Latest / The Future Travel Experience (FTE) Podcast / To Surprise & Delight: Virgin Atlantic's Juha Jaervinen on the Future of the Most Loved Customer Experience

Transcript

To Surprise & Delight: Virgin Atlantic's Juha Jaervinen on the Future of the Most Loved Customer Experience · The Future Travel Experience (FTE) Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Ever felt like the world is moving too fast, that there's simply not enough time between clearing your inbox and joining the next team's call to give deep and meaningful thought to the technologies that are about to transform your aviation operation?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, help is at hand with this new Future Travel Experience podcast.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Proud to be part of the Apex family.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Max Gosny.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the new MD at FTE, and this pod is designed as a community support group for all you busy aviation professionals feeling bamboozled by the searing pace of change.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in for a collaborative and friendly forum where we'll guide you on the innovations that are too important to ignore.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Each episode, I'll be interviewing aviation chiefs who've blazed a trail with new technology.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get behind the hype to explore the very human challenges standing in the way of successful implementation.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: What leadership traits are essential to drive change?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is AI overrated?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And how do we win that all-important employee buy-in for change?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: You can listen on your way to work while traveling to an Apex FTE event, or even while walking your dog.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever your preference, you'll uncover a wealth of collaboration, best practice, and creative thinking.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the episode where we'll aim to surprise and delight you in honor of our exclusive guest, Juha Yavenan.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Juha is Chief Customer Officer and Executive Vice President at Virgin Atlantic.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's responsible for delivering outstanding customer care across the airline's fleet.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: On today's episode, Juha will talk to us about an ethos where if a crew member makes a mistake, the very last thing they encourage to do is to hide or to refer back to the customer services department back home.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, crew are encouraged to be proactive, be honest, to own the mistake and to get to know their customer and make amends.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Juha reveals how that's the secret of developing lifelong customer loyalty.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Juha has just been announced as our exclusive keynote speaker at FTE's EMEA ancillary and retailing events taking place in Dublin.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: So if you like today's conversation, you enjoy the philosophy that Juha talks about, then you'll learn an awful lot more by joining us there in Dublin in just under two weeks' time.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Juha will launch the event with a keynote furthering on today's conversation of delivering outstanding customer care at 9.10 on the 10th of June.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Hurry, get yourself registered, ladies and gents, and I look forward to seeing you there.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, here's Juha and enjoy the show.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Good afternoon and welcome to the podcast Juha.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, nice to be here, Max.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic to have you.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Juha, um, part of the press from Future Travel Experience this morning, we've uh with great delight announced that you will be a keynote at our EMEA conference and Celerian Retailing in Dublin.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Really looking forward to your session.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the title of which is The Future of the Most Loved Customer Experience.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell our listeners a bit more about that title, what you'll cover, and what we'll learn?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and of course, we've been proud to be the best airline in Europe at these awards for a number of years now.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what has been exciting is uh really how do we bring together the face-to-face customer experience with the physical product.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my goal for the Dublin session is to really try to translate the key learnings and the key successes that we've had to date into the future, and of course, future leaning what the opportunities are, both in terms of combining technology, combining that unique virgin flair that we have when customers fly with us, and how could how will that mix evolve over time when we go into the future?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that is uh still work in progress, but I'm I'm promising a good session.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're still two weeks.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: We all know speakers like yourself.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Two weeks is plenty of time, so uh we can build it up from here.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: But we are looking forward to it.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And interestingly, I noted that within the synopsis, you we talk about um that Virgin Service Virgin Atlantic service delivered by people, enabled by technology.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: In that order, I mean, because we are um you know, as a brand as well, FTE is perhaps um prone to this.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: We are all looking at our AI and we're obsessing about AI, but delivered by people was interesting comment there.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I think the key question is that what will be the future mix of technology enablement versus the human human touch and the human um face-to-face encounter?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we believe that the technology obviously should make the customer interaction much more seamless, much more um hassle-free, which will then actually give us more time, the more face-to-face time, or over voice, or whichever means customer wants to um communicate with us or interact with us, that we have more actually time and better quality time to bring that virgin flare and the virgin experience to the customer.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So technology is there to enable that.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um of course, uh, in certain instances, potentially eliminate the interaction because customers can solve and get the answers without talking to your human.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: But we I firmly believe that there is that human plus dimension where where technology and AI agent, together with a human, can really bring uh something unique together.