Latest / Salish Wolf / #64 Phil Rockhauser on Project Quiver

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#64 Phil Rockhauser on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

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Welcome to Project Quiver, a father daughter journey across
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the globe to capture the artistry and spirit of the
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world's finest traditional bow carvers.
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I'm Todd, the father. Ella is my daughter.
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Together we're on a mission to create a stunning coffee table
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book that profiles more than a dozen master bow years and their
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unparalleled skill. For each chapter, we travel to
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the Bow Years workshop. Carve a bow under his guidance,
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photograph his woodcraft in detail, and share his story here
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on the Salish Wolf Podcast. The book is called Quiver the
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Art of Life. Through Bowcraft and this
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journey, our living story is Project Quiver.
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Phil, it's great to see you, man.
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It's great to see you again too. So when are you heading the
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mountains? So next week probably we start
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snowboarding again. So we will see.
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It's not enough. The season normally not normally
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from 1st of December, most of the time till end of April.
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So and you have time to do snowboarding and skiing of
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course, but I prefer snowboarding.
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The whole family or is it just you?
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My wife is snowboarding, I'm snowboarding, but we all do
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skiing as well, so we learned it as well.
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My kids are skiing because I told them first skiing, then
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snowboarding and my boys starting to do snowboarding this
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winter. Nice.
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That's awesome. Yeah.
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So anyway, thanks for doing this.
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Thanks for hopping on the call, and also thank you for hosting
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us on such short notice. This when was it?
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October. Yes, it was amazing.
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So, yeah, we had a Boyer who had been lined up for our project in
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Kyrgyzstan, Jerry Tangri of Tangri Bows, and he had an
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injury, had to pull out. You were recommended by numerous
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people who were featuring in Project Quiver.
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And so we reached out to you and I think within like a week we
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had it scheduled to to come and see you and you and your wife,
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your family, you guys were amazing hosts.
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So thank you so much for that. Thanks for having me and it was
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a pleasure to have you there, although we only had two days,
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right, But I think we made the best out of it.
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It was quick. It was quick.
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But yeah. But yeah, we, we did it.
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We, we came to or we did what we came to accomplish.
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And I learned a ton. And that was actually even more
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important for me is getting in there and spending time with you
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and learning the way you do things and working with what,
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the way that you have learned to do it.
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So I was really beneficial and and then you gifted me a bow,
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which I just want to say thank you so much.
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That was incredibly generous of you.
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And both bows have arrived safely back in Canada.
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So I'll be reunited with them in December and we'll take some
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good photographs of them. That's, that's, that's good to
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know that they all safely, that they all safely arrive in
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Canada. Yeah, these 14 bows that we.
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All 14 bows. All 14 bows that we carve for
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for the book made it. So that was a relief, yeah.
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That is very good because that was your mission, right?
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To learn something else bows for your book.
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Yeah, exactly how did you start with bow carving?
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I started bow carving already 1314 years ago.
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You know, when I was a kid, we used to play in the mountains
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with our little stick bows made from Hazel.
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I think that was kind of always in my brain, always in my
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memory, but somehow forgotten. You know what I mean?
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When you grow up. And then I I was working for
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quite a long time in the software business, which is,
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yeah, you earn good money, of course, but in the end of the
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day, you maybe have produced a few lines of code, but it's
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nothing you can grab. You know what I mean?
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Nothing you can nothing you can hold in your hands in the end of
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the day. And so I, the feeling came back.
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I wanted to do something with my hands again.
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So I came back to, to making both.
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I think that's, that's the connection to my childhood
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somehow. And the feeling was there.
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I want to make a bow. And then I bought my first book.
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And then the Chinese started with a Christmas present from my
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family. They bought me my first stave.
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What kind of what? It was ash.
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It was ash. I had no tools, no nothing, no
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idea, just my book. I bought just a few tools and
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had no workshop, nothing. So I made everything out in the
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garden, on the wooden garden table.
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And yeah, it was quite some fun, quite a challenge.
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I was out there in the snow, so I couldn't wait to start.
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So I was out there in the snow, it was snowing and I was carving
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the boat. So it was fun.
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It was fun. And what was the book?
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The book was called Das Bogenbowabu, which means the the
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the Boyers book. Yeah, it's not the Boyers Bible.
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I know there's something like this available, but it's just a
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German book from German boys or Swiss boys.
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Yeah, that's it. It was fun, yeah.
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And you learn, you carve that first bow entirely from what you
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learned in that book. Yes, yes, right.
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All all the information I had I got from the book.
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And yeah, it was quite a challenge, of course, because
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they don't give you, they just give you final measures of the
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bow. You know what I mean?
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And you're going there, but you don't know what to do in in
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between because the bow is the stave was sick like this.
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And then you start to carve and you wonder when it starts to
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bend and everything. So that's it.
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So learning by doing. What was it that you carved?
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Pardon what? What kind of bow did you carve?
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It was, it was a simple flat bow, so nothing special, but it
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worked. It's still in my workshop and
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it's still shooting around 30 or 30 lbs something.
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So it's still shooting, still worked.
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And was that enough to spark your passion, or did it take
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some time before you really started to do it in earnest?
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It having the the, the stuff, the rough stuff in my hands
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started the fire already. So nothing more, nothing more.
