Latest / The Strength In Numbers Podcast / EP 26: Dan Braun | Bridging Rehab and Performance With Holistic Collaboration

Transcript

EP 26: Dan Braun | Bridging Rehab and Performance With Holistic Collaboration · The Strength In Numbers Podcast

0:00
Just because you have the ability to do all those things
0:02
yourself doesn't mean you should do them all yourself.
0:06
I think a lot of time the more collaborative you can be in that
0:09
team based environment around these complex return to sport,
0:13
return to play type cases, the better off the athlete is going
0:16
to be. You need to have high respect
0:18
and low ego. People think that they can run
0:21
the entire show, but I've found through personal experience that
0:25
that's just not the case. And that's not true.
0:28
If you're really looking to potentially change behavior, you
0:32
have to go deeper than just citing statistics and cited
0:36
research articles. In my own experience, I tried it
0:39
and it didn't work. Unfortunately, I find a lot of
0:42
the times it takes something bad happening to an athlete for them
0:47
to realize, like I have to change what I'm doing.
0:50
This is not working. It takes them going into pain.
0:53
It takes some kind of injury or something like that a lot of the
0:56
times for them to realize, Oh my goodness, I'm not invisible.
1:00
I'd rather choke pursuing greatness than nibble on
1:03
mediocrity. How do I reach instead of maybe
1:06
100 people locally, how do I reach 1000 people in other
1:09
areas? How do I exponentially increase
1:12
my own impact? Welcome to the Strength in
1:19
Numbers podcast. I'm your host, Jon Bloom, and
1:22
today's guest is Dan Braun. Dan is the founder of Braun
1:25
Performance in Rehab. Along with hosting the Braun
1:27
Performance in Rehab podcast where he has recorded over 485
1:31
episodes. We dive into factors that
1:34
commonly delay the return to play process, the skills
1:37
strength coaches should have in return to play, and how to help
1:40
overwork athletes with chronic injuries like tendinopathies.
1:44
Dan also breaks down the biggest growth levers for his business,
1:47
his viewpoint on evaluating success and why he's focused on
1:50
scaling for greater impact compared to just financial
1:52
success. Enjoy the episode, Dan.
1:54
It's it's great to have you on here today.
1:56
It's pretty cool. And I don't know, less than a
1:58
year ago, I got to be on your podcast at which you do an
2:01
awesome job with now. So now it's cool to get to have
2:04
you on here and you get to ask you questions.
2:06
So I appreciate being on here, Dan.
2:08
Yeah, I really appreciate the invite and the opportunity,
2:10
John. I love the book and I love all
2:12
the stuff you're doing in the Spaceman.
2:14
We're lucky to have you here. Thank you man.
2:16
For people that don't know, you can just give a brief background
2:18
and on who you are and what you do.
2:20
Absolutely. Dan Braun by education and
2:23
training doctor of physical therapy with an undergrad and
2:26
background and exercise science. I still treat patients
2:29
clinically down here in Raleigh, NC.
2:32
It's a bit more of a concierge's private role now, which has been
2:35
really fun for me to transition into.
2:38
I also work for a few different companies.
2:40
I work for ISO Fit, which produces isometric exercise
2:43
equipment, and I consult for Vault Kinetics out of the Yale
2:47
Labs and they're a little bit of a sports science, sports tech
2:51
startup, if you will, entering the space.
2:53
So I wear a few different hats in addition to hosting my own
2:56
podcast and doing my own LLC and that sort of thing.
2:59
I don't like to be bored. I like to stay busy and I'm just
3:02
thankful to have a fun life and connect with awesome people such
3:05
as yourself. That's really cool.
3:08
So as you talk about kind of those different rules, like like
3:10
I've known like the ISO Fed and like they sponsoring your
3:13
podcast and you did a lot of that.
3:14
But like with those other roles that you have, how did you get
3:17
from, OK, maybe you just have your own business or you're
3:22
working on your own to growing into those opportunities or even
3:25
having those opportunities for these these other kind of areas
3:28
along with what you're doing individually?
3:31
Absolutely. Yeah.
3:32
I mean, for lack of a better way to put it, I was never the
3:35
smartest guy in the room, especially in college.
3:38
I was not like top of the class or anything like that.
3:42
And I'm usually just a little too dumb to say no to things.
3:45
So when people come to me with opportunities, I just want to
3:48
find a way to make it work, and I want to take it and jump in
3:51
head first. Now, eventually I think that's
3:53
going to get me into trouble. I bet I'll probably bite off
3:56
more than I can chew. But you know, my little saying
3:59
is I'd rather choke pursuing greatness than nibble on
4:02
mediocrity. And I just think that that
4:04
constant drive and ambition to look for more and do more and be
4:09
more and just have a greater impact and assist others in
4:13
whatever they're trying to do is something I've always kind of
4:16
had that way since I was a young kid.
4:18
I think it's just kind of one of them small town traits that got
4:21
instilled in me early on and I've yet to shake it.
4:24
Yeah, no, that's awesome. I love, I love that quote.
4:27
With things like that, did did those opportunities that you had
4:30
the, the ability to say yes to these things come from
4:34
visibility from your podcast and having that out or from just
4:38
connections of we, we've see this guy doing high quality work
4:41
and what he's doing and somehow I got connected there.
4:43
Or were you reaching out to people for even more of these
4:46
opportunities? A lot of the time people reached
4:49
out to me. So from the podcast, I call this
4:52
the Millander Effect. I had a Derek Millander from the
4:55
Cavaliers on the show who released an episode and
4:58
afterwards I had a ton of people start reaching out to me from
5:01
different companies, from Proteus, from ISO Fit and so on
5:04
that way. So that led to a lot of
5:06
opportunities just by doing good work consistently.
5:10
Same thing with Vault is they've reached out to me.
5:12
We met at a conference that way. So I think in general, just
5:16
finding a way to put yourself out there and I don't think it's
5:19
really specific to one platform. You can do it on a podcast, you
5:22
can do it on YouTube, on Instagram.
5:24
I mean, I still use my Myspace on occasion.
5:27
I've got 6 connections. Like it doesn't really matter
5:30
what platform you use. I think just putting yourself
5:34
out there and at the end of the day trying to do good honest
5:37
work and just be true to who you are will not steer you wrong.
5:41
Yeah. And I love that.
5:42
Now, when I was on your podcast, we talked a lot about
5:45
collaboration between kind of all the different area, like not
5:49
just just being your own domain, you know, sport, sport coaches,
5:52
dietitian, you know, return to play with strength coaches and
5:55
all of us working together. When it comes to return to play,
5:59
From your perspective, what skills or understanding or
6:03
abilities should a strength coach have within that setting
6:06
to best assist the athlete and assist the people running the
6:11
rehab and return to play process?
6:12
Absolutely. So I think this is true
6:14
regardless of what the title of the individual is.
6:17
I don't care if it's a skills coach, strength coach, athletic
6:20
trainer, PT, whoever is working with the athlete at this phase,
6:25
to quote Dan Taylor, you need to have high respect and low ego.
