I put two of those quotes on it, which is kind of fun.
• 34:51
  It shows how poignant those are,
• 34:53
  but also might suggest that those are the only ones.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: We just pulled out the highlights.
• 34:57
  This book is chock full of...
• 34:59
  My copy,
• 35:00
  I had highlighted enough that I really probably...
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: The parts that stand out are the parts that aren't highlighted.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm the same way.
• 35:08
  I've been using those little flags and tabs and it looks like a porcupine.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And again,
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: it's not a very thick book,
• 35:14
  but it's just packed from the first to the last page with all
• 35:17
  kinds of beauty and
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: things like that.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
• 35:21
  Well,
• 35:22
  my book four of the year is one that I believe you got in the
• 35:27
  mail this past week,
• 35:29
  Paul.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: It is the unselected journals of M M lion.
• 35:33
  And I'll put volume one,
• 35:34
  just as you know,
• 35:35
  that's the place to start by Beth Brower.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mentioned this at the time I read it almost exactly a year ago.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: It was,
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: I don't remember if it was over the Christmas holiday,
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: but I know that I used Christmas money to go and buy all of them.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's because my wife,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: was at the library and the patron came in and said,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: Hey,
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: do you guys have these books?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: And they didn't, but they ordered them all.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: Is there a cool library like that?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it had seven books in the series.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: And my wife,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: she'd been hearing about it so long that she's like,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: okay,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: I finally ought to start to read this.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: And she would read me some passages.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sitting there just like, I need to read this book.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: This is so delightful.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: And yet there's more to it.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: It is a delightful book.
• 36:21
  It's a book about,
• 36:23
  well,
• 36:23
  it's the journals of a young woman named Emma M.
• 36:27
  Lyon.
• 36:29
  It starts on March 1st of 1883,
• 36:34
  and each book is essentially two months of journal entries.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: And she's just moved back to her old neighborhood of St.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: Crispian's and into the home that will be hers when she turns 21.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: But for years,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: it's been under the care,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: if you want to call it care,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: of her cousin Archibald,
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_03: who has some resentment on his part as to the whole arrangement.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: She is witty.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: She's funny.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: And the people in her world in the St.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: Crispians are eccentric and yet familiar.
• 37:07
  Those things where you read them and you're like,
• 37:08
  that's kind of a crazy person.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_03: That is my aunt to a T or my brother to a T or me to a T. Dang it.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: These little things.
• 37:19
  And it's just fun to read her musings on these people because
• 37:23
  she's delighted,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: by her own wit to an extent.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: But she is processing great loss.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: There's a reason she has a guardian until she turns 21.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: And she is in this uncertain time and place.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just that there is so much heart in this as well.
• 37:47
  And some of the beautiful passages,
• 37:49
  I was just like,
• 37:51
  wow,
• 37:52
  that is heartfelt and lovely.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: And the eighth volume just came out a few weeks ago.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: Very cool.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: Someone was kind enough to send me a copy of that.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: No,
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: as listeners may remember,
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: and people on social media,
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor and I exchange some holiday gifts every year.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you'll be shocked to hear that often those include books.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: I cannot wait.
• 38:20
  Cause I remember you talking about it and how much you and your
• 38:22
  wife enjoyed it and
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: just the whole premise and setup sounds so wonderful.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: Did you said the age one just came out?
• 38:28
  Have you heard is that,
• 38:29
  is there plans for like a arc or is it just ongoing or?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I want to tell you this, Paul or listeners.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: However, she, she has,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's planned.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: And she puts it lovely.
• 38:46
  She says,
• 38:47
  I know where the ship is going,
• 38:49
  but I don't always know the weather in these books.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: So she has a plan.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: She is meticulous.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: She knows what her books are going to be.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: 24 books, I think, is the plan.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: So what you're saying is you got me in on the ground floor of something.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's essentially four years of journal entries, I believe.
• 39:15
  Yeah,
• 39:16
  because every year is six books and essentially four years of these.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: And again,
• 39:21
  I have faith in her because she clearly isn't just sitting down
• 39:33
  and writing the
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: next one.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think she's always working on all of them.
• 39:38
  It just knows where the things are going and you can kind of
• 39:41
  see that it's,
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: it's,
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: it's,
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: it's impressive to me.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the characters are so well-developed.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: it's,
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: it's similar to something like I'd say a Jane Austen or,
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 39:53
  think of some of your favorite authors where you just get into
• 39:56
  their world and the
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: characters come alive.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: You'd know them even from just a few sentences,
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: Anthony Trollope or,
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: Dickens,
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: things like that.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 40:07
  Sounds like she's got a little Brandon Sanderson in her where
• 40:09
  she has that ability
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: to kind of...
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: You said it.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I did.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: I had to tick that bingo off.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: But no, I think it's just impressive to me when there are authors.
• 40:19
  And what you said gives me more excitement and faith in the
• 40:22
  process because it can
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: get away from people in a bigger series like that.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: But somebody like that who has it all laid out and planned,
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: that sounds really appealing and lovely.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, another thing that I don't necessarily...
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's fine to disclose this.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: This is not a problem.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know her.
• 40:37
  And I didn't know her when I started the books and fell in love
• 40:41
  with them.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I have met her since.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it was at a library event.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: She lives not too far away from here.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: And people came from all over once they heard about it.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: She put like, hey, I'm going to be at this library event.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't do it at the library.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: They had to do it in a school.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: It was chock full.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was helping.
• 41:01
  I had to keep on bringing in more and more and more and more
• 41:04
  and more chairs as
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: people were like,
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: I came from Washington or I came from Mexico,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: things like that.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: Arizona, the people were coming, flocking in to see her.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it was also kind of fun because I hung out afterwards.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: she's signing books and doing all this.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I spoke to her husband a little bit.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so I've,
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't,
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: and I've not talked to either of them since like,
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: this isn't,
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't start a relationship and like pursue it or anything like that.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: But it was fun to talk to him a little bit about her process.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, yeah, she loves this.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: She loves, she's so, she's always think she'll tell me things.
• 41:38
  And,
• 41:38
  and,
• 41:38
  and he said,
• 41:40
  so I've told her,
• 41:41
  I want to read these as they come.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to know where things are going.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: So he doesn't know himself.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it was very fun to meet them.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: But again, it came the other way around.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like this isn't someone who, oh, it's a friend.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: I got to push her books.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: I've pursued getting to know more and more just because I find it.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: And also, like you say, the process.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: the capacity to do a project like this fascinates me.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so it is fun to kind of get to know a little bit behind the scenes.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love that.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great choice.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: Very cool.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: But all right, let's get back to some of our guests.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: And this one that we're going to have, she'll be familiar to listeners.
• 42:29
  This is Nora,
• 42:30
  our good friend who's joined us a couple of times on prior episodes.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: She's,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: She runs Spinster September in September, mostly on Instagram, I think.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: And her choice is a book that I have read.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: But before we get to it, we should thank her.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: She sent us each a very lovely package of goodies from Ireland.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: I got a Barbara Cummins book from her.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: She sent me a touch of mistletoe,
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_03: which I didn't have and have been looking forward to getting some time.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then like a tote bag from one of her local Dublin bookstores.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: It was so fun.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Nora.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: And lots of goodies that we have been kind of making our way through.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: I will just say,
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: not that I needed more inspiration to go to Ireland,
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: but even their goodies were like...
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Further reasons.
• 43:25
  And I also got a Barbara Cummins book that I didn't have,
• 43:28
  which was Mr.
• 43:29
  Fox.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, as always, Nora, thank you.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: Just so thoughtful.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said,
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: beyond just her as a kind and loving person,
• 43:39
  just another great reader who always has amazing things to say
• 43:42
  about a wide range
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: of wonderful books,
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: including this one.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: Here we go.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Trevor, hi Paul, and hello fellow Moxies.
• 43:51
  Thank you so much for inviting me to talk to you about my
• 43:55
  favourite book this year.
• 43:56
  I'm so,
• 43:57
  so chuffed to be part of your end-of-the-year festive episode,
• 44:03
  so thank you for that.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: My favourite book this year is called Nights of Childhood by Dezer Özlü,
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: superbly translated from the Turkish by Maureen Frehli last year,
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: but the book is from 1980.
• 44:16
  It's funny because on paper this book would be everything a
• 44:21
  journey shy away from.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's told in a stream-of-consciousness style,
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: it veers on the poetic,
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: and the timelines and the narration all blur into one another,
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: so there's a definite lack of structure.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it works so well for the story that Heather Oslo tells in this book.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this story is largely autobiographical.
• 44:41
  It covers her childhood in Istanbul and her 20s when she was
• 44:45
  institutionalized in
• 44:47
  psychiatric hospitals to receive electroshock treatment for
• 44:53
  bipolar disorder.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: I just pulled this book off my shelves just,
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: to reacquaint myself with the text,
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: to talk to you about it.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: And while I was looking at some of the passages I highlighted,
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up accidentally rereading the whole thing again.
• 45:12
  Granted,
• 45:12
  this is only a very slim book,
• 45:14
  it's about 70 odd pages,
• 45:16
  but I think it tells you
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: about how much this book grabs you, or at least grabs me.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's something so electrifying about the way Tessa Oslew writes.
• 45:27
  Her feelings are so palpable and jump off the page,
• 45:32
  you just can't look away.
• 45:34
  And what I love about this book is that it's the story of a
• 45:36
  woman who's trying to
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: work out what makes her heart beat.
• 45:42
  She feels very suffocated by her family life,
• 45:45
  by the sort of middle-class world she lives in.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: She obviously has been imprisoned in those institutes,
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: but generally she's trying to break away from convention.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: She refuses monogamy.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: She just wants to live and love the way she wants.
• 46:02
  And whenever in the book she writes about those things that
• 46:07
  make her heart tick,
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: there's something so contagious about it.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: When she writes about nature,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: about the city she loves,
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: Istanbul,
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: there's some amazing,
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: amazing depiction of Istanbul in this book.
• 46:21
  about the way she explores a mind and her body um the things
• 46:27
  she loves it's just
• 46:29
  yeah so contagious i think what stays with me or what has
• 46:34
  stayed with me from
• 46:35
  reading this book earlier this year is it's this overall
• 46:38
  message of a woman who's
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: been
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: broken down by life in so many ways.
• 46:45
  She's gone through incredible amount of pain,
• 46:48
  physical and spiritual,
• 46:50
  so many heartbreaks.
• 46:51
  She was put in commas from these electroshock treatments and
• 46:58
  still she has this uncontainable,
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: unstoppable,
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: lost for life.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: She's always looking for what she calls the beauties of life.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: And this overall message is very precious to me.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a great message to hold on to.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Nora.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, that is a great book.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: I did read it this past year and would just echo her praises of it.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I couldn't describe it or do it justice like she does.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's one I've not read.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: But as always, that's going to change.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: and here in the US,
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_03: it's out by Transit Books,
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_03: who I've been looking ahead at what they're publishing next year.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be a great year.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's go back and read another one of our entries.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: This is, again, from one of our good old time friends.
• 47:54
  But I think I met Stu first on Twitter at the very,
• 47:57
  very,
• 47:57
  very earliest days of Twitter.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was an early adopter.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: you know, one of the first few millions.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: and,
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_03: and this is a stew or better,
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: maybe better known by many people as,
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: Winston's dad on Twitter or,
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: or,
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to think of all the various social media places now,
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: but Instagram,
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: Blue Sky,
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: and Threads,
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think he's on all of them and always just so fun to follow along.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to read that one, Paul?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, I got it.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: Stu says, Hi, Paul and Trevor.
• 48:38
  My favorite book of the year is Your Little Matter by Maria
• 48:41
  Grazia Calendrone,
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_03: translated from the Italian by Antonella Lettieri.
• 48:47
  It follows the journey of her past as she discovers the mother
• 48:50
  who left her at
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: eight months old and the reasons why she did that.
• 48:54
  It also offers insights into being trapped in a loveless
• 48:57
  marriage and struggling to
• 48:58
  break free in the strict Italian laws of the time around
• 49:01
  divorce and her mother's
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: fate when she fell in love with another man.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's a heart-wrenching book from a new UK publisher, Foundry Press.
• 49:09
  And another quick mention for a book called My Favorite by
• 49:12
  Sarah Jolien Faridell,
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: translated from the French by Holly James.
• 49:16
  It's about a daughter who escapes from an abusive father in the
• 49:20
  small Swiss village
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: where everyone knew what was happening but didn't act.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: Finally,
• 49:24
  Goats and Meijer by David Albahare and translated from the
• 49:27
  Serbian by Ellen Elias
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: Bersak was as good as you made it sound.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_03: I have you guys to thank for pointing me in its direction.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_03: As I look forward to a year of classics,
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: Merry Christmas to you both and carry on the good work from Stu,
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: the face behind Winston's dad.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Stu.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, very, very excited.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I put Goetz and Meyer in my wish list all the time and keep thinking,
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: I just need to go and get that.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't read it yet.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: So that was all you, Paul.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: All you.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'll take credit, but it's been passed on to me.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: I know that
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: Mark Haber.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm trying to thank there's other people who recommended it to me.
• 50:04
  So it's as always in this lovely book world that,
• 50:07
  you know,
• 50:07
  you pass it along.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: Share it with the next person.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh,
• 50:12
  and here's another one who always gives us great
• 50:14
  recommendations and definitely
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: influences my reading plans.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is Brad, Brad Bigelow.