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So I had the staff, I had the book, and I started and I
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couldn't stop anymore. What were the first tools that
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you bought to do that, Bell? Because you said you didn't have
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any tools. I just bought a draw knife
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because and the book told me I need a draw knife.
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So I, it's not that easy to, to get a draw knife where I live
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in, in, in the shop or wherever. So I found I found a little shop
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who is selling tools like that. So I got 1 and that's it.
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I had a rasp at home. I had a saw at home, a file and
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that's it And that's how I started.
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So no, nothing else. No, no cut, scrape or nothing.
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Yeah. And you mentioned it's not easy
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where you are living. You are.
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Well, tell the listeners where you are living and you tell us a
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little bit about like the the landscape where you are because
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it's so beautiful. I'm, I'm living in, in Mishtat,
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which is a small, small town close to Mishta say, which means
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Mishta Lake. It's a it's quite a Big Lake.
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It's the deepest lake of the, of the state I live in.
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So it's about, I think more than 100 meters deep.
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So it's beautiful region within the mountains.
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I'm there are mountains all around you can see from to Italy
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to Slovenia. And it's quite a nice place.
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Yeah, it's quite remote, I would say.
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Yeah, it's about 900 meters above sea level.
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And but yeah, the the the, the view I think is rewarding and
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it's worth it. It's amazing.
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And right outside of your workshop you have that stunning
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kind of valley, Lakeview, Mountain View.
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It's gorgeous. And I don't think you mentioned
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it, you're in Austria. You mentioned Millstop, but
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that's in in southern Austria and we came to you from
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Slovenia. We came on a train through
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Slovenia and you, you're not too far from the border.
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Right, right. I'm not too far from the border.
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So our we are the most southern state of Austria.
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So we are our border, we share our border with Italy and
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Slovenia. So it's not that far too
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Mediterranean or Adriatic Sea as well.
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So it's quite good. And as I said before, from where
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I live I can see mountains in Slovenia, in Slovenia and Italy
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too, so it's not that. Far and after that first bow,
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did you start right away on carving others?
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Yes, you know, it's when you're when you're a beginner, you
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don't have you don't have your, your network, you don't know any
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people you know from where I could get wood because I don't
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have a forest or something where I can harvest my wood on my own.
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So I asked my family where they got to stay from and I didn't
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know that before. But we have a master Boyer in,
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in Corinthia with more than 40 years of experience, which is
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who is Mika. He's kind of a friend and mentor
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now for me after all these years and I go, I went there.
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I showed him my first PO and she liked it.
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So that's, that's how it went on.
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So I always, when I need something or want to know
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something, I ask him. And back then I, I, I went to
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his place and bought two more steps.
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And yeah, we stayed in contact and he gave me lessons and
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courses and yeah, that's how it how how it continued.
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And has he been your primary teacher?
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Yes, yes, He's been my primary teacher.
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Of course, when you, when you then make your own experience,
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you start to search on the Internet as well and you get to
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know people as well. And we had I found some friends,
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I would say having the same passion.
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We share our experience, of course, but he's the main, my
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main teacher, Yeah. And what's Misha's last name?
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Moif. Misha voice for and he's yeah,
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yeah, He's mentored other Bowyers too, right?
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Right. Other bowyers too.
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I think Mara bows. He was extra.
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Experience. He mentioned Misha as well.
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That's amazing. I would love to see, I'd love to
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see his work. We didn't even did not know
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about him and we were planning our project.
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Yeah, he is he still actively he.
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Retired. He retired kind of two or three
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years back. Well, he was.
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Yeah. It was his, his, his.
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He was doing it for a living. You know, he was giving courses
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and lessons. And you could go there for a
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weekend like from Friday to Sunday and carve a bull.
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You could even stay there. They had a have a very, very
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nice free or 400 year old farmhouse, which they renovated.
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So we we stayed there for the whole weekend.
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And it's when you think my place is remote.
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This is much more remote. You're in the middle of nowhere.
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So it's, it's quite cool. And he has a very cool workshop
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in a very old stable. And yeah, that's amazing, A very
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cool place. So yeah, I plan to go there with
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you if you would have had four days or five days.
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So we we definitely should have gone there too as well.
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Yeah, Well, maybe we'll come back.
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Hopefully. Hopefully.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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So you started carving bows and was it something that you
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intended to do as a kind of a side career or was it just a a
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full on passion project at first?
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It was full on passion. I was thinking about about kind
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of making a business out of it. But you know, back then the time
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wasn't right. We were new here in, in
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Corinthia, We had a house, everything, you know, kids were
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very small and in school. So I decided, I decided to go on
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with my regular job and do this, keep this as a as a passion, as
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a hobby, which now when I think about it and look at it in the
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in the mirror. That's.
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Hope you understand what I mean. It's it's better.
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It's better now how it is because if you make a job out of
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your hobby, you lose your hobby. You know what I mean?
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Yeah. And, and when it when it turns
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or becomes a job, it's getting yeah, more stressful.
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You have to to get customers, of course, you have to have the
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right word always. You have to satisfy your
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customers. So you're not doing it for, for
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fun anymore, for learning you, you're doing it for a living.
