Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Carnival of Monsters (3/4)

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Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Carnival of Monsters (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:28
  A hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker, quicker.
• 0:38
  Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Drashing
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  Commentary podcast. I'm here today with drashing
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  expert Paul Arthur. Hello, Paul.
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  Hello, Joe, I. Believe you've been spending
• 0:53
  most much of your career studying the anthropomorphism of
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  the drashings in their natural habitat.
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  Well, yes, I'm glad. I'm glad the listener is back
• 1:02
  again for the Ferdinand Christmas lectures on the caves
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  or Caves, the Carnival of Monsters.
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  I believe them. I believe you brought along some
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  footage today showing us the drashings in their natural
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  habitats. Oh yes, yes I will.
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  You will delight at their gnashing and the wailing and
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  their tongue action as they get together in their groups of
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  three. Yes.
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  I believe you've also brought along some material of the
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  jurassics in an unnatural habitat.
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  Are you the Miniscope? Indeed, you will marvel at the
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  the oh, do we have to keep this up?
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  I could keep going forever. So what all basically all that I
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  need to know before the end of this episode, because this is
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  the most drastic, heavy episode indeed.
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  Easily one of the best monsters of all time of Doctor Who, I
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  think is, you know, if you could please just tell me, you know,
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  in sort of David Attenborough style as we go through sort of
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  little documentary excerpts on their behaviours.
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  Are there sexual politics, you know, gender balance, that sort
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  of thing? Oh, we could try.
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  I mean, do do you think that, do you think they've got, I don't
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  know, how do you think they reproduce?
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  This is an interesting question, isn't it?
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  Well. I imagine it's something to do
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  with these stalks on top of the head here, do you think?
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  Yeah. Well, I think the sort of the
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  stalks are inserted somewhere and they pump their sort of.
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  That's got an eye in it. Well, you wouldn't stick, stick,
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  stick your eye in something, would you?
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  I don't know. How do you notice the eyes?
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  Well, I mean, I've to be fair, I don't know.
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  I've just always assumed that's, I mean they're on the top of the
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  head so I could see. Six sexual organs on their
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  heads. For all you know, he's an.
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  Alien. He could.
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  I mean, they hump by sense, so maybe that that's true.
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  They do hump by sense. So they don't need six eyes on
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  their head, do they? Don't.
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  Know if you notice this, you know?
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  But when Vorg sticks his hand in those sort of strokes, the
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  feelings, oh, the smile gets wider.
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  That's how he's able to get his fingers out.
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  They were getting. Bit all right.
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  You've got a gently, gently caressed the.
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  I like to think as well, you know, that the lady drashings,
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  you know, the females, they're the dominant species here.
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  You know they managed to lure in the male drashings by quivering
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  their hairy backsides or whatever it is they've got do.
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  You think it's like other animals where the man is
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  actually the male is actually really really small and the the
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  females like 10 times bigger. Is it like a really big?
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  Spider. Right, Yeah.
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  Or like a or what's that? Is it like an animal the way
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  like the bloke is just like a parasitic tick on the on the
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  belly of a woman. I can't think of what animal.
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  You think this is all women then these drashings that we.
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  Or maybe maybe they're the maybe they're the women.
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  This is the like, this is the thing we've done.
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  Tick monsters is they're always male, aren't they?
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  So what? They always present as male.
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  You don't know where do you? Not really confirmed, just that
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  they're carnivores. This is true.
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  We don't know. We don't.
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  We don't even know if they have sex at all.
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  Maybe they kind of like sexually reproduce.
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  I don't know. Just realise something.
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  We've got Shona and Joe and Claire, yeah, and three
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  drashiks, but the female representation in Carnival of
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  Monsters is. Well done, Robert Holmes.
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  You've got there in the end. Yeah.
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  Yeah. It's weird, isn't it?
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  Because Holmes always gets, like, pillared for this,
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  certainly these days for the lack of female characters.
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  But in this one, we have got strong female characters who?
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  Well, certainly with Joe, certainly with Shona, they're
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  shown to be that kind of maybe not the power behind the throne,
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  but certainly the the one. They've got plenty of agency and
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  like Shona actually knows what's going on with the scope.
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  But like we talked about this before, but Shona knows what's
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  going on for just kind of the showman and just trying to.
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  She sort of saves the day, didn't she, Shona?
