Latest / Pod Save America / Supreme Malarkey

Transcript

Supreme Malarkey · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Donald Trump can't stop incriminating himself after
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: he's caught on tape talking about classified war plans. The
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court rules against affirmative action. Joe Biden delivers a
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: major speech on Bidenomics. And White House Communications Director Ben
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: LeBolt stops by to talk about the strategy behind it. Then,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: the on-again, off-again bromance between Trump and Kevin McCarthy has
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: hit the skids once more. But first, pre-sale tickets for
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America live shows in D.C. and New Orleans
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: are available now. And you know what, Dan? They're going fast.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Are they?
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Are they?
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they are. That's what it says here. Pre-sale codes
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: are only available to members of our subscription community, Friends
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: of the Pod, where you can also access exclusive bonus
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: content like our Terminally Online pod. Dan and I had
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: a very fun time recording with Priyanka and Elijah yesterday.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: We also have a fun Discord channel where all the
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Friends of the Pod hang out and yell about the news.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: That's a lot of fun. And there's a lot more content.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: So sign up. It's crooked.com slash friends. And again, the
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: presale for the live shows ends at 1159 p.m. on
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: June 29th. So go get that code. Sign up. Get
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: those tickets. All right, let's get to the news. Moments
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: after we recorded Tuesday's pod, there was, as always, some
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: breaking news. CNN obtained the audio recording of the 2021
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: meeting in Bedminster, New Jersey. where Donald Trump tells a
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: few random ghostwriters to look at highly classified war plans
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: that he admits he couldn't declassify. Let's listen.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: These are bad, sick people. That was your coup, you know,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: against you. Well, it started right at that point. Like
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: when Milley's talking about, oh, you were going to try
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: to do a coup. No, they were trying to do
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: that before you even were sworn in. That's right. Trying
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: to overthrow your election. Well, with Milley, let me see that.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: I'll show you an example.
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: He said.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: that I wanted to attack Iran.
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: Isn't it amazing?
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: I have a big pile of papers.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: This thing just came up.
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: Look.
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: This was him.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: They presented me this. This is off the record, but
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: they presented me this.
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: This was him.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: This was the Defense Department and him.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: We looked at some. This was him.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: This wasn't done by me.
• 2:45
  Speaker 6: This was him.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: All sorts of stuff.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: It's pages long.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Look.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: Wait a minute, let's see.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Here. I just found, isn't that amazing? This totally wins
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: my case, you know. Except it is like highly confidential, secret.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: This is secret information.
• 3:07
  Speaker 5: Look at this.
• 3:08
  Speaker 6: You attack.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: Hillary would print that out all the time, you know.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: She'd send it to Anthony Weiner, the pervert. Please print.
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: By the way, isn't that incredible?
• 3:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: I was just saying, because we were talking about it.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: And he said, he wanted to attack Iran. He's in
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: the papers. This was done by the military, given to me.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: I think we can probably, yeah? We'll have to see.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: We'll have to try to figure out. See, as president,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I could have de-classified.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: Now I can't.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: But this is de-classified. Now we have a problem.
• 3:47
  Speaker 6: Isn't that interesting?
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: It's so cool.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: And you probably almost didn't believe me, but now you
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: believe me.
• 3:56
  Speaker 6: No, I believe you.
• 3:56
  Speaker 7: It's incredible, right?
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Hey, bring some Cokes in, please. Bring some Cokes in, please.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: It's so awesome listening to it.
• 4:08
  Speaker 6: Every time.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Every time it's great.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: It surpassed all expectations. I was reading about it. I'm like, well,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: we finally hear the audio. What's that going to do?
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: You know what? It's worth it. To quote Donald Trump,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: do you think that totally wins his case?
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: This is one of those examples where sometimes the movie
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: is better than the book because it is so good.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: There are so many good parts of this. My favorite
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: may be when one of the women speaking feels the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: need to clarify that the coup she is referring to
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: is not the coup he did. It was the fake
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: coup against him. She's like, this is a coup. The
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: coup against you. It's so good. It's honestly– Perfect. He
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: goes out of his way to admit to all the crimes.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Out of his way so many times. He says so many,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: like if there was, he erases any doubt just in the,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Look at this. I just found this. This was him.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: This was the Defense Department. Hillary would print out stuff
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: like this all the time. It's classified. It's secret. It's
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: off the record. I could have declassified it before, but
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: now I didn't. Look at my secret war plans that
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: you're not supposed to see. I mean, it's just... Now, Dan,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: you might be thinking, uh-huh, I'd like to see Trump
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: wriggle his way out of this one. Well, unfortunately for us,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: He used his persuasive powers and command of details to
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: put on a master class in crisis communication when he
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: was asked about this.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: You're not concerned then with your own voice on those recordings?
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: My voice was fine. What did I say wrong in
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: those recordings? I didn't even see the recording. All I
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: know is I did nothing wrong. We had a lot
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: of papers, a lot of papers stacked up. In fact,
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: you could hear the rustle of the paper and nobody
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: said I did anything wrong. other than the fake news,
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: which of course is Fox too.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Are there any other recordings that we should be concerned of?
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: I don't know of any recordings that you should be
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: concerned with because I don't do things wrong. I do
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: things right. I'm a legitimate person.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: He is a legitimate person. There is no one more
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: legitimate than him. He then took another swing at this
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: during an interview aboard his plane with ABC and Semaphore.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: He said, quote, I would say it was bravado. If
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: you want to know the truth, it was bravado. I
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: was talking and just holding up papers and talking about them,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: but I had no documents. What do you think? Will
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: any of these compelling explanations work on a jury?
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: While it is almost certainly a boldface lie. Donald Trump's
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: claim that this was bravado might be the most authentically
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: honest thing he's ever said because there is truly nothing
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: more Donald Trump and frankly believable than the idea that
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump would lie to make some people, particularly women,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: think he was more important than he was. Like that
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: is a believable thing.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: There's a gigantic caveat here that we're about to get to.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying as a point, he is a man
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: who is driven by a bottomless well of insecurity. And
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: that is what someone like that would do. He is
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: a man who has a fake Time Man of the
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Year cover in his office to make people think he
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: was Time Man of the Year. This is something he
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: could possibly do. But we can get to the but,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: if you will.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say this would absolutely be his,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: the best defense he has trotted out yet. Were it
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: not for what you hear in the tape, what you
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: hear on the tape, right? Which is, he's like, yeah,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I had some papers that are rustling around. He did not,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: he did not say on that tape, I have a
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: paper here that shows whatever, right? He said, look at this,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: look at this paper. So and then later he said, oh,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: he also said in the semaphore interview, it was they said, oh,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: you said it was plans. You said it was you
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: said it was plans. And he said, did I say plans?
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: That's it's not war plans. It was building plans. So
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: we are now to believe that during that meeting, Donald
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Trump had some papers that he told us were rustling.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: You could hear the papers and that what he did
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: was he showed the two ghostwriters building plans for. but
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: pretended that it was classified war plans, and they were like, yeah, yeah, no,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: we believe you now. And he also told them, by
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: the way, this is secret, this is classified, I could
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: have declassified it, but really, it's just a bunch of
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: building plans and some other papers.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: And I think you're leaving out the punchline to this,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: which is building plans for a golf course. What's that?
