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I Choose … to Age Like a Girl with Dr. Mindy Pelz · I Choose Me with Jennie Garth

0:01
Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl.
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Speaker 2: Hi.
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Speaker 1: Everyone, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all
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Speaker 1: about the choices we make and how they shape our lives. Today,
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Speaker 1: we're making a choice to embrace a brand new way
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Speaker 1: of thinking about aging with the incredible doctor Mendy Pels.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Mindy says menopause isn't the end of anything, It's
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Speaker 1: the beginning of everything. Her new book, Age Like a Girl,
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Speaker 1: blends neuroscience and psychology and invites women to transform the
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Speaker 1: next part of our lives into the most powerful chapter yet.
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Speaker 1: Please welcome doctor Mendy.
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Speaker 2: Dodor.
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Speaker 1: Mendy, you say that postmenopausal we have a new brain emerging.
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Speaker 1: I've never I've never heard it quite said like that.
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Speaker 1: What do you mean?
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Speaker 2: Oh? I love that you've never heard this, because this
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Speaker 2: is a ten year research project that I've been on
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Speaker 2: proving that menopause is actually working for us. And what
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Speaker 2: I mean by it is that the brain rewires itself.
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Speaker 2: With the drop in sex hormones, primarily estrogen, the brain
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Speaker 2: starts to take the neurons you no longer need. And
1:21
Speaker 2: you know what neurons you don't need anymore?
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Speaker 1: Which one?
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Speaker 2: You know? You don't need the people pleasing neurons. You
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Speaker 2: don't need. I'm going to fix everybody's life. Neurons Bye,
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Speaker 2: by neurons exactly all the things that kept us tethered
1:34
Speaker 2: to everybody else's opinion of us. Those neurons go away
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Speaker 2: to make room for new neurons that are setting you
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Speaker 2: up for more independent thinking, more leadership, more focused, better cognition.
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Speaker 2: These are all things that I discovered in this ten
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Speaker 2: year research project I call age like a girl.
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Speaker 1: Age like a girl. You've okay, you said ten years
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Speaker 1: you've been doing this, and that you also said that
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Speaker 1: this story is about your own journey and it's deeply personal.
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Speaker 3: Why Well, so, when I wanted to answer the question
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Speaker 3: of what was the purpose of menopause, I started to
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Speaker 3: see some statistics that were saying that if a woman's lucky,
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Speaker 3: she'll live about forty two point five percent of her
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Speaker 3: life post reproductively.
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Speaker 2: I also saw a statistic that said the most common
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Speaker 2: time for a woman to kill herself is between the
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Speaker 2: decade of forty five and fifty five. And mixed that
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Speaker 2: with I had a practice full of women in their
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Speaker 2: forties where they, on paper, everything in their life looked perfect,
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Speaker 2: But when I got in behind a closed door, they
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Speaker 2: would tell me things like I'm suicidal, I'm depressed all
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Speaker 2: the time. I'm thinking I'm gonna leave my husband, Like
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Speaker 2: really deep stuff was going on. So ten years ago,
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Speaker 2: I wanted to understand what was happening to the female
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Speaker 2: brain as a woman went through this massive neurocheml change.
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Speaker 2: And in that research, I actually found myself and I
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Speaker 2: found parts of me that I no longer wanted to
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Speaker 2: hold on to, the people pleasing parts, the codependent parts.
3:13
Speaker 2: I had to come to a realization that I had
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Speaker 2: a bit of a codependent nature, the parts that I
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Speaker 2: was trying to fix everybody around me. I mean, I
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Speaker 2: became a doctor and so I wanted to fix everybody's health,
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Speaker 2: and in that I realized I lost myself and that
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Speaker 2: I didn't have a relationship with myself. So it's deeply
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Speaker 2: personal because it started off as a research project, but
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Speaker 2: when I actually went to go write it, I realized
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Speaker 2: how much this was my journey.
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Speaker 1: Your journey, every woman's journey. I think we all reached
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Speaker 1: that age where we're like, what in the world do
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Speaker 1: I do? Now?
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Speaker 2: That's right, that's right?
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Speaker 1: Is this book only for menopausal women.
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Speaker 2: It's such a good question. So the absolute answer is no.
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Speaker 2: I want to tell you that the most interesting discussions
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Speaker 2: I've been having with this book are with thirty year
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Speaker 2: old women. There are so many thirty mid thirty year
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Speaker 2: old women, late thirty year old women that are saying
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Speaker 2: to me, thank you because I want to know how
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Speaker 2: to prepare for menopause.
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Speaker 1: Oh I love these women. We do these women have
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Speaker 1: the information that we didn't have.
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Speaker 2: Yes, thanks to you. Yeah, well, there's a bunch of
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Speaker 2: us out there trying to bring it forward. So but
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Speaker 2: then the other age group that I found is really
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Speaker 2: surprising are the seventy year olds. I've had a lot
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Speaker 2: of women online and in our membership group really expressed
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Speaker 2: that they went through menopause in silence, and they weren't
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Speaker 2: given a butterfly moment. They weren't told that their brain
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Speaker 2: was rewiring, and so things that I'm pointing out in
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Speaker 2: this book. They had strong hunches about and are finally
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Speaker 2: leaning into living life the way they want to live it.
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Speaker 1: This is so great. You say, menopause isn't a decline
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Speaker 1: at all. It's a transition into wisdom, leadership, and a
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Speaker 1: new brain. So for women listening, What does that mean
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Speaker 1: for who we're all becoming?
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Speaker 2: So I think the easiest way to explain that is
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Speaker 2: in the research I did. I dove into Lisa Mosconi's work,
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Speaker 2: and Lisa's work is she did. She wrote a book
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Speaker 2: called the Menopause Brain a couple of years back, and
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Speaker 2: she's one of the number one female brain researchers. And
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Speaker 2: the best way she explains it, and I love this,
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Speaker 2: is that a woman's brain will rewire itself three times
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Speaker 2: in her life, and these three times are all initiated
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Speaker 2: by a dramatic shift in hormones. So in this, when
5:48
Speaker 2: you start to think it through, it makes logical sense.
