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Abenaa Hayes: Manifesting Your Bold Vision · The Bold Lounge

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or douse along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Today I have Abana Hayes.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: She is the founder and CEO of LEZ Consulting.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome, abana.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I'm so happy to be here with you?
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've seen each other on LinkedIn, we've connected and you know almost in real life but the virtual sense.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: So excited to see you today about your company.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: So can you tell us a little bit more about LEZ Consulting and what services you provide and what you do?
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: So LEZ Consulting is a DEI and health equity focused consultancy.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I help companies build equity one step at a time.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: So if you're in need of figuring out what your corporate DEI strategy is, what the positioning is, how to manage all the issues in the world that we're navigating, and also just how you come up with campaigns and programs that focus on specific communities, I am here to serve as your strategist and also communications advisor.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Some of the outcomes include strategic frameworks that help companies figure out how they could actually implement DEI within their companies.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: I also create narratives and positioning statements.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: So all the things you want to say to the world in terms of why you focus on DEI, what your results and outcomes look like and what the stories are connected to that in your company that you want to tell, I help you create those.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I also create playbooks to help people navigate all of the social issues that we're dealing with today and then, lastly, help you come up with meaningful programs that help reach communities and help drive social impact.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it sounds like a multifaceted way to look at DEI, not just one dimensionally, but really looking at it from the messaging, from the content, from the creating, the individual messages and plan for your company, which each company has a different culture, has a different meaning within each company.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: So you really extract that, bring that out and really curate a personalized experience for each company.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: It's that personalized experience, it's the holistic approach and it's one that's bespoke to each company.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Well, let's get into being bold.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: What is your definition of bold?
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: So for me, bold means taking brave leaps of faith.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: It's really truly taking those chances, taking advantage of possibilities and opportunities that come your way.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Very often when we do that, you may not know what the outcome is, but for me it's really truly leaning into intuition and leaning into what your vision and aspiration is, and those are the two things that serve as the motivators when I've had to take those leaps, both in my personal life, but then also as a professional and across my career.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, we'll dig into some of those words, like intuition and opportunity and how you identify it.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: But what I'd love to know, based on your definition, when was the first time you remember being bold or a very bold, memorable moment?
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: They come in a lot of shades.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: So many different shades.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: The first truly leap of faith for me was when I was 14 years old.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I grew up in Trinidad and Tobago and had gone to a career fair where there were representatives from a whole slew of universities in the US, canada and the UK who were, you know, just presenting all of their prospectuses and I said to myself then that I wanted to go to McGill University in Montreal because it's where my dad had gone to medical school.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Montreal was the city I was born in and I was like I think this is where I want to go.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: And so I went home and on my chalkboard I literally mapped out what we call a vision board where I said by age 17, I was going to be at McGill University.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: And then, because I'd gone to Los Angeles the summer before and was really in love with California, I was like you know what?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be in grad school in California and graduate by the time with a master's degree by the time I'm 21.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: And it was up there on my chalkboard for quite some time and, lo and behold, I accomplished most things.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I actually started McGill the same year that I'd written on my vision board and ended up going to USC Annenberg in Los Angeles.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: I love storytelling.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I come from a culture of storytelling.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I wanted to actually be like Cristiana Montpour.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: I actually started USC two weeks after the Rodney King riot.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: So as someone who was interested in journalism and telling the stories about not only social justice, racial justice and what change should look like, there probably could not have been a better time to move to a city like Los Angeles to do journalism and to learn that craft.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: It terrified my mother.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: I mean she actually was suggesting that I rescind my enrollment and reconsider going to another school because she just didn't know what the city was going to be like in the aftermath of the riots.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: But when I kind of mapped out that vision board at age 14, it's just quite interesting just to see how that all played out.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some could call that visioning, some could call that manifesting.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: It's to me a combination of both of those.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: What made you, at 14, put those big goals up there?
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Like, where did that come from?
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Does it come from inside you or your parents?
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: The folks that we surround ourselves with often help us or can harm us, depending on how we're raised.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: But just in the sense of like, where did your bold gene come from?