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: You know what? I fooled all these people. I told
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: them it's bravado and I like to lie a lot,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: so I told them it was war plans, but honestly,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: it was just golf course plans and these fucking idiots. Also,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: do we think that Jack Smith has built his entire
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: case just on the audio recording that he hasn't interviewed
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: the two ghostwriters? Because when Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: or whoever she wrote the story with in the New
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: York Times reached out to Those two writers, they didn't respond,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: which probably is because they're fucking witnesses.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: There's also another part of this that is really interesting,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: which is he must just have them sitting on his desk.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: It's not like he went and got them in a box.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: He was doing an interview. There's no reason why he
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: brought this plan to the media. He took it out
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: of the box in whatever locked door bathroom where he
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: was keeping it. It came up in conversation and he
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: found it in a pile on his desk. Hence the
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: rustling of paper.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Well, probably. he had taken it out because Susan Glasser
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: of The New Yorker had recently written the piece about
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Milley saying that he was worried that Trump was going
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: to start a war in Iran and And so when
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: he got that piece, I'm sure he said, ah, I
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: have a secret classified document that I stole from the
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: White House and kept in defiance of a federal subpoena.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: And it's over here in my box that I bring
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: everywhere with me because I know that there are classified
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: documents that I'm not supposed to have in those boxes.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: So yeah, he probably had it at the ready.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: There is one interesting little footnote here, which is CNN
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: reported that the Iran war plans are not listed in
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: the documents list. in the indictment that Donald Trump was
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: accused of keeping from the government. But, and so that's
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: been seen a lot. Aha, this proves Trump's right. That
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: is not the case because Jack Smith did not charge
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Trump for any of the documents he gave over after
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: months and months of trying to get them. So it's
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: very possible that he turned this particular document over, but
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: that does not excuse him for showing a classified document
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: to someone who doesn't have security clearance before he handed
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: it over. So just the fact that it's not in
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: the indictment does not mean that that document was not
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: in Trump's possession.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Well, he also, I mean, they didn't charge Trump with
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: dissemination of classified information. And it might not be. So
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the New York Times also says that the government, Jack Smith,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: views this piece of evidence as among their strongest pieces
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: of evidence in their case. Maybe because it pretty clearly
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: shows intent and it shows knowledge that Trump knew about
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: that he didn't have the power to declassify, knew that
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: he held on to secret information that he wasn't supposed
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: to have. And so even if you use that evidence
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: to tell a jury what his state of mind was
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: on all of the other shit that he had that
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: he was charged with, it seems like a pretty strong
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: piece of evidence. We also got some new details about
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: the Bedminster crime scene from both that Times piece and
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: a Washington Post piece that ran this week. Jack Smith's
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: team initially wanted to search Bedminster. but didn't think they
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: had enough evidence to get a warrant. They did, however,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: successfully subpoena surveillance footage from Bedminster. So again, Trump's bravado.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: We're going to see if that holds up once we
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: see the surveillance footage. They have reportedly asked witnesses a
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: lot of questions about the war plan incident. And of course,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: they view it as one of their strongest pieces of evidence.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: So it does sound, you know, doesn't sound too good
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: for Trump.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: No, doesn't seem that way.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Also not good is Jack Smith just apparently interviewed Rudy
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Giuliani about trying to overturn the election and is reportedly
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: close to charging decisions in that investigation. You seen any
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: good legal news for Donald Trump lately?
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: No, I have not. I've looked.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: It is not.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: It is not there.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Jack Smith has also asked Judge Cannon to move the
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: trial to December and Trump has until the 6th, July
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: 6th to respond. which, you know, some legal analysts are
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: saying is sort of a shrewd move because by Jack
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Smith offering to move it ahead, it makes it harder
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: for Trump to delay even further than that. The judge
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: in the hush money case seems inclined to reject Trump's
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: request to move that trial to federal court from state court.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: So he's not doing well there. And we also learned
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: that the person he showed the classified war map to,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: that's different than the war plans. That's the map of
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: the war that wasn't going very well. and he showed
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: it to a PAC representative, that was Susie Wiles, who's
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: currently his top campaign aide. So that makes things a
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: little tricky as well.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it technically means, according to the rules put down
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: by Judge Cannon, that Donald Trump and his campaign, essentially
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: as a campaign manager, cannot talk about the case because
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: she is now a witness in the case.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's tough. That's tough. And on the Rudy stuff,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of the legal analysts are saying that this
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: was a proffer session, which is a chance for a
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: witness or a subject who voluntarily tell prosecutors what they'd
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: say if subpoenaed, knowing that what they say can't be
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: used against them unless they lie. So prosecutors could have
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: asked Rudy to come in or Rudy's lawyers could have
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: offered to have him come in because they're afraid he
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: might get charged. And they either want to avoid charges
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: or they want to cooperate to reduce the sentence. So,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: you know, we could have Rudy flipping. as well, which
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: would be funny.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: I can't wait till that happens around 2 p.m. on
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: a Thursday, one week in our future.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Could be happening right now.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: While we're making good use of our fake legal degrees,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: let's talk about the Supreme Court's final week of big
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: rulings before their term ends. We will start with the
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: bad news. This morning in a 6-3 ruling, the court
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: struck down affirmative action programs at Harvard and the University
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: of North Carolina as unconstitutional. Chief Justice Roberts writing for
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the majority. did say that colleges can consider how race
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: has affected an applicant's life, but that students, quote, must
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: be treated based on his or her experiences as an individual,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: not on the basis of race. Justices Jackson and Sotomayor
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: each wrote dissents, with Jackson arguing that, quote, deeming race
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: irrelevant in law does not make it so in life.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: And Sotomayor saying, quote, the devastating impact of this decision
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: cannot be overstated. There is plenty of evidence to support
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: her claim. In the nine states that have already banned
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the use of race-conscious admissions at their public universities, the
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: share of Black and Latino students has dropped. President Biden
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: spoke out on the decision this morning. Here he is.
• 15:38
  Speaker 5: We cannot let this decision be the last word. I
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: want to emphasize, we cannot let this decision be the
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: last word. While the court can render a decision, it
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: cannot change what America stands for. America is an idea,
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: an idea unique in the world. an idea of hope
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: and opportunity, of possibilities, of giving everyone a fair shot,
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: of leaving no one behind. We've never fully lived up
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: to it, but we've never walked away from it either.
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: We will not walk away from it now. So today
• 16:08
  Speaker 5: I want to offer some guidance to our nation's colleges
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: as they review their admission systems after today's decision. Guidance
• 16:16
  Speaker 5: that is consistent with today's decision. They should not abandon,
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: let me say this again, they should not abandon their
• 16:22
  Speaker 5: commitment to ensure student bodies of diverse backgrounds and experience
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: that reflect all of America. What I propose for consideration
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: is a new standard where colleges take into account the
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: adversity a student has overcome when selecting among qualified applicants.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: So not surprising from this court, but still infuriating. Where
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: does this go from here? You know, President also said
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: he's directing... the Department of Education to assess what factors
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: are contributing to more diversity at colleges and what factors
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: are holding back diversity at colleges. And he also mentioned
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: legacy admissions, which, of course, the court did not say
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: anything about. Alumni who went there, their kids, donors who
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: gave money to the college, their kids, right? The court
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: didn't say anything about preferences there. So Biden did direct
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: the Department of Education. to, you know, assess those factors.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: But where do you think this goes from here? And
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: what's your overall thought on this?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're exactly right. It is infuriating, if not unexpected.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: I thought Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's dissent summarized exactly how
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: absurd this ruling is. It is a ruling of a
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: court being willfully ignorant about America's past and present. And
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: to your point, this is going to have a very
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: real impact. In the states that have banned it, it
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: has gone down, and precipitously. Michigan banned using race in
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: college admissions in 2006. The percentage of black students at
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the University of Michigan has been cut nearly in half
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: since 2006. That is a huge deal. It's going to
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: have a huge impact.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: And by the way, it was cut in half from
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: 9% to 4%. So it wasn't that great to begin with.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: And we were already underperforming massively, even with the previous
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: regime in place. What this is going to mean and
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: how colleges are going to do this, because there is
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: still– many colleges will continue to seek out a diverse
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: student body as they have been doing. How that happens
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: is going to be very different. What is this going
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: to mean for standardized testing? Will that go away? How
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: is this going to affect the admissions process in general
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: in terms of interviews and essays and all of that?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: But there is no question that this is a huge
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: step backwards on the path to try to make America better.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: more equitable. It's going to have a real impact on
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: real people's lives.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: The president of Harvard was out with this statement in response,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: and he noted that the part of the opinion that
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: said that they could still take into account essays in
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: which applicants discuss how race had affected their lives and
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: said that they would be figuring out how to preserve
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: their values that place importance on diversity of backgrounds, perspectives,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: and lived experiences. We should also note, and hat tip
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: to- Melissa Murray for noting this on Twitter, that this
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: sort of tiny carve out in the ruling about, oh,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: you know, colleges can still consider in essays sort of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: individuals' experiences with race was likely the result of questions
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: that Katonji Brown-Jackson, Justice Katonji Brown-Jackson asked during oral arguments
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: when she was like, so kids can talk about how
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: They're the fifth generation to attend UNC, but they're not
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: supposed to talk about racial discrimination in their life. And
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: it was a powerful enough point. that it ended up
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: in the majority opinion. So thank goodness for Katanji Byrne-Jackson.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: And on that, the very specific question she asked was,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: someone could say they had been a five-term legacy, five generations.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: But someone else couldn't point out that they couldn't be
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: a five-term legacy because previous generations of the family were
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: not allowed to attend that school because of segregation. And
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: that really flummoxed all the people making the argument. Like
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: it was one of those, made it very clear that
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: she had narrowed in on the exact flaw in the argument.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: And that has given, based on Melissa's interpretation here, room
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: for something that may be not positive enough compared to
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: previous status quo, but a way that allows some students
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: to still get access to higher education.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and looking around just on Twitter since the ruling,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of statements from a lot of colleges saying like,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: this is not going to deter us in our mission
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: to make the student, yeah, these are all words, of course,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: we got to see what happens. But, you know, hopefully
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: we can imagine scenarios where colleges develop admissions programs standards
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: that exactly, while not as, as, uh, robust in, uh,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: making sure that student bodies are more diverse than it
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: was before this ruling, at least still continues that mission.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: I noted with some irony that, uh, I got an
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: email from Holy Cross, uh, where I went to college
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: and where, uh, Clarence Thomas graduated from college and, uh,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the new president of Holy Cross, first black president of
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Holy Cross said that, uh, He was very much opposed
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: to the decision and that the college would not be
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: deterred from their mission to make sure that the student
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: body is diverse. So we'll see what can happen there.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: But not a great ruling. Not a great ruling at all.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: But we did get some good news from the court
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: earlier in the week when Roberts also wrote a 6-3
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: opinion rejecting what's known as the independent state legislature theory,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: which essentially argues that state courts don't have the authority
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: to review voting or election laws passed by state legislatures. Dan,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: there have been differing views from various legal experts on
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: just how good this news is. What do you think?
