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Unlikely Events That Shaped Pittsburgh Sports History · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:01
SPEAKER_01: Hi everybody, welcome to the Pittsburgh Sports Memories podcast.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: I am your co-host, Tim Hannon, and my other co-host is Steve Wirt.
0:11
SPEAKER_01: The affable Steve Wirt.
0:14
SPEAKER_02: Affable.
0:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh, nice.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what that word means.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: Let's say define, affable.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: Friendly, good nature, easy to talk to.
0:23
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: All right, I take it back.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: You're not affable.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: The least affable person.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, on this episode, we are going to talk about unlikely events that shape Pittsburgh sports history.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: So, Steve, are you familiar with the term butterfly effect?
0:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh is it when the butterflies come back from Capistrano?
1:01
SPEAKER_02: I know that's the that's the swallows.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: It sounds like a movie with Ashton Kutcher.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: It was a movie with Ashton Kutcher, which was the same principle, but it was coined when a meteorologist discovered that tiny little changes in an environment, butterfly type changes, could drastically alter the weather.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this concept, you know, exists in sports too, where events that seemingly had nothing to do with Pittsburgh sports teams ended up drastically altering the course of Pittsburgh sports history, and that's what we're that's what we're gonna talk about in this episode.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna start with some some plays, like single plays in games not involving Pittsburgh teams that that basically changed the the Pittsburgh Sports space-time continuum.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: Into this alternate 2024.
1:51
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Real to you and me, but uh somewhere along the history, the timeline skewed thanks to these events that we're gonna talk about.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna start with a 2003 game between the Minnesota Vikings and the Arizona Cardinals.
2:07
SPEAKER_02: Well, this couldn't possibly have any effect on us today.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's find out.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's the final week of the 2003 season.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Vikings and Cardinals are playing at Arizona, and the Vikings, they need a win.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's gonna involve uh, what's his name?
2:23
SPEAKER_02: Josh McNown, isn't it?
2:24
SPEAKER_01: It is.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: So the Vikings need a win to qualify for the playoffs, and lucky for them, because Arizona stinks.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: The Cardinals are 3-12, they're just playing out the string at this point.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: Sure enough, Minnesota is up 17-6 at the two-minute warning.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: So you figure, Steve, 17-6 at the two-minute warning.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: That's pretty much a guaranteed win, right?
2:44
SPEAKER_02: Not when you got Josh McNown at quarterback, too.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, the guy that Steve mentioned, Cardinals quarterback Josh McCallan, who ends up playing until like age fifty-four.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think he's just retired last season.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: He uh he throws a touchdown pass on fourth down to cut the deficit to 17-12.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: So they're already down to their last play.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: He gets a touchdown.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: Then the Cardinals have to do an onside kick, which they recover.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's such a low percentage play, but they recover an onside kick and they drive down the field, but at this point they're out of timeouts.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: And with under 30 seconds left, you're out of timeouts, you're trying to drive.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: What's the one thing you cannot do in that situation, Steve?
3:24
SPEAKER_02: Take a sack.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Take a sack.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: Or throw an interception.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, that would be bad too.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you you could understand an interception, though, in that situation.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: At least you're getting a pass off, right?
3:35
SPEAKER_01: But Josh McCown, who apparently graduated from the Kent Graham School of Quarterbacking, he takes a sack.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: So here's the situation.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: The Cardinals have the ball on the Minnesota 28-yard line.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: They've just taken a sack, and the clock is quickly ticking down to zero.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: So they're all trying to rush to the line of scrimmage in the hope of getting one last playoff.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: And here's the audio of that moment via announcer Paul Allen, who still to this day is the Minnesota Vikings' great play by play guy.
4:05
SPEAKER_03: And the clock continues to run, PA.
4:07
SPEAKER_03: 17, 16, 15.
4:09
SPEAKER_03: See, they have to go deep into the end zone.
4:12
SPEAKER_03: We better put some people in the end zone, right, Joe?
4:14
SPEAKER_03: That's exactly right.
4:15
SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's nobody inside the 10.
4:17
SPEAKER_03: Get back here.
4:17
SPEAKER_03: Here it is.
4:18
SPEAKER_03: The season's on the line.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: Two receivers left and right.
4:21
SPEAKER_03: McCown takes the snap.
4:23
SPEAKER_03: He steps up.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: He's all by himself.
4:26
SPEAKER_03: Fires into the end zone.
4:28
SPEAKER_03: Caught! Touchdown! No! No! The Cardinals have knocked the Vikings out of the playoffs! They're Minnesota Vikings crying on the field.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: I don't think Dante Colf ever really cared.
4:51
SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, I got a cruise to get to.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's one of the most improbable wins, probably, of this century in the end of the day.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: That was in Arizona, too.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: That was in Arizona.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you had this three-win team with nothing to play for.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: They hadn't done anything all day.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: Then they score a touchdown on their last play, like they're down to their last play, fourth down, they score a touchdown.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: They recover an onside kick, then throw this desperation pass into the corner of the end zone to knock the Vikings out of the playoffs.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: It's an all-time comeback.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: It's an all-time tragedy if you're a Minnesota Vikings fan.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: But Steve, what does any of this have to do with Pittsburgh?
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Why were we talking about this on a Pittsburgh podcast?
