Latest / The Curve / Vic said no to Goldman Sachs and ended up making $400k by 26

Transcript

Vic said no to Goldman Sachs and ended up making $400k by 26 · The Curve

0:00
There is nothing more motivating than running your own business.
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I have worked so much harder than I probably ever worked in my corporate life.
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I was employee number 14.
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They gave the option to purchase shares.
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That $40,000 turned into nearly $400,000.
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I'd never been a minority in that sense.
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They've got about 30 men to remember.
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They're all in the same, all in the suits.
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They've got one female to remember.
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I'm really going to use this to my advantage.
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I remember giving myself little challenges of, right, this meeting, you can ask a question.
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Fear is growth.
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I went from like zero to a hundred pretty quickly.
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Money for me always meant independence.
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I've never regretted spending money on...
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The lowest point in my life money-wise was I remember feeling immense pressure of this has to work.
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I can't go home.
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I can't let this business fail.
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Everything felt all-encompassing.
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I don't know if you want to say this.
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Hi guys.
1:04
Hi there.
1:05
Victoria Harris.
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I'm going to get two of you.
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Two of us.
1:08
Oh gosh, pressure.
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So yeah, a couple of months ago in Sophie's Money Story episode, we unpacked what her first memories of money were, what she was like growing up, earning pocket money, uni experience, career experience, and then we've had so many requests to do the exact same with you.
1:23
And also the timing for this episode feels kind of perfect because when we recorded with Sophie, we couldn't give the news on the curve investment.
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Oh yes, absolutely.
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which we now can.
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So we're going to dive into that today.
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So to start off with, for anybody tuning into this podcast for the very first time, and for anybody that doesn't know you, top level, what is the curve and what is the curve investments?
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Oh, I thought you're going to be like, what were three words to describe yourself?
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A horrible question.
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So The Curve is a media platform that we created to educate women around financial literacy, investing, stock market, all of that kind of stuff.
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And it came about because I constantly had friends coming up to me being like, hey Vic, can you explain this?
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Can you explain this?
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And there was just like nowhere to go to learn.
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And we were like...
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So should we just start talking and record it?
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And so that's how The Curve Media started, which is this business.
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And then very excitingly, about a few months ago, we launched The Curve Investments, which is a way for the people in our community to invest so they can learn through The Curve Media and now they can invest through The Curve Investments, which is awesome because we're not really solving problems.
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the gender wealth gap if we're just educating.
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There needs to be an element of doing, and we just want women to grow their wealth.
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And you can't do that unless you have a place to invest.
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And there was nothing out there, to be honest.
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Honestly, if you could look at the background research that we did, it took so long.
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For a year, we were looking, okay, do we do a trading platform?
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Do we do a fund?
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Do we do...
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you know, some kind of app or something.
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Do we partner?
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Do we build?
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Like there was so many scenarios and we were like, let's create a fund.
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I've been a fund manager before.
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Let's create a fund that invests in global companies that our audience can invest in.
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So that's why we did it.
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Also, it's great because you can still do both.
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You can be educated and learn alongside you guys whilst also taking the plunge to actually invest at the same time.
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Totally.
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And now we can talk about the investments in the Curve Fund and we can educate.
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It's kind of like...
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very everything's kind of connective you've got a great ecosystem going yeah education so you can come in as a beginner and then you can actually learn and you can invest and then yeah so now like so managing the curve media and running with that and that's her skill set like she's been a producer for forever and then i am running the curve investments and we come together for the podcast perfect yeah
3:55
So for those who are new here, can you give an overview on what your relationship with money was like growing up?
4:01
Yes.
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Okay.
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I mean, throughout being on the podcast and learning that I've really unpacked this.
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I mean, when we first started the curve, I didn't even think that...
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growing up, like the relationship with money growing up impacts you in your later years.
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And like, I just didn't even think of it.
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And then we had so many experts on the podcast.
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I was like, oh, and you do this whole lot of self-reflection.
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Money for me always meant independence.
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I had an older sister.
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who had a job before I did and had her own money or got an allowance for my parents before I did.
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And so she had a lot more freedom because she had her own money.
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And I would always look at her and go, I want that.
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You know, I want to be like my older sister and I want to be able to go to the movies without asking my parents for money and like all of that kind of stuff.
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And then like even little things, I remember wanting to get like a Dolomix from my grandparents and like wanting to go to the dairy and get a good Dolomix.
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And they'd be like, no.
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And I'd be like...
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I always remember getting frustrated and I was like, if only I had my own dollar, you know, and so that kind of bred this whole narrative in me.
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Like I remember always trying to sell things, whether it's like clothes around the house or, you know, my sister went away to university when I was younger.
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And then I like she left some clothes at home and I put them on trade me and I was like, well, you don't want them.
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Anyway, little things like I always had this money equals independence, money equals freedom, like all of that.
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And look, that's like definitely carried through my life in terms of running my own business means having your own money, dictating how you live your life, having freedom, like everything moving up in my career when I was in finance.
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It's all about like, okay.
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Yeah.
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you know, if I get this job, then I can have the freedom.
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Yeah.
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In actual fact, it does.
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And for women in particular, having money does mean choice and freedom and how you live your life and power, essentially.
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So totally.
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You've spoken a little bit about, slash we've heard a little bit about your mum being an accountant.
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And I'm sure that obviously influenced you in one way or another.
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Was money something you spoke about openly in your family because of that?
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I think there was always money attached to money.
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everything, if that makes sense.
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Like it wasn't that things were scarce.
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Like we were in a very privileged position in that sense.
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But there was always an understanding that things cost money.
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You know, like you're going to a nice school, that costs money, therefore you should put in...
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you know, you should respect that.
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And like, I remember one day, you know, telling mum what I wanted to be when I was older.
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And one of her friends was like, oh, well, there goes a waste of an education, you know, and I didn't understand.
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I was like, the amount my parents had spent on a good education was the first time I was like, oh, the school I go to is actually really expensive.
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And therefore I need to like value that, you know, you know, if we went on holiday, it was like, okay, well, we're going to rent a house.
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We're not going to go overseas.
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We're going to rent a house in New Zealand rather than go, you know, and a lot, I went to a very privileged school and there
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expensive cars that were driven and holidays.
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And so I was surrounded by wealth, but also made aware that doing things costs money and buying things costs money.
