Latest / The Daily Writer / Instagram Secrets for Building Your Audience (with Lauren V. Davis)

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Instagram Secrets for Building Your Audience (with Lauren V. Davis) · The Daily Writer

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: You might be active on social media platforms such as Facebook, LinkedIn, or Twitter.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: But are you active on Instagram, which is one of the most popular and fastest growing platforms?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: And have you ever wondered how to be more engaged and grow your audience on Instagram?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, those are questions I've been wondering about myself.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if you'd like to learn more about being successful on Instagram, you will love this episode.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks so much for joining me here on the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Kent Sanders, and I'm a ghostwriter and professor of communications.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is the show that helps you write amazing content so you can save time, stand out from the competition, and get more leads that turn into customers or clients.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've got to tell you, I've been waiting to bring you this episode for about six months.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason is that for a long time, I've really been wanting to do an episode focusing on Instagram because that social media platform has kind of been a mystery to me.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm active on Facebook, I'm active on LinkedIn, I'm not so active on Twitter, honestly.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I do have an Instagram account and I post there occasionally, I've always felt like it was a huge missed opportunity for me.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was something really cool about this platform that I needed to learn and I didn't know and I wanted to take advantage of it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: So whenever I'm on Instagram, it just feels fun and lighthearted.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's on Facebook, there's a lot of conflict sometimes.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of people arguing.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I use Facebook a lot, but let's face it, Facebook does have a lot of arguing on there.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Twitter just kind of stresses me out, and LinkedIn is, of course, uh typically all business.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And all of those have their place and they all have their value, of course.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: But Instagram has mostly been a mystery to me on how it works and how to use it well.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So a little while back, I asked my friend Andy Storch, who he would recommend as an Instagram expert, and he immediately said Lauren Davis is the person I needed to connect with.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, whenever I need a connection to somebody, Andy is one of the first people that I think of because Andy is kind of like Kevin Bacon.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: He's connected to almost everybody, or at least it seems that way.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm still thankful because, as you hear in this conversation, Lauren is a true expert on Instagram, but on top of that, she's just really a cool and down-to-earth person.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to tell you a little bit about her before we get into this interview.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Lauren works with people all over the world to overcome their personal branding discontent and to grow their presence so that they can focus on sales, exposure, leadership, and community impact through her marketing consultancy, Lauren Davis Creative, and her podcast called The Business Event Playbook.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Her expert social media advice has been featured in articles by Huffington Post, Readers Digest, as well as over a dozen podcast episodes, including the brand new podcast with Mike Kim.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, Mike Kim was a featured guest here on my podcast just a few months ago.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you might go back and listen to that interview if you didn't listen to it before, because it makes a great companion piece to today's episode.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Lauren also runs a record store called Culture Shock in Rockford, Illinois, which obviously makes her even cooler because I mean, what could be cooler than a record store?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, she patiently answers all of my questions about Instagram, including why Instagram is different than other social media platforms, how to use Instagram with your email list, how to write a great Instagram post, how to start building an audience on Instagram, and much, much more.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is a very fun and practical episode, and I know that you'll take a lot of notes as I did.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, let's get right into the conversation.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Lauren, thanks so much for joining me on the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited we are getting to have this conversation.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate you making time to do this.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me, Kent.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: I am so excited to be here and to talk to your audience.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is one of those interviews where it actually came about as a result of me seeking out someone who was an expert in Instagram.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times, and you know how this works, many times with conversations or podcasts or whatever, you have somebody that is interesting and then you you kind of figure out what you want to interview them about.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: This was actually the opposite where I was asking some people that I knew, I said, Who knows about Instagram?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know zip about Instagram and I really need to.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh my good friend Andy Storch said, Hey, I know just the person.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, that was you.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how this whole thing came about.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Andy is so sweet.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: He is just such a phenomenal guy and such a good friend, and just so good at what he does.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we are here to chat about Instagram, speaking of the gram or whatever other acronyms or uh short things people call Instagram these days.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I sound really old.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: I really need to become more hip, as my teenage son reminds me frequently.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I guess my first question is what is it about Instagram that you love so much?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that's a good question.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love Instagram because I do feel like even though it's owned by Facebook, it is a place that's a little less noisy right now.