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Did John Roberts save democracy once again?
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: This ruling is way better than it could have been.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Had they adopted this radical interpretation of the independent state
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: legislature theory, what it would mean is twofold. One, Theoretically,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: a state Supreme Court, like in Wisconsin, could not rule
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: on an alternate slate of electors passed by the state legislature.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: The state legislature decided to reject the results of the
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: popular vote. That can happen. The state Supreme Court cannot
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: weigh in on voting suppression laws like voter ID or
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: poll taxes or any of the other things that had
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: previously been subject to constitutional and judicial review. But also–
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: In a Supreme Court case of a few years ago,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: the Supreme Court said that the Supreme Court had no
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: role in rendering judgment on partisan gerrymandering. Racial gerrymandering could
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: still be judged by the court, as they just had
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: in a relatively positive decision pretty recently. But if you
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: stack the deck all wrong party lines, not racial lines,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: that was up to the state to figure out. The
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: whole point of this case was that a Republican supermajority
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: in North Carolina redrew the districts in a completely absurd
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: and ridiculous way. The state Supreme Court ruled that it
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: was unconstitutional, violating a whole host of equal protection rules,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: and then they sued saying they could not do that. Now, ironically,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: we have since lost the majority of the Supreme Court
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: in North Carolina, and now that Supreme Court is undoing
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: all the good that was done. And had they passed
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: the independent state legislature, that would have stopped that. But
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: this is protecting a rule of state supreme court that's
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: going to matter in 2024 and beyond. The dangerous part
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: here is what essentially John Roberts did, and Rick Hasson,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: law professor at University of Berkeley, pointed this out, is
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: that what they've essentially done is codified some of the
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: footnotes from the Bush v. Gore decision, which will give
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: the Supreme Court more aggressive judicial review in federal election
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: cases that occur at the state level. And so there
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: is a potential for, and just a potential, and this
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: is better than the alternative, but a potential for them
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: to be more involved in overruling state Supreme Courts like
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: they did in the Bush v. Gore case that stopped
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: the recount in the middle of Al Gore trying to
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: determine who actually won Florida.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: That was a very good summary, Dan, of what happened here.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: So I, as I always do, listen to the brilliant
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: strict scrutiny episode on this ruling. I believe they are
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: also recording one on the affirmative action ruling that will
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: be out very soon as well. So you should listen
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: to both of those. Having listened to that, having read
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Rick Hassan's piece and a bunch of other pieces, I
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: think You're right. There is there's clearly the potential for
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court to get involved down the road. I
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: think that potential was always there. Like the majority said
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: here that. So basically it is it was so it
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: was so ridiculous to put forward a theory that state
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: legislatures could do whatever they wanted. without any kind of
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: judicial review whatsoever. To say that that is like antithetical
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: to the U.S. Constitution to like 200 and something years,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: it's just, it's wild. It's wild. So basically the majority
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: said that, yes, of course state courts have a role
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: in reviewing what the state legislature does and interpreting the
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: state constitution.
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: Of course.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: But they do not have free reign to rewrite election
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: laws from scratch. And so basically there may be instances
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: where the state courts are so wrong in interpreting state
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: legislatures and state constitutions that federal courts, including the Supreme Court,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: have to step in. And like, I tried to put
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: out of my head what, like, whether the Supreme Court
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: is in its current form a very right-wing Supreme Court
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: or a liberal court, whether state courts in question are
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: liberal or conservative, like, I don't think you would want
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: a state court to be all powerful just as you
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: wouldn't want a state legislature to be all powerful. You
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: would want some option for federal review of a state
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: court's decision. Like just from a pure partisan perspective, if
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: there was a state legislature that was like a MAGA
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: legislature and then there was a MAGA state court, basically
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: like there is in North Carolina now, and they trampled
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: all over the rights of voters... And also the state
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: court decided, yeah, you can have new electors there. You
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: can just basically send your own electors. Wouldn't we want
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: a federal court to step in at that point? Probably.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know, John, were you a 24-year-old standing in
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Palm Beach County when the Supreme Court ruled in Bush v.
• 27:05
  Speaker 7: Gore? I was.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Right, but what I'm saying here is that all of
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: this goes back to like, we just got to have
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the right people on the right courts.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's 100% right.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: You can't say like, well, I want the state courts
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: to have all the power because right now we have
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: a right-wing Supreme Court. But if we change that Supreme
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: Court and then we have suddenly a MAGA Supreme Court,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: then I'd want the U.S. Supreme Court to have all
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the power.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: The issue here, as I understand it, is, and I
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: agree with you, like there are three options here. There
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: is terrible, there is this, and there is slightly better
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: than this. And we ended up in the middle, which
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: is basically all we can fucking hope for these days
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: with the Supreme Court. So I'm not saying this is not,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying this is the end of the world.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying there's some secret plan to take down
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: the election. or anything like that. No one thought in
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: 2000 that the Supreme Court was going to weigh in
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: on that election because there had been no previous precedent
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: for the Supreme Court to get involved in a state
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: election matter like that. They basically created a new legal
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: doctrine for the sole purpose of stopping the recount and
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: giving the election to Bush. Now, would Bush have won anyway?
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Who the hell knows? But they went out of their
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: way to do it. And then they went out of
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: their way to basically say that was a one-off. It
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: was only in some footnotes that they adopted– one of
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: those footnotes is where the independent state legislature theory comes from.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: And then in this case, the far right, the people
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: who brought the case, took the most radical interpretation of
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: that original independent state legislature theory. What this does is
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: it's going to make it easy– you're not going to
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: have to invent a new legal doctrine to weigh in here. Now,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: does that mean they wouldn't have done it anyway? Maybe
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: they probably would have because– They did it in 2000.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: They could do it again. So I just– this is
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: not to say– to panic, to say there is like
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: a secret time bomb here or anything like that. But
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: there is a reality that a repeat of Bush v.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Gore is at least slightly more likely because of the
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: way this decision was decided with a 6-3 majority including
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: appointees from Democratic presidents.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: And also, no surprise, again, because Kavanaugh and Barrett were
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: involved– In bringing the case to the court in 2000.
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: On the bad side. So no shocker there. But as
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Clarence Thomas criticized the majority and his dissenting opinion on this,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: he was like, you didn't, there is no standard now
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: of when the federal courts or the Supreme Court should
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: weigh in. And you guys didn't set a standard in
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: this majority opinion. So it's sort of up to a
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: case-by-case basis here.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Which it was before.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Which I think is, which is, yeah, that's why I
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: feel like it seems more status quo than not. What
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: does this mean for 2024? So this was mostly about
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: the elections clause, not the electors clause. There are two
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: different clauses in the constitution, but the language in the
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: two cases is basically identical. And so it does seem
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: like If a state legislature, after the fact, decided to
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: just send in a new slate of electors, like Trump
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: wanted them to do in 2020, it seems like from
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: this ruling, the Supreme Court would say, like, of course
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: the state Supreme Court could say that is blatantly unconstitutional
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: based on the state constitution, which in a lot of
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: these states says you can't change the law after the
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: election happens and suddenly decide to send fake electors. So
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: that's good news.
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Take the wins where you can get them.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: That's good news.
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Let's talk again about President Biden. He spoke this morning
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: on the Supreme Court ruling. He also delivered a major
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: economic speech in Chicago yesterday where he compared Republican trickle
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: down economics with what the White House is calling Bidenomics.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Let's listen.
• 30:48
  Speaker 6: Guess what?
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Bidenomics is working.
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: When I took office, the pandemic was raging and our
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: economy was reeling. Supply chains were broken. Millions of people unemployed.
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: Hundreds of thousands of small businesses on the verge of
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: closing after so many had already closed. Literally hundreds of
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: thousands on the verge of closing.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Today, the U.S.
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: Has the highest economic growth rate leading the world economies
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: since the pandemic, the highest in the world. Now Republicans
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: are at it again, pushing tax cuts for large corporations
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: and the wealthy and adding trillions of dollars to the deficit.
