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Elements with Sara Cheng · Lean Out Podcast

0:06
Welcome to the lean out podcast.
0:08
I'm your host, Dr.
0:09
Don baker.
0:10
Are you looking for a new approach to finding authentic and sustainable work-life balance?
0:15
You've come to the right.
0:16
Place.
0:16
For inspiration.
0:17
information.
0:18
and a community.
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community.
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of like-minded.
0:20
Professionals.
0:21
Let's get to the show.
0:24
Hello?
0:24
Hello.
0:24
Thanks for being here.
0:26
I am just recently back from leading a retreat of 11 women physicians at a friend's property in Washington state.
0:33
And it was such a fun experience.
0:35
My vision for the future is being able to incorporate retreats into my offerings, particularly on our own property here in Utah.
0:44
But there's a lot of infrastructure that needs to be in place before we can do that.
0:48
So we'll slowly move in that direction.
0:51
And this was my first experience planning a retreat.
0:54
It wasn't super long and it didn't have a very structured schedule.
0:59
It was really just a group of physicians.
1:01
Only a few of whom knew each other prior to the trip.
1:04
And we met for relaxation and community.
1:08
It was just glorious.
1:11
Community is so healing, everyone shared stories and things they've recently learned in their lives.
1:16
And there was so much power in it.
1:19
So I wanted to share it with you because I wanted to reiterate that.
1:23
Well, I'd love to have every single one of you listening.
1:26
Join me.
1:26
Face-to-face outer retreat and my home in the mountains.
1:30
The reason I really love doing this podcast is to grow that sense of community.
1:36
A community of professionals leaning out from the typical paths to do things that light them up and give them their own unique balance.
1:45
If you found these episodes helpful in that sense?
1:48
If they've inspired you in any way, either by causing you to take action or sharing a podcast episode with a friend who needed to hear it, or to just know that you're not alone, then I would love it.
1:59
If you would go and leave a review on iTunes.
2:02
That's by far the place most people listen to the show.
2:06
So the way that you do that is you search the show on the iTunes podcast app or on the iTunes podcast website.
2:16
And you scroll past the recent episodes.
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And down there, you will find a link to write a review.
2:22
Thank you so much in advance for doing that.
2:26
My guest today is Dr.
2:27
Sarah Chang.
2:29
Sarah is an anesthesiologist who has been on a slow journey to work life balance.
2:34
She was entrenched on the treadmill of achievement as an academic anesthesiologist early in her career.
2:40
She then transitioned about a decade ago to private practice work and then slowly worked down to part-time in her private practice job.
2:49
Recently, she started working solely locums and per diem positions.
2:54
She's also a wife, a mom, two adult children and accomplished photographer and an artist.
3:00
In this episode, we discuss Sarah's transition to locums work, which she describes as both slow and all at once.
3:07
We also talk about how she serves as a role model for her adult children and the elements she has found that have led to fulfillment in her work life.
3:16
I hope you enjoy this conversation.
3:20
SC-Dawn: Sarah Chang.
3:20
SC-Dawn: Welcome to the podcast.
3:22
SC-Dawn: Really happy to have you here.
3:24
SC-Dawn: Can you please introduce yourself for the audience and tell us about your work life balance?
3:29
SC-Sara: Yes.
3:30
SC-Sara: Hi, Don.
3:31
SC-Sara: Thanks so much for having me.
3:32
SC-Sara: My name is Sarah Chang and I am, a physician anesthesiologist.
3:37
SC-Sara: I live in Denver, Colorado.
3:39
SC-Sara: I'm married.
3:40
SC-Sara: I've been married for 26 years.
3:41
SC-Sara: I've got two adult children.
3:43
SC-Sara: They're 24 and 21.
3:45
SC-Sara: And I've recently made the transition from being a W2, in a anesthesia practice and, switch to being a traveling locums anesthesiologist,
3:57
SC-Dawn: How has your work hour, uh, load changed with this transition.
4:05
SC-Sara: Hmm.
4:06
SC-Sara: So, yeah, that is an interesting question.
4:08
SC-Sara: I definitely echo other people who have just said that it's lovely to have more control over.
4:15
SC-Sara: The hours that I'm working.
4:16
SC-Sara: In general, it seems that the locum standard is that you're not truly locked into any commitment until within 30 days from when you start.
4:26
SC-Sara: So what I've been trying to do is, I have one locums assignment, which is I kind of.
