Latest / CrossPolitic Show / China Update:Christian Pastor Released From Prison
Transcript
- Hey, all welcome to Cross-Politica one on one with the water boys get to be with you. We're going to be talking about the church in China. The underground church is trying to pass apparently President Trump was involved in helping release one of the pastors from prison on July 4th. Update, hopefully on Pastor Wang Yi and what's going on there in that situation. It's good to stay in touch with what's going on with what's happening in China. Pastor, excuse me, missionary bin is going to be coming on to talk about it all and give us an update. What's going on? As you guys know, our fight left these conference is in October, October 1st, 3rd, the topic is Holy Wars. We have our Bearing Psalms kicking everything off. But we're also doing our pre-business makers conference on Thursday, 1 to 5. You can sign up for that. We have a pastors or church leadership lunch and happen on Friday, a business luncheon on Saturday. Make sure you guys sign up. It's filling up. Make sure you sign up. We're pretty much full of booths, but we still have some on-stage plugs, some other sponsorship opportunities. The pastors lunch, I believe, is still a sponsorship opportunity. So go ahead and reach out to me. Waterboy at crosspaltyc.com for anything related to our conference. It should be a great time. I'd love to see you guys in Tennessee out there. So secondly, many of you know who kind of follow me on social media and email and things that I'm doing. I started BusinessMakers Network, our Christian Business Leaders Network last April. This is kind of our glenning into our second year. We are just barely over a year old. We've got over 100 people on the network. It's a Christian Business Leaders Network. The reason why I started it was in 2020 when I had 10 minutes of fame there. I had a bunch of business leaders, CEOs, business leaders call me nationwide asking me, man, you should start a Christian Business Leaders Network minus folding. It's not helping me fight tyranny and so forth. So that was the seed that planted that. You can go to businessmakers.network to sign up. But since then, man, it's been such a blessing. And there's so much more that we can do. And as you kind of think about what's going on in our economy right now, America used to be a Christian economy. Now we're some sort of secularist economy. We need to reclaim the center of the economy. And I think business makers is really in a good position to help with that. And then related to that. Muslims have their own economy here in America. I don't know if you guys, I shared this on social media just two or three weeks ago where Muslims were on video talking about this app that they've created to build their own economy in America. Mormons. I live in Idaho. Mormons have their own economy. The Jews have their own economy and so forth. Like we really need, I think, to develop a Christian economy again, not as a retreatist economy, not as a parallel retreat. But it's a foundation, no economy. It's a foundational economy in the way that we serve all other economies. If we would have, I think, been more together during COVID as business leaders, we could have done a lot to stop what's going on. So the goal of the network is to bring courage is Christian business leaders together for the good of our own businesses, for the good of the church and for the good of America. Would love to see you guys join businessmakers.network. Glad to set up a call and talk further about that. And you can just do email me waterboyatcrosspolitik.com. And our national conference, we got a bunch going on. We got our next, we do quarterly calls, CEO calls, our next national conferences in May. There's just a lot going on. I'd love to have you guys participate in that. It's been very inspiring and encouraging to me. So with that said, I think I've got missionary bin coming on our show to talk about what's going on in China. If you guys know missionary bin, he is on our network. You can actually go into the app, go download our file. If he's to happen, find missionary bin show in the app and he does a great job producing content, specifically to remind us to pray for, you know, what's going on in China? His main focus has been China, but he's been kind of all over the world. And so please, Ben, it's missionary bin. It's great to have you on the show. Thank you, sir. It's good to be back again. I think this is the, well, you first interviewed me for your waterboy show like three years ago now. And talk about my testimony about how I got deported from China myself. I had a similar experience to Pastor Ezra Jean who got sent to America this past week. And then I was also sent out of China, right? They didn't want to keep me there. They sent me out. And so I can relate at least a little bit to the feeling of being kicked out. Now, just like him, I also probably can't ever go back again. So that's another issue with this. So you're safe in one sense, but then you're also removed from the place where you poured your heart out for so many years as well. And so there's a bit of sweetness to that as well. Malat talked about Pastor Jean. He was just released from prison actually on July 4th, which is kind of cool for Americans and freedom and what that represents for us. But he had become a Christian after what happened in tightman square and then started going to a state sponsored church. That's what I read about him. Yeah. He became a Christian. A lot of people became Christians actually as a part of that. I've talked to Doug Wilson on my own podcast and Doug remembers reading stories about that kind of revival happening during and after Tiananmen Square. And he has memories of reading in World magazine in different places about those things and I've met people over the years who