• 31:24
  Speaker 6: Trillions.
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: Folks, let me say it as clearly as I can.
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: The trickle-down approach failed the middle class.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: It failed America.
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: Bidenomics is about the future. Bidenomics is just another way
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: of saying it. restore the American dream because it worked before.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: What'd you think of the speech? It was good.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I liked it. It's a, it is the, his best
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: to date distillation of not just his economic accomplishments, but
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: what they say about what he would do in a
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: second term.
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I think that they framed the accomplishments in the context
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: of here's our theory. Here's our approach to the economy.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: It's working. Not it has worked. It is working. And
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: it is a lot more effective than the other side,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: than Republicans. And that to me is a much more
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: useful and effective message than just look at all the
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: good stuff we did. Maybe the economy is better than
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: you think it is. I think we haven't focused on
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: this yet, but it was really smart, I think, how
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: he hit the tax cuts really hard. That like trickle
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: down economics is Republicans wanting tax cuts for the rich
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: versus Republicans Biden's policies, which are focused on better jobs
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: and lower costs. The winner of the election will decide
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: what happens to the Trump tax cuts, which expire at
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: the end of the year. And basically Biden hit the
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Republicans in the speech for wanting to pay $ 2 trillion
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: to keep in place tax cuts that mostly benefit the
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: rich when we could be spending that money on, you know,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: lower health care costs, lower education costs, investment in infrastructure, right?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: And so that is a great fight to have. It's
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: a fight with real consequences because you can tell people
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: whoever wins after the election, this is a choice. Do
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: you want more tax cuts for rich people or do
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: you want investments in the middle class? So I think
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: that I like that they framed it like this.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Would you say that there's a fiscal cliff coming?
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Wow. That's a callback.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it does speak to an ability to
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: repeat the strategy of 2012 because the Bush tax cuts,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: in part because they were extended by a bipartisan deal
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: cut with Obama and McConnell in 2010, but the Bush
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: tax cuts expired after the 2012 election. And a big
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: fight in that election was, what are you going to
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: do with those tax cuts? Romney wanted to extend all
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: the ones for the rich people. Obama wanted to keep
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: the ones for the middle class and the ones for
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: rich folks. And that was a very advantageous issue environment
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: for Obama. And Biden is going to get to repeat
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: that play against whoever the Republican nominee is.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: And by the way, if you give voters a choice
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: between tax cuts for the rich or the child's tax credit,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: tax cuts for the rich or lower prescription drug costs,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: tax cuts for the rich or privatizing Social Security and Medicare,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: which is what Republicans want to do, the numbers are wild.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: They will choose... The investments over the tax cuts for
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: the rich every single time by a margin of like,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I just saw a Navigator poll this morning. I think
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: it was like 75% were against the tax cuts for
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the rich, including like 70 something percent of Republicans. It
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: is a very good issue for Democrats.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: It is one of those issues that divides the Republican
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: base because in all the polling we've seen on various
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Biden initiatives, particularly when he was trying to raise a
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: bunch of taxes on the rich as part of the
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: original Build Back Better plan. Working class Republicans, Republicans who
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: make under a certain income threshold, support those initiatives at
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: a level commensurate with Democrats. That's how that is. And also,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I will just note that comparing child tax credit and
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: tax cuts for corporations or investments in X with tax
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: cuts for rich people actually undersells populist sentiment in this country.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: If you ask people, do you want to give tax
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: cuts to the rich or you personally have a root canal,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: most Americans would pick root canal. That is where populism is.
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: And that's why he also emphasized in the speech what
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the administration has done to eliminate junk fees, hotel fees,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: overdraft fees for banks, which are also, you know, some
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: people could argue that they're small. They're a very big
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: deal to a lot of people in this country who
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: have to pay those fees. And so I think that'll
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: be a part of the message going forward. So the
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: White House seems to be more confident in making the
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: case that the economy is doing better and that Joe
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Biden's policies are the reason why. Polling still suggests that
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: people don't quite buy that, though. As you'll hear from
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Ben LeBolt when we talk to him, he cites a
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: poll that most people say their personal financial situation has
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: improved or is improving. What do you think about the
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: argument they're trying to make here about, you know, the
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: economy doing better? Which is, I should say, empirically correct
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: according to all of the data. Inflation is down. Consumer
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: confidence is up. The job market is still churning out jobs.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: There are good jobs. Unemployment is at its lowest. I mean, look,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: all this stuff is right. But as we talked about
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: a million times during the midterms, at that point, people
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: weren't feeling the improvement. Are they feeling it now?
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: They are at least more optimistic about the future. Inflation
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: is down for 11 months in a row. It is
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: particularly down in gas and groceries, the things that hit
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: people the hardest. Biden folks were in an impossible situation
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: throughout 2022. Inflation was such a dominant and very real
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: and painful issue for so many people that they could
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: not talk about all the other stuff because people were
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: so mad about inflation. and gas prices in particular. We're
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: now in a much more nuanced environment. And on top
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: of the polling that Ben cites, earlier this week, the
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: consumer confidence measure came out, and it's its highest level
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: in 17 months. And the consumer confidence measure is probably
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: the best measure of how people really feel about the economy,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: because it indicates what they want to do going forward.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: It correlates with buying homes, buying cars, going on vacation.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: And so if consumer confidence is up, that speaks to
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: a change in the economy. The challenge for President Biden
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: is not just how people feel about the economy, but
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: how they feel about what he is going to do
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: on the economy, because he still is operating at a
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: fairly historic deficit with Republicans in terms of who you
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: trust on the economy, and particularly with Donald Trump. And
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: so this speech, this ensuing public relations campaign, and frankly,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: the entire presidential campaign is going to be an effort
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: to change that dynamic, to undermine what Republicans are for
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: and build trust in the president as an economic steward.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: An economic steward really means who are you going to
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: fight for and what are you going to fight for?
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Because, you know, if you just frame it as how
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: has Biden managed the economy, you're going to get people
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: who are cranky because they don't think the economy is
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: humming along yet. Or you're basically going to ask people
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: to judge based on their own financial situation and how
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: they view the economy. If you make it, do you
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: want this set of policies, this approach or Do you
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: want someone like and probably more effectively, do you want
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: someone like Joe Biden who is fighting hard for the
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: middle class? Or do you want Republicans who, if they win,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: will shower rich people with more tax cuts?
• 38:32
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And if that is the choice, they are going to
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: win that argument. Now, the question is, how do you
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: think Biden's argument, economic argument fits into the larger campaign message? Like,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: should this be the central focus? Should he spend more
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: time on issues like Trump or democracy or abortion like
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: he did in the midterms? We've had this conversation before.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: It's incredibly difficult to get an economic message to break
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: through in a time of Donald Trump and threats to
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: democracy and abortion bans and everything else that are serious
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: threats that we're dealing with. How would you run a
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: campaign where you really want to get that economic message
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: to break through?
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: The economic message is going to be central. When Celinda
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Lake was on this podcast— At one point in a
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: recent interview, she pointed out that no one in modern
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: political history has won the White House without being the
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: person who won the economy in exit polling. And Biden
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: barely snuck that by. He was throwing for most of
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: the campaign and then the— way Trump mishandled the pandemic
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: and the ensuing recession, Biden ticked ahead by a little
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: bit at the end. So he's going to have to
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: do that. And it's worth remembering that as high as
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: turnout was in 2022, it is going to be significantly
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: higher in 2024. There's about 50 million people who voted
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: in more than 50 million people who are going to
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: vote in 2024 who did not vote in November. And
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: those people will tend to be people who are less
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: politically engaged. Therefore, they're going to be less motivated by
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: some of the democracy, Trump, the sort of more process
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: arguments about extremism that were effective in 2022. So how
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: do you do this? I think you make a mistake
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: by doing this from an issue perspective. It's not a recipe.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: We're not making cookies, right? We don't need you know,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: two cups of flour, two cups of democracy, you know,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: two teaspoons of court reform or whatever. You need a
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: narrative about the differences between President Biden and the Republicans,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: most notably Donald Trump, who will serve as the avatar
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: for all Republicans, whether he's the nominee or not, what
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: they're going to fight for, what they stand for. And
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: then each individual issue, whether it's abortion or democracy or
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: the economy is is something that undergirds that larger narrative.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: So you start with narrative and then issues are the
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: supporting parts of that. The economy is going to have
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: to be a huge part of that. I suspect it
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: will be a dominant part of paid advertising because to
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: your point, you can't get the press to cover the
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: economy in ways that are, especially with the diminution of
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: local news, to get people to really understand how the
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: economy is doing. So you're going to have to pay
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: to do that. But it's going to have to be
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: a bigger part of the 2024 strategy than 2022 because
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: you're going to have more economically sensitive voters in this
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: voter pool than we had last time.