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Because those are some bold goals, especially for a 14-year-old.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say it's a combination of what was in me, but then also what I was seeing from my parents and those around me.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, because I'm a huge believer in seeing as believing Both of my parents, who are both no longer with us, actually achieved pretty huge things in their short lives.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: You know my father, for example, who passed away at age 40, he did two residencies and had two specialties he was an immunologist and he was an enthrologist, which is a specialist in kidney disease.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: He had the opportunity to further his career in New York City and decided to go back to Trinidad, to give back to his community, and he saw that there was a need for medical care and accessible medical care in kidney disease.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: And he started a nonprofit the year before he died that provided free medical care to people who had kidney disease.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: And he did all of that before the age of 40.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: My mother she was not only a lawyer, she was one of the first female judges appointed to the courts of law in Trinidad and she accomplished that at age 33.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: And then she took on managing the nonprofit after my father passed away.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: So managing a public health nonprofit was her side hustle.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: In doing that, she launched health awareness campaigns.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: In Trinidad she launched a medical conference which went on for years.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: And if that wasn't enough, my mother loved interior design so she also ran a bed and breakfast which she called Sweets El Eze, because the neighborhood we grew up in in Trinidad was called the Champs Elysees, so she kind of wanted it to be an homage to our neighborhood.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: And she did all of those things in her 30s and in her 40s, so just kind of seeing how they just what seemed to be effortless as a child Right.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: When I think of where I am today.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: They're not only the role models that I continue to look to, but I also really want to continue to build on their legacy.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're very inspiring.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I mean just even thinking about the things that they continue to do even after they're not here, like the impact that they have.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: And that's what it's all about, like, do as much as you can while you're here, serve others, add value, be kind all the things that were taught, but what a legacy they're leaving.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: And then you're continuing that legacy and I love the name connection to your mom's bed and breakfast into your consulting firm.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: So that's pretty awesome.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: So you had bold all around you.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that you said which I thought was really interesting is sometimes, when we see people being bold, we think it's effortless, or especially as a child, with your parents and the things that you see them do or go through.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: As a child you don't know, but even as adults, I think sometimes we think, oh, wow, look at her, she's really doing it.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: She's X, y or Z, or he's X, y or Z.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: But behind the scenes there's a lot of hard work to being bold, right, whether it's a quiet bold or a loud bold.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: In your experience and in your bold journey so far, what have been the quietest moments of your boldness, where no one even knows?
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: It's not something you put on LinkedIn.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: It's not something you're going to put a post about.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: I would say one of the things that probably started to become a quiet thing that obviously now has become quite loud and quite visible because of the way I show up now on all of these platforms, is really truly leading into my voice.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: And then I'd also say kind of standing in and owning my power.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: And the reason I say those two things is living in a country where I'm both an immigrant and a woman of color.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: I have had to find ways to not only just either land the jobs that I had, but also self-advocate and also make sure that I was able to advance and get recognition.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: That hasn't always been easy, and the way I've had to use my voice, navigating the world that we're in, just given the different intersections of my identity, has been its own challenge.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: And there were times when just being quiet and being focused on the work and hoping that people see the value just based on your hard work has been the approach that I've taken.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: But I've realized that if I don't speak for myself and oftentimes no one else will, there are instances in which I've been very lucky, where I've had allies and advocates, but I also do have to speak for myself, and so I have become a lot more comfortable just owning and using my voice to not only make sure that I got all of what I deserved and what I recognized, but, most importantly, advocating for others, because we live in a world now where we all know that people who come from historically marginalized backgrounds or underrepresented backgrounds don't always necessarily get what they want.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: They literally get what's fair and what's due, but we are the ones who are powering the future, so my goal now is to really truly use my voice to help advance that.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: So there's a whole bunch of like be authentic, find your voice, LinkedIn.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I just feel very bossy.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: To me, yes, 100%, but one of the things that's on there sometimes is about being authentic, finding your voice.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: But it's not just that easy, it's not just oh, there's three tips and oh, I did it.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: It just doesn't work that way.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Right, At least for me, it doesn't work that way.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: So what are some of the first things especially a woman can do in the sense of finding their voice?
