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Anchored in Faith with David E. Prince · The Defender Podcast

• 0:02
  Herbie Newell: Welcome to the defender podcast, a resource to help mobilize and equip the body of Christ to manifest the gospel to orphans and vulnerable children. This podcast is a ministry of Lifeline Children Services, and I'm your host, Herbie Newell.
• 0:23
  Dr. Rick Morton: It's October 30, 2024. I'm Rick Morton, and this is the Defender Podcast. We're happy where you're with us today. Thanks for joining us again on the Defender Podcast. We've got a good episode for you today.
• 0:37
  Have an opportunity to sit down with my friend, doctor David Prince. We had a conversation back at the Southern Baptist Convention this summer and really talking about, just staying grounded in faith, by reflecting on on God's love and and and God's activity. We talk about the call to care for vulnerable children, the how, living out the gospel means embodying values like adoption, compassion that mirror God's character and mission into the world, with a lot of pressures that are coming around us, with a lot of things that are challenging our foundational beliefs on marriage and family. We spend some time talking about the church's role to support and serve others. And, and and so I hope you'll tune in and join us.
• 1:33
  David Prince is, he's the pastor of Preaching and Vision at the Ashland Avenue Baptist Church in Lexington, Kentucky. He also serves as as an assistant professor of preaching at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He's, the author of a couple of books, including In the Arena, which is one of my favorites. David is a is a sportsman, and he talks about the intersection of faith in sports. He also wrote the book, Church with Jesus is the Hero.
• 2:02
  He, he is a frequent writer for, publications such as the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, for the church, the BGEA, and Preaching Today. He has his MDiv from Southwestern Theological Seminary and his PhD from Southern. David's married to Judy, which that is probably the best accolade that I can give him. They have 8 children, 3 boys, 5 girls. David is a baseball nut.
• 2:32
  He loves the Braves, and he loves Alabama football and basketball, and we have all of that in common. So we, we have an inordinately amount of, of good fun when we're hanging together and, and talking sports. He is a great dad, enjoys playing sports with his kids or reading, and, and David's somebody that if you ever have the opportunity to get to know, would love for you to, to do that because he is he's a pastor that loves his people and, and he's a pastor that, that shepherds them well. And, before we get into this conversation today, though, I want to make a a point of highlighting, that Lifeline wants to support the church as well by helping churches to participate in orphan Sunday, a day dedicated to raising awareness about the plight of the fatherless. Each year, there are hundreds of churches that partner with Lifeline to speak up for orphans and vulnerable children around the world.
• 3:34
  With resources like videos, prayer cards, sample sermons, and small group guides, Lifeline equips churches to share God's call, to care for the father, listen, to find practical ways to respond. Though we may not all be able to adopt or foster, Orphan Sunday encourages everyone to take action and to support these precious children. You can learn more at lifelinechild.org/orphin or you can check our show notes for more information. That's lifelinechild.org back slash orphan, or you can check on the at the show notes, and we'll be excited to be able to help you and your church this year, as you commemorate Orphan Sunday. Well, we are at that point to turn to our interview.
• 4:19
  And so without further ado, here is my conversation with doctor David Prince back in June at the Southern Baptist Convention, as he talks a little bit about shepherding a church to care for the vulnerable and to do it in ways that magnify Jesus. I'm really glad to be with, you here today. Man, so so thankful for, just for for you, for your church, for the partnership that we've been able to have over the years, friendship, and and just, thankful as a pastor for the the way that you lead your congregation, the way you lead your people. Yeah. I, it is evident to me, and it's always been evident to me how much how much you love the people that you shepherd.
• 5:05
  And, and that is, that is a that is a in in these days and times, we were just talking about where a lot of things seem like fruit basket turner turnover and seem up for grabs, that that's a that's an incredible gift, to see a pastor that loves his people as much as you do. And so thanks for that example.
• 5:24
  David E. Prince: Well, I appreciate that. And, I tell you what, I'm certainly loved by my people. And so, I, try to wake up every morning and, never take that for granted. Yeah. It's a real blessing.