4:33
SC-Sara: Think of it as the backbone of my, um, earning plan for the next six months.
4:37
SC-Sara: That one is kind of, uh, a full time gig when I'm working.
4:41
SC-Sara: So it is, you know, 10 to 12 hour days.
4:45
SC-Sara: I take call when I choose to, and I do choose to, and I do that one.
4:51
SC-Sara: About seven days a month.
4:54
SC-Sara: And that's the one that I travel away to.
4:57
SC-Sara: And then, I have two other gigs that I do when I'm in town and those are more per diem commitments.
5:05
SC-Dawn: Hmm.
5:06
SC-Dawn: I like that mix.
5:08
SC-Dawn: Have you found that it's been difficult to be away from your husband or your family or home?
5:16
SC-Sara: Yes, I don't love it.
5:19
SC-Sara: I don't love it.
5:19
SC-Sara: I did try initially to do two weeks at a time and I didn't like it.
5:25
SC-Sara: It was too much and I, you know, adore my husband and it was too long to be away from him.
5:30
SC-Sara: He did end up coming out for like, a couple days at a time.
5:34
SC-Sara: So I figured that I discovered the two weeks was too long for me.
5:37
SC-Sara: So this has been a nice balance.
5:41
SC-Sara: The, the week away.
5:43
SC-Sara: I have decided, you know, that my primary goal there is to serve and to help help out the, practice there who, you know, is using locums because they're distressed to a certain degree as many practices are.
5:57
SC-Sara: So, that week I work a lot.
5:59
SC-Sara: I make some good money.
6:01
SC-Sara: I go home, have a meal and basically go to bed.
6:05
SC-Sara: And I feel, you know, at peace with that, that that's, that's, that's That's my role for a week.
6:09
SC-Sara: And then I've kind of earned my time at home for the next three weeks after that.
6:15
SC-Dawn: Yeah, I really resonate with that because our schedules are fairly similar and I have found the same thing doing locum tenens and per diem that I don't want to be away from my family for more than a week at a time.
6:28
SC-Dawn: So I think a lot of people who are considering locums think, well, It's going to be something where I'm just working full time, but I'm working elsewhere in a big three month chunk, and I'm working like five days a week.
6:41
SC-Dawn: And it does not have to be that way.
6:42
SC-Dawn: So you and I are both examples of that.
6:45
SC-Dawn: And I think it's great to point out to people that you can prescribe what you want.
6:50
SC-Dawn: You can say, like, I'm only willing to work a week at a time, and they are in need, so they will entertain that.
6:59
SC-Sara: I, I love that you said that because people, are stuck maybe imagining something that isn't true or doesn't have to be that way.
7:09
SC-Sara: But yes, you know, being away for a week and kind of seeing that time is entirely like, Me time has been really nice.
7:16
SC-Sara: You know, I get in a workout every day.
7:18
SC-Sara: I get in a journaling session every day.
7:20
SC-Sara: I'm getting eight or nine hours of sleep a night.
7:23
SC-Sara: Um, and I'm making good money.
7:25
SC-Sara: And so to kind of compact all those things into one week has been really nice.
7:29
SC-Sara: And then the other three weeks I can do other things.
7:34
SC-Sara: And I've run into that with talking to other people who are, considering making the jump to locums that they are imagining scenarios like, you know, What you were saying, and it doesn't necessarily have to be that way.
7:49
SC-Sara: In fact, this place, you know, is needing and paying well for call coverage on the weekends.
7:54
SC-Sara: And so the commute turned out to be so easy, easier than I thought it would be that there are a couple weekends that I'm just going up for a weekend.
8:02
SC-Sara: Mm
8:03
SC-Dawn: Oh, nice.
8:04
SC-Dawn: That's good.
8:05
SC-Dawn: So can you describe the differences between these different assignments that you're currently juggling?
8:13
SC-Sara: Yeah.
8:14
SC-Sara: Um, great question.
8:15
SC-Sara: I, some people have asked me, are you working more than one locums gig at a time, you know, and how I have structured it.
8:22
SC-Sara: And yes, I have three main ones and they, I have discovered that they all serve a different purpose.
8:29
SC-Sara: and in fact, it's kind of, you know, made me clarify to myself what I really, like to get out of my work life.
8:37
SC-Sara: The regular one that I travel to is about seven days a month.
8:42
SC-Sara: And that one is kind of the backbone of my financial plan.
8:45
SC-Sara: That's my moneymaker.