are who date their conversion back to that season where there was such a people there in China. And so Pastor Jean, you said, Jean, it's pronounced Jean, almost like you're wearing blue jeans, Jean. And but yeah, he must be one of those people as well. I don't know his story super well. So I had to kind of breed up on him a little bit. I've heard of him obviously in the last year more than ever before. But I didn't know him much before that. But yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah, so he became a Christian and then he becomes a pastor. And then I think in 2007 he started design, design church, which is a, was a underground church. Now, how what's the thought process? You become a Christian in a state-sponsored church. And then you become a pastor and you're like, I'm not going to start a state-sponsored church. I'm going to start an underground church. Well, most likely he started out in a state-sponsored church because that's all he knew. And then pretty quickly made connections with other churches and networks and house churches and was probably removed from that state-sponsored church pretty early on. I doubt that was in 2007. Most likely he did that early on. And then he was able to back, you know, back in 2007, China was a completely different place. In the sense there was a lot more freedom to do church planning and different things even in big cities like Beijing and kind of out in the open somewhat. Up until even just 10 or 15 years ago, a lot of church plans were function more open than you would imagine if we were for China. And that all started going downhill when the current dictator Xi Jinping came into power. And so it's gone downhill from there so much and much more restrictions and things. Yeah. And then so when did, if you know the details around the circumstances of his arrest, when did it happen? And of course, why did it happen? Or why they say it happened? Yeah. I don't know all the details. Not as much as I know the Wang Yi story as well. But going back a little bit, his church started in 2007. And it really grew quickly from what I understand there in Beijing. It was just the right moment, the right time, the right place and the right leader, I guess. And then in 2008, there was something that brought them almost immediately into conflict with the authorities in China. And that was, there was a massive earthquake in Western China back in 2008 in Sichuan province, which was not far from where Wang Yi is from. So that part of the country, and we were in China during that time, we were living one province to the north. We were in Gansu province, which is north of Sichuan province. So we were there during this whole time. And during that time, many churches, including Pastor Jean, Zion Church from Beijing, and their network of churches sent Chinese workers to go out and to help with recovery and rebuilding. But a lot of it was evangelistic in nature. And so they were arrested then, many of them, for doing that type of work in that part of the country. They were literally helping, actually helping, but they were also doing evangelistic work. And the authorities kicked them out of many places and said, no, no, we got to take care of it. We'll take care of it. We don't need the Christians coming in here and doing photo ops and looking like the good guys. Not that the Christians were trying to do that for that purpose, but that's what it seemed like, because they were doing a lot of good work during that time. I heard about that back then, but I didn't know exactly what church is it was, but evidently, Zion Church was a big part of that. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so that's how they kind of got on the map. But did it? That's how they got on the map. And then as a church continued to grow, yeah, as they continued to grow throughout the years, it became the kind of thing similar to Pastor Wang Yi where it was just so big, so influential that the government probably felt like if they didn't do something to them that it was going to look like they didn't care to their hardline side of their party. And so they felt like they had to move and do something because of how influential it had become. So when in Pastor Jean get arrested? It was October of last year. So I don't remember the exact date, but it was October of last year that he was arrested. Along with others, it wasn't this time. It was many. Their whole network was attacked simultaneously in many places, dozens and dozens, maybe hundreds were arrested. Similarly to Pastor Wang Yi, many were arrested along with Wang Yi. He's the only one. I think maybe one of two or three that are still in prison from his church, early reign. And in this case, it's a little bit different. Pastor Ezra Jean is now released, but he has eight of his people still under arrest. So yeah, I read that. And so why did President Trump, it sounds like he was involved, sounds like when he met with President Jean May, he specifically brought up what I heard, Pastor Jean. You know, it doesn't make a lot of sense why China would respond to this particular one and not to others, because in the past, even with Wang Yi, that's been brought up before to the President and others, or to the Chinese dictator and others. And so it's hard to say why this particular time. By the way, I don't know if you saw the latest article. I sent you a link before the show started, but Pastor Jean wrote his own op-ed in the Wall Street Journal just in the last couple days. And he said, yeah, he says in his op-ed, not only pray for China, keep praying for those who are still in prison, and it's behind the paywall, by the way, but I got Grock to give me kind of a summary of the article real quick before I became on the show. But he also says, beyond praying for those who are with him and everything like that, he