Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SHOCK EVIDENCE: L.I. SERIAL KILLER KEEPS VICTIMS ALIVE FOR DAYS TO "PLAY" WITH THEM BEFORE MURDERS

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SHOCK EVIDENCE: L.I. SERIAL KILLER KEEPS VICTIMS ALIVE FOR DAYS TO "PLAY" WITH THEM BEFORE MURDERS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:06
Speaker 2: Shucking evidence emerging in the last days. Did the Long
0:11
Speaker 2: Island serial killer actually keep his victims alive, alive for
0:18
Speaker 2: days to play with them his words, not mine, in
0:22
Speaker 2: order to play with them before he murdered them? I mean,
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Speaker 2: you see, Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
0:31
Speaker 2: being with us.
0:32
Speaker 3: Six women found dead, mutilated, and dismembered on Long Island Beach.
0:38
Speaker 3: Investigators believe there is one thread connecting them all.
0:43
Speaker 2: Rex Hureman, that's the thread. Now we said six, but
0:48
Speaker 2: I guarantee you there are going to be more victims uncovered.
0:52
Speaker 2: Victims of the Long Island serial killer. A local architect,
0:57
Speaker 2: Rex Hureman, in life days.
1:00
Speaker 1: He has been.
1:01
Speaker 2: Officially charged with two more women's murders, not just the
1:06
Speaker 2: gilg for and I expect another to be named in
1:09
Speaker 2: the near future, that victim being Valerie Mack. But you
1:15
Speaker 2: couldn't make this up. Where am I getting this knowledge.
1:20
Speaker 2: I'm getting it from a document, A document that coincides
1:25
Speaker 2: with corroborating evidence, sightings of the victim's phone calls from
1:30
Speaker 2: the victims, train rides by the victims, victims that left
1:35
Speaker 2: and never came back. All of that extrinsic evidence coincides
1:41
Speaker 2: with a document, a very detailed document that was erased
1:46
Speaker 2: by the Long.
1:47
Speaker 1: Island serial killer.
1:48
Speaker 2: The alleged serial killer erased by him, But as any
1:52
Speaker 2: computer expert will tell you, you can never erase anything
1:56
Speaker 2: on your computer. I also learned, after researching and investigating
2:01
Speaker 2: this that rex Hureerman tried to not only erase.
2:05
Speaker 1: It, but he also perfected it. Over years.
2:10
Speaker 2: He would toy with and tinker with this document as
2:13
Speaker 2: he perfected his mode of murder, but keeping a victim
2:20
Speaker 2: alive for days on and so he could play with him.
2:26
Speaker 2: Where am I getting that word from his doc? His document?
2:30
Speaker 2: He is so called planning document that was found on
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Speaker 2: his computer.
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Speaker 4: First of all, listen to this alleged serial killer, rex
2:39
Speaker 4: Huerman may have kept his victims alive to inflict pain
2:42
Speaker 4: and torture them for multiple days. Investigators using calendars for
2:46
Speaker 4: the Hureman family to determine when rex Huerman has the
2:49
Speaker 4: house all to himself while his wife and children are
2:52
Speaker 4: not at home, and comparing those dates today, some of
2:55
Speaker 4: his alleged victims went missing.
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Speaker 5: Well, okay, more rest, more playtime and soa.
3:00
Speaker 6: What he's talking about is, well, what the allegation, and
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Speaker 6: what we would allege is the more rested, you know,
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Speaker 6: the participants are, the more you can get done. And
3:12
Speaker 6: he also talks about the or The document also talks
3:15
Speaker 6: about crime scene and if you're sleepy and spending too
3:19
Speaker 6: much time in a crime scene or your lack of sleep,
3:21
Speaker 6: your chances of making mistakes increase. So again there's a
3:24
Speaker 6: lot of evincing of intent in that document.
3:28
Speaker 1: Okay, I really don't know what to say after that.
3:30
Speaker 1: And I like this guy.
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Speaker 2: You're hearing the Suffolk County District Attorney right Tierney's speaking.
3:36
Speaker 2: But I just referred to the participants. You mean the
3:41
Speaker 2: murder victims, the lady murder victims, And as we learn
3:45
Speaker 2: from you Romin's document, the smaller and more petite the lady,
3:50
Speaker 2: the more he liked it. He's a huge, hulking guy,
3:53
Speaker 2: got away close to three hundred pounds, towering. He was
3:56
Speaker 2: described by some witnesses as looking like an ogre. A
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Speaker 2: participant and at least four days of physical torture, including
4:08
Speaker 2: suspending the women.
4:12
Speaker 1: In the air.
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Speaker 2: From the roof and walls of his torture chamber.
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Speaker 1: The participant my rear end. Here's the guy. This is
4:25
Speaker 1: how everybody else saw him.
4:26
Speaker 2: Now this is how we see him today, joining me
4:29
Speaker 2: in an all star panel to make sense of what
4:32
Speaker 2: we are learning, keeping the victims alive for days to
4:37
Speaker 2: quote play with them before I tell you more straight
4:42
Speaker 2: out to renounced psycho analysts. Doctor Bethany Marshall, author of
4:47
Speaker 2: deal Breakers. You can find her at dr Bethany Marshall
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Speaker 2: dot com. Doctor Bethany, I would not refer to these
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Speaker 2: ladies as quote participants that needed more arrest in order
5:01
Speaker 2: to participate and their murder.
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Speaker 7: You know, Nancy, using a word like participant really minimizes
5:08
Speaker 7: the suffering of the victims. And we know about these
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Speaker 7: psychopaths and Rex Hiraman in particular, that the way he
5:15
Speaker 7: achieved sexual arousal is to inflict pain and cruelty. That
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Speaker 7: is his mo and he likes to demean That's what
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Speaker 7: psychopaths do. That's why he called up the families and
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Speaker 7: he kind of taunted them because that was a way
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Speaker 7: to achieve arousal as well. So there is no.
