Latest / I Don't Know You / How Making Friends With The Questions Helps David Orgill Find Freedom In His Creativity

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How Making Friends With The Questions Helps David Orgill Find Freedom In His Creativity · I Don't Know You

0:04
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Matt.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm a Jesus follower,
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SPEAKER_01: husband,
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SPEAKER_01: father,
0:07
SPEAKER_01: son,
0:08
SPEAKER_01: and friend who is super curious about topics like parenthood,
0:11
SPEAKER_01: creativity,
0:12
SPEAKER_01: and the tension between ambition and contentment,
0:14
SPEAKER_01: all while living in the distraction of the 21st century.
0:17
These conversations serve as a way for me to hear from people I
0:20
deeply respect on
0:22
SPEAKER_01: topics that I'm still learning about.
0:24
Can you give me 10 seconds of your time to ask if you could
0:28
share,
0:28
follow,
0:29
and review?
0:29
It would be a great help to make these conversations more
0:32
discoverable for
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SPEAKER_01: like-minded creatives.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: My goal is to continue to make these as best as I can and bring relevant
0:39
SPEAKER_01: conversations to you that you'll find interesting.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: It seriously means so much to me.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: Today,
0:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm joined by my dear friend,
0:47
SPEAKER_01: David Orgill,
0:48
SPEAKER_01: a recognized filmmaker,
0:49
SPEAKER_01: and most importantly,
0:50
SPEAKER_01: amazing husband and dad.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: In our conversations together,
0:54
SPEAKER_01: we dive into fatherhood,
0:55
SPEAKER_01: distraction as noise,
0:57
and the difference between eating candy and a home-cooked meal
1:00
when it comes to
1:01
SPEAKER_01: consuming media.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening, and I hope you enjoy this conversation.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: thank you for making time to chat with me.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I've been wanting to do this for a long time.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: I feel like we've talked about it for a long time and,
1:16
SPEAKER_01: uh,
1:17
SPEAKER_01: it's finally coming to fruition,
1:18
SPEAKER_01: which is nice.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: Um,
1:22
We're here in lovely Dana Point,
1:26
enjoying a beautiful sunrise and getting to hang out together.
1:29
It's always one of my favorite things to get to talk to you and
1:34
share life with you.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I really appreciate it.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: For those that don't know who David is, he's a filmmaker and creative.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: and dad and awesome father and husband and all that kind of stuff.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: And a business owner and that kind of stuff.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: But I kind of wanted to open up our time with this question.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: When someone asks you who you are,
1:59
SPEAKER_01: what part of your life do you instinctively lead with right now?
2:03
SPEAKER_00: That's a really good question.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: I think I also just want to say it right off the top.
2:10
One of my favorite things about you is how curious you are and
2:13
how like I think
2:16
you're a kindred spirit in a way of like a wanderer is the word
2:21
where currently
2:22
like the last 10 years I feel like I've been a wanderer in the
2:27
sense of like what
2:29
am I doing here and what should I be doing here and who am I
2:33
and all like I feel
2:34
like I'm at the beginning of that journey but we've been
2:37
hanging out and talking
2:38
SPEAKER_00: like this for four or five years
2:40
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that's one of my favorite things,
2:42
SPEAKER_00: is that you're constantly pursuing those questions.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: Those questions aren't just sitting around.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: You're like, hey, you look like you might have an answer.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Can we get coffee?
2:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, hey.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: And we're just following up and constantly pursuing, yeah.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, it's your curiosity and then pursuing that.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like, yeah, that's one of my favorite things about you.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, right back at you.
3:02
I feel like the reason that I am curious is because there's so
3:07
much to be curious about.
3:08
But I also think that you become more curious with the people
3:12
that you hang out with.
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SPEAKER_01: And I feel like you are also very curious.
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SPEAKER_01: But you're further along in the journey of life, I think, in some ways.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: I get it.
3:21
um you're very wise beyond your years when it comes to some of
3:24
those questions that
3:25
you've been wrestling with and so i'm i'm grateful that you've
3:27
brought me into your
3:28
journey in that way yeah but yeah now you're avoiding the
3:32
question oh yeah i think
3:33
SPEAKER_00: the question it's for me it starts with that like the i'm constantly
3:41
SPEAKER_00: wandering and trying to figure out who I am.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: And so I I'm still working on it,
3:48
SPEAKER_00: but I always feel uneasy when someone asks me,
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SPEAKER_00: like,
3:52
SPEAKER_00: can you kind of tell me about yourself?
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I'm like a sales pitch.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know where to start.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: And there's like I'm just like kind of a mess at all.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: So I'm still figuring it out.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: But I think it depends.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm a very responsive person to the people that I'm around.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: So like, I'm always kind of like
4:11
understanding who you are the context of how you know me like
4:15
your network of
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people like the work that you do and that will inform me i'll
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change my answer to
4:21
give it because uh yeah i do different things in different
4:25
areas but it's always
4:26
like filmmaking and being a dad is like the quick answers i
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think yeah like
4:29
oftentimes um and then like if you're if we're having a deep
4:33
conversation i feel
4:34
like the the best answer that i've been reminding myself of is
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like uh i'm a child
4:40
SPEAKER_00: of god like yeah
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SPEAKER_00: I'm somebody, like, I'm somebody's kid and I'm super loved.
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SPEAKER_00: Like,
4:46
SPEAKER_00: that's not something I just tell people right after that,
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SPEAKER_00: but it's like the answer,
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SPEAKER_00: like,
4:51
SPEAKER_00: who are you?
4:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like, I think that's the core of it.
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And I think the more I can understand that,
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the better I feel about answering that question.
4:58
Like,
4:58
oh yeah,
4:59
well right now I'm working on this and right now my kids are
5:01
this age.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: I like,
5:04
the reason I ask is because I feel like so many times and
5:07
especially in the work
5:08
SPEAKER_01: that I'm doing now with like,
5:09
SPEAKER_01: it's a very sales focused role.
5:11
It's all the pitching of like,
5:13
this is who I am and how I got to where I am.
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And like,
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can I make that really like digestible and accessible for
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people?
5:20
And then like also sell something to you in the moment that
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doesn't feel salesy,
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SPEAKER_01: that feels genuine and authentic and all those things.
5:27
SPEAKER_01: But it is really like
5:29
SPEAKER_01: if I was being honest,
5:31
SPEAKER_01: I feel like the the answer I want to give people is like,
5:34
SPEAKER_01: oh,
5:34
like I'm a husband and a dad and like I'm excited about
5:38
creativity in these ways.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: It's not like, oh, this is what I do for work.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's usually the answer that people give.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's like a Western context type thing.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: But also, yeah, it depends on who's asking me.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're asking me who you are and you already know me,
5:53
SPEAKER_00: you might be asking a deeper question.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: If we meet at a
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sales type thing or networking thing the question who you are
6:00
is like how can you
6:02
help me yeah yeah it's super dependent on context but i've
6:05
always wondered if like
6:08
regardless of context you answer the same way like or you
6:12
should answer the same
6:13
SPEAKER_01: way um yeah like and i think to your point
6:18
it does matter the context really does matter of like what
6:21
because someone that's
6:22
like networking or whatever if you're if you're just like oh
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i'm a dad and i love
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SPEAKER_01: my kids and it's like okay well what do you do for work like let me ask a
6:32
clarifying question yeah that i thought you would have gotten
6:35
the first time yeah
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SPEAKER_01: But then I kind of want to feel like I,
6:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
6:41
SPEAKER_01: disrupt people's state of mind a little bit sometimes.
6:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's just my my character.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: But I feel like waking people up from like the
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the most of the answers that I get when I ask people how
6:55
they're doing is good busy
6:57
tired like and then it takes like another time on top of so
7:03
usually I I diffuse the
7:05
tension of like and say some joke of like oh cool like now that
7:08
we got that stupid
7:09
answer out of the way like how do you actually how are you
7:12
actually doing yeah
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SPEAKER_01: that's good um
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SPEAKER_01: But I feel like so much of the time,
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SPEAKER_01: people are still like,
7:17
SPEAKER_01: hey,
7:18
SPEAKER_01: I gave you my little short answer.
