Latest / NO FILTER / Mom allegedly kidnaps daughter with special needs to teach her a lesson about online predators(MP3_160K)

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Mom allegedly kidnaps daughter with special needs to teach her a lesson about online predators(MP3_160K) · NO FILTER

0:00
Speaker 1: A word of warning. This podcast explores graphic and disturbing
0:03
Speaker 1: stories and includes some strong language. It therefore may not
0:07
Speaker 1: be suitable for our young listeners or other folks who
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Speaker 1: may find it disturbing. Hello and welcome to True Crime News,
0:14
Speaker 1: the podcast covering high profile and under the radar cases
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Speaker 1: from across the country. Every week. I'm your host, Anna Garcia.
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Speaker 1: Our case this week, it is a miracle no one
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Speaker 1: was killed in a crazy stunt meant to teach a
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Speaker 1: young special needs woman a lesson about the dangers online.
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Speaker 1: According to police, authorities say, the mother allegedly had the
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Speaker 1: girl kidnapped to convince her that this would happen if
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Speaker 1: she didn't stop communicating with a scammer online who was
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Speaker 1: pretending to be her favorite country music singer. The mother
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Speaker 1: was terrified that the daughter would run off with this
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Speaker 1: potential predator, and with her disabilities, she could be seriously hurt. Well,
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Speaker 1: the pretend kidnapping backfired and two year year old woman
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Speaker 1: was injured and traumatized by this hoax. The father says
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Speaker 1: the mother meant, well, she didn't know how else to
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Speaker 1: communicate this danger. Well, now the vulnerable young woman has
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Speaker 1: been taken away from her parents, another traumatizing event. It's
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Speaker 1: a complicated case and we can't wait to hear your
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Speaker 1: thoughts on this one. We are recording this on Friday,
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Speaker 1: December twelfth of twenty twenty five. Our guest today is
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Speaker 1: Louis Bolanos, a former homicide investigator, a victim advocate and
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Speaker 1: founder of get Bit Investigations, and a dear friend of
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Speaker 1: the show and someone very dear to my family. Louis,
1:33
Speaker 1: welcome back.
1:34
Speaker 2: How are you, hi, Anna, I'm doing well. Thank you.
1:36
Speaker 2: Happy holidays.
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Speaker 1: Happy holidays to you. So, Louis, when Will and I
1:41
Speaker 1: were looking at cases to discuss, we flagg this one
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Speaker 1: immediately because I know because of our friendship that you
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Speaker 1: actually have worked on very similar cases. And in one case,
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Speaker 1: the young woman was a special needs person and the
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Speaker 1: family was beside themselves trying to protect her from this
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Speaker 1: online predator.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so very true, very true. I want to say,
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Speaker 2: in the last five years or so, I've handled about
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Speaker 2: five or six of these, and interesting enough, two of
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Speaker 2: the individuals that the catfisher was trying to portray was
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Speaker 2: Luke Bryant. So for some reason, he's a very popular
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Speaker 2: individual out there that people like to mimic and use
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Speaker 2: as bait.
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Speaker 1: Wow. So we're going to talk about your experience with
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Speaker 1: these cases, and you know, this is a tragedy. This
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Speaker 1: really is a tragedy because it's controversial, but I think
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Speaker 1: everyone agrees that the intentions were well meaning, the plan
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Speaker 1: was horrible, dangerous, not well thought out, but that the intentions,
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Speaker 1: right were came from a place of love, even though
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Speaker 1: it was the dumbest thing ever and so dangerous.
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Speaker 2: Right right. And that's why people are and really pondered
3:01
Speaker 2: this one. And there's a lot of outside things here
3:07
Speaker 2: that really factor into your decision making if you think
3:09
Speaker 2: you need to come to a final decision on what's
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Speaker 2: right what's wrong in this So many variables, so many
3:15
Speaker 2: so than which we're going to get into.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, we are the cases out of Rudy and Van Buren, Arkansas.
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Speaker 1: And it's really about the question here is about consequences.
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Speaker 1: You have a mother who is desperate to convince her
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Speaker 1: special needs daughter that there was a predator online and
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Speaker 1: who was pretending to be singer Luke Bryan that he
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Speaker 1: was not Prince Charming, but she was trying to convince
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Speaker 1: her this man was dangerous and the mother in trying
3:44
Speaker 1: to teach a lesson about consequences, is now herself facing
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Speaker 1: very serious consequences. The police have charged her with kidnapping,
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Speaker 1: and this incident happened in November. November seventeenth of this year,
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Speaker 1: police have arrested Tamra Hanby, who is fifty nine years old.
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Speaker 1: She is charged with conspiracy to kidnapping, first degree false imprisonment,
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Speaker 1: abuse of an endangered or impaired person, third degree battery,
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Speaker 1: and second degree terroristic threatening. The target of this alleged
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Speaker 1: kidnapping scheme is her twenty two year old daughter, Jamie Hanby,
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Speaker 1: who has the mental comprehension of an eleven year old.
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Speaker 1: The woman's father, a respected physician in the area, says
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Speaker 1: he had no idea what the wife was plotting. And
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Speaker 1: then there are three accomplices. Alleged accomplices here, according to police,
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Speaker 1: the caretaker, Jamie's caretaker, and two men who are enlisted
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Speaker 1: to play the kidnappers in this whole scheme. All of
4:46
Speaker 1: them are in court this week. All of them say
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Speaker 1: that they are not guilty. They've entered their pleas. All
4:51
Speaker 1: of them are charged with the exact same thing. That's
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Speaker 1: a lot of charges, you know. The prosecutor is going
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Speaker 1: after them hard. And I'm not saying that they shouldn't.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know. They probably don't have a choice.
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Speaker 2: It's the penalty, the sentencing at the end of this,
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Speaker 2: if they're convicted or if there's some kind of plea
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Speaker 2: doing this, it's really going to resonate on what if
5:16
Speaker 2: the punishment fits the crime. I guess back to the father,
5:20
Speaker 2: I saw an end of the interview where he said
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Speaker 2: his first words out of his mouth were, I didn't
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Speaker 2: know anything about this, and I know, I wonder I'm
5:28
Speaker 2: going to go out of the limbs say I think
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Speaker 2: he did. But he's been very vocal. Not only is
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Speaker 2: he being vocal in it, but he is doubling and
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Speaker 2: tripling down on why they did it, the justification for
5:39
Speaker 2: doing this, for this fake kidnapping. And I think that's
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Speaker 2: going to hurt him. So he has to show some
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Speaker 2: type of I want to say, remorse, but admission that
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Speaker 2: they made a bad decision, a horrible decision. It could
5:53
Speaker 2: have hurt so many people.
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Speaker 1: It was, yes, absolutely a terrible way of parenting and
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Speaker 1: modeling behavior. I mean, without question, without question. But I
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Speaker 1: think also you know whether you're a parent or not.
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Speaker 1: Many people can understand when someone reads reaches a point
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Speaker 1: of desperation, and sadly, when someone is desperate, they can
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Speaker 1: make some of the worst decisions in their life, and
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Speaker 1: this one is one of them. And by the grace
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Speaker 1: of God, By the grace of God, nobody was killed
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Speaker 1: in this thing. Because when we describe to you how
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Speaker 1: they tied her to a tree, I mean, so many
6:38
Speaker 1: things could have happened here. She was zip tied, her
6:42
Speaker 1: hands were zip tide. Yeah, I just I don't even know.