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you can really stand out as a personal brand.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: You can really um build your presence on Instagram, you can really connect with your community on Instagram if you start being intentional about how you post and what kind of value you're bringing.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like, you know, I have uh I have quite a few friends on Instagram, and I feel like I have met people through Instagram.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know I have met the people through Instagram, but what's really, you know, what I really think about is like if Instagram got wiped off the planet today, I'd probably be sad that I didn't have those followers anymore, which is a good reason to build your your email list, of course.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's that's uh a good reason.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think that, you know, I think that some influencers in the space, they they're gaining massive amounts of followers and whatever means possible, but they might not know every person or you know, really have a deeper connection with their audience.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's one way that's one reason I love Instagram, is because I my main intention, my main goal is to build my audience with intention and get to know them and make them my friends.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how would you say uh I hope I that I phrase this question correctly, but what is the vibe?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm on all these social media platforms, I'm not on Pinterest very much.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have an account there.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: My wife has actually set up uh like a board there, like it's clothes my husband should buy and wear.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, like I'm in my 40s, so I'm kind of out of that thinking about style sort of range.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think I have a board called Things My Husband Might Eat.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the very the very same thing.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe every every spouse has that on there.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: But every social media network seems to have kind of its own vibe.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, LinkedIn seems, you know, if you picture these social media networks as different types of people, LinkedIn is kind of like the person in the corner, like in their business casual.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're very serious.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, Twitter is kind of like the person who's just irritable all the time.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Facebook is like people just chatty, chatty, chatty all the time.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the vibe that I get when I'm on Instagram seems to be like we are the chilled out, fun crowd that you really want to hang around.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: How would you how would you describe the vibe of Instagram or the the feel of it as opposed to the other social media networks that we use all the time?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I like to I have this small teaching that I do.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um I do it for different workshops and different from state different stages.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's about thinking about Instagram like a really cool, chill house party.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: So when someone comes to your house for a party and you're the host, so you're the Instagram host, you're the host of your Instagram party.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Someone comes to your house, you open the door, you give them a warm hug in pre-COVID times, of course.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: You you invite them in, you know, they see pictures on your wall, and your pictures are of things that you maybe important moments in your life, important things that reflect who you are and who you are as a person.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: They walk into your living room, there might be a few pillows off the couch on the floor.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there might be a dog toy out or something like that, but you know, it's your home.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: You live there, and then you welcome them into your kitchen, and there's a spread of appetizers, and their favorite whiskey or wine is there, and you know, you're laughing and you're in you're introducing them to friends and you're connecting and you have this wonderful time, and then they leave the party and you text them and you say, Thank you so much for coming.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: You're you know, I'm so glad you were there.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like that feeling, like we all know that feeling, right?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like everyone can relate to that feeling.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I want people to think of their Instagram like.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the opposite of that feeling would be you um, someone walks into your party, you don't greet them at the door, they can't really find you, everything is in pristine condition, the music is too soft, so everyone's talking a little awkwardly.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, everyone is kind of cold and no one is communicating, no one's being introduced to each other, and the host, you finally find them, and the host is looking out the window, wondering where all of the cooler people are.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: That would be the opposite, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how a lot of people go about using Instagram.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, why don't I have more followers?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't I have more likes?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't I have more um things on my Instagram?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Why isn't everything perfect?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Everything needs to be perfectly curated in order for people to like it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: But what they're not focusing on are the people that are already there.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: And when you focus on the people that are already following you and already part of your circle and the people that are showing up to like your post every day, as long as you're focusing on what those people need, they're gonna bring others.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna bring their friends to your party, they're gonna introduce you to other friends, they're gonna make those connections for you, and that's how you build a real authentic personal community brand on Instagram.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: How often should we be posting on Instagram, would you say?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and I know there's there's probably not one set answer for this, but assuming you're we're using it correctly, should it be daily?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Should it be a couple times a week?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a recommended frequency?