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  Yeah, yeah. And she gets that last.
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  In Part 4, we're not there yet, but in Part 4 she gets the
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  little. Well, you mean you want to see
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  powerful women? The female drashigs can eat a
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  spaceship. Or indeed.
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  Nothing get more powerful. Than that right?
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  Well. I.
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  Fancy seeing some of these fabulous lady slimy reptiles in?
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  Action. What do you think?
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  That's yeah, I think that's a fantastic idea.
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  Let's go for it. That's been the most insane open
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  to an episode I've done for a while.
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  Well, would you care to count this in then?
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  OK then, right. So on your marks 321, let's go.
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  I'm serious, you know, I'll want those documentary excerpts.
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  All my drashings are on the screen now.
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  All we've got to do is get your voice down.
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  Logo. See now how the drashings bubble
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  down into the slime and they're mating call?
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  But you, you're so much better this than I would be, Joe.
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  So I think I'd love you to. But I mean, I'll give it a give
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  it a try. Well, that's you.
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  Want me to do? I mean, I've realised we've been
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  flowing, but really this is moving too fast.
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  Yeah, I was going to say I want to see your your Dicky
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  Attenborough, but yeah. You want to see me?
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  Probably thrashing, right? Let's go.
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  Oh, look at them. In fact, the background is
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  pretty great, isn't it, with the clouds?
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  Yeah, yeah. I mean that where they're mixing
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  it with the, you know, the, the, the film of the model with the
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  film of the location. I think it all works really
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  well. Shot on film and shot on film.
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  Well done Barry. Let's.
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  Yeah, and I love, I love the way you can see it move.
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  It feels like a real crunchy because.
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  Look at that. Now notice the provocative
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  wiggle of the drashing's backside now as it moves away,
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  luring the male dressings into the swamp.
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  They find her cool, irresistible, you know, drawn to
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  her big hairy behind. Her quivering mandibles now
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  suggests that she is ripe for ovulation.
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  Please read out some of your facts on the page please.
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  Oh, what we got. Oh, and of course the whole
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  thing about them watching the Doctor and Joe on TV just like
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  we are, and comments on it or when they're escaping.
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  Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
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  We said this all along. I mean, obviously this is all
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  about TV and we talk about naturalism.
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  Homes touches on on that kind of topic again with the two doctors
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  and you know that obviously was of interest in.
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  They ate a spaceship. There was only a few frosters
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  left. Of course they prefer flesh when
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  they can get it. Yeah.
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  I mean, I'm glad we didn't see that.
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  I'm not sure the model work was up for it.
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  Yeah, no, maybe. Maybe that would have been a
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  step too far. Oh, in a minute, right?
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  He starts letting off petrol explosions all over this marsh.
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  It looks so impressive. Yeah.
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  As we were saying before about how let's get, I think he is
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  able to. He knows what works for Pertwee
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  and I think he's able to filming really well.
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  So he gets this massive grand hero moment where you're
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  standing there setting off the marsh gas thing looks.
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  Like, you know, out of smooth Pearl.
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  He's brown, didn't it? Oh my God, look, now notice the
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  trashings mating now, clashing their jaws against each other,
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  salivating and preparing their ovulating mandibles.
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  And we? See one try to slip the tongue
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  in. Oh, and here we have the marsh
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  explosions. That's right, the exchange from
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  exchange of saliva between jurassics is another foodstuff
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  for them. Poor Katie Manning.
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  Look at her. She's literally going under.
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  Oh, they're coming back. She.
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  Can't you help them? Can you imagine being a six year
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  old in the 70s watching this? I mean it would just be the best
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  telly ever. Yeah, you can see why he was,
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  you know, a ratings king at the time and and firmly established
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  on the TV in the TV schedule. I mean, and people still like
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  older people, the people in my parents generation still talk
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  about per we super affectionately as the the
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  doctor. Here we go.
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  One with the maggots. Oh.
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  Exactly have. To put my hand inside.
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  OK. Oh boy.
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  And it is. So it is like a rollic
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  intervention. They're running away.
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  There's monsters, right? All of that sort of savvy
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  commentary on it. Yeah, and as you say this, this
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  episode really taken up with the jurassics a lot.
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  But you. Think now?
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  Well, fine, they're safe. Yeah, but he's already told us
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  they will hunt you until they get you, even if that means
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  smashing through that wall coming into the works.