6:29
I think a lot of the times people think that they can do it
6:32
all themselves. People think that they can run
6:34
the entire show. But I've found through personal
6:37
experience that that's just not the case.
6:40
And that's not true. You know, thinking back to my
6:43
own educational background, a lot of it was focused on the
6:46
autonomy that a clinician has right when I was practicing in
6:50
Maryland. I have direct access.
6:52
I can see athletes as long as I feel there's a medical need.
6:56
If I need, I can order diagnostic imaging form X-rays,
6:59
Mr. is, I filled out all those scripts.
7:01
But just because you have the ability to do all those things
7:04
yourself doesn't mean you should do them all yourself.
7:08
I think a lot of time the more collaborative you can be in that
7:11
team based environment around these complex return to sport,
7:15
return to play type cases, the better off the athlete is going
7:18
to be. It also so then becomes more of
7:20
a group consensus, right? Like, hey, is this athlete ready
7:24
to return or is there something maybe we're missing?
7:27
Because it's very easy for one person to miss something.
7:30
It's a lot more difficult for 8 to 10 members of the team to
7:34
miss something. So I think the more tribal and
7:37
collaborative you can make that, the better off it be.
7:39
It is obviously keeping the athlete as the center point and
7:42
the focal point in that entire time and maybe even including
7:46
them in the conversation because a lot of the times the athlete,
7:49
it's no more than we might think they do.
7:52
And they can give us a lot of valuable insight and information
7:55
about how they're doing and how they're performing and feeling.
7:58
And it's like, you know, look, the numbers and metrics might
8:01
look good, but if the athlete looks at me and says, hey, I'm
8:04
not ready to go, then at the end of the day, the athletes in the
8:07
right. Yeah, no, that's really good on
8:10
that part. We talk about where like just
8:12
because we can do something to me, we should.
8:14
What, what? What have you found for yourself
8:16
and your experience kind as you talk about that, that maybe
8:19
there's things you were doing or could do that worked better when
8:24
you may be delegated over that role was handed out to somebody
8:27
else versus you trying to do it all.
8:29
What parts of the process for for you and that?
8:32
Yeah, there's a few different things that come to mind.
8:34
I mean, First off, on the clinician side, going back to
8:37
the diagnostic imaging, it's like I had strip heads sitting
8:40
in the office, but that didn't mean I filled them out every
8:43
time, right? Like, you know, if an athlete
8:46
comes in to me and I suspect that they might have some type
8:49
of internal derangement in their knee, whether that's ACL injury,
8:52
meniscus injury, whatever, do I want to be the one to be giving
8:57
them that news and then explaining the process?
8:59
Or do I want to maybe get them involved with an ortho early on?
9:02
And some of those things like meniscus tears, they can be
9:06
missed on MRI. And like, I'm not the best, I'll
9:09
admit it, I'm not the best at interpreting what's on those
9:11
images. So I'd rather get them to
9:14
someone who can understand it a little bit more in depth and
9:18
detail than myself. So one, if they feel it's
9:21
necessary, we have multiple sets of eyes on it instead of just
9:24
one. And two, it might not be
9:26
necessary. It's almost like a built in
9:28
second opinion for the athlete, if you will.
9:32
And I'd say the other piece too is just on the exercise side of
9:34
things in the physical therapy space, there's this growth of
9:38
incorporating S&C principles into rehab programs.
9:42
And by many accounts, I love it. I think historically speaking,
9:47
the PT space, if we look at your traditional outpatient type
9:51
clinic was under loading and under serving some of the more
9:55
active athletic populations. However, going back to the team
9:59
approach, I, I learned that you as a clinician don't have to be
10:03
the one to do all of that yourself.
10:05
Like you don't have to all the sudden take over the athletes FC
10:08
program, right? Like you can support the work
10:11
that a good SNC or good skills coach is doing with the athlete
10:16
and you don't have to do it all yourself.
10:17
And I found more success doing stuff like that then trying to
10:22
be the guy that did it. All right, thinking about some
10:24
of the overhead athletes. Take a baseball pitcher, for
10:27
example. I played baseball, but I wasn't
10:30
very good at it. So do you really want me to be
10:33
the one to try and break down why you have shoulder pain in a
10:36
certain part of the motion myself?
10:38
Or do you want me to maybe involve your pitching coach who
10:40
understands the mechanics and they've worked with you for a
10:43
longer period of time than I have?
10:45
You know, I think the more hands we can involve in that and the
10:48
less, you know, I have to be the one to do all the work, the
10:51
better the outcomes were. Yeah, yeah, very cool.
10:53
And at some .2 becomes like you start to dilute your skill if
10:57
you try and do everything and be knowledgeable in every area.
11:01
It's like there's only so deep you can go.
11:03
And I think there's, there's huge value in being a generalist
11:06
and, and things, but but if you try and handle everything, you,
11:10
you can't be the expert for all areas and deliver that to that,
11:13
to that that person you're serving.
11:15
And sometimes we got to bring in other experts, like you're
11:17
saying for, you know, you know, throwing the baseball, right?
11:20
Like if you're going to be the expert in that, like it's going
11:22
to be tough to be do all these other things too versus just
11:25
bringing in somebody else into that team you're talking about.
11:28
And I think people appreciate that line of thinking and the
11:32
effort that it takes to make that happen.
11:34
And I found that going that extra step led to a lot of
11:40
success that I didn't really expect, right?
11:42
At the end of the day, I was just trying to do the right
11:44
thing by the people in front of me.
11:45
But they appreciate that. And then they tell other people
11:48
about it. And then that viral nomics
11:50
effect starts to take hold because at the end of the day,
11:53
you're just doing the right thing by the people in front of
11:56
you. And that was some of the early
11:58
advice that was given to me by a surgeon Doctor James Therese is
12:02
he was like, look, regardless of what you do or what happens,
12:06
just always do the right thing by the person in front of you.
12:08
And if you do that, you can sleep good at night and
12:11
everything else takes care of itself.
12:12
And I've really tried to embody that principle.
12:15
Yeah, no, I love that that mindset as we talk about return
12:19
to play rehab, from everything you've seen, what are the maybe
12:23
mistakes but also maybe just factors that end up causing
12:27
delays in that return to play process?
12:30
I think a lot of times coaches, clinicians, athletes, they get
12:34
told to look at return to play almost like a event on the
12:38
calendar, if you will. On this day at this time, we're
12:42
going to do these assessments, right?
12:43
We're going to do hop, triple hop.
12:45
We're going to test your strength of this and that and so
12:48
on. And as a result, they hang their
12:51
hat on this one snapshot in time to decide whether or not someone
12:56
is ready to return sport. When in reality, I think it
12:59
should be more of a continuum, more of a progression.
13:02
We don't get there overnight. And that one snapshot in time
13:06
might not be enough for me to decide one way or the other.
13:10
They might look great, but that still might not be enough for me
13:12
to be comfortable and confident in our decision.
13:15
They might look awful, but that could just be the effects of
13:18
that day, right? I had an athlete that I was
13:20
working with, late stage ACL, meniscus transplant and meniscus
13:25
repair. There's so much work done in his
13:26
knee and he came in one day, hopped on the force plates and
13:30
everything was down 20 to 30%. Every metric you can think of.
