Latest / Why We Do What We Do / The TSA in the USA pt. 2

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The TSA in the USA pt. 2 · Why We Do What We Do

0:03
You're listening to Why we do what we do? Welcome to Why we do
0:16
what we do. I am your safely arriving host Abraham Ah and I am
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your still not sold on the idea of this thing host Shane Psychology Podcast.
0:28
And in case you're joining us for the first time, this is part two
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and a two part episode series that we're doing on the TSA, So if
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you missed the first part, it'd probably be in your best interest to go
0:39
back and listen to the first part so you have all the context what we're
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talking about. We always try and keep as much information contained within every episode
0:46
as we can, and there's a lot that we've talked about already. So
0:50
as a quick recap, let's talk about what we talked about last time,
0:54
or let's talk about what we talked about let's review. I guess I should
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say what we talked about last time. I was a little salty about having
1:00
my soap taken away a couple times ago when I flew, so that was
1:04
one thing, and also we talked about that the TSA, or travel in
1:11
general, is a giant, giant industry that accounts for an enormous amount of
1:18
the GDP annually. The TSA spends something like eight billion dollars and a lot
1:25
of that money is used to do nothing. We have discovered that they have
1:27
never stopped a terrorist attack. Most of those terrorist attacks or planned attacks happened
1:32
prior to that person arriving at the airport. But the TSA formed is a
1:37
result of a very particular terrorist attack. That would be nine to eleven.
1:41
Yes. We walked through other various sort of events in the timeline that led
1:46
to specific policies from the TSA taking off your shoes, no liquids, all
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of that, and that those were all caught prior to the person getting on
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a plane. They were not caught by airport security, or at least the
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ones that were caught by airport security were caught through routine screenings and not anything
2:01
specific from the more intense measures that they've taken on, and that the policies
2:07
were largely reactive. We also talked about the fact that the people who are
2:13
professionals usually do a lot of planning and they usually know how to get around
2:17
the TSA's policies and procedures, and when they get caught, it's prior to
2:23
them ever boarding a plane, and there's really good intelligence agencies that are able
2:27
to detect and deter that kind of activity. Also, we learned that about
2:32
seventy to eighty percent of contraband or band items get through security. So when
2:38
we talk about this thing working or not working, we realize that it doesn't
2:42
really work that well because so much stuff gets through. But we did establish
2:46
it there was progress because it had previously been that weapons such as knives,
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guns, bomb vests originally got through at ninety five percent. So we have
2:55
made progress in the last five years or so of this prevention tactic that they're
3:00
looking at. Yeah, up from an F to an F plus, as
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today's d might say. Yes, Okay, we got you all caught up.
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day that it publishes, welcome, Thank you so much for joining us.
3:20
It is November fifteenth, and on November fifteenth, we like to wish all
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of you listening a happy National clean out your Fridge Day. Yes, and
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in celebration of Abraham it is national Drummer Day. Ay. It's also a
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National recycling Day, very important. I like that. It's also Day of
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the Imprisoned Writer, which I thought was really fascinating. Yeah. Actually that
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is very interesting that I kind of want to dive into that some more.
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But it is Educational Support Professionals Day. Hey, we support those, yes
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we do. We like our parents. It's also I Love to Write Day,
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which is that's I feel like that's me. I like to write.
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I like to do a lot of writing. That is you. It's a
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fact. Yeah. And Ample Time Day. I would like to make that
4:01
every day, which I think is funny because we're recording this on the day
4:04
after daylight dating to time, which means that we lost time. That is
4:08
true, right, or no, we gained time. No, we did
4:10
gain time, we gained an hour. We fell back. So it is
4:13
national Maybe she should have been today, you know, right, Yeah,
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it worked out. It's National bunt Day, yes, which you know if
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you like cakes, that's cool. I don't know if this is the national
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chain, but there is a place called Nothing Bunt Cakes. They just opened
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one down the road for me. Okay, cool, So it does a
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national chain. Great, it's so fun. Yeah, they got good stuff
4:30
National Spicy Hermit Cookie Day. That sounds tasty, that sounds very fall Yeah,
4:36
and the most wholesome day of the entire year it is Steaver One day.
4:42
Uh ALRP. Now, we recapped what we talked about last time in
4:46
discussing the TSA, So let's go ahead and get into all this sort of
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interesting stuff we haven't gotten too yet. And one of the things that we
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hadn't talked about that occurred to me is being a relevant part of this is
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you know, we call this security sort of theater, right, It's performative.
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It's meant to give the illusion of security. And so I had the
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thought that maybe that's part of it. It's that you have these screening procedures.
5:12
Maybe it's the case that this performance of rigorous security is sufficient to deter
5:16
and prevent would be terrorists from even attempting an attack because they see how tightly
5:23
controlled things are. Bruce Schneider, a security expert, points out that quote,
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no terrorist is going to base his plot on getting a gun through airport
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security if there's a decent chance of getting caught, because the consequences of getting
5:34
caught are too great. End quote. That is security doesn't have to be
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perfect, just scary enough that would be terrorists wouldn't be willing to test it.
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The sort of the idea here, that's a whole interesting thing to unpack
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in general. If we want to spend some time reading Murray Sidmund's Coercion its
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Fallout, we certainly could. I think that that's one of those things that
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we can unpack there in the freest nation in the world, apparently we have
6:00
the highest incarceration rate, so you know what is freedom and well that's that's
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a different episode. But yes, most of the country actually agrees with this.