• 5:35
  Dr. Rick Morton: Well, you know, we were we were talking actually in as as we were before before we actually turn the sound on here about just the the challenges of our world. The the, you know, it seems like it doesn't matter where we turn or where we look in in these days that there is there's just turmoil and chaos and and, a lot of things that we've taken for granted for a lot of years, seem to be being called into question and and those sorts of things. And so, I think maybe the first question is in these kinds of turbulent times where we're in we're in a world that just seems like that ethics and values and and and things that we've taken for granted or tossed, you know, like free basket turnover, You know, why is it why is it important in times like this for the church to be anchored, to to do things like caring for vulnerable children and and and and those things that that engage our world that way with the gospel?
• 6:38
  David E. Prince: Yeah. That's a great question. And, you know, one of the things I would say to that is, it's through those real and tangible things that you stay grounded. That's right. You know, the the watch word in our, my family, and my church staff, and everything lately has been let your reasonableness be known to all men.
• 6:55
  Yeah. And how do you do that? How do you not get swept away in all these currents of conspiracies, and craziness, and everything kind of turning upside down? You know, we tend to think about that only in terms of thoughts, but I think biblically the the Bible calls us to stay grounded, because our thoughts, biblical thoughts, become what we do. Yeah.
• 7:21
  You know, when you think about the, like I I like to talk to people about the importance of things like, you know, orphan care and caring for the vulnerable and the needy. Not just in terms of particular Bible verses, though they're there. Sure. And though we should, cite those verses, but those verses fit into a a storyline of scripture.
• 7:41
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 7:42
  David E. Prince: Like like, the beginning of the Bible, we have God creating a world, and then sin comes in the world. Right. And so the very, beginning there, we have neediness. Right. So we have a needy and vulnerable people because of their own sin, but but God meets that need with the gospel.
• 7:59
  So Genesis 3 15, we have the promise of the gospel. Then we have the bible chasing the story down through ultimately that that's fill fulfilled in Christ. But but what is God doing in the midst of that? God is coming. He's visiting.
• 8:12
  It says over and over again, his people, he's delivering them. Right. He's he he and he's calling for them to, live in such a way that they, reflect him. You know, we're created in God's image. The the image is marred because of the fall into sin.
• 8:27
  But what we are supposed to do as the people of God is to reflect the character of God in the world. But but even even thinking beyond that, there are a couple of very specific ways that we reflect not only the character of God, but the mission of God. Mhmm. In ways that the Bible says this reflects my character and my mission, in ways we can't miss. There's ways that we should we we should do it in all kinds of ways, but but there are some flashing light ways.
• 8:57
  Right. Right. Paul says, you know, marriage is, about Christ and the gospel. Mhmm. That's what this is.
• 9:07
  It's not that, marriage marriage is a picture of that. It's not the other way around. Right? Right. And so it's easy to say to people, if you invest your life in a godly marriage, then you are reflecting the gospel in the world.
• 9:23
  Mhmm. And that is something fundamental to do. So you shouldn't bypass that for anything else. So so whatever religious deeds that you think you should be doing Mhmm. May be good.
• 9:33
  Don't forsake your family to do it. Don't forsake your wife. Mhmm. Okay? That's one of those clear things.
• 9:38
  There's another clear thing, and that is, that the only way we become a part of God's family is to be adopted into his families. Right? Right? That's clear. And so the only way that we come into God's family is that God meets the need of the needy.
• 9:55
  God comes to the vulnerable, that God visits those who, unless he visits them, will have no hope of being rescued.
• 10:03
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 10:04
  David E. Prince: This is the storyline of the Bible. Right. And so one of those ways, beyond marriage, that the Bible is has this flashing light to say, okay. This is how you can reflect not only my character, but my character and my mission in the world. Mhmm.
• 10:19
  And that is through, things like orphan care, and adoption, and meeting the needs of the vulnerable and the needy. This is what God has said. This is what he's doing. And this is not a verse here and there. This is the storyline of the Bible.
• 10:33
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's
• 10:33
  David E. Prince: right. Everybody who's a Christian was needy and vulnerable, had no hope apart from the fact that God visited them with grace. Mhmm. He delivered them. He cared for them.
• 10:46
  And so God says this is one of the ways that you reflect me in the world, and you reflect my mission in the world. Because what is what is the gospel mission? The gospel mission is going to a lost world that is vulnerable and needy, who has no hope apart from this message, and proclaiming to them the message that they can be adopted into the family of God. You know, ironically, one of the one of the first theologians that really got me thinking about adoption in a way that reflects what the scripture says was John Calvin. Yeah.
