Latest / MyMaine Birth / 161. The Free Birth Society Scam: Untangling Free Birth from Free Birth Society with former Inner Circle Member Serendipiti Day

Transcript

161. The Free Birth Society Scam: Untangling Free Birth from Free Birth Society with former Inner Circle Member Serendipiti Day · MyMaine Birth

• 0:00
  Serendipity: I really just I really hope that women can separate free birth from free birth society because Emily and Yolanda are not able to separate themselves from free birth.
• 0:16
  Serendipity: I think that they have brought it onto an identity and they are acting as if if you are against them, then you are against women.
• 0:26
  Serendipity: If you are against them, then you're against free birth.
• 0:29
  Serendipity: If you're against them, then you're against everything that Free Birth Society says that they stand for.
• 0:36
  Serendipity: And from an outside, like now that I'm on the outside, women who have left have had, you know, they they're they're happier in their lives.
• 0:48
  Serendipity: I do believe that when you enter into the membership, when you're listening to multiple episodes a day, whether or not you're actually paying Emily money, I think that you have entered into a very high control group.
• 1:03
  Serendipity: It's a lot different than, you know, in-person ones because it is online.
• 1:09
  Serendipity: And I think that there's a a lot of women out there that it's it's really hard, it's a hard pill to swallow to say, like, you know, like I I found this group through my little tiny device, you know, and now I'm letting it control my thoughts, emotions, relationships, information, behaviors.
• 1:30
  Serendipity: And it it it's it was such a gradual process for me to pick apart my life and to figure out exactly how much of my life was actually getting influenced by this cult.
• 1:47
  Serendipity: And I still feel like I'm I'm still struggling to pick it up.
• 1:50
  Serendipity: I'm still struggling to figure out, you know, what is me, what is not me, what what bad habits did I pick up through during my three years in it?
• 2:00
  Serendipity: What bad habits did I bring into it?
• 2:02
  Serendipity: And then they were exalted.
• 2:04
  Serendipity: And now I feel like I'm such a cool person because I have like these mean or you know controlling habits that I don't mean to have.
• 2:12
  Serendipity: And I honestly, I like like I'm going through life just trying to not join another cult.
• 2:19
  Serendipity: You know, like it's it's it's a weird time, but you know, I I think that it's given me a little bit of a superpower because now I can I can spot them.
• 2:28
  Serendipity: I'm like, oh, they they want to control your thoughts, behaviors, emotions, and relationships.
• 2:34
  Serendipity: Like that's a red flag.
• 2:35
  Serendipity: Like, oh, the these ideals in this religion or in this church or in this community want to have a very tight grasp, a very short leash on your thoughts, information, behaviors, and relationships.
• 2:50
  Serendipity: Like, let me let me keep those things close to me until until I'm able to discern better.
• 2:57
  Serendipity: I really do think that Freebird Society is a dangerous organization.
• 3:02
  Serendipity: I think that lives are on the lines for women who are listening to the podcast, for women who are bought into that ideology.
• 3:11
  Serendipity: And I I want to see them stopped.
• 3:13
  Serendipity: I want to see all of the content taken down, I want to see the podcast taken down, and I really do believe that lives are on the line.
• 3:23
  Angela: I'm Angela, and I'm a certified birth photographer, experienced dual up, childbirth educator, and your host here on the My Made Birth Podcast.
• 3:32
  Angela: This is a space where we share the real life stories of families and their unique birth experiences in the beautiful state of Maine.
• 3:40
  Angela: From our state's biggest hospital, the birth center birth, and home births.
• 3:45
  Angela: Every birth story deserves to be heard and celebrated.
• 3:50
  Angela: Whether you're a State Dippy mom, a seasoned mother, or simply interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
• 3:58
  Angela: Welcome to episode 161 of My Main Birth.
• 4:03
  Angela: Today my guest is Serendipity Day, a former Free Birth Society Inner Circle member.
• 4:08
  Angela: She was part of a small group that helped shape and promote the movement.
• 4:12
  Angela: She saw the ideology being built in real time, witnessed the dynamics behind the scenes, and eventually walked away, and has been bravely sharing her truth about what she experienced.
• 4:23
  Angela: This is the final episode in the second series exploring the difference between the idea of free birth and the ideology that was and still is promoted by the company, the Free Birth Society.
• 4:36
  Angela: All of the resources we talk about in this episode, including the Guardian investigations, key podcast episodes, Reddit threads, and other important documentation, are all compiled in the show notes.
• 4:48
  Angela: I've put them together in one place so you can easily explore the timeline and draw your own conclusions.
• 4:54
  Angela: If this episode brought anything up for you, please be gentle with yourself.
• 4:58
  Angela: You're not alone.
• 5:00
  Angela: Thank you for listening to these episodes with an open heart.
• 5:03
  Angela: And if you'd like to connect with me, you can do so through my website, mymainbirth.com, or you can find me over on Instagram at mymainbirth.
• 5:12
  Angela: Our closing song is by Kate Sutherland.
• 5:14
  Angela: You can find Kate's community songs and deep nature connection work online at katesutherland.ca.
• 5:20
  Angela: Alright, serendipity, hello.
• 5:25
  Serendipity: Hello.
• 5:27
  Angela: So to start, would you share a little bit about who you are and some of the stories that you heard about birth growing up that might have shaped your earlier views on birth and how that eventually led to you becoming a dual up before joining the Free Birth Society?
• 5:42
  Serendipity: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:44
  Serendipity: Hi everyone, my name is Serendipity.
• 5:47
  Serendipity: Let's see.
• 5:48
  Serendipity: My mother is a comes from a family where she's one of seven.
• 5:54
  Serendipity: And so she comes from a very big family, and all of her brothers and sisters seem to have a lot of kids.
• 6:00
  Serendipity: So I have lots and lots of cousins.
• 6:02
  Serendipity: When I was growing up, I grew up in the 90s, and I feel like birth was as taboo as talking about, you know, women's periods, and you know, it's it's something that happens behind closed doors.
• 6:16
  Serendipity: It's not something that we talk about.
• 6:18
  Serendipity: And yeah, I just I grew up my whole entire life thinking that birth was something that happened behind the hospital closed doors.
• 6:30
  Serendipity: I was four when my little brother was born, and I remember going to like my daycare provider and like spending the night there at the woman's house.
• 6:41
  Serendipity: And then she brought me to go meet my brother the next day.
• 6:44
  Serendipity: And I I remember just being like amazed that yesterday I didn't have a brother, and today I did.
• 6:53
  Serendipity: And a little jealous for sure.
• 6:55
  Serendipity: I was like, wait, now I have to share my family.
• 6:59
  Serendipity: But I don't think I I really understood anything about pregnancy or birth until I got into high school and I had a few friends that became young mothers in high school.
• 7:11
  Serendipity: And I immediately just I my heart opened for them and I saw that, you know, they were not necessarily getting treated the the best because they were minors, and so their parents still wanted to make all of the decisions for them.
• 7:28
  Serendipity: The hospital, the doctors didn't, you know, treat them like fully adult human beings, and you know, made it very clear that they had made a mistake.
• 7:38
  Serendipity: And I I didn't see it like that.
• 7:41
  Serendipity: I was just like, you know, where where else do babies come from?
• 7:45
  Serendipity: Like, so what if you know this woman is 17, 18 years old?
• 7:51
  Serendipity: Like it's it's really, you know, like this is just part of life.
• 7:56
  Serendipity: And so I the first birth that I attended was in a hospital when I was 18.
• 8:06
  Serendipity: And I I saw how scared she was, and no one was holding her hand, nobody, you know, like nobody was looking her in the eyes.
• 8:17
  Serendipity: And so I I jumped in and I held her hand and I looked her in the eyes and I was like, you can do this.
• 8:22
  Serendipity: And later on, like a few weeks later, she just like was so grateful.
• 8:28
  Serendipity: She was like, I I just needed you.
• 8:30
  Serendipity: I needed you in that moment, and you knew exactly what to do.
• 8:34
  Serendipity: And I was like, really?
• 8:35
  Serendipity: And so that's kind of how my birth work started.
• 8:42
  Serendipity: Was I just had friends that were getting pregnant and I wanted to be part of their support system.
• 8:50
  Angela: Yes.
• 8:51
  Angela: So, what was your first impression of Emily Saldea and the Free Birth Society?
• 8:54
  Angela: And what made the Free Birth Society message resonate so strongly?
• 8:59
  Serendipity: So I was I started attending my friends' births, and one of the things that I noticed was that they the biggest way that I could support them was in the postpartum period, just coming home with them right after they got home from the hospital and, you know, making some freezer meals, making sure that they had clean sheets on their bed, making sure that you know the floor was picked up and counters were cleaned and stuff like that.
• 9:28
  Serendipity: And so I started doing like live-in doula ship, where I would come at the end of birth and stay for about three months.
• 9:37
  Serendipity: Uh, sometimes I was staying for a month of pregnancy and two months postpartum.
• 9:43
  Serendipity: Sometimes it was, you know, it was all three months postpartum, because it's hard to plan these things, yeah.
• 9:49
  Serendipity: But I I loved it.
• 9:51
  Serendipity: And it was very, you know, hands-on work and not necessarily, you know, I didn't know any birth language.
• 9:59
  Serendipity: I didn't, and I didn't really care to know any birth language or like, you know, what like what could be happening and you know, what the the physical things that were happening in in her body would be or anything like that.
• 10:10
  Serendipity: I was just interested in making this homey, you know, making it uh an experience that, because I knew that, you know, like they were gonna remember this for the rest of their lives.
• 10:23
  Serendipity: Like it's not like you, it's not like you can give birth every day, you know.
