Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / Three kids under three and a half, pelvic floor PT, big babies, and breastfeeding

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Three kids under three and a half, pelvic floor PT, big babies, and breastfeeding · Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast

• Merelise: Before we dive into today's episode, I want to talk to you about something incredibly close to my heart, and that's maternal health. I've spoken a lot about my own experiences on this podcast, especially related to mental health, and how important it is to seek help, whether through therapy or medicine. But we all know that's easier said than done. That's where Mère comes in, a virtual maternal health care clinic serving women from preconception through menopause. Mère was founded by a mom, just like you or me. Who struggled to find the support she needed during her own maternal health journey and wanted to create a better experience for other women. Mère brings together therapists, women's health providers, and pelvic floor specialists who understand the unique challenges women face throughout motherhood. Mère believes women deserve care that looks at the whole picture, not just one symptom or one appointment at a time. Book a free 15-minute phone call today and learn more at Mère-ForEveryChapter.com. That's Mère M-E-R-E dash for every chapter dot com. and I'll introduce you. And then Like I'll kinda ask you some questions to kick it off, but then really it's like I it's just telling your birth stories and I'll ask questions like Katie: Okay. Merelise: as we go. I might like you know, button every once in a while. but yeah, it's really just like you were just telling your birth story to a girlfriend. Katie: Awesome. Great. Merelise: Okay, cool. All right. Let's do it. All right. hello and welcome to the Arrivals Podcast. I'm your host, Mary-Lee Swilson, and today I'm so excited to welcome my friend Katie Kennedy to the podcast. Katie: Hi, I'm so glad to be here. Merelise: It's so good to see you. It has been way, way, way too long. Katie: Truly, I mean over ten years probably. Merelise: Wild. Katie: So I know. It's life comes fast. Merelise: It does. Yeah. Speaking of fast, three kids. Katie: Yes. Three kids fast. Yeah. Three kids under three and a half. Merelise: What's the age range? Three and a half to three months? Wow. Katie: some yes. Mm-hmm. So yeah, we just kinda kept going. We're like, yeah, let's just keep keep rolling. Merelise: Yeah. well, I'm so excited. The it's funny, I when I message you about doing this, for those who don't know, Katie's husband, Trey, is a comedian and he does a lot of like funny videos, I feel like at your expense, which I'd love to hear your take on that. he does Katie: Yeah. Merelise: a lot of funny videos about like birth and like what, you know, wives are like in birth and knowing you, I feel like it's definitely not true. So I messaged you and I was like, This is your chance to set the record straight on what you're actually like when you give birth. Katie: Yeah. Yeah, he did a whole video of pretending to give birth and yeah, I mean, it wasn't completely accurate, so Merelise: Well I guess let's start with your first. So when you found out you were pregnant with your first, did you have any sort of birth plan? How was pregnancy for you? What was the the initial experience like? Katie: I thankfully have all had pretty, you know, relatively easy pregnancies, you know, comparatively. My first trimester, just I'm nauseous the whole time, like most people. but after that, honestly, not too I mean, I can't complain too much. definitely this third baby, my body was starting to, I think, wear down a little bit. It's Merelise: Yeah. Katie: like so I haven't I have been I got pregnant in June of 2022 with my first and I have not not been pregnant or breastfeeding since then. So Merelise: my gosh, Katie. That's a lot on your body. Katie: I think my body was like wearing down this last time. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: but yeah, the first one was good. It was, I mean, yeah, no complaints. And I knew, so my probably like my best like knowledge of birth was I'm one of five kids and my mom had all five of us with no epidurals. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: So that's kind of like in my mind I'm like, then I could probably do that. You know, like she did it five times, like, you know, but I was pretty open handed. I I knew births don't always go as planned and all that. And so, My due date came for my first, still wasn't here, kind of per usual your first. so I decided to get induced five days after my due date. I really didn't want to be induced because I had heard so many like stories of them just taking so long and but it was also like getting five days past and I'm like, okay, we need to do something. So I got a membrane sweep the day before. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: I was already dilated and that worked textbook. Twenty four hours later, Merelise: That's great. Katie: I was I woke up at like six AM that morning, slight contractions, kind of like, okay, I think things are happening. I don't know if it's my first. We'll see. And by about ten that morning, I was like on the floor, like breathing through them. So I Merelise: Yeah. Katie: was like, Okay, I think we need to leave. the funny part of that was because it wasn't in supposed I was supposed to be induced that day. So my parents and my cousin's parents came into town and they had planned to like do a breakfast that morning at our house. So I come downstairs and I just I never thought I would like kind of go into labor and have contractions in front of all those people. like I Yeah. Merelise: Yeah, like your in laws. Katie: I just feel like I was like sitting at the table like like really not Starting not do good. And I was like, I think Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I need to ex like I gotta get out of here. This is not where I want to be. I was just Merelise: Yes. I'm in no state to like host my in laws right now. Katie: like, and you know, they're great, and my parents are great. And I just kind of was like, I think I need to go to the hospital now, actually. I think this breakfast is over. and so we go and I ended up, I they didn't have a room ready. And so I asked if I could just walk outside instead. And so they let me, but the nurse turns out she w like I think she could tell they hadn't I think they checked me. They checked me and then they were like, okay, that's fine. We'll let you walk outside. But the nurse like stood at the window and like watched me because she was like so nervous. Merelise: what was she nervous about? Katie: I think that I just was like moving along pretty quickly and she like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: didn't want me to like go and labor outside or something. Like, you know, start to Merelise: Give birth on the sidewalk. Katie: Yeah. so I walked out there for a while and was starting to like, you know, having to like get down on the sidewalk to have contractions and I was like, it's time to go inside. and the room was ready and so I needed I didn't have to have any Pitocin or anything like that. and I don't remember honestly at what s stage of dilation I was when we finally got a room, but they asked like you know, do you want epidural and do you want us to break your water? And Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: I said, let's hold off on the water. And I'm not quite ready for an epidural. I just really I was still deciding and up until that point I was like, I'm I'm like handling this. And I Merelise: Yeah. Katie: had done pelvic floor PT prior and she was really awesome like coaching me up on birth. So that was a really Merelise: That's amazing. Katie: helpful you know, not just like positions. I don't know, I just think we talked through the whole thing. I like knew Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: what pushing felt like and I like wanted to go in really prepared. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: so I think that was like a big part of me feeling like confident in kind of where I was at. Merelise: That's amazing. I w I've had a public floor physical therapist on before. And I think one of the most interesting things I have learned from her, she's also my public floor physical therapist, but I think one of the most interesting interesting things she said on the podcast is that you can do a pelvic floor, you should do public floor therapy prior to birth, and they can teach you how to push. It's like, Katie: Yeah. Merelise: why wouldn't you? It's amazing. Katie: it it was I don't know in my mind I was like pushing like what does that even mean? And so I yeah, she helped me write. Merelise: Right. Like what muscles do I use? Katie: Like so that was super super helpful in like positions and how to handle pain and stuff like that. so Merelise: Yeah. Did you what were some of like the the coping mechanisms you had like had you worked through any for pain? Katie: I definitely had Trey doing some like hip compressions. and that was kind of mostly I'm, you know, I'm the type of person when I'm in pain I need to move. Like I couldn't Merelise: Yeah. Katie: just so I was just kind of like all over the place, like really antsy, walk in, moving, squatting. I was on the ball a little bit, but honestly I just didn't really want to sit. I kind of just needed to move. and they were starting to progress, so I said I was like, I don't know, I don't know. And it's funny because my husband was like, Why wouldn't you get an epidural? You're in so much pain. Like, just get an epidural. And I was like, Okay, that's fine. Let's, you know, I wasn't against it. I'm just like seeing how it goes. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: So we asked for it. And it was really busy. Remember, there's no rooms. So it was over an hour later. So I end up going through all of labor without one. Merelise: huh. Katie: and Truly they come in to s say like, okay, we're ready. I for sure had like gone through transition, all that. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: And I was like, Can I even still get one? I mean, and by that point I just was really tired. Like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: at this point it was pro you know, sometime in the night. So started contraction started at six AM, went to the hospital around eleven. This is maybe like eight PM. So I'm just kind of tired. And I was like, I think I need one just because I'm I have heard pushing your first can take a while and I just don't know if I have the like energy right now. So I agreed to it. So essentially they give me the epidural, they check me, I'm a 10. So I did. I just went through all of labor with no epidural and then I now have one for the pushing. Merelise: Ha ha Katie: Which was great because my son was nine pounds, five ounces. Merelise: Wow. Katie: So for your first two, like I'm I'm glad that I had that epidural to, you Merelise: Yeah. Katie: know, help with all that. and he was healthy and pushing definitely took like forty-five minutes. but yeah, it was, you know, a overall like a great experience. I, you know, I'm actually kind of glad the epidural took that long. Like I kind Merelise: Yeah. Katie: of wanted to know what that felt like. and yeah, I think it was all just like perfect timing, like hindsight. Yeah. Merelise: That's so funny. Yeah. That's so funny. Cause I do feel like you went through the hardest part. And now I've never birthed a nine pound baby. So I I Katie: Mm-hmm. Merelise: can't speak to that. But for me at least, I I do feel like laboring that pain is way harder for me than actually like pushing the baby out. But again, I've never had a nine pounder. But yeah, that's cool. Did you feel like Katie: Yeah. Yeah. So that was Merelise: you could feel Anything with the pushing or were you pretty numb? Katie: I actually could. I I actually don't think maybe it had like kicked in enough. Like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I felt like I was moving around by myself, on my knees, I could feel when I needed to push. Merelise: that's awesome. Katie: So either, you know, it was just the right, you know, just the right epidural or it like hadn't kicked in. I'm not really sure, but it like it was ideal 'cause I wanted to be able to move around. I delivered on my I delivered all three of my kids on my side. Merelise: Okay. Katie: which is something I talked about my pel with like my pelvic floor P T. So so yeah, I was able to do that and it worked out. Merelise: And then did you have any tears? Katie: I had like a second degree but like superficial. So it wasn't anything deep and it it healed pretty quickly. I feel like that was you know, it's funny, I think I went into b I went into birth really scared of tearing. I feel like I'd heard Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: so many horrible stories and especially I think my friends who had like been induced, I had heard really bad stories about really bad tears and i and so It's funny in hindsight before my first I think I talked to my mom a lot about it. Like I just I don't wanna tear her, I don't wanna tear her. And I just feel like she kept being like, Okay, like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: and it is funny 'cause in hindsight from from my experience, you know, everyone's as different. That was like the least of my concern af a like after. But Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Katie: that's by no means like everyone's experience. so Merelise: For sure. What was what was the hardest part about recovering for you? Katie: honestly my like switching over to kind of more of the like breastfeeding stuff. Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Katie: my son, he was so big and I like as a first time mom, you know, you don't I thought I was prepared for breastfeeding, but I r really wasn't. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: And I thought he was latching and getting milk and turns out he like really wasn't. And we ended up back in the hospital three days later, because his weight dropped so much. And so I feel like I was so like, you know, as all moms do, like you put yourself last. And so I feel like my own recovery, I just we like didn't even have a private bathroom in the hospital. So I was like in the public bathroom doing all my like stuff down there. And like Merelise: my god. Katie: it was just like I like didn't shower. It was there so there's no shower. It was just honestly pretty gross. but we were only there for Merelise: Yeah. my gosh. Katie: like a little over twenty four hours. So like all in all it was fine. But Merelise: Yeah. Katie: we like had my parents bring an air mattress. Like I slept on the air mattress on the floor of his hospital room and was like, yeah. So it was a it was just kind of a weird first week, I feel like. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: thankfully he was fine. He just really needed some more and that was that's actually knowledge that I really wish I would have like someone would have told me sooner of like if you're not really sure if they're getting milk, then just give a bottle. Like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I just think we could have I really wish someone from a medical team would have told me that because I could have avoided taking my three day old to the hospital, you know? Merelise: Right, right. Katie: so I guess that's my like biggest probably like thing that I try to tell new moms. I'm just like, Merelise: Yeah. Katie: give it's not it's not gonna in my experience it's not gonna ruin their like breastfeeding journey. And there's peace of mind that they're like getting it if you if you are unsure. And so Merelise: Yeah. Katie: So I was kind of yeah. Merelise: I tend to agree. Katie: I it's just I'm so now I'm like a nervous mom and those first like my other ones, I just immediately was like shoving the milk down I'm like, you're gonna gain and we're not we're Merelise: Yeah. Katie: not gonna lose Merelise: I know. It's I mean it sounds like you obviously had eventually successful breastfeeding journal journeys if you were breastfeeding or pregnant for like, you know, the the last several Katie: Yeah. Merelise: years. and I I too I breastfed both of mine for like almost a year, a little bit less than, and Katie: Okay. Merelise: we combo fed though. Like otherwise I couldn't Katie: Yeah. Merelise: have done it. Like there was no way. You know, I I I guess exclusively breastfed and did some pumping as long as I could, but then when I started to worry about supply I introduced formula and in hindsight, of course, the first one's always, you know, hardest. I wish I Katie: Yeah. Merelise: had done it sooner. Like I held out for so long thinking like it had to be either or. And the reality Katie: Right. Merelise: is like the introducing formula helped me breastfeed longer. Otherwise I would have just stopped entirely because I Katie: Yeah. Yeah. Merelise: didn't have enough supply to sustain him. Katie: No, I fully support that and like especially those first few before your milk comes in, like Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: two of the three of my kids got formula in those first like couple Merelise: Yeah. Katie: days when you're like, they're crying so much because I know they're hungry and I just don't it's just not there. And everyone kinda says, like, you know, your body will just do what it needs to and it's like, Well, if they're hungry, you know, like I you know, my third kid I ended up using like donor breast milk in that like little day or two gap. Merelise: Cool. Yeah. Katie: and I actually had one bag frozen from my they've come so quick, I like still had some good from my last kid that I brought out. Merelise: That's amazing. Katie: but but yeah, that's Merelise: So have have you breastfed when you've been pregnant? Katie: Only for about a month or so. Merelise: Okay. Katie: I'm usually like and that's usually at that point, it's like one, maybe two times a day. So it's not Merelise: Yeah. Katie: they're probably not even having that much, it's more for comfort. Merelise: Yeah. Did you feel like your supply changed when you got pregnant? Katie: I don't but but I also like I said I don't think that they were drinking I don't think they were eating that much anyways at that point. So I don't know if it really mattered as much. Merelise: I always think that's so cool when I hear about women who like just continuously breastfeed like through pregnancy, like everything. It's yeah. Yeah. Katie: You're hungry. That's I'm like hungry and thirsty all the time. Merelise: Yeah. Okay, so that was number one. So your your son. And then Katie: Mm. Merelise: how old was he when you got pregnant again? Katie: He was eleven months old. Merelise: Okay. Katie: and so we which is kind of what we were, you know, wanting. And Merelise: I was gonna say, was that the plan? Katie: it was. and so got pregnant with my second. It's a little girl. her name is Eva. And that pregnancy was honestly pretty similar to my first. The like worst part was I Have never had a UTI in my life and I had a UTI my entire pregnancy. It was Merelise: my God, that is a special kind of torture. Katie: it was so bizarre. Like truly had never ever had one. And I actually didn't really, thankfully, the main symptom I had was just fatigue. Like I it wasn't I was in my first trimester and I was kind of like, man, I am Like there has to be something wrong with me. Like I cannot even get off the couch. Like I know I Merelise: Yeah. Katie: have a one year old and I'm pregnant and like my husband is traveling, but like something is not right. And Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I went in and it was just a UTI and Merelise: Crazy. Katie: got on meds and it just I mean, it was like clockwork. I'd do the meds, go back, pee again. Sometimes it was like a different kind. It was it was very bizarre. And I think it was clearly just pregnancy hormone related 'cause I've Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I haven't had one since Merelise: And remind me, is your third a boy or a girl? Katie: a boy. Merelise: Do you think it was something about like the girl hormones? That's so crazy. Katie: the girl, I think it was, which is really bizarre. Merelise: Did did your doctor have like was he like yeah this happens sometimes in pregnancy? Katie: Yes. They and that's what I was I was like, I was like, literally, what like I will do? Like, do I need to drink a gallon of cranberry juice every day? Like what do I need to do? This is crazy. And Merelise: Yeah. Katie: they're just like, I just think it's pregnant like it's just pregnancy related. It's just the hormones. Merelise: It's brutal. Katie: so that wasn't ideal. I was on an antibiotic for like truly like eight months. Merelise: Wow. Katie: which thankfully I haven't seen I was pretty good about taking a probiotic also. So I don't think it's like hurt me too bad, but yeah, that was a weird, weird deal with that pregnancy. Merelise: Yeah, that's no good. Katie: yeah. But I went in knowing how big my first baby was, Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I was like, well, let's not wait till after the due date. Let's maybe Merelise: Mm. Katie: avoid the like giant baby. Merelise: Did you other than not maybe not waiting until you were past you, did you want to do anything differently with your birth? I mean, it sounds like it went pretty well. Katie: I was I mean not really. I felt like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I was still kind of again like epidural we'll just see. Like I was very much Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: now I kinda knew what to expect. There was like probably a little more fear just 'cause like for the year first I think there's a little bit