Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 15 July

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The Bolt Report | 15 July · The Bolt Report

0:08
Speaker 1: This is the report tonight police arrest an alleged Kingpinn
0:15
Speaker 1: behind some of the wild violence in Melbourne, and I
0:18
Speaker 1: think this is another warning of an immigration program that's
0:22
Speaker 1: been importing trouble. Plus Donald Trump backs off as wild
0:26
Speaker 1: planned to change to where four ships used in the
0:30
Speaker 1: Strait upormors that pay him twenty percent of their value.
0:34
Speaker 1: And plenty more coming up, including a new report asking
0:36
Speaker 1: who exactly is behind so many of the anti Israel
0:39
Speaker 1: protests disturbing findings. But first, I've heard praise today for
0:46
Speaker 1: Anthony Abanez's big speech and an artificial intelligence. The speech
0:49
Speaker 1: to tell us that the Albanizi government has run on
0:52
Speaker 1: top of this is going to encourage AI, But listening
0:56
Speaker 1: to it, it was actually more about how it's going
0:59
Speaker 1: to control it, and I think will most strangle it.
1:02
Speaker 2: This is our time to decide what AI looks like
1:07
Speaker 2: here in Australia. The choice that we have is how
1:12
Speaker 2: how we apply our enduring values of fairness and opportunity
1:17
Speaker 2: to make this technology work for us, for workers and communities,
1:23
Speaker 2: for our economy and our environment, for our creative industries
1:28
Speaker 2: and media.
1:31
Speaker 1: Now fine, it's true, AI is going to be huge
1:33
Speaker 1: it's going to force governments to react to cetera et cetera.
1:35
Speaker 1: It's going to revolutionize how we study and how we work.
1:39
Speaker 1: Just for a start, jobs will be created and jobs
1:43
Speaker 1: will be destroyed. And Albinizi obviously gave the speech knowing
1:47
Speaker 1: that he's going to be facing ANTSI unions at Labour's
1:50
Speaker 1: national conference in Atlaie the weekend after next. Now for us,
1:54
Speaker 1: the news business, of course is also invested interest. We
1:58
Speaker 1: want to be paid for our data that these AIS
2:00
Speaker 1: centers exploit. And alben easy today God in sweet with
2:03
Speaker 1: us by promising to make the tech giants pay. So
2:08
Speaker 1: it's sure going to help if we do get data
2:10
Speaker 1: centers built here, so that our government at least has
2:14
Speaker 1: a finger on the scale. But this is where I
2:18
Speaker 1: started to think, listening to the Prime minister, Wait a minute,
2:23
Speaker 1: what are you really up to Apart from just creating
2:25
Speaker 1: another government bureaucracy.
2:28
Speaker 2: Affective Today I am establishing the Office of AI in
2:32
Speaker 2: my own department of.
2:34
Speaker 3: The Prime Minister of Cana.
2:35
Speaker 4: His first year reaction is always to increase the bureaucracy
2:41
Speaker 4: in Cambra.
2:43
Speaker 5: And then you know, I.
2:44
Speaker 1: Thought, what is this Albany to today? Dressing up his
2:47
Speaker 1: big plan as a kind of AI medicare, wrapping it
2:51
Speaker 1: up with labor mythology, and contrasting that by totally misrepresenting
2:56
Speaker 1: a half quote from that heartless Margaret Thatcher.
3:00
Speaker 2: While other nations were being remade by a philosophy which
3:03
Speaker 2: held there is no such thing as society, Australia was
3:09
Speaker 2: building what has become one of the truest expressions of
3:12
Speaker 2: our society and the duty that we owe to each
3:16
Speaker 2: other as members of it. I speak, of course of medicare.
3:22
Speaker 1: This is like medicare, get off it and making me
3:26
Speaker 1: even more skeptical as an Albanezi boast, A boast that
3:30
Speaker 1: to me was actually a warning about how bad the
3:33
Speaker 1: government could be in trying to control technology.
3:37
Speaker 2: When I announced our government will be implementing a social
3:40
Speaker 2: media band for Australians under the age of sixteen, that
3:44
Speaker 2: too was seen as radical. It is proof of what
3:48
Speaker 2: Australia can do when we back ourselves.
3:53
Speaker 1: In fact, as we've learned Alberaniz, a so called ban
3:55
Speaker 1: and social media for children hasn't worked well at all.
3:58
Speaker 1: Most kids have already figured out out how to get
4:00
Speaker 1: around it. But it was when we got to this
4:03
Speaker 1: bit of Albinizi's speech that the red lights really started
4:06
Speaker 1: a flash.
4:08
Speaker 2: We built for the best by building for ourselves. That
4:13
Speaker 2: thread runs through a national story as innovators and inventors
4:19
Speaker 2: in science and research, in agriculture and energy.
4:25
Speaker 1: In fact, our recent history is virtually the opposite. For one,
4:29
Speaker 1: we have actually de industrialized. Manufacturing's almost gone. We can
4:35
Speaker 1: dream up a few scientific breakthroughs. What we do great,
4:38
Speaker 1: but we are pretty bad at then creating an industry
4:40
Speaker 1: around them. For one, you know, there's too much government
4:44
Speaker 1: red tape, there's too many taxes. You know the whole story.
4:46
Speaker 1: And like I said, that is a big warning to us.
4:49
Speaker 1: Can we actually trust this government, almost any Australian government,
4:53
Speaker 1: to put us near the edge of the AI revolution
4:58
Speaker 1: or will it leave us again struggling to catch up
5:00
Speaker 1: with countries far more open to business. Because you listen
5:04
Speaker 1: to this, this is the real big catch and albin
5:09
Speaker 1: easy speech.
5:09
Speaker 2: Today, we'll create a legal obligation for the next generation
5:14
Speaker 2: of large scale data centers to underwrite new power supply,
5:19
Speaker 2: to pay their full share of grid connection so no
5:22
Speaker 2: costs are passed on to homes or businesses, and to
5:26
Speaker 2: put at least as much energy into our grid as
5:30
Speaker 2: they take out of it to build new renewable generation
5:34
Speaker 2: and firming to strengthen our national energy resilience and ensure
5:40
Speaker 2: that data centers do not increase power prices for Australians.
5:46
Speaker 1: Make them build more renewable energy. These data centers must
5:52
Speaker 1: use unreliable and expensive wind and solar power with firming
5:57
Speaker 1: pay for that too, and no doubt back up, why
6:01
Speaker 1: not nuclear power instead, Because in the US, the big
6:05
Speaker 1: tech giants there have all signed deals through power centers
6:09
Speaker 1: with nuclear reactors, and not just Meta but also Amazon
6:14
Speaker 1: and Google and Microsoft which is even reopening the three
6:18
Speaker 1: Mile Island reactor. And the reason zero simple. Just one
6:25
Speaker 1: very big data center can need as much as five
6:28
Speaker 1: hundred megawats of electricity, which is about well it's in
6:32
Speaker 1: fact more electricity, more than all of Hobart typically users.
6:38
Speaker 1: So we are going to need obviously massive, massive amounts
6:43
Speaker 1: of extra electricity already running short, and it must be
6:46
Speaker 1: from reliable sources. These statu centers can't afford to have
6:50
Speaker 1: a goal from the dark or power down on a
6:54
Speaker 1: windless day like you get with solar a wind power.
6:57
Speaker 1: And of course if it's zero missions, then it is
6:59
Speaker 1: even better company's green cred and that holds that all that,
7:04
Speaker 1: all of that adds up to nuclear power. That is
7:09
Speaker 1: just like a top Google executive working on AI projects
7:13
Speaker 1: said in January, we.