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, so had Arizona lost, they would have had the number one overall draft pick in the 2004 draft.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: By the time the draft comes, they had hired a new head coach, Denny Green, and they would have for sure taken Ole Miss quarterback, Eli Manning, with that number one pick.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Eli, of course, did not want to play for San Diego, but he's made it very clear over the years that that was specific to that organization.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: He and his dad felt that it was a poorly run organization where quarterbacks went to die, as evidenced by Ryan Leif and Drew Brees.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: And there's nothing to suggest that Eli had any problem with Arizona or with a coach as respected as Dennis Green was at the time.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: So if Minnesota had won that game, Arizona drafts Eli Manning, the Chargers would have gotten Philip Rivers just like they did in the original history.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: And then get guess who the Giants take, Steve?
6:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh what's his name?
6:25
SPEAKER_02: Kellen Winslow.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: No.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: No, they would have taken a quarterback, a tall quarterback.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: A guy named Ben Roethlisberger, Giants general manager Ernie Accorsi is on record saying he would have taken Ben had they not been able to swing that trade with the Chargers.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: In fact, he had even written Ben's name on the card.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he actually wrote Ben's name on the card.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: They were going to walk up to the podium had the Chargers not agreed to that trade.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: So had had there been no opportunity for a trade for Eli because the Cardinals just would have taken him, then Ben goes to the Giants, and that means that the Steelers probably end up with Sean Andrews at number eleven.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: Or Kellen Winslow.
7:04
SPEAKER_01: And they don't go on to win two Super Bowls or have 18 seasons of a guy who's top five passing.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: The Browns are still going to Browns, and probably.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: The Browns.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: I had to guess.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: That was uh what's his name?
7:23
SPEAKER_02: That was Claypool, wasn't it?
7:24
SPEAKER_02: Browns be Browns.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: So that miracle ending by the Cardinals ends up producing two championships here in Pittsburgh.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Josh McDowell.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the team was bad.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: There was nothing for them to play for, and and they pulled off this huge upset.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't just that they pulled off an upset.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they were getting killed all day and then they just had this miracle ending.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Two final footnotes on that, on that, Steve.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Number one, that play is an incompletion if it happens today.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Because Nate pulled the receiver, he only got one foot in bounds.
7:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh, there was no replay.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: There was a replay.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: Remember back then the role was if you were rolled to have gotten forced out.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the old force out rule.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Because it looks like if you look at it, it looks like the Holmes catch from the Super Bowl, ironically enough.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: It it does.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: But he if you look at the replay, he very clearly only gets his other foot is on the thigh of the Minnesota defender.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: But he gets he gets pushed out.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Now, today that rule is it doesn't matter.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: You can get pushed out.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: There's no subjective kind of rolling.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: So you could be sitting on top of three people, and if they drag you out of bounds.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: But back then the role was you well, if if the defender wouldn't have been there, he would have gotten two feet in.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: So that's why it's a completion.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: That would have been incomplete today, and then the Steelers don't get better.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: The other footnote is let's let's let's assume pretty safely that the Steelers don't go 15-1 in 2004 with Brian St.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: Pierre as their starting quarterback.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Right?
8:55
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a safe assumption.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe they would have won 14-2.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure, yeah.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Because that's who would have been their quarterback.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: Because Maddox and Bat still would have gotten hurt.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: That's who would have been their quarterback in 2004 is Brian St.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: Because I love Boston College quarterbacks.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: So so that means that they probably at worst have a mid-round selection in the 2005 draft.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Would they have drafted Aaron Rodgers?
9:21
SPEAKER_01: Because remember, that's the draft 2005.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: He fell, yeah.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess it all would have worked out the end.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: So so this is just your way of getting us Aaron Rodgers in Pittsburgh.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's it's it's just it's just a bunch of interesting what-ifs.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: And again, like that play, that whole sea sequence of events, and then that play, that's just so improbable that that happened.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: And if none of that happens, if they get stopped on fourth down, if the Vikings recover the onside kick, if they sack them and the game ends, uh you know, then then then history's very different.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: Alright, let's um let's talk about another play that didn't involve a Pittsburgh team.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: On September 18th, 1992, the Atlanta Braves are playing the Houston Astros.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: It's a late season game.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: The Braves are in first place in the National League West with a very slim lead over the Reds in the standings, so this is an important game for them.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: And then in 1992, the Braves are platooning two catchers, Damon Barry Hill and Greg Olsen.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: And it's Olsen who gets the start for this game.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: In the fourth inning, the Astros are up six to three, and they have Ken Kamenetti at third base with one out.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: Pete and Cavilla is at the plate, he hits a fly ball at a shallow right field, and I mean it's it's shallow.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: It's clearly not deep enough for a sack fly.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: But Kameniti says, you know what?
10:38
SPEAKER_01: Screw that, I'm Ken freaking Kamenetti.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: I can still beat the throw.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: So he takes off for home plate, somewhere between third base and home plate.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: Caminetti realizes he's going to be out by a country mile.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: So he does about the only thing he can do in that situation.
10:55
SPEAKER_04: Make a quick throw to Olsen, and the ball and the runner arrive simultaneously.
11:00
SPEAKER_04: And Olson gets drilled by Ken Kamenetti.
11:03
SPEAKER_04: He hung on to the baseball.
11:08
SPEAKER_04: But he is still down.
11:12
SPEAKER_02: Hey, that's the way you were allowed to run into the catcher.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: So uh this would also be a play that would never happen today.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: Because it'd be illegal.