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SPEAKER_01: Can I move on to something?
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SPEAKER_01: I don't want to think about the depth of that.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
7:25
that was always interesting when we were traveling because I
7:27
would ask people and
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SPEAKER_01: they were kind of like,
7:30
SPEAKER_01: taken aback at first because they were like, people don't ask that.
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SPEAKER_01: And also like, I'm going to be honest with you.
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SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times it was like, yeah, today's been pretty bad.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: Like I have this like tough conversation.
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And I was like,
7:41
oh,
7:41
you're going like deep into like what's going on in your life.
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SPEAKER_00: Was this when you were traveling like in Europe and stuff like that?
7:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Which is new people you'd meet?
7:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:49
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
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SPEAKER_01: Like someone, a barista at a coffee shop or like a waiter or whatever.
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SPEAKER_01: And they'd actually give me like really honest answers.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
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SPEAKER_01: And so it was like,
8:00
SPEAKER_01: it was kind of like,
8:00
SPEAKER_01: oh,
8:01
SPEAKER_01: that's like not how we think about things here in this context.
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So it just made me think about like,
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I don't know when I,
8:09
because I agree with you.
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SPEAKER_01: I think like the base identity is like child of God, follower of Jesus.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, well,
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part of me is like why am i not saying that in the
8:20
conversations that i have with
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people like that's the first thing that i'm talking about too
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but um but then
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opening up to a stranger hey i'm a child god is like all right
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well and it's like
8:30
they they do they deserve that type of like uh deep yeah yes
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and it's not that's
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SPEAKER_00: not actually what they're asking like
8:39
who are you like yeah yeah no i think it's interesting to kind
8:44
of see past i don't
8:47
know because because then obviously once you get to know
8:50
someone then people are so
8:51
nuanced and complicated that yeah you're you're uh at the end
8:57
of the day then then
8:58
you actually get to know someone yeah um right before we
9:01
started recording i was
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SPEAKER_01: bummed that we uh
9:04
weren't recording this but you were talking about like home and
9:07
you were talking
9:08
about like how you feel like this is home now oh yeah I wanted
9:12
to like follow up on
9:13
that because I don't feel like we closed that conversation yeah
9:17
what made you feel
9:18
like this was home yeah and so this feels like home like this
9:22
area yeah this this
9:24
SPEAKER_00: is the Dana Point jetty and
9:27
like grew up doing like harbor walks like we'd get our roller
9:31
skates on and like as
9:32
a family go like walk around do ice cream and I grew up in San
9:35
Clemente and then
9:37
since being married I lived in like Irvine and a bunch of
9:40
different cities and so I
9:42
again not totally knowing who I am it's like okay where like
9:45
where is home for me
9:46
SPEAKER_00: where would I land and settle
9:48
and it wasn't until I went on my first trip overseas without
9:52
Katie which was like
9:54
just me going alone to Africa and driving around these places
9:58
and I felt like
9:58
really uncomfortable and like missed where I was from yeah and
10:05
like I missed my
10:06
SPEAKER_00: family obviously but I didn't expect to like miss like
10:10
SPEAKER_00: I was weird to like see what I missed the most, like burritos.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: I miss burritos the most.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with that.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: And then I missed like the ocean.
10:19
Like I remember getting back here and like driving down like
10:21
PCH or something.
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SPEAKER_00: I think we went to go get burritos.
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SPEAKER_00: I was like, dude, this is my home.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Like this is where I'm from.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: And like you meet people over there and they're like, where are you from?
10:29
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, America.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: like more specifically like California.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh, cool.
10:33
Like,
10:33
well,
10:34
I have a place here,
10:36
I guess,
10:36
because I was like,
10:38
I just usually hang out here.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: So no one asked, like, you know, it's like, what city are you from?
10:42
SPEAKER_00: But like there was like, where in the world are you from?
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: What does that part of the world look like?
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you like about it?
10:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, yeah.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: Burritos.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Burritos are like, that's my like native food.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they've been around here for a long time.
11:00
SPEAKER_02: And they're really good.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Like the Spanish settled here in like the 1700s, like late 1700s.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think it was a surf thing, like a burrito, like taken to the beach.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: Like it was like, got popular with that.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Anyways, I grew up with burritos.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: We all did.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: Did you grow up surfing?
11:17
SPEAKER_00: No, but like at the beach.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: And I surfed a little bit,
11:20
SPEAKER_00: but like,
11:20
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
11:21
SPEAKER_00: you just like,
11:21
SPEAKER_00: you would,
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Pedro at the beach was like a common thing.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: Like cheap burritos or fish tacos and taken to the beach.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: It's the best.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: It's like the best.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Well,
11:29
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
11:30
SPEAKER_00: it was interesting because I,
11:32
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
11:32
I had never felt that feeling here 100% because I've just been
11:36
in apartments moving
11:36
SPEAKER_00: every year.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: That sense of like placement and like setting down roots.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's
11:45
SPEAKER_01: that's like a,
11:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
11:47
this is gonna be a leap to segue into like professional versus
11:51
like spiritual
11:52
SPEAKER_01: seasons that you're in now.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: But I feel like for me now in personal and professional and spiritual,
12:00
SPEAKER_01: like it feels like a lot of like,
12:01
SPEAKER_01: oh,
12:02
like what's working and what's not working and how do you like
12:04
build roots in the
12:05
SPEAKER_01: things that's not working?
12:07
SPEAKER_01: And if home is like here,
12:08
SPEAKER_01: you're building roots in it,
12:11
SPEAKER_01: like there's a safety and comfort and just like,
12:13
SPEAKER_01: okay,
12:13
SPEAKER_01: I have a place to,
12:15
be with my family and stuff but like personally for you like
12:19
within kind of where
12:21
you're at spiritually and where you're at professionally and
12:23
like are those at odds
12:25
at the moment or are like you kind of honing in and finding
12:29
roots in both of those
12:31
things that like feel like home I don't know if that's a in
12:34
what I do or yeah yeah
12:36
yeah for for work like have you found like a balance and a home
12:41
in in like the
12:42
SPEAKER_01: profession that you're doing and and like
12:44
SPEAKER_01: what's working and kind of driving towards that.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: And then I guess part two of my question is like,
12:50
how does that either have tension between like where you're at
12:54
spiritually or does
12:55
SPEAKER_01: it like align
12:57
yeah I don't know I guess my question is coming from like for
13:01
the longest time I've
13:02
always been like oh like the closest thing to like living as a
13:06
Jesus follower is
13:07
just like being a pastor because you're just like explicitly
13:11
sharing the gospel all
13:11
the time and like but obviously like not everybody can be
13:16
pastors and also we're
13:17
SPEAKER_01: called to like be
13:21
followers of Jesus in like whatever role we have and whatever
13:24
our skill sets are
13:26
everybody's different and unique in that way which is like a
13:30
beautiful thing it's
13:30
not something to be like oh man I wish everybody was a pastor
13:34
so we could just all
13:34
share the gospel or whatever together but I think that's been
13:38
like a journey and I
13:39
don't know if I've like found home I guess for lack of a better
13:43
analogy for like
13:45
SPEAKER_01: this is my skill set that lines up with like the profession that I have
13:49
SPEAKER_01: And I want to like drive towards that thing more.
13:51
And it's in line with like what you think God wants you to do
13:54
with your life.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that gives context.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: It's really good.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: I think that well, that is the ultimate question.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: That's where I've been.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: thinking the most about forever.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: And still, I don't have a good answer.
14:08
Like I have some better sense of where I'm at and what I want
14:12
to go towards now
14:13
SPEAKER_00: that I've been wandering for a long time.
14:17
And I think that I am making more and more peace with the
14:23
freedom of our own
14:26
SPEAKER_00: ability to write our own stories.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: I think that I
14:33
mostly assumed that God has like a plan for me and by plan he
14:37
has like plans like
14:38
okay David goes goes here goes to college like that he goes
14:43
here and like this is
14:44
the best job for him to do at this time and it's like the more
14:47
I'm learning and
14:49
SPEAKER_00: wandering I think God is like
14:51
I want to be with David all the time because I love him so much
14:55
and I don't really
14:58
mind what he does in a sense of like there's a spectrum
15:01
obviously like don't do
15:03
evil and like corrupt things or things that feel like not
15:07
aligned with who you are
15:08
and there's more there's more like participation than you
15:11
thought there was I feel
15:12
like I just ask God like God what do you want me to do in my
15:14
life like what do you
15:15
want me to do with my career like what do you like and I think
15:18
all I get back from
15:18
SPEAKER_00: him is like hey
15:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you want to do with your career?