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Speaker 2: So at puberty, when estrogen comes in, the brain will
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Speaker 2: slough off, prune away the neurons that kept you attached
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Speaker 2: to a caregiver. So you were attached to your parent
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Speaker 2: or whoever was the person that was, you know, taking
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Speaker 2: you along, keeping you alive for most.
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Speaker 1: Of the time, right.
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Speaker 2: But then once you get your period. With having a
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Speaker 2: period comes the possibility of pregnancy. So your brain has
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Speaker 2: to rewire itself for independence and so that it can
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Speaker 2: think on its own. And any mother of a teenager,
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Speaker 2: me being one of them, will tell you, Yep, that's
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Speaker 2: exactly what happened. I had an adorable, you know girl
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Speaker 2: who all of a sudden looked at me like I
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Speaker 2: was the enemy. But now I understand that makes sense
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Speaker 2: because her brain rewired in order to start to become
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Speaker 2: more independent.
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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's right. So I mean, yeah, I've
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Speaker 1: seen it happen three times in my house, most recently.
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Speaker 1: Just with my new knowledge about the brain and the
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Speaker 1: estrogen how that impacts it, this is really making so
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Speaker 1: much sense.
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Speaker 2: Right, And that's I mean, that's been probably the greatest
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Speaker 2: experience I'm having with this book and these interviews, as
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Speaker 2: so many people are like, this makes sense. So postpartums
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Speaker 2: the second time, and what happens because we're so intelligently designed,
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Speaker 2: is that when the hormones crash after you deliver the baby,
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Speaker 2: your brain rewires itself again. It gets rid of those
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Speaker 2: neurons that told you where your keys were, that helped
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Speaker 2: you keep your task list in your head, that told
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Speaker 2: you why you walked into the other room. Those neurons
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Speaker 2: go away because you have a new purpose as a mom,
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Speaker 2: and that's to become highly intuitive as to what your
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Speaker 2: baby's needs are. Your baby doesn't talk, So you have
7:38
Speaker 2: to be able to have a strong intuition to be
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Speaker 2: able to understand what your baby needs from you. So
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Speaker 2: you become highly intuitive as the brain rewires itself for
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Speaker 2: that job.
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Speaker 1: Oh my god, my brain is a genius.
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Speaker 2: It is.
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Speaker 1: I didn't know what was doing. I didn't know it
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Speaker 1: was It had a plan, and I really thought I
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Speaker 1: was just I'm flying wild.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well this is what thank you. This is where
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Speaker 2: I get really excited because this is what I want
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Speaker 2: all women to see. So that leaves us with the
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Speaker 2: third time it rewires itself. So when estrogen drops in
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Speaker 2: your forties, when you're going through perimenopause, it's a signal
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Speaker 2: to get rid of the neurons you no longer need.
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Speaker 2: And you know what, neurons you no longer need, You
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Speaker 2: no longer need the people pleasing ones.
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Speaker 1: Would you go so far as to say that the
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Speaker 1: neuron that is you don't give a fuck what anybody else?
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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I don't give a fuck what you think.
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Speaker 2: Neurons start to grow because listeners. Yeah, sorry, the people
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Speaker 2: pleasing ones go away. But this is the thing, and
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Speaker 2: this is the big message I want to bring forward,
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Speaker 2: is what we know is the brain is rewiring itself
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Speaker 2: for leadership, and a good leader stands in their own
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Speaker 2: independent thinking. A good leader doesn't fall prey to everybody's
8:55
Speaker 2: thoughts about them. So you are literally I call it
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Speaker 2: a get out of jail for all of a sudden,
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Speaker 2: you don't care what everybody thinks of you because you're
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Speaker 2: getting a leadership brain. And at a time when we
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Speaker 2: are like worried that women are scared they're going to
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Speaker 2: go invisible because of wrinkles or gray hair, when I
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Speaker 2: look at the brain changes, I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
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Speaker 2: don't go invisible. We need the postmenopausal women with this
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Speaker 2: brain to stand up in independence, a thinking, and start
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Speaker 2: to lead. I look at the whole world in a
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Speaker 2: new direction. I really believe that postmenopausal brain is the
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Speaker 2: one that's here to save the day for us.
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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so here for it. Okay, let's
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Speaker 1: talk about the grandmother hypothesis, because I think that's what
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Speaker 1: you were just kind of talking about. Yeah, powerful idea
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Speaker 1: that women were designed to thrive after fertility. So explain
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Speaker 1: that to us.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I wanted to make sure that I backed
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Speaker 2: up this theory with lots of different things we know
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Speaker 2: about this process, and I think I've learned a lot
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Speaker 2: about studying the primal days. If we go back to
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Speaker 2: the hunter and gatherer days, this is how I found
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Speaker 2: fasting and what happens to the body. Back when we
10:12
Speaker 2: didn't have so much access to food, when we didn't
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Speaker 2: have the creature comforts we have, how did the human
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Speaker 2: body perform there? And I found something called the grandmother hypothesis,
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Speaker 2: and what it states is that when a woman went
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Speaker 2: into her post reproductive years she stopped menstruating, the tribe
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Speaker 2: knew it that she was a valuable member of society
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Speaker 2: of the clan. Now she became she needed to be
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Speaker 2: moved into a new position. And what they knew is
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Speaker 2: that because all the energy wasn't going towards her reproductive system,
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Speaker 2: this energy could start to go towards fitness, cognition, and
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Speaker 2: social leadership. And so back in the hunter gathered days,
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Speaker 2: it was the post metopausal woman that got moved to
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Speaker 2: a place of protecting the clan and going out and
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Speaker 2: foraging for food. Now we have to put our brains
11:08
Speaker 2: into primal days and realize that they didn't have door
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Speaker 2: dash and they didn't have refrigerators. They didn't have food
11:14
Speaker 2: was a really big concern. So the alpha males would
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Speaker 2: go off and do a big animal kill. They came
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Speaker 2: back with food three percent of the time, that's one
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Speaker 2: out of thirty days. Back at the cave, life was
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Speaker 2: the fertile women who were either pregnant and nursing, and
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Speaker 2: the toddlers and babies. Somebody had to feed them, and
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Speaker 2: so it was the grandmothers that gathered around and every
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Speaker 2: morning they would make a seven hour trek out into
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Speaker 2: the wilderness to go forge for food and bring food
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Speaker 2: back to feed the women and children that were left behind.