8:47
SC-Sara: And it feels great no matter what kind of work I do there to make great money.
8:52
SC-Sara: You know, at the end of the day, I feel good no matter how the day is gone.
8:56
SC-Sara: I feel good.
8:58
SC-Sara: And then I've discovered that the other two, I also love to have in the mix because they hit two other points for me, which are one of them, I teach residents And they, I feel really appreciated in that role, you know, so the money is not as good, but I feel appreciated by the core faculty of that residency program.
9:20
SC-Sara: And by the residents, it's very rewarding.
9:22
SC-Sara: And I feel appreciated.
9:24
SC-Sara: So that is also always a good day.
9:26
SC-Sara: I feel good at the end of the day, um.
9:30
SC-Sara: And then the last one, these last two are both like per diem gigs that are in town for me, is a half day at a surgery center.
9:39
SC-Sara: This particular gig, they're like, you can work as much or as little as you want, and they were happy to give me half days.
9:46
SC-Sara: And so that one, the pay is really not that great.
9:49
SC-Sara: But I love it too, because I have, Like total control.
9:53
SC-Sara: You know, I can go home at noon, have a nice, lunch and then a nap.
9:57
SC-Sara: And I love napping.
9:58
SC-Sara: I never got to do it when I was younger.
10:03
SC-Sara: Um,
10:04
SC-Dawn: 'cause those three different positions offer such a vast difference in the benefits, and you've been able to appreciate that and see that, and then take advantage of them on a smaller scale.
10:19
SC-Sara: Yes, yeah, it's fascinating, you know, I don't know if I'll ever find a job that has all three of those elements in one.
10:27
SC-Sara: But it is absolutely clear to me that that's why I want to keep each one in my life.
10:32
SC-Sara: So one is the moneymaker just feeling appreciated through money is a big deal.
10:38
SC-Sara: And then the second one of feeling just, you know, A lot of gratitude and appreciation in the moment on a daily basis.
10:45
SC-Sara: And then the last one of just having a lot of control over my time.
10:49
SC-Dawn: The interesting thing is that enough is going to be different for different people, and you have to figure out your enough, and you only can figure that out with self awareness and trial and error, just experimentation.
11:04
SC-Sara: That's very true.
11:05
SC-Sara: And that is one thing I did want to say about this process is that I've realized that, locums can be such a great way to just get in more iterations of what work life balance do I really want?
11:18
SC-Sara: Like when you commit to a W 2 job, There's so much less flexibility.
11:23
SC-Sara: You can't try on a bunch of different, schedules and see what feels good in the same way that you can with locums, like with locums, you can be like this week, I'm going to structure it this way and see how it feels, and then the next month I can structure it a different way and see how on a month to month basis, how a certain kind of schedule feels.
11:44
SC-Sara: And I have really found that that's informed me in a way that a longer commitment couldn't what, what I love about work and what, what feels good on a weekly and a monthly basis.
11:58
SC-Dawn: Yeah, very good point.
12:01
SC-Dawn: Well, let's step back for a moment.
12:02
SC-Dawn: Why did you decide to make this change?
12:05
SC-Dawn: Was there any particular event or thing in your life that made you say, you know, I am going to get out of this W2 gig and go to locums only?
12:16
SC-Sara: The process for me um, Could be described as slowly and then all at once, I definitely was, kind of addicted to the praise treadmill or whatever they call it that comes with academic medicine for a long time.
12:34
SC-Sara: I mean, I went to, you know, a prestigious college.
12:35
SC-Sara: I did an MD PhD.
12:39
SC-Sara: And I, expected of myself and was expected to be a high functioning, academic anesthesiologist juggling grants and teaching and clinical work.
12:51
SC-Sara: And that's what I expected of myself for a long time.
12:53
SC-Sara: When I was a fellow, I, Applied for a a million dollar grant, um, on the first try, and then a couple of things started falling apart in my department.
13:07
SC-Sara: And I, you know, I could have handled it better.
13:10
SC-Sara: They could have handled it better.
13:11
SC-Sara: So the story isn't about me being mistreated necessarily, but a lot of things started to fall apart.
13:17
SC-Sara: And one thing I realized the moment, I started feeling, unhappy with how people were, how things were going was that I was like, I don't actually want this that badly.
13:27
SC-Sara: I could tell the story all, all these different ways.
13:30
SC-Sara: But what I think the, what I've decided the narrative is for me is that it's not that I was necessarily just mistreated and I got shoved out, but I was like, I don't want.
