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Aetheric Magic with Ike Baker · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What a.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Occult Rejects.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: This episode we got a returning guest, a fan favorite
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: and an Occult reject favorite. We got a bigger with
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: us tonight before. But before we introduce him, let me
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: introduce the other rejects. We got Judith the Loon back
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: on again second time today.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Judith, how are you?
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
• 0:44
  Speaker 5: I'm excited about today's episode, the second episode today, and
• 0:51
  Speaker 5: you could catch me at the Loon on YouTube and
• 0:54
  Speaker 5: on x.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Liwesome, Thank you so much.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: And I figured this might be a little bit more
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: up your allity, kind of Golden dorn Is style stuff
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: with Ike.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: You know, so hopefully it should be fun and my man,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: gin what is going on? So how are you?
• 1:07
  Speaker 6: What is a boss? Mister ninety three? So thank you
• 1:11
  Speaker 6: so much. Shout out to Ike. Obviously he is a
• 1:14
  Speaker 6: guest tonight. But we just did an episode, so it's
• 1:17
  Speaker 6: not it's not ready, but in a few in a
• 1:20
  Speaker 6: couple of weeks, it will be.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: So episode eighty eight, lookout for that.
• 1:22
  Speaker 7: Oh nice, Well you got ninety three, so yeah, you know,
• 1:26
  Speaker 7: I really gets their magic number.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So but first.
• 1:30
  Speaker 6: Before that, I'm dropping two episodes with Saschke. I've I've
• 1:34
  Speaker 6: chromoted it before it's happening. It was like an eight
• 1:37
  Speaker 6: hour recording. It took me like several days to edit
• 1:40
  Speaker 6: and sort of work through figure out what was going
• 1:42
  Speaker 6: to go on with that. But that's going to be
• 1:43
  Speaker 6: really cool. I think talking about AI and cabbala and
• 1:47
  Speaker 6: crystals and crystals as in crystal quantum computing, not crystals
• 1:52
  Speaker 6: as in uh, you know, collecting magic rocks, but maybe
• 1:55
  Speaker 6: a different kind of magic rock. So if you're interested
• 1:57
  Speaker 6: in those kinds of things, check me out thresholds Apple, Spotify,
• 2:01
  Speaker 6: and of course my subsac threshold Saints dot substack dot com.
• 2:04
  Speaker 6: You can follow me on ex Twitter at wucom reborn
• 2:07
  Speaker 6: w ukog reborn. Of course you can follow us at
• 2:10
  Speaker 6: The Gray Lodge at the True Gray Lodge dot com,
• 2:12
  Speaker 6: of which Matt Murra is our webmaster and our our
• 2:16
  Speaker 6: YouTube social media coordinator, so obviously like and subscribe to
• 2:20
  Speaker 6: our YouTube channel as well.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: And we talk about.
• 2:24
  Speaker 6: Pretty much metamagic medica, speculative cabala, speculative, keli chakra, and
• 2:29
  Speaker 6: speculative nascissism and our next episode will be on February thirteenth,
• 2:33
  Speaker 6: will as the cause of fire and exposition on Gnostic
• 2:36
  Speaker 6: Seth Seth non set Seth. So thank you guys so much,
• 2:40
  Speaker 6: appreciate it and really looking forward to it.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thank you Jen. Thank you for everything you
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: do too out there. Appreciate it. And my man Brandon,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: what's going on, sir.
• 2:49
  Speaker 8: Sup Nick, Hello everyone out there, Welcome to the col Rejects.
• 2:54
  Speaker 8: This is gonna be great. I love Mike Baker, I
• 2:57
  Speaker 8: listening to him talk about his deep knowledge of things,
• 2:59
  Speaker 8: and so I'm very excited about this evening. Make sure
• 3:02
  Speaker 8: everyone goes over to Magas and the media on YouTube,
• 3:05
  Speaker 8: where I will always tell you we are looking for
• 3:08
  Speaker 8: the myth, the meaning, and the magic and the mundane
• 3:11
  Speaker 8: in this strange and crazy world. Also check out my
• 3:13
  Speaker 8: ex where there's a lot of people who need to
• 3:17
  Speaker 8: be laid the SmackDown on them these days, as well
• 3:20
  Speaker 8: as go over to the Instagram because this is where
• 3:23
  Speaker 8: the discourse is happening. Let's do it.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you very much, sir, I always appreciate you joining us. Brandon,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: and last for a lot at least, my man Matt Moore.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: What is going on, sir? How are you? Thank you
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: for making it? It must be like ridiculously late. It's on
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: too for you.
• 3:38
  Speaker 9: What is It's nine pm now so it's not that
• 3:42
  Speaker 9: Oh really yeah, the members right now.
• 3:45
  Speaker 8: So.
• 3:47
  Speaker 10: Very glad to be here.
• 3:48
  Speaker 9: It's always really good to speak with all of you,
• 3:50
  Speaker 9: and also with Pike, which.
• 3:52
  Speaker 10: Is coming more often now.
• 3:55
  Speaker 9: And yeah, I mean you can always find me on
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  Speaker 9: all my socials, like I say, at my burn nineteen
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  Speaker 9: that's going to be Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram YouTube, maybe
• 4:04
  Speaker 9: some other place.
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  Speaker 10: And today I'm not going to promote my Camalo website,
• 4:09
  Speaker 10: which you all know, but I'm promoting a new project
• 4:12
  Speaker 10: being worked on which is called gam MoU So it's
• 4:16
  Speaker 10: going to be an esoteric platform. I'm really fucking, super
• 4:20
  Speaker 10: extra mega excited to do it. And you can actually
• 4:25
  Speaker 10: join the waiting list in enter gamu dot com. That's
• 4:29
  Speaker 10: g A M Enter g a M dot com. You
• 4:32
  Speaker 10: can join the wait list there and when it's ready
• 4:34
  Speaker 10: should be pretty quickly, at least the basics of it,
• 4:37
  Speaker 10: you're going to get modified. So yeah, let's see liesome.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much, man, and I'm really glad that
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: you were able to make it. And uh, finally, to
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: the guest himself, Iike, please let everybody know what you
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: deal is. Whatever you want to plug where they can
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: find your work, please let them know.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: Thanks. I'm really happy to be back on with you guys.
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: This is always a lot of fun. My third time
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  Speaker 4: on probably in like I don't know, like a month
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  Speaker 4: and a half.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sorry, but no.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: It's awesome. I love this. The format that you have
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: here is really unique amongst you know, while I should
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: say successful podcasts and occultism and esotericism and magic and
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: all that stuff, you just get a bunch of people
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: in the room and or really in their own separate
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: rooms and then bring them together and just let the
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: sparks fly. So it's a lot of fun. I'm glad
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: to be here. I am Mike Baker. I am a
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  Speaker 4: man of many affiliations. I run the Hermetic Order of
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: the Golden Dawn Temple in North Carolina out of Asheville,
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: a free Masonic historian. I wrote A Formless Fire in
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, which is about the history, theory, and
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: practice of the Western esoteric traditions from antiquity until about
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: the nineteenth and early early twentieth century. The book we're
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: gonna talk about tonight I wrote in twenty twenty five.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: I published it with Lou Ellen. It's called Etheric Magic,
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: and uh, I'm really excited to talk about that and
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: and everything else. Anybody wants to find out more about
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: the podcast and the YouTube channel that I run and
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: host ar kanam A R C A n v M,
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: you can check it out at my website, Ike Baker
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  Speaker 4: dot com I K E B A K E R.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: I have got everything my blog, my podcast, my documentary
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: style presentations and what have you. So check that out
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: and I'm happy to be here.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Well yeah, well, thank you very much, said, I really
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: appreciate you coming on. And if people haven't checked out
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: his stuff, if you're into this show because of the
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: you know, the deep dive, well not everything's always deep
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: dives anymore, but if you're into the in depth conversation
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: that we have on topics, definitely go check out his channel.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: He goes fall beyond what we talk about, so he's
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: got a plethora of, you know, definitely intense stuff to
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: listen to. My opinion, So Hike, thank you very much
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: for joining us. And yes, the book Etheric magic. First
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: question I wanted to ask you is what I guess,
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: what would etheric magic mean to you?
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: Well, it's right out of the gate. It's a confusing
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: term for most people. But so my primary goal in
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  Speaker 4: the beginning of the book, at the outset of the
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: book is to define my terms. I find generally that
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  Speaker 4: in magic and the occult, and increasingly outside of it,
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  Speaker 4: we're using words. We have a common vernacular, but we're
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  Speaker 4: defining these things. There's different shades of meaning depending on
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  Speaker 4: the person and the community that they came up in.
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  Speaker 4: For instance, a lot of people might think I'm talking
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  Speaker 4: about the Enochi and ethers when I talk about etheric magic, right,
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  Speaker 4: But that's not what I mean to really discuss. I
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  Speaker 4: based it off of the really Platonic traditions word for
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  Speaker 4: the fifth element, which was ethira okay, and it basically,
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  Speaker 4: you know, it contained other elements. It was a you know,
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  Speaker 4: a quintessence of sorts. So I wanted to systematize that
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  Speaker 4: term because we don't really have a satisfactory term for
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  Speaker 4: that in the West, right. And we'll go into into this,
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  Speaker 4: you know, obviously I talked about how i'm I'm in
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  Speaker 4: the Western esoteric traditions. But I went to school for
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: Chinese medicine and acupuncture, and you know, I studied meridian theory.
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  Speaker 4: I studied chigung privately and in school, and so I
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: I have a lot of experience on both sides of
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  Speaker 4: the fence. And what I saw was that in the
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  Speaker 4: Eastern systems there was a much more developed and systematized
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  Speaker 4: body of energy work, okay, and they had discrete terms
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  Speaker 4: for it like chi, prana, uh so on so forth,
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  Speaker 4: key in, you know, in the Japanese tradition, ray key,
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  Speaker 4: So they had terms that right in anglophone languages, it's
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  Speaker 4: kind of like, you know, words are a little bit
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  Speaker 4: more specific. There's there's less there's less of a broader interpretation.
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  Speaker 4: And for instance, the word chi or let's say the
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  Speaker 4: pictograph for chi uh in in in in Chinese, is
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  Speaker 4: it actually resembles It's supposed to be the vapor rising
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  Speaker 4: off of a pot of rice uh and this is
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  Speaker 4: supposed to communicate breath vapor. But it's also, as we know,
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  Speaker 4: universal life force energy. It's also used to describe something's
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: inherent nature. So you say, why does why does water
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  Speaker 4: flow downhill? And Daoist would say that is its chi,
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  Speaker 4: that is its nature. So there's all these You know,
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  Speaker 4: there's this wonderful way of communicating in other languages, but
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: in anglophone languages we strive for precision, and especially in
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: discourses like this. I wanted to facilitate that in the
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: In the the Western tradition, we have the term energy
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  Speaker 4: work right, that is that's extremely vague. I wouldn't even
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: say that it's broad. I would say that it's vague
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: because if you go and look at the scientific definition
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  Speaker 4: of energy, the definition is the ability to do work,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: which effectively tells me what we're working about it. So
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: I don't know, is it really energy? I can't say,
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: because I'm not a scientist my area of expertise is
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  Speaker 4: in this stuff. But I will say that it's it's
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  Speaker 4: best characterized as a radiant luminosity, this ether, this quintessence,
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  Speaker 4: this chi that runs through and around the organism that
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: we we have no choice but to talk about in
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: terms of energy because it's the way that most people
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: are going to be able to grasp onto this in
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: the Western system. So ether is is my term in
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: an attempt to systematize a definition for this universal life
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: force energy specifically in this Western context.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: I actually fell into the whole thing of thinking it
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: might have been a Nokia magic myself when I first
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: heard the name of the book, and then I was.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know, let me go check before I
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: just assume. And I was like, ah, it's not so yeah, yeah, no, I.
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: Mean, I'm not going to teach people how to describe
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: the ethers I took.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: That's actually I was kind of surprise. I was like,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I was actually surprised you would have put that out.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: I can't do that.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I take oaths. Yeah, so good for you, man, Good
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: go ahead.
• 11:54
  Speaker 8: Yeah. Do you think then that see in the more
• 11:57
  Speaker 8: of the Chigung's sense, when you speak to Chigung masters
• 11:59
  Speaker 8: and Kungo guys, they talk about the bioelectric body, right,
• 12:03
  Speaker 8: and so could you then superimpose a very similar for
• 12:08
  Speaker 8: idea of ether with like it's a bioelectric field that
• 12:11
  Speaker 8: moves through all things.
