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The United States That Never Were · Ridiculous History

0:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, welcome to the show Ridiculous Historians. As we
0:26
Speaker 1: record this episode, there are currently fifty states in the Union.
0:32
Speaker 1: Only fifty. Feels like there'd be more. It feels like
0:37
Speaker 1: there should be more. And it's strange when we think
0:39
Speaker 1: about how recently some of those states were added, you know,
0:42
Speaker 1: like in our earlier podcast about Vermont, when we talked
0:45
Speaker 1: about the former Kingdom of Hawaii. That's right. I think
0:49
Speaker 1: wasn't it only in the fifties that those two were added?
0:53
Speaker 1: I think Alaska and Hawaii were the last two by
0:56
Speaker 1: the way, Yes, who are you man? Are? Oh? That's right,
1:01
Speaker 1: I'm Ben and we are joined, of course, with our
1:04
Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram hahai. I think was in um
1:09
Speaker 1: when was it? Specifically? It was in the fifties. It
1:11
Speaker 1: looks like it's fifty nine here. According to my handy
1:14
Speaker 1: dandy research materials, Alaska and Hawaii were given statehood in
1:19
Speaker 1: that same year. But we've got sixty years in the interim,
1:24
Speaker 1: and and I haven't heard about any new states in
1:27
Speaker 1: a minute. My last time I checked, I don't know
1:29
Speaker 1: about you back. Yeah, it's a it's kind of a bummer, right,
1:32
Speaker 1: because how exciting and strange. It must have been to
1:35
Speaker 1: be alive at a time when an extra star too
1:39
Speaker 1: was added to the flag. That's nuts. Yeah, I'd just
1:41
Speaker 1: be irritated for all those people that have the flags
1:43
Speaker 1: with the fifty stars and get at the flag. Now
1:47
Speaker 1: the guy who owns the flag factor and you're the
1:49
Speaker 1: woman who owns the flag factor doesn't seem tenable. Actually,
1:52
Speaker 1: remember in a recent episode we had about Vermont, The
1:54
Speaker 1: question I think I posed was how do you succeed? Exactly? Like,
1:59
Speaker 1: what's the process for that? Is it even possible? And
2:02
Speaker 1: we kind of came to the conclusion that yes, in
2:05
Speaker 1: theory it's possible, but it doesn't really happen that way, right, No,
2:10
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It's it's easy to propose the intention to succeed,
2:15
Speaker 1: but it's difficult to succeed successfully. You are, that was
2:21
Speaker 1: King My Man was tough. Are we also going to
2:24
Speaker 1: get to check off a bunch of state episodes and
2:26
Speaker 1: one go in this episode today? Holy smokes, do you
2:28
Speaker 1: think it counts for I don't know it does. Because
2:30
Speaker 1: our rules were going to be that they had to
2:32
Speaker 1: be focused on one a little cheap to do it
2:34
Speaker 1: this way, and they also have to be real States
2:37
Speaker 1: spoiler to anyone who didn't read the title of today's episode.
2:41
Speaker 1: Today we are exploring states that were almost states or
2:47
Speaker 1: proposed ghost states. Yeah. I like that. Yeah, just how
2:53
Speaker 1: about this the United States that never were there? We go,
2:55
Speaker 1: that's good. That's got a touch of poetry to it.
2:57
Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah, we along with some help from
3:01
Speaker 1: our fantastic research associate Christopher Hasciotis of Louis Louis fame.
3:06
Speaker 1: Does he have a sound effect yet? Maybe it's maybe
3:08
Speaker 1: it's Louis Louis, I don't know. Whatever, man, let's leave
3:10
Speaker 1: it the casey, but I think he needs one. And
3:12
Speaker 1: now Pronto agreed. We found We started digging into this,
3:17
Speaker 1: and we thought maybe we would find one or two
3:21
Speaker 1: proposed states that for one reason or another didn't work out.
3:25
Speaker 1: Not the case. The case. We found so many, so
3:28
Speaker 1: many in fact, that we cannot We cannot do them
3:32
Speaker 1: all justice in a single episode, or we might just
3:35
Speaker 1: brush over them because they have a fun name. Some
3:38
Speaker 1: of the stories behind these are a little drier than others,
3:41
Speaker 1: and some of them are, you know what we would
3:43
Speaker 1: consider the caliber of ridiculousness that we strive for on
3:46
Speaker 1: this show every week. Yes, so what do you want
3:50
Speaker 1: to kick off with first? No, I think it's fine
3:53
Speaker 1: for us to sort of jump around here. Yeah, I
3:55
Speaker 1: think so too. Across style criss cross will make you
3:58
Speaker 1: want to jump around the line. I think in honor
4:02
Speaker 1: of our dear friend F. Scott Benjamin, we should go
4:05
Speaker 1: with Scott. Yes, it is true Scott. That was the
4:12
Speaker 1: name of a state. The full name, I believe was
4:15
Speaker 1: the Free and Independent State of Scott. Is that correct?
4:18
Speaker 1: I think it such sounds like a pleasant place to live.
4:23
Speaker 1: But I'm just I'm filtering that through the lens of
4:25
Speaker 1: Scott Benjamin, who can do no wrong. If he was
4:28
Speaker 1: a state, I would live there. Yeah. I would have
4:31
Speaker 1: loved to be in that Scott state of mind. Yeah.
4:34
Speaker 1: The state of Scott got its namesake from Scott County, Tennessee,
4:39
Speaker 1: because the county itself, I believe, decided to seceed from
4:46
Speaker 1: Tennessee in protest of Tennessee seceding from the United States.
4:53
Speaker 1: The problem here is that they can that county government
4:58
Speaker 1: unilaterally we succeed. It's not as if the rest of
5:03
Speaker 1: Tennessee was on board with it and they wanted to
5:08
Speaker 1: become an uncleaved community of the Union. But oddly enough,
5:12
Speaker 1: it kind of sort of technically a little bit succeeded
5:17
Speaker 1: for a while, succeeded, well, I guess maybe kind of.