11:22
SPEAKER_02: Men were men and boys are boys and dogs are dogs and cats are cats.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: Back then you were allowed to bowl over the catcher, and that's what Ken Kaminetti does.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: He collides with Greg Olson.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Olson's ankle gets caught in the city.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: He was.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: And and ends up it ends up hurting Greg Olson.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: He actually um breaks his ankle on that play.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: And he's he's designated out for the season that same night, which is seemingly a bad break for Atlanta because they're heading into the postseason.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: But what does any of this have to do with Pittsburgh?
11:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, for the playoffs that year, the Braves need a backup catcher to replace Greg Olson, so they call up a guy named Francisco Cabrera.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Fast forward to the bottom of the ninth inning of game seven against the Pirates, and it's Francisco Cabrera who gets the hit off of Stan Belinda that wins the series.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: And that that that would would have been Greg Olsen's at bat, not uh well maybe Greg Olson hits a home run, and you know, we're all you know disappointed anyway.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: It's it's entirely possible.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh for what it's worth, Greg Olson was a career 242 hitter who up to that point had never gotten a hit off of Stan Belinda.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, it doesn't mean that Greg Olson went and got a hit there too, but we know that Francisco Cabrera got a hit.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: So Greg Olson being at play at the plate would have at least guaranteed some kind of potential for a different result.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: And it's because of that collision in September.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: That's the only reason Cabrera's even on the postseason roster.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: We can all blame Kenon Caminetti.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes, Ken Caminetti ruined the pirates.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Ken Kamenetti.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: Appreciate that.
13:01
SPEAKER_02: Maybe there's a reason I didn't like that guy.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he wasn't yeah, I didn't he wasn't a big fan of his either.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: And then realizing that he was responsible for Francisco Cabrera being up with the plate makes me not like him even more.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: And and that you saw that play, Steve.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: I you can't see the video on the podcast, but that that was that was not a deep fly ball.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: I mean, why was he running there?
13:21
SPEAKER_01: It was just because he's like, whatever, I can I can do it.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: I can run really hard and just break the guy's ankle.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: Aggressive base running, Tim.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Aggressive base running.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, aggressive, sure.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: All right, let's uh let's go back to 1984 and uh the sounds like an ominous year.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: I heard they wrote a book about it.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: The Eagles are playing the 49ers.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: The 49ers are really good in 1984.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: In fact, they're gonna end up going 15-1 on their way to the Super Bowl.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: But in week four, they're playing at Veteran Stadium in Philadelphia, and they have a problem.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: Their starting quarterback, Joe Montana, is injured, so they have to start their backup, a guy named Matt Kavanaugh.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Kavanaugh, of course, is known around these parts as the quarterback of the 1976 Pitt National Championship.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: Hey, last time, yeah, last time Pitt won a national championship.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: And then later, as the Pitt offensive coordinator under Dave Wansted.
14:18
SPEAKER_02: They didn't win a national championship.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Now, you might you might think that that's the the Pittsburgh connection here, but it actually is not.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh Kavanaugh says after the game that he was pretty nervous, but he doesn't look nervous.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: He throws a 35-yard touchdown pass to Roger Craig in the first quarter, and then with just 12 seconds left before halftime, Kavanaugh finds Freddie Solomon in the end zone for his second touchdown of the game.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: So at this point, there's only 12 seconds left in the half.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: The 49ers don't want to take a risk on a long return on the ensuing kickoff.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: So plays kicker Rayworking, he squibs his kick, and here is that play.
15:00
SPEAKER_06: I have a feeling he might be doing it today on that second game of the double header.
15:05
SPEAKER_06: Handled by a member of the wedge.
15:12
SPEAKER_06: He tried to kick that one a little low and tried to get it into that vacuum area back there so that nobody could run the back at all.
15:18
SPEAKER_06: 11-yard return.
15:20
SPEAKER_06: Looks like he got dinged a little bit.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: I think I know who that is who got dinged a little bit.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so what happens on that play is that because it's a squib kick, it bounces to the area where there are like three big wedge blockers, and it's fielded by one of those guys, a big defensive lineman named Thomas Struthers, and the other wedge guys immediately try to block for him.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: And that play goes nowhere, just like you would expect, right?
15:46
SPEAKER_01: You're doing a squib kick, it's the up back, it's just gonna get stuffed after two yards.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: But as you heard in that audio, someone got dinged up, and it's a linebacker for the Eagles wearing number 57.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: Steve.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: Is it William Laird Cower?
15:58
SPEAKER_01: It is Bill Cower.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: He badly injures his knee on the play, and he's out for the rest of the season.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: Oh, gee, I hope that doesn't uh hurt his career.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: And and that veteran stadium turf, I mean, that was like concrete.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: That was always notorious.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're playing in a parking lot.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: So, so to your point, Steve, the following offseason, Cower's trying to rehab the knee, and he gets a call from his old defensive coordinator in Cleveland, a guy named Marty Schottenheimer, who has just taken over as the head coach of the Browns.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: And he asked Cower, hey, would you like to be an assistant coach on my new staff?