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If you want to buy that, that those shoes or go to the movies, like that money has to come from somewhere.
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So either you get a job or, you know, we're going to give you a set amount a month when I was younger that I couldn't work.
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They were like, look, we'll give you this amount, but it has to last for the month and things cost money.
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You know, there was a very early age of like things cost money.
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I also think it kind of instilled a drive in me as well, being surrounded by a lot of wealth because, yeah, I could see the opportunities that came with that.
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I don't know.
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Yeah.
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Definitely.
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I've seen a lot of people online, like successful business owners who particularly put themselves in position, like, you know, pay more for rent or hang around circles so that they are driven to like want more and push it.
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And even when I walk around London and I'm like the wealth here is incredible.
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extreme, like out of this world.
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And like, there's this one street by my house and I walk down every day and they're the most beautiful houses.
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And I'm like, manifest, manifest one day, one day, one day.
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And like, look, I know that's very materialistic.
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No, that's inspiring.
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To have a social cue.
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I actually take myself to Kensington often and just walk around.
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I'm honestly not even joking.
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I just walk around and I'm like, wow.
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And it does make you feel like you want to push and do more and like inspiring.
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And it is like surrounding yourself with smart people and all of that.
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Like, yeah, putting yourself in those situations.
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So now moving on to young adult Vic.
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Oh my God, she was so innocent.
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Oh, I remember you saying after school, you tried to actually study law.
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But there was an exam that you took.
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I can't remember where you said this.
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There was a certain exam that you took and you thought that you had done really well in it.
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And then when the results came back, you were like, if I can't nail this after the amount of effort that I put in, then I'm just going to have to sack it in.
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And look, I didn't know anything about law.
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And I remember going to careers, like guidance, right?
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person at school and they were like oh you should do law and commerce i was like cool thank you like didn't even think what it was about or anything and i knew i liked commerce at school so i was like cool i get that i understand law yeah i was like how hard can it be side note this must be like a universal or like a universal new zealand experience because i had the exact same thing they were like you like english go and study law and i did the same thing and then i did a year and was like i hate this and i also was dating a guy at the time who was in law so i was like okay
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It's giving Legally Blonde.
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I know.
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Oh, my God, it is.
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And anyway.
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I think the thing with uni is, like, we get so hung up on, like, what we're choosing to do there.
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Or, like, even going to uni and everyone's like, oh, my God.
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It's like, honestly, some of the most incredible people that I'm friends with now took a year off and, like, travelled.
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And then, you know, like, but at the time, you're just like, oh.
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how am I going to spend my life?
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And it's like, no, no, it's just university.
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You're so young still.
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Anyway, I did law and commerce.
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And yes, you're right.
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I cannot tell you how much effort I put into law.
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Like commerce I got.
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I was like, sweet, nailed it.
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But law, I was like, I don't get this.
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And I remember sitting in the lecture theater and everyone's writing all these notes.
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And I'm just like...
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okay, I'll write notes, I don't even know.
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It's honestly a different language.
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And I tried so hard.
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I went to tutoring.
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I like everything.
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And I came back and I got a C on my exam.
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And I was like, I don't have another three years of that.
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That was one paper.
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I don't have another three years of this.
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So I was like, you know what?
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Know your strengths.
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Yeah.
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and ditched the law and just went to the commerce and so glad I did.
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I enjoyed it more.
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I could see the application of finance in real life.
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Just so much more enjoyable.
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Quite a mature decision to come to it at that age to be like, you know what, this isn't for me.
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I'm just going to swap.
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Yeah.
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And look, I mean, I say mature decision.
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I was probably like, you know what?
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I just want to have fun at university.
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And I put so much effort into this one paper.
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I don't want to do that for another four years.
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Law, passing, priorities.
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But it's really good learning of like, I tried my best.
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And I think that's really important with everything I do.
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It's like, okay, if you tried your best and you genuinely did and you don't get the result you want, like there's no harm in...
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channeling your energy in another direction or like when you don't try and you get a C or you know that's when you're like okay well that's on me it's not yeah yeah yeah yeah so then how did you transition from uni into your finance career the beginnings of your finance career did you take a gap straight out of uni did you go straight into it I got a job at Goldman Sachs
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whoa actually is yeah in New Zealand I got a job offer and but I had planned a kind of three or four month I think it was maybe three month trip around South America with my friends oh cool yeah and they wanted me to start straight away and I remember having this conversation my mom I was like but I've got my trip and she was like but this is an incredible job and I was like but I've got my iconic
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And I was like, there's no way I'm cancelling on my friends.
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And I can look back at it and laugh now, but I remember mum was so pissed off.
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And fair enough.
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But I think another lesson is just what's meant to be is meant to be.
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And I went and I had the most incredible experience.
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And I ran out of money halfway through.
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And it was like, I don't know, we were going to the most dangerous parts of South America.
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We had the best time.
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We were there over New Year's.
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It was so fun.
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I just think everything happens for a reason.
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And I decided to
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go on the trip and didn't get the job.
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And then I got an incredible job when I got back.
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To that point, that's probably was like the confidence that you needed to know that you could get another really good job.
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If you go off on a job there, like that is pretty epic.
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But it's also scary when you're young because you think –
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Everything seems so big at the time.
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Like every decision of do you travel, go to university or go straight into like work?
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Okay, do you get this job or this job?
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Like everything feels such a big deal and it's so not.
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I agree.
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And also the time that your inner job feels so short.
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You come out of uni and you're like, right, well, I've really not got long.
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I better make a decision now on what I'm going to do.
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Life is actually so bloody long.
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And like, I never thought I'd be where I am today.
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Like, it's so wild, but everything works in the way that it's supposed to.
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And I know that sounds a bit woo-woo, but I genuinely believe that every job you don't take, every like decision that you think is bad that you've made or like, it's all part of it.
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Totally.
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So no job at Goldman Sachs, but that's all right, because then you got your first job at Milford Asset Management.
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Yes.
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Walk us through the jump from getting coffee and answering phones at Milford to actually managing money.
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What did that climb look like?
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So I got back from South America and I was like, right.
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Let's lock in.
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I have no money and I need a job.
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I'll take anything I can get.
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No.
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And look, yeah, I remember going to this interview at this place.
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I had no idea what a fund was.