• 50:21
  We've talked about Brad a little bit in the past because next
• 50:24
  year he's putting
• 50:26
  together an amazing project that I'm just waiting for him to
• 50:34
  tell me how to pay for it.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, me too.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:37
  So,
• 50:38
  but yeah,
• 50:38
  Brad,
• 50:39
  go ahead and tell us about your top reads of the year.
• 50:45
  Hi,
• 50:45
  Trevor,
• 50:46
  and hi,
• 50:46
  Paul,
• 50:47
  and thanks for inviting me to contribute to your year-end review.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you don't mind if I talk about two favorite books from 2024,
• 50:58
  one neglected and long out of print and the other published
• 51:02
  just last year.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: The neglected book is Escape from Berlin,
• 51:07
  which was published by Galantz in England in 1944 under the
• 51:11
  pseudonym of Catherine Klein.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: The author's real name was Keita Kohn,
• 51:18
  and she used a pseudonym because her mother was still living in
• 51:22
  Berlin under an
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: assumed Christian identity when the book was published.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Kohn and her husband, both Jews, struggled to
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: for years to find a way to leave Germany.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: Her husband's practice as a doctor was taken away,
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: then their apartment,
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: then their belongings were inventory,
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: and they were forced to move to Jewish-only residence.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they're harassed on the streets.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: They have friends beaten up and arrested.
• 51:52
  And finally,
• 51:53
  her husband manages to land a job offer from England to be able
• 51:58
  to get abort
• 51:59
  a train out of germany just really days before the attack on
• 52:03
  poland in 1939 and
• 52:06
  from that point on she's really stranded so she fights to
• 52:09
  survive as the repression
• 52:12
  of german jews increases in intensity and what what i found so
• 52:17
  powerful about this
• 52:17
  book is how she details the step-by-step tightening of the
• 52:23
  nazis constraints on the
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: lives of german jews
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like you get the feeling like,
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: someone who's suffering from emphysema,
• 52:33
  who finds that their breathing is restricted more and more to
• 52:37
  the point that
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: they're just living on gasps of air.
• 52:41
  And she does finally manage to escape from Germany through a
• 52:45
  combination of
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: subterfuse and lucky coincidences.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the last chapters of this book are a real thriller.
• 52:54
  the new book is called is related in a way to escape from
• 52:58
  berlin it's called
• 53:00
  february 1933 the winter of literature by uva wittstock
• 53:06
  originally appeared in
• 53:07
  german in 2018 was translated into english by daniel bowls and
• 53:13
  published by polity
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: press in 2023
• 53:17
  what Wittstock does it makes this book so powerful is he leads
• 53:22
  us from January 28
• 53:26
  1933 through the subsequent six weeks during which Hitler took
• 53:30
  power as German
• 53:31
  Chancellor and almost immediately began eliminating civil
• 53:35
  rights and oppressing
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: political opposition and making
• 53:40
  the lives of leading writers and intellectuals impossible and
• 53:45
  each chapter looks at
• 53:46
  the events of a single day and generally focuses on one or two
• 53:51
  figures and time and
• 53:52
  time again we see how german writers just went overnight from
• 53:58
  popular and critical
• 53:59
  successes and on the side of the political political left to
• 54:04
  being fugitives and
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: and really like
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: running for their lives.
• 54:11
  So like one of the anecdotes told is that an acquaintance of
• 54:17
  the writer Walter
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: Maring's mother says to her one day,
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: your son should go back to Paris.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: And she says, well,
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: For how long?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, I would say 15 years.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: So some writers heeded these warnings.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 54:36
  there are cases where Vitak tells about somebody being stopped
• 54:39
  on the street and warned,
• 54:41
  and the person immediately goes to the train station and gets
• 54:45
  on a train to go to Prague.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: or to Paris or Zurich with only the money they have in their pocket,
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: no idea what they're going to do for work,
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: In other cases,
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: people generally brush off the warning and say,
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a few days,
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to get my affairs in order,
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: and they go home and they're arrested on their doorstep.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the Nazis' measures were put in place swiftly and brutally.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: So within days,
• 55:10
  there are people being hauled off in trucks to makeshift prison
• 55:15
  camps with no trial,
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: no appeal.
• 55:19
  And this book is really a powerful illustration of how suddenly
• 55:24
  an authoritarian
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: regime can be put in place.
• 55:28
  And it's one that's hard to read without giving a thought to
• 55:33
  possible parable
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: parallels in today's world.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks and happy reading to everybody.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Brad.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: Paul, have you read either one of those?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: I have not.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_03: I have not either.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that's one of the,
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_03: Brad is always so good at,
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 55:49
  you consider yourself to be fairly wide read and yet there are
• 55:52
  people like Brad who
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like,
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: I've never even heard of this stuff.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_03: Every day,
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_03: every day on Instagram or Blue Sky or Threads,
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: he'll,
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: he'll post a neglected book or a wafer thin book.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_03: And most of the time I'm like,
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know anything about this, but it looks so good.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's amazing.
• 56:09
  And I will just say that I got to know Brad a little bit better
• 56:12
  because a couple of
• 56:13
  years ago when I joined that group read of Joseph and his
• 56:17
  brothers by Thomas Mann,
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_03: Brad was the guy who kind of headed that up.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was so nice to kind of get to know him a little bit through.
• 56:25
  our monthly zoom meetings and our discussions about that book
• 56:28
  and life in general
• 56:29
  um he's such a great guy such an amazing reader and like you
• 56:33
  said oh that dorothy
• 56:34
  richardson that's already making me look forward to 2025 almost
• 56:38
  more than anything
• 56:39
  else i cannot pilgrim we've got a lot to read before we get
• 56:43
  into that one so take
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_03: advantage of the time i think seriously i know exactly
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 56:50
  Well,
• 56:51
  next one again,
• 56:51
  the fellow who got me to read War and Peace,
• 56:54
  finally,
• 56:55
  Chris Villa.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's work going on behind the scenes to have Chris join us.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_03: He's interested and we're doing that.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: But you may know him from the Leaf by Leaf channel,
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_03: which,
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: I told you about that War and Peace video being like five,
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_03: six hours long.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I would do it in segments as I went through it.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: Just loved it.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_03: He posted a video yesterday.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_03: His longest ever.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I honestly can't wait to watch it.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: I can't either.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: 10 hours on William Gass's The Tunnel.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: And some of his,
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: I guess for lack of a better word,
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: his promo videos and posts about it are hilarious.
• 57:34
  It's a picture of him chucking the shovel out from this hole or
• 57:37
  like under his basement.
• 57:39
  And like he comes climbing out of there with like this giant
• 57:41
  book in his hands.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing stuff.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_03: He's so funny on top of everything else.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I can't wait either.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 57:48
  Well,
• 57:49
  Chris,
• 57:49
  go ahead and tell us about one of your top reads of the year.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, everybody.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: This is Chris from Leaf by Leaf.
• 57:57
  Thanks so much to Paul Wilson for inviting me to share this
• 58:00
  little review.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: One of my favorite reads of 2024 is the short story anthology,
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: A Cage Went in Search of a Bird,
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_03: 10 Kafkaesque Stories,
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_03: published by Catapult and edited by Becca Rothfeld.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: As Rothfeld says in her introduction,
• 58:20
  this is a collection written in Kafka's honor on the occasion
• 58:25
  of the hundredth
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_03: anniversary of his death,
• 58:27
  and many of the stories in this volume treat precisely the kind
• 58:32
  of entrapment that
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: obsessed him,
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: the kind that follows us wherever we go.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: I feel in good editorial hands with Rothfeld.
• 58:41
  She also published the book All Things Are Too Small,
• 58:45
  Essays in Praise of Excess.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: And, well, her dog is named Kafka.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: If you aren't already bought into this book based on Kafka alone,
• 58:56
  another great reason for the investment is that it's a pretty
• 58:59
  perfect way to get a
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_03: sampling of many contemporary writers.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_03: If you're like me, most of the writers you read are, like Kafka, dead.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: And it's very contemporary indeed.
• 59:12
  COVID haunts these pages and really is a fantastic situation to
• 59:17
  explore the Kafkaesque.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone terrified and hiding from an unseen menace.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: Another recurring theme is living in a world that doesn't understand you.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_03: The contributors include Naomi Alderman,
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_03: Elif Batuman,
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_03: Joshua Cohen,
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: Charlie Kaufman,
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yi Yun Lee,
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_03: Tommy Orange,
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_03: Helen Oyoyemi,
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_03: Keith Ridgway,
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: Leonie Ross,
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: and Ali Smith.
• 59:45
  I wish I had the space to talk about each story,
• 59:47
  but I'll limit it to a couple.
• 59:49
  Fans of the novel Antkind will be thrilled to see Charlie
• 59:54
  Kaufman continuing his
• 59:55
  literary career with The Fact Can Even Be Proved by Means of
• 59:59
  the Sense of Hearing.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: a title itself taken from Kafka.
• 1:00:03
  Kaufman begins with the question of what would happen if you
• 1:00:07
  were interviewed about
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: a book you wrote,
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: but you didn't recognize anything about it.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: In characteristic Kaufman fashion,
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: the narrator's name is I,
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_01: and the story loops back into itself about halfway through.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: I,
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: like Kafka's K,
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_03: finds himself accused of words,
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: sins,
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_03: guilt,
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_03: not his own,
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_03: but instead belonging to,
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: Kafka.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: Fiction and reality begin to shape each other in intriguing ways.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: While the story lacks the volume of Antkind's humor,
• 1:00:41
  the concept's depth and brilliance are what we have come to
• 1:00:45
  expect of Kaufman and
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: confirm that he isn't a one-hit wonder.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_03: in the literary world.
• 1:00:52
  The star of the show for me,
• 1:00:54
  however,
• 1:00:55
  is Naomi Alderman's story,
• 1:00:57
  God's Doorbell.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: Alderman takes her cue from Kafka's Blue Octavo notebooks and imagines a
• 1:01:04
  post-superintelligent singularity world where humans are free
• 1:01:09
  to play and eat and
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_03: copulate while AI machines do,
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_03: well,
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_03: everything else.
• 1:01:15
  People have been simplified and globalized,
• 1:01:18
  interconnected and homogenized.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: They even all speak one simple language.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: But eventually,
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: the machines,
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_03: like the people in the Old Testament,
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_03: start building a tower of Babel that humans are forbidden to climb.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: This story excels on every level.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: Again, it's a crime that I'm not acknowledging the other stories.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_03: Some of them are highly inventive.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I think Kafka is terrifically honored.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_03: with this collection.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: A cage went in search of a bird.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_03: Paul,
• 1:01:56
  I had this as one of the books that I don't know if I brought
• 1:01:59
  it up on our Looking
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_03: Forward to 2024 episode,
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: but it was definitely one that was in my vision,
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_03: on my radar,
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_03: as I know you'd like to put it.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: Lovingly.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_03: And yet it fell off.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: I forgot about it.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm very excited that Chris brought it up again.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_03: I want to read this one.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_03: I do too.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: Same thing.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't remember.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think I probably did.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: I probably was aware of it at some point,
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: but if so,
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't remember because this kind of was like,
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I heard about that one before.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_03: So no, as always, he's got me ready to buy it though.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_03: Our next contributor is another one that we've been talking.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: Actually,
• 1:02:43
  many of these folks are people that have either joined us or
• 1:02:45
  we've been talking
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: about joining us.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: They've indicated their interest.
• 1:02:50
  this is kate from the book club review podcast uh such a good
• 1:02:55
  podcast so much fun
• 1:02:57
  to to listen to and she also does a lot of instagram posts
• 1:03:04
  about uh you know her
• 1:03:06
  what she's reading during the week um just delightful to follow
• 1:03:10
  online and again
• 1:03:12
  we're kind of excited that that she'll be joining us soon but
• 1:03:15
  we'll let her go
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: ahead and introduce her book
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: First,
• 1:03:18
  I should say thanks so much for all these brilliant episodes
• 1:03:21
  that you've done
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_02: throughout the year,
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_02: which I have so enjoyed listening to,
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: usually when I'm cycling home from work in the rain.
• 1:03:28
  But I have this happy bookish inspiration going on in my ears,
• 1:03:32
  which I love.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: You asked me for my book of the year book one book.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness, how impossible to choose.
• 1:03:40
  Also because I'm not great at keeping a list of what I read as
• 1:03:44
  I go along.
• 1:03:45
  And so traditionally at this time of year,
• 1:03:47
  I madly scrabble around trying to figure out.
• 1:03:49
  what on earth i read in the first place i have just sat down
• 1:03:52
  and made that list and
• 1:03:54
  looking back through it of course there's more than one thing
• 1:03:57
  that i think oh yeah
• 1:03:58
  that was such a great book but if i have to choose one and also
• 1:04:02
  thinking perhaps
• 1:04:02
  about something that might not be chosen by one of your other
• 1:04:05
  guests trying to
• 1:04:06
  second guess what's going on here i thought about a book called
• 1:04:10
  all the glitters by
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: orlando whitfield
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was just reminded of it the other day.