• 11:20
  Everybody thinks about John Calvin, and they think about things, oh, you know, war not they don't think warm, familial theologian. And yet that's what he was. Right. BB Warfield says he's the theologian of the fatherhood of God. Mhmm.
• 11:33
  Brian Gerrish says in a book on Calvin that that for that Calvin would describe the gospel in this way. It is the good news of adoption. Yeah. Calvin says that. Good.
• 11:44
  Hey. Packer says it's the the the the highest statement of the gospel. Right. So so we know that this is a clear way in which we can reflect him in the world. And so, doing so keeps us about the business of doing the concrete realities that reflect him, which keeps us from getting swept in to all of the nonsense that we see around us.
• 12:10
  Right. Which usually is not concrete. Yep. Usually it is, a part of the sort of cyber world that we live in. Mhmm.
• 12:19
  That we don't really live in it, but we experience it, and we often treat that as more real than other things. Yeah. But you showed me somebody who is actively, concretely committed to reflecting the gospel in the ways that concretely committed to reflecting the gospel in the ways the Bible gives us flashing lights to do. Yeah. And I'll show you somebody who's gonna stay more grounded and reasonable in the midst of cultural chaos in and outside of the church.
• 12:42
  Dr. Rick Morton: Man, it's really good. You know, you you mentioned in in some of those flashing lights that you were talking about, you mentioned, you know, the the flashing light of of marriage. Yeah. Right? And and and so it's no wonder that there's an attack on marriage in our culture.
• 12:59
  And and, you know, and and that we see the attack on on marriage, on on gender, on on that order that God's created. Well, why do we see that attack? Because because it is it is such a powerful picture of Christ in his church. It is there there is such a a great theological reality that's that's a part of that, and I think, you know, we're more and more challenged all the time that that the the difficulties for for many people and and the barriers for entry into foster care and into adoption reflect around a culture that is that's that's trying to put marriage to the side or trying to redefine marriage, and it's making it harder and harder for Christians to actually be able to to step into that world.
• 13:40
  David E. Prince: Right.
• 13:41
  Dr. Rick Morton: Yet what what that really says is it's more and more important for for us to press in and and to show God's created order. It's more and more important for us to to live in in terms of what we know to be true Yes. And and to press into those things. And so so the time right now, I think, you know, as we're challenged, there's a there's a whole lot of what we're hearing in our in in Christian culture that sounds a whole lot like we need to, like, we need to huddle up and build the walls high.
• 14:12
  David E. Prince: Right.
• 14:12
  Dr. Rick Morton: And and that we need to we need to hide from culture and and that and or that we need to try to reverse culture and and reverse it back to where you know, what's been before instead of boldly living the gospel into the culture that we find ourselves in today. I'm convinced that that caring for orphan and vulnerable children is one of those ways that the church is still vitally important in in leaning in because, especially in America, we don't have answers for the for the crisis for orphan and vulnerable children without the church. Right. And so and and so it it's more important for us to lean in in those ways, not less important for us to lean in those ways because because it's a it's a way that our that not only our world needs, not only but we're called to, and it's a huge flashing light. Yeah.
• 15:05
  And and and you guys have you guys are doing that at Ashland Avenue. You're continuing to press in, and and you're continuing to to live the gospel in powerful ways in a in a culture that's that's more and more challenging. Talk about just what you know, some of the things that are that are happening around your church right now with regard to care for orphan and vulnerable children and the ways ways that you're seeing that happen.
• 15:29
  David E. Prince: Yeah. Let let me first of all say, that's why, I'm so thankful for Lifeline, and the ministry that, you're involved in. We can't retreat from this.
• 15:39
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 15:39
  David E. Prince: I just made a a case that, this is a nonnegotiable. Right? This is the storyline of the Bible That's right. And one of the ways we reflect it. It's not a verse here and there we can argue about.
• 15:50
  Right. And, Satan, of course, he hates children. Sure. The gospel promises that a seed will be born of woman who will crush the head of the serpent. You're gonna hate children.
• 15:59
  You're also gonna hate the folks who make children. You're gonna hate families. So the assault, that we see on children and families is, one that the Bible tells us is is inevitable. Mhmm. And one that, of course, we can't retrieve from that.
• 16:16
  Sure. That's what that's the very thing that we're called to. You know, I keep telling our church, hey, hey, let's just keep Christianity weird, and let's do it unapologetically. Because there there are 2 approaches, and that one is that you mentioned, let's just retreat and go off, and we'll talk about these things that have nothing to do with the culture that we're in. So it's not weird there because you you're just all the people who all agree on these things.