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: And the only chance to get it to break through
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: or and I imagine this will be the bulk of
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: the paid ads as well, is you got to pick
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: a fight over it, because if you're just out there
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: touting accomplishments, which, again, I'm not saying they are. They
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: didn't do that in the speech on Wednesday. But if
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: you're just doing if Democrats are out there just out
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: in the accomplishments, that's not going to break through. That's
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: not going to be new. If you are out there
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: fighting with Republicans because they want to screw up this
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: economy by giving a bunch of tax cuts to rich people.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: and fight for their rich friends and fight for themselves
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: versus Joe Biden, who's out there wanting to fight for
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: middle class workers because, you know, he's he's Scranton Joe,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: then that's going to be something that has at least
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: has a chance to break through more. And so I
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: do think that like constantly picking fights with Republicans, drawing
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the contrast, talking about their agenda, talking about what Trump
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: would do, because Trump, you can see that Trump in
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: the primary sees this coming in the general, which is
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: why he's trying to hit DeSantis on cutting Social Security
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: and Medicare, even though Trump's budgets did the same thing.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: You know, sales tax, stuff like that. Like Trump gets this.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: And what Biden and the Democrats need to do is
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: be like, no, no, no. Trump also gave us these
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: tax cuts that have increased the deficit and just made
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: rich people richer. And he would do more of that
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: if he comes to office. So we will talk more
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: about all of this with Ben LeBolt, the White House
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: communications director, right after this. joining us now he's been
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: joe biden's white house communications director for just about four
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: months he's also a longtime friend and colleague of ours
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: from the obama days and the only person in the
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: world who's lived with me tommy and love it and
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: worked for dan Ben LeBolt, welcome to the pod.
• 43:05
  Speaker 7: That sounded very incestuous. I am sitting in Pfeiffer's old office.
• 43:11
  Speaker 7: I've not done much with the decorations, but I have
• 43:14
  Speaker 7: put one picture up so far. And I will say,
• 43:17
  Speaker 7: out of all the roommates, just this sea of clothes
• 43:20
  Speaker 7: and trash all over the floor in Lovett's bedroom is
• 43:23
  Speaker 7: a sight I'll never fully get out of my mind,
• 43:25
  Speaker 7: but I've been working on it.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: You can't see this on the video, but just to
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: the left is the plaque that they have to commemorate
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: the fact that it was my office.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Ben, first question. Is this the best day of your life?
• 43:41
  Speaker 7: You know, John, every day is the best day of
• 43:43
  Speaker 7: my life. No, this was an exciting day for us.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: It was a day we've been building up to for.
• 43:50
  Speaker 6: A long time because it was the day that we
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: came forward to really tout the president's economic accomplishments with
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: the speech in Chicago. And I'm excited to talk to
• 44:03
  Speaker 6: you about it.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: A lot of stuff in that speech, great speech, his
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: economic approach, his accomplishments, work he's got left to do,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: contrast with Republicans approach, your communications director, what's your dream
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: headline out of the speech, or at least one part
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: that you really want people to take away?
• 44:22
  Speaker 7: That President Biden took on the failed concept of trickle-down economics,
• 44:29
  Speaker 7: and he's rebuilt the economy around the middle class, who
• 44:33
  Speaker 7: are really the backbone of the economy in the first place.
• 44:36
  Speaker 7: And if you think about his career, we've been talking
• 44:41
  Speaker 7: about trickle-down economics for 40 years, and a lot of
• 44:43
  Speaker 7: economists had felt that this was an effective policy for
• 44:48
  Speaker 7: the country. We've been talking about it since the 80s,
• 44:50
  Speaker 7: that if you rewarded the wealthiest in corporations with tax breaks,
• 44:55
  Speaker 7: that somehow that would trickle down to middle class families
• 44:58
  Speaker 7: and the economy across the country would be strong. But
• 45:01
  Speaker 7: growing up in Scranton, Pennsylvania and Claymont, Delaware, President Biden
• 45:06
  Speaker 7: never saw those policies impact his family. It never trickled
• 45:10
  Speaker 7: down to the kitchen table. And so He really believes
• 45:14
  Speaker 7: in reverse engineering that concept and centering economic policies around
• 45:18
  Speaker 7: the middle class from the beginning. That means basically three things.
• 45:22
  Speaker 7: Number one, we should invest in the United States. We
• 45:25
  Speaker 7: shouldn't reward corporations that are shipping jobs overseas. We should
• 45:29
  Speaker 7: take a look at what industries can be built here
• 45:31
  Speaker 7: in the United States from clean energy to semiconductors, chips,
• 45:40
  Speaker 7: Industries that were being built overseas in China over the
• 45:44
  Speaker 7: past decades, even though we invented that technology here in
• 45:47
  Speaker 7: the United States, a lot of people said reviving manufacturing
• 45:50
  Speaker 7: in the US wasn't possible. 800,000 manufacturing jobs have been
• 45:54
  Speaker 7: created under this administration, and that's just the beginning. So
• 45:58
  Speaker 7: that's one piece. The second piece is empowering workers. We
• 46:03
  Speaker 7: have a tight labor market. 13 million jobs were created
• 46:06
  Speaker 7: under this administration. And unemployment has been lower than 4%
• 46:11
  Speaker 7: for 16 months. That's the longest in decades. And that
• 46:16
  Speaker 7: means workers are empowered. Their wages are up. Workers are unionizing.
• 46:22
  Speaker 7: Even young workers are unionizing in new sectors. And employers
• 46:25
  Speaker 7: have to compete for their talent. And that means that
• 46:29
  Speaker 7: workers are doing well. And they're very empowered. And we've
• 46:32
  Speaker 7: got the strongest labor force participation rate that we've had
• 46:37
  Speaker 7: in years. And this is impacting everyone. It's particularly impacting
• 46:42
  Speaker 7: workers that were making lower wages. They've seen the most
• 46:45
  Speaker 7: wage growth of anybody else. We've seen the lowest Black
• 46:48
  Speaker 7: and Hispanic unemployment in history under this administration. So it's
• 46:54
  Speaker 7: having a real impact, and it's a result of all
• 46:57
  Speaker 7: of the big pieces of legislation that the president was
• 47:00
  Speaker 7: able to get through Congress over the past couple of years.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: The political challenge for the president is that people like
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: the things he has done when they hear about him,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: but not enough people have heard about him. What's your
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: theory or strategy to keep people paying attention in the
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: days and weeks after this speech?
• 47:15
  Speaker 7: Well, Dan, you wrote a bit about this today. As
• 47:17
  Speaker 7: you know, it's harder and harder to break through in
• 47:19
  Speaker 7: today's communications environment. The media is fractured. A lot of
• 47:25
  Speaker 7: people go off in their filter bubbles. We know that
• 47:29
  Speaker 7: in the 2020 election, You know, for the average persuadable American,
• 47:35
  Speaker 7: the number one show wasn't the news, it was The Bachelor.
• 47:38
  Speaker 7: And so I have to wake up every day and
• 47:40
  Speaker 7: figure out how we communicate with people across the country
• 47:44
  Speaker 7: that aren't necessarily watching the network news in the morning,
• 47:48
  Speaker 7: that certainly don't get their newspapers in print anymore. And
• 47:53
  Speaker 7: so frequency becomes really the challenge of the job. How
• 47:56
  Speaker 7: do we reach people on a repeated basis? with the
• 48:01
  Speaker 7: president's economic accomplishments in a way that they'll remember because
• 48:05
  Speaker 7: the average person has to hear something seven times before
• 48:08
  Speaker 7: they'll remember.
• 48:08
  Speaker 6: It at all.
• 48:10
  Speaker 7: And so, you know, what this Bidenomics frame allows us
• 48:13
  Speaker 7: to do is to start to talk about things that
• 48:15
  Speaker 7: people are feeling in the economy. You know, consumer confidence
• 48:20
  Speaker 7: is up. Inflation has come down over 50% over the
• 48:24
  Speaker 7: past year. We've had the strongest recovery in the United
• 48:26
  Speaker 7: States of any developed nation.
• 48:29
  Speaker 6: But these bills are.
• 48:30
  Speaker 7: Just starting to be implemented. And so shovels are going
• 48:33
  Speaker 7: into the ground to rebuild roads and bridges, 35,000 projects
• 48:37
  Speaker 7: across the country. You know, the price of insulin is
• 48:40
  Speaker 7: now capped at 35 bucks across the country. But we
• 48:44
  Speaker 7: got to make sure that people are connecting those things
• 48:47
  Speaker 7: to all of the legislation that the president passed through
• 48:49
  Speaker 7: Congress in the past couple of years. And so that
• 48:52
  Speaker 7: will require the president, the vice president, the first lady,
• 48:55
  Speaker 7: the second gentleman going out on the road to talk
• 48:58
  Speaker 7: about this, coordinating with members of Congress, coordinating with members.