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Speaker 2: And the grandmother hypothesis says basically that these posts to
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Speaker 2: menopausal women were evolutionary heroines that we wouldn't you and
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Speaker 2: I would not be sitting here talking if it hadn't
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Speaker 2: been for the grandmothers bringing food to make sure that
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Speaker 2: the mother and the baby and the children didn't die.
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Speaker 2: Like our species may have never evolved if we didn't
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Speaker 2: have the power of the grandmother. Which is so fascinating
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Speaker 2: right now because so many women are scared of becoming invisible.
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Speaker 2: But back in the hunter gathered days. No, no, no,
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Speaker 2: you were going to your highest place of purpose.
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Speaker 1: Right, you were revered.
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Speaker 2: You were revered, Yes, And I think that.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I've grew up respecting my elders, like just
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Speaker 1: that's when my parents taught me, and I teach my
12:41
Speaker 1: girls that because I mean, there's so much wisdom, they
12:45
Speaker 1: have so much to offer, and it makes perfect sense.
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Speaker 1: Like when my daughter has a baby, my brain will
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Speaker 1: kick into that grandmother ysothesis and I will be able
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Speaker 1: to help her provide for her as she learns how
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Speaker 1: to provide for her child.
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Speaker 2: That's right, And it doesn't even have to be you
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Speaker 2: don't have to even have it as a grandmother. I
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Speaker 2: think this is a big part of the book is
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Speaker 2: that so much of how we act and behave as
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Speaker 2: women in this culture is determined by the expectation of
13:17
Speaker 2: the culture. So we could call it the patriarch. I
13:21
Speaker 2: look at the patriarch as just power over. But one
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Speaker 2: of the people I quoted in the book is Carol
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Speaker 2: Gilligan who discovered that back in the nineteen eighties, which
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Speaker 2: is when I was a teenager, that girls, when they
13:34
Speaker 2: moved into those post puberty years started to get taught
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Speaker 2: by the culture that you are good if you are selfless.
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Speaker 2: Her research was fascinating to me in this book because
13:48
Speaker 2: she looked at girls and boys at nine and she
13:51
Speaker 2: asked them different questions, like what do you want to eat?
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Speaker 2: And the boy would tell you exactly what he wants
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Speaker 2: to eat. The girl will tell you exactly what she
13:59
Speaker 2: wants to eat. By thirteen, you ask them that same question,
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Speaker 2: the boy will tell you what he wants to eat.
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Speaker 2: And now the girl's brain is rewired because estrogen has
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Speaker 2: come in and she'll say to you, I don't know
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Speaker 2: what are you gonna eat? And a large part of
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Speaker 2: that is because hormones change the way our brain operated.
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Speaker 2: And the culture said, you are worthy if you're this size,
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Speaker 2: if you look this way, if you act this way,
14:27
Speaker 2: and so we've all become great stewards of pleasing the culture.
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Speaker 2: But when the hormones go away, all of a sudden,
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Speaker 2: we're like, we don't give a fuck anymore, we don't
14:36
Speaker 2: care anymore. But it's bigger than that. We're exhausted trying
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Speaker 2: to play by a set of rules that some you know,
14:43
Speaker 2: cultures set for.
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Speaker 1: Us, and they just don't fit anymore.
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Speaker 2: It doesn't fit, it doesn't fit at all. So this
14:52
Speaker 2: is why so many women are waking up, and I
14:56
Speaker 2: think it can be scary if you've built your whole
14:59
Speaker 2: wor worth around that external validation. And this is why
15:05
Speaker 2: I put a whole section in the book of how
15:07
Speaker 2: do we help women start to step into their most
15:10
Speaker 2: authentic selves? How do you start speaking your voice if
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Speaker 2: you've never spoken your voice before?
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Speaker 1: Right?
15:16
Speaker 2: Right?
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Speaker 1: Yes, So for that woman who hears menopause and immediately
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Speaker 1: feels fear or loss or invisibility, like you said, what's
15:23
Speaker 1: the very first mindset shift you want photo?
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Speaker 2: So the first thing is this is a good process
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Speaker 2: that's happening to your brain. Things are changing, so hang
15:31
Speaker 2: in there. This isn't how your brain's going to be
15:34
Speaker 2: for the rest of your life. We really have a
15:36
Speaker 2: message right now that women are scared of dimension Alzheimer's.
15:40
Speaker 2: So the minute the memory goes or the brain fog
15:42
Speaker 2: kicks in, that's where their brain goes. And I want
15:44
Speaker 2: to repattern that and say, nope, it's like a brain
15:47
Speaker 2: I call it in the book a brain remodel project.
15:50
Speaker 2: And anybody who's ever remodeled anything in their house knows
15:55
Speaker 2: that the demolition of the old is exhausting and dusty
15:59
Speaker 2: and dirty, and sometimes feels like it's going to go
16:01
Speaker 2: on forever.
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Speaker 1: Such a great analogy.
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Speaker 2: That's what's happening to the brain. You can't remember, but
16:06
Speaker 2: don't hang in there. Your brain is reorganizing itself. It's
16:09
Speaker 2: remodeling itself. So that would be the first thing that
16:13
Speaker 2: I want women to understand. It's temporary and it's purposeful.
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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I have hope now, whereas before I thought, oh,
16:21
Speaker 1: this is my memory is just gone, and this is
16:23
Speaker 1: what my life is going to be like, I'm not
16:24
Speaker 1: going to know what I was saying five seconds ago.
16:27
Speaker 1: So I'm in a remodeling stage. How long does this go?
16:32
Speaker 1: How long is consisted?
