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An update on MDOT’s work with Michigan Central and rail service to Toronto · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:07
  Jeff Cranson: Hello and welcome to the Talk ing Michigan Transportation Podcast.
• 0:10
  Jeff Cranson: I'm Jeff Cranson.
• 0:12
  Jeff Cranson: This is the first episode of 2026, and I'm pleased to have been able to speak with Peter Anastor, who directs MDOT's Office of Rail.
• 0:25
  Jeff Cranson: He offered an update with what I think are a lot of key points to know concerning the status of Michigan Central, the hub in Detroit that is going to soon be kind of a multimodal center with both passenger buses and passenger rail.
• 0:43
  Jeff Cranson: But I wanted him to set some expectations about how long all these things are going to take.
• 0:47
  Jeff Cranson: A lot of this is done with the help of a $10 million federal grant that was awarded to MDOT through the Federal Transit Administration and an additional $30 million in state funds.
• 0:58
  Jeff Cranson: So he talked about where things stand and what this means in concert with a plan to someday extend passenger rail service from Detroit to Toronto.
• 1:10
  Jeff Cranson: So basically, you could uh ride a passenger train from Chicago to Detroit, switch trains in Windsor, and then make your all the way to Toronto.
• 1:19
  Jeff Cranson: And I know that a lot of people are very excited about that possibility, but I wanted him to make clear what still needs to happen.
• 1:25
  Jeff Cranson: So I hope you enjoy the conversation.
• 1:27
  Jeff Cranson: Peter Anastor.
• 1:28
  Jeff Cranson: You have the honor, I hope, of being the first guest on the 2026 edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
• 1:38
  Jeff Cranson: Uh, I really wanted to talk to you after we did a call recently with Senator Slack and staff.
• 1:45
  Jeff Cranson: Um, they had a lot of questions about where things stand, both with the hub that we hope to establish, the multimodal hub at Michigan Central in Detroit.
• 1:53
  Jeff Cranson: But together with that is the discussion about extending passenger rail service from Detroit to Toronto.
• 2:01
  Jeff Cranson: So taking those things one thing at a time, just talk about uh, I guess first where things stand with the multimodal hub and you know the federal grant that's gonna help make that possible.
• 2:12
  Peter Anastor: It's great to be here and happy new year.
• 2:13
  Peter Anastor: And uh hopefully 2026 is a great year for rail.
• 2:18
  Peter Anastor: Yes.
• 2:19
  Peter Anastor: There is uh, you know, there's been uh I think a need by MDOT to really replace some of our facilities in the city of Detroit that house our um rail and inner city bus um operations.
• 2:33
  Peter Anastor: So it's a project that we've been um looking at for quite a few years on really looking at what the right location is in the city and and working with the city and the and the partners down there in Detroit and Southeast Michigan.
• 2:48
  Peter Anastor: And um when we started looking at you know options, you know, one of the things that was also happening at the same time was looking at our just rail services in general and how we wanted uh to look at some improvements and um some growth and expansion in our passenger rail service.
• 3:09
  Peter Anastor: So one of the uh the things that we've looked at is really um with that international service is where you know where would be a good location to house um a station for that service um because it doesn't align great with um our existing station up in New Center um in Detroit.
• 3:31
  Peter Anastor: So um in the past couple of years, we've had a lot of conversations with the folks at Michigan Central because they are really at the uh you know the gateway to the tunnel that would be used for that service.
• 3:45
  Peter Anastor: And in some of those conversations, they you know really shared their interest in and support of passenger rail and ensuring uh what was you know once Detroit's uh you know prime rail station could really be used for something like that again in the future.
• 4:03
  Peter Anastor: So so that was really encouraging.
• 4:05
  Peter Anastor: And um, when we started to to get more in-depth with conversations with them, it really um aligned well with this vision for MDOT, looking for a new, you know, um really multimodal um station facility in the city of Detroit.
• 4:22
  Peter Anastor: So those kind of discussions and and alignment really led us to uh to looking at that Michigan Central campus as a location uh for that multimodal station.
• 4:32
  Jeff Cranson: Real quickly, can you talk about why when this was initially looked at the new center area where the existing Amtrak station is north of downtown?
• 4:40
  Jeff Cranson: Um, there was a lot of discussion about that, but why Michigan Central um seems to be and there seems to be consensus that that's a better location.