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, what are you interested in?
15:24
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you want to do?
15:26
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, is it this?
15:27
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, maybe like, go for it.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, is it this?
15:30
SPEAKER_00: He's like, maybe like, go for it.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, I really feel like
15:33
I'm not getting that direct of answers,
15:35
but I'm not getting like a yes or no.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm not getting a yes or no.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: That's like when I,
15:40
SPEAKER_01: throughout the years,
15:41
SPEAKER_01: and I've learned to try and ask in different ways,
15:44
but literally like the same thing happens when I've like asked
15:47
my dad for advice
15:48
SPEAKER_01: because he's like one of the wisest guys I know.
15:50
And it's like,
15:51
can you please like just tell me what to do in this situation?
15:54
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I don't know.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: It seems like you have some open doors.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:58
and it's not like he's not supportive and loving it's just like
16:01
yeah yeah yeah
16:02
that's really that seems hard and it's like but tell me
16:07
prescribe to me the answer
16:09
yeah okay well it's good to know that I'm not alone in that
16:13
feeling I feel like
16:14
that's uh I don't know I'm always curious about like people
16:18
down the road more and
16:19
SPEAKER_01: even just like people that we know like Russ or whatever where it's like
16:22
They've done life with God and life in general for a lot longer
16:25
than we have.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: And it's like,
16:27
SPEAKER_01: oh,
16:27
SPEAKER_01: they're still sort of like,
16:29
SPEAKER_01: those are the lifelong questions that never really get answered.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: It's just like there's some version of wandering happen all the time.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: I was with Hyatt filming a little bit in the beginning of the year.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Hyatt is a 82 year old painter who's walked with God for over 50 years.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: I really want to have a chat with him at some point.
16:47
asked that same question at the beginning of this year yeah at
16:50
82 and i literally i
16:51
SPEAKER_00: smiled i didn't say anything to him at the time but i was like that is so
16:55
encouraging like i for sure would have thought you would figure
16:59
this out and also
16:59
it's so clear to me like you've been paying for 25 years like
17:02
you have ministry
17:02
here like you have he's like huh like i wonder like god what
17:06
what do you have for
17:06
SPEAKER_00: my life yeah i wonder where that is i'm like
17:09
SPEAKER_00: You do?
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: OK,
17:10
SPEAKER_00: well,
17:10
maybe that's kind of like a compass that we have in our minds
17:13
that kind of goes
17:13
SPEAKER_00: like,
17:13
SPEAKER_00: God,
17:14
SPEAKER_00: we're just checking in like this still good.
17:16
Like and feel free to like say something like,
17:19
but if not,
17:19
I'm going here.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: It's so much of Hyatt's life.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: I think that's why I've learned it is like self-generated.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Like he went down to Argentina with me and we I was going to film,
17:30
make some nonprofit videos for this small Christian school in
17:33
like a slum there.
17:35
And he introduced me to the nonprofit and he was kind of free
17:38
when we were going
17:38
SPEAKER_00: and was like,
17:39
SPEAKER_00: when are you guys going?
17:40
SPEAKER_00: He's like, yeah, maybe I'll come.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you will?
17:42
SPEAKER_00: He's like, yeah, I think they need some paintings down there.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: And then like propose something to Scott,
17:47
SPEAKER_00: like got on,
17:48
SPEAKER_00: got on the plane,
17:48
SPEAKER_00: like preached and painted at a church down there,
17:52
SPEAKER_00: put a bunch of paintings everywhere.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Why?
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Has God called him to do that?
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: No, because the ministry needed him to do that.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, like, uh,
18:04
Because any divine path or purpose,
18:06
like,
18:06
no,
18:07
he had an idea,
18:09
thought it was a good one.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: And yes, I think it is what God wanted.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: And I think the ministry didn't need it.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: And that's what he should be doing.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: But it started from, I think I'm going to do this.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: And then, and then went.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: But then, like, that almost seems like a personality.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: It is.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: It is.
18:27
And it seems easier or harder based on,
18:29
like,
18:29
who you are as a person,
18:31
too.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: And,
18:32
SPEAKER_01: like,
18:32
SPEAKER_01: for someone like him,
18:33
SPEAKER_01: getting to know him over the last couple years has been,
18:36
SPEAKER_01: like,
18:36
SPEAKER_01: he's very much,
18:37
SPEAKER_01: he's so self-disciplined.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: And he's so,
18:40
SPEAKER_01: he's so,
18:41
SPEAKER_01: like,
18:42
SPEAKER_01: I was talking to him the other day,
18:43
SPEAKER_01: and he was just telling me about this journal entry that he wrote.
18:45
And it was,
18:46
like,
18:47
it was really about,
18:48
like,
18:48
a little bit of everything works for me.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: Like,
18:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't really I'm trying to be open minded about like any avenue.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: And we were specifically talking about like his business as a painter.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: But he was like, there's not like one thing that has worked in the past.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: It's like a little bit of everything.
19:07
And I feel like that's a mentality and a personality thing like
19:10
melded together.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Because there are some people where it's like,
19:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm a specialist in this thing and I'm only doing this thing.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: But I think like to your point, how do you like
19:22
invite God into the process of like for lack of a better way of
19:27
saying it becoming
19:28
where it's just like oh I'm gonna yeah I don't actually know if
19:31
this is like the
19:32
right way but I'm gonna experiment with it so yeah yeah I'll go
19:35
I'll go to where
19:37
did you go was it Argentina I was gonna say Ecuador but that's
19:43
where I'm going
19:44
SPEAKER_01: South America somewhere and like
19:49
SPEAKER_01: having that adventurous spirit,
19:51
SPEAKER_01: but that also feels like,
19:54
and I think that's part of the beauty of relationship with God
19:59
is that He uses your
20:02
SPEAKER_01: unique relationship with you,
20:05
which has also been an interesting thing to think through for
20:08
me because it's like,
20:09
SPEAKER_01: oh,
20:09
SPEAKER_01: well,
20:09
SPEAKER_01: what if I'm an introvert person that
20:13
isn't as open to things or isn't like I can't relate to that
20:17
because I'm about as
20:19
SPEAKER_01: social and as extroverted as anybody can be.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: But like even in that,
20:25
SPEAKER_01: I think there's I mean,
20:26
SPEAKER_01: there's very unique ways that he speaks to those people,
20:28
SPEAKER_01: too.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: But it's like, yeah, I think for me, it's just how do you.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: I guess like I want the answer,
20:35
SPEAKER_01: but then the answer always seems to be like,
20:38
SPEAKER_01: oh,
20:38
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
20:38
SPEAKER_01: like I'm still figuring out the answer and I'm 82 years old.
20:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Also, there's like a sense of like, there's this guy, Marie Reich.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: He's a poet and he wrote this beautiful book, Letters to a Young Poet.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: I think I probably handed it to you at one point or told you about it.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: But basically, he's this more successful poet.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: He's written and published some books.
21:02
gets in a letter they're like writing letters to each other
21:05
this is a young guy
21:05
who's starting out his career he wants to be a poet he's
21:08
writing some things he
21:09
sends his work over to him and asks all these questions just
21:12
like you like same
21:13
thing like what like how do we tell me the tell me you know
21:16
like who am i like how
21:17
do i do this how do i figure it out and he said something he
21:21
says it so beautifully
21:22
SPEAKER_00: but basically he just says like hey like
21:25
SPEAKER_00: make friends with the questions like live into the questions right now.