13:33
But he was just sick for the last two days and spent him in
13:37
bed puking. So naturally things aren't going
13:39
to look is good that day, but if I don't take the time to have
13:42
that conversation and I'm just going by the numbers themselves,
13:45
I completely missed that. So I think ultimately reframing
13:49
our conversation around return to play to be more of a
13:52
continuum, right? Are we moving closer and closer
13:55
each day? But also is there stuff that I
13:57
can start assessing earlier in the process?
14:00
So then it's more of a trend over time then one specific date
14:05
on the calendar that I've looked at.
14:07
And I think the other piece is just applying Goodheart's Law to
14:11
the return to play space. This is something that my friend
14:14
Rob Wilson talks a lot about in his book The Check Engine Light,
14:18
and I freaking love it. Essentially, when we start to
14:21
assign so much value to a measure, when that measure
14:24
becomes a target, Goodheart's Law claims that it ceases to
14:28
become a good measure. And the first example that comes
14:31
to mind is standardized testing, right?
14:34
And teaching for a test, right? Do we as coaches or clinicians
14:38
have certain biases that maybe we, I don't want to admit that
14:41
we look for, you know, certain symmetry on hop and triple hop
14:45
and so on. So as a result, we have our
14:47
athletes start doing hop and triple hop so that they get
14:51
better and pass the assessment so that they go back to sport,
14:54
right? There's certain biases that
14:56
exist and I think the more aware of those you can be on your own
15:00
end, the better and more effective of a clinician you
15:03
become. So now when you do these
15:05
assessments, everything you do is valid and it is at the end of
15:09
the day, just a good measure and measuring what you're intending.
15:13
Yeah, a couple things like like as you're talking about with
15:17
kind of that just like set hard timeline of, OK, this is when
15:21
we, when we assess like I feel like it's the same thing like
15:24
performance on the performance side, where, you know, there has
15:28
been more of that shift to ingraining testing within
15:31
training rather than just, OK, we test at the beginning and
15:35
then we test 12 weeks later. And like, did we get better?
15:37
Like like you're saying, what if that athlete happened to be sick
15:40
3 days before that final Test since like the numbers went
15:44
down? It's like, did that mean the
15:45
whole program was bad or were they just really tight or really
15:48
sick? Or like, I think about two, it's
15:50
like, you know, with with these like high school athletes a lot
15:53
I work with, it's like, what if they did some crazy stuff at
15:57
their high school practice, like, and it's a bad testing
15:59
week or they have a, you know, a club tournament right before,
16:03
you know, we test. So it's like, I feel like the
16:05
same thing there where it's like ingraining that testing
16:08
throughout and having continuous checkpoints to impact your
16:11
decision making to make sure you're headed in the right
16:13
direction versus just basing it on this one date that they may
16:17
or may not be in a good spot for and, and could influence
16:21
actually knowing did what we do work?
16:23
And are they getting better? Just like you're saying with
16:26
with the rehab process? Like are they are they actually
16:28
where they need to be to progress to XY and Z?
16:31
Yeah. And I just, I just think it's so
16:34
much really easier and better for a decision making throughout
16:36
the whole process in both settings to have these
16:39
continuous checkpoints rather than just, I feel like kind of
16:42
flying blind throughout that process.
16:44
If we only have these long term things and nothing to tell us,
16:48
are we going in the right direction between them?
16:50
Absolutely. It gives you that instant
16:53
feedback to kind of confirm or adjust what you've been doing
16:57
and if it's working. And you know, I think of the
17:00
classic knee extensor strength example, right?
17:03
That's a huge thing they look for in the post op me and
17:07
sometimes even the post op hip in the athletes for a return to
17:10
sport decision. And for me, it's like the sooner
17:13
you start assessing the strength of that and the sooner you start
17:16
to realize like, hey, we're off track or we're right on track
17:20
and we just need to continue to pound the rock, the easier that
17:23
conversation is going to become. A lot of the athletes that I was
17:27
seeing clinically that were referred to me 6 to 12 months
17:30
out, but did rehab at other places and just didn't get back
17:33
to the level they wanted to. A lot of them had deficits in
17:36
that. And I said, hey, what if we just
17:38
start assessing this earlier, right?
17:41
It's a isometric test. You're not even moving.
17:44
So there shouldn't be a whole lot of injury risk with that or
17:48
even if you do it isokinetically.
17:50
You know, I don't think we need to wait 9 to 12 months after a
17:54
knee injury to do that. I think we can probably start
17:57
that sooner and that gives us valuable insight and information
18:00
as far as where that athlete is. And again, going back to the
18:03
point of trends over time, it's super easy now to build that
18:07
into an Excel file and just visualize it right in front of
18:11
you. And you know, if you're not an
18:12
Excel guy nowadays, we have this awesome AI called ChatGPT and
18:16
you can literally punch it in and it'll literally make you a
18:19
file to track that stuff. Like it's never been easier to
18:24
see those trends over time. And ultimately, it's just that
18:28
going back to Rob's book for a second, it's that check engine
18:30
light. It tells us when things maybe
18:32
are not going the way we want them to, when maybe we need to
18:36
look a little deeper and intervene accordingly.
18:39
And I think having that built in system of checks and balances
18:43
for yourself is incredibly value valuable, whether you're a coach
18:46
or clinician. And obviously there's other
18:49
applications for that on the skill side as well.
18:51
I know there's different skill assessments that exist out there
18:54
that you can run, and just having this process of being
18:57
able to look at yourself in the mirror and understand what
19:01
you're doing that's working. And maybe when things go off the
19:04
beaten path, what could be contributing to that, whether
19:08
from yourself, your athletes or other factors that play into
19:11
that? No, I love it.
19:12
I love it. As we talked about return to
19:14
players, we think about less long term injury, but maybe more
19:17
chronic stuff, You know, the tendonopathies.
19:20
If we're dealing with like I work with a lot of middle school
19:24
high schoolers now that are, you know, they're playing club
19:27
sports almost here and they're playing school stuff almost year
19:30
round. They're going to extra skill
19:33
workouts. Like some of these.
19:34
These people are doing two to three things every day, seven
19:37
days a week. No, no day, no days off at all.
19:39
And and that's part of what has helped these really good players
19:42
be good. But now they start to deal with
19:44
maybe they got, you know, tuts endopathy, these basketball
19:46
players and they they want to keep pushing and working.
19:49
And it's kind of, you know, goes goes back and forth of maybe
19:52
feeling a little better, but they never actually stop and and
19:55
do what they need to do to to help this.
19:57
So how do we how do we help these athletes that are.
20:00
Always doing stuff and have some of these lingering issues where
20:05
it's not, you know, obviously we know it's like that stuff.
20:06
It's like just just resting is not going to do the trick.
20:09
But like, how do we still help them balance that and and get
20:12
better, but still be able to progress and work and feel like
20:14
they're doing what they need to do?