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So one poll found that seventy nine percent of people thought that the TSA
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should prioritize screening ahead of saving travelers time and money. So like, screening
6:14
is more important than the travelers time and money, and about eighty percent of
6:17
people agree with that, even though the majority of travelers reported that security was
6:23
either somewhat or very inconvenient. Another twenty twelve Gallop poll found that fifty four
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percent of people rated the TSA as doing quote an excellent or very good job
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at preventing terrorist attacks. Of those people that fly frequently at least once every
6:36
year, that number is fifty seven percent. So you see in time and
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time again, the majority of people think that the TSA is doing a good
6:44
job and actually likes the security. Yeah, the performance is working for the
6:48
perception of safety from the point of view of the travelers, which I think
6:53
is very interesting And this is interesting logic if you consider that, then the
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implication is that people who fly more regularly believe that the TSA is on a
7:03
regular basis stopping or preventing people at the airport from executing some terrorist plot while
7:11
they're standing casually in line at security next to passengers with guns, knives and
7:15
bombs who simply don't make it through the screening procedures. And I gotta say,
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if I was standing in a line where I actually thought someone next to
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me might have a bomb, that they planned a detonated a crowd, I
7:28
would be unwilling to stand in that line, even if I thought that they
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might eventually get caught, I would certainly not want to hang out there.
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No thanks, right, So it's worth unpacking. I guess this question.
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I think the question is is this serving that role? Is it serving that
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role of like of that type of security that we're looking at. Maybe there
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are so few possible or potential instances of this type of problem to occur,
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it's kind of difficult to tell. We do know that most plots are prevented
7:56
before the TSA would be needed. We do know that identifying suspicious beha your
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programs that do occur, like if you see something, say something, We
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do that none of that has ever stopped the terrorist. We also know that
8:07
most of their measures aren't even catching the things that would make flying dangerous.
8:11
We also know that the basic screening procedures they have that they have always used
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has prevented some attacks that were planned, and not the excessive over the top
8:18
procedures that are used today. So we know that like what used to exist
8:22
was sufficient compared to today, which is like kind of over the top and
8:26
ridiculous, which hasn't necessarily prevented anything. And although we're not making the case
8:31
for this, some people have argued that it has had the actual opposite effect,
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that the facade of security makes people more relaxed around airports and flying by
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assuming that the TSA is catching dangers that it isn't actually catching, making it
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so that people who would try and do these acts feel bold enough to try
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it because they've seen how the performance really is theater and that it's not actually
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catching things, they'd be more willing to actually try and get things through.
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And so that's an argument that some have made, right, and I can
9:01
see some others making the argument like Vision makes about the Avengers, like our
9:05
very power welcomes power this challenge of like, oh, we have the greatest
9:11
security, people going oh, yeah, you want to see let's go ahead
9:15
and test this and let's see what happens. Others will argue that this security
9:18
and fear of flying has actually killed more people than it may have potentially saved.
9:22
So while flying remains one of the safest modes of transportation in comparing the
9:26
number of deaths three hundred or four hundred per year, driving remains one of
9:31
the most dangerous modes of transportation, killing upwards of thirty five thousand people per
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year and you twenty eleven paper in the Journal of Applied Economics, authors Blaylock
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at All analyze the increase in driving following nine to eleven and controlling for weather
9:45
and traffic, there are an estimated additional one hundred and twenty deaths every month
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from people driving instead of flying. Up to fourteen hundred more deaths per year,
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more than even tend to occur when terrorist attacks happens. So basically what
10:01
we're saying is that, you know, we don't take those debts lightly or
10:03
anything like that, and terrorist attacks are never okay. On the contrary what
10:07
we're saying, it's because flying is so much safer, Lowering the barrier to
10:11
accessing flying will likely save lives no matter how you spin it. Essentially,
10:15
driving is more dangerous than flying, but if we can make it easier for
10:18
people to fly, not necessarily less safe, but easier for people to fly,
10:22
then we might actually save some lives. It sounds like we're being sort
10:26
of shills for the airlines. We're not being paid by the airlines. It'd
10:31
be great if we're being paid by the airlines. Bringing on airlines, Yeah,
10:33
send us money. If you listening, have ever driven instead of flown
10:37
because you are concerned about the safety of it, terrorists or otherwise. And
10:41
I understand flying is like an intense thing. There are lots of reasons I
10:46
would don't like to do it, but it is much safer than being on
10:52
the road. And one thing to consider on there is that the people who
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drive airplanes or fly, I guess they're not driving them, but that pilot
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airplanes are rigorously trained to do that. The people who are out on the
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road are less rigorously trained to be driving and manipulating their vehicle and are often
11:11
distracted by various things, are often befuddled by basic Whether you complain about the
11:16
people who are out on the road, those are people who, in some
11:20
instances chose to be there instead of being on an airplane when they knew they
11:26
needed to get a very long distance. There are lots of reasons that people
11:30
will choose to drive instead of fly that are very practical. And we're not
11:33
saying that flying is the only our best solution to anything, just saying that
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it is safer and that fewer people will die if they are choosing to fly
11:43
instead of drive when they're making large commutes. As an example, I just
11:48
had a friend who drove from Florida to Rhode Island and try to do it
11:54
in a day and try to do it overnight, and we had to convince
11:58
them not to drive overnight. You know, eventually she pulled off the side
12:03
of the road and got adapt, but you know, before she kept going.