• 4:49
  Peter Anastor: Yeah, I think there was uh a few reasons.
• 4:52
  Peter Anastor: Um, you know, one just being really the surrounding activities in in each one of those areas.
• 4:58
  Peter Anastor: So up at New Center, you know, there's uh some schools and universities around there.
• 5:04
  Peter Anastor: Um so there were some concerns, I think, from the city and and some of the neighborhood, you know, residents and and some of the you know folks that have, you know, schools and things in that area of you know what a new kind of you know multimodal facility would bring when you're adding, you know, inner city bus service to the rail service and and kind of growing both of those services.
• 5:28
  Peter Anastor: So I just think there were some concerns around you know the impacts of that and and some of the um you know capacity and congestion of that area um and how that might work.
• 5:41
  Peter Anastor: Um, so that really I think opened the the door to looking again at some alternative sites.
• 5:47
  Peter Anastor: I think the Michigan Central site aligns a little better.
• 5:51
  Peter Anastor: Um, I know there's uh a larger vision by Michigan Central of that whole area um around the Michigan Central station and what that may look like.
• 6:02
  Peter Anastor: And I think it just uh seemed like there was more support um from the city of Detroit and from the Michigan Central folks um and some of the stakeholders to really um you know seem to be a better fit at that location.
• 6:16
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:17
  Jeff Cranson: And that's uh that that's what the public involvement process is all about, right?
• 6:22
  Jeff Cranson: Taking in those comments and those considerations.
• 6:24
  Jeff Cranson: So I think I'd I'd say that the system worked.
• 6:27
  Peter Anastor: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:28
  Peter Anastor: And I think those partnerships is what is is really making this um you know project uh you know strong for success, is that you know, having the city Detroit and Michigan Central and MDOT, um and some of the some of the stakeholders really working together.
• 6:47
  Peter Anastor: And that you know, process started probably over a year ago, Jeff, at at this Michigan, you know, central location, um, really just looking at the feasibility of of some kind of uh intermodal, you know, multimodal station there.
• 7:02
  Peter Anastor: And in the past uh, you know, really a couple months, we've entered into uh a memorandum of understanding between those groups that really I think solidifies the commitment of that um project moving forward.
• 7:16
  Peter Anastor: And what that MOU is really going to do is it's gonna allow us to move forward on some of the preliminary engineering and and kind of preliminary design and environmental reviews that are gonna be needed at that location to really, I think, further um, you know, understand what that project's gonna entail, you know, what it might look like, you know, what are you know specific locations and how it's really gonna integrate, you know, into the rail and um, you know, the transportation systems around Detroit.
• 7:48
  Peter Anastor: So, you know, that MOU was entered into in October, and now we're working amongst those groups to really move forward to uh to find a contractor that's gonna really lead the efforts on that preliminary engineering and environmental review um aspects for that project.
• 8:07
  Jeff Cranson: So at the time that MOU was uh agreed upon and signed back in October, Governor Whitmer said her quote was today's MOU lays the foundation for a new multimodal transportation hub that will grow our regional economy, make downtown Detroit more vibrant, and connect residents and visitors to our communities.
• 8:25
  Jeff Cranson: It builds on a historic investment in transit that I signed in my seventh balanced bipartisan budget.
• 8:30
  Jeff Cranson: Let's keep getting it done.
• 8:31
  Jeff Cranson: I think that's exciting, ambitious um to people that are uh fans of uh multimodal transportation, both transit and rail.
• 8:42
  Jeff Cranson: Um, but your job is often setting expectations.
• 8:46
  Jeff Cranson: Um the you know the policymakers say things and uh make these kinds of uh broad sweeping promises and all in good faith because you know we're all involved in this and we want it to happen.
• 8:59
  Jeff Cranson: But talk about the challenges that you have when you have to go to to meetings and talk to people and say, look, this is complicated, it's gonna take time.
• 9:07
  Jeff Cranson: You know, does that does that wear you down?
• 9:09
  Peter Anastor: Yeah, it's you get used to it after a while.
• 9:12
  Peter Anastor: Um but you know, I think understanding that you can't just uh flip a switch and uh you know go to the local uh you know train store and buy a couple uh buy some train equipment and start running a service, right?