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And I think you know, in my experience, I've always had a voice, but I think I muted it in my 40s because I realized that even though I grew up like you belong wherever you want to go, you're at every table.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: I realized in my early 40s that I'm not sure that's true.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Mom, you know, dad, like I don't think they want to really hear my opinion.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: So I kind of muted myself and now I'm definitely off mute.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: You know I've turned it up but still managing myself a bit, you know, in the right way.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: But what are the steps that someone can take to kind of start to step into the voice, step into their authenticity?
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: That are truly things that someone can do, versus a one, two, three checklist on LinkedIn.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: So one of the things that I would recommend is actually starting to speak about the things that you're either passionate about or that are of interest to you, because it's easier to speak from a place of interest and passion versus something that's manufactured right.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Because for me, when I look at those lists and don't get me wrong I do try to follow all the tips and the tricks and sometimes I get frustrated because I'm like, well, this doesn't really sound like me.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: It's like sometimes they make it look like the formula, but I'm like, yeah, this is too canned, it doesn't seem real.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: But the minute you start talking about the thing that interests you, you're like, wait a minute, okay, fine, so I'm passionate about X.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I could talk about it in my own voice and it may actually resonate.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: An example of that was a post I recently did about seeing Beyonce.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Because I am a big culture vulture, I get teased in my family because I could probably beat everybody in trivial pursuit on everything related to pop culture.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Don't go to Abba now with some fact, because she will do not play you.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is me.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I love culture, I like commenting on culture, I will write about that and speak about that.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: So I actually saw Beyonce, like a lot of people in the Bayhide did, a few weeks ago, and talked about the fact that music is something I'm passionate about.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I come from a culture that is deeply rooted in music and music kind of fuels aspects of my life, and song lyrics serve as mantras.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: So I just wrote about the fact that the lyrics of Break my Soul were really truly the mantras that helped guide me as I was setting up my business.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I literally wrote it as I just articulated it to you and the post resonated.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: The same goes for there was a post I had done on Trinidad Carnival, which is an experience onto itself, and I posted a photo of me in my bejeweled headpiece and I talked about the fact that I was literally living culture in action.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Right, we talk about how influential culture is with things that we do in our lives and with the brands that we represent and like, but here's how I actually just live it day to day.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I spent two days in a bejeweled headpiece with feathers on my shoulders, living my Trinidadian culture.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: That also resonated as well.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: So it's just like it's starting with the things that you love.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's helpful because speak from that place of passion and authenticity.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely noticed that as I talk with my clients of you know we'll be talking about something and they may be talking about you know the curiosity they have or something they want to learn more about or something they want to try, and you can literally feel and see the energy and then like sit up straight or they lean in, they smile.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: You know they're talking about their work and maybe their work is their joy and that's definitely some of the case.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: But I would say half of them are thinking about I want to just learn, I want to be curious, I want to try something new, and that and taking action on it is a bold step, right.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: So you, as a 14 year old, putting this up on your chalkboard of what I want to do I'm going to McGill and then I'm going to get my masters in Los Angeles and you did that.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Check, check.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: What happens next?
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: What's on that chalkboard at USC?
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: So that was where it became kind of very broad, because I wanted to be like Cristiana Montpour, right, the thing I loved about her is she defied the norms, right.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, she was on the front lines of the war in Yugoslavia.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: That's where she truly cut her teeth.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: So I actually started mapping out what my life as a reporter, slash anchor was possibly going to be.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: But then I had a bit of a detour because, you know, I was like I'll get the masters, I'll move to New York.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Because my grandparents were like come try New York for a year.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: So I was like okay, I'll come to New York, I'll get this production assistance job and I'll work my way up.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Well, we had a recession and those jobs were scarce.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: So then came pivot and I was like how do I use these skills to do something different?
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: And I happened to be temping at an ad agency and walked into the head of HR's office because he was like I'm happy to give you career advice, and I was like I tell stories, I'm a journalist.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: By training.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: I think I can break into PR.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: How do I do this?
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: He gave me the name of three people.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Fast forward eight months later I had my first agency job and that was when I started mapping out what that career was going to look like.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Right Cause, I was like I have a skill set that's in a toolbox.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I had to pivot.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: How do I make this career work?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And so I created the action plan for my career in PR.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And then from your perspective of your creation.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: This is one thing I think people need to understand is it's usually not linear Like here's point A, point B.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: It's a straight line and here I go walking it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: It's usually more like an up and down and up and down, and maybe down and down and down and up.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: You know, like it just depends.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: What were some of the ups and downs kind of of your journey to now?