5:23
Speaker 1: We don't want to We don't want to confuse anybody,
5:26
Speaker 1: the least of all me, because I get confused. I
5:28
Speaker 1: get words mixed up with Yeah, but this is the
5:31
Speaker 1: Civil War and the free and independent State of Scott
5:34
Speaker 1: It sounds so so nice. It wasn't again founded during
5:38
Speaker 1: the Civil War because Scott County wasn't down with Tennessee
5:45
Speaker 1: joining the Confederacy, or they had no interest in joining
5:48
Speaker 1: what's called the Confederate States of America, which for some
5:51
Speaker 1: reason I never thought of it in those terms, but
5:53
Speaker 1: obviously that makes sense. It's the states that wanted to
5:55
Speaker 1: succeede from the Union and form their own country and
5:59
Speaker 1: did and did unrecognized, but they did form a very
6:03
Speaker 1: short lived eight eight six. That's right, you're talking about
6:07
Speaker 1: the s Yeah, yeah, So Scott County was not down
6:11
Speaker 1: with that because people most people that lived there were
6:14
Speaker 1: not plantation holders, were slave owners, and they had the
6:17
Speaker 1: majority um interest here, and so they just weren't down
6:20
Speaker 1: with joining it, and so they wanted to remain a
6:22
Speaker 1: Union state, which is like anomalous in a state like Tennessee,
6:26
Speaker 1: which would have been firmly as a whole pro Confederacy, right.
6:31
Speaker 1: You know, it's weird because it's relatively rare for us
6:33
Speaker 1: to see entirely, entirely unanimous decisions. That's true. It's like
6:38
Speaker 1: with the Maryland episode, where I assumed Maryland was going
6:42
Speaker 1: to be more like New York or more like you know,
6:44
Speaker 1: the North and be pro union, but in fact they
6:48
Speaker 1: were kind of in the middle where there was a
6:49
Speaker 1: contingent on both sides. But that's true everywhere. We start
6:52
Speaker 1: to think geographically in terms of like everyone is a
6:55
Speaker 1: certain way, and then we know that's not the case.
6:57
Speaker 1: But one thing that the people of Scott County it
7:00
Speaker 1: seems pretty unanimous on, was that they were again it.
7:03
Speaker 1: They were not having it. On June eighth, eighteen sixty one,
7:07
Speaker 1: they decide that they are going to succede. But then
7:11
Speaker 1: a really fascinating thing happens because they made a proclamation
7:15
Speaker 1: to the government of the state saying, yo, this is
7:18
Speaker 1: what we're doing. We're out. And what did Tennessee do? Nothing? Nothing?
7:22
Speaker 1: They ignored it. They when we say ignored, we have
7:26
Speaker 1: to underline the incredible extreme to which they ignored this.
7:29
Speaker 1: Not only did they not object, they didn't respond at all.
7:33
Speaker 1: They were busy in the Civil War. And also, you
7:38
Speaker 1: know this, this should be said, the state of Scott,
7:41
Speaker 1: Scott County. It's like right on the northern border of
7:45
Speaker 1: modern day Tennessee. That's mountain country. And it wasn't it
7:49
Speaker 1: wasn't a real hot spot for the battles of the
7:52
Speaker 1: Civil War. So it would have largely remained kind of
7:55
Speaker 1: an unnoticed that's own little enclave, right, little island in
7:58
Speaker 1: the stream. But man, you would think, okay, okay, they
8:01
Speaker 1: would ignore it for until the war settled down, right,
8:04
Speaker 1: like by eight seventy No, no, not the case, right
8:09
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred. I think we gotta keep prices right in
8:15
Speaker 1: this one. Alright, we're playing games here. It was six
8:17
Speaker 1: we're right, yeah, Like that was like I was born in.
8:21
Speaker 1: So there was this forgotten lost state of Scott, the independent,
8:26
Speaker 1: the free and independence state of Scott, which sounds delightful, um,
8:30
Speaker 1: But it's funny too because they actually had to request
8:34
Speaker 1: of Tennessee to be readmitted, right, yes, and they held
8:39
Speaker 1: a h This has such a nice ending. The State
8:42
Speaker 1: of Tennessee even held a little party a little shin
8:45
Speaker 1: dig welcoming Scott back into the state of Tennessee. The
8:51
Speaker 1: thing is, though, like it goes both ways, because not
8:54
Speaker 1: only did Tennessee not acknowledge them, it didn't really grant
8:57
Speaker 1: them their state hood. So was it ever really a state? No,
9:03
Speaker 1: it's just the proclamation just stayed on the books. But
9:07
Speaker 1: think about it would be very difficult to enforce that
9:09
Speaker 1: because to be your own state you have to have
9:11
Speaker 1: all this infrastructure and legislature that not only did they
9:15
Speaker 1: not have what was probably uncalled for given the population
9:19
Speaker 1: and what kind of population do you think we're talking. Yeah,
9:21
Speaker 1: as of two thousand and ten, the population of modern
9:26
Speaker 1: day Scott County is twenty two thousand people. It surely
9:31
Speaker 1: would have been less in the civil ward. Yes, certainly.
9:35
Speaker 1: That is the story of Scott County, which I thought
9:38
Speaker 1: was a really nice one. Yeah, a k a. The
9:40
Speaker 1: the Free and Independent State of Scott just no formerly
9:45
Speaker 1: known as the Free and Independent State of Scott. And
9:48
Speaker 1: you can tell that we just fell in love with
9:50
Speaker 1: saying that name. But that's far from the only state
9:54
Speaker 1: we found. There were a couple that really caught your
9:56
Speaker 1: interests to that you you were sending me some stuff
9:58
Speaker 1: about off air, Yeah, think mainly there's a lot of
10:01
Speaker 1: fun things about this one. But the first one for
10:04
Speaker 1: me is the fact that the name as spelled not
10:07
Speaker 1: You're never gonna say it right unless you read somewhere
10:10
Speaker 1: and how to say it right. Um, So I'm gonna
10:12
Speaker 1: say it how it looks on paper, and then I'm
10:14
Speaker 1: gonna backtrack and find the pronunciation and say, I actually
10:17
Speaker 1: swopos to pronounce it, but on paper it looks like
10:19
Speaker 1: absaroka yep, but I believe it's abs sorca ab sorca
10:24
Speaker 1: abs sorca. So like you know, if you're looking at pronunciation,
10:26
Speaker 1: guys like ab lowerks dash capital sort for the for
10:31
Speaker 1: the emphasis and then uh absorca um. And this revolves
10:38
Speaker 1: around New Deal politics. What's new deal politics? Then New
10:44
Speaker 1: Deal politics. It's it's an umbrella term that describes a
10:48
Speaker 1: series of different programs and public works policies, and then
10:52
Speaker 1: also financial reforms that occurred from three to nineteen thirty six.