• 16:40
  Or there's the approach of let's compromise what we're saying so it doesn't sound so weird to the culture. I'm saying, hey, let's just be unapologetically weird. Right. Somebody says to me, you know, you know, you really believe homosexuality is a sin? Yeah.
• 16:57
  I said, yeah, but it's a lot weirder than that. Yeah. Let me tell you what I believe about a Lord who's gonna split the sky one day and return. Right? Let's just keep Christianity That's true.
• 17:06
  Weird, and let's be unapologetic about it. Yeah. And so that's one of the things, I see fleshed out in the life of the church that I get to pastor. Mhmm. People who are committed to living out the gospel in these concrete ways.
• 17:23
  And so, you know, we we have had a, an incredible number of people have adopted. Yep. So, you know, you walk around Ashland Avenue on Sunday, and you're gonna notice that, there are all kinds of families that not everybody has the same shade of skin color.
• 17:38
  Dr. Rick Morton: Everybody doesn't match.
• 17:38
  David E. Prince: That's right. Right.
• 17:39
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's okay. That's good.
• 17:40
  David E. Prince: You know, so I had, I had a guy say one time, you know, I walk around here and I I look at that family and they're not everybody looks the same. And I've been talking to people, not everybody sounds the same. Yeah. He said, you know, this is like the United Nations here.
• 17:58
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 17:58
  David E. Prince: And, I said, well, not the United Nations. I said, but but, you get what he means. Yeah. And, to to be a part of that is really, really transformative. Yeah.
• 18:11
  So Yeah. So, you you know, I I've said for years, you know, you you might hold racist thoughts and go to Ashland Avenue if we don't know about it, but it's really hard. Because if you help You're gonna
• 18:24
  Dr. Rick Morton: be challenged at every corner.
• 18:25
  David E. Prince: You're gonna be holding a lot of different babies who look a lot of different. You're gonna be meeting families that are gonna be kind to you who look totally different. And so there's a transformative element to, seeing people doing this, seeing people foster. Yeah. Fostering is hard.
• 18:40
  Dr. Rick Morton: Yes. It is.
• 18:42
  David E. Prince: And I mean, people are taking this on, knowing it's hard. So, you know, some people don't realize how hard it's gonna be. We we gotta try to help them with that. And some people go through the hard, then they go through the hard again and again, and and that may has an impact on the people around them. Why do they do that?
• 19:00
  Well, we do that because this is who we are, and this is what God has done for us. God didn't save us because we were easy. Right. He didn't say, you know, let me pick those really likable, easy people out there who'll be really fit for my work. That's right.
• 19:16
  He didn't do that, and we don't do that. You know, I know families that, that that reach out and adopt the kid with the most difficult situation Yeah. Because they want to be, minister to them in the midst of that. Now I want I don't wanna paint the the picture that it's always pretty and always rosy Sure. And these things always go smoothly.
• 19:36
  They don't. Right. But, you know, that sort of messiness is the messiness we're called to. That's right. And, ultimately, that messiness will only be resolved when Christ consummates his kingdom, and we're we're serving him outside of the presence of sin.
• 19:52
  Dr. Rick Morton: And I think part of part of the the understanding as well is is that that the the place where we ought to be able to live that mess messiness the most Yes. Is right in the middle of God's people. It's in the church. Yes. And and so I think, you know, you you said that.
• 20:07
  You you triggered a thought when when you were talking about the about being weird. Right? Like, because we're that that's fundamentally what we're called to. Yeah. And and I think, you you know, you go back and you look at Israel, and you look at the call to be a peculiar that God, you know, that God made Israel.
• 20:21
  What what was he calling to do? He's calling to be weird. He's telling them don't be like all the other nations around you.
• 20:26
  David E. Prince: Right.
• 20:27
  Dr. Rick Morton: Be exceptional. Be weird. Be be something different. And one of the one of the primary ways that God called upon Israel to be weird is in the care for widows and orphans. Do something that's completely uncharacteristic of every other nation around you because it's characteristic of me.
• 20:43
  And and I think in that spirit, that's that's the heritage that we're to live from. It's it's different. Israel was was pointing to the cross. They were pointing to what God was gonna do. We're we're pointing to the second coming, and we're pointing to the promise that we've, you know, that that we have that that Jesus is gonna is gonna finish all of this.