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  Speaker 2: You know.
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: The thing is that in terms of Chiegong and Daoist masters,
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: that's a very very new thing to call it that, right,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: because we for for the millennia that they had this tradition,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: they didn't know about bio bioluminosity or bioelectricity. I talk
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: about it, I try and talk about it. I would
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: say that there's there's various shades of density of energy.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: Energy is all. It's all the same thing. It's just
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: depending on its state of vibration, it has different ways
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: of interacting with itself and other things. Right, So like
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: it can be electricity or it can be magnetism, depending
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: on what end of the spectrum it's on. Right, we
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: call that electromagnetic spectrum. So, but it's it's all. It's
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: all energy, which we really we have hard time defining
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: outside of light vibrating at various rates, mostly very very fast.
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  Speaker 4: So I would say radiant luminosity is a good way
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: to conceive of this because it's it's it's somewhere, it's
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: slightly subtler. It's related to it's in that that band,
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: that broad band spectrum. But it's it's different than electro
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: magnetic field. And I'll tell you why. It's it obeys
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: your mind. She obeyed your mind. This is how we're
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: able to move it. Right, How I was saying, is
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: where the mind goes, the chi flows.
• 13:44
  Speaker 8: Yeah, move the chi.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: You gotta link that up. You got to link that
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: up you. Most people don't have a firm, established working
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: understanding and that immediate relationship to their to their radiant boss.
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: It's kind of like teaching a like an atrophied limb,
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: where you like, you have an I have an arm
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: that wasn't aware I even had. Now I have to
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: kind of get it to move and work out my
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: motor my fine motor skills and things like this. You know,
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: that's the case with linking up your conscious mind to
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: the what will be latent and impressionable etheric fields.
• 14:27
  Speaker 10: Right.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: So I refer to that in the book as a
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: lesser conjunction of Saul and Luna. So I couch the
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: entire thing. I couch the entire thing in the the
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: the allegories, formulas and terms of alchemy, because ultimately Chi
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: Gung Tichi, all of this stuff comes out of Nadan,
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: which is Daoist internal alchemy, and they have a very
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: very interesting and similar system to us. But they they're
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: they're textual tradition. Is it's difficult for Westerners, but it's
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: there's more. There's more there that can be readily understood
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: I think by people native to the culture who are
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: involved in that whereas like alchemy is a total Western
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: alchemy is a totally different thing in terms of the
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: textual tradition. I had a conversation with the alchemist Phoenix Aurelius,
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: and we were talking about the Western alchemical textual tradition,
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: and I think we referred to it as like a
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: fever dream forest. You know, it's like it's just all
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: these strange allegories and images and and everybody thinks that
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: they have the answer, you know, this is what this
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: key means. That really it's it's all dependent on where
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: and when this this stuff was written. Whereas there's a
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: little bit more systematization because there's an there's a protected
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: tradition in the East of internal alchemy that manifests things
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: like chigong and taichi and even and especially a lot
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: of people don't realize is it's like the other side
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: of the coin of martial arts. Like you, martial arts
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: and and and and chigong are linked inextricably, you know
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: in the East.
• 16:18
  Speaker 8: Yeah, no, that's fascinating. When I found out a long
• 16:21
  Speaker 8: time ago that, like U, there's thirteen main postures in taichi.
• 16:25
  Speaker 8: I don't remember if I was telling you this, but
• 16:27
  Speaker 8: The idea is that it links up the the eight
• 16:30
  Speaker 8: Trigrams of Baguah with the five elements of Chinese medicine.
• 16:34
  Speaker 8: So you get this beautiful mixing of the Taoists with
• 16:37
  Speaker 8: the Buddhists, and then you get it in this one
• 16:39
  Speaker 8: grand ultimate system, which is what Taichi means. It's amazing.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah. The the the reliance on the simple system of
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: the Bagua the eight Trigrams is so sophisticated and elegant.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: It's also ancient that it's there's no way I tried
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: my best, but there's no way I could I could
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: match that in terms of what I described in the
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: book in Ethoreic Magic. Luckily, I am releasing another book
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: this year within an tradition called Esoteric Mythology, where I
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: do take people through the Bagua the Trigrams and talk
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: about Dais cosmology. So you know, I like to look
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: at I like to think of my body of work
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: as all related. You know, if you if you get
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: it doesn't matter if they're on slightly different topics, they
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: all they fill each other in. They kind of you know,
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: complete the profile.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:33
  Speaker 8: Nice, I will say for everyone out there listening, Bena Bell,
• 17:35
  Speaker 8: when I Believe is her name. She has put out
• 17:38
  Speaker 8: fantastic work in the eaching and the Daoist Yeah.
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: Second, I'll second that. Brandon gend Well, I'm very familiar
• 17:45
  Speaker 6: with Daois. I'm just like we Nick and I interviewed
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: a Daoist priest from Cambodia, Chinese Cambodian. But like, yeah,
• 17:53
  Speaker 6: I grew I grew up around DAOs on my whole life,
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: like I've I mean, I lived in Hong Kong, I've
• 17:57
  Speaker 6: been around it. It's not like something totally bargn to me,
• 18:00
  Speaker 6: like what I say, I'm a Taoist or no that
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: much textually no, but.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Am I comfortable culturally with it? Yes?
• 18:07
  Speaker 6: And so like Benabel, it's very similar to Kabala. Actually,
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: you're supposed to translate your own version of eaching when
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: you turn forty, and so she did that from like
• 18:17
  Speaker 6: Mandarin into English. And she also did that from you
• 18:21
  Speaker 6: have to come up excuse me, you have to come
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: up with your own definitions basically, but they have to
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: refer to the class culture tradition. So it's a scholarly endeavor.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: And she did that.
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: So that's a very impressive just undertaking as a sort
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: of like a Taoist magician or a Dauscher or whatever
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: you want to call it.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Though for sure.
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: It's very impressive and I and I think she would
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: be a great guest, and I've reached out her. Yeah,
• 18:46
  Speaker 6: so shout out to Bennabella if she wants to come on,
• 18:48
  Speaker 6: Come on.
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: Annabel Is bene Bell was formative for a lot of
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: the stuff that I did. She was the first and
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: I talk about her a lot on my shows, and
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: the forward right for you, I have to know she
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: did the forward. But Benebel was the first person to
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: read Etheric Magic because I had been talking back and forth.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: We had been other than my editor, but I had
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: been I had been going back and forth with Bennabel
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: for months about uh, this kind of stuff. She didn't
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: really know, she didn't see the full picture until I
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: sent her the the the proof, the unedited, the uncorrected
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: proof for for her to offer a blurb. And the
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: response I got from her made me well up with tears.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: She said, you know, it's uh, she said it was.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: She thought it was unbelievable and and she she she
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: did give a very good blurb. So but the thing,
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: the key thing, and I mentioned her work, I cite
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: her work. I talk about her in the book. Is
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: that for me, there is no scholar at the crossroads
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: of esoteric philosophy and practice in any tradition that is
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: doing it the way she is. So yeah, she somebody
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: of the highest caliber. I hope you guys get her
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: on the show and if she's here, tell her.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: I said, hello, nice, nice, Yeah, Oh I saw how
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: day pop up when I was looking at your book
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: and stuff.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: One thing I did want to ask, I guess like
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: I had, I've had a guy on Cole Lee on
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Southgate and he was like somebody who I think reduplicated
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Wilhelm Reich's experiment with oregon, and sometimes he would kind
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: of like go kind of consider that like almost like ether,
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: and like so like do you think that's he will
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: look at it that it's like kind of like everything
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: around this and it's everywhere.
• 20:35
  Speaker 8: Is that?
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: Here's the thing is this. It was first discovered in
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: the West in a major way at a time where
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: like science was burgeoning, right, So really the first person
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: to really do it and it exploded was Franz Anton Mesmer. Okay,
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: he was the first one.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: He wrote.
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: He has a memoir that he wrote very thin, very readable.
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: It's called the disc on the Discovery of Animal Magnetism.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: He was calling it electromagnetism, but really he called it
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: was more so magnetic than it was electric.
• 21:13
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: And he would he was a physician, and what he
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: would do is he would do these things called like
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: magnetic or mesmeric passes. He essentially render them in a
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: state of what he called somnambulism. Okay, this is very
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: It's the word that you see constantly in the work
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: of you know, Crowley era stuff. The Theosophical Society used
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: that word, the somnambulistic state. He he effectively coined this
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: word and write, somnambulism means you're asleep but walking around
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: like you're able to move, but you're asleep. So Franz
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: Anton Mesmer discovered hypnotism. In the West, it used to
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: be called mesmerism. Now we don't call it that anymore,
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: but it's still there's vestiges of it in our vernacular.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: When you say, oh, he was mesmerized by that, I
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: was mesmerized by this, just like transfixed.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: So initially that science that that technique was called mesmerism.
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: To put somebody in a trance using magnetic passes.
• 22:18
  Speaker 8: It really really.
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: Developed with people like Alankar dec Ellie fuss Levy was
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: huge on it. He considered what Mesmer found to be
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: what he called the azolt, the magical agent. He said,
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: this is what makes magic work right. And elifas lev
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: he's not he wasn't a guy that really he It's
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: very typical of the French style, even to the to
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: the modern day, or at least into the twentieth century.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: It's like this strange wordplay. I don't know if it's
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: something to do with their language, but they conceal more
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: than they reveal. And it's so you're sitting there the
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: whole time and there's this kind of like tension that
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: builds up. Right, it's just feel like too much foreplay,
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: you know. But there's this one particular tract, this very
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: thin treatise that I found in New York City on
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: Fourteenth Street in a bookshop called Namasta Books by Union Square.
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: This was years ago, still there, bookstore is still there.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: Little track translated by Arthur Edward Waite. It's called the
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: Science of Hermes And in this I don't know, thirty
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: forty page little booklet, eliphas Levy is explicit for the
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: very first time. He's hyped up this whole thing with
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: at the magical agent and the the twin serpents of
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: the astrolite. He's speaking about it symbolically and be careful.
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: It can devour you, it can lead you to your death.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: But it's the operative agent of magic. So in this
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: treatise he defines it and he says, as off, the
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: great magical agent is nothing less than magnetized electricity. So
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: this is, uh, this is what at this time period,
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: this is what they were grafting things. They were they
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: were trying to make it fit with the scientific vernacular. Now,
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: I studied, you know, chief theory in in in college,
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: and even still they're trying to figure it out. They
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: don't know that it's uh, electromagnetic, they don't know that
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: it's bio, that it's related to bioluminosity. There are if
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: you read uh, I forget the name of the book.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: I have it right here on my shelf, but I
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: don't want to get up and be rude.
• 24:34
  Speaker 10: Uh.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: There's a book.
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: That I'll get in a minute, and it talks about
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: how research was done to show how the she meridians
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: run along fashion lines in the body. They run almost
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: exactly with the lines of fascia, the connective tissue throughout
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: the body. So so we're still trying to figure it out.
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: But for for for a magician's purposes, it's it's it's
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: not that it's it's unimportant to know. It's not enough
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: to know. It's not enough to know what this is.
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: You have to work with it. You have to work
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: and don't be so convinced that you must put it
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: in this little box, because at the end of the day,
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: who gives a shit? If it works, use it, use it.
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: You will develop a much more intimate relationship with this
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: if you use it rather than try and explain it scientifically.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: But I get it, you know, in the modern West,
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: that's the way our brains are hardwired. We've got all
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: this programming telling us we have to find a scientific
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: way to describe this and something rooted in materialism so
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: that I can feel good about it and I don't
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: have to sound crazy. Meantime, you're pranting around in robes.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: You know, at this point, who gives a shit?
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: Well, even the guy who comes on my show that
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: I've I don't know a few times about this stuff.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: I still think he's even like lost to a sense
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: of like what the fuck he's even playing with. But
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: like what I was getting at is like, do you
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: think this is something like it's some sort of like
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: I guess obviously with the book, I'm looking at it
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: as like some sort of energy that's like within everything,
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: maybe around this and we can actually tap into it
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: and manipulate in a movie, or you don't move it
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: to our will.