10:59
Speaker 1: Very dr yeah, very popular with the poor and disenfranchise,
11:03
Speaker 1: largely unpopular with the wealthy and delete yeah. It's sort
11:08
Speaker 1: of smacks of like socialism in a way, Like I
11:10
Speaker 1: think it gets a bad rapper people sort of use
11:13
Speaker 1: the the S word when describing it that they're you know,
11:16
Speaker 1: trying to abuse it. Right. So, this particular state that
11:21
Speaker 1: Never was revolves around New Deal politics and the fine
11:25
Speaker 1: people of South Dakota, Montana and Wyoming. Right. So, Um,
11:33
Speaker 1: there's a place called Sheridan, Wyoming. And back in nineteen
11:36
Speaker 1: thirty nine, on the cusp of World War Two, you
11:40
Speaker 1: had a state that was largely unconcerned or unaffected by
11:44
Speaker 1: these New Deal policies that were being put in place.
11:47
Speaker 1: And that's because they were an agrarian community. They they
11:52
Speaker 1: you know, actually, the way it's described in this incredible
11:55
Speaker 1: article from the New York Times called a state that
11:58
Speaker 1: never was in Wyoming, Um, they grew grass, which sounds
12:03
Speaker 1: really boring. Do you watch it grow like livestock? One
12:06
Speaker 1: would have me exactly. They are described as having a
12:09
Speaker 1: grass culture. Um. And there's a quote in this article
12:11
Speaker 1: from a guy named Ken Kerns, who is a rancher
12:14
Speaker 1: lived most of his life in this area, and he
12:17
Speaker 1: said the grass culture people who make a living from
12:20
Speaker 1: growing grass or from the animals that eat the grass.
12:24
Speaker 1: And that was what the idea behind this Obsorca community
12:28
Speaker 1: would be so you know, the folks of Wyoming, Um,
12:31
Speaker 1: there were there's obviously two sides of this. There's a
12:33
Speaker 1: more grarian side, and then you've got the southern part
12:36
Speaker 1: where you've got the railroad and that's where like the
12:39
Speaker 1: seat of government was, and apparently that's still You've got
12:43
Speaker 1: the other side that would have been more republican. And
12:45
Speaker 1: then the side that I'm talking about with the you know,
12:47
Speaker 1: the city centers and the more um the equivalent of
12:50
Speaker 1: an urban center in Wyoming, which isn't gonna be the
12:53
Speaker 1: same as you know, Atlanta or New York or Los Angeles.
12:56
Speaker 1: And those left wing liberals are controlling. They are a
12:59
Speaker 1: lot of the states economy. They are. But apparently the
13:01
Speaker 1: other folks and the other part of the country had
13:04
Speaker 1: been more typically Republican and they felt like FDR maybe
13:09
Speaker 1: could offer them something because, like you said, Ben, the
13:12
Speaker 1: depression had hit everyone and there was concern for what
13:16
Speaker 1: what are we gonna do to help, you know, make
13:18
Speaker 1: lemons into lemonade? So what happened? Can you take us
13:27
Speaker 1: back to the explosive tipping point moment in Sheridan, Wyoming, Yeah,
13:32
Speaker 1: I can. Um. Here is this guy by the name
13:35
Speaker 1: of A. R. Swickerd um and he uh had had
13:41
Speaker 1: a career in baseball. Um, I don't know if he
13:44
Speaker 1: was in like the farm leagues or I don't think
13:46
Speaker 1: he was in the majors, but i've i've i've read
13:48
Speaker 1: him describes there's not a whole heck of a lot
13:50
Speaker 1: about this guy. But he also was something called a
13:53
Speaker 1: street commissioner. You know what the street commissioner has been? Yeah, man,
13:56
Speaker 1: they commissioned streets. Okay, well it's it's like a you know,
14:01
Speaker 1: this is conjecture. If you are a street commissioner, please
14:04
Speaker 1: write in and tell us about your day to day job.
14:07
Speaker 1: From what our understanding. From my understand, at least, a
14:10
Speaker 1: street commissioner is kind of a manager of municipal affairs
14:14
Speaker 1: to some degree, right, I know, that's very vague. Yeah,
14:16
Speaker 1: I've got here on a kind of a career site.
14:20
Speaker 1: A job as a street commissioner falls under the broader
14:22
Speaker 1: career category of general and operations managers. Still vague. Sort
14:28
Speaker 1: of a city planner, I think, maybe kind of type
14:30
Speaker 1: city official exactly. So, this guy SWICKERD SWICKERD SWAGGERD Jimmy
14:35
Speaker 1: swagger SWICKERD A R. SWICKERD. Former baseball player former street commissioner.
14:39
Speaker 1: Now we know a little bit what that is. Um.
14:41
Speaker 1: He was kind of fed up with the way the
14:45
Speaker 1: money that was coming into improvement projects that the New
14:48
Speaker 1: Deal supported, like infrastructure and generated jobs by doing these
14:52
Speaker 1: big infrastructure improvements, whether it was roadways or railroads or
14:56
Speaker 1: anything like that. And that kind of infrastructure in Wyoming
15:00
Speaker 1: was on the other side went to the fat cat
15:02
Speaker 1: fat cats exactly. And it just there was a sense
15:06
Speaker 1: that the working types, like the you know, the rangers,
15:10
Speaker 1: that weren't getting any of this cash. They weren't getting
15:13
Speaker 1: any benefit from this New Deal stuff, so they were
15:15
Speaker 1: like what gives And this guy Swickert was able to
15:17
Speaker 1: kind of key in on that and start this movement. Right. Yeah,
15:22
Speaker 1: he appointed himself governor. Uh. He said that this area
15:28
Speaker 1: parts of Montana, South Dakota, and Wyoming a really strange
15:32
Speaker 1: selection of the parts, but it makes sense politically, politically
15:35
Speaker 1: and also in terms of like the the agg focus
15:39
Speaker 1: the demographics. So he declared Sheridan, Wyoming, the capital of
15:46
Speaker 1: Absoroka and s it's weird, it's it's counter into it.
15:51
Speaker 1: I keep I keep squeezing that second. Oh well, it did.