• 21:04
  David E. Prince: Yeah.
• 21:04
  Dr. Rick Morton: And and and that and that all these things we're fighting against are are are gonna be banished for good, but but the but the reality is until that day comes, in the church, we don't have an option. Right. And and I I think sometimes we don't sometimes we don't hear that either, and and we get the message that it's that it's optional for us to go into the culture and to live these things. It's optional for us to fight or or not to fight, and and it's not. Our weirdness is something we're called upon to do, and I I think that it's and I just wanna say thanks because I because I think that one of the things that I know about about Ashland Avenue and about and about you as a people is that you're you're committed to doing that, and you're committed to doing it in in very real and tangible ways in the lives of orphan and vulnerable children.
• 22:00
  And so the reason Congregational. Yes. Everybody. Everybody. And and the and and so part of the reason at Lifeline that we love partnering with you is because is because that's in the DNA of the congregation.
• 22:11
  You just like like you say, you're not gonna be comfortable. Like you're not you're not gonna be at home. I shouldn't say comfortable because we're never all that comfortable. Right. But but you're not gonna be at home.
• 22:20
  You're not gonna you're not gonna find your your place and find your peace in a in a place where where you're gonna be really dissonant if if you're not invested in that and not part of that. And and and so I think so, David, in the midst of a world where where people are living into that hard on on a regular basis, where you've got foster families that are in your congregation that are setting their hearts up to be broken, and they're saying, hey, we're moving into temporary care to to care for a child like they're never gonna leave knowing that they're knowing that they're gonna leave. Yeah. But we're gonna we're gonna risk that. And and being the kind of people that are gonna that are gonna come around them, that are gonna love them, that are gonna bind them up in in the middle of their grief, and and and all those sorts of things.
• 23:13
  As a pastor, what do you say to them to to to help them be of good courage?
• 23:24
  David E. Prince: Yeah. One of the things that we try to do is do a good job on the front end of telling people the challenges. Right? Yep. You don't want people to go into something thinking something happened.
• 23:35
  You you can only do that so much. Right? Right. You you can, you can sit in soldiers can sit in a room and talk about how hard war's gonna be, but when you get into war, Right. It's a little different.
• 23:46
  And and so, but but we talk about a culture of, that is a culture where we embrace the motto, make it hurt. Mhmm. Anytime that you're vulnerable and you give yourself away Mhmm. You love, you're gonna get hurt. I the old CS Lewis quote where he says, you know, well, you can seal yourself off from the world and protect yourself from all vulnerabilities, but that's a pain of a different kind That's right.
• 24:17
  And a worse kind. Mhmm. You know, my 2 of my girls are playing college, tennis, and, you know, I I wrote them a note when they left, and I said, you know, give it everything that you have. When you walk away from tennis after college, when you walk, make it hurt.
• 24:34
  Dr. Rick Morton: Yeah.
• 24:35
  David E. Prince: If you've if you've been all in Yeah. Then it's gonna be hard to walk away. Yeah. Then you'll know you did it right.
• 24:40
  Dr. Rick Morton: Yeah.
• 24:41
  David E. Prince: And you'll have something worth taking with you. And so the same thing with these families. But not just make it hurt, but we will be there with you, in the hurt. And we're not going to abandon you. But you will be a better person for embracing what reflects the character and mission of God That's good.
• 25:02
  And feeling the pain of, difficulty and even loss when they're not there anymore? Because you you what you said is exactly right. That's that's the way you should approach it. I'm gonna love you like you're gonna be here forever Yeah. But you're probably not.
• 25:18
  Yep. And that's that's really challenging. But but when you're a person who is willing to make it hurt, then you you you're actually creating a character that can withstand the pain.
• 25:32
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's good.
• 25:32
  David E. Prince: When you're unwilling for it to hurt, then you're having a deformed character that cannot meet challenges and difficulties of pain. Yeah. Does that make sense?
• 25:43
  Dr. Rick Morton: It absolutely makes sense.
• 25:45
  David E. Prince: Yeah. One of the things I've been struck by, lately is, you know, you guys plaster James 127 everywhere, and rightly so. You know, pure and undefiled religion, that reflects the father Yeah. Is to visit, orphans and widows. When I think about that that verse, think about what comes just before it.