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And I remember texting a friend going, hey, have you heard of this company?
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What are they about?
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Like, because I said no.
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And they were like, he was like, it's really, really good company.
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How new was it?
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It had only been around a few years.
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I was employee number 14.
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And I think they're up to like 200 now or something.
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It's crazy.
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I remember getting the job and they were like, look.
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We need someone, yeah, you're right, answering the phones, getting the mail, like doing all of that stuff.
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And I was like, I've stood there for four years in finance to do this.
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It was actually such a blessing in disguise because I think I would have absolutely drowned if I'd gone straight to the investment team of learning everything around how a fund operates, the client side, like everything.
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It was an incredible team and they were just growing so quickly that they set up my interview and they were like, yeah, I'm going to do it.
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look, if you stay in this role for two years, we can guarantee you a spot in the investment team.
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Within, I think it was like six months, they were like, right, we've got a job in the investment team if you want it.
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And I remember my first day in the investment team, my boss dropped this book on my desk and was like, I don't want you to do anything until you finish reading this book.
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What was the book?
14:49
It was called One Up on Wall Street by Peter Lynch.
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Shall we all go and read it?
14:52
It's so old.
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Will it make us as smart as you?
14:54
It is.
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But I was like...
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I'm here to work I'm not here to read a book you know like and he's like I want you to highlight everything that you think's important and then come back to me and like summarize what he looked for in investments and it was actually a really good way to learn he was one of the most incredible investors and it was like how what what he looked at in investment and then kind of instilling that way of investing in me so anyway it was a really good learning experience though
15:19
Yeah.
15:19
And so swiftly into your six months in, very exciting, two years.
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At what point then, I guess, when you were in the investing team, did you start to notice that you were often one of the only women in the room?
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And how did that feel?
15:32
What was that like?
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Look, I didn't actually notice it straight away.
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I think, you know, coming from the kind of
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admin side of the office and everything and then kind of moving to the investment team.
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And we were still a small team, so it felt like everyone was one team.
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And then it wasn't until part of the investment team, they really encouraged you to go out and meet the companies that we're investing in.
15:56
So I was covering retail companies in New Zealand.
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So it's like the warehouse, Briscoe's, Hellenstein's Glassons, like all these really iconic retail companies in New Zealand.
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And so we were made to go out, visit the stores, visit the offices, you know, go and sit opposite their CEOs and, like, ask them about their growth strategy of their business, which is like a young 20-year-old.
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I'm like –
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hi.
16:23
But every public company is trying to sell their business to new investors, essentially, because that means their share price goes up.
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So their role as a salesperson, they want to take the meeting.
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And so they want you to be interested because you then might go and buy shares and then increase the share price.
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So a part of their role is speaking to investors.
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And so they're very open to it.
16:43
But what Milford didn't want us doing was kind of sitting behind a screen, punching numbers into spreadsheets and all of that.
16:48
They're like, anyone can do that.
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We need you to go out and
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pound the pavement as such.
16:54
So with a lot of that, they have these group meetings where they make it quite efficient for the CEOs of these companies.
17:01
And they're like, right, we're going to come and do a financial update.
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And we're going to get everyone who is interested in the stock or invest in the stock to come to those meetings.
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And we'll give one update to all of you, essentially.
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And you can ask questions and stuff.
17:12
And there was always these.
17:13
There's like all the time, all throughout the year, we go along to these meetings.
17:17
And I think it was at that point that I started realizing
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hang on, there's like 20, 30 people in this room.
17:23
I'm the only female.
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Or like one of the, there might be one other or something, you know?
17:27
And I was like, this is weird.
17:28
Then I moved to Sydney with Milford and it was multiplied even more.
17:33
You know, you had rooms of like 40 people and there was still like no woman or one other woman.
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And like we'd gravitate towards each other because we'd be like, hi, nice to meet you, you know?
17:44
And so, yeah, I started realizing probably a few years in
17:47
Did that affect your confidence or do you think it sort of, again, drove you to want to be more confident?
17:54
I'd never been a minority in that sense, you know, and I definitely, looking back on it now, sat in the corner a bit more or like would sit at the back or wouldn't ask a question, would just sit there and listen and kind of be a bit like behind the scenes.
18:09
But as I got more confident, I remember giving myself little challenges of, right, this meeting, you can ask a question.
18:16
Hmm.
18:17
You know, like never have you gone to a meeting, Vic, and been like, oh my God, that was such a stupid question that guy asked.
18:21
So just ask a question.
18:23
It's 20 seconds of fear, you know, and like I remember the first few times I was like, and I remember it was actually at a Michael Hill AGM.
18:31
So they had these annual general meetings and it's like all the investors can't with the update.
18:35
And I put my hand up and I just remember seeing my hand and going, oh my God.
18:38
I was like, oh, what's happened?
18:42
And then I stood up in front of like the most intimidating scenario and I was like, oh.
18:46
Hi, I'm Victoria.
18:48
I'm just wondering if you're going to... And I don't even remember that.
18:52
But again, two seconds.
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I know I'm going to feel anything of it.
18:55
20 seconds of fear.
18:57
Then I noticed myself, I was sitting more in the center and at the front.
19:01
And then I found, I was like, you know what?
19:04
I'm really going to harness this.
19:06
And I started introducing myself to all the CEOs.
19:10
And I was like...
19:12
There's only – they've got about 30 men to remember.
19:15
They're all in the same, all in the suits.
19:17
They've got one female to remember.
19:19
I love this.
19:19
And I'm going to introduce myself.
19:22
And then you start seeing them each year because they're updating you, you know, once a year, once a quarter.
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And you start seeing the same people and the same CEOs.
19:28
And I was like, hi.
19:30
And they're like, oh, Vic, good to see you.
19:31
And I'm like –
19:32
Yeah, so I went from like zero to 100 pretty quickly in terms of going from like so, so little confidence to like, I'm really going to use this to my advantage.
19:41
There's really good advice as well.
19:42
I always hear people saying you should do something that makes you scared every single day.
19:46
Honestly, I even try it now.
19:48
I'm trying to like Vic, if you're scared to make that phone call or you're scared to public speak, I know it sounds easy to say but not to do.
19:57
But yeah, if you do, like fear is growth.
20:00
Yeah.
20:00
Yeah.
20:00
You know, and I'm just like so glad I didn't keep sitting in the back of those rooms.