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And it's quite something different.
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So I now today, I like it how it is.
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And even if it was hard for me back then to say, no, I don't
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make a job out of it, I don't and that's it.
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But now it's much better as it is.
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And to the the decision was right, definitely.
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Yeah. So what does it mean to you as a
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hobby and as a passion? Like what has it brought to your
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life? It brought a lot to my life.
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A lot. Because when you're doing
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something with your hands, you know you have to.
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It's not making bows only. So you have to make some tools,
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some helpful stuff you need in the workshop to make you
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different kind of bows. So you learn you see different
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sides of the of the craftsmanship and everything.
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And the most important thing for me was it taught me patience.
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It really taught me patience because in the beginning, in the
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beginning I was kind of of rushing, you know what I mean?
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So it's, it's like you, you want to, you want to see the final
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result, you want to shoot it, you want to see whether it works
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or not. And so you're sometimes rushing
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through the process of making the ball.
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And so it taught me patience, a lot of, a lot of patience.
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And this is very good and helped me to calm down, calm down a
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little bit. So that's, that's for me the
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most important aspect. So everything has its time and
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just go with the flow. And yeah, when you have a
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problem and cannot solve it today, just put it in the
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corner. Sleep one night and the next day
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will be much better. And have you found that has
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helped in other areas of your life as well?
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Of course, of course, of course, patience is, is, is very
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important because when you're rushing through life, you miss a
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lot of things, the small things, for example.
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And, and when you're always in this, in this kind of stress
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mode, it's also not good for your health, of course.
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And you have to learn that in life.
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You have to learn it. I learned it.
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I am, I'm not amazed because I also know what it feels like to
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carve bows. But when I started carving bows
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years ago, you had told me that it was a, a therapeutic
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technique. I, I wouldn't have known what
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you were talking about, but pretty much every Bowyer who
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were featuring in this book and on this project, they've, they
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say the same thing, that carving bows is their therapy, whether
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it helps them with stress or anxiety or whatever.
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It's really helped a lot of people change their lives
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immensely. It's really incredible.
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Right IIA 100% me. Yeah, so that first bow that you
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carved was out of ash. What do you normally carve bows
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with now or what? What's your favorite bow would?
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I take whatever I can get and I'm, I'm eager to find out what
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the, the, the wood species can do for you or what they can
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handle. But to be honest with you, it's,
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it's not a wood species you find here in our forests, but I love
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Osage. I love Osage, of course, because
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you can do a lot of different styles of bow with it.
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Second is I would say ash because I have made a lot of
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bows out of ash. U is awesome if you could get
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some, but it's protected here in Austria and it's hard to get it.
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And of course, Elm. So these are I think the the
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four most most important wood species you can get.
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So, but I'm honest with you, I love Osage.
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Yeah, of course. And I think, sorry, I we carved
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in our elbow, didn't we? Right, right.
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Elm OK. And then you, you gifted me Ash
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Bow. Right, it was a ash bow.
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Right, OK, yeah, it's such beautiful wood to work with Elm
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and ash, all of those. I'm really excited.
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I was probably telling you about lemon wood and I was trying to
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track it down here in Costa Rica, and now that I know what
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it looks like, I'm finding it everywhere.
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I'm so excited. So I, I'm planning some some
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harvest missions to go out and take little bits here and there,
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but it's literally, it grows in abundance here.
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So my, my yard, my archery range, like is surrounded by
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lemon wood trees that I had no idea until like 3 months ago
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that existed there. Yeah, I.
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I'm, I'm curious how it turns out and sent me photos as soon
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as you have the first bow finished, Yeah.
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I will for sure. So with your bow carving, you do
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sell bows to customers. Do you take custom orders or is
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it selling stuff as you finish it?
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It's as I said, it's, it's a hobby and, and I from time to
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time I sell one, but not to earn money or anything.
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So it's just to to have some, some extra money to buy the next
19:44
steps or some, some useful tool, but that's it.
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So I keep it as a hobby and. Yeah, that's a common thing,
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yeah. And that's fine for me, most of
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the bows. You carve a whole.
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Just for free, because they're very.
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Generous. Instead of instead of putting
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them on the shelf and doing nothing with it.
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So they have a purpose then, right?
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And so my best friends, I think they are definitely worth it.
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So they deserve it. That's awesome.
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And you've, you carve a lot of different styles of bows,
20:23
including some horn bows, right? Right, I tried to that's, that's
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my, my journey in, in, in bow carving.
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I tried to find out how, how all this stuff comes together.
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So I started with simple flat bows, print bows, and then I
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went on to to laminated bows with, with fiberglass stuff like
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this. So modern bows and then I went
20:55
over to to home bows or composite bows, so made from
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from boot, horn and sinew. And yeah, I'm currently working
21:04
on on one as well. So I'm currently preparing
21:07
senior for a new one. So we will see how it turns out.
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This is this is also with home bows.
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You learn a lot about patients because you have this long, long
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periods of time. You have to wait until
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everything dries before you can go on.
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And if you go on too early or maybe all the the work you put
21:28
in is gone within a few seconds. So patience is important.
21:33
Yeah, what type? What type of horn are you using?
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I use Buffalo horn, so you don't get it here in Austria.