6:49
Speaker 1: I mean, this is insane. We're going to get to
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Speaker 1: the details of it, but I just want to give
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Speaker 1: you the headline of they This is the alleged scheme
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Speaker 1: that the mother the care take her and then the
7:01
Speaker 1: two friends were allegedly in on. One of those two
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Speaker 1: men allegedly comes to the house says, hey, I work
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Speaker 1: for Luke Bryant. I'm here to take you to meet him.
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Speaker 1: Remember this is what the family was so afraid of.
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Speaker 1: Jamie gets in the car with them, and then they
7:20
Speaker 1: take her to the woods and then then they pretend
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Speaker 1: but do restrain her and zip tie her hands. They
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Speaker 1: tied to a tree. She freaking panics, as you can
7:35
Speaker 1: imagine she manages to run away to a house nearby
7:42
Speaker 1: and they call nine to one one, and that's how
7:44
Speaker 1: the police found out about this whole thing. And supposedly,
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Speaker 1: as part of this plot, the mother was waiting, hiding
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Speaker 1: and she was going to jump out at the right
7:55
Speaker 1: moment and then explain to her daughter, See, this is
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Speaker 1: what I've been trying to tell you. This is what
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Speaker 1: will happen if you do not stop talking to this
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Speaker 1: impersonator online.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I don't know. I think it's almost
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Speaker 2: impossible and definitely extremely dangerous to try to teach anybody
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Speaker 2: anything by causing intentional trauma. So yeah, I think she's
8:19
Speaker 2: going to be more traumatized than this catfishing event for
8:23
Speaker 2: the rest of her life. And that's a big factor.
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Speaker 1: And this young woman, she's twenty two, she is an adult,
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Speaker 1: but she does need help and supervision. She's been removed
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Speaker 1: from the family now understandable. Mom is charged with kidnapping.
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Speaker 1: Dad says he doesn't know anything about it, and the
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Speaker 1: government's decided, oh no, no, no, no, no, she needs
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Speaker 1: to be protected. We must remove her from the family.
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Speaker 1: Dad is going back and forth to court trying to
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Speaker 1: regain custody of Jamie the mother as part of her
8:56
Speaker 1: you know, she's been charged and it's part of her
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Speaker 1: condition of bail and everything else is she has no contact.
9:02
Speaker 1: She's not allowed to have any contact with Jamie. And
9:04
Speaker 1: what we don't know is what does Jamie think about.
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Speaker 2: All of this? Yeah, yeah, so will she want to
9:10
Speaker 2: go back to bomb and Dad? I mean, that's her choice.
9:13
Speaker 2: She is an adult still at the court, I don't
9:15
Speaker 2: know if they can get involved and enforce that either way.
9:20
Speaker 2: But just like you can't control, she'd be with whoever
9:23
Speaker 2: she wants to be. Just like she is an adult
9:26
Speaker 2: and she wanted to go meet this person. It's hard
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Speaker 2: to stop that unless there was a crime committed. So
9:34
Speaker 2: she's an adult here by all you know, all laws,
9:38
Speaker 2: she's an adult. I don't know if there's any law
9:41
Speaker 2: this in a place right now, and obviously there's not.
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Speaker 2: They would keep her from making adult, adult decisions, and
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Speaker 2: that includes talking to anybody she wants to online. In fact,
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Speaker 2: one of the comedy nominators I saw in the four
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Speaker 2: or five cases we've handled these type of catfishing. When
9:58
Speaker 2: it comes to contacting law enforcement, that's one of the
10:01
Speaker 2: first hurdles we try to overcome, and it's extremely difficult
10:05
Speaker 2: because the police will tell you that they are not
10:10
Speaker 2: the love police. They can't get involved if this person,
10:15
Speaker 2: although honustar or an adult wants having a relationship, whether
10:19
Speaker 2: it's online or in person with the individual that they're
10:23
Speaker 2: talking to online. So it's very difficult to get past
10:27
Speaker 2: that hurdle. There has to be some type of crime
10:30
Speaker 2: and I think that's what they ran into here with
10:32
Speaker 2: law enforcement. Yeah, because they did go to the police.
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Speaker 1: They did. The parents went to the police said please
10:38
Speaker 1: help us, something terrible is going to happen, and they
10:41
Speaker 1: got involved to a certain degree. They were able to
10:43
Speaker 1: track the scammer and his phone number to Nigeria, but
10:48
Speaker 1: that's as far as they got. That's as far as
10:50
Speaker 1: police got. And the prosecutor later said something about, you know,
10:54
Speaker 1: there can be a lot of suspicion and there can
10:56
Speaker 1: be a lot of concern, but if a crime has
10:59
Speaker 1: a necessarily been committed, what are the police supposed to do?
11:05
Speaker 1: But that brings us back to the original problem that
11:09
Speaker 1: so many parents face when they are frightened, they have
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Speaker 1: flagged a situation is dangerous. They are trying to protect
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Speaker 1: their child or their loved one from one of these
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Speaker 1: scams and they have nowhere to turn no one, No
11:25
Speaker 1: one can help them now. The family also says that
11:30
Speaker 1: they removed it took away Jamie's devices, but they claim
11:34
Speaker 1: she always found a way to communicate.
11:37
Speaker 2: And I believe that Anna every single one of these,
11:40
Speaker 2: any kid, a kid will know how to continue their communication.
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Speaker 2: They'll find a device, their excess. They're everywhere, so I mean,
11:49
Speaker 2: that's the first thing they say, Well, just take away
11:51
Speaker 2: their device, is their phone, their computer? Well, of course
11:53
Speaker 2: you're going to do that, And it sounds like they
11:55
Speaker 2: did here, but James was smart enough to figure out
11:59
Speaker 2: where else you go to continue in communication. So it's
12:03
Speaker 2: a temporary fix at best.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's figure out how things got to
12:10
Speaker 1: this desperate point. The River Valley Democrat Gazette has done
12:14
Speaker 1: some extensive reporting on this case, and according to them,
12:18
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Hamby was a doctor and Tamera served on the
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Speaker 1: Crawford County Library Board, but she resigned after her arrest.
12:28
Speaker 1: Jamie has been raised by the Hambys, who were granted
12:31
Speaker 1: permanent guardianship of her. She is not their biological daughter,
12:35
Speaker 1: she's adopted. Jamie came into the Hamby's lives. When she
12:39
Speaker 1: was just six weeks old, she suffered a seizure, requiring hospitalization.
12:44
Speaker 1: Jeffrey was her er doctor and reportedly formed a bond
12:50
Speaker 1: with her, fell in love with her, and so he
12:53
Speaker 1: and his wife adopted her. And they adopted her knowing
12:58
Speaker 1: she had many physical challenges and development mental developmental issues
13:05
Speaker 1: as well. The child at that point was suffering from
13:08
Speaker 1: epilepsy and something called a reactive attachment disorder. So, according
13:14
Speaker 1: to court records, Tamra and Jeffrey were granted permanent guardianship
13:18
Speaker 1: of Jamie in October of twenty twenty one, and this
13:22
Speaker 1: arrangement was reached because of the medical issues. She has
13:27
Speaker 1: a lot of medical issues including this is according to
13:30
Speaker 1: court records, developmental delays, audio processing disorder, attention deficit disorder,
13:36
Speaker 1: seizure disorder, and separation disorder. Can you imagine Jamie trying
13:44
Speaker 1: to process the trauma of this fake kidnapping.