15:54
Speaker 1: Like in the New York Times article, at the very first,
15:56
Speaker 1: very first first PARAGRAPHIC gives it to you in full
16:00
Speaker 1: parentheses with the ab Sorca. And it is an Indian term,
16:05
Speaker 1: Native American term from tribe right, meaning children of the
16:09
Speaker 1: large beaked bird. So he just says, I'm governor. Now
16:13
Speaker 1: Sheridan is the capital. Come to me, people of this
16:15
Speaker 1: new state and tell me your grievances. And they did.
16:19
Speaker 1: They did, and it, um it started to pick up
16:21
Speaker 1: a little steam, right. But you know, like things tend
16:25
Speaker 1: to do with these high minded pie in the sky,
16:28
Speaker 1: you know, protesting kind of situations. It didn't quite work
16:31
Speaker 1: out the way he was planning. They got license plates
16:34
Speaker 1: though they had a beauty pageant. They had some stuff
16:37
Speaker 1: going on. Did you say beauty pageant? Already bade beauty
16:40
Speaker 1: page This is this is the this is the great work,
16:42
Speaker 1: as we I think described in a previous episode. Um
16:46
Speaker 1: and yeah, but miss miss Absorca of nine would apparently
16:50
Speaker 1: be the last. But they did host a diplomatic visit
16:54
Speaker 1: from the King of Norway, classic supporter Sorka. Now, according
17:00
Speaker 1: to history, and it's interesting because this name Swiacker didn't
17:05
Speaker 1: just make it up. It is the name of a
17:06
Speaker 1: pre existing mountain range and one of the main reasons
17:10
Speaker 1: that we know about this today is due to, oddly enough,
17:15
Speaker 1: the New Deal, the Federal Writers Project, which was part
17:18
Speaker 1: of the FDR programs. That's right, But when when did
17:21
Speaker 1: this all fall apart? They never got approval or what
17:24
Speaker 1: do you call it? They didn't submit it to Congress,
17:26
Speaker 1: the citizens. It was very much a grassroots movement, because
17:31
Speaker 1: there was a grass culture talked about earlier. So that story,
17:36
Speaker 1: I I don't know, I find it inspiring. The determination, ambition,
17:41
Speaker 1: and sense of grandiosity it takes to one day get
17:43
Speaker 1: up and say, you know what, here's a new thing.
17:46
Speaker 1: I'm the governor. Oh, here's a good little little bit
17:49
Speaker 1: to wrap this one up on Um. A couple of
17:50
Speaker 1: quotes from Swicker and that really show that he had
17:53
Speaker 1: some he had some cones, he had he had some swagger. Um,
17:56
Speaker 1: he said, of of this effort, of this potential agglomerating
18:01
Speaker 1: of of these territories into a new state, he said, Um,
18:05
Speaker 1: when this thing was really starting to heat up, had
18:07
Speaker 1: some real legs and some hot movement was getting some
18:10
Speaker 1: press coverage. He said, we will make our own laws,
18:12
Speaker 1: just like the Wyoming legislators do. In the big hotel
18:15
Speaker 1: at Cheyenne, Right, uh, he said, I told the governor
18:20
Speaker 1: of our sister state to the south of Buffalo that
18:23
Speaker 1: we had no warlike designs and that the rumors we
18:26
Speaker 1: might succeed by force were erroneous. We ab absor Absorodin's
18:32
Speaker 1: Abstodins does stay sick here in the article. So maybe
18:35
Speaker 1: that's a misspeak. Um, But we are a peace loving lot,
18:39
Speaker 1: and while we think that we really need the state
18:41
Speaker 1: of Absorca, we are not inclined to revolution, right, so
18:47
Speaker 1: we're not going to go into a state of war
18:49
Speaker 1: over this now because they didn't have an army, it
18:52
Speaker 1: would have been a fool's errand my friend, yeah, but
18:57
Speaker 1: this is only one example, right. We again, as we
19:02
Speaker 1: said at the top, which now in retrospect, I think
19:04
Speaker 1: it was prescient and smart of us to put this in.
19:07
Speaker 1: As we said at the top, we can't do all
19:09
Speaker 1: of the would be states justice, But what do you say,
19:13
Speaker 1: toll we we spend some time running through some of
19:16
Speaker 1: the high points. It'll be a test of our brevity.
19:19
Speaker 1: What's your favorite? On a personal level, I and I
19:22
Speaker 1: think a lot of you can agree with me out here.
19:24
Speaker 1: The would be state of superior It was a movement
19:28
Speaker 1: that began in eighteen fifty eight to make Michigan's Upper
19:32
Speaker 1: Peninsula a different state. And the reason I think that's
19:35
Speaker 1: interesting is because growing up, like many kids in the US,
19:39
Speaker 1: I kept thinking, why are these two masses of land?
19:44
Speaker 1: They're completely separate. Why are they one state? It utterly
19:46
Speaker 1: makes sense because even the people that live there talk
19:48
Speaker 1: about the UP, you know, and the is there a
19:51
Speaker 1: lower peninsula per Penincila? Yeah, the up Upper Peninsula? But
19:54
Speaker 1: what what do they call the other one? They call
19:56
Speaker 1: it that, that's just the LPs LP were not Michigan
19:59
Speaker 1: or when Michiganders. Those are people who look at Michigan
20:03
Speaker 1: but no. And and and also like it's proximity to Canada
20:06
Speaker 1: is really interesting, and it totally when you look at
20:09
Speaker 1: it on the map, the UP as they call it,
20:11
Speaker 1: does have its own distincts look and borders. Yeah, and
20:16
Speaker 1: this state again, this proposal was put on ice because
20:20
Speaker 1: of the Civil War. Other people tried to propose the
20:23
Speaker 1: same thing in eight and even as recently as nineteen
20:26
Speaker 1: sixty two, when the Macinac Bridge was open and connected
20:29
Speaker 1: the peninsula to the rest of Michigan, people said, okay,
20:33
Speaker 1: it can be one state. What about you what's something
20:36
Speaker 1: really stood out to you? Well, last thing, though, is
20:38
Speaker 1: with that one? Is it? It's come up multiple times,
20:40
Speaker 1: and a big part of why it was considered viable
20:43
Speaker 1: was because the Upper Peninsula was a huge supplier of
20:46
Speaker 1: copper in the eighteen sixties. But then, of course, like
20:49
Speaker 1: like you said, the Civil War kind of ground things
20:51
Speaker 1: to a hall. But the conversation did come up a
20:54
Speaker 1: few other times. Um, I am a fan of tex Lahoma.