20:05
So you've spoken a little bit about it.
20:06
And of course, because it was a, I guess, a startup when you started working there.
20:10
So equity in the business was put on the table, so to speak.
20:16
How did that come about and how did that look for you?
20:18
As part of being one of the early employees, we got a salary that would get paid each month.
20:24
But also part of that, because the business was so new, they gave staff the option to purchase shares as well.
20:32
And look, I love it.
20:34
It's a great initiative because it means that people are in for the long haul.
20:38
And it did create – the staff turnover at that company was so low because people are incentivized.
20:44
Okay, well, if I generate good performance, it's not just for the owners of the business, actually for me, myself.
20:52
Or if you're on the client side, cool, if I retain this client, then that actually benefits me in the long run.
20:57
All these things, it creates a real sense of longevity in a business.
21:00
To pay for the shares, we had to put down a $40,000 loan or something.
21:05
But what I didn't realize was that could be paid...
21:09
from the value of the shares down the track or something like that.
21:12
So technically, I guess in black and white, you weren't really paying for them.
21:15
You weren't signing up for anything.
21:16
But I saw this document as $40,000.
21:21
I don't have that.
21:22
I'm out of uni.
21:23
I'm straight out of uni.
21:24
I'm still paying off my South America trip.
21:26
Yeah, you don't add to the debt.
21:28
I can't afford $40,000 right now.
21:30
So I declined the offer.
21:32
Did you speak to your parents before you declined it?
21:36
No.
21:36
Because your mum would have been like, Victoria!
21:38
And there was no claw to that point.
21:40
I could chuck it in claw to be like, what does this mean?
21:42
You just saw 40 grand and thought, fuck no.
21:44
I was like, I don't have that amount of money right now.
21:48
And so I declined it.
21:49
And my boss came over and sat me down.
21:52
And he was like, Vic, do you understand this employee share scheme?
21:57
And I was like...
21:58
yeah duh he's like dude i was like um well like just maybe this little bit like what does this mean anyway is this the boss that got you to read the book yeah yeah he sounds like an absolute yeah agreed he sounds like a legend and he went through like line by line and explained all he's like so you don't have to pay anything for two years or something he was like and even in two years time you can say you don't want to take up
22:24
the loan or, you know, there was some kind of caveat of like, all you have to do is like decide you want to be on the register now and then you don't pay anything for two years.
22:34
And then I'm pretty sure if the share price was at a certain level, then you can convert it to shares or...
22:41
If it had fallen below that, then you don't have to take the loan.
22:43
So there was like – it was the most de-risked investment probably ever.
22:49
Yet I was like, sorry, I just don't have $40,000.
22:51
And he was like, no, but you don't need $40,000.
22:54
So thank goodness he made sure I understood because that $40,000 turned into nearly $400,000.
23:04
Oh, my word.
23:06
And I count my blessings every day that someone –
23:09
took the time to explain that to me because that's just changed my life incredibly.
23:14
And I think that's kind of why I find the curve so important.
23:17
It's just like there is so many times in our lives that if we make tiny decisions can actually change the financial trajectory of our lives.
23:26
And, you know, whether it's, you know, getting insurance or not getting insurance or whether it's taking this job versus that, you know, there's so many things that, you know,
23:36
if someone doesn't explain the risk or doesn't explain the opportunity, can have quite an impact.
23:42
And so I think that for me, I was like, oh my God, thank you so much.
23:44
That's amazing.
23:45
At what point did it turn into that number?
23:48
Was it after you left?
23:49
Yeah.
23:50
So I left and joined another company and I had to sell, they were competitors, so you can't have shares.
23:55
So I had to sell those.
23:57
And that had been over about six years.
23:59
So it was, yeah.
24:01
And the business had grown massively.
24:03
And I mean, if I'd kept that in there,
24:05
I'm sure they'll probably be multiple times higher than that now.
24:09
Yeah, it's okay because it's all now on the curve investments.
24:12
Yes, exactly.
24:13
But it's a good reminder as well of how much equity, when you get salary increases kind of year and year or you jump to new jobs and you get a bit of a jump, the wealth you can create from investing, and yes, this is in a private company, but the wealth you can create from investing in property or public companies, private companies, is just...
24:30
it really does accelerate your wealth and it's making money while you sleep.
24:35
It genuinely is.
24:35
For sure.
24:37
But annoyingly often in order to get into it, either you need a bit of money to begin with or the rest to take.
24:43
A hundred percent.
24:44
And look that I didn't have that 40,000.
24:46
Yeah.
24:46
I'm just so thankful that they gave that opportunity as, as a, you know, in the structure they did, but yeah, you're right.
24:52
If I had to put down 40,000, I wouldn't have been in the situation I max.
24:55
I didn't have that.
24:56
So it's like, yeah, money breeds money.
24:57
Yeah.
24:58
Yeah.
25:00
There's a story about finding everyone in the company's salary on the photocopier.
25:05
Yeah.
25:05
What was going through your mind?
25:07
This wasn't.
25:07
That was quite funny.
25:08
Yeah.
25:08
This wasn't at this job.
25:10
Oh.
25:10
It's a different job, which I won't name, but yeah.
25:13
And also, how does that even happen, honestly?
25:15
I know.
25:16
There was a structure that bonuses were a percentage of your salary.
25:20
So when there was salary reviews, it was always like a shit fight because people would be like, well, I want a higher salary because I know that means a higher bonus at the time.
25:26
in terms of a percentage of the bonus pool.
25:28
And so, so yes, I, one day, the, the bone, it was bonus season and it's so funny when it's bonus because everyone's like a bit like on edge or someone will like start getting taken out in like a one-on-one chat.
25:39
Yeah.
25:40
And yeah, I saw what people's bonuses were.
25:44
Oh,
25:45
So you could then be like, well, if that's their bonus, then this is what their salary is.
25:49
And so I kind of reverse engineered what their salaries were.
25:56
And I was like, even if there's a buffer of like, you know, a portion, it still doesn't add up.
26:02
Like, why am I getting paid so much less?
26:04
Therefore, why is my bonus so much less?
26:06
And I started to justify it.
26:07
I was like, oh, well, Vic, you haven't been here as long as this guy or you're not as old as this guy.
26:12
I tried to rationalize everything.