• 9:28
  Peter Anastor: So there's a lot that's entailed with that on the international service in particular, which again I think is is really well aligned with this Michigan Central site.
• 9:38
  Peter Anastor: Um, you know, you have things like customs and and border approvals that have to happen.
• 9:44
  Peter Anastor: Um and since that's an international service, you know, not only do we need some some infrastructure and facilities on the U.S.
• 9:52
  Peter Anastor: side of the border, there's also uh quite a bit of infrastructure needed on the on the Canadian side of the border to really, you know, seamlessly align um the Canadian station and and the Detroit station um to really make that a feasible and and viable project.
• 10:10
  Peter Anastor: Um so we've been having conversations with our partners in Canada.
• 10:15
  Peter Anastor: Um, Amtrak has as well.
• 10:18
  Peter Anastor: Um, we've been talking with uh US Customs Border as well as the Canadian customs and border.
• 10:24
  Peter Anastor: Um, but really, you know, we need to solidify uh agreements with all those parties, um, identify funding to make sure that we can get all that investment that's required funded and moving forward.
• 10:38
  Peter Anastor: Um, and those pieces are really still coming together.
• 10:41
  Peter Anastor: So, you know, as we look at this project, um, you know, at the earliest, I think we're talking, you know, 2029 is when we may have, you know, service operating between those two countries and you know, out of that facility at at Michigan Central.
• 10:58
  Peter Anastor: And that assumes, Jeff, that you know, things, you know, go smoothly and there's not, you know, a lot of you know hurdles or hiccups that come along um in the upcoming years here.
• 11:07
  Peter Anastor: I don't think there'll be any hurdles here.
• 11:11
  Peter Anastor: Yeah, smooth sailing.
• 11:11
  Jeff Cranson: Stay with us.
• 11:13
  Jeff Cranson: We'll have more on the other side of this important message.
• 11:19
  MDOT Announcement: Michigan law requires drivers to maintain at least 200 feet behind a snowplow when crews are plowing or treating roads and have their lights on.
• 11:27
  MDOT Announcement: This does not apply when passing the snow plow.
• 11:30
  MDOT Announcement: In addition, stay at least 20 feet away when the plow is stopped or at an intersection.
• 11:35
  MDOT Announcement: Failure to do so can result in a fine of $100.
• 11:38
  MDOT Announcement: The law is meant to ensure snowplow operators have the proper space and time to clear the roads.
• 11:44
  MDOT Announcement: This makes Michigan's roads and neighborhoods safer to drive on and walk around throughout the winter.
• 11:49
  MDOT Announcement: Always remember, snowplows need room to groom.
• 11:54
  Jeff Cranson: Talk about how that that would work.
• 11:56
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, not that you've been involved in an international rail, passenger rail crossing in the past, but um it would it would obviously rely on a you know more than 100-year-old tunnel that exists, uh rail tunnel from Detroit to Windsor, but it would also involve a partnership with via rail in Canada.
• 12:14
  Jeff Cranson: So when you talked about customs and border uh patrol and you know border considerations on the Canadian side, people would would the Amtrak train run through the tunnel and then passengers would disembark in Windsor and then board the via train?
• 12:31
  Jeff Cranson: Is that how it would work?
• 12:33
  Peter Anastor: Yeah, the vision would be that we would have the main um customs facility at the Windsor station and Amtrak.
• 12:42
  Peter Anastor: Um Amtrak is the one that has an agreement with CPKC, which is the railroad that owns the tunnel, um, to basically utilize that tunnel um for passenger rail services.
• 12:55
  Peter Anastor: So currently they only run you know freight services through that tunnel.
• 12:59
  Peter Anastor: Um so this would be you know additional trains that are going to run for passenger service.
• 13:05
  Peter Anastor: But yeah, heading, you know, heading eastbound from Detroit into Canada, that train would, you know, obviously uh originate in Chicago, um, is the vision and and would have its normal kind of stops in Michigan, um, including Detroit.
• 13:21
  Peter Anastor: And then that train would essentially go through the tunnel, um, stop at that Windsor station.
• 13:27
  Peter Anastor: And then those passengers would disembark in Windsor.
• 13:30
  Peter Anastor: Um they would clear through Canadian customs um at that new Windsor facility.