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  The bit where they burst through, I don't know, on the on
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  the DVD and on the on the Blu rays as well, where there's a
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  lot of, you know, test footage of that Jurassic going through.
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  And I must have watched that a dozen times because it never
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  gets boring. They put the sound effect of the
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  roar on the top and you just see them bursting through the paper.
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  It's like, yeah, love, love that.
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  It's such an iconic. Got the money shot though right?
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  I think they the bit where it does burst.
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  Through. Is just great.
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  Oh, here we go, right? We're talking about the Peep
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  Show now. Indeed.
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  Yeah, yeah. You mean Paul?
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  People are just listening to us on this podcast for kicks.
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  But we're in some sort of Peep Show.
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  They must be absolutely horrible.
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  Paul, you and I are a bit more sophisticated than the hamster
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  community. And, well, yes.
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  They must be evil and horrible, They.
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  Must be sorry, I blanked on the dialogue there.
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  Haven't you ever kept goldfish in a bowl?
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  I mean this is quite pointed this dialogue about.
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  Who's now? Yeah, absolutely.
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  Given, remember Tara, the Altons, you know, had a zoo in
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  it. Yes and yeah, yeah, I think it
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  definitely was a pro, you know, something that a theme that I'm
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  just, I'm just enjoyed writing about.
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  Definitely. That's something that Perly
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  doesn't get to do often enough because Pertly obviously was a
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  showman and a man of 1000 voices.
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  So when he just went with a stick, watch him go, yeah, you
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  know, he doesn't get to do that. I mean, by the time we get to
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  the green death, he's dragging up, for God's sakes.
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  And yeah, yeah, absolutely. What's this dialogue there?
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  I like your handbag. Cool.
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  Make sure I don't slush you with it.
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  Yeah, here we go. Imagine Pertway going in front
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  of the height. Now listen here garishly, Rd.
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  Monsters. It's it's I don't know.
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  This would be that he's getting involved in the banning of the
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  mini scopes. And it's like that kind of, I
• 11:53
  don't know if that sits well with what we know of the Time
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  Lords by this point. Or I mean, I don't know if it's
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  implying that maybe the mini scope is Time Lord technology
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  even maybe I'm not sure, but. I think Robert Holmes doesn't
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  care if he's marrying up with this is true.
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  He's going to tell his story out of the time.
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  Laws are a useful tool to comment on something.
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  He'll do it. And I guess it fits with what we
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  know of of the 3rd Doctor by this point.
• 12:18
  I talked in previous episodes about how this is kind of like
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  by season 10, this is ultimate per wee if you like.
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  And it's kind of distilled into the kind of perfect version of
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  the character. So you're right, it wouldn't.
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  I guess it makes sense that he's campaigning against these
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  things, but I know it just. But then yeah, I'm not a huge
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  one for Ball worrying about Canon or worrying about how
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  things fit in, I suppose. But we talked.
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  We just talked over the drastic bursting through.
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  Bursting straight through the wall.
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  Great stuff. And then cut to what is the
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  legal position, Carly? It's like we're watching two
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  different shows. Pretty much so.
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  That's doctor in a nutshell though, right?
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  That that discrepancy of tone. Yeah, yeah.
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  I mean, but that's often said, isn't it?
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  It's the the juxtaposition of like, weird, the end.
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  But there's nothing. I don't think any other story
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  does it quite like this one where you've got these elements
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  that are completely different but also rhyme with each other.
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  So the characters are similar in one location to the next, but
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  they're completely different. Yeah.
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  So yeah, actually, my thoughts run away with it.
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  Sorry, Joe. I don't know.
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  What happens to me all the time? You're right though, there is a
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  lot of mirroring. I know.
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  It's just it's smart. I think that's.
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  What you're saying very much so, yeah.
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  Oh, look, Carlick is plotting secretly.
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  Do you know what? I'm going to get one of those
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  dressings, right? I'm going to get them out
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  through that hole, grow it up to massive size and eradicate it
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  and embarrass my brother. I mean, I've made, I just told
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  you. Now, if you're going to try any
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  sort of political uprising, yeah, don't use an enormous
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  bloody great reptile, right? He's been told how dangerous
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  they are. You know, he's he's seen them
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  hunting down the doctor and Joe, but he's still thinking he's
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  like he's so he's really so super focused in on on his need
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  for power. He's just seeing how he can use
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  anything to his advantage. I am staggered that Robert
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  Holmes thought like when writing this script, because he's
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  usually pretty savvy about what they can realize on screen.