21:29
Like he's basically so focused on like he wants the answers and
21:34
the wiser poet is kind of like,
21:38
make friends with the questions like hang out with them like
21:42
get to know them like
21:43
not supposed to be over here yet like walk around with a
21:47
question in your mind
21:49
unanswered for a year but it almost seems like it's it's like a
21:53
lot of those big
21:54
questions are like lifelong questions that you don't you you
21:58
understand little tiny
22:00
pieces of them if you're actually becoming friends with them
22:02
yes um but like
22:05
I think my need for closed projects and a nice bow on top is
22:10
like,
22:11
I need the answer.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: I've been thinking a lot about this idea recently,
22:16
like the story in Exodus of the Israelites in the wilderness
22:21
and God giving them
22:22
SPEAKER_01: manna every day.
22:25
and I think it's just like a hilarious story in some ways
22:27
because it's it's like
22:29
they're complaining a bunch and he's like cool I'll just like
22:31
literally rain down
22:32
food on you every single day which is wild obviously and then
22:37
on top of that
22:38
they're like actually like can we like have something else for
22:41
food like this
22:42
food's kind of planned and boring and then he's like yeah yeah
22:45
yeah cool like I'll
22:46
give you some meat I'll give you some quail every day it's just
22:49
like a crazy stuff
22:50
SPEAKER_01: anyway the
22:52
the the thing that i've been thinking about is like maybe part
22:56
of living with the
22:56
questions is like and and the story goes on to say like if
23:01
you're if you're taking
23:03
more than your share for the day then it like goes rotten
23:05
immediately yes and i
23:07
SPEAKER_01: think like in my control freak like
23:12
uh miss that i have that i want to like oh i i this closed
23:16
project i need to get
23:17
this this way or whatever um and and in my like semblance of
23:22
control that i don't
23:22
have i'm like i want to hoard the the mana so that i can like
23:27
plan properly yes
23:28
rather than be like oh no like it's only gonna last a day like
23:32
how do i have my
23:33
SPEAKER_01: daily bread i guess and like live in the questions um
23:38
But I feel like that's like a story I've been thinking about a
23:41
lot recently where
23:42
SPEAKER_01: it's like,
23:43
what about tomorrow am I like thinking about that I don't need
23:47
to be thinking
23:47
SPEAKER_01: about?
23:49
SPEAKER_01: And it feels like pondering the questions is like an ever present thing.
23:54
And therefore it's like a daily thing rather than like a,
23:57
well,
23:57
I figured that answer out.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Like I figured that question out.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: So like, I don't think about that anymore or whatever.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Cause those are all the biggest, like, how do you have a good marriage?
24:05
SPEAKER_01: How do you have a,
24:06
good like relationship with your kids how do you have like
24:09
those things I think are
24:10
always evolving and changing because you're changing as a
24:13
person yeah but yeah I
24:15
think I mean that's I need to reread if you have sent that to
24:19
me yeah I need to
24:20
SPEAKER_01: reread that again but yeah that's
24:25
SPEAKER_01: That's not the answer I wanted.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: But it is, I feel like it's the answer that I feel these days.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:33
And I feel like,
24:33
yeah,
24:34
I don't know if I answered the home life kind of part of it.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Like same question for them.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: No, I think like in a roundabout way, we've, we've,
24:43
circled the question enough yeah yeah and also yeah i don't
24:48
know how how well my i
24:50
was trying to tie in what we've been talking about into the
24:52
questions that i built
24:53
yeah but then i realized that a lot of my questions are kind of
24:56
all over the place
24:57
good um so i also want to be like and this is part of like
25:03
starting this out yeah
25:04
SPEAKER_01: um i don't know i want the
25:07
SPEAKER_01: conversations to feel as natural as possible,
25:10
SPEAKER_01: but then also guide them on some level to have some sort of theme.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: But I think I mean,
25:16
now we're getting into the mechanics of like recording and all
25:20
that kind of stuff,
25:20
SPEAKER_01: because I don't want it to feel like,
25:22
SPEAKER_01: OK,
25:22
SPEAKER_01: we started recording.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Now we can have our conversation.
25:24
Like,
25:25
I just want to almost like as I see you immediately,
25:28
like,
25:28
here's here's your mic.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Let's start the conversation.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that'd be cool.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably how I'll start doing it,
25:34
SPEAKER_01: because for me,
25:35
SPEAKER_01: like these conversations are already happening.
25:38
And like one of the main reasons I want to start recording more
25:41
of these is just
25:42
SPEAKER_01: because like I want to look back.
25:44
One of the things that I love most is like looking back through
25:47
old journals that I have.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:49
And kind of seeing the evolution of my mind as like when I
25:54
first started dating
25:55
SPEAKER_01: Shelby and then like four years in before I proposed to her or whatever,
26:00
like the difference between how I thought about our
26:03
relationship or now like being
26:05
SPEAKER_01: a dad and like having another kid on the way or whatever,
26:08
SPEAKER_01: like
26:09
thinking about things that like I wrote down before we were
26:13
pregnant or like,
26:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
26:15
SPEAKER_01: just getting into the details of that.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: And there's so many details that you like,
26:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
26:20
SPEAKER_01: every single time you and I talk,
26:21
SPEAKER_01: we have an amazing conversation.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, I almost want to record all of our conversations.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: And there is something to not recording a conversation too,
26:29
SPEAKER_01: because I think you can get a better conversation.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: there's more depth that you can get into without,
26:35
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
26:36
there's obviously going to be things that you're not going to
26:38
share and you
26:39
SPEAKER_01: shouldn't share,
26:39
SPEAKER_01: uh,
26:40
SPEAKER_01: in a recording.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: Um,
26:42
SPEAKER_01: but I just like,
26:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to look back in like years from now and be like,
26:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah,
26:46
SPEAKER_01: like it's cool to see how I've,
26:49
SPEAKER_01: uh,
26:49
SPEAKER_01: like pondered those questions more and lived with them or whatever.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm farther along than I thought I would be or whatever.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I'm always curious about that.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Uh,
27:00
that idea of like if we're thinking about um i don't know what
27:04
i was just listening
27:05
to something recently this idea of like um if you if you like
27:11
shoot for the stars
27:12
and land on the moon then you're still like in space that idea
27:15
of basically like
27:17
you you did this really hard thing even though you were like
27:20
trying to do something
27:21
SPEAKER_01: way better um
27:23
SPEAKER_01: But then like,
27:24
SPEAKER_01: how do you have,
27:24
SPEAKER_01: oh yeah,
27:25
I was a podcast with Matthew McConaughey and he was basically
27:29
just talking about
27:30
SPEAKER_01: like,
27:31
SPEAKER_01: if we're shooting for like straight A's,
27:33
SPEAKER_01: he is like such a poetic mind.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: But if we're shooting for like straight A's,
27:37
SPEAKER_01: but then we end up with a C,
27:39
SPEAKER_01: like that's still better than an F.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: And then like,
27:42
SPEAKER_01: how do we quickly readjust our expectations so that we're like,
27:45
SPEAKER_01: you know,
27:46
SPEAKER_01: that's not bad.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: I still got a C. I don't know if I'm making sense.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: No, 100%.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: I think it's also reminded me of like,
27:54
the world that i live into helps or adds to that like feeling
27:59
of lost and like in
28:01
this spinning circle of like okay like what should i do and
28:03
then like who am i and
28:04
then like what should i where should i go and it's like oh
28:06
that's oh yeah matt said
28:07
that thing oh yeah like this podcast thing and it's like i
28:11
right now uh this year
28:13
i'm trying to do more actions than more than less thinking yeah
28:18
uh and that's been
28:19
SPEAKER_00: quieting my mind a little bit like i think like
28:22
SPEAKER_00: even just trying to stay off Instagram or off a little bit.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Don't get me started.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Even just consuming in general.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: I think listening to podcasts, good ones stuff in the car.
28:30
It's like,
28:32
I think I'm getting sick or,
28:36
or spinning a little bit in this flood of information.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: And that's really good.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: This is all helpful.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: This is all great,
28:44
SPEAKER_00: but I should just,
28:45
SPEAKER_00: can I just hear this one thing and like,
28:46
SPEAKER_00: give me like three weeks before I get another one.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Or else I just, I want to think about it.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: I want to,
28:52
Because it's like I only have space in my head to like hold
28:54
like 10 ideas or something.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: And so I keep getting new ideas.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm losing ideas as well.
28:58
Well,
28:58
that's the challenge of like,
29:00
there's so many great content creators.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: There's so much great content out there.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: And then there's like so much, it's all noise on some level.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think like every year...