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: You have your own business, you're a founder and CEO of your own company.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Was that on the plan?
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: So, first of all, the founder and CEO of my consultancy was not on my plan, but you probably know this well, there were people who saw that for me and I did not see it for myself.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: My brother was like you should have done this years ago.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I have several friends who told me the same thing because over the course of that journey, which I like to say is more like the jungle gym, there were lots of highs, where I got to work on groundbreaking campaigns in HIV, which at a time when patient advocacy and scientific development was really truly groundbreaking.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: So I was able to kind of hone my skills when it came to partnering with patient communities, with telling really compelling scientific stories about scientific breakthroughs.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: The same happened when I worked in oncology.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I started working in that area when people really started looking at genetic medicines.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Right Now we live in a world where people talk about targeted therapies.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I worked on and launched some of those, the first few medicines in that field.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I also expanded my skillset working in public health across a range of different therapeutic areas and then started doing DEI work on the site and I kind of took advantage of the things that came my way to expand the skillsets and kind of maximized those opportunities to build the resume.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: But there were times, like you just said, I had a few lows right, because I have worked over the past 25 years in a time where we've gone through about three recessions now.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: So I have worked in instances where I've had to literally eke out opportunities where they may not have necessarily existed, to not only preserve job security but also support my clients.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: I've had to deal with different political situations, working across different companies and having to navigate that and make sure that I not only stayed employed but that I also still had opportunity right, because we operate in a very competitive world and it's so easy to just get sideline just knowing that many people are going after the same thing.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I think that that experience in and of itself made me resilient, but I think it also just reminded me of all of the different skillsets I had in my toolbox.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: So, fast forward to me now being a solo entrepreneur, I've been able to lean into a lot of the learnings that I had across my career to make sure that I could manage both the pivots, the recalibrations, but also just really truly be smart about how I talk, about what I do.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: So you had many different roles across your career and you utilize them or leverage them to learn more, to understand and to expand your toolbox Versus.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes people look, I was like, oh, that's not what I do.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: I do this, I don't do that, I can't do this cause that's really not what I do.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: But what you did was like, well, I can do almost anything, and if I don't know it, I can learn it, and so that's really a growth mindset Like you.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: You've been born with that.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I think you know from what I'm hearing.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: The other thing I heard from you is you were having what I think you would call and I would call entrepreneur moments inside these organizations where you were using these skills to help an organization inside of it, and now you've been able to most likely apply those to your entrepreneurial world that you're in.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Is that fair to say?
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: That is totally fair to say.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: If you think of your top two, or some of the things that you learned as an entrepreneur that you've now like extracted and you amplifier, do something differently because of your learning as an entrepreneur.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: So I would say one of the key things is really truly moving from a place of faith because one when you're building something, you might have a go to market plan that is very set, based on a strategy, some KPIs and so on, but you never know how an opportunity is going to actually help you build like a case study for the work that you're doing, but or expand your skill set.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: So, for example, when I was starting both the practice that I was building up my last agency, which was W2O, and then also now building my own consultancy, I was like I'm here to be a healthcare strategist.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I'm here to help companies determine how they actually create their DEI strategy, how they engage with their stakeholders, how they do things like multicultural marketing and engagement, and there are very set ways that people could do that.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: But one of the key things that I learned, both as an entrepreneur but also now in my businesses the heart of doing that work is having meaningful conversations with people to help them figure out their why, figure out where they need to go, how they actually execute it, and that comes from having meaningful conversations.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: So actually, one of the things that I've learned is I could lean into doing workshops and master classes.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Did I ever think that this was going to be something that I would do?