• 1:04:14
  Someone mentioned it and we were chatting about it and it just
• 1:04:17
  reminded me what a
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: fantastic read it is.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's nonfiction.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's a memoir.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's set in the art world.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's described by Patrick Radden Keefe as an art world at Great Gatsby.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it is the story of these two young men,
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_02: friends,
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: who met at art college,
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Orlando Whitfield and Inigo Philbrick.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: They decided that they wanted to get into art dealing,
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: particularly Philbrick,
• 1:04:42
  who was very driven to succeed and had quite a calculating mind
• 1:04:46
  and could see that
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: there was an opportunity for maybe some sort of younger,
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_02: fresher,
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: hungry people to come in and shake up the contemporary art world a bit.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so they started to position themselves to do that.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_02: But Whitfield...
• 1:05:00
  realised quite quickly that the wheeling dealing side of art
• 1:05:04
  wasn't really what he
• 1:05:06
  was interested in and he was also conscious of a growing
• 1:05:08
  distance between himself
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: and Philbrick.
• 1:05:11
  So they parted ways relatively early on in this story but
• 1:05:15
  Whitfield remains very
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_02: interested and connected with Philbrick and what he's up to.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_02: Philbrick then goes off and establishes himself
• 1:05:22
  separately in the art world he is set up with a gallery by the
• 1:05:26
  dealer Jay Jopling
• 1:05:27
  who runs White Cube very famous gallery Jopling saw an
• 1:05:30
  opportunity with Philbrick
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: and invested in him
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it all seemed to be going very well.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of money was being made.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of deals were being made.
• 1:05:39
  And then gradually it starts to dawn on people that actually
• 1:05:44
  all is not quite what it seems.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_02: And in the end,
• 1:05:48
  it turns out that Philbrick has actually been committing some
• 1:05:51
  fairly major fraud.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: And all of this comes out in quite a dramatic way.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_02: Meanwhile,
• 1:05:57
  Whitfield has been trying to find his own path through the art
• 1:06:02
  world and to try and
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: find something that is meaningful for him.
• 1:06:05
  If it's not going to be this buying and selling in this
• 1:06:07
  commercial side of the art world,
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: what is it then that really does speak to him and where is his place?
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's why it's so riveting because you've got it all.
• 1:06:15
  You've got this high stakes,
• 1:06:16
  glitzy,
• 1:06:17
  wealthy world of contemporary art dealing.
• 1:06:20
  You've got this friendship between these two men and this
• 1:06:22
  psychological dynamic
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_02: that's going on between them.
• 1:06:25
  And you've got Whitfield's own search trying to find,
• 1:06:28
  like,
• 1:06:29
  where does he fit?
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: How is he going to make a life for himself?
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_02: And he actually ends up coming at that in quite an interesting way.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's really also about what is art?
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: What does art mean to people?
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: What does it mean to be in the presence of these beautiful paintings?
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_02: And what do they give us?
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so I love it for that.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was a fantastic page turner.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of those books.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's a true story, but it reads like a thriller.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah,
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_02: for anyone who hasn't read it,
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think this would be a great addition to your holiday reading pile.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay,
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_03: Paul,
• 1:06:59
  another one that I've heard of just because it's been reviewed
• 1:07:03
  and all of that,
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_03: but have not read yet.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: But she makes it definitely one that I want to.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_03: Wait till the one that I say, I don't want to read that.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for your contribution.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds lame.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's not going to happen, I guess.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_03: I cannot picture that ever happening, but no.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_03: And if so, I guess they would just be like, fine.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_03: I won't tell you about my books anymore.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_03: Fine.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_03: No,
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_03: as always,
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_03: everybody,
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_03: they just have so much,
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_03: so such impeccable taste and there's so many good books out there that,
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_03: yeah.
• 1:07:33
  And they're so good at telling us why they loved it and making
• 1:07:36
  it intriguing and appealing.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_03: I love this.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things that I just love about doing this is,
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_03: I love reading,
• 1:07:43
  but it's so fun also to see the hearts behind reading and what
• 1:07:48
  makes them,
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: you
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_03: get excited and all of that.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_03: So excited.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm the same way.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_03: And the interesting thing is not this book in particular,
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_03: but occasionally if there's a book that even is,
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure it's for me,
• 1:08:01
  just hearing somebody talk about it so passionately and to see
• 1:08:04
  all the different
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_03: types of minds and readers and interests out there is never ending leaf,
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_03: fascinating to me.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_03: So.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: that's,
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_03: uh,
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_03: we'll come back to a few more guests here in a moment,
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_03: but Paul,
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_03: what is your number three?
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, here we go.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_03: My number three is Lesser Ruins by Mark Haber.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_03: I know we've talked about this book a lot,
• 1:08:28
  and I have a feeling this may not even be the last time on this
• 1:08:30
  episode that it
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_03: comes up.
• 1:08:32
  But as we've mentioned before,
• 1:08:34
  our ongoing praise and focus on this book has
• 1:08:37
  nothing to do with our friendship with mark i mean that is just
• 1:08:40
  a completely
• 1:08:40
  separate thing that is also so wonderful about this but i mean
• 1:08:44
  this book is truly
• 1:08:45
  one of the standouts of the year and if you don't trust us just
• 1:08:48
  look around online
• 1:08:50
  it's you know all over the place so many end of year and awards
• 1:08:54
  lists outside of
• 1:08:55
  ours that i think you know it's just clearly well deserved all
• 1:08:59
  the praise that this
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_03: book is getting um
• 1:09:01
  And so I know at this point,
• 1:09:02
  most of our listeners have heard us talk about it a lot.
• 1:09:04
  And I hope that many of them have either been won over to the
• 1:09:07
  point of reading it
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_03: or at the very least adding it to their TBR piles.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm going to take one more stab at it just in case.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_03: Rather than reading from the book itself,
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_03: which we've done a fair amount of,
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to read a little bit more during our episode with Mark.
• 1:09:19
  We briefly touched on this wonderful essay that he wrote on Lit
• 1:09:23
  Hub that's all about digression.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it not only gives a little insight into his mind,
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: but also what we love so much about his books.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm going to just read from that.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_03: It says, I adore digression.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_03: Frankly, when I'm writing, I want the plot or the premise out of the way.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_03: Not because I'm for or against plot,
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_03: an argument which seems to be trending these days on social media.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_03: But more than anything, I care about language.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_03: I want the words to erupt,
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_03: the sentences to flower,
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_03: and the ideas to go places I hadn't expected.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_03: The story will always follow.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_03: My novels always begin with a very straightforward premise.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_03: In my new novel,
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_03: which relishes in digression,
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_03: the reader knows in the first sentence what's going on.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_03: The narrator's wife has died.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_03: He's mourning.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_03: But now he has the time to finish his life's work,
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_03: an essay about the French philosopher Montaigne.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_03: There, I did it.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's out of the way.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Now I can meander.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_03: I can explore the memories,
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_03: relationships,
• 1:10:19
  and events that have occurred in the character's life while
• 1:10:21
  likewise investigating
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_03: what they're thinking about now.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_03: With this,
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_03: the narrator comes alive for me,
• 1:10:29
  digressing perhaps about the decision a decade ago that led him
• 1:10:32
  to this moment,
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_03: or the scent of bergamot in a cup of Earl Grey,
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_03: or anything really,
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_03: as long as it feels authentic,
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_03: relevant,
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_03: and helps the story.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_03: After finding my premise, I'm liberated.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_03: I can discover what the story and the characters are trying to tell me.
• 1:10:45
  I may find myself along the shores of the Bosporus or shoveling
• 1:10:48
  coal in a train in
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_03: Soviet Russia.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_03: These strands aren't the primary focus of the story per se,
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_03: but they support and reinforce the story.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Much like the human mind,
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_03: I can go backwards and forwards,
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_03: and not merely for the sake of doing it,
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_03: but to explore,
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_03: along with our narrator,
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_03: what they care about,
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_03: what they want to say,
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_03: and how to say it.
• 1:11:08
  And I just thought,
• 1:11:09
  such a wonderful summary of what I love about his books.
• 1:11:11
  It's not that there are instances as a reader where I enjoy
• 1:11:15
  going from A to B to C.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_03: there are definitely books where I love that.
• 1:11:19
  But I'm increasingly drawn to books that do something
• 1:11:21
  interesting with timelines or
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_03: that investigate the way memories and the mind works.
• 1:11:26
  And I think the ways that Mark is kind of exploring that right
• 1:11:29
  now just stand out
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_03: from anything else that I'm reading,
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_03: especially in American fiction.
• 1:11:34
  And so it's just been so exciting to see him getting so much
• 1:11:36
  recognition lately.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we've both been fans for years, as we've talked about.
• 1:11:39
  I'm glad to see that more and more he's starting to get the
• 1:11:42
  spotlight turned upon him,
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_03: which is so well-deserved.
• 1:11:45
  And I hope to see him popping up on many more end-of-the-year
• 1:11:48
  awards lists,
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_03: over the next months.
• 1:11:51
  And obviously can't wait to see whatever he has up his sleeve
• 1:11:53
  next in the coming years.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well said.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_03: I will, once again, just sit here quietly for a few moments.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds good.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Just a few moments longer, then I'll jump in with my own thoughts.
• 1:12:03
  Okay.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds good.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_03: And well said all around.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_03: My number three book of the year is one that was very surprising to me.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_03: I thought it would be a little bit of a curiosity.
• 1:12:16
  I might like little pieces of it,
• 1:12:17
  but ultimately be,
• 1:12:19
  oh,
• 1:12:20
  you know,
• 1:12:20
  as a whole...
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, whatever.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe too intellectual for me or something like that, but I loved it.
• 1:12:28
  It was Italo Calvino's Invisible Cities with the translation by
• 1:12:33
  William Weaver.
• 1:12:35
  Again,
• 1:12:36
  I kind of expected this to be just a catalog of things,
• 1:12:39
  and it is that.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's these descriptions of these imaginary cities that Marco Polo
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_03: is recounting to the Mongol Emperor Kublai Khan.
• 1:12:51
  And Kublai Khan has asked Polo to describe some of the cities
• 1:12:54
  that he has visited
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_03: on his travels.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_03: And we get these,
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_03: very short usually,
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_03: but also really profound glimpses at the physical world,
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_03: but the way it reflects emotions or,
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_03: just humanity in general and the way we might organize ourselves
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_03: and the way that those organizations,
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_03: reflect our values or just priorities,
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_03: things like that.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_03: And they're just these really lovely,
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_03: thought-provoking descriptions of 55 fictional cities with little short
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_03: interruptions where you get a conversation between
• 1:13:36
  Kublai Khan and Polo,
• 1:13:38
  as they talk about the power of language to evoke so much.
• 1:13:42
  I mean,
• 1:13:42
  they're talking about other things too,
• 1:13:43
  but that's the part that kind of gets me.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just the physical descriptions,
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_03: but the sensations and the metaphysical subjects like memory and death,
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_03: how we deal with some of that stuff.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_03: And it just worked for me.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_03: I would read one or two a day, sometimes skip a day or two, but just
• 1:14:05
  always looking forward to it it's one that i'll revisit quite
• 1:14:07
  often in the future
• 1:14:09
  there's an absolutely gorgeous folio edition of this book that
• 1:14:14
  i you know i love
• 1:14:15
  folio don't get me wrong but i also am not one who rushes out
• 1:14:19
  to buy you know
• 1:14:20
  really expensive copies of of even my favorite books because i
• 1:14:24
  got i got it in a
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_03: format that works for me but this one's so tempting just because it
• 1:14:30
  there is something about this one that resonates outside of the
• 1:14:34
  pages just a little bit for me.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_03: Remind me, have you read other Calvino books?
• 1:14:41
  I have read several of his cosmic comics as they've appeared in
• 1:14:44
  places that I'm reading.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_03: But the only other of his books that I've read is If on a Winter's Night,
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_03: a Traveler,
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_03: which I did like.
• 1:14:51
  But again,
• 1:14:53
  it's kind of the fear I had with this one is because of my
• 1:14:55
  experience with that one.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_03: I liked pieces of it.
• 1:14:57
  super frustrated about the the the conceit of it not because
• 1:15:01
  i'm sure that's part
• 1:15:02
  of the point you know that that's that frustration of reading
• 1:15:06
  only the start of a
• 1:15:07
  of a book but not being able to read more is built into that
• 1:15:10
  one and and i love
• 1:15:12
  that idea but again i i kind of loved the idea more than i
• 1:15:15
  loved the experience um
• 1:15:17
  not the case with invisible cities and i'm tempted to reread it
• 1:15:20
  it could have been
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_03: you know
• 1:15:22
  the cut my own life context context that affected my reading of
• 1:15:26
  if on a winter's
• 1:15:27
  night a traveler and this one may have warmed me up a little
• 1:15:30
  bit nice yeah no i i
• 1:15:32
  had a very similar experience with if on a winter's night and i
• 1:15:35
  would also say one
• 1:15:36
  that you could at least consider that i really enjoyed by him
• 1:15:39
  is the baron in the
• 1:15:40
  trees which i keep hearing about that yeah very playful but
• 1:15:44
  still has a lot going
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_03: on but yeah um
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_03: Invisible Cities,
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_03: hearing you talk about it a little bit over the course of this year,
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_03: it's one that we stock at the bookstore.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I'm going to pick that one up because I've kind of,
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_03: I've read a chunk of his- You could read it at the bookstore,
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_03: Paul.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Good point.