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we used our humans, our virgin uh amazing staff members to really elevate that and bring something unique.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, we all end up using the similar technology over time, and we end up quite often use utilizing similar technology on board as well, if we think from an onboard onboard uh space.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do we differentiate?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: How do we stand out?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I don't believe on a steady state the seat necessarily will be the one because everybody will be catching up with their seats uh or or some of the other elements.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: It is really the human interaction that can really stand out, and and that's something that has always been in our DNA for 42 years to date.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we aim to definitely do that and spice it up even more going forward.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, the the technology, like you say, enables us, empowers the staff a little bit more time to execute those human touches, the warmth.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: A few examples, uh you are of where what you know innovative new features that might enable?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one is uh what we already launched uh is the AI Con Shares, which we now have fully integrated into our new app, the app that we launched in back in March.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and actually, we were also the first airline to launch our new app in Chat GPT.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's now integrated within the platform, and we were the first airline to do that.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and now when we obviously evolved with with the technology, that will we hopefully will bring that on board soon as well.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: We are in the process of now um installing Starlink on all our aircraft.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: We have we have progressed very well now with the Episode 350s, um, and we will have all aircraft done by probably by mid next year.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that will be a uh definitely a game changer for our customers because we will be probably the first airline really to in, especially on North Atlantic, to have all aircraft um installing.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that gives that consistency to customers, and also it enables our staff members to have much more insight on a customer as well, and we are able to be online throughout the journey.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and regardless of what happens, if it's disruption or in the journey or special birthday that we happen to know that you might have, um, it is really how do we elevate that experience and give that bit of extra that that technology enables us to do in a seamless way.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it might be that's a good perhaps a good example you touched on there, but where you're it's a passenger's birthday, you know, having the technology flag that empower these staff, and you're able to then go and add that kind of personal touch, happy birthday to you, do your cake, that those sort of little flourishes that I guess that you wouldn't get anywhere else.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean it's it's surprising.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we meet a few times a year with our top-tier customers and we ask why do they fly with us?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and it's surprisingly many.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: These are you know entrepreneurs, you know, high high-flying uh executives, and when you ask them what is the reason, and it's actually quite often these are the reasons they list us why they fly with us, because they feel that we actually care, we truly care, um, which is great to see because and great to hear because that that is really something that you know we can stand out.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um we're not one of those airlines that sort of standardize a five-star luxury experience.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: We are there as human beings, uh, as individuals, and we um encourage our crew members, for example, to be themselves and be their own personality.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: We are not sticking to a hard-coded uh procedural statement that they need to make on board, which many airlines decide to do.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um we want to be different, and we've always been different.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's any other insights either either customer um has given us before, or or for example, club our clubhouse at the airport has spoken to the customer, there's something that they want to share to the capping crew members so that we can sort of surprise and delight again on board, is that seamlessness of communication between various team members as well that can really stand make it stand out and especially makes it feel authentic.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, definitely a memorable as it comes comes about to you in um in your customer feedback.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And talking about customer feedback, can you tell us a little bit more uh about the importance of net promoter scores, MPS, uh in assessing customer satisfaction at Virgin Atlantic?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then perhaps if you go on in your answers, then talk about how you use that data to drive revenue maximization.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so we are, I would almost say that we're obsessed about MPS.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: We are um tracking it obviously on every single flight, every single day.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Just two novice, someone landed from Planet's organ and never heard of MPS.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um you give us some context here, please, as well.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we uh obviously ask people to um answer our surveys or always after flight, um, and we track various elements, various touch points in the journey, everything from you know booking, booking, check-in, uh, boarding, lounge, in and various in-flight elements.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then people um rank us and give us scoring, uh, which we then obviously compile, um, compare against various aircraft types, we compare against different customer profiles or reasons to travel, um, obviously measured in every single route, and we start build building patterns on where do we have either exceeded expectations or we are also in some cases then not delivering as per customer expectations.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we use that internally very much as a as a scoring mechanism of how how well we're doing and where where do we need to focus on.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's surprisingly uh big variations between different types of routes as well, that um some customers are much more, some routes customers are much more critical than others.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that is really where where we need to be then able to try to adjust as much as we can.