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Speaker 2: Well, I need to know. Well, like many construction projects,
16:38
Speaker 2: a longer than you expect. So you know, they say
16:43
Speaker 2: it's about ten years, and I think all of us
16:47
Speaker 2: that would probably knock us out right there understanding that
16:50
Speaker 2: this remodel project goes ten years. But I want to
16:54
Speaker 2: offer a different solution for that too, And I did
16:58
Speaker 2: this in part two of the book, where I wanted
17:00
Speaker 2: to show people that you actually are a neurochemical being,
17:05
Speaker 2: and so as you're going through this process, there are
17:09
Speaker 2: behaviors you can do to get your brain back on track.
17:14
Speaker 2: So let's use memory as one. One of the major
17:18
Speaker 2: neurotransmitters that estrogen stimulates is a transmitter called aceta colin,
17:24
Speaker 2: and aceta coling is the neurotransmitter that gets stimulated when
17:29
Speaker 2: you tell a story. When you go to tell a story,
17:33
Speaker 2: you force your brain, especially if it was a story
17:36
Speaker 2: in the past, it has to dip into a part
17:39
Speaker 2: of the brain called the hippocampus that's where Alzheimer's lives.
17:43
Speaker 2: And so if you constantly are sharing stories, and there's
17:47
Speaker 2: a lot of different ways we can do this, you're
17:50
Speaker 2: constantly asking your brain to make more aceta coling, so
17:54
Speaker 2: you're keeping your memory sharp. You're allowing those neurons to
17:58
Speaker 2: be bathed in this neurotrans admitted that estrogen just naturally
18:02
Speaker 2: produced for you. Now you've got to go produce it
18:05
Speaker 2: for yourself. And on the on the storytelling one, I
18:09
Speaker 2: think we all know have a parent. Mine is my mom,
18:13
Speaker 2: who is eighty six and tells the same story over
18:16
Speaker 2: and over and over again, and we all roll our eyes,
18:19
Speaker 2: and you know, we've gone through the phase of like, Mom,
18:21
Speaker 2: you've told us that story before, but now that I
18:24
Speaker 2: understand what she's doing, she's actually bathing her brain in
18:28
Speaker 2: a seat of coaling. I actually play along.
18:31
Speaker 1: Now, Oh my gosh, this is incredible. Okay, my mom
18:35
Speaker 1: just moved in and she's eighty four. Yes, and you're
18:41
Speaker 1: so right. And sometimes, you know, you don't want to
18:44
Speaker 1: listen to that same story over and over again, but
18:46
Speaker 1: you just shifted my whole perception and that is something
18:50
Speaker 1: that she needs.
18:50
Speaker 2: That's right. So you know what I do with my mom,
18:54
Speaker 2: I ask her new parts of the story so that
18:57
Speaker 2: she has to make more a seat of coling, so
19:00
Speaker 2: she has to go deeper into that memory bank. And
19:03
Speaker 2: I'll say things like, yeah, you know you've mentioned that before,
19:06
Speaker 2: but you know what the part of the story I've
19:07
Speaker 2: never heard is this, Or I go back to some
19:11
Speaker 2: things I've gone with my mom. I've gone back a
19:14
Speaker 2: lot and been like, you know, I don't ever remember
19:17
Speaker 2: you telling me about X, Y and Z, and really storytelling, now,
19:22
Speaker 2: I look at is a way of keeping her brain.
19:24
Speaker 1: Sharp, interesting, interesting. So estrogen's decline affects a powerful what
19:32
Speaker 1: you call girl gang of brain chemicals dopamine, serotonin, GABBA, oxytocin, BDNF,
19:38
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is, and others.
19:41
Speaker 2: So in my research, what I found is, and at
19:44
Speaker 2: first glances sounds horrible, but stick with me here. We're
19:48
Speaker 2: not just losing a couple of sex hormones. Actually, over
19:52
Speaker 2: twelve major neurochemicals are affected, and estrogen specifically stimulated dopamine
19:59
Speaker 2: and serotonin. So dopamine was our motivator. So that's super
20:04
Speaker 2: important because I heard I've heard so many women in
20:06
Speaker 2: their mid forties to late forties tell me I'm just
20:10
Speaker 2: not motivated anymore. That's a loss of dopamine. Serotonin is
20:14
Speaker 2: what keeps us happy, and so you know, a lot
20:17
Speaker 2: of women are walking around depressed and not realizing that
20:20
Speaker 2: their serotonin levels are low. But like serotonin, one of
20:25
Speaker 2: the easiest ways to get serotonin is we have serotonin
20:28
Speaker 2: receptor sites in our eyes where we take midday light
20:32
Speaker 2: and we make it into serotonin through our eyes.
20:38
Speaker 1: Oh that's how cool we are.
20:39
Speaker 2: I just want to point out.
20:40
Speaker 1: This is like, wow, we are so complex. So you
20:44
Speaker 1: so instead of reaching for a drug to fix this problem,
20:49
Speaker 1: this would be a first up. What you're recommending, go outside.
20:52
Speaker 2: Go outside without your sunglasses on at the like the
20:56
Speaker 2: height of the sun noon one o'clock, depending on the
20:59
Speaker 2: time of year, go for a twenty minute walk. Walking
21:02
Speaker 2: is going to lower cortisol, and now your body knows
21:05
Speaker 2: how to use that light and turn it into serotonin.
21:08
Speaker 2: Just don't put your sunglasses.
21:09
Speaker 1: On, okay, because that blocks locks in.
21:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, so serotonin we can. There's a lot I have
21:15
Speaker 2: in the book. I have a lot of ways to
21:17
Speaker 2: bring each one of these back. Gaba is interesting because
21:20
Speaker 2: gaba is what calmed us and now get you know estrogen,
21:24
Speaker 2: both estrogen and progesterone stimulated gabba. But there's a lot
21:28
Speaker 2: of breathing techniques you can do to bring GABA back.
21:31
Speaker 2: Like a lot of people are into the box breathing
21:34
Speaker 2: four seven eight breathing. These are not complicated. I love them. Yeah,
21:38
Speaker 2: breath So those kind of breathing techniques will bring GABA back.
21:42
Speaker 2: Oxytocin is a really interesting one because I think you
21:45
Speaker 2: a lot of women resonate with this where we just
21:49
Speaker 2: don't feel like we can connect to the superficiality anymore.
21:56
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that's that kind of aligns with not ye
22:00
Speaker 1: what you know, and also it aligns with our ability
22:03
Speaker 1: to now at this age, be able to say that's right.