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: So there's no set amount of time to post on Instagram.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's no, you can't say, like, oh, if you should post once a day, you should post three times a day.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: What you should do is figure out how you can post consistently.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: So is that twice a day?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is that once a week?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Is that four times a week?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: However, you can show up consistently and post consistently is how many times you should post on Instagram.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's really Instagram boils down to the Instagram algorithm, and I I actually have a link for you for your show notes where we can we can give this to your audience so they can download and see the algorithm and how it works.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: But the Instagram algorithm is really highly based on your relationships with others.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: So if you have a good relationship and good in and you're engaging with the people who are following you, then when it boils down to when you're posting, your posts are always going to be on their radar because it first ties it into relationship and then it ties it into frequency.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's gonna show people like if if someone opens up their Instagram 20 times a day and you post once a week, you know, it's they're still gonna see it because you have a relationship with them.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't make time for engagement and relationship building on Instagram, then there's a chance they're they might not see your posts.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: So really the main factor is building relationships, engaging with others, and really getting to know people who are following you on Instagram.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: That is super helpful.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Can you break down for us specifically what do you mean by engagement and building relationships?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you mean you're commenting on their posts, you're liking things, you're sharing things?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Does it really consist of those kinds of activities?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so building a relationship.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So um, like for instance, on Instagram, the algorithm is very heavily based on like interest and in those relationships, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: So Instagram is gonna predict how much you care about a post and it ranks things higher for what matters to you, determined by your past behavior.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, it's it's kind of and this is like, you know, a lot of people are watching, you know, some documentaries about social media right now, and they're saying, like, oh wow, this is scary.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: The algorithms are watching us, they're assuming what we need.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's true.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's what yeah, we're we're all a product of these of these social media platforms.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they are they do have algorithms and you can find out about the algorithms.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so the reason I teach this algorithm stuff is because I want people to be in the know of how this works and to know how the behaviors that behavior works on Instagram.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it's first based on interest, it's gonna predict what you like.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that being said, if your customer, if you know what your customers like and you know what they're interested in, then you have a better chance of producing content that would interest the people who want to build a relationship with you, right?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: So then what it boils down to is the recency factor.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: So how recently a post was shared with prioritization for timely posts over week old posts.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where you know people say, should I post um all the time?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Should I post every once in a while?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: You should post what's consistent for you.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's first going to predict what you're interested in and what relationships you're building.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's gonna say, I know that Kent was really interested in this.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: He's always looking up stuff like this.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: So when this person who he knows who he's already built a relationship, posts something like this, I'm Kent's gonna see it.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna make sure Kent sees it.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um so then the next thing I would say is relationship.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: So how you're close, how close you are to the person who's posting it, it ranks people higher that you've interacted with a lot in the past on Instagram.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so that means that people that you are commenting with often, people you are tagged in photos and stories with often, people who you're direct messaging often who follow you, those people are gonna see all of your content first, and you'll see their content first too if you're following them.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes, it does.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm taking furious notes here.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe I feel like I'm seeing light bulbs like go flicker.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So yes.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Really, what those light bulbs represent is all the things that I'm doing wrong on Instagram, which are like dozens of things.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe this would be a good way to approach this.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let's I I often use myself as a guinea pig on this podcast.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just kind of put myself out there and let's let's take a run at it and see if see if I can improve what I'm doing.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, my my business is helping writers.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: I do ghost writing, that's really what my main business is.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I I love helping writers, I love teaching writing stuff, and so I'm wanting to develop some courses, maybe uh next year, some masterminds, uh community, who knows what, related to helping people develop writing habits, in addition to what I do for ghostwriting for business clients and so forth.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So what are the best ways that I should be using Instagram?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: What kinds of things should I be posting if I want to build an audience of people who are interested in writing?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I assume posts that contain maybe writing quotes, contain stuff related to my podcast.