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Speaker 2: Right, She's just clearly unable to do that. I had
13:53
Speaker 2: to look up reactive attachment disorder, Anna, and if she's
13:57
Speaker 2: been diagnosed with that, that's a huge contributor to her
14:00
Speaker 2: decision making. So just real quick, it's a rare condition
14:04
Speaker 2: where young children fail to form healthy emotional bonds with
14:07
Speaker 2: caregivers due to severe neglect, abuse, or frequent caregiver changes,
14:12
Speaker 2: leading to withdrawn, fearful, irritable behavior, difficulty with affections, social withdrawal,
14:17
Speaker 2: and trouble regulating emotions, often seen as an inability to
14:22
Speaker 2: seek or accept comfort. And I'm wondering if that disorder
14:27
Speaker 2: rad RAD is what they call it is something she
14:29
Speaker 2: was diagnosed with after she was taken adopted by the parents,
14:34
Speaker 2: are taken into their home, or that's something that she
14:38
Speaker 2: was diagnosed with at six weeks. She was six weeks,
14:41
Speaker 2: so she came into the R room ring.
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Speaker 1: So I think it's been a very long process. And
14:46
Speaker 1: I think as she grew some of her challenges in
14:51
Speaker 1: communicating and her thought processes and her ability to emotionally
14:57
Speaker 1: connect with people. I think all of that developed and
15:01
Speaker 1: revealed itself in real time challenges. And you know, there's
15:05
Speaker 1: something that you said earlier, Lewis, and we're going to
15:08
Speaker 1: get back on track here, but I'm taking your little
15:10
Speaker 1: side trip about whether the courts have any say here
15:15
Speaker 1: because she's an adult. She is an adult. However, we
15:19
Speaker 1: have to remember that in this case, the parents have
15:24
Speaker 1: also permanent guardianship. Okay, and she's already an adult because
15:31
Speaker 1: this so, the hearings that we've had so far about
15:38
Speaker 1: what's happening to Jamie and what will happen to her
15:43
Speaker 1: have all been strictly confidential. The media the public not
15:49
Speaker 1: permitted in these hearings at all, because it's not it's
15:54
Speaker 1: kind of like akin to a conservatiship hearings their privacy
16:00
Speaker 1: issues because we're dealing with the competency of the individual
16:06
Speaker 1: to care for themselves.
16:08
Speaker 2: So hippolaws on top of it.
16:10
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering, Lewis, I know you say she's twenty two.
16:13
Speaker 1: She is, But if the court determines and look at
16:18
Speaker 1: the mental capabilities of an eleven year old, are can
16:23
Speaker 1: be I mean, they already know right from wrong. She
16:27
Speaker 1: understood fear, she understood protecting herself right. But I guess
16:31
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is if the court deems it that
16:35
Speaker 1: she can't fully live by herself, or perhaps can't completely
16:40
Speaker 1: make these decisions about her future and her safety, then
16:45
Speaker 1: the Court's going to have to make this decision even
16:47
Speaker 1: though she's an adult.
16:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's very possible, you know, but I think
16:54
Speaker 2: that's a really tough threshold for them to hit. They
16:58
Speaker 2: have to show I mean it just in cautful at
17:00
Speaker 2: fifty one fifty you have to show that of the
17:03
Speaker 2: Welfare Institutions Code, you have to show that the person
17:06
Speaker 2: is unable to care for themselves, a danger to themselves
17:09
Speaker 2: or a danger to others. She certainly is not the
17:12
Speaker 2: last two. I don't see anything where she's a danger
17:14
Speaker 2: to herself other than these decisions to make have these
17:18
Speaker 2: type of online contacts. But she can care for herself.
17:22
Speaker 2: It seems like I haven't seen anything in any of
17:24
Speaker 2: this where she's unable to feed herself, to dress herself,
17:28
Speaker 2: to go out to you know, she can employ herself
17:30
Speaker 2: if she wants to go out, and she wants to
17:33
Speaker 2: get married. I don't see how the cork could stop her.
17:35
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so it's look, this happens every day
17:38
Speaker 2: across the country, these type of decisions. Unfortunately, and so
17:41
Speaker 2: we're not reinventing the wheel here, but there's just so
17:44
Speaker 2: many outside factors here, and this kidnapping takes it to
17:48
Speaker 2: a whole different level.
17:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, this is just so tragic. It
17:53
Speaker 1: really is. Now the Handby's employed an in home caregiver
17:58
Speaker 1: named Shannon childers help with Jamie. Police say the caregiver
18:03
Speaker 1: was allegedly part of the kidnapping plot. Remember everyone here
18:08
Speaker 1: has entered a not guilty plea. Okay, and you know
18:14
Speaker 1: we know parts of the story we may not know
18:16
Speaker 1: at all. But I can't see what could be a
18:19
Speaker 1: mitigating factor to this level of violence. I really, because
18:22
Speaker 1: this is violent. This is a violent act, absolutely, So
18:28
Speaker 1: let's talk about Now, let's introduce the danger that was
18:32
Speaker 1: perceived by the parents. The initial danger online began about
18:35
Speaker 1: six months before the incident. Jamie was allegedly participating in
18:40
Speaker 1: an online chat room for children at the time. The
18:48
Speaker 1: idea that a predator was in this chat room with
18:52
Speaker 1: what was supposed to be for children freaks me out.
18:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well that's what they do that editors too.
19:01
Speaker 2: That's why they have shows like to Catch a Predator
19:03
Speaker 2: with mister Hanson, right, he goes after these clowns. So, yeah,
19:09
Speaker 2: it's scary. There's some type of education that has to
19:13
Speaker 2: be shared with the kids in general, but I think
19:17
Speaker 2: it takes a special way of presenting this to someone
19:19
Speaker 2: with the challenges that Jamie had, and the parents tried everything.
19:24
Speaker 2: They just could get her to comprehend. But taking the
19:29
Speaker 2: computer away, they did all that. We talked about that,
19:32
Speaker 2: they did all that, and she found other avenues to
19:34
Speaker 2: continue the conversation. So what do you do with these predators?
19:37
Speaker 2: I mean, is it against the law for an adult
19:39
Speaker 2: to go into a child chat room to fake it?
19:45
Speaker 2: Just that? No, it's not against the law. What's against
19:48
Speaker 2: the law is it's very suspicious. And just the fact
19:52
Speaker 2: that it was suspicious to me should have made law
19:55
Speaker 2: enforcement look, do it further? Have little more concern. So
19:58
Speaker 2: I read the respond from the prosecutor's office, Prosecutor Kevin Holmes.
20:04
Speaker 2: He says, just because their suspicious activity doesn't just allow
20:08
Speaker 2: us to go out and start rounding up people. Well,
20:11
Speaker 2: let's stop there. No one's asking to go out to
20:15
Speaker 2: round them up. There's suspicious activity. So I come across
20:19
Speaker 2: this hurdle all the time. Yes, it's suspicious. So we
20:23
Speaker 2: know in some of the cases we've had, and it
20:25
Speaker 2: sounds like they figured it out here, but we know
20:28
Speaker 2: where the person who's sending these messages is at. We
20:31
Speaker 2: were able to figure that out, and we had to
20:33
Speaker 2: go after hurdle after hurdle after hurdle to get to
20:37
Speaker 2: someone that actually cared and believed that suspicious activity was
20:41
Speaker 2: enough reason to at least knock on the door and
20:44
Speaker 2: say hello. Doesn't mean you're rounding them up. It means
20:47
Speaker 2: that you're putting them on notice. We know what you're doing,
20:51
Speaker 2: maybe you'll identify them. And many times those type of
20:53
Speaker 2: consensual contacts will lead to something bigger. So just poopling
21:01
Speaker 2: it and sending it away because it's only suspicious activity,
21:04
Speaker 2: we can't do anything about its complete bs. I think
21:08
Speaker 2: this prosecutor should be held account for that statement because
21:12
Speaker 2: eventually acted as the catalyst for making the parents' mom
21:16
Speaker 2: at least come up with this bizarre plan. Yeah. Sure.