20:59
Speaker 1: Oh yes, uh, where the corn is as high as
21:02
Speaker 1: a portmanteau's eye and the wind goes sweeping down the
21:06
Speaker 1: I don't know, something else some other portmant too. Yeah,
21:09
Speaker 1: we have to find like three different geographically. We don't
21:12
Speaker 1: have time. We're trying to laundry lit right into us
21:13
Speaker 1: with your suggestions. Tell me a little bit about tex Lahoma,
21:17
Speaker 1: my friend. Well, my friend, it's all about the the automobile.
21:21
Speaker 1: Are you familiar with this innovation? Vaguely? I've heard good things. Yeah,
21:25
Speaker 1: you're still driving the Monte Carlo. I do, I do
21:28
Speaker 1: drive the Money Carlo. Well, Um, this is around World
21:31
Speaker 1: War two, our pre world. It's just pre World War
21:33
Speaker 1: two cars were hot commodity. Everybody had to have one.
21:37
Speaker 1: But the road systems were pretty terrible right before the
21:42
Speaker 1: Interstates constructed, before the New Deal we're talking about earlier, right,
21:45
Speaker 1: big big change there. Um, so, especially in more rural parts. Um, like,
21:51
Speaker 1: you have your Texas and your Oklahoma Northern and western respectively,
21:56
Speaker 1: horrible horrible road conditions right, um, and no one was
22:00
Speaker 1: doing anything about it. So there was this proposal to
22:03
Speaker 1: combine these regions into Texahoma. Is that a portmanteau? Yeah? Yes, okay,
22:09
Speaker 1: good good good good. Um So yeah, technically, if there
22:14
Speaker 1: was this new state and they were able to control
22:16
Speaker 1: their own interests, they would, in theory have the ability
22:20
Speaker 1: to improve their their infrastructure, um, separate from the again,
22:25
Speaker 1: the fat cats in Austin or Oklahoma City, those overfed
22:32
Speaker 1: badgers in the in the big towns. Yeah, they felt
22:37
Speaker 1: like they would be able to have better representation. Let's
22:40
Speaker 1: local level. Well, there there's a problem, right, you could
22:44
Speaker 1: see the need for local legislation. That all sounds well
22:47
Speaker 1: and good, but the chief problem, at least according to
22:51
Speaker 1: a pretty funny article we found on mental flaws called
22:54
Speaker 1: law States Texlahoma, the chief problem was that the proposals
22:59
Speaker 1: to split Texas would make the residents of the new
23:02
Speaker 1: state no longer Texans, and that was a big problem
23:05
Speaker 1: to the voting popular. It's not gonna fly a Texan.
23:08
Speaker 1: That's a that's a badge of honor, right, my friend.
23:12
Speaker 1: For that reason, people would say, well, we are you
23:15
Speaker 1: know what, we want our own thing, but we still
23:17
Speaker 1: want to be Texans. Yeah for sure. So okay, in
23:20
Speaker 1: the interest of getting to an amazing segment we have
23:22
Speaker 1: coming up, I just want to list off a few
23:24
Speaker 1: more kind of silly names without giving you much of
23:27
Speaker 1: anything on them, and you can go look up. Let's
23:29
Speaker 1: go back and forth. Let's do it, all right, Uh,
23:31
Speaker 1: desiret the Salt Lake City Basin mid eighteen forties, Church
23:35
Speaker 1: of Latter Day Saints, Boom, and Nika Jack. I love that.
23:41
Speaker 1: Just leave that, just just you know, do you do
23:43
Speaker 1: your homework, Nika Jack. Transylvania true story, Yeah, the unofficial
23:47
Speaker 1: fourteenth colony completely separated from Vlad the Impaler. And and
23:52
Speaker 1: then the incredibly unpoetic name del Marva. Yeah, del Marva
23:56
Speaker 1: just kind of kind of clunky, right, all right, listen,
24:03
Speaker 1: we have squandered too much time, um, so much fun
24:07
Speaker 1: stuff here. You should look some of these up for yourself.
24:08
Speaker 1: But we do have one really really cool in my opinion,
24:12
Speaker 1: and been a long time coming. Segment here the third
24:16
Speaker 1: installment ever of extra credit. Yes, ridiculous Historians, it is
24:26
Speaker 1: time for extra credit, where we go a little bit
24:30
Speaker 1: above and beyond what you would see in a typical episode. Uh.
24:35
Speaker 1: You see, folks, we're not just looking at these would
24:39
Speaker 1: be states from an abstract perspective. We went out and
24:43
Speaker 1: got ourselves somewhat of an expert. Fellow, ridiculous Historians, we
24:47
Speaker 1: would like to introduce you to retired Colonel Gladwin Bolland, who,
24:52
Speaker 1: among many achievements, uh, happens to be my dad. Okay, man,
24:57
Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna like not even mention the
24:59
Speaker 1: fact that he was your dad, and that would have
25:00
Speaker 1: been a little strange, but I was gonna roll with it. Okay.
25:03
Speaker 1: I thought we weren't going to mention that I was
25:05
Speaker 1: a retired colonel, but well, you know, I'll go with both. Okay,
25:08
Speaker 1: all right, Dad, Well I hope I haven't given away
25:10
Speaker 1: too much of of your past adventures. But first, Nolan,
25:15
Speaker 1: I would like to thank you so much for coming
25:17
Speaker 1: onto the show. Now, our family is native to Tennessee, right,
25:22
Speaker 1: that's correct, and we have we have a story in
25:26
Speaker 1: Tennessee history about a state that almost existed and isn't
25:31
Speaker 1: around today. Could you tell us a little bit about
25:34
Speaker 1: this place. Well, it was called the state of Franklin, Uh,
25:39
Speaker 1: and really existed from about seventeen ninety four to seventeen
25:43
Speaker 1: ninety nine, about four and a half years. But before
25:46
Speaker 1: we get started on that, let me say two historians
25:49
Speaker 1: out there that might be listening in. Uh, look, if
25:53
Speaker 1: I'll leave out something, trust me, You're right I did
25:56
Speaker 1: because we couldn't possibly cover all you clearly never listened
26:00
Speaker 1: to the show before this is m trust me. Everyone
26:04
Speaker 1: understands that this is a convoluted miss. Also, Uh, if
26:10
Speaker 1: you think that I didn't get something right, well that
26:14
Speaker 1: depends on who you are, if you're a Tiptonite or
26:19
Speaker 1: if you're a frank So I'm intrigued, So let me
26:23
Speaker 1: say some more about that in a few minutes. But uh,
26:27
Speaker 1: just suffice to say now that history is written by
26:30
Speaker 1: who the winners. There's no clear winner here. There's also
26:35
Speaker 1: no state of Franklin. That's right, that's right, but there
26:38
Speaker 1: is a state of Tennessee. Now let me set the
26:40
Speaker 1: stage here. Look, you know, we don't appreciate the world
26:44
Speaker 1: we live in right now. Imagine if you lived in
26:48
Speaker 1: a land where the government wasn't a clear thing. There
26:53
Speaker 1: were multiple governments, some multiple people in charge who had
26:57
Speaker 1: authority win and where, and there were lots of players.