• 26:09
  Mhmm. He he he he says that, you've gotta control your tongue.
• 26:14
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 26:14
  David E. Prince: And if you don't, your religion is useless. It's worthless. Right. So self control. Right.
• 26:20
  But a self control talk takes him next into not only the self control to stop doing something But it's to start doing something. That's right. So somebody who can't control their tongue probably doesn't have the self discipline to do hard things. Mhmm. So the person that controls their tongue, self control not to do something, is now told to do something, visit widows and orphans.
• 26:47
  And we have domesticated in our language the word visit.
• 26:50
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 26:51
  David E. Prince: We may, you know, take them a pie and chat with them. Preach. Nothing wrong with that. But the word is used uniformly in the Bible, specifically in reference to God, and God is who we're reflecting here. It is religion that pleases the father, to to show up to help.
• 27:08
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's
• 27:09
  David E. Prince: right. To show up to rescue when it comes to God. God doesn't visit, the people when they're in bondage just to see how they're doing.
• 27:16
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 27:16
  David E. Prince: He knows how they're doing. He's about to deliver them. And so to visit is to help. It it's to give yourself to it. It's to rescue.
• 27:26
  It's to to do those things. And then it strikes me that the very next thing that it says is also, that you would be unspotted. Mhmm. That you'd have an unspotted life in the world. Mhmm.
• 27:39
  Well, how do those things go together? Mhmm. I think they go together perfectly is what we were saying at the very beginning. Mhmm. And that is that if you're a person who controls your tongue to the glory of God, and then you concretely do what so clearly reflects the gospel, and that is ministry to orphans and and widows, then, and only then, are you a person who can have a life that is marked by being unspotted in the world.
• 28:10
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 28:11
  David E. Prince: And if you aren't a person who's willing to, number 1, stop doing something Right. That's an unbridled tongue, and then do something, you won't do things, then you're gonna have a deformed character that's gonna show up in a lot of ways. That's right. But it's not gonna be an unspotted life. Right.
• 28:30
  Like like, these things are tied together.
• 28:32
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 28:33
  David E. Prince: There there's nobody sitting out there saying, I'll say whatever I wanna say, and I don't care about orphans and widows. But then in other ways, they're so godly.
• 28:40
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 28:41
  David E. Prince: That's right. That's
• 28:42
  Dr. Rick Morton: right. That's right.
• 28:43
  David E. Prince: Like, I I try to tell folks at church all the time, you know, some people wanna pit giving to local causes against global causes. Yep. I say, hey, folks. Stingy people are stingy. Generous people are generous.
• 28:56
  The person who's giving more to the global causes is gonna be the person giving more to the local causes. The person who's trying to decide what we should shrink the giving to is gonna shrink the giving to both. And this is the way this works. The the there's no there's nobody saying no to the things that so clearly reflect the character and mission of God. Like, I don't care about my marriage, but I really love God, and I've got none spot in life.
• 29:21
  That doesn't happen. Right. I don't care about widows and orphans. I don't care about that, but I've really got it. It doesn't work like that.
• 29:27
  Yep. These are character deforming realities Mhmm. That affect every aspect of your life. But the other side is true, like we were talking about a while ago. These are character shaping realities that give you a better sense of the heart of the gospel.
• 29:43
  So when you make it hurt in the right way, you're actually able to deal with the difficulties that you wouldn't be able to deal with if you never experienced that. So good.
• 29:58
  Dr. Rick Morton: Man, David, that was a like, I'm over here. I was about to shout several times. I just wanna know. Like, I was, like, I I was we were we were we were about to have church
• 30:08
  David E. Prince: in here.
• 30:09
  Dr. Rick Morton: And I and I think just but but thank you for for just just a very honest and a very careful, quick exposition of of what James was what James was trying to tell us.
• 30:21
  David E. Prince: It's so powerful.
• 30:22
  Dr. Rick Morton: And and it and it is. And and because because at the end of the day, it it it gives it gives it gives direction and purpose to our action. And I think what we know is is also that that our that it's not limited by our action.
• 30:41
  Herbie Newell: Mhmm.
• 30:42
  Dr. Rick Morton: That when when we're faithful to do what it is that God's called us to do, we can also count on the fact that God's gonna be faithful to do what it is that that he will do. And that's not a, you know, that's not a that that's not a name and claim it prosperity kind of notion, but it's but it's the fact that that god is god's purposes are going to be accomplished.