29:11
SPEAKER_01: I me and Shelby have like a word of the year.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:15
And this year I feel like it's it's just like praying and
29:18
thinking through it like
29:19
and this is going to be like the hardest word ever for me
29:21
because it's slow.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: This idea of like how can you like subtract from your life and say no,
29:28
SPEAKER_01: which is like I'm the biggest yes man ever.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: I love saying yes to things.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: I love like.
29:33
being around people all the time i love like going to events
29:36
and and hanging out
29:38
with people and all that kind of stuff and so it's like how do
29:41
you reduce the noise
29:44
in your life and i feel like the even just social media and
29:47
youtube like i'm trying
29:49
to like not i mean it's the same idea we were talking about
29:53
while we were getting
29:54
coffee about like drinking where like i'm just taking a break
29:56
from that for a while
29:57
SPEAKER_01: yes and it's been like
29:59
you you notice like a difference a huge difference and
30:02
obviously anybody that's
30:04
taking a break understands that but like uh it's the same thing
30:08
like maybe even
30:08
more with social media and with uh things like youtube and a
30:12
lot of like good
30:13
things yeah but it is i i feel that idea of like noise in your
30:18
brain and like
30:20
if there's not an enough noise then like the boredom like
30:24
creativity it stems from
30:25
boredom on some level and so it's like how do you how do you
30:30
like capitalize on
30:31
that which is like the value add that you have into the world
30:35
um and then like
30:36
because i i love youtube like so much yeah it's it's awesome
30:41
and i think there's so
30:42
much great content on there yes and and i'm saying this all
30:45
tongue-in-cheek because
30:46
SPEAKER_01: like at the end of the day i'm going to upload this to youtube like
30:50
and create more noise and so it's like is it noise that I am
30:54
okay with creating I
30:55
SPEAKER_01: guess and then if other people watch it great if other people don't like
30:59
historically I'll have this conversation that's like the main
31:01
goal for me but
31:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
31:04
SPEAKER_01: I totally agree with like even just on the work commutes,
31:08
like not listening to the productivity podcast as much like I
31:13
don't need more
31:14
SPEAKER_01: ideas.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: I need more space to like have my own ideas.
31:20
create like and create action within them yeah and I don't know
31:23
if it's like just
31:24
my algorithm or whatever all my stuff is informational things
31:27
like same how to look
31:28
like yeah how to grow your business how do you do marketing I
31:32
started listening to
31:33
Lord of the Rings I've read the books and stuff but I started
31:36
listening to you it's
31:37
founded on Spotify and I'm almost done with fellowship with the
31:39
ring and that's
31:40
SPEAKER_00: been like replacing like some podcasts and things in the
31:44
SPEAKER_00: the work or the gift that it is to like my soul is so unexpected.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: And I can't tell you exactly why,
31:53
SPEAKER_00: but I feel like more excited or like more like free or like,
31:57
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
31:58
SPEAKER_00: it's adding to my creativity.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Like you're inspired.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: And it's like sitting around in there,
32:03
like I'm thinking about these things that he said and these
32:05
like scenes that
32:06
SPEAKER_00: they're in like throughout the day.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's it's making me happy.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think
32:14
informational based content or like things like that where i'm
32:18
learning that's
32:20
never resonated with me like i never was good at that i was
32:23
always like teach me
32:24
while we're doing the thing like i need to like filmmaking i
32:28
can't learn in a book
32:29
no like i have to like let's go mess up nobody can yeah and so
32:35
i don't know yeah
32:36
SPEAKER_00: how that's yeah but i the information is like too much for me
32:39
SPEAKER_00: I resonate with that idea.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: I've been watching this show with my brother called Pluribus.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: Have you heard of this?
32:47
SPEAKER_01: I just saw the thumbnail.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Is it Apple TV?
32:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's by the same creator that did Breaking Bad.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Have you seen Breaking Bad?
32:57
SPEAKER_01: The way that he writes is just so slow.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: And it's really messing with my brain because I'm in the...
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to admit it.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: I like Mr. Beast videos.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: I think they're like fun and dumb.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: They're just like candy.
33:13
And so it's like a Vince Gilligan episode of Breaking Bad or
33:20
Pluribus is like a
33:21
SPEAKER_01: nice steak dinner.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, most of the time, I just, I want like some Skittles.
33:28
And so it's like,
33:30
I was watching it last night and the episode that we watched
33:33
was like,
33:34
so slow and it's like a 15 minute episode or what and and in
33:39
the back of my head
33:39
i'm like and maybe this is because i'm like a new dad or
33:42
whatever but i'm just i
33:43
feel like time is slipping through my my fingers like sand like
33:49
it's or like water
33:50
like it's even worse than where it's like every minute seems to
33:54
like be so valuable
33:56
um and so I was watching this with my brother Andrew and he was
33:59
like dude you like
34:01
cannot you just have to enjoy the ride like this is this is how
34:06
Vince Gilligan
34:06
writes like he writes and then like it builds into this epic I
34:12
mean it's the same
34:12
thing with Lord of the Rings like yes there are these small
34:15
moments where it's like
34:16
you were even telling me about like where you're at you're
34:18
probably farther along
34:19
SPEAKER_01: now but like
34:20
they're just so much of their time is like walking and talking
34:24
yes and it's like a
34:25
lot of people that i've talked to recently that have been
34:28
reading it are like bored
34:30
yeah because it's like i thought it was going to be like the
34:32
movies or whatever and
34:34
the movies are still insanely amazing yeah but they're made as
34:37
movies so it's like
34:38
you can't you can't like expand it in the way you can with
34:42
writing and so it's like
34:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
34:44
It's just like my I feel my appetite for like slower things
34:49
coming back to me
34:50
SPEAKER_01: because I'm like spending less time on Instagram and YouTube.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm taking that analogy.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that clicks something in my head.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: I've heard that a couple of times,
34:57
SPEAKER_00: right,
34:57
SPEAKER_00: where it's like fast food is the example for like social media content,
35:01
SPEAKER_00: like candy or like soda.
35:02
I think even like that is that and it's so attractive and it
35:06
sells like nobody's business.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: And then like everyone knows it and likes it.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, steak dinner is like
35:12
even maybe a home-cooked meal is a better like way better you
35:15
have to get the
35:16
ingredients you like you're smelling it as it gets made it's
35:19
more fulfilling like
35:20
there's more work to be done to make it happen but it's so much
35:23
better for you and
35:24
better tasting i saw hamnet the other day have you heard of
35:27
that oh i want to see
35:28
that oh my god it's like the fill it's like top 10 for me and i
35:33
left just like i
35:33
was like katie i was like did you see it in the theater oh even
35:36
better i was like
35:37
SPEAKER_00: dude
35:38
I forgot things like that existed yeah like what do we just
35:43
experience and see
35:44
through the medium that I love like I should know that more
35:47
than I think I never
35:48
never was super into films but like that like rocked me and
35:51
it's so slow it's so
35:52
SPEAKER_00: yeah and like
35:54
but it's all just conversations and beautiful in the next day
35:57
and then in the fall
35:58
even now i saw like a month ago i feel like like a good meal
36:01
like yeah it sits with
36:02
you for the next meal it's like and even emotionally like it
36:05
did it was like it fed
36:06
SPEAKER_00: me and it emotionally fed me like yeah
36:09
wow like i really like that yeah well i think that's like the
36:13
that's one of the
36:13
questions that i wrestle with a ton is like as a creative
36:18
person and as like
36:19
specifically film because like that's our that's our medium
36:22
yeah it's like man how
36:24
do you because you're you're living into uh and maybe there's
36:29
more there's more
36:30
variables in the spectrum but like you're living into some
36:34
version of either the
36:35
SPEAKER_01: candy or the the like family meal
36:38
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, how do you
36:40
and like as a business you you have to like meet people where
36:45
they're at on some
36:45
level and most people are in the candy section and so it's like
36:50
that that is when i
36:51
when i watch a movie like hamnet or 1917 where it's just like
36:55
oh this is like what
36:57
it means to make an amazing film yeah it's like uh which i
37:00
still need to see him um
37:02
yeah but uh like to me it's how do you how do you live in the
37:07
tension of like
37:09
You must make money and you must do what's kind of successful
37:15
in the business world
37:16
SPEAKER_01: on some level now.