13:42
SC-Sara: This thing that badly, that I would kind of push through and pay my dues in all these ways.
13:50
SC-Sara: If I was truthful to myself, I would say that I misled all these people by pretending to be the person who wanted these things.
13:58
SC-Sara: You know, I think it would have been better for all of us if I had realized earlier, I don't want this that badly.
14:05
SC-Sara: Laughter.
14:06
SC-Dawn: I love that you reframed it that way and that you were able to see it in that light because I have had friends, colleagues, coaching clients who get into a situation where something negative happens against their expectations, and it's all about Either, you know, that they're the victim, or the system is bad, um, I'm being discriminated against, or something like that.
14:30
SC-Dawn: But, being able to look at, like, what is my hand in this situation?
14:35
SC-Dawn: Am I complicit in what happened?
14:37
SC-Dawn: Do I actually care about this as much as I'm acting like I care?
14:42
SC-Dawn: And do I really want to fight?
14:45
SC-Dawn: about this or do I want to pivot into something else?
14:48
SC-Dawn: Is this a sign that shows that I should be doing something different?
14:52
SC-Sara: Yes, yes, absolutely.
14:54
SC-Sara: And I mean, I really haven't spoken about it very much until now.
14:57
SC-Sara: Certainly not in a public forum until now, because I was really struggling with what actually happened.
15:03
SC-Sara: Was I actually a victim?
15:04
SC-Sara: I don't, that doesn't feel good to me, you know, to put it that way.
15:08
SC-Sara: And so, yeah, I have settled on this, that, a bunch of things came together.
15:13
SC-Sara: I, you know, decided I didn't want that path so badly and I stepped away and it was at the point.
15:20
SC-Sara: A really big deal to give up a grant to walk away from that academic path.
15:26
SC-Sara: Uh, so that was 10 years ago and I did go through some therapy to kind of get there.
15:33
SC-Sara: Get to this understanding of that.
15:35
SC-Sara: Um, and then I joined a private practice.
15:37
SC-Sara: And, you know, loved my work and was so proud of the work that we did in private practice too.
15:43
SC-Sara: I worked in a high acuity private hospital and we did a lot of big cases.
15:47
SC-Sara: I did spend two years as chief and then, started to feel a couple things.
15:53
SC-Sara: One that, I've kind of like achieved all the things that I feel like I need to achieve in private practice.
15:59
SC-Sara: My kids.
16:01
SC-Sara: Finished college.
16:03
SC-Sara: So that gave me kind of the freedom to travel and to maybe have a different lifestyle.
16:09
SC-Sara: And then the third thing that also happened at the same time was that I started developing some kind of bizarre chronic pain, issue that, was hard to deal with, and really necessitated that I work less.
16:24
SC-Sara: So I did go part time.
16:26
SC-Sara: As a W 2 employee for a while, that helped.
16:29
SC-Sara: I think all of those things happening at the same time, plus the chronic pain was the thing that started me thinking, I need more control over my schedule.
16:39
SC-Sara: And it was, I think it was my body kind of crying out a little bit to just say like, listen, we need to work less and you're not listening to me.
16:49
SC-Sara: I need to speak to you in the only way I know how.
16:53
SC-Dawn: Can see now why you said it happens slowly and then all at once because the slow part of the story is this initial focus on academics, switching to a private practice, and then slowly peeling back on the hours that you worked there, but then needing more control over your schedule and going to locum tenens.
17:13
SC-Dawn: And I know that you have many questions.
17:17
SC-Dawn: interests outside of clinical medicine and that you have done photography for a long time and real estate investment.
17:25
SC-Dawn: So can you talk about the things that you do in your non work time and that you're interested in and that give you joy?
17:33
SC-Sara: Sure.
17:34
SC-Sara: Yeah, I'd love to.
17:35
SC-Sara: As the kids got bigger, I made it a point to myself to make sure that I always had time to pursue my own interests and my own passions.
17:42
SC-Sara: One, to just be a good example to them.
17:44
SC-Sara: I mean, I never believed in this, like being this kind of like martyr mother where like all my free time and all my interests were kind of wrapped up in the kids because, I don't want them to feel like my.
17:55
SC-Sara: My happiness is tied up in what they're doing.
17:58
SC-Sara: First of all, and yeah, and I feel like I, you know, deserve to have my own interest.
18:02
SC-Sara: So, I think I have kind of known for that for having a lot of interest outside of work, like you mentioned.