26:14
And I was like, Vic, what the fuck?
26:14
What the F are you doing?
26:15
Yeah.
26:16
And so I went to them and I was like, hey.
26:18
I had it up my back's pocket.
26:19
I didn't actually say I've seen it.
26:21
You know, like, I was just like, hey, I've done XYZ for this business.
26:24
And I would really like to have a salary review.
26:28
And I'd like this amount.
26:29
I said that to them.
26:31
And they were like, no, sorry.
26:32
And I was like, cool.
26:35
And they said, come back in six months time.
26:36
So I came back in six months time, had the same conversation and they were like, no, sorry.
26:40
Actually, I think it was like $1,000 or something.
26:43
Which is like $20 a week.
26:44
I was like, that's not even an inflation amount.
26:46
Like I was kind of, it was almost, just don't give me anything.
26:49
That's an F you.
26:50
You know, like I was like, just keep it.
26:53
I don't know.
26:53
I've rarely taken that on in terms of like, you know, being an employer now.
26:57
I'm like, gosh, it is so much easier to pay people what they want than have to re- Like, I just- Definitely hire.
27:05
My salary over that period of time in the finance industry went from like $45,000 to-
27:11
Bonuses include probably over $400,000.
27:13
New Zealand boys?
27:14
Yeah, New Zealand boys.
27:15
Wow.
27:16
So that is a great segue into my next question.
27:19
Then we join the curve and it goes, you win a fan.
27:22
Right back down.
27:23
But let's talk a bit about now when you did shift to having that glossy salary.
27:29
Was this when you moved to Sydney?
27:31
Yeah.
27:31
Yes.
27:32
Yes.
27:32
Okay, so.
27:33
God, that was fun.
27:34
What was that period like?
27:35
How did you sort of, I guess, find the transition?
27:38
And did you get caught up in the lifestyle?
27:40
Just walk us through the whole period of time until you, I guess, probably realize, right, actually, it's time to lock in.
27:47
Yeah, look, I look at my life and I think my 20s was...
27:53
One of the best times.
27:54
Yeah.
27:54
You know, like, I was earning a good salary.
27:57
Don't get me wrong, I did.
27:58
Yeah, definitely tried to invest a lot.
28:00
One of the early years in my career, we got some incredible bonuses.
28:04
And I had this older guy sit me down and he was like, Vic, whatever you do, do not get used to living off your bonus money.
28:12
because it is a bonus and it's a bonus for a reason.
28:14
I've been around a long time in finance.
28:16
There's heydays and there's like really shit times as well.
28:19
So he was just, and it was really good advice because I think when you're so young and naive, you can really start drinking the Kool-Aid and be like, no, my God.
28:27
And then, yeah.
28:28
And then when markets are cyclical, right, they move in cycles, there's great times, there's bad times.
28:34
And so, yeah, he was just like,
28:36
make sure you can live off your salary, not your buy-in.
28:39
And I was like, okay, that's really good.
28:40
So I definitely tried to invest a lot.
28:43
But Sydney, yeah, the time I met, that was so fun.
28:45
It's a great city and I just said yes to everything.
28:50
I just remember friends would be like, should we go to Bali?
28:52
And I'd be like, yeah.
28:54
i mean why not why not and it was my my my oe right what does oe stand for sorry overseas experience so it's like when you the big oe yeah usually like work a few years get that experience and then you go your overseas experience and you come back you know like a lot of people do do it to london uh and i did it to sydney and i remember like arriving with my arrival card and it was like permanently immigrating and i was like
29:17
yeah and they were like next i was like yeah probably like one of like millions of kiwis that moved to australia but i just i wish i'd invested more because i didn't have a lot of outgoings i didn't have a mortgage until later like i just i could have easily and people say yeah your 20s are for building your earning capacity your 30s are for growing your wealth
29:40
and like building your wealth.
29:41
And then your 40s are usually like family and it's a bit harder.
29:44
And so that's kind of when you spend it a bit more or you don't grow it as much.
29:48
And I, yeah, if I think about that, it's exactly kind of how I've done it.
29:51
It's like my 20s was super fun and could have definitely invested some more.
29:56
30s is growing your wealth and then, yeah.
29:58
So somewhere along the way, the car van started.
30:01
Yeah.
30:02
How long were you brewing on that for?
30:05
When did the idea of starting that up come about?
30:07
Yeah, we were driving back from somewhere, I don't know, in New Zealand, and Soph was in the back seat and my ex-boyfriend was in the front seat.
30:15
And they're like, Frank, you've got to do it.
30:16
You've got to start the cab.
30:18
And I was like, yeah, honestly...
30:20
The number of my friends that said I needed to start the curve was like getting so annoying.
30:24
As in at that point, you'd actually already been speaking about you had a name for it.
30:27
We didn't have a name for it at that point.
30:28
But it was like, they were just like, you need to start some kind of financial education thing.
30:32
Like everyone wanted to learn.
30:34
And it honestly got to the point that I did it because I wanted to shut up my friends.
30:37
Like honestly.
30:39
I was so, and I think I was scared, right?
30:41
You're like, I don't want to start something in case it fails or like, and honestly, I couldn't have been more wrong when I started at the like reception that we had, the support, the response, everything was so incredible and overwhelming that it's kind of, again, a good reminder of like, why was I so scared?
30:58
You know, even if I did start it and then it failed, like, what have I lost?
31:01
Like, cool.
31:02
I've started something that I always wanted to do.
31:03
Yeah, I don't know.
31:03
Yeah, it was.
31:04
Yeah.
31:05
So I'm so glad that we did and that I had pressure from my friends to do it and the support that those friends ended up giving me.
31:13
And then Soph also coming on board was just like doing a business with someone.
31:18
so much less scary.
31:20
Yeah.
31:20
You know, it's like you're in it together, you're a team and I've spoken to friends that have started businesses on their own and they're like, they wish they'd had a co-founder and it can be also really difficult times but it's,
31:33
I don't know, it's less scary doing it with someone else.
31:36
Yeah, it makes it all feel maybe a bit more real because you're bouncing off ideas with somebody.
31:40
Yeah, should we do this?
31:40
Should we not?
31:41
Should we accept this?
31:42
Should we not?
31:43
Yeah.
31:43
And the Curve name actually came from a friend of mine.