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I, I have a, a fellow Boyer who is working a lot with, with horn
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and he got some, quite some good contacts in India because you
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can get the horn with, with approximately 40 centimeters
21:58
length here in Austria. So we get it there, we buy them
22:02
together and that's, that's quite good.
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And then what are you using for the core?
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What type of wood? For the core, I'm using Maple
22:11
and yeah, it's it's Maple core. What kind of Maple?
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We call it beg. Ah, one, which if I translate it
22:19
that way, it would be like mountain Maple.
22:21
OK. And.
22:23
That's something you can get locally.
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Yeah, yeah, that's very easy to get locally because Maple you
22:29
have a carved. South post from that.
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I I've never tried it. I know people are doing it but I
22:35
never tried it. I was only using it for
22:37
composite pose. Because that's.
22:39
That's the wood they used also in the past for it.
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OK, And what bows are you working on right now?
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You got a horn one on the go. Are you making any softball a
22:47
softball right now? Yes, yes, I, I prepared 11 more
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Molaga Bebo, which is just just right before floor tailoring.
22:59
I mean, I prepared two of them, one from all such, one from Ash.
23:04
And yeah, they're waiting in the workshop right now to to be
23:09
finished. So I'm I have 3 bows in the
23:12
making. Up nice and you have an
23:14
interesting style, at least that I found it was it was unique
23:18
among all the other Bowers who I carved with and that you work
23:21
with. Is it planes?
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Is that what you say like you you you bring together different
23:27
planes. Can you talk a bit about your
23:29
style and how that came about? Yes, there are two reasons I'm
23:35
using that or where I saw it or learned it.
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So the first thing is there is the book by Dean Torches, which
23:43
was a famous Boyer in the USI think in English it's called
23:48
Hunting the Osage bow and he's using that that methodology as
23:54
well. And then my, my mentor, my
24:00
teacher Mika uses this as well. And he, he taught me how to use
24:07
it. And it's it to me, it definitely
24:10
makes sense because it's easier to, to see straight lines, you
24:16
know what I mean, to, or follow clear lines instead of round
24:20
areas. So when you have edges, you can
24:22
follow them with your eyes and you can see if something is
24:26
going on. And so the idea behind it is
24:28
that you have straight lines, or at least clear lines.
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I, I think it's better to explain it that way, which
24:35
you're following like the back of your bow and everything.
24:39
So you can, you can transfer the the curvature of the back of the
24:45
bow to the belly of the bow. And so you, you, you get it
24:49
pretty easy. I think that way.
24:51
It's a you. Know what I I think I had
24:53
noticed in the carving process is that through all stages up
24:57
until the final, the final stage, that sharp angles all
25:02
around the bow and you don't have anything rounded.
25:04
It's all flat planes coming together at different angles.
25:09
Is that correct? Right.
25:10
Right, that's it. That's it.
25:13
Of course, I, I round the edges and the corners then before we
25:17
start bending the ball, of course.
25:20
But during the process of carving it, it's all clear.
25:25
Clear edges, clear lines, and that's that's it, right?
25:29
Yeah, yeah. And the one that I carved, was
25:32
it a Mulligan bet that we carved?
25:33
Yeah, right, right. I know.
25:36
Yeah. OK, It had it.
25:38
Looks like a stealth fighter jet in the way that we kept some of
25:41
the really sharp angles on the the outer limbs.
25:46
It looks really, really unique that way.
25:48
It's very cool. Yeah, that's, that's, that's
25:51
that's how I like it because for this bowl, you know, it has this
25:57
stiff limbs at the end this and normally they are kind of round,
26:03
but I kept it then after having all this this areas like this, I
26:09
kept it then triangular and just calved a hollow, hollow faces on
26:15
each side. And I really, I really liked it
26:18
because it it looks, yeah, the triangular shape is pretty
26:22
stable, you know, pretty strong. And then it looks to me it looks
26:27
kind of modern. So I like, I like to do it
26:30
rockhouses style. So I mix UPS some certain styles
26:35
maybe, but I liked it. Counselor style, I like that.
26:38
Yeah. And Speaking of the rock Houser
26:43
style, you've written a couple books on building bows.
26:47
Can you talk a bit about those? Right, right.
26:50
I told you I started with one book which was dead thick and
26:55
dead big. And there's a lot of information
26:59
in which, in my opinion, you don't need to do your first bow.
27:04
You know, the most important things are kind of missing, but
27:07
you get a lot of a lot of information about history of
27:12
bows and everything, which is of course, quite, quite important
27:16
to understand everything, where it's coming from and so on.
27:18
But when you want to make a bow, you want to get started, right?
27:22
And that was my idea. So I start, I wrote a book,
27:25
which is a kind of pocketbook. Do you call it that way?
27:31
Yeah, yeah. I mean, literally, you designed
27:33
it to fit in the pocket. So yes.
27:35
Right, right. And I and I kept some pages in
27:38
between the chapters empty to have room for your personal
27:43
notes because you know you everyone has its own journey
27:47
with making both. So I thought it would be quite
27:49
helpful to have pages to note down your experience, your
27:53
information, and how it works for you.