27:02
Speaker 1: There was the United States, Oh, but it really was
27:06
Speaker 1: the first confederacy because it was organized then under the
27:10
Speaker 1: Articles of Confederation. Then there was the state of North Carolina.
27:15
Speaker 1: Then over the mountain lands there were the people called
27:20
Speaker 1: the Tipton Knights, who followed a man named Tipton, oddly
27:24
Speaker 1: enough in a sheriff named pew Uh. And then the
27:28
Speaker 1: people who were called Frank's because they wanted the state
27:32
Speaker 1: of Franklin. And they were led by a guy named
27:34
Speaker 1: John Severe. So they're not called the Severians. That would
27:38
Speaker 1: be pretty severe, now, wouldn't it. So anyhow, Uh, But
27:43
Speaker 1: let's go back even further than that to UH seventy
27:48
Speaker 1: is the Revolutionary War. And in the South uh the
27:54
Speaker 1: uh British forces didn't always use British forces. They used Tories.
28:01
Speaker 1: There was a major who was given the order of
28:05
Speaker 1: Major Fergusson got the order to organize a group of
28:09
Speaker 1: Tories and to march through South Carolina into North Carolina.
28:15
Speaker 1: A group of people came over to meet these guys
28:18
Speaker 1: called the over the Mountain Men, which meant they lived
28:22
Speaker 1: over the mountain from established North Carolina into the Free counties,
28:29
Speaker 1: and they met Ferguson's people at the Battle of King's Mountain,
28:34
Speaker 1: killed Ferguson and just whiped the slate clean, killed many
28:40
Speaker 1: fellow American known as Tories, who of course supported the king.
28:44
Speaker 1: That was the first time that North Carolina population really
28:48
Speaker 1: understood that there were people living on the other side
28:51
Speaker 1: of the Appalachian Mountains that were also North Carolina citizen.
28:54
Speaker 1: Didn't have the Internet, you know, no intervet, nobody called
28:58
Speaker 1: nobody road, you know. So that was the first time
29:02
Speaker 1: that they even really realized there were people over there.
29:06
Speaker 1: That's interesting concept, but until they makes sense. Yeah, they
29:09
Speaker 1: were just that isolated. So it was the over the
29:12
Speaker 1: Mountain Men that sort of introduced this land on the
29:16
Speaker 1: other side of the mountain. Then after the war, four
29:21
Speaker 1: US forms the Confederation and what is everybody doing there?
29:27
Speaker 1: Being broke the war was expensive, so North Carolina said, hey,
29:33
Speaker 1: tell you what, We'll give back all the land that's
29:36
Speaker 1: on the other side of the mountains twenty nine million
29:40
Speaker 1: acres and take that as our payment of our part
29:43
Speaker 1: of the debt of the warden. Ok Okay, you know
29:48
Speaker 1: what the United States did with that good deal? What
29:51
Speaker 1: did they do? Nothing? They left it there, really, so
29:56
Speaker 1: the people on the other side of the mountain were
29:58
Speaker 1: getting nervous, right there was even tall so uh the
30:01
Speaker 1: US might even sell it to Spain or France to
30:04
Speaker 1: get the money. So I would they expected to have
30:08
Speaker 1: done with it, Like you said, they did nothing with it.
30:11
Speaker 1: What should they have done with it? Well, you know,
30:13
Speaker 1: I didn't live there, so I don't know. But there
30:18
Speaker 1: you go. There's some up there now, just to develop
30:20
Speaker 1: it in some way, in some way. But the reason
30:25
Speaker 1: the US didn't want to do anything with it they
30:27
Speaker 1: thought the cost of governing that piece of land would
30:31
Speaker 1: be more than it would be worth. There wasn't any
30:33
Speaker 1: There wasn't any uh great, nobody had any great ideas
30:37
Speaker 1: of what to do with that whind so they didn't
30:39
Speaker 1: do anything about it. North Carolina took it back, okay,
30:43
Speaker 1: in the same year. But you know what the people
30:46
Speaker 1: that lived over there said, Gee, you know, we're not
30:50
Speaker 1: some of them at least said we're not real comfortable
30:52
Speaker 1: with this. They want to give us away? Then nobody
30:54
Speaker 1: wants us. They want to sell it. Nobody wants us.
30:58
Speaker 1: So what did they do? They did a while A
31:00
Speaker 1: lot of people didn't know as they formed their own government.
31:03
Speaker 1: Really okay, they said local representation is best, and so
31:07
Speaker 1: in Jonesboro, the town of Jonesborough, they formed their own government.
31:12
Speaker 1: Now forget the fact that two blocks down the road,
31:16
Speaker 1: literally two blocks North Carolina had an administrative office to
31:22
Speaker 1: run that area. And maybe it was a rough couple
31:24
Speaker 1: of blocks. Yeah, I guess it was. But they also
31:28
Speaker 1: drafted their own constitution, which had some good ideas like
31:32
Speaker 1: no lawyers, no preachers, and no doctors could hold office.
31:36
Speaker 1: Really interesting. Yeah, uh, it was never adopted by that
31:42
Speaker 1: they drafted that constant. Yeah, well, you know, it was
31:47
Speaker 1: a good idea. Isn't part of the story too, though,
31:49
Speaker 1: that there was kind of a conspiracy where certain officials
31:52
Speaker 1: like had something to gain by the sale of this land.