• 31:03
  David E. Prince: That's right. It's not enabling and claiming. In fact, we can say what I tell our people is you can fail gloriously. That's right. Failure in the sense of the way the world defines it.
• 31:12
  You you look like you inherited a mess. Right. And you look like you didn't do outside looking at a lot to do good. Right. But but if you're doing what you're doing and you're reaching in and caring and you're loving, God is doing more than what is visible.
• 31:26
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 31:26
  David E. Prince: So you can fail gloriously.
• 31:28
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 31:28
  David E. Prince: And that is so much better than the person who's afraid to fail.
• 31:31
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's absolutely right. And and the fact is that that you can you can rest in the fact that God is going to accomplish his purpose, and that then that he is that he is able to do everything that he's appointed to do. The blessing is that even in the middle of the heart, even in the middle of the hurt, even in the middle of the difficult, that he allows us the privilege Yeah. To participate.
• 31:54
  David E. Prince: Yeah. Well, Ed, you know, think about Paul. He had such a sense of this. I love the passage in Paul. They they they've beaten him.
• 32:02
  They've stoned him. They they think he's dead. And so they just walk away. So they think the man is dead. And I love what it says.
• 32:11
  It says, he got up, went to the next town and preached the gospel. That's right. Right?
• 32:16
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 32:16
  David E. Prince: It's not a it's not a, woe is me. It's not a, you know, it it's just okay.
• 32:23
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 32:23
  David E. Prince: Like, what happened here is just a part of what's going on here. And and it's the same way when we step into lives, and difficult lives in terms of foster fostering, and and orphan care, and adoption, and and all these sorts of things, and all these other messy ways in which we step into people's lives. But this is what we're called to.
• 32:43
  Dr. Rick Morton: That's right.
• 32:44
  David E. Prince: What what I wanna say over and over again is it's not a couple verses. This is the story of the Bible. You either live in line with it or you live at odds with it. But there there's no in between. You can't be neutral about it.
• 32:59
  Man. Right? Neutrality is disobedience. And if you reject the way the storyline of the Bible teaches us about the character and, mission of God, there's consequences for that way beyond those issues. Right.
• 33:13
  Yeah.
• 33:14
  Dr. Rick Morton: David, thank you so much. Thanks for the for an eternal perspective about about what it is that we do. It's it's hard sometimes,
• 33:22
  David E. Prince: I
• 33:22
  Dr. Rick Morton: think, for us to for us to think about, you know, beyond the end of our nose and and and about the, about the realities of eternity when when we're when we're in the middle of the twist, the middle of the mess. But but but thanks be to god that we, that we have his word, that we have, something to help us to to to keep our our gaze set in the right perspective. And and thank you for being a pastor that, that faithfully preaches the word and and points your people, to that perspective. And and so we love you. We love your church, and, and we're thankful for our friendship with you.
• 34:02
  David E. Prince: Well, I'm a incredible fan of, what Lifeline does. I I just thank God for it. I thank God not only for what you do, but for the way you do it. I believe that the humility with which the organization functions is a reflection of the task that you've got. And so anything I can do to help or come alongside, I'm thankful for the way that the ways that you guys serve churches and families.
• 34:30
  It is an incredible, ministry that you have. And, any way that I can help with Lifeline, I'm always wanna be there to do that because Lifeline helps my church and my family. And, I'm honored to talk with you today about things that I care about to the very core of my being. Man.
• 34:48
  Dr. Rick Morton: Well, thanks again for joining us on the Defender Podcast, and we, hope to hear you hope to see you back here, again very soon as we, as we continue to talk about the ways that God has called us, to care for for the vulnerable in the name of Jesus.
• 35:08
  Herbie Newell: Thanks for listening to the Defender Podcast. If you enjoy making this podcast a part of your weekly routine, we'd love for you to take a moment to subscribe, rate, and review the Defender podcast to make it easier for more people to find. For more information on how you and your church can partner with Lifeline, visit us at lifelinechild.org. If you want to connect with me, please visit herbynewell.com. Follow us at lifeline on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter by searching for Lifeline Child.
• 35:35
  You can email us directly at info at lifeline child dot org. Beloved, will you allow god to use the gospel to you to impact the life of a child? Please contact us because we are here to defend the fatherless. We'll see you again next week for the Defender Pike.