7:15
Speaker 6: Are currently building the engine of the twenty first century,
7:20
Speaker 6: which is artificial intelligence. But as everyone in this room knows,
7:25
Speaker 6: an engine is pretty much useless without fuel. We have
7:28
Speaker 6: crunched the numbers and we have realized that nuclear energy
7:33
Speaker 6: is not just an option, it is an essential, non
7:37
Speaker 6: negotiable component.
7:41
Speaker 1: Of course, So why does Anthony alban Easy say no
7:47
Speaker 1: to nuclear when his government should be begging for investment here,
7:52
Speaker 1: doing everything to make it payoff for these AI companies,
7:56
Speaker 1: And here the government's caught. Alban Easy has banned keeps
8:02
Speaker 1: a ban on nuclear power and has justified this ban
8:07
Speaker 1: by claiming, well, nuclear power makes no economic sense. But
8:11
Speaker 1: surely that's a question the big tech June should answer
8:15
Speaker 1: for themselves. If they reckon nuclear power makes sense for them,
8:18
Speaker 1: as it does in the US, why not it's on
8:22
Speaker 1: them to finance and build these reactors. Why can't they
8:25
Speaker 1: choose them? And this really is just the latest example
8:31
Speaker 1: of Albanese's anti nuclear policy making zero sense. In fact,
8:36
Speaker 1: just last week, Albaniz, you cut a deal with India's
8:39
Speaker 1: Prime minister to sell India our uranium for nuclear power.
8:43
Speaker 1: So India can use Australian uranium but Australians can't. Go figure,
8:51
Speaker 1: and I say, surely now enough with this last century
8:56
Speaker 1: anti nuclear superstition. Are now trying to power the technological
9:02
Speaker 1: revolution of the twenty first century and reason must once
9:07
Speaker 1: more be our guide. Joining me is top tech guru
9:15
Speaker 1: Trevor Long is the technology commentator, as you knows, host
9:19
Speaker 1: of the FtM Saint and the one expert in Australia
9:23
Speaker 1: guarantee to make this AI stuff both understandable and interesting. Trevor,
9:28
Speaker 1: big brief for you. They're a big rap. But look
9:31
Speaker 1: a big announcement from the Prime minister. You know he's
9:35
Speaker 1: going to shape AI in Australia. What do you make
9:38
Speaker 1: of this plan? Can it succeed?
9:41
Speaker 7: Honestly, going into this, Andrew, I thought it was going
9:44
Speaker 7: to be a nothing speech. But I do like the
9:46
Speaker 7: fact that he set targets that will appease the community
9:50
Speaker 7: when it comes to electricity and water for these big
9:53
Speaker 7: data centers. I do like the fact that it does
9:56
Speaker 7: make it enticing for big tech companies. To have a
9:59
Speaker 7: conversation here. And while I'm not a fan of bureaucracy,
10:02
Speaker 7: at least they're all going to know who to call.
10:04
Speaker 7: With an office looking after these things. The question is
10:08
Speaker 7: what does it really add to AI in Australia and
10:12
Speaker 7: what does it add to a tech company to choose Australia.
10:15
Speaker 7: You know, there's no real negative because they haven't got
10:18
Speaker 7: to pay more to be here. They've got to pay
10:20
Speaker 7: those big costs when they go to America or anywhere else.
10:22
Speaker 7: I think what we should be doing is pushing the
10:25
Speaker 7: fact that we're a bit unique and we do have
10:27
Speaker 7: a bit of sovereignty.
10:28
Speaker 5: So I just hope that the behind the scenes deals the.
10:32
Speaker 7: AI Office does enables strong relationships with these tech companies
10:36
Speaker 7: for people like our Department of Defense and Security and
10:40
Speaker 7: things like those, I think there's some benefit here.
10:43
Speaker 5: And obviously on the copyright side of things.
10:45
Speaker 7: You know, Australian copyright laws are fantastic and we want
10:48
Speaker 7: to have those conversations that protect you know, Australian creators.
10:52
Speaker 7: But we yet to see anyone pay up, whether it's
10:55
Speaker 7: to the media or to creators.
10:57
Speaker 5: That's the next big hurdle.
11:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look, my bosses are going to kill me.
11:03
Speaker 1: But if we don't get a copyright deal out of this,
11:07
Speaker 1: and that's if that's the ticket to getting the AI
11:10
Speaker 1: revolution right here, then I'm going to just shrug my
11:13
Speaker 1: shoulders at that. But you're right, as I said at
11:16
Speaker 1: the top, it's a revolution. There's plenty of work that
11:19
Speaker 1: the government's going to get involved in. My concern is
11:23
Speaker 1: with the powering of this stuff and the bureaucracy. But
11:28
Speaker 1: one funk call will be good. How is AI going
11:31
Speaker 1: to change us for the better?
11:35
Speaker 7: Look, I think this is a hugely broad conversation that
11:38
Speaker 7: and again it's where government should be should be talking.
11:40
Speaker 7: The benefits of AI could potentially be to make our
11:44
Speaker 7: entire workforce more efficient, and that doesn't mean we should
11:47
Speaker 7: be working harder.
11:48
Speaker 5: But I don't know, throw out a policy.
11:50
Speaker 7: Like we shouldn't we be working towards a four day
11:52
Speaker 7: week in ten years from now, which would in turn
11:55
Speaker 7: enable more commerce on that extra day off, more people shopping,
11:59
Speaker 7: more people traveling, more people going out.
12:02
Speaker 5: I don't know. I feel like we should look at
12:03
Speaker 5: the efficiencies that.
12:04
Speaker 7: Come from AI in business, and they are absolutely certain,
12:07
Speaker 7: there's no doubt that most jobs can be made more
12:10
Speaker 7: efficient through even a small use of AI, and those
12:13
Speaker 7: are the things that we should be enabling. What I
12:15
Speaker 7: would have liked to see the Prime Minister now today
12:17
Speaker 7: is help for Australian businesses to embrace AI, because if
12:22
Speaker 7: we're truly going to be a leader in AI, we don't.
12:25
Speaker 5: Just want data centers.
12:26
Speaker 7: We want businesses that are using AI to make them
12:29
Speaker 7: better and more profitable and more efficient.
12:34
Speaker 1: That is a brilliant suggestion, Trevor, because to be honest,
12:38
Speaker 1: some bit of a ladder. There's only recently that I've
12:40
Speaker 1: started to use AI too for my research and I
12:42
Speaker 1: found it's cutting so much time getting to the facts.
12:46
Speaker 1: They do a search in set of search terms, you
12:49
Speaker 1: just say, is there any evidence of this in this bang?
12:51
Speaker 1: I just think it's amazing. But then we've talked about
12:56
Speaker 1: the best bits, talk about how AI could change for
13:00
Speaker 1: the worst than what the government should do about.
13:02
Speaker 5: That, and this is where he missed the mark again today.
13:06
Speaker 7: There was speculation around what this speech would be and
13:08
Speaker 7: how it would target the bad actors in using AI,
13:13
Speaker 7: whether it's scammers and other things, you know, state actors
13:16
Speaker 7: and things like that using AI. Where's the defense for
13:19
Speaker 7: Australians where is our Anthony albinezingk saying that, you know,
13:22
Speaker 7: Mark Zuckerberg and Meta need to stop the use of
13:26
Speaker 7: AI on Facebook to deceive Australians.
13:28
Speaker 5: It is appalling.