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But if she would have flown, would have been much safer, and
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its choice and all that. But like, imagine now you've got a two
12:13
hour, three hour flight versus a twenty hour drive and what that looks like
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and the safety that goes along with that. You know, that discussion,
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I think is pretty complicated, and overall, I think this discussion in general
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is complicated. It's complicated to attempt to understand the extent to which any of
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these procedures that we're talking about may or may not prevent someone from trying to
12:31
plan an attack, assuming that it will reduce the myriad of factors that may
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cause someone to want to engage in some attack. To simply how difficult it
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is. All of those things are complex variables to kind of unpack and look
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at. Making problematic behavior more effortful is a successful component of a comprehensive plan
12:48
to reduce those behaviors. So you know, if it is more difficult to
12:52
do something, it is less likely that people will do that thing. Making
12:54
things harder means that people will absolutely do them less. This is part of
12:58
why you might just grab a twinkie instead of an apple if you want a
13:01
snack, Like it makes sense and apples are fairly effortful to eat, especially
13:07
if you have sensitive teeth and you don't have a knife to cut it up.
13:09
You gotta wash it. That might be messy. Yeah, it's a
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whole thing. That's only part of the reason. Though. On the other
13:16
hand, if they are motivated to do something as extreme as debtonated bottle on
13:20
a plane or try to hijack it and oftentimes dye in the process, the
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amount of effort it takes to clear security is unlikely going to stop them from
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trying, and as we have seen, we are unlikely to catch them either.
13:31
So yeah, a lot of stuff going on there. So we'll continue
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talking about what I think the implications are here and understanding where we're going moving
13:39
forward, and also I think what we can do about a little at least
13:43
some things here moving forward. But first we are going to be shills for
13:46
the advertisers. Yay, Okay, we're back. So we've been talking about
13:58
the I think again the sort of logic around the TSA and how it works,
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right, pointing out the fact that one of the features of this might
14:07
just be to provide theater that implies security. There's also the feature that just
14:13
making it more difficult to get through. Security might be preventative and really for
14:18
my money, which as a taxpayer, the TSA is partially funded by my
14:22
money. Uh huh, that's true. The perceived threat of security and consequences
14:26
for getting caught is likely to have such a minimal effect of any that it's
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almost certainly not worth that eight billion dollar price tag that we mentioned. That's
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just I think we can do better. Yeah, absolutely, And I think
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we keep coming back to the eight billion dollar price tag, not because there
14:43
I mean, there are lots of programs that spend a lot of money.
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We understand that. I think what we're coming at is like we've found that
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it's not effective in the way that people think it is. I feel like
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the TSA is the dare of security, it's not working way that people think
15:00
it is, and it might actually be presenting a challenge. So maybe don't
15:03
spend as much money in this, and maybe spend money on things at work.
15:07
But it is important at this point to ensure that we point out that
15:09
we are not blaming the staff at the TSA for this. The TSA is
15:13
a job just like any other, and there are people trying to do their
15:16
job and provide for themselves and their families and be contributing members of society.
15:20
They are doing as well as the system allows them to do and as they
15:24
are set up to do. And yes, you're gonna have people that are
15:26
Maybe they tried to be cops and it couldn't work. They didn't it didn't
15:30
work out, so they end up getting into security because that's like the next
15:33
logical step because they still wanted like the authority and power. There are people
15:35
that do that, and we're not saying that to everybody, though most of
15:39
the time, my interactions with the folks of the TSA in those spaces has
15:43
been quite pleasant because again, they're human beings just doing their job, and
15:46
you are a human being encountering them at their job. So there are gonna
15:50
be days where you're they're at their best. There are gonna be days where
15:52
they're at their worst. But they are still human beings, so we're not
15:56
blaming them. It's a system at large. It's the problem. As frustrating
15:58
as it is is that they took my soap, like it can't be mad
16:00
at the person who did it. They were following the orders they were given.
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They want to keep their job, they've got to follow their orders.
16:07
It is the nature of how things work, right. Working at the TSA
16:11
is a thankless and miserable job. And a survey of three hundred and five
16:15
agencies, they found that the TSA ranked three hundred and third Oh my god,
16:19
which is to say, the third worst department to work for, coming
16:23
in just behind the Office of Intelligence and Analysis and the Secret Service, which,
16:30
as a reminder, is a job where you might be expected to sacrifice
16:33
your life to protect some old bureaucrat while following them around and babysitting them all
16:37
day. Like that's what you're contending with. Yeah, So I feel bad
16:41
for the people who are working for the TSA. I know why they hate
16:45
their job. I hate their job and I don't even have it. So
16:48
it's not their fault. It is the people who make the policy decisions about
16:51
this. It is their fault. Yeah. I would imagine that a lot
16:55
of people come in with the insight that it's going to be a pain in
16:57
the ass anyway, right, Like they're already people are already primed for airport
17:03
security to suck. So like people are walking in probably irritated, even though
17:07
they're getting ready to go on some trip and see family or whatever. They're
17:11
walking in already irritated with these people totally. So it's it's not making it
17:15
easier for everybody. One thing that helps is if you prepare to go like
17:21
you're when you are preparing, like wear shoes that are easy to slip on
17:23
and off, stuff like that. So but we'll talk about that. So
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what do we do? What do we do at this point in time?
