Latest / The Post-Separation Abuse Podcast / 105. The 5 critical mistakes that parents make in early separation

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105. The 5 critical mistakes that parents make in early separation · The Post-Separation Abuse Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to invite you to wherever you are now to pause for a moment, to feel where your body's making contact with something solid, the ground beneath your feet, the seat underneath you if you're sitting, the weight of your own hands, to take one breath in slowly, to hold it for a few moments, and then to let it go.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: To bring your shoulders up to your ears, to hold them there, and let them drop.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Feel some of that tension start to ease a little bit.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: So now to the five critical mistakes that I see parents make in the early stages of separation.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: My many years of one-on-one coaching in this space has given me a level of insight and understanding that many other professionals simply don't have.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: When relationships end and children are involved, the decisions that you make in the early stages can impact your family for years to come.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, most parents make critical mistakes during this vulnerable time, often because they're following well-meaning but misguided advice from friends, family, or professionals.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit about me, my name is Danielle Black.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: For many years now I've been helping Australian women with their separation, divorce, and co-parenting journeys.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I consider myself to be Australia's leading specialist coach in child focused post-separation parenting.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Having navigated my own complex separation and guided hundreds of clients to successful outcomes, I provide evidence-based strategies that prioritize children's safety and development over and above adult convenience and outdated concepts of fairness.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is just one of the things that sets me apart from so many other professionals working in the separation, divorce, and co-parenting space.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Much of my work is with women who have concerns about the way that their partner or former partner behaves and the way in which this behavior is causing problems with separation or co-parenting.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Commonly, my clients are dealing with a former partner who's demanding significant parenting time without considering the impact to the children.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: I specialize in helping protective parents, to challenge inappropriate parenting arrangements, and to navigate complex situations that other professionals simply either don't address, won't address, or can't address.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Mistake number one, avoiding conflict at all costs.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: So many parents, especially those who have experienced controlling or otherwise abusive relationships, have an extreme avoidance of conflict.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: They hope to manage their former partner's behavior by developing a habit of complying with demands, and they believe that keeping the peace is ultimately the best thing for themselves and their children.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is what they've learned during the course of the relationship to walk on eggshells, to placate their former partner, to acquiesce to demands.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, we often have one main choice, particularly in early separation.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: We can avoid conflict or we can be a protective parent.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Very rarely can we have both.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: This might sound and feel like not wanting to rock the boat, perhaps believing that it's just easier to agree than to argue, really disliking confrontation, being worried that the con any conflict at all is going to be bad for the kids.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps thinking that if you give your ex what they want that they'll calm down.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: There can also be a belief that you can change parenting arrangements later if they don't work for the kids or that the kids aren't coping.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you know that something in your gut is just not right with the demands that your ex is making, you might feel that you just simply don't know how to say no.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Potentially because you spent a lot of time in a relationship with someone with whom you very rarely said no.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this can be harmful because this level of conflict avoidance leads to accepting inappropriate parenting arrangements that can cause harm to kids.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Physical harm, but also most commonly emotional, mental, psychological harm.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: It can teach kids that their needs and safety ultimately don't matter.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: It enables the continued controlling behavior from an abusive former partner, and at the end of the day it means that we sacrifice our kids' safety and development for a temporary false peace and our own emotional comfort.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's hard to hear, but in many, many cases, parents who want to be protective are not at genuine physical risk.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: In the majority of cases, what they're instead feeling is a lack of emotional safety, an intense emotional discomfort at the thought of saying no to the former partner.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: A fear of some kind of consequence, even if they can't fully articulate what that might be.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: But not all parental conflict should be avoided.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, appropriate advocacy for your children's needs teaches them incredibly valuable lessons about self-worth and boundaries, and kids need to see their protective parents standing up for what's right, even when it's uncomfortable for that parent.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: So what do we do instead?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be able to distinguish between healthy advocacy and destructive conflict.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be able to focus on our children's needs rather than the needs or demands of the other parent or adult concepts of fairness.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: We need to seek support with growing our tolerance and our capacity for temporary emotional discomfort so that we're better able to advocate for ourselves and for our kids long term.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we need to seek professional support to build confidence in appropriate boundary setting and co-parenting communication.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Mistake number two believing that fifty fifty is best.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Parents are constantly told that equal shared care arrangements or colloquially called fifty fifty is automatically in children's best interests, regardless of the children's age, needs or family circumstances.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So many people in the community, including professionals, believe that non-primary caregivers have rights to the children.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And those myths have become so pervasive that questioning them makes parents feel like they're being unreasonable or controlling, a narrative that is often fostered by fathers' rights groups.