13:30
Speaker 7: I can't spend more than five minutes on Facebook before
13:33
Speaker 7: shutting it down because it's just a ridiculous amount of
13:35
Speaker 7: AI content that people believe. You know, in my heart,
13:38
Speaker 7: I wish people wouldn't believe it, but I know they
13:41
Speaker 7: are believing these things. You know, the likelihood of Australians
13:45
Speaker 7: losing their own personal money through scams is the biggest
13:48
Speaker 7: problem we have for average Australians. And of course then
13:53
Speaker 7: the converse to what I said earlier about Australian businesses
13:56
Speaker 7: is overseas businesses are going to use AI, so we
13:58
Speaker 7: need to make sure that they're not using it more
14:00
Speaker 7: efficiently than us. So there's both the threat vector for
14:03
Speaker 7: both national security and individual personal scam security, and there's
14:08
Speaker 7: frankly just efficiency of other countries if they use AI
14:11
Speaker 7: better than us.
14:14
Speaker 1: Look, I think i'm summing you up here your overall message.
14:18
Speaker 1: I'm simplifying it. But perhaps we should learn not to
14:22
Speaker 1: control it, but to exploit it. That should be our focus.
14:26
Speaker 1: How to make it useful for us.
14:30
Speaker 7: Anyone who has a negative view of AI is going
14:33
Speaker 7: to is going to lose out.
14:35
Speaker 5: You have to embrace it.
14:36
Speaker 7: You have to understand how to use it even incrementally
14:38
Speaker 7: for your business, like you've talked about how you've just
14:40
Speaker 7: started to look at it. If you don't embrace it,
14:43
Speaker 7: you will be left behind. It's kind of like fighting crime.
14:46
Speaker 7: The criminals are always going to have an advantage, but
14:48
Speaker 7: the police will be geared up over time.
14:50
Speaker 5: To catch them. We have to be the same with AI.
14:53
Speaker 7: We have to use it to benefit us as individuals
14:56
Speaker 7: and as businesses and as a government because it can
14:59
Speaker 7: be hugely beneficial to us while ensuring that our law
15:03
Speaker 7: enforcement and then our homes to coneland security and things
15:06
Speaker 7: like that are enabled by it as well to keep
15:09
Speaker 7: us safe and strong.
15:12
Speaker 1: Trevor Long, brilliant stuff. Thank you so much for your time.
15:15
Speaker 1: Really appreciated after the break the panel. As I said
15:25
Speaker 1: before the breaker, why is the Prime Minister even now
15:29
Speaker 1: saying these new data centers, these AI centers, they've got
15:33
Speaker 1: to use renewable energy. Why not nuclear? And that is
15:36
Speaker 1: a question actually for all of us. After even the
15:39
Speaker 1: woke CSIRO today admitted that the cost of electricity generation
15:43
Speaker 1: could jump by more than fifty percent after twenty thirty
15:48
Speaker 1: if we go ahead with Labour's disastrous plan to get
15:51
Speaker 1: to net zero emissions and then we replace our coal
15:54
Speaker 1: fired plants. To the political panel, Cameron Milner, former chief
15:58
Speaker 1: of staff, the Labor leader Builder shortened now Director of
16:01
Speaker 1: g XO Strategies, and Michael Costler, former New South Wales
16:06
Speaker 1: Labor treasurer A Cameron nineteen years ago, then Labor leader
16:11
Speaker 1: Kevin Rudd claimed that Labour's then renewable energy target had
16:15
Speaker 1: been calculated between now and about twenty forty five, so
16:20
Speaker 1: we've still got some time to go to cost something
16:22
Speaker 1: like one dollar per person per year a dollar per person.
16:29
Speaker 1: Were we conned by Labor or is it totally incompetent
16:33
Speaker 1: in understanding how the electricity system actually works?
16:38
Speaker 8: Well, I mean this is another sort of number picked
16:40
Speaker 8: out of thin air, a bit like the turnut and
16:41
Speaker 8: seventy five dollars that Albo promised our power bills will
16:44
Speaker 8: be cut by. I mean, Labour's got form on this,
16:46
Speaker 8: haven't they. They promised the Earth before the election had
16:48
Speaker 8: fail every hour every time afterwards. I mean, you know
16:51
Speaker 8: that number of that dollar number from Kevin Rud's about
16:53
Speaker 8: as believable as a Wayne Swan surplus.
16:55
Speaker 1: I mean, this is crazy and this is the problem.
16:58
Speaker 1: Is that is that people people got people go.
17:01
Speaker 8: To elections with this sort of stuff being put up
17:03
Speaker 8: to them rather than hard facts. And unfortunately, the cost
17:07
Speaker 8: of living crisis in right now is because of an
17:08
Speaker 8: energy crisis in this country driven by ideology, not ideas, but.
17:15
Speaker 1: Michael costs, isn't it extraordinary labour keeps throwing these bogus numbs.
17:19
Speaker 1: It's only going to cost you a dollar a year,
17:21
Speaker 1: only a dollar a year, and then you know we're
17:23
Speaker 1: going to cut your bills in fact by two hundred
17:25
Speaker 1: and seventy five dollars. It's totally divorced from what actually happens,
17:29
Speaker 1: totally divorced from engineering and reality and fact, and yet
17:33
Speaker 1: the public just goes along with it, like these guys
17:35
Speaker 1: actually know what they're doing.
17:38
Speaker 9: Well, it's not just on that, what about the core
17:40
Speaker 9: budget management. That's even worse, isn't it.
17:43
Speaker 10: You know, the laws of the Parliamentary Budget Office blow
17:46
Speaker 10: their budget out of the office. So it's not just
17:48
Speaker 10: in the area of energy, it's across the board. Anything
17:51
Speaker 10: they touch, you know, as I said, it's the reverse
17:56
Speaker 10: Midas touch. You know, it basically turns to what you find.
17:59
Speaker 1: In the paddic.
18:00
Speaker 10: The bottom line is here, there is no chance in
18:03
Speaker 10: the world that we're going to have any power reductions.
18:05
Speaker 10: That analysis of the gen cost report just blows it
18:08
Speaker 10: out of water. I mean, the fact that they were
18:10
Speaker 10: able to put out a report that assumed that the
18:14
Speaker 10: sort of integrated renewables, the storage and everything else was
18:17
Speaker 10: required was just assumed to happen in the marketplace, and
18:20
Speaker 10: that was the only basis they could come up with
18:22
Speaker 10: for showing cheaper power shows that it's a joke. And
18:25
Speaker 10: also Andrew makes a joker your last guest there about AI.
18:29
Speaker 9: I mean this AI.
18:31
Speaker 10: Let's be clear, we're looking at a massive bubble year
18:34
Speaker 10: and in some areas, you know, people companies are re
18:37
Speaker 10: hiring staff because they don't know how to use AI.
18:40
Speaker 9: I'm highly skeptical of all this.
18:42
Speaker 10: Whilst it might be good as a replacement for Google
18:45
Speaker 10: and some sort of engineering processes, there's a long way
18:48
Speaker 10: to go before we get to know an AI integration.
18:52
Speaker 9: And Albo is the last person you'd trust with that.
18:54
Speaker 10: Andrew, I mean, he has no clue about any of this,
18:59
Speaker 10: and government regulation will kill this industry.
19:02
Speaker 9: And expensive power. It's not going to happen here. I'm
19:04
Speaker 9: still waiting for the quantum computer.
19:08
Speaker 1: Oh I'm going to chase that one up. Thank you
19:11
Speaker 1: for reminding me about that. But Cameron, you know you've
19:14
Speaker 1: rattled around in labor circuits for a long time. Explain
19:18
Speaker 1: to me why even now the Labor Party wants nuclear
19:23
Speaker 1: power banned. Well, it's to the point before. It's all
19:28
Speaker 1: about ideology, I mean, you know.