• 10:27
  Serendipity: And so I wanted to, you know, I really focused on it's so nice to have clean sheets every day or every other day when you're fresh postpartum.
• 10:38
  Serendipity: It's so nice to know that you don't have to, you know, make a meal or that you have options in the freezer and it's so easy to warm it up.
• 10:47
  Serendipity: It's so nice to know that you don't have to be the one that sweeps your floor.
• 10:51
  Serendipity: And so I was in a different country helping uh when a friend of a friend that kind of referred me, and one of my midwife friends got interviewed on season one of the Free Verse Society podcast.
• 11:07
  Serendipity: And so I listened to it.
• 11:09
  Serendipity: I was like, oh, cool, um, awesome.
• 11:13
  Serendipity: And um, you know, she was a traditional midwife, and so like she was getting um interviewed.
• 11:21
  Serendipity: I find I and I I just I loved it.
• 11:23
  Serendipity: And so then I listened to another episode and listened to another episode and another and another.
• 11:28
  Serendipity: And I got to the point where I was listening to an episode.
• 11:32
  Serendipity: The moment I woke up, I started playing a Freebird Society episode.
• 11:36
  Serendipity: And if I could get away, I'd watch, I'd listen to two, you know.
• 11:41
  Serendipity: And then and so I was like listening to like two to five episodes a day.
• 11:47
  Serendipity: And now retrospectively, I really think that it was it was very ideological of like, you know, it was the best of the best stories, it was the diamonds in the rocks, the the stories that you know were miraculous, that maybe it like there's no other way that it could have happened in a positive event like that, besides just like the grace of God.
• 12:16
  Serendipity: And so it really, but but it in instead of seeing those stories like that, I was like, oh, the answer must be that they were by themselves.
• 12:28
  Serendipity: The answer must be that they were they had a better faith in themselves or a better response, like self-responsibility, and that's why they were having these good outcomes, is because they weren't allowing the medical care to get involved, they weren't allowing an external authority to tell them that what they were doing was wrong or right, and so that's where the power come came from.
• 12:56
  Serendipity: And so I listened to the podcast every single day for almost a year.
• 13:04
  Serendipity: And then my birthday month came up, and I was like, okay, these podcasts keep on talking about the membership, the private membership.
• 13:13
  Serendipity: I was like, okay, I had I I had run out of clients because I had set up my schedule that I was kind of pretty fully booked for three months at a time.
• 13:22
  Serendipity: Um, and I was traveling to these places, uh, to these women's houses, and and I had kind of run dry, so to say, you know, I didn't have anyone lined up for a while.
• 13:34
  Serendipity: And so I was like, okay, I bet that if I join this private community, a free birth society, I would find women who need live in doulas, you know, especially because I don't I don't consider myself like a birthkeeper at all.
• 13:48
  Serendipity: I don't consider myself involved in any aspect of, you know, pregnancy or birth, besides just the fact that I can take care of the home.
• 13:59
  Serendipity: You know, I can be a support.
• 14:01
  Serendipity: I was doing a lot, uh like a lot of the families I was working for, I was being like a sibling jewula.
• 14:06
  Serendipity: And so I was helping out with older children and pets, especially.
• 14:11
  Serendipity: And so that's how I was advertising myself was like, I know nothing.
• 14:16
  Serendipity: Like I am not the person, I'm not like that kind of doula that like knows about birth or pregnancy.
• 14:22
  Serendipity: But I do know how to take care of children in, you know, I don't, I never called it like high stress environments, but you know, maybe from the child's perspective when your mom is yelling and you know, screaming in the other room in transitional times.
• 14:40
  Serendipity: Yeah, exactly.
• 14:42
  Serendipity: And so I I thought that it would be a perfect place for me to be able to serve women in the way that I was currently.
• 14:51
  Serendipity: Ironically, after I joined the network, I never attended another woman during their birthing time.
• 14:59
  Serendipity: And so, and I I think, and that's not true for everyone.
• 15:03
  Serendipity: I think that a lot of women, once they join, they do kind of come onto that path.
• 15:07
  Serendipity: But I think that there's more, there's more women that have my story than not that you know they they are working in birth and then they join Free Birth Society and all of a sudden they stop working in birth, they bring their business to the ground.
• 15:24
  Angela: So I can't imagine how that happens.
• 15:27
  Angela: Yeah.
• 15:29
  Serendipity: Exactly.
• 15:30
  Serendipity: But anyway, so I joined the private membership, and this was in April of 2020.
• 15:38
  Serendipity: So it was still, it didn't have the name of the lighthouse yet.
• 15:42
  Serendipity: It was still just the Free Birth Society private network or private membership on Mighty Networks.
• 15:47
  Serendipity: And the 15-minute interview that you have to get in, Emily was giving herself.
• 15:53
  Serendipity: And so that 15-minute interview turned into an hour.
• 15:57
  Serendipity: And we, I, you know, we talked about radical feminism, we talked about trans issues, we talked about uh surrogacy and IBF and you know, all of these things.
• 16:08
  Serendipity: And, you know, she it seemed like she was really excited to have me part of the group.
• 16:15
  Serendipity: And, you know, she she was just like, oh yeah, you know, you're you're gonna be a hit.
• 16:20
  Serendipity: Like, we don't, you know, like we have radical feminist ideals, but like we don't have anyone that can really speak to them as much as as you can.
• 16:30
  Serendipity: And so I come in and I just like start typing, like commenting on posts and doing really, really long responses in the comment sections, and I'm immediately praised for it.
• 16:43
  Serendipity: She starts tagging me in her Instagram stories immediately.
• 16:48
  Serendipity: I just and and it and and people are like, because she was tagging me, I had like three or four women message me being like, Hey, do you offer coaching?
• 16:57
  Serendipity: And I I had never offered coaching.
• 17:00
  Serendipity: You know, I was like, no.
• 17:02
  Serendipity: So I gave Emily a call and I was just like, How do I do this?
• 17:06
  Serendipity: you know?
• 17:07
  Serendipity: And in in retrospect, I can definitely now call that love bombing.
• 17:13
  Serendipity: I think that I came in and I for the first month, month and a half, I was love bombed, not just by Emily, but of all of the women that held leadership within the space.
• 17:25
  Serendipity: And I it I just I felt like she saw me in a way that nobody else had.
• 17:33
  Serendipity: I felt that she saw my potential and she knew how I could actualize it.
• 17:37
  Serendipity: You know, I think that I felt, I remember the first after the conversation with her, I took the the day off of work and I was like, my whole life is changing.
• 17:48
  Serendipity: I feel the shift.
• 17:50
  Serendipity: And I was like, I told my partner, I was like, my life is never going to be the same again.
• 17:56
  Serendipity: And I was right, you know, it completely took over my life.
• 18:03
  Serendipity: So by June, by three months in, I felt like it had become my identity almost.
• 18:09
  Serendipity: So I had started coaching, I had started curating my Instagram to be like a spiritual coach or a life coach or a women's wellness coach of some sort.
• 18:20
  Serendipity: And I was, I don't want to say like imitating Emily, but I was trying to, I was definitely trying to copy her business model.
• 18:32
  Serendipity: And she was very encouraging of it, you know.
• 18:34
  Serendipity: She was like, Yeah, this is how you do it.
• 18:37
  Serendipity: You get Calendly, you get this, you get MailChimp, you get, you know, and and like all of these things.
• 18:44
  Serendipity: And I really did enjoy it.
• 18:46
  Serendipity: Like I, you know, like I I think that anyone that's ever been through a love bombing phase will say, like, it's really great.
• 18:53
  Serendipity: Like, it's really, really great.
• 18:56
  Serendipity: I and uh and all of the women that I met through the membership, they were just powerful, amazing, skilled women that just it blew me away how how much in like they how much agency they had in their life, in their family, in in wanting to get the most out of everything that they did.
• 19:19
  Serendipity: And so pretty soon I became a leader in the Free Purse Society space.
• 19:23
  Serendipity: I started giving workshops, I was giving monthly workshops, I was getting paid to give these workshops, and I I started making money as a coach and pretty I my my clientele was pretty exclusively either women in the membership or women who were following Emily.
• 19:43
  Serendipity: And then I would get like an upkeep take whenever she would like tag me on Instagram.
• 19:50
  Angela: Yeah, so from your perspective then as someone who came in after the transition from like the Facebook group to a private membership, what was the membership community like when you entered it?
• 20:02
  Angela: And in hindsight, yeah, were there early signs of like the inner dynamics of that ideology that stood out to you?
• 20:11
  Serendipity: So you when I joined, I had no idea that they had started on Facebook.
• 20:15
  Serendipity: I it I joined right after they had they had big promotions for a Dominican Republic retreat.
• 20:24
  Serendipity: And they had like done that in the winter time, and now it was the spring.
• 20:29
  Serendipity: And so I had gone through the whole entire marketing for getting people to come and join, and then having it, and then like the after, you know, this is it was such a great event, you know.
• 20:41
  Serendipity: And I, you know, it it seemed like this was so yeah, it seemed like this was a group that could handle their business, that could handle the different complexities it takes to work with women and and work with all like a women exclusive environment.
• 21:03
  Serendipity: And from my perspective, I was like, oh, there's like no drama that happens, like this is a drama-free zone.
• 21:10
  Serendipity: And then there was a mass exodus of inner circle members in June.
• 21:16
  Serendipity: And instead of like seeing it as drama, I saw it as an opportunity.
• 21:22
  Angela: And this is of 2020, June 2020.
• 21:25
  Serendipity: Yep, exactly.
• 21:26
  Serendipity: Um, and so yeah, there was a mass exodus of inner circle members, and I was like, oh, Emily probably needs a friend.
• 21:34
  Serendipity: I could be a friend, you know, I I could do that.