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Cower is only 27 years old at this point.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: So, 27, you've still got several years of good football potentially left in your career, except he has this terrible knee injury, and he's already kind of a borderline NFL player.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: So he decides, you know, I could try to rehab the knee, I could try to come back, I could try to catch on with the team as a backup or as a special teams player or whatever.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: But he decides that, you know, he probably will have better luck trying his hand at coaching.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: I wonder how that's going to turn out for him.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, fast forward about 35 years, and Bill Cower has inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame as one of the greatest Steel Horse coaches ever.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh had he ever at his knee, Cower says, quote, I could be teaching school right now.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: He says, I remember the spot and I remember the play.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
17:26
SPEAKER_02: And Ray Wershing, the last guy to kick a drop kick in the NFL.
17:29
SPEAKER_02: No, free kick.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: I think he's yeah, the the fair catch kick, whatever.
17:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: He's the last guy to do that.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, and they were just they the Matt Kavanaugh throwing that touchdown pass with 12 seconds left.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, if there would have been uh 30 seconds left, he or a minute left, he probably kicks it deep.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: He just does that squid kick and and Cower gets hurt on that play, and that's what leads to the end of his of his playing career and the start of his coaching career.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: So pretty pretty interesting how that worked out.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Um for for what it's worth, here were the other guys who the Steelers had interviewed in 1992 when they did hire Bill Cower.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: So they interviewed Rod Rust, who had been the defensive coordinator under Chuck Noel at one point.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: They interviewed Kevin Gilbright, who later became the offensive coordinator under Cower.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: They interviewed Dave Wansted and they interviewed Joe Green.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, two of those guys were just courtesy interviewed, like, eh, we're being nice.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, Cower says that he was told, and and I don't this was not verified by Dan Rooney, I don't think, but he was told that the three finalists were him, Weinstead, and Joe Green.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: Really, Joe Green.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: I've never heard like well, I mean, he coached for a while, but I never heard him seriously mention their head coach.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: I I I I would have, yeah.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: I I I I kind of tend to doubt that too, that the SORs would have seriously considered hiring him.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: But I I could have seen them hiring Wanstead.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Wanstead was their type of coach 100%.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, who knows what happens with Dave Wanstead at that point.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: He's in the Hall of Fame.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: No.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh probably not.
19:07
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you have Matt Kavanaugh as your offensive coordinator along the way.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you probably would have definitely had that.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: That's one thing you could have banged on.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, isn't that crazy?
19:17
SPEAKER_01: Like that little squid kick is why the Steelers probably ended up with Bill Cower.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: Because if he plays three or four more years, he he may maybe he gets into cooking eventually.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: But remember, Marty Schottenheimer by that point had built a really uh powerful team in Cleveland, and I doubt he's looking for assistance, really young, inexperienced assistance at that point.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: And even if he is, then Cower still has to spend several years working his way up.
19:40
unknown: Yeah.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: So it's an interesting turn of events.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
19:46
SPEAKER_02: The butterfly has flapped its wings on that one.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: Thank God for Ray Worshing in his techno bull glory.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: And Matt Kavanaugh.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: Let's give Matt Kavanaugh some credit too there too, throwing that touchdown pass.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that late touchdown pass.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: Before we move on to our next unlikely moment, we just wanted to take a moment to tell you about fanatics.com.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: It's the place to go to get your Steelers, Penguins, or Pirates apparel.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: They sell hats, coats, t-shirts, hoodies, all kinds of other great stuff.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: They also sell Steeler jerseys for any player past or present.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: So whether you want a Joey Porter Jr.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: jersey or a Joey Porter senior jersey, or heck, even if you wanted a number 57 Bill Cower Eagles jersey, you can get it at Fanatics using the link in the show description.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: And you will be supporting the show at the same time, helping us earn commission that we can use towards providing more great content for this podcast.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Again, check out the show description for that link to fanatics.com.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: All right, so those those three things we mentioned were literally plays.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Let's let now let's talk about something a little different.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: Let's go back to 1985 and let's go about as far away from Pittsburgh as possible.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: Let's go to Moscow.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful city.
21:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love communism.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: Who doesn't these days?
21:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, except for the people of Moscow in 1985, they didn't like communism very much.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: There's there's a woman in Moscow in 1985 by the name of Tatiana Ovichkina.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: She had been a star basketball player for the Soviets.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: She won two Olympic gold medals, the 1975 World Championship, and six European championships.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: In fact, the Soviets never even once lost a game in an official international competition with Tatiana as the captain of their basketball team.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: So that's pretty impressive.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: By this point in her career, she's 35 years old.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: She decides she's done with her basketball career, she wants to start a family.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: She and her husband conceive a baby, and on September 17, 1985, she gives birth to a baby boy by the name of Alexander.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Alexander Ovechkin.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Growing up, Alexander.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: He's not into basketball like his mom, said he's into another sport, hockey, so much so that he starts playing it, he becomes pretty darn good at it.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: By the time he's a teenager, a lot of NHL teams are starting to take notice.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: And when the 2003 NHL draft rolls around, Alexander Ovechkin is a prime prospect.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: But there's a problem.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: We mentioned that Tatiana gave birth to Alexander on September 17th.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, NHL draft roles stipulate the players are not eligible for the draft unless their 18th birthday falls by September 15th.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: When was he born?
22:34
SPEAKER_01: The 17th.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: Two days.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: Aveckin misses being eligible for the draft by two days, and he has to wait a full calendar year to go to the NHL.
22:45
SPEAKER_01: So how does that impact Pittsburgh, Steve?
22:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, guess who had the number one pick in 2003?
22:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think we did, yes.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we did.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: And we drafted Malkin, do you believe?