20:16
Absolutely. This is a great conversation
20:19
topic and there's a lot of different factors that play into
20:21
it. In my opinion, I think there's
20:23
been a lot of research and work done surrounding the acute to
20:26
chronic workload ratio. And it's one of those things
20:29
that just looking back historically, sometimes we can
20:33
proceed forward by looking backwards and looking at the
20:36
history, you know, were there any crazy spikes in volume and
20:40
workload? And I don't think you really
20:42
need Agps or any of those metrics to do it right in the
20:46
middle school or high school population.
20:48
I think just good quality conversations with the athlete,
20:51
parents, if you know the coaching staff and so on that
20:54
way and just looking into things like, hey, before this issue
20:59
arose, let's take the teletending app.
21:00
Being a basketball player, I know you're a basketball guy.
21:03
Before this started to bother your knee, what happened?
21:06
Was there any changes? Oh yeah, we had a tournament.
21:09
I played five games the weekend before.
21:11
Huge acute spike. And from there it's just a
21:14
matter of how do we get this to calm down quickly.
21:17
So hopefully it doesn't develop into that chronic issue like you
21:21
mentioned, because I've seen athletes that come in and they
21:23
say that, yeah, I've had this for three years, had this for
21:25
five years. It's like it's a lot easier to
21:27
cool things off when you get to them quickly as opposed goes to
21:31
waiting for years and years and years because anatomically and
21:34
physiologically, things change within the body when you've had
21:38
it for that long. So now it's like I'm not just
21:41
undoing what occurred in the weekend, I'm undoing what's
21:44
changed and what's occurred over several years of time.
21:48
That way, when athletes have that going on to the point that
21:51
you made one of them don't like to rest, they've tried resting
21:54
before, they've been told the rest before and it just didn't
21:57
do anything for them. So for me, I try to find an
22:01
initial entry point. What can I do that helps to
22:05
change that structure in a positive way that produces some
22:09
kind of benefit or effect? So going back to the patellar
22:12
tendon, there's so much research out there about isometrics for
22:16
the knee extensor mechanism. So I usually go there and I go
22:19
five sets, 30 to 45 seconds. Some people go overcoming, some
22:24
people go yielding. I like overcoming.
22:26
I feel like it's a little bit lesser of a threat them at this
22:30
early and I just look for some kind of immediate improvement.
22:33
And I would say at least 80% of the time there's some kind of,
22:37
hey, this feels better and that's what I'm looking for.
22:40
Hey, can we at least just calm it down, even if it's only for
22:43
20 to 30 minutes just to get an entry point so now we can
22:46
continue to progress this. I think the other piece in
22:50
relation to overuse tendinopathies in particular is
22:54
that tendons transmit force to move bone.
22:57
And at the end of the day, there's multiple different
23:00
tendons for multiple different muscles that do similar things.
23:03
Looking at the ankle complex for a second, everyone talks about
23:07
the Achilles tendon because the gastroc and soleus complex
23:11
combined to form that and it is the main plantar flexor muscle.
23:14
I'm not going to argue that. But there's other muscles that
23:17
contribute to plantar flexion that no one ever talks about.
23:20
No one talks about. There are very few people talk
23:23
about the tibialis posterior. Very few people talk about the
23:27
long flexors of the toe, FDLFHL and so on.
23:31
And sure, they might not be the primary mover, but they're in
23:34
the picture. So it's one of those things that
23:37
I also want to incorporate something for those other
23:40
muscles and other tendon structures that exist in the
23:43
region instead of just teaching an athlete, hey, it's all
23:47
Achilles, Achilles or nothing. Achilles needs to take 90% of
23:51
the load every single time. It's like, hey, what if
23:53
hypothetically taking these numbers up as we go, if we train
23:57
some of these other muscles that assist in that motion, we train
24:00
some of those tendons that also transmit force and load during
24:04
plantar flexion. And now instead of carrying 90%
24:07
of the load, hypothetically, Achilles tendon only has to
24:10
carry 80% because some of these other groups are also doing the
24:14
same job. So I think that concept of
24:17
splitting things amongst multiple different paths instead
24:20
of just one road, and from a force distribution standpoint,
24:23
now I've got it going across multiple different regions
24:26
instead of just one, has helped me tremendously.
24:29
Working with athletes to get them results in a much faster
24:33
way because now they're able to continue to play.
24:35
They're able to continue to perform because those structures
24:40
that we're trying to work on and change and address that have
24:43
caused them pain or caused them decrease in performance don't
24:46
have to do as much of the work to get the same outcome, if that
24:49
makes sense. Yeah, No, I think I think that
24:52
was really, really great insight as we think about those athletes
24:56
and in that type of situation, maybe not even dealing with an
24:59
injury necessarily, but just the feeling that they and then
25:04
today's kind of culture of youth sports have to do so much of
25:08
that stuff every day, all weeks. Or the parents feel like their
25:12
kid has to do all these extra things, you know, start playing
25:17
club sports at whatever young age and do it every weekend,
25:20
travel every weekend like and there's just no break.
25:23
There's non-stop. How do we, how do we help those
25:27
parents or help those athletes that feel like they have to do
25:30
that stuff or else they're going to be left behind?
25:33
Yeah, it's the conversation about is more always the answer
25:37
is more, always better. And I think there's a lot of
25:41
different ways to go about this. And when I was initially coming
25:45
out of school, I went the research route and I'd say
25:48
research articles. And I'd say, oh, you know, look
25:50
at this like, hey, if you're sleeping less than a certain
25:53
amount of hours a night, because there's a lot of kids that I
25:56
work with that they drive two to three hours one way for our club
25:59
practice and then drive two to three hours back and they're
26:02
sleeping 5 to 6 hours a night. And I'd try and show them the
26:06
research that says, hey, not getting sleep like you're doing
26:10
is actually detrimental to skill acquisition.
26:12
It's detrimental to your physical health.
26:15
This is going to become a problem and people just didn't
26:18
really follow it. I think a lot of times people
26:21
know intuitively what they're doing is not the best thing.
26:25
They know not sleeping 7 to 8 hours a night is not a good
26:29
thing, but they're still going to do it.
26:32
So I think if you're really looking to potentially change
26:35
behavior, you have to go deeper than just citing statistics and
26:40
cited research articles. Because at least in my own
26:42
experience, I tried it and it didn't work.
26:45
Unfortunately, I find a lot of the times it takes something bad
26:50
happening to an athlete for them to realize, like I have to
26:54
change what I'm doing. This is not working.
26:56
It takes them going into pain. It takes some kind of injury or
27:00
something like that a lot of the times for them to realize, Oh my
27:03
goodness, I'm not invisible. This is not sustainable.
27:07
We all have this little Superman complex about ourselves, or at
27:10
least I do. I like to think, Oh my goodness,
27:12
well, I've been skiing since I was 2 years old.
27:14
You know, knock on wood, I'm not going to get hurt when I go
27:17
skiing. My dad had the same thing and
27:20
unfortunately he tore his ACL when he was 5354 years old.
27:25
It's like, it's one of those things that I think we all think
27:28
that we're Superman until something happens to us and it
27:31
humbles us. So it becomes a matter of how do
27:33
we get people almost to that humble state, that state of
27:38
realizing, hey, this is not good long term and I need to change
27:41
it prior to that happen happening.