• 21:37
  Serendipity: And it's not that I wanted to like ignore what the the inner circle members who were leaving were saying.
• 21:46
  Serendipity: I think that, you know, I I got onto a call with a few of them and was like, okay, break this down.
• 21:52
  Serendipity: Like, help me understand what this is.
• 21:55
  Serendipity: And that was the first time I had heard anyone call it a cult.
• 21:59
  Serendipity: And I, you know, the way that she said it, this former inner circle member was just she was like, this is a cult, and I need to get out.
• 22:09
  Serendipity: I don't care what you do, but I need to get out.
• 22:12
  Serendipity: And I did not take that seriously.
• 22:15
  Serendipity: I thought that she was like exaggerating, like almost joking about the situation.
• 22:20
  Serendipity: And so when I heard that, I was like, oh, that's a you problem.
• 22:24
  Serendipity: Like, you know, you you can call anything a cult if you try hard enough, you know.
• 22:30
  Serendipity: Like you, you just you make up your own reality.
• 22:33
  Serendipity: Your perception makes up your reality.
• 22:35
  Serendipity: And so if you wanted Emily to be a cult leader, then like you did that to yourself, you know, and and I think a lot of that came from what Emily was saying at the time of just like the the these are the sacrifices that we have to make when we're changing the world.
• 22:56
  Serendipity: You know, we need to make the world a better place for women.
• 22:59
  Serendipity: And sometimes like the bit the closer we get to that goal and the closer we get to actualizing women's liberation, it's gonna be harder to have interpersonal relationships because only mature women can have interpersonal relationships and bring about change.
• 23:17
  Serendipity: And so all of these women just aren't mature, you know, all of these women are flawed.
• 23:22
  Serendipity: And I totally blackbot into that.
• 23:24
  Serendipity: And it it made me be like, okay, I need to make sure I'm not flawed in the same way.
• 23:30
  Serendipity: I mean, I need to make sure that my flaws are going to, you know, I that I'll squish them right away, and they won't get in the way of bringing about this message of free birth that will empower women, that will, you know, that will be a positive force for families and for changing the dynamics of the world and for changing the world's culture.
• 23:57
  Serendipity: And I think that I felt like it gave me a sense of purpose.
• 24:02
  Serendipity: And so, like, that was bigger than me, that was bigger than any of these women that were leaving, you know, and so like of course we need to make sacrifices in order to bring, you know, because this purpose is so much bigger than us.
• 24:19
  Angela: Yeah.
• 24:20
  Angela: So what was after that, and you kind of settled in as her closer friend, what was the day-to-day culture like behind the scenes over the next couple of years?
• 24:29
  Angela: The dusty dynamic, the events, or just how Emily positioned herself, like and the brand.
• 24:35
  Angela: And how did that sense of sisterhood and like exclusivity play into people's commitment?
• 24:41
  Serendipity: I know that this is like the hot topic question that everybody I feel wants to know.
• 24:47
  Serendipity: And honestly, like I I left in 2023, and when I left, I it was a bad time.
• 24:55
  Serendipity: I I felt like I was getting torn apart in every single direction.
• 25:00
  Serendipity: I felt physically ill.
• 25:02
  Serendipity: I left Manituric Rising and had my last conversation with Emily, where she like I think that she she was trying to be mean to me, but also trying to keep me at the same time, you know.
• 25:15
  Serendipity: It wasn't like a big kick out conversation, but it was it was very putting me in my place.
• 25:22
  Serendipity: And the the night that I decided that I wasn't going to continue working for her anymore, I woke up and like puked all over myself and all over my bed.
• 25:34
  Serendipity: And I was just so physically ill.
• 25:37
  Serendipity: And I drove the I drove 16 hours back home from North Carolina, and I was just so, so ill.
• 25:46
  Serendipity: And I like I knew that I had to leave.
• 25:49
  Serendipity: And I like part of me leaving, I was just like, I need to forget everything.
• 25:54
  Serendipity: And I destroyed everything.
• 25:56
  Serendipity: I I destroyed all of my notes from Freeburst Society.
• 26:00
  Serendipity: I and I knew because of the women that had gone before me that I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to stay friends with anybody that was still in it.
• 26:09
  Serendipity: And I had isolated myself, and so I didn't have any other friends.
• 26:13
  Serendipity: And so I like I had this thing in my head where I'm like, I'm gonna be alone forever, I'm never gonna work again, I'm gonna have to like, you know, work minimum wage jobs to survive because I'm nothing without them.
• 26:26
  Serendipity: And so I through that process, I kind of like made myself forget a lot of like, you know, the the stuff that I was doing in there.
• 26:37
  Serendipity: And so I'm yeah.
• 26:39
  Serendipity: So I've been out now for like two years, going on three years.
• 26:43
  Serendipity: And when I look back to like my day-to-day life, it's so hard for me to remember and to recall things that were happening, like and and you know, my I was in it for three years.
• 26:58
  Serendipity: The first year I was in it, I was like in the bestie circle.
• 27:03
  Serendipity: And then there was like a six-month period where there was a lot of inner circle drama, and another woman decided that like I should get thrown under the bus.
• 27:15
  Serendipity: And so I had like this big confrontation with like, you know, Emily and her new best friend, and I thought I was gonna get kicked out of the group, and I was so scared, and so I didn't end up getting kicked out of the group, but I did get I was never back in the inner circle like I had been.
• 27:34
  Serendipity: And so I feel like then my last year in it, or my last year and a half in it, I was just like struggling to prove my loyalty, and I was doing everything that I could possibly do to prove my loyalty to her.
• 27:50
  Serendipity: And so if that meant working, you know, 60 hours without pay, doing research for her or research for other women that were in the inner circle to like, you know, take some easement off of them, then like that's what I was doing.
• 28:05
  Serendipity: You know, I think that I think that a lot of our day-to-day stuff was almost like getting caught up with like the bureaucracy of everything and like semantics of like, oh, you need to talk like this, and you didn't say this in the right way, and you know, like call calling each other in, you know, instead of calling out, let's let's call you in.
• 28:27
  Serendipity: Um and so a lot of what I do remember from that time is just being so scared that I was gonna say something in the wrong way.
• 28:38
  Serendipity: They'd know what I was trying to say, but I was not like I was so scared that I was gonna say it in the wrong way that I'd like get in trouble.
• 28:47
  Angela: Yeah, I feel like that was a really big thing, even like in MMI, where they're like, this is what a sovereign birth is, and this is what a free birth is, and don't you dare call like the wrong thing, like you know, there's like the terms are like such a big thing I can only imagine, like behind the scenes.
• 29:02
  Serendipity: Yeah.
• 29:03
  Serendipity: Yeah, and it's like, yeah, just they I feel like, and it affected every single relationship I had outside, you know, inside uh of the inner circle or even inside of the membership, like I feel like I was praised and rewarded for using certain language that was very controlling and manipulative.
• 29:26
  Serendipity: And then I'd try to use those same tactics, you know, like the what is it, the 15 commitments to leadership, you know, like but extreme, you know.
• 29:37
  Serendipity: And so I'd start I'd try using those similar tactics, like with my boyfriend, or you know, with just friends around here, and they'd just be like, what are you talking about?
• 29:50
  Serendipity: Like, no, you know, and then if I couldn't explain it to them, then I was like, Oh, well, you know, they're like a lower level consciousness, like they just they're not mature enough, they're not high caliber enough to be in my life, and so I, you know, I I'll say like I secluded myself, but I don't think that that's quite an accurate description of like how that happened.
• 30:15
  Serendipity: But yeah, I I very much I lost every single relationship in my life due to this and due to my experience with within the inner circle.
• 30:26
  Serendipity: Yeah.
• 30:28
  Angela: So did earlier events, I know you said you didn't really know anything about the Facebook group when you joined the membership, but once you were part of the inner circle, did the earlier events of the Facebook group fall out after the death of baby Journey Moon ever come up, like in team discussions or like membership conversations?
• 30:48
  Serendipity: Yeah, definitely came up, and though it was always talked about in a business sense, not in a relational sense.
• 30:57
  Serendipity: So the first time I ever heard Journey Moon's story was I think the second time I was with Emily in person, and it was just me and her one-on-one.
• 31:08
  Serendipity: And I asked her, I was like, what are some of the worst things that have ever happened to your business?
• 31:15
  Serendipity: And she brought it up as the second worst thing, not even the first, but she brought it up as the second worst thing that had ever happened to her business.
• 31:23
  Serendipity: And the way that she described it was that Three Birth Society started off on Facebook, and that even though it was a private Facebook group, there had become infiltrators from either the media or midwives, like midwives and media infiltrators.
• 31:42
  Serendipity: And then one day a mother posted that, you know, she had conium in her bathwater or like in, you know, like on a towel, and posted a picture of that into the free bird or into the Facebook group.
• 31:56
  Serendipity: And that later it came out that the baby had passed away.
• 32:01
  Serendipity: And then the media just was horrible to her.
• 32:05
  Serendipity: And the Emily like reached out to her after the media had, you know, been horrible to her and kind of asked her, like, hey, like, how can I help you?
• 32:14
  Serendipity: How can I support you during this time?
• 32:17
  Serendipity: And that's what made her come up with moving it to my V networks, moving it to a private membership, and doing the 15-minute vetting calls beforehand so that this wouldn't happen with anybody else.
• 32:30
  Serendipity: And that's when she also decided to come up with the NDA, saying that you're not allowed to take any photos from the membership or talk about the membership outside of the membership.
• 32:40
  Serendipity: And after you leave the membership, you can't say anything bad about what had your experience there.
• 32:47
  Angela: The first little fight club is yep.
• 32:51
  Serendipity: Yeah, so I I think I even asked her, I was like, oh, so you didn't know this woman at all, or like you didn't communicate with her until after the media stuff.