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know what.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is that kind of a good place to start?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a kind of a cheat sheet for good content.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's actually in that link also that I'll give you the perfect your life, your live stream.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna, but I'm gonna tell you right now.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that way if you don't have time to download it, we'll we'll just get it, we'll get it going right now.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: So for a personal brand, um, there is a cheat sheet list I came up with of things that always do well on Instagram, okay?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, awesome.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to hear this.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: The first thing that does well is other people, the the people that you're talking to.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: The second thing that does well is yourself.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: So under the people that you're talking to themselves, this is what people care about.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: They care about themselves.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: The first thing that they care about is how-to content, educational content, helpful advice, checklists.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: So checklists on how to do things, encouragement, inspiration, self-improvement, answers to frequently asked questions, posts that describe them to themselves.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: So posts that they can self-identify with.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's the first thing.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's themselves.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I I say that because not not because I'm saying, you know, we're selfish creatures, but we all care, we care about ourselves.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: We care about making our lives better and more fulfilled.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: So any content that helps other people live a better life and live a more fulfilled life or that they can self-identify with is going to perform best.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um, the second thing is you, they really care about you as a personal brand.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes people make the mistake of posting only stuff that helps other people, but they really, in order to build a relationship with you, they you have to let them in a little bit.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: You got to let them inside, right?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: They have to, they want to get to know Kent Sanders.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: They don't want to just get to know, you know, the outside shell of Kent Sanders.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: They want to know you, and that's how you build a personal brand using Instagram.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: So for like under the you category, they want to know a little bit about your background story.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: They want to know why you do what you do, what your big idea was, um, what your team is like.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: So even if it's, you know, a virtual assistant or a um, you know, a person that helps you with your design work or whatever it is, talking about your team in any capacity is very helpful for people because they like to know who's behind the scenes and how you're making things work.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because ultimately they want to be like you.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: They want to take, they want to look at to you as an example and they want you to kind of take the lead.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, your collaborations with other people.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: So whenever you collaborate with someone, they want to know behind the scenes stuff on that, what's going on with that, how you're working together, not just the result of you working together.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Your self-improvement, how you're self-improving, whether that's reading or um going to a conference, going to a workshop, attending a virtual summit, building a virtual summit, doing this podcast.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then and then they want to see behind the scenes content.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Behind the scenes content will always do very well because people want to know how things work in when when the final product is there, they want to see what happens before the final product and what's going on.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: So these content ideas actually work on Facebook, they work on Instagram, on LinkedIn, they work on Pinterest, um, especially those how-tos.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: These work on all the different platforms.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: And what you can what really helps after you know those content steps, what really helps for you to really build engagement and get more and quality followers is if you acknowledge the people who engage with those posts.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: If you ask questions to the people who engage with those posts, you encourage great behavior.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: So when people are um posting about you or tagging you, you encourage them and you don't just simply share it, but you share it with a personal comment or you you empower them and make them feel really good.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: When you write back to comments, when you're encouraging and warm, and lastly answer your messages, like answer your direct messages because if they're following you and you guys are messaging quality messages back and forth, Instagram is gonna establish that you have a relationship with that person and that they're gonna put your content in front of them more often.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is like a whole masterclass of all the things to do.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: So actually, I'm gonna go back and re-listen to all this and yeah.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna make a transcription of this and uh I'll run it through the transcriber and uh post this up on my wall because this is really pure gold.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate you sharing all this.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is really good stuff.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I do have a few follow-up questions about this.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the first thing is is it okay creatively but also algorithm-wise, to take the same thing that we post on Instagram and just repurpose that exact same content, images and links, whatever we write on Facebook, LinkedIn.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean Twitter's kind of a different animal, and I I get that, but is it okay to repurpose it just straight up or should we change it a bit, depending on the social media platform?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I think can I can I kind of de dissect this question?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, please.