27:43
And ultimately this is a conversation that I have with a
27:47
lot of people and we're still struggling to get a firm answer
27:51
that works for every person. I think a lot of the times it's
27:54
a very individual driver and it's a individual difference.
27:58
And it's one that finding from a sales standpoint, sales teams
28:02
talk about pain points all the time and you know, hey, you have
28:06
to find one thing that they really hone in on from a product
28:10
sales standpoint. I think the same is true in
28:12
relation to athletes and behavior change.
28:15
You have to find one or two things that just impact them
28:18
very deeply. It might be on an emotional
28:21
level, it might be on a spiritual level, it might be
28:24
some other level that I haven't mentioned.
28:26
But finding those things that you can have a serious
28:28
conversation with them about that they can relate to that
28:32
ultimately lead to the behavior change.
28:34
You know, I think that's the kind of stuff that's not really
28:36
taught in schools. It's not discussed much in my
28:39
opinion, but a lot of what we do in the space is behavior change,
28:44
right? If I'm a skills coach, I'm
28:46
working with a basketball athlete and I decide that their
28:49
shot is not efficient or effective, I have to change that
28:53
behavior of the motion that they've been shooting with for
28:56
however long. And it's like, you know, the
28:58
more effective I become at that, then maybe the better coach I am
29:03
because I'm able to take a not desirable action and turn it
29:07
into a desirable action. But it's a never ending battle
29:10
and process I think to get athletes to or apply that to
29:14
other aspects and avenues of life, whether that's the
29:17
overtraining or the under recovery or whatever you want to
29:21
call it that way that's going on.
29:23
The when you talked about like, like people like with sleep,
29:26
people know they it's bad to not get that much amount of sleep,
29:30
but we still do it anyway. That's like what I think with
29:32
nutrition, It's like people for the most part inherently know
29:36
what's good and what's bad with nutrition, but that doesn't mean
29:39
we always made those decisions. Again, behavior change.
29:42
And, and as you talk about needing maybe one of those
29:46
humbling, painful moments to actually bring about that
29:49
behavior, have you seen some examples where you've been able
29:53
to incite that, like you talk about the pain points or things
29:55
like that without actually having that incident happen?
30:00
Yeah, it's, it's interesting because I've seen both ends.
30:03
I've seen one end where, you know, I've tried to have
30:06
conversations with athletes about things and it doesn't
30:09
really go well. And I've seen other aspects
30:12
where I have that conversation and it does go well.
30:15
And the best example I can think of was when I first came out of
30:20
school at my first position, there was an athlete that
30:24
actually worked part time at the clinic that I was at, absolutely
30:28
phenomenal soccer player, one of the best soccer players that I
30:32
ever saw. And I noticed when this
30:34
individual was demonstrating exercises and doing different
30:38
things throughout the clinic, there was a pretty pronounced
30:41
right knee valgus moment. Now, I know valgus is often
30:45
debated in the space that way, you know, does it contribute to
30:49
the ACL? Does it not because athletes
30:52
fall into valgus all the time? But to me, this was a very
30:55
uncontrolled valgus. And when we assessed strengths,
30:59
there was a lot of absent strength in the hip, in the
31:03
knee. There was just things that
31:04
should have been significantly stronger than I felt they were.
31:08
And it was one of those simple things like, hey, let's have
31:10
conversation about this and let's get you, if nothing else,
31:13
let's start you on the path to doing a few different things
31:16
because they weren't part of a formal SNC program at time.
31:20
So it's like, hey, if nothing else, can I get you doing
31:23
something to at least push the needle in the correct direction?
31:26
Can we start getting these things stronger?
31:28
Can we start building a more robust, resilient lower
31:32
extremity that way? And later on, talking with that
31:35
same athlete, that same athlete started a formal SNC program
31:39
with a local organization and they just stuck with it.
31:41
They kept with it and they were consistent and they continue to
31:44
get stronger, continue to get stronger.
31:46
And as a result, they, you know, knock on wood playing D1 soccer
31:50
now with no injury whatsoever in the knee that I'm aware of.
31:54
So it's one of those things I might not have done anything
31:58
meaningful and impactful in that other than have a conversation,
32:02
right? Like the exercises I gave might
32:04
have been terrible. They might have been wrong.
32:06
Someone else would have picked 5 different ones.
32:08
To me, it's more about what spark and initial impact can you
32:13
have on the athlete. And I'm not going to take credit
32:15
for the success that she's had because she did that on her own,
32:19
right? You know, they sought out the
32:21
S&C and got involved there, they got recruited and so on that
32:25
way. But if nothing else, I can at
32:28
least take credit for having the initial conversation and saying
32:31
something when I saw something. And I think if you do those
32:35
things, you never know what kind of catalyst effect can come from
32:39
it. You know, maybe it's exactly
32:41
what that person needed to hear at the time.
32:43
Maybe it falls on deaf ears, but at least you know you tried and
32:47
made an effort at the end of the day.
32:48
It's, it's funny because I feel like, like you talked to before
32:52
you kind of took the research and the logic approach of, OK,
32:55
I'm going to, you know, show these studies of when you get,
32:58
you don't get this much sleep and you know, XY and Z happens.
33:01
And sometimes that falls on deaf ears.
33:03
And I feel like it's sometimes like when the, the situations
33:07
when we really try to convince people, sometimes it just
33:11
doesn't work. But then sometimes we have these
33:13
conversations that maybe we don't think are like that crazy
33:17
or that insightful. But then like you're saying it
33:20
sparks a change or like something just clicks in that
33:23
that person's head that changes their mindset is like, we didn't
33:27
even think we said anything that crazy or that like meaningful or
33:33
impactful. But then like you're saying, it
33:34
just sparks that that that catalyst for that little bit of
33:36
a change that maybe just shifts their trajectory one inch, but
33:43
for for a long period of time, it just makes the difference
33:46
that they needed. Absolutely.
33:47
And like I didn't cite any research in the conversation
33:51
with the athlete or their parents.
33:53
I didn't give an FMS score or anything like that.
33:56
Like I kept it super simple and on one hand, I I like to
34:01
overcomplicate things. I love the deep dives.
34:03
I love to get into the weeds. But on the other hand, I found
34:07
Occam's razor holds true. At the end of the day, if you
34:10
can simplify things to a level that you're, they're not
34:13
diluting the initial message, but you're getting the point
34:16
across that a level that anyone can understand.
34:19
There's just so, so much value in that, regardless of what
34:23
space you're in or what your goal is.
34:25
And I think you know, you talked about that principle for about
34:29
doing what's best for the people you're serving always.
34:33
I think when you've shown a history of that for that person,
34:36
whether it is sending them to another person that they need
34:38
for a certain area of expertise, when they've seen that from you.
34:42
And then if you have that conversation with them, I think
34:45
it's going to be more likely to be that catalyst or inspire
34:49
change because they've seen that you're just trying to help them
34:52
and be honest with them in the you have a history and in a
34:56
background of, of doing what's best for them.