says, you know, yes, the political process helps probably, but he still considers it to be mostly a miracle, because he was released, no questions asked. They didn't force him to sign anything, he didn't have to make a pseudo confession of doing some sort of wrongdoing. It was just, he was actually taken, the day he was taken, he says, he thought he was going to trial. Like, okay, this is it, they're taking me to trial. I might be locked up forever now. And then instead of a year in prison without a trial. Yeah, exactly. And so instead of being taken to trial to worst punishment, he was actually taken to the airport and sent home, basically sent to America to be with his family. So just, it really is a miracle. You can say the political process was part of it. God used the means potentially of Trump and whoever else was talking, but it really doesn't make sense that China would respond to this one particular request when there's so many others out there that have not been released in the same way. Yeah. Man, I think there's aspects of this where it's just like, amazing, but I also, if I was Pastor Jean, I would also have this other side of me where it's like, I'm the pastor, I'm free. Eight more of my people are still in there. How do you handle it? And now I'm in America. I guess, I guess, kind of what are you thinking as a pastor on that level? You know what, his op-ed is titled, I'll just tell you. Pastor Ezra Jean, his op-ed is titled, I'm free now pray for China. That's what he wrote. And specifically pray for those who are still in prison. He's echoing there, Hebrews 13, three. Remember those who are in prison as if you were with them, as if you were bound with them. He's echoing that there. Because he knows, he feels, I wouldn't say he feels guilt. We don't feel guilt as Christians, but he does feel like obviously responsible now to share the word and to spread the news and to encourage people to pray for others that are still there just like he was. And he shares some of what he went through. He actually shares in the article, there's a little section here where he talks about how difficult it was, sleeping on the floor. It was really, really hot. And it just wasn't like nice, a nice air condition prison cell, like, I don't know where in the world you would have that. It's a difficult situation these guys are in without their families with no trial on the horizon, not knowing how long it's gonna be. It could be a month, it could be a year, it could be 10 years. There's just no way to know in China. And so he's encouraging people as a result of his release, he's encouraging people to pray for those who are still there. Again, as the Bible teaches, as if we were with them, right? Is putting ourselves in their shoes. Yeah. So word on the street is after he got arrested last October that his church kind of went into kind of more house church mode kind of split up. And when house church mode and the word is that there's now something like 10,000 people a part of his Zion church movement. Well, there was, I think that was the number before. It had grown to be thousands and thousands before. And now, but potentially it's more now because they have split into smaller groups and those smaller groups are gonna probably invite new people and be sharing the gospel in their neighborhoods and wherever it might be. And so yeah, it wouldn't shock me at all if there is a being growth as a result of this and as a result of the splitting and moving out into new neighborhoods and new areas as they have to get into smaller and smaller, small groups to be able to function at all. So that's how you got to do this before on the show. But you know, why not just is it bad to have join the state sanctioned church stuff? Is it, is it, he became a Christian in it? Yeah, it's a catch 22. It would be like somebody in a city in America who is a really strong believer, but has no good church nearby. And the only thing you've got is a liberal church or a church that just is unbiblical in some ways, but good and other, unbiblical in other ways. So it might be a temporary stop gap, you know, to have some fellowship and to have some opportunity to hear the word taught, but it's not gonna be somewhere where somebody like him could function long term. He wouldn't be ordained there. He would be forced to go through a Chinese seminary to be ordained, which would also be propaganda. A lot of mixture with propaganda with from the government and pro-socialist sentiments and whatnot. And so it's a stop gap and there are some true believers that are there, just like we would say the same thing about the Catholic church or other churches. There's true believers there, but it's not a healthy environment as a whole for somebody who wants to grow. And especially somebody who feels called the ministry. You know, so one of the questions, you know, I've been kicking around regarding, really started with Pastor Wang Yi, but, you know, now Pastor Jean here, how do we think about, you know, America's relationship with China, you know, I mean, economically, you know, it sounds like President Trump is working on trying to have a better relationship with President Xi. Xi Jinping, Xi is in girl like Xi. S-H-H-E, just say it like you say Xi. Pastor Xi, but President Xi. President Xi, yeah. Okay. And he kind of, yeah, never mind. You should have heard, I had a teacher Doug Wilson to say that when I was in his office interviewing the last time too, so I tried to teach him to say, and then I think I heard him on a different podcast say it correctly, so I think he got, I think he got it. So, good. Good. Yeah, so how do we think about like doing business with China, doing, I mean, you know, I mean, they're arresting Christians or people and putting them in jail, being very in just with that, you know, how do we think about kind