31:55
Speaker 1: I was reading somewhere that when it was sold, it
31:57
Speaker 1: was actually sold to high ranking members of the state
32:00
Speaker 1: government and then given to the U. S Government with
32:03
Speaker 1: the understanding that people would actually profit from it. There
32:06
Speaker 1: was always a backdoor deal there, of course, And again
32:10
Speaker 1: that's some of the details that I'm leaving out here
32:12
Speaker 1: because even that story drills down a long way. In
32:16
Speaker 1: seventeen five, this group did apply for statehood. The state
32:21
Speaker 1: of Franklin applied for statehood. Would that be to the
32:24
Speaker 1: federal government, not federal government, Confederated government, and the Confederated
32:31
Speaker 1: government turned it down with only seven states approving. They
32:36
Speaker 1: needed to thirds, and so technically I guess that would
32:40
Speaker 1: have been about nine of the thirteen states would have
32:44
Speaker 1: had to approve, but only seven approved, so they didn't.
32:48
Speaker 1: They didn't get the statehood in seventeen eighty five. If
32:52
Speaker 1: they had, they would have been the fourteenth state of
32:55
Speaker 1: the Union, which is crazy because from what you're describing,
32:58
Speaker 1: if we look at the math, that means is that
33:00
Speaker 1: the state of Franklin was two votes away from existing.
33:03
Speaker 1: That's correct at that point. And John Severe was really
33:07
Speaker 1: disappointed with that, so he wrote a letter to who
33:11
Speaker 1: Ben Franklin. Hey, Dr Franklin, Uh, could you use some
33:17
Speaker 1: of your influence? And Franklin wrote back, and it's really
33:22
Speaker 1: interesting with the language they used in those days, but
33:26
Speaker 1: he basically said, look, I really appreciate it that she
33:30
Speaker 1: names state after me, but I got no clue how
33:33
Speaker 1: to help you out. So they were trying to appeal
33:35
Speaker 1: to him with flattery by naming the state. Absolutely that
33:38
Speaker 1: that was part of the play there. He did say,
33:43
Speaker 1: if I think of anything that might help you out,
33:45
Speaker 1: then yeah, I'll I'll holler back at you. Because he
33:49
Speaker 1: was a man with a pretty high opinion of himself.
33:52
Speaker 1: I bet I bet he could be applied with that
33:54
Speaker 1: kind of flattery. But if he didn't have anything to offer,
33:56
Speaker 1: he didn't have any to offer. Well, you know, there
33:58
Speaker 1: was the idea of how much political capital that was
34:01
Speaker 1: going to cost him. I'm sure it was in his head.
34:05
Speaker 1: So the country was just sort of drifting at that point,
34:09
Speaker 1: particularly this over the Mountain people, and so they just
34:14
Speaker 1: sort of kind of operated as their own independent government
34:17
Speaker 1: parallel to the North Carolina government. So just no one cared,
34:20
Speaker 1: No one cared. But we had another one of those
34:23
Speaker 1: in and the ones we were talking about earlier, where Scott,
34:26
Speaker 1: I think it was independent independent state of Scott existed
34:30
Speaker 1: for like a hundred and twenty seven years. Because it
34:33
Speaker 1: was Tennessee as well, they didn't care. Nobody noticed, well
34:39
Speaker 1: what happened here. They did move their state capital to Greenville.
34:45
Speaker 1: The Franklin folks did, And the reason they did that
34:49
Speaker 1: was because they finally decided that being two blocks down
34:53
Speaker 1: from the North Carolina office was not that good a
34:56
Speaker 1: deal with Jonesborough, so they moved to Franklin. But in
35:00
Speaker 1: this all came to a head because John Severe was
35:03
Speaker 1: forever in trouble. He wouldn't pay North Carolina taxes. So
35:08
Speaker 1: this sheriff named Pugh seized his property uh on behalf
35:12
Speaker 1: of North Carolina, which unfortunately included some slaves. John Severe
35:17
Speaker 1: wanted that back. Uh. He organized an army and attacked
35:23
Speaker 1: the uh Tipton Nights at Tipton's farm near Johnson City,
35:29
Speaker 1: Tennessee and what it would become Johnson City, Tennessee. And
35:35
Speaker 1: this battle went on for a raging ten minutes, about
35:39
Speaker 1: a hundred guys against a hundred guys, of which three
35:43
Speaker 1: Tipton Knights were killed. Uh Tipton wanted the head of
35:47
Speaker 1: John Severe, or even better, the head of John Severe Jr.
35:51
Speaker 1: All of who participated in that battle. Um. But what
35:56
Speaker 1: happened is John Severe withdrew and the next year things
36:01
Speaker 1: just drifted along. Next year, here come the Indians. Okay,
36:06
Speaker 1: there was a guy named Dragon Canoe who was an
36:09
Speaker 1: Indian chief that never agreed with anything with even with
36:14
Speaker 1: the other uh Native Americans. The Cherokee were as segmented
36:20
Speaker 1: as everybody else. But they started attacking the white settlements
36:26
Speaker 1: and Severe needed help because his people were getting beat up.
36:31
Speaker 1: Couldn't get any help from North Carolina. The United States
36:35
Speaker 1: has broke. He asked Spain for loan. Then he asked
36:39
Speaker 1: Spain to just take over the area, just running like
36:43
Speaker 1: an unclave. That's right, It wasn't that kind of what
36:46
Speaker 1: they were fearing in the first place, was like having
36:49
Speaker 1: a foreign control over Yeah, this lands, absolutely, but you
36:53
Speaker 1: know what they feared, Indians more, care the American natives more.
36:57
Speaker 1: When you first said the name of this this Native American,
36:59
Speaker 1: I pictured dragon canoe like a like a dragon canoe.
37:04
Speaker 1: He was dragging the canoe very basically, yes, but at
37:09
Speaker 1: any right, what ended up happening is that North Carolina
37:14
Speaker 1: arrested John Severe for treason basically. Okay, I mean that's
37:18
Speaker 1: probably what would happen if I or Noels successfully tried
37:22
Speaker 1: to sell some piece of like if we tried to
37:26
Speaker 1: sell Atlanta to uh listening to my country to I
37:30
Speaker 1: don't know Norway, whoever has the best offer. I don't
37:35
Speaker 1: think the Norwegians would be pretty agreeable to do deal with.