17:29
Now we have all this information, what are we going to do now?
17:32
Some even inside of the TSA, have called for abolishing the TSA at smaller
17:36
airports that only handle small planes. If these connect to larger airports, then
17:41
those people do their security screening once they get to the larger airport. This
17:45
will relieve some amount of financial burden of paying for TSA without sacrificing very much
17:48
in terms of security. Basically, for those smaller regional airports that aren't like
17:52
that, they can do basic security checks. They don't need to do the
17:56
full security check like that, like you're seeing in every airport now the town
18:00
I grew up in the airport, there has one gait that's it, right,
18:04
So it's like may as well just you know, a basic metal detector
18:08
people walk through and they bore the plane right, and that really would be
18:12
all you need now. In response to this, Democrat Chuck Schumer of New
18:17
York balked at the idea, writing quote, TSA documents proposing to scrap critical
18:22
passenger security screenings without so much as a metal detector in place in some airports
18:26
would effectively clear the runway for potential terrorist attacks. End quote. Okay,
18:32
maybe, but unlikely. Also, I don't think their suggestion was to actually
18:36
abolish metal detectors either, So dopey, stupid Chuck. I like calling people
18:41
whose names are chuck, just calling them chuck and being really clear about that.
18:44
Yeah, all right, chuck. Chuck is a good word, like
18:45
a lot of hard, A lot of hard sounds in that. Yeah.
18:48
So, others are pointing out that alternative measures are likely to be much more
18:52
effective. Anyway, the time and money spent on intelligence gathering has seemingly been
18:56
a smart investment that is paid off, and it's likely preventing most terrorist activity
18:59
from taking place. Further, reinforcing the cockpit door has already proved to be
19:03
an effective deterrent, and further strengthening security of the cockpit is likely to be
19:07
an effective prevention strategy, as like a general rule, like if you can't
19:11
get in to control the plane, then you're mostly going to be okay,
19:15
right. And further, some have suggested that in rule in the general public
19:18
and strategies and willingness to engage would be terrorists would further help prevent subsequent attacks,
19:25
as it already has in several instances. This could be voluntary, so
19:29
nobody's forced to do this, and just increase responsiveness to threats. And again,
19:34
I understand that there's danger involved there, but if these people are making
19:38
it onto planes anyway, we want to figure out what we can do if
19:41
security is not working, which it seems like it largely isn't. Right absolutely
19:47
now, Pendulette of Penn and Teller sardonically pointed out that we could eliminate airport
19:52
security entirely if we just agree to all fly completely naked with no carry on
19:57
luggage. All right, I mean, those seats are gonna be real sticky.
20:03
Have to wipe down the seats between flights. Uh huh, uh huh.
20:06
What does sardonic mean? Oh, sardonic, what a great word.
20:12
It does not mean a sardine related I do know that, nor is it
20:18
completely the same as sarcastic. Nope, Nope, it's not quite. So
20:22
sardonic means grimly, mocking or cynical. So that just makes me realize that
20:27
I might be more sardonic than I am sarcastic. And that's a realization I'm
20:33
having right now that I'm gonna have to deal with just a new label.
20:38
That's fine, Yeah, I like it. It's fine, And I mean,
20:41
to Penn's point, I'd be game for the whole naked plain thing,
20:45
but they would need to vastly improve their heating and cooling game. Sitting butt
20:48
ass naked on a freezing leather seat sounds like a non starter for me and
20:52
probably most people, and as you said, might need to increase some sanitation
20:56
measures. But there's probably a there's an audience for this, I think,
21:00
yeah, I mean, you know, and here's the thing, maybe there
21:03
is, Maybe there is a business, or maybe there is a community.
21:07
We did the whole episode on nudism and what that looks like, so I
21:11
feel like there is an industry for naked planes, and so let's see,
21:17
let's see even and get that going. Why not try to make that work?
21:19
Start a naked regional airport and see what happens. I would imagine you're
21:22
going to get some bustling business as long as your sanitation stuff is up to
21:26
snuff. So right, we could also vastly scale back the nonsense practices that
21:30
we know are ineffective. Basic policy changes here. Stop asking people to take
21:36
off their shoes. That was done in reaction to something that nobody has tried
21:38
again since then and is unlikely to be a relevant threat to worry about.
21:44
Stop asking people to stand spread igle and body scanners. Those aren't even detecting
21:48
some of the explosives that people might be bringing on them on with them anyway,
21:52
and they're very very expensive. Stop asking people to throw away their liquids
21:56
that one should be a low hanging fruit. That was one of the dumbest
21:57
policies they've ever done. Stop paying people to look for suspicious behavior That isn't
22:02
a thing, like the research is there. This is just pseudoscience. It's
22:04
not catching anybody. Zero terrorists have been caught by that, and they spend
22:08
so much money on it every year. Yeah, and then just use regular
22:12
metal detectors. Keep the scanners if you want, for like luggage, but
22:15
you probably only need them for luggage. You don't really need them for anything
22:18
else, right, Yeah, you don't need to put people on them.
22:22
We have found that doesn't work, and people aren't hiding that kind of stuff
22:23
inside themselves, not really. I mean maybe there's other things they're hiding,
22:26
but that's a different conversation. Well, and they do they make it through
22:29
security anyway. This would ultimately all those things would save time, would save
22:32
money, would make airports much more convenient, and would make no difference on
22:36
how secure the TSA is. So all those things we just mentioned you could
22:40
eliminate, You could kind of rebuild that system, and it would probably save
22:44
I don't know, close to probably two billion dollars alone just from those changes.