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  That he fought, one, that they could create these miniature
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  environments, 2, that he could have the human characters go
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  from one to another, and then three, that he could have the
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  thrashing from a swamp through the workings into the ship.
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  But he wrote it in and thought they had a good go.
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  It's a bit like the Pirate Planet where it's so ambitious,
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  the script and they just go. That is so good.
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  We've just got to try. Right, yeah.
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  And, and I think that's when Doctor Who I think is being as
• 15:03
  that is absolute best. I mean, many people don't like
• 15:07
  something like the Web planet, but like you look at the
• 15:10
  ambition of the story like that and it's like, should we make
• 15:12
  this? No, probably not, but we'll give
• 15:15
  it a go anyway. I think that's when Doctor Who's
• 15:18
  probably at his most interesting when it's it's finding ways to
• 15:23
  tell stories that really realistically shouldn't do.
• 15:27
  I'm always fascinated when the when you hear about stories that
• 15:30
  weren't made and and you, you know, the reasons for that, like
• 15:34
  the the what's it called? The cat people one where they
• 15:38
  were supposed to be like a. Stadium the killer Cats of YEAH
• 15:42
  season 15. Right, right.
• 15:43
  And it's like, well, I mean, it's supposed to have like
• 15:46
  Wembley Stadium full of cab people.
• 15:49
  OK, well, wouldn't you couldn't do that.
• 15:50
  But surely you could do something like this.
• 15:52
  I would love to have seen that. You know, you just, it just
• 15:55
  takes somebody to go, OK, this is this script is so good that
• 15:58
  we'll find a way to make it work.
• 16:01
  The Six Doctor 1, the Thiophon, which they said they didn't want
• 16:03
  to do. It's a great script because they
• 16:05
  did it as a lost story for Big Finish and they said no, we
• 16:07
  can't do it because we can't do a forest in the middle of the
• 16:10
  spaceship. You can.
• 16:11
  You just do location work and just have a door and go from one
• 16:14
  to the other. Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 16:17
  And how many, how many forests and jungles have we seen in
• 16:19
  studios? Right?
• 16:22
  That's that's stapled Dr. I mean, some of those scripts that
• 16:26
  are in the lost stories, I'm like, OK, yeah, they're terrible
• 16:28
  scripts. I can see why you didn't make
• 16:30
  them. Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 16:32
  I've got soft spot for the prisoner space.
• 16:34
  I would have laundress in that. Oh boy.
• 16:36
  But I think, yeah, you're right. It would have been terrible.
• 16:38
  Where Jamie slapped Zoe's ass. Stop the hypnotic control.
• 16:44
  I'm like, yeah, I mean, it wouldn't age well though, would
• 16:47
  it? Oh, 100% no.
• 16:49
  But I mean, it would have made it interesting for those kind of
• 16:51
  reasons really. But but yeah, anyway, right,
• 16:54
  Saline, some miners here look, Kellican and Orum, I love the
• 16:57
  staging of this, be it like looming down over a room the the
• 17:01
  way that they film all these bits where they're kind of in
• 17:03
  their little conferences and they're kind of like crowded
• 17:05
  together like that. Yeah, I think works really,
• 17:07
  really well. Look, he's using the studio
• 17:09
  light in their barrage. So yeah, literally the top of
• 17:12
  the studio and. You can do that because you're
• 17:15
  inside the. Working.
• 17:17
  Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Did.
• 17:18
  You hear what Carlick was saying there as well.
• 17:20
  We need a war to stir people up. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:24
  Yes, this is aged very well. Yeah, he's scheming politician
• 17:28
  out for himself, Definitely. Yeah, we.
• 17:30
  Can go strike them, you know, with, with a war, we could get
• 17:34
  up to all sorts, right? That's it, we're done for, she
• 17:39
  says. Here's the here's the scene of
• 17:41
  the literal lateral thinking. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:45
  She goes, oh, doctor, I just didn't think we were getting
• 17:48
  anywhere. Yeah, Katie, man, you've, you've
• 17:54
  she really has perfected this at this point that that whole thing
• 17:59
  that Barry let's says about the regulars have to be engaging
• 18:02
  enough to watch, even if what's on the screen is pretty dull.