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and the great advantage of us being a boutique-sized airline is that we have the capability to to also modify and adjust our service concepts on route level.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, we will have very different meal concepts on India versus South Korea or any other routes, and how do we then adjust the timing of the meal concepts depending on how the local eating habits are, depending on on the time of the day?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's just really and we're very quick to then adjust if we see that the reaction is not as good as we hoped for.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So then we aim to tackle it straight away, especially with the new routes.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: If if we enter a market like South Korea, which we entered now in in late March, is again a new market for us where we need to local uh adjust our our local offer and make sure that we are as relevant as we can, both for for South Korean and for British audiences.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's exciting, that's what motivates our team as well, and our our capping crew are always extremely uh involved as well, giving us feedback and how do we improve.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's really I would say the secret source uh for Atlantic that we are we are very hands-on and and even our frontline staff, they've sort of they're part of the family, they feel like they are entrepreneurs as well, you know, that it's their business too.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So they are very quick to then um give us insight on what works and what doesn't work equally well.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds really interesting.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So if I've if I've interpreted correctly, you will get a specific trend on a particular route and feedback to whether it's the in-flight entertainment or the the food that allows you to pinpoint and make improvements specifically for that that route that you're serving.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um respond very personably to the customer.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then obviously we aim to be um um as quick as we can as well on um doing corrective actions.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we we do see that if there is something might happen on an outbound flight that we try to sort of recover as much as we can on the return.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we use we use this insight very actively to to try to mitigate if there's any service gaps or anything that we've we've experienced.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: But we love to surprise and delight.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's really I would say the and it's quite often small things.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: It could be a handwritten note to a customer or just acknowledging what happened on the way out, if we can correct it somehow on the way back.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's something that we're really aiming, targeting to do as our level standard, standard that we offer, especially in the premium cabins, but equally in the economy, it could be the how do we take care of a family who's been on the Florida holiday, or anything like that.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really about adjusting, adjusting yourself and your concept and your offer to the customer in question.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's the beauty of um an airline like Virgin Atlantic, which is uh smaller in size, boutique size, that gives us that leverage and opportunity to customize more.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: What's the most surprising thing you've uncovered in the MPS feedback?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Where you really sat back and thought, God, I didn't expect to find that out.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes actually, if if the if a service recovery is done very well, customers rank us very high that they they acknowledge that you know delays or cancellations and things can happen in the industry where we operate, but they value highly the way that we then course correct.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um especially if it's immediate correction or immediate action that surprises people.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And quite often people actually might, in some cases, rank you higher after a service failure because when they when they see that the company has taken it seriously.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the honesty in the event of a failure, yeah, again, it's just like yeah, surprise and delight in a way that yes, something happened, but we corrected it and we apologized, and we made it you we made you feel special.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And can you talk to us about how you ally that MPS and the feedback to revenue generation around things like duty-free sales, um yeah, and ancillary items, please?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so of course, certain items that we uh we either offer in as part of the ticket price and some are ancillaries.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm firmly believer of um ancillaries are there to improve your journey and it gives you options to choose.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have still a long way to go on on the ancillary side.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: We um haven't really commercialized some of the elements like in-flight space enough, and that's something that I'm I'm challenging my my new team on that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: How do we make sure that we add services or products um to customers that people are happy to pay for extra?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because um again, we only up we only operate on long-haul sectors, so customers are with us at least six to seven hours.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's a quite, if you think about in what other business you sort of are locked in into your world for six, seven hours or twelve twelve to fourteen hours, it's a unique opportunity to take care of the customer and really make them feel special.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And in some cases, you're happy to pay extra um doing that experience to get something better than what you might have got for free or as part of the ticket price.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really about how do we integrate more products and more services to your experience, which will of course increase the revenue for us and the share of wallets from an airline perspective, but it it's value adding for the customer itself.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you register today to join us at Apex Future Travel Experience EMEA 2026 on the 9th to the 11th of June in Dublin.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is the event is a definitive gathering for airlines, airports, and technology leaders who want to drive digital transformation, customer experience, and operational innovation at scale.
• 17:37
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• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sign up, go to future travelexperience.com, or you can email me, max at future travelexperience.com for more information.