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: No, but it's something that just came out of me, just kind of crafting and building what the business was going to be, and just knowing that has actually allowed me to lean in more to actually doing things that may not necessarily be part of a master plan but are nice kind of builds and evolutions that help me not only learn and grow but actually help me deliver for the people I'm working for.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting journey.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Similarity in the sense of when I first started, consulting really was all I had planned to do and I really just wanted to work with people who wanted to move at a rate and pace which was usually agile and who were open to being thoughtful, pragmatic but bold and getting things done.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I think what I learned in that process was like obviously there's the process of improvement, but there's the people that are there, and I think what came out of that was also something new to me.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: It's like I never thought I would be a coach.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I never thought I would be doing the bold retreat or the bold table or those sort of things that really came out of either like I see a gap, or I see something that there's a need and I can help, or I can learn from it too, and usually it's all three.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Like there's a gap, I learn from it and I hope I'm helping and serving, and so it sounds like you and your classes too, of helping people find their voice, not understand their why, kind of get there Like here you are, you're doing that too, which is another level of value and quality that you bring to your clients and the people that work with you.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: So good for you in the sense of being able to kind of be open to that too, because sometimes we plan for something and we're like wow, I never didn't think I would be doing this right now.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: One of the things that you talked about was culture and that some of the maybe the highest engagements for you of like on social media and stuff like that were around you just being authentically you and living your true self and showing your true self.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Sometimes the conventions that we live in or understand in our life push against what we, what our culture is, or what we want to be or want to show.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: What is your guidance or what are ways that you were able to like oh, you're not supposed to do that as the girl, you're not supposed to do that as a woman of color, or you should just be quiet, or whatever it may be.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: There's probably a gazillion we could list between the two of us.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: How does someone really work to be their true selves but also understand that there's these conventions?
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's our parents and sometimes it's the world we live in or our friends or people thinking we should be doing something different.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I would say, if I think about that just through the lens of my work life and kind of dealing with both colleagues and clients, has been framing how I either show up as a person or show up for them as a counselor, through the lens of what our shared beliefs are and shared goals.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Right, because at the end of the day, if we all know we're collectively working towards something, there has to be an agreement that there are different ways to get there, and my way of getting there might be different than what people are accustomed to, but if they know that at the end of the day, I'm here to help them accomplish a goal and to help guide them, support and protect them in the process, that, to me, is the thing that has helped people have an appreciation for how I show up and how I work.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I love how you referred to being an innovative agitator, because one of the things that people always said about me in my corporate life was the fact that Abna will always deliver, she'll always give you excellent quality service and brilliant thinking, but she might not always follow the tried and true way.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Right, because every company has a way of operating.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: And it's funny because I will never forget the situation I was in with a client where we were trying to get agreement on a specific announcement and we had some serious resistors in the room who were like not going to do it this way, this won't work and so on.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: And I stepped in and very boldly kind of outlined what the pros and cons were.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And what I didn't realize in that moment was, as I was articulating it, more of my Trinidadian accent and lilt came out and I think that both distracted and disarmed some people in the room because it gave them pause and suddenly they agreed to what I was recommending.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes you go into a meeting and you're like, wow, I really thought I was going to be me, but then I was and it worked.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Wait, it totally worked.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those moments are always nice.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Those moments are always nice because going into it, I was warned.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: They were like you know, you gotta be careful, this may not work out well for you.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I was like well, we have an expression in Trinidad where we say you know, I'm going to try a ting, so you're going to try something and see if it works.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: And that is literally what I did in that moment.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then that's bold.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Like you said, that's a bold move, right, and you also knew, if it didn't work, what you would do to.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: You knew what you were doing.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Bold is intentional and I think there's a myth that bold is thoughtless and fearless and all these things where someone just thinks and it does not think and just leaps, and that's a myth, in my opinion, and I think it's very thoughtful, pragmatic and you've already thought about, like, if it goes left, this is what's going to happen and this is what's going to not be so good about it, and this is what I'm going to do, but oftentimes, like, we know what could happen if it goes right, but I probably, I think and I'm getting better and better, I think more and more about the right versus the if it goes left, but it's really, you know, an alignment of thinking of both sides of the coin that could happen.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: So that's very cool.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: So I think, in that sense, being able to understand that there are ways for you to push against, maybe convention of how you're supposed to act, who you're expected to be, what you're expected to look like, and do it in a way that's authentic to you and helps you actually either understand something better or helps others understand you better.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: So I just want people to hear that, because I think you're a great example of that and you've done it multiple times, not only in your career but can as you've grown up and then now in your own consultancy.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I have to touch on the music because it's something that's very meaningful to me.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I you know I can't imagine a world without music.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: I grew up in a home that there was always music on, just all types of music, all types of musicians.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: I would play with the vinyls and stack them up and those types of things.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: So music is very dear to me.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: It's actually, I think, part of my mental health and so I connect that to as well, to storytelling and like hearing someone else's song and the things that come out and use the Beyonce as your example.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: But when you talk about your connection to music and kind of that song, what is music to you and how has it helped you on your journey?