• 18:06
  Yeah, well, this isn't dull. And the regulars are great.
• 18:09
  It's a win, win. And, and I think we said before,
• 18:13
  she gets so many good moments here.
• 18:15
  She gets a lot of agency. Like a little bit later in this
• 18:18
  episode, she's back on the Bernice and this scene here
• 18:22
  where she's like, you know, she is her.
• 18:25
  She comes up with a solution to thinking laterally that's not
• 18:27
  thinking naturally at all. So yeah, yeah.
• 18:31
  No, I think yeah, she's fantastic in this.
• 18:33
  How? Do you think laterally?
• 18:34
  I mean, I think I only think in black and white really.
• 18:37
  Well, I mean, wasn't there the, the, the Super forecasters?
• 18:42
  That was a thing of the, the, the last Tory, Tory government,
• 18:47
  wasn't it? Those those people that were
• 18:49
  employed just to come up with off the off the wall ideas and
• 18:52
  solutions to things. Yeah, they could have employed
• 18:56
  me for that. None of them would have been
• 18:58
  actionable. No, right.
• 19:01
  I mean, it's all bollocks, isn't it?
• 19:02
  I mean, yeah, I mean, if you're thinking that far outside of the
• 19:06
  box, I don't know, but. We go to this lost moon, get a
• 19:10
  couple of trash eggs, right? Bring them back.
• 19:14
  You fondle their their head knobs and yeah.
• 19:18
  Head knobs, yeah. That's what I'm calling you.
• 19:21
  You said they were knobs, so. Head knobs and broomsticks.
• 19:23
  That's right. Walt Disney's head knobs and
• 19:26
  broomsticks. Now, this is the one part of the
• 19:28
  story, and it's still great, but it's one part of the story where
• 19:31
  there's a bit of running around that because basically what we
• 19:34
  need to happen is for the doctor to trip his way out of the mini
• 19:36
  scope. And yeah, but there's a lot of
• 19:39
  sort of to in and fro in hiding behind crates, yeah, sort of
• 19:43
  bombs going off, that sort of thing.
• 19:45
  And it's also bringing the the Bernice gang back in it because
• 19:48
  they haven't, you know, that story is more or less kind of
• 19:51
  wrapped up in a way. So they don't have a hell of a
• 19:53
  lot to do for the for the rest of this.
• 19:56
  So in. Part 4 They're basically we just
• 19:58
  cut back to them going Oh my God, sunspots, you know, because
• 20:02
  it's so. Kind of flake out, flake out on
• 20:05
  it and then major daily kind of finishes.
• 20:07
  But his book at the end and that's kind of it.
• 20:09
  So yeah, there is a there is a bit of that, but you do get some
• 20:11
  really great stuff. And we talked about Let's's
• 20:14
  direction. And I think when we get to the
• 20:16
  end of this episode where the drashing is kind of burst into
• 20:19
  the the hold here, the way that he's pulling in and pushing in
• 20:24
  on on Pokie's face, I think it's just terrific.
• 20:27
  I think it looks really really good.
• 20:29
  I remember what I don't know if it's in three or four, there's a
• 20:32
  really vivid shot with a lot of depth perspective where you get
• 20:37
  to see Joe in one set, CSO D in through a hole in the talking to
• 20:43
  the doctor in this set, and it's all in one shot, but it's really
• 20:47
  well done. Yeah, that's brilliant.
• 20:48
  That's the, I think, the beginning of the next episode.
• 20:51
  Oh. Here we go, Cowlick's sort of
• 20:54
  talking for his plans now. Yeah.
• 20:56
  And Terence lodging the the way that he's just.
• 20:59
  Yeah, even when he's not, he hasn't got dialogue.
• 21:02
  He's so watchable. I think he's fantastic.
• 21:05
  Who will be blamed? Paul.
• 21:06
  Yeah. Look, it's the way he moves, the
• 21:09
  way he moves here. He's so like fidgety and nervous
• 21:11
  and he's just, yeah, he's, he's my absolute favorite.
• 21:15
  And you know, Blessed Barry, he hasn't got a big set there, but
• 21:18
  he is trying to move them around it as much.
• 21:20
  As right and you've got that shot.
• 21:21
  We they're looking down on them, yeah.