22:48
At least now we haven't talked about like flying is bad for the environment.
22:56
It is, yeah, arguably worse than driving. Driving isn't great either,
22:59
and several companies are working on more environmentally friendly planes, and we'll only
23:03
get closer to that as a reality as more people continue to use flight as
23:07
a mode of travel. If people aren't using it, there's no point in
23:11
investing money in it, So we continue to engage the system, we will
23:15
get more eco friendly planes. I do get that as a concern that planes
23:18
are very bad for the environment, and like we're moving toward a future where
23:22
that is less the case. Right. We aren't trying to sit here to
23:26
ask people to relinquish their security. We're not asking people to relinquish their liberties.
23:30
What we are saying is, and this is kind of always the argument
23:33
that we arrive on, is like, let's if we're going to spend time
23:37
and resources and money on a thing, then let's make sure that we are
23:40
spending it on stuff that's the most efficient and most effective, which means that
23:42
we can use those resources that are kind of being thrown away for other things
23:48
as well. Totally, So, if we're spending eight billion dollars on a
23:51
program that is only like half working barely, then we can use the extra
23:56
money for the stuff that's being wasted for SOS, for universal health care,
24:02
for all the things that we would advocate for that would be more effective systems.
24:04
The gargantuan amount of fat that is choking the TSA to death is bananas.
24:10
We can get rid of some stuff and like reallocate those resources in a
24:14
really meaningful way, which is not to say that they're eating too many bananas.
24:18
They're probably not eating enough bananas. But you probably can't even bring a
24:21
banana in the airport. Yeah, it's both a liquid and a gel.
24:25
Yes, and the pilot could slip and that's a problem. Yeah, it's
24:30
bad. All right, Well we've clearly lost our way. We'll give way
24:33
to the advertisers for a moment and then come back and start wrapping this thing
24:37
up. Okay. So one of the questions I've had this whole time is
24:47
how do other countries navigate their security protocols? And you had a story about
24:51
your experience in Canada. Yes, so a couple of years ago, I
24:56
think it was like five years ago. Now, I flew to Canada and
24:59
flew in its had to go through customs and all that stuff. But as
25:02
I was flying within Canada, I went through metal detectors. I didn't go
25:06
through any body scanners, and it was a basic X ray machine for my
25:10
luggage. And so as I went to go through the metal detector, I
25:11
started taking off my belt, my shoes and everybody's like, WHOA, what
25:15
are you doing. You don't have to do all that, Like they actually
25:17
stopped from doing that. Yeah, they're like, ah, I got you,
25:19
and I'm like, I mean, yeah, sure, like I stand
25:22
out not only as a giant in the country, but you know, my
25:26
own behavior totally you know, outed me. But I didn't have to take
25:30
off my belt, I didn't have to take off my shoes. I had
25:30
to empty my pockets to make sure that there was nothing like extra weird in
25:33
my pockets. But that was it. It was so easy to get through
25:37
that airport and get through multiple airports while I was in Canada. Nice.
25:41
Yeah, I have never been to a Canadian airport, but that sounds lovely.
25:44
It was wonderful. Israel has the reputation of the quote unquote safest airports
25:49
because their drawcrona insecurity is worse than the US. If you can imagine that
25:53
with more flagrant racial profiling. Vehicle checkpoints, so they actually stopped vehicles as
25:59
the coming into the airport, aircraft checkpoints, they'll stop aircrafts, personal interrogations
26:04
and strip searches. So Israel is actually much worse. The United States is
26:08
not the worst defender here. Israel is doing much worse, although they of
26:12
course tout themselves as being ultra safe. Right. The EU adopted similar security
26:18
to the US requiring passengers to remove shoes, a ban on liquids, and
26:22
scanning people and luggage. So what you might experience here in the US,
26:26
you'll probably experience in Europe as well. In Japan, airlines and airports have
26:30
been largely responsible for their own security measures, which is kind of what most
26:36
of the United States travel looked like pre nine to eleven. A metal detector
26:38
and a scanning checked luggage and bags protocol was basically what they follow. However,
26:44
the standards varied from airport to airport and from airline to airline, so
26:48
the government has recently established a mandate to set security standards. However, this
26:52
is likely to impact security personnel more than passengers, except for some of the
26:57
more standardized screening procedures that ever one we'll get, so it's the probably won't
27:02
have something as ten tens as what we have here. Mostly they were concerned
27:06
that like it was so patchwork that they weren't getting a comprehensive security and they
27:11
just want some sort of standards to follow, which makes sense to me.
27:15
Yeah, I think that's reasonable. I think it's completely reasonable. Now.
27:18
The most distinct though that we found was that many countries have hired private security
27:22
firms to handle airport security. So although we're pretty skeptical the motivation of companies
27:26
whose bottom line is profit to handle sensitive human interactions, the general consensus seems
27:32
to be that private security in other countries is faster, less, onerous,
27:36
cheaper, and at least as secure as America's TSA. So they're saving money
27:41
and they are still doing the same job essentially, So kind of nice.
