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Hamster Omnibus! · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:16
  None. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
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  for doing quicker, quicker quicker. 321.
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  Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
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  Commentary Podcast. I am thrilled this evening to
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  have a brand new guest on the podcast, Mr. Dylan Reece.
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  Say hello, Dylan. Hello, Dylan.
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  How's it going? How are we?
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  Well done straight off the bat. You got that out.
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  I'm really well, Thank you. How are you doing?
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  I'm. Very well, thanks.
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  I'm very excited to be here to talk about some real life
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  televised Doctor Who. When podcasts collide as well.
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  Indeed, indeed. You have your very own Doctor
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  Who podcast. I do I do.
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  I have a podcast called Doctor Who Too Hot for TV, named after
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  the Jerry Springer spin off video.
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  I don't know whether anybody ever got that, that tenuous
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  reference, but our logos based on the Jerry Springer logo and
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  everything. And we look at all things Doctor
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  Who extended universe. So we look at books and comics
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  and audio books and scripts for unmade stories and things like
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  that. It's all nothing's too niche for
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  us as the as the catch phrase for the podcast goes.
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  Started off with me and my brother but he no longer does it
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  and now have a guest Co host every week talking about all
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  things extended universe. Most recently, we've just done
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  the script for the unmade 30th anniversary story The Dark
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  Dimensions as we record this. Bet that's interesting.
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  Oh, it's it's fabulous and a terrible, terrible script.
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  I think yours is the only podcast you know apart from mine
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  that has touched onto the BBV spin offs as well.
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  Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so I love the BBV stuff.
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  I wrote this is a plug, but many years ago I wrote a book called
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  Downtime, the Lost Years of Doctor Who, which looked at all
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  of the BBV and real time spin offs and stuff like that and
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  covered up the covered up like the whole of the 90s
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  essentially. And a little bit before and then
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  sort of the decline of that industry, little cottage
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  industry, shall we say. And I've just always loved those
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  spin offs, the good, the bad and the ugly of them.
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  So if yeah, we do. Excuse me.
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  Fuck darling. Invasion of work.
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  Where can I get out of that book?
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  You can get. That is my period baby.
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  I'm. Telling you.
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  You can get that from obverse books who do like the Black
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  Archive and stuff like that. It came out in 2015, so it's
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  quite a while ago, but it doesn't deal with the new era of
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  BV, shall we say, which is maybe for the best, I don't know.
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  I I've done commentaries on with my valve actually on Auton and
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  Shakedown, yeah. And the Devil of Winterbourne.
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  And because like this, like they were keeping the flame alive,
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  weren't they? Like, you know what, you know,
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  the production values are variable.
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  Sometimes the performances are variable.
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  But do you know what they were put in?
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  Materiality. I was eating it up at the time.
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  Yeah, and so was I I used to love them.
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  You know, I was like 11/12/15 or whatever when I like I was.
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  So yeah, it was all of my teenage years.
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  Those things sort of came out. So I've got, you know, very fond
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  memories of them. I think the production side of
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  things really suffers when you watch them now because it's a
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  bit like a, they're all shot on videotape like so it's pre
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  digital revolution. Also a lot of people have copies
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  of these things that are from recorded from videotapes years
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  ago. So they're not the best quality.
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  And actually the DVD versions do kind of scrub up as well as they
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  can. In fact, there's a I think it's
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  either the devil or the ghost of winter born when it was scrubbed
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  up in high definition. I could see a man's penis.
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  There is pants. I was like, I know you're.
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  Talking about. I tell you.
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  All right, we're so obsessed with these BBV things.
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  Myanmar went to see Joe Castleton, who plays What's the
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  one that's like Natasha Alexander in the all time spin
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  offs. We went and saw her at a local
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  theatre production. Incredible. 2.
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  Yeah, that's. The first we're talking about
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  again. Oh yeah, don't know.
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  Why bother? Why bother picking a television
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  episode? We could have just done BBV all
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  night. Well, that's it.
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  Don't you worry. There's time ahead of us.
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  All right, I haven't touched them.
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  Do you know what my favorite is? Have you ever seen Lost in
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  Space? Yes, I have seen.
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  Lost incredible girl power but so your podcast is available
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  What on all record podcast catchers?
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  Yes, catchers platforms, whatever they're called, I never
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  really know what to call them. I don't know where the catcher
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  things come from, but yes, you can get it there and you can
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  find me on Twitter at Dylan does Who and I post all the links up
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  and everything like that. But yeah, if you're interested
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  in if you're interested in tenuous Doctor Who spin offs or
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  you know, some of the more legit ones as well, then we we try and
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  cover them all. And I know some people said, oh,
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  but I don't know anything about them.
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  So I'm not sure whether I should listen.
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  We do do a quick plot synopsis before each thing.
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  So you don't you don't feel like you have to know the story of
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  the faction Paradox comic that lasted for two issues that we
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  covered on on one of the things. So yeah, just we try and make it
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  accessible. It's the.
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  Whole universe of storytelling that came out in that time,
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  isn't it? Don't really know about if
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  you've kind of joined with a new series.
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  I think going down that kind of niche Ave. that's kind of unique
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  and there are a lot of Doctor Who podcasts out there that
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  aren't doing unique things, so. Well, yeah, no, we as the 90s is
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  kind of the basis for it because that's my era.
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  But we did we, we've covered things from the 60s right
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  through to now. And next year I'm going to try
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  and cover a spin off from every doctor.
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  And I mean every doctor. I got me thinking now.
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  Do you mean those Doctor Who confidentials that William
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  Hartnall did back? In the 60s, no.
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  But you know this. This comic strips an annual
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  story. We covered an annual story in
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  one of them in which the 1st Doctor gets completely naked.
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  Honestly, I did a romance commentary the other day and I
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  was getting very hot under the collar.
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  And that sauna scene, The only sauna scene in Doctor.
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  Who? And it's William Hartnell and.
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  Nero. I think.
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  Of course it is. That's a rather brilliant segue
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  into the season that we're going to be talking about.
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  Today is indeed. Is season 2?
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  So a few questions then. What are your general thoughts
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  on the 1st, that sort of First Doctors era season 2 in general
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  and the Dalek invasion of Earth that we're going to talk about?
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  Well, so I, I love the Hartnell era and whenever I am invited
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  onto somebody's podcast to talk about televised Doctor Who, I'm
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  always itching for a chance to talk Hartnell.
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  I'm really not a fan of Susan, so I'm quite glad that she sort
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  of it gets the boot in this. Story It's custom built for you
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  though. But I, you know, I love William
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  Hartnell. I love, I love Ian and Barbara
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  and Stephen and even Dodo and Vicki.
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  Vicki is the queen and it I've, it took me a long time to learn
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  to love that era. Like when I got into Doctor Who
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  was a kid, I found it quite inaccessible for a long time.
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  It didn't feel like the Doctor Who I know.
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  So I guess that's why I like it a lot now, because it sometimes
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  feels not as fresh as other eras.
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  Like, I can tell you what happens in Revenge of the
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  Cybermen and Day of the Daleks verbatim almost because I
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  watched the VHSS on repeat as a kid, but the Hartner ones never
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  really got touched until I was in sort of my late 20s, I guess.
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  But I really kind of went back to them and revisited them again
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  and again and again. As I said to you, I would have
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  picked the keys of Mariners, but you'd already done that.
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  And I wanted like a, you know, I love a heart and a six parter.
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  So this this one seemed like a good one.
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  And maybe I was tempted by the Reign of Terror as well.
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  But I've recently done a podcast with the Doctor Who show about
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  Dennis Spooner's work. So I just thought, you know
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  what, let's go for this because it's not one that I'm hugely
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  fond of. It's not, it's never a go to
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  heartnell of mine. And I've got to be honest and
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  I'm sure I'm not alone. I much prefer the film version,
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  which I I know much better. Yeah, I, I, I think I prefer the
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  film just just mostly for the production value.
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  Although this this story is some is one that when I first watched
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  it, I just thought, wow, this is really creepy stuff.
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  And the more I've watched it, the more I feel like we might be
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  heading this way, you know, with about the Daleks.
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  I find it quite scary now, you know, and like with the Hartnell
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  era, I remember like, what was your, what was your least
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  favorite subject at school? It was either geography.
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  Well, yeah, probably geography, I reckon.
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  I loathed history, OK with meditation, born on insanity.
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  And when I discovered Doctor Who young, those Harnell historicals
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  really gripped me. I was like, my God, here's a way
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  I can actually learn about history that's going to keep me
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  interested. And I I still adore all of
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  those. And I tend to find my go to
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  harnells are the historical ones, the massacre mythmakers,
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  the gunfighters, the Romans, the Aztecs and the the science
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  fiction ones. There's a couple of really
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  strong ones, the Daleks. The Daleks master plan I think
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  is really strong as well. But I tend to find the science
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  fiction ones. I don't know, the BBC absolutely
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  could realise historical, whereas when we're heading into
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  the future, 2500 lbs was a long way to stretch, you know?
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  Well, I think they make a bloody fair stab in this.
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  They they do and I think like I think my go to heart knowledge,
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  probably the Romans or the gunfighters.
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  So I prefer I think I like them sillier.
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  I also really love the Reign of Terror and and the Keys of
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  Marinus, which I know I don't get a lot of love but I think
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  those are sort of my 3 or 4 go to's.
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  This is still Whittaker script editing vision of Earth, isn't
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  it? Yeah.
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  When does Spooner come in? Is it?
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  Oh, actually, Spooner comes in at some point during season 2,
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  but these are this and Planet of the Giants shop in season 1.
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  Yeah. So Spooner is basically from the
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  next story on Woods. I've got I've got a lot of love
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  for Dennis Spooner, but. I I just think he I think
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  William Russell says it best in the Romans documentary.
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  It's like suddenly all this humor hit the and we were
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  saying, you know, instead of saying this terrible old science
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  fiction B movie dialogue, we was just saying very funny, witty
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  lines with energy, you know, lines that you might actually
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  say. I love it.
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  He he makes he makes the characters real like he makes
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  them have. He makes them bicker in an
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  interesting way and have interesting relationships.
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  And I think you do start to see that formed here and towards the
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  end of that first season, But it's the second season where all
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  those relationships are really formed, especially when the
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  annoying Susan's gone, but more. About that later.
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  And I'll, I am Susan's at least I like I I really do not enjoy
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  Susan. And I've met Caroline Ford a few
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  times as well and had a few unusual incidents with her, one
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  where my hand was covered in ink and well anyway, it was awful,
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  man. Vicky comes in and she's full of
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  energy and excitement and up for the adventure.
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  Yeah, she's amazing, but unfortunately we've got 6
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  episodes of Susan to get through.
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  But. We'll be fine.
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  I'm like you though, I my favorite.
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  The two Arnold's or my go to's are the Romans and the
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  gunfighters. Yeah, they're so much fun.
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  They are. Really fun and and kind of
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  pacey. I think the Romans have got a
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  hell of a pace. It gives the I know we're not
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  talking about the Romans, sorry, any excuse to do it.
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  And you know, you want to talk about witty Darla?
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  I know my favorite lines in all of dogs.
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  Who is Maureen O'Brien going? Oh, by the way, I think I might
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  have poisoned Nero, you know? It's great.
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  Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a blast and it's a well, well
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  needed injection of humor because that you can tell that
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  the, the, the actors are just having a great time with it all.
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  So instead of watching a Doctor Who story full of jokes and good
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  humor, let's go to a war-torn, devastated Earth in nature.
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  Sounds wonderful. Well, look, do you want to
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  count? As in, let's press play.
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  Yeah. OK.
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  So we'll count press play in 321.
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  Off we go there. We go into time and space.
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  So do you think this is sort of like the end of that sort of
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  first era? Yes.
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  Coming out. Yeah.
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  I mean, it's it's interesting that it was shot as part of the
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  first season as well and held over because this does feel like
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  the natural, almost like the natural finale for that first
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  season. Instead, they end it on the
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  Reign of Terror, which as much as I like it, isn't exactly what
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  I would describe the season finale.
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  But yeah, it's it's, it's still a Corker of a story though, and
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  the opening of this is fantastic.
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  Do you remember the Terence Dick's opening to the novel of
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  Dalek Invasion of Earth? Was it again?
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  It was a a dead man? What?
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  No comment. You've a ruined man through a
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  ruined city. Yeah, something like that.
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  But yeah, I want a Corker of this guy.
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  Just this must have seemed so weird in the 60s, because if you
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  think about what Doctor Who's done before and all of a sudden
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  you've got somebody topping themselves at the start of an
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  episode, it's not it sets. The tide doesn't.
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  It it does and I do find like they try so hard in this story
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  to sell an apocalyptic world. They're not always successful,
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  but you know, they're really going for destroyed London and
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  like people who've got emotional trauma because of it.
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  But it, you know, it's just, it's, it's a great premise for a
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  story. You see the state of that
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  TARDIS? It's those those windows were in
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  a right state weren't. They, well, when they pop out
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  and Oh yeah, the windows are open, aren't they?
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  Yeah. They're sort of leaning in.
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  When they're doing the location footage later on it looks quite
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  hot so I imagine they just opened it or someone was
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  probably just having a crafty fag in there.
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  This is a perfect example of Richard Martin's very bizarre
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  direction in the studio. The camera is literally like
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  focused somewhere above the console, and William Hartlow's
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  head is just sort of, in short, just about it's.
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  Really hard. I was watching this today and
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  I'm just like I I, I'm not a huge fan of Richard Martin's
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  direction. He certainly does a lot better
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  when he's out on film than he does in the studios and this
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  considering what they get away with and what happens in other
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  stories like this, really feels like studio band.
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  The the interior stuff in like when they talk about them having
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  tiny sets. I don't necessarily get that on
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  the Aztecs or something like that, but here I'm looking and
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  I'm going what a tiny, tiny space that they're all in.
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  And yet weird, I think you're right.
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  When he's out on location, he's suddenly using wider lenses and
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  it's visually a lot more sumptuous.
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  And even seeing the location where it must have been pretty
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  shocking back then because we had, apart from not William
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  Hartnell walking to Paris in Reign of Terror, we haven't
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  actually seen any location work to this point.
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  Yeah, it's it certainly gives the whole story a real epic
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  feel. But then here you are, back on a
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  tiny little studio back lot. I love that though, you know?
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  I don't know. I just love the fact that they
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  tried to create an entire universe in the corner of Lime
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  Grove, you know? Yeah, it's, it's weird.
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  Like, I feel like by the time you get to the Traction era, the
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  shows and the producers of the show are very aware of the
• 16:15
  show's limitations. But in the Hartnell era, and I
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  think this is one of the things that draws me to it, they go, it
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  doesn't matter that we haven't got any money.
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  We are going to go wherever we want in time and space and
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  nothing's going to stop us. So even if it does look a bit
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  shoddy by modern standards, it's the the ambition is just
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  phenomenal. And you get to a point in like
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  Season 5 where they hit a formula like, we know how to
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  make this look kind of expensive because we'll have one thing to
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  say, but it's suddenly a bit creatively bankrupt.
• 16:43
  Whereas here, yeah, of course we're going to go to an alien
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  planet with Wasps and like, why can't we do that?
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  And we're going to show outside studios.
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  Yeah, we're going to show a London completely destroyed
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  originally Terry Nation in an earlier draft of this, Terry
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  Nation was aware of the budget limitations.
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  And he was like, they're going to come out.
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  It's going to be really misty. They're going to trip over a
• 17:05
  dead body. And.
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  But I thought somewhere, somehow, someone went, no,
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  that's going bigger. And so you get all, you get
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  this, this big sequence of someone throwing themselves in a
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  river. And I think they're sort of.
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  Season 2 is like, get big or get out.
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  Yeah. You start off with Planet of
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  Giants, and everything's big in that.
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  But then you've got like, you know, something like the web
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  planet, which is a big, ambitious story.
• 17:29
  Yeah. The chase, Well, we're not just
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  have a chase, you know, for a town we're going to go for all
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  the time and space, you know, it's always like, they know
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  they're popular. They could just do anything, you
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  know? Yeah.
• 17:38
  The Nation's Brief was basically do the Daleks, but bigger and
• 17:42
  better. And I mean, that's what they do.
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  I I always felt that I could get into that TARDIS.
• 17:51
  Slip underneath that, I've got a big lad, you know, So I don't
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  get honestly, I these, these regulars like William Hartnell,
• 18:03
  William Russell, Jacqueline Hill, I'm telling you that they
• 18:06
  could sell anything. Oh.
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  Absolutely. They're just, it doesn't matter
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  how ridiculous a situation they're in, like they just, you
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  just believe them. You believe that they believe
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  they're in the far future or in the past.
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  And it doesn't matter how much the stuff, ridiculous stuff is
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  around them. And when William Hart will make
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  some of his occasional fluffs, the actors around him, they know
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  him so well that they they make those fluffs believable as well.
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  Do you? Know what my favorite 1 is?
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  This shows you the level of geekery here.
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  You know, like my favorite William Hartnell line fluff is
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  when he's in the Space Museum and like which direction
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  doctrine and he goes and William Russell jumps in.
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  He goes straight ahead. Yes, really good boy.
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  Yes, straight ahead and turn to the right, you know.
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  But but that's the, you know, they've all come from theatre
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  and stuff like that. And television is still made
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  like a play. So that's what you do.
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  If you're an actor in a television, in a play, and
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  someone drives you, you can't have helped them along because
• 19:05
  you have to, because you've got to get through it.
• 19:07
  And they've really jailed at this, haven't they?
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  I remember I did when I did the sensorise, I was like at that
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  point I can't have thought like this ensemble has come together
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  and they're just perfectly natural with each other now.
• 19:19
  Which is why I'm sure William Hartner was as livid as he was
• 19:22
  in this and in the Chase when and the regular started
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  deserting the show left, right and centre.
• 19:27
  Of course, yeah, I, it's interesting that the story where
• 19:30
  they probably become a unit is Marco Polo, which is obviously
• 19:36
  missing from the archives. And I think it'd be.
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  And I think that's not just as cast members but as characters
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  too. Like it's written in that
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  respect because they spend, it's months and months they spend in
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  Marco Polo, I think. Or so it's a shame that we're
• 19:49
  kind of missing that link from this season, from this early
• 19:53
  season or the first season. Why those teddy snaps are
• 19:56
  enticing Marco Polo? I mean, there's some money on
• 19:59
  the screen in that, I'm telling you.
• 20:02
  But David Whittaker, I think. It doesn't get spoken about
• 20:05
  enough in terms of the scripts he didn't write, because I, I
• 20:11
  think it's Richard Martin that said, you know, Terry Nation
• 20:14
  wrote some pretty basic scripts and his ideas were there.
• 20:19
  And then David Whitaker added a lot of the substance and the
• 20:21
  character work. And there's definite sort of
• 20:24
  character, we call them character arcs now, character
• 20:28
  journeys, let's say throughout series one and two.
• 20:31
  And I think a lot of that is Whitaker.
• 20:33
  It is 100% and there's there's a lot of what he wrote a lot of
• 20:37
  those Dalek comics as well. And I'm apparently he wrote the
• 20:41
  the movies as well. I think he or at least did a
• 20:45
  pass on the movies, if I'm remembering correctly.
• 20:48
  So he he shapes all of the sort of classic kind of the first
• 20:54
  season, all the things we think of as like, oh, Terry Nation did
• 20:58
  that or so and so did that. He is, he's the Terrence Dicks
• 21:00
  of his day. You know, like, we'll never know
• 21:02
  how much of the stuff he rewrote, but he was rewriting it
• 21:05
  all and making it a coherent TV show.
• 21:08
  And, you know, I do think that the story is obviously a lot
• 21:14
  tighter because it's 90 minutes or that's not even 90 minutes
• 21:17
  the movie, is it? I think it's. 87 or something
• 21:21
  like that. And so clearly you can fit this
• 21:23
  narrative into an 87 minute movie and not really lose much.
• 21:28
  But what you do lose is a lot of this very early atmosphere.
• 21:32
  And this is what Terry Nation does brilliantly.
• 21:35
  I think Terry Nation Part 1 is is usually where his strengths
• 21:40
  are. Terry Nation Part 4 or 6 is
• 21:43
  usually, you know, somewhere in the gutter, but.
• 21:47
  When you've just got people exploring the world, I'm
• 21:49
  thinking of that first episode, The Daleks and here as well,
• 21:51
  it's it's beat for beat. It's almost the same thing.
• 21:54
  They're exploring somewhere that is unknown to them.
• 21:59
  But you get, I mean, we've just seen a load of lovely location
• 22:03
  footage, which I think, you know, helps us get out of the
• 22:05
  studio even more like that in The Daleks.
• 22:08
  Obviously you've got the whole Petrified Forest thing.
• 22:11
  But also, again, we're talking about of these guys being
• 22:15
  settled into the roles. So I think we just missed that
• 22:17
  lovely line where Hartnell goes, I'm not a half wit which is.
• 22:21
  Fantastic. And his famous jolly good smack
• 22:24
  bottom which was ad libbed by him.
• 22:25
  It was not in the script. I felt like the emphasis was all
• 22:29
  wrong though when they redid that in twice upon a time.
• 22:33
  Yeah, I mean. When people when they
• 22:35
  reinterpret Hartnell, they forget how extremely charming
• 22:40
  and funny he could be, and they're just making this
• 22:42
  terrible grump. Yeah, it's, it's interesting.
• 22:45
  But having said that, my girlfriend loves the the 1st
• 22:50
  Doctor as played by David Bradley.
• 22:52
  She's not like a huge Doctor Who fan or anything, but her
• 22:55
  favorite characters from the new series are the 1st Doctor,
• 22:58
  played by David Bradley and Jackie Tyler.
• 23:02
  And Jackie said, oh sure, which shows great taste if you ask.
• 23:05
  Exactly. And so she said to me, could you
• 23:08
  show me an episode of like the original actor?
• 23:12
  I just want to see if it's the same and she was like show me
• 23:15
  the first one with the Daleks in.
• 23:16
  So we we didn't watch the whole story.
• 23:18
  Watched episode 2. Complete bloody asshole in that.
• 23:20
  Yeah, but she but she was like, oh, it's 100%.
• 23:23
  The same person isn't 100%. Should have shown her the web
• 23:27
  planet episode. He's.
• 23:29
  Giggling like a loony. Throughout.
• 23:32
  Yeah, no, she, she probably would have left me.
• 23:35
  Yeah. It's it's interesting that
• 23:38
  actually that Bradley version of the Doctor and Twice Upon a Time
• 23:41
  that people don't like is is actually more recognisable as
• 23:46
  the first Doctor to someone who doesn't really like Doctor Who
• 23:49
  or doesn't or isn't a fan. That's fair though, I think.
• 23:51
  Yeah. So it's sort of a caricature in
• 23:54
  a way. And I find it the same with the
• 23:56
  Richard Handel version, who I quite like as well, but he he
• 24:02
  sort of gnashes his teeth far more than Harnell.
• 24:04
  And although, you know, Cheeger needs a good telling off.
• 24:07
  So I don't complain too much, but there's definitely like an
• 24:11
  emphasis shift. I think it's after this story.
• 24:14
  I think he's still with that kind of like very commanded,
• 24:17
  very stern William Hartnell for a lot of this story.
• 24:19
  And he kind of has to be because it's all, you know, you poor
• 24:23
  pathetic creatures, you know, and then taking on the duck.
• 24:25
  But then Vicky comes along and it just softens him in such a an
• 24:29
  amazing way. Well.
• 24:32
  Yeah, he gets the granddaughter who'd always wanted and sort of
• 24:34
  that annoying carrots carting around time and space for the
• 24:37
  whole time. I'd be like that if I had to.
• 24:39
  Was locked in time and space with Susan.
• 24:42
  It's just miserable. No, I'm being too harsh.
• 24:45
  It's lovely, Seriously. You were talking about the Reign
• 24:47
  of Terror. She's unbearable in that.
• 24:48
  Isn't she? Oh my God, she's in that.
• 24:50
  Cell. Yeah, you're like, you're kind
• 24:52
  of hoping that she doesn't pull through and just dies there,
• 24:56
  like dysentery or something like that.
• 24:57
  A violent man. I just wish God saves, you know,
• 25:02
  or you know when they go off in the car to the guillotine, like,
• 25:04
  you know. Yeah, just do it.
• 25:06
  Do it first, yeah. Or we get we're just about to
• 25:09
  get a robo man in a box who tips the box over himself there
• 25:12
  because it didn't fall. Oh, that's right, another
• 25:18
  director would go again don't know, but I think they what
• 25:20
  could they do at the time 3 cups or something It was.
• 25:22
  Yeah, I think he, I just don't think he knows how to work a
• 25:26
  studio at all. I mean, being a director in a
• 25:29
  studio is a very different thing to being a film director.
• 25:32
  You know, it's more a technical job of like mixing vision,
• 25:36
  mixing and getting the cameras in the right place.
• 25:38
  We're actually, and I think he struggles to do that and kind of
• 25:42
  get the decent shots that I think he would he would hope to
• 25:45
  get. So I'm always a little bit
• 25:47
  disappointed with his work. Interesting here is I think
• 25:52
  Martin's a better filmic director and Terry Nation is
• 25:54
  definitely a filmic writer. And in the 70s when he chips off
• 25:57
  to, you know, all those spy shows and he's like, he's in his
• 26:00
  element. He can recycle like plot after
• 26:02
  plot. It's just loads of people going
• 26:03
  around with car chases and guns and you know, he hasn't got a
• 26:06
  thing to do much about a plot. Well, Nation was already doing
• 26:11
  the Saints at this point, and Doctor Who was his weekend work,
• 26:15
  so he'd write the Saints Monday to Friday and then he'd write.
• 26:18
  Doctors like it sometimes. Each script took him 8 hours to
• 26:24
  write, which is. Incredible.
• 26:27
  I always tell that story that Donald Tosh tells about, you
• 26:30
  know, where's the scripts for Dalek's Dalek Master plan?
• 26:32
  And he turns up with this tiny envelope, like, there's the
• 26:35
  synopsis from 1:00 to 6:00. Fill them out.
• 26:38
  I'm off to America to sell the Daleks.
• 26:41
  I do want, like Donald Tosh does have a reputation for
• 26:45
  embellishment, shall we say though so, but never let the
• 26:47
  truth. Get Have you been to a Doctor
• 26:49
  Who convention? I mean, I've heard some
• 26:50
  embellishment. He lets you know, he always
• 26:54
  calls him out on it. Is that true?
• 26:56
  Are you sure? He's such a man of integrity.
• 26:59
  He was not going to bullshit you.
• 27:01
  You know, it's interesting that you every now and then you'll
• 27:07
  see footage from a convention from like those these 80s and
• 27:11
  you'll hear the stories that you hear now, but they're because
• 27:15
  they don't quite get a laugh or a rise like they're, they're
• 27:18
  more just normal. And then over time, they've just
• 27:22
  been embellished and embellished and embellished in order to
• 27:24
  become that classic convention anecdote.
• 27:27
  And I turned around and the entire world was wearing eye.
• 27:30
  Patches, you know. That was great.
• 27:33
  I love that when they go through that door there and then of
• 27:37
  course there's definitely, there's like an atmosphere of
• 27:40
  doom to this, isn't there? There is palpable atmosphere to
• 27:44
  this first episode. There is, and the guy who falls
• 27:47
  through the door is Peter Diamond, who was also the robot
• 27:51
  man who died at the beginning. So he's been in this episode
• 27:53
  twice already. Is he?
• 27:54
  In the room as well. Possibly he was always getting
• 27:57
  killed or stabbed, but there we go this.
• 27:59
  Stuff this stuff now with the the tracking shot across with
• 28:02
  Barbara running away through the sort of devastating landscape is
• 28:06
  fantastic. Yeah, it looks like proper.
• 28:10
  It looks like a proper. Film.
• 28:11
  It looks like a movie, isn't it? Yeah.
• 28:13
  Like, and it's a great little location.
• 28:15
  I believe it was the Wood Lane underground station, like the
• 28:19
  exterior of that they had like an abandoned tube near there.
• 28:23
  So it's I guess those are like where the the trains were kept
• 28:26
  or something. But it's it all looks really
• 28:29
  good and I didn't realize until I watched this today.
• 28:32
  All of that location footage, it's just got music on it, but
• 28:35
  there's no audio. So I'm not sure whether they
• 28:38
  they actually recorded audio for this and whether it's all done
• 28:40
  silent. No, OK, you can't really tell,
• 28:42
  can you? No.
• 28:44
  I think that the music is quite a fact.
• 28:45
  There's a lot of drums going on in this, isn't there?
• 28:47
  And yeah, and of militaristic beats.
• 28:51
  Yeah, and then weird little sort of Night of the Living Dead sort
• 28:54
  of organ synthy sounds as well. Yeah, very sort of discordant,
• 28:58
  isn't it? Yeah.
• 28:59
  Yeah, it's really like off putting and odd.
• 29:02
  It comes to Dalek Saucer. You ever seen Button Moon?
• 29:07
  Yes, yes, I have. It looks like the saucer that
• 29:10
  goes up to button Moon doesn't. It now.
• 29:12
  Do you know why it's so wobbly? Obviously it's a shit effect,
• 29:17
  but. I was drunk holding the string.
• 29:19
  Well, it's. They try to do the strings from
• 29:22
  the bottom rather than the top because they're like.
• 29:25
  Your eye automatically looks for the strings at the top, but so
• 29:30
  they they were like we're doing them sort of on rod type things
• 29:33
  at the bottom, but it's even harder to control so it it looks
• 29:36
  shitter when the strings aren't actually where they're supposed
• 29:39
  to be. Honestly, delight is the sort of
• 29:41
  trivia that gets me hard thank. You very much.
• 29:44
  And that's what I'm here for. That.
• 29:46
  That source for in 2150. AD Oh, it's gorgeous.
• 29:49
  Been in discs? Yeah.
• 29:52
  Is there a model of that out? There isn't, I think because of
• 29:56
  who owns the rights to those films.
• 29:58
  There's just no merch associated with them, which is a shame
• 30:01
  because you, you want a whole army of those Daleks.
• 30:04
  You give me a Cushing pic of action figure.
• 30:07
  Give me a model of that I'm. Still waiting for a massive
• 30:10
  zombie, you know. It's only a matter of time.
• 30:15
  Only a matter of time. Terry Nation knows how to drop
• 30:20
  you into a scenario dramatically.
• 30:23
  I think he does it here. He does it in Dalek's Master
• 30:26
  plan. He does it in stories like
• 30:28
  Android Invasion, like he knows where to put you in the
• 30:31
  narrative. And I love how he builds up his
• 30:34
  episodes of episode ones with lots of clues.
• 30:37
  So you've got to try and sort of build a picture together.
• 30:40
  And then usually the answer is all the Daleks are here.
• 30:43
  I. Get the end of Episode 1.
• 30:44
  Yeah, they're always a great setup.
• 30:47
  And I think I hate the kind of thing that everybody is like our
• 30:51
  Terry Nation is a bit of a hack. He's not a bit of a hack.
• 30:53
  He was a very busy man who sometimes would require a good
• 30:57
  script editor to give his his scripts a Polish.
• 31:00
  But here and the first Dalek story and indeed the Chase, I
• 31:04
  just think, you know, they're, they're quite tight stories and.
• 31:08
  I mean the chase episode 1 you could probably lose.
• 31:10
  They just sit around watching TV episode 1.
• 31:13
  I mean, that's the whole basis of this podcast though, right?
• 31:15
  So you know. Well exactly.
• 31:17
  I built my entire podcast on the Chase episode 1.
• 31:21
  I love that story of Hancock saying to Terry, how dare they
• 31:25
  ask you to write children's television.
• 31:27
  What a nerve. And then ten years like we
• 31:29
  sipping champagne and Hancock's careers going down the pan
• 31:32
  going, you're right, Tony, how you doing?
• 31:35
  Yeah, yeah, it's he's and I like his other work I've seen.