of ignorance is bliss. but for the most part I was like I was kind of like I'd like to do the same thing. Like I'd like to Merelise: Yeah. Katie: try to I think it helped my labor progress quicker being able to walk around. And Merelise: Definitely. Katie: I don't think that the hospital usually saw people walking around like I did because Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I felt like people were starting to like, well, you still going. Like try to get your steps in. And I'm like, I can't just sit in that tiny room. I just like Merelise: No. Katie: would go crazy. so I was kind of just planning that, but we ended up with her The membrane sweeps, I think I had two and they just like weren't doing the trick. and so I ended up getting induced two days before her due date. or it was I guess it was three days before her due date. And I once again I pretty much the same thing. I went through all of labor, got towards the very end, and was like, Okay, yeah, I'll I'll do an epidural. but it was really the same place. Like I was about to push pretty much. and Merelise: Wow. Did they induce you a person? Katie: they did. So I did have to have Pitocin. it I was already having contractions when I went in. So my body it was kind of like already, it was like starting and going and the Pitocin kind of just like once I got it, it just kind of like kicked it in. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: so thankfully it was a pretty I had her at like six thirty seven PM that day. So I checked in at seven AM. I had to do four hours of antibiotics for GBS. Merelise: Grippy strap. Katie: so, you know, they didn't really start any pitocin until I can't even do math right now, eleven. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: so it was a relatively fast induction. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: And it's funny when I so she was eight pounds five ounces, so a pound lighter than my first. And Merelise: Okay. And a week earlier? Katie: in like, yes, in a week earlier. Merelise: Okay. Katie: And I as soon as I pushed her out, literally the first words out of my mouth, which is so funny. Women are just so funny. I just said, I could do that again. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: Because it was like Merelise: What is it about that moment? It is. Katie: it 'cause it was like so much easier than pushing out my son. Like it was just like, she's out like and Merelise: Yeah, it's perspective. Katie: I was like, That's all? Like, okay, let's let's do this again. which is funny. Merelise: Yeah. Run it back. Katie: My husband was like, I just watched what you went through. This is so weird that that's like the first thing you said. I'm like, I don't know, it's some Merelise: Ha ha. Katie: clearly like we're just women are just I don't know, there's something in our brain. Merelise: I know. There's something in those like immediate post birth hormones. It's just crazy. Literally, you're like, I could do this again and again. It's wild. Katie: It is. I mean, clearly God designed us that way so that humanity would like stay alive. Because I mean, otherwise Merelise: Yeah, it has to be. Katie: we'd do that and we'd be like, I don't r you know, that was horrible or whatever. Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Katie: so that was soothing recovery was much better, you know, mostly just 'cause I wasn't dealing with all this breastfeeding things that I did with my son. I just immediately introduced bottles and was trying to best feed kind of just doing a Merelise: Yeah. Katie: combo until my milk came in and then we were we were set. So yeah, she was probably the she was probably the easiest like labor and delivery altogether. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Katie: because my we decided we wanted to do that same age gap again. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: which is great. We I think we at the time we like didn't really know what we were signing up for completely. We're like, yeah, Merelise: I'm impressed. Katie: let's just keep rolling. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: so I actually got pregnant when she was thirteen months. So she was just a little over a year. And Merelise: Okay. Okay. Katie: yeah, this pastime which is pretty fresh, I was Merelise: Yeah. Katie: like I mentioned earlier, I think my body was just kind of wearing down. I just had a lot of like hip pain and like SI joint, all like more body issues really. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: thankfully I have an awesome pelvic floor PT that has helped me through all of mine and she really got me set. She I was going pretty frequently to like get rid of all that pain. There was one night Merelise: Yeah. Katie: my tray was traveling and I had, you know, my one year old and two year old at home. And I something, I don't know, something happened and I like could barely walk. And I was like trying to get them to bed. I almost like called a friend over, but I was like, if Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I can just get them in bed, like if I can just get them in in their cribs trapped, then I'll be okay. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I even have a friend who's at PT and I texted her and she was like, Do you want me to come over with with my dry needles? And I was like, Merelise: Yeah. Katie: Give me like thirty minutes, let me see what I can like do And I ended up kind of being able to like work it out enough to where like I wasn't like in excruciating pain and I went to my PT like the next day. Merelise: Where was your pain? Was it like hip pain? Katie: kind of like my like like SI joint like sacrum area Merelise: yeah. Katie: mine had just kind of like f flared out like really far so it was Merelise: Mm. Katie: like just kind of pulling on things weird and I'm I'm absolutely sure that it's because I was holding so many other kit you know, you kind of like tilt and hold and like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: it just kinda got things all like out of place down there Merelise: Out of back. Katie: and yeah. but other than that it was a similar like bad first trimester and then just kind of getting towards the end. I think the end of this last one I was really my other kids, I was I never was like, Give this baby out and this last one I was like, I really am struggling through this. Merelise: Yeah. You put your body through a lot in three like three years. Like pregnancy is the sacrifice, breastfeeding is the sacrifice, like on your body. And so yeah, back to back three times. Katie: I think it just yeah, I think I was just tired. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: and so we we didn't know the gender. So we knew the gender for the other two, we didn't know the gender for this one, which was kind of playing a Merelise: You had one of each. Katie: part. Yeah, that's what I was like, I have both. Honestly, I told my husband it was a way for us to save money because I wouldn't be like buying a bunch of other clothes that we don't need. Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Katie: which is true, it really did help control myself a little bit with baby clothes. Merelise: I I the same way. I did surprises for both of mine and it I mean truly helps. Katie: I really 'cause you're like, this is silly. I don't need to keep I did buy a few things of both gender and then you're finally like, This is ridiculous. Like, I gotta stop. Merelise: Right. And it's just not that like you're not as tempted to buy a bunch of like gray and white outfits as you would be to buying like cute bow like things with bows or like blue or you know, it's just not the same. So yeah. Katie: Yes, I agree. So it was kind of good on that perspective. But I think I did because of the size difference of my other two and everything, Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I was just kind of like, that would be good to know and it ended up being a boy and he like was measuring similar to my daughter, like at the thirty sixth week. So I was like, Okay if I can just happen before if I can have the baby before the due date, I think I can keep it under nine pounds and like be in a better place. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: And so we planned I planned another induction, but kind of like with my others. It's like I plan an induction, but then I plan to get at least one, if not two sweeps before the induction. And I ended up getting a sweep three three days before the due date again. and it works within hours. I am so I go that morning with my husband to the doctor, do the sweep, we go get coffee, my mom has my other kids and I'm sitting on my porch watching my other kids playing, like eating cherries. This is like June. And Merelise: Uh-huh. Katie: I I'm like, okay, I think some contractions are coming. And I start on my phone and I start like tying them. And I just kinda looked over and said, So the app says we need to go to the hospital. I think we literally need to go now. Merelise: Especially 'cause your other labors were pretty quick. Like, yeah. Katie: Right. And I was like, this could be quicker. It's a third. and I didn't want my kids to like see me start to like h go into labor and like have contractions. So Merelise: Yeah. Like you don't want them to see you in pain. Katie: yeah. and just like scare them that I was leaving in pain or something was wrong with me. and so I told my parents, I said, Take the kids to the pool, like leave right now Merelise: Yeah. Katie: And so they did and I had everything pretty much packed up. But you know, we kind of did some last minute I it's funny, I had this I like wanted a specific bra for labor. I don't know if anyone else it's like I've done this two other times. Merelise: Uhhuh. I was the same way. Yeah. Katie: It's like you want it to be comfortable, be able to breastfeed like all the things, like not too expensive 'cause it Yeah. It might be trash though. Like it's kind of this y sweet spot and I like had it in the Merelise: Right. Maybe like a little pretty, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Katie: dryer and I was like, it just needs a little longer in the dryer. Let's just wait. Merelise: Ha ha Katie: And my husband was like, This is absurd. Just take you it's you need to go to the hospital. I was like, I'm really fine, like, let's just give it like ten more minutes. He was like, No. And he like pulls it out and has it like in the car, like at the vent, like drying it. Like, this is Merelise: Ha ha ha Katie: ridiculous, but you know, it whatever. In that moment it w seemed important to me. and Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. I had a pair of shorts I really wanted to wear to the hospital for my second birth. Like they were comfy, they're kinda like sweatpant shorts and I was like, these will be great to labor in. I had this whole plan and then my water broke and I don't know what I was thinking. I I put them on anyways. And then within like ten minutes of me wearing the shorts, they were completely disgusting and soaked and I had to take them off and leave them at home and put something else on. Katie: Yeah. Merelise: I don't know what I was thinking. But yes, I I totally understand like having a like an idea of like how you want something to feel or what you want to wear and yeah. Katie: Yeah, you kinda like play it on your head so much. I think especially Merelise: Mm. Katie: going into like your consecutive ones, 'cause you kinda know how Merelise: Yeah. Katie: it plays out. You kinda know how you wanna feel and Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: yeah, that was kind of yeah, so we get there and I'm like dilated to a four, like consistent contractions and they're c kind of in triage. They're like, Well, we're just gonna wait an hour and see if anything happens. If not, we like might send you home. And I'm like Send me home. I'm already at four. Like I'm Merelise: Right. Katie: and I could tell the lady was like saying her script, but she was like, You're gonna stay kind of thing. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Right. Katie: so I walked for like almost that whole hour, just circles around. I was like, let's let's move it along. And I progressed to a five. So they're like, let's check you in, get going. And so this one was even faster because I think I think we checked in around man, it's really recent. But I honestly barely remember. I think it was like around three or four. and Merelise: I know. Well, there, baby. Mm-hmm. Katie: we get into the room, you know, probably an hour later. And I'm, you know, having it's picking up. I know what to expect, but I'm like handling it a lot better. Like I kind of am like working through it. And we I hadn't even like my husband knew that my other births, I was like, epidural epidural or not, like we'll see. But I did the same thing the other two. He was expecting the same thing. And the nurses are kind of like, okay, like I feel like if you want one, like now would be a good time. Like we're you know. And I was like, just wait, just wait. And I kind of just I knew how my other ones went and I said, Okay, if they break my water, usually once my water's broken, it is maximum an hour. It was like thirty, forty five minutes with my other ones. So I'm in mind I'm like, I'm about to go through transition. I know what to do. That's like the worst part of it. And then in my head I'm like, it's the same amount of time as my other one. I think this baby will be around eight five. I pushed her out so easy. Like, I can do this. And so I just I finally I was like, No epidural, we're not doing one. And my husband was like, What? I didn't even know you were this was the plan. And was like, it is now. I just like, you know, I was like weighing all the things. And that's kind of Merelise: Surprise. Yeah. Yeah. Katie: how he wanted to go into it of just like These are the this is what's going on. And so it kind of went as expected. I had them break my water. It was I was like a little scared of them to do it just because I knew once that happened, it was gonna like hurt way worse. Merelise: Yeah, yeah. 'Cause you lose that cushion. Katie: yeah. So I kind of like waited, waited and finally said, okay, and it truly was. Yeah, maybe 45 minutes after my water's broken that he was here. but I hindsight, I don't know. He it turns out he was nine pounds six ounces. And Merelise: my god, your biggest one. Katie: I was not expecting that, right? I was like, surely under nine pounds. It's before Merelise: Yeah. Katie: the due date, everything. It you know, and so it was he was pretty hard to push out. I he was Merelise: Yeah. Katie: like I mean, there was definitely a moment where I was like, my like, I am truly giving every ounce in me to Merelise: Wow. Katie: get him out of here. And I kind of looking back, I feel like the gender was like I kind of thought he was a boy the whole time, that like in that like instinct. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: And so I think that I just I was so glad to get the baby out of me. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: that the gender was just so not like important to me at the moment. Like that whole like surprise thing. I was just kind Merelise: Really? Yeah. Katie: of like, it's a boy, okay, it's out. Like I'm like, I don't care honestly Merelise: Yeah, I'm done. Katie: what gender it was, it's out of me. I was yelling at my doctor during while I was trying to push. Just I was yelling, pull the baby out of me. I don't care, just pull it out. And she has my doctor has delivered all three of my babies, which is like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I feel like pretty unusual. She Merelise: Yeah, definitely. Katie: is amazing and her name is Dr. Ketcherside in Kansas City. She's she went to dinner. She was not on call that night. She went to she came into my room, so she I dinner plans with my husband, but if you haven't had the baby, I'm gonna come back. And I was like, I said, I said, You're not I know you're not on call, like you don't need to come back. Like It's, you Merelise: Yeah. Katie: know, there's another doctor here, obviously. And truly I'm about to, I'm about to start pushing. And she walks in with like high heels, like a full like date night outfit on and like Merelise: my god. Katie: throws some like scrubs on and like delivers my baby. Merelise: That's legendary. That's amazing. Katie: She it was amazing. I've she is awesome. so that was kind of like a funny, a little d like small distraction, like like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: all that pain and like about to push and be like, my gosh, she's in like a full, like high heel, nice outfit and she's about to Merelise: We're like, you look great, girl. Katie: yeah, like about to deliver my child in here. and so yeah, that was I mean, it was harder, I think, than I expected to do Merelise: Yeah. Katie: it without the epidural, like the pushing part. especially for my third, like I just thought I'm gonna push this baby out immediately. And Merelise: Yeah, yeah. Katie: it just like it was still I guess relatively fast, all things considered, but it was way, way harder than I anticipated. Mm-hmm. Merelise: And you said you push on your side again? Yeah. Katie: and I actually tore the least of all my it was Merelise: Amazing. Katie: like my biggest baby, but tore the least. Sure ha Merelise: That's awesome. Katie: being my third is part of it. Merelise: Still probably public floor therapy though helped a lot as well. Katie: It I really, really believe in that. but yeah, that I think I what they don't tell you about not getting an epidural is all the pain after. I think I y Merelise: really? Katie: you're like so focused on the labor and delivery part. But you know, like the so the stitches, like I had to still have have a few stitches and like all the what is them trying to the fundle like pushes or whatever and all that, yeah. Merelise: The fundle massages, yeah. Katie: Just all that, like you kind of I kind of forgot that I had an epidural for all of that last time. And so you're Merelise: Mm, yeah. Katie: kind of just like checked out and like focused on your baby and that I was like, this is continuing to just be like painful for the next several hours Merelise: Yeah. Katie: And I feel like I just didn't you know, didn't think about that, but it was obviously less than labor, Merelise: That's funny. Katie: but Merelise: That's so funny. I so I didn't have an epidural with either of mine. And I don't remember I remember as soon as the baby being out, like not feeling any pain, just being so relieved that Katie: Okay. Merelise: the babies were here and that labor was over. And I had to I had to get one little stitch with my second. Maybe that was I don't know. I just don't remember. I remember the pain being like over. Over Katie: You just don't remember. Yeah. Merelise: once the baby was out. But it's interesting to hear your perspective having done it both ways. Katie: Yeah. again, yeah, nothing compared, but I think I just was used to being completely checked out from whatever whatever else was happening. Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Katie: so yeah, he was my biggest baby and I Merelise: That's amazing. Katie: I'm I don't I mean, it's funny people are always like, Well, you've now done it like both ways. What Merelise: Yeah. Katie: and I just I truly think it depends on the day. I really Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: like you know, the day before if I would have gone into labor, both my toddlers had been up all night. I like barely slept. Like Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: I might have chosen a pedural because I just was so tired. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: And I like unisommed the night before Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: and got a good night's sleep. And I think that it just for me I just it depends on the day and how things are playing Merelise: Yeah. Katie: out. And so yeah. Merelise: Yeah. What's what's Trey like when you're in labor? Is he funny or does he get like serious? Katie: he's serious, just trying to like help. He definitely tries to be funny a few times, but I like am like absolutely not. We're not doing this right now. Merelise: No, we're not doing that right now. Katie: At one point with my t last one, because I just was try you know, trying to be so like zoned in with the pushing Merelise: Yeah. Katie: and stuff. I just remember he was like trying to be so sweet and encouraging and I literally said, get out of my face. Like I which is so Yeah, yeah. I was Merelise: So some of the videos he does are a little accurate. Katie: like You are trying to be so helpful right now, but is I just can't right now. Yeah, Merelise: It's not the vibe I need or want. Katie: yeah. Merelise: feel like you don't know what you're gonna want until you're in the moment, you know? Like and and it's funny, like Katie: Yeah. Merelise: I I do feel like, you know, they talk about like women, you know, how back in the day and like how animals do this, like when it's time to give birth, they like go off in like a quiet place like by themselves. And I'm like, I kinda get that, you know, it's like, yeah. Katie: Yeah, like I don't want I like personally like having kind of like strangers there was better to me than having like people I knew. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: People feel totally, you know, everyone Merelise: Yeah. Katie: feels differently about that. But I'm like kind of glad I'm not gonna see these people again. They just watched me do something like so primal, what felt like Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Katie: like Merelise: I know. It's it is extremely primal. It is. It's wild. Like did you have any pictures or videos from yours? Katie: I don't I think I just have from like right after. I don't Merelise: Yeah. Katie: have any from like during. I honestly didn't even like every single kid I didn't even think about that, which is Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I don't know why 'cause I love seeing some of those that peop other people have. Merelise: Same. Yeah, I I didn't I didn't take any videos during mine and I wish I like had just because I think now especially now that I like I'm done I'm like I wish I could like relive it you know in a weird Katie: Mm. Merelise: way. I wish I had some pictures and video or more videos from like my birth. because I feel like you just you do turn into this like different person, you know? And I'm like curious I'd be curious to go back and see what I was like, because I can't really remember it, you know? Like I feel Katie: Right. Yeah. Merelise: like you just like kinda like go to this like diff like distant place. Katie: You're like I said it's it's kind of like this like you're it's like you're blacked out from everything Merelise: Yeah. Katie: else going on. Like you're just like in your I don't know, like I think I even had my eyes closed for like a lot of them, just kind of like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: internally like just going through what I needed to do. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: did you going into both of your births, you like knew you wanted to do epi no epidural? Okay. Merelise: Yeah, that was the plan. Yeah, for both of mine. I I've talked about this a little bit on the podcast before, but I I think it was like twofold. So I I mentioned before that like when I got was when I was pregnant with my first, I got super interested in birth. And part of that was because I'd had a few friends who'd had like traumatic births. And partially it was several of them what happened was they had planned on getting an epidural. And went in and either the epidural didn't take or they didn't have time. And they were like really unprepared for an unmedicated birth and everything it that it would entail. And it was really traumatic for some of them. And so in my Katie: Yeah. Merelise: head, I was like, well, what if I prepare either way? And then I can just decide when I want to. Katie: Mm. Merelise: And so that was my initial thinking. And then when I started reading about it, I got like really obsessed with the benefits of having like a lower intervention birth and I'm just like really competitive. And so I was like, like not with other people, but I was like, I want to do this like for myself. Katie: Right. With yeah. Merelise: You know, I just was like super into it. And it was, I think just it's weird because I'm not like a marathon runner or anything like that. Like I'm not normally the kind of like push myself to my like physical limits type of person. But something about it just really appealed to me and I loved it. I love giving birth. I mean it was hard and crazy but Katie: Yeah. Merelise: I loved it. Katie: Yeah, that's amazing. That's Merelise: Yeah. Katie: I do think that I heard those stories too of just like, yeah, you didn't have time or whatever it was and it's kind of nice to like mentally know or yeah, be prepared either way. Merelise: Yeah. I like talk a lot about like positive birth. And I think at the end of the day, like when it comes down to positive birth, it's not necessarily like the way that you gave birth that matters. Epidural, C section, no epidural, whatever it is. It's I think to me it's about like how you felt during that experience. And so so much of that is just mental and emotional. And I feel like you can there's only so much you can do to control like how you end up giving birth, but like Katie: Mm. Merelise: You can do a lot to prepare your headspace for it. And Katie: Yeah. Merelise: so that's that's kind of like how I approached it. Katie: No, I think that's great. I think going in with like some confidence of like like you're saying, like some knowledge and things like that, so that you I mean, I do think that helped me a ton. Just like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: having knowledge of what was gonna happen, what to expect and like being able to Yeah, also just there are I'm sure, you know, you started this 'cause there are so many bad stories out there that Merelise: Yeah. Katie: people are like talking negatively or you know, whatever, but it's like such a miracle and yeah, I do think if you kind of shift the like lens on it a little bit, it is makes a big difference. Merelise: Yeah, I read this book when I was pregnant and I've had the author on the podcast called The Positive Birth Book, and I tell everyone, I recommend it to everyone. It's it's just an incredible book. It totally like reframed my entire approach to birth. I think it should be required reading. It's great. Katie: Yeah. did you go to pelvic floor PT before or just okay. Merelise: I didn't go to it before. That and I wish I had. I pushed for a long time with my first. I pushed for Katie: Okay. Merelise: a long time, unmedicated. and I f for all the knowledge I had and like all the things I'd read, I had not heard about going to public floor PT prior to giving birth. So I went after for both of mine. But yeah, that's something I wish I'd had done. Katie: Yeah. I think I mean it sounds like you were super prepared, like, you know, as much as you could be knowledge wise and everything. So I think that was like Merelise: Yeah. Katie: probably my biggest benefit of going was just kinda getting that Merelise: Yeah. Katie: knowledge from her. But yes, highly recommend. Also just like all those aches and pains, like they Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: can mine help fix me right up. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: miscupping and all of that just kind of keeps your body, I don't know, mm ready and like, you know, feeling good for doing Merelise: Yeah. Katie: something that's like gonna push you to like a really, you know, probably one of the like the most pain you're ever gonna feel, you know. It's so Merelise: Right. Katie: you it kind of like I don't know, treating it more like an athletic thing. I kinda thought that whole thing Merelise: Yeah. Katie: the whole time of like this feels really athletic and like really yeah, like I wanna be strong. Like I wanna be like my body feeling as best I can and like all of those things. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: and yeah, I think that helps. Merelise: I totally agree. it it's been it's interesting you bring up the athletic part because I I've been thinking about it more and more in those terms lately. And it's funny I was just reading a book by the same author, as a positive birth book, but she talked about how like when women talk about like positive like affirmations and thinking and labor and birth, a lot of times people like roll their eyes or like call it woo-woo. But like if an athlete to talks about like, you know, visualizations and positive like, you know, believing they're gonna win the race and stuff. Like everyone's like, that's amazing. Like, you know, they they believed in themselves. and so yeah, I think there is like so much in birth that is athletic and that like we can apply those same, I don't know, things that like major athletes do. And another thing that blows my mind is that you know, anyone who's run a marathon, like they prepare physically ahead of time. And they afterwards there's always you know, some sort of treatment that goes along with the recovery, right? Like whether it's a massage, physical therapy, dry needling, whatever it is, and like so little Katie: Mm. Merelise: of that is recommended post birth, which is crazy because Katie: Truly. Merelise: I'm like, we just went through this massive physical event and you're just supposed to go home and breastfeed. Yeah. Katie: Just like go home and keep. Yeah. And like, I feel like even too, I'm sure like after having your fur your f second, you like come home and you're like, yeah, I'm like still a mom with other little kids that like Merelise: I know. Katie: you're like kind of can't skip a beat. Like obviously I had Merelise: Yeah. Katie: so much help and I'm so thankful for that. But like even with the help, like you're still mom and you're still Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: gonna like probably push yourself too far to like be with your other kids and like do what they want or need or whatever. And I feel like that's like I don't think there's any like way to avoid that. Like I would still do it again, right? But it definitely like makes recovery take longer and make your body like I feel like I'm just now I'm three months postpartum. And I just I've been to PT two times, but I like realistically just this week started like actually like working on my like breathing and core and stuff 'cause I'm just like it was just like kinda too like head underwater, just like let's get through this. because that's just, you know, life moves on and gotta get the get the kids to preschool and gotta you know, just Merelise: Yeah. Katie: like life keeps going and I Merelise: I know. Katie: didn't really like build in that recovery time as well in as well, which I would definitely recommend for any other moms like with multiples of just like making sure you're prioritizing that because ultimately that's one what's gonna like get you back to full strength and Merelise: Capacity. Katie: capacity and yeah, I feel like I've been on the playground with my kids and I'm like, yeah, I'll like do this thing with them or whatever and I'm like, my like, why can't I do that? Like this is kind of embarrassing. Yeah. Merelise: Maybe I shouldn't have tried that. I remember I after my second was born, later that week I went to go pick my son up from daycare. And the teachers were like, Why are you here? You like just gave birth. And I was like, Well, I really wanted to be here. I wanted to try to make things normal for my first son and like everything. And like you said, like we're so bad about like is when you have other children, especially. like giving time for our bodies to heal. And I remember just being so concerned about like making sure my firstborn still felt like loved and Katie: Yes. Merelise: prioritized and I know, yeah. Katie: It is I think this, you know, yeah, I feel like I was like still trying to like, you know, either put him to bed or get him up or, you Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: know, whatever. And I feel like this time I really kind of just like let that like was like I need to let that go. Like I Merelise: Yeah. Katie: will I will be a better mom the rest of the day if like my husband gets them up and I sleep for that one extra hour before he needs to work and like, Merelise: Yeah. Katie: you know, can like function better and be more patient Merelise: Yeah. Katie: and like all those things. but it's still hard. I feel like I really felt sad that I like didn't get them out of bed for, you know, a month or whatever it was. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: But honestly they won't remember. So that's I keep Merelise: I know, that's the thing. It's so true. Katie: my mom keeps telling me that too. She's Do you remember me doing any of these things? You were at number two of five. I said, I don't remember any of this. I said, Okay, you there you go. Merelise: Yeah, exactly. well I always like to wrap up the podcast by asking my guests to describe birth in three words. Just whatever comes to mind. Like first thing. Katie: I'd probably say athletic, like as an overall description. Merelise: Yeah, I love that. No one said that one. Katie: what's a good word for it? sorry, my brain is not fully like fully working. Merelise: You're three months first part of Katie: being kind of like resilient. I guess is it the word I'm looking for? Just Merelise: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Katie: like really yeah, being positive and like mentally resilient of like thinking Merelise: Mm-hmm. Katie: through it and just continuously like pushing yourself and being positive about it the whole time. Merelise: Yeah. Katie: and I guess I mean surprising. 'Cause you Merelise: Yeah. Katie: really never know what you're gonna get or Merelise: Yeah. Katie: like how it's gonna really play out as much as you want to control it. Merelise: That's so true. So true. well Katie, thank you so much for doing this. It was so good to see you Katie: Yeah. Merelise: and so fun to hear your birth stories and hear about your little kiddos and yeah, it's amazing. Katie: Yeah. Thanks for asking me and letting me ramble on about all the all the birth things. Merelise: Anytime. That's literally why I have this podcast. It's my favorite thing to do. Katie: It's awesome. I was listening to some of your other episodes and yeah, it is so cool. You're you kinda get like wrapped into it. You're like, Okay, well Merelise: Yeah. Katie: well what then what next? Like what's Merelise: I know, I know. It's so it I love it. I mean, it's the best. The I mean, part of the other idea I have for the podcast or the like the reason it came up is I was at book club with some girlfriends and someone had just had a baby and everyone was like, Tell us the birth story and like you just sit there with like rapt attention, like listening and no matter how many Katie: Yeah. Merelise: you've heard, it's like always something new and yeah, it's the best. Katie: Yeah, 'cause it's just like you really can't control it and you never know and it is cool to hear just like I feel like for me like just there's God in every one of them and just like how like protection or just just like being present and all of that like plays a role too. Merelise: Yes, I definitely agree. well thank you. Katie: yeah, thanks for having me and I can't wait to hear episodes and hear everybody else's birth stories and there there might be another one in for me. We we'll s we're still deciding. We'll see. We'll see. T V D where Merelise: I was I w okay, I wasn't gonna ask and be presumptuous but since you brought it up. That's okay, all right. So maybe part two. Part two, number four. Katie: I decided we probably shouldn't decide when we have three month old. wait a little longer. Merelise: That's that's valid. Give a little time. Katie: Yeah, so we'll see. But thanks again and I love how positive you're making it. It's awesome. Merelise: Thank you. Thank you for being part of it. Katie: Mm. Merelise: All right. Well, you've been listening to the Arrivals podcast. Until next time. Yay. Thank you so much for doing this. I'll stop recording real quick. Katie: No, you're good.