22:57
SPEAKER_01: No, we drafted Flurry.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: Oh, Flurry.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that was the Flurry, yeah.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so the Penguins could have conceivably had Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malgin all on the same team.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: But it would have hurt not having a goaltender.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: They wouldn't have had Flurry.
23:11
SPEAKER_02: We needed to score a lot of goals.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then do they beat the Red Wings in 2009 without Flurry there to make that save?
23:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: So that's crazy to think about.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Now, here's another wrinkle.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: That number one pick wasn't ours outright.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: It had been traded to the Penguins by the Florida Panthers.
23:29
SPEAKER_01: The Penguins originally had the third pick and traded up the number one.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: So if Ovechkin is eligible, do the Panthers hang on to that pick?
23:36
SPEAKER_01: And let's explore that scenario for a moment.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: If the Panthers wind up with Ovechkin, is it Pittsburgh, Florida that has that rivalry all those years instead of Pittsburgh, Washington?
23:45
SPEAKER_02: Doesn't Kite have the same ring to it, does it?
23:48
SPEAKER_02: That those uh all those great Penguin Panther games.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: Right?
23:53
SPEAKER_01: Or do they build a team around him that Washington did, right?
23:57
SPEAKER_01: The the second pick in that draft belonged to Carolina, who had a very weak goaltending situation at the time.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: So did they take Fleury instead of Eric Stahl?
24:05
SPEAKER_01: And if Flurry is on the hurricanes in 2009, do they beat the Penguins in the conference finals that year?
24:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's not giving up tons of goals to Bulkin, probably.
24:16
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: So so the point being here that Ovechkin missing that deadline by 48 hours creates all sorts of chaos in the sport space-time continuum of sports.
24:27
SPEAKER_02: If only she had been pregnant like uh, you know, a m a week earlier or something, yeah.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: You never know.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, you and and just think about that, Steve.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: Think about it like a pregnancy and all the factors there.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, babies come early, babies come late.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: Heck, Tatiana may have been in labor on the night of the 15th, but the baby didn't come until the 17th, right?
24:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: So just like just hours, literally hours difference.
24:48
SPEAKER_02: I blame socialized medicine.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, that was that was that was crazy.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just just two days and he and that impacted Ovechkin's career too, because you know, at the time of this recording, he's going for that all-time goals record.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: He could have had a whole other season.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: So crazy to think that her having that baby at that point really impacted so many things, including you know, the penguins trajectory.
25:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, that would have been that would have been I've always said it would be interesting to see Crosby and Ovechkin on the same team.
25:26
SPEAKER_02: I I think they would be he would be the perfect wing wing winger for Crosby.
25:35
SPEAKER_02: Ovechkin has a lot of goals now.
25:36
SPEAKER_02: He might he might have broke Gretzky's Radker with Crosby passing him the puck.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's that's a that's an interesting, again, butterfly effect thing there.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Um so for for our next one.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: We had said that Josh McCowan is indirectly responsible for two Steelers Super Bowls.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: Do you know who is indirectly responsible for all six Steelers Super Bowls, Steve?
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Indirectly responsible for all six?
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
26:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't know.
26:09
SPEAKER_02: Is it is it a historical figure?
26:12
SPEAKER_01: It is the Oakland Athletics.
26:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh, of baseball?
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: What?
26:18
SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about, Tim?
26:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, there you go.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: What you talking about, Willis?
26:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh so before we get there, let's once again hop in the podcast time machine.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna go further back, I'm pretty sure, than we've ever gone before on this show.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: All the way back to the year 1682.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
26:38
SPEAKER_02: So the pilgrims are playing baseball before it was invented?
26:42
SPEAKER_01: So what happens in 1682 is Pennsylvania enacts a law that creates a ban on, quote, whoever does or performs any worldly employment or business whatsoever on the Lord's Day, commonly called Sunday.
26:55
SPEAKER_02: We are Quakers, Tim.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: We ain't gonna be doing no sports or transacting nothing.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Or uses or practices any game hunting-shooting sport or diversion whatsoever on the same day, nothing.
27:07
SPEAKER_02: You should be in church, Tim, without any instruments, singing with your natural voice that God gave you because that's how the Quakers worship.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: That's and that's exactly that's I mean, you it that's exactly what that law was.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: It's a blue law.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: You can play sports on any day of the week, but not Sunday.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, so you'd think, okay, fine.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: That like like Except for those heathens out in the West, they they can play lacrosse all they want.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, and and like you said, Steve, that's Pennsylvania was a Quaker settlement at the time.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: You'd think that that law probably went away when it became a state, but nope.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: It survives for hundreds of years, and it's still in place verbatim by the 1930s, like exactly how it was written in 1682.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: That's still on the books.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: Actually, I kind of I I I mean I kind of like like stuff being closed on as I've gotten older, I like the stuff being closed on Sundays.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily like, you know, playing a sport, but you know, do I really need to go to like Walmart on a Sunday?
28:11
SPEAKER_02: Can't I wait till Monday or do it on Saturday?
28:13
SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, give give the people like a day off, you know.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: We'll make enough money.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: Like there's other businesses do that, Chick-fil-A and Hobby Lobby.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: They seem to make enough money to get by and their employees are okay.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
28:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying you gotta close the hospitals or anything.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously, you know, police officers and firefighters and such are gonna have to work.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: So you're saying we should we should go back to Quaker?