• 1:16:02
  I've read a chunk of his stuff here and there,
• 1:16:04
  but it was all probably 10 years ago.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I would love to kind of delve back in and like you said,
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_03: maybe reread some,
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_03: but this one sounds like one that I would like to explore.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's a great choice.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and again, maybe just give it a taste at the bookstore.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_03: You could read them between... I don't want to encourage...
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_03: it isn't a part of your job a little bit to get to know the product,
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think at a bookstore,
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_03: you're probably safe doing that.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's one of the few jobs where it's probably okay.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_03: Check out,
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_03: this is one you could easily read in,
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_03: in pieces as you,
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_03: as you,
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_03: there,
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think there is like,
• 1:16:42
  you can see maps online of people who have mapped the different
• 1:16:45
  types of cities.
• 1:16:46
  And,
• 1:16:46
  you know,
• 1:16:47
  so there is maybe an overarching thing,
• 1:16:49
  but it's in pieces.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they're like little poems.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_03: You could, you could read them over the course of the next year.
• 1:16:56
  you know,
• 1:16:56
  whenever you have a moment at the bookstore and I think you'd
• 1:16:58
  be
• 1:17:00
  happy with that kind of experience too nice well that one does
• 1:17:03
  surprise me i
• 1:17:04
  sometimes in my head try to guess it what will be in your top
• 1:17:07
  five and some i get
• 1:17:08
  right but i always love when there's a curveball that i didn't
• 1:17:11
  see coming so that's
• 1:17:12
  great oh that's kind of a fun game i didn't do it for you uh
• 1:17:16
  but maybe we should do
• 1:17:17
  that because sometime maybe next year because i'm curious now
• 1:17:21
  what you thought was
• 1:17:22
  would be in my top five that this one may have taken its spot
• 1:17:25
  but yeah anyways very
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_01: cool
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_03: You're number two, Paul.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Trevor, you finally got me.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_03: You've had a Trollope book at or near the top of your list for years now.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's my turn to kind of join the party here.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_03: So my top or my number two book of the year is Dr. Thorne by Trollope.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I've talked a little bit about this.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_03: I first read The Warden last year and absolutely loved it,
• 1:17:51
  but for whatever reason got distracted and didn't follow up
• 1:17:53
  immediately with the
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_03: other ones in the series.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_03: But
• 1:17:56
  as time went on i just found myself missing him and missing
• 1:18:00
  these books and i knew
• 1:18:01
  i didn't want to let it drag out into one of those you know
• 1:18:04
  instances where this
• 1:18:05
  series kind of disappeared under the waves for me so this year
• 1:18:08
  i made it a specific
• 1:18:09
  goal to ensure that didn't happen and i first reread the warden
• 1:18:13
  back in june and
• 1:18:14
  then i read barchester towers in the fall and then finished up
• 1:18:17
  dr thorne right
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_03: around thanksgiving
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_03: And,
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_03: honestly,
• 1:18:21
  any of them probably very easily could have been on my top 10
• 1:18:24
  list and even really
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_03: in this number two spot.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_03: I've loved them all.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_03: But if I had to pick,
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_03: at least at this point,
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think Dr.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_03: Thorne is my favorite of this series right now.
• 1:18:34
  For one thing,
• 1:18:34
  there's just so many wonderful and memorable characters in this book.
• 1:18:38
  But the core of the book is kind of built around this
• 1:18:41
  will-they-won't-they
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_03: relationship between Frank Gresham and Mary Thorne,
• 1:18:44
  which is complicated in so many delightfully Victorian ways
• 1:18:49
  throughout the book.
• 1:18:50
  We have all these side plots featuring mysterious inheritances
• 1:18:54
  and murky bloodlines,
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_03: and we have all these kind of class and gender complications.
• 1:18:58
  And then that's in addition to just the actual relationship
• 1:19:01
  itself and the emotions
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_03: and everything that is involved in any relationship.
• 1:19:05
  But like Jane Austen and so many others who are so good at this
• 1:19:09
  type of thing,
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think Trollope just manages it all so well.
• 1:19:13
  And I did love so many characters in this book,
• 1:19:15
  but to me,
• 1:19:16
  the star is absolutely Mary Thorne.
• 1:19:19
  And I think that's kind of evidenced by both Trollope's
• 1:19:21
  descriptions of her.
• 1:19:23
  as well as her own actions and dialogue throughout the book and
• 1:19:25
  so i pulled out a
• 1:19:26
  couple of what i thought were like highlights of mary thorne
• 1:19:29
  throughout this book
• 1:19:30
  that i think just give an example of why i think she's such a
• 1:19:33
  great character so
• 1:19:34
  the first one says and what had mary said when these fervent
• 1:19:38
  protestations of an
• 1:19:39
  undying love had been thrown at her feet mary it must be
• 1:19:42
  remembered was very nearly
• 1:19:43
  of the same age as frank but as i and others have so often said
• 1:19:47
  before women grow
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_03: in this on the sunny side of the wall
• 1:19:51
  Though Frank was only a boy,
• 1:19:52
  it behooved Mary to be something more than a girl.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Frank might be allowed without laying himself open to much just reproach,
• 1:19:59
  to throw all of what he believed to be his heart into a
• 1:20:01
  protestation of what he
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_03: believed to be love.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_03: But Mary was in duty bound to be more thoughtful,
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_03: more reticent,
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_03: more aware of the facts of their position,
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_03: more careful of her own feelings,
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_03: and more careful also of his.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_03: I just love that.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then this next one.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_03: Sell yourself for money?
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 1:20:19
  If I were a man,
• 1:20:20
  I would not sell one jot of liberty for mountains of gold.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 1:20:24
  Tie myself in the heyday of my youth to a person I could never
• 1:20:27
  love for a price?
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_03: Perjure myself?
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_03: Destroy myself?
• 1:20:31
  and not only myself but her also in order that i might live
• 1:20:34
  idly oh heavens mr
• 1:20:35
  gresham can it be that the words of such a woman as your aunt
• 1:20:38
  have sunk so deeply
• 1:20:39
  in your heart have blackened you so foully as to make you think
• 1:20:42
  of such vile folly
• 1:20:43
  as this have you forgotten your soul your spirit your man's
• 1:20:48
  energy the treasure of
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_03: your heart and you so young for shame mr gresham for shame for shame
• 1:20:55
  I just love both Trollope's descriptions of her,
• 1:20:57
  but also,
• 1:20:58
  like I said,
• 1:20:58
  her dialogue and stuff.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_03: She's just such a wonderful,
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_03: powerful,
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_03: strong,
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_03: endearing character that even in a,
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_03: in a book chock full of wonderful characters,
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think she just,
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_03: it's like when you see those actors and every time they're on the screen,
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_03: no matter how good everybody else is,
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_03: they just steal the scene.
• 1:21:17
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that's how it was with her.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, thank you so much for inspiring me to kind of, um,
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_03: dig into this series.
• 1:21:25
  And I'm now halfway through and I plan to continue in the near
• 1:21:31
  future to make sure that,
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_03: like I said,
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_03: they don't slip beneath the waves because they're just beautiful books.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, man, I love that series.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm still making my way through the next one and enjoying it as well.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_03: None of them are on my top 10 this year,
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_03: which is a little bit strange,
• 1:21:50
  SPEAKER_03: perhaps,
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_03: but not necessarily indicative that they're not good.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I enjoyed them as much as the Barsetshire books.
• 1:21:58
  SPEAKER_03: But...
• 1:21:59
  that's that's totally fine i still very much enjoy them for
• 1:22:02
  sure is this the first
• 1:22:03
  time in three four years that there hasn't been a trial i think
• 1:22:07
  i think probably
• 1:22:08
  yeah maybe since we started doing this the end of an era not
• 1:22:12
  yet you carried on the
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_03: torch very true so
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see there.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure,
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_03: I am not done with him even when I'm done with the Palisers,
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_03: so he may pop up again.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.
• 1:22:25
  There's ones we've talked about the way we live now and some of
• 1:22:27
  these other ones
• 1:22:28
  SPEAKER_03: that get listed among his all-time best that I wouldn't be surprised,
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_03: like you said,
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_03: if he keeps popping up.
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_03: my number two,
• 1:22:36
  one that you've already brought up and delivered just a great
• 1:22:41
  introduction to.
• 1:22:43
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, you're right.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_03: It lasts forever.
• 1:22:45
  And then it's over by Anne DeMarcon is tricky to talk about
• 1:22:49
  because I also just sat
• 1:22:52
  SPEAKER_03: down and started reading it and had no idea what was going on.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_03: I did not read.
• 1:22:56
  I don't even know if I read the back of the book,
• 1:22:58
  but this is how this book starts.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_03: I lost my left arm today.
• 1:23:04
  SPEAKER_03: It came off clean at the shoulder.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_03: So already I'm sitting there like scratching my head and thinking today,
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_03: like you're not in the hospital,
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_03: right?
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_03: Are you just talking about this?
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_03: But it gets even stranger.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_03: It says Janice too, picked it up and brought it back to the hotel.
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_03: I would have thought it would affect my balance more than it has.
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_03: It is like getting a haircut.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_03: The air moving differently around the remaining parts of me.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_03: Also by turns, a sense of newness and lessness.
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_03: Free me.
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_03: Undead me.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_03: Don't look at me.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's just this narrator.
• 1:23:36
  SPEAKER_03: How can she lose her arm without much bustle?
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't quite catch some of the clues.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_03: It was a ways into it before I was like, okay...
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know what's going on now.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_03: But you're right.
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's intriguing and definitely had me invested in a story way.
• 1:23:59
  But the heart of this book is it's dealing with grief and loss
• 1:24:03
  and identity.
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_03: Our narrator can't even remember her own name.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_03: But she does have some vague hunger.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_03: for what she has lost in particular,
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_03: the you,
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_03: that often comes up as you,
• 1:24:18
  SPEAKER_03: you brought up and man,
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_03: it's,
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_03: it's just so,
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_03: so good.
• 1:24:24
  And the thing that I also like about this book is it just shows
• 1:24:27
  how things can kind
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_03: of modify over time.
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if this is any of this is deliberate,
• 1:24:33
  SPEAKER_03: but we kind of start with Emily Dickinson's poem,
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_03: hope is the thing with feathers and
• 1:24:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then we get to Max Porter's novel, Grief is the Thing with Feathers.
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then,
• 1:24:46
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:24:46
  you'll notice on the covers of this book that there's a big
• 1:24:49
  thing with feathers on
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_03: the cover.
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_03: that it plays a very major role in the book,
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_03: in a very strange role in the book,
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_03: but brings to mind that hope and that grief and that literary line,
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_03: that through line,
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_03: you know.
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_03: And again,
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that was deliberate,
• 1:25:08
  SPEAKER_03: but it feels like it is definitely,
• 1:25:11
  SPEAKER_03: if not,
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_03: something that you recognize,
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_03: even if you didn't do this deliberately.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_03: The Cosmos did it.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, something in there put this together for us all.
• 1:25:23
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, loved.
• 1:25:25
  SPEAKER_03: I loved this book.
• 1:25:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so glad that you read it.
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_03: And,
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:25:29
  I've spread it around a little bit on this end as well to
• 1:25:33
  people who tended to come
• 1:25:34
  SPEAKER_03: back and been like,
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_03: that was so weird.
• 1:25:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I loved it.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so glad you mentioned the cover because that
• 1:25:42
  SPEAKER_03: That whole part is just one of the parts,
• 1:25:44
  SPEAKER_03: one of many parts about this book that I cannot get out of my head.
• 1:25:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that so much.
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I do feel bad that I spoiled it,
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_03: but I think I love that you brought up some of the points that I didn't.
• 1:25:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's so much about this book.
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_03: We could just talk about it forever and just...
• 1:25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Never get to the bottom of it.
• 1:26:00
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, I'm really thinking I'm going to reread it again soon.
• 1:26:03
  And everybody I've talked to who's read this book seems to have
• 1:26:07
  that same feeling
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_03: of just it blew them away.
• 1:26:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this would be a good one.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you posted on Instagram...
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_03: your idea,
• 1:26:17
  SPEAKER_03: or not your idea,
• 1:26:17
  SPEAKER_03: your introduction,
• 1:26:19
  SPEAKER_03: I guess,
• 1:26:20
  SPEAKER_03: to your bookstore's book club coming up at the beginning of the year.
• 1:26:24
  SPEAKER_03: And Wendy,
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_03: who,
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_03: let's just introduce her now,
• 1:26:27
  our next special guest who will be giving us her favorite book
• 1:26:31
  of the year,
• 1:26:32
  SPEAKER_03: Wendy Whitten,
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_03: such a generous friend as well online.
• 1:26:36
  I mean,
• 1:26:37
  again,
• 1:26:37
  I say that with all of them,
• 1:26:39
  but it's because each one of them,
• 1:26:40
  it's true that
• 1:26:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel it.
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I can't not say it.
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah,
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_00: the amount of support that we get from,
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_03: from Wendy and so many others,
• 1:26:47
  SPEAKER_03: like you said,
• 1:26:48
  SPEAKER_03: it's like wind in our sails every day.
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_03: But Wendy was sad because it's,
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_03: it's a local event in,
• 1:26:55
  SPEAKER_03: in Colorado and you know,
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_03: we'll,
• 1:26:58
  SPEAKER_03: we'll miss it.