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Speaker 2: Way to wait, wait, wait, Bethany, before I get to
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Speaker 2: him calling some of the victims' family members and taunting
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Speaker 2: them by saying I raped her, I raped her I
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Speaker 2: killed her.
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Speaker 1: Okay, that's a whole other can of worms.
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Speaker 2: Can we get back to the four days of torture
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Speaker 2: that coincide with the times his wife and children would
5:56
Speaker 2: be away for extended periods of time. We needed a
6:00
Speaker 2: full on nearly a week to torture these ladies, suspending
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Speaker 2: them from the roof.
6:06
Speaker 1: You know what, Let's make it real. Let's make it real. Listen.
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Speaker 6: First off, with regard to Jessica Taylor, you know that
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Speaker 6: her body was recovered in July twenty sixth and two
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Speaker 6: thousand and three off of just west of Halsey Mountain
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Speaker 6: Road in Manorville.
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Speaker 5: She was found on her back.
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Speaker 6: She was decapitated, and her hands and arms were severed
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Speaker 6: just below the elbows. Notably a tattoo that she had
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Speaker 6: had been obliterated with a sharp object.
6:37
Speaker 1: Let's analyze what we just heard.
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Speaker 2: I'm going to bring in everybody, but first I want
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Speaker 2: to go to a special guest joining me, Niki Carbone,
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Speaker 2: who actually went on a date with Rix hereman we
6:50
Speaker 2: have met before.
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Speaker 1: Nikki, thank you for joining me. I appreciate it well.
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Speaker 2: You were hearing, for instance, what happened to Jessica Taylor
7:00
Speaker 2: and on her back decapitated her arms and hands over
7:05
Speaker 2: her head and tattoo had been cut off of her skin.
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Speaker 2: You know you were that close, miss lady, to the
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Speaker 2: same thing happening to you.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, can you tell us what happened on your date?
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Speaker 8: Looking back now, it's still kind of like crazy to
7:28
Speaker 8: me because I feel like.
7:29
Speaker 9: I got very lucky.
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Speaker 8: But so I met him at the steam Room in
7:35
Speaker 8: Port jeff In like twenty fifteen. He initially I knew
7:39
Speaker 8: he was from s Piqua and he was an architect,
7:42
Speaker 8: and he wanted me to go directly to his house.
7:44
Speaker 8: He didn't want to meet in public, but I did
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Speaker 8: not want to do that. I ended up actually before
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Speaker 8: going showing somebody his picture and letting her know where
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Speaker 8: I was going to meet him in case anything happened,
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Speaker 8: because I always did it just to be safe. And
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Speaker 8: when I got there, I first impression he is a
8:03
Speaker 8: freaking monster. He is huge, like six ' five I think,
8:08
Speaker 8: and like very kind of overbearing, like his grip, everything
8:13
Speaker 8: kind of seemed very overbearing.
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Speaker 9: We sat down, we started having dinner.
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Speaker 8: I don't know how, Like I'm pretty sure he brought
8:23
Speaker 8: it up, but I don't know how he like casually
8:24
Speaker 8: brought up serial killers, and we talked about a couple
8:27
Speaker 8: of them, but like the one that stood out the
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Speaker 8: most and bothers me now hearing what happened to the
8:33
Speaker 8: women was he talked about the serial killer that used
8:36
Speaker 8: to bring women to Alaska on a date and then
8:39
Speaker 8: hunt them. And he also talked about Jeffrey Dahmer. So
8:46
Speaker 8: like the few serial killers he brought up, very creepy.
8:49
Speaker 8: And then he asked, like, have you heard a Long
8:51
Speaker 8: Island serial killer, Gilgo Beach. I said, yeah, everyone who
8:55
Speaker 8: lives here knows about it. We started talking about the
8:59
Speaker 8: Gilg Beach murders. But the difference was when we talked
9:03
Speaker 8: about other serial killers, it was like very much third person,
9:07
Speaker 8: just like stuff you read out a book, factual stuff.
9:09
Speaker 8: When he talked about Gilgo, it was like completely different,
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Speaker 8: Like his body language change, the way he was talking
9:17
Speaker 8: about it wasn't somebody. It was almost like he was
9:19
Speaker 8: reliving it and like I hate to say it, but
9:23
Speaker 8: almost I don't know how you say it, but sexualizing it.
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Speaker 8: Like it seemed like he got off on talking about it,
9:31
Speaker 8: and like the impression I got from him was that
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Speaker 8: like he was somebody who like wants the media circus
9:38
Speaker 8: and the attention and to be like a known serial
9:41
Speaker 8: killer like he. I don't see any other reason why
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Speaker 8: you would talk to a potential victim about the murders beforehand.
9:50
Speaker 9: So it was very the whole thing he brought up.
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Speaker 8: I remember Shannon specifically, and that's why it bothers me
9:55
Speaker 8: so much. She's not connected because you said, do you
9:58
Speaker 8: think Shannon Gilbert is tied to the Gilgo Beach? And
10:02
Speaker 8: I said, I don't know, and he said, I think
10:04
Speaker 8: she is, absolutely, and then he talked about that a
10:07
Speaker 8: little bit.
10:09
Speaker 9: But she's it still says stay out tied to him.
10:13
Speaker 9: And that's one of the biggest things about the case
10:15
Speaker 9: that bothers me.
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Speaker 1: NICKI carbine with us. You know what, NICKI, after we
10:19
Speaker 1: finish our.
10:20
Speaker 2: Program, I'm going to hook you up with doctor Bethany Marshall.