• 18:00
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• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: See you there.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get behind um some of the metrics of a scoring mechanism like MPS to find the reasons why a customer has given that answer?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because from memory, and I've I've used the system before you get detractors, advocates, it gives you a huge level of um insight and scope as to what people think, but the why sometimes is harder to uncover.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: How do you dig deeper?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely the uh, like I said earlier, the uh the in case of service failures where we see that they've obviously been detractors, but if we can tackle it and we can actually potentially even do a course correction on the way back.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we have one we have won over some customers for life by by actually surprising and showing that we care and and showing that we take an immediate action.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it can be sometimes a detractor, can be uh a future success factor if we manage them um in a right way.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, it's not always easy, it's not always walk in the park, and um we don't always succeed, but uh that is our ambition to be the best, best in Europe, which we've been obviously awarded for a few times now in a row, and and we are targeting to maintain that role um as being the best airline overall airline in Europe because we are we are different, we are unique um in a virgin way, uh, and people love to fly with us, even in even from markets where we are not known as a brand necessarily.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's always that sort of uh excitement when people enter virgin aircraft.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and and a lot of that, as you credit, is down to the team.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned that they they're very they feel they are entrepreneurs, they feel a part of the brand.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: How do you kind of recruit and develop that mindset as a business?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say that definitely we invest more than probably many other companies in the in the actual recruiting process.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we have for cabbing crew or for airpod staff, but especially cabin crew, we we have a number of steps that you need to go through, a lot of also group interviews, various assessments with our um colleagues.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and besides the sort of technical skills of a job, it's it's more and more focused on the personality.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: That how do we make sure that the persons um with diverse backgrounds and diverse um uh profiles, which are the sort of the true ambassadors of Virgin Atlantic.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we spend a lot of time on that to make sure that we have a right fit.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then the second thing is just to make sure that we help them then in the journey when they actually join us, um, and making sure that we make them feel special as well, and and uh we empower them to be themselves and being able to uh you know make decisions on board, especially um so that we don't always sort of leave the course correction or the service recovery to the customer relations team afterwards, that we try to empower our people as much as we can to take action and take date the ownership straight away.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um you as a senior leadership team to sort of say if you if you have something happens, you know you've you've got an idea of how to resolve it and sort of take that one by the reins and look to resolve it on board.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so the crew the crew teams are empowered to do that, and then obviously if there's something that that they feel that they were unable to do, it um so they quite often they then give the the crown teams advice or feedback that this and this customer is now in Las Vegas or wherever it might be.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: That is there's something we could do on the way back when they fly back to try to course correct.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, maybe that's that is one sort of quite sort of overarching theme that people quite often people who work for Virgin Atlantic they're almost they're almost like entrepreneurs at heart because they um
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: um they want to make sure that we we succeed and we uh can get better and and quite many people also in our clubhouses in our lounges uh our customers say that you can really feel that the customers actually the the staff actually want to work there and they actually enjoy being in the shift instead of waiting to shift to end um yes and you can really feel the difference that that the crew the crew and the staff teams love being there uh it's their favorite place of work um and you can feel it and yeah which is a great uh selling point and asset for the business for the customers on board um you mentioned you are the new app which I think is developed within ChatGPT if I'm correct but please correct me if I'm not um but what tell us a bit more and what are the KPIs by which you will assess um how effective that's been so one is of course the uh overall ratings in the app app store so we are very proud that we already now after after only uh two months now so we we have a scoring of 4.5 in um in the Apple world which is very high for considering how new the app is um the way that it was designed it was really designed to be your travel companion so it's there to help you not only plan your journey but then when you've when you bought the ticket andor bought your holiday with Virgin Analytic holidays it is there to guide you throughout the process and give you incremental offers.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: We are continuously further of course improving the app um we will have the full holidays integration now very soon this spring um and then we will subsequently then develop it going forward.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Flying Club our frequent flyer program is really in the in the heart of of the design to make sure that that customers would start using the app more often not only not only when they travel but also for for other means um but it's it's a it's a continuous iteration is a continuous improvement um but it's there to be your travel companion and obviously the ai conscience is there to to make it easier.