27:57
And yeah, that was the idea. So one simple small book that
28:00
fits in your pocket, you can take it into your workshop and
28:04
really start making bows right from scratch without any further
28:09
information. Just about making bows, which
28:12
tools you need, how you get started, the shape of a flat bow
28:16
and stuff like this. And that's it.
28:18
And when did you write the first one?
28:20
Pardon. When did you write the first
28:22
book? Well, it was about, I think it
28:24
was approximately 5 years ago. You know, it was quite the
28:31
beginning of this COVID time. So I found some time to reflect
28:35
on my work and I had some extra time.
28:40
And so I started writing which, which was quite a good process
28:44
for me as well, because it was kind of after 10 years or nearly
28:51
10 years, you sat there and write about your work or I wrote
28:55
about my work and, and which was pretty cool because you, you can
29:01
see what you did, what you achieved, and you can also see
29:04
what you would do different now. So it was for me kind of a
29:08
reflection summing up the 1st 10 years kind of.
29:12
So from this point of view, this was also very helpful for me as
29:17
well. Yeah.
29:18
And what's the title? The title is Bulbao, the
29:23
Anfinger or the Nufa Sukhmak Klug.
29:26
That's what it's called in German.
29:27
So Bulbao just simply means bow making or bow carving.
29:33
And the Anfinger means the beginning.
29:36
And then it's Nufa Sukhmaklug. It's that's, that's fun to to
29:42
translate. It's kind of just trying makes
29:46
you smarter, something like this, you know what I mean?
29:49
OK, Yeah. So just try.
29:52
And then recent, yeah. And then recently you published
29:57
your second one. What's that?
29:58
How's that different and what's that one called?
30:02
It's, it's, it, it's based on the first one.
30:06
Of course, the idea behind it was the same small book for your
30:10
pocket and your workshop, empty pages in between.
30:14
But I tried to explain like further techniques which you
30:18
don't need from the very beginning, but which are helpful
30:22
when you want to go on like splicing the bow or the staff
30:30
and stuff like this, or putting horn or horn knocks on and how
30:34
to make handle wraps and everything that's that's in
30:37
there. And what's the title on that
30:39
one? That's that's the second one is
30:44
also called boom power, of course.
30:47
And yeah, I haven't I haven't touched it quite in a while.
30:54
The second one, Wait a second, you.
30:58
Gave me two copies, but I don't have it.
31:00
I don't have it here with me. Give me one second.
31:04
Yeah, sorry. I'm back.
31:09
No problem. Sorry.
31:10
Yeah. It's it's ridiculous that I
31:12
forget the, the name of my, my, my own book.
31:15
But you know, I when when I was writing the book, for me, it was
31:20
harder to for the first book, it was pretty simple and pretty
31:24
easy to find a title because it's something like the
31:29
beginning, you know, and for the second book, it was very hard
31:32
for me to find the title. And I was thinking about a lot
31:35
of different title titles. And yeah, here it is.
31:40
So it's bone bow Vitafir and the technique in order, no evil
31:45
maximizer. So that means bone bow.
31:47
You know, it's carving a bowl like something like this.
31:51
And then it's beta fear, entertaining something like
31:56
specialized techniques, you know.
31:58
And then the rest is no Uber Martin master, which is a
32:03
German. A German phrase which means only
32:07
practicing makes you a master. Something like this.
32:10
All right, Yeah. Where can people get those?
32:16
I, I, I published it in my, on my own, you know, I don't have a
32:20
publisher. You can do that in Austria that
32:23
you self publish your stuff. And one you can get one is sold
32:32
at German magazine, which they just, they just traded to, to,
32:39
to get a few books a year. And if they want one and they
32:42
just have it on their home page for me, for example.
32:45
And the rest can it's just direct message to me and
32:49
Instagram, for example. Then I sent them the book.
32:53
I have a copy of the book. Yeah.
32:55
So it's, it's nothing for me. Just the most important thing is
32:59
I don't want to earn money with that.
33:01
So it's not earning money. So it's the book is is quite it
33:06
takes. Money to publish a book so.
33:08
Yeah, I know. I heard it.
33:11
And but the idea is only I want to share my knowledge.
33:16
That's all I want to do because it's there's no secret, no
33:19
nothing. And I made my experience and I
33:22
want to share that knowledge. That's all.
33:25
And I think most of the most of the books I I have given to to
33:30
people who wanted to know about more about bow making.
33:34
So it's it's not too expensive making them.
33:37
I made everything on my own except the layout, which a
33:40
friend of me helped me layout of the book.
33:43
He's doing that for a living. And the rest is just my, my own,
33:48
my own stuff. Most of the stuff it's it's just
33:52
about sharing knowledge. Yeah, well, and that's so much
33:55
about what bow carving is. Almost all the bow yers want to
33:57
share their knowledge, and that's what I found, what Ella
34:02
and I found everywhere we went, everyone was more than happy to
34:05
share their knowledge and experience and teach us how to
34:08
carve amazing bows. Other than other than Mika, who
34:12
else has had a role or an influence in your bow carving?
34:18
Got to know a a pretty cool guy, which is also in Austria, a
34:23
tears. He's a really cool guy and he
34:27
helped me out with food from time to time.