10:24
Speaker 2: She's at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com and I'm going
10:27
Speaker 2: to hook you to up via cell phone. NICKI, when
10:32
Speaker 2: you were hearing that these ladies were kept alive and
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Speaker 2: like suspended from the ceiling and tied up and tortured.
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Speaker 9: I wasn't surprised at all.
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Speaker 1: Why do you say that.
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Speaker 8: That I wasn't surprised the way he talked about everything's
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Speaker 8: he came off to me as somebody that would enjoy that.
10:53
Speaker 8: And then hearing the autopsy report for like Shannon and
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Speaker 8: other people, it just it made a lot of sense,
11:01
Speaker 8: especially taunting the families, and it's scary. I think the
11:07
Speaker 8: only reason I remember, I was too scared to walk
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Speaker 8: to my car alone because I didn't know if you
11:11
Speaker 8: would like come to my car. And he was a
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Speaker 8: massive guy. So I ended up having somebody meet me
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Speaker 8: literally like at the door of the steam room. And
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Speaker 8: I feel like that's the only reason I got as
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Speaker 8: lucky as I did.
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Speaker 2: Now, Nikki, the steamer room was the restaurant, correct, Yeah,
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Speaker 2: And I like to point out to everyone that I've
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Speaker 2: spoken to Niki well over the course of the past year,
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Speaker 2: and her story has remained the same. In fact, the
11:37
Speaker 2: minute details have not changed. Let me understand this, Nikki,
11:41
Speaker 2: you got such an overwhelming feeling you were afraid to
11:45
Speaker 2: walk to your car after dinner with Rex Hereman.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, I didn't know if you would follow me, And
11:51
Speaker 8: like everyone knows, he's massive, so and at the time
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Speaker 8: I was like probably one hundred and twenty five pounds,
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Speaker 8: So yeah, I didn't even I'll see. He's the only
12:01
Speaker 8: time I ever in my entire life went on a
12:04
Speaker 8: date where I remembered reading about a magazine and how
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Speaker 8: he could go to the bar and order a drink
12:10
Speaker 8: and they'll escort you to an uber or lift or
12:13
Speaker 8: escort you out. And I remember thinking about that on
12:16
Speaker 8: the date, and I never I never had that thought
12:21
Speaker 8: come in my mind. Like he was terrifying because the
12:24
Speaker 8: way he spoke about it wasn't somebody.
12:26
Speaker 9: Who just was interested in serial killers.
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Speaker 2: NICKI, I remember you telling me something about he kept
12:35
Speaker 2: trying to get you to go with him, and you
12:37
Speaker 2: were putting him off, and he kept explaining how he
12:40
Speaker 2: could get you out there, but he wouldn't talk about
12:42
Speaker 2: how you could get back home.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, he didn't want me to take that was the
12:46
Speaker 9: biggest thing.
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Speaker 8: So at towards the end of the date, he asked
12:49
Speaker 8: if I was going to go back to his place
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Speaker 8: with him, and he had shown me a white envelope
12:53
Speaker 8: but that was sketchy to begin with.
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Speaker 9: But he asked me to go back to his face.
12:58
Speaker 9: But his biggest thing was.
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Speaker 8: He didn't want me to take my car or anything
13:01
Speaker 8: anyone in my phone off And I was like, how
13:04
Speaker 8: am I going to get back?
13:05
Speaker 9: And he's like, oh, we'll figure that out later, Like
13:07
Speaker 9: that wasn't like something he talked about.
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Speaker 8: And when I was like, oh no, like I'm not
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Speaker 8: leaving my car. I don't feel comfortable driving out there,
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Speaker 8: Like you could tell, he was like visibly annoyed and
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Speaker 8: like aggravated that he made the effort to come meet
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Speaker 8: me out there and I wasn't going back with it.
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Speaker 2: Now, where was the same room restaurant located?
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Speaker 1: Was it anywhere near Penn Station?
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Speaker 9: No? No, I live in Suffolk.
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Speaker 8: So he met me in Port jeff which is I
13:38
Speaker 8: want to say, like thirty minutes for Massapico maybe, But
13:42
Speaker 8: I had never gone to Massapico or been in the area,
13:44
Speaker 8: so I didn't feel comfortable going straight to his house
13:47
Speaker 8: to begin with. And then after the fact that I
13:49
Speaker 8: was like, I don't want to drive at night. I
13:51
Speaker 8: don't know the area. And that's when he was like, oh, no,
13:54
Speaker 8: we'd go in my car. Why would we take two cars,
13:56
Speaker 8: like insisting that it be one car.
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Speaker 2: What was his response when you would not go In
14:01
Speaker 2: the end, when he realized you were leaving and you
14:03
Speaker 2: were not going to go with him, he.
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Speaker 9: What else can you do. He's in a public place.
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Speaker 8: He's not going to make a scene. And so all
14:10
Speaker 8: he did was he gave me like a really firm hug,
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Speaker 8: like an awkwardly firm, like very aggressive kind of hug.
14:18
Speaker 9: And you could see on his face, you could see
14:20
Speaker 9: in his.
14:20
Speaker 8: Body language he was visibly like aggravated, like he looked
14:24
Speaker 8: angry that I wasn't going, And I didn't walk out
14:28
Speaker 8: the door until I knew my friend was waiting outside.
14:36
Speaker 3: Body after body after body is found on the beachy
14:40
Speaker 3: shores of Long Island, New York, but authorities think there
14:44
Speaker 3: could be more.
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Speaker 1: There are absolutely more.
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Speaker 2: Straight out to Susan Hendricks, jo joining US investigative reporter
14:52
Speaker 2: and author of a new book, Down the Hill, My
14:55
Speaker 2: descend into the double murder in Delphi.