• 33:02
  Serendipity: And Emily was like, no, absolutely not.
• 33:05
  Serendipity: Like, I she was just some random woman in the group, and she like totally played it off, like she couldn't even remember her name or anything, you know.
• 33:14
  Serendipity: Like, it wasn't until the Guardian article came out with like the receipt text messages that I even knew that they had talked previously, like, you know, while Journey Moon's mom was in labor.
• 33:28
  Angela: Yeah, I feel like that was really big for me because before I even joined MMI, I was like doing the research on the Free Birth Society, and there was all of these different stories of what exactly happened with all of that, but none of it was really clear.
• 33:41
  Angela: So I really do appreciate the Guardian podcast and interviews for making that part clear because that really sheds a lot of light on things.
• 33:53
  Serendipity: Yeah, and it it's I think that it's really telling, like it really revealed a lot to me about, you know, who Emily is that she went through that experience.
• 34:03
  Serendipity: And through that experience, she was like, Okay, I need an NDA, I need to move this to a private network, you know.
• 34:10
  Serendipity: Like, let me figure out how I can protect myself and not let me figure out how I can protect other women.
• 34:18
  Angela: Yeah, the the re type of reflection that happened after that is like, whoa, kind of crazy.
• 34:24
  Serendipity: Exactly.
• 34:26
  Angela: So there's been reports of several other deaths linked to the FBS influenced births that were allegedly downplayed or covered up internally.
• 34:36
  Angela: What can you share about how incidents like this were discussed or managed, like behind the scenes, and how did that affect you?
• 34:44
  Angela: And if you don't want to answer that, it's okay.
• 34:46
  Serendipity: No, that's okay.
• 34:47
  Serendipity: I, you know, and I think it's important for me to answer as you know, a former inner circle member.
• 34:53
  Serendipity: I was completely unaware about the deaths while I was in it.
• 34:59
  Serendipity: We did not talk about them.
• 35:02
  Serendipity: I I remember from the three years that I was in it, I remember maybe one to three stillborns.
• 35:08
  Serendipity: One of them was another inner circle member who ended up divorcing her husband because her husband called the ambulance as she was having a seizure.
• 35:19
  Serendipity: And she was like, Oh, you should have just watched me die.
• 35:22
  Serendipity: And so, like, I and I didn't I I could not even tell that story like that while I was in it.
• 35:31
  Serendipity: Like it was, you know, like and so yeah, in short, I was so unaware of the deaths.
• 35:39
  Serendipity: And now I know it's because there there really isn't a space in, like, even though the the space has like grief circles, you know, like a monthly grief circle, it's basically just to I I think that they they started the grief, the what the inner circle member who had the stillbirth is the one that kind of started the grief circle.
• 36:04
  Serendipity: And I think that she did it so that she could continue gaslighting herself, that you know, it it was somehow her fault that she did this, and that medical pro like providers would not have been able to do anything differently.
• 36:19
  Serendipity: When there was a traditional midwife in her community that directly told her to go seek medical help.
• 36:27
  Serendipity: And she was like, you know what, I I choose death over this.
• 36:31
  Serendipity: And so I think that like the way that we saw it was that a sovereign death is less traumatic than a hospital saving your baby.
• 36:40
  Serendipity: And I think that we see that very clearly with different podcast episodes that they've put out, you know, uh talking about women's either early stillbirths or late-term stillbirths, is that a sovereign death, even if it's you that's dying, is less traumatic than having any interaction with the hospital system.
• 37:02
  Serendipity: And yeah, I think that that's what makes it a death cult.
• 37:06
  Serendipity: That's what makes it, you know, a high control group, is that they somehow convince women that it is better to die, and it is better to have your baby die, and it's better to have your husband watch you die than have any interference with the medical system.
• 37:24
  Serendipity: But I couldn't say that while I was in it.
• 37:26
  Serendipity: If somebody, if I was in it and somebody said that that's what was going on, I'd be like, you're stupid.
• 37:32
  Serendipity: You know, like you, you, you're immature, you don't understand what we're talking about.
• 37:38
  Serendipity: If only you were more educated, then you would understand.
• 37:42
  Serendipity: If only, you know, you were more aligned with your higher self, then you would understand.
• 37:47
  Serendipity: And yeah, it it took me a year and a half after leaving before I could, I kind of like came to that conclusion of being like, oh, like we're literally asking husbands to watch their wives and babies die instead of calling 911.
• 38:04
  Serendipity: And like that was a huge shock for me because I like when I was in it, like I would, I would, I'd be like, no, that's so stupid.
• 38:13
  Serendipity: But that's the reality of it, you know?
• 38:18
  Angela: Can you describe some of the programs and offerings that were developed while you were involved?
• 38:23
  Angela: Specifically the RBK school.
• 38:26
  Angela: What was the process like behind the scenes?
• 38:28
  Angela: How was it created, marketing, and what role did ideology play in the content?
• 38:34
  Serendipity: So when I first joined, the RBK was going to be an in-person three-day workshop held in Colorado Springs.
• 38:45
  Serendipity: And it was gonna be $6,000, and I was gonna go.
• 38:49
  Serendipity: I was like, this is perfect.
• 38:51
  Serendipity: This is like I'm gonna meet women, I'm gonna be able to like network, and and then for the first time, I can actually learn about birth because in pregnancy, because I still I still didn't know much.
• 39:03
  Serendipity: I know that pregnant women like getting their feet rubbed, you know.
• 39:06
  Serendipity: I know that soup and stew is better than a salad, but I was excited to learn more in depth and from women who weren't gonna tell me about you know pitocin or dilation or you know, stuff like that.
• 39:26
  Serendipity: And so I was really excited about it, and then the pandemic hit, and they turned it from a weekend three-day class to a six-week class, and they completely redid it.
• 39:41
  Serendipity: And one of the biggest things was that they made it more of a business cohort than a learn about pregnancy and birth.
• 39:52
  Serendipity: And so that that turned me off, honestly.
• 39:55
  Serendipity: I was like, you know, I I've been running my own business for a while now.
• 40:00
  Serendipity: Like I've been, I talked to Emily as a friend.
• 40:03
  Serendipity: I don't think I can commit to, you know, six weeks or 12 weeks or whatever it was, I forget.
• 40:11
  Serendipity: Um, but then I lived very close to one of the inner circle members that was helping edit it.
• 40:20
  Serendipity: Um and one thing that maybe you know because you were in MMI, but the same thing happened for MMI as RBK.
• 40:29
  Serendipity: They didn't have everything put together.
• 40:31
  Serendipity: They were creating it as the class went along.
• 40:35
  Serendipity: And so they didn't know what the last thing was gonna look like because it hadn't happened yet.
• 40:40
  Serendipity: And so what they would do is that they would have their like live Zoom calls and then they would send it over to one of the inner circle members to do the editing and just transcribe it and to make it into like the work, uh, the worksheets.
• 40:57
  Serendipity: And so all of the worksheets that people were getting that came like a day or two after the Zoom calls were literally getting made after, you know, after the content was filmed, which they didn't make it seem like that.
• 41:12
  Serendipity: They because when they advertised it, they were like, okay, these are the materials that are provided, you know, and all of this stuff.
• 41:18
  Serendipity: And so it it they made it seem like they had had it all together and then they were like giving it to you, but really they were making it up as they went along.
• 41:26
  Serendipity: And then there was another woman in my area that because of her involvement in RBK, she slowly became an inner circle member as well.
• 41:36
  Serendipity: But I would do a lot of like, I'd go over to her house and watch a lot of the live classes in the background where they wouldn't see me.
• 41:43
  Serendipity: And we all knew that if they knew that I was doing these things, they would be like, hey, you should give us money too, you know?
• 41:50
  Serendipity: And so it was kind of like our little secret, which made me feel so cool and so in.
• 41:56
  Serendipity: And so the only thing I didn't have was the one-on-one with Emily Yolanda, but I had access to a lot of the RBK content.
• 42:08
  Serendipity: And I yeah, I don't know.
• 42:10
  Serendipity: I think that it was set up a lot like the podcast is, where it's very miraculous stories that, you know, are the exception to the rule, and then they made it the rule.
• 42:24
  Serendipity: And then another thing that I noticed was anytime a woman like, you know, because uh they were targeting their their first cohort was really targeting women who were already attending births.
• 42:37
  Serendipity: Or like, so there was like a woman that was like leaving her license behind, and she's like, okay, how do I, you know, attend births without a license?
• 42:45
  Serendipity: And so she would ask very, very specific questions of like, okay, like what happens when I see preclampsia?
• 42:52
  Serendipity: What happens when this happens?
• 42:53
  Serendipity: What happens when this happens?
• 42:55
  Serendipity: And Emily and Yolanda would get a big smile on their face and be like, oh, that's such a good question.
• 43:01
  Serendipity: We're gonna cover it later.
• 43:03
  Serendipity: And then the 12th week came, and this woman was like, Okay, y'all, I've written down every single question I've had that you have not covered that you told me that you were gonna cover later.
• 43:16
  Serendipity: And they were like, Well, maybe you just didn't get the content.
• 43:19
  Serendipity: We did cover it, and because you didn't get it, that's not our fault.
• 43:24
  Serendipity: That that means you you might be a little stupid, you know, and they just like they they're they say these things like to her face in front of everyone, like utter humiliation.
• 43:36
  Serendipity: And so it became very clear that like if you have questions that you that they don't have the answers to, then they're bad questions.
• 43:47
  Angela: Yeah, yeah, I felt that very much in MMI.
• 43:50
  Angela: Mm-hmm.
• 43:51
  Serendipity: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 43:53
  Serendipity: I think that Emily is a great salesperson, and I think that she was teaching.