• 1:26:59
  SPEAKER_03: But you said in there,
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_03: we'll have to see,
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_03: maybe someday we can do something,
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_03: on the mooks and the gripes or something like that.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I was, I just thought that would be fun, but how would we do it?
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it could be like a quarterly novella club or something like that.
• 1:27:11
  Get some of these shorter books that some of our favorite
• 1:27:13
  publishers are putting out,
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_03: like this one,
• 1:27:18
  SPEAKER_03: and do some kind of online Zoom book club.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_03: This is not me proposing it, even so much as throwing it out there.
• 1:27:27
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe by doing it, it'll start to form some kind of shape.
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_03: But it's not imminent...
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_03: In terms of plans.
• 1:27:37
  SPEAKER_03: But it's percolating.
• 1:27:38
  SPEAKER_03: But it's, yeah, it's a potential.
• 1:27:39
  SPEAKER_03: And this, again, would be a great, great book to do with that.
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_03: No, I love that.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, why don't we go ahead?
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_03: And this is our last one that we're reading to you to start,
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_03: to start this last group,
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_03: actually,
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_03: of our special guests.
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_03: This is Wendy.
• 1:27:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think you've read more than I have.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_03: Paul, do you want me to read this one or do you want to take over?
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_03: You've done such a great job.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've tried to give you the ones with the trickiest words.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I can do this one.
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_00: OK, it's all you.
• 1:28:10
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:28:11
  SPEAKER_03: It says, thank you for inviting me to share a favorite book of 2024.
• 1:28:14
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't difficult for me to choose.
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's an interesting thing to hear on this, isn't it?
• 1:28:20
  SPEAKER_03: Easily everyone says it's the opposite.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_03: Even though I read a number of excellent books this year,
• 1:28:24
  SPEAKER_03: because there was only one that left me with a book buzz,
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_03: that lightheaded feeling,
• 1:28:28
  SPEAKER_03: unable to start another book right away.
• 1:28:30
  And that was a reread of my childhood favorite,
• 1:28:33
  Jack London's The Call of the Wild.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_03: This story of Buck,
• 1:28:37
  a pet dog that was stolen from a home in California and sold
• 1:28:40
  into the Yukon
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_03: Territory to be used as a sled dog during the 1890s Klondike Gold Rush,
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_03: is not a cute dog story.
• 1:28:47
  SPEAKER_03: The dogs are not anthropomorphized.
• 1:28:49
  They're valued for their dog qualities and their strength and
• 1:28:52
  stamina in harsh conditions,
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_03: so they demand respect from the reader.
• 1:28:57
  The Call of the Wild has rightly been criticized for depictions
• 1:28:59
  of animal cruelty,
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_03: but London transports us into the Yukon,
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_03: a world apart from our own,
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_03: a place of deprivation,
• 1:29:07
  SPEAKER_03: of hard work,
• 1:29:08
  SPEAKER_03: that brings out the best and the worst in men and dogs.
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_03: Some are quickly defeated,
• 1:29:12
  SPEAKER_03: while others rise to the challenges to become stronger,
• 1:29:15
  SPEAKER_03: sharper,
• 1:29:16
  SPEAKER_03: better versions of themselves.
• 1:29:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I found that I didn't pity the dogs as hard as some passages were,
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_03: because I felt the dogs deserved my compassion and empathy,
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_03: but not pity.
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Buck is special, a large, strong dog.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_03: He comes to the Yukon already a keen observer of other dogs and men,
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_03: and a fast learner,
• 1:29:35
  SPEAKER_03: traits which enabled him not only to survive,
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_03: cruel men,
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_03: hunger,
• 1:29:39
  SPEAKER_03: cold injuries,
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_03: and challenges from other alpha dogs,
• 1:29:44
  SPEAKER_03: but to grow into the leader of the pack,
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_03: respected by dog and man.
• 1:29:49
  This is an adventure story with a protagonist we want fiercely
• 1:29:52
  to succeed and a
• 1:29:53
  visceral depiction of a unique time and place in the history of
• 1:29:56
  North America,
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_03: with dogs and men we root for and against.
• 1:30:00
  SPEAKER_03: For those reasons alone, this is a good read.
• 1:30:02
  But what makes this book so special to me is the way Jack
• 1:30:05
  London shares Buck's
• 1:30:06
  SPEAKER_03: transformation as he feels long-buried instincts coming alive,
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_03: feels his senses becoming more attuned to the natural world.
• 1:30:14
  feels his body becoming stronger and ultimately discovering
• 1:30:17
  that his place is not
• 1:30:19
  SPEAKER_03: in the world of men,
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_03: of humans.
• 1:30:21
  It's in the wild,
• 1:30:22
  hunting his own food,
• 1:30:23
  protecting his pack and territory.
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_03: London's language is transcendent,
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_03: reverential,
• 1:30:29
  SPEAKER_03: evocative,
• 1:30:29
  SPEAKER_03: and elegant,
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_03: and his respect for things primordial sings in every sentence.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_03: If time permits, well, Wendy, we're happy to do this.
• 1:30:39
  SPEAKER_03: Here is a passage I think encapsulates the story.
• 1:30:44
  And not only did he learn by experience,
• 1:30:46
  but instincts long dead became alive again.
• 1:30:48
  SPEAKER_03: The domesticated generations fell from him.
• 1:30:52
  SPEAKER_03: In vague ways,
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_03: he remembered back to the youth of the breed,
• 1:30:56
  to the time when wild dogs ranged in packs through the primeval
• 1:30:59
  forest and killed
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_03: their meat as they ran it down.
• 1:31:02
  It was no task for him to learn to fight with cut and slash and
• 1:31:06
  quick wolf snap.
• 1:31:07
  in this manner had fought forgotten ancestors they quickened
• 1:31:13
  the old life within
• 1:31:14
  and the old tricks which they had stamped into the hereditary
• 1:31:17
  of the breeds were
• 1:31:18
  his tricks they came to him without effort or discovery as
• 1:31:22
  though they had always
• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_03: been his
• 1:31:25
  SPEAKER_03: And when,
• 1:31:26
  SPEAKER_03: on the still,
• 1:31:27
  SPEAKER_03: cold nights,
• 1:31:28
  SPEAKER_03: he pointed his nose at a star and howled long and wolf-like,
• 1:31:32
  SPEAKER_03: it was his ancestors,
• 1:31:34
  SPEAKER_03: dead and dust,
• 1:31:35
  pointing nose at star and howling down through the centuries
• 1:31:39
  and through him.
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_03: And his cadences were their cadences,
• 1:31:44
  SPEAKER_03: the cadences which voiced their woe,
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_03: and what to them was the meaning of the stiffness and the cold and dark.
• 1:31:52
  SPEAKER_03: Thus,
• 1:31:53
  SPEAKER_03: as a token of what a puppet-themed life is,
• 1:31:56
  SPEAKER_03: the ancient song surged through him,
• 1:31:59
  SPEAKER_03: and he came into his own again.
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_03: I will often return to this book and cannot recommend it strongly enough.
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Wendy.
• 1:32:09
  SPEAKER_03: Paul, have you ever read The Call of the Wild?
• 1:32:11
  SPEAKER_03: I have.
• 1:32:12
  SPEAKER_03: I've read it.
• 1:32:13
  SPEAKER_03: I read it when I was young,
• 1:32:14
  SPEAKER_03: and then a couple years ago,
• 1:32:16
  SPEAKER_03: we were on a road trip,
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_03: and we listened to the audiobook with our boys when they were younger,
• 1:32:20
  SPEAKER_03: and yes,
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_03: to Wendy's point,
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_03: it is a harsh book,
• 1:32:23
  SPEAKER_03: and it is...
• 1:32:25
  wrongfully kind of bucketed,
• 1:32:27
  I think often is kind of this,
• 1:32:28
  you know,
• 1:32:29
  kid's book or like this.
• 1:32:31
  It's so easy to imagine what you think this book is and to kind
• 1:32:34
  of write it off.
• 1:32:35
  But I think that description by Wendy and that passage should
• 1:32:39
  give people an idea of,
• 1:32:40
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 1:32:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 1:32:41
  SPEAKER_03: this book contains a lot more than just that.
• 1:32:44
  And I mean,
• 1:32:45
  just reading,
• 1:32:45
  listening to you read that passage again,
• 1:32:48
  I forgot.
• 1:32:49
  SPEAKER_03: Jack London is an amazing writer for sure.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Some of those
• 1:32:54
  sections in there are just breathtakingly beautiful so yeah i
• 1:32:58
  chatted with wendy a
• 1:32:58
  little bit about this book offline and yeah we were talking
• 1:33:03
  about how it is called
• 1:33:04
  like a kid's book or something like that and i guess there are
• 1:33:07
  elements that maybe
• 1:33:09
  especially at a certain point in time might have been able to
• 1:33:13
  lend it towards that
• 1:33:14
  kind of a description but i think it's a lot more than that and
• 1:33:17
  she did a great job
• 1:33:18
  SPEAKER_03: of talking about a lot yeah
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I read it when I was really little, you know, kind of that thing.
• 1:33:25
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't remember it super well.
• 1:33:28
  But what I have read by Jack London since,
• 1:33:30
  like To Build a Fire,
• 1:33:32
  I've read many times.
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_03: It still makes me cold just to read it.
• 1:33:35
  SPEAKER_03: So good.
• 1:33:37
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, thanks for bringing.
• 1:33:38
  SPEAKER_03: I love it when, you know, I love all the new books that we hear about.
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_03: I also love it when someone goes back to an old favorite or,
• 1:33:45
  SPEAKER_03: or finally reads a classic they've been meaning to,
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_03: and it ends up being one of their favorite books again of the year.
• 1:33:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:33:53
  SPEAKER_03: All right, Paul, our next special guest is a group of special guests.
• 1:33:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:33:58
  SPEAKER_03: I love, I love how they did this.
• 1:34:01
  SPEAKER_03: This is our good friends from one bright book.
• 1:34:05
  SPEAKER_03: And, uh, I think they introduced themselves well.
• 1:34:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll just sit back and enjoy their recommendations.
• 1:34:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:34:13
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, Paul.
• 1:34:13
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, Trevor and listeners.
• 1:34:15
  SPEAKER_03: This is Rebecca Hussey,
• 1:34:17
  SPEAKER_03: and I'm here with two friends,
• 1:34:20
  SPEAKER_03: with Frances Evangelista and Dorian Stuber.
• 1:34:22
  SPEAKER_03: And we were recording a podcast today,
• 1:34:25
  and we thought we would just all together tell you about our
• 1:34:28
  favorite books of the year.
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I'll start us off.
• 1:34:32
  SPEAKER_03: Very hard to pick, but I settled on Opacities by Sophia Samatar.
• 1:34:37
  SPEAKER_03: I almost picked that, Rebecca.
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm glad you didn't.
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_02: I get to take it.
• 1:34:45
  SPEAKER_02: This is published from Soft Skull,
• 1:34:47
  SPEAKER_02: and it's a nonfiction book about writing and publishing and friendship.
• 1:34:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a good follow-up to Kate Zambrino's book,
• 1:34:55
  SPEAKER_02: To Write As If Already Dead,
• 1:34:57
  SPEAKER_02: which we actually have a podcast episode about that book.
• 1:35:02
  SPEAKER_03: But she is,
• 1:35:03
  SPEAKER_03: Sophia Samatar is writing in a lot of the book to a friend,
• 1:35:09
  SPEAKER_03: which is Kate,
• 1:35:10
  SPEAKER_03: and thinking about
• 1:35:13
  what it means to be visible as a writer and the kind of writing
• 1:35:17
  that she wants to
• 1:35:18
  do versus what it feels like to publish a book and be like a hyper-visible,
• 1:35:23
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:35:24
  public figure when what she really is longing for is a kind of
• 1:35:29
  private writing and,
• 1:35:32
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:35:33
  conversations with friends where she can really be who she is
• 1:35:39
  and write in a kind
• 1:35:41
  SPEAKER_03: of incomplete,
• 1:35:42
  SPEAKER_03: imperfect way,
• 1:35:44
  the kind of writing that can just go on and on and on and maybe
• 1:35:47
  isn't suitable for publication,
• 1:35:49
  SPEAKER_03: but is the kind of thing that she loves and wants to do.
• 1:35:52
  And she also thinks about what it means to be a writer of color
• 1:35:56
  and also a writer
• 1:35:57
  SPEAKER_03: of genre because she's written in fantasy.
• 1:36:03
  And so thinking about the ways that she has gotten pigeonholed
• 1:36:06
  in various ways as a
• 1:36:07
  SPEAKER_03: writer and how she's trying to like work around those constrictions.
• 1:36:11
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a really beautiful book.
• 1:36:13
  SPEAKER_03: Highly recommend it.
• 1:36:15
  SPEAKER_03: One of many favorites of this year.
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_03: So who wants to go next?
• 1:36:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'll go because I have more women writers for you here.
• 1:36:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you the story.
• 1:36:25
  SPEAKER_03: One of my favorite books of the year,
• 1:36:27
  SPEAKER_03: in addition to the one Rebecca just mentioned,
• 1:36:29
  SPEAKER_03: is Rural Hours,
• 1:36:30
  SPEAKER_03: The Country Lives of Virginia Woolf,
• 1:36:32
  SPEAKER_03: Sylvia Townsend Warner and Rosamund Lehman by Harriet Baker.