• 49:02
  Speaker 6: Of the cabinet.
• 49:03
  Speaker 7: And we're trying to be on the road in districts,
• 49:06
  Speaker 7: on conventional media platforms, and to be communicating digitally. It's
• 49:11
  Speaker 7: sort of an all-in communication strategy to make sure that
• 49:15
  Speaker 7: people are seeing that these economic gains, this progress that
• 49:18
  Speaker 7: they're seeing coming out of the pandemic is related to
• 49:22
  Speaker 7: the policies of this administration.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: You know, as you remember from the days we worked together,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: we always had a tortured relationship with the term Obamacare.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we embraced it. Sometimes we thought that it would
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: turn people who did not love President Obama but did
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: like more affordable health care into away from the program.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: But with this speech, you guys are clearly embracing the
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: term Bidenomics. Why are you doing that? Are there any
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: downside risks to making the economy so personally tied to
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: the president?
• 49:50
  Speaker 7: Well, we think we have a really strong story to tell.
• 49:54
  Speaker 7: And it's countering a narrative that's been out there for some.
• 49:58
  Speaker 7: There's been this prediction of a recession from some economists
• 50:03
  Speaker 7: and economic commentators for months now. When all the data
• 50:08
  Speaker 7: is coming in, 330,000 jobs created last month, for example,
• 50:13
  Speaker 7: as I said, the strongest recovery of any developed nation,
• 50:17
  Speaker 7: stable and steady economic growth. We believe that there's a
• 50:21
  Speaker 7: really strong story to tell. And this manufacturing boom that
• 50:26
  Speaker 7: we're seeing in the United States that we're not seeing
• 50:29
  Speaker 7: in any of our competitors in the West. We know
• 50:32
  Speaker 7: it's a result of passing the Inflation Reduction Act that
• 50:36
  Speaker 7: had the record funding for clean energy in it, for example,
• 50:40
  Speaker 7: and the Chips and Science Act, which are building these
• 50:42
  Speaker 7: semiconductor plants across the country. And so our view is
• 50:45
  Speaker 7: that ultimately, Americans' perceptions of the present will be linked
• 50:52
  Speaker 7: to the performance of the economy. And we believe there's
• 50:56
  Speaker 7: a very strong record here that we need to start
• 50:59
  Speaker 7: communicating forcefully about every day.
• 51:01
  Speaker 6: And so I don't think.
• 51:02
  Speaker 7: Bidenomics will just be today and just be the speech. Um,
• 51:06
  Speaker 7: but that's really going to be a key part of
• 51:08
  Speaker 7: our frame moving forward.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Hey Ben, thanks for joining our filter bubble. I just
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: wanted to say that.
• 51:13
  Speaker 7: A lot of diverse viewpoints here.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: One of the president's favorite lines is don't compare me
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. Uh, sure enough,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: house Republicans started the day with, uh, two tweets about
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Hunter Biden and one celebrating the end of Roe v. Wade.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Do you find it easier to convince people that they
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: are better off with Biden's approach versus the Republicans' approach
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: than it is to convince people that they should feel
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: better about the economy than they might?
• 51:44
  Speaker 7: Well, look, we're going to do both. Number one, we
• 51:47
  Speaker 7: think people are feeling better about the economy. We're not
• 51:49
  Speaker 7: going to tell people something that they don't believe. And
• 51:52
  Speaker 7: when you ask somebody, for example, today, How do you
• 51:56
  Speaker 7: feel about your personal economic situation? 76% of Americans are
• 52:00
  Speaker 7: saying that they feel good about it. And consumer confidence
• 52:03
  Speaker 7: is up.
• 52:05
  Speaker 6: The job market is booming.
• 52:07
  Speaker 7: Unemployment is at a low. And so those things are
• 52:10
  Speaker 7: factually true. And they're the reason we can go out
• 52:13
  Speaker 7: and talk about them. At the same time, what are Republicans...
• 52:17
  Speaker 7: offering people today. I think that economically, we know what
• 52:21
  Speaker 7: they're offering. They're offering tax cuts to the wealthiest in corporations,
• 52:25
  Speaker 7: which have seemed to be this recycled Republican idea over
• 52:30
  Speaker 7: and over again that didn't bring manufacturing back to the US,
• 52:34
  Speaker 7: didn't create record low unemployment. We know that it doesn't
• 52:37
  Speaker 7: work and it created record deficits that we're all paying
• 52:40
  Speaker 7: for as well. Secondly, they've gotten into such an extreme
• 52:45
  Speaker 7: position across the board on so many issues. Another one
• 52:49
  Speaker 7: that I would point out, you talked about Roe, they're
• 52:52
  Speaker 7: really out of step with the public on that. They're
• 52:54
  Speaker 7: certainly out of step with millennials and Gen Z, but
• 52:59
  Speaker 7: this notion of freedom and individual liberties, that used to
• 53:03
  Speaker 7: be something that Republicans liked to go out and talk about.
• 53:07
  Speaker 7: But MAGA Republicans today, if you're a woman who wants
• 53:11
  Speaker 7: to make her own healthcare decisions, If you're a parent
• 53:14
  Speaker 7: that believes that you should decide what books your kids
• 53:17
  Speaker 7: have access to instead of, you know, an ideological politician.
• 53:23
  Speaker 7: If you're somebody who cares about gay rights in this
• 53:27
  Speaker 7: country or LGBTQ rights broadly, Republicans are really conducting an
• 53:34
  Speaker 7: assault on freedom and an assault on individual liberties right now.
• 53:39
  Speaker 7: And they're way out of step with the public on that.
• 53:41
  Speaker 7: And I think it really puts them in a vulnerable position.
• 53:43
  Speaker 7: So the president has been a champion to go out
• 53:46
  Speaker 7: and defend these things. He believes we should codify Roe.
• 53:49
  Speaker 7: He came out after Dobbs and did what he believed
• 53:53
  Speaker 7: was everything he could do in his executive authority to
• 53:56
  Speaker 7: defend reproductive rights. He made sure that we're defending marriage
• 54:03
  Speaker 7: equality and pass legislation to do so. And so, you know,
• 54:08
  Speaker 7: Republicans are just drifting further and further down the MAGA
• 54:12
  Speaker 7: ideological spectrum here and really putting themselves in political peril.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: We're still waiting on some of the big Supreme Court
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: decisions to come down, but looks like the Senate's moving
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: forward on ethics reform legislation after a series of stories
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: about Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito failing to disclose private
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: jet rides with rich right-wing donors. So President's Commission on
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court Reform has recommended a code of conduct for justices.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: Senate looks like they're going to do something similar. Does
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: he support that kind of reform?
• 54:43
  Speaker 7: We'll have to take a look at the text of
• 54:46
  Speaker 7: the legislation to understand what's coming through. But I can
• 54:49
  Speaker 7: point out that he signed the courthouse Ethics and Transparency Act,
• 54:53
  Speaker 7: which requires federal judges to disclose their stock purchases and
• 54:58
  Speaker 7: sales and post their financial disclosures online. And obviously, you've
• 55:02
  Speaker 7: seen a lot of news that's come out of that recently.
• 55:06
  Speaker 7: In terms of the courts more broadly, placing the president's
• 55:13
  Speaker 7: mark on the federal courts has been a big part
• 55:17
  Speaker 7: of this presidency. He's confirmed 136 federal judges to appointments
• 55:24
  Speaker 7: to the federal bench. So far, two-thirds of them have
• 55:27
  Speaker 7: been women. It's been the most diverse slate of judges
• 55:32
  Speaker 7: in history. The president used to be chairman of the
• 55:36
  Speaker 7: Senate Judiciary Committee. And so every Supreme Court justice that
• 55:41
  Speaker 7: was appointed by a Democratic president, President Biden has played
• 55:44
  Speaker 7: a key role in making sure that they were confirmed
• 55:48
  Speaker 7: There just couldn't be a bigger priority for this administration
• 55:52
  Speaker 7: than making sure that the courts are upholding opportunity and
• 56:00
  Speaker 7: equal justice under the law. And the president's really dedicated
• 56:03
  Speaker 7: his career to that. And so he keeps a very
• 56:05
  Speaker 7: close eye on the courts.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: I was yelling on the pod earlier this week about
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: how a few months ago, Biden got all kinds of
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: shit from the left. about supposedly abandoning the rail workers
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: on the issue of paid sick days. And then we
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: learned this week from the rail workers that the administration
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: was quietly working behind the scenes the entire time to
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: help them successfully negotiate for those paid sick days. There
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: was a similar dynamic around Biden not going out more
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: forcefully during the debt ceiling negotiations. How do you guys
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: decide which fights you're more likely to win by just
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: quietly playing the long game, even if it means... eating
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: shit in the short term?