• 31:39
  Do you know what I'd be really interested in is actually seeing
• 31:42
  some of Britch and Martin's other work, maybe later in his
• 31:45
  career. Work.
• 31:47
  Yeah, I believe so, because I just wonder whether if he, if
• 31:52
  he's say, made the transition into film or made the at least
• 31:56
  working on TV shows that were all shot in film, and maybe I'd
• 32:00
  love to see whether he can actually pull off a a decent
• 32:03
  episode of something somewhere. Do you?
• 32:05
  Know, like on the documentary, Martin talks a lot about, you
• 32:08
  know, oh, I had all these visions of what I wanted to do
• 32:10
  with doctor and I didn't have the time and I didn't have the
• 32:12
  money. Now to a point, I think that's
• 32:15
  true because the budget was small one the time, you know,
• 32:17
  was precious. But then you watch The Chase,
• 32:21
  which I do love, but for all the wrong reasons.
• 32:24
  Then you watch the dialect's master plan, which is
• 32:26
  essentially the same story but executed to the fucking hilt,
• 32:31
  and I'm like, well, he had the same time and he had the same
• 32:34
  money. I think he might have had a
• 32:35
  little less money on the dialect's master.
• 32:37
  Plan. Quite possibly.
• 32:38
  And is executed with so much more panache.
• 32:41
  I do think there's certainly an element of the skill of the
• 32:43
  director as well. Yeah, no, I agree.
• 32:46
  I agree. And I think it's a shame that I
• 32:50
  don't know, like, I just don't think he's a good studio
• 32:52
  director and I don't think he was able to control the floor in
• 32:55
  a way he wanted to. And it's his stories that I
• 32:58
  think you see a lot of the the more sort of dodgy cliches of
• 33:02
  Doctor Who acted out of like cameras bumping into things and
• 33:05
  boom mics in shot. And in fact this version of
• 33:08
  watching on DVD. And I think it's the same for
• 33:09
  the Blu-ray. They have digitally painted out
• 33:14
  a few boom mics and stuff like that.
• 33:18
  And I believe there's also a scene somewhere in here that was
• 33:21
  shot in studio for day. It was supposed to be at night
• 33:24
  time, but it was shot as daytime by mistake.
• 33:28
  And they've darkened that scene a bit further down the line, but
• 33:31
  I couldn't tell you which one it is.
• 33:33
  But it's one of the few Doctor Who stories that we don't have
• 33:36
  the original edit by the choice of the Restoration team.
• 33:40
  That's a look at the lovely shot there, the high angle shot of
• 33:43
  the road men walking. You see, this stuff is really
• 33:46
  great. And again, we're in Doctor Who
• 33:47
  the movie all of a sudden. I don't know, I think that's
• 33:49
  some Catherine's docs or. Something like that, yeah.
• 33:53
  But it's it looks brilliant. But also sometimes he makes very
• 33:56
  bizarre creative choices as well.
• 33:59
  Like I think the Roman men are a great idea.
• 34:01
  And when they start talking and it's that sort of weird slurred
• 34:07
  and it like, is the idea of like a sort of dehumanised person.
• 34:11
  Yeah, OK, it works. That's a bit, isn't it?
• 34:14
  Like it's a bit embarrassing. It is it's also it makes me I do
• 34:18
  think there's some great stuff you could do with the robo men
• 34:22
  and indeed they do do it in the Gaelic Empire series for big
• 34:26
  finish. But I do think here like you're
• 34:29
  like, how are they stopping anything?
• 34:31
  They all move really slowly and all they've got is whips.
• 34:35
  It's like, you know, I mean, if you if you like being whipped,
• 34:39
  great, you'll have a lovely time.
• 34:40
  But I like, I feel like anybody could outrun one of one of the
• 34:45
  robo men and they're not that much of A threat, which is a
• 34:48
  shame. Because I'm not sure they get it
• 34:49
  much better in the movie either, with that comedy sequence of
• 34:53
  them all eating. I don't know what they're
• 34:56
  eating. Little sugar sweets.
• 34:58
  Yeah, the sort of sweets my nan used to buy me that were just
• 35:01
  pure, pure weird. Like those rainbow drops, you
• 35:05
  know? That's the one, yeah.
• 35:07
  Called Bernard Cribbins trying to do the synchronized eating.
• 35:09
  It's all we are heading up now to one of the, I think, one of
• 35:16
  the most memorable cliffhangers. Yeah, it's it's, I mean, it's
• 35:20
  one of those ones that's gone into like the public conscious
• 35:24
  about Doctor Who as well in terms of it's one of those
• 35:27
  classic clips that was always used on clip shows in the 80s
• 35:29
  and 90s. It's it's it's great fun.
• 35:32
  And there we go. This this first bit is the is a
• 35:34
  model and then it cuts. So as it rises from the water,
• 35:39
  that's a model. And then when you go into the
• 35:41
  wide shot, all of a sudden you're you're dealing with the
• 35:45
  an actual Dalek on location. The kids must be like they've
• 35:47
  got a bloody nerve. They've been promising in the
• 35:49
  Traders. The Daleks.
• 35:50
  Well, where the hell are the Daleks?
• 35:52
  Well, what a great cap for the episode I.
• 35:54
  Know it's fantastic, isn't it? Is.
• 35:56
  It a different colour to the model because it yeah it looks
• 36:00
  very different. It's and I think it maybe they
• 36:03
  were losing light. I know they had a lot of trouble
• 36:05
  pushing the Dalek out of out of the water because it they
• 36:09
  couldn't move on the the surface.
• 36:12
  But overall, how would you write that as an opener?
• 36:14
  I think it's a Corker of an opener, despite the issues with
• 36:18
  the direction. I think it's a belter.
• 36:21
  Well, look, I'm going to do this at the end of each episode or
• 36:25
  I'm going to hit you because we've, I took to Twitter and
• 36:28
  asked if anybody had some comments or questions for you
• 36:31
  about the Dalek invasion of Earth.
• 36:33
  And we have a deluge of questions and there's more
• 36:36
  coming in. This is very exciting.
• 36:40
  Well, I don't know. We haven't heard them yet.
• 36:42
  So generally speaking, the bunch that listen to this podcast are,
• 36:46
  you know, erudite, Wissy charming.
• 36:50
  Let's find out. OK.
• 36:51
  You ready? Yeah.
• 36:53
  So Jim Allenby, the lovely Jim Allenby says, is there scope for
• 36:57
  a spin off series set during the years that the Daleks occupied
• 37:00
  the Earth? Oh absolutely.
• 37:02
  I would love to see the Rebels versus the Daleks and just how
• 37:06
  desperate things could get. You could do a really sort of
• 37:09
  gritty drama about that. I'm there for it.
• 37:12
  Sign me up. Get Disney on the phone.
• 37:15
  Or, and now we've just mentioned it, of course, Big Finished spin
• 37:18
  off. It will be out next week.
• 37:21
  Jason Thompson, I think he's just put a comment.
• 37:23
  He says this is a pretty bleak tale for Doctor Who.
• 37:26
  Certainly the grimmest tale it's told so far.
• 37:29
  I'd agree with that. Yeah.
• 37:30
  It's basically a war story about Nazi occupation.
• 37:34
  The Daleks work better on location than ever here.
• 37:36
  Richard Martin may not get the limitations of studio direction,
• 37:40
  but his location work is superb. Oh yeah, agree, agree.
• 37:44
  We didn't even need to do the podcast.
• 37:45
  We could have just read that comment basically.
• 37:47
  Said. Over the left I saw.
• 37:48
  One then. OK, I'll do two more than Andy
• 37:53
  Parkinson asks. Which version did you see first,
• 37:56
  the TV or the movie? The movie.
• 37:59
  I saw the movie a long time before I saw the TV version.
• 38:03
  In fact, when I first learned about Doctor Who missing
• 38:06
  episodes, I thought this was missing.
• 38:08
  So I just never even looked for the the the the VHS as it was
• 38:13
  back then of this story. So I know the movie version much
• 38:16
  better than I know this version. We.
• 38:18
  Had the movie on Avhs, right? Yeah, I saw the movie first as
• 38:22
  well. My mum taped it on Avhs and
• 38:24
  every she but she kept it hidden away.
• 38:26
  And then when it was like a bank holiday and it was pissing with
• 38:29
  rain and I'd be whinging and I couldn't go out, she'd she'd
• 38:31
  pull out Dalek as well, the two movies and they come and say, I
• 38:35
  know the dialogue in those movies inside out and back to
• 38:39
  front. Whereas this I've got I've got a
• 38:41
  lot watching it new every time. Yeah, yeah, I know.
• 38:44
  Every time I'm watching this, even this time around, I'm like,
• 38:47
  oh, this feels slightly unfamiliar in a way that the the
• 38:50
  film just doesn't. Well he actually went on to ask
• 38:53
  does that? Does the order you watch these
• 38:56
  in alter your view? He saw the movie 1st and
• 38:59
  although it might be blasphemous to say, and we agree with this,
• 39:03
  I think I prefer the movie version.
• 39:06
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. OK, well here's the question
• 39:09
  then, from John Hall, who's being a collude, facetious Is
• 39:14
  this the only Doctor Who story that has a main cast member of
• 39:17
  Are You being served in It? Yes.
• 39:24
  I believe Mrs. Slofen's pussy might be in Planet of.
• 39:27
  Giants, you know. Yeah.
• 39:31
  No, I think apart from apart from the pussy, I think that's
• 39:34
  it, yeah. I think it is.
• 39:35
  I think it is. Well, I'll say some more
• 39:37
  questions for episodes 2:00 to 6:00.
• 39:40
  Exciting stuff. And if you hold my hand, let's
• 39:44
  skip into Episode 2. I shall do.
• 39:47
  Let's do it. I'll cut it there.
• 39:50
  Lovely stuff. Lovely.
• 39:52
  Good. Grief.
• 39:53
  You make this effortless. Usually I find I've got to drive
• 39:56
  it a bit when someone's on this for the first time.
• 39:58
  Oh, it's a. Pleasure.
• 40:00
  Yeah, well, it's. I've listened to quite a few of
• 40:03
  these, so I feel like I know you even though we've never met
• 40:05
  before. There we go, Jesus.
• 40:06
  Christ, a lot of people say. Yeah, I've won one commentary
• 40:09
  with you and I feel like I've known you for a lifetime.
• 40:11
  I think it might be an instant A.
• 40:47
  Hamster with a grumpy pen knife will do it quicker.
• 40:52
  Do what? Hello and welcome back to the
• 40:56
  Doctor Who Podcast. A Hamster with a Blunt Pen
• 40:58
  Knife. A commentary podcast with me,
• 41:01
  Dylan Rees. Oh, and me, Joe, Hello.
• 41:06
  There we go. I just, I went a little bit
• 41:08
  rogue there, but that's what you get if you get me to intro the
• 41:10
  podcast. I mean, you have to say you're
• 41:12
  right. People just expect me to be
• 41:13
  here. True, very true.
• 41:17
  So what are we watching today? No, we're going to watch the
• 41:21
  second episode of The Daleks Invasion of Earth, which is
• 41:24
  confusingly called The Daleks. But of course, we all know the
• 41:28
  Daleks isn't actually called the Daleks.
• 41:30
  But who knows? It'll always be the Daleks to
• 41:31
  me. Isn't there an episode of The
• 41:33
  Daleks called The Rescue? Yes, it's, it's all, it's all
• 41:37
  very convoluted, isn't? There an episode of the Trace
• 41:39
  called Dimensions in Time. There's an episode of this
• 41:43
  that's actually called The 10th Planet Part 4.
• 41:45
  No, that's not true. Oh man, that would be brilliant.
• 41:52
  Jesus, that was a very laughing, wouldn't he?
• 41:56
  Well, look, let's just go straight in, shall we all?
• 41:59
  Right. Yeah, let's do it.
• 42:00
  Absolutely. I'm ready for this and you intro
• 42:03
  to our counters in in 321. Let's go.
• 42:10
  And finally, we're going to see some Dalek action.
• 42:12
  And as I've already discussed, I'm sure it's going to be
• 42:15
  extremely well realized. It's going to be better than the
• 42:20
  movie. That's what I've heard.
• 42:22
  It's going to be epic stuff. So this was the first episode of
• 42:26
  Doctor Who to ever enter the top 10 of viewing figures.
• 42:31
  I think it was about 12 million people or something watched it.
• 42:33
  This is the first time it's ever charted.
• 42:36
  So I've been, I've been listening to Toby Haydo's
• 42:39
  wonderful Too Much Information. Oh, it's more wonderful, yeah.
• 42:43
  I mean Jesus Christ. So I listen to his and then I
• 42:45
  start putting mine together and go to here.
• 42:48
  I'm still in the nursery. Sometimes He graces me with his
• 42:52
  presence on this, you know, I'm very honoured.
• 42:55
  You're a lucky man. And like, there's lots of sort
• 43:00
  of conversation notes, early episodes about Doctor Who.
• 43:02
  Well, we're only going to give it 12.
• 43:03
  We're only going to give it, you know, a run of 10 episodes or 8
• 43:07
  episodes or something. Like honest to God, those people
• 43:10
  that were making those choices must be eating humble pie at
• 43:12
  this point. Yeah, I mean, and this is
• 43:17
  technically Doctor Who's 1st anniversary.
• 43:19
  So this the episode 1 I think was broadcast.
• 43:22
  It was around November. I want to say it was November
• 43:25
  21st actually. So we're worried.
• 43:27
  I mean, obviously you wouldn't celebrate it, but it's quite
• 43:29
  apartment that you know, it's it's back with this.
• 43:33
  It's in the zeitgeist now, isn't it?
• 43:35
  You know, And this season is just on a run of incredible
• 43:38
  viewing figures. Yeah, it is.
• 43:40
  And they just, I mean, you're doing the web planet as we
• 43:44
  record this. That's where it peaks, isn't it?
• 43:46
  Yeah, I think it does for a long, long time, Like it's what,
• 43:50
  1314 million, something like that.
• 43:52
  I think that's the highest until arc in space two.
• 43:56
  Wow, got like 13.6 or something like that.
• 44:00
  Now I'm not I'm not blaming the arc, sorry, the web planet
• 44:04
  entirely, you know, for the viewing figures.
• 44:06
  Dove take, you know, heading over a Cliff like that.
• 44:09
  But boy oh boy, it was massively popular and obviously Dalek
• 44:14
  Mania was going a bit crazy because this is the first
• 44:17
  incident, obviously in Doctor Who, of a returning element.
• 44:21
  Yeah, it's it's exciting stuff. And I can just see why.
• 44:25
  You can see why kids love Daleks.
• 44:28
  And I tell you what, I've always hated the voices in this story,
• 44:31
  but they are so much more imitable that for kids than say,
• 44:36
  the Nick Briggs version. Almost not not to slight the
• 44:38
  Nick Nick Briggs version because it's great.
• 44:40
  But they're all very like we are, like you can.
• 44:44
  You can just imitate them like that.
• 44:46
  The ring modulation that they're using is barely audible I think.
• 44:49
  And I'll do it because I'm a little bit camper than you.
• 44:51
  Well, we are the masters of Earth.
• 44:56
  We. It's very camp, isn't it?
• 45:00
  We also get that very hesitant Dalek that that comes up in a
• 45:04
  bit where he's about to make a speech to everybody and he goes
• 45:06
  up to the microphone and goes. As bad as that one in the chase,
• 45:12
  you know, goes three, no, 4 minutes.
• 45:17
  You know, I mean, obviously in the back of everyone's minds,
• 45:21
  you know, after the Second World War, the most scary force to
• 45:24
  conquer the Earth is a load of camp Nazis.
• 45:29
  I think the Daleks don't become the Daleks probably until Daleks
• 45:33
  master plan slash power of the Daleks.
• 45:36
  Like I think at this point they're still in their infancy.
• 45:39
  You know, there's a moment coming up actually in a few
• 45:42
  minutes where they kill somebody and the dialect leader just goes
• 45:46
  kill him like that. I.
• 45:47
  Feel like that really scary them just saying kill him rather than
• 45:51
  exterminate. Yeah, so there's no the catch
• 45:54
  phrases aren't quite there. I believe somewhere in the story
• 45:57
  is the first exterminate. But it's, yeah, like they're not
• 46:03
  quite people. I guess even Terry Nation
• 46:06
  describes them as beings or people or something like that
• 46:10
  within the script. And it's just a bit like, oh,
• 46:12
  people, the writers and the producers haven't quite thought
• 46:15
  about what the Daleks actually are at this point.
• 46:18
  And they, they kind of change and they can become a little bit
• 46:21
  funny at times, like they do in The Chase.
• 46:24
  And even in this way, one of them chats to a mannequin
• 46:27
  briefly. Oh, that bit's agonizing.
• 46:30
  It isn't. It just so it's.
• 46:32
  And you think like you, you know, a smart director would cut
• 46:35
  away quick. But Richard Martin was there
• 46:37
  for, you know, a couple of minutes.
• 46:38
  Yeah, so the the Daleks here are they are, they feel threatening
• 46:44
  enough, but they're not for me. They're not the terrifying thing
• 46:50
  that they will become. And effectively there has to be
• 46:53
  like a page one rewrite on the Daleks, because in the Daleks,
• 46:59
  it's kind of like the end of their story, isn't it?
• 47:01
  It's like they can't leave the city for whatever.
• 47:05
  I can't remember why now they they they need the power from
• 47:08
  the full. Electricity in it.
• 47:09
  Yeah, to stay in the city and all of that.
• 47:11
  So effectively they're they are being rewritten to fit into this
• 47:14
  story. Yeah, well, this.
• 47:16
  Is a little something for that in terms of sort of being
• 47:20
  unique. But as like a force, a
• 47:23
  threatening force. Well, they've, you know, thrown
• 47:26
  plague missiles at the planet, taking over a bunch of people.
• 47:29
  Like, not many Doctor Who monsters get this far, do they?
• 47:32
  No, very true. And I think this is this is the
• 47:35
  first kind of big sci-fi story they do in terms of like we're
• 47:40
  bringing it back to earth, the threats like a a local threat.
• 47:44
  And also it's the first time the doctor I think is the hero that
• 47:48
  chooses to stay. It's like we better we better
• 47:52
  defeat them. Which before that I don't think
• 47:54
  he ever does. He's just involved in a
• 47:55
  situation that's they're trying to get out of and sometimes they
• 47:59
  defeat a baddie on the way well. It's very different from the
• 48:01
  last time he met the Daleks, and he's been a load of bullshit
• 48:04
  just because he wanted to investigate the city.
• 48:06
  Yeah. Very true, I love.
• 48:08
  There's a massive retailing of the sorry, sorry, you saying I
• 48:11
  was. Just going to say very quickly,
• 48:13
  I love the doll that's coming down this ramp throughout every
• 48:16
  episode of this. Just keep watching us.
• 48:18
  They always down so it's going shit.
• 48:26
  Oh, Marvel's speech here then, where he says, you know, oh, you
• 48:29
  poor pathetic creatures, to destroy everyone on Earth, you
• 48:32
  know, you have to destroy all living matter, and we're going
• 48:34
  to stop you and all that. This is like the first time he's
• 48:36
  really been written in this mould.
• 48:38
  Yes. And he, he is, he is very much
• 48:40
  the hero all of a sudden. And this is where the show
• 48:44
  becomes starts to become a little bit more about the
• 48:46
  Doctor. Even that first season I think
• 48:49
  is really Ian and Barbara's story of of, of them trying to
• 48:53
  get home and being whisked off, kidnapped, absolutely kidnapped
• 48:57
  and taken into time and space. But what a kidnapping game.
• 49:01
  It's, it's great. And the point where I know where
• 49:04
  they've been institutionalized was that bit in, I think it's a
• 49:07
  centralized where they start reading out the Wiki entry.
• 49:09
  Well, we've been to the Aztecs, popped off with Marco Polo, and
• 49:15
  OK, they've settled in. One thing that's really annoying
• 49:18
  about this story is I think the sets are really good and I feel
• 49:24
  that for a kind of tiny budget that and a small studio, they
• 49:30
  they it paints an impressive picture.
• 49:32
  And it's the direction that doesn't get into the detail of
• 49:36
  the set because there there was a short a minute ago where you
• 49:38
  saw the saucer that sort of painted backdrop of the houses
• 49:42
  and it felt sort of vast. But now it's all tight shot, so
• 49:46
  you're not seeing anything. Yeah, he he just doesn't know
• 49:49
  how to work the studio. And as you say, if it was
• 49:50
  Douglas Campfield or somebody else, you would you will get a
• 49:54
  very. Different.
• 49:55
  Yeah, Christopher Barry would do a great job.
• 49:57
  You can see that little cardboard Dalek in the
• 49:59
  background there. And I mean, that's kind of
• 50:01
  unavoidable. But yeah, it's all it just
• 50:04
  doesn't look. At that disco Dalek there, what
• 50:06
  colours are we? Do we know what colour that
• 50:08
  Dalek? Is, I don't know, it's stripy,
• 50:11
  but so I think by next week he's completely black, but I don't
• 50:15
  know why this was. Pride Week.
• 50:17
  That's why it's different colours this week.
• 50:20
  Of course, of course. I think there's a really savvy
• 50:23
  mood that's made in that we're doing this sort of big epic
• 50:28
  story, but there's a lot of intimate little stories going on
• 50:31
  throughout. And you've got David, you've got
• 50:33
  Jenny, you've got Dortmund, you've got Bernard Kay's
• 50:36
  character. Oh.
• 50:37
  I can't remember what it's called.
• 50:39
  That fella. That fella, yeah.
• 50:41
  But but they separate all these guest characters off or pair
• 50:45
  them off with one of the regulars.
• 50:47
  So there's all of these different subplots going on and
• 50:49
  we're learning a lot about the characters.
• 50:51
  There is an intimacy to this. It's telling, like the big
• 50:55
  invasion. I think the top the six episode
• 50:59
  length allows for those little stories to happen.
• 51:02
  I love the Jodie Witte career and you won't hear me slag it
• 51:05
  off very much at all. But I think sometimes one of the
• 51:08
  criticisms that can be level is sometimes you've got 4
• 51:10
  companions delivering 1 companions line and it needs
• 51:14
  more of like let's separate them all off and do do different
• 51:17
  things. But Dylan?
• 51:19
  I love the Jodie Witte career as well.
• 51:21
  Good, good. It's wonderful.
• 51:22
  On this thing and do one of those please.
• 51:24
  Oh absolutely 100%. I like the very a few episodes
• 51:27
  from that run that I haven't revisited and loved and loved
• 51:31
  again. In the middle of this Dalek
• 51:32
  Invasion of Earth commentary, I'm going to ask you to do my
• 51:35
  personal favorite of the entire era, because no one's chosen it
• 51:38
  yet, and a lot of a few of those ones have gone Demons of the
• 51:41
  Punjab. I OK, wonderful.
• 51:43
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'll be there.
• 51:45
  It's a lovely story. Very very subtle.
• 51:50
  I actually this. Is I'm.
• 51:51
  Going to name drop here. I went to Vinay Patel's house
• 51:54
  the other day. Yeah, but did you see him again?
• 51:57
  Please tell him two things. One, he's extremely handsome.
• 52:00
  And here's my number. He.
• 52:01
  Is a very handsome man. Both of his episodes are
• 52:04
  stunningly good. Yeah, they are, They are He's
• 52:07
  and he seems like a lovely chap. May I ask why you went to Vinay
• 52:10
  Patel's house the other day? It was a work related visit.
• 52:15
  I work in film and television and I can't really say much
• 52:18
  about the project. It's not Doctor Who.
• 52:20
  I'm not doing Doctor Who unfortunately.
• 52:21
  But yes, we it was, it was work related.
• 52:25
  We were there for about an hour and very nice he was too.
• 52:28
  Well, he's extremely talented. In fact, I can make a parallel
• 52:31
  between this and Demos on the Punjab, because that also tells
• 52:34
  a very epic story in an extremely intimate way as well.
• 52:38
  Yes, it does. It does, possibly slightly more
• 52:40
  successfully than. Oh, visually it's just
• 52:46
  beautiful. It is it's it's it's a beautiful
• 52:49
  story. Well, yeah, I'll definitely.
• 52:50
  You know you don't get all the damn dare excitement in demons
• 52:52
  on the punch up. You don't.
• 52:55
  I always think about that first Jodie Whittaker series that it's
• 52:59
  episodes like that. It's suddenly pitched for Sunday
• 53:02
  night. It's not a Saturday night
• 53:03
  adventure series anymore. It's like, no, this is Doctor
• 53:06
  Who for a Sunday night. So it's going to be slightly.
• 53:09
  Do you not think Demons absolutely exemplifies that?
• 53:12
  Yeah, 100%, sort of. Very polished historical drama.
• 53:16
  Yeah, with a few aliens thrown in because it is Doctor Who.
• 53:19
  But yeah, it's, it's, it's wonderful.
• 53:22
  Definitely stuff like it takes you away as well, which is sort
• 53:24
  of, that's a rebro, isn't it? Yeah.
• 53:27
  I love It Takes You Away that I've seen I've that's one of the
• 53:31
  episodes I've rewatched the most, I think.
• 53:32
  I've not done that one either. You know, maybe we'll do a
• 53:34
  double bill. Perfect on there.
• 53:37
  We'll, we'll do the whole season.
• 53:39
  Hello there. Now, oh, so there's a hot
• 53:42
  sequence here in a minute here where William Hardwell is going
• 53:45
  to escape from this cell and we go through this whole long teeth
• 53:48
  thing with the ring, don't we? And packets and.
• 53:51
  Yeah, our Terry Nation loves the magnets.
• 53:54
  But again, I think it's that thing of it's a scientific
• 53:58
  process that kids can understand and it's still that educational
• 54:02
  remit of the show. So I I kind of see why he throws
• 54:06
  in static electricity and magnets and things like that,
• 54:09
  because it is, that's what it's easy for a kid to get in a way
• 54:12
  that a long load of techno Babble necessarily wouldn't be.
• 54:17
  I just think like you're talking about kids there.
• 54:19
  I think this is. So it might be such an obvious
• 54:23
  idea, The Dalek invasion of Earth.
• 54:24
  Yeah, looking back now, but the Daleks were massively popular in
• 54:29
  that first story. What is the most exciting thing
• 54:32
  you can do with them of? Course, bring them to Earth.
• 54:36
  It's just brilliant, I think. No wonder those viewing figures
• 54:39
  shot up. I bet those Dalek suits were in
• 54:41
  hot demand. What'd you say?
• 54:42
  This one out in November? Yeah, yeah, of course.
• 54:45
  Those fabulous PV suits, you know?
• 54:47
  Yeah. Yeah, I'd like to get one myself
• 54:50
  one day. They're a bit pricey.
• 54:53
  I'm I'm trying to at some point I'm going to buy a full size
• 54:56
  Dalek up and I won up for years and.
• 55:00
  I mean this in a completely non threatening way.
• 55:03
  Yeah, but do you mind if I play with your Dalek?
• 55:07
  Absolutely come over and play with my Dalek anytime.
• 55:12
  One of my friend has got one of the Day of the Daleks, the gold
• 55:17
  1 and it's just beautiful. I'd like one of the bronze ones
• 55:21
  for the new series. I think I actually want a movie
• 55:24
  1. Oh yes, a bit expensive.
• 55:27
  Though, well, the the movie ones and the new series ones are the
• 55:30
  most expensive you can get. There you go, whizzing down.
• 55:33
  They're whizzing down the ramp here.
• 55:34
  And there's that shot I was telling you about there.
• 55:36
  Look, the the camera is very high in the studio, because
• 55:40
  apparently they were pretty, sort of.
• 55:41
  They were a bit like Daleks, those cameras, weren't they?
• 55:43
  A bit, yeah. I mean look at the depth there,
• 55:46
  can you see the row of houses? Yeah, no, it looks.
• 55:49
  Really. Really.
• 55:50
  And then, and then you're on the same set a few minutes earlier
• 55:53
  and a few minutes later and it looks like they're shooting it
• 55:55
  in a cupboard. It's like.
• 55:57
  They were. What are you talking about?
• 56:00
  You just saw a. Woman just come into shop there
• 56:02
  and get, like, battered. Yeah, it's yeah.
• 56:05
  It's. Pretty brute stuff.
• 56:09
  I love this whole little explanation of the Daleks
• 56:12
  invasion. And they cut between them on the
• 56:15
  saucer. There's that little flashback.
• 56:17
  And then there's also the stuff with Susan and Barbara learning
• 56:20
  about it. Like, again, it's really, well,
• 56:22
  sort of written by Terry Nation. You know, I've got to get this
• 56:24
  exposition here, but I don't want to just be focused on one
• 56:28
  person for the whole time. There are absolutely ways to
• 56:32
  deliver exposition, aren't there?
• 56:34
  And some writers have it and some writers don't.
• 56:36
  Glenn McCoy, I'm being rude. Do you know?
• 56:41
  I you know, the dialect scheme here is to pilot the planet.
• 56:45
  Now, two other writers, Nicholas Briggs and Rusty Davies, have
• 56:50
  also nabbed this idea and both refer to this.
• 56:56
  So into the Death in Big Finishes run, Nick Briggs says
• 57:01
  that they were trying to turn the Earth into a plague planet
• 57:04
  which would roam the universe, and I think that's a big scary
• 57:08
  idea. It is surprisingly good for Nick
• 57:11
  also, whereas Rusty Davis suggests it's part of a gigantic
• 57:16
  super weapon. Like the Earth was wanted to
• 57:19
  create this thing that's going to destroy every single particle
• 57:22
  in the universe or something. It's it's an absolutely bonkers
• 57:26
  idea. I love it.
• 57:27
  Yeah, me too. It's again, you don't get that
• 57:30
  on other shows because other shows take themselves far too
• 57:33
  seriously. But Doctor Who goes no, they
• 57:35
  want to planet fucking Earth and for what?
• 57:38
  For what? But.
• 57:39
  Then they shove a camera in Julian bleachers face and say
• 57:42
  right, say this speech, right, This batshit crazy speech.
• 57:45
  People, pets and stars, you know.
• 57:51
  Great stuff. Who What do you think of these
• 57:53
  guest characters then of Dortmund?
• 57:55
  Jenny. I think it's Tyler, isn't it?
• 57:58
  That's. Yeah, Tyler, that's it.
• 58:01
  So again, I kind of just associate them with the movie
• 58:05
  version and this always feels like a bit of an imitation for
• 58:09
  me. However, Jenny isn't in the
• 58:11
  movie version, I don't think. And I think she's by far the
• 58:15
  most interesting one because she's got, there's that scene
• 58:17
  later on where Dortmund goes, you know, dull.
• 58:21
  She deals with it in her own way.
• 58:22
  She's obviously just been through some really traumatic
• 58:24
  shit because of what what's happened.
• 58:26
  So of course she's cold and callous.
• 58:28
  Did we ever get her back story though?
• 58:30
  As to, I know, obviously like she's traumatized because of
• 58:33
  what's happened. Yeah, we find out much about
• 58:36
  her. I don't think we do.
• 58:37
  No, I think, I think you're right.
• 58:40
  And well, when we get that spin off series, I'm sure we'll find
• 58:43
  out all about her. But.
• 58:44
  What, Jenny. Not the Doctor's daughter?
• 58:47
  Yeah, exactly. There's a wonderful story on the
• 58:52
  documentary of Jacqueline Hill and oh, good grief.
• 58:55
  And Davies. That's her name, isn't it?
• 58:57
  Jenny meeting in this. And they were lifelong friends
• 59:00
  after this. And it turns out, yeah, it turns
• 59:02
  out about 10 years later, Jacqueline Hill and Alvin
• 59:07
  Rakoff, her husband, moved into the same St. as Anne Davis and
• 59:11
  her husband Richard Bryers. And they were just dying in
• 59:17
  together all the time. And like, after they quit
• 59:20
  acting, I think Anne Davis and Jacqueline Hill did like Open
• 59:22
  University together and stuff like that spreads right up until
• 59:26
  Jacqueline Hill died. There's a few stories like that
• 59:29
  of people meeting in Doctor Who. Yeah, I mean, I'd, I'd like to
• 59:34
  go to one of their dinner parties.