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: Maybe, Yeah, And I talk about it in terms of right,
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: and I said that I don't like to talk in
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: scientific verbiage, but I'm gonna utilize this here because I
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: talk about it in the book. So the idea of
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: the luminiferous ether that uh Tesla Nicola Tesla positive really
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: made popular, he said. And this is very Rosy Krushian actually,
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: because the Rossi, one of the main Rosi Crucian maxims
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: is nic wa kwam vakum, right, that's out of the
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Fama fraternity. Tant is nowhere avoid, There is nowhere avoid.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: And so this idea that light travels these empty expanses
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: was unt pennible. The light from the Sun passing through
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: the vacuum of space that's an untenable idea in that framework.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: So what he really conceived of and there's there's there's problems.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: There's still problems, and they don't teach you this, but
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: there's still issues like how light is able to refract
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: through like a glass, you know, not ali like a prism,
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: like a water glass. That there's all sorts of problems
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: with the way that we conceive of of the of
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: light and it's it's traveling. But the thing is it's
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: couched in such esoteric scientific language. It sounds very attractive,
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: and meantime, nobody knows what the hell it really means
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: unless you've gone through that that priesthood training of you know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: become the new priesthood of you know, this academic sort
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: of uh scientifistic uh training. But they the luminiferous ether
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: basically says that there is no void, there is no vacuum,
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: that there is this this field. It's a field that
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: is almost an empty fullness, and it contains everything inside
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: of that field. And when things travel or appear to travel,
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: what's really happening is that this field, which is latent
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: until it has acted upon, is stimulated to produce a
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: form of light. You know, which can be color, which
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: can be you know, just plain light. So it's all
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: about stimulation of the ether. And this is effectively, Yeah,
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: this is how we understand the personal etheric field to work.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: That's how magicians do it. They tap into it with
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: the mind and they pull forth from it, They extract
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: forth from it what it is they need, whatever their
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: purposes are. Now we have a sophisticated languaging around this
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: which seems kind of goofy, but earth, air, fire, water,
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: the seven classical planets, and the twelve signs of the zodiac,
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: all of those things right there right if you're going
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: based off of the Seffroyette era, they embody, they embody
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: all of the creative potencies of the cosmos. So it's
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: it's it seems like simplistic, but really what we're doing
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: is we have our own sort of you know, ideograms,
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: these these images that are associated with the whole continuity
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: of ideas that we use in order to induce these
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: things in our own personal etheric field that we call
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: the sphere of sensation. So yes, I would say completely,
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: it is this thing that is everywhere. It's as you know,
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: I love to quote Yoda buddy. He basically it's the
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: same thing as the force. It truly, truly is you know.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: And it's just so interesting to me that the path
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: of the Jedi was to learn how to use this force.
• 29:49
  Speaker 8: You know.
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: It's very very interesting.
• 29:51
  Speaker 8: Yeah, no, it's fascinating. Yeah, and people should know that.
• 29:55
  Speaker 8: Somebody put it in the chat, so they're really smart.
• 29:57
  Speaker 8: Body Electric by Robert Becker is is amazing for breaking
• 30:02
  Speaker 8: all that ideas down. It's just yeah, exactly, it's fascinating.
• 30:07
  Speaker 8: So going from the living organism into it and at
• 30:09
  Speaker 8: the very end proving how you can regenerate limbs by
• 30:12
  Speaker 8: understanding your that a boy understanding. Uh not, Oh, that's
• 30:16
  Speaker 8: a good book.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: So that I just just not to interrupt you, but
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: this is this was the book I was talking about.
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: It's called The Spark in the Machine. Yeah, so, uh,
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: doctor Daniel keone, this is the book that I was
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: talking about with some of that. Uh. The subtitle is
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: how the Science of Acupuncture Explains the Mysteries of Western Medicine.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: This is an invaluable book. I recommend it.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, you know, it's interesting to think about it.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Me and Judith had a mutual friend that was into
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: acupunctutuity was in the oto with us.
• 30:56
  Speaker 8: I mean, I think it's most important is do kung
• 30:59
  Speaker 8: fu and do magic, right, I mean it's like why
• 31:02
  Speaker 8: not be a warrior magician in this world? And I
• 31:04
  Speaker 8: think it's It's something I'm continually talking about with people,
• 31:08
  Speaker 8: is it's like, why why not make your body into
• 31:12
  Speaker 8: exactly what you want it to be? Because it's a
• 31:14
  Speaker 8: body mind siyssogy, so you know, understand the body, understand
• 31:17
  Speaker 8: the mind.
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: Right, absolutely, absolutely, I mean that's the whole thing is,
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: Like you, there's things that happen to you and Brandon,
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: I think you and I talked about it when I
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: was on your podcast, but there are things that happened
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: to your to you somadically when you begin to train
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: in a system of martial arts that people would not assume, right.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: People think that you're going to get really kind of
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: clunky and kind of just very like you know, jerky
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: and your movements, and there is that in a certain
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: type of kung fu and a certain type of martial arts.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: But really what's going on is like you're you're actually
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: becoming gentler, Like you're learning how to move like a
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: like a swan. You know, like like a cat. You know,
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: you really are You're you're using your body in a
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: way that's very much like dance, and it's it's it
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: doesn't wait for you to be on the dance floor
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: like you're just you're living your life like that. So
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: that elegance and that flow contributes to the beauty and
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: the harmony of the soul as well, which inhabits the
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: body for a time.
• 32:21
  Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, And thus in the idea of kung fu, right,
• 32:24
  Speaker 8: it doesn't mean martial art, right, it means mastery through time,
• 32:28
  Speaker 8: which is a common misconception.
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the that's the interesting thing, right in like
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: chin Chinese culture, they call it wushu. They don't call
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: it kung fu. They can call anything that you've done
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: and acquired incredible skill. It could be like I could
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: be like sharpening pencils. That's if you've mastered it, that's
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: gung fu. You know, mastery really is gung fu, but
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: we use it as a generic term. They call it
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: wushu martial arts.
• 32:54
  Speaker 8: Yeah, and interesting enough, even good kung fu has gone underground,
• 32:57
  Speaker 8: and so there's a wushu has now become taken over
• 33:00
  Speaker 8: or buy the CCP and the operatic theatrics, and so
• 33:05
  Speaker 8: it's really fascinating. I trust me.
• 33:06
  Speaker 6: That's as someone you can as the wushu person growing up.
• 33:12
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, you know it is.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: It's sports.
• 33:15
  Speaker 6: Wushu is sports performance means like so sancho that is,
• 33:21
  Speaker 6: that's for physical contact, like that's what the army trains in.
• 33:25
  Speaker 6: But wushu is just for the is to preserve classical forms.
• 33:30
  Speaker 8: Well, there's a conspiracy out.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Because just.
• 33:35
  Speaker 6: As someone from the diaspora, Brandon, I'll just tell you
• 33:38
  Speaker 6: that people from Hong Kong, Indonesia, Singapore, Taiwan, we all
• 33:42
  Speaker 6: do wusho too as kids like my dad's. Yeah, I'm
• 33:46
  Speaker 6: just I'm just saying it's not just like a CCP
• 33:49
  Speaker 6: conspiracy that like someone might participate in their like cultural form, right.
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: I just want to say that because that would be
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: that would be kind of cool if if we start
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: talking about CCP conspiracy. Interesting left turn.
• 34:07
  Speaker 9: But I don't.
• 34:11
  Speaker 8: Speaking strictly out of my caboos.
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 34:14
  Speaker 8: There's a few teasers I have over in San Francisco,
• 34:16
  Speaker 8: Chucci Link being one of them is Master Hungar from
• 34:21
  Speaker 8: that family, and it's a there's an interesting differentiation and
• 34:24
  Speaker 8: I only connected due to the idea of kung fu
• 34:27
  Speaker 8: having to go underground because in many times in its
• 34:32
  Speaker 8: history because of its ability to topple governments.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Boxer rebellion really but but but that's that's that's
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: you know, that's really that is really interesting, this idea
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: of of of kung fu having to go underground, because
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: if you remember, right, and like I think I want
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: to say and and Jin can correct me, because I'm
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: again I'm a little out outside of my wheelhouse and
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: what I'm about to say, but uh, I think in
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: the nineteenth and eighteenth centuries, or maybe it's the nineteenth
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: and early twentieth centuries, martial arts became really to my understanding,
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: you became associated with secret societies.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, that's absolutely.
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: I mean it's it's been associated with the Triad since
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: the beginning of the Triad, and like it predates the
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: Boxer Rebellion because it actually relates to the Hawk what's
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: called the Hakka Punti Wars, and we won't get into this,
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: it's a series of ethnic conflicts in southern China. But
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: like Bagua was developed it as a court martial arts system,
• 35:33
  Speaker 6: like in the during the Qing dynasty, which is like
• 35:36
  Speaker 6: the last Manshu dynasty. Everybody's seen like the last Emperor
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: of China. So bagua was developed as like a bodyguard
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: system of self defense. So there's like a The thing
• 35:46
  Speaker 6: is is like Chinese martial arts is very varied, and
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: so after the Cultural Revolution they actually systematized it. So
• 35:53
  Speaker 6: then there's sport fighting which is called wusha as we
• 35:56
  Speaker 6: said wushu, and then there's full contact sport fighting which
• 35:59
  Speaker 6: is called san show, which includes.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: All the martial arts.
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: But they just they brought in like different people like
• 36:05
  Speaker 6: from se Lot, like a Screama from phil the Philippines,
• 36:10
  Speaker 6: Crave McGraw from like Israel because like China has a
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: defense agreement with Israeli. But like they brought in all
• 36:16
  Speaker 6: these people and they kind of systematized it with the
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: Chinese masters basically, and they said, what is going to
• 36:21
  Speaker 6: be the best full contact full contact thing. So you
• 36:25
  Speaker 6: can see a lot of post two thousand and one
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: Hong Kong films, like if you watch like I'm forgetting
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: his name now, I think his name is Jingly or yeah, Jingle,
• 36:36
  Speaker 6: I think Woijing Wuijing. I'm sorry, I couldn't remember, but
• 36:39
  Speaker 6: his his films are all sanchow fighting, So you're you're right, ike,
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: is that they're all interconnected, like it's all like part
• 36:47
  Speaker 6: of the PPA, like the People's Liberation Army, the PLA
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: or the triad. So you do see like a conflict,
• 36:53
  Speaker 6: but in general most people just differentiate, Like wushi is
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: just like systematized. It's for it's for competition, sport fighting,
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: and then sound shows like what the army does, and
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: then all the other martial arts.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: That's more of a diaspora thing.
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like is saying, and it's what's the way that
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: I kind of incorporate that into the book? Is actually right?
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: There are postures because that's just part of magic, it's
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: part of tigong, it's part of any kind of energy work.
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: But but the thing is I emphasize not certainly, not
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: to the exclusion of the magical. I mean there's a
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: I would say half the book is like exercises practices
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: specifically towards magic. But but I bring something into the
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: discussion that I don't see really covered in any depth
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: very often, and that is health because you can use
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: this stuff to heal yourself, others, et cetera, so on
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: and so forth. And I have training and I feel
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: like everybody does now. But I got a pretty early
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: training in ray key under Joanna Crespo at the Open
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: Center in New York City, probably over ten years ago now,
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: and she's fantastic.
• 38:09
  Speaker 9: Uh.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: And then yeah, that's that was right before I started
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: school for acupuncture and studying privately for chigong and martial arts.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: But that whole thing was about it's the way that
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: it's distilled now because this the Meridian theory, Dallist philosophy, Bagua,
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: martial arts, it's all part of this holistic philosophy. But
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: because and Bettebel talks about this a lot, there's there
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: are traditions of indigenous magic, which is I mean unbelievable,
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: unbelievable forms of magic. But the way that we really
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: inherit this stuff in the West is for health purposes.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: You go to school for acupuncture and you just so
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: happen to learn qigong. Chigong is also what they call,
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: you know, the fountain of life in terms or the
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: fountain of youth in terms of you know, these these
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: esoteric entergy work. So there's there's a strong emphasis in
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: this in health of the body, health of the mind,
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: health of the emotions, health of the soul and spirit,
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: and certainly the energetic body is not always healthy.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, I teach people in this book and so far,
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: I mean I've had an outstanding track record because I've
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: I've been all over the country. I've been to London,
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: I've been to California. I've been doing workshops out of
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: this book and teaching people, and it's I've done it
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: in Egypt. It's amazing to see someone's reaction the first
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: time that they see their energetic body, you know, the
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: the the you know, like, oh my god, it's real,
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: sot sort of thing and look around like, uh, can
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: you see that? So but but you can see this stuff,
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: and I do. There there is a it's it's not
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: imaginable there, there is an actual component of lights to this,
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: a radiant luminosity, and so you know, having worked on
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: this for for over a decade now, it's it's you know,
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: I'm able to see it pretty pretty immediately. You always
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: see pictures of people's auras, right, and how it's like
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: avoid egg shaped. I've probably seen two people in my
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: entire life that have a completely like fully developed, bounded
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: symmetrical aura. It's normally like it's patchy, it's splotchy, there
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: are holes.