28:36
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying we need a law to state it, I'm just saying it would be nice if more businesses closed on Sunday.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: But I'm getting old, I guess.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: No, I I'm I'm with you on that.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm with you.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: I voluntarily close, not right.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: And it would be nice, like you said, they're they'd give their people, you know, a day with their families too.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: So so after World War One, Pennsylvanians are starting to think, like, hey, maybe this is antiquated.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you figure, I mean, they're they're fighting battles in World War One on a Sunday.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: Why can't we play sports?
29:07
SPEAKER_01: So one of the places it really boils over is in Philadelphia, where they have a really popular baseball team called That would be the Connie Mack steamed, the Philadelphia Athletics.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: They win the World Series in 1929, they repeat in 1930, and then they actually come within one game of making it a three-peat when they lose Game 7 of the 31 World Series to the Cardinals.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh the A's are owned and managed, as Steve said, by a guy named Connie Mack.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: He's starting to feel the pinch financially of what it takes to field a competitive team every year, and he's looking for new revenue streams.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: And remember, there's no TV in the 1930s, so you're making all your money at the gate, and there's also no night games in the 1930s.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: So you're depending a lot on weekday baseball games when people are mostly at work.
29:54
SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, there's this day on the weekend called Sunday when most people are off of work, but the A's can't play games on Sundays because of the 1682 blue law.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: It all comes full circle, doesn't it?
30:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: So so they decide, you know what, we're gonna we're gonna try to challenge it.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: And at first, the A's just try playing games on Sundays to see if anyone will try to stop them.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: And they're surprised to find out that yes, there are still a group of people who care about the law.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: They even get taken to court.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: So they decide, okay, that that strategy is not gonna work.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Instead, they realize that they need to get the law actually changed.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: So the A's lobby the Pennsylvania legislature to alter the law, and they find a lot of sympathetic voices, probably a lot of lawmakers who agree that it's antiquated, but also a lot of lawmakers who want to get re-elected because the A's also drum up a bunch of public support for this.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: And polls show that voters across the state, especially in the big cities, approve of this measure by seven to one margins.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, Steve, that getting anybody to agree on anything by a seven to one margin is pretty remarkable.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is pretty impressive.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: So in 1933, they pass a compromise referendum that says baseball and football could be played on Sunday between two o'clock and six o'clock p.m.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: It's not, you just can't play any any time of the day, but you can play between those hours.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: It works out well.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: People can still go to church in the mornings, but you can play your games in the afternoons.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: So the voters overwhelmingly approve of this at the ballot box, and the A's start holding Sunday baseball games, hurrah.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: But how does this impact Pittsburgh?
31:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, you probably already guessed.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: In 1933, there's a businessman in Pittsburgh named Art Rooney.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: He's been trying to get into the pro football world for years.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: In the 1920s, he had started a semi-pro team called the Hope Harveys, but they also had limitations because of the blue laws.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: And for football, it's even worse than baseball, Steve, because at least baseball you could play on Saturdays.
31:51
SPEAKER_01: But football you couldn't because college.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: Right.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, and and no fan would have dared choose pro football for college football back then had they been playing on the same day.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: So even though even though the NFL had been around for 13 years at this point, Rooney, along with any other potential Pittsburgh football owner, never bothered to apply for a team because he knew he wouldn't make any money not being able to play on Sundays.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, when the blue law was revised in 1933 to allow for Sunday football, guess who starts a NFL football team in Pittsburgh?
32:23
SPEAKER_01: It's Art Rooney.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, and his bird bell starts it in Philadelphia.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
32:29
SPEAKER_01: That's absolutely right.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: So both of those teams are born after the blue law is changed, and of course, both of those teams are still playing to this day to the love and enjoyment of all of us fans here in Pittsburgh.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: And here is the teeth remembering that.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: We had the blue laws in Pennsylvania.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: You weren't allowed to play on Sundays.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: You weren't allowed to do practically anything on Sundays.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: And uh they voted the blue laws out in 1933.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: And when they voted the blue laws out, I was a friend of Joe Carr, who was the president of the National Football League.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: And I just took my team, which was the best team, I think, around here.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: And I you can get a lot of arguments about that.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: And I just took it into the National Football League for$2,500.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: And I could have got a lot cheaper if I would have argued.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: It's just like, oh, it's the best team round here.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: Just the way he says that.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: That's like such a north side Pittsburgh.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: And I love how he said he could have gotten a team for a lot cheaper.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Had he just bargained?
33:36
SPEAKER_02: He was a character, man.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: I gotta love that guy.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that that's the reason the Steelers exist, because the the A's who now play in Oakland and soon to play in Las Vegas, they were successful at the time.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: They had a bunch of fans support behind them, and people said, you know, it's time.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: It's time to change this law.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: And and the A's pushed for it, and that's why there's a football team in Pittsburgh.
34:03
SPEAKER_02: Yay, Connie Mack.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: Who who uh funny enough had been fired by the pirates about 30 years before that.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: Gall comes full circle.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: All comes full circle.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: All right, let's go to another time and place that seemingly has little to do with Pittsburgh.