• 59:35
  Sounds, sounds like a laugh. I I think.
• 59:38
  But conversely, like I'm sure William Russell said that you
• 59:41
  never heard from Jacqueline Hill again or something like that.
• 59:44
  Really. I could, I could be wrong, but I
• 59:48
  feel like maybe we'll find that more in the Season 2 Blu-ray
• 59:52
  boxer interview with William Russell.
• 59:54
  But I swear, he said you never really heard from her again
• 59:57
  afterwards, which is sure. There'll be some tasty tidbits
• 1:00:00
  in the 500 hours of bonus material.
• 1:00:04
  I live for that stuff, you know. Me too, me too.
• 1:00:07
  I'm a bit worried about the William Russell interview just
• 1:00:10
  because they showed us some clips from it.
• 1:00:12
  He seems a bit shaky, doesn't he?
• 1:00:14
  I mean, you know, he's he's old and obviously that's, that's
• 1:00:18
  what happens. But it's just, it's just quite
• 1:00:19
  sad when you see people like, I'm very lucky that I've still
• 1:00:22
  got a grandparent who's probably about the same age and hit in my
• 1:00:26
  granddad. He's of a similar, you know, you
• 1:00:28
  just don't get a lot of coherent sort of sentences out of him
• 1:00:33
  anymore. And I just, it's just a bit sad
• 1:00:35
  when you see someone like William Russell, who's had an
• 1:00:39
  amazing career and his interviews with him are always
• 1:00:41
  fantastic. And it's, yeah.
• 1:00:43
  But it'll, it'll be nice to see it and maybe we'll get a couple
• 1:00:47
  more revelations. I think Matthew Sweet does such
• 1:00:50
  a brilliant job on those interviews because he manages to
• 1:00:54
  talk to them. I think he's done things like
• 1:00:57
  Katie Manning as he, Nicola Bryant, and he knows all of the
• 1:01:00
  usual anecdotes. So he diverts away from all of
• 1:01:03
  that and just digs a little deeper.
• 1:01:05
  He managed to get a new anecdote and new things out of Tom Baker,
• 1:01:09
  which I thought nobody would ever do, even just like I
• 1:01:13
  remember he asked Tom. He's talking about the building,
• 1:01:16
  him working on the Building Society building site and you
• 1:01:19
  expect the same old story. And Matthew Sweet just goes.
• 1:01:23
  But how did that make you feel? So rather than what was this
• 1:01:27
  situation like? How how does it feel to be that
• 1:01:30
  person doing that? And so Tom's answering the same
• 1:01:32
  questions that he's always got in a different way almost, and
• 1:01:35
  he's just a fantastic interviewer.
• 1:01:37
  I. Think as well, I hit the balls
• 1:01:38
  he had to get Michael Grade on and that was a brilliant
• 1:01:43
  interview like I thought I don't like Michael Grade very much I
• 1:01:46
  really like the TV that he's created, things like that.
• 1:01:48
  But I I love the interview. I learned so much.
• 1:01:51
  Trait it was it was great I'll and even I mean he almost gets a
• 1:01:57
  he almost gets Katie Manning to say that Nicholas Courtney was
• 1:02:00
  bisexual, but then she she. Does doesn't she?
• 1:02:02
  I I didn't realise that until she said that.
• 1:02:05
  Yeah. About him struggling with his
• 1:02:07
  sexuality. And she kind of says something
• 1:02:10
  and then darts over it, but it's just a little nugget of
• 1:02:13
  somebody'd life that you that you didn't normally get it's.
• 1:02:16
  And honestly, well, we love pride into the personal lives of
• 1:02:21
  that life and scandalous times of John Nathan Turner.
• 1:02:24
  Oh my God, I've read that in about a day.
• 1:02:26
  It's a massive. Book.
• 1:02:27
  Yeah, I know. I was exactly the same.
• 1:02:30
  I remember getting at the time and all my friends were like,
• 1:02:33
  oh, you what? What's that book about?
• 1:02:35
  I was like, it's you can't seem to put it down.
• 1:02:37
  It's like it's about the final producer of classic Doctor Who.
• 1:02:40
  They were like, that sounds so boring.
• 1:02:41
  I'm like, if you read this, you'd be going through it as
• 1:02:45
  quickly as I am. Aren't you going to sleep today?
• 1:02:47
  No. I'm too busy learning gossip
• 1:02:48
  about John Nathan Turner. Leave me alone.
• 1:02:50
  You know, like this is juicy stuff on my podcast.
• 1:02:53
  Come on. It's a fantastic book.
• 1:02:55
  I do like the documentary that was on the Blu rays about him,
• 1:02:58
  but it was it it shield over some of the less controversial
• 1:03:03
  elements. Which is fine because sometimes
• 1:03:05
  you want to celebrate someone's life without having to go into
• 1:03:08
  the more salacious bits. I think with John Nathan Turner
• 1:03:11
  or way off pace but who cares. This is interesting with John
• 1:03:14
  Nathan Turner. I think if you listen to the Big
• 1:03:17
  Finish memoirs that he did, and that's mostly production detail,
• 1:03:20
  but really interesting. You read the Scandalous Times
• 1:03:23
  book, which is his personal life, and that's pretty toxic
• 1:03:27
  and absolutely fascinating. And then what was the other one
• 1:03:30
  you just said? The documentary?
• 1:03:32
  Yeah, the documentary. Chris Chapman.
• 1:03:34
  Is it? Yeah.
• 1:03:35
  And I think that paints a really good story of how his career was
• 1:03:38
  on the rise. He took on Doctor Who and then
• 1:03:41
  it kind of crashed and burned. So as a whole, all those three
• 1:03:45
  things that really paints a vivid picture.
• 1:03:48
  It's a shame that we never got him to, you know, obviously it's
• 1:03:52
  a very shame that he didn't live longer, but that perhaps he
• 1:03:54
  never got to tell his story as he would have liked to have told
• 1:03:57
  this because his memoirs are very, they're not very salacious
• 1:04:01
  at all, considering the sort of person he was.
• 1:04:03
  As you say, it's all very production heavy.
• 1:04:06
  But he's not really. I mean, that was in Dog 2
• 1:04:07
  magazine. He's not going to sit there,
• 1:04:09
  type in well, and this Doctor Who fan was there and I
• 1:04:11
  whispered in his ear, Have you ever had two inside you?
• 1:04:18
  I don't want to die. There was another example there
• 1:04:21
  of pretty shoddy direction in that it's got a fantastic idea.
• 1:04:24
  You've got the spotlight in the darkness, it's picking out
• 1:04:27
  garlics, and it could kind of be really nightmarish if that was
• 1:04:31
  well. But it looks like just a
• 1:04:34
  stationary camera and a light just shooting around the set.
• 1:04:37
  Yeah, and it keeps going on to the cardboard Dalek that they've
• 1:04:39
  got to bolt the numbers up. And it's like you can do some
• 1:04:42
  really interesting stuff where you make it so dark you can
• 1:04:44
  reuse the same Daleks again and again, but it just, it just
• 1:04:47
  doesn't quite work. There's a moment we get earlier
• 1:04:51
  on. Oh, there's another Dalek going
• 1:04:52
  down the ramp earlier on. I think we might have missed of
• 1:04:57
  them going to robotize the Doctor.
• 1:04:58
  And one of the Daleks just goes take his coat off.
• 1:05:01
  And I just thought, why can't you?
• 1:05:03
  Why can't Robomen be robotized with their coats on?
• 1:05:06
  It's just a very odd thing. It's like.
• 1:05:09
  No, they just make the coats bloody hideous.
• 1:05:12
  Burn it. I just saw William Hannah being
• 1:05:15
  manhandled on that table. I was like, what on earth is
• 1:05:17
  going on here? Is flat out I do.
• 1:05:22
  I quite like these sets as well the spaceship sets, they feel
• 1:05:25
  quite big. They do and they've got two
• 1:05:27
  tiers, so I think it's, we may have missed it, but there's at
• 1:05:30
  some point you see somebody on a top level and the Daleks lower
• 1:05:33
  down like they're really going for it.
• 1:05:35
  I just, I just think like, think about the direction of the
• 1:05:38
  crusade later on in this season. Do you remember the sequence
• 1:05:42
  where Saladin is that Bono K's character?
• 1:05:46
  Yeah, he's first revealed listening, and the camera comes
• 1:05:50
  for a curtain and he's in the half dark and there's action
• 1:05:54
  going on behind him. And it's so skilfully put
• 1:05:56
  together. And I think to myself, man, if
• 1:05:59
  some of that was in here, this would, you know, And I think
• 1:06:02
  this is good. Yeah, it could be exceptionally
• 1:06:05
  good. It could.
• 1:06:06
  It could. In fact, we, well, we, we know
• 1:06:07
  we've seen the better version already on the on, on the movie.
• 1:06:10
  Movie. Yeah.
• 1:06:11
  What's your favorite bit in that movie?
• 1:06:14
  Oh, I mean, I I like the bits. I think it's there's a couple of
• 1:06:19
  bits, probably the bit where the TARDIS gets like all the rubble
• 1:06:23
  falls on it. Like that version is just so
• 1:06:25
  much better. I do like the scene and with the
• 1:06:29
  robo men and like they're eating the food and Bernard Cribbins
• 1:06:32
  just being very slapstick about it all do.
• 1:06:35
  You know, a bit. I love it.
• 1:06:36
  It's a bit where Philip Maddock tricks them and then he's like,
• 1:06:40
  yeah, I told you that'd be here, didn't I?
• 1:06:43
  And all those Daleks around that, and they blow the shit out
• 1:06:47
  of it, don't they? They.
• 1:06:48
  Blow inside. Well, if you if you dare to sit
• 1:06:54
  in the mastermind chair for a second again whilst I head back
• 1:06:57
  to Twitter and ask me a few questions, the wonderful Jack
• 1:07:01
  Koya would like to know. What other cities and national
• 1:07:04
  landmarks would you like to see the Daleks patrolling through?
• 1:07:07
  Oh that's, that's interesting. I mean, I'd just like to see
• 1:07:12
  them like down my local Tesco's or something like that.
• 1:07:15
  Nice to see them in normal, normal places.
• 1:07:17
  Just that down an aisle there otherwise.
• 1:07:21
  Do you know what? If this was being done now, that
• 1:07:23
  totally would be being done, wouldn't it?
• 1:07:25
  Hey, make it utterly domestic. Yeah, on the streets of Soho,
• 1:07:29
  you know, maybe in the sort of 60s and 70s, visiting various
• 1:07:34
  sex clubs and sex shops and things like that.
• 1:07:36
  Maybe we just don't. Let's go shopping.
• 1:07:38
  I think so, yeah. For a little handbag, you know.
• 1:07:42
  Lovely. One of it all of time and Space
• 1:07:46
  podcasts would like to know. Honestly, people are trying to
• 1:07:49
  be very witty with these questions.
• 1:07:51
  Who would win in a clash of the Buffons between David Campbell
• 1:07:55
  and Steven Taylor? Steven Taylor and he any day.
• 1:07:58
  He's got a much better wig and I feel like, you know, his hair,
• 1:08:02
  just his hair is just solid and stays there the whole time,
• 1:08:05
  throughout the time. He's got so much volume in it.
• 1:08:08
  It's like his finger in the power socket, isn't it?
• 1:08:13
  OK, one last one then. For this episode, David Rennie
• 1:08:17
  asks that Episode 1 cliffhanger What on earth do you think that
• 1:08:21
  Dalek has been doing under that water?
• 1:08:24
  Do you know what? I saw that and I thought, well,
• 1:08:27
  he's probably just crossing from the other side, you know?
• 1:08:30
  That's why I thought, yeah, he's just, he's just going across the
• 1:08:32
  river. Yeah, if I could.
• 1:08:34
  I live on the River Thames and if I could get to the other side
• 1:08:37
  by walking underneath I absolutely bloody wood.
• 1:08:39
  But it's not to be. So the Daleks have got it locked
• 1:08:42
  because they're better than us. There's fabulous walk to taxis,
• 1:08:45
  don't they? They can go straight in.
• 1:08:48
  Right. Yeah, they do.
• 1:08:48
  But they don't, they don't float around a bit where I where I am.
• 1:08:51
  It's very disappointing. Oh really?
• 1:08:53
  Yeah, it's nice to ask where you are then.
• 1:08:55
  But then everyone will know where you live and.
• 1:08:57
  Well, I mean, I'm not going to give my full address.
• 1:09:01
  I live. I live in.
• 1:09:02
  An area Please send hate mail to the following address if you do
• 1:09:04
  not agree with the opinions. I live in an area called
• 1:09:07
  Whopping and it's parts of the talents of when Triangle were
• 1:09:11
  filmed here many years ago. So I live about 5 minutes away
• 1:09:14
  from Professor Lightfoot's house and the opening bit where they
• 1:09:18
  they pulled the body out the river and she goes, you know,
• 1:09:21
  make it all sick. That would.
• 1:09:23
  There it is. Gov All not served up with
• 1:09:27
  onions. That's it.
• 1:09:29
  You're not you don't live around where they they did that entire
• 1:09:32
  Terry nations army video, do you around there?
• 1:09:35
  No, it's so it's there. There's various points along
• 1:09:39
  along the river that all of them reasonably walkable from mine,
• 1:09:43
  but I think that's on the the other side.
• 1:09:45
  So it's unfortunately when I watched that video, I was like,
• 1:09:48
  oh, I'm going to see my house. And the answer is no.
• 1:09:51
  Also I live in kind of a newer build further down the road
• 1:09:54
  rather than the the lovely Victorian houses which and
• 1:09:59
  warehouses that are very very expensive.
• 1:10:02
  Well, you've kind of been very specific, whilst not being
• 1:10:04
  specific at all about your house, so people can sort of
• 1:10:07
  throw the fan mail in that general direction.
• 1:10:10
  Yeah, they could. They could probably find my
• 1:10:12
  local quite easily from from what I've just said.
• 1:10:15
  Leave it there then, folks, but you and I are heading into the
• 1:10:19
  day of reckoning. Can't wait.
• 1:10:21
  Are you ready to face this? I'm ready to face this.
• 1:10:25
  Let's do it None.
• 1:11:00
  Hamster with a blump pen knife to do it quicker.
• 1:11:06
  Welcome back to a Hamster with a blump pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 1:11:10
  Commentary podcast, Dylan. Hello, I'm still here.
• 1:11:16
  You are still here, thank goodness, especially after me
• 1:11:19
  asking to come around and play with your Dalek.
• 1:11:21
  I'm very pleased you come back for Episode 3.
• 1:11:23
  Anytime I'm ready for my day of reckoning.
• 1:11:28
  It would be, honestly. So here we are, Episode 3 of the
• 1:11:33
  Dalek Invasion of Earth. I'm going to do something a bit
• 1:11:36
  unfair to you now. Go on.
• 1:11:38
  Wait, something I do every now and again.
• 1:11:39
  Just see that people have in fact been paying attention.
• 1:11:43
  And if you could care to tell the viewers what has occurred in
• 1:11:46
  the Dalek invasion of Earth to date?
• 1:11:48
  Well the Daleks have invaded the Earth and the Doctor and Co
• 1:11:54
  landed. Susan unfortunately made a bunch
• 1:11:58
  of stuff collapse on the TARDIS. Is unfortunately there.
• 1:12:01
  Yes, she is unfortunately there. Susan and Barbara are off with
• 1:12:05
  some rebels. The Doctor has narrowly escaped
• 1:12:08
  being a robo man and I believe is Oh, no, the Doctor's now with
• 1:12:13
  Susan and David Campbell or David Cameron as he's known in
• 1:12:16
  the book and and Ian's. Ian's stuck in a flying saucer,
• 1:12:22
  I think. I think he's off to Bedfordshire
• 1:12:25
  and Barbara and Jenny are about to embark on an adventure with
• 1:12:30
  Dort. Dortmund, Dortmund, Dortmund,
• 1:12:33
  whoever. But yeah, so they've all been
• 1:12:35
  split up and things are heating up, but the Dalits killing
• 1:12:41
  people, I'll. Just say, well, that was very
• 1:12:43
  adeptly done. Thank you very much.
• 1:12:45
  It was my pleasure. I'm going to say controversial.
• 1:12:49
  I think this might be my favorite episode.
• 1:12:51
  This is the episode with all the location filming of them dashing
• 1:12:54
  about London, isn't it? Yes, it is.
• 1:12:56
  Yeah. So this is a.
• 1:12:57
  This is an absolute belter and. I think you can throw a word
• 1:13:00
  around the word iconic quite a bit, but.
• 1:13:03
  Yeah. It's it's really beautiful stuff
• 1:13:06
  and it's Richard Martin at his best because he hasn't got a
• 1:13:09
  bunch of cameras in the studio. Do they use this is very geeky
• 1:13:14
  and I don't know they answered this question.
• 1:13:15
  Do they use the same cameramen in the studio as they do on
• 1:13:19
  location? Like is it other people doing
• 1:13:22
  the work? I mean, I know the difference.
• 1:13:24
  That's what I'm saying. Yeah.
• 1:13:26
  I mean, I know that they sometimes when they you'll watch
• 1:13:29
  like a DVD extra or something, they'll refer to the film
• 1:13:32
  cameraman. So I'm assuming it's a different
• 1:13:34
  person, it's a different type of camera.
• 1:13:36
  So I suppose it's a different technical expertise to a certain
• 1:13:38
  extent. So maybe you can do both, but I,
• 1:13:42
  I suspect something like the BBC would have that they'd be
• 1:13:46
  convoluted enough, especially in those days, to go, no, you're
• 1:13:48
  either a videotape cameraman or you're a film cameraman.
• 1:13:53
  I think in the same breath they know like these are the money
• 1:13:55
  shots, you know, we'll toss all the budget in that direction.
• 1:14:02
  You wouldn't know anything about that so.
• 1:14:07
  Oh, I've been tossed in every different direction you could
• 1:14:09
  possibly think. I've done my ring.
• 1:14:10
  Have you really? Well, we'll talk off camera
• 1:14:13
  then. All right.
• 1:14:17
  But for now, we should probably head into Episode 3 if you are
• 1:14:20
  ready. Yeah, shall I count us in?
• 1:14:23
  Yes, please. OK, 321 go.
• 1:14:29
  This is the first time I've ever spoken to you.
• 1:14:30
  I feel like I've known you for years.
• 1:14:33
  This is great. It's the beginning of a
• 1:14:34
  beautiful friendship if they're listening.
• 1:14:36
  Who is the great unifier? You know, I'm starting to think
• 1:14:38
  this. It is, it is.
• 1:14:40
  I've got a few mates that I have met exclusively through
• 1:14:43
  podcasting just so they on the Time Lash Boys, who I know quite
• 1:14:47
  well now. And there's another podcast
• 1:14:48
  called I Hate Doctor Who, Richie Morgan, who runs that, and we
• 1:14:52
  met through podcasting and met in real life and remain very
• 1:14:57
  pally. I mean to make this very
• 1:14:59
  personal. I met my partner, of course.
• 1:15:01
  Yeah. In fact, you can chart the
• 1:15:03
  history of our relationship from our first meeting on our very
• 1:15:05
  first commentary together to the last one I brought in.
• 1:15:09
  That's that's a beautiful thing to have those things, as long as
• 1:15:11
  it doesn't chart a decline at some point.
• 1:15:14
  Jesus. Christ, 10 years after he's
• 1:15:16
  moved out, I'll be crying away listening to those.
• 1:15:21
  I'm sure you will live happily ever after.
• 1:15:23
  Oh, thank you very much. I do hope so.
• 1:15:26
  Poor William Hartner is out after this episode.
• 1:15:29
  Yeah, would you know why he's out?
• 1:15:30
  He got. Lost down a ramp or something?
• 1:15:33
  Didn't he? He did.
• 1:15:34
  Somebody carried him down a ramp and dropped him and he was
• 1:15:36
  briefly paralysed and he continued with the recording of
• 1:15:41
  this episode or the last episode and then had to have a few weeks
• 1:15:44
  off. But I, I never buy that.
• 1:15:45
  I just think he was probably out on the lash, to be honest.
• 1:15:48
  I think he. Too much champagne from that
• 1:15:52
  Fortnum and Mason's hamper, but yeah.
• 1:15:54
  There for lunchtime, I tell you what I mean, I'm all for a
• 1:15:56
  Fortnum and Mason's hamper, but if I had a glass of champagne at
• 1:15:59
  lunch, you're not getting. Me finished.
• 1:16:02
  No, I can't even have one drink, you know, Honestly, I see now
• 1:16:06
  this is another there. We go.
• 1:16:09
  Sequence. What's really interesting is
• 1:16:11
  again, when the action goes on location in this, it's fluid and
• 1:16:15
  it's stylish and yet this attack on the saucer in a minute,
• 1:16:19
  there's a lot of over the, you know, over the Daleks head shots
• 1:16:22
  and things like that and of them sort of milling around and
• 1:16:25
  bumping into each other and. It's a very fetching balaclava
• 1:16:30
  that's Jenny's got on there, isn't?
• 1:16:32
  It there's a reason she's wearing that, is there?
• 1:16:35
  I think her hair had been dyed or something at this point.
• 1:16:39
  Something like that. I.
• 1:16:41
  See. It was.
• 1:16:43
  I'm not sure you'd choose to wear it.
• 1:16:47
  I'm going to attack a Dalek saucer.
• 1:16:48
  I'm going to put my best balaclava on.
• 1:16:50
  So that wasn't him, Heartnell there going down the ramp.
• 1:16:53
  I I don't know whether it was him or whether that was a
• 1:16:56
  retake. And that was the scene where he
• 1:16:58
  was carried down, dropped, and then they were like, well, just
• 1:17:01
  he's unconscious, let's just drag him quickly down there.
• 1:17:03
  Health and safety didn't exist back then.
• 1:17:07
  Yeah, this. A minute ago, yeah.
• 1:17:09
  We just saw Tyler stab one of the Rover men today.
• 1:17:15
  It's pretty. And he's one of the heroes.
• 1:17:18
  Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's no nonsense, is
• 1:17:22
  it? It's like all these people have
• 1:17:23
  done horrible things to survive. I mean, it's not quite The
• 1:17:26
  Walking Dead, but it's it's, it's certainly veering in that
• 1:17:30
  direction of like, if you survive this long, you must
• 1:17:33
  have, you've been through some shit and you've done some dark
• 1:17:36
  things. And I think that's sort of the
• 1:17:37
  sequence that really gets me. I don't, again, I don't think
• 1:17:40
  it's well executed. And maybe it's not well acted,
• 1:17:43
  but on the page. And it's the fellow that Ian
• 1:17:47
  ends up down the mines with when he has to kill his brother,
• 1:17:51
  who's turned into a robot man. And it's a really long sequence
• 1:17:54
  where one's trying to strangle the other and the other like,
• 1:17:56
  stabs him to death. And I'm like, this is pretty
• 1:18:01
  grim for Doctor Who. And even now I like just this
• 1:18:04
  guy going down into the sewer, can't quite get down there, gets
• 1:18:08
  exterminated, although he does dice just before the
• 1:18:12
  extermination effect actually starts.
• 1:18:13
  But you know, we'll, we'll forgive that.
• 1:18:15
  And there's a moment coming up where the guy that they were
• 1:18:18
  locked in the doctor and Ian were locked in a cell with is
• 1:18:20
  suddenly a robo man and Ian has to do away with him.
• 1:18:23
  It's like it's relentless, just like everybody's having a shit
• 1:18:26
  time. And they're like constantly on
• 1:18:28
  the run as well. Yeah, I would.
• 1:18:31
  There's like a feeling of oppression I think throughout.
• 1:18:35
  Yeah, this is, I know that it's quite an unpopular opinion
• 1:18:38
  because I wouldn't like, I would love to see this remade in
• 1:18:42
  modern Doctor Who. Like I'm I'm not.
• 1:18:44
  So I don't believe Doctor Who is a sacred text.
• 1:18:47
  And I, if somebody said we're going to remake some old Doctor
• 1:18:50
  Who stories with the current team, I'd be like, this one must
• 1:18:53
  be up there. I think if they can remake
• 1:18:56
  Jubilee as Dalek, and if they can remake human nature as human
• 1:19:00
  nature, yeah, why can't they do classic Doctor Who stories?
• 1:19:04
  Yeah, I mean, I'm also someone that wouldn't be opposed to a
• 1:19:08
  page one Doctor Who reboot, but I don't know.
• 1:19:11
  That's a very unpopular opinion. Just start again.
• 1:19:16
  What do you mean by that? Explain that.
• 1:19:18
  I mean, an episode, a series of Doctor Who finishes and it's the
• 1:19:21
  end. And then there's a, there's a
• 1:19:23
  new version of Doctor Who, but it's just like it's the a first
• 1:19:26
  Doctor, whoever that is. And the it's the slates wipe
• 1:19:30
  completely clean. So you can remake old, you can
• 1:19:34
  remake old stories or you can do new things with old concepts,
• 1:19:37
  but there's no Canon, there's no history.
• 1:19:40
  And you just, you just start again with a character called
• 1:19:43
  the Doctor Who appears on earth or wherever has never met the
• 1:19:46
  Daleks, has never met the master.
• 1:19:48
  Just start it again. It's.
• 1:19:49
  Pretty enticing, you know. But but also I always thought
• 1:19:53
  that and someone will do it one day.
• 1:19:56
  It's only not connected until five seasons in Somebody goes.
• 1:20:02
  This was the alternative universe.
• 1:20:03
  Doctor and 90 year old David Tennant shows up because he has
• 1:20:08
  to show up every few years, obviously.
• 1:20:10
  Imagine that Ian Levine would explode.
• 1:20:12
  Like he would literally explode. No, he he would literally become
• 1:20:17
  a showrunner just so he could make it the alternative
• 1:20:19
  universe. You know my precious baby I.
• 1:20:24
  Know I know I mean he he lost his shit when Doctor Who became
• 1:20:27
  a woman didn't he but still watched every episode despite
• 1:20:30
  saying he. Wasn't hated it all except the
• 1:20:32
  odd one which he said that was the best thing ever it it.
• 1:20:36
  It goes to prove what someone like Ian Levine wants and likes
• 1:20:41
  about Doctor Who when all of a sudden he thought Power of the
• 1:20:43
  Doctor was the greatest thing ever just because it had some
• 1:20:46
  cameos in it. It's like I I love Power of the
• 1:20:49
  Doctor, but but I'm a fan of the era, as we were saying on the
• 1:20:53
  previous episode. But it's interesting that I
• 1:20:56
  don't think it's the best episode of the era.
• 1:20:59
  So in terms of critical faculties, actually, you're not
• 1:21:03
  judging it by the content, you're judging it based on the
• 1:21:06
  fact that it pushed the nostalgia buttons by bringing
• 1:21:09
  back Ian Chesterton and Colin Baker or whatever.
• 1:21:12
  And I don't think that's quite the critical factors you should
• 1:21:15
  be judging an episode of Doctor Who by.
• 1:21:18
  Don't. Get me wrong?
• 1:21:19
  Like my heart swelled when Ian turned up and I love the capias
• 1:21:23
  and all of that. My favorite parts of that were
• 1:21:26
  13 and Yas. And the fact that, sorry I'm
• 1:21:30
  going offhanded again, I don't care.
• 1:21:32
  The fact that her last act before she died was an act of
• 1:21:37
  kindness, freeing that and it reminded me so much of it takes
• 1:21:40
  you away. Like facing something amazing
• 1:21:42
  and then setting it free into the universe.
• 1:21:45
  I just thought, I just thought he gauged her exit perfectly.
• 1:21:50
  It was one of my favourite like new series exits.
• 1:21:53
  I found quite a few of them to be very overblown and it wasn't
• 1:21:56
  really an episode about. The agonising speech was there
• 1:22:00
  at the end. Just, you know, whoever you are
• 1:22:01
  next, let's do it. It was a.
• 1:22:04
  A lovely moment and really subtly played and I hope that
• 1:22:09
  the people that have been very unkind about that era in a few
• 1:22:12
  years time will come back to it when it will.
• 1:22:15
  It will happen. Yeah, and re evaluate and
• 1:22:17
  realise what a what a breath of fresh air that era was.
• 1:22:22
  But we'll talk about that when we do demons.
• 1:22:24
  Indeed. Indeed.
• 1:22:27
  Oh yeah. Dalek invasion of Earth.
• 1:22:28
  Yeah, yeah. This is all right too.
• 1:22:30
  So that's the. Thing about dogs, who isn't it?
• 1:22:32
  It can just spark conversations that away from the story that
• 1:22:37
  you're talking about. There's such a breadth of it
• 1:22:39
  now. There's so much Doctor Who.
• 1:22:41
  Yeah, and it's I love on one side I'm talking about a page
• 1:22:45
  one reboot, but on the other side, like it's all interlinked.
• 1:22:48
  And do you know what? I'd love to see them do
• 1:22:51
  something interesting with the Robo man.
• 1:22:54
  Now, I think I mentioned before they do it in Dalek Empire, the
• 1:22:57
  Big Finish series. But yeah, I I just think it's
• 1:23:01
  such a horrible concept that. The the.
• 1:23:05
  Much better than I bloody hated that thing they did in the
• 1:23:07
  Moffat era where like a Dalek gun had come out of someone's
• 1:23:10
  hand and eye stalk out of their head.
• 1:23:12
  It's like. I'll never, ever shut up.
• 1:23:18
  Oh, I appreciate there are many fans of that era, and I'm so
• 1:23:22
  pleased you enjoyed it. And I was a lot about it.
• 1:23:24
  I did enjoy as well. But yeah, I had some issues.
• 1:23:28
  I'm a fan of that era, but there's certain parts of it that
• 1:23:31
  don't work for me. But again, we we digress.
• 1:23:36
  Well, it's because they've sort of been tossing about with this
• 1:23:39
  robot. Man, I can't stop saying the
• 1:23:41
  word, alright? Playing about with it.
• 1:23:43
  Oh for God's sakes, I can't win. There you go.
• 1:23:47
  And. He someone outside was just
• 1:23:51
  walking along running away from the Daleks and that robo man
• 1:23:54
  just fell on their head. Yeah, he's gone down the chute
• 1:23:58
  and. In fact, they made that explicit
• 1:24:01
  in a movie where Cribbins goes down the chute and then they
• 1:24:04
  just sort of like jump onto the location.
• 1:24:07
  Don't. They.
• 1:24:08
  I mean what What are the what do the Daleks need all those rubber
• 1:24:10
  shoots for? Are they getting rid of?
• 1:24:13
  They've got to toss out all the rainbow drops, aren't they?
• 1:24:17
  See, I like. I like.
• 1:24:20
  All these sets as well, these sort of broke ruined buildings.
• 1:24:24
  I like it when they go down in the sewers as well.
• 1:24:27
  Like it's not contained. You think they would because
• 1:24:30
  they ain't got any money containing it to a few settings.
• 1:24:32
  Actually, it just, and this is a very terranation thing, Keith
• 1:24:36
  and Mariners, he's like, right, every two minutes we're going to
• 1:24:38
  go off somewhere else. You know, I don't get, you ain't
• 1:24:40
  got the money. We're going to a jungle, we're
• 1:24:42
  going to an ice tundra. Yeah, and this is, I think this
• 1:24:47
  is the bit where you just hear the Daleks exterminate someone
• 1:24:49
  off screen, is that right? Obviously I'm watching the sand.
• 1:24:52
  And yeah. And so the focus is on Carolyn
• 1:24:55
  Ford and this fella. David, David.
• 1:24:58
  Campbell, Cameron. Honestly, look at this, it's a
• 1:25:01
  love story for the ages. This pair honestly, at 1 moment
• 1:25:06
  they're juggling a fish, the next moment they're married.