• 40:26
  Speaker 10: You know.
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: And and so that is a big part of chigung
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: and in the and this is the last piece I'll
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: end on. In the Western tradition, particularly the Hellenistic tradition,
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: the tradition of of of Greco, Roman Egypt, and that
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: whole swathe. Their entire brand of theorgy, right, which is
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: magic applied to the development of the soul. Their entire
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: project was to perfect the luminous body, make it spherical,
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: make it whole, make it strong. So we do have
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: a tradition of this in the in the West, it's
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: just that you know, again, our textual basis is, i
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: would say, specifically regarding the luminous body as fairly sparse
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: and fragmentary. And there hasn't been a consistent tradition to
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: key right. That's that's the whole interesting thing about Woosho
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: is that it's built to to to transmit and preserve
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: forms like we don't.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: We don't have that, you know.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: The golden tawn is the closest thing we have to
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: It doesn't go all the way back, you know, it
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: goes back to eighteen eighty eight.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Uh so.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so, so that health component applies across the spectrum,
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: and the book has has plenty of that as regards
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: the the you know, the the etheric field and the
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: personal etheric body of the practitioner.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:50
  Speaker 8: I then have a question, what do you have you
• 41:52
  Speaker 8: heard Damian Knuckles talk about because I listened to a
• 41:55
  Speaker 8: lot of his podcasts for a while, But he spoke
• 41:58
  Speaker 8: about how the oor around the body when what we're
• 42:01
  Speaker 8: trying to do when perfected, obviously a tough word is
• 42:05
  Speaker 8: it's the concentric circles of the great chain of being.
• 42:08
  Speaker 8: That image from way back in the day, back in
• 42:10
  Speaker 8: the ancient texts, you know, which when I'm talking about
• 42:12
  Speaker 8: I can't. But anyway, what do you think about that?
• 42:15
  Speaker 8: For what he was saying about that.
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Damien's on point, man, because he lives
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: it too. I talked Damien regularly. He actually was he
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: he was one of the first people to really give
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: my book props and and kind of talk about it
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: for his audience and stuff, and so we were going
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: back and forth on that for a little while. And Jamien,
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: you know, he really knows his stuff because he's somebody
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: I think we're very akin in in one very specific
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: way is that like whatever we do, we're going to
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: do it to death, and like it's all about immersion
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: and it's all about living it. I do not want
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: to come on here and talk and say all these
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: fancy words if I can't actually do this shit. And
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: very much so he's like that, so he definitely knows
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: what he's talking about. Now. Currently, I'm working on a system.
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: I'm working on a on a follow up, a sequel
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: to Etheric Magic. It's called the title is tentatively called
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: the Luminous Body, and it's going to get into the
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: more advanced and esoteric practices. Etheric Magic was an introduction
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: to get people working, and you have every tool in
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: that book to develop your skill to the point where
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: you'd be ready for this this this second installment. But
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: I'm I'm working on a system that utilizes those concentric
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: spheres instead of say something like the catalistic tree of life,
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: which that's what I had to use for the first book,
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: because that's what a lot of Western magicians. Now, I
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: use the verbiage of alchemy and the and the tree
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: of life, and we can, you know, if we have time,
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: we can get into that tonight too, and give people
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: a little bit of an overview of the the nuts
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: and bolts.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Nice. Nice. One thing I did want to ask that
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: I noticed one thing I may oh, go ahead, go ahead,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: go ahead.
• 44:05
  Speaker 10: I'm gonna say one thing I want to add here.
• 44:07
  Speaker 9: Like a lot of points make good points, but one
• 44:09
  Speaker 9: thing maybe nic to see as well as Again, we
• 44:13
  Speaker 9: are always talking about the body itself, right, like all
• 44:16
  Speaker 9: the magic, all everything is like from the inside, not
• 44:18
  Speaker 9: necessarily the physical body, it can be as well, but
• 44:21
  Speaker 9: the actual body. And it's interesting to see. For example,
• 44:26
  Speaker 9: when you go into uh you were talking about Kardak
• 44:29
  Speaker 9: from Mesmer, like Kardak and so on. In spiritism, they're
• 44:33
  Speaker 9: going to talk about ectoplasm. So again this idea that
• 44:35
  Speaker 9: you kind of have this energy that the people from
• 44:39
  Speaker 9: the outside, you know, the spirits or whatever, they need
• 44:41
  Speaker 9: this ectoplasm to do stuff here, to like do the
• 44:44
  Speaker 9: pultry guys stuff or two even like interact and to
• 44:46
  Speaker 9: kind of keep your ravagants. One then you go into
• 44:49
  Speaker 9: the Alaska traditions, and well, first of all, it's funny
• 44:53
  Speaker 9: you were talking about star wars. They call it the strength.
• 44:56
  Speaker 9: In Aluaska they call the state that you get the
• 44:59
  Speaker 9: strength like in Portees Forsa. So again that's very funny already.
• 45:03
  Speaker 9: But they also say because it kind of relates, at
• 45:06
  Speaker 9: least nowadays with a bit of like umbanda and this
• 45:09
  Speaker 9: kind of things. They always talk about like opening paths.
• 45:12
  Speaker 9: So opening paths, opening paths. And I was in a
• 45:16
  Speaker 9: session like a ritual these these past days, and I
• 45:20
  Speaker 9: had this in my mind that where we're talking about paths,
• 45:23
  Speaker 9: like literal paths in the body, like we're literally talking
• 45:25
  Speaker 9: about the endctrine system in the body. That's what's being opened.
• 45:29
  Speaker 9: It's not some mystical you know, some some doors like
• 45:32
  Speaker 9: that's literally it, or like the neuropaths in the brain,
• 45:35
  Speaker 9: and so and so again. So I was talking about
• 45:38
  Speaker 9: this energy of the of the body. And you can
• 45:40
  Speaker 9: feel with the when you are in the in the state,
• 45:44
  Speaker 9: let's say, of the ententogen you can literally you can
• 45:47
  Speaker 9: feel it's kind of like a kickstart, right. You can
• 45:49
  Speaker 9: obviously do it with all the practices like what probably
• 45:52
  Speaker 9: there's all over like book, but with the thing, you
• 45:55
  Speaker 9: just have like a kickstart and you are able to
• 45:57
  Speaker 9: see it, to feel it to whatever, and it's just
• 46:01
  Speaker 9: as amazing as as it can get you know, the
• 46:03
  Speaker 9: understanding this and understanding that. Again it's all already within inside,
• 46:08
  Speaker 9: and then you the more you get coherence into what
• 46:11
  Speaker 9: you are imagining, feeling, thinking and doing, then the emotions.
• 46:16
  Speaker 9: The more things realize, the more things work. And it's
• 46:18
  Speaker 9: getting like faster and faster. The only two guys to
• 46:20
  Speaker 9: like that as well. But I've been hearing with like
• 46:22
  Speaker 9: fears and just like fearing out by paying intention to
• 46:26
  Speaker 9: my own stuff. It's getting faster and fast. Like you
• 46:28
  Speaker 9: imagine something, you think about it, you have the feeling boom,
• 46:30
  Speaker 9: it happens like it's next day, things turning hoadays what
• 46:35
  Speaker 9: maybe it used to take a couple of weeks months,
• 46:37
  Speaker 9: and it's again you've got to take control of the thing.
• 46:39
  Speaker 10: You gotta understand what you're doing, otherwise you may go everywhere.
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: So yeah, and it's the So the way that I
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: like to talk about it is in terms of like
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: that the double sided coin sort of thing, where the
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: physical opening of the pathways let's say like something like
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: the limbic system or you know, the all of the
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: endercurrent system. There's certainly that happening, I would say, also,
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: though it's there's no there is no physical cause without
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: a spiritual effect, a metaphysical effect, and vice versa. So
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: when you are entering these spaces, I it certainly is
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: with within. Do I think that it is within the
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: physical organ of the brain. Absolutely not. I think it
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: is within the personal meso cosm or microcosm. A meso
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: cosm is I am the I am the mediator between
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: Heaven and Earth. I am the middle cosmos. You know,
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: this is this is big in in in that there
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: are there are you know, chiegung movements of uniting Heaven
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: and Earth, and there's a lot of that talk of
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: of of you know, the station of the human being
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: is the bridge between those worlds. And and that is
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: our interface, is our nervous system, is our indecrine system.
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: Is it's everything we have. It's the physical body, it's
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: the emotions, it's the energetic body. It's so as you're saying,
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: you talk about it in terms of coherence, that's really
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: what's happening, is that everything is kicking in and working
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: in in in synchrony. Whereas you in our modern world,
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: that's it's a very challenging thing to have happened without
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: you putting immense amounts of effort into it, but so
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: many things that are that are taking you, you know,
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: your attention, your focus, your connection to your body, and
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: trying to rip all those things apart, separate them, sever them.
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: And this is this is a movement towards the center.
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: It's almost you can think of it like a planet
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: that has exploded. Okay, now you your job, as the
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: exploded planet is somehow to generate that central force of
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: gravity that pulls all the pieces back together and heals
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: what was formerly whole and is now you know, diffuse
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: and and and and disparate. So but I think that
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: that's a really good point, Matt, because I get the question, well,
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: what is it doing the met Well, for for me,
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: it's you know, somebody will come to me that does
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: like goetic magic or some kind of you know, let's
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: say magic of the PGM solomonic to say, well, no,
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: the spirits, I don't consecrate a talis, then the spirit's
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: consecrated for me. And so then it's like, yeah, well, okay,
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: so you're working on an exogynous level, which is fine
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: because that's how you're interacting with the phenomena around you.
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: But that doesn't mean that that you know, the energy
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: that you're working with is not the operative mechanism, because
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: at the end of the day, think of this, when
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: a spirit comes, right, spirit comes and to consecrate your
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: talisman or to make a pact with you or something,
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: does it open up the door and walk in and
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: sit itself down and shake your hand the way I
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: would if I or if you you came into my
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: library and I sat you know, No, that's not how
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: that happens. How it happens is by various methods. You
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: can see the mind of the eye can project something
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: into the room. You could use fluid condensers, mirrors, incense, smoke,
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: there can be all sorts of tells and things like that.
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, you are using
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: what the great you know, teacher, and and I would
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: I would call this guy a you know, an ultimate magician.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: David Rankin he uses the term gateway image. You're creating
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: a gateway image that that that so that you can
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: interact with what is in a disembodied intelligence, which is
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: another way of saying energy. Right, if nothing were left
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: of me but my consciousness, that's still a form of
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: energy that can't be destroyed, can only be transformed. So
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: so this is this where we are working with intelligent energies.
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: We are working with there is an exogynous and an
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: endogenous component to it. The key is you have to
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: be that mediator you have. That's the whole point this
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: shit is to get you to train to be the mediator.
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: And you know, do you have to buy theory magic
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: in order to do that?
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: No?
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: Do you have to get initiated by the Golden Dawn
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: to do that?
• 51:22
  Speaker 8: No?
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: But there I would say that you need some kind
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: of system. You know, you need somebody to teach you
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: a system. Yeah.
• 51:30
  Speaker 8: Nice. And what's fascinating is when you say that, I know,
• 51:32
  Speaker 8: Heideger hostoral. These phenomenologists probably would have never thought that
• 51:36
  Speaker 8: this conversation would be happening. But it's one of those
• 51:38
  Speaker 8: things where it's like, that is the phenomenological experience instead
• 51:43
  Speaker 8: of the cartesian, mechanistic, functionalistic postmodern nonsense which we've fallen into.
• 51:48
  Speaker 8: And so the consciousness and tending it upon itself, which
• 51:52
  Speaker 8: is fascinating in and of itself.
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm one of the things that I had to do.
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: I gave this talk to know at Watkins in London.
• 52:02
  Speaker 4: So obviously there's gonna be a lot of magicians there,
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: people that are flu into this stuff. But I also
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: gave it a like philosophical research society, which is it's
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: not you know, that's it's you don't know who you're
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: gonna get in in in that, but it's that's not
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: just a disparaging remark, but there's not a lot of
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: magicians out in that neck of the woods that are
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: that aren't you know, associated with other things like music
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: and modern like you're saying, Cartesian rooted philosophy. So then
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: how do you explain magic to them? And so, you know,
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: there's obviously right Crowley's definition, which is a classic which
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: he derived from some of the early founders of the
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: Golden Dawn Dionfortune took it and you know, causing change
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: to occur in conformity with the will. Yes, absolutely, but
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: that's anything. And Crowley addresses that, you know, he says,
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: like everything is ultimately an act of magic. Yes, but
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: is that what we're really talking about when we're talking
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: about magic.