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Speaker 1: Susan Hendricks, thank you for being with us.
15:01
Speaker 2: This document has emerged clearly indicates that the defendant, Rex Huerman,
15:07
Speaker 2: the alleged Long Island serial killer, would keep his victims
15:12
Speaker 2: alive for days on end in his ords, playing with
15:17
Speaker 2: them and my words, torturing them until he finally killed
15:22
Speaker 2: them just in time for his wife and children to
15:25
Speaker 2: fly back into town.
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Speaker 10: Yeah, Nancy, it's good to be on and seeing that
15:28
Speaker 10: list is so disturbing and it's great to hear from Niki.
15:32
Speaker 10: I also watched a prior interview you did with her
15:35
Speaker 10: about that gut instinct to think, wait a minute, his
15:38
Speaker 10: posture is different when he's speaking about the murder almost
15:41
Speaker 10: in first person, and the police commissioner, I believe, said
15:45
Speaker 10: it best saying Rex Huerman is a demon that walks
15:49
Speaker 10: among us, a predator that ruins families and some of
15:53
Speaker 10: the most disturbing and there's a lot to choose from.
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Speaker 10: As you know Nancy, on that list, one is hit harder,
16:00
Speaker 10: use heavy rope for neck, light rope, broke, under stress.
16:05
Speaker 10: So think about the family members going back thinking one
16:08
Speaker 10: of the victim's sisters said, I want to know what
16:10
Speaker 10: were her final moments, like was she in pain? And
16:13
Speaker 10: then seeing this list come out that the light rope brope,
16:17
Speaker 10: that they need heavier rope. As sick as you may
16:20
Speaker 10: have thought this case to be, it appears it's even
16:23
Speaker 10: more disturbing now looking at that list.
16:25
Speaker 2: In the last days, two new victims have been officially named,
16:31
Speaker 2: names we knew before, but now it's official. There is
16:36
Speaker 2: enough evidence, including DNA, mitochondrial evidence to connect Huerman to
16:42
Speaker 2: these victims straight out to doctor Bethany Marshall. You can
16:46
Speaker 2: find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany
16:51
Speaker 2: listening to the injuries on Santra Caristilla, specifically the I
16:57
Speaker 2: believe post mortem after death injuries to her face, torso, breasts.
17:02
Speaker 1: And vaginal area.
17:05
Speaker 2: It fits directly, which I'm going to get into later,
17:09
Speaker 2: snuff films and porn films that were discovered on this
17:16
Speaker 2: document belonging to human that he perfected and then tried
17:21
Speaker 2: to erase. I want to ask you, what does this
17:26
Speaker 2: type of mutilation on a lady's breasts and vagina and
17:30
Speaker 2: her face, What does that mean psychologically?
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Speaker 7: This is sexual sadism. Sexual Sadism is a disorder where
17:41
Speaker 7: the perpetrator cannot achieve sexual arousal or orgasm without inflicting
17:47
Speaker 7: pain and.
17:48
Speaker 1: Cruelty on another person.
17:50
Speaker 7: And typically they don't just like mob or tease. It's
17:54
Speaker 7: really a vaginal mutilation, breast mutilation, mutilating the person's face.
18:00
Speaker 7: I mean, he's a little tricky because he also didn't
18:01
Speaker 7: want her to be ideed, right, so he was trying
18:04
Speaker 7: to rip off her tattoos with a knife, But primarily
18:09
Speaker 7: he was trying to keep himself in a prolonged phase
18:14
Speaker 7: of sexual arousal for as many days as possible, and
18:19
Speaker 7: as long as that victim was alive, he could stay aroused.
18:23
Speaker 7: Now why sadism.
18:24
Speaker 2: So no matter how beaten, battered, bruised, cut up the
18:33
Speaker 2: victim was, he kept her alive to continue his word,
18:39
Speaker 2: not mine, playing with her and seeing a lady, Yes,
18:46
Speaker 2: beaten and cut up that way sexually aroused rex herement.
18:52
Speaker 7: Yes, because his brain is wired differently than ours. He
18:55
Speaker 7: cannot achieve sexual satisfaction, excitement, pleasure without inflicting cruelty. And
19:02
Speaker 7: there's some neurobiology to this and that these perpetrators they can't.
19:06
Speaker 7: They experience under arousal in every area of their life.
19:11
Speaker 7: Nothing excites them other than inflicting cruelty. And I know
19:14
Speaker 7: about like sex addicts in my practice, or if we
19:17
Speaker 7: think of sexual addiction, people with sexual addiction want to
19:21
Speaker 7: stay aroused continually, So they'll often watch pornography, but they'll
19:27
Speaker 7: avoid ejaculation because they want to stay in that aroused state.
19:30
Speaker 7: Now you take that to sadism, sexual sadom sism, the
19:34
Speaker 7: same thing is actually happening. But while mutilating while dangling
19:38
Speaker 7: the woman from the ceiling while looking at the pain
19:41
Speaker 7: in her eyes. This is why sexual sadus often the
19:45
Speaker 7: mode of homicide is strangling while looking in the woman's
19:49
Speaker 7: eyes because they want to see the fear. It's not
19:53
Speaker 7: exciting for him to kill her upfront, It's only exciting
19:57
Speaker 7: for him to toy with her. And the use of
20:00
Speaker 7: the word play it's very it's really minimizing the heinous
20:05
Speaker 7: nature of the crime. And I'm so sorry for all
20:08
Speaker 7: these families who have to hear these details. It's not
20:11
Speaker 7: only torture to the victim that was inflicted, but it's
20:14
Speaker 7: continual torture inflicted on the families and on society.
20:18
Speaker 2: In the last days, two more lady victims have been
20:21
Speaker 2: added to the list of the Gilgo Beach victims of
20:27
Speaker 2: the Long Island serial killer.