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: And basically understand how to bring out the true you or have something, understand how you're feeling.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: So music to me not only serves as a source of inspiration, it's just like the fuel that keeps you going, it's also just kind of a core part of my life.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: You know, like my friend, one of my childhood friends was visiting me a few weeks ago and she was, like have you ever stopped to think that, you know, when you're in a Caribbean household like, there's just always music on?
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: For some reason.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: There's music that we put on in the morning when you're getting up.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: There's music that you literally put on when you're in the shower, like I crack up that my niece and nephew like literally take their iPhones into the bathroom and they have a full-on soundtrack when they're getting ready.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: And there's music when you're making a meal, and then there's just music that you have on.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Right, it's just, it's almost like a life force in some way.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: I think it's just critical to just not only getting through the day but, to your point, like really truly helping you with your mental health.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: One of the things that I was actually both teased about but people loved me for was the fact that I would make curated playlist.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: I have clients who called me DJ Abby because Abby is one of my nicknames, yeah, and we would go to conferences and when you'd get in the car service of the Uber they'd be like what is DJ Abby going to play today?
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, I literally still have playlists from different client events, different meetings.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I have them for my book club.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: I did the playlist for two friends, bachelorette parties and milestone birthdays.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: I've become that person and you know I love music so much that I could hear a baseline from blocks away and identify what the song is.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I'm like my own Shazam music service, yeah.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Nice, we should definitely hang out.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: We definitely should yeah.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's all kinds of music.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: There's the I will like kind of.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I think there are some that are just like really intense and angry.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I usually don't I'm not drawn towards that, but just about everything else, from classical to to reggae to salsa, to I like it brothers to OAR to Dave Matthews, like it's all in there.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: And I think what's interesting too is just when you listen to different types of music or if you see an artist like, you become immersed in their culture.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: You are part of that right and you're connected there's.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: There's a connection that I think maybe people don't think about.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: They think, oh, here it sounds good, I like it, you know, but it's deeper than that and I think that's that's something that also is meaningful to me and to you.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: It sounds like as well.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: So if you had a song on your own album, like of your life tracks, what would be a song or two title that you would say kind of you think about your journey throughout your life, like what would be a song or two that would really represent one of those moments?
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: So I'm thinking like, just through different like, like.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: So the song that was on a constant playlist for me when I was in high school was Running Up that Hill by Kate Bush.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: And I love that song because it literally tells a story.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Like you listen to it, you can tell the story about the characters in the song.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: It also, to me, is truly symbolic of who Kate Bush is as a musician, as an artist and as a woman.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Like you could feel all of that in that song.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I would also say there's another 80 song called it's my Life, by a group called Talk Talk.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: That really, truly to me, symbolizes the importance of owning who you are and having agency in your life and doing what it is that you wanna do.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would also say, just bringing it back to Beyonce, I still have to double click and double down on Break my Soul.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me about that song.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Where do you connect the most with that song, or is it just everything about it?
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I think one.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: It really speaks to leaning into being brave and doing your own thing right, cause there's a lyric in the song about being on your own vibration and really truly looking for like a new foundation.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: That to me, really truly is like the ethos of me being an entrepreneur.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: But it also talks about the fact that you're breaking free of something right, because that song was so very emblematic of everything we saw going on in COVID and people being part of the great resignation and really truly choosing their own path and creating their own adventure.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very empowering song, right, very empowering song.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know how you can listen to that song and not feel like you're gonna go conquer the world or like you're gonna make a change.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: You're gonna make a change.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: It's also about really truly owning and channeling your power.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: You will break my soul like I'm here for my new vibration.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Yep, and I own it and I have agency, which is such a big deal to me, because I think sometimes people really are waiting for something else to happen, someone else to do something?