• 52:58
  Speaker 5: No?
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Uh So I.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: Found a way to define it that I'm going to
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: just throw out there to you guys, and you could,
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: you know, toss it in the trash or throw it.
• 53:08
  Speaker 8: Back at me.
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: But for the purposes of explaining to these audiences what
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: I meant by magic, As I I said, it's where
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: the phenomenology of consciousness and metaphysical causality intersect. It's where
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: your your mind, your consciousness, and metaphysical causality, you are
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: causing things to happen. Not because I went to the
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: fountain and poured myself a drink of water. That's that's
• 53:34
  Speaker 4: not how magic works. There is no This is why
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: it's called a cultum. Occultum vertutais is the Latin that
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: a grip of used occultum related to oculus in the eye,
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: occultum hidden from the site, qualities that are hidden from
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: the site. Because this causality is nonlinear, it's metaphysical, it's
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: not physical. You can't see why it happens. You will
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: definitely see the delivery mechanism. But the fact that I
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: did a Venusian ritual and then got a date later
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: that day, you know, it's you know, it's like, come on,
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: come on, some of these things defy statistical probability, you know.
• 54:16
  Speaker 6: So I actually have a legit question for Ike. But
• 54:22
  Speaker 6: first let me give him a little shit because when
• 54:24
  Speaker 6: David Rankin came on. I asked him the exact same
• 54:27
  Speaker 6: question I asked you, like the first time you came
• 54:29
  Speaker 6: on about how to reconcile the outer three planets with
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: Rahukatu as well as on the Kabalistic tree for Ketter,
• 54:36
  Speaker 6: Hookema and DApp And he was actually very not only
• 54:40
  Speaker 6: comfortable with my attributions, he was he actually used them.
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: So I just want to say that, I just want
• 54:45
  Speaker 6: to say that it wasn't just me coming up with that,
• 54:48
  Speaker 6: but anyways, Okay, no, I mean no respect.
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: I hope you didn't think I was giving you shit
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: for it.
• 54:52
  Speaker 9: I don't know.
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: I can't help don't work in that milieu.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent, understand.
• 54:57
  Speaker 6: I just wanted to say that since you brought up David,
• 55:00
  Speaker 6: I also respect him very greatly, and I think he
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: is a master magician.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: And I just I just I gave him the same thing.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't hold back. I just want to
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: say that, so well, David, did I respect you as much?
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: I respect you as much.
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: I just say David is a man who is first
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: of all, brilliant, and he's also I would consider David
• 55:18
  Speaker 4: an extremely well educated and cultured man.
• 55:20
  Speaker 6: So you know, I am not those things, but I
• 55:28
  Speaker 6: do want to ask you about something I really don't
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: know anything about, which is the Egyptian sort of soul complexes.
• 55:34
  Speaker 6: I know you have a whole section in the book
• 55:36
  Speaker 6: about kW soul. I don't know anything like zero percent,
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: So anything you say will be completely new to me.
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: I'm sure new for a lot of people listening as well.
• 55:46
  Speaker 6: So if you just want to like give like a
• 55:47
  Speaker 6: brief overview of what sort of the conceptualizations of those
• 55:52
  Speaker 6: things are and maybe even for like my monkey brain level,
• 55:56
  Speaker 6: if you could. But I'll take a little I'll take
• 55:58
  Speaker 6: intermediate as well. But I mean, I'm I'm just saying
• 56:00
  Speaker 6: that I don't know anything about it. I can sew
• 56:02
  Speaker 6: anything you say will be sort of first time and
• 56:05
  Speaker 6: also in lightning cool.
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: Then I can bullshit you now I'm kim joking.
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: Uh I.
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: So there were there were at least at least nine
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: parts of the self. Not all of them were the soul,
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: but nine parts of the totality, the holistic totality, the organism,
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: at least at a minimum in the ancient Egyptian system.
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: We get this from various texts and the way that
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: they describe, uh, the really the funerary texts and the
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: way that they described the dissolution of of the whole,
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: the the the body, the shadow, even your shadow leaves
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: like in Peter Pan. So it's it's it's quite interesting.
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: So the parts that are most relevant two the discussion
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: of etheric magic, because I list the nine and I
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: give their definitions in the book. The ones that are
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: the most relevant for etheric magic, I would say are
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: the Ba and the Ka, and these are respectively, the soul, right,
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: the soul is the Ba and the Ka is the double.
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: It's it's the uh what they were conceiving of as
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: as kind of a wraith, a ghost of specifically Pharaoh.
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: He was the only one who was thought to in
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: the in the early kingdom, you know the they, uh,
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: they didn't think it wasn't until you get the Coffin texts,
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: which I think is the second intermediate period that there's
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: this democratization of like, okay, everyone gets to live in eternity.
• 57:53
  Speaker 8: You know.
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: It's they thought it was just the Pharaoh for thousands
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: of years, so the whole whole project was okay, when
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: Pharaoh's body dies, and that's effectively the anchor point that's
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: holding all this shit together. When that dissolves, everything's going
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: to get released. How do we guide that stuff? What
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: do we do with that stuff to help him reach eternity?
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: And the ba was conceived of as a bird, a
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: hawk or a falcon really, with the head of whoever
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: had died, the facial features the head of whoever had died,
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: and it could you know, soar aloft, which is a
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: way of saying that. First of all, you know, it's
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: the same thing in terms of like astral travel, the
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: soul can leave and come back to the body, so
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: on and so forth. But it's a way of talking
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: about that. What I would say the inherent nature of
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: levity in the soul, the soul being able to rise
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: after death, whereas the energetic body not necessarily it needs
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: to be. There are requirements to keep that thing going.
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: Now for people that have you know, sometimes I'll get shipped,
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: and rightfully so, people will say, well, the term soul
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: is not well defined. I'm going to define the term
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: soul for you. According to the Hellenistic tradition, the Greco
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: Roman Egyptian tradition, the ancients of the world would have
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: meant the totality of your interior experience is your soul.
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: Your thoughts, your emotions, your ideas, your fears, your subtle image,
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: your personal available imagery, your memories, all of that is
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: a part of your soul, which is why in Greek
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: the word for soul is seek right, and that's the
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: root of the word psychology. But they believed that all
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: that continued on after the body died. That was virtually
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: the only difference between our modern psychology and the soul
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: in a lot of ways. So really the ca was
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: how I introduced this idea. This has to do with
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: what Matt was saying, kind of like about ectoplasm. So
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: the whole premise of etheric magic is not so much. Oh,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: I wanted to do an energy system. I wanted to
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: make somebody. We already have it, but most magicians don't
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: know that we're using it. You know, when you do
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: something in the Golden Dawn or and I'm sure it's
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: similar in the AA and OTO versions, you do the
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: projection signs, you know you're you're moving energy towards something.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: There's a reason why when you consecrate a talisman, whether
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: that be a ring or something you place your hand
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: over it. Okay, it's you're why you're projecting something outside
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: of you, outside of your body, you are able to
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: that's once you've linked that up and you learn how
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: to intelligently use it, you can extract it the way
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: Matt was talking about, how these spirits need to borrow
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: the ectoplasm, to borrow the ether from other people in
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: order to manifest. This is a huge part of like
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: the theory of seances, which were the table turning events
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: that were, like, you know, everybody was freaking out about
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: trying to explain with kilner screens and all sorts of
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 4: wacky shit.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: But.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 4: This is effectively what we do in magic when we consecrate,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: you know. And the word spirit speedyoose in Latin, it
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: means the same thing as benevma or numa in Greek,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: or prana or chi or rua, and it means that
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: that same thing. So again there's that spirit versus energy connection. Now,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: there's a scholar that I referenced in the book and
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: she did some research, and I have the citation in
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: there for anybody that wants to take a look at it.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to tell you the name because I
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 4: want you to buy the book, go check it out.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: She has a bit of research talking about how this
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: term Heca, the Egyptian word for magic, the Egyptian god
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: of magic, Heckca, is related to the term ka, this energy,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: this this sort of wraithy double and how the the
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 4: the word heca can be translated as using the ka,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: so using the car. Right when we talk about how alphas,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: Levy was talking about how the asualt is the magical agent,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: it's what accomplishes the magic. We talk about talismanic consecration.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: You're sending the energy. Uh, this kind of stuff. Well, uh,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: there there's some evidence, scholarly evidence to support that this
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: was also uh in a different way. I wouldn't say rudimentary,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: but I would say in a different way of conceiving
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: of it than than we might but very similar in
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: the ancient Egyptian and Hellenistic period as well. This this
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: idea of Hekka using the ka, using that that that uh,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: the what we understand now as the energetic body, that
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: that remains when the soul leaves. Now, what do they
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: do with the comp They put it in a statue
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: and they fed it. What did I say before? When
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: you can see this stuff. It's not imaginary. There is
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: a very subtle physical component. We can't fully define it,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: but there is a physicality to it. So, particularly in
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: the work at John Michael Greer. It's a funny title,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: and John's a lovely man, but the book Monsters is
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: infucking dispensable to anybody that wants to learn about this stuff.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: He talks about all of this stuff, the ancient traditions
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: of the Chinese, traditions of hungry ghosts, the idea, the
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: rudimentary ideas, the roots of where the concepts of vampirism
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: zombies come from. It all has to do with this
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: etheric ca, this double this race like thing that then
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: needs to feed to stay alive because it's associated with
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: the physical body. This is what they call it. And
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: the more that thing is hungry and wants to stay
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: alive after the soul leaves and the body dies, the
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: more intrusive and intense its presence can be.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 9: And so.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: For the Pharaoh, they put it in a statue and
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: they fed it and they treated it with royalty like
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: royalty to keep his ca alive. Now, in magic, you know,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: that's not what I'm teaching people to do. That form
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: of strange, you know, raith necromancy. It's just more so
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: while you are alive, you learning how to use that
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: etheric energy in magic, which means too. There's three phases.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: The first is to link. You must link it. You'd
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: link with it, link your conscious mind to it, because
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: until you've done that, it's completely latent and it's constantly
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: receiving impressions, so you are much more impressionable. Before you
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: link your you will have thoughts that you thought were yours.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: You know, you will be very, very susceptible to influence
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: and manipulation. This is what they call personal magnetism, right
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: when when somebody can manipulate and influence they call that
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: personal magnetism. It's not because people are magnetized to them.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: It comes from the idea of animal magnetism that you
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: can exert that force over somebody and render them latent, receptive.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: So the first precaution, the first hygienic measure, is to
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: link your mind to your etheric body. How do you
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: do that? Well, I teach you. The first thing you
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: have to do is learn to see it and feel it,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: And I give exercises and texts and all of that
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: kind of stuff for not just the visual component, but
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: the tactile component of being able to sense and feel it.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 4: And again, I've done this in workshops and I'm astounded
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: at how successful it's been in person with with groups
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: of people I've never met before. So uh, then the
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: second part is to to to move and cultivate. That's
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 4: just that's chigung, right, is the cultivation of chi in
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: the certain centers of the body. Now in in Chinese
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: medicine and dallas Uh, you know energy theory, you have
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: three main centers, the dantien, and they correspond to the
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 4: cavities of your body. Okay, low dantien down here, the
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: middle danteen. We also call these the sanjao, the triple burners.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 4: These are called the horrors, the the diamonds in in
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: or the horrors in in reiki in the Japanese energy system.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: So what do I correspond those three two salt, sulfur
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 4: and mercury. We're doing alchemy. Okay, the the the the
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: sulfur component is in the upper dantia.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 4: The salt obviously is in the low danti en. That's
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: called the the cauldron of elixir. That's where all your
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: vitality in life is longevity those things. There's a point
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: on the back. I think it's ming men. Ming men, Yeah,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 4: ming men. I think it's do four and it's they
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 4: gets right between the adrenals and slightly lower on the spine,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: and it's the ming men translates to a gait of
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: the fire of life. So there's there's the salt, and
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: then there's the mercury component. Why is mercury in the middle.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 4: A lot of westernso terroists are gonna be confused. Mercury
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: is the consciousness in language like, oh, sit down for
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: a second. Mercury is the mediator. Mercury is the medial point, okay,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 4: and we are always no matter what we're leading with.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: Even in Western magic, what do you do when you
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: when you do the middle pillar, or when you do
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 4: God form work, or when you work the tree of
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: life in the Sirri sensation, you always center the last
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: thing you do, you center that energy into farith. It
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: has to end here because this is the medial space,
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: and this is how to live heart heart forward. And
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 4: you know they say in Chinese medicine, the shen lives
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 4: in the heart, the spirit of the person lives in
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: the heart. It resides in the heart. You can see
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: it in their eyes. The shen is visible through there.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 4: The quality of their spirit is visible in their eyes,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: but it resides in the heart. So I conceive of
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: effectively the cultivation, the movement and cultivation of this energy
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: in these three main middle pillar power points. And then
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: on top of that, I do use the tree of
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: life in the sphere of sensation and be why because
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: it's readily available, ready made. People know this stuff. It's great,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: it works well, it's easy to use. As the time tested,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: we're moving and storing the energy and building it up
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: based on those things. And then finally the last piece
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: is to project it. So you've linked up, you've learned
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 4: how to of it, you've cultivated it in your spirit sensation.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 4: Now you've got to learn how to use this for magic.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 4: And that's probably like the last third of the book.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 8: Yeah, that's that's actually fascinating, that whole connection to then
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 8: how you're how like you teach, how I teach taichi
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 8: chigung and all these different integrations of things, Because the
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 8: last is understanding when somebody's coming up against you, how
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 8: to use everything you just said to then move somebody,
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 8: because taichi is not just the internal art, it's also
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 8: the external warrior thing where when yoused properly, you can
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 8: be just you could be a badass wrestler at the
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 8: same way, because if you can't be moved from your foundation,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 8: because all those things are now linked up into that
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 8: lower foundational Dantean it's great nice.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but I'm pretty sure they call that rooting, right,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 4: part of that rooting, part of rooting, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: I mean it's there's so much that can be done.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: You want to work on vision work, you want to
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: work on memory work, you want to work on U power.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 4: You work with the sulfur center, you know, but you're
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: at the end. You want to work on physical health,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: energy longevity. You work with the salt center. You're always
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 4: centering everything in the middle, right, because mercury is the androgene.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: Mercury can it has both sulfur and salt in it.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: That's what make it. That's mercury is the combination. It's
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: like for anybody that play that plays music. If I
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: were just to play, let's say on a guitar, you know,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: I play a root in a fifth, just two notes
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: and I pluck them together. Those two notes are gonna
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: sound and their vibrations are going to create what we
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: call an overtone, a third note that I didn't play.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: I did not play that, but it emerges from the
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 4: blending of the two notes I did play. It's the
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: same thing with mercury. Mercury is both, so it can
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: be more of one more of the other. But his
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: main job is to be centered and to contain both
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: and equalize them, equilibrate them. So yeah, there's a lot.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of that. There's rooting, there's I use it,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 4: you know. I have postures that we use for scrying.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: It's it's pretty it's pretty intense. Thing is though, I
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 4: do want to give credit where credit is due.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: I would.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 4: They really pushed me. My editor, Heather Green at lleu
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: Ellen was fantastic, and she really pushed me after the
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: first read of the book to to give give everything
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: I got, GIVEU put it all down, give us more,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: give us more, you know, because you're always a little hesitant,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: do I should there be something for me like that?