22:05
Speaker 1: More like, do I don't want to go to that
22:08
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't need to go out tonight. I
22:11
Speaker 1: don't need to go to that dot that's already because.
22:12
Speaker 2: That's all going to be small talk. Small talk's exhausting
22:15
Speaker 2: to the menopausal brain, especially as it's remodeling itself. But
22:19
Speaker 2: I'd rather sit home and have a deep conversation with
22:21
Speaker 2: my spouse or my friends, or hang out with myself
22:25
Speaker 2: because we are searching for oxytocin in a much deeper way.
22:30
Speaker 2: So this is why relationships are changing. This is why
22:33
Speaker 2: you know, I believe grave divorce has become so popular
22:37
Speaker 2: is because a lot of women are turning to their
22:39
Speaker 2: spouses and saying, Okay, we need to go deeper now,
22:42
Speaker 2: and some of those spouses aren't aren't able to emotionally
22:46
Speaker 2: meet the menopausal woman there.
22:49
Speaker 1: Okay, what happens in that case? What happens when we
22:52
Speaker 1: as women want to go deeper and we need more
22:55
Speaker 1: meaningful connection from our spouse. Are our men just not
22:59
Speaker 1: you know I've heard before they're not wired that way
23:01
Speaker 1: or that's the difference between a man and a woman's brain.
23:04
Speaker 1: Is there something for men that they can do or
23:07
Speaker 1: some science behind is their mind?
23:10
Speaker 2: James James developing Yes, yeah, well the first yeah, well
23:15
Speaker 2: for startings, the male physiology is not my expertise, but
23:18
Speaker 2: I but from what I know, they are not. Their
23:22
Speaker 2: brain does not rewire because they're meant to actually have
23:25
Speaker 2: tests the same level of testosterone all the way till
23:28
Speaker 2: the day they die, which is really crazy to think about,
23:32
Speaker 2: Like what's the primal reason behind that? Like they just
23:35
Speaker 2: stay fertile their whole life. Now environmental factors are changing
23:39
Speaker 2: that now. So so the first thing is you need
23:43
Speaker 2: to get your man caught up to speed in what's
23:46
Speaker 2: going on with your brain. So in the book, I
23:49
Speaker 2: actually did an appendix to men where because I thought
23:52
Speaker 2: a lot of women would read it, find themselves and
23:55
Speaker 2: then be like, how do I explain this to my husband?
23:57
Speaker 2: So I synthesized it into one ch so get educated.
24:02
Speaker 2: And then I really call it invite the man into
24:07
Speaker 2: your menopausal experience. And this one's really important because this
24:11
Speaker 2: is not about bitching or nagging or yelling or screaming
24:14
Speaker 2: at him, which I think we all have done as
24:17
Speaker 2: our brain has been remodeling. It's more using words like
24:22
Speaker 2: you know, you can use the remodel, like my brain
24:24
Speaker 2: is remodeling. I can't remember that my brain is remodeling.
24:27
Speaker 2: I can't handle that stress.
24:29
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I'm loving this new right.
24:31
Speaker 2: My brain is remodeling. So I need you to use
24:34
Speaker 2: some of your feeling words, like tell me how you're feeling.
24:37
Speaker 2: A lot of men have not been taught how to
24:40
Speaker 2: express feeling. They've been damaged by the patriarch as much
24:44
Speaker 2: as women have. Men are taught if you say your feelings,
24:47
Speaker 2: that's weak and don't be a weak man. So there's
24:50
Speaker 2: a lot of deep conversations that need to be had
24:54
Speaker 2: with spouses so that we can start to have better conversations.
24:59
Speaker 2: But it will I'll take a little bit of retraining
25:02
Speaker 2: of your partner, but it's going to got to come
25:04
Speaker 2: through the lens of compassion and understanding from you, not
25:08
Speaker 2: from pointing your finger at them. I brought on two
25:12
Speaker 2: relationship experts onto my podcast in preparation for the release
25:17
Speaker 2: of this book because I know a lot of women
25:19
Speaker 2: are going to ask, and one of them is a male.
25:23
Speaker 2: He Both of them work with couples, and one of
25:25
Speaker 2: them specializes in helping the man in the couple and
25:30
Speaker 2: Terry Real. I don't know if you've heard of him, no,
25:33
Speaker 2: but I'm gonna go look him up and Jillian Treki,
25:37
Speaker 2: who is also beautiful. So what I would say is
25:41
Speaker 2: this isn't a moment to feel vindicated with your spouse.
25:46
Speaker 2: It's a moment to express who you are now and
25:50
Speaker 2: how you're changing, and to tell your spouse what you need.
25:55
Speaker 2: I can tell you my husband and I met at
25:57
Speaker 2: twenty one and I'm fifty six now. And one thing
26:01
Speaker 2: that has been helpful for us in our marriage is
26:04
Speaker 2: we started to label different parts of our marriage. So
26:08
Speaker 2: before kids is marriage one point oh, with kids as
26:12
Speaker 2: marriage two point oh. And what we're in right now
26:15
Speaker 2: an empty nest, it's marriage three point oh. So there's
26:19
Speaker 2: a lot of discussion like in marriage three point oh,
26:22
Speaker 2: I behave like this now in marriage three point oh.
26:25
Speaker 2: Here's what feels good to me in your reaction to
26:28
Speaker 2: me now. So we were able to sort of wipe
26:31
Speaker 2: the slate clean as opposed to bringing thirty years of
26:35
Speaker 2: being together into this experience. It was almost like our
26:38
Speaker 2: way of a do over. So there are real positive
26:42
Speaker 2: ways you can talk to your spouse, but they have
26:45
Speaker 2: to understand the process, which is why I'm hoping the
26:47
Speaker 2: appendix will help.
26:48
Speaker 1: Okay, my question is there are a lot of women
26:50
Speaker 1: in my position who had a long marriage, had children
26:54
Speaker 1: with a guy, a man the father of their babies,
26:56
Speaker 1: and then ended up getting a divorce. Now they would
26:59
Speaker 1: be what is known as your three point zero of
27:03
Speaker 1: that relationship. But they're starting all over again with a
27:06
Speaker 1: guy who's not hasn't had that Perhaps. I know in
27:09
Speaker 1: my situation, my husband had never had his own children.