34:59
Absolutely. And it's one of those things, I
35:02
think a lot of times people concern themselves too much with
35:04
the financial side of things. And I get it, it can be
35:07
stressful, especially if you're just starting up or starting a
35:10
new facility or you've got debt and loans from school, whatever
35:13
it is that way. But at the end of the day, I've
35:16
never had to concern myself with my financial situation by
35:20
putting others 1st and by just doing the right thing.
35:23
One directly leads to the other. Putting others first, caring for
35:27
them, doing the right thing at all times, doing that over and
35:30
over again and having a bit of that servant based mindset, if
35:33
you will, has never led me wrong.
35:36
Maybe it will someday, But you know, knock on wood, we're we're
35:40
going strong so far. So I think as long as you again,
35:44
just do the right thing by the people in front of you, even if
35:47
that doesn't in the short term benefit you financially, right?
35:51
Even if it's like, hey, look, we're going to put some sessions
35:54
on hold because because I want you to get this checked out, or
35:56
I want you to see this person, or hey, you know, I'm not even
35:59
the right person for you. I want you to work with this
36:02
individual. Those little actions do tend to
36:04
compound and cascade over time, at least in my own experience.
36:07
For sure. As you talk about that piece of
36:10
it, what have what have been some of the other growth levers
36:13
for your business that that you've seen maybe as you first
36:16
started now and growing to now? I would say reading the book
36:20
Viral Nomics written by Jonathan Goodman.
36:23
It's a older book, but one of the key takeaways I got from
36:27
that book was the power of word of mouth marketing.
36:30
It stood the test of time. And at the end of the day,
36:33
regardless of where you're at, whether it's a big city or a
36:37
small town, people are naturally going to talk to others and
36:40
they're naturally going to promote the things that they
36:43
like. They're naturally going to
36:44
promote the things that are doing right by that.
36:47
So going back to that concept of having a servant based mindset
36:51
and doing the right thing by the people in front of you, if you
36:54
do that, I think your marketing needs are almost fully taken
36:58
care of. I don't have a booming social
37:01
media presence or a booming TikTok by any means.
37:04
I try to post stuff when I can, but it's not my favorite thing
37:09
to do. I'll be honest, I don't love
37:11
going on Instagram. I don't love scrolling through
37:14
the feed to try and find ideas to post.
37:16
I don't enjoy that side of things.
37:19
I'd rather just do really good work by the people in front of
37:22
me. And I find the longer you do
37:24
that, that consistently, the more likely you are to have a
37:28
positive impact and positive growth in the area.
37:31
I mean, you could some of that might translate like Google
37:33
reviews and that sort of thing. But two of our clinics when I
37:36
was up in the Maryland, Delaware area, we weren't even on Google
37:39
Maps. So it was very exclusive to the
37:42
word of mouth side of things that way.
37:44
And I, I also say building off of that, having a very quick
37:48
streamlined way for people to get in contact with you.
37:51
And it doesn't matter what that is, whether that's a business
37:54
phone or that's Instagram DMS, whatever.
37:56
That way, just having a system in place that when people need
38:00
you, you're there for them. You know, I know that there's a
38:03
lot of conversation about burnout and drawing the line.
38:06
And I think that's very real, right?
38:08
Like if you text me at 9:00 PM on a Friday, I'm probably not
38:11
going to text you back right away.
38:13
That's that's OK to have that separation.
38:15
But regardless, having that system in place where people can
38:19
reach out to you quickly and you can get back to them with a
38:22
within a somewhat timely manner, if you will, I think that pays
38:26
dividends as well. Because a lot of people are used
38:29
to calling a place and not hearing back for three, 4-5 days
38:33
or calling a place and being stuck on hold for 30 to 45
38:36
minutes. And if you can remove that and
38:39
overall just make life a little bit better for them as a result,
38:42
hey, I have more time now because I don't have to wait on
38:45
hold with a phone call. I have more time now because
38:49
instead of waiting four days to get a call back to get an
38:52
assessment with the strength coach, I got a call call back
38:55
one day later. I think moving in a efficient
38:58
manner and having a framework in place to help make that happen
39:02
also pays different. And I think that from that
39:04
initial contact, if you do get back fast, also gives them trust
39:09
in the type of service they're going to get if they do commit
39:13
to, you know, paying you and when working with you.
39:16
Because again, like you're saying, if you know, if it's
39:18
maybe a, a, a bigger, a bigger place that they're having to
39:23
wait a couple days, then that might be indicative of the type
39:25
of service. You know, they have issues
39:27
during the process or they need questions answered during the
39:30
process versus can you get back to them within, you know, 24
39:33
hours, 12 hours, say, OK, I don't know if I have questions
39:36
or I have concerns or you know, things are going on, I'm going
39:40
to have somebody that can actually get back to me and
39:42
handle those and and probably have a more maybe closer
39:46
personal relationship with the people in this business.
39:49
The other piece, and I didn't recognize this at the time.
39:53
And then other people started to point it out to me.
39:55
They were like, oh, you're really good at this, You're
39:57
really good at that. But I didn't, I didn't recognize
39:59
it at the time and I still don't think I'm as good as I should
40:02
be, if you will. But the art of communication,
40:05
whether that's non verb, body language, looking at someone
40:08
when you talk to them, or the verb.
40:10
Herbal side, the tone that you use, the energy that you bring
40:13
to the conversation, and so on. That way, a lot of that stuff
40:16
has more of an impact than I think we recognize and realize.
40:21
And I think having the ability to take yourself from high
40:24
energy for one person to very serious tone for the next and
40:29
vice versa is an art that takes a lot of time and practice to
40:32
master. And I by no means have mastered
40:34
it yet, but I found different athletes, different individuals
40:37
need different things, and I want to try to be able to meet
40:41
them where they're at and give them whatever they're looking
40:44
for from that standpoint. That's great.
40:46
As you think about your business or just podcast, really any
40:49
aspect to your career, what what system do you feel you need to
40:54
build for yourself that you haven't yet?
40:56
Things that I have a tendency to work harder, not smarter, and
41:01
I've always been that way. I have no issue putting a lot of
41:06
time into something and I have no issue just kind of putting my
41:09
head down and grinding something out.
41:11
And I think again, coming from a middle of nowhere small town,
41:15
that's just one of those things that was common there.
41:17
There was a lot of value and work ethic and hard work and the
41:21
grit and determination to just get something done that I didn't
41:25
always have the most effective way to do it, but I found a way
41:28
to make things work given what I had.
41:31
I think that a lot of these different individuals that I've
41:34
talked to that scale now a lot of times when people throw the
41:37
word scale out, they think of financial scaling and making
41:42
more money. But for me, I want to flip that
41:44
and say I want to scale and have a more impact, a greater impact
41:49
on more people, right? How do I reach instead of maybe
41:52
100 people locally, how do I reach 1000 people in other
41:55
areas? And how do I exponentially
41:58
increase my own impact? And I think the best way to do
42:01
that is to become more efficient in how you deliver things and
42:05
how you go about your day-to-day operations, right?
42:08
If you can take stuff that used to, you know, take an hour of
42:11
your time to do and shorten that to 10 to 15 minutes, or maybe
42:15
you're able to delegate a task to someone else and they're able
42:19
to do it, and then you just take two minutes to review it quick.