• 43:59
  Serendipity: I don't think that she was actually teaching anything of value about birth or pregnancy.
• 44:06
  Serendipity: Anything that she was actually that that was of value that wasn't like some contorted little exception to the rule.
• 44:14
  Serendipity: I think that that is all easily accessible through books and other resources that women can just buy.
• 44:24
  Serendipity: Yeah.
• 44:24
  Serendipity: Not for dollars.
• 44:27
  Angela: Right, definitely.
• 44:28
  Angela: Literally, like an MMI, the whole first section, there'd be like three or four videos that were 10 to 15 minutes each, maybe like 10 to 12 minutes each, like giving a lot of credit saying 15, like they were all really short.
• 44:40
  Angela: And one of the videos each week was her reading from a $12 book each week.
• 44:43
  Angela: Like, what is this?
• 44:45
  Angela: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:47
  Angela: So you appeared on a podcast in late February 2025 discussing red flags in women's communities.
• 44:55
  Angela: And this was right around the same time as the Reddit community started.
• 44:58
  Angela: What led to that conversation?
• 45:00
  Angela: How did it feel to start speaking more openly about your experiences finally?
• 45:05
  Serendipity: So, yeah, this I feel like there was so much happening at that time.
• 45:10
  Serendipity: A group of about 12 to 15 former inner circle members got together.
• 45:17
  Serendipity: And it was just kind of like, you know, when we had all left at separate times.
• 45:23
  Serendipity: And I feel like we had all left in a very similar manner, where we were, we we felt like, you know, it's like when when women leave abusive boyfriends and they leave and they just feel worthless and they feel like they can't do anything.
• 45:38
  Serendipity: And like it's almost like we knew better than to even like reach out to each other, too.
• 45:42
  Serendipity: And so this was like the first time I had seen a lot of them since I had left the group.
• 45:48
  Serendipity: And a lot of them were like the same.
• 45:50
  Serendipity: And then, you know, they were like, okay, like there just this year, there has been so many reported infant deaths.
• 46:00
  Serendipity: Is there anything that we can do?
• 46:02
  Serendipity: Like, is there anything that we like any action that we can take?
• 46:06
  Serendipity: And there was one woman that was kind of like leading these things, like the circle or like this conversation.
• 46:13
  Serendipity: And she was just like, you know, I have known Emily for such a long time, and it just hurts my heart so much to see her going through this.
• 46:23
  Serendipity: And I, you know, like I don't want this to become a witch hunt.
• 46:27
  Serendipity: I don't want this to become anything.
• 46:30
  Serendipity: And she told us how she tried to talk to Emily about this like six months prior.
• 46:36
  Serendipity: And Emily just like basically broke up with her, like as you know, like as a friend, and how that was like really, really painful for her to experience as well.
• 46:48
  Serendipity: And she had a lot going on in her own life, like we all do, right?
• 46:51
  Serendipity: We all we all have a lot going on all the time.
• 46:54
  Serendipity: And so that that talk kind of didn't it didn't, it it it left us all inspired, but it didn't really go too many places.
• 47:03
  Serendipity: But it is what prompted me to do that podcast of like, you know, the red flags.
• 47:08
  Serendipity: And then I swear it was like two days or three days later that the Reddit popped out, and so we all get back on the cloud and we're like, who did this?
• 47:18
  Serendipity: You know, like who did the Reddit?
• 47:20
  Serendipity: And it wasn't any of us, and so we were just like, wow, like this, this was really like momentous, you know.
• 47:26
  Serendipity: And so then we all shared our stories on the Reddit, and it went from like I feel like the first time I visited the Reddit page, it had like a thousand subscribers already or something like that, and there was already like so much to read through.
• 47:42
  Serendipity: And I I did, I mean, I won't lie, I was very excited about the momentum, and I was also very nervous because I did, I don't, I don't think that just having like a smart page is gonna do much, you know.
• 47:58
  Serendipity: I think that women, the the women I believe that are have the most risk are the women that aren't gonna take that page seriously.
• 48:08
  Serendipity: But I'm glad that it exists to this day.
• 48:10
  Serendipity: I am really glad that it exists.
• 48:12
  Serendipity: It it brought awareness to this very niche community.
• 48:17
  Serendipity: And so whoever, you know, did start that thank you.
• 48:20
  Serendipity: Um, I think that it was the catalyst for The Guardian.
• 48:26
  Serendipity: So The Guardian, they have been researching and investigating it before the Reddit.
• 48:32
  Serendipity: And then when The Reddit came, I think that that opened up a lot of sources for them.
• 48:38
  Angela: So you participated in The Guardian's year-long investigation and were featured in the podcast series The Birthkeepers.
• 48:45
  Angela: What was that experience like?
• 48:47
  Angela: And were there any surprises in what their reporting uncovered?
• 48:52
  Serendipity: Yes.
• 48:53
  Serendipity: So I'll I'll I was very surprised through the whole thing.
• 48:57
  Serendipity: Honestly, I I didn't know a lot of what was in that was my first time hearing the full story of Journey Moon.
• 49:07
  Serendipity: That was the first time I had heard about the midwives that were in the Facebook group that were like actively getting their comments deleted.
• 49:16
  Serendipity: And so, like, even when I was in the inner circle of like Free Birth Society, I was definitely involved in like controlling the narrative.
• 49:26
  Serendipity: And anytime that there that somebody talked about engaging with the medical system, I was one of those people that was like, oh, that's not really this place for this.
• 49:36
  Serendipity: Like that, maybe you can share that.
• 49:38
  Serendipity: Like, there's other groups that you can talk to that about that stuff with.
• 49:42
  Serendipity: Um, or if it was like really like a positive medical story, I'd screenshot it and send it to Emily for her to delete it.
• 49:50
  Serendipity: And so, like, I even though I participated in this type of control in the group, it was still so surprising to me to hear the extent of it in the podcast.
• 50:03
  Serendipity: I the the night that it came out, I like it was, you know, I was very nervous.
• 50:09
  Serendipity: I was very, very nervous.
• 50:11
  Serendipity: And so I like had a listening party with a few women, and you know, we paused it and talked about it, and so it took a long time to listen to.
• 50:22
  Serendipity: But I I really am grateful for the amount of care that Lucy and Seren put into it, the the amount of care that like I felt that they were giving everyone who participated in it.
• 50:34
  Serendipity: And I had had actually another bad experience with reporters.
• 50:40
  Serendipity: The free press called me and didn't tell me that they were recording or that they were part of the free press and like posed as a woman that was like pregnant that didn't know if she wanted to like do a free birth or not.
• 50:55
  Serendipity: And so I feel like they got me to say things that I wouldn't have said if I knew I had been talking to a reporter.
• 51:02
  Serendipity: And so Lucy and Sirens helped in that situation a lot, and I so that was really awesome.
• 51:09
  Serendipity: And yeah, so yeah, like they they were just so incredibly caring.
• 51:16
  Serendipity: And I don't I don't think that that is an experience that a lot of people have with journalists.
• 51:24
  Serendipity: Um, and so I'm glad that they did such a thorough job.
• 51:31
  Angela: So expanding on the censorship in the Freebird Society podcast and how being drawn into binge listening to their content can start to feel like being indoctrinated into something like a death cult where dogma overrides intuition.
• 51:47
  Angela: Can you share more about what that looked like from the inside?
• 51:50
  Angela: Maybe some examples of how dissenting voices or complications were handled, or how you saw the messaging shifting people's trust in their own instincts.
• 52:01
  Serendipity: Thank you for wording that so well, because I think that that's exactly what it is.
• 52:05
  Serendipity: When I was really like in the leadership position and like, you know, really bought into the organization, I remember people kind of asking me this, you know, like, oh, well, why why aren't there any of like these stories?
• 52:23
  Serendipity: Or I even remember having Emily, you know, talk to leadership about it and be like, well, you know, women specifically look for positive birth story podcasts.
• 52:39
  Serendipity: And that's why she doesn't do, you know, any like negatives or transfers or anything like that.
• 52:46
  Serendipity: And since I've been out, I kind of thought I'm like, yeah, that that's valid.
• 52:51
  Serendipity: And also like you she puts out a bunch of political episodes anyway, right?
• 52:58
  Serendipity: If she's gonna talk about the dangers of the hospital, the dangers of IVF, the dangers of, you know, commodifying women's bodies or you know, of hormone replacement therapies and stuff like that, then I think that there's absolutely a place for birth, you know, free free birth attempts that didn't end in a wrapped-up bow that is sold in the complete guide to free birth.
• 53:27
  Serendipity: Another thing that I really want your audience to know, and women who are maybe still listening to the podcast, or women who are like, Oh, I'm not going to pay her any money, but the podcast, you know, um, is that no one in my time in the leadership or in the inner circle, which was three years from 2020 to 2023, absolutely none of the leadership had truly wild pregnancies.
• 53:59
  Serendipity: Emily herself surrounds herself with women who were trained, probably and trained by the medical system and have allowed their licenses to lapse, or you know, give gave them back, or you know, abandoned their licenship.
• 54:16
  Serendipity: And so I think that that's something really important to know is that she's never had a truly wild pregnancy, and neither has most leadership.
• 54:27
  Serendipity: A lot of women who come onto her podcast, they have to re-record a few times.
• 54:33
  Serendipity: And by the third time that they're telling their story, they've kind of learned that they're not supposed to talk about the midwifery care that they did receive.
• 54:42
  Serendipity: Um, or if they had a family member who has any sort of medical training, they they kind of learned subtly to not mention it.
• 54:52
  Serendipity: But that was one of the very shocking things that I kind of had to come to grips with in leaving is oh, what you know, I was definitely part of this, the censor censorship within the community.