27:13
Speaker 1: He came in and became a stepdad.
27:15
Speaker 2: What version of.
27:17
Speaker 1: Our marriage would we fall into? Because I feel like
27:20
Speaker 1: I'm in three brain.
27:22
Speaker 2: But well, I mean, I can tell you what a
27:26
Speaker 2: lot of my friends who are in that position are
27:28
Speaker 2: doing is starting off the relationship expressing what they need. Now,
27:34
Speaker 2: that's what the brain has rewired your brain. Your brain
27:37
Speaker 2: is rewiring to speak what you need. So if you
27:40
Speaker 2: need more alone time, express it. If you need to
27:45
Speaker 2: sleep in separate bedrooms because you're not sleeping well, then
27:48
Speaker 2: express it. If you need to make sure you have
27:51
Speaker 2: plenty of time with your girlfriends, express it. So a
27:54
Speaker 2: lot of women going into these new relationships are finding
27:58
Speaker 2: so much peace because they have the courage to finally
28:01
Speaker 2: say what they want. The last thing you want to
28:03
Speaker 2: do is recreate what you didn't want in the last relationship.
28:07
Speaker 2: So I think it's always about speaking your truth. And
28:12
Speaker 2: when you get to the other side of menopause, you
28:14
Speaker 2: have a truth speaking brain, so use it. If you
28:17
Speaker 2: think about all these new neurons, I call them baby neurons,
28:20
Speaker 2: that the old grumpy neurons, the people believing neurons, go
28:23
Speaker 2: away and you have these new baby neurons. Now train
28:26
Speaker 2: those baby neurons. And the more you speak your truth,
28:29
Speaker 2: the easier and the easier it's going to become. But
28:32
Speaker 2: in any relationship, when women specifically don't speak their truth,
28:38
Speaker 2: they become resentful, and resentful starts to push it down
28:43
Speaker 2: until one day it all blows up. One of my
28:46
Speaker 2: favorite conversations I had this year was with Julie Gottman,
28:50
Speaker 2: who's a marriage expert, and she explained to me that
28:54
Speaker 2: women start to get depressed in relationships and resentful in
28:58
Speaker 2: relationships when they say yes to the things they wanted
29:02
Speaker 2: to say no to. So what I'm seeing in these
29:05
Speaker 2: new marriages that that are and relationships that are popping
29:09
Speaker 2: up postmenopausally is there you are dealing with a truth
29:14
Speaker 2: telling woman. Your brain is wired for that. So speak
29:18
Speaker 2: your truth and if you're with a partner that doesn't
29:21
Speaker 2: love that, then you're with the wrong partner.
29:24
Speaker 1: M yeah, okay, I mean loud and clear, right yeah
29:29
Speaker 1: that lad? Yeah yeah okay. So you say the final stage,
29:33
Speaker 1: butterflying yourself is all about the emotional reinvention and the
29:37
Speaker 1: truth telling. Like you were just mentioning, what does that
29:39
Speaker 1: inner work look like in real life? Like how how
29:42
Speaker 1: does it help women rewrite the narrative of aging from
29:46
Speaker 1: the inside out.
29:47
Speaker 2: So what I think a lot of women start to
29:49
Speaker 2: feel are feelings like rage. Let's talk about that for
29:54
Speaker 2: a moment. There's a lot of women who go through
29:58
Speaker 2: this process and so much anger comes out. I would
30:04
Speaker 2: say depressions another really big one that a lot of
30:06
Speaker 2: women experience. And yes, we can put it at the
30:10
Speaker 2: neurotransmitter level, or we can start to ask ourselves questions
30:13
Speaker 2: of like what are you mad about? What are you
30:16
Speaker 2: angry about? Like sit with yourself and just be like,
30:19
Speaker 2: what are you really angry about? Some women might need
30:23
Speaker 2: to get therapy. I put a bunch of lists of
30:25
Speaker 2: different types of ways that you therapies and styles that
30:29
Speaker 2: you can dip into in this process. But there has
30:32
Speaker 2: to be a moment of self inquiry. If we look
30:35
Speaker 2: at those symptoms as I just want them to go away,
30:38
Speaker 2: then you miss the moment. The moment is here to
30:41
Speaker 2: help you build the best life you can possibly live
30:45
Speaker 2: at the back end of your life. So if you're depressed,
30:48
Speaker 2: what is it in your life right now that's not working?
30:52
Speaker 2: Can you get rid of that? If you're anxious, maybe
30:56
Speaker 2: something going forward in your life is you're not looking
30:59
Speaker 2: for to doing that, So what can you do to
31:01
Speaker 2: get rid of it? The rage? I think a lot
31:03
Speaker 2: of women are rageful because the patriarch has taught us
31:06
Speaker 2: that you are not worthy if you're not a size
31:08
Speaker 2: too and you don't and you have a wrinkle on
31:10
Speaker 2: your face goodbye. Like, we have a lot of feelings
31:14
Speaker 2: about that. So I think getting in touch with that
31:18
Speaker 2: is really important. I you know, you back to the
31:20
Speaker 2: first question you asked me this year was writing this
31:24
Speaker 2: book was so hard because I had to address all
31:28
Speaker 2: those things I just mentioned to you, Like where's that
31:31
Speaker 2: anger coming from? What have I created in my life
31:35
Speaker 2: that doesn't fit me anymore? So? Butterflying yourself is actually
31:41
Speaker 2: sitting down and realizing that your brain has changed, and
31:45
Speaker 2: this is an incredible opportunity to address some of these
31:49
Speaker 2: deep feelings that you have and deep behaviors that you
31:53
Speaker 2: don't want to engage in anymore. Can we start to
31:56
Speaker 2: address those and heal those.
31:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that because that will just lead you
32:02
Speaker 1: into what happens so much is that reinvention as people
32:06
Speaker 1: call it, that that's what happens at a certain age.