34:22
SPEAKER_01: It's the campus of Sacramento State College in 1969.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: I wonder what was happening there.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: Probably a lot of uh war protests.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was just thinking that, yeah.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: Peace, love, hope.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Summer love.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: Hippies sitting out on the grass.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: That's all I just imagined the entire 60s.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: Man, Nixon sucks, man.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, one thing, one thing I can tell you for sure that was happening there was there's a broadcasting major by the name of Len Shapiro.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: And he's working for the Sacramento Ice Hockey Association while he completes his degree.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: And one night he asks a fellow broadcasting major, hey, want to come to the hockey game with me tonight?
35:02
SPEAKER_01: And the other student who's a native Californian, he's like, Yeah, you know, I'm a baseball guy.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm just really not that into hockey.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: No thanks.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh and he he says, quote, what do I know about hockey?
35:14
SPEAKER_01: There's a red line, a blue line.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: What else?
35:16
SPEAKER_01: I haven't got a clue about hockey.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: And he and he tells his friend, I'm no man, I don't want to sit down and watch a sport that I don't even understand.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: But Len Shapiro keeps pushing and pushing.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: He says, Come on, just come anyway.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: You never know.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, the fellow student was a guy named Mike Lang.
35:32
SPEAKER_01: And he finally relents and he says, Okay, fine, I'll come to your stupid hockey game.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: And sure enough, Mike Lang likes the sport, and he even gets a job with the local team there, breaking the penalty box.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: The following season, which is Mike Lang's senior year, the team announcer quit because he wanted a raise from the$5 per game he was getting paid to announce.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: And Mike Lang is a college student.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: He's like, sure, I'll call games for$5, right?
35:59
SPEAKER_01: That'll buy me some pizza and beer.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: And that becomes his first ever broadcasting gig.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: From there, he works a few other jobs in hockey, and he ultimately winds up in Pittsburgh in 1974 to call games for the city's fledgling NHL franchise, the Penguins.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Fast forward 50 years, and Lang, who's now retired, is one of Pittsburgh's most beloved sports figures.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: His voice will be forever recognized by generation of Penguins fans, all because a guy named Lang Shapiro was persistent about getting him to come out to a game that night back in 1969.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize Lang had been with the Penguins through the bad, like the really bad times, like in 74.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:38
unknown: Yeah.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he was there almost their entire existence.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: Really?
36:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:42
unknown: Yeah.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: Um Mike Lang uh is a big believer in fate.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: He says that going to that game at Sacramento uh State that night literally changed his life.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, you could you could can't argue that.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: So and and since I really have nothing else to say about that, enjoy this little tribute to Mike Lang that the team did when he retired in 2021.
37:08
SPEAKER_05: It's a hockey night in Pittsburgh.
37:10
SPEAKER_05: Tonight from the Civic Arena, the Penguins meet the New York Islanders.
37:13
SPEAKER_03: Hock into the net.
37:14
SPEAKER_03: Here he comes.
37:14
SPEAKER_03: It shoots and scores.
37:16
SPEAKER_03: Harriet Amir, out freight, falls a fire.
37:19
SPEAKER_05: The Stanley Cup has come to the city of Pittsburgh.
37:22
SPEAKER_05: The 1991 Stanley Cup champions, the Pittsburgh Penguins.
37:27
SPEAKER_06: The armor yonger, ladies and gentlemen, is just left the movie.
37:32
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, but a cooler shot.
37:41
SPEAKER_05: It's a hockey night in Pittsburgh.
37:43
SPEAKER_05: It's a hockey night in Pittsburgh.
37:45
SPEAKER_05: And I'll meet you in the schoolyard, baby, for all the marbles.
37:48
SPEAKER_03: I got the marbles!
37:51
SPEAKER_05: This is absolutely a great thrill.
37:54
SPEAKER_05: It really is, no matter if it happens once, twice, three, four, five times.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: And ladies and gentlemen, Elvis has just left the building.
38:06
SPEAKER_02: That's pretty crazy, though.
38:08
SPEAKER_02: Like I couldn't imagine the emotion he was feeling in '91 after, like, oh my gosh, Baz Basteen wrecking his car, the losing to the Islanders after being up three games, the nun.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, everything he had been through.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Bankruptcy.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, bankruptcy.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: He I guess he wasn't there at least for Brere.
38:29
SPEAKER_02: But like, oh my goodness.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: That like he had been through a lot with the team and to finally see them, you know, win a win a championship, and then you know, got the three, three or four more.
38:38
SPEAKER_02: I mean, good for him.
38:39
SPEAKER_02: Good for him.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: He he's really the only constant, too.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: Because ownership had changed multiple times.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he was there before Mario.
38:47
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: Just just an all-time Pittsburgh legend, right?
38:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't I don't know how else to say it.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: Just an all-time Pittsburgh legend.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: And and it's just, you know, it's amazing.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, once you come to the hockey game that night and he didn't want to go.
39:03
SPEAKER_01: He was he didn't like hockey.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: He didn't even know what what it how it worked.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: He was a baseball guy.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: He wanted to be in baseball.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: He did announce pirate games.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: We talked about that on another episode.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: People don't remember that.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, but baseball was a sport he loved, and then he ends up becoming this beloved hockey figure.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, never know where life's gonna take you.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: That's that's exactly right.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: All right, we did a lot of events that had nothing to do with Pittsburgh at the time impacting a Pittsburgh sports team.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: So let's finish this episode with a game that actually did involve a Pittsburgh sports team.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna go back to the year 1988.
39:37
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers are playing the Kansas City Chiefs at Three River Stadium.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: It's late in the season, and both teams stink.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers are 2-10.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: The Chiefs are 3-8-1.