• 13:36
  Peter Anastor: And then at that point, they would transition to uh to a via train that would you know take them from Windsor on to uh other parts in Canada, eastbound up to Toronto and on the westbound route.
• 13:48
  Peter Anastor: So if you're coming from Canada to Detroit, again, you would you know be on via service um from Toronto um through Windsor and then disembark again in Windsor.
• 13:58
  Peter Anastor: You would then clear U.S.
• 14:00
  Peter Anastor: customs.
• 14:00
  Peter Anastor: So our our U.S.
• 14:01
  Peter Anastor: customs border agents would you know travel over to Windsor anytime we had a passenger rail service or a train.
• 14:09
  Peter Anastor: They would clear all those um passengers through customs.
• 14:13
  Peter Anastor: They would board then the Amtrak train um in Windsor.
• 14:17
  Peter Anastor: Um and then once that you know Amtrak train left the station, there'd be no further um customs activities um once they cross into the US or Detroit.
• 14:27
  Peter Anastor: So that that Detroit station stop would just be like a normal um station stop um on any other rail route.
• 14:34
  Peter Anastor: Um and we wanted that efficiency just to not have people clear customs twice.
• 14:41
  Peter Anastor: So, you know, if you drive across the bridge, it's kind of that same vision, right?
• 14:46
  Peter Anastor: Um, depending if you're going eastbound or westbound, you either clear Canadian customs or US customs.
• 14:51
  Peter Anastor: Um, and we wanted to have that same efficiency in in the rail service.
• 14:56
  Peter Anastor: So this was kind of the model that that worked best.
• 14:59
  Peter Anastor: And since Amtrak has the agreement with CPKC to take their trains into Canada.
• 15:04
  Peter Anastor: Um, this was really the most most viable and efficient way to do this.
• 15:08
  Jeff Cranson: Well, and it can be done pretty pretty smoothly, pretty seamlessly.
• 15:12
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, in Europe, you do this, you could go into several countries in the same day, right?
• 15:16
  Jeff Cranson: So they've managed to set up a really good system for that.
• 15:20
  Jeff Cranson: So talk a little bit more about what needs to happen on the the Amtrak side of things and and did the Canadian Pacific, Kansas City, Southern, I guess it's CPKC now, KC Limited, uh, did that recent consolidation factor into this one way or the other in terms of expediting the process?
• 15:41
  Peter Anastor: You know, I think that uh merger was a big reason that allowed Amtrak to have the opportunity to to kind of lay the groundwork for that agreement uh to use the tunnel.
• 15:53
  Peter Anastor: So as they were evaluating that CPKC partnership and the impacts around the country, I Amtrak and their foresight identified this as an opportunity, you know, to have as part of that agreement that Amtrak has with Canadian Pacific KC.
• 16:09
  Peter Anastor: So it was great they did that.
• 16:11
  Peter Anastor: It's you know, what's good for us is it's in it's in place.
• 16:14
  Peter Anastor: And what's also good for us is there's really not a lot of infrastructure that's needed at the tunnel, right?
• 16:21
  Peter Anastor: So it's an operating tunnel now and it carries freight, and there's you know not a lot that has to happen directly at the tunnel, which is which is really good news.
• 16:31
  Peter Anastor: So um it's good that that piece is is kind of in place.
• 16:34
  Jeff Cranson: So talk a little bit more about the the multimodal hub and what you see as a timeline for that to be fully functional.
• 16:42
  Peter Anastor: Yeah, I think you know, we'll probably spend the next year going through this preliminary engineering and and you know, NEPA environmental review.
• 16:49
  Peter Anastor: There is a federal grant that MDOT was awarded um for a you know a multimodal facility in Detroit.
• 16:57
  Peter Anastor: And we do have um FRA's approval essentially to, you know, to take that from a new center site to this Michigan Central site.
• 17:06
  Peter Anastor: But with that federal grant, there's some requirements around um environmental and and you know things that have to be evaluated as part of a project.
• 17:15
  Peter Anastor: So we'll probably spend the next year, you know, going through that process.
• 17:18
  Peter Anastor: But then after that, hopefully we'll have uh a design um and a budget more solidified on what that project's gonna cost and look like.
• 17:28
  Peter Anastor: And then, you know, we'll hopefully if you know everything looks good, we can move forward, you know, on constructing a facility at that point.