31:49
And now, like, seeing the success of the business, he's like, excuse me.
31:54
where are my royalties where are my royalties we were doing up with like trying to find an acronym i remember of like women in finance or like women investing or like you know and i'm really glad that we didn't go with a girls or women or like you know and and because it means that we can be a bit agnostic and kind of broaden our reach and and grow and expand into other places and i don't know the curve just i love the curve
32:19
It's such a good thing.
32:20
At that point, what did you think the curve was going to be?
32:23
Because I remember Sove saying in the early days it was all about events.
32:26
And now, obviously, you've got the podcast.
32:29
Now I've got the curve investments.
32:30
We didn't really have a plan, to be honest.
32:32
It was kind of like, just take it each day as it comes.
32:34
And then we'd get someone asking us if we wanted to do an event.
32:35
We're like, yep, cool.
32:37
And then we had our first podcast sponsorship.
32:38
We're like, cool.
32:40
And I think that's really important with business as well.
32:42
It's like, yes, you can have a plan, but also –
32:47
I just never would have thought the curve would be where it is today.
32:49
And so you kind of take the opportunities as they come, but also realize like pivoting and stuff.
32:55
We were doing events and we were doing so many events and then COVID hit and it's like, cool.
32:59
Okay.
33:00
Well, we can't do events anymore.
33:01
So let's do the podcast.
33:02
And so the advice that I give to friends who want to start businesses, I'm like, yeah,
33:06
cool, start it, but also don't be afraid that it might not end up what you think.
33:10
It might end up something way, way better.
33:13
And so, yeah, I think it's just like don't be afraid to kind of pivot and go after the opportunities as they come.
33:18
Obviously, you shifted from doing this part-time to moving to be full-time.
33:25
At what point did you think, okay, it's time to go to investors, raise capital, raise capital?
33:30
Rather than bootstrapping it, and for anyone that doesn't know the difference, what is that?
33:36
Can you please explain the difference?
33:37
Because it's definitely not a bootstrap on your shoe.
33:40
Yes, no, it is not.
33:42
And I don't know why it's called bootstrapping.
33:43
I don't know, like, come on, let's just make it a little bit more obvious.
33:47
So bootstrapping is when you kind of self-fund.
33:50
So for a period of the business, usually in the early years, it's not generating profit.
33:54
So you have to, like...
33:56
pay people's salaries or pay for marketing or pay for IT equipment.
34:00
You have to pay for that for something.
34:01
And so some people raise money and they go to external investors.
34:04
Other people bootstrap, which comes from their own pocket, essentially.
34:08
We did do that initially.
34:10
And I funded the first website, things like that.
34:16
And then we got to a point where we were like, right.
34:18
And yes, you're right.
34:19
I had left full-time employment.
34:21
I was full-time at the curve.
34:23
We had...
34:24
Moved the business to the UK and we could see the opportunity here.
34:27
And we were like, right, we really need to get a whole lot of money so that we can grow.
34:33
Yeah, look, it was a lot bigger of an undertaking than I thought.
34:38
I'd come from a world where...
34:40
I was sitting on the other side.
34:41
Businesses would come to us being like, hey, do you want to invest in us?
34:44
And I'd be like, well, what's your growth strategy?
34:48
And you're kind of pulling apart their growth plans and you're trying to figure out how at risk your money is going to be investing in them.
34:56
And you're seeing all these companies all the time.
34:57
So I was like, this is a piece of cake.
34:59
I've been on the other side.
35:00
I know what I'm doing.
35:02
Wow, what a learning experience.
35:04
I did not know what I was doing.
35:06
And it's your baby and everything.
35:08
It's just so different.
35:10
Anyway, so yeah, we decided we needed money.
35:13
We meant to pitch to investors, bought investors on.
35:16
Anyone going down that route, I would just say, make sure that you give yourself more time than you need.
35:23
It is like a full-time job.
35:24
You raise more than you need.
35:27
And...
35:28
you realize you're going to kind of sell your soul for a little bit.
35:30
Yeah.
35:31
Is that because of just constant pitching?
35:33
Yeah.
35:34
You get a lot of no's, I'm guessing.
35:35
Yeah.
35:36
And you get like a lot of people that don't give you no's.
35:39
They just don't get back to you.
35:41
And you've got to show up like this is the first time you've ever pitched and this is the investor that you want.
35:48
And this, you know, like the energy every time.
35:50
And we had like three or four in one night.
35:53
Is it a bit like doing Dragon's Den buck to buck to buck to buck?
35:56
Exactly.
35:56
Yeah.
35:57
Yeah, or a podcast.
35:58
Back to back to back to back to back.
35:59
Oh, God.
35:59
Ha!
36:00
Hi!
36:01
Yeah!
36:01
Always on, so enthusiastic.
36:02
Yeah.
36:03
Some are really like, look, we love what you're doing, but just not for me.
36:06
Or I don't have the money right now.
36:07
Or I'm going to be spending something else.
36:10
And others didn't even get it.
36:11
They were like, what?
36:13
Huh?
36:13
How do you make money?
36:14
Yeah, so I remember one time we were like halfway through our pitch deck and this lady's like,
36:18
Are you a charity?
36:20
You're all like, what do you mean?
36:21
She's like, where are the financials?
36:22
And we were like, whoa, whoa.
36:24
Like we were just, anyway.
36:26
And people only have like 20 minutes and you've got to really get in there.
36:29
And there's an art to it, definitely.
36:32
But then we had to raise money for the curve of investments.
36:35
And that was a lot easier because of the learning experience.
36:37
Yeah, anyway.
36:38
So I don't know.
36:39
I think I've had two very different experiences with that.
36:43
But both, yeah.
36:46
It's a huge undertaking regardless.
36:48
And I just think you need to be prepared.
36:50
Getting new capital and new money in the door can be great, but it does suck your soul a little bit.
36:56
But it can accelerate your growth.
36:58
I remember I was like, I don't want to, I don't want to.
37:00
And then someone said to me, like, Vic, I was like, I don't want to give away, I don't know, what was it, 10%?
37:05
Because I was like, because then I own less.
37:06
And they were like, yeah, but you own less of a bigger pie.
37:09
And I was like.
37:10
True.
37:11
I remember leaving my house.