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay excellent stuff um we talked and you know it's your business to delight uh the customer a surprising delight but in I guess in our world in all worlds that they're they won't always go to plan so I'd be interested to know for your perspective as a customer what what what is your biggest frustration with the aviation industry that that we work in I think it's still the uh uh the overall value chain um where which customers have to go through and of course equally we need to go through there's still a lot of friction between various stakeholders you know might be airports or air traffic control or some of the service providers there's uh I think it's sometimes you think it's a miracle that every flight actually just gets actually away on time um or or lands on time because there's so many different service providers um in the journey and of course not all elements of the experience are equally competitive that some are you know monopolies etc which have higher cost or lower service levels so it it is the complexity complexity of the industry which which is a frustration but equally uh that is the reality of the industry and that makes it also very um interesting because you have various um stakeholders you need to deal with uh and our goal is to make sure that the customer doesn't actually know the difference customer shouldn't shouldn't need to know for whom any employee that you come across is working for that is unrelevant and uninteresting for the customer so how do we make sure that when people are on a virgin Atlantic journey they feel that Virgin Atlantic experience end to end um and that is really the service design principle that we have regardless where you are um of course it's always easiest in like in your biggest airports like in our case Heathrow or Manchester where we we we have more of our own people throughout the journey but we need to then be able to adjust and trust our service providers at the destination to to deliver that virgin experience regardless where you are how do you think we might remedy it as an industry that fragmentation I think one thing is that we again going back to people that we need to take care of those people that work for us.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's increasingly important for us as well when we talk to our subcontractors and our service providers that that sort of virgin flair flows through.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And of course that does require sort of regularly um you know business reviews etc to make sure that we can deliver it but the MPS uh going back to the MPS and the voice of a customer that is really the key vehicle for us to track you know how are the various airports um delivering the service that they are contracted to do.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And if we see any deviations from the norm that's something that we aim to tackle straight away.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: So just remembering that that we are all we're playing on the same team right for the one customer who passes through us uh at the end of the day what's your story you are how did you first um become excited and interested in aviation and get involved with the industry yes my first aviation job was actually in London uh back in 1998 I started while I was studying university in London I um worked in a call centre for SAA Scandinavian Airlines at Heathrow so that was my part-time job um and I would claim that that was probably the best call you can have to enter the aviation industry industry to work in a call center um because you came across all possible inquiries all possible um issues and opportunities to solve um and I will uh more generically I've always um been interested in travel yes I didn't travel myself sort of with a plane before I was 15 I think I was 15 when I flew first time on a plane so it's always been that sort of um excitement excitement about seeing the world um and that sort of triggers that excitement which I can still feel even after all these years.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Indeed you must have can you recall some of the uh the inquiries you got back in that job at the call center at SAS some some weird and wonderful um calls I imagine yeah no it's you know it can range anything on what what kind of animals you can bring on board or or um any other sort of exceptions on you know hold the plane I'm only one hour away from the airport type of uh comments which can be anything anything uh anything ranging from all possible aspects of life and you of course heard a lot of life stories as well people uh you know travel is emotional um it's an emotional uh journey for many people there's a lot of reasons why people travel uh some some are happy some are less happy and some people are are it's just fascinated to to share this story why they're traveling so it's uh it is uh there's always a new story waiting behind the corner indeed there'll be some younger listeners thinking what do you mean they can just stick it into a search engine or chat GPT yeah you used to call people up and ask those sort of questions couldn't you back in back then um and what lessons um do you look to learn and and keep your eye out for from other industries because you do experience in life you leave the the office tonight the the job and you will experience uh life as a customer supermarkets or you know car dealerships wherever it is we all go through that that flip so what do you do do you look out for things and what kind of ideas have you picked up on from other industries I think one industry where which from which airlines should learn more um and especially again technology should make it easier is is hospitality hotels more high end restaurants how do we how do how do we bring elements of that experience to to the aircraft or how do we bring that experience to lounges because in some cases I think it's just a bad excuse um that often we say in the industry that you know you can't do that in an aircraft environment or or you can't produce that in a in a sort of mass mass production way but still being personalized.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for that reason I think hotel industry and and restaurant in hospitality in general there's a lot we can learn.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes there is uh things that are more difficult in an aircraft environment but I think it's can be also a bit of an excuse to say that you can't do that in an aircraft.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore I think it's great that the aviation industry is now more diverse in terms of having those players who have taken the bold steps to do things differently and I think it just raises the it just raises the bar for everyone.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think um the customers of tomorrow are going to want from their passenger journey um you know I think my kids uh but there's generations coming through of totally different expectations and normalities to to um to what I might think.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: How do you see it changing?