20:28
Speaker 1: Not only that, but the stunning.
20:31
Speaker 2: Realization that the Long Island serial killer kept his victims
20:35
Speaker 2: alive for days on and torturing them a variety of modes,
20:43
Speaker 2: including hanging them from the walls or ceiling in his
20:48
Speaker 2: basement dungeon.
20:50
Speaker 1: These attacks and these prolonged.
20:54
Speaker 2: Days of torture coincided with times his wife and children
21:00
Speaker 2: would leave to go out of the country, typically joining
21:05
Speaker 2: me in all Star panel that Brace yourself. Listen to this.
21:09
Speaker 6: Yerman had a significant collection of violent bondage and torture
21:13
Speaker 6: pornography which was dating back to nineteen ninety four, and
21:17
Speaker 6: that material was very similar to the condition that the
21:24
Speaker 6: two latest victims.
21:25
Speaker 5: Were left in.
21:26
Speaker 6: In addition to that, is alleged that the pornographic images
21:29
Speaker 6: that were access by Yeerman are consistent with the crime
21:35
Speaker 6: scenes of both Sandra Cassia and Jessica Taylor.
21:38
Speaker 2: You understand what he's saying, Bill Daily, Bill Daily joining me,
21:42
Speaker 2: former FBI investigator and expert in forensic photography security expert, Bill,
21:50
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us, and he is joining
21:53
Speaker 2: us from this jurisdiction of Long Island.
21:56
Speaker 1: Did you hear.
21:56
Speaker 2: That they can take the porn torture films that Hierman
22:04
Speaker 2: was into, the snuff films where somebody's actually killed or
22:09
Speaker 2: replicates killing them, and they can overlay what was done
22:14
Speaker 2: and that porn, that torture porn onto these victims and
22:19
Speaker 2: it matches, which is another extrensive piece of evidence proving
22:25
Speaker 2: guilt on top of the DNA.
22:27
Speaker 11: Yeah, exactly, as we hear all this evidence mounting against
22:31
Speaker 11: the accused suspects here, it is a bit overwhelming, and
22:35
Speaker 11: I'd probably say from an evidentiary perspective, at the gathering
22:39
Speaker 11: of this evidence from a variety of scenes, crime scenes, conditions,
22:43
Speaker 11: some more recent like the last two victims who have
22:46
Speaker 11: found more recent to their deaths and were the ones
22:49
Speaker 11: prior which only skeletal remains, is a daunting task and
22:53
Speaker 11: I give tremendous credit to the both the forensics experts
22:56
Speaker 11: and the other people involved in this case. Also, something
22:59
Speaker 11: else to keep in mind, Nancy, is that we're talking
23:01
Speaker 11: about Gilgo Beach and being familiar with the area, is
23:05
Speaker 11: that those bodies that were first discovered and why they
23:08
Speaker 11: kind of led to this suspect along that beach front,
23:11
Speaker 11: which is part of where Jones Beaches and Captree Beach,
23:16
Speaker 11: et cetera. It's a Barry Island, a very remote area,
23:19
Speaker 11: particularly in off hours and certainly different times of the season.
23:23
Speaker 11: The other two victims we just mentioned, more recent victims,
23:26
Speaker 11: were actually found a distance away. They were found one
23:29
Speaker 11: out in Southampton, one in I believe Holebroke or perhaps Manorville.
23:35
Speaker 11: Those those areas are some you know, thirty or forty
23:38
Speaker 11: miles away, So it's quite it's quite intriguing the fact
23:42
Speaker 11: that he kind of changed his modality. He changed from
23:47
Speaker 11: going to that beach location for whatever reason, perhaps thinking
23:50
Speaker 11: it was too hot, and then decided to kind of
23:53
Speaker 11: drop the remains in other remote kind of park like areas.
23:57
Speaker 11: But unfortunately they weren't. Fortunately for the investigators, they were
24:02
Speaker 11: not that re both that they were found fairly recent
24:05
Speaker 11: after their deaths at the last two victims, and that helped,
24:08
Speaker 11: I think bring together some of this forensic information, which
24:11
Speaker 11: is very very compelling.
24:13
Speaker 2: Bill Daily, When you stay that Gilgo Beach was too hot,
24:16
Speaker 2: I'm sure you don't mean the weather, do you.
24:18
Speaker 1: No, I don't mean that.
24:19
Speaker 11: I mean it can be it's in the summer, But
24:21
Speaker 11: that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the
24:24
Speaker 11: fact that he may have felt as though he was
24:26
Speaker 11: using it too often. He needed to the suspect needed
24:30
Speaker 11: to kind of change his modality and then look for
24:33
Speaker 11: other places. And that's why there could be other remains.
24:36
Speaker 11: There may be other victims out there who might be
24:40
Speaker 11: somewhat connected. We don't know yet, and I believe that
24:44
Speaker 11: they may be over a period of time found.
24:47
Speaker 2: Oh, there are going to be more victims with me,
24:50
Speaker 2: renowned forensics expert, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
24:55
Speaker 2: Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon's Star I Mean You
24:59
Speaker 2: hit series podcast Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott Morgan,
25:03
Speaker 2: I've been screaming into the wind for years that the
25:07
Speaker 2: butcher of Manerville and the Long Island serial killer are
25:11
Speaker 2: in fact one of the same, and I believe that
25:14
Speaker 2: this one hair proves it because, as Bill Day correctly stated,
25:19
Speaker 2: some of these bodies were found elsewhere. And regarding the
25:23
Speaker 2: change of modality as he referred to it, I mean
25:27
Speaker 2: many people say, oh, that couldn't be him because it's
25:29
Speaker 2: a different modus operandi method of operation BS. Just look
25:34
Speaker 2: at for instance, Ted Bundy. He started off pretending being
25:38
Speaker 2: still a law student, flagging women down in his VW.