37:13
finance job and my mum's like to join the curve full time and she was like what are you even thinking why like why are you leaving such a you know steady incredible it's golden facts all over again yeah and i know yeah and i'm like just you i'll show you mum i'll show you
37:29
So, just to reiterate, obviously, in Sophie's episode, we did kind of a whole run through of the Curve as a business.
37:37
From the podcast in the early days to the investing club and where it's at now.
37:43
But before we get on to the latest development, which is the Curve Investments, we wanted to quickly read out some of the questions that came in from the community.
37:50
So, first one, God, this is a bit harrowing.
37:53
What was the lowest point in your life, money-wise?
37:56
Jeez, it is really off to a good start.
37:59
coming back from South America?
38:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:01
Coming back from South America.
38:02
Like, yeah.
38:04
No, look, I think the lowest point in my life money-wise was before we did the capital raise for the curve, we'd moved the business to the UK.
38:14
And I just, I remember feeling immense pressure of this has to work and almost desperation of, I can't go home.
38:25
I can't let this business fail.
38:27
but I also paying my own salary relies on this capital rate.
38:31
Like everything felt all encompassing.
38:33
We had you at the time, Emily, you know, there was so many, there was people's lives that depended, you know, there was just so much pressure.
38:40
And I think, yes, well, it's like kind of, it was definitely money related.
38:45
I think that for me, it was just like my family was worried because it was just like all encompassing.
38:50
I was like, this has to be a success.
38:51
And I remember working there.
38:53
mornings nights weekends like why was I even in London because I didn't even see London no and I think I'd left my job and so like I had to prove to my mom that I'd made the right decision I had to prove to my old boss I had to prove to like the staff that that they were going to get paid next month I had to prove like even my own salary the way I was going to survive in London was reliant on this business and I was like oh my gosh but if we don't raise money then we don't like it was just I remember being like oh my gosh there seems no way out and there there always is
39:22
And I think probably when you compare it to, you know, when you were on your 400K salary and you were living in Sydney, like, I think because you had that to compare probably made it feel a lot worse.
39:32
And I think when you're the master of your own business, you do feel a different level of responsibility.
39:38
Yes.
39:39
You know, it was...
39:41
Yes, I can cut my salary, but you can't just cut other staff.
39:45
I think looking back on that, surviving that, I was like, but you can do anything.
39:49
Hell yeah.
39:50
Second question, what do you think the gaps are that stop young women from even considering a career in finance and investing?
39:57
I think it just is you don't see the representation.
40:01
You know, if you look at how few kind of female prime ministers there are or female pilots, when you don't see the representation, you don't think that's a road for you to go down.
40:11
And I remember going back to my old school and they were having a careers day.
40:15
They had the person from the law.
40:16
They had the person from, you know, medicine.
40:18
They had a person, me, from finance.
40:20
And the lady was like, don't be disheartened if nobody comes.
40:23
And I was like, what do you mean?
40:24
Like...
40:25
Careers in finance is so epic.
40:28
Anyway, and there was about two girls there, and I was, like, really disheartened.
40:32
And I was like, but it's not that they don't want to come see me speak.
40:37
It's because they don't know what a career in finance entails.
40:41
And I think that was the bigger issue.
40:42
I was like, everyone was going to law.
40:44
Yeah.
40:45
And I think like marketing was another, but they don't know, you don't know what you don't know.
40:50
And so I had the most incredible career.
40:54
I cannot, like I would do it in a heartbeat again.
40:56
Hence why we've launched the good investments.
40:59
You know, I got to travel.
41:00
I got a good salary.
41:01
I worked with epic teams.
41:03
I got to visit, sit in front of CEOs of incredible businesses that I would never have got to do at that age.
41:08
Like it was so dynamic.
41:11
I got to look at companies that interest me.
41:15
So I made the most incredible friends throughout that, the most incredible network.
41:19
I wish more women did want to do it.
41:22
But, you know, there is a boys club mentality still.
41:25
I'm not showing away from that.
41:26
But that's why with the Curve Investments, we want to change that as well.
41:28
We want to make it more female friendly, 100%.
41:32
So third question, what is the best investment you ever made?
41:35
I think...
41:36
The best investment, I think, is in your health.
41:39
I know that sounds cliche and everyone's probably wanted to hear like Microsoft or something.
41:44
But honestly, I've never regretted spending money on exercise, healthy eating, skincare, like things that make me feel great.
41:53
And whenever I get into a patch of stress or work, it's those things that bring me back out into a control, kind of balanced life again and keep my brain...
42:05
savvy and normal and yeah so i think investing in your health and health insurance all of that i think is just yeah so yeah and if you don't invest in your health you can't enjoy your other investments amen one of the things that you have been very transparent about in the past is burnout and balancing saying yes and no um i remember an episode that we did a couple of years now where it really kind of came to a head for you um where are you at with that now yeah good question
42:34
I hate the word burnout.
42:35
I don't know.
42:36
I just feel like it is so thrown around too much.
42:40
It is a buzzword.
42:41
Yeah.
42:42
And so like I think I have realized this is a long game for me.
42:49
And if it's a long game –
42:52
then you need to put the support system in place, whether that's in business, in life, and, you know, like in all facets of your life.
43:00
Like this, I am a co-founder.
43:01
This is going to be an all-consuming business, but I have to be really careful with the balance in terms of, yes, there's going to be really stressful weeks and that's okay, but that needs to be counteracted with less stressful weeks.
43:14
One of our advisors gave me the best advice and I honestly wish I'd heard it like years ago.
43:19
And she was like, oh,
43:21
what are you going to put down to pick that up?
43:23
And it was like, okay, with anything, right?
43:26
If it's cool, I'm pregnant, I'm going to have a child.
43:31
Okay, what am I going to put down to pick that up?
43:33
Because that's a big thing to pick up.
43:34
Or if it's like, okay, we're going to launch investments, what am I going to put down to pick that up?
43:38
Or even podcasts, you know, if we produce another podcast a week, it's like, okay, what are we going to put?
43:43
down to pick it up.
43:43
And it's just like, it's a really beautiful way of thinking like you can't just keep adding things to your plate.
43:48
And a few years ago I was, I was just adding, adding, adding, adding, adding.
43:52
And that's when your plate's going to break.
43:54
I'm pretty strict now because if you do keep saying yes to things, it's not.
43:58
You're not going to be the best version of yourself and all of that.