of, you know, economic relations, different new relations with China? I would say if it was me and it has been me, I've done business in China in the past, I started a restaurant there for my visa platform, you know, 15 years ago, whatever it was, 18 years ago now, 2007. And so, but what I would do if it was me and I had money to invest in China, I might still do something in China, but it would be very much in the idea of like a wartime environment. In my mindset, I'm going to war. I'm going to use my money, my resources to do business, to try to make legitimately make money, but I'm going to take care to protect all my assets, I'm going to take care to protect all my intellectual property as much as I can. And the goal there is going to be to, in some sense, bring down the regime to promote the church, to help the pastors there and to fight against the communism. It might be possible, it might not be possible, it might be something to get you kicked out real quick, but the idea would not be just to go ahead and use China just to make your big money back home and not be concerned about what's going on. So I think there is a way for businesses to do that. To go in knowing there's going to be difficulty, knowing there's going to be potential loss if they get caught doing something underhanded, but to go after it and do their best to serve the church and to serve the people with a good product, whatever product it might be. There's no, I don't think there's any harm in trying to provide good products for the Chinese people and make money, but doing it in a way that's definitely not selling your birthright and doing it just to make money without any concern for the people. Yeah, I guess to push that question a little further, as someone who has little power in the larger scheme of things with China, there's a lot of people who listen to shows, like okay, we want to pray for them. Obviously, that's the most important thing we'd be doing. Is there any other way that we can help kind of subversely or straight up the middle, overthrow or help the church grow in China? Well, I've told people for years, a lot of people have been to China. I'm sitting in the office of a brother here in Houston. By the way, we talked about this earlier before we came on live. I'm in Houston. I'm deep in the heart of Texas, but I'm in the office of somebody you would consider a trader. Look behind me there. What do you see on the thing behind me there? Is that talent or something? That's OU, brother. Oklahoma. Oh, yes, I see it now. I see the OU and I see the OU. Yep, nope. I won't tell you his name so you don't get him in trouble, but no. Houston people can be confused though, because it's so hot and humid there. Something like that. Not caring what I was going to say about that, but no, so. I see the question basically, like okay, we need to be praying for China, but is there other ways, subversely or straight up the middle that people, the common people like me, that I have no political sway or anything. And how can we be helping our country through China? That's what I was going to say. The guy who's office I'm sitting in, he's been to China just for business years ago. And so a lot of people go there for business, go there for vacation. They want to see the Great Wall. They want to do some crazy trip to see some amazing sites. Anybody who goes to China, anybody who's a Christian who goes to China, you are going to find opportunities to share the gospel with unsafe people, with communist people, with, and you're going to meet Christian people. If you're open at all, if you're active at all, at least in saying who you are, where you're from, and talking to people on the street, you're going to meet Christian. So one way to go up the middle is just to go to China sometime. You can go nowadays with, really easily get the visa, not too hard to get a visa for China. And you can go and you can actually be, like directly speaking to people, and you can share the gospel with people. You're not going to get kicked out for that. You're not going to get in trouble, deported from just talking to people on the street or in the restaurant or in a coffee shop. You might get deported if you try to preach on the street, or if you try to give away bibles, you know, in mass on the street, then that'll get you kicked out, maybe. But like I did, me eventually, but you can do anything there and talk to people, and there's not really any risk at all involved. And you're talking to people like Pastor Ezra Jean, you know, he's famous. Others, pastors are there, suffering the same things who aren't very famous. And you're going to run into people like them, if you just out about in the streets and cities of China. So that would be the most up the middle way you could do it, is just to go and visit and share the gospel as best you can in that place. Let me ask you kind of the similar question. Like if you're this little unfair, because we just don't know all the complications and everything, but if you're president Trump, you know, how do you, you know, do you build a relationship with president, she, you know, do you, what do you do? Yeah, I would say the same thing is what I said earlier about business. Yeah, you try to talk to them all you can learn from. I talked to police 20 something times over the years, I got talked to by police. I wrote a little book called Unbeaten about my deportation from China. I've got another little book I want to write that's going to have all of the times I had to deal with the police in China. It's 20 something different times that I had conversations or interrogations with the police. And my goal there was was not just to not to be mean or yell at them. I was trying to befriend them in some cases, try to talk to them as friends. And I got to ride in the car with them and talk to them on mini