• 21:23
  And that's basically sort of a sandy plane, isn't it, As you
• 21:26
  see through the window at one point and you see these sort of
• 21:28
  weird silver. Kind of outside, inside, yeah,
• 21:31
  yeah. And do you ever hear the story
• 21:35
  that Jenny McCracken says about when she lost her agent?
• 21:41
  It doesn't ring a bell. So sweet.
• 21:44
  So basically, she owed a lot of money because the agent was
• 21:49
  fiddling her. And so she left the agent and
• 21:53
  was in all of this debt and she just couldn't afford to live.
• 21:57
  And so she picked up the phone to Barry Letts and said, do you
• 21:59
  have anything like I just need to work, I need to earn some
• 22:02
  money. And he went, just leave it with
• 22:04
  me. I'll come back to you.
• 22:05
  And she was like, OK, I won't hear from him again.
• 22:07
  We're fine. And then Barry let's Mr.
• 22:09
  Integrity himself rang about the next day and he says, I, I am
• 22:14
  putting on a six part historical drama and I want you to be the
• 22:20
  lead and gave her a massive part well paid and she cleared her
• 22:25
  debt and she goes he she goes, he said, she said, you saved me.
• 22:28
  It was a lovely story. He's yeah, he was a proper gem,
• 22:32
  wasn't he? Buried?
• 22:33
  It's amazing. But this is the bit I was
• 22:35
  talking about where you see Pertwee backing up, trashing,
• 22:39
  bursting through the whole, the hull of the ship and the way
• 22:42
  that, yeah, he just, he's back against the the whole.
• 22:46
  I think this looks fantastic here.
• 22:48
  Always very awkward, you know, Paul, when you're trashing, just
• 22:51
  bursts out well. Exactly.
• 22:53
  Yeah. And you?
• 22:54
  They're uncontrollable, aren't they?
• 22:57
  It starts roaring. Oh, it's all over the place.
• 23:00
  We've Yeah. Yeah, now that isn't such a
• 23:04
  great show. Maybe not, but when the cameras
• 23:07
  on Perry looks brilliant. They don't.
• 23:09
  Yeah, they don't put the drashing of them in the same
• 23:11
  shot here. Oh, they do.
• 23:12
  Yeah, they do. Yeah.
• 23:14
  You just get that shot. Yeah.
• 23:15
  Yeah. That is wonderful.
• 23:20
  That was the point when I was watching by myself.
• 23:22
  I wish the my family didn't come in the room and thankfully they
• 23:25
  didn't. So yeah.
• 23:27
  Even in the best stories, where there.
• 23:29
  Are moments exactly. I mean, it's you know, but it's
• 23:33
  as a kid of that super exciting still.
• 23:35
  So like, you see, you see past all that stuff when you're
• 23:37
  watching as a youngster. I I never forget that time when
• 23:41
  my sister fucking walked in the room and I'm watching that
• 23:44
  bloody scene in Underworld where there's slow motion going down
• 23:47
  in that lift. Oh, I never heard the end of it.
• 23:50
  She's going oh God, this is the bit where the trash and bursts
• 23:56
  out the ship. Yeah, yeah.
• 23:59
  Now, all right, the effect doesn't convince, but fuck me,
• 24:02
  they're going for it, are they? Absolutely, Yeah.
• 24:04
  I mean, you're right. There's a lot of running around
• 24:06
  in this, in this particular episode, but it's all great
• 24:09
  stuff. And if you're a youngster
• 24:10
  watching, I mean, what, what more do you want?
• 24:12
  I think. The tone is sort of
• 24:15
  entertainment rather than scares, right?
• 24:17
  You can, you can pass by a pony effect, I think.
• 24:21
  But in Terror of the Saigon, you know, when that ridiculous Loch
• 24:25
  Les monster pops his head out the tenants, Yeah, they're going
• 24:28
  for scares there, aren't they? They're trying to make it, like,
• 24:30
  really frightening. Or is this is just ridiculous,
• 24:33
  This great dinosaur popping his head out of a ship being shot at
• 24:38
  by a machine gun? I guess though, if you've
• 24:40
  already, if you've already bumped into the kind of panto
• 24:43
  vibe and aesthetics of it, you're probably going to still
• 24:47
  see that as as a bad effect because you've already thinking
• 24:51
  this, you're thinking along those lines that this isn't a
• 24:53
  great production, but if you're enjoying it, then you're going
• 24:56
  to go with it on you so. You know, Halo says that a lot,
• 25:00
  and I do agree with that. You make allowances if you're
• 25:03
  enjoying it and 100% don't if you're not.