• 17:35
  Peter Anastor: Um, and that's probably another, you know, two-year process um to get through that.
• 17:41
  Peter Anastor: So, you know, again, I think we're looking at 28, 29 before, you know, all those pieces kind of come together, but we've got some good momentum now.
• 17:51
  Peter Anastor: And I think people are really excited about taking this next step.
• 17:55
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, no, I think so too.
• 17:56
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, I talked to a number of people that when they hear the prospect of being able to take a train to Toronto, get very excited about it.
• 18:04
  Jeff Cranson: And uh I would hope, suspect that there might be just as many people in Toronto or the various stops along the way, the cities in Ontario between Toronto and Windsor that feel the same way about coming to Detroit or Chicago.
• 18:20
  Jeff Cranson: What's the longer term prospects?
• 18:22
  Jeff Cranson: Uh there's been discussion about you know an Amtrak line from Detroit to Toledo.
• 18:28
  Jeff Cranson: Do you see that in the in the future?
• 18:31
  Peter Anastor: Yeah, there's, you know, right now we're in the middle of an FRA program called the Corridor Identification and Development Program or Corridor ID.
• 18:40
  Peter Anastor: And Michigan applied for all three of our Amtrak services in Michigan.
• 18:47
  Peter Anastor: So we have a service from Grand Rapids to Chicago, we have a service from Port Huron to Chicago, and then we have the service from Pontiac um to Chicago that passes through Detroit.
• 18:58
  Peter Anastor: Um, and that's where the international element would be.
• 19:02
  Peter Anastor: But luckily, Michigan was adopted or selected for all three of our services into that program.
• 19:08
  Peter Anastor: And we're really um going to take a look at all of our services and how we can improve reliability and efficiency on our services, um, as well as looking to expand and grow frequencies on those services.
• 19:23
  Peter Anastor: So that vision really looks at doubling all of our services.
• 19:28
  Peter Anastor: So um, you know, we have five round trips right now.
• 19:31
  Peter Anastor: Hopefully, when we have the full completion of that corridor ID, uh, we'll have up to 10 round trips um on our existing services.
• 19:40
  Peter Anastor: And then you mentioned uh, you know, a Detroit Toledo route.
• 19:45
  Peter Anastor: Um, that's actually uh a separate uh corridor project that uh was uh submitted in partnership with the Ohio Rail Development Commission that really would connect Cleveland, Toledo, and Detroit.
• 19:58
  Peter Anastor: So Ohio has the lead on that project, but we're, you know, very much a partner in that.
• 20:04
  Peter Anastor: That's a new corridor.
• 20:06
  Peter Anastor: So it's a little, um, it's going to be a little bit of a more of a process to kind of see that through.
• 20:13
  Peter Anastor: And um, since it's a new corridor, I don't really have a timeline on what that might look like.
• 20:18
  Peter Anastor: I think uh there's some basic elements on that project of you know, just routing and you know, working with the host railroads to understand, you know, where there may be capacity for something like that.
• 20:30
  Peter Anastor: But it is in that corridor ID program and it is uh an active project.
• 20:35
  Peter Anastor: So um that will certainly be part of the part of the mix as we look to grow um passenger rail service in in Michigan.
• 20:42
  Jeff Cranson: Well, you anticipated my follow-up because I was gonna ask about the prospect of being able to go to Cleveland by train from Detroit and see the Tigers beat the Guardians, just as we can go now to Chicago on either the pure market and see the Tigers beat the White Sox.
• 20:57
  Jeff Cranson: So I like that idea.
• 20:59
  Jeff Cranson: So thank you, Peter, for taking time to talk about this.
• 21:02
  Jeff Cranson: We'll be updating things along the way.
• 21:04
  Jeff Cranson: I just I want to continue to keep the excitement out there, but also set expectations.
• 21:09
  Jeff Cranson: And I know that's your goal as well.
• 21:11
  Jeff Cranson: So I appreciate it.
• 21:13
  Peter Anastor: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:13
  Peter Anastor: And whenever you want to uh check in on these projects, just uh let me know and we can uh we can share some updates for everybody.
• 21:20
  Peter Anastor: Sounds good.
• 21:22
  Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation.
• 21:25
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or BuzzSprout.
• 21:30
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and Jacke Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.