42:22
I'm terrible about delegating stuff and I'll own that.
42:25
But I, I realize that the more you can use your time in a way
42:29
manner, the better off you're going to be in this process.
42:33
And I'm not good at that whatsoever.
42:34
I think the other thing that really helped drive that home
42:37
for me was this book written by Benjamin Hardy about time
42:41
hacking, he called it. And essentially he breaks it
42:44
down in the sense that we assess time and view time as just that
42:49
we view progress as time, right? Like, hey, I've been in this
42:52
space 30 years or, you know, I've lived to 95 years of age or
42:58
something like that. When in reality, maybe instead
43:01
of distance traveled as a metric of success, maybe we flip it to
43:05
what was accomplished in that time, right?
43:08
So we have the same 24 hours in a day.
43:10
But if I get 20 big projects done in that time and someone
43:14
else only gets one small project done, then can you say that I'm
43:18
living life in a faster lane and faster pace because I'm getting
43:23
things done in a more efficient manner at the same quality than
43:27
other individuals? So I think kind of changed
43:29
changing our relation with how we view progress and how we view
43:33
this concept of distance travelled and time spent, if you
43:36
will. Finding ways to make that entire
43:38
system function a little bit more clean and more efficiently
43:42
is definitely something that I'm trying to master for myself,
43:46
because I haven't gotten to it yet, yeah.
43:48
That's really cool. Where you went with that?
43:50
How are you specifically trying to scale your impact and reach
43:55
and impact more people through what you're doing?
43:57
Yeah, so one of the things I've been trying to be a little bit
44:00
more intentional about is actually planning different
44:03
things, planning my actions using my calendar a little bit
44:06
more. Because I used to just block off
44:08
3 period, you know, 3 hours of time, and just put work and I'll
44:12
just pick a project, whatever I was feeling, and hammer it out.
44:15
Now I'm trying to actually dedicate and delegate blocks of
44:19
time to specific things. Right?
44:21
Hey, this time block, I'm going to work on this project,
44:24
specifically this part. You know, how can I take those
44:27
big picture things and kind of break them down into smaller
44:30
tasks or smaller goals, if you will?
44:33
That way? I think the other piece is
44:35
finding someone that you can share those goals with from a
44:39
accountability standpoint. There was a study done several
44:43
years ago, I believe it was GAIL Matthews, but don't quote me on
44:47
this, that looked at the concept of setting goals and
44:51
accomplishing the goals that you set out to achieve.
44:54
And they found that if you write them down, break them into small
44:57
steps and share that with someone else.
44:59
So putting it on the calendar piece by piece over time, and
45:04
then also telling someone else like, hey, I'm working on this.
45:07
Like, you know, just check in with me every now and then on
45:10
how it's going. You're significantly more likely
45:13
to actually achieve the thing that you set out to.
45:16
So not being known as the person who says you're going to do
45:19
something and then it just never comes to fruition for one reason
45:23
or another. Actually being known as the
45:25
person who, hey, when I say I'm going to do something, I get it
45:29
done. I'm just trying to find a way to
45:30
make that whole system and process more efficient.
45:33
And I found breaking things up into smaller blocks and getting
45:37
other people involved just from a motivational standpoint helps
45:40
to make sure I'm moving in the right direction.
45:42
Yeah. No, that's that's I think that's
45:44
awesome. And as he talked about impact
45:46
and scan that obviously like your your podcast with, you
45:50
know, you've had over. I think when I let looked early
45:52
this week, I got 485 episodes on your podcast.
45:55
Obviously that's that's a lot of impact, right?
45:58
That's a lot of episodes, a ton of information and wisdom and
46:00
insight with from you and you know, however many, you know,
46:04
hundreds of guests you've had on there.
46:05
What what drove you to start that you know, however many
46:11
years ago was for you and and and begin that process.
46:14
So when this whole thing started, it was around the COVID
46:17
pandemic era. In fact, it's just when it
46:20
started in March of 2020. And I was in Graduate School at
46:24
the time and there's a lot of uncertainty, right?
46:27
We got told, hey, you're going home and you're bringing
46:30
everything that you've got from your apartment with you.
46:33
We don't know if you're coming back.
46:34
So there's just this kind of pause effect that occurred.
46:38
And I found that I suddenly had a lot more time because things
46:42
were shifting to virtual. A lot of lectures became
46:45
asynchronous. And me being me, I just would
46:48
listen to him on 1.2 speed instead of 1.0 speed.
46:51
I'm like, hey, can we shave like 10 minutes off of this, right?
46:54
And with this newfound time and freedom, even when in grad
46:59
school, I had this fear of just falling victim to a lot of these
47:03
different digital distractions that exist in today's day and
47:07
age, right? Like, Oh my goodness, I'm going
47:09
to spend too much time scrolling social media.
47:12
I'm going to spend too much time watching the news, whatever it
47:14
is that way. And I wanted to make sure that I
47:17
was using this new fountain time in a productive manner,
47:21
productive fashion. So I always liked podcasts.
47:24
I was a huge fan of the Ben Greenfield podcast.
47:28
I listened to a lot of his episodes when I was in school
47:31
and I was like, what if I just started my own?
47:33
So I just googled how to start a podcast and just made it happen.
47:37
First episode was nothing special whatsoever, however, I
47:40
literally recorded it from my phone without any kind of
47:45
headphone or anything like that, Held my phone up to my mouth
47:48
like this the whole time and just talked.
47:50
It was probably awful, probably terrible.
47:53
I don't recommend anyone listen to it because it's one of those
47:56
things that I had no clue what I was doing and in a lot of ways I
47:59
still don't have any clue what I'm doing.
48:02
I think the audio quality has improved, the conversation
48:05
quality has improved, and I'm starting to actually like
48:09
listening to my voice a little bit.
48:10
That's one of the things I find funny is I really don't like my
48:13
voice and I don't like how I look on camera.
48:16
So for me to go and do the podcast thing, it's pretty
48:19
uncomfortable early on and it's still a little uncomfortable at
48:23
times. But I think those type of things
48:26
that you do that are uncomfortable are the ones that
48:28
provide the most value for you in the long run.
48:31
So kind of jumping head first into those uncomfortable things,
48:35
they pay dividends in the long run.
48:37
And I think just again, being a little dumb and refusing to say
48:41
no and refusing to quit things, I just kind of kept it going.
48:45
And one thing led to the next led to the next.
48:47
And I would see other podcasters doing stuff like I'd see him
48:51
bringing guests on. And I was like, oh, that's cool,
48:53
I should start bringing guests on.
48:55
And I just started with my kind of small local network and then
48:58
kind of expanded out from there. And I was like, hey, this person
49:02
just had multiple guests on. I should try that.
49:05
And just continuing to be curious and explore any
49:09
opportunity that came my way. And some of them were, you know,
49:13
just cold emails that led to amazing conversations.