21:23
Speaker 1: So in your case where you had special needs individual,
21:28
Speaker 1: a woman who thought she was going to marry this
21:32
Speaker 1: country singer, were you able to locate the alleged predator.
21:36
Speaker 2: Yes, we were, and what happened and we ended up
21:39
Speaker 2: knocking on the door of the individual.
21:41
Speaker 1: When you say you all not the police, because the
21:44
Speaker 1: police didn't do it.
21:45
Speaker 2: No, let me take step back. Law enforcement right after
21:49
Speaker 2: going through different levels and ended up knocking on the
21:53
Speaker 2: door and they were happy to do it. We laid
21:56
Speaker 2: out the circumstances that you know, we spoke to a
22:00
Speaker 2: investigator who was a parent himself and said, yeah, this
22:02
Speaker 2: all makes sense. Yeah, I'll go and knock on the door.
22:04
Speaker 2: It's right here. And this was a door where this individual,
22:07
Speaker 2: the victim here was sending money to. So it wasn't
22:10
Speaker 2: that hard to figure out. It took a couple of
22:12
Speaker 2: layers to get it through the to get the address,
22:16
Speaker 2: but we were able to figure it out. And when
22:18
Speaker 2: you had that package nice and with a bow on it,
22:22
Speaker 2: the law enforcement they shouldn't be saying, well, it's only
22:25
Speaker 2: suspicious and go away. They should be saying thank you,
22:28
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go talk to this person at least, and
22:31
Speaker 2: that's what this investigator did. He went with the team
22:34
Speaker 2: and knocked on the door and saw that they had
22:37
Speaker 2: a bit of a scam going in there. So they
22:38
Speaker 2: had there were other crimes, but no crimes in our
22:43
Speaker 2: case because our victim was an adult and she was
22:48
Speaker 2: making adult decisions and they're not the love police, and
22:52
Speaker 2: she was a victim of extreme love bombing, so you know, were.
22:58
Speaker 1: There, but police suspected there were other crimes going on.
23:02
Speaker 1: So did that individual or that group stop bothering your
23:08
Speaker 1: client who you were trying to help.
23:10
Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am, they absolutely did, and they were eventually arrested
23:13
Speaker 2: for the other crimes. They were contacted on the suspicious
23:17
Speaker 2: activity regarding our case, but after the knock on the
23:22
Speaker 2: door and led the investigation went ten different ways and
23:25
Speaker 2: they were arrested for those other crimes.
23:28
Speaker 1: Okay, So in your case, the perpetrators were local. In
23:33
Speaker 1: this case, what police have shared is that they believe
23:37
Speaker 1: this predator was likely in Nigeria unless the numbers were
23:42
Speaker 1: just being routed through Nigeria.
23:44
Speaker 2: We have no idea, right, you just don't know. Well,
23:47
Speaker 2: in our case, I can tell you this. Our victim
23:49
Speaker 2: was in New York and our predators were in organ
23:53
Speaker 2: So you know, we had to find law enforcement in
23:56
Speaker 2: Orgon that would be happy to knock on the door
23:59
Speaker 2: and say hello.
24:00
Speaker 1: Wow.
24:01
Speaker 2: Wow.
24:02
Speaker 1: I remember when you're working on this case, you were
24:05
Speaker 1: consumed by it. Yeah, wow wow. But thank goodness you
24:09
Speaker 1: were able to get some justice for this, you know,
24:12
Speaker 1: for this young person and her family who hired you.
24:15
Speaker 2: Wow.
24:16
Speaker 1: Amazing. Okay, back to our case. Back to our case.
24:19
Speaker 1: But I but all of you who are listening or watching,
24:21
Speaker 1: you see the parallels here. You see the challenges, right, Okay, So,
24:27
Speaker 1: as we said, the initial danger happened six months before
24:31
Speaker 1: this incident, and the person there was this person pretending
24:37
Speaker 1: to be country singer Luke Bryan and Jamie loves Loves
24:42
Speaker 1: loves him, and so the parents had a real fear
24:46
Speaker 1: that the predator was planning to kidnap Jamie. And here
24:50
Speaker 1: are the reasons. The scammer told Jamie to put tape
24:58
Speaker 1: over the security cameras in the house and had messaged
25:03
Speaker 1: her about meeting up right now, there's no reason anyone
25:11
Speaker 1: should be putting tape on cameras if you're just gonna
25:15
Speaker 1: meet a country singer or someone who has innocent intentions.
25:20
Speaker 2: Right, it's very suspicious.
25:22
Speaker 1: And it's threatening, right, you feel threatened as an adult,
25:27
Speaker 1: You're like, oh my god, what are they going to
25:29
Speaker 1: do to my child? Who is this person? Right?
25:31
Speaker 2: So, just up to so, just to what you described,
25:34
Speaker 2: the level you described up to this point, Anna should
25:36
Speaker 2: be enough for any law enforcement officers say okay, I
25:41
Speaker 2: want to see more and let's see if we can
25:44
Speaker 2: finish this meeting. Let's bring this individual out. Just on
25:46
Speaker 2: what you've said so far.
25:48
Speaker 1: Good point? Or why didn't the police then communicate with
25:52
Speaker 1: the scammer and then you know, tell him to stop,
25:55
Speaker 1: and maybe he would have gone away. She would have
25:57
Speaker 1: been heartbroken, but you know, no one dies of a
26:00
Speaker 1: broken heart. She would have survived this, right, Yeah, that's true.
26:05
Speaker 1: So you know, I think there's a little bit of
26:07
Speaker 1: blame to go around here.
26:09
Speaker 2: I do believe that.
26:10
Speaker 1: I do believe that. Okay. So the parents went to police,
26:15
Speaker 1: as we told you, and there was nothing that they
26:17
Speaker 1: could do. They tracked down the phone number, but other
26:19
Speaker 1: than that, they didn't try to get in the middle
26:23
Speaker 1: of this all right. Now, as we've said, since Tamra
26:30
Speaker 1: is arrested, what police did or didn't do has come
26:34
Speaker 1: under fire because the family is pointing the finger of police,
26:39
Speaker 1: saying we went to you for help, you didn't do enough. Okay.
26:43
Speaker 1: We've discussed how difficult this is, but I think it
26:46
Speaker 1: does show the level of desperation here. You try and
26:50
Speaker 1: do the right thing and then somehow, in your desperation,
26:53
Speaker 1: your wires get crossed and you do something incredibly stupid. Okay.
26:58
Speaker 1: So this family, feeling like the police aren't going to help,
27:02
Speaker 1: they're not going to do anything, then the mother decides
27:05
Speaker 1: I'm going to teach Jamie a lesson. Okay, let's get
27:08
Speaker 1: into the details here. So this is the alleged plot.
27:13
Speaker 1: The mother allegedly got Shannon Choulders, the caregiver involved in
27:19
Speaker 1: this conspiracy. Shannon then reportedly recruited David Quack and Nico
27:25
Speaker 1: Austria into the plot. Police say David and Nico posed
27:29
Speaker 1: his associates of Luke Bryan to arrange the meetup with Jamie. Okay,
27:34
Speaker 1: everyone here denies. Everyone says that they are not guilty.