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because what I think you're asking, and I could be wrong, but what what this boils down to is the fact that people say, like, I don't have time to post on every platform, and I don't know if I should be on every platform.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, should I be on every platform?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: So the answer to that question is I what I my method that I use with my coaching clients and with clients that I work with, um, and even like some of you know, some top podcasters and stuff in the industry, I even tell them this.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: So this isn't, you know, this isn't for newbies on Instagram, this is for everyone across the board.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: What I tell them is pick one platform that makes social media super fun for you.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: So whatever platform that is, if it's Instagram, if it's Twitter, if it's Snapchat, whatever platform it is that's like this is my fun social media platform, and just go all in on that platform.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then choose one platform where you think that it will benefit your audience best.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: So whether that platform's Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, whatever.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and kind of use your time and manage your time to create content for those two platforms that are maybe slightly different from each other, but that are optimized for each of those platforms.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, obviously you there's no stories on LinkedIn, but you could use stories on Instagram if Instagram was your fun platform.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Just try to go all in on those platforms.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: But the idea beh behind picking a platform that's fun for you is kind of like your um concept that you talk about often about daily habits, right?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Starting a habit.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: So what I what my my thought is is um if you can pick a platform that's fun for you and if you can start on that platform and start using that platform and it makes it fun for you to open it up each day, then you can compound that habit by adding one more platform that you can go all in on and kind of use the similar same content but optimize it for that platform.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Once you add that then you can see which other platform you should use.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: I also very much recommend not just relying on social media.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that means having some kind of platform to stand on whether that is a podcast whether that is your blog whether that's your email list you want to make sure that you're that you are connecting with your people on your own platform because if social media changes and I predict it will change vastly in the next five to 10 years, you're going to want to make sure that you still have your audience and that you're still able to connect with them on a meaningful and deeper level than just using Instagram, Facebook or LinkedIn.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: That is such great advice because how many times have we heard of people who have built their whole business on you know Facebook or or Instagram or whatever and then something in the algorithms change or or something changes and their whole business just dies overnight, which is terrifying.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I am a I teach people social media.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: I love social media for the good things that can happen using social media.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Of course there's scary bad things on social media but there's also it can be used for so much good and for so much connection and so much camaraderie.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I really believe in the good power of social media.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: However I do think it will change I think that social media companies will be taking more responsibility for the behaviors in which you know young teens are using it or um in the ways that is generating you know people's uh psychological problems and stuff by you know likes and shares and and stuff like that because they are you know addicted to trying to get likes and shares and engagement.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not talking about that side of social media but we're talking about the connection and the wonderful side of social media but you should be using those good places on social media that good connection to build your platform elsewhere.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: So build it through your email list get your podcast listeners um build your platform somewhere other than social media and use social media as a vehicle to get there.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you were actually looking at my notes that I have here because and you of course you weren't but um the next two things that I wanted to ask about was actually podcasting and email lists and how those are connected to social media but really specifically to Instagram.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I struggle with knowing what do I do with my podcast as it relates to Instagram.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'll put up like an the social media image that's related to a specific episode that has the guest uh headshot and the title of the episode and all that stuff.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are there some some best practices for if you have a podcast for how do you promote that on Instagram?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: How do we do that in a way that doesn't seem like we're just like posting about us all the time sure I mean people listen to your podcast and they follow you because they want to hear about you.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: They want to hear about what you're doing.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: So what I recommend as a um a go-to strategy for promoting your podcast is to tell people a couple bullet points of what they'll learn inside the post.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because if they know what they'll be able to learn from that episode they're going to want to tune in.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: But that being said Instagram is definitely one of those platforms where people like to stay on the platform.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: So there's only one link out it's in your bio you can't link in a caption on Instagram I know which drives me crazy I guess that's a good thing ultimately I don't know.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: So what you can do so what you can do is actually say something like if you want the link to this episode just comment your favorite emoji you can do something like that and then direct message them the episode link or you can leave the link in your bio say link in my bio but the goal is to tell them what they're going to actually get out of the episode and in a way that shows them how they can take action because we've all there's there's so much stuff going on in social media right now.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: So many um different things and to look at and to read.