37:17
But then also,
37:18
like,
37:18
how do you infuse your art into it so that it is like the
37:23
family meal?
37:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what just clicked with me.
37:25
I feel like it's a new thought that you unlocked,
37:27
which is like,
37:28
oh,
37:28
who do you want to be?
37:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can sell candy.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: That's totally a thing.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Like you can make a candy shop and like whatever or soda or whatever.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: But like at the end of the day,
37:37
SPEAKER_00: when you're older,
37:38
are you going to be stoked that you spent your life like
37:40
feeding people things that
37:41
SPEAKER_00: you knew that weren't that good for them and maybe feeding them too much?
37:45
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Or like, do you want to have something like steak or a home cooked meal?
37:51
That's like you spent your life feeding people like even though
37:57
less people came
37:57
SPEAKER_00: and even though,
37:58
SPEAKER_00: you know,
37:59
SPEAKER_00: it wasn't as easy to get in front of somebody,
38:01
SPEAKER_00: the people that you got to serve,
38:02
SPEAKER_00: like they were so well fed because of the work that you did.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: And I think that just clicked in my head of like, oh, yeah.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: I want to do that.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: And you can invite people to that.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think there is like a meet, maybe what you're saying of business.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: Like there's a, the reason I saw Hamnet was because I saw a trailer.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: And that was a three minute, get you excited and invite you.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: And how do you get to someone's house?
38:24
SPEAKER_00: And it's not going to speak to everybody.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: And how do you get to someone's house?
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: You get invited.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, Hey, you should come over.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you like?
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Like I'll cook you that.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Or like,
38:32
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:32
SPEAKER_00: it's like,
38:33
SPEAKER_00: there's a way to,
38:33
SPEAKER_00: I think,
38:34
SPEAKER_00: make invitations to slower paced things.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:39
SPEAKER_00: Like still sexy.
38:40
yeah like maybe you know you have a little a little piece of
38:46
candy that's a part of
38:47
the big meal yeah well and then I think there's something to
38:50
like eventually
38:52
getting a reputation that like I mean I don't know when I think
38:56
of you I think of
38:56
like those type of family meals and being seen and heard and
39:00
being loved well and
39:01
so it's like eventually it won't even matter what David's doing
39:06
it's just like
39:07
yeah i want to be a part of whatever it is because of who i
39:10
know him to be yes and
39:12
it's like that's how i feel about like that's why i was like
39:15
yes to the pluribus
39:16
show where it was like oh i know vince vince gilligan i like
39:21
his stuff um i know
39:23
that it's like kind of a slog on some level because it's just
39:27
like so antithetical
39:29
SPEAKER_01: to like how
39:31
people are making content now but i know that like i trust him
39:35
to to show me where
39:36
to go in this story um even though it's like the last episode
39:41
was like so painfully
39:43
slow and also just like i don't know i think the season that
39:46
i'm in now is like man
39:48
SPEAKER_01: i can like every minute
39:51
I should be doing something that's like...
39:54
And I think like this is an error in my thinking.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: I think it's like a lot of different variables.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: One is just like growing up the way that I did.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Like my... Like I...
40:08
my dad is probably one of my best friends and we have an
40:11
amazing relationship but
40:13
something he always like uh kind of holds in high esteem above
40:18
like almost anything
40:19
else is like being productive and so i think there's like a
40:23
piece of that that like
40:25
has it's like so deeply rooted in my bones yeah that it's like
40:30
now i feel the
40:31
SPEAKER_01: weight of responsibility like
40:33
SPEAKER_01: being like not only a husband,
40:36
SPEAKER_01: but also like a dad now and being like,
40:39
SPEAKER_01: man,
40:39
SPEAKER_01: every minute is precious to where like when Verena is up,
40:44
SPEAKER_01: like I have to I want to be present with her.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: and what's going on.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: And then when she's not up, then like that's my time.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: And so it's like, what do I want to use my time for?
40:55
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you just have to unplug and you have to get inspired.
40:58
And that's like where I think something like watching Pluribus
41:01
is like a great example.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: But I always have that voice in the back of my head that's like,
41:08
is this the best use of time and and so it was like i was
41:12
wrestling with that
41:13
yesterday where i was like i am i don't know if i'm enjoying
41:16
this right now like
41:18
this is so slow so boring yeah like the mr the the next beast
41:22
game season comes out
41:24
tomorrow like i could just wait for that and i could just work
41:27
on like that's good
41:28
SPEAKER_01: i gotta like write the
41:30
I got to write whatever or like I have all these projects I
41:33
want to work on.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: And so it's like constantly prioritizing all that.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: But I think like one of the biggest variables is probably just like the
41:42
productivity mindset of like you need to check those boxes off
41:45
and like feel
41:47
SPEAKER_01: rewarded that you've got something done during the day.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: That makes a lot of sense.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: And that makes I would.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, can I ask you this then?
41:55
SPEAKER_00: Because you are one of the people I think that really loved
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Ruth's Elimination of Her.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I heard that from you like multiple times.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't know when I read it, but it was probably on the same time.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: It also hit really hard for me,
42:07
SPEAKER_00: which was like,
42:08
SPEAKER_00: whoa,
42:08
SPEAKER_00: like almost like I didn't know that was a choice.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know this was available to me.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: No one really taught me that Sabbath was this practice.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: This sounds so cool.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: How has that helped in that way of like
42:22
SPEAKER_00: slowing you down or helping give some pace to you?
42:27
SPEAKER_00: That is opposite of productivity.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: I actually think it's one of the most productive things you can do.
42:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yes.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: But it does feel... It does feel...
42:38
SPEAKER_01: Backwards.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
42:41
SPEAKER_01: because,
42:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
42:41
he talks about this in the book that we're talking about is by
42:44
this pastor and
42:46
SPEAKER_01: author,
42:46
SPEAKER_01: John Mark Comer.
42:47
I'm assuming that the people that are listening to this will
42:50
know who that is.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: All three of them that are listening.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:57
But in his book,
42:58
Ruthless Elimination of Her,
42:59
he talks about this idea of Sabbath.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: This is not a new idea.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: This is,
43:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
43:03
SPEAKER_01: the beginning of time,
43:05
SPEAKER_01: basically,
43:05
SPEAKER_01: like Genesis,
43:08
SPEAKER_01: like on the seventh day,
43:09
SPEAKER_01: God rested.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: And so throughout the generations,
43:15
people have made that more practical in basically like a
43:19
24-hour period of
43:22
kind of like work is never done and so it's like stopping and
43:27
basically reflecting
43:28
and doing the things that align with God's heart and with our
43:36
pleasure and
43:37
worshiping them in that and so no I think that's like one of
43:41
the most productive
43:42
things and and like when we do it right and we're still in the
43:46
we're in the tiny
43:47
tiny baby step beginning phase of like practicing that I think
43:52
just because like
43:53
I think in our culture and in Orange County like busy is like
43:58
the way that you're I
44:00
think like that's marketed as happiness a lot of the time and
44:03
so like unhurrying
44:05
yourself and like being like actually I don't have anything on
44:08
the docket today for
44:09
me because I'm such an extroverted social person I'm like oh I
44:13
don't have anything
44:13
SPEAKER_01: on the docket let me plan let me make my day as busy as possible
44:20
And and so Sabbath is really hard for me because it's like the
44:24
it is like hanging
44:25
SPEAKER_01: out with people,
44:26
SPEAKER_01: but it's not doing like 17 things.