19:29
Speaker 8: And the interesting thing isn't it today that these big
19:31
Speaker 8: AI companies that welcomed Elbow's plan, the Meta is the Microsoft,
19:35
Speaker 8: the Google's, they're all buying nuclear power of the United States,
19:38
Speaker 8: every single one of them. There's actually a three mile island,
19:42
Speaker 8: a Mothball reactor that Microsoft has brought a twenty year
19:45
Speaker 8: contract for to purchase nuclear power to run these data
19:48
Speaker 8: centers on. Because they need reliable power. They can't just
19:50
Speaker 8: wait for the sun to come up or the wind
19:52
Speaker 8: to blow. They actually need nuclear baslow power. And maybe, maybe,
19:56
Speaker 8: just maybe these actually provide the demand to change the
19:59
Speaker 8: calculation Australia from renewables to safe, reliable baseload nuclear power.
20:03
Speaker 8: Once and for all in this country.
20:07
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to happen under Albin Easy.
20:09
Speaker 1: Michael Costa, I know you're not a big fan of
20:13
Speaker 1: these constant, you know, pulse checking poles that are being
20:17
Speaker 1: done every second day, it seems. But there is another
20:20
Speaker 1: poll today, our own sky News one. It confirms that
20:23
Speaker 1: one nation's vote has dropped by solid four points. It's
20:27
Speaker 1: you know, well outside the margin of error. Most of
20:29
Speaker 1: it switched to the Coalition, which is up three. And now,
20:33
Speaker 1: of course with all this going on, there's more scrutiny
20:37
Speaker 1: of how weird one nation can sometimes be, like this
20:41
Speaker 1: sick praise of letting me Putin from one nation, Senator
20:44
Speaker 1: Malcolm Roberts.
20:45
Speaker 11: Have listen and I look at the Ukraine War. I
20:48
Speaker 11: see Putin as standing up to the globalists and earning
20:51
Speaker 11: my respect for doing so. He knows what's going on
20:55
Speaker 11: in Ukraine, and it's a war against the globalists. So
21:01
Speaker 11: the globalists are entrenched in Ukraine, and the Russia was
21:06
Speaker 11: controlled by the globalists no longer.
21:09
Speaker 1: I just wonder what globalist is thinking of as a
21:12
Speaker 1: Jewish bankers may be. I mean, it's sick. And now
21:15
Speaker 1: there's this just uncovered by The Australian just the minutes
21:20
Speaker 1: ago or whatever. His conspiracy theory that Keem traws from
21:24
Speaker 1: aircraft could be a plot. Michael, listen to this.
21:29
Speaker 12: Many people really kill the nation of chemprous in Australia.
21:32
Speaker 12: I don't really kill the idea. I'm open to there
21:36
Speaker 12: being chemp trouser in Australia. I have never denied it,
21:39
Speaker 12: and I think it's likely highly likely that the USA
21:42
Speaker 12: military are doing trials on these things.
21:47
Speaker 1: For Heaven's sake, Michael Costa, what do you make of that?
21:51
Speaker 9: Well, you know what I think of one nation.
21:53
Speaker 10: I think it's got a core base of working class
21:56
Speaker 10: people and you know, rural people that are absolutely frustrated
22:00
Speaker 10: with the system. The systems left them behind, and that's
22:03
Speaker 10: where it's drawing and support. But it also draws nutters
22:06
Speaker 10: and fools like that bloke and opportunists and you know, Andrew,
22:11
Speaker 10: when you scrutinize their policies. By the way, let's raise
22:15
Speaker 10: the question of Cory Benardi. I mean, didn't he vote
22:18
Speaker 10: against nuclear power lifting the band in South Australia. I mean,
22:22
Speaker 10: before we get on the bandwagon of you know, this
22:24
Speaker 10: being a sort of an alternative paradigm for economic prosperity.
22:29
Speaker 10: You've got to realize these these people. One Nation's policies
22:32
Speaker 10: are about big government. They're almost the exact same as labor,
22:37
Speaker 10: but shape differently. They want government intervene everywhere and provide,
22:41
Speaker 10: you know, subsidies to everything and anything, and their anti
22:44
Speaker 10: market you know that that proposal and the five percent
22:49
Speaker 10: you know what is a deposit schoon they're going to fund.
22:51
Speaker 10: That's just full of risks and it's irresponsible and it's
22:55
Speaker 10: going to cause all the problems. So we're dealing with
22:57
Speaker 10: purople that have a court basis since here people but
23:00
Speaker 10: led by chances and nutters and opportunists.
23:06
Speaker 1: I think Corey Bnardi didn't vote against lifting the band
23:08
Speaker 1: on nuclear power, but lifting the ban on a fracking
23:11
Speaker 1: for gas in southern South Australia. But yes, also stupid.
23:17
Speaker 1: What do you make of that, Cameron?
23:20
Speaker 8: Well, I mean One Nation is strongest when it's attacking
23:22
Speaker 8: labor and cost of living. It's it's but it's it's
23:25
Speaker 8: weakest when it's got nut jobs and ninc and poops
23:28
Speaker 8: as they're spokespeople. I mean, some of this stuff from
23:30
Speaker 8: Malcolm Roberts is bat you know battie, completely batty, and
23:34
Speaker 8: you know, to talk about chem trials. I mean, you know,
23:36
Speaker 8: suppose the United States has got a plan to depopulate
23:38
Speaker 8: the world.
23:39
Speaker 1: I mean, that is just.
23:40
Speaker 8: Nutter territory, so stuff, and that's what embarrasses one nation
23:43
Speaker 8: as what drives normal people away from one nation. So
23:46
Speaker 8: to your point, Michael, I think one nation's got a
23:48
Speaker 8: place in the political in a dialogue. They stand up
23:50
Speaker 8: for rural people, They stand up for people, working class
23:53
Speaker 8: people who labors abandoned. But they also have a bunch
23:56
Speaker 8: of you know, weird oh's and whack balls in their caucus,
23:59
Speaker 8: and unfortunately Malcolm Robertson is one of them.
24:04
Speaker 1: Last night, Michael I showed Donald Trump saying it's going
24:07
Speaker 1: to charge ships using the straight upul moose millions of
24:10
Speaker 1: dollars for American protection from Iranian missiles and drones. He
24:13
Speaker 1: was going to charge him twenty percent of the value
24:16
Speaker 1: of their cargo. Now, it was such a dumb idea,
24:19
Speaker 1: it was against international law. And listen, twenty four hours later,
24:22
Speaker 1: he's changed his mind. Have looked.
24:26
Speaker 13: I was called by different people different countries, kings and
24:30
Speaker 13: emirs and all of the.
24:32
Speaker 3: People that we all know and we all love them.
24:35
Speaker 13: They've been frankly, they've been very strong partners, and they said,
24:39
Speaker 13: we'd love to do it a different way. We'd love
24:40
Speaker 13: to invest in the United States with billions and billions
24:44
Speaker 13: of dollars. I like that actually, because I don't think
24:47
Speaker 13: anybody should be able to charge your fee for the
24:50
Speaker 13: for the street, or for any other straight relationship in
24:54
Speaker 13: terms of other sections of the world.
24:58
Speaker 1: Michael Cossa have no faith in that account of what
25:02
Speaker 1: they were telling him. I don't think they said we'll
25:05
Speaker 1: throw you a few more billion dollars if you lifted
25:07
Speaker 1: I thought. I think they might have said, are you crazy?