25:42
Speaker 2: Then he pretend that he had a cast on his arm.
25:45
Speaker 2: Then he would lure them and kill them. Then he
25:48
Speaker 2: finally in the end was reduced to clubbing people with
25:52
Speaker 2: a log inside a structure. His modality, his MO changed,
25:58
Speaker 2: so that is not at all unusual. That's just very
26:02
Speaker 2: uneducated to say it can't be him because the MO
26:05
Speaker 2: changed but Joscott, I need your forensic expertise.
26:09
Speaker 1: I listen to this.
26:11
Speaker 12: In rex Huerman's digital devices, investigators uncovered disturbing images of
26:15
Speaker 12: abuse and torture pornography. They also find Human's word document,
26:19
Speaker 12: where he creates lists of supplies needed for torture dump
26:23
Speaker 12: sites and targets. He also has notes on how to
26:26
Speaker 12: prepare for an abduction. The document details the identical methodology
26:30
Speaker 12: used on his alleged victims. Da Ray Tierney points out
26:33
Speaker 12: the Gilgo four victims were all skeletonized when found, but
26:36
Speaker 12: the last two victims were not. Tierney says the remains
26:40
Speaker 12: of Jessica Taylor and Sandra Castilla showed evidence of torture.
26:43
Speaker 12: Castilla's body showed evidence of mutilation, and Taylor was dismembered.
26:47
Speaker 2: He's going to let that sink in for a moment,
26:49
Speaker 2: Joe Scott. So now we can do an overlay. We
26:55
Speaker 2: can compare the snuff film Murder. You I guess are
27:00
Speaker 2: raping a lady, then you kill her or bottom nd
27:04
Speaker 2: you kill her, you kill the victim, regardless of what.
27:07
Speaker 1: Leads up to the death in the movie.
27:10
Speaker 2: There were other torture porn movies videos that Human watched
27:16
Speaker 2: and the mo what was done to those victims is
27:21
Speaker 2: the same exact thing that was done to these victims
27:25
Speaker 2: the real life of victims. How do you determine that
27:29
Speaker 2: when a body has decomposed.
27:32
Speaker 13: Very difficult. One of the things that you're looking for,
27:36
Speaker 13: And you know, you can go ahead.
27:37
Speaker 12: And.
27:39
Speaker 13: You can go ahead and probably exclude any of the
27:42
Speaker 13: remains that are skeletonized unless there were broken bones, and
27:46
Speaker 13: that might give you an indication there if there was
27:48
Speaker 13: any healing going on. But in the short term, when
27:51
Speaker 13: we talk about you know, they're saying specifically that there's
27:53
Speaker 13: evidence of torture. That's different than post mortal mutilation, Nancy.
27:58
Speaker 13: So if they have evidence of torture, and I'm talking
28:01
Speaker 13: about evidence on the bodies, all right, that means that
28:05
Speaker 13: there has been a trauma response to any of the injuries.
28:08
Speaker 13: And what that means that we get a bruise, we
28:10
Speaker 13: get a cut, we get some kind of laceration to
28:13
Speaker 13: our body, almost instantaneously, there will be a response at
28:17
Speaker 13: a cellular level in our body, and we can pick
28:19
Speaker 13: up on that at autopsy, Nancy, just by taking those samples,
28:23
Speaker 13: even to a certain degree with decomposed bodies, that's depended
28:27
Speaker 13: upon how far down the road they are at this point,
28:30
Speaker 13: there is hope, I think. And the ones that are
28:32
Speaker 13: more recent, where when I say recent, I mean recent
28:36
Speaker 13: in the sense that they were fresher perhaps than the
28:40
Speaker 13: than the bodies that have been out for a protracted
28:42
Speaker 13: period of time, and you're going to see evidences of things.
28:45
Speaker 13: I find it very interesting. You know, there's a couple
28:47
Speaker 13: of references that are made in here about trying to
28:51
Speaker 13: disguise this idea of restraint. You know, we have this
28:54
Speaker 13: hard point that they talked about in the house. In
28:56
Speaker 13: the house where allegedly sheet these individual are being suspended, Well,
29:01
Speaker 13: if they're being suspended, they're probably being suspended by their
29:04
Speaker 13: wrist hanging from the ceiling. You're gonna get braided areas
29:07
Speaker 13: around the wrist. You can get subsequent broken small broken
29:11
Speaker 13: bones or fractures in those areas. And if he is
29:14
Speaker 13: striking them, say for instance, with a club or something
29:17
Speaker 13: like this, or even punching them, there might be evidence
29:20
Speaker 13: that they have broken bones underlying that tissue, and there's
29:23
Speaker 13: even a trauma response in the bones at that point
29:25
Speaker 13: in time. It's just how soon did they get to
29:28
Speaker 13: these bodies that they'll have evidence of this nancy.
29:37
Speaker 3: The quiet village of Manerville in Long Island is rocked
29:41
Speaker 3: by a series of shocking discoveries up and down their shoreline.
29:46
Speaker 3: Six bodies dumped. Police believe one man is responsible, and
29:52
Speaker 3: there could be more victims.
29:55
Speaker 1: It's not just that.
29:55
Speaker 2: Police believe it, DNA proves it. Of course, everyone is
30:00
Speaker 2: presumed innocent until proven guilty in our jurisprudence. But it's
30:05
Speaker 2: going to be hard, very difficult to fight with DNA,
30:09
Speaker 2: not just on one victim, but on several of them.