• 1:36:36
  SPEAKER_03: I've mentioned this on the podcast before, too.
• 1:36:40
  It's an examination of what happens with all three of these
• 1:36:44
  writers when they move
• 1:36:45
  SPEAKER_03: to the country.
• 1:36:46
  SPEAKER_03: and the minutiae,
• 1:36:47
  SPEAKER_03: the detail they engage in,
• 1:36:49
  SPEAKER_03: in their physical environment,
• 1:36:51
  SPEAKER_03: and how it changes their writing in a lot of different ways.
• 1:36:54
  SPEAKER_03: The book is eloquent.
• 1:36:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's exceptionally well-written, I think.
• 1:36:58
  And one of the parts that I really appreciate about it is that
• 1:37:01
  having read quite a
• 1:37:03
  SPEAKER_03: bit about all of these writers is that it brings something new and really
• 1:37:07
  SPEAKER_03: refreshing to the conversation.
• 1:37:08
  It is not,
• 1:37:11
  you know,
• 1:37:11
  a rehashing of the same stories,
• 1:37:13
  a resharing of the same
• 1:37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Insights and things like that, it's got a very different perspective.
• 1:37:20
  I don't want to say cozy because that's going to be interpreted
• 1:37:24
  as a simplistic way,
• 1:37:25
  SPEAKER_03: but it is cozy.
• 1:37:26
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 1:37:26
  it feels good because I think the satisfaction with the change
• 1:37:31
  in where they lived
• 1:37:32
  and how they lived for all three of these women brought a lot
• 1:37:36
  of revelations about
• 1:37:37
  SPEAKER_03: their own priorities,
• 1:37:38
  SPEAKER_03: their identities,
• 1:37:40
  SPEAKER_03: and how they wanted to execute their craft.
• 1:37:43
  So I definitely recommend Rural Hours to anyone that that
• 1:37:47
  sounds the least bit appealing to.
• 1:37:49
  SPEAKER_03: How about you, Dorian?
• 1:37:51
  SPEAKER_03: What did you pick?
• 1:37:52
  SPEAKER_01: I picked a book that will kind of pick up with the theme here of works of
• 1:37:55
  SPEAKER_01: nonfiction by female writers,
• 1:37:57
  SPEAKER_01: and that is
• 1:37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Naomi Klein's Doppelganger, A Trip Into the Middle of the World.
• 1:38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, released last year.
• 1:38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So recency bias, maybe.
• 1:38:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am actually not even finished this book.
• 1:38:10
  SPEAKER_03: I am listening to the audio book,
• 1:38:12
  SPEAKER_03: the Klein Reads Herself,
• 1:38:13
  SPEAKER_03: and it's kind of long,
• 1:38:14
  SPEAKER_03: taking me a while.
• 1:38:15
  But I had to choose this book because it is the book that has
• 1:38:18
  made me think the
• 1:38:19
  SPEAKER_03: most about stuff.
• 1:38:22
  SPEAKER_03: And particularly,
• 1:38:22
  SPEAKER_03: it's made me think about what Klein in the book calls diagonalism,
• 1:38:25
  SPEAKER_01: the way in which
• 1:38:27
  SPEAKER_01: elements of the far right have kind of,
• 1:38:30
  are kind of like a distorted mirror of so many of the tenets of
• 1:38:35
  neoliberalism that
• 1:38:36
  SPEAKER_03: really have kind of,
• 1:38:37
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:38:38
  SPEAKER_03: ruled our world since 1980,
• 1:38:39
  SPEAKER_03: let's say.
• 1:38:41
  SPEAKER_03: And,
• 1:38:42
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:38:42
  it starts off as a kind of like almost lighthearted sort of
• 1:38:45
  investigation about
• 1:38:46
  like a kind of frustrated rant about how people keep confusing
• 1:38:49
  her with the other Naomi,
• 1:38:51
  SPEAKER_03: with Naomi Wolf.
• 1:38:53
  SPEAKER_03: And that's sort of the little, the Doné, as James would say.
• 1:38:56
  SPEAKER_03: But the,
• 1:38:57
  SPEAKER_03: But it really becomes something so much more substantial,
• 1:38:59
  SPEAKER_03: and it's just covering so many different,
• 1:39:02
  SPEAKER_03: especially elements of response to COVID and that public health crisis,
• 1:39:08
  but all kinds of other aspects of life today that I hadn't
• 1:39:12
  anticipated before.
• 1:39:15
  neurodivergence,
• 1:39:16
  for example,
• 1:39:17
  just in the section that I have just finished listening to.
• 1:39:19
  SPEAKER_00: So really,
• 1:39:21
  it's been helping me to try to make some sense of things and to
• 1:39:25
  not dismiss views
• 1:39:28
  SPEAKER_03: that I think are harmful and pernicious.
• 1:39:30
  SPEAKER_03: They are harmful and pernicious,
• 1:39:32
  SPEAKER_03: but they are responding to some things that are really important.
• 1:39:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what Klein gives me a reality check on.
• 1:39:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's been bracing in that regard.
• 1:39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Also, Bracing is listening to y'all on your podcast, Trevor and Paul.
• 1:39:48
  And we wish you to a great new year worth of reading and all
• 1:39:54
  your listeners as well.
• 1:39:56
  Thanks to all the hours,
• 1:39:57
  especially I'll speak for my own self on my commute.
• 1:40:00
  SPEAKER_03: You have helped me a lot.
• 1:40:02
  SPEAKER_03: So happy end of the year to you both and happy new year to you.
• 1:40:07
  SPEAKER_03: Take care, guys.
• 1:40:08
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 1:40:10
  SPEAKER_03: Bye, Trevor.
• 1:40:10
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 1:40:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, Paul, I'll be honest with you.
• 1:40:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 1:40:15
  SPEAKER_03: while I would not have been able to pick which ones these guys,
• 1:40:19
  SPEAKER_03: each of them,
• 1:40:21
  SPEAKER_03: put as their top read of the year,
• 1:40:23
  SPEAKER_03: they are so great to follow online,
• 1:40:26
  SPEAKER_03: so great to listen to on their podcast,
• 1:40:29
  that I feel like these are books that I've heard about to just
• 1:40:34
  be happy to see them
• 1:40:36
  SPEAKER_03: on their list.
• 1:40:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I haven't read any of them yet.
• 1:40:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry, Paul.
• 1:40:40
  you guys have done a great job promoting them and expressing
• 1:40:43
  your affection for them.
• 1:40:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's, it's me.
• 1:40:48
  SPEAKER_03: No, they do such a great job always.
• 1:40:50
  SPEAKER_03: And like you said,
• 1:40:51
  SPEAKER_03: they add so many books to my list,
• 1:40:52
  SPEAKER_03: but in some ways that's a,
• 1:40:54
  SPEAKER_03: that's a problem.
• 1:40:55
  SPEAKER_03: They add so many great books.
• 1:40:56
  SPEAKER_03: I can't get to them all.
• 1:40:56
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't read these yet either,
• 1:40:58
  SPEAKER_03: but yeah,
• 1:40:58
  SPEAKER_03: they did such a,
• 1:40:59
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 1:41:00
  SPEAKER_03: wonderful job of describing them that they bumped them up.
• 1:41:03
  SPEAKER_03: They bumped them up the list again.
• 1:41:06
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:41:06
  SPEAKER_03: Another former guest and we're thinking planned future guest,
• 1:41:12
  SPEAKER_03: actually both of the rest of these are,
• 1:41:15
  SPEAKER_03: is our good friend,
• 1:41:17
  SPEAKER_03: Simon.
• 1:41:18
  SPEAKER_03: Simon, I have been just enjoying his Instagram posts of his tea advent.
• 1:41:25
  I don't know how many years I've followed that,
• 1:41:27
  but it makes it feel like Christmas.
• 1:41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
• 1:41:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I appreciate you doing that.
• 1:41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm excited to hear about your book.
• 1:41:36
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, Simon here from the Tea or Books podcast slash stuckinabook.com.
• 1:41:42
  SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily my favourite read of the year,
• 1:41:43
  but definitely my most unusual and brilliant book of the year
• 1:41:46
  is A Body Made of Glass,
• 1:41:48
  SPEAKER_02: A Cultural History of Hypochondria by Caroline Crampton,
• 1:41:52
  SPEAKER_02: who might be known as the host of the She Done It podcast,
• 1:41:56
  SPEAKER_02: but also someone who experiences hypochondria or health anxiety.
• 1:42:02
  SPEAKER_02: And in this really interesting,
• 1:42:04
  SPEAKER_02: brilliant book that combines memoir with research,
• 1:42:07
  SPEAKER_02: he looks at what it's like to have hypochondria,
• 1:42:11
  SPEAKER_02: how it's treated,
• 1:42:12
  SPEAKER_02: how particularly women and people of colour are treated in that arena.
• 1:42:16
  SPEAKER_02: But also looking back through history,
• 1:42:18
  including a vogue centuries back for people to believe that
• 1:42:22
  they were literally
• 1:42:23
  SPEAKER_02: made of glass,
• 1:42:23
  SPEAKER_02: hence the title.
• 1:42:24
  They would tie cushions to themselves because they thought they
• 1:42:27
  might shatter.
• 1:42:29
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 1:42:29
  SPEAKER_02: yeah,
• 1:42:30
  SPEAKER_02: I found it a really moving book,
• 1:42:32
  SPEAKER_02: a fascinating book and a really helpful book,
• 1:42:35
  SPEAKER_02: actually.
• 1:42:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I listened to the audiobook, which is brilliant.
• 1:42:38
  SPEAKER_02: And, yeah, it's not my normal go-to stuff.
• 1:42:43
  It's not,
• 1:42:43
  you know,
• 1:42:44
  set in a 1930s cottage,
• 1:42:45
  but I absolutely loved it and I really recommend it.
• 1:42:50
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:42:50
  SPEAKER_03: Another one I have not read.
• 1:42:51
  SPEAKER_03: And to be honest,
• 1:42:52
  SPEAKER_03: if I just knew the premise,
• 1:42:54
  SPEAKER_03: probably wouldn't be like,
• 1:42:55
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 1:42:55
  SPEAKER_03: I want to read that.
• 1:42:58
  SPEAKER_03: But he does such a good job,
• 1:43:00
  SPEAKER_03: again,
• 1:43:00
  SPEAKER_03: as we've said,
• 1:43:01
  SPEAKER_03: of making it sound like,
• 1:43:03
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 1:43:04
  that's got a lot more to it than just what maybe a surface
• 1:43:08
  level blurb would suggest.
• 1:43:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:43:11
  SPEAKER_03: And he's another example of what we were talking about earlier,
• 1:43:13
  SPEAKER_03: where so often the books that he describes maybe wouldn't
• 1:43:17
  naturally be something that would draw me but every time i hear
• 1:43:20
  him talking about
• 1:43:22
  it on his wonderful um podcast with rachel book to your books
• 1:43:27
  to your books yeah um
• 1:43:29
  or read what he's written about one of these books he has that
• 1:43:32
  amazing power of
• 1:43:33
  just winning you over to these books that like i said maybe on
• 1:43:37
  the surface wouldn't
• 1:43:38
  draw me in but every time i've read something that he's
• 1:43:40
  recommended i'm just like
• 1:43:41
  SPEAKER_03: yep he knows what he's talking about
• 1:43:44
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:43:44
  SPEAKER_03: And our last special guest for the year joined us to talk about Victorian
• 1:43:50
  SPEAKER_03: literature in the past.
• 1:43:51
  And fortunately,
• 1:43:54
  I can say she doesn't need to convince me to read this book,
• 1:43:57
  though.
• 1:43:57
  SPEAKER_03: She definitely makes me want to reread it, which I often do.
• 1:44:00
  SPEAKER_03: But this is our good friend Rowan.
• 1:44:02
  SPEAKER_03: Rowan, please take it away.
• 1:44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Trevor and Paul.
• 1:44:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's Rowan.
• 1:44:08
  Thank you so much for inviting me to share my favorite read of
• 1:44:10
  the year with you
• 1:44:11
  SPEAKER_00: and your listeners.
• 1:44:12
  It's actually a book I had avoided for a long time precisely
• 1:44:15
  because I had heard it
• 1:44:16
  SPEAKER_00: praised so highly by so many readers.
• 1:44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you hate it when you grab up a book like this,
• 1:44:21
  SPEAKER_00: ready to be blown away,
• 1:44:23
  SPEAKER_00: only to find yourself unable to quite see what all the fuss is about?
• 1:44:26
  An example of this happening to me would be Claire Keegan's
• 1:44:29
  Small Things Like These,
• 1:44:30
  SPEAKER_00: which I did think was very good,
• 1:44:32
  but it wasn't quite the extraordinary reading experience that
• 1:44:35
  the enthusiasm for it
• 1:44:36
  SPEAKER_00: online among our bookish friends had led me to expect.
• 1:44:40
  But in this case,
• 1:44:41
  I ended up regretting my hesitation because the book,
• 1:44:44
  J.L.
• 1:44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Carr's A Month in the Country, did not disappoint at all.
• 1:44:48
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, if anything, it was better than I had hoped or imagined.
• 1:44:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is pretty much a perfect book, isn't it?
• 1:44:53
  SPEAKER_00: It is short, properly called a novella, I guess, but it contains so much.