• 1:25:10
  I. Know, yes, but this is the bit
• 1:25:12
  and the guys going you killed my wife, you killed my brother and
• 1:25:16
  then they just exterminate him. I mean, it's a bit obvious, but
• 1:25:19
  it's still kind of scary. Yeah, I think for kids, you
• 1:25:25
  know, with the brother over there and the mother over there
• 1:25:27
  in the living room, you know, watching this.
• 1:25:30
  Yeah, it is. It's like it's it's dark stuff
• 1:25:32
  for us. It's Saturday tea time in that
• 1:25:35
  respect. And I really appreciate the
• 1:25:38
  efforts they go to to make this relationship plausible because I
• 1:25:43
  tell you what, they don't always do that.
• 1:25:45
  And Doctor, Who do they? Leila and Andreas?
• 1:25:49
  Yeah, like you, you can kind of believe she'd want to stay with
• 1:25:52
  them even if you know and the spin off media delves a bit
• 1:25:56
  further into what happens between those two, but.
• 1:26:01
  I just think it's so moving as well because she would never
• 1:26:05
  leave him, you know? And he makes the choice for her.
• 1:26:08
  You know you've got to go, otherwise you will never leave
• 1:26:11
  me. He's like, I know whether
• 1:26:13
  there's a spaceship crash somewhere with somebody that's a
• 1:26:15
  bit better than you. So I'm I'm off to the planet.
• 1:26:18
  Dido. See you later.
• 1:26:20
  Enjoy life in war-torn London. And then when she's gone, you
• 1:26:24
  know, Dodo, you look just like my granddaughter Susan.
• 1:26:27
  Come on some adventures with me, you know?
• 1:26:31
  It's Dodo Renaissance now, you know, isn't it?
• 1:26:34
  Oh yeah, everybody loves her. I'm a big Finnish recaster,
• 1:26:37
  didn't they? With somebody that's that I
• 1:26:39
  believe is quite attractive. So everybody's like, oh, dodo's
• 1:26:41
  a babe. Now say something really, really
• 1:26:44
  obscene. Now say it.
• 1:26:46
  All Jackie Lane had to do was die for Dodo to be popular.
• 1:26:51
  Everyone singing her praises. I've always rather enjoyed her.
• 1:26:55
  She's enthusiastic enough, you know.
• 1:26:57
  It's because a lot of her episodes don't exist that I just
• 1:27:01
  the episodes that do exist were the last ones to be released on
• 1:27:04
  VHS. So it was just kind of like
• 1:27:07
  every people have just been down on the character because they
• 1:27:10
  don't know a lot about her. And you know, there are a lot of
• 1:27:13
  production issues at that time that that do affect her.
• 1:27:16
  I've got this sort of nightmare scenario of the 13th Doctor,
• 1:27:21
  Dodo and Mel all travelling together.
• 1:27:24
  Can you imagine the enthusiasm in that room?
• 1:27:29
  I'm up for it. There's a spin off we need to
• 1:27:30
  see. Big Finish, do your work.
• 1:27:34
  You've got all the actors. Let's go.
• 1:27:36
  Yeah, let's go. I'm, I'm into it.
• 1:27:38
  It's. Oh, here he is.
• 1:27:39
  He's having a nap. Old Billy Hartnell.
• 1:27:41
  Oh. No, I've action though that does
• 1:27:42
  raise the stakes, doesn't it? Yeah, it does.
• 1:27:45
  It does feel like, well, the the Doctor's fucked because he's
• 1:27:48
  nearly robotized and. We can, we can criticize Susan
• 1:27:53
  because, and I think it's mostly the characterization,
• 1:27:56
  occasionally the performance. I do really believe that they're
• 1:28:00
  related and they're very fond of each other.
• 1:28:04
  There's a lovely moment late later on where she's massaging
• 1:28:07
  his leg as he's trying to like, sort of gain feeling back in it.
• 1:28:11
  And again, I'm not. Now go on, that's.
• 1:28:14
  Just another person slaughtered here, another character that we
• 1:28:16
  meet briefly and we're like, oh, he's going down to the the
• 1:28:19
  coast, he'll be safe. And he's just, he's gone.
• 1:28:22
  I mean, we all say that, you know, it's Eric's award that
• 1:28:25
  gets the Reservoir Dogs count in, but Terry Nation wiped out
• 1:28:30
  most of the population of the Earth in the pilot of Survivors.
• 1:28:34
  Yeah, he does. He.
• 1:28:35
  Loves massacre in an underground car park in the pilot of Blake
• 1:28:38
  7. Yeah, very true.
• 1:28:40
  He does. He doesn't dark that whole thing
• 1:28:42
  in the first episode of Blake's ever.
• 1:28:43
  Maybe framed for being a paedophile.
• 1:28:46
  It's like fucking hell and. They really shy away from all of
• 1:28:50
  that later on, Gan like and the suggestion of sexual assault and
• 1:28:55
  things like that. That's all very.
• 1:28:58
  Here we are with them. 6 episodes are like, this is going
• 1:29:00
  to be a serious drama and then June Hudson joins us, joins the
• 1:29:04
  show and it's game over. Yeah, we're here.
• 1:29:07
  We are with all the location footage and we've seen the the
• 1:29:11
  Daleks out and about. And this is like 5 minutes of
• 1:29:15
  the Dalek Invasion where you could RIP out and show anybody.
• 1:29:18
  Yeah, it's it's just, it's quite interesting as well that they've
• 1:29:22
  they've gone for this character that's a wheelchair user as
• 1:29:24
  well. But I mean, obviously showing
• 1:29:28
  that something's happened to him when like during the Dalek
• 1:29:31
  invasion, but they're just desperately trying to get across
• 1:29:33
  London with him and a lesser, a lesser story, they would have
• 1:29:37
  left it behind. But, you know, it's they're all
• 1:29:41
  struggling to to. Survive the word you use there.
• 1:29:45
  There is a desperation to this, isn't there?
• 1:29:48
  Yeah, absolutely. And we said the Daleks by
• 1:29:52
  Parliament and stuff like it's all great, they're just running
• 1:29:54
  across a bridge and it's just. Empty.
• 1:29:57
  It's just vacant, isn't it? At 6:00 AM on a Sunday,
• 1:30:00
  apparently you can see bosses in some of the shots in the
• 1:30:03
  background, but and when they get when they got to Trafalgar
• 1:30:06
  Square, they had to move on. A lot of homeless people who
• 1:30:09
  were sleeping rough there. Those bosses, that was the
• 1:30:12
  Daleks that were conserving a bit of energy, you know?
• 1:30:15
  Yeah. They're just taking the bus.
• 1:30:17
  I mean, who hasn't gone? And also and, you know, played
• 1:30:21
  out these seats because I'll certainly have.
• 1:30:25
  Is it just me? Sorry, and the music here, well,
• 1:30:31
  there's there's there's like that crazy militaristic drum
• 1:30:34
  beat playing. Yeah, and the little Dalek marks
• 1:30:38
  as well on the on the the lions there, it's all and how fast are
• 1:30:42
  they going with that? Yeah, I know.
• 1:30:44
  And there's like a pace to this you don't normally have in 60s
• 1:30:48
  Doctor Who. Well, I mean, they're just.
• 1:30:51
  Look. All this running, it's like they
• 1:30:53
  don't have time to build up this speed in the in the studio
• 1:30:55
  before they bump into a wall. I I think that there, we just
• 1:30:59
  saw our first high angle camera shot there looking up at the
• 1:31:02
  three of them. Yeah.
• 1:31:04
  Oh, I mean that that is a Daleks.
• 1:31:06
  Can you see that Daleks salute the Nazi salute they're doing
• 1:31:08
  with their plungers? Yeah, why are their plungers so
• 1:31:12
  long in this story? It's a very nice.
• 1:31:15
  Question you don't mind me saying?
• 1:31:19
  Yeah, the. Daleks have got their extra long
• 1:31:21
  plunges out. No one's ever asked me that, you
• 1:31:24
  know that. Sure, though there that low
• 1:31:28
  angle shot of the Daleks coming towards the edge of the steps,
• 1:31:32
  That's beautiful. That's great.
• 1:31:34
  There's just a a cleanness about film camera work, isn't there?
• 1:31:40
  Yeah, it's a shame we haven't got more Doctor Who all shot on
• 1:31:44
  film from this era. I do think that sometimes that's
• 1:31:47
  what why Doctor Who has a bit more of a bad Rep of being a bit
• 1:31:51
  hokey and say Star Trek Original Star Trek and stuff like that
• 1:31:55
  because. Just having that mixture of
• 1:31:56
  video and film. Yeah, well, just the videotape
• 1:32:00
  look aging worse than the film stuff, you know, like I was
• 1:32:04
  watching the Star Trek episode today and it it it was kind of
• 1:32:07
  the remastered version and the colours popped so much and like.
• 1:32:12
  I did trouble with tribbles the other day and I said on that
• 1:32:16
  this is so vibrant, you know. Yeah, it is.
• 1:32:19
  And it's just, it's such a shame that like, you can still see
• 1:32:23
  those things being repeated almost.
• 1:32:26
  I mean, they were still on terrestrial television like in
• 1:32:28
  the 90s and the early 90s, whereas Doctor Who repeats
• 1:32:31
  really struggled, I think, to ever really gain any traction
• 1:32:35
  past the sort of early 90s. And I think it is that the fact
• 1:32:38
  that they're all shot on videotape, people just don't
• 1:32:41
  respond to it, unfortunately. You.
• 1:32:44
  Are headaches tales of like trying to explain to his mother
• 1:32:48
  that that's video and that's film issues?
• 1:32:51
  Just actually, will you just eat your tea, please?
• 1:32:56
  These vetoed signs that the rebels use, they're quite
• 1:33:00
  interesting. I've actually got, courtesy of
• 1:33:03
  Clayton Hickman's Red Bubble, some coasters in the living room
• 1:33:06
  that have got the vetoed sign on them, and this one that I've
• 1:33:11
  slipped past. My girlfriend, she doesn't
• 1:33:12
  realize it's a Doctor Who reference.
• 1:33:14
  Oh, Rick, do you have to do that then?
• 1:33:16
  Do you have to? No, no, it's she's actually
• 1:33:19
  fairly good, but she's fairly tolerant of me.
• 1:33:23
  There's two Doctor Who fans in this house.
• 1:33:25
  You can't walk anywhere in this house about realizing there's
• 1:33:28
  two Doctor Who. There's bloody Daleks Invasion
• 1:33:31
  of poster in the toilet for God's sake.
• 1:33:34
  One thing that I know she wasn't when we moved in together.
• 1:33:38
  I own the original painting of the book cover of Shakedown.
• 1:33:43
  And I was like, that's going in the living room.
• 1:33:45
  It's it's not going in the office.
• 1:33:47
  And she was like, OK, cool. It looks quite art Deco and
• 1:33:49
  sort. Of you've got to be quite
• 1:33:53
  careful what you choose, you know?
• 1:33:57
  But if I ever get my. That with two blokes living
• 1:34:00
  together, is that, you know, sometimes you share an underwear
• 1:34:02
  drawer. But I say, look, those Tom Baker
• 1:34:04
  underpants are right. They're mine.
• 1:34:05
  If you touch them, sorry. You're correct, I was just.
• 1:34:11
  Eventually one day when I get my full-sized Dalek, though, we'll
• 1:34:14
  have to live in the living room, so you.
• 1:34:17
  Know you spend that much money, you want it on show.
• 1:34:19
  You know, I'm not hiding that in the garage.
• 1:34:25
  You know the the poster at the beginning is forbidden to dump
• 1:34:28
  bodies in the forbidden planet in London the other day, right?
• 1:34:32
  And I've got that on a T-shirt. And I thought to myself, if you
• 1:34:36
  wear that and you're not around Doctor Who facts, people will be
• 1:34:39
  very confused. Yeah, it's a good T-shirt though
• 1:34:44
  Yeah, I can see why that would confuse people.
• 1:34:47
  It's. In the movie, I think the bit
• 1:34:53
  where Dortmund is killed is really horrible.
• 1:34:57
  He gets out, doesn't he? And and it's fire extinguishers
• 1:35:01
  going a bit crazy and there's like bricks everywhere.
• 1:35:05
  And he kind of like throws his wheel of his wheelchair, doesn't
• 1:35:08
  it? It sort of spins.
• 1:35:09
  Yeah, it's, it's really, really savage here.
• 1:35:13
  It's a bit more like of the Daleks facing off with this guy
• 1:35:17
  and I don't do we even get the effect or is it and his bomb
• 1:35:21
  just sort of smokes away and it's like, oh, at least at least
• 1:35:24
  give him like a bomb that kills one of the Daleks or something.
• 1:35:27
  But it wasn't to be. I mean, even Sodo, it is kind of
• 1:35:32
  pushing home the idea that nobody is safe because you kind
• 1:35:36
  of think, well, he's more regular, so he's going to be all
• 1:35:38
  right. Yeah, oh, we do get an
• 1:35:40
  extermination effect there, but wasn't the most convincing fall
• 1:35:43
  to the ground. You know, I think there is one
• 1:35:46
  sequence in this TV version, though, which actually might
• 1:35:50
  surpass the movie, and that's when Barbara's in the car and
• 1:35:55
  she's smashing through all that bit.
• 1:35:59
  Yeah, it's it's very cool. I think we we have to wait for
• 1:36:02
  next week for that, but it is a really.
• 1:36:04
  Oh, and there's the bloody Dalek talking to the mannequin.
• 1:36:07
  I just I just. It's yeah, it's strange, isn't
• 1:36:10
  it? Yeah, it's very odd because all
• 1:36:13
  the time they've been on this planet, but even just like how
• 1:36:16
  the Dalits work, they must be able to distinguish between like
• 1:36:19
  living matter and plastic. He's.
• 1:36:24
  Got scratching your head and going well how the fuck did they
• 1:36:26
  invade this planet? Oh no heart No, he's here look,
• 1:36:30
  he's been out for long. He's.
• 1:36:32
  Just shown up, yeah. Do you know?
• 1:36:35
  I will say though, I always miss him whenever he ducks out for an
• 1:36:37
  episode. Me too him, him and Ian as well.
• 1:36:40
  Like if Ian ducks out, so I'm like, oh, we're really missing
• 1:36:44
  like a key element I. Was about to say and Jacqueline
• 1:36:47
  Hill. So basically just not carrying
• 1:36:48
  that Ford. She's basically poor old, poor
• 1:36:52
  old season. I do like like I love her in the
• 1:36:57
  first episode, and I think she gets bits of good stuff in the
• 1:37:00
  Sensorites, but generally she's just a bit of a shrieking
• 1:37:03
  violence, isn't she? I don't mind parts of Marco Polo
• 1:37:06
  as well. That friendship she has, that's
• 1:37:09
  quite nice too. Yeah.
• 1:37:11
  It's just when they they make her that Perils of Pauline sort
• 1:37:14
  of squid and it's. It wouldn't matter so much if
• 1:37:19
  she had some redeeming moments, but it's like they just never
• 1:37:22
  give her anything decent to do. Like it's it almost meant you go
• 1:37:27
  why would she want to travel with the Doctor?
• 1:37:30
  Like what? And she's always going, oh,
• 1:37:32
  we'll get back to the ship, you know, then Vicky.
• 1:37:35
  And in the Romans episode 1, do you remember the bit where where
• 1:37:38
  he's like, we're going to Rome and she just goes, you know, And
• 1:37:42
  I was like, that's what you want to see?
• 1:37:43
  She's so excited. It's exactly that.
• 1:37:45
  It's like, why does Susan ever leave the ship?
• 1:37:49
  She just wants to get back. There I answer that question
• 1:37:51
  about Tegan and Perry quite a lot as well, you know.
• 1:37:53
  Yeah, you really need your companions to want to be there
• 1:37:57
  and be having a good time. And it does.
• 1:38:00
  In the 80s, it feels like for about four years, nobody wants
• 1:38:04
  to be in that TARDIS at all. And you're like, I can see why
• 1:38:07
  it drove some people away. That bit in power the Doctor
• 1:38:12
  went to, he can go said yes, I would like to go into the
• 1:38:15
  TARDIS. I was like, God, he wrote that
• 1:38:17
  in because that's all she bloody wanted to do in the 80s.
• 1:38:19
  I don't know, honestly. Hartnell has a line in this,
• 1:38:24
  though. It's beautifully judged as well
• 1:38:28
  because it means it's setting up the fact that he knows that
• 1:38:31
  there's some chemistry between where he says, oh, I can see
• 1:38:35
  something's cooking. He says when they're making the
• 1:38:38
  fish, it's and he plays it really warm and it's a really
• 1:38:41
  nice scene. Are we to come down the ramp?
• 1:38:44
  Here we go, my favorite. There's a fabulous story, you
• 1:38:50
  know, of Nick Evans, who is the campus contributor to any Doctor
• 1:38:54
  Who documentary. And he's campus Christmas and he
• 1:38:57
  goes, I have this call from from Dickie Martin saying, you know,
• 1:39:01
  please come over to Doctor Who and do 6th episode.
• 1:39:03
  And he's like, oh, all right, Dickie.
• 1:39:04
  Well, I don't know what a Dalek is, but I'll, I'll be very happy
• 1:39:07
  to come and do some acting for you.
• 1:39:09
  And then he was presented with the shell and was like, it was
• 1:39:13
  quite taken aback. Have you ever seen the Jack Pitt
• 1:39:17
  Myth Makers? Do you know who Jack Pitt is?
• 1:39:20
  I've heard the name, but no I haven't.
• 1:39:24
  So Jack Pitt was like a zombie and a couple of other like tiny
• 1:39:26
  little bit parts, but the reason why it's so good is because he's
• 1:39:30
  a very bitchy camp individual. And he?
• 1:39:34
  He used to live to share digs, act as digs with William
• 1:39:38
  Hartnell during the shooting of Doctor Who and he's got some
• 1:39:41
  right old stories of them just getting like William Hartnell
• 1:39:44
  hard drinker and like getting into fights with people and pubs
• 1:39:47
  and things like that. It's one of the most fantastic
• 1:39:50
  myth makers and well worth, well worth tracking down.
• 1:39:54
  I cannot see. Prime.
• 1:39:55
  There's a lot of those myth makers are on prime now.
• 1:39:58
  I think it it may very well. It's on one of it's either on
• 1:40:02
  Prime or Brit Box. Yeah, I think it's a one if you
• 1:40:05
  can track it down, honestly, it's one of, it's one of the
• 1:40:09
  ones that you're just like. Nobody really knows who this guy
• 1:40:13
  is, and they just caught him a few years before his death and
• 1:40:15
  just got all these fantastic stories.
• 1:40:18
  And yeah, I mean, William Hartnell doesn't sound like a he
• 1:40:21
  doesn't come across as a great. Guy in it.
• 1:40:23
  Terror, doesn't he? Yeah.
• 1:40:26
  This is a weird choice now with the ticking bomb and every tick
• 1:40:30
  the camera zooms in. That is a lazy director.
• 1:40:41
  It's like something out of like the 60s Batman, but in 60s
• 1:40:45
  Batman. They're sort of taking the piss
• 1:40:47
  a bit. But that was like his serious
• 1:40:49
  directorial choice to just keep punching in and punching in.
• 1:40:52
  Come rain or shine though, you are going to have a bomb or a
• 1:40:55
  ticking clock in a Terry Nation storm.
• 1:40:58
  It happens at the end of the Daleks.
• 1:41:00
  You got the time destructor in the Daleks master plan.
• 1:41:03
  I think there's bombs being handed about in a planet of the
• 1:41:06
  Daleks. They look a bit like T Chase.
• 1:41:11
  Is there? Is there a bomb in the Chase?
• 1:41:15
  I don't think. There is, there is.
• 1:41:16
  You know, he's playing against type.
• 1:41:18
  He can be. He was.
• 1:41:19
  Having an off day. Many people would say that about
• 1:41:23
  the chase. You know, I don't agree, but I
• 1:41:25
  think. It's a hoot.
• 1:41:27
  OK, well, to bring today's recording to a climax, I'm going
• 1:41:32
  to head back to Twitter again to see what people would like to,
• 1:41:38
  and I'm going to try and find an intellectual question.
• 1:41:39
  I found, like everyone I threw at you in episode 2 was from the
• 1:41:44
  comedians of the tweet world. OK Rod, who asks, was this a
• 1:41:51
  fundamental shift in the show? The first returning monster,
• 1:41:55
  first invasion of the Earth, first proper action sequences,
• 1:41:59
  first companion departure? How far did this influence what
• 1:42:02
  was to come? Yeah, I think it's kind of what
• 1:42:06
  we're saying about the Doctor becoming a hero earlier as well.
• 1:42:08
  It's like all of a sudden it's and its feet is the Doctor's an
• 1:42:12
  action hero and has got like a mortal enemy essentially like
• 1:42:17
  this. You couldn't imagine the Vorde
• 1:42:20
  coming back or they weren't going to revisit to Toxel.
• 1:42:23
  You know, it's but the Daleks are obviously this this great
• 1:42:26
  hit to start off. And yeah, I think this is really
• 1:42:29
  the beginning of like Doctor Who was a sort of sci-fi action
• 1:42:32
  adventure series on a Saturday night.
• 1:42:34
  So yeah, I think this is this is almost the template.
• 1:42:37
  For the Vorde invasion of Earth, all right.
• 1:42:42
  Me too, me too, but. Oh, aren't they terrible?
• 1:42:45
  Yes, I am, Arbitan. What do you mean?
• 1:42:49
  I'm wearing that bloke, aren't I?
• 1:42:52
  Why is your head so massive all of a sudden?
• 1:42:54
  Arbitan, Oh. It's awful, isn't it?
• 1:42:58
  OK, great. Hogben asks.
• 1:43:01
  Oh, I met him the other day, you know, he's very charming man.
• 1:43:04
  Have the Daleks killed all of the attractive men in their
• 1:43:07
  future as part of their plan? Main question.
• 1:43:13
  I mean, there aren't a lot of lookers in the Daleks of Age of
• 1:43:18
  Earth, but then I don't know whether I'd be looking my best
• 1:43:20
  if I'd been subjugated by the Daleks for for for many years.
• 1:43:24
  So there aren't really very many hot men.
• 1:43:26
  I don't really have as many hot women, to be honest.
• 1:43:28
  It's a very there aren't many people of colour either.
• 1:43:32
  Well, that's not unusual in 60s Doctor Who.
• 1:43:35
  No, very true. But yeah, no, there aren't any
• 1:43:37
  hot men in in the future, unfortunately so.
• 1:43:40
  In the movie they bring in Oh, what's the fella's name?
• 1:43:43
  He plays David. He's quite well known actor,
• 1:43:46
  isn't he? Yeah, but he's quite handsome.
• 1:43:48
  In in the trailer it says they say his name and he's like the
• 1:43:52
  the man with the look who doesn't find like so easy in the
• 1:43:56
  year 2150 AD. But but it's good that they
• 1:44:00
  didn't try and marry off Susan to him in the the film version
• 1:44:04
  with her being 12 or whatever. That would have been very
• 1:44:07
  awkward. Yes.
• 1:44:09
  Oh, Joe. I love Roberta, Toby, Susan.
• 1:44:12
  Oh, me too. Bring her into the main series
• 1:44:14
  and forget about this. Fabulous.
• 1:44:17
  Or in our, in our reboot of Doctor Who, you know, we'll have
• 1:44:20
  to revisit Roberta, Toby, you know, older Susan.
• 1:44:24
  She is now. Chris also asked if the Daleks
• 1:44:27
  chose that complicated escape room puzzle to help decide on
• 1:44:30
  Robomen, why does everyone in the cell get converted, not just
• 1:44:34
  the one who solved it? Maybe they didn't see exactly
• 1:44:37
  what was going on and they thought it was a group effort.
• 1:44:41
  That's a Good Hope. Yeah, that's all I got.
• 1:44:45
  The glorious Daniel Knight asks why does the Dalek at the start
• 1:44:49
  of the episode at the start of episode 2 sound like Henry Crumb
• 1:44:53
  from the goons? I mean, they just, they often
• 1:44:58
  sound like a bunch of Campbell men, don't they?
• 1:45:00
  The Daleks. And so they should.
• 1:45:03
  They should indeed. OK, I think I do.
• 1:45:05
  One more hit David Campbell dump Susan the minute the TARDIS
• 1:45:11
  left. I imagine imagine, you know,
• 1:45:18
  it's a bit of a kind of assumption that you you're going
• 1:45:21
  to stay in this time and be with that person forever, you know,
• 1:45:23
  like they haven't been on a first date and also dating will
• 1:45:27
  be rubbish in that future. There's no restaurants, there's
• 1:45:30
  no bars like like where you going?
• 1:45:31
  It's like, oh, we're going to cook a fish on a clip again.
• 1:45:34
  And then they do some interesting stuff, don't they,
• 1:45:37
  with in extended media? Like, is it War of the Daleks if
• 1:45:41
  you're never read that? Yeah, that's that's here, isn't
• 1:45:46
  it? Yeah, and Susan talks about I
• 1:45:50
  think David's long dead because she's a Time Lord, obviously,
• 1:45:54
  and she's outlived him. And she said she had to start
• 1:45:58
  wearing prosthetics of to make her look aged because she just
• 1:46:02
  wasn't aging. It's, I mean, it's a load of old
• 1:46:05
  fan wank, but I mean. It's John Peel, of course it is.
• 1:46:11
  OK, well look. Lucy Mccall's asking 2 Susan
• 1:46:13
  related questions. One, did Susan find some more
• 1:46:17
  robust footwear? She must have done.
• 1:46:21
  The Rebels would have had robust footwear like left, right and
• 1:46:23
  centre right. That's the main part of being a.
• 1:46:25
  Robot man? Probably, yeah.
• 1:46:28
  And when Susan gets a wet fish in the face, why doesn't she
• 1:46:32
  just need a prospective lover in the groin?
• 1:46:36
  I mean she should do, but it was the 60s and you know, women were
• 1:46:40
  pissed around the face with a fish all the time apparently.
• 1:46:43
  And she actually finally asked a very serious question, which is
• 1:46:46
  following on from that. There's been some debate over
• 1:46:48
  whether the Doctor would have abandoned a grandson just as he
• 1:46:52
  did Susan. I'm inclined to think that he
• 1:46:54
  would have possibly sooner. Any thoughts?
• 1:46:58
  And that's interesting. I've never really considered
• 1:47:00
  that because you just don't think of the doctor having a
• 1:47:02
  grandson. I mean, I think it depends on
• 1:47:05
  the relationship, but I think he probably would have.
• 1:47:08
  But then would the grandson have been the shrieking Susan that
• 1:47:12
  that we have? Probably not.
• 1:47:14
  No. No, but then you, you wouldn't,
• 1:47:17
  you wouldn't have had needs for an Ian character, would you?
• 1:47:20
  That's true. I mean, they've kind of
• 1:47:21
  positioned those three really well, haven't they?
• 1:47:23
  So they're all doing different things plot wise.
• 1:47:27
  I'd never thought about it, but yeah, no, maybe he, maybe the
• 1:47:32
  doctor's grandson might have got a slightly more heroic exit and
• 1:47:35
  probably wouldn't have been abandoned because your male
• 1:47:38
  characters didn't get married off in the 60s and 70s, did
• 1:47:41
  they? Generally not, no.
• 1:47:44
  All went off. So you said earlier about Susan
• 1:47:47
  in the first episode. You're gone with that sort of
• 1:47:49
  really exotic, weird, little bit sexy Susan.
• 1:47:54
  It's so interesting, wouldn't it?
• 1:47:56
  It would and but she just like by the second episode even she's
• 1:48:00
  just crying and screaming all the time.
• 1:48:03
  Like that's where the cliche of the screaming Doctor Who girl
• 1:48:06
  comes from. I think a lot of it is in that
• 1:48:07
  first season with Susan. But yeah, it would have been a
• 1:48:10
  much more interesting. I mean, she famously said she
• 1:48:13
  thought she was signing up to play like an Avengers girl, like
• 1:48:15
  a on a block and sort of character.
• 1:48:18
  And here she is just crying and screaming.
• 1:48:22
  You've signed up for this many episodes.
• 1:48:23
  Do you want another contract? No way.
• 1:48:28
  No, there's more of this. Anyway.
• 1:48:29
  What's the next episode called? It's called The End of Tomorrow,
• 1:48:34
  which is a Terry Nation classic title.
• 1:48:36
  I think I. Would say, well something about
• 1:48:38
  absolute bollocks. I don't know what the hell is
• 1:48:40
  the Coronas of the Sun all about or.
• 1:48:42
  Or as we have coming up at some point, the waking ally, we don't
• 1:48:47
  know who that is. Well, maybe we'll discover it's
• 1:48:50
  the Sliver. Of course, of course.
• 1:48:54
  He was a good nobody could understand what he was saying.
• 1:48:57
  He was just saying, oi, the Daleks have been did keep me
• 1:48:59
  prisoner as well. He.
• 1:49:01
  Just wanted a hug. Well, we're going to take a
• 1:49:05
  little break between Oh my God, I have someone 3:00 and 4:00,
• 1:49:09
  thank you, between 3:00 and 4:00, but we'll be back soon.
• 1:49:14
  And I. Can wait.
• 1:49:14
  Great fun. None
• 1:49:51
  hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker.
• 1:49:57
  Okey dokey, cool. Hello and welcome back to
• 1:50:01
  Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, a Doctor Who commentary podcast.
• 1:50:05
  I am Dylan and I'm joined by the regular host.
• 1:50:09
  Joe, hello. Hi.
• 1:50:12
  Hello, how are we? We're back again.
• 1:50:14
  Very pleased to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
• 1:50:16
  On Oh yeah, Thanks for coming on your own podcast.
• 1:50:18
  It's really nice to have you, Ellen.
• 1:50:21
  How was your Christmas? Oh, Christmas, you know, it was
• 1:50:23
  a lot of eating, a lot of drinking, a lot of sitting down
• 1:50:26
  in the in the lounge, not really doing a lot.
• 1:50:29
  Put on about 45 stones, you know, you can't go up the stairs
• 1:50:33
  anymore. But apart from that, fine do.
• 1:50:34
  You die every January like me. I die January to November with
• 1:50:40
  blips in the middle. What?
• 1:50:42
  Right. One year.
• 1:50:43
  Oh, sorry, we're here to talk about dark Invasion of Earth.
• 1:50:45
  Just to say we're at episode 4 and we've had about a month and
• 1:50:49
  a half break since. Just so you're all in the loop.
• 1:50:53
  OK, All right, let's just continue our conversation now.
• 1:50:56
  One year, right? Oh, man, I was burned by Doctor
• 1:50:58
  Who at Christmas because the one thing I I can't bear, I don't
• 1:51:01
  collect any Doctor Who figures. Right?
• 1:51:03
  I've never touched that part of merchandise.
• 1:51:07
  And honestly, the show came back, didn't it?
• 1:51:09
  They had a figure of absolutely everybody.
• 1:51:11
  Oh, Grand Grandma Donnelly from the Idiot's Lantern.
• 1:51:15
  Well, every present I opened up was a Doctor Who figure of one
• 1:51:20
  kind or another. They all thought I was going to
• 1:51:21
  be delighted. I'm surrounded by all these
• 1:51:24
  ghoulish figures. What the hell am I going to do
• 1:51:26
  with this? Do you know, I had a similar
• 1:51:29
  thing when Doctor Who came back, whenever it was Christmas or my
• 1:51:32
  birthday, people would buy me any old ship with a logo on it,
• 1:51:36
  which is fine. And I just used to put it in a
• 1:51:38
  box under my bed. And then eventually I got to a
• 1:51:41
  point, I've got, I've got boxes of this stuff.
• 1:51:43
  I don't need it. I'm just going to take it to the
• 1:51:46
  charity shop. Took it to the charity shop,
• 1:51:48
  left it there, felt relieved. It was, you know, Doctor Who
• 1:51:51
  Adventures and Dalek cookie cutters and things like that and
• 1:51:54
  destroyed Cassandra and stuff like that.