• 56:46
  Speaker 7: I think that that's part of the president's DNA, and
• 56:49
  Speaker 7: he doesn't get spun up by the daily news cycle
• 56:54
  Speaker 7: and focuses on the long game and focuses on getting
• 56:57
  Speaker 7: to the outcome. So something like when he was negotiating
• 57:01
  Speaker 7: with the Speaker and Republicans in Congress, over the bipartisan
• 57:08
  Speaker 7: budget agreement, where we thought at the end of the day,
• 57:10
  Speaker 7: we got a very good deal that protected all the
• 57:14
  Speaker 7: president's signature programs and things like the largest investment in
• 57:18
  Speaker 7: history in the clean energy economy. You know, he is
• 57:22
  Speaker 7: very hands-on in those negotiations and in the communications to
• 57:26
  Speaker 7: the point where, you know, some of the statements I
• 57:28
  Speaker 7: put out, the president personally dictated during that process to
• 57:32
  Speaker 7: make sure that Um, they were very carefully written that
• 57:36
  Speaker 7: they wouldn't disrupt the negotiations. Um, and so I think he's,
• 57:40
  Speaker 7: I think he's an extremely smart negotiator. You know, I'm
• 57:43
  Speaker 7: somebody who likes to win every argument. Um, and that
• 57:48
  Speaker 7: isn't always the smartest negotiating strategy. Uh, and I think
• 57:52
  Speaker 7: that that's just one, you know, hallmark of, of his
• 57:55
  Speaker 7: long career in public service is that he knows how
• 57:58
  Speaker 7: to drive towards an outcome.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Speaking of winning an argument, um, I just saw the, uh,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: that one way the White House press office celebrated pride
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: was by delivering rainbow cupcakes to the Fox News reporters
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: in the briefing room. What was that all about?
• 58:14
  Speaker 7: You know, there was a crazy story that ran in
• 58:19
  Speaker 7: Fox that called the pride flag a flag of groomers
• 58:24
  Speaker 7: and pedophiles, just complete, you know, insane QAnon internet stuff
• 58:31
  Speaker 7: that just has no basis whatsoever. in reality, and they
• 58:36
  Speaker 7: never corrected the story and took it down. And so,
• 58:41
  Speaker 7: as you know, we had a big Pride celebration at
• 58:45
  Speaker 7: the White House, and we were glad that everybody was
• 58:48
  Speaker 7: welcome to participate.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: How did the reporters at Fox take that?
• 58:55
  Speaker 7: I'll let them comment on that.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: So you've worked for Biden for about four months now.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Can you give us like one story about what it's
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: like to work for Joe Biden, just to give people
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: a window into how he runs his White House?
• 59:11
  Speaker 8: Absolutely.
• 59:11
  Speaker 7: Look, as you both know, I've worked for a number
• 59:14
  Speaker 7: of elected officials.
• 59:16
  Speaker 6: Over the years.
• 59:17
  Speaker 7: They all have their own style and their own ways
• 59:20
  Speaker 7: of dealing with the team. And we're all familiar with one,
• 59:27
  Speaker 7: I think. You know, the way things work around here
• 59:30
  Speaker 7: is it's important to prep for prep. You know, President
• 59:35
  Speaker 7: Biden is extremely detail oriented. He likes to attack policy
• 59:41
  Speaker 7: issues and negotiations from every angle and to play out
• 59:45
  Speaker 7: every scenario in every possible way along the chessboard that
• 59:48
  Speaker 7: they can play out. And so you better walk into
• 59:53
  Speaker 7: the Oval knowing the answer to every possible question. to
• 59:58
  Speaker 7: make sure that, you know, he works it through. I
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 7: think of it like the law school class I never had,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 7: because after I took the LSAT, I just went and
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 7: worked on campaigns instead. But, you know, Socratic method, anybody
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 7: in the room should be prepared to speak and answer
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 7: any question. You know, devil's advocate around every issue to
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 7: understand both the policy and politics of how something might
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 7: play out and people across the country might respond to it.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 7: And that's true on domestic policy. It's true on foreign policy.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 7: I'm in a position where I feel like I'm learning
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 7: every day. I'm getting my PhD here in the job.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 7: And so he's just a very, very hands-on president when
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 7: it comes to both managing The White House, the government apparatus,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 7: and policy writ large.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: We asked Saki about this, but what's different about your
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: second tour in the White House?
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 7: You know, it's a little bit different in that I
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 7: think we all wish we could always be in our
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 7: 20s doing these jobs to just have the limit list.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 7: energy and ability to deal with anything and to sit
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 7: here at all hours and throw yourself with all the
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 7: energy you've ever had and everything that comes your way.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 7: This is more a marathon than a sprint. I guess
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 7: that was a sprint that was also a marathon. And
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 7: so endurance becomes more important. You also come into the
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 7: job just knowing more about the fact that you're always
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 7: going to leave something on the table every day. You're
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 7: never going to get it all done. The executive branch
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 7: is a massive organization with hundreds of thousands of people.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 7: And so for as many moments as you want to
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 7: sit here and drive news and plan things perfectly, it's
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 7: so easy for something to pop up in the news
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 7: or across the government that takes your full attention for
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 7: a week, two weeks, three weeks. a month where you
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 7: really have to divert the team and focus on that.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 7: So I came in with with that perspective this time around.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 7: And I'm also inviting myself to more of the events
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 7: that they host.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 6: At the White House.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 7: I know what to ask.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: Smart. That's smart. Last question. People don't know this, but
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: in the Obama days, you started a tradition in the
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: press office where you'd respond to overly whiny complaints from
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: from journalists with a picture of a crying mime?
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Honestly, started meme culture there. It didn't exist before that.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: When is the last time you've sent a crying mime
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: to someone?
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 7: Well, you know, technology has been updated, John, and we
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 7: didn't have emojis back then. And so now there's actually
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 7: the eye roll emoji and several other emojis that I'm
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 7: able to deploy in similar circumstances.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Excellent. LaPole, thanks for coming on Pod Save America. Appreciate it.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: Come back again soon.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 7: Good to talk to you guys.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: Will do.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, before we go, a heartbreaking story. One of Washington's
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: saddest and fakest romances is on the rocks. Kevin McCarthy.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: the legislative and political genius who's fighting off a MAGA
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: rebellion in the House, was asked in an interview whether
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump is the best candidate to run against Joe Biden.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: Here's what he said. But do you think he could
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: win an election? Could he win an election?
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: Can he win that election?
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he can. You think he can?
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: The question is, is he the strongest to win the election?
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know that answer.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: Also, first of all, talk about a swerve. He just
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: had to shut his mouth there. It wasn't like the interviewer.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: When I first heard about this, I thought maybe the
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: interviewer had grilled him and was like, no, no. Is
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump the strongest candidate? No, he just said, could
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: he win an election? Then Kevin volunteers. Is he the strongest?
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: Not the deftest of people, I will say, Kevin McCarthy.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Before we get into the lover's quarrel, was McCarthy right
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: in what he said?
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: Feels like a trick question. If I say McCarthy was right,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Elijah's going to cut it and tweet it out.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: Ha ha ha.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: I don't really know how to respond in this entrapment
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: that we call a podcast.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: I could not think of a more banal correct answer. Yes,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: of course Donald Trump can win an election against Joe Biden. No,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he's the strongest candidate against Joe Biden.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: Of course we don't know that.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: There is evidence that he is definitely not.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: There's evidence that he's not. There's some evidence that he
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: might be because Ron DeSantis fucking sucks. It's like, we
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: just don't know. And the reason I want to make
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: the point about what a banal observation that was is
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: because of what happens next. So after this, Politico reports
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: that obviously Trump lost his shit. His people were texting
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: what the fuck to each other and calling McCarthy a
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: moron like there's some fucking Pod Save America hosts. Kevin
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: then called Trump to apologize. gave an interview to Breitbart
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: where he said, quote, Trump is stronger today than he
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: was in 2016, and then put up a fundraising pitch
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: that said Trump is the strongest opponent to Biden. But
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: that pissed Trump off even more because apparently you're not
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: allowed to fundraise, do a fundraising pitch using Trump's name
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: without Trump's explicit sign-off. So then they made McCarthy take
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: down the fundraising pitch that he did to try to
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: correct his fuck-up. I guess they're also pissed in MAGA
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: world that McCarthy hasn't endorsed Trump yet, which raises the question,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: why hasn't he?