27:47
Yeah. I kind of found, both from right and left wing places that
27:49
I was looking that everyone's kind of like, actually, private security is probably
27:53
the way to go when it comes with airport security. As I said,
27:56
I tend to worry about what their motivations are when they're handling private, you
28:03
know, sensitive things like this. But because I saw such a universal call
28:07
for this, I was like, Okay, at least a most experts on
28:11
both sides seem to actually be in an agreement, and that is very rare.
28:15
Usually, if both sides are in agreement, it's probably something most people
28:18
are going to be on board with. So if that's the way to go,
28:22
I'm fine with it. The only thing is similar to Japan is that
28:25
I see as being a potential barrier is a total hodgepodge patchwork if you don't
28:29
know what you're going to get when you go to airport security, which I
28:32
think would be very inconvenient. So I think as long as there are still
28:36
standards, things will be fine. But they could potentially increase the efficiency of
28:41
the system and ultimately make it cheaper and more effective. So that'd be my
28:47
I think I'm on board with that. Yeah, I agree with you on
28:48
that. Now, if you've been listening to us for a while, you
28:52
might recognize that at one point we have section of our episodes we like to
28:55
call interesting tidbits. We also have take on points sometimes and call them interesting
29:00
tid points on accident. So here's are interesting tid points. I actually got
29:06
these from mental Floss, So thanks to mental floss for these these interesting ideas
29:11
around TSA and security. These are things you may or may not know about
29:15
going through airport security. Your pets, your pets that you bring onto the
29:19
plane, your pets that you travel with, they have to get pat down.
29:22
Those poor loving animals who ask for none of this. So dogs,
29:26
dogs are really great at this, but cats are apparently a nightmare. I
29:30
would imagine Chihuahas are probably a nightmare too, But cats are nightmare, and
29:33
if they escaped their carrier before they are pat down, they're considered a security
29:37
breach and a justifiable reason to shut down an entire terminal until it is apprehended.
29:42
Now I'm picturing like other animals that people might try to bring on,
29:45
Like you see the video of like the emotional support peacock that somebody trying to
29:51
bring on one time. Yeah, so, like, I imagine what that
29:53
process is like, trying to rifle through all those feathers and whatnot. You
29:56
know, I thought about that, or the emotional support python. Yeah,
30:00
exactly. TSA is just looking at a god. Noah, they're good.
30:03
Yeah. Apparently TSA uses code words to alert one another to attractive or difficult
30:11
passengers. So hotel papa is a term used to describe an attractive passenger.
30:15
The H in there means hot apparently, whereas describing someone as very nice is
30:21
meant to alert TSA agents to a very annoying or difficult traveler. They might
30:25
also use code numbers that would be unique to whatever location that are working in,
30:30
so they sort of have some codes to interact with one another to communicate
30:33
about passengers that they're dealing with that's so fun. I love that, as
30:37
long as it doesn't get like grossly overused or like turned into something really terrible.
30:41
Yeah for sure. Now, especially elaborate hairstyles are considered a security risk
30:47
as they can be difficult to scan or search and can hide weapons. No
30:49
information on whether searching someone's braids has turned up any weapons, though so so
30:55
far no knives or hidden in braids. I've had my bun search a couple
30:59
times. Yeah, not my buns, but my bun just one bun,
31:03
just one bun. TSA agents generally like it when people are tired, and
31:07
therefore tend to like evening flyers and non business flyers more. Early morning and
31:12
business travelers tend to be meaner, so they like the sort of late night
31:17
people where because the morning people who are often rude to them. I could
31:21
see that because they're waiting to get coffee or they haven't had coffee yet.
31:22
TSA agents frequently won't talk about the fact that they work for the TSA or
31:26
for Holeland Security to avoid criticisms and attacks from people. I would imagine that
31:30
like same thing, like if you work at the IRS, you probably don't
31:33
want to tell people you work at the IRS because you don't want to deal
31:36
with like all the negative stuff that people have to say about that. It's
31:38
probably not fun. We should actually talk about the IRS at some point,
31:42
because the recent proposals have suggested cutting funding to the IRS, and part of
31:47
the reason our tax system is such a disaster in this country is because they
31:51
keep cutting funding to the IRS and then complaining the IRS doesn't work well while
31:53
they're underfunding it, like crazy, Yeah, so that might be worth a
31:57
at least a mini at some point. Yeah. Sure. Apparently meats and
32:00
cheeses look pretty much exactly like C four when going through luggage scanners, and
32:06
so people who are carrying meats and cheeses their bags are frequently flagged for inspection
32:10
because they can't tell the difference between cheddar and an explosive device on the scanner.
32:15
Could you imagine trying to bring in a wheel of parmesan and like being
32:20
like, no, it's not a bomb. It's cheese. It's cheese,
32:22
dudes. That is my favorite. Like somebody trying to like like somebody like
32:25
listen, I got this, bree, It's not trying to blow up the
32:30
plane. The other way to say this is that C four looks like cheese.
32:35
Yeah, so general rule, don't bring cheese, don't bring C four,
32:39
don't eat C four, don't blow up cheese. Those are the rules.
32:45
That's a good take that should be the take home for this entire episode.
32:49
Now for full body scans, y'all are gonna love this. This is
32:52
fantastic. For full body scans, TSA agents have to specify a gender to
32:54
the computer, which I'm sure is a lot of fun. So it looks
32:59
for the correct bits. Gender ambiguous individuals are gender appearances that confuse the TSA
33:04
agent may result in the flag from the scanner that results in a pat down.