• 1:51:56
  My God, that was the worst. Anyway, so I took it to the shop
• 1:52:01
  and a few days later my girlfriend at the time says why
• 1:52:05
  don't you come over, I've got a present for you.
• 1:52:07
  I was like, oh really? What?
• 1:52:09
  And I went round and she'd gone past a charity shop so all this
• 1:52:12
  stuff to stuff and brought it back.
• 1:52:14
  For me did. You tell her, yeah, I did.
• 1:52:17
  I was just like, I'm not going to believe this.
• 1:52:20
  There's a reason you've not seen me with this stuff.
• 1:52:21
  It's all been under the bed. For.
• 1:52:24
  Years. That's the saddest story
• 1:52:26
  featuring destroyed Cassandra. Fucking nerve of bringing out
• 1:52:30
  that frame and saying it's a character from book 20.
• 1:52:35
  That's genius. Well, since we did the first
• 1:52:39
  half of this, I've received the Blu-ray of scenes.
• 1:52:43
  I've got to say, they Polish up pretty well.
• 1:52:45
  They do. They do.
• 1:52:46
  I've kind of found a newfound respect when I went in for
• 1:52:49
  Episode 4, which we're about to do at the moment of just like,
• 1:52:52
  how sparkling and wonderful it looked.
• 1:52:54
  I may have even reappraised Richard Martin as the greatest
• 1:52:57
  Doctor Who director of all time. Or not.
• 1:53:00
  That is a hell of an epiphany, What you said in episodes one to
• 1:53:04
  three. Actually, do you know what we
• 1:53:05
  were? Small caveat we are.
• 1:53:08
  We have had about a six week break since recording episodes
• 1:53:12
  1:00 to 3:00, and we may repeat occasionally what we said
• 1:53:16
  before. I've heard, I've heard about
• 1:53:19
  what we said in the first half of this.
• 1:53:21
  Exactly. So you're going to just tell me
• 1:53:22
  to shut up if I start saying something I've said before?
• 1:53:25
  Never be so rude honestly. But man, that was a fantastic
• 1:53:32
  set. The extras are just getting
• 1:53:35
  better and better. Aren't they?
• 1:53:36
  They're wonderful. I was a bit, I was a bit sad to
• 1:53:38
  see William Russell, William Russell's interview.
• 1:53:41
  I mean, I know he's getting on a bit, but you know, it just, I
• 1:53:44
  think I said on the last one, it might have been a hard watch and
• 1:53:48
  it definitely was a hard watch. But you know, he seems very
• 1:53:50
  well. I, I didn't get through it all.
• 1:53:52
  I I, and I actually thought it was a little bit in bad taste
• 1:53:56
  putting it out because he clearly was being prompted and
• 1:54:00
  awful. There was less finding out
• 1:54:02
  anything and more can he actually have a conversation?
• 1:54:04
  And that's whereas the Moran O'Brien one I thought was, oh,
• 1:54:08
  brilliant, really revealing, you know?
• 1:54:11
  Yeah, exactly. It's just a bit of a shame that
• 1:54:13
  I mean, he's getting on. He's how old is he in 96?
• 1:54:16
  Something like that. If I'm in fine shape like that
• 1:54:19
  in 96 then I'll be quite happy. Yeah, me too, me too.
• 1:54:23
  But if anybody out there is really interested to see a
• 1:54:26
  visual interview with William Russell, I would recommend his
• 1:54:29
  Myth Makers, which is a real, it's, you know, him probably in
• 1:54:33
  his late 50s, early 60s, and it's a real insight into his
• 1:54:35
  Doctor Who career and his career up to that point.
• 1:54:38
  It's it's a lot of fun. To quickly again mention Maureen
• 1:54:43
  O'Brien, one of the small gifts I did get for Christmas was one
• 1:54:46
  of her novels. She does mention in the thing
• 1:54:49
  Dylan. I couldn't get past page three.
• 1:54:52
  The first scene featured a woman getting moist down below.
• 1:54:56
  You know, S up. It was absolutely.
• 1:55:00
  Boring. Going on, Vicky wrote this
• 1:55:05
  anyway. Yeah, I'll.
• 1:55:06
  Absolute filth. When I bring this out, I'll put
• 1:55:09
  a little still of what the book is in case anyone the regular
• 1:55:12
  audience to this thing are. You not going to do a reading of
• 1:55:16
  a couple of chapters and just tag it on the end?
• 1:55:18
  I don't think you could handle it mate.
• 1:55:21
  You might need a bit of alone time.
• 1:55:22
  On that note, should we head into episode 4 of Dalek Invasion
• 1:55:27
  of Earth? Yeah, let's do that.
• 1:55:30
  When you count us in. So in 54321.
• 1:55:38
  I actually do have a question for you straight away.
• 1:55:41
  To stimulate the conversation is the only way to learn, isn't it
• 1:55:46
  the Daleks? Yes.
• 1:55:49
  What was your first experience of the Daleks and did they like
• 1:55:52
  capture you straight away? So my very first experience of a
• 1:55:57
  Dalek was before I knew what Doctor Who was.
• 1:56:00
  And I, this is kind of like 1/2 memory that I don't know whether
• 1:56:04
  I remember it or I just remember my Nan telling me that we went
• 1:56:07
  to some sort of Fair somewhere and there was a full, there was
• 1:56:10
  a life-size Dalek somewhere in a Dalek there and I just ran away
• 1:56:14
  from it petrified. So that is my first experience
• 1:56:16
  of a Dalek, and I know it was before I'd ever seen Doctor Who,
• 1:56:20
  but but the first time I ever saw them would have been, I
• 1:56:24
  think it was Day of the Daleks on VHS.
• 1:56:27
  And I don't think I ever found them particularly threatening in
• 1:56:30
  that guise. I think when you get to the 80s
• 1:56:32
  stuff and like resurrection, I think I was, I think
• 1:56:35
  resurrection and remembrance, I probably found them a bit more
• 1:56:39
  Scary is the wrong word. It was this the the only Doctor
• 1:56:43
  Who I remember really being scared of was the hemophores
• 1:56:45
  when I was a kid in the Curse of Fenrick and the Destroyer in
• 1:56:49
  Battlefield. But no, I don't think I ever
• 1:56:52
  really. I don't think I ever really have
• 1:56:54
  the Dalek fear. You know who scared me most when
• 1:56:57
  I was a Nipa nurse? Lamont from Terror?
• 1:57:01
  The Zygoms. Oh yes.
• 1:57:02
  You remember fucking chilled by her scary eyes and that blood
• 1:57:07
  going down her arm. It was the time in mid 90s and
• 1:57:11
  bear in mind you've got Star Trek being churned out X-Files.
• 1:57:14
  All this really polished TV were awful.
• 1:57:16
  Resurrection of the Daleks, Revelation of the Daleks and
• 1:57:19
  Remembrance of the Dialects were the most exciting, stylish and
• 1:57:22
  polished television you ever. Possibly can.
• 1:57:24
  Because they are. They absolutely are.
• 1:57:27
  And so anyway, what's occurring in Dalek Invasion of Earth?
• 1:57:30
  Well, they're just pouring some acid onto a bomb now.
• 1:57:33
  A little bit of trivia here. When they're in the studio there
• 1:57:36
  with one version of the bomb and now they're outside, when the
• 1:57:40
  bombs dissolving, when they put because it's a polystyrene
• 1:57:42
  version that they're just pouring some something called
• 1:57:44
  that makes it dissolve. So it's cut.
• 1:57:46
  It's quite a complicated production, this one.
• 1:57:49
  But yeah, obviously the best way to stop a bomb is to pour acid
• 1:57:52
  on it, apparently. Not really heard that technique.
• 1:57:56
  I don't think. Any don't.
• 1:58:00
  Think any bomb disposal squad will ever tell you that that's
• 1:58:03
  the best way to get rid of it? You know, there's a quite a bit
• 1:58:06
  of tactile touching going on here between Susan and Alvin, so
• 1:58:09
  there might be something going on here.
• 1:58:11
  Yeah, there might be. I mean, I do think they, the
• 1:58:14
  script and the characters just about sell it.
• 1:58:17
  Although I'm not sure how I would have felt about being left
• 1:58:20
  with my first ever crush just in a time that I didn't know.
• 1:58:25
  Dumped on the planet? Yeah.
• 1:58:27
  May I suggest that you don't go and read John Peel's War of the
• 1:58:30
  Dalek? No, Hang on Legacy of the Dalek
• 1:58:33
  to see what occurred with Susan after this story.
• 1:58:36
  I vaguely remember it. Pretty terrible.
• 1:58:39
  Yeah. Haven't they done a big finish
• 1:58:41
  audio as well? So after this.
• 1:58:43
  Yeah, they've done one, I think it's called like after the
• 1:58:45
  Daleks or something like that, which, you know, I'll be quite
• 1:58:50
  interested to hear it. I'm sure they've done it with a
• 1:58:51
  little bit more tact than old John Peel, who never does
• 1:58:55
  anything with much tact I don't think.
• 1:58:58
  No, although didn't he write the Edge of Destruction
• 1:59:00
  novelization? Did he?
• 1:59:03
  And maybe he did, yeah. That's Nigel Robinson, yeah.
• 1:59:05
  Yeah, there we go. There we go.
• 1:59:07
  Completely, John Peel wrote. Master plan, right?
• 1:59:10
  That's right in two parts, yeah. One thing we did say in the
• 1:59:15
  first half was how nice it was that each of the regulars had
• 1:59:19
  their own sort of contemporary character and storyline going
• 1:59:24
  on. I think it does have a bit of
• 1:59:26
  pace. So we get to go from Barbara and
• 1:59:28
  Jenny, Susan and David, Ian and I don't know, the fellow at the
• 1:59:33
  mine, just. Happens.
• 1:59:35
  To be the fellow from Are you being served?
• 1:59:37
  Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, exactly.
• 1:59:39
  Do you know, I really, I think I ship Jenny and Barbara.
• 1:59:43
  I think there's like the, the anger, there's some real sort of
• 1:59:47
  sexual tension between them. So, and you know, it's 202150 or
• 1:59:51
  whatever. So Jenny's probably a very open
• 1:59:54
  woman, while Barbara from the 60s would be far too reserved
• 1:59:57
  for any of that business. We just cut away before all that
• 2:00:00
  stuff happens. Yeah, exactly.
• 2:00:02
  That's what they're doing now while the Ian is jumped out the
• 2:00:06
  spaceship. We go back to them, they look
• 2:00:08
  more knackered and. Now, this stuff here where
• 2:00:12
  they're kind of cutting between studio footage of Ian and you've
• 2:00:17
  got a Dalek that's just possibly got stopped on a bit of rubble
• 2:00:20
  there, but you've suddenly got all these extras being pulled
• 2:00:22
  along by pulling along this train and stuff like that.
• 2:00:27
  It's like, this is really epic stuff.
• 2:00:30
  This is the Doctor Who equivalent of Ben Hur.
• 2:00:32
  Yeah, look how many extra. You will never get this many
• 2:00:35
  extras usually. But they've got the camera on
• 2:00:37
  top of the and like I so I think last time I said how white
• 2:00:42
  everybody was, but apparently they did try and get kind of
• 2:00:46
  multi multi ethnicities for the extras and they just couldn't
• 2:00:49
  find anybody in in the biz at that point.
• 2:00:51
  Apparently I don't want. To say anything in politics.
• 2:00:53
  But you know, they're all slaves, so of course they try.
• 2:00:59
  But you're right again. Richard Martin is directing the
• 2:01:03
  hell out of it on like. It looks fantastic, like they've
• 2:01:08
  got all those skinny old men at the backs.
• 2:01:10
  It looks. They look like they've been worn
• 2:01:11
  away from being in this mine for a long time and.
• 2:01:14
  I think as well that cut between studio and location is less
• 2:01:18
  obvious than it is in some. Productions now is is this
• 2:01:21
  because we because it's been cleaned up or if we've been
• 2:01:26
  watching the DVD version, what we know it's like it's it's
• 2:01:29
  really like I just sitting down to watch episode 3 on the
• 2:01:33
  restored thing. I was like, this is a much
• 2:01:35
  smoother production, but is is a lot of that restoration?
• 2:01:38
  I don't know. I know they've made some tweaks
• 2:01:41
  occasionally because I remember in the Chase they made some,
• 2:01:43
  there's a scene on Iridius where it goes from day to night, and
• 2:01:46
  they did some tweaking with the to make it less obvious that it
• 2:01:49
  was a lie going off and things like that.
• 2:01:54
  This, this stuff or the stuff we've just seen, which is
• 2:01:56
  clearly stock footage of cable cars and mines and stuff like
• 2:02:00
  that, that nobody knows where that footage is from.
• 2:02:02
  They know it's stock footage, but no one's ever been able to
• 2:02:05
  to to source it. So in theory they could get sued
• 2:02:07
  for using it at any point, but they won't.
• 2:02:09
  I bet you someone somewhere out there has done a montage of
• 2:02:13
  every bit of stock footage ever in Doctor Who.
• 2:02:16
  It would be that that volcano from the Inferno credits going
• 2:02:19
  over that space rocket that goes up every now and again like in
• 2:02:23
  the Android invasion as you know.
• 2:02:25
  Things like that. But you know, it has a bit of
• 2:02:28
  context. You know those buildings that
• 2:02:30
  fall down in enemy in the world when the they use that a couple
• 2:02:33
  of times as well, you know. No, me neither.
• 2:02:37
  It helps us with this old TV. It's about what helps sell the
• 2:02:41
  story, not necessarily what is the most realistic, like bit of
• 2:02:45
  footage or effect that they can get.
• 2:02:46
  So it doesn't bother me. It's just it's like in theatre
• 2:02:49
  where you cut to a bit of stock footage and stuff like that.
• 2:02:52
  It's just selling, selling the story.
• 2:02:55
  And I think as well in a season where there are, they're trying
• 2:02:58
  to do some pretty epic stuff, the web planet, you know, the
• 2:03:00
  chase, they may not succeed, but they are trying some ambitious
• 2:03:04
  stuff. I think sort of visually in
• 2:03:06
  terms of location work and sets, this is the most successful that
• 2:03:09
  they do they they a vast amount of ground sort of geographically
• 2:03:14
  with lots of different sets and lots of different location work.
• 2:03:17
  And if you can imagine just looking at this episode, it's a
• 2:03:20
  tiny, they've got this tiny studio and we're seeing a corner
• 2:03:24
  of kind of the spaceship and then we're seeing that what is
• 2:03:29
  the garage or the transport museum, wherever it is and, and
• 2:03:32
  then a bit of a sewer, I think it is.
• 2:03:34
  And then trying to make so that together with location work and
• 2:03:38
  stop footage is just like, you can imagine how small that
• 2:03:40
  studio was and thinking we've got room for four sets.
• 2:03:43
  How do we make this damn thing? Work enough to convince you you
• 2:03:46
  know it is. It is.
• 2:03:49
  And then you throw in actors giving this a bit of Willy and
• 2:03:53
  to you that this stuff is going on.
• 2:03:56
  I'm sold. Unfortunately, like we said
• 2:03:58
  before, the camera is very often over the action and things like
• 2:04:00
  that. So you've got to try and squint
• 2:04:02
  to see what's going on. Yeah, but everybody here is
• 2:04:04
  selling, selling it because none of them is giving a heart.
• 2:04:08
  You know, when you get to things like the Space Museum, perhaps
• 2:04:10
  in Galaxy 4, you're a bit like some of these people are giving
• 2:04:12
  it their all, and perhaps some of them are.
• 2:04:15
  Yeah, the regular. The regulars are giving it their
• 2:04:18
  all in this, yeah. That's it.
• 2:04:21
  Do you know, I do get distracted sometimes when somebody I
• 2:04:24
  recognize from and so vividly from another is in Doctor Who.
• 2:04:30
  That's Mr. Rumble. That's how Jug he is from.
• 2:04:33
  Grace Brown. I know, I know.
• 2:04:35
  The thing is, even as a kid, like watching this on the VHS
• 2:04:39
  for the first time, I was like, he's from something else.
• 2:04:42
  Like, but it's it's when you see like a comedy actor out of
• 2:04:46
  sorts, you know, you see William Russell in something else.
• 2:04:49
  You just go, well, he was the leading young man at the time,
• 2:04:52
  but this is like you. You don't belong in the show.
• 2:04:56
  You. You.
• 2:04:57
  You're are you being served, don't you it?
• 2:04:58
  Would be like, I don't imagine Molly Sudburn turning up as
• 2:05:00
  Jenny. You know, the grown up.
• 2:05:02
  It would be very straight. Do you know what these sequences
• 2:05:05
  though in dark invasion of a 2150 AD with Ashton the black
• 2:05:09
  marketeer then favorite. But it's Philip Maddock, isn't
• 2:05:13
  it, in the movie? It is.
• 2:05:14
  It is. Do you know?
• 2:05:15
  I remember when I first saw this version, I honestly I remember
• 2:05:20
  the quality being so bad at the video that I just thought it was
• 2:05:22
  Philip Maddock again and he was the only cast member they they
• 2:05:25
  they carried over. But of course it's not.
• 2:05:29
  Terrible coffee. Honestly, I had a few copies
• 2:05:33
  like that. You know, I used to have a dodgy
• 2:05:35
  dealer up in Scotland. I'll send him £20 in a post and
• 2:05:39
  the VHS would turn up with all 7 episodes of Doctor Who and the
• 2:05:41
  Silurians. Do you know what I I had a few
• 2:05:45
  people like that and over lockdown I digitized all my old
• 2:05:49
  tapes, including some terrible, terrible, like 7th generation
• 2:05:54
  Doctor Who videos. And while I didn't watch them,
• 2:05:56
  it was quite funny to skip through them and just go like,
• 2:05:59
  you can't, it looks like a snowstorm.
• 2:06:01
  You can't tell what's going on in any of them.
• 2:06:03
  But. Can I just say right the scenes
• 2:06:07
  here between Barbara and Jenny are acing the Bechdel test?
• 2:06:13
  Yeah, Yeah, they are. In the 60s now, I'm telling you
• 2:06:15
  now, there's many a Hinchcliffe story.
• 2:06:18
  In the 70s. I was that miserably.
• 2:06:22
  Absolutely. And this look, this shot here of
• 2:06:25
  just Jenny popping out and seeing the the dead Dortmund
• 2:06:28
  lying in the road like again, Richard Martin is firing on all
• 2:06:33
  cylinders in this episode. It feels like he's taking him
• 2:06:35
  three episodes to bed in. But is this?
• 2:06:38
  The bit in a minute where we get the crocodile down in the sewer.
• 2:06:41
  Yeah, this, this. It's really tight.
• 2:06:45
  The tiniest crocodile you could possibly imagine.
• 2:06:48
  Is that footage? I think, yeah, it was a film
• 2:06:51
  insert, so which I assume was stock footage, yeah.
• 2:06:55
  But I like it in terms of, well, building that all the creatures
• 2:06:58
  have gone down into the sewers. Yeah, I mean, it's it's very
• 2:07:01
  Terry Nation survivors. You know, you've got plague and
• 2:07:04
  scavengers and black market traders and creatures in the
• 2:07:07
  sewers. Like he revisits these ideas
• 2:07:10
  later on. Terry Nation is a sort of damn
• 2:07:12
  dare write out. I think he's got a black heart
• 2:07:14
  when it comes to getting out his pen and writing.
• 2:07:16
  Doctor Who. He does some pretty dark stuff.
• 2:07:19
  He does, He does. I think, you know, if you remade
• 2:07:22
  this now, it would be a very dark, dark story.
• 2:07:25
  And I think still think it's dark for the time, but I just
• 2:07:28
  think people often confuse how something is delivered with the
• 2:07:32
  intention of what the original script might have been like.
• 2:07:36
  I mean, Paradise Towers, God bless it, I love it.
• 2:07:38
  But you can also see a very dark version of that with exactly the
• 2:07:42
  same script and just a different director and different.
• 2:07:45
  Actors. He's only got to put on that
• 2:07:46
  David Snell score. Yeah.
• 2:07:48
  And I know it's all like the same overdone performances and
• 2:07:51
  things like that, but it you you're sort of halfway there to
• 2:07:54
  that much darker version of that story.
• 2:07:56
  Absolutely. And then you lower the lighting
• 2:07:58
  a little bit and it just it becomes something else.
• 2:08:00
  You watched like, the first episode of Survivors and the
• 2:08:03
  first episode of Blake Seven? Yeah, that's about as bleak as
• 2:08:07
  TV gets. Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:08:09
  It's this is looking. Into that, isn't it that sort of
• 2:08:12
  fatalism? It is 100%.
• 2:08:15
  Now we get Fabs and Jenny on the right now.
• 2:08:18
  This is blissful, all of this stuff.
• 2:08:20
  It's fantastic. Now the tax disc on this
• 2:08:24
  vehicle, listeners, I don't know whether you spotted this says
• 2:08:27
  1965. Now we think this is set in
• 2:08:30
  2150, sixty something like that. So that vehicle's a couple 100
• 2:08:35
  years old. Well, it's in a museum.
• 2:08:38
  But I'm surprised it's still, I'm surprised it's still going.
• 2:08:42
  This looks incredibly good. The the shots through the window
• 2:08:46
  of the van going towards the Daleks.
• 2:08:49
  I mean, Barbara couldn't be any cooler.
• 2:08:51
  She's she's got a van and she just smashed for a bunch of
• 2:08:54
  Daleks. Yeah, she's the full action
• 2:08:55
  hero. It's fantastic.
• 2:08:57
  And then and I know like to us, you can see, oh, we're suddenly
• 2:09:01
  cut to we're in the studio and it's clearly not moving and it's
• 2:09:04
  the camera moving to the stunt version on location.
• 2:09:06
  But in 196465 it's 64, isn't it? It's 64 you.
• 2:09:11
  Remember, they're watching on those tiny little TV's, isn't?
• 2:09:13
  It no one would have noticed, this would have been the most
• 2:09:15
  epic thing they'd ever seen. Well, it did annoy me a little
• 2:09:19
  bit, you know, on that Series 2 Blu-ray, the behind the sofas,
• 2:09:24
  because I thought that actually they were not making any
• 2:09:27
  allowances at all for the fact that this was being made in the
• 2:09:31
  1960s. And yeah, T VS moved on a great
• 2:09:33
  deal since then. But actually, in the terms of
• 2:09:35
  the 1960s, this is really impressive.
• 2:09:38
  Yeah, it is. It is.
• 2:09:39
  And it's, I mean, it's very easy to poke fun, which we will and
• 2:09:43
  have done. And as if I'm cute, there's the
• 2:09:46
  saucer. But yeah, I do think you'd have
• 2:09:49
  to make allowances for it. But I do find on a lot those
• 2:09:52
  behind the sofa things, not only did they not make an allowance
• 2:09:55
  for, say, 60s effects, they also don't make allowance for modern
• 2:10:00
  stuff. It's like a lot of the 80s
• 2:10:02
  actors seem to be stuck in like this kind of limbo of like, oh,
• 2:10:06
  well, television now is weird. And it was very funny back in
• 2:10:08
  the day. And the 80s and 90s were the
• 2:10:10
  best time, which I'm not sure exactly rings true.
• 2:10:13
  But there's sort of like a, a weird sort of knowing mocking at
• 2:10:18
  it. Yeah.
• 2:10:19
  I don't know. It's, it seems a bit distasteful
• 2:10:21
  for me. Like you find people that are
• 2:10:23
  going to look at his strengths, you know, I love more and
• 2:10:26
  O'Brien sitting there watching it all laughing and read off
• 2:10:28
  saying isn't this wonderful, you know?
• 2:10:30
  My my favorite one, I think was probably watching Sasha Dewan
• 2:10:35
  watch Roche Delgado. That's amazing.
• 2:10:38
  Yeah. That's how you're supposed to
• 2:10:41
  play the Master, is it? Well, and if you're watching
• 2:10:44
  Para the Doctor, he brings it down a bit while he.
• 2:10:46
  Does he does and then who are the ones I I quite enjoyed Colin
• 2:10:52
  Baker watching season 24 as well.
• 2:10:55
  I thought that was because he watched.
• 2:10:56
  Paradise Towers, didn't he? It's like, I love to have been
• 2:10:58
  in this. Yeah, and you could see him in
• 2:11:00
  this, you could see Colin's coat, Colin and is in his all
• 2:11:04
  different guys is just chewing up that dialogue.
• 2:11:09
  Can I ask you who do you think is the most successful guest
• 2:11:13
  character in this, in terms of performance and in terms of
• 2:11:17
  writing? I, I mean, I don't think it's
• 2:11:20
  David as much as it should be. I think it's probably Jenny
• 2:11:23
  because you've got this. She's a victim of trauma from
• 2:11:26
  whatever's happened. Her family are probably dead.
• 2:11:29
  I think they might even say this and say in the early episodes.
• 2:11:31
  She's been through a hell of a lot and I think it's delivered
• 2:11:34
  well, it's written well. I think, you know, she's
• 2:11:36
  fantastic. What about you?
• 2:11:38
  I think, as ever, Bernard Kay is giving her performance above and
• 2:11:42
  beyond what is expected from a Doctor Who story.
• 2:11:45
  I think he does it in Colony in Space, he does it in the
• 2:11:47
  Faceless Ones, he does it in the Crusade later this year.
• 2:11:52
  And there is a proper sort of, well, weariness.
• 2:11:56
  Is it Tyler or Wyler? Which one's Wyler?
• 2:11:58
  That's 2150 AD, isn't it? Yeah, this is Tyler.
• 2:12:01
  Tyler Jenny's got our balaclava back on.
• 2:12:07
  Is that that's because she is? Did she dye her hair or
• 2:12:10
  something or? Something like that.
• 2:12:11
  I think that was, that was what they said.
• 2:12:13
  It's all very odd. And that's a backdrop there,
• 2:12:16
  isn't it? Look at.
• 2:12:18
  That look at that little post box that was in the corner when
• 2:12:22
  they they first came into shots. It's just everybody's proper
• 2:12:25
  thoughts about how they're going to try and make this huge story
• 2:12:29
  that's in a in a tiny space. Oh my God, look who it is, you
• 2:12:35
  know, can I? What a guy don't.
• 2:12:38
  Worry about the Sliver and is it Nick Evans who plays him?
• 2:12:42
  This fabulous camp bloke? He's on an interview on the DVD
• 2:12:46
  goes. So you know I was told by Dickie
• 2:12:50
  Martin come and do a bit of work.
• 2:12:51
  So they unveiled this Dalek thing and I had to play that for
• 2:12:55
  three episodes. They were like we've got a bit
• 2:12:56
  of extra work for you. So they unveiled the Sliver.
• 2:13:00
  Anyway, the press who are caught on Doctor Who at this point
• 2:13:03
  because it was so popular, the press turns up at his house and
• 2:13:06
  says can we interview you about the sliver?
• 2:13:09
  And he's like, wow, fucking anything about the Sliver.
• 2:13:12
  Like anyway, thought they're going to give me £50 come in.
• 2:13:15
  And he comes in and he feeds them all his bullshit about the
• 2:13:19
  sliver and has his picture taken and everything.
• 2:13:23
  I thought, oh, go on, Nick Evans, get a bit of money out.
• 2:13:26
  Amazing. You know, the the slither was
• 2:13:28
  conceived as a a floating black jellyfish, which is quite what
• 2:13:34
  we get. But it's do you know what I can
• 2:13:37
  never work out? You know they could.
• 2:13:39
  They can hear that screaming outside.
• 2:13:41
  That's sort of, yeah. Is it supposed to be the
• 2:13:45
  Slither, or is it supposed to be the Slither's victims?
• 2:13:48
  Never quite. I mean, it's Richard Martin, so
• 2:13:50
  we're never going to know, are we?
• 2:13:53
  That was a fantastic slither or slither victim impression that
• 2:13:56
  you did though. Yeah.
• 2:13:59
  Very. It's a bizarre noise, isn't it?
• 2:14:01
  Yeah, if Big Finish ever revived the Sliver, I'm sure because we
• 2:14:04
  have, actually. But.
• 2:14:07
  No, the Sliver has been in a big finisher.
• 2:14:09
  Yeah, it must. Be.
• 2:14:10
  You know there ain't one stone there and uncovered, have they?
• 2:14:14
  They've raped and pillaged the entirety of classic Doctor Who.
• 2:14:20
  Listen. They have, they have.
• 2:14:22
  So we've got our black market trader, not Philip Maddock,
• 2:14:25
  unfortunately. But this, this feels very
• 2:14:29
  termination as well, because in Survivors there's lots of
• 2:14:32
  characters like this that are exploiting the situation that,
• 2:14:35
  you know, 9/10 of the world population are out in Break 7
• 2:14:39
  you meet lots of sort of dodgy characters like this.
• 2:14:41
  Don't you like marketeers? And they're usually the most
• 2:14:44
  interesting characters. Absolutely.
• 2:14:47
  Patrick Troughton plays a sort of a nice black market trader in
• 2:14:51
  one of the episodes of Survivors, but he I think he's
• 2:14:55
  killed in like literally in the 1st 1015 minutes.
• 2:14:58
  Something like that was a shame, but.
• 2:15:00
  And he's not. Ashton's not really around long
• 2:15:03
  enough to make much of an impact here.
• 2:15:05
  No he doesn't get blown up though like in the other one I
• 2:15:08
  think. Does he get exterminated?
• 2:15:10
  I can't remember. But it it just adds another
• 2:15:12
  layer that there's not just people that are reacting to the
• 2:15:15
  Dalek invasion, there are some people that are exploiting it as
• 2:15:18
  well. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:15:19
  Which is what? Which is what would happen.
• 2:15:21
  I think Terry Nation does have quite a cynical view of humanity
• 2:15:25
  and what people are like. And you know, people accuse him
• 2:15:28
  of being quite a basic writer, but I don't think that's true at
• 2:15:31
  all. I think he I think he really
• 2:15:33
  gets characters, but he's he's interested in writing the darker
• 2:15:37
  side of humanity. And sometimes perhaps the script
• 2:15:39
  editors of Doctor Who don't necessarily want that for a kids
• 2:15:43
  Saturday tea time show. And that's where you end up with
• 2:15:46
  the Keys of Marinus and stuff like that.
• 2:15:48
  You start on the keys of Marinus, right?
• 2:15:49
  Marv Roth's just downstairs. That's one of his favourites.
• 2:15:52
  That's one of my favourites too, but I'm not going to phrase it
• 2:15:55
  as a work of genius. No, indeed.
• 2:16:00
  In fact, you know what, like he once when we were talking, we
• 2:16:04
  were doing a commentary on the Android invasion, and he gave
• 2:16:06
  her such a brilliant reading as to why Terry Nation was his
• 2:16:10
  favorite, because he doesn't want Doctor Who to be madly
• 2:16:12
  experimental. He loves sort of when the show
• 2:16:16
  leans into the cliches, you've got the companion and the Doctor
• 2:16:19
  wandering a location in episode 1, Daleks that's absolutely like
• 2:16:23
  this. That's not meat and potatoes,
• 2:16:24
  Doctor Who. That's golden Doctor Who.
• 2:16:26
  Think. Absolutely.
• 2:16:28
  I mean, everybody's got their favorite, right?
• 2:16:30
  Here's the. Tiny crocodile.
• 2:16:33
  Yeah, like if I saw that in anywhere I was, I think I'll be
• 2:16:38
  like, I'll be all right. I don't think.
• 2:16:40
  I think I'm going to get eaten alive.
• 2:16:42
  But like, she is hanging off a ladder at a great height there,
• 2:16:44
  so I thought for once Susan's got the right to be a little bit
• 2:16:47
  nervous. Yeah, Yeah, no, yeah.
• 2:16:49
  For once, for once, last. Story I think he would have been
• 2:16:54
  great in this, wouldn't she? What she was like starting that
• 2:16:56
  revolution in the Space Museum. She'd have been there rallying
• 2:16:59
  the troops. She would have kicked that
• 2:17:01
  crocodile in the fence. None of this Susan Malarkey are
• 2:17:06
  getting a bit too scared of it. She was just no one would have
• 2:17:09
  needed to shoot at the. I like the fact they shot at the
• 2:17:12
  crocodile. I can't imagine a crocodile
• 2:17:14
  being scared of her. Maybe it was the sound, I don't
• 2:17:16
  know. Scream no running, wouldn't it?