44:00
So it is finding that right balance.
44:03
I think also it warrants a lot of respect as well for people that are under you.
44:07
Like knowing that you are so time stretched and that you don't have capacity to do all of these different things.
44:12
We are then really careful about what we deem as important for you to be involved with.
44:18
And also it then makes us know that we are allowed to say no to things as well.
44:22
True.
44:23
Yeah.
44:23
Whereas if you're constantly saying yes to things, I would then feel like, oh, well, I should be doing that too.
44:29
And someone also said to me, they're like, how great is it that you are stressed sometimes, you know, that your business is doing so well that you are feeling like think of it as a good thing in a sense of like, OK, you need more resources then because you can't be in a stress state forever.
44:41
But you're obviously like doing so well that that's why it's stressed.
44:45
You know, there's kind of.
44:46
Yeah, it's like.
44:47
Yeah.
44:47
All about perspective.
44:48
Yeah.
44:49
And it's I think.
44:51
I think hiring people in areas – I'm reading this book at the moment.
44:54
It is so, so great.
44:56
It's called Buy Back Your Time.
44:58
Okay.
44:58
And it is – honestly, it's like what life do you want to create and where do you want to be and how you get there and stuff.
45:05
And it's all about like valuing your time and –
45:09
like hiring people and getting people to do things and taking things off your plate and like really focusing on things you enjoy and therefore you don't have to worry about burnout and stuff because you what you're doing you actually really fucking love doing yeah we love a bit of calendar blocking around yes the curve that's the one thing they say in that they're like calendar block and then you know where you're spending your time it has changed my life yeah
45:29
We were going to end this podcast by asking you to give your advice to your younger self.
45:35
Yes.
45:35
But you actually have had quite an amazing life, sort of career trajectory.
45:40
And, you know, obviously there were stressful things along the way, but all in all, you've done incredibly well.
45:46
Thank you.
45:47
So instead, we want to ask...
45:49
What piece of advice you'd give to someone on the cusp of making a big life decision right now, or even just the decision to start investing?
45:56
I love that you think that I've had this incredible career.
45:58
Because even when you're sitting there saying that, I'm like, no, I haven't.
46:01
I'm just like, you're out there.
46:03
I would say have a plan.
46:06
I think, yes, and things don't always go to plan.
46:08
But for me personally, having a plan made things feel less like they were like big life decisions.
46:15
You know, like when I left...
46:17
my corporate world to start the curve.
46:20
I had a financial, like I had an amount of money that I was like, look, okay, I've got this that I can rely on.
46:27
Should it not be a success or I can go back to my job?
46:29
Or like, you know, there was like a kind of a backup plan essentially that if things don't go well.
46:34
I think also there is nothing more motivating than running your own business.
46:39
Because you, at the end of the day, are the one that kind of, I guess, determines the success or the failure of it.
46:47
So don't underestimate, you know, when your business is paying your own salary, like how effing motivating that is.
46:55
Like I have worked so much harder than I probably ever worked in my corporate life.
47:01
Because I'm kind of like the master of my own destiny in the sense of it's only up to you in terms of what you can and can't achieve, if that makes sense.
47:09
So we always tend, like a lot of us, not everyone, but mostly females, will kind of think of the worst case scenario.
47:17
And I tried to think of the worst case scenario and how would I get out of that.
47:23
And then it doesn't feel as bad.
47:24
If this all goes tits up, what's the worst, you know, like, how would we get out of it?
47:29
Oh, okay, cool.
47:29
That's how we do it.
47:30
Okay, sweet.
47:30
Well, then let's just go for it.
47:32
Because the worst case scenario isn't even that bad.
47:35
Yeah.
47:36
But like, if you have a side hustle, or if you're thinking about starting a business, the worst possible scenario is that it doesn't go well.
47:42
And then you just go back to the thing that you're doing at the moment.
47:44
Yeah, and no one's like, oh my God, remember when Emily started that business?
47:47
Yeah.
47:47
Nobody remembers that.
47:48
It's like... No one cares.
47:49
Yeah, and it's like nobody cares about as much as you do, to be honest.
47:52
Yeah, yeah.
47:53
In the nicest way.
47:54
Like, it's... Yeah.
47:55
And so I think, yeah, what have you lost?
47:57
You've maybe lost a bit of money or a bit of time setting it up, but like...
48:02
What if you never scratch that itch?
48:03
You'll never know.
48:03
It could be an incredible success as well.
48:05
Yeah.
48:06
And also, no decision is a one-way door.
48:08
Exactly.
48:08
That is another quote.
48:10
Gosh, I feel like I'm a walking quote board.
48:13
Also, what about for people who are thinking about making an investment for the very first time?
48:17
Be that in the curve investments or otherwise.
48:20
$500, tick Victoria Harris.
48:21
Yeah, the curve fund has one of the lowest minimums in the industry, in New Zealand, which is great.
48:28
And so, yes, if you are scared, listen to the podcast, learn, and then... Give me your money.
48:33
We can't give you advice, but we have a great place for you to invest.
48:38
Just on that, genuinely, if you are starting to invest, just start small, honestly, because then if it doesn't go well, you haven't lost a lot of money, but I know it will go well.
48:48
Hell freaking, yeah.
48:50
Thank you so much, Vic.
48:51
Thank you, Vic.
48:51
This has been so lovely.
48:52
We have absolutely loved doing this episode with you.
48:54
Thanks for having me.
48:55
It's so nice to talk about myself.
48:58
pleasure.
48:59
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Curve.
49:01
Feel free to leave a comment to let us know what you thought.
49:03
We always love hearing your feedback.
49:05
New episodes are out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, so make sure you're subscribed to be notified whenever a new episode drops.
49:11
In the meantime, we're around on socials so you can find all the links in the show notes.
49:14
Hope you have a great week, and we will see you for the next episode.
49:18
Okay, quickly, the Curve was created to empower and educate you about investing, but we are not financial advisors.
49:24
Our platform exists for educational purposes only, and it doesn't provide personalized investing advice for your individual needs and should not be relied upon to make an investment or financial decision.
49:33
And always remember to do your own research before making any investment or financial decision.
49:38
We're here for any knowledge and support you need, but the final call is always yours.
49:42
And thanks for being here.
49:44
You got this.
49:44
Yeah, we know you got this.