road trips at certain times. In places kind of weird to talk about, you know, here to explain. But try to befriend them. And at the same time learn from them and try to pick their brains a little bit and try to get an inside look on to how the Chinese brain works. And then at the same time, so I'm being friendly, but I'm also holding my cards close at hand and I'm looking for ways to subvert the propaganda they've learned and to subvert the communist inside of them as well. So I think Trump could easily do that with somebody like she. You know, it seems to me we're not a war with China. Even though there's a lot of bad things going on. Child slave labor, a bunch of stuff going on. But the president has a real opportunity to influence at some level. President Xi, you know, I was looking at Gavin Newsom invited him to California and Trump didn't invite him. You know, it's like sitting down, breaking bread, you know, those kind of things, being hospitable. It seems like there's some moves there that could happen. You know, and also I'm not against, you know, and also being ready to go to war. I mean, you know, it's like there's a lot of bad things happening in China. Well, I think, I think honestly she is probably, I don't want to say a lost cause, but somebody like him to get to where he's at, he's got to be, man, he's got to have one of the hardest hearts you've ever imagined just to know what he knows and to do what he's done to get where he's at. You wouldn't believe what he's had to do to get there. In China, you know, they're going after corruption and China currently, you know, they use corruption as a way to get rid of their enemies, right? To get rid of their people. But in order for him to get where he's at, he's been the most corrupt of all or else he wouldn't be at the top. Literally, that's the way it is. He would not be where he's at. If he hadn't been the most corrupt at every level, he's been up to this point and the most wicked and evil up to that point. And so to really reach him, he's not going to have ears to hear unless Miraculousy God gave him ears to hear, right? But Trump could speak to him and could still talk to him in such a way that others are going to hear other people that are around over their assistance or their secretaries or their helpers or their underlings, whatever it might be. Trump could potentially influence a lot of other people who are going to hear his speech with Xi Jinping. But I wouldn't have a lot of hope that he's going to actually reach and get Xi to kind of open his soul, you know, and open his heart to him. What do you think like, you know, you think about the end of the year in China. And then he's kind of, um, start thinking about the church in America. Like, what could the church in America learn from the underground church in China, you know, and pastors willing to go to prison for their faith and their convictions about not reporting to the government and being licensed by the government and all that. I mean, what do you think that we should be learning? You know, there's a lot of things. Obviously, you know, everyone who hears about the persecution and the difficulties, the immediate thing that we all tend to learn is that we're ungrateful for the freedoms we have. Typically, we don't thank God enough for having the open doors and blessings we have. At the same time, I would say we should probably should look at the Chinese church back in the 40s and 50s before communism took over and how they had become a little bit complacent. And, you know, they never thought that their country would turn into what it became and who knows what's going to happen in our own nation in the next generation or two. And so we also don't want to be complacent and say, well, that'll never, ever happen to us. We just need to learn to be grateful for our freedoms. We also need to be thinking and planning for the day where we might be the ones that are persecuted as well. And we are being in some cases and during some seasons, I'm talking to somebody who's been in prison right there in Moscow, Idaho. And so the, so yeah, I think there's all kinds of things we can learn. But honestly, one of the things I emphasize when I talk about China is we're not different. Like, we have the same struggles. If you read about the Chinese church, they still struggle with doubt, with fear, with lack of boldness, with wanting to stay safe. All the same struggles we have in the data lab, they have the same things. They just, they're forced to come to like the tip and the point of decision more often because of the difficult circumstances that are forced to make those hard decisions more often than we are. And that helps them, I think, to grow stronger over a lifetime than we tend to grow. Do you know, do you have any update on Pastor Wang Yi, what's going on with him? Man, I'm wondering, you know, it's getting closer. As I tell his story off and on still to this day, you know, it's been seven and a half years now because it's been, it's been the same length of time that I was, I was kicked out of China. I was kicked out in May of 2018. He was arrested in December of 2018. And so another year and a half in his sentence is supposedly over. But I'm just, I'm really curious to know what they do when that comes. In my case, I was told five years I couldn't go back to China. It's been eight and they still won't let me back in. Is he going to be such a big name and a big fish that they're not going to actually release him? They'll find some other way to extend his sentence. Or will he be released into the Chinese public or will he be sent overseas like Ezra Jean? So he's not in their, in their midst anymore and their problems anymore. I don't know what's going to happen, but I will be, I'll be most shocked if he's just released onto the street right there in his home