• 25:06
  And I definitely have stories where I don't make allowances
• 25:09
  because I just don't like the stories.
• 25:11
  Yeah, yeah. And that's where like all you
• 25:14
  know, we we talked about kablam in my first episode.
• 25:17
  That's where if you are hating the era, era, you are going to
• 25:22
  fixate on those small production issues because that's more fuel
• 25:26
  for your argument that this isn't a great production.
• 25:30
  So yeah, I think it's just natural.
• 25:32
  Don't like seeing that. I would have cut that scene, but
• 25:34
  it was probably acceptable in the 70s where he's patronizing
• 25:38
  that Indian man. Yes, he's like give.
• 25:40
  Me that gun quiet bad you. Know again, it's, it's
• 25:43
  consistent with his, his, yeah, his attitudes through the story.
• 25:49
  With a fucking. Machine gun.
• 25:52
  The actor must have been love. This is the best day of my
• 25:55
  career. Where's the monster?
• 25:57
  Where am I shooting? I'm not really super familiar
• 26:03
  with Tenure Evans, but I know that he suggested Pet We for the
• 26:07
  role of the Doctor. Yeah, it's the reason we got
• 26:08
  him, yeah. Yeah, so we have him to thank
• 26:11
  for that. We could all do if I've chucked
• 26:14
  a peg, what's strange waters these, you know, And then, I
• 26:20
  don't know, just snap back into the loop again.
• 26:22
  Right. We take a turn around the deck.
• 26:28
  Joe grants. Like do we get all again?
• 26:31
  Yeah, yeah. But it's sort of saying, like
• 26:33
  Katie's, you know, she gets a lot to do in in this episode
• 26:36
  because she's like, she's the one who's trying to convince
• 26:38
  them. And actually, interestingly, is
• 26:40
  the is the female character of the three Bernie's crew, who's
• 26:44
  Claire? Who's the one who's like, maybe
• 26:47
  something is a little bit off here.
• 26:48
  She's the only one who kind of twigs.
• 26:50
  I fucking love that bit where she goes.
• 26:52
  Daddy what? Nothing.
• 26:54
  It's. So good.
• 26:59
  Do you know Barry Lewis Must have been reading this script?
• 27:02
  You want me to? What?
• 27:03
  You want a bloody dinosaur crawling through the hole of the
• 27:05
  ship? Then he's going to grab some
• 27:07
  dynamite, blow a hole in the wall.
• 27:09
  But what the fuck? What's our budget You think
• 27:12
  we've got? Oh, dear, Oh, dear.
• 27:19
  Oh, that. Doesn't a TARDIS just fit in
• 27:21
  everywhere? Yeah.
• 27:23
  Well, absolutely, yeah. That designed to last forever.
• 27:27
  That's why they went bankrupt. That's.
• 27:29
  A crazy Oh my. God, I love this.
• 27:35
  Now I think we're coming up to the cliffhanger, aren't we?
• 27:37
  I think. We more or less are.
• 27:38
  Yeah, we're John popping out at the bottom.
• 27:41
  So excuse me, it's so. It's the.
• 27:43
  Implication there Are we sort of going down the Tory path now?
• 27:47
  Is the implication that Oh my God, that disease ridden Lerman
• 27:51
  has just fallen out of the ship? Back everybody Cliff?
• 27:55
  Well, there we, yeah, very much hadn't picked up on that very is
• 27:58
  stop the boats, isn't it? I mean, we obviously that we
• 28:00
  talked about the bigotry and and the isolationism and not wanting
• 28:04
  to accept anybody into your society, but it's literally stop
• 28:08
  the boats, isn't it? Well, turn it out on its head.
• 28:10
  Is it Doctor Who is finally entering the story, IE the
• 28:14
  reality of the story? Oh, that.
• 28:16
  Yeah, yeah, there's that too. He Yeah, exactly.
• 28:19
  Yeah. At the end of episode 3.
• 28:21
  Right. He's no longer on TV.
• 28:22
  He's actually, he's actually on. Yeah, Yeah, you're right.