33:07
Therefore, trans and intersect people are much more likely to be flagged for
33:10
additional screening. Unfortunately. Yeah, this is again a situation where you've got
33:15
a binary system applied to a non binary group of people. Yes, so
33:21
for those people out there who are trands or intersex, you probably have already
33:23
encountered this, and if you haven't be alert you might have you might face
33:29
additional scrutiny at the airport or sorry, yes, we agree this is dumb
33:34
and not appropriate. Apparently, if you go to a TSA the well if
33:38
you're flying, you will be. But the TSA agents frequently rotate jobs throughout
33:42
a workday, as often as every thirty minutes that might change positions. They'll
33:45
switch between maybe running the scanner or checking tickets or searching flagged luggage. Like
33:51
they apparently just constantly rotating them through the different jobs that they do in the
33:55
security setting. Yeah, I feel like I've seen that. I feel like
34:00
I've been in line long enough to watch that rotation happen multiple times. I
34:04
think I have two and I didn't really know, like it just seemed like
34:07
it was a routine, Like I didn't realize that that was that common,
34:12
I think until an actual policy together than those. Yeah, if you're using
34:15
paper tickets, I tend to use paper tickets because I am an old man.
34:20
So if you're using paper tickets, they may actually use a ticket to
34:22
write a code on it to flag you for subsequent additional screening, or to
34:25
indicate that you've been through security already. So they may actually like note that
34:30
on your ticket. So you should look at like if there's any sort of
34:31
coding or we're writing on your ticket just in case, and I'm not sure
34:36
how you know what it is. But yes. When they write on your
34:37
ticket, it can mean a number of things. One of them could mean
34:40
that you're good. Another could be like a warning to the next person to
34:45
look at your ticket, to pull you aside and do the thing you know.
34:49
Yeah. TSA agents have to go through active shooter trainings frequently and be
34:52
vigilant against potential threats. If there's a credible threat, they may be asked
34:57
to avoid wearing their uniform while out side the airport, so when they're coming
35:00
to and from work they might have to change when they get to work,
35:04
and so this has resulted in heightened stress for TSA agents and has led to
35:08
a lot of turnover among people who work at the TSA because they end up
35:13
feeling like they're not safe at their job. They don't like dealing with that
35:17
level of scrutiny, would be being hated by people being afraid to come to
35:21
work, and so they'll just end up quitting after a short period of time.
35:23
Sometimes right right, Absolutely, TSA agents they have to constantly change their
35:29
gloves. I don't know if if you've noticed while you're traveling, but they
35:31
typically a lot of them wear gloves to handle luggage and like to deal with
35:36
people and stuff, so they have to constantly change their gloves. So when
35:38
you ask them to change their gloves, it's probably annoying and probably a waste
35:42
of time because they probably just change their gloves. They probably literally just changed
35:45
it because they have to change them so often. Right. TSA agents have
35:49
a probationary period up to two years where they're working not as a full full
35:54
like agent. After that time they are locked into the system and it becomes
35:59
very difficult to fire them short of them committing actual crimes. So assuming they
36:05
make it the two years, which a lot of them don't, but assuming
36:07
that they do, then after that they become very difficult to get rid of
36:10
if they're in the system right, and then I think this one's kind of
36:15
the kicker, as the people that are protecting you, the TSA agents.
36:19
There are no airport benefits for the TSA agents. There's no discounts on flights,
36:24
there's no preferential treatment, there are no gifts, there are no anything
36:29
additional at all. So you are working as a TSA agent and maybe you
36:31
get some government benefits, but you don't get any airport benefits whatsoever. I
36:37
mean I worked at when I worked at Starbucks, I got a freak up,
36:42
I got free drinks while I worked, and I got a free pound
36:44
of coffee every week. So it sounds like I got more benefits working as
36:46
a barista at Starbucks than the people that are protecting you from terrorist attacks the
36:52
airport get from their own airport that they work at wild potentially protecting you know,
36:59
they're actually doing precious little to actually protect anybody. Viya right, right,
37:04
point is valid, Yeah, right, right right. I think that's
37:07
what we have to say about the TSA. I think my big take home
37:09
is like, this is an institution that is making our lives miserable. We're
37:14
spending a ton of money on it. They don't like it. We don't
37:16
like it, the agents don't like it. Everybody doesn't like it. It
37:20
doesn't seem like it's working very well, and it is costing us a boat
37:22
load of money, and we can do better. So I think from the
37:28
psychological perspective of prevention, it's like possible that it kind of maybe works like
37:32
that sometimes a little bit. But it's the again, the people who have
37:36
already made that decision to like they're going to do some terrorist activity that is
37:40
unlikely to be. The thing that deters them is the image of security.
37:45
I think my only take on point, besides all the facts that it's a
37:49
lot of money, doesn't work the way all that stuff, is that again,
37:52
this is a system's issue, not a people issue. There are people
37:57
that use the system to be jerks, but for the most part, the
38:00
people that you're dealing with in the TSA are just people just trying to get
38:05
by, just doing their best in a situation like we all are, So
38:07
be kind to them. Yeah, it will probably work out better for you
38:12
in the long run. To be kind the people that are preventing you from
38:15
going into the airport in general, it's kind of like, don't be a
38:19
jerk to your servers, the people who are messing with your food. Like
38:22
it's kind of one of those things. Absolutely, except these people can stop
38:25
you from flying on planes forever. Yeah, And don't bring meat and cheese
38:30
in your luggage, yeah, or C four, I mean, don't bring
38:31
cheese or C four Like I think that's a fair easy, an easy thing.