44:28
It's like I'm inviting people over for like a family dinner or
44:32
whatever,
44:33
like at its best.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: Most of the time,
44:36
most of the time it's like I'm still wrestling with that and
44:40
trying to work through
44:40
SPEAKER_01: it.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
44:43
SPEAKER_01: that like at its best,
44:44
SPEAKER_01: it's deeply restorative to like not only your physical self,
44:49
SPEAKER_01: but also just like your soul to slow down and to enjoy like
44:55
inspiration like one thing that I love doing and in this season
44:59
it's like so hard
45:00
to find time to like watch the movies that I want to watch and
45:04
so it's like
45:05
Saturday morning I wake up at like five anyway like there's no
45:10
no way to stop that
45:11
for me I wish I was like other people and I could like sleep in
45:16
but I just can't
45:18
um and so i was like oh like it would be fun to i don't know
45:21
like growing up
45:22
everybody was doing like saturday morning cartoons like i'll
45:25
just watch my movie in
45:26
SPEAKER_01: the morning or whatever like so that's like something that i find deeply
45:30
restorative and trying to like watch more of the long like more
45:35
of the slow type
45:36
SPEAKER_01: movies and less of the candy type movies
45:39
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm mixing metaphors.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: No, that's so good.
45:42
I do think that's such a huge piece of like the wandering and
45:45
the questioning.
45:46
Like,
45:47
I think you end up spending more time wandering if you don't
45:51
slow down.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: Come on.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: Because then you're not actually like, I don't know.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: It's like when someone has a problem and they don't actually address it.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: They're just like, you know, actually, I will just go.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: Because you kind of can power through.
46:05
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
46:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Humans are insanely good at adapting.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: This is my fight every day.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to journal more.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: Trying to journal once a day at least.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: Once a week is my goal.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: But I always feel that.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't have time to reflect on my life.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: And that's not a priority.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: Because I got this, this, this, this.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: And then a couple months go by and I'm like, dang, I feel that.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: For me,
46:31
it's always something in my stomach that just feels like
46:34
anxious or not knowing,
46:37
SPEAKER_00: not even knowing where I am or how I feel about things.
46:39
Do you think that's a product of doing too much stuff or a
46:42
product of not doing enough stuff?
46:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
46:44
SPEAKER_00: not resting enough and quieting myself to reflect on my own life,
46:50
SPEAKER_00: like being quiet in prayer time,
46:53
SPEAKER_00: being quiet and just like making that space to...
46:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: examine my own life, you know what I mean?
46:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, make my own opinions on that.
47:01
Like,
47:01
I think that has been,
47:02
yeah,
47:04
what you just said is like,
47:05
that is so true.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: Even just what you were just saying,
47:09
SPEAKER_01: like being quiet,
47:10
SPEAKER_01: that's like,
47:11
SPEAKER_01: and especially someone like the type of personality I have,
47:16
SPEAKER_01: it's so hard to like,
47:18
SPEAKER_01: listen well.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: And I think I'm okay at doing that.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: But like, in my own life, I think I'm really bad at it.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: Like,
47:27
being quiet enough to like hear because i mean it's even it's
47:31
all over the bible
47:32
this idea of like god doesn't like sometimes he'll speak with
47:35
like thunder and
47:36
lightning but most of the time it's like that still small voice
47:40
that's like in the
47:42
wandering and the questioning and like after you've thought
47:45
about it for a really
47:46
SPEAKER_01: long time and prayed for for
47:48
answer that you don't get for a lot like and that's why you
47:52
have to I think that's
47:53
why you have to keep showing up to those questions and stuff
47:56
but it does feel like
47:58
a lot of a lot of progression and growth in life and spiritual
48:02
life like happens in
48:03
SPEAKER_01: quiet
48:05
and like uh pretty much everything in our world like is a
48:12
distraction to that um
48:14
and it feels like that's just so hard to because you just numb
48:18
out basically yeah
48:20
um and it's not fun to be at least for me it's not fun to like
48:25
be quiet like i
48:26
enjoy i enjoy listening to the productivity podcasts and the
48:30
all the content that
48:31
SPEAKER_01: i'm consuming and
48:32
SPEAKER_01: It's not easy being quiet.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I have so many like scary thoughts,
48:38
SPEAKER_00: not in like a terrible way,
48:39
SPEAKER_00: but like in like,
48:40
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
48:40
SPEAKER_00: who am I?
48:41
SPEAKER_00: What am I doing?
48:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, and I don't, a lot of questions that I don't have the answers to.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: That I have to just sit in that discomfort.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: And that sucks.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I want to avoid that.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: Let me just like put a podcast on, on my way to work.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: Now I feel fine.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: Well,
49:00
SPEAKER_00: and it's not like,
49:00
SPEAKER_01: I think that's what's hard is like,
49:02
SPEAKER_01: it's not,
49:03
SPEAKER_01: the podcast isn't like an evil thing inherently.
49:07
SPEAKER_01: Like it's, that's what's, it's just distracting.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: And it's like distracting from what is the focus that, yeah.
49:15
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's a question that I've been asking myself.
49:19
I'm curious to get your thoughts on is like,
49:21
what is present being look like
49:24
SPEAKER_01: like what is being present look like in this season for you?
49:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you feel like you achieve that?
49:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: It's really hard.
49:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm right there with you.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: I think for myself, that is actually something I'm practicing right now.
49:42
My mom's a therapist now officially,
49:46
but she's been learning all these like tools and skills.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that was something she was doing.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's like working on it for
49:54
like 10 years i think she's got her master's at concordia and
49:57
like is officially
49:58
practicing now let's go congrats uh but has always kind of
50:01
given me like some like
50:02
oh hey i just learned about this like when you have a big fear
50:05
or something you can
50:05
like walk it down and like ask these things another thing was
50:08
like this like sense
50:11
of my thoughts run and run and run and i can't slow it down and
50:15
it's like this
50:15
practice of like trying to just be here and you have to like
50:18
name five things you
50:19
can see yeah like okay i see that rock i see that plant i see
50:21
the sand and then
50:22
SPEAKER_00: it's like
50:23
uh four things you can hear like okay like those birds like
50:27
whatever and then like
50:28
smell taste what is it literally just being present in your
50:31
environment and but you
50:33
just work through those senses and then like give yourself 10
50:36
seconds and it's like
50:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm landing here again.
50:40
I don't know where,
50:40
I don't know how I left here,
50:42
but like I'm wandering in my mind quite a bit.
50:45
SPEAKER_00: And then I like find myself here.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's,
50:48
SPEAKER_00: I try to do that,
50:49
especially like when I'm like home with my kids after work is
50:52
the hardest because
50:53
SPEAKER_00: all day I've been spinning and it's been good that I was spinning.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: Cause I've been productive and handling things.
50:58
And then I come home and I just have to like listen to three
51:01
voices at once about
51:02
SPEAKER_00: things that I can't,
51:04
SPEAKER_00: sometimes can't hear it.
51:06
SPEAKER_00: So deeply.
51:08
touching a piece of my soul like i i yeah i get so this is
51:13
awful but i get so bored
51:14
yes like hanging out with my almost two-year-old like yeah i'm
51:19
just like man put me
51:20
back in like the fire of whatever problem i was solving like
51:24
three hours ago it's
51:25
like yeah sitting here like coloring which is like it is
51:31
coloring but like it's not
51:32
my definition of color it's just like scribbling a lot like i
51:35
don't know it's it's
51:36
SPEAKER_01: tough for me to be in that
51:38
SPEAKER_00: It does get a lot easier.
51:39
SPEAKER_00: I'd say like two years old.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:41
SPEAKER_00: It's probably difficult.
51:44
SPEAKER_00: Four years old better.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: Like I have like a 12 year old and a seven year old.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: So like when we hang out, we can hang out.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: Which is really fun.
51:51
But I think I just like it's that jarring transition of coming
51:54
home after work and
51:56
SPEAKER_00: trying to be present,
51:57
SPEAKER_00: trying to listen and respond.
51:59
SPEAKER_00: and like not let my mind just drift back to like all the problems,
52:03
SPEAKER_00: like real problems that I have and I have to deal with the next day.
52:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:06
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to just like switch that up.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: And like, here's somebody, but that practice has helped.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: That's why I mentioned it.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: I'll just be there.
52:12
SPEAKER_00: I'll not be hearing them and I'll just go, okay.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, okay.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: He's got a blue shirt on.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: We're on the couch.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: There's the dog.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm hearing this.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: And like, it will help my, my focus return.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: That's been, okay.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: That's been really helpful.
52:24
SPEAKER_01: Rad.
52:26
SPEAKER_01: All right, well, I'll try to land the plane here.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, did we get to your question?
52:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, yeah.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: This has been...