• 1:44:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's about art.
• 1:44:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's about love.
• 1:45:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's about grief.
• 1:45:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's about war.
• 1:45:03
  I thought it was,
• 1:45:03
  above all,
• 1:45:04
  a meditation on our relationship to the past.
• 1:45:07
  and especially on what we have lost and how we now live with
• 1:45:09
  that loss in the present.
• 1:45:12
  SPEAKER_00: It evokes so eloquently the allure of nostalgia,
• 1:45:15
  SPEAKER_00: but I thought it ultimately rejected that backward-looking draw.
• 1:45:19
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't insist that we let go of the past,
• 1:45:21
  SPEAKER_00: but it acknowledges really poignantly that we can't help but go forward.
• 1:45:27
  As Tom says,
• 1:45:28
  we can ask and ask,
• 1:45:30
  but we can't have again what once seemed ours forever.
• 1:45:33
  SPEAKER_00: The way things looked,
• 1:45:35
  SPEAKER_00: that church alone in the fields,
• 1:45:37
  SPEAKER_00: a bed on a belfry floor,
• 1:45:39
  SPEAKER_00: a remembered voice,
• 1:45:41
  SPEAKER_00: the touch of a hand,
• 1:45:42
  SPEAKER_00: a loved face.
• 1:45:44
  SPEAKER_00: They've gone and you can only wait for the pain to pass.
• 1:45:49
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I hadn't put off reading a month in the country,
• 1:45:52
  SPEAKER_00: and yet now that I think about it,
• 1:45:53
  it might not have struck me so deeply if I had read it earlier
• 1:45:56
  in my life,
• 1:45:57
  SPEAKER_00: so it really was the right book at the right moment for me.
• 1:46:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my favorite read of 2024,
• 1:46:03
  and I look forward to hearing about everyone else's when this
• 1:46:05
  episode airs.
• 1:46:07
  SPEAKER_00: On that note,
• 1:46:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'd just like to add that your cheerful,
• 1:46:10
  SPEAKER_00: enthusiastic,
• 1:46:11
  SPEAKER_00: well-informed,
• 1:46:12
  and astonishingly wide-ranging bookish conversations have kept
• 1:46:15
  me company for many
• 1:46:16
  SPEAKER_00: happy hours in 2024.
• 1:46:18
  So thank you both so much for doing this,
• 1:46:20
  and all the best to both of you for 2025.
• 1:46:26
  SPEAKER_03: I do intend to reread A Month in the Country this year.
• 1:46:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's been too long since I read it, and it's time.
• 1:46:35
  SPEAKER_03: It'll be my third time reading it.
• 1:46:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:46:37
  SPEAKER_03: I love this book.
• 1:46:39
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 1:46:39
  SPEAKER_03: You are the person who first introduced me to it,
• 1:46:42
  SPEAKER_03: and I think I've read it twice as well,
• 1:46:44
  SPEAKER_03: so I'm with you.
• 1:46:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's a slim...
• 1:46:47
  SPEAKER_03: book,
• 1:46:48
  SPEAKER_03: and I wouldn't say it's an easy read quickly,
• 1:46:50
  SPEAKER_03: but it is one you could read quickly,
• 1:46:51
  but it also kind of is one you should just probably sink into
• 1:46:55
  and take your time,
• 1:46:56
  SPEAKER_03: especially on a reread.
• 1:46:57
  SPEAKER_03: Are we already building out a calendar of the novella?
• 1:47:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think we might be.
• 1:47:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 1:47:04
  and I will just add that Rowan is actually the special guest on
• 1:47:09
  the end of year
• 1:47:10
  SPEAKER_03: episode for One Bright Book.
• 1:47:12
  SPEAKER_03: So talk about a great lineup of people who you just heard from.
• 1:47:16
  SPEAKER_03: If you want to hear more, check that one out.
• 1:47:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't wait to listen to it.
• 1:47:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:47:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm so excited.
• 1:47:21
  I've been waiting for the perfect time when I'm able to kind of
• 1:47:28
  be doing something
• 1:47:28
  SPEAKER_03: pleasant while I listen.
• 1:47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:47:31
  SPEAKER_00: Same there.
• 1:47:31
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:47:32
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:47:34
  SPEAKER_03: All right, Paul, time for our number ones.
• 1:47:37
  Oh,
• 1:47:38
  I can never believe when we get to this point in the year,
• 1:47:40
  but it is time.
• 1:47:42
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:47:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well,
• 1:47:43
  SPEAKER_03: despite reading widely and voraciously,
• 1:47:45
  SPEAKER_03: I think,
• 1:47:47
  SPEAKER_03: I guess I'm nothing if not predictable,
• 1:47:49
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor,
• 1:47:49
  SPEAKER_03: because for the second year in a row,
• 1:47:51
  SPEAKER_03: my top book of the year is by Cormac McCarthy.
• 1:47:54
  SPEAKER_03: This year, Sutry made my top slot.
• 1:47:59
  SPEAKER_03: I've talked about it before.
• 1:48:00
  SPEAKER_03: The combination of,
• 1:48:03
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:48:03
  Cormac McCarthy's recent death and then last year finishing
• 1:48:07
  both The Passenger and
• 1:48:08
  SPEAKER_03: Stella Maris,
• 1:48:09
  SPEAKER_03: the two books that shared my top spot last year.
• 1:48:12
  SPEAKER_03: All of that kind of prompted one of my 2024 reading projects,
• 1:48:15
  which was to go back to the very beginning and just slowly make
• 1:48:18
  my way through all
• 1:48:19
  SPEAKER_03: of Cormac McCarthy's books chronologically.
• 1:48:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so I've done that.
• 1:48:22
  I've made my way through the first four of his novels and one
• 1:48:24
  of his plays this year.
• 1:48:26
  SPEAKER_03: And the most recent one I finished was Sutri,
• 1:48:28
  SPEAKER_03: which many people,
• 1:48:30
  SPEAKER_03: including McCarthy himself,
• 1:48:31
  SPEAKER_03: considered to be his magnum opus.
• 1:48:33
  And having now read it twice,
• 1:48:35
  I find myself falling more and more into that camp as well.
• 1:48:38
  SPEAKER_03: I saw someone say that some of his books,
• 1:48:41
  SPEAKER_03: like Blood Meridian and some of the other ones that are in the running,
• 1:48:45
  They're masterful examples of storytelling and pace and things
• 1:48:48
  like that.
• 1:48:48
  SPEAKER_03: But Sutri is McCarthy at the top of his game as a stylist.
• 1:48:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I really like that.
• 1:48:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's a lot of truth to that.
• 1:48:55
  SPEAKER_03: Although I would argue that,
• 1:48:56
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:48:56
  SPEAKER_03: all of his best books are a nice blend of both storytelling and style.
• 1:49:00
  SPEAKER_03: But this one is just absolutely beautiful.
• 1:49:03
  We mentioned our buddy Chris Villa just a minute ago in some of
• 1:49:07
  his YouTube videos.
• 1:49:09
  SPEAKER_03: As I was preparing for this,
• 1:49:10
  SPEAKER_03: I realized just a couple of weeks ago,
• 1:49:12
  SPEAKER_03: he recorded an absolutely wonderful video all about Satri.
• 1:49:16
  And so I've been watching that over the last week and just
• 1:49:18
  absolutely loving that
• 1:49:20
  SPEAKER_03: as I thought about what I wanted to say about this book.
• 1:49:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm going to
• 1:49:23
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to crib a little bit from some of the stuff he says,
• 1:49:25
  SPEAKER_03: but as always,
• 1:49:26
  SPEAKER_03: he does an excellent job of introducing this book,
• 1:49:29
  SPEAKER_03: but also delving so deeply into the text.
• 1:49:32
  SPEAKER_03: And he's done this with certain books,
• 1:49:34
  SPEAKER_03: but this one in particular,
• 1:49:35
  probably the first five or six minutes of his video are just
• 1:49:38
  him doing close
• 1:49:39
  SPEAKER_03: readings of this book,
• 1:49:40
  which I just loved so much as he's kind of reveling in the
• 1:49:43
  beauty and complexity of
• 1:49:45
  SPEAKER_03: McCarthy's language.
• 1:49:46
  SPEAKER_03: And at one point he said something that I immediately wrote down.
• 1:49:49
  SPEAKER_03: He says...
• 1:49:50
  SPEAKER_03: describing Satri.
• 1:49:52
  SPEAKER_03: He says, it's a feast of language.
• 1:49:54
  SPEAKER_03: Who cares what's even happening?
• 1:49:56
  SPEAKER_03: The first time you read it, just read it out loud and revel in its sound.
• 1:50:00
  SPEAKER_03: And that's exactly how I felt.
• 1:50:01
  And obviously what I seek out more and more from literature in
• 1:50:05
  my favorite books,
• 1:50:06
  SPEAKER_03: as I've talked about.
• 1:50:07
  SPEAKER_03: So,
• 1:50:07
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:50:08
  Chris goes on in that video and he mentioned something I've
• 1:50:10
  thought a lot about
• 1:50:10
  SPEAKER_03: while I have read McCarthy over the years,
• 1:50:13
  SPEAKER_03: which is how this beautiful and majestic language that he
• 1:50:17
  SPEAKER_03: is so known for,
• 1:50:19
  plays against and contrasts with the harsh and violent and
• 1:50:22
  sometimes even depraved
• 1:50:23
  SPEAKER_03: content within his books.
• 1:50:25
  And just Chris talks a lot about that fascinating tension and
• 1:50:28
  balance that is
• 1:50:30
  SPEAKER_03: created by that,
• 1:50:30
  SPEAKER_03: which I love.
• 1:50:32
  SPEAKER_03: And he also said something,
• 1:50:33
  SPEAKER_03: he says,
• 1:50:34
  he's talking about how it teaches us to appreciate aesthetic
• 1:50:37
  beauty and to engage
• 1:50:39
  SPEAKER_03: with art on that level.
• 1:50:41
  SPEAKER_03: And he says, otherwise, we're only facing the deplorable sides of life.
• 1:50:44
  SPEAKER_03: And again,
• 1:50:44
  SPEAKER_03: this is another quote I wrote down from his video,
• 1:50:46
  SPEAKER_03: which word for word,
• 1:50:48
  SPEAKER_03: because I loved it so much.
• 1:50:48
  He says,
• 1:50:49
  books like this challenge us and teach us how to reconcile the
• 1:50:53
  two sides of life.
• 1:50:54
  SPEAKER_03: How do we find beauty from beneath burden?
• 1:50:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that just stopped me in my tracks.
• 1:50:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like Chris is often so eloquent, but that was just amazing.
• 1:51:02
  SPEAKER_03: How do we find beauty from beneath burden?
• 1:51:04
  And I think that just eloquently sums up something that you and
• 1:51:07
  I talk about all
• 1:51:08
  SPEAKER_03: the time,
• 1:51:09
  which is how literature and other forms of art can do such
• 1:51:12
  powerful work when it
• 1:51:12
  comes to kind of helping us engage with and better understand
• 1:51:15
  the human experience
• 1:51:16
  SPEAKER_03: and not shy away from some of the darkness and the sadness that happens.
• 1:51:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so in the case of Satri,
• 1:51:22
  I think that's done so masterfully as we get to know this very
• 1:51:26
  troubled soul who's
• 1:51:28
  doing his best to kind of make his way through this brutal and
• 1:51:30
  often heartbreaking world.
• 1:51:33
  SPEAKER_03: But thanks to McCarthy,
• 1:51:34
  SPEAKER_03: instead of coming out of this book feeling discouraged or pessimistic,
• 1:51:36
  I somehow ended up feeling more empathy and just an
• 1:51:40
  appreciation for those who are
• 1:51:42
  out there doing their best to kind of make their way through
• 1:51:44
  the world and find
• 1:51:45
  SPEAKER_03: connections with the people who are around them.
• 1:51:47
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, my number one book of the year, Satri.
• 1:51:51
  SPEAKER_03: On the reread, I think I loved it even more than I did the first time.
• 1:51:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's just absolutely a masterpiece.
• 1:51:58
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 1:51:58
  SPEAKER_03: Still one of the ones of his I have not read.
• 1:52:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:52:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if you don't trust me, watch Chris Villa's video.
• 1:52:05
  SPEAKER_00: I do trust you.
• 1:52:06
  SPEAKER_00: I do trust you.
• 1:52:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but he did that magic with War and Peace.
• 1:52:11
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe he can do it.
• 1:52:13
  SPEAKER_03: Finally make it so that it's just the next thing I do.
• 1:52:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:52:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 1:52:17
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe.
• 1:52:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's beautiful.
• 1:52:18
  SPEAKER_03: Beautiful book.
• 1:52:20
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:52:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, no surprise here.
• 1:52:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's okay, Paul.
• 1:52:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think sometimes you worry about this.
• 1:52:26
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 1:52:27
  SPEAKER_03: I spoiled your top two.
• 1:52:29
  SPEAKER_03: For me,
• 1:52:29
  the fun is in making the list and making it just as honest as I
• 1:52:34
  can and then seeing
• 1:52:36
  SPEAKER_03: where the cards fall,
• 1:52:37
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:52:38
  SPEAKER_03: without having to worry about all that.