34:30
He is also pretty, pretty cool and amazing and a really cool
34:33
Boyer. And, and of course I was reading
34:38
books, tried to read books, different books, like Dean
34:41
Torture's the book I told you before was very, very good for
34:45
me and I really loved. And from time to time I still
34:47
read it because now I understand things which I have overseen
34:53
when I was reading it for the first time.
34:55
And he also writes it like like a novel.
34:58
You know, he, the, the goal in his book is to have a bow for
35:02
his, for him and his friend to go bow hunting.
35:06
And so he describes it like like a novel.
35:08
So they meet, they start to make their bow and so on until they
35:13
go hunting. So these are the most
35:16
influential persons, I would say, for me.
35:19
Yeah, and do you teach others? Yes, from time to time I teach
35:24
others so, but I, it's just one person at a time.
35:32
And it. Yeah.
35:35
And it has to kind of, we have to match somehow, you know what
35:41
I mean? So I I did make it.
35:45
Let's make it simple. I decide who I want to teach
35:49
because I want to have fun in the workshop.
35:51
I want to have a good mood in the workshop.
35:56
I want to have a person who is interested because that makes it
36:02
much easier to work with. The goal is not to have a bowl
36:06
in. I mean, the goal is to have a
36:08
working bowl in the end, of course, you know what I mean.
36:11
But the journey, yeah, until you have your, is for me, very
36:18
important. Right.
36:19
Yeah, absolutely. And I resonate with that
36:23
completely. Like being stuck in a workshop
36:26
for three or four days with someone who you don't align with
36:30
says it's probably not the healthiest thing to do when it's
36:33
your passion. Right, right, right.
36:37
Yeah. So it's all about the all about
36:39
the fun and the passion, yeah. You mentioned you carve mostly
36:42
with hand tools now. Have you acquired other things
36:45
beyond the original draw knife and rasps?
36:49
Yes. Like what are your?
36:50
What are your go to tools? Of course, a bunch of files,
36:56
card scrapers and and the draw knives for and and a few years
37:05
back I bought the a bandsaw, which helps me a lot when you
37:10
when you get to to get out the rough shape of out of the out of
37:16
the staff because I told you about patients before.
37:19
But the fun starts for me when, when, when not the carving out
37:29
the, the rough shape, shaping the boat and until it starts to
37:33
bend. That's for me the the very
37:36
important process. That's the only, the only, the
37:39
only time when I use electrical pilot machine.
37:43
So this is my bandsaw and that's it.
37:45
And for your staves, are you buying all of them or do you
37:47
harvest some of your own? Yeah, as I said before, I don't
37:51
have my own forest or where I can go to.
37:54
So I asked the farmers in the neighborhood.
37:59
So if they if they cut some trees and there's something I
38:04
can use, I asked them, of course.
38:07
And from time to time I get some wood over there.
38:10
And the other source for Boa wood for me is my, my network,
38:17
my friends. I got to know and we're trading
38:20
wood then, or I simply buy a few stars from them and that's
38:25
that's it, Yeah. Yeah.
38:27
What are some of the more unique words that you've worked with?
38:31
You know, unique for me, you is very, very special.
38:36
You is very special because it's it's not maybe it's not kind of
38:40
unique, but it's kind of rare. And it's really, really hard to
38:48
get in Austria for, for a reasonable price.
38:52
So I am very, very happy when I can get one staff.
38:58
And then I, I really keep it done in my small workshop until
39:04
it fits, until the time is right and then I take it out.
39:07
So that's for me unique, you know?
39:09
Yeah, it's amazing. It's not more available because
39:12
there are so many yew trees in Austria and Switzerland.
39:17
I think after we left you we went to Salzburg seeing huge yew
39:21
trees everywhere. But like you said, I guess
39:24
they're protected. That changes things.
39:28
Yeah, but have. You know, have you used in?
39:32
Yeah, you know, of course it's the yew.
39:35
As a lot of bowyers know, the Yew Tree was pretty much
39:38
decimated back in the the heyday of bow carving.
39:42
So you mentioned you give bows to a lot of your friends or any
39:47
of your other friends into carving or some more just
39:53
they're into archery or they just get bows because they're
39:55
friends with you. I think it's it's the second and
40:01
the third one. A few of them, of course, are in
40:03
archery, otherwise that wouldn't make sense.
40:07
And the the other friends, they find it amazing what I do and
40:14
they. They, they like, yeah, they,
40:18
they see it as as a piece of art, you know what I mean?
40:21
And and that's, yeah, that's it, yeah.
40:24
Have any of them carved a bow with you?
40:27
Yes, one started a year back, but the the bow is still
40:32
unfinished in my workshop, so here's a lot of time.
40:35
Wow. Yeah.
40:38
So that's patience, you know, as I'm still waiting.
40:41
Yeah, it's so amazing. I wonder what it is that's so
40:44
unique and and bow yours that like once we carve one, we're
40:49
just absolutely hooked and like it's something we'll probably do
40:53
until the day we die and then other people just have no
40:56
interest whatsoever. Yeah.
41:00
So, yeah, I don't know where this comes from.
41:02
So you're when you're hooked, you're hooked and then it it
41:05
goes on. I mean, there are times you're
41:08
for me, it's there are times you're not feeling OK, you know,
41:15
for making bows and so and then you make a few less a year.