39:49
SPEAKER_02: Is it the is Christian Okoye still with them?
39:53
SPEAKER_01: I think this was the year before Christian Okoye.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: To the surprise of no one, it's not a particularly good game.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Lots of field goals, lots of turnovers, lots of penalties.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers have a 16-10 lead in the final minutes, but Kansas City comes marching down the field for a potential game-winning score.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: The Steelers have one really truly great player on that terrible team.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: It's cornerback Rod Woodson, who again we've talked about on the show before we had him in our undergradest players episode.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: We had him pretty high.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: He had already made a huge interception in the end zone to kill a Kansas City drive earlier in the fourth quarter, which would have given them the lead.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: And now on this final drive, he makes another interception to seal the win.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: But hold everything, flag on the play, and it's on Pittsburgh.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: So Kansas City keeps driving.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: That was kind of that team that year.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: The 88 Steelers just couldn't stop shooting themselves in the foot.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, it comes down to one final play.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: The Chiefs have the ball on the Steelers' 14-yard line with five seconds to play.
40:51
SPEAKER_01: Remember, it's a six-point lead.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: So a touchdown wins it for Kansas City.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: An incomplete pass wins it for Pittsburgh.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: Steve, any guesses who who your quarterback is for the 1988 Kansas City Chiefs?
41:02
SPEAKER_02: 1988.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
41:04
SPEAKER_02: Steve De Berg.
41:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: You are correct.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow, what a guess.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: It's Steve De Berg.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes, very impressive.
41:13
SPEAKER_01: He drops back to pass, and he sees that the Steelers have inexplicably left wide receiver Kittrick Taylor wide open in the back of the end zone.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh again, like I said, about shooting themselves in the foot.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: They blow coverage somewhere.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: This receiver, Kittrick Taylor, he's wide open.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: So De Berg throws it, uh, but he throws it a little too high.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: Taylor leaps and the ball glances off his fingertips, falls to the ground, game over.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: Steelers win.
41:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh yay.
41:44
SPEAKER_02: What do we have?
41:44
SPEAKER_02: Four wins?
41:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that gets the Steelers to four wins.
41:48
unknown: Yeah.
41:48
SPEAKER_01: Linebacker Greg Lloyd, who was the closest person to the wide open Taylor, says, quote, I was praying it was over his head.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: It was scary.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: If that ball had been level, we lose.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: Center Mike Webster says, quote, I've never said the rosary that many times, and I'm not even Catholic.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: It's a super lucky break for the Steelers.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: They get the W because Steve De Bird couldn't hit a wide open receiver.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: But I mean, like you said, who cares, right?
42:12
SPEAKER_01: It makes the Steelers 3-10 instead of 2-11.
42:15
SPEAKER_01: What's the difference?
42:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, fast forward to April and the 1989 NFL draft.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Had Steve DeBurr completed that pass, it would have moved the Steelers from the number seven overall pick to the number three overall pick in that draft.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: And they would have had their choice between the following three players, Steve.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: Barry Sanders, Derek Thomas, or Dion Sanders.
42:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of glad.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of glad he missed that pass.
42:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, two of those guys.
42:44
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't have put up with Dion, I'm sorry.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, could you imagine those 1990s Cower run first teams with Barry Sanders as the running back?
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Could you imagine a linebacking core with Greg Lloyd and Derek Thomas?
42:55
SPEAKER_01: And I know you don't like Deion Sanders, but could you imagine a secondary with both Rod Woodson and Deion Sanders?
43:00
SPEAKER_02: Nobody's throwing the ball on us.
43:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:03
SPEAKER_02: The two best corners of all time, arguably.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you wouldn't have even completed a pass.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: Now imagine the losses to the Chargers in the championship game or the Cowboys in the Super Bowl.
43:14
SPEAKER_02: Well, we're not we're making a Super Bowl.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: We're not that yeah, Tony Martin isn't getting by Deion Sanders.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: Imagine one of those players instead of Tim Rowley, the guy that the Steelers settled on with their number seven pick.
43:29
SPEAKER_03: Tim Morley.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: So the legacy of those 1990 Stewart's teams that were always so close but could never win a Super Bowl could have been very different had Steve DeBird just thrown the ball a few inches lower.
43:40
SPEAKER_02: A little lower.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: You're seeing we would have had seven Super Bowls already.
43:44
SPEAKER_01: I I I mean it would have been very different.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: Any like I said, any one of those all three of those players are Hall of Famers and all-time greats.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: But like I said, small, small little things, right?
43:59
SPEAKER_01: The singular plays, game of inches, uh that's the butterfly effect that we talked about at the beginning of the episode.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: Or the Dion effect.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: The Coach Prime effect.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: So that's our episode.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed that.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I thought it was just pretty interesting to look back at these just little tiny things that really uh altered the trajectory of Pittsburgh sports history, things that you wouldn't think really mattered at the time, or or things that had nothing to do with Pittsburgh, but really did have a large impact.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: Thank you everybody for listening to this show and your your continued support.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: You can always find us on Facebook or Twitter.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh you can always contact the show uh via email.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: There's a bunch of links in the show description for all that stuff.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh we also appreciate all the time, word of mouth, telling other people about the podcast.
44:49
SPEAKER_01: That's how we we tend to attract new listeners.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: So thanks again, and we will catch you next time.