25:09
Speaker 1: What does this tell you?
25:11
Speaker 9: Well, it tells me that Trump has made us a
25:14
Speaker 9: big blunder. He should have got on and finished the job.
25:16
Speaker 10: I know he's worried about the midterms and domestic policies,
25:20
Speaker 10: particularly the fuel prices, but the bottom line is that
25:23
Speaker 10: he started it and he's got to finish the job.
25:26
Speaker 10: And you know, he's got to be very clear about
25:28
Speaker 10: what he's trying to finish. It's the uranium, it's the missiles,
25:31
Speaker 10: and it's the straight of hormooks. And if he doesn't
25:34
Speaker 10: get on with it, mate, he's looking like a blundering
25:37
Speaker 10: fool at the moment.
25:38
Speaker 9: And that's the reality. He's got advice from his military.
25:41
Speaker 9: They can do the job. Just let him do it. Look,
25:43
Speaker 9: the art of the.
25:44
Speaker 10: Deal doesn't work with people that are a doomsday cult.
25:49
Speaker 10: You know that what the world ends, so the Marty
25:51
Speaker 10: can come back and they grab Nirvana. It's just absolute lunacy.
25:54
Speaker 10: It might work in dodgy real estate deals, but it
25:57
Speaker 10: doesn't work on global politics.
26:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, that's true, Cameron. I give Trump points for
26:06
Speaker 1: at least confronting Iran when many others would not. It
26:10
Speaker 1: needs to be confronted. What disturbs me is that it
26:13
Speaker 1: is all over the shop with no discipline and follow through.
26:16
Speaker 8: Well, that's right, And if Trump was on an episode
26:19
Speaker 8: of The Apprentice, his own show, he'd have to fire himself.
26:22
Speaker 8: I mean, this is a guy who's just mucked up
26:24
Speaker 8: from the start in terms of the messaging around this.
26:26
Speaker 1: I mean, to your point, Michael finished the job.
26:28
Speaker 8: For goodness sake, he had the world behind him when
26:30
Speaker 8: he's bombing the daylights out of Iran and putting them
26:33
Speaker 8: on their knees. And then he thought I could cut
26:36
Speaker 8: a deal with a bunch of crazy mullets. I mean,
26:38
Speaker 8: no way was that ever going to be a deal
26:40
Speaker 8: with Tarran. I mean, these guys are terrorists in government
26:43
Speaker 8: in that state, So no, I mean, this is the
26:45
Speaker 8: great weakness that Trump's let himself in for and now
26:48
Speaker 8: going back and trying to bomb again. I just think that,
26:50
Speaker 8: you know, we're a situation, a conundrum where Trump hasn't
26:53
Speaker 8: played to Trump's playbook, it hasn't played to JD Vance's
26:56
Speaker 8: you know, week at the knees approaches.
26:58
Speaker 1: For US US of power, and now when it's trapped
27:01
Speaker 1: the situation where we have to go back and finish
27:03
Speaker 1: the job properly in Iran.
27:04
Speaker 8: But Iran looks like it's got the whip hands and
27:06
Speaker 8: Iran's found how to basically hold the world to ransom.
27:10
Speaker 8: Over at the Straighthames and supply of oil.
27:15
Speaker 1: Michael Cossa, camer Milner, thank you very much to you both.
27:19
Speaker 1: After the break, police arrest the alleged king pin behind
27:22
Speaker 1: a lot of them Mayhem in Melbourne recently, more proof
27:25
Speaker 1: that our immigration intake has been a menace. I've said before,
27:34
Speaker 1: whether you like her or not, Pauline Hansen is at
27:37
Speaker 1: least talking about a real problem that the major parties
27:39
Speaker 1: have been covering up for years and labour still is.
27:43
Speaker 1: It's who we let in and the culture some bring
27:47
Speaker 1: with them. Now I raised this again tonight, not just
27:50
Speaker 1: because of the terrorism threat and the jew hatred that
27:52
Speaker 1: we're hearing about again the Royal Commission today. Police yesterday
27:56
Speaker 1: arrests the a twenty year old with Elebanies name they
28:00
Speaker 1: say is behind a lot of the recent mayhem in Melbourne,
28:03
Speaker 1: hiring dozens of youths for arson attacks and kidnappings and
28:06
Speaker 1: violent home invasions and some of the warfare over the
28:09
Speaker 1: legal tobacco trade over the past three years. Now he's
28:13
Speaker 1: allegedly boasted that he had some two thousand potential offenders
28:18
Speaker 1: on his books.
28:20
Speaker 8: His self described himself as just an ordinary kid who
28:23
Speaker 8: goes to the gym and runs an empire from his home.
28:28
Speaker 1: Now this ordinary kid, this twenty year old, is reportedly
28:30
Speaker 1: the cousin of Lebanes born j Malcuhn, the former Bucky
28:34
Speaker 1: gang boss who came as a child. This twenty year
28:37
Speaker 1: old is also allegedly the local fixer for another Australian Ali,
28:40
Speaker 1: Al Husseini, and was the Marab name of course, who
28:44
Speaker 1: has wanted over the shooting of this underworld enforcer. Sam
28:47
Speaker 1: abdur Rahman, now a Lussani, is believed to be now
28:51
Speaker 1: hiding in Iraq, where he's worked for yet another Australian
28:54
Speaker 1: gang leader, kaz Hamad, who came to Australia as a
28:58
Speaker 1: refugee from Iraq. More full us for letting him in.
29:02
Speaker 1: Now Hammad is also accused of ordering the fire bombing
29:04
Speaker 1: of the Das Synagogue in Melbourne. At what stage will
29:10
Speaker 1: politicians and the ABC for that matter allow a discussion
29:15
Speaker 1: on this fact that when we import people who embody
29:19
Speaker 1: the worst aspects from a tribal culture, especially one in
29:23
Speaker 1: what's been a war zone, and with us in them religion,
29:29
Speaker 1: we also import a culture and that culture may not
29:34
Speaker 1: change ours for the better, but to the fear in
29:42
Speaker 1: our streets, particularly if you're Jewish. London is just one
29:47
Speaker 1: of the cities around the world that has had menacing
29:49
Speaker 1: anti Israel protests to the October seven massacre of the Jews,
29:53
Speaker 1: and a new report by NGAO Monitor that's in Israeli base.
29:56
Speaker 1: The watchdog says there is something very suspicious and coordinated
30:01
Speaker 1: about many of these protests and I do wonder if
30:04
Speaker 1: the same applies to the ones in Australia. Joining me
30:08
Speaker 1: is the founder of NGO Monitor, Professor Gerald Steinberg, who's
30:12
Speaker 1: also Professor emeritus at Barry Lane University in Israel. Thank
30:17
Speaker 1: you so much for your time. Really appreciated. Your report
30:22
Speaker 1: says many anti Israel protests in Britain have been organized
30:25
Speaker 1: by a globally connected and financed network. What network? Who
30:30
Speaker 1: is behind it?
30:32
Speaker 3: Were research organization that was founded. I've created it because
30:36
Speaker 3: I saw that you have massive involvement of organizations called
30:41
Speaker 3: non governmental organizations other frameworks like that that sound very innocent.
30:45
Speaker 3: They support human rights and other things. They have a
30:48
Speaker 3: huge amount of money and they do a lot of
30:49
Speaker 3: damage and particularly anti Semitism and hate of the West.