27:37
Speaker 1: The father says, the two men even now, how would
27:39
Speaker 1: you know this? I guess anyway that they practice their
27:43
Speaker 1: kidnapping skills earlier in the day, supposedly to prevent issues
27:48
Speaker 1: like making sure that Jamie could slip out of the
27:51
Speaker 1: zip ties. Oops, oh my goodness. At some point, don't
27:59
Speaker 1: you think someone would have said, you know, I don't
28:01
Speaker 1: think this is a good idea.
28:02
Speaker 2: He would think an adult in the room. Yeah. And
28:07
Speaker 2: these are fairly at least mom and dad, fairly educated people.
28:10
Speaker 2: I mean, they're prec so they have more than the
28:12
Speaker 2: ability to comprehend the dark side of this if it
28:15
Speaker 2: goes sideways.
28:16
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, let's get to the day. November seventeenth,
28:19
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, just last month, Nico allegedly knocked on
28:24
Speaker 1: the door of the house, telling Jamie that he worked
28:27
Speaker 1: for Luke Bryan and then asking her if she would
28:31
Speaker 1: like to meet the singer. Of course, Jamie got in
28:34
Speaker 1: the car, which was the parent's fear right right and there.
28:42
Speaker 1: And that's the part that's so frightening for a parent.
28:45
Speaker 1: She did exactly what they feared. Sure, ah yeah, yea. I.
28:52
Speaker 1: Police say that Nico and David then drove Jamie to
28:55
Speaker 1: a remote field, and along the way they reportedly made
28:58
Speaker 1: the kidnapping seem real, demanding money from the victim. Allegedly,
29:03
Speaker 1: the kidnappers. When they got to the field, they zip
29:06
Speaker 1: tied her and the tamera was watching because she was
29:11
Speaker 1: going to jump in and rescue, right. That was going
29:13
Speaker 1: to be the AH moment, the revelation of ah. And
29:17
Speaker 1: when Jamie resisted, then the men tackled her and again
29:21
Speaker 1: restrained her with zip ties. Then they try they tie
29:25
Speaker 1: her to a tree. This is unbelievable. Jamie ultimately was
29:28
Speaker 1: able to escape. She fled to a nearby house. You know,
29:32
Speaker 1: the neighbors call police. It's like this poor woman has
29:34
Speaker 1: just been kidnapped and she's traumatized, so you know, what
29:40
Speaker 1: kind of injuries did she suffer? Well, you know, not
29:43
Speaker 1: major physical injuries. She was indeed bruised from the restraints,
29:48
Speaker 1: and she was seriously shaken up and for sure traumatized.
29:53
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a lifelong injury here, mental life. She's
29:57
Speaker 2: going to have trauma from that forever if she can't
30:00
Speaker 2: trust her mother, her parents. Now, what with the issues
30:04
Speaker 2: that she has, where is she now?
30:06
Speaker 1: Oh?
30:07
Speaker 2: My gosh.
30:08
Speaker 1: On December second, authorities issues issued and arrest warm a warrant.
30:12
Speaker 1: Excuse me. On December second, authorities issued an arrest warrant
30:17
Speaker 1: for Tamara. She turned herself into authorities. In addition to
30:21
Speaker 1: Tamar's arrest, police also apprehended Shannon Childress who's twenty seven,
30:24
Speaker 1: Nico Austria's twenty two, David Quack who quatch who's twenty six,
30:29
Speaker 1: and according to the reporting of the River Valley Democrat Gazette,
30:33
Speaker 1: all have entered not guilty please. All have been released
30:36
Speaker 1: on bond, and the mother has that extra special condition
30:39
Speaker 1: of no contact with Jamie, and all could be facing
30:43
Speaker 1: perhaps a maximum of thirty years in prison. If you
30:46
Speaker 1: combine all of these charges.
30:49
Speaker 3: This is serious.
30:50
Speaker 2: These are serious charges, Anna, and I find it very
30:54
Speaker 2: hard to believe that a jury is going to convict
30:57
Speaker 2: them that this single before you come some type of settlement,
31:01
Speaker 2: because really, if they've led the type of life that
31:04
Speaker 2: it seems to have, we don't know how all the
31:06
Speaker 2: facts yet.
31:07
Speaker 1: Well, if the prosecutors have said, no one here has
31:09
Speaker 1: a criminal record at all, there you go. They've also
31:12
Speaker 1: said the intentions were good, it's just the plan that
31:15
Speaker 1: was dangerous.
31:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, the plan was dangerous and dumb.
31:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
31:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you know, the court has discretion, and I
31:24
Speaker 2: think this is a great case for the court to
31:26
Speaker 2: apply minimal punishment, but a lot of it depends also
31:30
Speaker 2: on them embracing mom and dad that they did the
31:33
Speaker 2: wrong thing right, because by the way they're going vocal
31:36
Speaker 2: with this, sounds like they would do it all over
31:38
Speaker 2: again and then fact maybe even escalate it to teach
31:41
Speaker 2: her right. Really, this is a teachable moment for the parents,
31:45
Speaker 2: not the child.
31:47
Speaker 1: Oh that's so well put, because you know, what set
31:51
Speaker 1: out to be a lesson for Jamie really turned out
31:54
Speaker 1: to be a lesson for all the adults in the room.
31:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, and others in this country they're going through the
32:00
Speaker 2: same thing.
32:01
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. So you know, we have said that
32:06
Speaker 1: the father is not implicated in all of this, and
32:08
Speaker 1: he has come to his wife's defense. He wrote in
32:13
Speaker 1: a social media post quote, if your own special needs daughter,
32:17
Speaker 1: who has the mentality of an eleven year old, has
32:20
Speaker 1: an auditory processing disorder, and is a tactile learner, becomes
32:24
Speaker 1: influenced by an online predator she believes is the well
32:28
Speaker 1: known public figure Luke Bryan, and that predator tells her
32:31
Speaker 1: that he's coming to pick her up and she wants
32:34
Speaker 1: to go with him. How do you teach her someone
32:36
Speaker 1: with no concept or understanding of evil that danger exists.
32:40
Speaker 1: And that's his defense, that is the family's defense.
32:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, good luck with that defense.
32:48
Speaker 1: But now he has also said that his wife is
32:55
Speaker 1: a caring parent and she was just trying to do
32:59
Speaker 1: her best. Clearly, you know, not in many ways. I mean,
33:02
Speaker 1: when you think about it, she really didn't save Jamie
33:06
Speaker 1: from a predator because in Jamie's world, that kidnapping felt
33:12
Speaker 1: real and those people were predators in her mind.
33:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
33:17
Speaker 1: Oh, it's just what what a mess, What a mess,
33:23
Speaker 1: What a mess. And now we have Jamie who's been
33:26
Speaker 1: removed from the home, the father trying to regain custody
33:31
Speaker 1: of Jamie. He says he feels like he's being punished.
33:36
Speaker 1: This is the dad saying, quote, my daughter was taken
33:40
Speaker 1: from me. My wife is arrested for trying to do
33:43
Speaker 1: the right thing, for trying to save my daughter, who
33:46
Speaker 1: has never known evil, has been sheltered all of her life,
33:49
Speaker 1: and we couldn't talk her into understanding that danger existed,
33:52
Speaker 1: and so we wanted to show her that evil does exist.