• 1:52:40
  And this is one where,
• 1:52:41
  you know,
• 1:52:44
  similar to like Beth Brower,
• 1:52:45
  whom I've met now,
• 1:52:47
  where I'm like,
• 1:52:49
  People might think I'm cheating and putting them higher than
• 1:52:52
  they deserve,
• 1:52:53
  SPEAKER_03: where in reality,
• 1:52:54
  SPEAKER_03: if I didn't,
• 1:52:55
  SPEAKER_03: I would be cheating to avoid that perception that I'm cheating.
• 1:52:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:52:59
  Mark Haber's Lesser Ruins is just such a meaningful book to me
• 1:53:05
  for many reasons.
• 1:53:07
  SPEAKER_03: The writing is lovely.
• 1:53:09
  SPEAKER_03: The flow, the pressure, the humor, the grief.
• 1:53:16
  SPEAKER_03: It kind of has everything in it.
• 1:53:21
  And again,
• 1:53:24
  we've talked about it extensively on a special episode we had
• 1:53:28
  about it.
• 1:53:29
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah,
• 1:53:29
  SPEAKER_03: I find it purely incidental that,
• 1:53:33
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:53:33
  a good friend is also one of my favorite authors and that I
• 1:53:38
  look forward to what
• 1:53:42
  SPEAKER_03: else he publishes,
• 1:53:43
  SPEAKER_03: not just because like,
• 1:53:45
  SPEAKER_03: oh,
• 1:53:45
  SPEAKER_03: I hope my friend does well,
• 1:53:47
  SPEAKER_03: but because I just can't wait to read it because I love his style.
• 1:53:51
  SPEAKER_03: I love his verve.
• 1:53:52
  SPEAKER_03: I love his perspectives.
• 1:53:54
  SPEAKER_03: I love his questioning.
• 1:53:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:53:56
  SPEAKER_03: and his insights.
• 1:53:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'll just read one of my, one of my favorite lines.
• 1:53:59
  SPEAKER_03: I may have read this in the, in the episode, but I can't remember.
• 1:54:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that's okay.
• 1:54:05
  SPEAKER_03: This is our narrator.
• 1:54:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um,
• 1:54:07
  kind of later on in the book you know there's a lot of frenetic
• 1:54:11
  moments a lot of
• 1:54:12
  pacing a lot of him you know being his mediocre um self uh a
• 1:54:20
  lot of just strange
• 1:54:21
  things that are going on but then there are these moments of
• 1:54:26
  deep reflection it
• 1:54:27
  SPEAKER_03: says
• 1:54:29
  SPEAKER_03: I recalled some indiscriminate morning waking up beside her,
• 1:54:33
  SPEAKER_03: observing the shape of her unconscious back,
• 1:54:36
  SPEAKER_03: the slow rise and fall of sleeping breaths,
• 1:54:39
  SPEAKER_03: knowing one day she...
• 1:54:40
  SPEAKER_03: us...
• 1:54:43
  SPEAKER_03: This would be gone,
• 1:54:46
  and how delicate and swiftly obscured those rare moments of
• 1:54:49
  naked clarity are,
• 1:54:51
  SPEAKER_03: I thought then,
• 1:54:52
  SPEAKER_03: and think again now.
• 1:54:54
  SPEAKER_03: The seconds which are solemn and good,
• 1:54:57
  SPEAKER_03: like that anonymous morning God knows how many years ago,
• 1:55:00
  SPEAKER_03: one of thousands,
• 1:55:02
  SPEAKER_03: where I awoke and knew enough to observe the passing tremor of time,
• 1:55:08
  SPEAKER_03: like the flutter of wings,
• 1:55:10
  SPEAKER_03: the final nature of all of us.
• 1:55:15
  SPEAKER_03: Just beautiful and profound.
• 1:55:20
  SPEAKER_03: And one of those moments where you're reading it and you're going,
• 1:55:23
  SPEAKER_03: the thing you're discussing in this passage is happening to me right now.
• 1:55:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's a moment.
• 1:55:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's an insight.
• 1:55:32
  And yeah,
• 1:55:33
  I mean,
• 1:55:34
  as tight as this is to this particular narrator's thoughts,
• 1:55:38
  SPEAKER_03: The book is expansive.
• 1:55:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 1:55:40
  it covers so many things and grief as a theme is not limited
• 1:55:44
  just to this narrator
• 1:55:45
  SPEAKER_03: and his wife.
• 1:55:48
  SPEAKER_03: it's so many losses.
• 1:55:50
  Many horrible things that remind our character and all of us
• 1:55:54
  how fragile things are
• 1:55:55
  SPEAKER_03: and how vulnerable we are.
• 1:55:59
  SPEAKER_03: And,
• 1:55:59
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:55:59
  it's about art and the pursuit of that ineffable thing as
• 1:56:06
  you're trying to express
• 1:56:08
  SPEAKER_03: these emotions that we feel.
• 1:56:11
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, that it can function even in this
• 1:56:16
  horrible and often beautiful great mess uh of things you know
• 1:56:23
  so yes just loved it
• 1:56:25
  um and and again don't think that the temptation wasn't to be
• 1:56:28
  like well but is it
• 1:56:30
  isn't it you know is it really my top read do i need to put it
• 1:56:33
  somewhere lower
• 1:56:34
  SPEAKER_03: because of
• 1:56:35
  SPEAKER_03: And just again,
• 1:56:36
  people know that we know Mark and talk with him and have him on
• 1:56:43
  our show and all of that.
• 1:56:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no, that would be the dishonest part.
• 1:56:47
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm so glad you did that.
• 1:56:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I agree.
• 1:56:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it very easily could have been my number one.
• 1:56:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 1:56:53
  SPEAKER_03: a lot of these books in our top five,
• 1:56:55
  SPEAKER_03: like we talk about,
• 1:56:56
  SPEAKER_03: you have to make these choices and it's rough.
• 1:56:58
  SPEAKER_03: But no, this is so deserving of number one.
• 1:57:00
  SPEAKER_03: And for all the reasons you just so beautifully described and
• 1:57:04
  SPEAKER_03: Anybody who hasn't listened to that episode with Mark,
• 1:57:06
  SPEAKER_03: go back and listen and you will see just what we see in him.
• 1:57:12
  He's so smart and just that passion that flows through into his
• 1:57:16
  characters that he
• 1:57:17
  SPEAKER_03: has himself is another thing that I love about this.
• 1:57:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, in this book too, there's...
• 1:57:23
  SPEAKER_03: just beyond the,
• 1:57:25
  SPEAKER_03: there's the darkness and the sorrow,
• 1:57:26
  SPEAKER_03: but there's also the love of life,
• 1:57:28
  the passion for coffee and dance music and art and all these
• 1:57:32
  things that just,
• 1:57:33
  SPEAKER_03: it does it's,
• 1:57:34
  SPEAKER_03: I can't remember we talked about it in the episode,
• 1:57:36
  SPEAKER_03: but I think he describes it as like the bulwark,
• 1:57:38
  SPEAKER_03: bulwarks we build up against death or something,
• 1:57:40
  SPEAKER_03: which is one of my favorite lines of any book ever.
• 1:57:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that can be kind of a cynical way to look at it,
• 1:57:45
  SPEAKER_03: but it's also,
• 1:57:46
  I think can be spun into a positive way where that is the
• 1:57:49
  things that make life
• 1:57:50
  SPEAKER_03: worth it.
• 1:57:51
  SPEAKER_03: living is just all of these various nerdy passions that we all have.
• 1:57:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's just, like you said, this book contains so much.
• 1:57:59
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, I've read it once and I really do.
• 1:58:02
  SPEAKER_03: Another one to add to my 2025 spreadsheet.
• 1:58:04
  I'm going to have my whole year planned out,
• 1:58:07
  but I can't wait to go back and revisit this one.
• 1:58:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's so good.
• 1:58:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I love how you put that too.
• 1:58:13
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes these nerdy little pursuits that we have,
• 1:58:16
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:58:16
  SPEAKER_03: that's kind of what we're doing in a way.
• 1:58:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know,
• 1:58:22
  SPEAKER_03: sometimes when things happen in the world,
• 1:58:25
  SPEAKER_03: it can be a little bit,
• 1:58:26
  it can feel a little bit discombobulating to come on here maybe
• 1:58:30
  the next day.
• 1:58:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:58:31
  and record an episode about a book that we're really enjoying
• 1:58:34
  and to do it in a way
• 1:58:35
  SPEAKER_03: that's like,
• 1:58:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh,
• 1:58:37
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:58:38
  SPEAKER_03: and,
• 1:58:39
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:58:40
  SPEAKER_03: miraculously Paul or whatever,
• 1:58:41
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:58:42
  SPEAKER_03: it can feel like,
• 1:58:42
  SPEAKER_03: shouldn't we all be grieving out there and doing all that?
• 1:58:45
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like, no, this is part of it.
• 1:58:49
  SPEAKER_03: And these are some of the things that make it, um, keep going and, and,
• 1:58:53
  And we have gotten some really meaningful feedback from some
• 1:58:58
  people this year that
• 1:59:01
  SPEAKER_03: just kind of shows that,
• 1:59:03
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:59:04
  SPEAKER_03: we,
• 1:59:04
  SPEAKER_03: we love what we're doing and we,
• 1:59:06
  SPEAKER_03: we recognize that,
• 1:59:09
  SPEAKER_03: you know,
• 1:59:09
  we're all in this together in a way and that these moments of
• 1:59:13
  solace and reflection
• 1:59:15
  SPEAKER_03: and of excitement,
• 1:59:15
  SPEAKER_03: um,
• 1:59:17
  SPEAKER_03: are meaningful, even in and maybe even especially in difficult times.
• 1:59:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I appreciate that insight that you had there at the end.
• 1:59:26
  SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely.
• 1:59:27
  SPEAKER_03: You just said that so well.
• 1:59:28
  SPEAKER_03: I agree with you.
• 1:59:29
  SPEAKER_03: There are times where, like you said, it can feel like
• 1:59:33
  SPEAKER_03: there should be bigger things on our mind.
• 1:59:35
  SPEAKER_03: And this year and every year,
• 1:59:37
  SPEAKER_03: these conversations with you,
• 1:59:39
  SPEAKER_03: and like you said,
• 1:59:39
  SPEAKER_03: the conversations with listeners and the feedback we receive,
• 1:59:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean,
• 1:59:43
  SPEAKER_03: they really are one of the highlights of every year.
• 1:59:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's been true again this year.
• 1:59:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's
• 1:59:50
  it gives me so much excitement and hope about humanity and
• 1:59:53
  about all the wonderful
• 1:59:54
  people out there who are just kind thoughtful smart well-read
• 1:59:59
  curious people um
• 2:00:00
  it's it's honestly one of the things that has become one of the
• 2:00:04
  highlights of my
• 2:00:05
  life so yeah now as we kind of reflect at the end of this year
• 2:00:08
  and um think about
• 2:00:10
  SPEAKER_03: have we been doing this what for
• 2:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: four-ish years now.
• 2:00:13
  SPEAKER_03: I can't believe it.
• 2:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: Getting close.
• 2:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 2:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 2:00:16
  SPEAKER_03: it's just,
• 2:00:17
  I can't say how meaningful it's been to be able to do this with
• 2:00:20
  you and to,
• 2:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: yeah,
• 2:00:21
  SPEAKER_03: to hear from everyone out there.
• 2:00:23
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you to everybody who contributes in various ways,
• 2:00:26
  SPEAKER_03: even if it's just a quick thumbs up or a like,
• 2:00:28
  or if it's a comment or coming to join us or sending in your
• 2:00:31
  favorite books.
• 2:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it is all just so beautiful to me.
• 2:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: And we hope these find you well.
• 2:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: We hope that even if things are not well, that these kind of help.
• 2:00:45
  SPEAKER_03: They certainly, as you said, they help us.
• 2:00:48
  SPEAKER_03: They help me.
• 2:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's that time of year to kind of reflect back and look ahead.
• 2:00:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited for the year to come.
• 2:00:58
  as stressful as many things are and i'm excited for our reading
• 2:01:03
  projects i'm
• 2:01:03
  excited for what we'll learn and and uh as we go through all of
• 2:01:08
  that and yeah i
• 2:01:09
  look forward to interacting uh again with many of our listeners
• 2:01:13
  and for now we'll
• 2:01:14
  wish y'all a very uh merry christmas happy holidays and a happy
• 2:01:19
  new year we'll be
• 2:01:21
  SPEAKER_03: back in a couple of weeks 2025 can't wait to
• 2:01:32
  Thank you for listening to this episode of the Mooks and the
• 2:01:35
  Gripes podcast.
• 2:01:36
  You can follow the Mooks and the Gripes and get show notes and
• 2:01:38
  book and film
• 2:01:39
  SPEAKER_03: reviews at mooksandgripes.com.
• 2:01:42
  SPEAKER_03: On Twitter, you can follow Trevor at mooks and Paul at BiblioPaul.
• 2:01:48
  SPEAKER_03: You can also get information about future shows on our Patreon.
• 2:01:52
  SPEAKER_03: If you'd like to donate to the show,
• 2:01:54
  SPEAKER_03: anything and everything,
• 2:01:55
  SPEAKER_03: even a dollar a month helps and is deeply appreciated,
• 2:01:58
  SPEAKER_03: you can become a Patreon at patreon.com slash mooks.
• 2:02:03
  SPEAKER_03: Until next time!