• 55:06
  Serendipity: When I woke up every morning, the first thing I would do is check Mighty Networks.
• 55:11
  Serendipity: And if there was anything that I saw was like against the community guidelines, which would be talking about positive medical experiences, talking about getting checked up by even a retired medwife, you know, I say in quotation marks, I would screenshot it and send it to her right away.
• 55:30
  Serendipity: And I wouldn't, I sometimes I would follow up and see if it got taken down, but sometimes the response was we would, you know, maybe the inner circle would I would like screenshot it and send it to a WhatsApp group with quite a few women on there, and we would just tear it apart in a WhatsApp group, and then one of us would go back and comment and really shame the woman for pay the posting, and really, really, really shame and and make a like a public display of humiliating any type of medical seeking, you know, that we called it dogma at the time, like, oh, it's medical dogma.
• 56:11
  Serendipity: And I really think it was the opposite.
• 56:12
  Serendipity: It's like, you know, the pop calling the kettle black.
• 56:15
  Serendipity: I think that it we when I was in it, it's so hard for me to like go back to where I was and like the thought processes I had while I was in it, and like my nervous system while I was in it, because I felt so righteous.
• 56:31
  Serendipity: And I felt like this was the only way to to kind of hush up these stories, to kind of like be like, oh, and you know, it was like we were taking them down or shaming the women for posting them.
• 56:45
  Serendipity: And then we would also say, Well, those stories are everywhere.
• 56:49
  Serendipity: You don't have to look far on the internet to find like a bad, you know, a bad transfer story or a bad experience that a woman has with a midwife.
• 56:59
  Serendipity: And so we don't want to like platform them here.
• 57:02
  Serendipity: But really, what we were doing was we were we were creating a vacuum of women.
• 57:09
  Serendipity: And I really also want to point out that when when I first started listening to the podcast, and I know I've heard this from so many women, is that we would listen, we'd start listening to it, you know, when I first discovered the podcast, I would wait, listen to it the first from the first second I woke up, I would push play on an episode.
• 57:30
  Serendipity: And I would, that was how I would spend the first hour of my morning.
• 57:33
  Serendipity: And then if I had a chance to listen to it during the day, I'd listen to it during the day.
• 57:38
  Serendipity: And then before I went to bed, I would like get into bed and put on my headphones and listen to another episode.
• 57:44
  Serendipity: And I think that it really, I don't want to sound extreme or anything, and I know that this word is hard to define, but I really think it brainwashed me.
• 57:54
  Serendipity: I really, really think, and I see it from other women who who devour the podcast like that, is it is absolutely a brainwashing tool.
• 58:04
  Serendipity: And I think that, you know, I really think that Emily and Yolanda get off on the power that it gives them to hear women tell them, oh, I've listened to your voice, you know, twice a day, every day for the last three years.
• 58:19
  Serendipity: Or, you know, I I think that they are not ignorant.
• 58:24
  Serendipity: They they know exactly the harm that they are putting out into the world, but it's making them money and they have some messed up way of justifying it.
• 58:37
  Serendipity: I think that they are very out of touch with reality.
• 58:40
  Serendipity: And I really hope that with the Guardian articles, with the Reddit, and with them, you know, losing a lot of clientele through all of this, that they get a reality check.
• 58:52
  Serendipity: I don't know what that would look like on, you know, on the social media side of things.
• 58:58
  Serendipity: But since leaving, like I I love teaching, I love coaching, and I have not gone back into that line of work because I don't know how, like, you know, I just right now I kind of see it all as a scam.
• 59:12
  Serendipity: I'm like, who, you know, who is it that, you know, and and that's something like I I know that there was harm done to me within Free Birth Society because I'm having such a struggle with discernment these days.
• 59:27
  Serendipity: You know, I've been out for almost three years and I'm still struggling with who to trust and how do I know that I can trust myself when I think I can trust somebody else.
• 59:36
  Serendipity: And I know that a lot of other women who were in similar leadership positions are struggling with that too.
• 59:44
  Angela: Yeah, definitely.
• 59:45
  Angela: It's a lot of a lot of untangling and decompressing from all of that for sure.
• 59:51
  Serendipity: Yeah, absolutely.
• 59:52
  Serendipity: So one of one of the things that I've been reflecting on is that when I first met her, right back in 2020, one of the things that she I heard her say repeatedly is oh, the only care I would give to my baby in distress is like first breaths, you know, like, oh, it's so gross to like suck out mucus from your baby, but it's instinctual.
• 1:00:19
  Serendipity: And so, like, you know, it's good to do that.
• 1:00:22
  Serendipity: And then there was a woman on her podcast that had a water birth and left her baby in the water for like six minutes or something, crazy, maybe four minutes, I don't know.
• 1:00:33
  Serendipity: A very, very, very long time, and then just repeated, like, oh, well, you know, the umbilical cord is still attached, and so it was fine.
• 1:00:42
  Serendipity: And that's when she stopped being like, Oh, we don't need to give, or like, you know, that's when she started being like, we don't need to give first breaths.
• 1:00:50
  Serendipity: We can let the baby choose when to breathe.
• 1:00:52
  Serendipity: And so, like, more often, like it's I I think that the thing that I would like to talk tell your audience about is like all of these extreme cases, like she just didn't, you know, she didn't wake up on day one being like, Oh, it's fine to let your baby drop 10 feet because the they're you know, the brain sutures aren't big, you know, and the baby babies are meant to fall.
• 1:01:16
  Serendipity: Like she heard a crazy story like that, tried to get them on their her podcast, whether or not they did do the podcast or not, then she like that that story was like, oh, well, if she can do it, then anyone can do it.
• 1:01:31
  Serendipity: If this baby survives that, then any baby can survive that.
• 1:01:36
  Angela: Would you be able to share any more about anything you know about like women who might have reached out after bad experiences?
• 1:01:44
  Angela: Or maybe these are some of the people that were commenting in the Mighty Networks, you know, group and still in support of free birth, though, like reaching out to Emily, maybe in having a bad experience that was directly related to consuming their content, their educational materials, like the complete guide to free birth, and then had a bad experience because there was not, you know, good information in there, and then wanting to reach out to Emily, you know, share their story on the podcast in hopes of educating other women of this thing that happened to them, and then you know, obviously not being allowed to do so.
• 1:02:16
  Angela: Is there any anything like around that that you want to comment on?
• 1:02:19
  Serendipity: I think that Emily probably gets requests like that once a month.
• 1:02:24
  Serendipity: I I think that it is very, very common.
• 1:02:26
  Serendipity: If there's anyone on this podcast that has had that story and reached out to either via Instagram, email, or Mighty Networks to her, I want you to know that you are not the only one that has done it.
• 1:02:39
  Serendipity: And it literally is such a common thing that happens.
• 1:02:42
  Serendipity: And it it was, you know, I I remember her complaining about it a few times in group text messages and stuff like that.
• 1:02:50
  Serendipity: But it was part of like, oh, this business is so boring, you know.
• 1:02:55
  Serendipity: I get I just hear the same stories over and over and over again.
• 1:02:59
  Serendipity: And she really fed it to us as a this is my platform, this is my business, I'm the leader.
• 1:03:09
  Serendipity: If I don't want to give that space of voice, I don't have to.
• 1:03:16
  Serendipity: And then she would come back with examples of certain episodes, I can think of three right now, that did involve late-term deaths or stillbirths.
• 1:03:28
  Serendipity: And so then she would use those as an example of, like, oh, well, I'm not going to share a story about a transfer, but I will share a story about a sovereign death.
• 1:03:37
  Serendipity: And I want to be very clear, it was those stories that really solidified this idea that the husband, like a sovereign birth, if there is a true emergency, we must believe that the hospital wouldn't be able to do anything.
• 1:03:57
  Serendipity: And we must believe that the right thing for our husbands to do is to watch us die.
• 1:04:02
  Serendipity: And that's what the brainwashing of the podcast like conclusion brings you to.
• 1:04:08
  Serendipity: And I know that everybody on that side of the fence that is in the membership or close to Emily currently would be like, oh no, no, no, no.
• 1:04:17
  Serendipity: That's that's not what we mean.
• 1:04:19
  Serendipity: You're being too extreme, you're misinterpreting, you're extrapolating.
• 1:04:23
  Serendipity: And I'm really not like I have seen it when I was in it.
• 1:04:27
  Serendipity: There was a member that divorced her husband because she woke up in a hospital bed and she would have rather died.
• 1:04:35
  Serendipity: And I don't know if she still feels like that, but we when when she came out of that, you know, we were all like, Oh, how dare your husband call.
• 1:04:44
  Serendipity: And I I feel so much regret now because I know that that's not like that's not what I meant.
• 1:04:52
  Serendipity: You know, that I didn't mean to be in in this world where I think that it is better for a woman and her baby to die rather than to seek help.
• 1:05:03
  Serendipity: That, you know, that her family is going to have a less traumatic experience with a sovereign death than hospital interference.
• 1:05:15
  Angela: Yeah, yeah, that's really, really crazy.
• 1:05:18
  Angela: To share those stories and not any transfer stories, and then to share things like, you know, even though people are messaging her saying, Hey, how did a hemorrhage happen?
• 1:05:29
  Angela: Like, even though you said that never happens, and then to say on her podcast, like in a specific like her and yo episode about hemorrhage, I've never heard that happen, you know, like that's yeah.
• 1:05:41
  Serendipity: I when I was first getting out, I was fortunate enough to be like there was a mass exodus of inner circle leave uh members leaving.
• 1:05:52
  Serendipity: And we really all banded together in in solidarity and decompressed a lot.
• 1:05:59
  Serendipity: And one of the things that we it took us like a year to realize was that we collectively had known her for five to six years.