30:12
Speaker 2: But query, what does this string of murder victims, along
30:19
Speaker 2: with days on end where they are kept in captivity
30:24
Speaker 2: in order to torture them, what does that have to
30:27
Speaker 2: do with a book?
30:30
Speaker 6: Listen, and so we know there are specific page references
30:35
Speaker 6: to to that that that book, uh and and stuff
30:40
Speaker 6: such as a sexual substitution, uh, torture and also Stockholm
30:46
Speaker 6: syndrome and uh. You know our argument, it's our allegation
30:51
Speaker 6: that the defendant was referencing that mind Hunt Hunter book
30:55
Speaker 6: not to gain insight into his own behavior, to modify
30:59
Speaker 6: or change it, but rather to use it as a
31:02
Speaker 6: means of improving his methodology and avoid capture by the authorities.
31:08
Speaker 2: To investigative reporter and journalists and Hendrix, how does the
31:13
Speaker 2: mind Hunter the book play into this mass murder, this
31:19
Speaker 2: serial killer.
31:20
Speaker 10: It is very sick and apparently he used references in
31:24
Speaker 10: that book meaning the painter and the artist, the painter
31:28
Speaker 10: being the victim. And it's clear how much he was
31:32
Speaker 10: obsessed with his own doing what he did following the
31:37
Speaker 10: brutal murders and even calling as you mentioned Nancy, the victims'
31:42
Speaker 10: family members. I mean, Melissa's sister, Amanda is fifteen years
31:46
Speaker 10: old at the time. If you're not clear about this
31:48
Speaker 10: detail calling her, she sees her sister's phone, thinks it's
31:51
Speaker 10: her sister, says Melissa, No, it's him, allegedly saying what
31:56
Speaker 10: he did to her sister. Nothing seemed like it was enough,
32:00
Speaker 10: not the torture referencing the book, those long lists, and
32:04
Speaker 10: there were some parallels in my opinion, to Delphi in
32:07
Speaker 10: terms of could a tip that was early on have
32:10
Speaker 10: led to his arrest. We'll never know, but one of
32:13
Speaker 10: the victim's roommates, Dave Amber Lynn. Costillo's roommate, Dave called
32:18
Speaker 10: it in and said, listen, this guy creeped me out.
32:21
Speaker 10: This is the make and model of his car, and
32:24
Speaker 10: I recently saw him doing an interview saying, look, this
32:26
Speaker 10: was more than a decade later, that maybe they could
32:29
Speaker 10: have caught him when they did.
32:31
Speaker 2: Oh yes, you're Sarah Ryde, saysan Hendrix, a green Chevy
32:34
Speaker 2: Avalanche which is no longer in manufacture, and it was
32:38
Speaker 2: parked outside of his house. Back to the book The
32:44
Speaker 2: Mind Hunter, did Rex Hierman the alleged Long Island serial
32:48
Speaker 2: killer copycat what's in Douglas's book?
32:53
Speaker 6: Listen, you want to know who the painter is, look
32:56
Speaker 6: at the painting.
32:57
Speaker 5: And that is something that Douglas used to tell.
33:00
Speaker 6: His investigators, and that pertains specifically to if you want
33:05
Speaker 6: to know who committed the crime, look at the crime
33:10
Speaker 6: scene and the condition of the victim.
33:11
Speaker 5: And again, if you do that in this case, we
33:14
Speaker 5: would allege that.
33:16
Speaker 6: The crime scene and the victims match very much with
33:21
Speaker 6: a lot of the first off, the document that we found,
33:24
Speaker 6: and also a lot of the defendant's Internet activities and
33:27
Speaker 6: the bondage and torture type of pornography that he was
33:32
Speaker 6: interested and obsessively searching.
33:34
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, I need you to shrink that so
33:37
Speaker 2: Huerman is getting ideas from The Mind Hunter, the book.
33:42
Speaker 7: Nancy, his whole life is organized around this perversion. And
33:46
Speaker 7: let's remember there are five perversions exhibitionism, voyeurism, fraudiism which
33:52
Speaker 7: is rubbing up against an unsuspecting person in public, sadism,
33:56
Speaker 7: and pedophilia, and all of these perversions have something in
34:00
Speaker 7: common that is that they are associated with compulsion. Compulsion
34:05
Speaker 7: meaning the person is constantly thinking about the perversion constantly.
34:10
Speaker 7: This is a little bit like maybe an alcoholic learning
34:13
Speaker 7: how to make specialty cocktails, or maybe a pedophile becoming
34:17
Speaker 7: a priest or learning how to be a school teacher,
34:20
Speaker 7: where everything in that person's life is just organized around
34:25
Speaker 7: this compulsion that they have. Nancy, certain people we don't
34:28
Speaker 7: even put in psychology groups together because they pick up tips.
34:31
Speaker 7: You will put people who have eating disorders in a
34:34
Speaker 7: self help group together because they teach each other how
34:37
Speaker 7: to diet. So in this case, you know, having someone
34:40
Speaker 7: like rex Hureman have this kind of material available to him.
34:44
Speaker 9: Is extremely dangerous.
34:46
Speaker 7: And the reason these serial killers they pop up, they kill,
34:49
Speaker 7: they go underground for a while, they pop up is
34:52
Speaker 7: that they're so busy studying and that they're so busy
34:55
Speaker 7: with their pornography that actually that kind of substitute for
34:59
Speaker 7: the crime itself. In other words, that's sexually satisfying too.
35:04
Speaker 6: Now, as part of our processing of the electronic devices,
35:08
Speaker 6: the task force discovered a Microsoft word document entitled HK
35:13
Speaker 6: two thousand and two through two thousand and four that
35:16
Speaker 6: was discovered on a laptop in unallocated space, meaning there
35:21
Speaker 6: was an attempt to erase that doment a locally created draft,
35:26
Speaker 6: which means the document itself was created on the laptop.