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, when she does this, then I'll do that, or when he does this, then I'll say this.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: And it's like the time is now.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: People, you know, I want you to hear us today, hear Beyonce.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, like find your way, because there's no better time than the present to figure that out, and it doesn't have to be 100 leaps tomorrow, it can be.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: You write a down, a piece of paper, you figure it out, you start to like chunk those things out and work towards those goals.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes we may make it harder than it really is, but the hardest thing I think sometimes is actually just realizing that you're it, yeah, you're it.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: And as we kind of think about advice to someone or guidance to someone who's really trying to, you know, if you go back to where you started with that chalkboard, maybe someone's starting with their chalkboard today at 50.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: What do they need to think through when they write on that board and what are the first steps they can take to be brave enough or bold enough to like put something out there.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I mean I would say, I mean I always say start small Because, like, small steps always lead to big change.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: So, if I even take the advice my brother gave me when I knew I was going to step out on my own was.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I was like where do I start with this?
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: He goes just go to legalzooncom.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Like just create the LLC.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, OK, OK, and that was pretty easy, right, Just creating the LLC.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: I was like, OK, Then you know.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: It was like what's the next small step, Because you have name.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Then, in my case, I had to like figure out what the business was.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: I was like, OK, maybe I want to do like two things in the next three months.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: Just like think of the small things that are either achievable or things that you know that you could just do.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: And you don't have to post about it, you don't have to tell anybody, and you?
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: don't always have to.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: That's the thing.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Like I know it's funny you mentioned that because I didn't post about any of this for probably about four months, because I literally was mapping things out on a whiteboard.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's a small things.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: What are the things that make it feel real to you?
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: What's the thing that's going to make you feel like you're making progress?
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Maybe calling a mentor and kind of like mapping out like a three or a six month plan?
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Is it reaching out to potential prospects if you're building a business, to see what's feasible?
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Because if you don't make those steps to try to suss out what the thing is that you want to accomplish, is it real, is it not?
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: What do I need to change?
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: It just doesn't feel real, yeah.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: To continue being curious is bold, right, and I think, like you said, llc first, ok, what's next, ok, what's next?
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Usually that's what happens.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Once the ball starts rolling, it really starts to roll.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Mine was when I resigned I'm getting my first URLs.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: When I first started, that was like the OK, and then how do I incorporate and what is, what are the choices and what should I be?
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: An S corpus, c, corpus, llc?
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Well, what do I want to do?
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: And it was just like boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: It's like really thinking there is a possibility of something like the light just came on really really bright, like 100 watt, and it was amazing how much it started to flow and go faster.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: And I think that's really what you just got to do.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: That first thing, like just do it, you know it might not work.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: It might work, you know, but you won't know until you try.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: And I think that's where that, you know, courage is a whisper sometimes of yes, you can.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: And so I think that is incredible advice for people to hear from you and your success and all the things that you've done.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: As we close out, one of the things that you did that I want to highlight again is that you did different things throughout your role and you know you said yes more than no most likely to trying things.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: What would be your advice for someone who's feeling like I need to try something but I'm just afraid to fail, or I'm afraid someone may judge me or I'm not sure how it'll go?
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a firm believer in feeling the fair and doing it anyway, because if you don't try it, you won't know, right?
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: So I would always encourage people who are afraid of trying the thing to actually just do and see what happens.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I did almost too simple, but you don't know unless you try.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've heard it before, but you're hearing it again, most likely from both of us today, like you won't know until you try.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: I think we've both underscored.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be this huge, big, loud thing.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: It can be just a step, just a journaling, just a conversation with someone of like, I'm thinking about this, what do you think?
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's crazy?
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: And someone may say, yeah, it's crazy, but do it anyway, or try it, or like that's.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: So you Like I remember that people saying that and I was like I don't know if they meant that nicely, but I'm going to take it as a compliment.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: I think it's a compliment.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: I think it's important to take that as a compliment, because it just reinforces who you are.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the Bull Down.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: All the information about Abana and her consultancy is below in the episode notes on how to reach her.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of bold stories vulnerability to taking a leap you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.