• 1:06:09
  Serendipity: And in those six years, from what like from you know SUNY's birth to 2023, she had maybe attended four to six births.
• 1:06:22
  Serendipity: And it's like, well, of course, she's never seen a hemorrhage if she's only attending one birth a year, you know, and and I think that that was like it was such like I I would have never believed that still being in it, you know.
• 1:06:42
  Serendipity: If I would have heard that, even if somebody would have like shown me the timeline of like this is when she lived in Denver and she only attended one birth here, like in her whole entire time living in North Carolina, she attended two, or I think she got paid for like three or four, but she only made it to two or something like that.
• 1:07:01
  Serendipity: Any like these are not numbers that you're going to gain actual experience with.
• 1:07:09
  Serendipity: And, you know, from all of the these women that were around Emily while she's like preparing for these births and going, like, she acts like a novice.
• 1:07:21
  Serendipity: You know, she really acted like, you know, it was her first time.
• 1:07:25
  Serendipity: She made very, you know, like, and I we kind of I I we kind of joked about it, but I do think it's very serious.
• 1:07:33
  Serendipity: We couldn't, I I could never imagine her making food for another woman.
• 1:07:38
  Serendipity: I could never imagine her putting on a kettle to make a tea a postpartum tea, you know, and so it's cleaning out, changing someone's sheets, right?
• 1:07:48
  Serendipity: Like right, cleaning up blood off the floor, like, you know, and so if you are somebody that is listening to the podcast that's maybe still part of the membership, that maybe is idealizing, oh, it would be so great to have Emily at my birth, like she she's you know, she's gonna miss it and she's not even gonna put a T on for you, you know, like she'll tell you to spend an extra $300 for a house cleaner because she's not gonna do that.
• 1:08:17
  Serendipity: And so it it was so hard for me in leaving to realize that she had never actually like I had never actually witnessed her care for another woman.
• 1:08:32
  Serendipity: I've witnessed a bunch of women care for her.
• 1:08:35
  Serendipity: You know, I've witnessed a bunch of women make tea for her, make her a bath, make her change her sheets, pick up her clothes off the floor.
• 1:08:45
  Serendipity: Um, but I've never actually witnessed her bring a nursing mom, like a high-fat macha latte.
• 1:08:53
  Serendipity: And it it was shocking to me because I didn't see it until I was out.
• 1:08:58
  Serendipity: When I was still in it, I would have been like, oh, of course I've witnessed her care for women.
• 1:09:03
  Serendipity: Of course I've witnessed her.
• 1:09:05
  Serendipity: Look at how much she puts out online.
• 1:09:06
  Serendipity: Look at how, you know, she holds space for so many women.
• 1:09:10
  Serendipity: She gives her free energy out to so many women.
• 1:09:13
  Serendipity: But it's like now, now that I'm out, I can really analyze it and I can really see it for what it was.
• 1:09:21
  Serendipity: And it's all, you know, smoke and mirrors.
• 1:09:24
  Angela: Yeah, that's that's really crazy.
• 1:09:27
  Angela: So, how has this journey changed your views on birth, on like birth autonomy, community, and personal sovereignty?
• 1:09:38
  Serendipity: So that's it's a big question.
• 1:09:41
  Serendipity: Thank you.
• 1:09:42
  Serendipity: I you know, I was so like I was so so attracted to free birth as a radical experience that a woman in a family could go through.
• 1:09:57
  Serendipity: And I really did buy into as long as you are like you're healthy going in, you'll be healthy coming out.
• 1:10:04
  Serendipity: And even for the at-risk people, it's probably safer to do it yourself than you know, have a an authority that would that that might traumatize you.
• 1:10:15
  Serendipity: And it's like now the way I see things is like birth is messy.
• 1:10:21
  Serendipity: And yeah, like some things in life are traumatic.
• 1:10:25
  Serendipity: Birth can be one of them in your story, like, and that's just like the and there's nothing that you can do about it, you know.
• 1:10:32
  Serendipity: I really do think that positive birth experiences, whether they're a free birth or a home birth or a hospital birth, I think that it's almost a matter of luck.
• 1:10:42
  Serendipity: I think that anything can go wrong at any moment.
• 1:10:45
  Serendipity: And you know, like I think that it's really harmful to be like, oh, it's like taking a poop, or it's like driving a car, or it's like cooking dinner, you know.
• 1:10:55
  Serendipity: And it's like, no, you do those things every single day.
• 1:10:59
  Serendipity: Like you don't get to give birth every single day.
• 1:11:02
  Serendipity: There's there's a difference.
• 1:11:04
  Serendipity: I the the first so in my friend group of the inner circles, the first one to leave was said uh I'm not gonna get the quote exactly right, but she was like, free birth is the ultimate sister wound.
• 1:11:20
  Serendipity: And I think that I'm at that place right now where I think that any woman should birth any way that she wants.
• 1:11:28
  Serendipity: I don't think that there should be any laws or regulations on it.
• 1:11:31
  Serendipity: But I do think that, you know, if you literally don't have anyone to support you and you don't want anyone's support, not even medical support, but just like a mom to be there, or you know, like a friend or anything like that.
• 1:11:47
  Serendipity: Like if you don't want people to see you while you're vulnerable, I I don't think I think that there's a larger issue.
• 1:11:54
  Serendipity: I don't think that that's a healthy thing to want, uh to be alone and secluded.
• 1:12:00
  Serendipity: You know, I I had a I have a very good friend, and she has had two amazing free birth, amazing wild pregnancies.
• 1:12:09
  Serendipity: On the day that she delivered her second child, she told her husband to go to work because she knew she could birth without him, you know, whatever.
• 1:12:18
  Serendipity: It's no big deal.
• 1:12:19
  Serendipity: But her toddler was there, and as she was like transition and like puking and transition, her toddler was like, Mom, I'm hungry.
• 1:12:27
  Serendipity: And she was just like, You're gonna have to wait, you know?
• 1:12:31
  Serendipity: And it's like, if if you would have had anyone there, like so.
• 1:12:37
  Serendipity: I think that you know, I've I've really changed my mind in the sense of I don't think that free birth is the ultimate liberation for women.
• 1:12:48
  Serendipity: I think that there are many women that will have amazing free births and very positive free births, but I think that in extreme cases, I think that it's just, you know, I think that people, I think that like if you're so one of the things that I would bring up to Emily is like, you know, what about women who are in abusive situations?
• 1:13:13
  Serendipity: And she's like, they should get a hotel.
• 1:13:15
  Serendipity: And I'm like, that is not the answer because what do you do in your postpartum?
• 1:13:20
  Serendipity: You know, like if you have an abusive husband and you're in a hotel room doing a free birth, who's gonna take care of you in the the first few hours after that?
• 1:13:31
  Serendipity: You really think it's safer for an abused woman to be alone in a hotel room?
• 1:13:37
  Serendipity: Like that's that's messed up.
• 1:13:40
  Serendipity: That is that is not liberating for anyone.
• 1:13:43
  Serendipity: Another story I want to share from my personal life is I I had heard of free birth before I joined Free Birth Society.
• 1:13:50
  Serendipity: I had three friends in my life who had free births, amazing, amazing stories.
• 1:13:54
  Serendipity: One of my friends, her first birth was a what's a free birth, her second birth, she had a midwife, and then her third birth, she was planning in a hospital.
• 1:14:02
  Serendipity: And I was so confused.
• 1:14:04
  Serendipity: I was like, you're going backwards.
• 1:14:07
  Serendipity: Like, what's going on?
• 1:14:09
  Serendipity: And since I've left, I've been able to reconnect with her and kind of like apologize.
• 1:14:14
  Serendipity: And like now I see I'm like, she needed more support with each birth.
• 1:14:19
  Serendipity: You know, by the third by her third birth, she was 33 years old, you know, and she did have more health complications than she did when she was 21 during her first pre-birth.
• 1:14:29
  Serendipity: And she it was fine.
• 1:14:31
  Serendipity: She did want to be in a hospital and she didn't want her kids around, you know.
• 1:14:35
  Serendipity: And and so it it was it was so hard for me to be her friend, like to open up to be her friend again, because I I had completely abandoned that friendship thinking that she was backwards, thinking that, you know, she had gone in the wrong direction.
• 1:14:53
  Angela: Yeah, it's really uh I think so eye-opening to just, yeah, move past all of that dogma and all of that ideology that can develop when you're in that community to just include more people.
• 1:15:06
  Angela: And I feel like that was really something that was so helpful for me when I joined Wapio's community because she has a whole section where she talks about ideas versus ideology.
• 1:15:17
  Angela: Even with other things, it can be really easy to be like, oh, you should do this or you should do that to people, even like not related to birth.
• 1:15:24
  Angela: And it's all ideology.
• 1:15:26
  Angela: You know, you can have your own ideas, but when you're like telling other people what they should or shouldn't do, that's that's the ideology.
• 1:15:32
  Angela: But yeah.
• 1:15:33
  Angela: Yeah.
• 1:15:34
  Serendipity: Yeah.
• 1:15:34
  Serendipity: And it's like when I was in it, I would I would my response to that would be like, oh, I I don't have the authority to tell anyone what to do.
• 1:15:42
  Serendipity: I'll just cut you out of my life unless you do what I think you should do.
• 1:15:47
  Serendipity: You just don't get to have access to me unless you do what I think you should do.
• 1:15:53
  Angela: Yeah, yeah, and it's so hard because then I've actually worked with other women in the community as a dual that's like I went to some woman that like was trained by the Free Birth Society and like they were so mean to me, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
• 1:16:06
  Angela: You know, but like these some of these communities really did put out like women that were just kind of just mean to other women, and I don't just don't think that was really a value to the birth community, yeah.