30:54
Speaker 3: So we looked systematically at forty protests of demonstrations, mob violence,
30:59
Speaker 3: how call it, that took place in London after the
31:02
Speaker 3: October seventh and twenty twenty three massacre. And what we
31:05
Speaker 3: found using open source informations is something that should be
31:09
Speaker 3: done by universities, should be done by government agencies. It's
31:14
Speaker 3: very available data and we saw that in those forty
31:17
Speaker 3: protests or demonstrations there were six main organizations, well, actually
31:21
Speaker 3: there were eleven main organizations that were funding all of
31:25
Speaker 3: these are of a large portion of these and many
31:28
Speaker 3: of these organizations are based outside of the UK. Some
31:32
Speaker 3: of them are based in the United States. They raised
31:34
Speaker 3: their money very often, including a lot of Middle Eastern connections.
31:38
Speaker 3: So we looked at that systematically and we saw that
31:41
Speaker 3: the money can be tied to China as a generalman.
31:44
Speaker 3: They have Roy Singham, a billionaire. I made a lot
31:46
Speaker 3: of money through connections in China that funded a lot
31:49
Speaker 3: of this activities associated with an organization called Code Pink,
31:53
Speaker 3: which is wife runs. That's an NGO. Also something called
31:56
Speaker 3: the Islamic Human Rights Commission which is run by Iran,
32:00
Speaker 3: another one Friends of Our AXA. Those organizations provided a
32:05
Speaker 3: lot of the resources for what were considered to be
32:07
Speaker 3: what were advertised as spontaneous rallies spontaneous protests. This was
32:13
Speaker 3: two days after the October they started two days after
32:15
Speaker 3: the October seventh, actually one day after the October seventh atrocities.
32:20
Speaker 3: So these were obviously well organized, well planned, and all
32:23
Speaker 3: the money behind them.
32:26
Speaker 1: Your report found at least eleven of those forty big
32:29
Speaker 1: protests you mentioned in London had links to extremist organizations
32:34
Speaker 1: or had officials who had connections with extremists, including, as
32:38
Speaker 1: you say, the Uranian regime, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard, Corps, Hamas, Hezbulla,
32:44
Speaker 1: Muslim Brotherhood, and more. What would be the agenda of
32:48
Speaker 1: some of these players. I can imagine what he runs
32:50
Speaker 1: up to, but what is what could you make out
32:53
Speaker 1: is the aim here?
32:57
Speaker 3: There was a war that was initiated, a very vicious
32:59
Speaker 3: war that was initiated against Israel or resumed on October
33:03
Speaker 3: seven of twenty twenty two. There were seven military fronts
33:07
Speaker 3: and we saw eventually Iran was directly involved his Bott
33:10
Speaker 3: and Elebanon. The aim is to restabilize, to oppose any
33:15
Speaker 3: support for Israel, to promote anti Semitic language, demonize Israel,
33:21
Speaker 3: and we see it very widely. We see it in
33:23
Speaker 3: the medical field, we see it in the academic world,
33:26
Speaker 3: we see it in the media. By promoting this kind
33:29
Speaker 3: of hate word against Israel, the ability for Israel to
33:33
Speaker 3: fight back against this, and it's broader than that. It's
33:36
Speaker 3: the standard line of being the canary and the coal
33:38
Speaker 3: mine that first to go after Israel, but they're really
33:40
Speaker 3: going after the West. And this ties into the piece
33:43
Speaker 3: that you had just a little while ago on your
33:45
Speaker 3: program that this is a very organized framework going after
33:50
Speaker 3: Israel immediately, but the longer term, going after Western democracies,
33:55
Speaker 3: largely funded, hugely funded from the outside under the framework
33:59
Speaker 3: calling for human rights, international law, and it gets to
34:03
Speaker 3: government officials as well. These large protests, the way they're
34:06
Speaker 3: covered in the media very synathetically. They then become very
34:10
Speaker 3: influential with members of parliament and eventually to politicians, including
34:13
Speaker 3: prime ministers. This is part of a destabilizing process starting
34:18
Speaker 3: with Israel. I'm going throughout the West and there's something
34:20
Speaker 3: it needs to be a lot more attention needs to
34:23
Speaker 3: be paid for it. Who's funding this, whose promoters? One
34:27
Speaker 3: of the aspects is that these massive protests mubations what
34:32
Speaker 3: a were going to call it.
34:33
Speaker 14: They all had the same signs, the same slogans, the
34:36
Speaker 14: same posters, the same logos of the same organizations just
34:40
Speaker 14: a day or two after October seventh, and were very extensive.
34:44
Speaker 3: We examined it in the UK, but I think similar
34:46
Speaker 3: work needs to be done in Australia and the United
34:49
Speaker 3: States and European cities to show the coordination, to show
34:52
Speaker 3: the funding behind it.
34:56
Speaker 1: Well. In fact, let's not forget the maxist groups that
34:59
Speaker 1: are also during heavily and a lot of these protests
35:01
Speaker 1: like Socialist Alternative Socialist Alliance groups like that that are seeing,
35:06
Speaker 1: as you say, it's really a wider attack on the
35:08
Speaker 1: West and they want the fall of capitalism in the West,
35:11
Speaker 1: so this is just the latest front for them too.
35:14
Speaker 1: Now you mentioned Australia. If this is what's happening in London,
35:19
Speaker 1: could we assume that something similar is happening in Sydney
35:23
Speaker 1: and in Melbourne.
35:25
Speaker 3: It's very likely these were all copycat events that took place.
35:29
Speaker 3: They were well organized. The big Sydney marshal I think
35:32
Speaker 3: it took place in October night again two days after
35:35
Speaker 3: the Pamas massacre that took place where massive slaughter, massive rape,
35:40
Speaker 3: everything else that we saw, the horrors that we saw.
35:42
Speaker 3: And then we have these big protests, big demonstrations with
35:46
Speaker 3: flags with symbols from these organizations saying Israel's committing war crimes,
35:51
Speaker 3: so pro Palestinian calling these actions resistance, Palestinian resistance. These
35:56
Speaker 3: aren't spontaneous, not in Sydney, not in Melbourne, not any
36:00
Speaker 3: else in Australia. So the question is who's funding them.
36:03
Speaker 3: Very likely some of the same organizations and framework has
36:06
Speaker 3: funded them in the UK, also build the infrastructure, orchestrated
36:11
Speaker 3: the events and did the same thing in Australia. I
36:13
Speaker 3: think it's something that's important. Our capacity is relatively limited
36:16
Speaker 3: our organization. We did this massive report on the UK.
36:20
Speaker 3: Hopefully the same thing can be done by an organization,
36:23
Speaker 3: by a group of people in Australia. I think it's
36:25
Speaker 3: also part of the Royal Commission is supposed to be
36:27
Speaker 3: looking into, and I've seen some of the submissions that
36:30
Speaker 3: have looked at the roles of these NGOs. Amnesty International Australia,
36:35
Speaker 3: for instance, here's that a great deal of money outside
36:38
Speaker 3: of Australia. Where is that going? Is it going to
36:42
Speaker 3: terrorist organizations? Were going to the same funders. That also
36:45
Speaker 3: needs to be looked at because that's part of the
36:47
Speaker 3: anti Semitic wave that we see also in Australia.
36:52
Speaker 1: Professor Jared Steinber, you wouldn't put out too much faith
36:55
Speaker 1: in the Royal Commission. I'm afraid I'm not sure that
36:58
Speaker 1: it's got the time or the energy to exhaust these
37:01
Speaker 1: inquiries like they should be. Thank you so much for
37:04
Speaker 1: your time, really appreciate it. After the break, more outrageous
37:09
Speaker 1: bias from the AVC. The ABC tells us with a
37:18
Speaker 1: straight face that it's not based. ABC Chairman Kim Williams,
37:23
Speaker 1: we're not based. ABC Managing Director Hugh Marx, We're not based.