18:07
SC-Sara: So I did have a photography business for about a decade.
18:11
SC-Sara: Which, I loved, just great to have a creative outlet.
18:14
SC-Sara: And I felt like it had a lot of actually, parallels to anesthesiology done in that, you know, you have to have the technical part down cold, um, But you really only share your technical concerns with somebody that's gonna help the situation.
18:29
SC-Sara: Otherwise, it's all in the background, right?
18:31
SC-Sara: Nobody knows what you're doing, um, behind the camera.
18:34
SC-Sara: And, so you have to have the technical part down cold, but it is the people skills and the connection that makes it fun.
18:42
SC-Sara: successful.
18:43
SC-Sara: If someone trusts you, they're going to have a great experience, either on the OR table or in front of the lens.
18:50
SC-Sara: They're going to have a great experience if they trust you.
18:53
SC-Sara: And if you make them feel like you are caring for them, they're going to have a great experience.
18:57
SC-Sara: And so I really love to the parallels there.
19:00
SC-Sara: Um,
19:02
SC-Dawn: definitely agree with you about those similarities between anesthesia and photography.
19:08
SC-Sara: so photography was one, and then I'm kind of like, a little artsy in general.
19:12
SC-Sara: I do a lot of painting and.
19:14
SC-Sara: Drawing and digital, digital and otherwise right now I'm kind of enjoying being a beginner in oil painting.
19:22
SC-Sara: So I do that.
19:23
SC-Sara: And then, yes, in terms of, outside of.
19:26
SC-Sara: Medicine, interests.
19:28
SC-Sara: My husband and I also have a small, portfolio of rental properties as well.
19:32
SC-Sara: We've been, we were up to 12 doors at one point and now we have seven that we run as short term rentals.
19:39
SC-Dawn: So, has there been any period of uncertainty, either financial or otherwise, that you've had to weather with this change?
19:49
SC-Sara: Uh, yes, I would say that right now, you know, I only made the switch to locums back in May and it's September now, so it is, a new season for us and, it is a lot of change because my husband is kind of newly semi retired.
20:04
SC-Sara: He decided to step away from his W 2 job as well.
20:07
SC-Sara: He's doing a little consulting, but he's not employed anymore.
20:12
SC-Sara: And so it is a time of uncertainty for us as far as the income being fluctuating from month to month a little bit.
20:19
SC-Sara: And then, also addressing the, the big questions of healthcare insurance and, retirement savings.
20:27
SC-Sara: You know, without a company doing a match for us and things like that.
20:31
SC-Sara: So, yeah, we are addressing all those things.
20:33
SC-Sara: And those are real concerns.
20:35
SC-Sara: And those are a lot of the big concerns that I hear people coming to me with questions about.
20:41
SC-Sara: I'm sure you have.
20:43
SC-Dawn: Yes,
20:44
SC-Sara: those two, um, and I will just say that we're in the midst of addressing them.
20:49
SC-Sara: Doing a lot of research, talking to people, talking to our CPA, and it makes me a little nervous, but I do feel overall like they're just addressable concerns, right?
20:59
SC-Sara: Like, for example, the health, the health care issue, like, yes, we're going to end up paying and it is going to be, it's going to feel expensive for sure.
21:09
SC-Sara: It's going to feel like, oh man, like.
21:11
SC-Sara: Whatever it is twice as much as we were paying before.
21:14
SC-Sara: But, we can afford it when people get anxious about it, I'm like, yeah, but can you afford it?
21:23
SC-Dawn: right.
21:23
SC-Dawn: It's just a matter of reallocation and changing your mindset around it because originally someone was subsidizing it and now you're going to be responsible for that same amount.
21:34
SC-Dawn: They were charging whoever the insurance company is on their side that same amount and it is, it's part of the market.
21:43
SC-Dawn: That's how it goes.
21:44
SC-Dawn: And I think your point that.
21:48
SC-Dawn: This is a valid concern and people are concerned about it.
21:51
SC-Dawn: It's it's true except that the that doesn't mean that it should keep you from making the changes.
21:58
SC-Sara: Yes, exactly.
22:00
SC-Sara: Yeah.
22:00
SC-Sara: I mean, it may be a thousand dollars, let's say, you know, but are you going to allow a thousand dollars a month to keep you in a situation where you're.
22:09
SC-Sara: miserable?
22:11
SC-Sara: No, like you absolutely shouldn't, especially, you're going to be able to balance that thousand dollars out with earning potential in either ways.