• 28:26
  That's that's true. Yeah.
• 28:27
  Because interminer is the reality of it, isn't it?
• 28:30
  Or flipping that on his head, could it be that so many layers
• 28:33
  here that Oh my God, Doctor Who's just tripped out of the
• 28:36
  machine and we know how they deal with outsiders and he's in
• 28:39
  terrible danger? Well, exactly that.
• 28:42
  I mean, we needed cliffhanger. So we, you know, he's going to
• 28:45
  arrive and they're going to want to kill him.
• 28:47
  You've just said exactly that to all three of my interpretations
• 28:50
  there. But it's all of that, isn't it?
• 28:52
  It's like it's, it's talking around those themes.
• 28:55
  So it's this is where where a Doctor Who can get clever or any
• 29:01
  or anything clever is like when it when it's talking about
• 29:04
  themes and ideas rather than just plot.
• 29:08
  So when it all of those readings, all of that is valid,
• 29:12
  right? And it is all three of those
• 29:14
  things. And it's, it's more besides, you
• 29:16
  know, there's more going on here.
• 29:18
  Dudley's doing his music there as Jenny Mccracken's going.
• 29:21
  I think I do. Remember.
• 29:25
  Doing this one before. Oh my God, it's so.
• 29:29
  But again, tracking cliffhanger mini perk we popping out the
• 29:32
  bottom. Do you mean did you think the
• 29:34
  merchandise has been like, Oh my God, a John Perry action figure?
• 29:37
  Why haven't we thought about that?
• 29:39
  Yeah. And we there was quite a lot of
• 29:41
  merchandise in the per year, but they definitely ever did a
• 29:44
  figure did there's no per we don't.
• 29:45
  And you think you think they definitely would have done that?
• 29:48
  That's crazy. Yeah, well, Tara Sticks always
• 29:51
  says on the commentaries enterprising was the last thing
• 29:54
  that BBC enterprises actually were.
• 29:58
  OK, I've got another top three for you.
• 30:01
  Another list because this is the episode of the Thrashics.
• 30:05
  Yeah, we'll have the top 3 oversized Dr. Who monsters.
• 30:10
  Oh. OK.
• 30:11
  So many to choose from. Number one.
• 30:17
  Oh Yep, com. Was gonna say crawl.
• 30:19
  Ah, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump.
• 30:22
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:26
  I mean he is the most oversized monster.
• 30:28
  Indeed, Yeah, I mean, and, yeah. And works brilliantly.
• 30:33
  Well, I think again, it's Robert Holmes.
• 30:35
  Get exactly what you're saying, like Robert Holmes delivering a
• 30:37
  script with a colossal giant octopus and and the production
• 30:42
  team going, yeah, OK, yeah, we'll do that.
• 30:45
  I mean, I think they asked for it, didn't they?
• 30:47
  They wanted the biggest monster. Ever.
• 30:48
  Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
• 30:49
  Yeah. OK, so Crow's number one, OK.
• 30:54
  Blimey, there are other than many big ones.
• 30:57
  Excuse me? You've got the Merka, the
• 31:00
  Scarasan, you've got the Ratnos, You've got, oh, the entire moon
• 31:08
  in Kill the Moon. That was a creature.
• 31:11
  Are we are we calling that a monster?
• 31:13
  Well, that's, I mean, you've got the spiders there, OK.
• 31:15
  Desperate now, right? Right, right.
• 31:20
  And the drashings, obviously. Well, obviously the drashings,
• 31:22
  let's put the dresses in two. I think they are super
• 31:25
  successful. You've got the pussy in a planet
• 31:29
  of giants. Yeah, who doesn't like a giant
• 31:33
  pussy? I've got giant tentacles, you
• 31:37
  got giant pussy. What's right with the world?
• 31:41
  Right, exactly. I mean, you mentioned him
• 31:45
  earlier, so I'm going to give place to the planet of the
• 31:50
  Ogron's bollock monster. Big, big blobby.
• 31:54
  Big blobby boy. Yeah, that's my.
• 31:58
  How did we forget Creature from the pit?
• 32:01
  Oh, that's enormous. Let's take it back.
• 32:04
  I'll take it back. Let's put her Alto in three.
• 32:06
  Imagine if that phallus met the pussy.
• 32:09
  Oh no. OK.
• 32:10
  And I'll cut it there.