33:56
Speaker 1: My daughter is in DHS custody and my wife is
34:00
Speaker 1: facing jail time. Yes, that is indeed the outlook right now. Yeah, Yeah,
34:06
Speaker 1: consequences fractions people.
34:09
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I have no problem with with the court taking
34:13
Speaker 2: the victim away from the parents at this time, and
34:17
Speaker 2: I think Dad needs to understand that. But you know,
34:22
Speaker 2: he's the daughter cannot be around either parents as far
34:26
Speaker 2: as that or just by mom or the location.
34:30
Speaker 1: Well, she's been removed from the home. Mom has no contact.
34:34
Speaker 1: I don't know if Dad is permitted to have contact.
34:37
Speaker 1: I would think if he's not charged, one would think
34:41
Speaker 1: there would be the ability. He has been in court,
34:45
Speaker 1: you know, he definitely has been in court. And the
34:47
Speaker 1: interesting I read, you know the GUZ that was reporting
34:51
Speaker 1: that even the mother was in court for the custody
34:55
Speaker 1: part of what the courts are deciding, you know, the
34:58
Speaker 1: separate issue. It's all fame and I guess she has
35:01
Speaker 1: a right to be there.
35:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, she has a right to be there. And maybe
35:05
Speaker 2: that's why the court was sealed. It was closed the
35:08
Speaker 2: hearing there also.
35:10
Speaker 1: Because of the subject matter and that you have to
35:13
Speaker 1: protect Jamie's rights to privacy here when they're discussing a
35:18
Speaker 1: lot of medical issues. Well, this is just a mess.
35:22
Speaker 1: So all the defendants were in court December tenth. This week,
35:27
Speaker 1: Jamie's trial is set for June twenty six According to Jeffrey,
35:32
Speaker 1: you know, he is supposed to be back in court
35:35
Speaker 1: on the custody hearing for December sixteenth. He's trying very
35:41
Speaker 1: hard to get his daughter back. Yeah, so we want
35:45
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts on this case. What do you
35:49
Speaker 1: think about the parents' action. Do you think it's a
35:52
Speaker 1: mitigating factor at all? That the parents were absolutely desperate
35:56
Speaker 1: and they say they were so frightened and they couldn't
35:59
Speaker 1: get an help. Should that be a mitigating factor at all?
36:03
Speaker 1: Do you think that this is the absolute dumbest thing
36:06
Speaker 1: you've heard in your life, and it's the most horrible
36:08
Speaker 1: thing that could have been done to this young woman.
36:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know. I will tell you in the
36:15
Speaker 2: case that we were talking about, my previous case with
36:19
Speaker 2: Luke Brian impersonator, everything did stop that those people went out,
36:25
Speaker 2: the suspects and that were eventually arrested for other crimes.
36:28
Speaker 2: But our victim a year and a year and a
36:32
Speaker 2: half later started reaching out to this person again Anna,
36:37
Speaker 2: Oh no, of course there was nobody there, but still
36:41
Speaker 2: couldn't comprehend it. Still wanted, was looking for was looking
36:46
Speaker 2: for love. This person was love bombinger and was withdrawn
36:50
Speaker 2: to that. So they know, you know, they seek their
36:53
Speaker 2: targets very well in that And I also remember one
36:58
Speaker 2: of my first phone calls to law worse in that case,
37:01
Speaker 2: that I think is very common in these situations, is
37:05
Speaker 2: the detective asked me, well, how do you know I
37:10
Speaker 2: don't see a crime here, but how do you know
37:12
Speaker 2: that Luke Brian is not texting her and doing that?
37:17
Speaker 2: Oh my god? And my response was, well, I had
37:20
Speaker 2: a feeling you might ask me that, So I reached
37:22
Speaker 2: out to Luke Brian's security and they confirmed nope, not us.
37:27
Speaker 2: So amazing, you have to do that kind of diligence, right,
37:30
Speaker 2: and that's the defense. So yeah, it's a battle and
37:37
Speaker 2: these scammers, because eventually, essentially that's what they are, they
37:43
Speaker 2: will adapt with the times. They will as we get
37:45
Speaker 2: better protecting our kids, if that's possible, or the victims
37:49
Speaker 2: in this, they get better too, coming in different ways.
37:52
Speaker 2: And you know our phones everybody out there listening to this,
37:56
Speaker 2: our phones ring probably five ten times a day by
37:59
Speaker 2: from SPA calls. If you answer those calls, good chance
38:02
Speaker 2: half of those are criminals with bad intents. So it's
38:06
Speaker 2: just a non going shower avalanche of these things coming in.
38:12
Speaker 1: So the question before all of us is what would
38:14
Speaker 1: justice look like in this case? Lewis, I'm curious, what's
38:17
Speaker 1: your opinion.
38:19
Speaker 2: Well, I think that the parents should be disciplined minimally.
38:25
Speaker 2: I don't see any gl time for this, and I
38:27
Speaker 2: find it hard to believe that a court or a
38:29
Speaker 2: jury would convict them of this. There are mitigating circumstances,
38:34
Speaker 2: I get that, but I think there's going to be
38:38
Speaker 2: a plea deal. This will probably never see a jury,
38:40
Speaker 2: and to me that sounds right. But we have to
38:44
Speaker 2: make sure that you know that everybody in this that
38:47
Speaker 2: contributed to this including the justice system, the law enforcement,
38:50
Speaker 2: and the Procecuor's office. Because everybody had a hand in
38:53
Speaker 2: this and pushing it in this direction, I think everybody
38:56
Speaker 2: needs to take a step back and see what they
38:58
Speaker 2: could have done better. Instead of trying to point the
39:01
Speaker 2: fringer to each other. Let's create a bridge here so
39:04
Speaker 2: we go work together and helping these victims who are
39:07
Speaker 2: easy targets. And that's the bottom line here, the easy targets,
39:10
Speaker 2: and you know you have to help, You just have
39:14
Speaker 2: to help.
39:15
Speaker 1: I think there must be consequences for actions. And here's
39:19
Speaker 1: why I double down on that part, because if we
39:22
Speaker 1: are to believe the mother's version of events and her motivation,
39:27
Speaker 1: it was all to teach her daughter a lesson. I
39:30
Speaker 1: think it's going to be very important that the mother
39:33
Speaker 1: be taught a lesson here. It's imperative because she lost
39:39
Speaker 1: sight of what was truly, truly, truly important here. So
39:44
Speaker 1: I think there have to be consequences. I think probably
39:48
Speaker 1: a plea deal can be arranged here. I don't think
39:53
Speaker 1: whether that includes some kind of community service. I don't
39:56
Speaker 1: know if they're going to do jail. I really present time.
39:59
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to that. No, one has
40:01
Speaker 1: a criminal record. So generally, you know, those are all
40:04
Speaker 1: mitigating factors. But there must be consequences for these actions
40:10
Speaker 1: in the justice system, beyond the consequences which really are
40:13
Speaker 1: happening in real life, the real life consequences whether Jamie.
40:19
Speaker 1: I hope that I hope that somehow the court can
40:23
Speaker 1: facilitate some kind of therapy and supervised communication for Jamie
40:31
Speaker 1: and her parents to discuss what happened, so Jamie can
40:37
Speaker 1: have a safe place to express to her parents her
40:43
Speaker 1: trauma and what they did to her, because they need
40:46
Speaker 1: to own it. Like you said, everybody needs to own it.