• 2:17:22
  Can I ask you a question about your personal life?
• 2:17:24
  You can indeed. Have you you suddenly that out
• 2:17:27
  then? Have you ever been seduced with
• 2:17:30
  a wet, slippery fish? I'm not a big fish fan, but no,
• 2:17:40
  a big wet slippery fish has never quite done it for me.
• 2:17:43
  But you know, who knows what will happen in the future?
• 2:17:46
  You know, you never know, dear, I said.
• 2:17:47
  Oh, bloody look at that. What the hell is that?
• 2:17:50
  Is that the slipper claw I think?
• 2:17:53
  That. Yeah, Yes, Yes, it is.
• 2:17:54
  Yeah, it's, well, I mean, we don't know what a sliver claw
• 2:17:57
  looks like. Could be his penis.
• 2:17:59
  You never know. Oh Jesus boy, just grab that
• 2:18:01
  man. So he's, he's, he's in for a
• 2:18:03
  hell of a time. I'll tell you.
• 2:18:06
  We're heading into Hills of Eyes territory now as they're dragged
• 2:18:09
  off into the bushes by inbreds. I mean, I don't think you see
• 2:18:14
  enough of the Sliver for it to be a truly terrible monster.
• 2:18:17
  No, I know. Oh, but here we go.
• 2:18:20
  I think we're seeing more of it than we've ever seen before due
• 2:18:22
  to the restoration though. Like the way it sort of shakes
• 2:18:26
  and things like that. They're trying all right.
• 2:18:29
  I mean, shaking hand reminds reminds me of my alcoholic
• 2:18:33
  uncle, so, you know, that's all I'm saying.
• 2:18:36
  That's how he carries his glass of gin.
• 2:18:39
  Does. He shake his penis at you.
• 2:18:43
  He hasn't, no, but you know, it's always.
• 2:18:46
  You never know what's going to come in the future.
• 2:18:51
  I don't quite know where to go from there.
• 2:18:54
  So that was that was episode 4. And that's usually the point
• 2:18:58
  where you're in a bit of trouble with a six par because you've
• 2:19:00
  done all the establishing stuff and you've sort of added a bit.
• 2:19:04
  I thought that that was just doing a lot of well building and
• 2:19:06
  it had a few fun set pieces in it as well.
• 2:19:08
  Yeah, no, I think I, I feel like this is ramping up now.
• 2:19:11
  Like I feel like the actions getting more exciting.
• 2:19:14
  That was like a thrill of a chase through London.
• 2:19:18
  We got, we got to meet, we got to meet a monster.
• 2:19:21
  Like it was all very exciting and we didn't even notice the
• 2:19:23
  Doctor Who wasn't there himself. That's the first time I've
• 2:19:27
  realized, you know, we're at the end of the episode.
• 2:19:30
  No Billy to be seen anywhere. I wonder if the ally will wake
• 2:19:35
  in the next episode. They often do.
• 2:19:40
  Or should we go and watch it? Let's show.
• 2:19:43
  Let's do it. OK?
• 2:19:46
  You have Dylan Reeves to thank for this very brief excerpt from
• 2:19:51
  Maureen O'Brien's Every Step You Take, a John Bright novel which
• 2:19:56
  wound it's way into my home this year.
• 2:19:59
  Okie Dokie. So he gave her hands back to
• 2:20:03
  her, placing them carefully by her sides on the bed.
• 2:20:06
  She took a sharp breath and her questioning gaze made George
• 2:20:09
  Shire still. He longed to express his ardor
• 2:20:13
  with smooth grace, like her, but was sure she would find him
• 2:20:17
  clumsy or worse, ridiculous. Avoiding her eyes, he unwound
• 2:20:22
  her legs from his waist, placing her little soft feet, placing
• 2:20:27
  her what out, Placing her little soft feet side by side on the
• 2:20:31
  rug, he started to remove his clothes, turning his back to her
• 2:20:35
  to hide his wildly chumescent state.
• 2:20:38
  Chumescent shyness made him clumsier.
• 2:20:42
  His clothes stuck to him at last in just his underpants.
• 2:20:46
  He sat on the bed, his big hands between his thighs.
• 2:20:49
  His mother had laid out his pyjamas on the bed.
• 2:20:51
  Oh dear. He hesitated.
• 2:20:54
  Should he put them on? He dared to steal a look at
• 2:20:56
  Marge. She was standing now with her
• 2:20:58
  back to him at the other side of the bed.
• 2:21:01
  She was pulling down on the zip of her white satin dress.
• 2:21:04
  So instead he got into the bed and covered himself with the
• 2:21:07
  Daisy Patten duvet, dressed only in his underpants.
• 2:21:12
  Then Marge turned to face him. She let the dress fall slowly
• 2:21:15
  off her shoulders. Her body rose inch by inch from
• 2:21:18
  the descending cloud of white. George, astounded, thought,
• 2:21:22
  standing by me at the altar. She had nothing on under her
• 2:21:25
  long white dress. Her small feet stepped out of
• 2:21:28
  the cloud. She looked at him.
• 2:21:30
  Her smile was uncertain. Will you like me?
• 2:21:33
  Am I too bold? But she walked proudly towards
• 2:21:36
  him just the same. He lay still as she got into the
• 2:21:39
  bed, and she lay beside him. Minutes passed.
• 2:21:42
  George waited. He knew that Marge 2 was
• 2:21:45
  waiting, that she expected something of him.
• 2:21:48
  But he was frightened, excited, shy, fearful of causing her
• 2:21:52
  alarm or shame. She was so small too, and he was
• 2:21:57
  so big. At last, certain she would be
• 2:22:00
  crushed under his weight, he positioned himself awkwardly on
• 2:22:03
  top of her. And the rest, you filth bags,
• 2:22:07
  I'll leave to your imagination. Hamster with a blump pen knife
• 2:22:44
  for doing quicker, quicker quicker. 2/1.
• 2:22:50
  Welcome back to Hamster with a Blump Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 2:22:54
  commentary podcast. Go and ask me how I came up with
• 2:22:57
  that ridiculous style. How did you come up with that
• 2:23:00
  ridiculous title? It's.
• 2:23:01
  A great question. Thank you very much.
• 2:23:03
  Do you know? You know what the quote is,
• 2:23:06
  right? I do.
• 2:23:07
  Yes, yes, yes. It's a Tom Baker.
• 2:23:09
  I got to tell you, don't have I? Well, no, but I can't remember
• 2:23:11
  what story it is. I hope it's only guess it.
• 2:23:14
  I've had some fantastic people say that ridiculous title for a
• 2:23:17
  podcast. I made Gary Russell say it one
• 2:23:19
  time. I made If You Don't Say it
• 2:23:22
  honestly and without a hint of irony as well, you know.
• 2:23:26
  Can I ask you a question about the theme tune?
• 2:23:28
  Is that you? No, that's not me.
• 2:23:31
  Please. That guy can sing.
• 2:23:33
  Have you heard me try to sing on this thing?
• 2:23:36
  I've not, no. Well, on one episode, right, I
• 2:23:38
  did have a cover of going underground to an episode of The
• 2:23:43
  Invasion of the Dinosaurs and I did my own lyrics all about
• 2:23:47
  Professor Whitaker and his time travel experience.
• 2:23:50
  Well, it's going to seek out invasion of dollars dinosaurs
• 2:23:53
  episode 5 and it's absolute zinger.
• 2:23:56
  And then you'll never ask me again if I did the title
• 2:23:58
  sequence of a hamster. No, it's it's a friend of mine
• 2:24:02
  who really just fell in love with the podcast straight away
• 2:24:06
  and he was like, this is crazy. Like you just intro and there's
• 2:24:10
  no music. Can I can I do you like a theme
• 2:24:13
  song? And I was like, yeah, can I pay
• 2:24:16
  you for it? And he's like, no, I don't want
• 2:24:17
  any money, just just use it. And I, I said, all right, I'm
• 2:24:20
  thinking, oh man, what the hell is it going to come up?
• 2:24:22
  It's going to be bloody dreadful, you know, And because
• 2:24:25
  it's a gift, I've got to use the thing.
• 2:24:27
  And then he did it and I was like, wowzers, that's really
• 2:24:30
  fantastic. And people say to me now it's
• 2:24:32
  it's like Aquas Barbie. It goes round in their heads all
• 2:24:36
  day long. It's a very catchy theme tune
• 2:24:40
  and like, sometimes that's all you need.
• 2:24:43
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, like some podcasts
• 2:24:47
  it is just like a couple of seconds or a little Jingle at
• 2:24:50
  the beginning and things like that.
• 2:24:51
  Some don't bother at all. There's a fantastic one called
• 2:24:55
  Lazy Doctor Who, which is Erica from Verity and Stephen from
• 2:24:59
  Radio Free Scaro, and they just say hello Erica.
• 2:25:02
  Hello Stephen. That's it.
• 2:25:05
  Yeah, well. How did yours come about then?
• 2:25:08
  Well, I, I actually change, I mean, I just tried to define
• 2:25:11
  different versions of theme tune, but I change it every
• 2:25:13
  series. So the first one is like, I
• 2:25:16
  think it's Kef McCulloch and Sylvester McCoy on the spoons
• 2:25:21
  doing a version of the theme tune podcast.
• 2:25:24
  And then I used an old 80s convention 1.
• 2:25:26
  And now we're currently using the dimensions and time theme
• 2:25:29
  from the Cybertech people. And who knows what I'll use
• 2:25:32
  next. I actually already know, but.
• 2:25:35
  Can I just say right, your podcast has got me through many
• 2:25:38
  an overnight shift over the last four weeks.
• 2:25:40
  That's very kind of good. No worries.
• 2:25:42
  Thanks for listening. I think my all time favorite
• 2:25:44
  though was the shakedown return of the Santara commentary.
• 2:25:47
  I absolutely loved it. Well, because I'd already done a
• 2:25:49
  commentary on that. I'm like, what else is there to
• 2:25:50
  say? Quite a lot, apparently.
• 2:25:53
  The moment where you both say that Caroline Ford isn't doing
• 2:25:56
  any acting at all as a crazy old drunken.
• 2:25:59
  Vamp made. Me laugh my head off.
• 2:26:05
  Any favourites of your own episodes?
• 2:26:07
  Of my own episodes. Oh navel gazing.
• 2:26:11
  Yes, of course I. Do.
• 2:26:14
  I really like me and Mark Donaldson from on the time
• 2:26:19
  lasted quite a peculiar episode where we looked at the musical
• 2:26:22
  careers of Doctor Who stars, which was, I mean, it's quite a
• 2:26:27
  long episode. It's about an hour and a half an
• 2:26:30
  hour and 40 minutes. But we tried to get somebody
• 2:26:32
  from every year of Doctor Who, and I hope we're witty enough to
• 2:26:37
  walk talk our way through it. And then we did the ultimate
• 2:26:39
  adventure at the end, because that's got musical numbers in.
• 2:26:43
  It. I think we were both quite
• 2:26:47
  pissed by the end of it, if I remember correctly.
• 2:26:50
  And then I also me when I was hosting it with my brother Jack,
• 2:26:54
  we did one where we covered the script for the Unmade, the Last
• 2:26:59
  of the Time Lords film from the early 90s.
• 2:27:01
  And I just, that was nice because it's just a bit of
• 2:27:03
  Doctor Who that nobody ever talks about.
• 2:27:05
  So I think those are probably my favorites, but that we've done.
• 2:27:09
  But you know, it's just, it just really varies now.
• 2:27:12
  It kind of varies based on the guest as well, but in terms of
• 2:27:15
  not in terms of quality, but in terms of what they wanted to
• 2:27:18
  cover and they want to pick. Like sometimes it could be quite
• 2:27:20
  a traditional safe thing and sometimes people are like, I
• 2:27:22
  just did one with Luke Malloy, which looks at we did some
• 2:27:28
  Torchwood, we did some Jago and Light Forward.
• 2:27:30
  We covered some of his fan fiction and it was great fun.
• 2:27:33
  And that's just, it's kind of the luck of the stories.
• 2:27:35
  You never quite know what you're going to pull out of them.
• 2:27:38
  Not only do I fancy the arse off Luke Malloy, but also he came on
• 2:27:42
  this and did the Love and Monsters and the Rings of Akaten
• 2:27:46
  and declared both of them absolute classics and I love
• 2:27:49
  both. Of them as well.
• 2:27:50
  Man, he's good, isn't he? That's a terrible shame.
• 2:27:53
  He is broadcasters has stopped because.
• 2:27:57
  It's a terrible shame, but he he, as he said, he's happy to
• 2:28:00
  come on anybody's podcast anytime.
• 2:28:02
  So I will always invite him back on Tupac for TV.
• 2:28:05
  Are you listening to everybody? Luke Malloy is ready to whore
• 2:28:07
  himself out on any podcast going He's going cheap, so snap him.
• 2:28:12
  Up now here. Activation of her episode 5.
• 2:28:17
  Should we do that? I'm glad you didn't ask me what
• 2:28:19
  my favorite ones of these were. No, I didn't.
• 2:28:22
  I put 500 of these out. Now how do you expect me to
• 2:28:24
  remember? I mean, looking at your back
• 2:28:26
  catalog, I just feel lazy. I've done about 40.
• 2:28:29
  And that's 500 of this. I've got about 15 of the big
• 2:28:35
  finished one out. I've got 52 of the Star Trek one
• 2:28:38
  out and I did the other one, then I'm in praise and that's
• 2:28:40
  got another 70 on it. So I mean, if you say that you
• 2:28:43
  thought that was quite long, an hour and a half, you do realize
• 2:28:46
  this thing is going to be about 3 hours long.
• 2:28:48
  You and me talk. Yeah, very, very true.
• 2:28:49
  Yeah, But you know, they get it in little, little chunks, don't
• 2:28:52
  they? Well, it's you and me as well.
• 2:28:53
  That should be fucking grateful, right?
• 2:28:55
  Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
• 2:28:56
  We're doing the Lord's work. Go with it.
• 2:28:59
  Let's go into 5. Who's counting in?
• 2:29:03
  You do it. Go on.
• 2:29:04
  OK, let's press play in 3/2 1. Off we go.
• 2:29:13
  Although I do, I have, as I say I do.
• 2:29:15
  Obviously I do really love the ones I've done with my other
• 2:29:17
  half, but that's only because that's how we met, you know,
• 2:29:20
  something like. No, that's that that that it's a
• 2:29:23
  lovely story and I've so it was Luke Malloy that actually got me
• 2:29:27
  into got me onto your podcast and I I sort of checked out a
• 2:29:33
  few episodes and then I've just the main vading them ever since,
• 2:29:36
  you know. Unless you honestly we have a
• 2:29:41
  slightly psychotic glaze in your eye.
• 2:29:45
  Oh, the slippers back. We've got a new slither now.
• 2:29:48
  He's got massive long tentacle, not massive eyes.
• 2:29:51
  He's been adjusted since last week due to people not thinking
• 2:29:55
  it was scary enough and obviously it's.
• 2:29:57
  Yeah, he's a lot scarier now. Now, obviously the Dalek 63 to
• 2:30:04
  89, this group have obviously done a whole half of that video
• 2:30:09
  on why the sliver change and how it changes, and it's well worth
• 2:30:12
  a watch if you're the sort of person like me that needs that
• 2:30:15
  much information in their lives. May I say the amount of effort
• 2:30:20
  that they go into in those videos, you know, like in that
• 2:30:24
  Victorian St. in Taliswing and Chiang, it's determinations.
• 2:30:27
  On Yeah. Yeah, boy, oh boy.
• 2:30:30
  I'm like, you've got to study this stuff in some depth.
• 2:30:34
  Find these details like the you know, the grazing on a Dalek
• 2:30:38
  bump to show you how that Dalek has been from Dalek Invasion of
• 2:30:41
  Earth all the way through to Remembrance of the Daleks.
• 2:30:43
  Yeah, it's wild. It's like it's, it's a level of
• 2:30:46
  research unheard of for anything that I would ever do.
• 2:30:51
  But worthy of much. Praise.
• 2:30:53
  Yes, indeed, Indeed. I can sit here and watch Doctor
• 2:30:55
  and talk about it and try and be half witty, but you know, that's
• 2:30:59
  the lazy man's podcast. So we've just missed the sliver
• 2:31:04
  actually fall to his death like it was a short lived career.
• 2:31:07
  But I guess the actor got 2 fees, right?
• 2:31:10
  Because he's. Got his feet from the thing and
• 2:31:11
  he's got his feet from the Daily Mail, Yeah.
• 2:31:13
  Yeah, but he's in two episodes and there's a lovely sound where
• 2:31:16
  the sliver falls to his death and it's just like, that's my
• 2:31:21
  slither impression, but. It's incredible.
• 2:31:22
  I would be a double act. You and me, the two slithers,
• 2:31:26
  the Slither couple, the Slitherers.
• 2:31:33
  It's sort of The Archers will just be the slitherers.
• 2:31:37
  And as you say, Billy's back this episode.
• 2:31:39
  Yes. Now look, yeah, weirdly enough,
• 2:31:41
  I didn't. I genuinely did not notice his
• 2:31:43
  absence in the last episode. And that's because there are a
• 2:31:46
  lot of characters in this, and there's a lot going on.
• 2:31:49
  Boy, oh boy, he lights up the screen when he comes back,
• 2:31:51
  doesn't he? He does, he does, and you know,
• 2:31:54
  I've I'm surprised that modern Doctor Who doesn't do more
• 2:31:57
  Doctor light episodes, especially when you've got
• 2:31:59
  sorry, that's a fantastic shot there of two robo men peering
• 2:32:02
  down a sewer just although the one.
• 2:32:04
  On the right, looks like he's going.
• 2:32:06
  What's going on down here? Yeah, wants to join him.
• 2:32:09
  Thinks he's found some basement club in Berlin or something like
• 2:32:13
  that, ready for an exciting night out.
• 2:32:16
  But yeah, I'm surprised the way that Doctor Who is filmed now
• 2:32:20
  and stuff like that, especially when you had a bigger cast in
• 2:32:23
  like the last few seasons doing Doctor Light episodes where you,
• 2:32:27
  they're all character light episodes where you don't feature
• 2:32:30
  people so much is I'm surprised they don't do that more in order
• 2:32:32
  to sort of basically get more bang for your buck because you
• 2:32:36
  can double double bang can be shooting more episodes at the
• 2:32:39
  same time. And just because it allows you
• 2:32:41
  to be quite experimental as well, you look at the ones that
• 2:32:44
  they did turn left, blink, dull monsters, you know, they're,
• 2:32:49
  they're divisive stories, some of them, but they're, they're
• 2:32:53
  doing something a bit different. Yeah, they are.
• 2:32:55
  And I just think there's there's a lot more room for that sort of
• 2:32:58
  stuff and also just exploring the lives of the companions more
• 2:33:02
  with with potentially without a huge kind of input of the
• 2:33:05
  Doctor. But you know what?
• 2:33:06
  I'm not in charge of Doctor Who saying things no one's asked
• 2:33:09
  asked me my thoughts on that. Or me.
• 2:33:10
  And it's a bloody good thing I'm not as well.
• 2:33:12
  You know, honestly, without seeing him practice, it's when
• 2:33:15
  those two hot guys were kissing in the TARDIS.
• 2:33:17
  Look at that going on. There was a sequence there where
• 2:33:23
  they had to kill the robberman in order to get away.
• 2:33:28
  And it was it was a proper kill or be killed.
• 2:33:30
  Like, you know, there was a desperation to it.
• 2:33:32
  Doctor Who hasn't really done much of that to this.
• 2:33:34
  And also you get William Hartnell coming out of a tunnel
• 2:33:37
  and beating one of the with a stick.
• 2:33:39
  And he's a vicious bugger. When he gets scheduled, you see
• 2:33:42
  him throw that fella out the window.
• 2:33:43
  The Romans. I I never buy the the the
• 2:33:46
  Doctors a pacifist. I know there's some criticisms
• 2:33:49
  that have been levelled that the Jodie Witter career is like, oh,
• 2:33:52
  she lets a lot of people die. It's like the Doctors always let
• 2:33:54
  a lot of people die always. It's just.
• 2:33:57
  Baker if he didn't do 1, you know, two or three genocides a
• 2:34:00
  week, that was a bad week for him.
• 2:34:04
  But William Hartley would sort of gnash his teeth.
• 2:34:06
  Do you remember that sequence, that rather comical sequence in
• 2:34:08
  the Chase where he's fighting his own double?
• 2:34:11
  He is basically a way it is William Hartley.
• 2:34:13
  OK, no one's going after my fucking job.
• 2:34:15
  And he's got his stick waving around his head, but he's, he's
• 2:34:18
  vicious. He is absolutely vicious.
• 2:34:21
  And I love this touch of these two old women who, I mean,
• 2:34:24
  they're not one of them's old, the other one's not.
• 2:34:26
  But that are just, again, they're opportunists.
• 2:34:30
  And they see this opportunity, like to help the the Daleks in
• 2:34:34
  their own way. And then they sell out.
• 2:34:36
  Jenny and Barbara also. I don't know whether, you know,
• 2:34:39
  very sad story from the younger one.
• 2:34:42
  What's her name? Jean Conroy died before this was
• 2:34:45
  aired. She was.
• 2:34:47
  Yeah. She died in a road traffic
• 2:34:49
  accident. So she.
• 2:34:50
  Yeah. This is her last work as an
• 2:34:52
  actor. You know, people, I'm going to
• 2:34:54
  say something that might not be very popular, but people mock
• 2:34:57
  that John Levine commentary in The Time Monster.
• 2:34:59
  Do you remember where he goes out about the baby and well, at
• 2:35:02
  least he got to be in Doctor Who.
• 2:35:04
  I think what he's trying to very untactfully say is at least that
• 2:35:08
  person is immortalised and enjoyed after their death.
• 2:35:12
  And I do think there's something in that.
• 2:35:14
  Yeah, no, absolutely. I think it's just a little bit
• 2:35:19
  the style of John Levine. Yeah, he got to be a Doctor Who.
• 2:35:24
  So it's all right that he died. No, John, no.
• 2:35:28
  But do you know what? I swear this is David Whittaker.
• 2:35:30
  All of this character stuff, I think robot man, bro.
• 2:35:34
  I think a lot of it. I think they did say, didn't
• 2:35:38
  they, that Terry Nation isn't, it isn't a documentary.
• 2:35:41
  I think Richard Martin says it, that Terry Nation would write a
• 2:35:44
  lot of the dare and do a lot of the action adventure, a lot of
• 2:35:46
  the sort of world setting. Then David Whittaker would give
• 2:35:50
  it a once over and add a lot of the character stuff.
• 2:35:56
  That's a shame. I'd like because I'm giving all
• 2:35:58
  the credit to Terry Nation, but you're probably right.
• 2:36:02
  Well, see, I, I, I've always said you can kind of tell
• 2:36:06
  because from script editor to script editor, because Terry
• 2:36:09
  Nation did so much Doctor Who over so many periods.
• 2:36:13
  Like when you get to something like Genesis or the Daleks,
• 2:36:15
  suddenly he's doing like morally complex arguments that he's
• 2:36:19
  never done before. Destiny the Dalek.
• 2:36:23
  Suddenly he's doing, you know, hitchhiker style gags that he's
• 2:36:26
  never told. Yeah, No, very true, Very true.
• 2:36:30
  I'd be interested to see. I don't know.
• 2:36:31
  We always talk about the original scripts, the original
• 2:36:35
  versions of this, but I know Big Finisher releasing this year
• 2:36:37
  that original Genesis of the Daleks.
• 2:36:40
  I'll be very interested to see what Terry Nation's first
• 2:36:43
  version of that was like, perhaps without any input from
• 2:36:46
  Robert Holmes. I didn't argue with my wrath
• 2:36:49
  about that, because who wants to listen to those first draft
• 2:36:52
  these scripts? Me.
• 2:36:54
  Do you know why? Because I'm scared that that
• 2:36:57
  original Jerry Davis revenge of the assignment was better than
• 2:37:00
  the one we got. I I couldn't get through that.
• 2:37:03
  I had to turn it off after the first episode.
• 2:37:04
  Oh, is it awful? Yeah.
• 2:37:06
  But I think the Genesis the Dalek 1 is an interesting one.
• 2:37:11
  And somebody I know who works would be finished said that on
• 2:37:14
  the Genesis one they D aged Tom Baker's voice to make him sound
• 2:37:18
  like he did in the 70s, which is interesting.
• 2:37:21
  I don't know whether it made the final thing, but I mean, I hope
• 2:37:25
  so. That'd be quite interesting to
• 2:37:27
  hear. We seem to have gone down a mine
• 2:37:29
  shaft here. We.
• 2:37:30
  Have. Which I feel may be pertinence
• 2:37:32
  of a plot. We are.
• 2:37:35
  We're suddenly in a mine shaft with Ian and his mate.
• 2:37:39
  It's again like they're just the story keeps on going and keeps
• 2:37:44
  on evolving in a way that, you know, a lot of it doesn't feel
• 2:37:48
  like there's any padding in these six episodes because all
• 2:37:50
  the padding feels like if these little character seems like
• 2:37:53
  Barbara with the with this old, the old Crone.
• 2:37:58
  So I I never feel like we're really in a we're really
• 2:38:02
  treading water at all. What?
• 2:38:03
  Is it? I'm going to make a very
• 2:38:04
  bizarre, sort of tenuous link now between all Terry Nations
• 2:38:07
  stories, so prepare yourself. But.
• 2:38:09
  What is Terry Nation's obsession with going down?
• 2:38:15
  In the Daleks? We head down into the city.
• 2:38:17
  In this we head down into the mines in The Chase.
• 2:38:20
  We go downstairs into Iridius, into the city.
• 2:38:23
  Oh, I can't think of Daleks Master plan.
• 2:38:26
  Where did he come back? Oh, in the Planet of the Daleks,
• 2:38:28
  we head down there. All those Daleks under the in
• 2:38:30
  the Ice cave Genesis of the Daleks.
• 2:38:32
  We head down into the bunker In Destiny of the Daleks.
• 2:38:34
  We head down into the city again.
• 2:38:37
  And in the original version of Destiny of Genesis, the Daleks
• 2:38:41
  that's coming, Harry, Harry Sullivan goes down on everybody.
• 2:38:44
  And that that's why they had to rewrite it.
• 2:38:46
  I'd love to see that version. Apparently he does great work on
• 2:38:50
  sailors. He's a pretty man.
• 2:38:55
  He's bisexuals. Oh, you know, he was.
• 2:38:56
  Yeah, there's that thing of I think, who was it that revealed
• 2:39:00
  it? Was it Nicholas Courtney or was
• 2:39:02
  it Elizabeth Sladen? I can't remember.
• 2:39:04
  But yeah, he's apparent. Oh, and Tom Baker says in an
• 2:39:06
  interview that you could just see it in his eyes whenever he
• 2:39:09
  was around other sort of queer men.
• 2:39:13
  So yeah, it's. He was like a very sort of well
• 2:39:15
  built bloke, very gentle and very intelligent man.
• 2:39:19
  I bet he was utterly fanciable. Do you know?
• 2:39:21
  Yeah I know. I bet it's enough.
• 2:39:23
  He comes across lovely in the interviews I've seen with him
• 2:39:26
  and I'm sure. But you know, perhaps it wasn't
• 2:39:29
  A to do that. A man should be bisexual,
• 2:39:32
  especially not a burly rugby bloke like him back then.
• 2:39:35
  So perhaps. We weren't ready for it then,
• 2:39:38
  were we now? I mean, look at me, I'm so
• 2:39:41
  Butch. But he's, yeah, I just don't
• 2:39:46
  wonder whether he just struggled with it a lot.
• 2:39:49
  I mean, there's that. We may have talked about this
• 2:39:51
  last time, but there's that inference from Katie Manning.
• 2:39:53
  Isn't that that Nicholas Courtney was bisexual as well?
• 2:39:56
  Yeah. It's kind of sad, isn't it?
• 2:39:58
  It's sad that that had to be, that had to be hidden.
• 2:40:02
  What's going on here? They're grabbing a load of
• 2:40:03
  baskets. Yeah, I mean, they're, they're
• 2:40:06
  just putting some stones in the baskets, you know?
• 2:40:09
  Poor old man looks like he's on death's door.
• 2:40:12
  Well, he is. He's been down that mine for a
• 2:40:15
  long time and they're just going to Chuck their stones and
• 2:40:18
  they're carry them out. That's what happens.
• 2:40:21
  I do like I do as this goes on, I do find the robo men more and
• 2:40:25
  more effective in a way that I thought they were quite silly to
• 2:40:28
  start with. But I'm actually, they're
• 2:40:30
  actually growing on me a lot. I mean, I've already said to you
• 2:40:33
  about a scene later on where the fella has to kill.
• 2:40:39
  Well, he kills his brother who's a robo man.
• 2:40:42
  They kill each other and it's probably the bleakest scene.
• 2:40:47
  Doctor Who when? Is it now?
• 2:40:50
  Oh, it might be right. Yeah, it is right now.
• 2:40:51
  It's right now and he's literally firing bullets into
• 2:40:54
  his chest and the other one strangling him.
• 2:40:57
  And it's. Like this is kids TV.
• 2:41:00
  It's. Just not.
• 2:41:01
  This is not a happy go lucky TV show right there.
• 2:41:05
  Oh, bless him. His name's Phil.
• 2:41:06
  I can't think of there's such a mundane name.
• 2:41:09
  Phil the Robot Man. Yeah.
• 2:41:13
  Yeah, it is. And they both give.
• 2:41:15
  Well, he's given. It is all the other guy's
• 2:41:16
  giving. It is all what does it?
• 2:41:18
  What's it say on his neck? There's something correct?
• 2:41:20
  I think it says charged. Right.
• 2:41:23
  He's. Oh, there you go.
• 2:41:24
  Yeah, he's fully charged up. Now I'm wondering if that is
• 2:41:27
  something that the Daleks do or whether that's something that
• 2:41:30
  the studio people did to go this one.
• 2:41:32
  The flashing light works on it. Like when they put the numbers
• 2:41:37
  on the Daleks when he's trying to make him remember his old
• 2:41:42
  life. He's got your wife, Angela, you
• 2:41:44
  know. Do you remember?
• 2:41:45
  Yeah, Kill and Angela. They sound like such a lovely
• 2:41:50
  couple. Larry came over every Christmas.
• 2:41:54
  Oh, not anymore. Not anymore, no.
• 2:42:01
  That was going to live out an apocalypse.
• 2:42:03
  Yeah, no, he's shooting him in the bloody chest.
• 2:42:04
  That's yeah, it's dark ass. That is really, really savage.
• 2:42:13
  Yeah, like they're both selling us, no matter how silly the robo
• 2:42:16
  men can be. I think if you're 7 years old in
• 2:42:20
  the 60s, that's up there with Night of the Living Dead.
• 2:42:24
  I'm giving it that. I mean, it's not, it's not like
• 2:42:26
  they're expecting people to go there.
• 2:42:28
  But, you know, like, there's me sitting there going, oh, you
• 2:42:30
  know, playing the bat in the garden when they were seven
• 2:42:31
  years old, having a great old time, having no idea in the
• 2:42:34
  future they were going to strangle and blow the shit out
• 2:42:36
  of it. Oh, this is the seduction scene.
• 2:42:39
  Here we go. Oh yeah.
• 2:42:40
  It's very exciting. I'm.
• 2:42:41
  Sorry, if someone came up behind me with a great slippery fish,
• 2:42:44
  I'd punch him in the face, yeah. I'd be like, you're not trying
• 2:42:47
  to fuck. Could be.
• 2:42:48
  No and. Even if you were, you're not.
• 2:42:50
  You're not getting it now, but like.