22:21
SC-Sara: I mean, I really see people getting hung up on this one thing about, let's just call it that thousand dollars on health care.
22:29
SC-Sara: Like you shouldn't, They, they keep thinking, I just, it's going to be so painful.
22:33
SC-Sara: I shouldn't have to pay that much more to keep my health insurance.
22:38
SC-Sara: And I'm like, yeah, but you are miserable.
22:41
SC-Sara: You need to get over that.
22:44
SC-Dawn: And then with the taxes and retirement, it's the same thing.
22:48
SC-Dawn: It's just that instead of someone doing it for you, you actually have to take responsibility to do it yourself, and you need to set up a schedule, and you need to talk with a financial person, um, as opposed to just kind of letting it happen.
23:02
SC-Sara: Yes.
23:02
SC-Sara: Yep.
23:03
SC-Sara: And all that can be daunting, but it's doable too, right?
23:07
SC-Sara: You hire good help and they'll help you structure it.
23:12
SC-Sara: We are smart, hardworking people, right?
23:14
SC-Dawn: Right.
23:15
SC-Dawn: We can learn these things.
23:16
SC-Dawn: Yeah, exactly.
23:18
SC-Dawn: Has it been hard, the identity change for you and your husband have there been any issues with that change in feeling like you're in your profession all in versus part time or, you know, on a semi retirement path?
23:33
SC-Sara: I think in general we're enjoying it.
23:36
SC-Sara: The freedom of feeling like, you know what?
23:38
SC-Sara: I am done competing or striving or waiting to, to, Be successful.
23:49
SC-Sara: I think for the most part that that's been a relief to step away from that mindset.
23:54
SC-Sara: You know, I really do feel like, for the most part, like, that I'm, you know, I'm 51 and that, what a wonderful gift and sense of freedom to be done.
24:05
SC-Sara: With that, I'm only proud of what I've done until now and anything forward is like, it's kind of icing on the cake, you know, it's, it's enjoyment, it's pleasure, it's, satisfaction, but it's no longer striving to finally get somewhere.
24:24
SC-Sara: So for the most part, it's been a lot of good feelings.
24:29
SC-Sara: I, perhaps the thing that I do miss, uh, in terms of locums is, you know, being known, being known.
24:37
SC-Sara: I mean, after being in a practice for a decade, it's a good feeling to walk into a room and the surgeon's like, Oh, thank goodness it's Sarah, it's going to be okay.
24:46
SC-Sara: Or being called to a situation and being like, Sarah, we need you here.
24:50
SC-Sara: Those are good feelings to be known and to be trusted.
24:53
SC-Sara: And that, that does disappear for a while in your locum, you know, you are, they're grateful that you're there, but you're not a trusted known entity, they're grateful that you're there to help do all the little ditzel cases, and occasionally you might do a big case, but.
25:08
SC-Sara: It's not the same thing.
25:10
SC-Sara: And so it's a different satisfaction to be like, okay, I'm here to be reliable and to be efficient, and to be easy to work with, but I'm not here to be, you know, Dr.
25:21
SC-Sara: Shang chief of anesthesia, like, I, I'm not that person when I'm traveling and I would say, like, yeah, I do kind of miss that.
25:30
SC-Sara: Like, you know, the second or third time I work with a surgeon and they're like, Oh, yeah.
25:36
SC-Sara: I remember you.
25:36
SC-Sara: You were good.
25:37
SC-Sara: Okay.
25:37
SC-Sara: That's good.
25:38
SC-Sara: Starting to make that transition with people always feels good.
25:42
SC-Sara: and it, is a path towards like making those relationships again.
25:47
SC-Sara: But I think if, if I were to say what, what is the, the hard part of kind of identity switch, it would be that it would be, just not being that known trusted entity.
25:57
SC-Sara: Yeah.
26:00
SC-Dawn: think if you do a long term locums assignment that's regular, you're doing, over time, you do get a little bit of that because the surgeons will start to recognize you.
26:11
SC-Dawn: I've noticed that because I have a regular per diem job that I go to every month.
26:16
SC-Dawn: And so people do remember you and you'll have those days that are one offs and they're skeptical and they're like, Ooh, is this person going to know what they're doing?
26:24
SC-Dawn: But then they see you again and they're like, Oh yeah.
26:27
SC-Dawn: All right.
26:27
SC-Dawn: You were good.