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you want to make it succinct you want to make it precise you want people to know exactly what they're going to get out of the episode and if they have time to listen to it on their commute or if they have time to listen to it while they're on the bus or if they have time to listen to it while they're walking their dog like you have to think about how people are going to listen and what they can get out of it.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a good way to promote it because it gives people exactly what they need to know about that podcast.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I would also recommend oh go ahead no go ahead I would also recommend implementing stories into that strategy.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: So um when you're creating stories on Instagram which are those 15 second clips that disappear in 24 hours they're at the top of your Instagram when you're creating stories I would mix up the type of media you're using so use a combination of videos and still images and keep it really exciting as you're telling people what they'll get out of the episode how long it will how long it is and how how they can listen to it.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a certain percentage of personal versus business content that we should be keeping in mind like should it be you know 15% kind of personal things to 85 85% business or or personal branding related is is there some kind of balance there that we should be thinking about that's a hard question.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that there is any right ratio just to be completely honest because I think it's very customized per person, per personal brand, per their audience.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really more about what their audience is showing up for.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: So what I recommend doing is if you haven't done it already in your personal brand, switch over to a business account on Instagram because then you can get your analytics for your particular profile.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then what you can do is look through your analytics and see what people are responding to.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: If they're responding way more to personal posts you can incorporate more personal posts but then throw in some business posts now and then and because they have a relationship with you that they've been building through connecting on your personal posts in comments or through keeping the conversation going or in direct messages then when you do put out a business post they have a better chance of seeing it because they have been connecting with you where they connect with you.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: If they are connecting more to like your like I never thought of myself as an inspirational entrepreneur.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I was more educational with my posts but what I found was when I look through my analytics all of my top posts my top organic posts with tons of likes and tons of comments and tons of shares are all posts that are inspirational that people self-identified with and wanted to share inside their stories.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I found that my inspirational posts did better and then when I had something to say that was more educational people were still showing up for it because they liked my previous inspirational content and we connected over that content.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now is is there something how do you switch to a business account from a personal account?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean is it is it a complicated deal no so easy.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: So you all you have to do is go to your settings and then go down to account I think is the is I I I would hate to say it wrong on the podcast but it's in your settings on Instagram it's literally a lever a lever you you switch over.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's either either click professional account or creator account um you're gonna want to probably go for professional account that's like a more business account it's more contact based um creator accounts are a little bit more based on influencer um influencer lands so but if you're an influencer I would go with the creator account so it's really it's up to you but you the thing is you can switch back anytime.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to if you're like business life is not for me I'm not an entrepreneur anymore I want to go back to a personal account you can do that.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: I I have heard from my uh 15 year old niece that a lot of her friends have switched to a professional account because they want to see their analytics which is just so interesting to me.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's interesting.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it's like really easy to switch over there's no harm in switching over the only thing that happens is you are able to gather more data on what your audience is actually showing up for and what they are connecting with you on.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Wow that's fascinating so is there is there a time and a place for someone having both a personal and a business Instagram account so a lot of people have started their per personal account then they switch over then they start a new account for a business one and they keep them separate if you are a corporation like Coca-Cola obviously it's not you're not gonna keep a personal you're not gonna put personal posts inside your business Instagram you know you're not gonna see personal posts from the owner of Coca-Cola inside the Coca-Cola Instagram formula revealed if your goal is to build a personal brand I don't see why you would want to have two Instagrams unless one was just private and only for family or something like that.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know because really the idea of building a personal brand is the fact that people want to buy from people and they want to buy from people they trust and they build trust with you by seeing a little bit of your personal side.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're already bringing some of your personal side into your personal brand and into your brand that you're building as a personal brand entrepreneur, then having another personal Instagram makes not a ton of sense that makes a lot of sense.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay well I asked that because one of the people that I really one of my favorite authors is a guy named Ryan Holiday.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if you're familiar with him okay yeah I have got several of his books.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah he's he's great I love his podcast The Daily Stoic I love his book The Daily Stoic so I've noticed that he has his own personal social media stuff which has tons and tons of followers he's obviously very influential but he also has Instagram Twitter et cetera accounts for Daily Stoic where he he shares quotes and all kinds of stuff related to that and I was curious about his strategy for that and is there a time when if you have a specific brand like his brand is Daily Stoic um how is uh how is how does all that work you know in terms of is that helping build that side of his brand by having a whole separate deal well I think that the the I mean I'm I can't speak 100% accurately to it because I don't know I don't know Ryan personally or know his brand inside out.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: But what I would say what I would assess from that is that he's building the Daily Stoic in a way that uh attracts people that aren't connect that aren't um connected to him as an author necessarily they're like I want to I want this daily inspiration to move through my life but I don't but they're not necessarily connected with Ryan Holiday yet or they don't follow him as an author.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: So he probably my my thought is he probably started building that one first or started building Ryan Holiday first and decided to add in an additional one for separate branding purposes.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know I can't speak like completely 100% accurately on that because I don't I don't know his strategy on that.