• 2:42:51
  Stop fishing me and start fisting.
• 2:42:53
  Me, I've got sight. Get that.
• 2:42:56
  Get that on AT Shirt. But I, I I do believe the
• 2:43:02
  chemistry. Yeah, me too.
• 2:43:04
  Like as I said, I wouldn't particularly want to be stuck
• 2:43:06
  with either of them for the rest of all time, but.
• 2:43:10
  But I think if you're going to do this, like set it up and make
• 2:43:14
  it, you know, authentic, don't just have Leah and Andre hold
• 2:43:18
  hands at the end and go, well, we're staying together.
• 2:43:21
  It's one of the more believable character kind of companion
• 2:43:24
  exits. He's sort of gently stroking her
• 2:43:26
  hand. They have a little kiss, and
• 2:43:28
  then Harnold comes in with a crack in line.
• 2:43:30
  Something's cooking and. They have a kiss.
• 2:43:35
  You don't get that. You don't get that in Doctor Who
• 2:43:37
  for about another 30 or 40 years, probably.
• 2:43:40
  Right. You know, Caroline Ford is very
• 2:43:42
  adept with playing with that fish, isn't she?
• 2:43:45
  Oh, she slapped a few wet fishes around in a time.
• 2:43:49
  Stop going down this long. I won't sleep tonight, honestly.
• 2:43:54
  Now, I mean, even like Vicky, her replacements, like her
• 2:43:58
  goodbye is just it's not foreshadowed at all in the myth
• 2:44:01
  makers, is it? No, there is a sequence where
• 2:44:04
  Stephen goes. Oh, that that dishy Greek.
• 2:44:07
  And she's like, he's just my friend, you know?
• 2:44:09
  Lee Malone. Yeah.
• 2:44:12
  Although The Myth Makers is such a great script, I don't care.
• 2:44:15
  It is, but I mean, I don't think from Susan's point of view or
• 2:44:21
  Vicky's, I don't know whether I would ever fancy someone enough
• 2:44:25
  to want to be trapped in an age that wasn't my own, that was in
• 2:44:29
  the distant past. Because this is the distant past
• 2:44:31
  with Susan, right as well. Yeah, like, I don't, but I don't
• 2:44:35
  think the ending wants you to think that she thinks that the
• 2:44:38
  right decision has been made because she's just staring
• 2:44:41
  longingly where the TARDIS was and she kind of can't even hold
• 2:44:44
  his hand properly, can she? She's sort of, she's holding it
• 2:44:46
  and he has to sort of drag her off, you know, like maybe
• 2:44:51
  you're, maybe you're supposed to ponder.
• 2:44:53
  Was that the right thing? It's.
• 2:44:54
  It almost, it's almost something that's if you, I mean, it's a
• 2:44:58
  plot that you would hope would be revisited if you were doing
• 2:45:00
  it now, but obviously they didn't revisit it.
• 2:45:02
  And then when she next meets her grandfather, it's in the death
• 2:45:06
  Zone on Gallifrey. And she doesn't mention the
• 2:45:08
  single thing about David. No, she doesn't even notice how
• 2:45:11
  he's been recast, you know. No, but she's got a lovely Mac
• 2:45:15
  on at that point and that's the main.
• 2:45:17
  Thing that is true and she can still trip over a rock like the
• 2:45:20
  best of them. She can.
• 2:45:21
  She can I. Really like the scene though.
• 2:45:24
  Where, and I think this is where Richard Martin's at his best,
• 2:45:28
  where he just puts a camera on the actors and lets them act.
• 2:45:31
  Where Susan says, you know, David's got an idea for this and
• 2:45:35
  the doctor's like, do you think this, you know, young man's got
• 2:45:37
  better ideas from the child. Then David comes along and then
• 2:45:40
  he says David's idea and she sort of hugs him.
• 2:45:44
  And. You can kind of see all the
• 2:45:47
  beginnings like that's a bit, I think when I first watched this
• 2:45:50
  and I was going what's happening here like.
• 2:45:53
  The dynamic between Hartnell and Caroline Ford here, it's just I
• 2:45:58
  think it's really fantastic in a way that I don't always pick up
• 2:46:01
  on it. And some of the other stories,
• 2:46:03
  like I really feel like they care for each other in this one.
• 2:46:05
  And I believe that it's, you know, that they are grandfather
• 2:46:10
  and granddaughter and. Yeah, I still don't think it's a
• 2:46:14
  patch on the chemistry, a bit more in O'Brien.
• 2:46:16
  No, not at all, which is why it gets over Vicky so soon.
• 2:46:18
  That's. Why it gets over Susan so soon?
• 2:46:20
  So. What a marvellous replacement
• 2:46:23
  with my granddaughter. You and you can act.
• 2:46:25
  You come. He's fantastic.
• 2:46:29
  Oh dear. It's another obsession with
• 2:46:31
  determination. You know, carrying about a load
• 2:46:33
  of rocks. Oh, he loves rocks.
• 2:46:34
  He loves miners. He loves, yeah, slaves.
• 2:46:37
  Those sort of things I'd love. And shafts, doesn't he he?
• 2:46:41
  Does he does? I'd love to see like some of his
• 2:46:43
  other work in for his ITITC spice series and see whether all
• 2:46:47
  these tropes are still in it or whether he's writing different
• 2:46:49
  sort of stuff. So my heart told me this
• 2:46:51
  wonderful story right where he wrote this story for one of the
• 2:46:54
  ITVITC shows and then he didn't have time to write another
• 2:46:58
  script so he just changed the characters names and then wrote
• 2:47:02
  the same script for another show.
• 2:47:04
  Incredible. And yeah, and no one noticed
• 2:47:07
  that this wasn't an autobiography.
• 2:47:09
  Nobody noticed. That's that's amazing.
• 2:47:12
  That's that's fantastic. That's how much they were
• 2:47:14
  churning those things. Out at the time, but they'd have
• 2:47:17
  like a bunch of sets for those like old ITC shows and go right
• 2:47:20
  this week. Danger man's doing this, this,
• 2:47:22
  this and this. So in the Champions or whatever,
• 2:47:24
  you need to use the same sets and that's just just how you do
• 2:47:27
  it. And that does go to prove what
• 2:47:30
  an inspired concept Doctor Who was, because you can't get away
• 2:47:34
  with that on this. The only thing that gets the
• 2:47:36
  only thing that gets reused in Doctor Who is that little
• 2:47:39
  triangle wall in the 70s and the 80s that appears everywhere from
• 2:47:42
  the TARDIS to. Do you know the first story that
• 2:47:45
  appeared in Come on Trivia Time? I don't think I do.
• 2:47:49
  Tell me I'm going to be able to tell you a bit of trivia.
• 2:47:51
  Go on, hit me. Hit me.
• 2:47:52
  It's the mutants. Is it?
• 2:47:54
  Sky basing the mutants and the fella goes on that.
• 2:47:57
  I kept using that in every bloody show going on.
• 2:48:00
  Did I get a penny for that? No.
• 2:48:03
  Jillian's That's that fantastic wall.
• 2:48:05
  Jill, have you ever seen the the Ray Cusack interviews when he
• 2:48:11
  didn't get any money from the move?
• 2:48:12
  He was a bitter man, wasn't he? Wasn't a bitter man.
• 2:48:15
  I, I can't, I was listening to a podcast years ago and they said
• 2:48:18
  they were at a convention with Ray Cusack and they were sat
• 2:48:21
  with him at the bar. And, you know, he started
• 2:48:25
  whinging and telling his stories of being a bitter man.
• 2:48:27
  And they were like, oh, this is quite sad and quite interesting.
• 2:48:29
  And then he just started being extremely racist.
• 2:48:31
  They were all like, OK, see you later, Ray.
• 2:48:33
  No. I mean, the more O'Brien says
• 2:48:37
  that about Harnold, doesn't she? And the and she goes, you know,
• 2:48:40
  I loved him. So I just sort of pushed it to
• 2:48:43
  one side. Yeah, I've heard people say it
• 2:48:46
  about Michael Wisher as well, that he had some interesting
• 2:48:49
  political views, shall we say. I it was a different time.
• 2:48:53
  It was a different time and you've got to think like most of
• 2:48:56
  these people were born like post war before the war, most of them
• 2:49:00
  actually. So it's like it was a completely
• 2:49:02
  different time. Is that Dalek missing its?
• 2:49:05
  Sorry this is I've only just noticed it missing its light on
• 2:49:07
  its Dome. Very possible, but like we just
• 2:49:10
  said, they were making this in a hurry.
• 2:49:13
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Richard Martin was at lunch at
• 2:49:18
  this point. They just said just shoot this
• 2:49:20
  scene in the night. I'll be back from your pie and
• 2:49:22
  chips in a bit. Yeah, no, it's missing the
• 2:49:24
  light. Very odd.
• 2:49:27
  Why are Barbara and Jenny now being taken away?
• 2:49:31
  Oh, because they've, they're going to.
• 2:49:32
  They've got some very important news for the leader of the
• 2:49:35
  Daleks, haven't they? And this is where she's going to
• 2:49:37
  talk about the Boston Tea Party. That whole sequence is just
• 2:49:41
  great. Yeah, OK, so it does.
• 2:49:45
  It does sort of feel like all of our characters are coming to the
• 2:49:47
  same place now. Yeah, like, it's all ramping up.
• 2:49:50
  You know, we're getting ready for a big finale.
• 2:49:52
  The Daleks are looking menacing like.
• 2:49:57
  Can I say that Black Dalek is pretty damn sexy, you know?
• 2:50:00
  It's gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous.
• 2:50:02
  And the little Hitler salute one of the Daleks did just then
• 2:50:04
  again. I remember I said to you, what
• 2:50:07
  was the first time you saw the Daleks and what was your
• 2:50:10
  reaction to it? I remember with my ex husbands
• 2:50:13
  niece who was very, very close to and I was, I'm going to get
• 2:50:17
  her into Doctor early, I'm going to get her.
• 2:50:19
  So I did her as well and I gave her a Dalek toy and she was
• 2:50:22
  about two years old and she would not stop touching it or
• 2:50:27
  with the sticks and the but she couldn't understand it.
• 2:50:30
  It really. Like for me, it was the first
• 2:50:32
  time I'd seen a child absolutely beguiled by this weird shape.
• 2:50:38
  Yeah, it's that thing that I think Terry Nation, like
• 2:50:41
  originally said, like he didn't want it to seem human.
• 2:50:43
  How do you make it not seem human?
• 2:50:44
  And you remove the legs and you move the arms and you remove the
• 2:50:47
  eyes and it's not even like a cat or a dog or something like
• 2:50:52
  that. It's just completely non human.
• 2:50:55
  So you can see why giving that to a child, they go, what is
• 2:50:57
  this is like nothing I've ever seen before.
• 2:51:00
  And in sort of their most visually interesting scenes in
• 2:51:04
  this, I think you've got lots of dialects on the screen, and the
• 2:51:06
  eyes are going and the sticks are going, and there's lots of
• 2:51:09
  sort of weird movement. You're not quite sure where to
• 2:51:11
  put your eyes, you know? Yeah, although I still think you
• 2:51:15
  know that the animation, the second animation they did of
• 2:51:19
  Power of the Daleks, they smoothed out all the Dalek
• 2:51:22
  animation. Man oh man, and it's so
• 2:51:25
  gorgeous. Yeah.
• 2:51:27
  It is. I don't think that Daleks have
• 2:51:28
  ever looked better than in that animation.
• 2:51:30
  They look great in that and then like a few months later the BBC
• 2:51:33
  dropped their Daleks animated online series.
• 2:51:37
  Did you see that during lockdown?
• 2:51:38
  A little bit, not much. No, because they ruined my mecha
• 2:51:40
  noise. They gave them these weird
• 2:51:42
  female voices. Well, they had to give them some
• 2:51:45
  dialogue, didn't they? End to end to stop wasn't going
• 2:51:48
  to cut. It there's your Nazi salute that
• 2:51:49
  shot there and it was we found a sort of Batman style angle.
• 2:51:54
  No, it's it's a really good shot.
• 2:51:55
  It's a really good shot. But the the Daleks in that BBC
• 2:51:58
  animated thing didn't look as good as that second animated
• 2:52:01
  power of the Daleks. It was it was very odd.
• 2:52:04
  Hello, I don't feel like anybody's quite nailed Doctor
• 2:52:07
  Who has an animation yet in any kind of format.
• 2:52:10
  That all the different things they've tried over the years,
• 2:52:12
  from dreamland to the animations for the missing episodes.
• 2:52:16
  I just, and it's such an obvious idea here as well as the series
• 2:52:21
  lends itself to it. I'm very grateful that they've
• 2:52:24
  done them because I think adding that visual element does give
• 2:52:26
  those chance, those stories a chance to sort of live in in
• 2:52:31
  this day and age. I find it very hard to sit
• 2:52:33
  through a telesnap slideshow of. Retail.
• 2:52:37
  I mean, I've I've batted this story out a million times on
• 2:52:39
  these, but that time when my ex-husband walked in and I was
• 2:52:42
  watching the steel was on the TV.
• 2:52:43
  He went, what are you watching? Are you watching photographs on
• 2:52:47
  the TV? I've got two stories.
• 2:52:48
  I was. Like.
• 2:52:50
  Yeah. Oh, it ended.
• 2:52:52
  What was going on there? Well, and I'm not quite at the
• 2:52:56
  end yet, so. Oh, now I am.
• 2:52:58
  Yeah, We've got about 30 seconds between us.
• 2:53:00
  Ian was in a bomb about to be dropped out of mineshaft.
• 2:53:04
  Next episode. Flashpoint.
• 2:53:05
  It's. Still, pretty exciting idea,
• 2:53:07
  isn't it? Yeah.
• 2:53:08
  Well, as we're saying, things are, things are ramping.
• 2:53:11
  Up and we're headed. For an exciting climax with
• 2:53:15
  Susan and David. Exciting climax is something I'm
• 2:53:18
  very fond of. Do you think this could be
• 2:53:23
  truncated because obviously the movie is an hour and a half?
• 2:53:26
  I think there's always room. I think there's always room to
• 2:53:29
  truncate Classic Doctor Who. And I might have said this on
• 2:53:34
  the last podcast, but I'm a big believer in if the animations
• 2:53:38
  come back, I'm saying truncate them.
• 2:53:40
  Give me, give me an hour and 20 minute version of Dalek's master
• 2:53:44
  plan. Make a really tight, exciting
• 2:53:46
  animation. I know it's heresy, so.
• 2:53:49
  Second time on this very story that you've said something that
• 2:53:53
  has made half of the audience fame in the shop.
• 2:53:56
  The other time was when you said they need to remake these.
• 2:54:01
  I love it. I'm a man with controversial
• 2:54:03
  opinions, apparently. Do you know I've got AI said
• 2:54:06
  this? I don't think I did.
• 2:54:07
  I've got a friend, right? I won't.
• 2:54:09
  No, I will name him. He's about to bring it out as a
• 2:54:11
  blog. Stephen B from the New to Hoop
• 2:54:13
  podcast. Exceptionally clever man.
• 2:54:17
  What he's doing, rubbing shoulders with me, I've no idea.
• 2:54:19
  He's such a clever bloke and he has taken it upon him to re
• 2:54:25
  imagine the entirety of Classic Who in the style of the new
• 2:54:32
  series with Narrative Arts and I, I heard that and my blood run
• 2:54:38
  cold and I was like, well that's a chilling idea, what are you
• 2:54:41
  doing? You know that is.
• 2:54:43
  Then he told me his ideas. I'll point you in the direction
• 2:54:48
  of it when it comes out. There is like the way and the
• 2:54:52
  way he talks about it so passionately and the way he
• 2:54:54
  brings in characters like the Master in Harnell stories and
• 2:54:57
  things like this. It was absolutely inspired.
• 2:55:00
  I think once people got over the initial shock of your idea of
• 2:55:05
  like, you know, right, Doctor Who's ended Long live Doctor
• 2:55:08
  Who, I think it could be amazing.
• 2:55:13
  I think it could too. I think there's there's so much
• 2:55:15
  to mine in the sort of classic series that we've kind of done
• 2:55:19
  the revisit it all, bring back the old favorite.
• 2:55:22
  So what else is there to do now? Obviously someone like Russell T
• 2:55:25
  Davis has gone. I know what we can do and we'll
• 2:55:27
  find out what that plan is in due course.
• 2:55:30
  But for me, like I've just, I would just be tempted to just go
• 2:55:33
  start it all again. Well, imagine doing the web
• 2:55:36
  planet now. I don't know.
• 2:55:39
  It would be absolutely beautiful, you know, Rusty Davis
• 2:55:41
  saying. He thinks, you know what, I'm
• 2:55:43
  going to take Doctor Who off Chibnall and I'm going to bring
• 2:55:44
  back Beat the Meep. Everything.
• 2:55:48
  Nothing's off the cards now. Nothing's off the cards at all.
• 2:55:50
  It's. Going to be great.
• 2:55:52
  But for you and me, yeah, I think we're heading for a
• 2:55:55
  flashpoint. We are heading for a flashpoint.
• 2:55:57
  Shall we go and recharge our glasses and then return to this
• 2:56:01
  very spot in a moment's time? Let's do it.
• 2:56:28
  None. A hamster with a plump pen knife
• 2:56:41
  for doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 2:56:46
  Hello. Hello.
• 2:56:47
  Hello, So what while we've been doing this I've just been
• 2:56:52
  someone's just shared a link with me about possible 2 new
• 2:56:56
  Doctor Who animations I've. Just been told the same.
• 2:57:03
  Smugglers and underwater menace. Yeah, perfect.
• 2:57:05
  I'm in. I'm in.
• 2:57:07
  There's been a rumour floating around that an episode of the
• 2:57:11
  smugglers have been found. So I mean, I mean, I don't know,
• 2:57:16
  but maybe this has been going around for quite a while that
• 2:57:19
  something to do with the smugglers have been found.
• 2:57:21
  So maybe that's why it's been chosen to be animated and we
• 2:57:23
  might see Jamaica and all his glory.
• 2:57:27
  I just. Don't happen to have some
• 2:57:28
  sketches here of Ben with his top off that they can use
• 2:57:32
  smugglers animation so I don't need any.
• 2:57:36
  And a colourised an earthly child, which I know they were
• 2:57:39
  talking about doing for the 60th, no the 50th.
• 2:57:42
  So it kind of makes sense. I, I'm a bit on the fence with
• 2:57:47
  colourisations. Like I do think it's a good idea
• 2:57:49
  for certain stories, but to be honest, an earthly child and
• 2:57:54
  things like that don't really do it for me.
• 2:57:57
  Like. More of the favour of black and
• 2:57:59
  white in some of the colour stories, but those colour maker
• 2:58:02
  ones turn the colour down. Like, you know, if you see like
• 2:58:06
  colour photos from the war games and the sets are all quite
• 2:58:09
  bright and I'm like colourize that give me a colourized
• 2:58:12
  version of that. I want to see what it looks
• 2:58:13
  like. But an Earthly child.
• 2:58:15
  It's like it's the TARDIS, which is basically black and white.
• 2:58:20
  It's some caves which are basically black and white.
• 2:58:24
  And just as a landscape. Yeah.
• 2:58:26
  I mean I, I say that and I will buy it on every version that
• 2:58:30
  they release it, release it on and I.
• 2:58:31
  Will buy all those animations as well.
• 2:58:32
  We'll buy, then it's all over again.
• 2:58:35
  Yeah, and if it's shit, I will still watch it several times
• 2:58:38
  again and again and again. Boy, I boy, I had fun doing the
• 2:58:41
  commentary in Underwater Menace. Did you try to get out of the
• 2:58:44
  skin of Professor Zarov? And we try to unpeel him
• 2:58:47
  psychologically to see how he possibly would have got to this
• 2:58:50
  state. We decided he had a terrorizing
• 2:58:52
  mother, you know, like. It must have been.
• 2:58:54
  It must have. Been trying to impress her ever
• 2:58:56
  since. The destruction of the Earth was
• 2:58:58
  the only way I was going to do it.
• 2:59:02
  It was fun. Yeah, I I do love that story.
• 2:59:05
  It's so much fun. Like, I know it's not very good,
• 2:59:08
  but it is. I'm not.
• 2:59:09
  Crazy, but then a lot of doctor is so.
• 2:59:12
  Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, crazy.
• 2:59:16
  But I've always loved the smugglers.
• 2:59:17
  So the idea of seeing that in any format that may happen, it
• 2:59:22
  would be very exciting. I just.
• 2:59:25
  Think do the savages? I think the Savages would be
• 2:59:29
  read, you know, people would think more of it, in it.
• 2:59:32
  I think this is what this thing of like everybody goes, oh, you
• 2:59:35
  know, William Hartman wasn't well towards the end and stuff
• 2:59:38
  like that. But in both the savages and in
• 2:59:41
  the smugglers, you listen to those and you're like he is fine
• 2:59:44
  form so but. He knows what they're up to.
• 2:59:47
  The elders, yeah. Yeah.
• 2:59:49
  Your monstrous experiments, That's great.
• 2:59:55
  Yes. So I, I, I kind of buy, I don't
• 2:59:58
  buy that thing that he was, you know, not very well towards the
• 3:00:01
  end and that affected all of his performance.
• 3:00:03
  I think it was just hit and miss from week to week really.
• 3:00:06
  The more I watch Harlem, the more like valuable I think he
• 3:00:11
  was to the show, and the the more personality I see that he
• 3:00:16
  brings to it. I I'm not a massive fan of
• 3:00:19
  Davison's Doctor. I like him quite a bit in 21,
• 3:00:23
  but in his first season I'm a bit hit or miss because I do
• 3:00:25
  think it's an incredible sort of naturalistic performance.
• 3:00:28
  I don't think the Doctor should ever quite be naturalistic.
• 3:00:34
  And in contrast, Hartnell is just putting in so many ticks
• 3:00:36
  and quirks, and he's trying to like, you know, he's trying to
• 3:00:40
  rip your attention from everything else and succeeding
• 3:00:42
  all the time, you know? Like he is the like he is this
• 3:00:46
  mercurial wizard grandfather crotchety.
• 3:00:50
  Like he he's almost every version of the doctor we ever
• 3:00:53
  see after that, but from moment to moment, rather than like it's
• 3:00:57
  all there in his performance. Almost from from day one.
• 3:01:00
  It's fantastic. Amazing.
• 3:01:02
  And I don't really think he drops the ball either.
• 3:01:04
  I hope they write him out a lot. But gunfighters, he's brilliant
• 3:01:08
  in the gunfighters he's. Absolutely on fire war machines
• 3:01:11
  is fantastic in and you know, the the only story realistically
• 3:01:15
  where I'm going to go, perhaps he's not on point is the
• 3:01:18
  massacre because there's no difference between the
• 3:01:21
  performance of the Abbott and the doctor and you're like,
• 3:01:25
  well, why did he make that choice?
• 3:01:26
  And also, what's the point in the doppelganger?
• 3:01:29
  That's when it doesn't really go anywhere.
• 3:01:32
  But then that speech he gives in episode 4.
• 3:01:34
  Yeah. It's probably his best acting
• 3:01:36
  moment in in the Yeah, well, except for the Sumner scene in
• 3:01:41
  the Romans, of course. The.
• 3:01:44
  Way he keeps away from that sword in his face.
• 3:01:46
  Yeah, more, more saunas in Doctor Who.
• 3:01:49
  That's what we need. I'm there for it.
• 3:01:52
  Well, Rusty Davis coming back, there's a good chance, you know,
• 3:01:56
  it's not what this is so great this conversation.
• 3:01:58
  I'm going to add this to the episode.
• 3:01:59
  You know, I'm just going to start it somewhere here and then
• 3:02:01
  we'll, we'll count in later. Wonderful.
• 3:02:04
  OK, that's fine. But Are you ready for six?
• 3:02:07
  I am ready for six. I'm ready for Flashpoint,
• 3:02:10
  whatever the flashpoint may be. Well, I shall very quickly say
• 3:02:13
  then, I'm about 3 minutes into this episode now.
• 3:02:17
  Welcome back to the Doctor Who Commentary podcast.
• 3:02:22
  Me, Joe Ford, you, Dylan Reece. Yes, here I am, still here,
• 3:02:26
  about to enter into the final moments of the Daleks invasion
• 3:02:30
  of Earth. I think we should press play,
• 3:02:32
  but I do have a question from my other half.
• 3:02:35
  He's just asked me downstairs. He's asked me to ask you a
• 3:02:37
  question. So count us in and I'll ask.
• 3:02:41
  OK, shall we do it in 54321 play?
• 3:02:46
  That's another thing. Kerry Darshan loves a countdown.
• 3:02:50
  He does like a countdown, doesn't he?
• 3:02:52
  Who doesn't? It's the best way to literally
• 3:02:54
  hit hit your climax. You know you're going to get
• 3:02:56
  there. It's like once we hit one, we
• 3:02:58
  know it's the end of the story. Well, I'll try that, you know,
• 3:03:01
  next time I'm heading toward a CarMax 10987.
• 3:03:05
  No, I only made it to seven. Sorry.
• 3:03:08
  No, The question was, oh, man, I love that Batman angle.
• 3:03:12
  That sort of squiffy angle. Yeah, Yeah.
• 3:03:15
  So cool, so cool. And the model works not bad
• 3:03:19
  either. Look at that.
• 3:03:21
  Are they models? Is it?
• 3:03:23
  I think. Oh, oh, the yeah, sorry.
• 3:03:26
  I see what you mean. Yeah, the the model work of the
• 3:03:29
  of the bomb. Oh look, there's a little model
• 3:03:31
  Dalek. That that little model Dalek
• 3:03:35
  wasn't their last episode, so that when they remanded it, they
• 3:03:38
  they threw in that little model Dalek.
• 3:03:40
  You can see, but I've got one right here.
• 3:03:41
  Look. Beautiful.
• 3:03:43
  Absolutely. He hasn't got a saucer, though I
• 3:03:45
  do have one with a little thing at the back.
• 3:03:47
  And the question was this was, is Susan too young to stroke
• 3:03:54
  Mary? Have a romance?
• 3:03:58
  I'm 18, isn't she? I mean, she's 15 apparently in
• 3:04:02
  the Earth years or that's what she said she was on the on
• 3:04:07
  planet Earth, but she could be 200.
• 3:04:09
  So there's a potential, but he's with a very older woman.
• 3:04:13
  Actually. I think it's changing attitudes
• 3:04:17
  and changing times. People got married very young
• 3:04:19
  and got into a relationship. There was their only
• 3:04:21
  relationship very young back in the day, but the first.
• 3:04:26
  Hint you've ever had of her being, like, sexually active,
• 3:04:31
  isn't it? Like, really?
• 3:04:32
  But there's that scene in the Aztecs where she's like, I
• 3:04:35
  wouldn't be told who to marry, you know?
• 3:04:39
  But that's more rejecting the idea of marriage rather than any
• 3:04:42
  hint of kind of sexuality there at all.
• 3:04:46
  But I mean, yeah, I think she from today's standards, if she's
• 3:04:50
  a 16 year old girl, then yes, it is a very, it's very bad form on
• 3:04:54
  her grandfather's. But you know.
• 3:04:58
  They've been sort of laying the seeds, haven't they, in the
• 3:05:01
  sense of rights. They show her sort of gaining a
• 3:05:04
  bit of independence, don't they? And and rejecting his authority
• 3:05:08
  a little bit. Yeah, I think the problem, the
• 3:05:11
  main problem with the Susan character is there's no
• 3:05:14
  consistency there. Like one minute, as you say, in
• 3:05:16
  the sense of rights, you do have this little bit of kind of
• 3:05:18
  independence and but it's just like the next week she's just
• 3:05:22
  screaming and crying and passing out.
• 3:05:25
  So there's, yeah, there's no consistency.
• 3:05:27
  Oh, we've just seen Ian fall down a a mine shaft.
• 3:05:30
  That little, that little model with great.
• 3:05:34
  Yeah, but it's a little model and then it cuts to him going
• 3:05:36
  down a slide in a studio. It's like it's, it's a complex,
• 3:05:42
  it's, it's a complex production list.
• 3:05:44
  I, I, I'm getting more forgiven of Richard Martin that he's
• 3:05:47
  managed to sew together all these separate elements.
• 3:05:49
  So you've got a model shot, you've got this sort of cut in
• 3:05:54
  of, of a slide, then you've got location footage and then you've
• 3:05:58
  got studio footage. Just a lot to manage.
• 3:06:01
  I think I only really noticed how shoddy his direction could
• 3:06:06
  be sometimes was when I compared it with the other stories.
• 3:06:08
  And I watched The Rescue after this, which is a very simple
• 3:06:11
  story, but with some really beautiful camera work in it and
• 3:06:16
  lighting. And there's like a sequence with
• 3:06:17
  Hartnell in that temple at the end, and you've got Bennett
• 3:06:20
  coming in behind him and all the smoky SEC, and it's like a
• 3:06:23
  really crafted shot. You're not really getting any of
• 3:06:26
  that here. No, not at all.
• 3:06:28
  I'd be interested to see Richard Martin.
• 3:06:31
  We've given a simpler story to see whether he did do, but oh,
• 3:06:34
  we're having the dance of the Daleks at the moment.
• 3:06:36
  They're all getting very excited.
• 3:06:37
  Which? Picks us up again in the Chase.
• 3:06:39
  You know, they do a lot of spinning around singing their
• 3:06:42
  little TARDIS song. I I hate it when the Daleks move
• 3:06:45
  unnecessarily. I've I hated it in Doomsday,
• 3:06:48
  especially when they'd shake every time they spoke like they
• 3:06:51
  were really agitated. It really grinds my gears, but
• 3:06:54
  I'm sure you know other people love it.
• 3:06:57
  I, I, I sort of like the movement of their bits.
• 3:07:03
  Sorry, it's a very non specific statement, but yeah, I see what
• 3:07:08
  you're saying. It can be, it can be a bit
• 3:07:10
  comical, can't it? Yeah, it's not too bad here, but
• 3:07:13
  it's like they just all sit. But it points in this and in
• 3:07:18
  others it does get a bit agitating.
• 3:07:21
  So we've got Barbara about to give her.
• 3:07:26
  This is nice because it leans into a job, doesn't it?
• 3:07:29
  So she also understands all of history.
• 3:07:31
  So she puts together this very colourful and improbable mash up
• 3:07:35
  of historical characters and events.
• 3:07:38
  Yeah. Do you know earlier on she said
• 3:07:41
  when they were heading to Bedford, she was like, oh, I, I
• 3:07:43
  used to live in Bedford. And that got me thinking, did
• 3:07:45
  she used to commute into Shoreditch every day?
• 3:07:47
  Because that's an hour and a half without traffic.
• 3:07:50
  I wonder she's a big grumpy. Yeah, exactly.
• 3:07:54
  But if she wants any old excuse to follow students home, you
• 3:07:57
  know. Yeah, no wonder she wants to
• 3:07:59
  shack up with Ian. She's like, I leave the bed
• 3:08:01
  somewhere closer to this school. It's a four hour commute round
• 3:08:04
  trip every day. She's probably dirty, isn't she?
• 3:08:07
  Yeah. She's been down in mine.
• 3:08:09
  They weren't afraid to sort of dirty out the regulars back in
• 3:08:12
  the 60s. I really like that.
• 3:08:14
  But you know how two or two do their doskers and they have the
• 3:08:18
  Sir Ian Chesterton Award because Hysteria 2 absolutely adores
• 3:08:22
  him, thinks he's the ultimate hero of the series.
• 3:08:24
  I mean, look at what he's doing right now.
• 3:08:25
  He's going down ropes, climbing into bombs, down mine charts and
• 3:08:30
  saving the earth. Like, this is the true heroic
• 3:08:33
  Ian Chesterton, isn't it? Yeah, and he is.
• 3:08:35
  He's the action lead. The Doctor's a whole different
• 3:08:38
  character. Like he is the Doctor's still
• 3:08:41
  the lead, but it's it's a different type of lead in than
• 3:08:45
  we're used to in conventional storytelling these days.