52:34
SPEAKER_01: I think my hope is to have,
52:37
SPEAKER_01: like,
52:37
SPEAKER_01: some sort of structure and then,
52:38
SPEAKER_01: like,
52:39
SPEAKER_01: do exactly what we're doing.
52:40
SPEAKER_01: Because I'd much rather,
52:41
SPEAKER_01: like,
52:42
SPEAKER_01: listen well to,
52:43
SPEAKER_01: like,
52:44
SPEAKER_01: where the conversation is going and then,
52:45
SPEAKER_01: like,
52:46
SPEAKER_01: riff off of that than,
52:47
SPEAKER_01: like,
52:48
SPEAKER_01: hit all my questions that are,
52:50
SPEAKER_01: like,
52:50
SPEAKER_01: subpar.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but this is, like...
52:55
SPEAKER_01: What a way to open, you know?
52:56
SPEAKER_00: Is this episode one?
52:58
SPEAKER_01: Technically, this is episode two.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: Did you ever meet this guy?
53:02
SPEAKER_01: His name's Alvin.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: He's like sort of in the Barnabas community.
53:07
SPEAKER_01: He's from... Oh my gosh, I'm going to mess it up.
53:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm not even going to say it because I'm going to mess it up.
53:15
SPEAKER_01: Cool guy.
53:16
SPEAKER_01: Super amazing dude.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: But I went to Biola with him.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: And one day...
53:22
like very much like a kind of an action oriented person like
53:26
you are um where it's
53:28
like dude let's let's make this happen and i was talking to him
53:31
about this idea and
53:32
he was like cool like tomorrow do you want to meet and we'll
53:35
we'll do this and so
53:36
like he wants to do something with that too and so we recorded
53:40
one like uh i don't
53:42
know like three months ago or something so it's like it's been
53:45
a while but good um
53:47
SPEAKER_01: i like really want to make this a practice of
53:50
um something i'm doing regularly like my creative output i want
53:53
this to be that
53:54
SPEAKER_01: right now um yeah because it's just so life-giving to me to have these
53:59
conversations yeah um all righty if you could ask one question
54:05
of our next guest
54:07
SPEAKER_01: what would it be?
54:08
SPEAKER_01: Who's your next guest?
54:09
SPEAKER_01: That's what I'd ask.
54:13
The whole idea is that you don't know,
54:14
but it's a question maybe you've been wrestling with.
54:18
I stole this question from this podcast that I listened to
54:20
called Diary of a CEO.
54:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
54:23
Yeah,
54:23
there's a lot of stuff that's good in that and then a lot of
54:25
stuff in like,
54:26
eh.
54:26
SPEAKER_01: But I love how he ends the podcast.
54:29
He always asks this question and then like the previous guest
54:32
will ask a question
54:33
SPEAKER_01: of the present guest.
54:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:35
And then you always get like interesting questions and then,
54:38
I don't know,
54:39
it's kind of fun.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:41
SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite questions is just to ask,
54:44
SPEAKER_00: what has been a really big challenge in your life that you've overcome?
54:49
SPEAKER_00: What's been something that's really hard that you've gone through?
54:52
SPEAKER_00: That's such a good question.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: But I want it to be the answer that you've overcome.
54:57
SPEAKER_00: Let's not talk about the challenges you have right now on your plate.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Give me a good story of like, dude, I thought this was hard.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: I thought this was the end.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: And here's what happened.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: That's an amazing question.
55:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel like you get to know people
55:12
well with that question like that's a good depth question yeah
55:18
dang that's good I'm
55:19
excited to see whoever answers that next and then for you the
55:24
question from our
55:25
previous guest what's one thing that isn't as important as you
55:30
thought it was about
55:31
being a dad and one thing that is more important than you
55:35
thought it was before you
55:37
SPEAKER_01: had kids
55:40
oh yeah yeah i mean the easy answer to that is like having
55:43
answers is not important
55:46
i thought it was and i worried about it you know the actually
55:52
the first thought was
55:53
like i was a young dad i was 19 when i became a dad and like i
55:58
was still figuring
55:59
out my faith and where i stood and so once we were pregnant it
56:02
was like this like
56:03
SPEAKER_00: oh my gosh i'm gonna have to like
56:06
SPEAKER_00: almost like tell this new person, like how the world is.
56:10
SPEAKER_00: And I really need to figure out how the world is.
56:12
SPEAKER_00: I need to know what's true and what's not true.
56:14
SPEAKER_00: And like, do I really believe this?
56:15
SPEAKER_00: And like, how do I like, how does this form my life?
56:17
SPEAKER_00: And what's the best way to live?
56:19
SPEAKER_00: And like all these things.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: And then that just kept going to all the, a million things.
56:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it was good to have those conversations, uh, not needed.
56:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm a dad.
56:28
SPEAKER_00: I have three kids, one 12, not needed.
56:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:31
SPEAKER_00: Knowing the answers, super overrated, uh, being present, uh,
56:36
SPEAKER_00: And having fun is maybe the most valuable thing I can do as a dad.
56:40
SPEAKER_00: I had no idea tossing my kids on the
56:43
bed is maybe the most important thing i can do with them like
56:46
we've just uh verena
56:48
just discovered that and she's like so into it dude by the way
56:52
there's science that
56:53
like backs that up yeah there's like weird like katie was
56:56
telling me like it's
56:56
actually helps their brain to develop like toss them around
57:00
yeah and it's my
57:01
SPEAKER_00: instinct is too like i love this kid i like yeah the dad yeah exactly
57:07
and they laugh it's great they love it yeah and they love it
57:11
and a tip on that or
57:12
like i don't know who told me this but like someone said like
57:15
the kids only need
57:16
like a couple minutes of connection like every day like that's
57:20
all they need and
57:21
they feel like different about it and so when i have when when
57:24
my kid asks me
57:25
something and they always ask me something all the time
57:27
throughout the day anytime
57:28
uh my i'm trying to make my auto response is yes and and
57:32
quickly like or yes and
57:34
like for a short period of time hey will you like throw me on
57:36
the bed hey will you
57:37
play this game with me hey will you do this like yes let's do
57:40
five minutes like yes
57:42
it's always yes but i don't have to like commit a whole hour oh
57:45
that's so good but
57:46
then it's like oh cool i can like jump in and like okay let's
57:48
play for a second
57:49
okay all right i have to i'm doing this thing so i can't do it
57:51
but like that that's
57:53
SPEAKER_00: been huge because
57:54
SPEAKER_00: Just like, yeah, you have 30 seconds.
57:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, rather than like, no, no, no.
57:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm busy right now.
57:59
SPEAKER_01: Can't you see what I'm doing is more important than you.
58:02
SPEAKER_00: Or once I have time or once we'll have an hour and it's like,
58:04
SPEAKER_00: you know,
58:05
SPEAKER_00: you'll never have an hour.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: Give them 30 seconds right now.
58:07
SPEAKER_00: Especially with three kids and a dog.
58:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
58:11
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, having fun is underrated, baby.
58:13
SPEAKER_01: Dude, that's an amazing answer.
58:16
SPEAKER_01: And what's cool is that the last...
58:20
SPEAKER_01: I'll say it anyway,
58:21
SPEAKER_01: but the last guest,
58:22
SPEAKER_01: Alvin,
58:23
SPEAKER_01: the first episode,
58:24
SPEAKER_01: he just became a dad like a week ago.
58:28
And so like he was asking that question as like someone who was
58:33
about to jump into
58:34
SPEAKER_01: this crazy journey.
58:35
SPEAKER_01: And so that's incredible advice.
58:39
SPEAKER_01: And now we know at least one more person is going to listen to this.
58:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:43
SPEAKER_01: Shout out.
58:43
SPEAKER_01: Good luck.
58:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for taking the time, my friend.
58:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm so, so grateful for you.
58:50
SPEAKER_01: And I love you.
58:51
SPEAKER_01: And I'm,
58:52
SPEAKER_01: yeah,
58:52
just thanks for taking the time to answer these questions and
58:54
support me as a
58:56
SPEAKER_01: creative and a husband and a dad.
58:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
58:59
SPEAKER_01: I love doing life alongside of you.
59:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm always grateful for your conversations, man.