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's endorsed Trump in all but name only,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: but the extent, the reason he hasn't done it is
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: he has 19 Republicans who are trying to run for
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: re-election in districts that Joe Biden won. And it makes
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: it a little bit harder for Kevin McCarthy to campaign
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: for them, raise money for them, appear with them if
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: the Speaker of the House and the leader of the
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: caucus is someone who is shilling for Trump.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, also, it's just like, He is the top elected
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: official in the Republican Party in the country, and there
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: is a competitive primary for the Republican nomination. Obviously, you
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: would expect this in any other world, not the one
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: that we're in. Any other one, you'd expect the Speaker
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: of the House to be neutral. We would not have
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: expected Nancy Pelosi to jump in and endorse one of
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: the Democratic candidates during the 2020 race at the beginning.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: Course he should be fucking neutral. It just, it's like,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: what do you think about McCarthy's statement to Breitbart that
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: Trump is stronger today than he was in 2016? Sure.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: I actually think that might be true.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably true. I mean, it really depends on
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: what political value you put on multiple criminal convictions and
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: their impact on electability.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you just look at the polls, I
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: went back, In 2015, at this exact time, the primary
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: was Bush, as in Jeb, 19, Trump 12, Huckabee 8.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: So he's doing a lot better in the primary than
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: he was then. And then he is closer to Biden
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: in polling in general election matchup than he was to Hillary.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: At this time, in end of June 2015, trial heats
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: were 59% Hillary, 34% Trump.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 6: Yikes.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: Well, and as we know, the polls at 2016 were infallible.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: This to me is just this whole story is an
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: example of what an unbelievable grip Donald Trump still has
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: on the Republican Party that Kevin McCarthy goes out there
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: and says something fairly obvious, which is, who knows if
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Trump's the strongest candidate? Let's wait and see. Of course
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: he can win the election. And Donald Trump and his
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: people flip out so badly that Kevin has to apologize,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: basically flip his entire stance from saying that he doesn't
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: know if Donald Trump could win to basically endorsing him
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: by saying he's the strongest candidate against Joe Biden in
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: a fundraising pitch that he then had to take down.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: That's what happens when you cross Trump in the Republican Party.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: Well, Donald Trump also has an amazing intuition for very
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: weak people who will degrade themselves. And Kevin McCarthy is
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: a very weak person who will, of course, degrade himself
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: in tremendous ways to beg forgiveness. He loves to make
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: people beg. And he knew Kevin McCarthy would beg, so
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: he did it.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Speaking of people who will debase themselves....
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to see where this is going.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: Did you hear.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis' answer to a question at a New Hampshire
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: town hall about whether he thinks Donald Trump disrupted the
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: peaceful transfer of power on January 6th? Did you hear
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: that answer?
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: I think your use of the term answer is doing
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of work in that sense.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis answers by saying, well, I wasn't near Washington
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: that day. And then he said, I certainly didn't enjoy
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: watching what happened. Oh, oh, you didn't enjoy watching the
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: violent insurrection against the Capitol. That's what, that's what you're saying.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: So Caitlin Collins of CNN is interviewing Chris Christie last night,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: I believe. asked him to respond to Ron DeSantis' answer.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: And here's what Chris Christie had to say.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 8: He wasn't anywhere near Washington. Did he have a TV?
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 8: Was he alive that day? Did he see what was
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 8: going on? I mean, that's one of the most ridiculous
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 8: answers I've heard in this race so far. You don't
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 8: have an opinion about January 6th except to say, I
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 8: didn't particularly enjoy what happened.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: People were killed. That's exactly a strong statement.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 8: People were killed, Caitlin, as you know, that day. on
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 8: Capitol Hill defending the Capitol. We had members of Congress
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 8: who were running for their lives. We had people trying
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 8: to hunt down the Vice President of the United States, chanting,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 8: hang Mike Pence. And Donald Trump the entire time sat
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 8: outside the Oval Office in that little dining room of his,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 8: eating a well-done cheeseburger and watching TV and doing nothing
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 8: to stop what was going on until it got to
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 8: the point where even he could no longer stand it.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 8: And he finally at four something in the afternoon put
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 8: out a video asking people to leave the Capitol. And
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 8: Ron DeSantis doesn't have any opinion on that.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: If he asked you that question, how would you answer it?
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 8: I would say it was one of the most disgraceful
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 8: days in American history and that the president was principally
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 8: responsible for it.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: Not that hard.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: No, great job, Chris Christie.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: He's still around. I'm sure Trump put out a few
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: angry truths about this. Nothing happened. Is he going to
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: win the Republican nomination?
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 8: No.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: Are Republican voters going to like that? Probably not. Glad
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: he's out there saying it, though.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: It's a pretty sharp prosecution of Donald Trump.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: It is a wild world that Chris Christie, who is
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: an actually talented communicator in a party full of absolute
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: marble mouth losers, can't get any traction in this primary.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: I was watching this and I thought to myself, you
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: know what? Chris Christie is basically just a really good
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: cable pundit who fucking hates Donald Trump, who's running for president.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: That's what he is.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Donald Trump won in 2016 because he was
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: a really good Fox News pundit running for president.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: Well, and the thing he does there that's good, that's
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: beyond sort of, you know, politics, ideology, whatever, is he
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: just like, is not afraid to sort of say what
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: everyone's thinking about Ron DeSantis' answer, right? Like, this is
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis' fucking problem. is that he does speak in
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: sort of talking points, like he is just reading whatever's
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: written for him, typical politician, all the stuff that Donald
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: Trump's running against him for, or running Donald Trump's message
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: about him, which is that he's like a typical establishment politician.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: Forget about his positions on issues that make him a
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: typical establishment politician. He sounds like one. He's stiff. His
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: speeches suck, right? And I think Donald Trump understands that
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: sometimes you just say what's on your mind, clearly, but
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: Chris Christie is now doing that too, right? We've had
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: plenty of politicians in Democratic Party who've been successful doing that.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: Barack Obama used to do that quite often where he'd
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: sort of just like laugh about the absurdity of politics
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: or the absurdity of his opponents, right? That's what Chris
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: Christie is doing right now.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, Chris Christie is full of shit. I think
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: he legitimately hates Donald Trump, but I also think if
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: at the end of this election, Donald Trump invited him
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: back into the cabinet, he would go back because he's
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: made this flip like 12 times now. But he is
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: a very– I'm not going to place a lot of
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: bet on the rigid, straightforward moral compass of Chris Christie.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: But he does communicate with authenticity. Like he does sound
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: like he speaks like a human with strength. And that
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: was why he was the first choice of many Republicans
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: to be their nominee in 2012. And he missed his
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: moment to at least would have given Obama a better–
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: a tougher shot than Romney did. But it's– like I said,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: it's great. I will take him on there. I reverse
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: my position where I've been attacking you in private and
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: in public for being willing to give to Chris Christie
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: to get him on the debate stage. I'm okay with that.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's good for the world. I want to
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: see it, but that's where I stand.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: I just want to be clear here. I think Chris
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: Christie would be a horrible president with terrible positions on
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of issues. If there was a Supreme
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: Court opening, he'd probably put a justice in there that
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: would fucking ruin the rest of democracy, it would be horrible.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's become a moderate. I think he
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: is genuine in his hatred for Donald Trump, who almost
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: killed him. And I think he was probably, he's genuine
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: in his disgust of what happened on January 6th. I
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: think you can hold all of those things in your
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: head at the same time.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: That's fair. That's fair. I give you that. I give
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: you and Chris Christie that.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like he's a fucking hero for it. Again,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: it is personal in that Donald Trump almost killed him.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: You would expect someone who was almost killed by Donald
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: Trump to spend a lot of time trying to exact
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: revenge on him.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: That's fair.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be too happy if someone almost killed me.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't support them. I might not accept an
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: invitation to go back into their cabinet. Just a thought.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: Mike Pence? I don't know if he's there. Again, someone
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: who was almost killed by Donald Trump. Okay, that's all
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: we have for today. Thanks to Ben LeBolt for joining
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America. Everyone have a great weekend and a
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: great 4th.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 8: Oh, right.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: So instead of Pod Save America, on Tuesday, you will
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: hear an episode of Terminally Online, our subscriber show that
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: you can get. If you go to kirkit.com slash friends,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: you can get all the Terminally Onlines you want. But
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: we're going to put one episode in the PSA feed
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: for Tuesday because we'll be off for the 4th. And
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: then Dan and I will be back on Thursday.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: I would just say, as someone who was on that
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: episode of Terminally Online... You cannot miss the wormhole that
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: Jon Favreau crawled into.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: On the internet this week. It is wild.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: It's dark. It's dark.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: Bye, everyone.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 8: Bye, everyone.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are Andy Gardner Bernstein
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Madeline Herringer,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Mia Kelman,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: Ben Hefko, and David Toll. Subscribe to Pod Save America
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: on YouTube to catch full episodes, exclusive content, and other
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: community events. Find us at youtube.com slash at Pod Save America.