32:15
Speaker 1: I want to go back, though, because you said something
32:17
Speaker 1: about rage, and ironically enough, I was at a speaking
32:20
Speaker 1: event last night and I felt the rage, and I
32:23
Speaker 1: was like, what is why am I feeling this? There
32:25
Speaker 1: was a room full of people, but there was one
32:28
Speaker 1: table off to my left that was a group of
32:31
Speaker 1: older men and we were talking about women's health, and
32:35
Speaker 1: they were checked out. They didn't even they didn't care,
32:39
Speaker 1: they weren't listening, and I kept finding myself speaking directly
32:44
Speaker 1: to them to see how it was landing, because I
32:46
Speaker 1: was trying to figure it out. And then I just
32:48
Speaker 1: stopped wasting my time because I realized they don't They're
32:51
Speaker 1: just not available to I don't care. So that was
32:55
Speaker 1: that made me very angry.
32:57
Speaker 2: So this is a beautiful example because the anger not
33:00
Speaker 2: just be because of that group of men, but how
33:03
Speaker 2: many groups of men in your life, haven't been paying
33:07
Speaker 2: attention to you as a woman. I mean, so many
33:09
Speaker 2: of us can can feel that, and I think that's
33:14
Speaker 2: the rage is one where we can start. How you
33:17
Speaker 2: cure yourself of that is to continue to speak your truth, like,
33:21
Speaker 2: don't stay silent anymore. We have been raised in a
33:25
Speaker 2: culture that doesn't like angry women, doesn't like opinionated women.
33:31
Speaker 2: We like our women to be beautiful and calm and
33:33
Speaker 2: sweet and don't rock the boat. So so many of
33:36
Speaker 2: us have been holding in things we want to say
33:39
Speaker 2: to men, to the culture. And then you get in
33:42
Speaker 2: a talk and you get a group of men who
33:44
Speaker 2: aren't paying attention to you, and you've got a lifetime
33:47
Speaker 2: of unsaid in business going on in your body. And then,
33:52
Speaker 2: because to me, rage is an action oriented anger, you
33:55
Speaker 2: weren't just angry, you were like built up rage about
34:00
Speaker 2: I got to do something about this, and you know
34:02
Speaker 2: you're giving a speech. It's hard to do that, But
34:04
Speaker 2: I think I think women should become rageful. I think
34:07
Speaker 2: we have. We have reason to feel like we've been
34:11
Speaker 2: marginalized and one of the things and we've been taught
34:14
Speaker 2: that we're worthy only if you tell us we're beautiful
34:18
Speaker 2: or you tell us we're a super mom, or you
34:20
Speaker 2: tell us we're a badass career woman. Like what if
34:24
Speaker 2: I'm just a kind human? Can't that be worthy enough?
34:28
Speaker 2: So the marker of success and worth in this culture
34:32
Speaker 2: is so backwards and it's so inconsistent for women compared
34:37
Speaker 2: to two men. We have a higher we have a
34:39
Speaker 2: higher benchmark that we've got to meet.
34:42
Speaker 1: It's just tota and getting angrier as we're speaking. But
34:46
Speaker 1: what do I do with this anger? Because I don't
34:48
Speaker 1: want to walk around full of rage. I don't want
34:51
Speaker 1: to walk around angry because I know that's not good
34:53
Speaker 1: for my health. I know that raises my cortisol levels.
34:56
Speaker 1: I know that it's not good for me being as
35:00
Speaker 1: beautiful from the inside out as I.
35:01
Speaker 2: Want to be. Well. So the first thing is you
35:03
Speaker 2: express it, you know, don't suppress it anymore. And you
35:08
Speaker 2: could express it, you know, you get off this call,
35:10
Speaker 2: call a friend. Journal Journaling is really powerful. Just write
35:13
Speaker 2: down everything that you're feeling and just get it off.
35:18
Speaker 2: That's what I want is women to just get it off,
35:21
Speaker 2: like speak it, get it out, because we've been pushing
35:23
Speaker 2: it down, and when you push it down, that's the
35:25
Speaker 2: most unhealthy version of anger. That's where you get autoimmune
35:30
Speaker 2: disease and cancer and things like that. So we need
35:33
Speaker 2: to find creative ways to express it. I think that
35:37
Speaker 2: in the book, I have something that I love I
35:39
Speaker 2: call the Lime Tree, which is where women. It's a
35:42
Speaker 2: metaphor and you can read the whole story in the book,
35:44
Speaker 2: but it's a metaphor where women gather. I think we
35:48
Speaker 2: need to gather as women in heal now. I think
35:50
Speaker 2: we need to bring this into the light and talk
35:52
Speaker 2: about what it's like to be a woman in a
35:55
Speaker 2: patriarchal society. I can tell you I've sat with a
35:59
Speaker 2: lot of celebrities and unfortunately, you guys even get it
36:02
Speaker 2: even worse, the expectation that even your fans have on
36:06
Speaker 2: like how you should look and behave and be in.
36:09
Speaker 1: The minute you step outside of that, yeah, it's not anymore.
36:14
Speaker 1: You're not They're not a fan anymore.
36:16
Speaker 3: They're not.
36:16
Speaker 2: Like our celebrities are held to the highest level of
36:20
Speaker 2: patriarchal expectation than any other human a female celebrity in
36:25
Speaker 2: my opinion, and I've worked with a lot of them,
36:28
Speaker 2: So I think we have to express it. It's the
36:30
Speaker 2: first thing. Sometimes you have to go back and see
36:33
Speaker 2: where it came from. And then just in full transparency
36:37
Speaker 2: in my journey with this, I realized I had a
36:40
Speaker 2: lot of rage at men. And when I went back
36:43
Speaker 2: in therapy I started working with an E. M. D. R. Therapist,
36:47
Speaker 2: I realized it was actually initiated by my dad. And
36:51
Speaker 2: my dad threatened to hit us. He you know, told
36:54
Speaker 2: me it was too much. I was naughty all the time,
36:58
Speaker 2: and so I conform to what he wanted me to be.