• 1:16:17
  Serendipity: Yeah, no, I so I went through a rough childhood and it made me, you know, be be able to be uh strong and a little bit bitchy, and so when I met Emily and I saw how big of just a mean girl vibe that she was, it like gave me permission to be mean.
• 1:16:38
  Serendipity: I was like, oh, I can still be women-centered and mean.
• 1:16:41
  Serendipity: Like I can still be woman-centered and like my it's it's not my fault that you're taking my bluntness so personally.
• 1:16:50
  Serendipity: You know, that's a you problem.
• 1:16:53
  Angela: Yeah, choose your friends and influences wisely because yeah, it's so easy to rub off for sure.
• 1:17:01
  Serendipity: Um, and I so a lot of like the behavioral control in the inner circle, I think is, you know, it's all unspoken rules.
• 1:17:10
  Serendipity: Like we none of us were given like a field guide on like, you know, how to do this.
• 1:17:16
  Serendipity: But it was like we we would be publicly humiliated for anything, for anything, anything that she, you know, and it was so like one person could get away with doing it, but not the other person, you know, or she can get away with doing it, but not no one else.
• 1:17:33
  Serendipity: And so it's very disorienting, but I felt like you know, it just made me try harder to like be in her good graces, and like, you know, it would make me uh just want to prove my loyalty more.
• 1:17:50
  Angela: Yeah, yeah, such a tangled web.
• 1:17:53
  Angela: Yeah.
• 1:17:54
  Angela: Is there any part of your story or a message that hasn't been fully told yet that you want to emphasize today before we close up?
• 1:18:04
  Serendipity: I think that one of one of the things that this whole process has made me realize is that high control groups and cult dynamics are a lot different in you know this century or like, you know, like in 2026 and 2020 post-COVID than they were in the 70s.
• 1:18:22
  Serendipity: Like, you know, the the cults today do not look the same as they did 30, 50 years ago.
• 1:18:29
  Serendipity: So I joined in April of 2020.
• 1:18:32
  Serendipity: The first time I ever heard it be called a cult was June of 2020.
• 1:18:37
  Serendipity: And I probably heard it be called a cult once a month, every single month throughout my time there.
• 1:18:45
  Serendipity: And you know, she would even joke about being a cult leader.
• 1:18:49
  Serendipity: And so, like she does, you know, and so I think that I really do I find a lot of similarities between like between my time there and like being in abusive relationships.
• 1:19:02
  Serendipity: And you know, one of the things that I've seen is like like in abusive relationships, women tend to start off in one and then go to the next one and go to the next one and go to the next one.
• 1:19:14
  Serendipity: And so one of the things that I am really, you know, struggling with right now is I I'm scared to join any new groups.
• 1:19:22
  Serendipity: Like I I've stopped coaching because like I don't want to be a scam artist.
• 1:19:28
  Serendipity: And like I love teaching and I love coaching, and you know, a lot of women that I've worked with are like, please start doing it again.
• 1:19:36
  Serendipity: But like I I just like I haven't been able to like bring myself to it because I don't I don't ever want to be in, you know, I don't I don't want to scam women, I don't want to be in circles where I might meet another Emily, you know.
• 1:19:56
  Serendipity: And I say this because I also see so many women who have left this and then moved on to another high control group.
• 1:20:04
  Serendipity: And so I think that it's very important for everyone who has gone through Emily's group, Free Birth Society, or a similar high control group, to kind of do an inventory on their life and to do an inventory on yeah, patterns of behavioral control.
• 1:20:21
  Serendipity: And like, you know, if if you're so used to being in isolation and being secluded and only talking to people that are in your same group, maybe take a step back.
• 1:20:33
  Serendipity: You know, there there's a lot of different resources online to see if you are in a high control group or to see if you have um, you know, are in a cult.
• 1:20:43
  Serendipity: And I I really suggest that anyone that's been through Freeverse Society to kind of take an inventory of the groups that they're currently in now to see if they are similar in any uh bad ways.
• 1:20:56
  Serendipity: One of the the biggest signs to see if the group that you're in right now is a cult or not is if people are still are allowed to leave and still be in contact.
• 1:21:07
  Serendipity: And so, like when I was in Free Birth Society, I like that that's one thing that I don't think I could have seen past, you know, because I knew that everybody that would leave that would leave, I would have to talk to them in secret.
• 1:21:21
  Serendipity: You know, I wouldn't like I wouldn't be able to collaborate with them in public.
• 1:21:26
  Serendipity: And so like if you're in a group that if somebody leaves and they are excommunicated from the group, that might not be a group that has your best interest in mind or has the world's best interest in mind.
• 1:21:40
  Angela: Yeah, it's really serious.
• 1:21:41
  Angela: Like you said, like an abusive relationship, really.
• 1:21:45
  Angela: So this is this is all really helpful.
• 1:21:49
  Angela: Are there any final reflections that you'd like to share?
• 1:21:54
  Serendipity: I really just I I really hope that women can separate free birth from free birth society because Emily and Yolanda are not able to separate themselves from free birth.
• 1:22:11
  Serendipity: I think that they have brought it onto an identity and they are acting as if you if you are against them, then you are against women.
• 1:22:22
  Serendipity: If you are against them, then you're against free birth.
• 1:22:25
  Serendipity: If you're against them, then you're against everything that free birth society says that they stand for.
• 1:22:32
  Serendipity: And it's a lot different than, you know, in-person ones because it is online.
• 1:23:07
  Serendipity: And I think that there's a a lot of women out there that it's really hard, it's a hard pill to swallow to say, like, you know, like I I found this group through my little tiny device, you know, and now I'm letting it control my thoughts, emotions, relationships, information, behaviors.
• 1:23:28
  Serendipity: And it it it's it was such a gradual process for me to pick apart my life and to figure out exactly how much of my life was actually getting influenced by this cult.
• 1:23:45
  Serendipity: And I still feel like I'm I'm still struggling to pick it up.
• 1:23:49
  Serendipity: I'm still struggling to figure out, you know, what is me, what is not me, what what bad habits did I pick up through during my three years in it?
• 1:23:58
  Serendipity: What bad habits did I bring into it?
• 1:24:00
  Serendipity: And then they were exalted.
• 1:24:02
  Serendipity: And now I feel like I'm such a cool person because I have like these mean or you know, controlling habits that I don't mean to have.
• 1:24:10
  Serendipity: And I honestly, I like like I'm going through life just trying to not join another cult, you know, like and it's it's it's a weird time, but you know, I I think that it's given me a little bit of a superpower because now I can I can spot them.
• 1:24:30
  Serendipity: I'm like, oh, they they want to control your thoughts, behaviors, emotions, and relationships.
• 1:24:35
  Serendipity: Like that's a red flag.
• 1:24:37
  Serendipity: Like, oh, the these ideals in this religion or in this church or in this community want to have a very tight grasp, a very short leash on your thoughts, information, behaviors, and relationships.
• 1:24:52
  Serendipity: Like, let me let me keep those things close to me until until I'm able to discern better.
• 1:24:59
  Angela: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:25:00
  Angela: Just being really careful, like where you spend your time, you know, and your energy for sure.
• 1:25:06
  Serendipity: Exactly.
• 1:25:06
  Serendipity: And I just want to say thank you so much.
• 1:25:09
  Serendipity: I really do think that Freebird Society is a dangerous organization.
• 1:25:14
  Serendipity: I think that lives are on the lines for women who are listening to the podcast, for women who are bought into that ideology.
• 1:25:23
  Serendipity: And I I want to see them stopped.
• 1:25:25
  Serendipity: I I want to see all of the content taken down.
• 1:25:28
  Serendipity: I want to see the podcast taken down.
• 1:25:31
  Serendipity: And I really do believe that lives are on the line.
• 1:25:34
  Serendipity: And I I really admire all of the episodes that you're putting out.
• 1:25:39
  Serendipity: Because yeah, I don't, I don't want it to just be the guardian.
• 1:25:43
  Serendipity: I don't want it to just be the Reddit page.
• 1:25:45
  Serendipity: I think that, you know, it it's too easy to be like, oh, they the that's too, you know, like there's not enough proof or, you know, whatever.
• 1:25:55
  Serendipity: It's too big.
• 1:25:56
  Serendipity: But I think that the women that listen to your podcast, it's the exact audience that needs to hear it.
• 1:26:03
  Serendipity: And thank you for having a place to talk about this.
• 1:26:06
  Serendipity: I know that a lot of your audience has been affected by this, and you know, it it hasn't stopped yet.
• 1:26:12
  Serendipity: She's still up and running, she's still giving bad birth advice, she's still putting women's lives and their babies' lives at risk.
• 1:26:20
  Serendipity: And, you know, I'm not doing this for some 15 minutes of fame or anything like this.
• 1:26:25
  Serendipity: I'm doing this because I truly believe that lives are on the line.
• 1:26:30
  Angela: Yeah, well, thank you so much.
• 1:26:31
  Angela: We really appreciate you.
• 1:26:33
  Serendipity: Thank you.
• 1:26:40
  Kate Sutherland: Follow the walk of the wild ones into the woods and the darkness.
• 1:26:45
  Kate Sutherland: Rebirth the waves of the ancient ones whose tracks were washed away flood.
• 1:26:50
  Kate Sutherland: It's all to us now to open up and take the on the weak.
• 1:26:55
  Kate Sutherland: Take up the big up the way to be able to take the big one.
• 1:27:51
  Kate Sutherland: Step by step through the unknown, I'll be on the light and you'll be fine.
• 1:28:10
  Kate Sutherland: In darkness, let love light the way to feed the soil of changing times.
• 1:28:16
  Kate Sutherland: Step by step through the unknown, I'll be alighting you'll be mine.
• 1:28:20
  Kate Sutherland: In darkness, let love light the way to feed the soil of changing times.