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: There is also a pervasive myth that the court is most likely to order equal shared parental responsibility and equal shared parenting time, and this is in the context of Australian family law, but that is just simply not true.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now this mistake of believing that fifty fifty is in children's best interests can be incredibly harmful because it undermines children's attachment security with their primary caregiver.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: When caregivers are simply treated as being interchangeable, this denies the hierarchical reality of attachment.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: What is developmentally normal for children is that they have a hierarchy of attachment with parents, and their most secure, deep attachment is with their primary caregiver.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: 5050 ignores that developmental fact.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: 5050 denies a child a stable primary home base.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Children are viewed as possessions of the relationship instead of unique individuals with their own unique needs, and mathematical equality is prioritized over and above children's developmental needs and their overall well being.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: The reality is that research consistently shows that equal shared care arrangements are often not in children's best interests at all.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: The quality of relationships and the appropriateness of arrangements matter far more than mathematical equality and adult concepts of fairness.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I mention this adult concept of fairness because fifty fifty really is about adult needs and fairness to parents.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: It is not at all about fairness to children and was never designed to be, and unfortunately it has become an ideology worldwide, and particularly in this context, in Australia, even with professionals.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: So what do we do?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well instead you need to consider your children's specific developmental needs, to evaluate the practical impact of the proposed care arrangements, to understand child development stages relevant to your kids' ages, and to listen to your instincts and gut feelings about what is best for your children based on the amount of genuine parenting that occurred prior to separation.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And again, the drive for adult equality in parenting time is by far and away ideological rather than evidence based.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that is unpacked in depth in the post-separation parenting blueprint.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Mistake number three is believing that you need the non-primary parents' agreement for everything.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Many parents after separation believe that they cannot make any decisions about their kids without the other parents' consent.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: This can lead to a paralysis that often allows unreasonable demands from the non-primary parent to control the family's well-being, or to continue to control the family's well-being is most often the case.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Concerningly, this also leads to kids not having their needs met in a timely manner, such as not being able to be connected with mental or allied health support after the separation.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: This can lead to delaying important decisions about kids' health, education or safety.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: It allows the other parent to control by withholding agreement.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: It means that kids miss opportunities to be protected from harmful situations, and it also means that you're just feeling constant stress and uncertainty about even the most basic parenting decisions.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: What you need to be aware of is that primary carers maintain more parental responsibilities that you might think after separation.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And importantly, children maintain their rights to have their needs met in a timely manner.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Upon separation, both parents have parental responsibility, but day-to-day parenting decisions rest with the parent providing care.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: You can continue many existing arrangements without requiring the other parent's permission or consent, and in many instances you can connect your child with necessary support or intervention without first obtaining consent from your co-parent.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if your child needs to go to the doctor, you don't need to let the other parent know or get their permission or invite them to the appointment.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, this would be a different situation if you were getting medical treatment for a serious or significant injury or illness.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if we're just talking about the average thing that you would need to connect with the doctor about, it's little things like that that we're often supporting our clients with.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because for clients that are working with us by way of a coaching package, they also have access to email and direct message support in between coaching calls.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And these are often some of the questions that crop up.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Questions about do I need to let the other parent know?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: If yes, can you help me with the message and when should I send the message?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: These are the sorts of practical things that coaching can help you with.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: So what do we do in this situation?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the first thing is obviously to understand what you can decide on without agreement, and that is the vast majority of the things that you had been making decisions upon before separation, you can continue doing that as the primary caregiver.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you can continue the existing beneficial arrangements for your kids.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can make day-to-day decisions based on your kids' immediate needs.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: But also it can be important to seek advice about your specific responsibilities.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Mistake number four, making permanent decisions based on temporary emotions.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: The early stages of separation are incredibly overwhelming.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I get it, I've lived it, I see you, I know how hard it is.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, so many parents make critical long term decisions about parenting arrangements based on guilt, fear or pressure rather than on their kids' actual needs.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And many years ago, nearly two decades ago now, that was me.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: I did those things.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: So please know that there is absolutely no judgment from me whatsoever.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here in this space as a fellow traveller, and that's one of the reasons why I do this work, because I know how hard it is when deep down you're wanting to do the best thing for your kids, but you're just not sure how to go about it, or you're scared, or you just need someone there to hold your hand, even if just metaphorically, I get it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So why can it be harmful to be making permanent decisions based on temporary emotions?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, emotion-driven decisions often result in arrangements that seem fair to the adults, but are harmful to kids.