37:01
Speaker 2: And I have some feelings about that, and so any
37:04
Speaker 2: man that comes in and triggers that in me starts
37:07
Speaker 2: to build the rage. So I went to therapy. So
37:11
Speaker 2: therapy is always a good place. And then I think,
37:13
Speaker 2: like back to the lime tree. As women, we need
37:16
Speaker 2: to gather around each other and talk about this, just
37:19
Speaker 2: like what you and I are doing. We've actually are
37:22
Speaker 2: going to turn the book. We're in the process of
37:24
Speaker 2: taking the concepts in the book and turning them into
37:27
Speaker 2: conversation cards so that we can start to open up
37:32
Speaker 2: the conversation. Because where women are getting sick in all
37:36
Speaker 2: of this is in the suppression of their voice.
37:40
Speaker 1: Yes, I believe that too. I can't I need those cards.
37:44
Speaker 2: They're coming in twenty twenty six.
37:46
Speaker 1: I love that that's going to be great, and you've
37:48
Speaker 1: inspired me, like I am at the place where I
37:52
Speaker 1: want to have those conversations with women that are in
37:54
Speaker 1: similar situations, and I want to know what they've suppressed
37:58
Speaker 1: over the years, and I want them to also able
38:00
Speaker 1: to express it in a safe group of women that
38:03
Speaker 1: you know, instead of losing their mind in front of
38:06
Speaker 1: a guy, a man, it's better, it's safer to do
38:08
Speaker 1: it in a gathering.
38:11
Speaker 2: We were primarily designed to connect with each other as
38:15
Speaker 2: we go through this, more than any other time in
38:17
Speaker 2: our life. We were primarily designed to get with other
38:21
Speaker 2: women and do this as a group of women. This
38:25
Speaker 2: should not be a solo journey. So if you look
38:28
Speaker 2: at the grandmother hypothesis, what did the grandmothers do? They
38:32
Speaker 2: didn't individually go out and forge for food. They came
38:35
Speaker 2: together as a group and went and got food. They
38:39
Speaker 2: protected the clan together. And I really believe that that's
38:43
Speaker 2: part of this rewirement, is how for so long we've
38:47
Speaker 2: been competing with each other, how about now we come
38:49
Speaker 2: together and heal with each other. And you know the
38:53
Speaker 2: Okinawa women that we put them on a pedestal, do
38:56
Speaker 2: you know. At the heart of what they do is
38:58
Speaker 2: they create moaes and MOA's are where these women gather
39:02
Speaker 2: together and they share resources. So if one woman doesn't
39:06
Speaker 2: have a house, they invite that woman into her home.
39:09
Speaker 2: If another woman doesn't have food, they invite them over
39:11
Speaker 2: for dinner, and they get together and play games and connect.
39:15
Speaker 2: And everybody in the village knows that if you want
39:19
Speaker 2: good advice, you go to the MOEI that these group
39:23
Speaker 2: of wise elders are there to teach you the core
39:26
Speaker 2: principles of life. That's what I want to bring back
39:29
Speaker 2: culturally for the world is how do we come together
39:33
Speaker 2: and heal each other and stand up in this real, powerful, bold, independent,
39:39
Speaker 2: unique way that we can do this so the world
39:42
Speaker 2: knows where to find the leaders, because at this particular moment,
39:45
Speaker 2: the leaders that are showing up are pretty defective.
39:52
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, it's funny creating a community. My best
39:56
Speaker 1: friend Adela and I have talked about that before. We
39:58
Speaker 1: just want to move some way and have our own
40:01
Speaker 1: little town. Yes yeah, women, yes, just as girls.
40:05
Speaker 2: And when we are doing that, people are doing that.
40:08
Speaker 1: Are I've seen that I'm really want I mean that
40:11
Speaker 1: seems like, yeah, it's a big change. Probably I don't
40:15
Speaker 1: know if I can do it yet, but it's in
40:17
Speaker 1: you're design to do it.
40:18
Speaker 2: It would be once you got your wrap, your mind
40:20
Speaker 2: wrapped around the how it's it's were meant to come
40:24
Speaker 2: together as women. We're not this is the time. This one.
40:28
Speaker 2: You hear Jane Fonda say that she wouldn't even exist
40:31
Speaker 2: without her girlfriends, And I think there's so many women
40:34
Speaker 2: at this phase of life that say the same thing.
40:36
Speaker 2: They're like, I can't even breathe without my bestie. And
40:40
Speaker 2: and that's part of the brain rewirement is we go
40:43
Speaker 2: to other women for this. Oxytocin hit, Yes, oxytocin.
40:50
Speaker 1: This has been such an incredible conversation, doctor Mindy. I
40:53
Speaker 1: want to thank you so much for helping all of
40:55
Speaker 1: us to choose a new way of thinking about aging.
40:59
Speaker 1: I know, well, I have some things to think about.
41:02
Speaker 2: Excellent.
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Speaker 1: After that, I love station and I thank you for that.
41:05
Speaker 1: But before I let you go, doctor Mendy pals, what
41:09
Speaker 1: was your last I Choose me moment?
41:11
Speaker 2: Well, okay, I'm going to tell you the last I
41:13
Speaker 2: Choose me moment that was really really big for me.
41:16
Speaker 2: This year. I had a tough year. I was in
41:20
Speaker 2: LA when the fires hit, my whole neighborhood burned. It
41:23
Speaker 2: was just chaos. And so what I did is for
41:27
Speaker 2: four months, I isolated myself and I made a decision
41:31
Speaker 2: to go and live by myself, write this book, and
41:34
Speaker 2: get to know myself. And I found that when I
41:38
Speaker 2: got myself out of the environment of my family, even
41:41
Speaker 2: out of the environment of my friends, that I started
41:44
Speaker 2: to have a relationship with me again. So I Choose
41:47
Speaker 2: Me moment was huge this year. It was isolating and
41:51
Speaker 2: finally getting to know me so that I can bring
41:54
Speaker 2: back a new version to all my relationships.
41:57
Speaker 1: Incredible, Probably one of the best top five I Choose
42:00
Speaker 1: Me moments. Age Like a Girl is out now. You
42:04
Speaker 1: can buy it wherever you buy books or listen on
42:07
Speaker 1: audible or on your Libby app.
42:09
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you, Jenny