26:28
SC-Dawn: Uh, and I've said before that a locum's It has kind of two types and you have to show which type you are, one of them is a type that's choosing to do locums and the other one is the type that has to do locums because they can't really keep that regular job in a practice for some reason.
26:45
SC-Dawn: They have interpersonal problems or they have technical problems or something like that.
26:49
SC-Dawn: And so you show which one you are, but it does take time.
26:52
SC-Dawn: And you're right that you have a different kind of a situation where you gain your.
26:58
SC-Dawn: appreciation from people in a different way than when you're a regular W 2 employee.
27:03
SC-Sara: yes, yes.
27:04
SC-Sara: Oh, I love, I love that.
27:06
SC-Sara: The two types, which one are you?
27:09
SC-Sara: I got to remember that.
27:10
SC-Sara: I think you're, you're totally right.
27:12
SC-Dawn: Yeah.
27:12
SC-Dawn: Yeah.
27:13
SC-Dawn: Um, you know, one thing I want to ask you having older kids, because I have a young child and I'm in this kind of a situation and I'm wondering if you've noticed anything with your choices in work life balance that has rubbed off on your children's choices and their trajectories now toward different careers as they're launching into adulthood.
27:34
SC-Sara: Oh, I love that question.
27:37
SC-Sara: You know, I do, I do like to think that in general that, um, my kids kind of being the kind of people who, put themselves out there and seek out experiences and seek out challenges.
27:49
SC-Sara: Like, I like to think that my husband and I have instilled that in them, for sure.
27:54
SC-Sara: Um, One recent example, that would answer your question is, you know, my daughter, last year she was 23 and there was something about, she was offered an internship and, it wasn't going to fit in to some of the other things that she wanted to do.
28:13
SC-Sara: And she at first was scared to ask for what she wanted, which was a later start date and a slightly different structuring of the offer.
28:20
SC-Sara: And I said, You gotta ask, because the answer's always no, unless you ask, which is what my father always taught me.
28:29
SC-Sara: And she did, and the amazing thing was that she was scared too, but then her future employer said, but actually, you know, it actually works with our, Needs in this way as well.
28:39
SC-Sara: And so they ended up having like even better arrangement for both of them And she texted me and she goes mom, you know It's what you've always taught me dial up what you want dial down what you don't want and eventually, I'm moving closer and closer to what I want and I was so proud of her But I was also so proud of myself because I was like that is what I've been teaching you Dial up the pieces that you want and dial down the pieces that you don't want, you can't like just suddenly have your dream life, but you got to work towards it.
29:11
SC-Dawn: I love that story.
29:12
SC-Dawn: It's so good.
29:14
SC-Dawn: Well, I'm wondering if you, uh, as we wrap up here have, Any sort of advice for women that are on the treadmill of achievement or feeling burnt out and overwhelmed about making a change?
29:29
SC-Sara: I mean, number one, for anybody in that position, I would just offer, you know, some real, empathy for your position because It, this is almost going to bring tears to my eyes to say that, but it, it hurts to be in that position.
29:46
SC-Sara: You know, being burned out, like, it's not just like, oh, I'm so tired.
29:50
SC-Sara: It's painful, right?
29:53
SC-Sara: Like, it's, it's really, emotionally and psychologically very painful to be, truly burned out or approaching that.
30:01
SC-Sara: And it's a very uncomfortable position to be in.
30:03
SC-Sara: And so I just, you know, want to offer, like, really, like, real empathy for someone in that position too.
30:09
SC-Sara: It's no small thing.
30:11
SC-Dawn: Yeah.
30:13
SC-Sara: I would then offer just encouragement, like, if you are in that position, you are like a really smart, really strong, really hardworking person.
30:22
SC-Sara: And, if you apply the kind of, problem solving skills that you do to your patients, to your own situation, I am sure that you could come up with, you know, if you were writing a list of, like, you know, 20, like, steps in a plan for somebody else.
30:40
SC-Sara: You could do it.
30:42
SC-Sara: So do it for yourself, Some of them will be symptomatic, right?
30:46
SC-Sara: Symptom management and some of them will be like disease modifying like plans in the long term.
30:50
SC-Sara: Like, how are you going to make this better?
30:52
SC-Sara: You, you, you can do both those things.
30:54
SC-Sara: Um, uh, so I would say that and there's so much help now that just wasn't available.
31:02
SC-Sara: Free help, like your podcast, your awesome podcast and other people's podcasts by coaches, other coaches as well, financial, advice, break down all the things that you kind of need to start moving in the right direction.