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 9: I don't.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, you know, if
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: you're going to do something like this and you're going
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 4: to offer this to the world. You got to just
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: go the full monty.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: But and on that.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 4: I know I'm dragging on a little bit here, But
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: there is a funny story that I really want to tell,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: if you'll, if you'll, let me tell about how how
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 4: how this book came about.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 5: So.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: In twenty twenty three, Evo Dominguez Junior invited me to
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: uh the Sacred Space between the World Conference, which is Maryland. Okay,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: I'm speaking there again this year and this month. Actually,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 4: oh wow, a good thing. I reminded myself that I
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: gotta prepare, but I'm going there in like fourteen days.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: But I went in twenty twenty three, and he only
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 4: gave me a handful of days notice. He's like, look,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: I know this is short notice, but come on up
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: if you can make it. So I had to ask
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: off from work. I took a car up, got there late,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: so I didn't get to go to the first night
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: of the presentations. By text, I'm going to go into
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: my hotel room. I'll see in the morning.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: I show up.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 4: I get there in the morning and the first door
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: has a line outside of it, and I go up
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: and I look at the schedule and it says five
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 4: minutes to pitch a book idea to a Llewellyn editor,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: And I was like, holy shit, I didn't even know
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: you could do that. I didn't know if this is
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: what people did at conferences. I sit down and you
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: just listen to somebody, you know, but they're always sourcing ideas.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 4: So I'm like, yeah, I'll do this, I'll get online.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 4: I got hopped online, you know. Then the line starts dwindling.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 4: I'm getting closer to the door and I realize I
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 4: don't have an idea, Like I just kind of jumped
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: on this line and nuts, that's me. You know, if
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 4: you ask my fiancee, Nicole should be the first to
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 4: tell you that I am all you know, I'm all
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: about just if somebody suggests we go for a swim,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: all the normal people go and they change into their
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: their bathing trunks and I am fully clothed, you know,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 4: like one hundred yards out already drowning, drowning. But so
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: I jumped on and I'm getting nervous because there's like
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: one more person. I'm like, what the hell am I
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: going to tell this person? And it just pops into
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: my head, like Hey, gummy, you know what about the
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 4: stuff that you've been doing for like almost ten years
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 4: now with the Eastern and the Western stuff. Why don't
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 4: you pitch this idea to her? And uh, I came
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 4: up with the title and everything, and I went in.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: I pitched the idea and she's like, it sounds good.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: Send me your first chapter and an introduction. And I'm like, okay,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 4: I'll do that. And I left that room and I
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: went to the cafeteria and I just I wrote the
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 4: first chapter and the introduction and I sent it to
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 4: her and then uh yeah, and then then the rest
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: was history. And that was my first book deal.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 8: So it's.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 4: To me, there's something synchronistic and providential about it too,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: So it's very special project for me.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: That's wild Ship make Good for you.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's and because of the lack of fear. That
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: may never happened if you had the fear of not
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: getting a longing.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 4: Well, really, I blame Evo, which is why I asked
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: him to write the forward, because like he there's just
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: something about him. He just he just knows which strings
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 4: to pull. I don't know that he knows why, but
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: he knows what to pull and when and it just
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: and everything. You know, it is a true true magician.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 9: H I wanted to ask something since you briefly talked
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 9: about it, and I think I've follow something on Instagram once,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 9: maybe on on a class of yours or something like
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 9: the usage of music in these kind of things, like
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 9: how do you if maybe you have that on the
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 9: book or or something.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 10: But I find like music fascinating.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 4: So there's a there is there's a chapter.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: Again.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 4: That's because you know, my editor was just kind of like,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: give us a chapter on sound and and and and
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: I okay, sure, let's do it. There are different tones
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 4: uh and vowel and consonant combinations.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 10: I used.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: Primarily the introductory ones have more to do with the
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: right salt, sulfur, and mercury being the three uh sounds
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: of the mother letters of the in the Seffroyette Sira
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: right uh. So the sulfur centerted corresponds to the sibilance,
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: which is that kind of sound. Then the salt center
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 4: corresponds to you know, the letter mem and the element
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 4: of water that's silent, so it's more of a this
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: kind of thing, and then air being in the middle.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: Mercury is as we say in the gold on the
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 4: tongue of balance betwixt them. So that's more of just
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 4: an awe type of thing, getting to feel it in
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 4: the chest. And part of this is developing the magical
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: voice and feeling getting these cavities to vibrate their cavities,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: you know, and get feeling that somatically the levels of
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: vibration and being able to do that. In terms of music,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: there's a lot. I just I'm wrapping up. We're doing
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 4: our last session of the Music as Magic course. I
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: did a seven module course. The modules are I mean,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: most of them were over two and a half hours long,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 4: and I really run the gamut of musical applications in
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: that it will be available for for for anybody that
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 4: wants to purchase it. I you know, we I've recorded
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: all of these. They come with presentation slides. They come
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: with custom syllabi syllabuses that I write for each course,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 4: So anybody's interested in that, reach out to me at
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 4: Ikebaker dot com. There's a little chat widget on the
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 4: bottom right hand corner of the screen and whatever you
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 4: type in there will come to my personal inbox. So A,
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 4: be nice and B if you want to know more
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: about this this particular course, write me there and I've
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 4: got another one coming up in March two.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 8: His courses are amazing. I have taken two of them.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 8: Ike Baker's The Man and he goes super deep. So
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 8: I'm telling you live review. Ikes courses are awesome.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Take it.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Thanks, I I'll send the money later.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 8: Yeah, seven thousand.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 3: Something I didn't want to ask you that I noticed
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: with some chapters in your book, and I thought that
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: there are just from my own experience, of my own practices.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: I thought it was something that's very important for me.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 3: It was important for me. I noticed you have stuff
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 3: on breath, breath work, and visualizations.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, why do you? Why do you include those in
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: the book? Obviously you must.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 4: All of all of these words chi, prana, ru, spiritousevma,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 4: they all related to They all mean breath. They also
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 4: mean other things, but they all mean breath, you know,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 4: or wind, this kind of thing, vapor, et cetera, so
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 4: on and so forth. But but explicitly, you know, spiritousee, penevma,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 4: all of these these words prana this means breath. So
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 4: why well, first of all, ether, this quintessence, this pure
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 4: sort of you know, radiant new luminosity, that that everything
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: that is sort of radiating off of our density. Or
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 4: really a lot of people think it's actually holding us
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: together rather than radiating off of us. But that's a
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 4: whole different conversation. They've always in many, many traditions, it's
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: always been related to air, it's been related to wind.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 4: And how you take it into your body is by breathing.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: And they say, why be right, because in the Golden
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 4: Dawn we say breath is the evidence of life, and
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: that that power, that inherent ether was associated with this
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 4: idea of enlivening things. Right, matter is dead in and
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 4: of itself, It's inert according to the classical worldview, the
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 4: magical worldview, matter is cannot animate itself. So what is
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 4: this thing that animates? Well, and you know, in various
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 4: traditions they say soul, but really spirit penevma or as
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: anglophone pronunciation would be numa numa. This, this pneumatic substance
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 4: enlivens everything. And and in some systems, like there's a
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 4: book called the The Day Spring of Youth, and there's
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 4: a bunch of stuff in the theosophical writings to talk
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 4: about these practices of breathing in and extracting the prana
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 4: from the air. Really, for me, I don't subscribe to
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: that so much as I do this idea that it's
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 4: more along the lines of like what I learned in
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 4: you know Chen, which is Chinese version of Zen. Effectively
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 4: Chen practices meditative practices, is there is a direct relationship
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 4: between the breath and the energy and a lot of it.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 4: This is the very most basic, the most basic way
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 4: of conceiving. It is the way that one of the
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 4: fundamental ways that you learn to link up and move
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 4: the energy is by using the breath as a guide. Now,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 4: it's kind of like in the Golden Dawn where you
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 4: do the lesser ritual of the pentagram and you trace
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: the pentagrams, right, you're tracing the pentagrams to aid you
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 4: in your visualization, to get you know, Mena Mathers or
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 4: Morena Mathers. She actually you get a lot of modern
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: practitioners in the Golden and they very militaristic, you know,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 4: kind of but Mena Mathers actually taught her students, like
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: the Unfortune when she was in the Alpha at Omega,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: to go very slowly because the most important thing is
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 4: the symmetry. So in the same way that you're training
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 4: your mind by aid of this physical gesture in using
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 4: the breath, the fourfold breath and things like this and
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: belly breathing, horror breathing, Dantean breath and this kind of stuff,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 4: you're training your mind to move this energy. Eventually, you
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 4: don't need to do that specific type of breathe thing
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: all the time. But in my experience is that when
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: I do the breath, I mean it's immedia and it's
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: much more powerful, you know. So, uh, there is uh
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 4: that that that synchronization between the mind, the breath, the undulations, right.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: I call that the personal somatic rhythm, the rhythm of
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 4: your body. Right because when you when you slow your breathing,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 4: your heart slows with it. Everything is coming down everything
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: you know, your your your your sympathetic nervous system, your
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 4: parasympathetic nerdive with nervous system is is kicking in and
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: and now you can Israel Reggoredy also talked about this
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 4: at length, like if you are anxious and you can't
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: relax your body, your mind, like you're not going to
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: be able to move that energy, you know. Reggoredy was
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 4: very much into thinking of this stuffs as these energies
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 4: and and uh, that's why he wrote a book called
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: The Art of Relaxation, you know, because it's such an
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: important part of magic is to get everything to this
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 4: very controlled and steady and still base level. So so
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 4: you know, there's that now in my experience. Again, Jin
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 4: could correct me, but in my experience, and I studied
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: with with a Thaie practitioner, Chigung when I was doing
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 4: my personal studies. I had a few Chinese instructors as
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 4: well in school, but they were kind of more of
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 4: on a rotating basis. But the way that I learned
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: it was that the first thing you learn is the
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 4: breathing in the postures in Chigo, Okay. You learn how
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 4: to how to move with the breath. You learn how
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 4: to move very slowly synchronously. You know that, you learn
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 4: the forms and how they move and connect into each other,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 4: and you you learn the names of these forms. Right
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 4: then at a certain point of development, you become what's
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 4: called an inner door student, so that you're an outer
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 4: door student for a while with these traditional guys, and
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 4: it's they're not there too, you know. For customer satisfaction,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 4: you know, like, it's not customer service here. It's like
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 4: you're going to learn what I tell you because you
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 4: came and you sought me, and I like that a lot.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 4: I learn more from those people. So the Inner Door teachings. Now,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 4: once you've mastered the posture, the breath, the movements, the flow,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 4: the forms, then you get the visualizations and that's when
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 4: you can do magic because it's it's it's all of
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 4: those things in concert with that is effectively magic. You know,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 4: it's the same thing in the Western practice. So so yeah,
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 4: that's that is very topically why I.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 7: Included all that stuff. It's a good question though. Thank
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 7: you for asking, thank you for explaining. Yeah, I appreciate that.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 7: Anybody have any other questions, Frank keep.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 8: Going, yeah, yeah, of course. I So, oh then what