37:39
Speaker 1: They seemed pretty relatively chill. Nobody tell them about the
37:41
Speaker 1: summer here. Well, there you go. At the end of
37:44
Speaker 1: all of this push and shove, they couldn't really take
37:49
Speaker 1: the head of John Severe. So you mean this figuratively
37:53
Speaker 1: or like they wanted that that his head the tip
37:56
Speaker 1: Many of the tip to Nites wanted to hang him. Okay,
38:00
Speaker 1: But what ended up is that North Carolina allowed John
38:04
Speaker 1: Severe and the rest of the Franks to swear allegiance
38:08
Speaker 1: to North Carolina. And that ended the state of Franklin,
38:14
Speaker 1: but it didn't end the idea of a separate state.
38:18
Speaker 1: And so down in Severe count what is now Severe County,
38:23
Speaker 1: they formed the Lesser Franklin government called Lesser Franklin, and
38:28
Speaker 1: they did that strictly to campaign for a new state.
38:34
Speaker 1: Oh wow. And so in the end, what North Carolina
38:39
Speaker 1: accepted that Rhode Island approved the constitution in seventeen ninety.
38:46
Speaker 1: So we went under the new constitution. Uh, and the
38:50
Speaker 1: territory that would eventually be called Tennessee, and that's another
38:55
Speaker 1: story we don't have time for became the sixteenth state.
39:00
Speaker 1: So you're gonna ask me who was the fourteenth state,
39:03
Speaker 1: a free republic called Vermont voted to join the Union.
39:08
Speaker 1: That's right, we did an episode of OK and then
39:12
Speaker 1: and then the fifteenth state was Kentucky, just because they
39:16
Speaker 1: got their stuff together sooner. Now let me let me
39:20
Speaker 1: close this out with just a few facts. Ben, you
39:23
Speaker 1: don't know this, but you can be a member of
39:28
Speaker 1: the First Families of Franklin. Oh cool? Wait, does that
39:34
Speaker 1: like you personally been won? Get you it won't get
39:38
Speaker 1: you a Hamburger anywhere, And get you a little certificate,
39:41
Speaker 1: one of which your mom has because, uh, some of
39:45
Speaker 1: your ancestors were lived in East Tennessee during the state
39:51
Speaker 1: of Franklin. Can I also nominate friends and family for membership?
39:55
Speaker 1: Not sure, I'm gonna write to him. No, only you
39:57
Speaker 1: want to be an honorary member of this I love honorary.
40:00
Speaker 1: Done well, they won't let me in because I'm I'm
40:02
Speaker 1: a my loungeon. You know. We came in sevent hundred
40:08
Speaker 1: to Newman's Ridge. Uh the over the Mountain Men that
40:15
Speaker 1: I talked about. Who was among those? But one of
40:17
Speaker 1: the commanders was a guy named John Severe The over
40:20
Speaker 1: a Mountain Men. Another soldier in that group was John Crockett.
40:26
Speaker 1: His son Davey is better known now. Also speaking better
40:33
Speaker 1: known would be who's the best known, uh person from
40:40
Speaker 1: Severe County? Not John Severe, as someone who the first
40:44
Speaker 1: governor of Tennessee was Very few people would say John Severe,
40:48
Speaker 1: but that is who it was. But if you were
40:52
Speaker 1: to say Dolly Pardon, yes, Dolly Pardon grew up in
40:57
Speaker 1: Severe County. Is a descendant of John Severe here and
41:00
Speaker 1: a member of the descendants of John Severe. And one
41:05
Speaker 1: last thing, John Severe did lose his head. Really in
41:10
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, my dad made a statue. My dad
41:14
Speaker 1: was a sculptor. He made a ten ft marble statue
41:18
Speaker 1: of John Severe. For the longest time it was in
41:21
Speaker 1: a bank, but in the nineteen eighties that got moved
41:24
Speaker 1: to the Knoxville, Tennessee World's Fair Park. During a University
41:31
Speaker 1: of Tennessee pledge week, someone cut the head off of
41:36
Speaker 1: John Severe. That's messed up. It's a one hundred thousand
41:39
Speaker 1: dollar statue, but the head went missing. So how much
41:43
Speaker 1: you thing the head would have been worth on its own,
41:45
Speaker 1: who knows. But it's in some play in some fraternity
41:49
Speaker 1: house probably, I guess. And nothing again along with some
41:51
Speaker 1: Pilford like road sign. Yeah, it's probably out there, but uh,
41:57
Speaker 1: you know, the Tipton Knights would be happy to hear.
42:00
Speaker 1: Or that John Silvere fondly lost his head and what's that.
42:04
Speaker 1: That's about all I got to say. Man, that's that
42:06
Speaker 1: was plenty and all fascinating, and we are really grateful.
42:10
Speaker 1: I'm personally grateful for you coming and telling us the story. Yeah,
42:13
Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on the show. Dad. This
42:16
Speaker 1: has been extra credit and that at the end of
42:24
Speaker 1: the segment, but not the show. We hope you'll join
42:26
Speaker 1: us next time for another episode of Ridiculous History. I'm
42:29
Speaker 1: not even sure what we're doing yet. I think let's
42:31
Speaker 1: just leave the teaser off this time and keep people's
42:33
Speaker 1: imagination trying. Let's keep the mystery, you know. In the meantime,
42:37
Speaker 1: we would like to hear from you. We want to
42:39
Speaker 1: hear your stories about local states that never were in
42:42
Speaker 1: your neck of the Global Woods. You can find us
42:45
Speaker 1: on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Of course. If you want
42:49
Speaker 1: to hang out with your fellow Ridiculous historians who are,
42:52
Speaker 1: in our collective opinion, the best part of the show,
42:55
Speaker 1: visit us on Ridiculous Historians. I just send us a
42:57
Speaker 1: request to join the group, and we will likely infirm
43:00
Speaker 1: said request unless you are some sort of war criminal, right, right, right.
43:05
Speaker 1: And of course, as we like to say at the
43:07
Speaker 1: end of every episode, it's time to give some credit
43:10
Speaker 1: and some thanks to super producer Casey Pegram, researcher Extraordinary
43:15
Speaker 1: Christopher Hasciotis, Alex Williams, who composed our theme music. Ben,
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Speaker 1: Thank you, Heyl. I'm so glad you brought this up.
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Speaker 1: Thank you for being you, and and and thank you,
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Speaker 1: m thank what should I call you? Gladwin? Is that okay?
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Speaker 1: That works for me? Thank you Gladwin. Thanks for joining
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Speaker 1: us on the show today. Yeah, it was a lot
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Speaker 1: of fun and everybody will see you next time.