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Probably the biggest difference is that customers in the future will expect that you know them and you expect them to know what you need.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that goes back to the data and how do we how do we how do we use utilize and and translate a data point into an insight and how do we make sure that we um we can improve um so that's one and I think if we look at what the younger generations are interested in today is that it is about experiences.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: It could be even in destinations that you really want to get rid of your mobile phone you really want to detox and and take care of your wellbeing.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So well being wellbeing is an interesting topic as well that what could airlines do more in that space because um I wouldn't say that any airline has really cracked the code on on how to could we make customers feel better at the end of the flight versus how they felt before they boarded the aircraft that is it's a difficult crack uh code to crack but it's something that I think I would love to set as an ambition that customer actually is either more energized or motivated by the time they leave the aircraft than than than when they entered um and again technology getting that opportunity to pause pause and reflect when you're in the plane at least I I can say about myself that I I love being on the plane and not necessarily speaking to anyone because that gives me time to think and time to reflect because you get a bit of me time so to speak um and how do how do we make that as easy as possible for the customer that this should be our goal.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you stay in track with some of those trends as a business are you are you kind of leading um research groups are you how do you keep your ear to the ground I guess is where I'm coming from with my question.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah we do do use customer focus groups quite a lot um and increasingly we go to being quite specific on a certain theme just to make sure that we sort of capture and have enough time but of course AI we need to also remember that AI is a great tool as well to to try to capture some of those trends um but we still believe that that human touch is needed and therefore we do prefer having those human um focus groups as well to make sure that we get the right insight um which hopefully validates the uh the the direction that we are we are taking the airline to um and also what is inspiring for us is of course our owners both Delta but especially also Sir Richard Branson and and his children that you know they they raise the bar for us they they challenge the conventions and they want to be the one who sort of cheer us but also challenge us to be unapologetically virgin and really standing out from the crowded space of aviation today.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's an that's an exciting um mission to have that we can really stand out.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: What do you find most enjoyable about the job most satisfying it is when you see the virgin aircraft when you actually go to the airport um you see the the people's faces when they enter the plane you see our crew um ready for the flight and you see that sort of excitement um and you see that excitement every single time um that what motivates me to to make our service even better because it's these are you know big moments in people's lives it could be a leisure trip or could be a business trip but there's usually a good reason why people travel and how and how can we make that even better or more exciting that's that's our goal.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Indeed.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what would be your advice to our listeners on how to cope when it goes wrong because it does go wrong and um the unexpected happens and we all experience it.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know how how do you advise people to react when the um the breaks do not go their way and there is an angry customer who's pretty annoyed about something I think one is that you need to tackle it straight on and try to solve it as quickly as we as you can and that and that is uh our job to give our frontline staff the uh both the technological um but also the empowerment um to try to course correct um and really focusing on that service recovery because like I said earlier it can actually turn into even more loyal customer when when when you treat uh irregularity in a positive way um yeah it's it's being proactive I think that and being frank and honest about what happened instead of um coming up with any generic excuses I think that that is what annoys people most um and again we aim to do that in a virgin way where people feel that we care um what else can we expect from yourself and Virgin Atlantic in in the coming year um and because this is all still you know you you you moved into the role in January I believe so it's still very fresh.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes we definitely are uh further investing in our clubhouses our lounges uh we are um entering uh a significant retrofit program for our 787 aircraft we have the Starlink implementation this year um we're actively then exploring how do we how do we how how how can we elevate the in-flight experience both either through um elements that we give for free but especially how can we commercialize some of the service elements increment incremental service elements going forward we um believe that we should widen our loyalty ecosystem so we have a lot of great stuff um on the loyalty front um and again teaming up with our SkyTeam airline partners across the globe uh making sure that we can bring customers that seamless experience with the virgin flare um when they fly with us and really making sure that we're there as human beings because at the end of the day we all want and need that human interaction make it make you feel special exactly and we're we um we're looking forward to more of that human interaction with yourself and others in um the EMEA event and Antoine retailing in a couple of weeks you are um thank you so much for your time and insight on the podcast and I want to get a good MPS score from you because I know you've got another meeting so I better finish this up here and make sure you get away to that one on time.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Any any final thoughts or reflections or anything else you would want to um flag with our audience ahead of that session in a few weeks?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Not to say that come with an open mind uh we love being the most loved travel company and our our goal is to remain so uh and to delight you going forward.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you really excited to hear the full session and really appreciate your time this afternoon.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you Max