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Guilt-based parenting prioritizes other parents' feelings over kids' needs and well-being.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not uncommon for primary parents to agree to parenting arrangements because the other parent is lonely or really upset about the separation.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, this ultimately means that kids are being used as emotional support animals for adults, and that's not okay.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Making emotional based decisions in the moment means that we also make fear-based choices that prioritize our emotional comfort.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: We can end up stuck in arrangements that are convenient for the adults involved but are not child centered.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we can end up with arrangements that may not at all be working for the kids, but that, nevertheless, can be very, very difficult to change over time.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is what a lot of people don't realise.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: When emotions are high, the reality is that logic and critical thinking are very, very low.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: When you are in a highly emotional state, the thoughts that you're having, the decisions that you make are potentially not going to be high quality ones.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: What feels right in crisis mode is very unlikely to serve your kids long term.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, again in an Australian context, family law gives significant weight to established patterns.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're called precedents.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this can make it so very important to get parenting arrangements right as early as possible.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So what to do instead?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Take your time to process major decisions.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to agree to parenting arrangements.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: They don't need to be set in stone as soon as you separate from the other parent.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: You can have some temporary arrangements in place, and I recommend that if you've got children under the age of four, that that includes daytime visits only with the non-primary parent.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: If there are any concerns about alcohol use, drug use, family violence, even in the absence of physical abuse, mental health issues, any concern whatsoever, avoid any overnight time.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's things like that that we're often supporting our clients with.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or access the post-separation parenting blueprint that will help you to craft a parenting plan, parenting arrangements that truly are in the best interests of your kids.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: But please, the number one thing, take time to process major decisions.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be forced into a knee-jerk agreement from your co-parent.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: When you are in a highly emotive state, the reality is you are just so much easier to control.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Your former partner will absolutely attempt to make the most of you being in that state and get agreement on parenting arrangements, knowing full well that it will be very, very difficult for you to change them later on.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: It happens all the time.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Take time to process major decisions, seek support from informed friends, family, or professionals, preferably professionals that are aware of child development and who understand the context of Australian family law, as I said, preferably the post-separation parenting blueprint.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: You also need to separate your emotional needs and the emotional needs of the other parent from your kids' needs.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is not about parents.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is not about what you need, what your ex needs, this is about what your kids need, and they're going to need you primarily, they're going to need that secure attachment with their primary caregiver.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they've seen the other parent on a daily basis prior to separation.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a difference between the other parent, you know, being in the house, kind of just being a presence, and genuinely being a hands-on, tuned in, responsive parent.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Has the other parent been getting up in the middle of the night for for needs that the kids might have?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Has the parent also done their share of taking time off work when kids are sick?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Or taking kids to medical or allied health appointments?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: All of these things will help you to unpack whether or not that other parent has genuinely been involved in day-to-day caregiving.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not uncommon for the other parent to make a claim that they in fact have been the primary caregiver or that primary caregiving has been shared.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time those claims are complete bullshit.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that's another reason why you might need to connect with me andor use the blueprint as a resource because how to work out who the primary caregiver is and whether or not that job's been shared is also covered in the blueprint.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be thinking that just because your other the other parent has been in the house around the kids most days, that that somehow means that the children need to be seeing that other parent every single day.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: That is not true.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Seeking professional guidance that prioritises child development, child safety and child well being incredibly important.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you would have heard me just in that sentence use the word child multiple times, and this is because the children are the ones with the rights here.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: The parents have the responsibilities, the children have the rights.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Your former partner does not have any legal quote unquote rights to access your kids.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's your children who have rights.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: So consider also how proposed arrangements will work in one month, six months, even several years down the track, not just next week.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Again, don't be tempted to agree to something thinking, oh look, if it doesn't work, we can just change it.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, you are far better off being really conservative in the beginning, particularly if there are any sorts of safety concerns whatsoever, even if you think that they're only minor, and particularly when we're talking about children under the age of five.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And mistake number five is accepting generic advice for your situation.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, many family law professionals lack adequate training in child development, attachment theory, trauma, and the specific challenges that kids of all ages face post separation.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: They often rely on outdated assumptions, ideological beliefs, biases, and also system pressures, rather than current research about what kids need and what is really in children's best interests post-separation.