• 33:42
  unknown: Yes.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and yes there is times when you could build two different Instagrams for certain reasons and there might be different reasons behind why he's doing that or why others are doing that.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're just trying to build your personal brand don't overcomplicate it for yourself just stick with one thing because who wants to update two Instagram profiles and a Facebook profile and LinkedIn and Twitter like just stick with one build it out.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: If you decide one day that you are like I really want one where I can just post pictures of my dog and my kid and our family vacation to the cabin get your personal one and just make it private.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's some really great advice and everybody out there is going oh thank you now I won't only have to focus on one.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah just focus on one you don't need to and especially for building that personal brand side of it.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: So once again I'm taking notes here good stuff.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now I do have two more quick questions before we start to wind this down because I know your time is valuable.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: One is how is what's the best way to connect Instagram to our email list?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: If we can't have links and posts, you know we just have one link in our bio how do we how can we I I wanted to use the word drive people to our email list but that sounds so impersonal.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know it's not like people are this big herd of cattle that we just want to drive to our list but in reality we do want to send people to our email list because that's a medium we control and we own unlike social media and other things.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: How do you personally link your email list and uh Instagram so there's a couple different ways we can go through the technical side of it first and then we can go through the strategy side.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: So the technical side of it would be that there's only one link coming out of Instagram and that's the link the website field inside your bio on Instagram okay so for the website link you could either build out a resource page on your website that has links to different places that you can constantly be changing or you can create a link tree which is like a app, a commonly used app where you basically it gives you a link and then you can create different um like different buttons that people can press when they click on that link it will bring them to a page where there's different buttons that they can press so that's the technical side of it because you could link them to signing up for your email, signing up for different things, different resources.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing would be the strategy side of it would be to constantly be adding to your audience's life on Instagram in a positive way to the fact to the to the effect that when you release something like a free resource for them or when you create a like a what people would call a lead magnet or some kind of resource that would benefit them something free and you announce it on your Instagram page they say oh you know what Kent is always delivering value to us he is always building us up and empowering us.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: I know anything he puts out is going to be great I'm gonna go download that.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: And when they go download it, they um jump onto your email list and that's one way to build your email list from the strategy side.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay so it's not so much a thing of we have to figure out all these sneaky ways to enable a link in somewhere it's just so in other words we're just adding value to people being a nice human being being thoughtful being creative all the things that that we should be doing anyway.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Sure and I mean checklist like like those the thing I was telling you about you know you could include the five first bullet points on a checklist and then have them download the rest of the 50 other checklist points in a free resource from your website you can link them to that website in your in your bio link you can change out the link in your bio as many times as you want um and it's really it's really about like giving them giving them some like okay it's not about giving them something in return because I've definitely put out my link for my email list before and people have just signed up for it just because they know that what I'm giving them in return is the value that I will provide them through my email.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: However you can use um a a free resource that you want to give a list and you can put that link in your bio you can advertise it on Instagram using that that link to that downloadable you can um guide people there by saying leave an emoji and I'll send you a a direct message if you're interested in this free resource and you can direct directly send them that link.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know the one thing that you just that I just want to be absolutely clear that you don't do is that you aren't robotic about anything that you're doing, that you're not automating everything, that you're actually connecting with people because that is how you will get people to your email list.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: When they believe that you as a person are showing up for them in the most genuine and authentic way possible and you're providing you're going to provide value that like them giving your email besides text message besides text message them giving you their email is like the most intimate form of communication that you can get so in my mind it's an honor to get people on my email list.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm if they want to sign up for my email list I'm like honored like oh wow they want me in their inbox that's huge you know so if I think about it in that way like what am I going to provide to them that would give me that honor.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love that man that's great.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Good this is like a again it's like a masterclass in Instagram I love this you've given me a lot to think about and a lot to take action on.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you really you've done the impossible you've convinced me I need to be spending a lot more time on Instagram.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I've kind of resisted it up to this point but now I'm realizing that you know this is um this is a pretty cool place I need to be investing more emotional energy into it.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Hey and you know what if your audience is listening and they're on Instagram go check out Kent's profile go look for Kent Sanders and check me out.