40:49
Speaker 1: And I think Jamie needs support and help to stand
40:55
Speaker 1: up for herself, to describe what happened to her and
40:59
Speaker 1: how trauma tizing it was. And what does Jamie want
41:02
Speaker 1: from all of this? What Jamie wants and what Jamie
41:05
Speaker 1: needs is paramount in getting justice in this situation.
41:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all right, kids, first, Jamie first.
41:16
Speaker 1: Jamie first, Jamie first. All right, can't wait to hear,
41:19
Speaker 1: can't wait to hear what you all have to say.
41:21
Speaker 1: It is time for our comments section. These are the
41:24
Speaker 1: crime cases you all are talking about on social media.
41:26
Speaker 1: And here's our producer, Will Updike, Kywill, how are.
41:29
Speaker 3: You, hey, Anna? How's it going good? Louis good to
41:32
Speaker 3: see you, always good to see you.
41:34
Speaker 2: Will.
41:34
Speaker 3: This is.
41:36
Speaker 4: This is one of our last recordings of the year,
41:39
Speaker 4: and so I'm glad that Lewis is joining us for
41:42
Speaker 4: this one. We got a little bit of a holiday
41:44
Speaker 4: theme going on with this week's common section. It's a
41:47
Speaker 4: case I'm calling an attempted get away in a manger.
41:51
Speaker 4: The case comes out of Gallatone, Italy, where a local
41:55
Speaker 4: mayor noticed something amiss in the city's life size stativity
41:59
Speaker 4: scene before locating a wanted fugitive. So, like I said,
42:03
Speaker 4: this all unfolded in Galatone where Mayor Flavio Filoni was
42:08
Speaker 4: walking across the Piazza Santissimo across a fiso.
42:11
Speaker 3: And I'm very sorry if my Italian pronunciation.
42:13
Speaker 2: Isn't good, that was pretty good.
42:15
Speaker 4: I agree, Yeah, I mean I need to brush up
42:19
Speaker 4: on that. I should have done a little bit more
42:20
Speaker 4: practice for the story. But every year this, uh, this,
42:24
Speaker 4: this sort of small town here they do a life
42:26
Speaker 4: sized activity scene.
42:27
Speaker 3: It's very ornate.
42:29
Speaker 4: Uh. They go all out, these local artisans sort of
42:31
Speaker 4: design the whole thing. It's just you know, it's kind
42:34
Speaker 4: of a labor of love. And they put so much
42:36
Speaker 4: detail into these scenes. They're like they're they're really life
42:39
Speaker 4: leg So Mayor Flavio here is reportedly out and about
42:43
Speaker 4: he's he said that he was walking to get some
42:45
Speaker 4: keys cut and he stops just to admire this Nativity scene. Uh,
42:50
Speaker 4: he's thinking, you know, wow, like the artisans did an
42:54
Speaker 4: even better job this year than they have, you know,
42:57
Speaker 4: every other year, and it's so good that he is
43:01
Speaker 4: stopping and he's actually gonna call one of the makers
43:04
Speaker 4: that he knows on the phone.
43:05
Speaker 3: He's like, wow, you really did it. And that's what
43:07
Speaker 3: he notices.
43:08
Speaker 4: One of the figures kind of move a little bit,
43:11
Speaker 4: so all of a sudden, this starts to look too real,
43:14
Speaker 4: and so he's pausing his phone call here and he's
43:20
Speaker 4: taken out of it. So he starts really hyper focusing
43:22
Speaker 4: on this one figure, and as he's looking a little
43:25
Speaker 4: bit more critically at it, he's thinking, well, these clothes
43:28
Speaker 4: don't seem quite right, Like this isn't like biblically accurate
43:32
Speaker 4: two thousand year old clothing. So he ends up approaching
43:36
Speaker 4: this figure and he's like, hey, what are you doing?
43:39
Speaker 4: So the guy this figure ends up speaking back to him,
43:43
Speaker 4: of course, and he says that he was part of
43:45
Speaker 4: the nativity scene and he's not gonna move and he.
43:49
Speaker 3: Plans to spend the.
43:51
Speaker 4: Night there, and so the Mayor's like okay, and not
43:55
Speaker 4: really quite sure about this, calls the police.
43:58
Speaker 1: Now officers are playing in the nativity scene now, so.
44:02
Speaker 3: He okay, So I'll show a picture for everybody there.
44:05
Speaker 4: But you know, you got your standard in the city scene,
44:07
Speaker 4: you got marrying Joseph and the baby over here, you
44:10
Speaker 4: got your wise men, and he's kind of over there
44:12
Speaker 4: with them. Which again you're probably counting the wise men,
44:16
Speaker 4: I would think in this situation.
44:18
Speaker 1: Just we know there should be three.
44:19
Speaker 3: Just the count.
44:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, the count should be maybe a little bit off. So,
44:24
Speaker 4: like I said, your Flabo calls the police and when
44:27
Speaker 4: they show up, the Future reportedly tries to flee into
44:30
Speaker 4: a local church, but they end up apprehending him and
44:34
Speaker 4: they find out that not only is a sky just
44:36
Speaker 4: like you know, jumping in on the Today scene, but
44:39
Speaker 4: he's actually a thirty eight year old Ghanian fugitive who
44:42
Speaker 4: was wanted in Bologna for assaulting a public official. Now
44:46
Speaker 4: that's the part that I think is kind of interesting
44:47
Speaker 4: here because Flavio was could have been in some sort
44:50
Speaker 4: of real danger if this this fugitive has a history
44:53
Speaker 4: of previously assaulting a public official. Luckily things didn't come
44:57
Speaker 4: to that. Please apprehended the fugitive and you know, they
45:02
Speaker 4: take him away right in front of you know, the
45:03
Speaker 4: baby Jesus and Marry and Joseph. Not a great arrest.
45:06
Speaker 4: Not a great day for that guy.
45:08
Speaker 3: And don't forget the wee donkey, Yes and we donkey.
45:11
Speaker 4: We got a lot of we got a couple of
45:13
Speaker 4: comments of O the goats, so we will get into that.
45:15
Speaker 4: But Flavio, you know, thank the police for his quick action.
45:19
Speaker 4: He also just noted how important it is for the
45:21
Speaker 4: public to stay sort of you know, visual and aware,
45:24
Speaker 4: because this would be some scenes, yeah, of the activity
45:27
Speaker 4: scenes you never know. Well if we got some things
45:30
Speaker 4: about this too. If you remember the film Home Alone,
45:33
Speaker 4: something similar happens. So yeah, the fugitive, though, is scheduled
45:39
Speaker 4: to serve out his sentence in Bologna. He's actually not
45:41
Speaker 4: being named by Italian authorities. I don't know enough about
45:43
Speaker 4: their legal system to know if that's standard practice or
45:47
Speaker 4: if they're just a planet in this case, that sentence
45:50
Speaker 4: is about a hair over nine months. Meanwhile, you know
45:53
Speaker 4: the antivy scene is down a figure, but you know
45:56
Speaker 4: they might have had one too many to begin with there.
45:59
Speaker 3: But yeah, just kind of an interesting story.
46:01
Speaker 4: I know, this one was kind of fun, just around
46:05
Speaker 4: the holidays and something like you would see out of
46:07
Speaker 4: a movie. I do like that, you know, the level
46:10
Speaker 4: of detail and everything is so ornate that you would
46:13
Speaker 4: question whether an actual human being was one of the figures.
46:17
Speaker 4: You really got to give a you really got to
46:20
Speaker 4: give a round of applause to those artisans because they're
46:22
Speaker 4: doing they're doing some pretty incredible work. If an actual, living,
46:26
Speaker 4: breathing figure is seems like part of the scene.
46:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this guy moved into the barn, that's what
46:33
Speaker 2: you're saying.
46:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, uh there, yeah, there there was no crib for
46:38
Speaker 4: a bed.
46:41
Speaker 2: So I'm thinking if that would have happened here in
46:42
Speaker 2: the US, he would have had a victim.
46:46
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.
46:47
Speaker 2: I don't know how a whole different deal.
46:50
Speaker 3: I don't know how squatters right, because.
46:53
Speaker 2: Squatters right, exactly right.
46:58
Speaker 4: We got a lot of comments on this one. The
47:01
Speaker 4: King of Games said, my dumb mass was trying to
47:03
Speaker 4: figure out where the fugitive was in the picture. I
47:05
Speaker 4: didn't post the picture with the guy. I will again
47:08
Speaker 4: for the for those of you watching, for those of
47:10
Speaker 4: you listening already described the picture, you get the idea
47:12
Speaker 4: there's a there's a there's a human being inside this
47:15
Speaker 4: nativity scene. Like I said, this harkens back to a
47:18
Speaker 4: home alone bit. Charlie said he must have just watched
47:21
Speaker 4: Home Alone. And if you've seen it in a movie before,
47:26
Speaker 4: I think it's not gonna work in real life. I think, yeah.
47:30
Speaker 4: I think that's why when these news stories say like happen,
47:34
Speaker 4: we say that sounds like a movie, not I've seen
47:37
Speaker 4: that exact plot in another movie, because it's already been
47:41
Speaker 4: figured out at that point.
47:42
Speaker 3: At that.
47:44
Speaker 4: Jesse L said, the goat is innocent. I swear we
47:47
Speaker 4: were at the landfill on the outskirts of town when
47:49
Speaker 4: the alleged crime was committed, which I don't think the
47:52
Speaker 4: goat was ever in question here.
47:53
Speaker 3: But I like that. I like that he.
47:55
Speaker 4: Already has some people standing up for him. So way
47:58
Speaker 4: to go, goat. And then I'm to end us on
48:00
Speaker 4: a comment from Bonnie Tea. This one got me. They said,
48:04
Speaker 4: I was warned about stranger danger but had never heard
48:06
Speaker 4: of Major Danger.
48:08
Speaker 1: Ooh, I like that Manger Danger.
48:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great one. We got we you know,
48:13
Speaker 3: we got some witty folks out there watching it. Listen
48:15
Speaker 3: to this show.
48:16
Speaker 1: I love our people.
48:18
Speaker 3: I know they're great.
48:19
Speaker 4: Do you have any additional comments from some of our
48:21
Speaker 4: people that you'd like to share?
48:23
Speaker 1: I do, I do. These comments come directly from YouTube
48:26
Speaker 1: and from our last podcast. As you know, I like
48:28
Speaker 1: to read your comments and respond when I can. And
48:30
Speaker 1: last week's case is a case that we've been following
48:33
Speaker 1: for some time, and it's basically about this cult where everyone,
48:39
Speaker 1: fourteen people in this cult were actually convicted of having
48:43
Speaker 1: a hand in this little girl's death. So they were
48:46
Speaker 1: all convicted of manslaughter because they didn't believe in medical
48:50
Speaker 1: intervention and the little girl had diabetes, and so she died.
48:54
Speaker 1: She died because they denied her her diabetes, and so
48:58
Speaker 1: both her parents and then the other members of this
49:02
Speaker 1: cult all rest in charge with murder. And then that
49:05
Speaker 1: a judge convicted them all of manslaughter. So some justice
49:09
Speaker 1: for this little girl. So the comments pertained to this
49:12
Speaker 1: particular case. So hearts sand Tarts posts. I really appreciate
49:19
Speaker 1: how you both have different perspectives and beliefs, but still
49:22
Speaker 1: respect each other. I hope to seem more like that.
49:24
Speaker 1: What we're talking about is Rich McHale Lewis, you know,
49:27
Speaker 1: Rich retired investigator. I wanted you know, the book thrown
49:34
Speaker 1: at the parents. I wanted everyone you know to be
49:36
Speaker 1: in prison for the rest of their lives for their actions.
49:39
Speaker 1: And Lewis, obviously Rich was looking at it from the
49:44
Speaker 1: perspective of the law, and where I was coming at
49:46
Speaker 1: it much more emotionally. And then Miriam three thousand and seven, rights,
49:52
Speaker 1: why did the authorities not withhold the girl from her
49:55
Speaker 1: relatives right from the time they knew about the insulin
49:59
Speaker 1: not being used for this girl? There was a prior
50:01
Speaker 1: incident where the police charged the parents with In fact,
50:05
Speaker 1: the mother even served jail time for withholding this medicine.
50:10
Speaker 1: So the question is why didn't the authorities intervene at
50:12
Speaker 1: that point? Because they could see the writing on the wall, right,
50:15
Speaker 1: and so the writer continues here, this was a high
50:19
Speaker 1: alert moment. They failed hurt in the first place. Those
50:23
Speaker 1: people and culture no longer with us mentally, and they're
50:26
Speaker 1: not coming back. Ever, what did they expect? So sad,
50:30
Speaker 1: my god, So those are the comments if you haven't
50:35
Speaker 1: had a chance, it's a very powerful podcast and really
50:37
Speaker 1: again examines what would justice look like because we were
50:40
Speaker 1: so impressed when this first case, when this case first happened,
50:44
Speaker 1: because the prosecutors were so aggressive in charging everyone with
50:48
Speaker 1: murder all of you.
50:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a it's a really sad case, really unfortunately
50:53
Speaker 4: entirely preventable.
50:54
Speaker 3: Her insulin was like in the house. She was dying
50:58
Speaker 3: for days.
51:00
Speaker 4: But that will do it for this week's comment section,
51:02
Speaker 4: I want to thank everybody who left those. You can
51:03
Speaker 4: comment on this segment over on our community or post page,
51:06
Speaker 4: and of course comment on any of our videos and
51:09
Speaker 4: it does read your comments as we show you every
51:11
Speaker 4: single week, and you can of course reach out to
51:13
Speaker 4: us at any time at my True Crime News. But
51:15
Speaker 4: that is going to do it for me until next week.
51:17
Speaker 4: Don't do crime well.
51:19
Speaker 1: Lewis wonderful hearing your insight into cases like this today. Honestly,
51:25
Speaker 1: where can people find you and follow you? Because you
51:28
Speaker 1: you know you're always following cases yourself.
51:32
Speaker 2: That's true, Hannah. My entire social media footprint can be
51:35
Speaker 2: found at get Bitinvestigations dot com.
51:38
Speaker 1: Great, I hope you have a wonderful holiday Lewis. Yeah, yeah, absolutely,
51:47
Speaker 1: it's always a pleasure having You can find me at
51:50
Speaker 1: Anna gen News and you can find everything that we
51:53
Speaker 1: do at my True Crime News. You can subscribe to
51:56
Speaker 1: our podcast. You can also sub subscribe to our YouTube channel.
52:00
Speaker 1: That's where we have this great conversation and I love
52:03
Speaker 1: hearing your comments, and also sign up to receive our
52:05
Speaker 1: newsletter at true crime news dot com. So until next
52:09
Speaker 1: time or next year, whenever we see each other again.
52:13
Speaker 1: This is True Crime News the podcast. I'm your host,
52:16
Speaker 1: Ana Garcia, Crime Never Stops and Dot your Doodle