49:16
And I think, again, just being willing to pursue things, being
49:19
willing to just have the conversation and see where it
49:22
goes, and just always having that curiosity has helped lead
49:26
to the success that way. And I mean, it's not like it's
49:30
not quite like the Joe Rogan level of podcast yet or anything
49:33
like that. But you know, I think if you
49:35
pound the rock long enough, you're eventually going to get
49:39
to that level. So I'm just hoping that
49:41
consistency and that sort of thing continues to help it grow
49:44
and scale like and be a good free resource for people that as
49:49
long as you invest the time to listening, hopefully you're able
49:52
to take something valuable and impactful up from it.
49:55
What are you fascinated by right now?
49:57
There's a few things and I would say the biggest one lately has
50:00
been the nervous system of all things, which when I was in
50:04
school I freaking hated the nervous system.
50:07
Like we had to take neuroscience and neuro rehab and all these
50:10
different things and I wanted nothing to do with it.
50:14
I thought motor control was boring.
50:16
I thought neuroscience was boring.
50:18
I was like, you kidding me? Do you really mean to tell me
50:21
I've got to memorize all these different spinal tracts and DCML
50:25
and all this crazy stuff that was just going way over my head.
50:28
And now it's kind of been a full circle moment for me.
50:31
I think when I was in school, I used to think that horsepower
50:35
was the answer to everything, right?
50:37
Like, oh, we're going to solve it by making it bigger.
50:39
We're going to solve it by making it stronger.
50:41
And that's going to come from muscular hypertrophy.
50:44
And now I've really fallen into the camp that the nervous system
50:49
plays such a key, crucial role to anything from displaying
50:53
strength and force output to skill development, to how we go
50:57
about our day-to-day lives. You know, the brain is always
51:00
on, it's always active and listening.
51:02
So kind of reframing my mindset a bit to how can I intervene
51:07
things from more of a software or hardware type of analogy.
51:12
That way you know what's within the actual system itself than
51:15
just changing the system entirely or building a bigger
51:19
system. So I've been really interested,
51:21
intrigued with conversations around that, around skill
51:25
development, around motor learning, around psychological
51:28
theories, and how we can actually take some of those
51:30
psychological theories and implement them into our SNC and
51:34
our sports rehab practices, if you will.
51:37
Which I'm not an expert at it by any means.
51:40
I'm still kind of hanging my hat on some of the stuff I've talked
51:43
about today more than that that, but it's been interesting to
51:47
kind of learn more about the stuff that I historically have
51:50
not been interested in. Yeah, no, that's a, that's a
51:53
cool change, actually. I mean, the nervous system's
51:56
fascinating. All the avenues, rabbit holes
51:58
you down with that what what time frame do you evaluate
52:02
success on? Yeah, so this is an interesting
52:05
conversation. In fact, we've been recording a
52:09
big podcast series around success right now.
52:13
And it's interesting because success looks different for so
52:16
many individuals and people define it differently.
52:19
And I think historically, when I was a little kid, I used to
52:22
think success was a destination. But what I make this amount of
52:25
money per year, when I make it to this level, when I get to
52:28
work with this person or this athlete, when I have this
52:31
certification in these letters, then I'm successful.
52:34
When in reality, I think our success is much more about the
52:39
journey in the process along that Ave. than it is the actual
52:44
end destination. Because at the end of the day, I
52:47
This is probably a hot take, but I think we in the space are more
52:52
like Sisyphus than we want to admit.
52:54
We're always pushing that rock up the hill and we think that
52:58
someday it's just going to stop moving and we're just going to
53:00
be able to be free and go do whatever we want to do.
53:03
But I think ultimately you need to keep pushing the rock.
53:07
I think people will misunderstand the and that the
53:10
goal is to continue pushing the rock as far as you can as long
53:14
as you can. It's not a stop pushing, it's to
53:17
keep pushing. So for me, I don't really see
53:20
any timeline of success. I see it as a never ending
53:25
continuous process as far as how far or how high can you push
53:31
that metaphorical rock of success compared to maybe other
53:35
versions of yourself, right? Like, hey, you know, if I didn't
53:38
do XY and Z and I just sat on the couch and flipped the TV on
53:44
and, you know, fall, you know, fall into the Xbox, PlayStation
53:47
kind of thing and give 6 to 8 hours a day to that, whatever.
53:50
That way. Like would that version of
53:52
myself still get to the same level?
53:54
Or does that discipline and the regiment and schedule that I
53:58
have actually pay dividends? So I, I think success is never
54:02
ending. It's ever evolving.
54:04
But your ability to just continue to press onwards
54:08
through adversity and enjoyed the journey that occurs as a
54:11
result of that dictates your success at the end of the day.
54:14
I love I love that that analogy you went to it with pushing the
54:18
rock because it's like I I feel like as I think to my life, the
54:21
periods that I enjoy most and then most purposeful or are when
54:26
I look forward to the next day of work and want to go push that
54:32
rock, right? I want to go approach that
54:34
process each day versus man, I just want to, you know, get
54:37
through this week and get to the the weekend so I can, you know,
54:40
have a have a break from whatever it is like that.
54:43
That's not purposeful to me. It's like when you want every
54:46
day and you want, even though it is work, you want to push that
54:50
like choosing that rock where you can find that.
54:53
I think that's that's where success is because like just it
54:55
goes back to like we talked before with evaluating and
54:58
return to play, like having that set timeline versus assessing
55:02
throughout. It's like just having that one
55:04
period, like it's that's not really going to happen.
55:07
Like like you're saying it once. If you ever got to that point,
55:10
you're going to just have another rock to keep pushing and
55:12
you find another rock. It's like we've got to find
55:14
where we can make that daily journey purposeful and something
55:18
we want to have. I think like you're saying, I
55:20
think that's real success is wanting each day.
55:22
Absolutely. And then from there, having a
55:25
little bit more control over your day, right?
55:28
So you're going to wake up and you're going to push the rock
55:30
every single day, but some days you might push it harder and
55:33
faster than others, and some days it might move a little bit
55:37
slower, but you're constantly moving forward.
55:39
And I think being able to have the ability to distinguish when
55:44
those days are instead of every day, it's the same pace, it's
55:47
the same thing over and over again.
55:49
I think that goes a long way as well.
55:51
Yeah, but then this this has been an awesome conversation.
55:54
You know, I think that's a really cool way to close it and,
55:57
and it really got me thinking about things.
55:58
If people wanted to check out your podcast or check out more
56:02
of the impact, like you're saying you're scaling your
56:04
impact of, of what you're doing, where, where could they go to
56:07
check that out? Yeah, if you go to your favorite
56:09
podcast platform, Spotify, Apple, whatever, just type in
56:13
Braun, Braun Performance and Rehab and it should pop up.
56:17
And Instagram, that's probably where I'm most active.
56:20
Just type in Braun under score PR and it should pop up there as
56:25
well. Awesome man.
56:26
Well again, I appreciate you have being on here.
56:28
It was great to reconnect with you.
56:30
John, this is an incredible conversation.
56:32
I really appreciate appreciate your time and everything you do
56:35
from the podcast to the book to your work as a coach and beyond
56:38
that way, man, you're doing great stuff and I'm really
56:40
appreciative of the work that you're doing, man.
56:42
Thank you, Dan.