35:30
Speaker 6: It wasn't downloaded from the Internet. The document was modified.
35:36
Speaker 6: It was originally created in two thousand and was overwritten
35:40
Speaker 6: a number of times and modified between two thousand and
35:44
Speaker 6: one and two thousand and two.
35:45
Speaker 2: Translation Rex Huerman, the alleged Long Island serial killer, created
35:50
Speaker 2: a how to, a detailed document regarding the prep the
35:55
Speaker 2: hunting of his victims, what he did to them, and
35:59
Speaker 2: how to get rid of them, their bodies and the evidence.
36:03
Speaker 1: He created that, and he tried to erase it.
36:08
Speaker 2: Not only did he try to erase it it was
36:10
Speaker 2: discovered by cyber experts, but he over wrote it, modifying
36:18
Speaker 2: it many many times, perfecting it just got Morgan is,
36:25
Speaker 2: a forensics expert and death investigator. What does this tell you, Hey,
36:30
Speaker 2: just got Morgan. I've got sadly, over twenty one thousand
36:35
Speaker 2: emails on my iPhone. I haven't erased them because one
36:40
Speaker 2: of these days I want to read them.
36:43
Speaker 1: I don't care who sees them.
36:45
Speaker 2: I don't care if my children or my husband go
36:47
Speaker 2: around with my clphone, don't care. But he tried to
36:51
Speaker 2: erase this document evidence of guilt in my mind. But
36:55
Speaker 2: number two, can you just see him when he was
36:59
Speaker 2: not in the middle of torturing a lady and killing
37:02
Speaker 2: her or suspending her from the ceiling or mutilating her
37:05
Speaker 2: on his off time? How many times do you think
37:08
Speaker 2: you would go in and perfect that document? How can
37:13
Speaker 2: I do this better, more easily? How can I get
37:17
Speaker 2: away with this? How can I better hunt my victims?
37:22
Speaker 2: And the joy and the excitement, the sex, excitement he
37:27
Speaker 2: would derive from perfecting the kill document?
37:32
Speaker 13: You know, it makes me think about you know some
37:34
Speaker 13: of the master artists over the years, where they do
37:37
Speaker 13: over paints, they see something that they just can't quite
37:40
Speaker 13: get right. It's stuck in their brain and suddenly, you know,
37:44
Speaker 13: some art historian will uncover something beneath that as horrible
37:48
Speaker 13: as this is he's learning as he goes along. And
37:52
Speaker 13: you know, every time I see this guy and he's
37:54
Speaker 13: not convicted, I know that, but I'm thinking, every time
37:57
Speaker 13: he hears the stuff in court and continues that drumbeat
38:01
Speaker 13: just continues. Is he reliving this in his mind all
38:05
Speaker 13: the time, because you know they talk about this, that
38:08
Speaker 13: they go back and fantasize about these sorts of things.
38:10
Speaker 13: How could I do it better? How could I remove
38:13
Speaker 13: you know, any evidence that I was involved in the situation.
38:18
Speaker 13: And it's not about getting caught with him. It's about
38:20
Speaker 13: trying trying to outsmart everybody.
38:24
Speaker 2: You know, Nicki Carbone is with me who actually went
38:27
Speaker 2: on a date with rex Hureman Niki. In the document
38:33
Speaker 2: that the cyber experts recovered, it it's a planning document.
38:38
Speaker 2: Remove marks from torture, remove id marks like tattoos, remove
38:44
Speaker 2: trace DNA, remove head and hands from victims. Package for transport.
38:52
Speaker 2: That's the body parts. The bodies package for transport will
38:57
Speaker 2: need dropcloth, why towels, copsing toys, wood items. That's what
39:07
Speaker 2: happened to these victims. That's what was done to them.
39:12
Speaker 2: That was your future if you had not gotten that
39:16
Speaker 2: instinct to get out of that restaurant.
39:20
Speaker 8: And what's crazy is the documents, like reading them almost
39:24
Speaker 8: like verbatim, mashed the way he talks about it, like
39:27
Speaker 8: the hunt.
39:28
Speaker 9: And not being seen in the area too.
39:30
Speaker 8: Long like again specific to Jen and was he said
39:35
Speaker 8: he hypothesized that it was getting too late, the sun
39:39
Speaker 8: was coming up. He didn't want to be seen with
39:41
Speaker 8: the body.
39:42
Speaker 2: So he was describing that to you what he thought
39:47
Speaker 2: the killer did.
39:48
Speaker 8: Well, yeah, because he described how he thought they got
39:50
Speaker 8: rid of the body.
39:51
Speaker 1: What did he say.
39:52
Speaker 8: His hypothesis of the one was that somebody very tall
39:57
Speaker 8: could wear fishing gear, hunting gear, rubber and tread through
40:01
Speaker 8: the marsh with the camouflaged bags and you wouldn't be seen, which.
40:05
Speaker 2: Is exactly how some of the victims were hidden on
40:09
Speaker 2: Gilgo Beach, walking through all that scrub and swampy area.
40:14
Speaker 2: And speaking of wearing those clothes, we now have seen
40:17
Speaker 2: new photos of Rex Huerman at a hunting club shooting
40:22
Speaker 2: a gun which was about a mile from one of
40:24
Speaker 2: his victims. And as we sign off, I've also learned
40:29
Speaker 2: in the last days that there are Rex Hereman t
40:32
Speaker 2: shirts being made by a pizza.
40:35
Speaker 1: Parlor and they are for sale.
40:40
Speaker 2: I wonder how the victims' families feel about that. Thank
40:45
Speaker 2: you to all of our guests, especially to Nikki Carbone.
40:52
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,