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: They might insist that your kids will quote unquote adapt, but at what cost?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Most separation advice treats all families as if they're more or less the same.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Parents with very young kids, neurodivergent kids, and those facing complex issues like family violence, substance abuse or mental health concerns are often given very generic suggestions for parenting arrangements and co-parenting strategies that often ignore their specific needs and individual best interests.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: This may shock you, but family law lawyers don't actually have training in child development, not even in what the research says about post-separation parenting arrangements.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Their training is on the law.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't be expecting that a family law professional has any understanding about what is in the best interests of children.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: You are going to be sorely disappointed and you will have paid hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars in the process.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now obviously this generic advice is harmful when there are safety concerns that require specialized approaches.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Also when kids have experienced any sort of trauma or abuse, if one parent has substance abuse issues, physical health issues or mental health issues, or if those things are just suspected.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: There can sometimes be cultural or religious considerations, and obviously if kids have additional needs requiring specialized support and care.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Look, everyone's situation is unique.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, of course, there are similarities.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the solutions for your family need to be designed for your family.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Cookie cutter approaches fail families on a daily basis, especially families that are dealing with slightly more complex circumstances that can increase risk to children.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: So what to do instead?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, seek out specialists who understand your specific circumstances.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Don't accept advice that doesn't feel right for your kids.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Get alternative guidance if something that you're being told just doesn't sit right.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Trust your expertise about your own kids and your situation.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And look for evidence-based approaches rather than generic one size fits all approaches.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And again, uh please do reach out.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Danielblackcoaching.com.au Look, you might be thinking that reaching any agreement is preferable to court proceedings.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, that's that's one of the most dangerous myths in family law.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's important is that you get it right.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: For your kids.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's the most important thing.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: For many of my clients, the best outcomes for themselves and for their children have been via the court system.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't agree to things just simply to avoid court at all costs.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: When avoiding court is your number one goal, what gets lost is the best interests of your children.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I have worked with people who have come to me after the fact seemingly happy that they avoided court, except when we unpack the fact that the parenting arrangements that they've been left with actually seriously undermine their children's well being and are likely to lead to long-term harm of some kind for their kids.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want you to be in that situation, and I certainly don't want your kids to be in that situation.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Advocating for your children even when it's difficult, even when it creates conflict, even when professionals pressure you to accept less is one of the most important acts of love and protection that you can provide.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are ready for more, obviously the post-separation parenting blueprint is an amazing support.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: It provides comprehensive evidence-based guidance to support you in creating arrangements that truly serve your children's needs, no matter their age or stage of development or the circumstances of your situation.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: One-on-one coaching, I've mentioned it throughout this mini podcast episode.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're here to help you understand your situation with greater depth and clarity, help you take back your control, and help you to protect yourself and your children.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because you don't have time to waste doing things that don't work or that are going to set problematic precedents and cause issues for you and your kids later on.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: So let's have a chat.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can book a one-on-one via the website.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: For too long, conversations about parenting arrangements after separation have been dominated by ideas of fairness for adults.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Having navigated my own complex separation and guided hundreds and hundreds of clients to successful outcomes, I now provide evidence-based strategies that prioritize kids' safety and their development over and above adult convenience and outdated ideologies.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: My specialist coach, who's working alongside me, works with me in helping Australian women with their separation, divorce and co-parenting journeys.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Very much aligned with my approach in the post-separation space, genuinely focusing on the needs and best interests of children as a priority, along with supporting women who are navigating separation with someone who is still attempting to exert control.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're here to help you.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: We have lived experience as well as years of professional experience.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: We get it, we're here with you in the trenches, and we are on a mission to help protective parents, protect their children, but even more broadly than that, we're on a mission to change the landscape of separation, divorce, co-parenting, and post-separation parenting arrangements in Australia.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: We want to live in a country where professionals who are genuinely child focused and who understand child development and the research around all of those things, we want to live in a country where that's the norm, not the exception.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of our broader mission.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And by listening to this now, by ultimately owning the post-separation blueprint for yourself, by utilising that, helping that to support you in protecting your kids, you know, you're not just advocating for your own children, you're also advocating for all other children.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: You're advocating for change.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to also be a change maker.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And for that, thank you so much.