41:18
But there are times when you're kind of really on fire and then
41:22
you one after the other, even if you don't need them or even if
41:26
you don't sell them, but you have them, you know, you made
41:28
them, you learned a lot, you got a new experience and that's it.
41:32
So when you're hooked, you hooked.
41:34
So when you're on fire, it's. Yeah.
41:38
Just about making bows. What?
41:41
What other hobbies do you have? Of course there's snowboarding.
41:44
What else do you do though? Yes, snowboarding.
41:47
When I was younger we went a lot of times to Spain for surfing
41:51
just like you do. We are not that lucky to have
41:54
the the ocean right next door. But snowboarding of course was
41:59
always my favorite mountain biking.
42:02
I do it with my son now in the I was, I've been doing it for
42:08
quite a long time now and I really love it.
42:09
You know, I have all the mountains around me, the lake.
42:12
So it's quite a nice era to. Do mountain biking.
42:15
Yeah. So beautiful.
42:17
Yeah, yeah. And how old's?
42:19
Your at least two times a week. At least two times a week ago
42:22
Mon biking my son turned 12. Oh.
42:25
OK, Same age as my son. Yeah, it's such a fun age to
42:28
spend time with him and and do things like that.
42:31
And then your daughter is younger, right?
42:34
Roger, Roger. She's soon 10.
42:37
She's currently nine. Yeah.
42:39
And but soon she turns 10. Yeah.
42:41
And do either of them do archery with you, or even come into the
42:46
workshop and learn about bow carving?
42:48
I, you know, I don't force them to do that.
42:54
They have to come on their own and my boy is not so interested.
43:02
You know, I don't force them for because when they come on their
43:06
own and say I want to do that, it's much better.
43:09
And they normally stay then with what they do and they love what
43:13
they do. When I force them and say just
43:16
have to learn to hold the tool or something, do it now, it
43:19
wouldn't work. So my son is not that
43:22
interested. My daughter is much more
43:23
interested and she comes to me to the workshop making stuff,
43:27
even if it's not related to both or anything.
43:32
But she comes to the workshop, she uses hammer, some nails, put
43:35
something together and is happy and that makes me happy as well.
43:40
That's awesome. Yeah.
43:41
She joined us quite a bit when we were in there.
43:43
It was great. Right.
43:45
Right. And then outside, outside of
43:47
your workshop, you have a little farm.
43:50
Sorry. Go ahead.
43:51
And, and they, they, yeah. And they can do everything in
43:56
the workshop. You know, I even have some some
44:00
sketches and drawings on my table because they were allowed
44:04
to to draw my work table with a pencil.
44:08
And I still have them right in the corner.
44:10
They are already five years old. And I don't clean the table and
44:15
right in this area because it's so fun.
44:17
What's standing there in the pictures?
44:19
Yeah, that's awesome. I love that.
44:22
Yeah, so it's just right in the corner.
44:25
I don't touch it. I hope it stays there forever.
44:30
Yeah. And then outside you have
44:33
beautiful chickens running around, a little flock of silky
44:37
chickens, which are adorable, and then a few cats that
44:41
sometimes chase the chickens. It's a beautiful, beautiful,
44:46
like, bucolic setting that you have.
44:49
And all the fruit trees and everything that you're growing
44:51
in your garden overlooking the lake.
44:53
Yeah, it's really gorgeous. Yes, yes, we have this few
44:56
chicken just for the kids. You know, they don't make a lot
45:00
of work with the kids, take care of them or we do our parents,
45:05
you know, we get some some fresh eggs and that's it.
45:10
So what we love animals. We love animals, all of us.
45:14
What's any future things in the working for Beau Carving?
45:20
Are you continuing on just with passion projects as they come
45:23
up? I'm from time to time I try to
45:27
do different things, so try to evolve as a boreer and as a
45:33
person. So I'm, I'm always looking for,
45:36
for new projects. I really love making simple flat
45:40
bolts or flat bolts or the Molagabe design.
45:45
I learned to do like laminated bows, which I now can say I
45:50
don't, I don't want to do it any further because it's like, yeah,
45:54
it's just straight, you know what I mean?
45:56
There's no light grain you have to follow.
45:59
So I prefer wooden bows. That's what I learned.
46:03
I love to, to make composite bows or horn bows and I have to
46:11
still have to learn a lot of a lot of it takes quite some time
46:15
to make them. I've made a few of them.
46:19
Each one was getting kind of better, but they're not perfect.
46:27
And, and this is, I want to, to improve on the next, the next
46:34
maybe half year or year. So that's why I have another one
46:37
in the making. And yeah, this is where I want
46:40
to learn much more because it's it's really cool.
46:44
It's like, yeah, just when you think about senior and the
46:50
senior backing, it's just like fiberglass, but it's like
46:54
hundreds and thousands of years old, you know what I mean?
46:57
The technique. And that's, that's amazing.
46:59
And that's what I that's what I want to improve.
47:02
Is there anything about bow building at this stage that
47:06
intimidates you? Intimidates means like.
47:13
Or is there any stage in your Yeah, is there any stage in a,
47:19
in a bow building process? Or you feel like anxiety or, or
47:23
kind of like, oh, this is for me, it's always, always the
47:27
final stages of the tiller. It's always like, oh God, I got
47:31
to pull this thing to 29 inches. I hope it doesn't break.