38:37
Yes, there you go. All right, thank you so much for
38:40
listening. Thank you to my team of people, justin as our production and
38:44
editing person, Shane thank you so much for recording with me today and for
38:47
being my co host in general, and our social media coordinator is Emma Wilson.
38:52
As I mentioned, people who joined us on Patreon get extra behind the
38:55
scenes benefits, including at free episodes early up, so notes, all that
39:00
sort of thing. That list of people includes Mike, m Meghan, Leila,
39:04
Mike T, Justin, Kim, Joshua, Brad, Stephanie, Olivia,
39:07
Brian and Ashley. Thank you all for your continued generosity. We love
39:12
you so much. Yes, we love you so so, so so much.
39:15
Y'all are so wonderful. We appreciate you on so many levels, on
39:19
every level, on every level. We like to end our discussions with some
39:23
recommendations for things that we enjoy or like or have found that we want to
39:28
share with people. So when you hear this sound that's like part of our
39:31
intro music, then you're gonna have some ads as a warning, and then
39:35
it'll come back, and that means the ads are done and you can listen
39:37
to our recommendations. Yay, Okay, thank you advertisers. I guess maybe
39:51
yeah, let's get to our recommendations. Yay. I love recommendation. Recommendations.
40:04
Okay, I am recommending a game like I do sometimes. I don't
40:09
think I recommended this one. This is sort of better for a party game,
40:12
but I think it's only maybe seven to eight people something like that.
40:15
It's basically Boulder Dash, but the theme is fish. It's called Sounds Fishy.
40:20
People get delt random fish that are they're all gray, and you flip
40:24
them over and you secretly look and see what color you have, and if
40:27
you have blue, you have to tell the truth. If you don't have
40:29
blue, then you are you have to lie. And then the person who
40:32
is guessing holds up a card and on one side they have a question.
40:37
On the other side they have an answer that everybody else can see. And
40:39
then everybody gives them an answer to their question. Only one persons telling the
40:43
truth, and they have to guess who the liars are. And then if
40:45
they've guessed the liars correctly, guess who's telling the truth. If they make
40:49
a mistake, they have to stop, or they can stop along the way
40:51
if they want to, but then people get points for correctly fooling the guess
40:54
are And that's the theme of the game. So it's really fun, it's
40:58
really easy, really great for a party game, fairly small. You can
41:00
pick it up. You know, lots of places where they have board games,
41:04
so you might check it out. Sounds fishy, it sounds so fun.
41:07
I love that. I love that. You know, It's been a
41:07
lot of time since I've played any games. We used to do a family
41:10
game night, and right now in my house, I am the reigning champion.
41:15
I am undefeated. And there are games that are not skill at all,
41:17
but I'm just I just happen to win. It happen to be really
41:20
good at UNO. So I always love games like this where it's like,
41:23
you know, I can I can continue to my holy reign of terror in
41:27
terms of being the king of the games here. So it's good one.
41:30
You check it out. Yeah, I love it. I love it.
41:32
So I'm recommending a band. I'm recommending music. I love music, and
41:36
I have been on a new music kick more recently and I have found this
41:40
band called Hotline T and T. I will say, don't like the name
41:45
of the band. There are plenty of band names that I dislike where the
41:49
band is actually good. So they put out a new record called Cartwheel.
41:52
If you are a fan of kind of like slow shoegazy type of music,
41:58
like if you like hum if you like stuff that's got like some really good
42:01
melody, a lot of fuzz, a lot of like kind of it sounds
42:06
like very early nineties. You know. You can hear like a little bit
42:08
of sonic youth in there, a little bit of Pixies, that kind of
42:12
world, if you like that stuff, but like a little bit more modern.
42:15
I would say, check out this band. Okay, a friend of
42:17
mine saw them live, said they were really great. They played in an
42:21
abandoned subway station in New York and that they were really really cool. And
42:24
so, yeah, the new record is called Cartwheel. It just came out.
42:28
The band is called Hotline T and T. Yeah, you should definitely
42:30
give it a listen. Diget I do love the Pixies. Yeah, they're
42:35
so great, cool good stuff. All right, Well, if you agree
42:38
or disagree with anything we've had to say about the TSA, you should reach
42:42
out to us directly. You can email us at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com.
42:45
You can also reach us on all the social media platforms. That said,
42:49
If you would like, you can pick up some merch. We might
42:51
be doing some kind of Black Friday special thing. But regardless, there are
42:53
mugs and shirts and beanies and all kinds of good stuff over there, So
42:57
go check out a merch store if you're interested in any of that also supports
43:00
us and it looks cool like you're like, I have a podcast merch that
43:02
makes me really smart. That's how everybody thinks, what everybody thinks when they
43:07
see someone who has podcast merch, So you can join that elite crowd.
43:10
Otherwise, I think that is pretty much all that I have. Is there
43:14
anything that I left out or missed or anything you would like to add before
43:16
we wrap up today? Shane, Nope, I got nothing else. All
43:20
right, very good, All right, well, thank you everyone for listening.
43:22
This is Abraham, this is a Shane. We're out. So yeah,
43:24
you've been listening to Why we do what we do. You can learn
43:29
more about this and other episodes by going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks
43:35
for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day