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm at L Davis Creative and shoot us both a message shoot us a a direct message and tell us you listened because that's always really fun to get to know the people who are listening.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely I love that.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now also can you uh tell people about your amazing Facebook group that you have I know we're talking about Instagram but your group is on Facebook and I really want to make sure people know about that.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I have got this group on Facebook it's called Understanding Social Media Marketing for Entrepreneurs.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the idea behind it was that I just saw so many people giving out inaccurate information about how social media works or like ways to hack the system.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like okay if these people can have Facebook groups I'm gonna just start this Facebook group.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well I started this you know like maybe six months ago and it just blew up it was just like everyone was sharing it everyone was posting about it.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: I got lots of members right away and it's a really amazing group of entrepreneurs inside there.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: They are very helpful to each other they're constantly engaging and then what I basically do is I just share social media tips twice a week that can be beneficial to entrepreneurs, digital marketers, digital entrepreneurs and personal brands.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really just a value-packed group and it's free to be in there's no commitment.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: I just basically want you to come and participate and have fun and learn and be empowered to do what you do best.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: That is awesome.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and I want to uh definitely encourage people to do that of course I'll have links to that in the show notes as well as to all your amazing stuff including the two resources that you have um how to create your next 12 posts as well as um is it a should I say a document, a download a PDF that's talking about the Instagram algorithm in 2020.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah so it's it's a the first one you talked about is that it's 12 it's a brainstorming worksheet for you to be able to create your next 12 plus posts on Instagram.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's actually like up it might be 15 plus posts now, but I think I just left the title as 12 plus posts.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: So um it'll help you brainstorm out 15 of these really high engaging posts.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second one is an Instagram algorithm breakdown for 2020 exactly how it works some of the stuff we covered today but like way more detailed and that includes that checklist in it of great content ideas.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well Lauren thank you so much for taking the time to do this today.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: This has been an absolute blast I've learned a ton and I just want to take a moment to acknowledge all the value that you're adding to the world you have such a kind and generous and helpful spirit and we need more people like you in the world not just on social media but but in real life we really do.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate the fact that you are going way out of your way to add so much value to people and help them in their personal lives but in their business as well.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's just phenomenal.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was really my pleasure being on the show today.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Hey I hope you enjoyed my chat with Lauren I learned a ton and I'm sure that you did as well let me give you my three biggest takeaways number one is figure out how you can best post consistently and then stick to it.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: There is no specific answer on how often you should post on Instagram.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just determine what is doable for you and then stick to it.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, the Instagram algorithm goes by relationship then frequency.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: So again we're coming back to this theme that we've heard many, many times on my podcast which is focusing on building relationships.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that applies to Instagram interactions as well.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally takeaway number three is to take one platform that makes social media fun and then go all in on it.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Then choose one social media platform where it will benefit your audience the most so in essence you're choosing one platform where it's fun then you choose one platform where it's really going to benefit your audience the most and for me I think that honesty probably means Facebook and Instagram.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: My audience is pretty much writers and even though there's a lot of value on LinkedIn, for me I think LinkedIn's main value for me is connecting with prospective ghostwriting clients rather than trying to connect with writers who listen to this podcast.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know I need to give this some more thought I'm not totally clear on this in my own mind.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: I need to really I need to go back and listen to this episode a couple more times to really make sure I fully have processed all the awesome stuff that Lauren has talked about.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that you're going to listen to this a couple more times as well not for my sake but for the sake of your platform and to get smarter about Instagram because Lauren has just given us a wealth of wisdom and practical tips here.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well speaking of Lauren I want to give a huge thank you to her for being a guest on today's episode.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure and grab her free Instagram PDFs these will show you what kind of content that you should be posting on Instagram.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: She's already done the hard work and the research for you so I really encourage you to grab these.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: There is a link for those in the show notes so you can find that link in there.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: And also I will put a link to her Facebook group which is called Understanding Social Media Marketing for Entrepreneurs.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: And of course I would love for you to check out her podcast which is awesome as well and that is called the Business event playbook.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well thank you so much for listening I hope that you've gotten a lot of value out of this episode.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: As always you can find lots more resources for writers at KentSanders.net.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time remember that your writing has the power to change people's lives.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see you in the next episode.