• 3:08:47
  And I think perhaps that's why it's such a success, because
• 3:08:49
  they've taken the in Chesterton character, which would be the
• 3:08:52
  lead in any other drama and gone.
• 3:08:55
  We're we're going to almost sideline that character and give
• 3:08:57
  you somebody different and more interesting.
• 3:08:59
  And that's when you get a bit of a doddery old man.
• 3:09:04
  I make it a really interesting dynamic as well.
• 3:09:06
  That's what I loved about The Sarah Jane Adventures, so that
• 3:09:09
  you had this older woman as the lead and the kids that would
• 3:09:12
  normally be the leads of are like the secondary characters.
• 3:09:16
  Yeah, it's just such a fantastic.
• 3:09:18
  Idea. I feel really perverse saying
• 3:09:20
  this after just talking about children, but I have to say for
• 3:09:23
  the sake of a climax I would have no issue at all with Ian
• 3:09:27
  Chesterton penetrating my mind shot.
• 3:09:33
  Sorry. Beautiful.
• 3:09:35
  Well, I mean, I mean, you saw the way he was squatting in in
• 3:09:39
  that bomb. Like I'm sure he could do all
• 3:09:41
  sorts of magic tricks. He's very flexible man.
• 3:09:43
  I'm going to say I went to a panto twice this week and I was
• 3:09:46
  taking notes the whole time. Every time.
• 3:09:47
  Every time that Dame spoke, I was like, right, It's just
• 3:09:50
  perfect material for hamster. But it's like, it is a bit like
• 3:09:55
  the Daleks now, isn't it? Like there's a countdown, a bomb
• 3:09:59
  is going to go off. Yeah, it's, it's the same sort
• 3:10:03
  of format as that, you know, it's just, it's the same climax
• 3:10:07
  essentially. It's, but it's the, I guess kind
• 3:10:12
  of the stakes are higher because they're real human beings.
• 3:10:14
  And if you you're watching this in 1964, you're going, oh, like
• 3:10:18
  this all suddenly feels more relatable in the way that Thals
• 3:10:21
  and Daleks necessarily don't. Yeah.
• 3:10:26
  It's great. Look at him, he's having a
• 3:10:28
  proper dance around that set. I think that's probably why the
• 3:10:34
  kids like them though, isn't it? Run around the playground with
• 3:10:37
  your arms out, you know. Yeah, but you compare this to
• 3:10:41
  just a few stories, Time and what Happened to Dalek Master
• 3:10:43
  Plan. I mean, I know we haven't seen
• 3:10:46
  all of it, but from the surviving episodes, there's none
• 3:10:48
  of this kind of just going around for the sake of this.
• 3:10:52
  Well, I think Dallas Canfield was absolutely determined to
• 3:10:55
  make them scary. That first scene where young
• 3:10:58
  fellow whose name I've forgotten is rummaging around in that
• 3:11:01
  forest falls to his knees, and then there's that shot up of the
• 3:11:04
  Dalek looking down. Yeah, it's fantastic.
• 3:11:07
  You're like, you're in different territory now.
• 3:11:08
  Yeah. That's a completely different
• 3:11:11
  like especially considering I think I've unfairly kind of
• 3:11:16
  grouped together a lot of Richard Martin stuff because I
• 3:11:19
  think there is this and his episodes of The Daleks and then
• 3:11:23
  there is The Chase and The Web Planet, which are enjoyable, but
• 3:11:27
  they are not technically well executed and I think.
• 3:11:31
  I loved Chase, but I think it's one of the most ineptly made
• 3:11:36
  Doctor Who's. Oh yeah, absolutely.
• 3:11:37
  It's an absolute hoot. But it is not.
• 3:11:40
  It's not well made. Do you know what they they
• 3:11:44
  materialized in that haunted house and that Daleks behind the
• 3:11:46
  port colours before they arrive it's.
• 3:11:48
  So shoddy. There's a.
• 3:11:49
  There's a bit actually we see in here later where there's a as
• 3:11:54
  the rebels are escaping. Like as the rebels are kind of 1
• 3:11:57
  you see down the end of a corridor.
• 3:11:59
  At the end of the corridor is the set from episode 1 and 6,
• 3:12:02
  where the TARDIS landed just under that bridge.
• 3:12:08
  Because of course. I do get it.
• 3:12:10
  I do buy the argument time, money, blah, blah, blah,
• 3:12:13
  etcetera, etcetera. But then I watched the that the
• 3:12:15
  surviving episode as a diamonds plan and I'm saying, well, he
• 3:12:18
  had the same amount of money, he had the same amount of time, you
• 3:12:20
  know, like. But also, like, you didn't get
• 3:12:22
  that in a lot of other stories directed by lesser directors as
• 3:12:26
  well. But we're not just talking
• 3:12:27
  Douglas Canfield here. We're talking everybody apart
• 3:12:30
  from Richard Martin. Yeah, I don't really think
• 3:12:34
  there's many shoddy directors, except it's fella that they're
• 3:12:38
  giving all the epics to. I think, do you know, I think
• 3:12:42
  it's only when you get into the 80s that we start getting and
• 3:12:45
  it's not a case of shoddy directors in the 80s.
• 3:12:48
  I think it's either inexperienced or too old school
• 3:12:52
  and not like unable to kind of keep up with sort of modern
• 3:12:56
  production techniques. Like I'm thinking like Peter
• 3:13:00
  Grimmway being a fantastic director of the A, but then, you
• 3:13:04
  know, like what's Johnny Burn? Like his stories just get worse
• 3:13:07
  and worse and worse and by the end of it or Peter Moffett as
• 3:13:09
  well. Like, I mean, hang on.
• 3:13:11
  Johnny Burns not. Now you're thinking of Ron
• 3:13:12
  Jones. Are you thinking of Ron Jones?
• 3:13:14
  Yeah, Ron Jones. That's it.
• 3:13:15
  It's like. I think Ron Jones learns.
• 3:13:17
  I think, I think he starts on dreadful in like time flight and
• 3:13:21
  stuff like that. And then by the time you get to
• 3:13:22
  mind warp, he's actually under, he's getting the lighting right.
• 3:13:27
  Yeah, I suppose. No, I suppose you're right.
• 3:13:29
  Yeah, I'm trying to think around something, but I don't know.
• 3:13:31
  Anyway, I just find the 80s. Hit and miss.
• 3:13:35
  Has a lot is a lot more hit and miss than I think 60s Doctor Who
• 3:13:38
  is. I think the only other thing
• 3:13:40
  that I could probably point a finger at is maybe the
• 3:13:43
  underwater menace, but I think that was just too ambitious
• 3:13:45
  rather than it being the director's fault.
• 3:13:48
  I just don't think anybody could have done that justice.
• 3:13:52
  I still think that Dance of the Fish people is gorgeous in many
• 3:13:56
  ways. For many years that during the
• 3:13:59
  first lock, not for many years, for many months during the first
• 3:14:01
  lockdown, that fish background, that was my Zoom background.
• 3:14:05
  Whenever I was on Zoom, just floating fish people.
• 3:14:08
  And then I swapped it out for crawl.
• 3:14:09
  Just going like that in the background.
• 3:14:11
  Oh. Man, even better.
• 3:14:18
  So. What's the carry?
• 3:14:19
  What's the plan? I think Hartman was about to
• 3:14:23
  tell all the robomen that this order cannot be countermanded.
• 3:14:26
  Now. We missed earlier that Barbara
• 3:14:28
  already tried that, but the Dallas kicked her out of the
• 3:14:30
  way. So really the doctor's using
• 3:14:31
  Barbara's plan. Barbs was going to save the day
• 3:14:35
  all along. So you're trying to tell me that
• 3:14:38
  when they were in that dialect source for an episode 2, all
• 3:14:40
  they had to do was grab a microphone and go?
• 3:14:42
  This. All could have been over.
• 3:14:45
  Yeah. I mean, everybody in this in
• 3:14:47
  this kind of finished this story a long time.
• 3:14:49
  Oh, I see. Look at this POV shot, The
• 3:14:52
  Dalek. Glorious.
• 3:14:53
  And you get him. It's a Dalek facing off with the
• 3:14:56
  first Doctor that you get shortly and it's gorgeous and
• 3:15:00
  it's like a proper hero moment for the Doctor.
• 3:15:03
  You can even see the sucker there.
• 3:15:04
  Just so you know, it's definitely a Dalek.
• 3:15:09
  Yeah, it's absolutely gorgeous. Have a look here.
• 3:15:11
  What's that Dalek operator doing smoking inside that?
• 3:15:18
  Oh, bliss. Yeah, they're all off again.
• 3:15:20
  They're all off. There's a really exciting
• 3:15:24
  sequence in the second on location when all the miners
• 3:15:28
  come running out holding up a Dalek.
• 3:15:30
  Oh yeah, it's gorgeous. Like it's just, and again,
• 3:15:34
  really well executed, like it's obviously been rehearsed because
• 3:15:38
  on the day and they've thought about their angles, they thought
• 3:15:41
  about whatever he's going to do and everyone's given their all.
• 3:15:43
  And even though there's only 50 extras there or something like
• 3:15:46
  that, it feels like it could be thousands.
• 3:15:48
  Your imagination sort of does the rest, doesn't it?
• 3:15:51
  That poor old man, he's he's always in it.
• 3:15:53
  Whatever. There's extras.
• 3:15:53
  That old man in the vest. Yeah, we just saw.
• 3:15:57
  We did. We did just see Barbara doing
• 3:15:59
  her Dalek again, teaching kids, teaching kids how to do a Dalek
• 3:16:04
  impression. That's brilliant.
• 3:16:06
  It's not quite as good as Hartnells, was it?
• 3:16:08
  I thought them all. So there it is that can you see,
• 3:16:11
  you know, you may have just missed it, but as they walked
• 3:16:13
  through that door, there there was.
• 3:16:14
  It is forbidden to dump bodies in the river on the wall.
• 3:16:16
  Oh. No, because we're going to be
• 3:16:19
  using that set later. Yeah.
• 3:16:21
  And nobody's thought even like, oh, maybe we could just put up a
• 3:16:26
  like, I don't know, a sheet, a black sheet, something like
• 3:16:28
  that. I don't imagine they thought
• 3:16:29
  people were going to be watching this over and over again many
• 3:16:32
  times in the future though, you know?
• 3:16:34
  Ducks who have been on for a year, Surely they must have
• 3:16:36
  known what Doctor Who fans were like like.
• 3:16:40
  The Appreciation Society was brewing up as we speak.
• 3:16:45
  I mean, he was already watching, wasn't he?
• 3:16:47
  Yeah, he was there from, I think he watched from the the week
• 3:16:50
  before the first episode, just to make sure.
• 3:16:53
  This is Doctor Who's first quarry isn't.
• 3:16:55
  It it is, Where is it? I don't know Bedford's church.
• 3:16:59
  No, I don't. I don't know, I.
• 3:17:01
  Like the fact they they've gone to the top of the ravine there
• 3:17:03
  and shot down. Yeah.
• 3:17:05
  No, we sort of see all the extras pouring out like ants.
• 3:17:08
  Yeah. No, it's.
• 3:17:09
  Really, I said really well done like and I'll give him his
• 3:17:13
  credit where credit is due. I'll tell you what, there's two
• 3:17:16
  sequences. Obviously we'll talk about
• 3:17:19
  Susan's departure, which is very moving.
• 3:17:21
  But I think even more moving is that moment when you hear Big
• 3:17:24
  Bell Ben chime. And doesn't the doctor say only
• 3:17:28
  the beginning or something like that?
• 3:17:30
  It's a really lovely moment. Yeah, it is a lovely moment.
• 3:17:34
  And I I also think though, at the end of an invasion, it's the
• 3:17:39
  best thing you've got to do with your time.
• 3:17:41
  They've been subjugated for years.
• 3:17:45
  Like probably go find some food or something like that.
• 3:17:50
  We'll let everybody know, like, what's all this stock footage?
• 3:17:55
  Oh, is it like volcanic eruptions occurring?
• 3:17:57
  Yeah, exactly. We haven't quite got the Enemy
• 3:18:00
  of the World footage yet, so. Odd slides.
• 3:18:02
  It's all going on. Yeah.
• 3:18:04
  I don't know, it still feels epic to me.
• 3:18:06
  Oh hello, there's those buildings from Enemy of the
• 3:18:08
  World. I didn't realize they were used
• 3:18:12
  in this. Brilliant.
• 3:18:16
  I wonder where that? I wonder where that?
• 3:18:17
  Footage is from. Oh, I don't know, it plays some
• 3:18:22
  dreadful. Yeah, nuclear.
• 3:18:25
  Footage. Inserted into a Doctor Who and
• 3:18:30
  the lovely Anne Davies playing Jenny now.
• 3:18:33
  Lifelong friendship with Jacqueline Hill.
• 3:18:35
  Yeah, but disappears isn't in the final scene.
• 3:18:38
  Now the the reason she's not in the final scene is because in an
• 3:18:42
  earlier draft, Jenny was already was already be on board the
• 3:18:45
  TARDIS hiding on there and she would have been the new
• 3:18:49
  companion before anybody was cast like so.
• 3:18:53
  And I don't even think the character was called Jenny at
• 3:18:55
  that point. But obviously when they decided
• 3:18:58
  it wasn't going to be Jenny that was going with them, they just
• 3:19:01
  didn't bother to write her into the the final scene when they
• 3:19:04
  when they all say goodbye. I think I did know that, but I'd
• 3:19:08
  forgotten that. Would we have liked Jenny and
• 3:19:11
  the TARDIS? I think it would have been a
• 3:19:13
  very different dynamic. Yeah, especially when her and
• 3:19:16
  Barbara finally fucked and. Yeah, they, you know, be very
• 3:19:22
  disappointed in the Romans, wouldn't they?
• 3:19:26
  Jenny and Barbara relaxing on those Shay's longe.
• 3:19:31
  But in Rome, anything, anything goes, you know what I mean?
• 3:19:33
  Like. It isn't that book Byzantium?
• 3:19:35
  Have you read that? I've not learned.
• 3:19:37
  Keith topic I suggest you do a bit racy well.
• 3:19:40
  The Roman times, everybody was shagging.
• 3:19:42
  Everybody wasn't. There.
• 3:19:43
  Oh, the New Adventures and BBC Books.
• 3:19:45
  Everyone was shagging Fix. Fitzcryner was having it off of
• 3:19:49
  everyone. Lucky Fitz.
• 3:19:55
  Did you notice Mr. Rumbold then walking across with that plank
• 3:19:59
  of wood, totally waiting for his cue?
• 3:20:05
  Go on mate. No, no, no, go on.
• 3:20:07
  Joe, do you feel sorry for these actors?
• 3:20:09
  You know, they get, they get caught by their characters
• 3:20:11
  names, Mr. Rumbold, you know. Oh, I love this with the shoe.
• 3:20:17
  Yeah. It's very sweet.
• 3:20:19
  Oh honestly, she's always losing her fucking shoes.
• 3:20:21
  Don't you remember Keys and Mariners?
• 3:20:23
  She can't keep her shoes on. It's just, you know, the one who
• 3:20:26
  wants to get rid of her. He's probably run through all
• 3:20:28
  the shoes and the tar. That's because she keeps fucking
• 3:20:30
  losing them. He calls her a little monkey.
• 3:20:37
  I mean, you just buy it, though. The chemistry between them, It's
• 3:20:40
  so like, this is his goodbye, and she sort of knows it's a
• 3:20:45
  goodbye as well. And I've, you know, I've heard,
• 3:20:49
  you know, the vegan Doctor Who fans, I call them the vegan fans
• 3:20:53
  because you know, they, they shout the loudest about their,
• 3:20:57
  their political leanings and going, oh, you know, Susan
• 3:21:01
  doesn't have any agency here. The decision is taken out of her
• 3:21:04
  hand. That is the point.
• 3:21:05
  That's why it's dramatic. Yeah, because she would never
• 3:21:08
  leave him. She would never go, but she has
• 3:21:11
  to go, you know? She needs to build her own life
• 3:21:15
  with David Cameron. He'd totally be played by Tenant
• 3:21:21
  nowadays, wouldn't he? Yeah, he absolutely would.
• 3:21:23
  He'd be. I mean, I don't in terms of like
• 3:21:27
  60s hot men. I don't know whether this David
• 3:21:29
  is exactly what you would cast, but like.
• 3:21:33
  I think Tyler's hotter, a bit rougher.
• 3:21:37
  Yeah, I mean, David doesn't really do it for me, but you
• 3:21:40
  know, I'm not a 16 year old time lady called Susan so.
• 3:21:45
  Neither am I Don't do it for me. I wonder why Tyler was just sort
• 3:21:51
  of standing there then. But he's like, you know, come
• 3:21:54
  and find me later, once you, once you've sorted this out.
• 3:21:57
  Once we all figure out what we're going to do with the rest
• 3:22:00
  of our lives. It's very remiss that she throws
• 3:22:03
  the key down in the dirt. Yeah, I'm sure.
• 3:22:07
  Does that come back in legacy in the dialect?
• 3:22:09
  It feels like, I feel like it's. I think it's one of the big
• 3:22:11
  finishes. Of course he's important in one
• 3:22:13
  of those. Yeah.
• 3:22:16
  Oh yeah. This is very weird though, the
• 3:22:18
  way they can't actually look at each other.
• 3:22:20
  Yeah. And also like, it's all that I
• 3:22:24
  do love you. I do.
• 3:22:25
  But it's a bit like, I mean, this is a very romanticized view
• 3:22:29
  of romance, and you see it in a lot of old films.
• 3:22:32
  But I mean, they've only had a snog and a slap around the face
• 3:22:35
  with a wet fish. Ain't he wouldn't thank me for
• 3:22:40
  saying this. Usually you don't get to episode
• 3:22:42
  6 of my commentary. So so maybe you won't hear this.
• 3:22:44
  But actually Barbara can be a bit like this when it's talking
• 3:22:47
  about emotions and you sort of turn I his face away and I sort
• 3:22:50
  of spin around and go, well, you can just grow a pair and tell me
• 3:22:52
  how you're thinking. You know, like.
• 3:22:55
  I think it is a thing with men sometimes.
• 3:22:57
  Yeah, no, absolutely. But it feels like Susan's almost
• 3:23:00
  the one that doesn't want to talk, not about emotions more.
• 3:23:04
  But yeah, it is. They do keep turning away from
• 3:23:06
  each other. It's very odd.
• 3:23:07
  And you know, this period here where she's like, oh, David, I
• 3:23:10
  do. I do.
• 3:23:11
  I'm a bit much. At that point, I'll be thinking
• 3:23:15
  of I've got to listen to that voice for the rest of my life.
• 3:23:18
  You better be a bloody good shag, I'll tell you.
• 3:23:23
  But you know, Hartnell, everything I said about
• 3:23:27
  Hartnell, I absolutely, you know, I agree with.
• 3:23:29
  Obviously I said it. He had to ace this speech.
• 3:23:36
  Yeah, it's also, I think this speech gets a little bit lost in
• 3:23:40
  it's because it was reused in the Five Doctors.
• 3:23:42
  And actually the most touching bit of it is when he just says
• 3:23:45
  goodbye, Susan, goodbye my dear. Like, because obviously it's
• 3:23:48
  used out of context there and they use it in adventure and
• 3:23:50
  time and space as well, but it becomes more about the Doctor
• 3:23:54
  when it's out of context of like who the 1st Doctor is.
• 3:23:57
  But actually it's all about Susan, and it's a very touching
• 3:24:01
  speech, speech when you see it in context, I think.
• 3:24:04
  I think the bit that moves me the most is when the guy playing
• 3:24:09
  David finally does a bit of good acting and just very
• 3:24:12
  understatedly says he knew you'd never leave him.
• 3:24:16
  He doesn't fudge the line for once.
• 3:24:18
  Half the time he sounds like a robot man in this story saying
• 3:24:21
  his dialogue but. Yeah.
• 3:24:23
  He doesn't. And this, like Harnold's not
• 3:24:25
  afraid of the camera. This camera gets right in his
• 3:24:28
  face in a second. You've got to be pretty sure of
• 3:24:30
  yourself when you're that exposed.
• 3:24:32
  Yeah. Oh, we've both gone quiet.
• 3:24:37
  OK, we have. We have because it's a very
• 3:24:39
  touching scene. And this I think this.
• 3:24:41
  Whole episode or this one part where it was shot in 90 minutes?
• 3:24:46
  Or something like that really. Like I I've got a note here that
• 3:24:50
  says this was shot in 90 minutes and I'm assuming it's this last
• 3:24:52
  section, so it's a lot to get through.
• 3:24:56
  It can't have been the whole episode, but this, this I?
• 3:24:58
  Think, I think they only had a couple of hours in the evening
• 3:25:00
  to record the episodes. I mean, they would be black
• 3:25:02
  blocking it all day and yeah, but they just have the sort of
• 3:25:06
  the cameras for a couple of hours.
• 3:25:08
  I love as well how he strokes his lapel, Livo.
• 3:25:11
  He's famous for holding his lapels, but the way he strokes
• 3:25:13
  them, where he's having this more tender moment, you know,
• 3:25:17
  doing his classic television is very, very small.
• 3:25:19
  You've got to act for the television.
• 3:25:21
  And isn't it so moving in the rescue when he says, oh, Susan,
• 3:25:26
  would you open? Yeah.
• 3:25:28
  And they don't. He doesn't quite know what to
• 3:25:30
  do, does he? And then he and Barbara step in
• 3:25:32
  and like. Yeah, Babs, because why don't
• 3:25:34
  you show me how to open the door?
• 3:25:36
  So nice. There's, there's this lovely
• 3:25:38
  moment here where Susan reaches out to touch the where the
• 3:25:41
  TARDIS was like, like it might still be there, but it's just,
• 3:25:45
  it's just not. I just wanted to deliver a line
• 3:25:48
  a bit like one of Catherine Tate's characters going am I
• 3:25:51
  stuck here in this shit out and. This music as well is great.
• 3:25:58
  Yeah. Lovely.
• 3:25:59
  It sounds like a a drunk organ but I do what I really like
• 3:26:07
  about the 60s and they lose it in the 70s and 80s and I don't
• 3:26:11
  know why is they give time for these extended coders.
• 3:26:16
  Yeah, and it's, it's lovely. And that's what you get if
• 3:26:18
  you've got six parts and you know there's many a problem with
• 3:26:22
  the six parters, but it does give you little chance for
• 3:26:24
  these. But like, you had a six parter
• 3:26:26
  invasion of time and that's still that last scene with
• 3:26:29
  Leela. It's just so brief.
• 3:26:30
  And oh God, yeah, it's horrible. But that's Graham.
• 3:26:34
  Graham Williams refusing to let her go and then realising he's
• 3:26:37
  going to rather than. I think if you if you're going
• 3:26:41
  to like go on a 52 weeks of adventures with these
• 3:26:45
  characters, you owe it to the audience to give them a bit of
• 3:26:47
  time like this. Absolutely.
• 3:26:51
  They're still, they're still there, clutching hands, holding
• 3:26:53
  hands. It's like it, it takes a while.
• 3:26:56
  Like even in the Invasion of Time, that whole sequence would
• 3:26:59
  have been done in 30 seconds of screen time.
• 3:27:03
  Yeah. Quick K9 mark 2 and then.
• 3:27:06
  Crash into the Titans. That feels very totally weird.
• 3:27:09
  Miss you too, Savage. Right, let's get the box out.
• 3:27:11
  Let's go. Got a new mate, got a new best
• 3:27:14
  mate, Don't you worry. And then this, this sort of
• 3:27:18
  still of the next episode, the powerful enemy.
• 3:27:24
  It's not even that powerful the next enemy though, isn't it?
• 3:27:26
  Like. It's got a lot of lovely
• 3:27:30
  character stuff in. It.
• 3:27:31
  Oh yeah. It's an absolute Corker.
• 3:27:34
  Well, look, now I don't know if you know how this works at the
• 3:27:36
  end of the story, but oh, you do OK.
• 3:27:39
  I didn't prepare anything, but I know you're going to ask me
• 3:27:42
  three things that I love about. I can't remember what you tell
• 3:27:45
  me. You tell me.
• 3:27:46
  Oh, just three things that you would recommend.
• 3:27:49
  Dalek Invasion of Earth to people.
• 3:27:51
  It will bat 1 apiece each back and forth.
• 3:27:54
  Paul. Off you go.
• 3:27:55
  I am actually. As I said, I'm turning 90
• 3:27:59
  degrees, 360° on Richard Martin's direction here, and I'm
• 3:28:03
  going to say this is the best thing he directs, especially
• 3:28:05
  those last three episodes, and I think everybody should check it
• 3:28:08
  out for what he is capable of. That's a bold claim, honestly.
• 3:28:14
  That's the third time they've fallen, jumped, fallen out of
• 3:28:16
  their seats. I am going to say that the
• 3:28:21
  really impressive world building in this, I think it's such an
• 3:28:25
  obvious idea that Dalek invasion of and it probably could have
• 3:28:28
  just been a lot of sort of running around in action.
• 3:28:30
  But actually we meet a lot of characters from this time
• 3:28:33
  period. We learn a lot of detail.
• 3:28:35
  I like all the when they detail the, you know, the plague
• 3:28:38
  missile coming down and how the IT was sort of in stages and
• 3:28:42
  things like that. So I think in terms of a setting
• 3:28:47
  and visually with the sets, with the location work and all of
• 3:28:50
  that, I think it's one of the most vivid settings we've ever
• 3:28:53
  had in a Doctor Who story. Absolutely.
• 3:28:55
  And to kind of build on that a bit more, I would say the film
• 3:28:59
  work as well, which is sort of the direction and sort of the
• 3:29:02
  word building. It's just what the the film work
• 3:29:05
  in the minds and stuff like that really sells the the revolution
• 3:29:08
  at the end. And also the the scale of kind
• 3:29:11
  of the people enslaved and the stuff of empty London in the
• 3:29:14
  early episodes is just gorgeous. So yeah, I think the film work
• 3:29:17
  is my second point. He manages to get more suspense
• 3:29:21
  out of that shot of that swinging claw.
• 3:29:23
  Do you remember that one than he does throughout the entire
• 3:29:26
  sequence of the Dalek salsa being attacked in episode 2?
• 3:29:30
  It's clearly where a lot of his strengths are.
• 3:29:32
  My second thing then is going to be, oh, I didn't prepare
• 3:29:37
  anything. You know, it's not like I mean
• 3:29:38
  to be unprepared for this. OK, I'm going to give her a
• 3:29:42
  juice. It's Cara Anne Ford's leaving
• 3:29:45
  story. It's a story that probably gives
• 3:29:46
  her beyond the first episode and possibly the most to do.
• 3:29:52
  I buy the relationship between her and David.
• 3:29:56
  She is still a little bit whiny, but far less whiny than she can
• 3:29:59
  be in other stories. I think it's a really good exit
• 3:30:03
  for Susan, and I don't know why this happens, but the shit
• 3:30:06
  companions very often get great exits.
• 3:30:11
  It happened with Adric as well. I quite like the understated
• 3:30:15
  exit of Mail too if I'm honest, but it is quick.
• 3:30:19
  But yeah, so I'm going to say Susan.
• 3:30:23
  OK, And I'm going to go to the Doctor, which I know is an
• 3:30:26
  obvious one, but Arnall is just at his peak.
• 3:30:30
  He's owning the part. And the Doctor has become a
• 3:30:33
  hero. You know, he's there and he's
• 3:30:35
  like, I'm going to defeat the Daleks.
• 3:30:37
  And that's what he does. And the iconic shot of him in
• 3:30:40
  the Dalek kind of vision, the circle thing is just beautiful.
• 3:30:45
  And I just think it's also the little interactions he has with
• 3:30:48
  Susan and the other characters with David.
• 3:30:50
  And it's like he is owning that part.
• 3:30:53
  And he is he is Doctor Who is fully formed now as a character,
• 3:30:57
  I think. And that's down to William Hart.
• 3:30:59
  And my last thing then is going to be it's going to be those
• 3:31:03
  moments of quite understated horror that hit throughout this
• 3:31:07
  story that make it a little bit darker and a bit more graphic
• 3:31:11
  than it is. The Roboman with the the knife
• 3:31:14
  in his back, the the Roboman and the brother killing each other.
• 3:31:21
  There's not there's, there's some quite violent stuff in this
• 3:31:24
  which we kind of detail the bit where the Dalek goes kill him.
• 3:31:28
  And just murder. Someone randomly, yeah.
• 3:31:31
  Or the fellow who's off screen going no, you killed my brother.
• 3:31:34
  No like. It's a very violent story, it's
• 3:31:38
  savage, and it's just goes to show what a ruthless, horrible
• 3:31:42
  invasion this is. It's not like it's very easy for
• 3:31:46
  these sorts of invasions to be played quite 2 dimensionally,
• 3:31:50
  but they're the kind of horror aspects of this, and the
• 3:31:52
  ruthlessness of the Daleks really makes you go, Oh no,
• 3:31:55
  these people have all been through some shit over the last
• 3:31:58
  few years and it's just been relentless and everybody they
• 3:32:00
  know is dead and they're all exhausted.
• 3:32:05
  I'll tell you what, I think we've covered this in some depth
• 3:32:07
  now you know. I don't think anybody's got
• 3:32:10
  anything else left to say about. The no, that's it.
• 3:32:13
  We are done. We'll slide that into the into
• 3:32:17
  the wall then and we'll slide that hang on what we're doing
• 3:32:19
  next. We did agree on something.
• 3:32:21
  Oh yeah, demons. Of the Punjab demons of the
• 3:32:23
  Punjab yes, very exciting from one end of the series right up
• 3:32:27
  to the the more recent end. It's exciting to see those two
• 3:32:32
  eras. And as I said I earlier, I do
• 3:32:35
  think there's they've got a lot in common.
• 3:32:36
  So it'll be. For.
• 3:32:37
  Him to compare and contrast when we do that one.
• 3:32:40
  I think as well like this Punjab is pushing what Doctor Who can
• 3:32:46
  do visually. Yeah.
• 3:32:49
  But with modern TV and a modern budget, and I think it looks
• 3:32:56
  extraordinary. I I think everything about that
• 3:32:58
  episode is fairly extraordinary. Yeah, it's it's a lovely, lovely
• 3:33:01
  episode and I can't wait to revisit it again very soon.
• 3:33:05
  I'm just going to get this down on record just before you change
• 3:33:08
  your mind, but we're also going to be in the future doing all
• 3:33:12
  six episodes of the Flux season. We absolutely are and I cannot
• 3:33:16
  wait that because I love that season.
• 3:33:19
  Oh, I do too. So I cannot wait to to revisit
• 3:33:22
  it. I watched the Halloween
• 3:33:23
  apocalypse quite recently just as a one off just to watch it
• 3:33:26
  and I still thought it was one of the best openers of the
• 3:33:29
  season of Doctor Who. Ever brilliant, isn't it?
• 3:33:31
  And I, for me. War of the Suntarans and Village
• 3:33:36
  of the Angels. They're two of my favourites of
• 3:33:39
  the era, but they're two of my favourites of New Who as well.
• 3:33:43
  I mean, Warren Santo is probably possibly Chipnall's best script.
• 3:33:49
  I think Jodie Whittaker has never been better than she is in
• 3:33:52
  that story. Yeah, she's fantastic.
• 3:33:55
  Well, I can't wait to revisit those in the future.
• 3:33:59
  In. The future, well, that just
• 3:34:01
  leads me to say a massive thank you very much for your time.
• 3:34:05
  Busy man, but it's been an absolute delight.
• 3:34:08
  Oh, it's been a pleasure and I will come back anytime and talk
• 3:34:11
  about any Doctor Who related nonsense with you.
• 3:34:14
  You'll live to regret that statement.
• 3:34:19
  Boom boom boom. Amazing.
• 3:34:21
  Hey, we did. It we did indeed.
• 3:34:24
  Can't bring this out now.