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 8: is the true uh with this book? What was your
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 8: main besides walking onto the line and all of a
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 8: sudden you have a book deal? What was your main
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 8: reason for this first one? Is it just because of
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 8: that or did beforehand you were thinking about all these
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 8: things and you're like, I've done this training here and
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 8: now you know Western esoteric traditionals put it together into
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 8: this book, and like what what is the real message
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 8: you're trying to give to the people.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's it's just a product of what
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 4: happened to me. I look at it like you play music, Well,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 4: you're the music you make and the music you put
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 4: on an album. It's it's based off of the music
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 4: you've listened to a right, So it's right in that way,
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: you're you cannot create any new ingredients in music. In cooking,
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 4: what you can do is you can take the ingredients
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 4: and mix them together in your personal way, and they
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 4: call that style, right, And so this is effectively what
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 4: happened with the book. I I suffered a really really
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 4: devastating life event that effectively it destroyed my life in
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 4: a very short period of time, maybe like three months,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 4: and everything that I had built, uh, which is good, right,
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: because of the House of Cards, it was horseshit. But
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 4: at that point, that's when I decided to go back
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 4: to the golden dawn that I had blown off and
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: flaked out on. And at the same time I was
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 4: I was I had to get out of bartending.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: I didn't I want to.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 4: I didn't want to be touring anymore. I didn't want
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 4: to be working nights four o'clock in the morning in
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: a bar in Manhattan. So I couldn't figure out what
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: was going on. I was reading a book that somebody
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 4: gave me. It was called Imagining the World into Existence.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 4: This is a book by Norman Dyellis, who actually is
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 4: a wonderful lady and she's been on the podcast. I
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 4: didn't know her back then, but there was an image
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 4: in this book of somebody performing like what looked like massage.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 4: And I don't know why, but it just hit me like,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 4: I have to help people. That's where I need to go.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 10: Right.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 4: I served them alcohol. Now I have to serve them,
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: you know, in something that's going to heal them instead
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 4: of pick your poison. So I went into bodywork physiotherapy.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 4: Took me a little while to find my footing figure
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: out what I want to do. I didn't like the
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 4: Western allopathic medical paradigm, so I went Parts East and
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 4: I learned, you know, Asian body work. I learned. I
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 4: was in acupuncture. I went to clinic, I learned Chinese
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 4: herbalism and all that stuff. Now as I was doing that,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 4: I was initiating into the Golden Dawn, and I realized,
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 4: hang on, did these two things need each other.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 9: You know.
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 4: It was just a total fluke, Like I didn't think
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 4: I was going to get the other side of the picture.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 4: It was just just happened at that time, and I
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 4: was like, wait, this is blowing my goddamn mind. Like
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 4: these are two things that when you have both of them,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 4: you have pretty much the whole picture. And but they're bifurcated.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 4: You know, especially in the West, we don't we do
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 4: not have a system of working with the energies that
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 4: we claim to project in the West the way that
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 4: they do. So I was just personally keeping this record
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 4: of what I was doing. I mean, right here, these
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 4: are all my fucking journals that I wrote in through
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 4: the outer Order, through college, everything, you know. So I'm
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 4: sitting there creating my own library, my own personal record,
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 4: which is a library of the things that I was seeing, noticing,
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 4: learning combinations of techniques, and so it was just I
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 4: was just doing that. I was doing that, I was
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 4: living that, I was putting it into practice. And so
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 4: then when I hopped on that line, it was like
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 4: the you know, hey, that's your big idea, that's been
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 4: your project, so why don't you just do that you've
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 4: written it in pencil, you know why put it put
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: into a book format?
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Uh, Judith, did you have anything did you want
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: to ask have to put you on the spot or anything?
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: There sometimes that No.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 8: No, no, I have I don't.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: Actually, this is my introduction to Ike, so he's given
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: me a lot to think about, and it's I'm actually
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: considering taking your course.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 4: Well, and that gives me an opportunity for anybody that's
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 4: familiar with pants offfers, right, Sam Robinson Ian Gladwin. I'm
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: sure some people out there will be familiar with pants offfers.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: I've been reading pants offers for like twelve fifteen years.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 4: I recently partnered with them, and I'm going to be
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 4: offering with pan Sulfers uh and Sam, I'm going to
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 4: be teaching uh an etheric magic course. I'm going to
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 4: be doing a whole course on the book, and it's
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 4: going to be in six modules. We haven't gone live
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 4: with any of those materials, but I'm just putting it
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 4: out there in the ether for everybody that might be
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 4: interested specifically in learning what I'm talking about tonight.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking that up. Now. That's it? Nice man.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: Good for you.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's all it's all Sam. You can thank Sam.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 4: He's he's really good at that, you know, bringing bringing
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: people into the fold.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 8: So so then, hey, what do you think the world's
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 8: getting pretty crazy there?
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 6: Ike?
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 8: Do you think that this is the way to balance
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 8: out the nonsensical with the sensical? And most people think
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 8: the occult isn't as sensical as I know we all
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 8: do here, but there seems to be a lot of
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 8: dark sorcery going on. And the only way to contrast
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 8: that was with the light. What't you say?
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but the problem is that most people don't know
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 4: what the fun they're doing with the light. You know,
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 4: it's like you think you have the light, and what
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 4: you're really doing is you have a flame, and the
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 4: flame is not the true light. You're just lighting shit
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 4: on fire at this point, you know, like, that's not
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 4: the light, so right, and that's pure Plato right when
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 4: they're sitting there, when it's the allegory of the Cave,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 4: Book seven of the Republic, When they're sitting there and
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 4: they're seeing the shadows on the wall, what's behind them
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 4: the false light and it's fire the true light. You
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 4: gotta work for that true light. You gotta climb all
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 4: the way up that path, that ascent, that rough ascent
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 4: under the overpass, until finally you reach the light of
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 4: day and the sun blinds you temporarily. That's the true light.
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 4: You are fucking blind at first, and that is effectively
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 4: what we all have to go through in order to
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 4: fix the mess we're in. It's not it's not in
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 4: we talked about this interface between the interior and the exterior,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 4: like our exterior situations are a product of who we
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 4: are who we are, Okay, So a part of this
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 4: can help with that, in the creation of insight, in
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 4: the focusing of your attention and your efforts into something systematized,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 4: something progressive in terms of systematic, something you're getting better at,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 4: something you're working with and it's working on you. But
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 4: there are other ways to do that. I mean, for me,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 4: it was always initiation. But I understand now, after being
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 4: out here sticking my neck out here so people can
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 4: rip my head off for three years, I understand that
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 4: I didn't have the same experience of initiation that a
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 4: lot of people who went through, you know, the same
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 4: tradition did. I think that purely it was again this
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 4: quixotic thing. I had no clue what the Golden Dawn
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 4: was when I entered it. It was a fluke. I
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 4: wanted to join a Kabbala study group and the guy
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 4: told me, we don't do that anymore. But we got
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 4: this other meeting and it was the golden on like
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 4: what do people think you're doing? Like Harry Potter wand
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 4: waving shit? And I totally flaked. But then when I
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 4: went back, I didn't know anything about I had had
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 4: no preconceptions.
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 10: There wasn't all this.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 4: There weren't people like me out there giving everything away,
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 4: you know, it was. It was very difficult to know anything.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 4: So I went into that blind and the fact that
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 4: I wasn't trying to you know, hump into submission into
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 4: what I wanted it to be. It I was able
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 4: to experience it right Like if if if you met
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 4: a person and you you went to coffee or you
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 4: went to dinner, you're on a date, and the whole
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 4: time you're sitting there telling them who you think they are,
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 4: You're not going to learn a thing about them. You're
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 4: probably not going to get a second date. Effectively, this
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 4: this was what enabled me to have I believe the
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 4: experience that I did have, which was utterly transformative. I'm
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 4: virtually unrecognizable from the person I was before I went
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 4: through initiation. And I think in some way you could
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 4: do that at the Golden Dawn. You could do that
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 4: with the Theoreic magic. You could do that in the Oto,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 4: you could do that in you know, amwork theosophy, because
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 4: it's about what you are bringing to the table and
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 4: how you are allowing yourself to be led.
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, that, or you could do it through reading
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 8: the Republic and learning how to philosophize and realizing how
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 8: to actually walk out of the cave, because nobody can
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 8: do it for you, you know. And I think that's
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 8: something that Socrates and Plato was through Socrates's voice, was
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 8: really getting at, you know, is that like you have
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 8: like that's the idea of at least my readings of
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 8: no One. You can't bring the light back into the cave.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 8: And that's what people mistake is that no matter where
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 8: you're at, in Malchuth or the cave. That's why it's
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 8: a contrasting thing of like once you become a philosopher king,
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 8: or once you witness the Platonic forms, it's truly that
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 8: then you don't want to govern because you're just really
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 8: truly trying to learn how to govern yourself.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 4: Well, and that's the thing there. There's some verbiage there,
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 4: specifically in the in the original Greek, in the Republic,
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 4: and I think you you should people should read the Republic.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 4: But if you really want to learn how to do
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 4: the dialectic and what the whole purpose of it is,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 4: you got to read. You got to at least you
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 4: got to at least read the twelve Dialogue, so the
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 4: ambleiking and curriculum as well. You're not going to get
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 4: it from a single dialogue, especially the Republic, because it's
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: it's the great, it's the magnum opus. It contains all
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 4: his major themes. It's exhaustive. But so so you know,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 4: you want to you want to go you want to
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 4: read the Republic with a shirtba somebody that's been up
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 4: this mountain seven or eight times, maybe one hundred.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 4: But the main thing about about the allegory of the
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 4: cave is it is very interesting, very interesting. He doesn't
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 4: say that the prisoner, and that's what he calls them prisoners.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 4: They're bound hand and foot, and their their necks, their heads,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 4: they can't look away from the wall. He doesn't say
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 4: that one escapes. He says that one is freed. He
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 4: doesn't say by who or why. But then he says
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 4: he is then shoved, pushed and dragged up. That this
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 4: is what I mean when allowing yourself to be led,
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 4: because that in that instance, Socrates, I believe Plato, you know,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 4: through Socrates talking about and this is not gonna be
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 4: very popular, talking about providence. Providence, something comes and takes
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 4: the chains off of you. For me, my life was destroyed.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 4: I had no choice. Did I know what I was
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 4: going in?
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 9: Now?
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 4: I flaked on the Golden Dawn?
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: Did I know what I was in?
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 9: No?
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: I you know, I jerked around for the first like
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 4: three months I was involved in the order. I had
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 4: to be pushed, shoved and dragged, you know. And this
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 4: there is you have to learn to allow yourself to
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 4: be led.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 10: That's what it's.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 4: Something like a system like the Golden Dawn ultimately culminates
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 4: in right, that's the job of the adept at first,
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 4: the adept, this minor is to rise and unite with
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 4: your higher divine genius. And so that's what's leading you
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 4: in a lot of this stuff right, and we say it.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 4: The lamp of the hidden knowledge went before you, though
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 4: you're the but though it was unseen by thine eyes.