37:27
Speaker 1: And then last night it runs this crude and deceitful
37:30
Speaker 1: attempt at a gotcha of opposity. Leader Angus Taylor.
37:35
Speaker 15: Let's talk about some other things that you raised in
37:37
Speaker 15: this this major speech that you gave on Friday. You're
37:40
Speaker 15: critical in that speech of wage rises in the care economy.
37:45
Speaker 15: Can you spell out who in that field doesn't deserve
37:48
Speaker 15: a page in which.
37:49
Speaker 4: You should read the next sentence, which is I said,
37:51
Speaker 4: people do deserve to be well paid.
37:53
Speaker 15: Yes, let's clear it up for the audience. This is
37:56
Speaker 15: what you said exactly. Under labor, the care economy has exploded.
38:00
Speaker 15: Segments of this disproportionately unionized workforce have been awarded hefty
38:05
Speaker 15: pay increases.
38:06
Speaker 3: So got to the next sentence, Sarah, Well, just on that.
38:09
Speaker 5: That's very clear.
38:09
Speaker 15: You're making a commentary.
38:10
Speaker 4: You read you should read the next sent where I said,
38:12
Speaker 4: and I will I will say it for you that
38:15
Speaker 4: those people deserve to be well paid, and the way
38:18
Speaker 4: to be well paid is to have a stronger colomy.
38:20
Speaker 15: Yes, but hefty pay increases. Let's just stay there for
38:22
Speaker 15: the moment. Hefty pay increases is not is not someone
38:26
Speaker 15: saying it sounds like a good idea, So I want.
38:29
Speaker 1: To not including the next sentence being it's not a
38:32
Speaker 1: fair patrol.
38:33
Speaker 5: Well, you're saying that.
38:35
Speaker 1: That is extraordinary. I'm not going to give you the context,
38:39
Speaker 1: so let's not talk about the context. I'm going to
38:40
Speaker 1: frame you for this hand. Host Sarah Ferguson told the audience,
38:45
Speaker 1: but angersty I had in fact said in that speech
38:48
Speaker 1: directly after what she quoted. They've seen the point that
38:51
Speaker 1: it was actually making the out of control and unsustainable spending.
38:57
Speaker 4: Segments of this disproportionately unionized work also been awarded hefty
39:01
Speaker 4: pay increases by the Fair Work Commission. Now later has
39:08
Speaker 4: has backed that with billions of dollars of additional taxpayer funds. Naturally,
39:14
Speaker 4: Australians expect and deserve the highest quality services. The workers
39:19
Speaker 4: providing these services expect and deserve to be well paid.
39:23
Speaker 3: No reasonable person could deny.
39:25
Speaker 4: This, But even Labor, in its belated commitment to reign
39:30
Speaker 4: in the NDIS, has admitted that the trajectory is unsustainable.
39:37
Speaker 1: Joining me a gym on any colonists and communications consultant
39:40
Speaker 1: Carolyn de Russo, commentator and president of the Western Australian
39:45
Speaker 1: Liberals GEMMA. That is just so red hot by Sarah Ferguson.
39:50
Speaker 16: It's actually a bit shameful to be honest, and it
39:53
Speaker 16: makes you, you know, trust. You can't have relationship without trust,
39:57
Speaker 16: and you can't have trust without disclosure.
40:00
Speaker 2: And in.
40:02
Speaker 16: Cherry picking as the journalist, as the host did in
40:06
Speaker 16: that segment of interview, at cherry picking out of context
40:09
Speaker 16: a segment of that speech, I would respectfully suggest that
40:13
Speaker 16: that does indicate institutionalized biased and that's all you need
40:16
Speaker 16: to see. Like, I am a consumer of news, but
40:21
Speaker 16: once in my formal life, Andrew, as you know, I
40:23
Speaker 16: was a part of the news ecosystem. I was a journalist,
40:26
Speaker 16: a chief of staff and associate producer in a commercial
40:29
Speaker 16: newsroom for almost a decade and in radio before that.
40:33
Speaker 16: That is inexcusable. He had every right to push back,
40:37
Speaker 16: and I commend him for his restraint.
40:39
Speaker 5: He should have pushed back harder.
40:40
Speaker 16: But how can the leadership of the ABC with a
40:43
Speaker 16: straight face tell the Australian people a that their money
40:46
Speaker 16: as well spent. It's clearly not and B that they
40:49
Speaker 16: are not biased. And I'll give you a suggestion, Andrew
40:52
Speaker 16: that if the journalist in question had have wanted to
40:57
Speaker 16: read that full question in context of that full Chine
41:00
Speaker 16: speech in context, there wouldn't have been a story for
41:03
Speaker 16: their viewers, which is probably why it was taken out
41:05
Speaker 16: of context.
41:07
Speaker 1: Caroline, I'm just stunned by that.
41:10
Speaker 12: Now.
41:11
Speaker 1: I consume a lot of ABC stuff, mainly as a
41:15
Speaker 1: prosecutorial some of the prosecuturial bent and I know, I
41:20
Speaker 1: know they don't play that kind of shabby trick on
41:24
Speaker 1: labor politicians and certainly not in greens ones. That is
41:28
Speaker 1: not a mistake. That is a deliberate gotcha.
41:33
Speaker 17: It is a deliberate gotcha. And Andrew, thank you on
41:37
Speaker 17: behalf of the rest of us for doing that work
41:39
Speaker 17: for us so I don't have to watch the ABC,
41:41
Speaker 17: and I really appreciate the community service that you do
41:44
Speaker 17: there for us in that prosecutorial role. But the point, yes,
41:50
Speaker 17: it is a gotcha. But there's a bigger point that's
41:52
Speaker 17: even more problematic for the ABC, and it's the fact
41:55
Speaker 17: that they don't understand productivity. So this whole idea of
41:59
Speaker 17: focusing on this concept of this hefty pay rise, right,
42:03
Speaker 17: like Jemma said, taken totally out of context. But you
42:07
Speaker 17: need to understand that in the context of what are
42:10
Speaker 17: the services being provided, what is the value to the
42:13
Speaker 17: tax payer? And yes, of course these people deserve to
42:16
Speaker 17: be well paid, but we need to be able to
42:18
Speaker 17: manage a behemoth like the NDIES in the context of
42:22
Speaker 17: the rest of the economy and the rest of government
42:26
Speaker 17: spending so that we can have those sorts of programs,
42:28
Speaker 17: because when you do have out of control spending and
42:32
Speaker 17: when you have very poor productivity, ultimately in the long run,
42:36
Speaker 17: it ends up damaging these sorts of services. And you
42:39
Speaker 17: only have to look to the NHS in the UK
42:42
Speaker 17: to see a care service that has been running to
42:46
Speaker 17: the ground that's incredibly unproductive and you know, serious question
42:50
Speaker 17: marks being raised about how you actually keep something like
42:53
Speaker 17: this functioning, so that there's actually the problem.
42:58
Speaker 1: But yeah, of course significantly it demands discussion. It is
43:04
Speaker 1: what you say, he demands discussion.
43:06
Speaker 5: You can have a very.
43:07
Speaker 17: Interesting and you can have a discussion if.
43:09
Speaker 14: You know the issue.
43:11
Speaker 5: She does not understand anything.
43:14
Speaker 16: Does anyone else remember the day and age of when
43:16
Speaker 16: the ABC's economics editor didn't understand the difference between you know,
43:21
Speaker 16: profit and revenue the same organization the old day, profit
43:27
Speaker 16: and revenue are not the same. Being ABC viewers, you
43:31
Speaker 16: need a little bit of clarity there.
43:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's the malice, it's the malicious biss. I'm
43:37
Speaker 1: sure Sarah Ferguson looking in the mirror. I'm not biased,
43:41
Speaker 1: but Sarah, just look at what you just did. Look
43:43
Speaker 1: at what. By the way, on a lighter note, a
43:48
Speaker 1: louder note, that was getting all keyed up for England
43:52
Speaker 1: playing for a spot in the World Cup final against
43:57
Speaker 1: against the Argentina. Now they're playing Argentina in a World
44:01
Speaker 1: Cup final against Spain. They're going to do it tomorrow morning.
44:05
Speaker 1: I came across this wonderful video and I thought, I
44:08
Speaker 1: tell you what, the soccer skills of Prince William are
44:10
Speaker 1: pretty good. And I really like the way that his
44:13
Speaker 1: wife could speak so fluently off the cuff.
44:16
Speaker 5: Looked hello everyone, welcome back.
44:19
Speaker 14: What an incredible day for football, England versus Argentina, the
44:21
Speaker 14: World Cup semifinals.
44:22
Speaker 7: Finally here you can really feel the excitement of Cargria.
44:26
Speaker 4: You know, England and Argentina have given football some unforgettable
44:28
Speaker 4: moments over the years. Every time we meet, it feels
44:30
Speaker 4: absolutely massive.
44:31
Speaker 14: They really have.
44:32
Speaker 4: It's always passionate, competitive.
44:33
Speaker 5: And full of emotion, and this year the belief feels
44:35
Speaker 5: stronger than ever.
44:36
Speaker 6: My heart's telling me one thing, it's coming home.
44:40
Speaker 5: Come on England. Where are you watching from and who
44:44
Speaker 5: are you supporting?
44:47
Speaker 9: Terrify?
44:47
Speaker 1: But Jimma, here's the thing I did, sat well. I
44:51
Speaker 1: did start the show talking about the perils of artificial intelligence.
44:55
Speaker 1: That turns out to be an AI video and I
44:57
Speaker 1: would never have known. I wonder why someone even bothered
45:00
Speaker 1: to do it, But that is that's high quality stuff
45:04
Speaker 1: these days.
45:04
Speaker 16: Yeah, and that's terrifying, And that's one of the whole
45:07
Speaker 16: points about why AI is not a miracle cure all
45:09
Speaker 16: and it needs to be heavily regulated because that is
45:12
Speaker 16: reasonably believable. Though you could sort of look at it
45:14
Speaker 16: and go on the balance of averages as likely that
45:17
Speaker 16: they did that, and is it likely that Prince William
45:19
Speaker 16: is that good?
45:20
Speaker 13: It's not, but it is.
45:22
Speaker 16: It's a classic example of everything you just talked about
45:25
Speaker 16: in the AI segment, which I watched from the green
45:27
Speaker 16: room here at HQ. But honestly, I've had a couple
45:32
Speaker 16: of people make probably because they're very bored make AI
45:35
Speaker 16: videos of me. And I must say that made me
45:37
Speaker 16: look really good, but it's kind of.
45:38
Speaker 14: Leaves a chilliness.
45:40
Speaker 16: It's a chilliness mine am like, I don't move that
45:43
Speaker 16: well for starters, so like calme the imagination, but it's chilling.
45:49
Speaker 1: It is so freaky and that someone in there, probably
45:52
Speaker 1: in their living room, could do that, Caroline, that is
45:55
Speaker 1: what's spooky. And if we're at this level now, can
45:59
Speaker 1: you imagine in five is time and what Russia, by
46:01
Speaker 1: the way, and China are doing with this kind of
46:03
Speaker 1: stuff for propaganda purposes.
46:06
Speaker 17: Absolutely, And I think for me the only thing that
46:09
Speaker 17: made it a bit of a giveaway was that dog
46:11
Speaker 17: was too well behaved in there being a moving ball,
46:15
Speaker 17: Like anybody who owns a dog, if there's a moving ball,
46:18
Speaker 17: the dog's gone feral and is all over the ball.
46:20
Speaker 5: So for me, that was probably the giveaway.
46:23
Speaker 17: But you make a very very good point, and Andrew.
46:25
Speaker 17: You think about it in the political context, how many
46:28
Speaker 17: times you know, photos or old tweets or whatever come
46:32
Speaker 17: up about candidates, things that come up from the past. Well,
46:36
Speaker 17: we're now getting to a point where you're like, well,
46:38
Speaker 17: how's anyone to know whether something.
46:41
Speaker 9: Is real or not.
46:42
Speaker 17: And you know, you're relying on people being very very
46:46
Speaker 17: responsible clan an environment one hundred percent.
46:49
Speaker 5: It should be declared and if it is fake, that's.
46:51
Speaker 17: Fine, but it should be declared. But you're relying on
46:55
Speaker 17: people being ethical and being responsible in a world in
47:00
Speaker 17: particular where people's behavior is highly anonymized, where it makes.
47:05
Speaker 5: It easier to do the wrong thing.
47:07
Speaker 17: And I think we're gonna it's going to be a
47:09
Speaker 17: big problem.
47:10
Speaker 16: Andrew, you and I are old enough to remember the
47:12
Speaker 16: day watermarks. Everything that is created with AI should be
47:15
Speaker 16: watermarked as such.
47:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but they're not going to do it. The
47:20
Speaker 1: people that wanted to see if you will not do that.
47:22
Speaker 1: And of course that's my point. Once even when people
47:25
Speaker 1: are then told this is AI, they can't unsee what
47:28
Speaker 1: they saw. And people are so passionate now in believing
47:32
Speaker 1: what they want to believe, even if it's fake, they'll
47:35
Speaker 1: believe it. And you're seeing that with some of the
47:36
Speaker 1: footage from that Russia's making about Ukraine war.
47:39
Speaker 5: That's absolutely true.
47:40
Speaker 16: And I'm not one for legislation or big government, but
47:42
Speaker 16: hear me out, make it mandatory, particularly in a political
47:46
Speaker 16: environment that any material that is developed with AI is
47:49
Speaker 16: clearly watermarked, and make the penalties so savage that people
47:53
Speaker 16: would think twice about doing it and then enforce the law,
47:55
Speaker 16: because this is actually more important than someone going, oh,
47:58
Speaker 16: I did no freedom of speech. So this is actually
48:00
Speaker 16: about democracy undermining values and agendas of bad actors, which
48:05
Speaker 16: no one in this country likes to think is even
48:07
Speaker 16: a thing, but trust us, it's a thing totally.
48:12
Speaker 1: It's so sad. But I think she's right, don't you, Caroline.
48:15
Speaker 1: I mean, we need something that screams fake, fake, fake
48:19
Speaker 1: while you're watching it.
48:22
Speaker 5: I think so.
48:23
Speaker 17: And I do take the point that you just make
48:25
Speaker 17: that once people see something, there is this tendency to
48:28
Speaker 17: believe it and to share it and for things to
48:30
Speaker 17: become viral, and the truth has no chance otherwise of
48:34
Speaker 17: catching up.
48:34
Speaker 5: So I don't know exactly what the answer.
48:37
Speaker 1: There does need to be so true, Yep, so true. Jimmy, Tony,
48:42
Speaker 1: Karen and the rest of Out of Time, Thank you
48:43
Speaker 1: very much, and coming up next our documentary out Back Wrangler,
48:47
Speaker 1: What Really Happened? Good note