31:18
SC-Sara: And the, just to make small steps in that direction, it might be, it might be first, like getting some help at home so that you can have a little time to think about where you're going to do next with your career.
31:31
SC-Sara: But just make the next right step and, talk to sympathetic people.
31:36
SC-Sara: Don't talk to unsympathetic people, don't you think?
31:41
SC-Dawn: Yeah, absolutely.
31:43
SC-Dawn: I love your ideas of empathy and encouragement for sure.
31:47
SC-Dawn: And then taking it step by step is very important.
31:51
SC-Dawn: You can't undo burnout.
31:53
SC-Dawn: You in a day and to make a transition to live a better work life balance, you need to go step by step and take it slow.
32:04
SC-Dawn: Well, Sarah, I really enjoyed talking with you today.
32:08
SC-Dawn: Is there any place that if people wanted to get in touch with you, they should go?
32:14
SC-Sara: They can always email me.
32:15
SC-Sara: It's Sarah Chang MD.
32:17
SC-Sara: So S A R A C H E N G M D at gmail.
32:21
SC-Sara: com.
32:21
SC-Sara: That would probably be the best way.
32:23
SC-Sara: I do have an Instagram if anybody wants to follow me there.
32:27
SC-Sara: It's Sarah Chang rocks.
32:28
SC-Sara: One word
32:30
SC-Dawn: Great.
32:30
SC-Dawn: Well, thanks a lot for coming on and talking with me today.
32:34
SC-Sara: Thank you so much for having me.
32:35
SC-Sara: I really appreciated it.
32:40
Sarah is in a stage of her career where she's in tune with the elements that make her work-life fulfilling.
32:46
Here are my takeaways from our conversation.
32:49
Number one, you have permission to reframe your past and write your own narrative.
32:54
Sarah touched on a difficult time in the early part of her career, and she mentioned that.
32:58
Her current narrative is that she didn't want the publisher perish life of an academic physician badly enough.
33:06
Obviously, there's more of a story behind that time, but she demonstrates that you have the ability to reinterpret your past in a way that gives you meaning.
33:15
Jordan Grumman who will be a future guest on the podcast.
33:20
Is the author of the new book, the purpose code, which is coming out this winter.
33:23
And in that book, he says that meaning is the process of connecting ideas to make sense of your past.
33:31
So why is this a takeaway for me in this episode?
33:35
Because I have seen people who focus on victim hood.
33:38
On whatever circumstances happening to them negative in their career and how they're screwed by it.
33:45
Instead, they could be turning it around and figuring out what they can learn from it.
33:50
Sarah did this and transcended her previously held picture of what her career was supposed to look like.
33:56
And then she never looked back.
33:58
Number two.
34:00
Pursuing your outside passions will not only contribute to your mental and physical wellness.
34:06
It can also serve as a way for you to be a role model for your loved ones.
34:12
Sarah talked in the podcast about how she's affected the way her kids view work.
34:17
And she's especially proud of teaching an important concept to her daughter, which is dial up what you want in your life and dial down what you don't want.
34:26
And this lesson leads me to my last takeaway.
34:30
Number three.
34:31
Spend some time considering the elements you need for your work to be interesting, sustainable and fulfilling.
34:38
Why do you work?
34:40
I asked a client this the other day.
34:42
It's not only for income.
34:44
Are you benefiting in other ways as well?
34:47
When you go to work?
34:49
For Sarah, now that she's had the ability to experience different types of jobs in her field through doing locum tenens work, she knows that her elements are number one.
34:58
Good pay.
35:00
Number two teaching the next generation and the appreciation she gets from the trainees.
35:05
She teaches.
35:06
And number three.
35:07
Having good schedule control like she does when she goes and works at an ambulatory surgery center.
35:13
I'll bet you can guess my parting question for you today.
35:17
It is what are your elements for a fulfilling work life?
35:23
Thanks for listening to the lean out podcast.
35:26
If you find these conversations inspiring and useful, please forward them to a friend and also leave a review on iTunes or Spotify so that other people can find them easier.
35:38
If you want to get in touch with me, you can find me at my website, practice balanced.com, where you can subscribe to my newsletter and get updates regularly about new podcast episodes, blog posts, speaking, engagements, and coaching services.
35:55
You can also support my work by buying my book, lean out a professional woman's guide to finding authentic work-life balance for yourself, a friend, family member, or coworker.
36:07
Have a great day and we'll see you next time