city again. I would be really shocked if that happens. I think most likely his prison sentence will be somehow continued or he'll be centipede like Pastor Jean, one of those two options is most likely. Have you heard from his wife or church or, I mean, because it sounds like no one's heard to update from him since, I don't know, October, 2024 or something like that? No, no, there was another crack down just a few months ago. I podcasted about it, I think once or twice about what happened recently in their church. They had one of their, not the main church, but one of their church plans had 50 swap team come into the church during worship, 50. And they held everybody for an entire day, the whole day, even the people that were like grandmothers and children were held in the sanctuary till like 7 p.m., 20 or 30 were arrested. Everyone was eventually released within a day or two, excuse me, until, but one or two or a handful were not released and I haven't seen an update. Some of those people might still be in prison as well from this, this event that happened just a few weeks ago. And so yeah, no, there's still being attacked, as they try to reconstitute themselves and meet and gather and grow in that region, they're still facing attacks from the same government that took down Wang Yi eight years ago. Yeah, and I guess my question is more asking like, has anybody directly heard from Pastor Wang Yi and less or? No, I'm sorry about that. No, nothing I've heard. There's been no news directly from him at all. I mean, there's been his lawyer one point said that he was thin or something, he had lost weight, which is, you know, expectable, expected in prison, but no real updates, no written statements, nothing like that. I was surprised that Ezra Jean released a statement after him. I thought maybe one of the things they would have told him is, we're letting you go, but just keep quiet or else we're gonna give your church back and China more problems. Maybe they did say that and he just ignored him or maybe they didn't say anything at all. And now he feels like he's safe and he can say and talk about what happened and he can tell people to pray. But I'm kind of surprised to see a statement from him. So quickly, I'm happy to see it, but I'm surprised to see it. Interesting. Any other thoughts before we go? No, man, I mean, there's so much going on in China and the longer time goes by, the more removed I feel because I haven't physically been there in so long. I go back to the border a couple of times a year and I hang out in Hong Kong or Macau, which is right on the border. As a matter of fact, I might be in Macau, right when your conference this year is starting, I usually try to come to the conferences, but I've got planned to be in that area right around that same time. That's Chinese National Day is October 1st. And I think the conference starts on the 1st or 2nd, right? And so last year on that date, I was right there at the border handing out tracks and stuff, the Chinese people going back into China. I was as close as I could get without actually being there. So no, I don't know. I can't get back in. If people want to read my little book and learn more about what it's like to be in those interrogation rooms with the police, you can get my little book Unbeaten. It's, I think I've got a website set up just for the book Unbeaten.vip. Takes you straight to the link to the book. It's like $4 on Amazon. I'm not making any money on it, obviously. But it's just a little look into that world. And then one other thing I'll mention quickly, I'm working with a ministry now called Mission Catalyst and Mission Catalyst. We train indigenous pastors and missionaries and many countries around the world. That's why I'm traveling so much this year. And we're doing a conference in Malaysia in later, I won't say even what month it is, just for safety. Later this year, we're doing a conference in Malaysia for 50 or 60 Chinese house church leaders and pastors are coming to Malaysia to be trained. And I'm going to be one of the trainers there and one of the ones leading that. We're trying to raise funds for that. So if people wanted to give towards that, mci3.org is the website where you could give to that mission and to that particular work in conference mci3.org. But that's a big thing. I'm really excited. I'm going to, I can't go to China, but I can be surrounded by 50 or 60 Chinese leaders here later this year and really pouring to them. And they can teach me, I'm sure I'll have stories to tell I'm talking to them. And I'll learn from them what's going on more face to face from talking to them. mci3.org. That's awesome, man. Missionary Ben, his podcast on the network is China Compass. China Compass is the weekend show. And then the midweek show is called the Prison Pulpit series, which is like a sub podcast there on the one main feed. And so I talk about prayer during the week and I talk about China and tell stories on the weekend mostly. Tomorrow's podcast, I don't know when this goes live, but tomorrow Saturday, I've got a new one dropping with a buddy of mine who's related to Hudson Taylor, distant relative, but related to him. And so we talk for an hour to the day at his house in North Carolina. And that's going live tomorrow. And so, and anyway, he's a cool dude. And has a lot of 22 of his ancestors are buried in Asia on the mission field, 22. And they were contemporaries of Hudson Taylor, many of them. That's amazing. Well, thank you, Missionary Ben. Appreciate you, man. Thanks, sir. Make sure you guys check out China Compass on the Fire Lab Feast Network. Pray for China. Donate and help Missionary Ben and what they're doing in Malaysia, mci3.org. Thank you for guys joining Cross-Politik 101 with the Water Boy. I'll see you in summertime. I think we might miss a week, but I'll see you soon.