47:34
But the more I worked with expert Bowyer such as yourself,
47:37
the more I realized that, you know, those a lot of bowyers
47:40
just don't have that same anxiety that I have about that.
47:46
Yes, I understand what you're saying.
47:48
I understand what you're saying. I I really take my time when
47:52
tailoring the bow and really go slowly, inch by inch down to the
47:57
final draw length. From time to time you have to
48:02
realize that maybe the full draw length is not the right way to
48:06
go and you have to keep it kind of shorter, but that's another
48:10
story. And for me, in the past, for me,
48:13
it was, it was just like for you that it's this tailoring process
48:18
when it come to this final last inches that that was really,
48:25
really scaring me. And but now it doesn't really
48:34
scare me anymore because if it breaks at this stage, you have
48:38
made the mistake much earlier. You know what I mean?
48:42
And so I try to yeah. So I'm not scared of that
48:46
anymore. And I try to focus on on the
48:49
process and making things right from the very beginning then to
48:53
the very end. So I'm not scared anymore.
48:54
Well, I'm. Glad you were able to help me
48:56
through that because it's especially for me on this, on
48:59
this project, knowing I had 14 Bowers and 14 bows to make, I
49:03
wanted to, I wanted to successfully do all 14 of them,
49:07
which fortunately I was able to do.
49:09
But that was like you said, in our case, we were very rushed,
49:14
only had a couple days to make a beautiful bell, but we didn't.
49:17
So yeah. Somehow we did it, yeah.
49:23
Somehow we did it and we had fun doing it.
49:25
It was a good journey, yeah. Right, right.
49:31
Anything else you want to share, Phil?
49:33
Any other experiences or stories?
49:38
And also, can you let the listeners know where they can
49:41
find out more about you, your website or Instagram or social
49:45
media? Yeah, yeah, they can find me now
49:50
only on Instagram because I, I was shutting down nearly all my
49:55
social media in the last year because I had some problems on
50:00
this, on this famous Facebook where someone stole my video
50:06
content and everything and also my the, the stories I wrote.
50:11
So without even mentioning me or giving credits to me.
50:18
So I had some problems with that in the past.
50:21
So I shut down my Facebook everything I, I kept only
50:25
Instagram because it still helps me to stay in contact with the
50:31
Boyers which are not from Austria or from, from Europe.
50:35
So I'm in contact with them from time to time and that helps a
50:40
lot. So I'm there and you can find me
50:42
there. I haven't made a web page for me
50:45
yet because as I said, it's, it's not a business.
50:49
And the people who want to get in touch with me, they can find
50:53
me on, on, on Instagram and they, they can get in touch with
50:57
me. Everyone is welcome to ask
50:59
questions. I'm willing to share my
51:02
knowledge. Yeah, as I said, it's it's not a
51:06
business. That's why I don't have a
51:08
homepage and I have my books to share, my knowledge, my
51:13
Instagram. That's it for now.
51:14
Yeah, well, thank you for sharing your knowledge.
51:18
And I'm, I'm very fortunate to be a recipient of that.
51:23
Being in your workshop with you carving a bow was an incredible
51:26
experience and I'm really excited to have you featured in
51:30
the upcoming book Quiver along with the other 13 bowyers.
51:34
It's going to be, I think, a beautiful book that is a legacy
51:37
for primitive archery. Yes, thank you.
51:40
Thank you very much for for, for the chance to to be in there and
51:46
for the chance to get to know you and your daughter.
51:48
It was, yeah. That's what life is about,
51:52
right? Getting to know new people and
51:54
new experiences and making the best out of it.
51:58
And I really like it. Yeah, and soon, once my workshop
52:03
is finished here, you can come to Costa Rica.
52:06
Stay with me. We'll do some surfing and carve
52:08
some lemon with both. That would be awesome.
52:10
That would be awesome. I would like to surf to surf
52:13
again. So maybe I have to to restart
52:17
everything from for so from the beginning, but you know, but I
52:24
would love to do that. I really would love to do that.
52:28
I'm at the ocean. Yeah, Yeah.
52:30
That's wonderful. Well, thank you, Phil.
52:33
I really appreciate it, appreciate you and the work that
52:35
you're doing and everything that you shared with me and my
52:37
daughter. And I hope we do you an honor
52:40
and our profile of you in the book and I look forward to our
52:45
ongoing relationship. Think I think you will make a
52:48
very good book out of it and all the content will be will be nice
52:53
and great because you, you're the right person to do it right.
52:56
You you try to understand what boyas are thinking and what the
53:00
idea behind bow making is. And so I think you're the right
53:04
guy to do it together with your daughter.
53:07
Thank you, I appreciate that. Cool.
53:09
Thank you. Thanks for listening to Project
53:19
Quiver on Salish Wolf. Follow our journey on Instagram
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at Project Quiver as we seek out the world's most extraordinary
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traditional bow years and join our newsletter at
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projectquiver.com. Our coffee table book, Quiver,
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The Art of Life through Bow Craft, arrives in 2026.
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We are honored to share with you the beauty, history, and magic
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of traditional archery.