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 4: The knowledge of the lamp of the hidden knowledge is
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 4: always guiding you. It's always in front of you. You
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 4: don't know why you're doing what you're doing, you know,
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 4: and if you dare take to take credit from it,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 4: you're gonna you will fall soon. So you need to
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 4: allow yourself to be led. And I think that that's
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 4: a really powerful statement in the Republic, is that like
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 4: it's too much to do this yourself. We can't do it.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 4: Like the persona like you know, Ike, who when he
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 4: dies is dead, you know, And like this guy who
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 4: you know struggles with myriad things self esteem, laziness of
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 4: physical health, eating too much, staying up too late. That guy,
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 4: that guy's gonna do this work. No, absolutely not. There's
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 4: something that that guy has to allow himself to be
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 4: led through this work. You you don't give yourself the
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 4: marching order you know, you receive, you learn ways to
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 4: receive them. That's what the Golden don does. You're teaching
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 4: you a way to receive your marching orders, and then
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 4: you make sure that your ass follows, you know, just
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 4: follow suit, but one foot in front of the other
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 4: and that's it. So so I think that that's really
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 4: important too, if we're talking about how to kind of
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 4: fix or I don't even think you can't fix what's
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 4: going on. You have to transition and evolve into something else.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 4: There's no fixing this. It's just we got to get
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 4: through it, you know.
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 2: And I don't know.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 4: I truly I can't say if we will get through
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 4: it in my lifetime, but I always have hope, always.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, beautiful, beautiful.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: Uh we there's anything about this book that you would
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 3: like to, you know, at least still talk about or
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 3: mention or leave us with before we start to wrap
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 3: it up. You know, what is it about this book
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 3: that's different that you say? You know, you know the
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 3: reason for this book? I guess what stands out with
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 3: this one and other people's.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 4: Well, A lot of people are telling me that it's
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 4: it's extremely easy to read, and like, I put shitload
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 4: information into this thing, as as I always do. I
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 4: can't help myself. I really can't help myself. I just
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 4: I'm here to literally just just just vomit this stuff.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 4: And I give a lot of relevant contextual and historical
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 4: stuff to point you in a direction to begin to
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 4: understand this, rather than like you go on YouTube and
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 4: you're watching some guy tell you about, you know, piezoelectricity
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 4: in his crystals. There's nothing wrong with that, but there's
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 4: there's there's a much broader history of discussion and this
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 4: in learning what this is and using it. It's a
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 4: huge history both hemispheres, right, So I try and and
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 4: give that stuff in contextual for the reader. And it
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 4: just so happened that, uh, you know, it was my
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 4: first book, deal, but it wasn't the first book I wrote.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 4: So I got all the big words and fancy concepts
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 4: out in the first book. It was a total cathartic
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 4: you know exercise. So this one I was much more
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 4: focused in the way that I wrote, and apparently it
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 4: was very very clear to a lot of people. I
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 4: think that's one way it stands out. The other way
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 4: is that nobody's ever done anything like that before. You know,
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 4: Etheric taken the Eastern tradition and what what we what
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 4: I learned about the Eastern tradition and brought it into
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 4: the language the symbol systems of the Hermetic Kabbala of
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 4: the West and Western alchemy. So so that's it's really
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 4: those two systems that they were the only doorways in uh,
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 4: into getting this stuff into a specifically Western magical practice
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 4: for people too. Then it's just a very easy transition
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 4: into using it magically. And I'd like to think I'm
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 4: very thorough, but I leave enough room for you to, like,
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 4: I say, you know you can you don't like some
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 4: of this stuff, fine, great, take it what you do
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 4: like and apply it to the system that you currently work.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: Apply it.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 4: It's it's very applicable to everything that you're probably already doing.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 4: So so there's that too that it can be kind
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 4: of a little a La Kart. So yeah, other than that,
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 4: I mean, go on Amazon and read the reviews. I
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 4: got some really good refuse.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 3: To actually, oh and you do have I think it
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 3: does mention. You do have like fifty lessons in that
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: too as well.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 4: Right, Oh, yeah, I've got exercises, there's a there's a
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 4: guided visualization, there is all sorts of stuff. It's you know,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 4: it's Llewellen. So the main thing, you know, one of
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 4: their central tenets is, yeah, you write about all the
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 4: history and theory you want.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 8: But you got it.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 4: This has to focus on practice, which I love. I
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 4: was on board with that from the beginning, so it's
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 4: extremely practical. I would say, uh, yeah, that's uh, that's
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 4: really it. It's a special it's a special book. It's
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 4: it's it's it's already it's getting translated into multiple languages
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 4: at this point, so it's it's it's really been a
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 4: wild ride with this particular book. But look out for
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 4: the maybe maybe in two years, I think that'll be
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 4: ready to the the Luminous Body. That's what I'm calling
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 4: it for now. The follow up, the sequel to it
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 4: is uh, I'm going to do that with Lluellen some
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 4: good for you man, Good luck with that.
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 10: So I expect to read a book and then be
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 10: able to do TELEKINESI. Right, yeah, yeah, awesome.
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 4: By the way, I'm gonna have you sign a liability
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 4: way for.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 3: Very nice all right, Uh, I'll have everybody plug is
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 3: shows before we wrap it up here what is going on?
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: And you're muted?
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 10: You know, sorry about that.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure, actually quite enlightening. I know you
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: put it out in ether about that course you're putting together.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: How soon do you think that might be out there
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: for us to partake.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 4: I want to say, March, I'm probably I'm going to
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 4: be teaching three courses in in in this in March,
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 4: I'm going to be teaching the Etheric Magic Course, which
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 4: is going to be six modules right out of the
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 4: book and with extra shit you know that I didn't
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 4: put in there. I'll be teaching a class called a
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 4: course called Techniques of Greco Egyptian Theorgy, and that is
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 4: in October of last year, I did a I guided
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 4: and facilitated a field immersive excursion through Upper and Lower
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 4: Egypt with twenty participants. And I had spent a significant
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 4: amount of time putting together and reconstructing to whatever degree
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 4: was possible ancient theurgic ritual ceremonies and and uh so
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 4: all of the ritual techniques and the theory and the
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 4: history that I put together for that that actual like
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 4: on site you know, nine ten day excursion that's gonna
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 4: be most of the content of this that course. And
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 4: then uh the the final course I'm gonna be doing,
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 4: which is shorter, it's only four modules. It's it's gonna
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 4: be it's called Astrological Herbalism for Witches. Magicians and alchemists.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 4: So that's another book I got in the pipeline and
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 4: I'm going to be teaching a course on on that stuff.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 4: So yeah, again, anybody that's interested Ike Baker dot com
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 4: write to me and I'll get you signed.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: Up for everything. Nice good stuff. Yeah.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 4: Oh but thank you again.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: And you could catch me on the Loon on YouTube
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: as a loon on YouTube and on x This was
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: a pleasure.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, and uh jin, what is going on with
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 6: what's up? Well, I just want to say thank you
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 6: so much. I honestly you're a great guest to like
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 6: legit legit like super respect to your knowledge base and
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 6: just like how yeah, it's a bit syncretic, but that's
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 6: kind of the time of that exactly like what you said.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 6: It's like I always say, like knowledge goes best together
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 6: because then only then can you see the contour of
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 6: the truth.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: I kind of like that.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 6: That's very ton tric, maybe because we only have one
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 6: primordial truth but a lot of relative truth, so it
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 6: makes sense for us. But you know, regardless of your system,
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 6: I think that you do have a lot of knowledge
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 6: and I greatly appreciate it.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: So thank you so much.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 6: And thank you, of course, Nick Boss for inviting me,
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 6: Thank you Judith, thank you Brandon of course, who is
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 6: my buddy. For the record, he is my friend, but
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 6: I am going to give him shit on the show
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 6: at times if I will. And then of course Matt,
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 6: who is our webmaster as well as our YouTube social
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 6: media coordinator for the Gray Lodge. Check out our show
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 6: February thirteenth, will as the cause of fire exposition on
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 6: naw success my episodes with Sauschkey, I have a double
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 6: episode coming up, and also with the Taoist priest that
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 6: we that I forgot his name very temporarily. Matt reminded
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 6: me Master Gongson. And I've got so many, so many
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 6: shows coming up. Nick I, Brandon and I are working
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 6: on something I've got I've just got so much going on.
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 6: It's like a little overwhelming, but it's it's great, it's generative,
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 6: and I'm in a good place. So everybody, thank you
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 6: so much, and have a great year of the fire Horse,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 6: because Chinese New Year is almost here end of the month,
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 6: so you know, I think it'll be a welcome respite
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 6: from the multuousness of the yearly Snake, So thank you,
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 6: appreciate it.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for coming on. I would appreciate you.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 3: Jorded ed Brandon, what's going on Vegas?
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 8: Hey? Yo?
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 8: Nice, amazing as always, Ike's the man. I don't know
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 8: why he doesn't say it. Supposedly he had a new
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 8: company come a business with his soap and all the
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 8: herbs and stuff, so everyone should make sure they also
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 8: buy his brilliance. He'll tell you.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 5: Just go do it.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 8: Buy the book. Ikes the Man, megas and the media here.
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 8: Head over to my YouTube because one of the remedies
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 8: to a postmodern mechanical functional world is magic and kung fu,
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 8: and I find that to be something everyone can do,
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 8: so their only way to save the world is to
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 8: save yourself. Head over to x head over to Instagram.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 8: This crew is amazing. Shout out to Nick of the
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 8: occult rejects. We are all here because of him, and
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 8: thank you again for the evening. It's fantastic.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 3: Thank you, sir. I appreciate your joining us and my
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 3: man Matt was going on, kid. Thank you very much
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 3: for coming on.
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 9: Man, Yeah, thank you for calling always, super nice, super
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 9: great discussions here and as always, you can find me
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 9: as at Medmore nineteen that's going to be on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube,
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 9: maybe some other places, but those are the ones that
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 9: you should post the most.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 10: And like I said, just.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 9: Launch today you can enter a social platform for esoteric
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 9: and spiritual discourse. It's not about hosting the content that
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 9: already exists like here on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, everywhere, but
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 9: more so a discourse layer. So there's gonna be a
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 9: lot of coal stuff there. Just make sure to go
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 9: to enter gammu that's ga Mu dot com. And yeah,
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 9: in a few weeks that's gonna be a lot of
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 9: co stuff there.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 3: So awesome, very nice, congratulations, gradulations, and last I please
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 3: let everybody know where they can find at least yeah.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me on. It's always great. Seriously,
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 4: I can't say enough good things about what you are
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 4: putting together here and what you've done. I'm just happy
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 4: to be, you know, in the mix anytime.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 4: Ike Baker dot com I K E B A k
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 4: E R. That's where you can find most of my stuff.
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 4: The channel on the channel on YouTube is r kanem
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 4: A R C A and v M. Thank you Brandon
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 4: for mentioning the shop. Nicole, well, thank you as well.
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 4: So I put that in the chat on YouTube. It's
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 4: Prickle and Pine shop shop on on on Etsy, and
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 4: uh yeah, we're shipping all over the place, and it's
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 4: a lot of custom botanicals and soaps and saves and
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 4: things like that. And I very occasionally will get in
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 4: the mix and do a if I have a nice election,
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 4: right astrological election, I'll do some uh some astrologically time.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 4: Uh, soaps correspond to different planets and things like that.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 4: I don't consecrate them, you know, because it's I'm I'm
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 4: not putting my my my chee and your soap so
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 4: that you can rub it on yourself. It's it's not
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 4: what I do. If you want to consecrate it, go ahead,
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 4: but I'll just make the soap and send you and
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 4: Nicole will so Yeah, thank you for bringing that up.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 4: I appreciate it. There's just so much to talk about.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 4: I get overwhelmed. That's what friends are for, yeah, seriously,
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 4: And I'm really looking forward, really looking forward to getting
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 4: on here with fredder RC from a hermetic podcast. Uh
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 4: and just a couple of days. I think Wednesday we're on.
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 4: We're going to talk about Golden Dawn. Probably, yes, for
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 4: the second time. Yeah, second truck. Yeah, thank you very
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 4: much man for coming on.
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 3: It's always great stuff, always great toys and tons of
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: tons of information. I get a lot myself. Thank you
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 3: everybody in the chat. That's what's up. There's a lot
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 3: of people here from the beginning to the end. They
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 3: appreciate it and love all the comments and love all
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 3: the stuff that was added in the questions if they're
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 3: thrown in there, and that's where we go live. But
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 3: that's the end of another cult rejects until the next one.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 3: Everybody be well later.