Latest / The Kulturecast / Event Horizon (1997) — "Hell is only a word."

Transcript

Event Horizon (1997) — "Hell is only a word." · The Kulturecast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: We are in way, we are in way. A haunted ship.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I'm getting some really strange readings in here. A missing crew.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: This place is a tomb. DJ, where are you?
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: And infinite evil. This ship has been beyond the boundaries
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: of our universe. Who knows what it's brought back with it? Vacate!
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I want off this ship. I can't leave.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: She won't let you.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Event Horizon. Rated R. Okay.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Hello, everyone, and welcome to the CultureCast. I am your host,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Chris Stashew, and I am joined by my good friend
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: all the way from FlickAttack.com, where he's been writing about
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: films since before I was born. No, that's not the case.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: He's been writing about films since a while. Your friend
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: and mine, Rod Lott.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Hey there, baby bear.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Fucking God. Yikes.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: That's from the movie. What? From the movie.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Rod, why would you share what you call me in
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: private on this episode of The Culture Cast? How could you?
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: On this episode of The Culture Cast, if you don't
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: know why Rod is calling me Baby Bear, well, you're
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: going to find out because on this episode, we're talking
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: about a film that I'm a huge fan of. And
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: I know Rod is a huge fan of as well,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: because when I mentioned him, I was thinking about talking
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: about it. He was like, yeah, I would love to
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: do that. We're going to be talking about... Paul W.S.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Anderson's 1997 film Event Horizon. So the film is, like
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: I mentioned, directed by Paul W.S. Anderson on a script
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: by Philip Eisner, though there is an uncredited rewrite by
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Andrew Kevin Walker. Yes, Andrew Kevin Walker, who wrote Seven.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: It is produced by Lawrence Gordon, Lloyd Levin, and Jeremy Bolt.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: And it stars everybody's favorite stoic black actor, Lawrence Fishburne,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: or as I like to call him, Larry F. Also
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Sam Neill, Kathleen Quinlan, Jolie Richardson, Richard T. Jones, Justin
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Jack Noseworthy, the aforementioned baby bear, Jason Isaacs, Draco Malfoy's dad,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: and Sean Pertwee. The film is a haunted house in
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: space as it was pitched originally, but it is a...
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: A film about a spaceship that is created to travel through,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: that creates a black hole to travel through space and
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: time because the shortest distance between two points is a
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: straight line, as we've been shown in multiple films about wormholes.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: They did the thing in this movie. They folded the
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: paper in half and stuck a pen through it, which
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: they have done so many times. I think they even
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: did it in Stranger Things, even, which is beyond fucking hilarious.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a film about a spaceship that creates
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: a wormhole that it uses to travel through space and time.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: That spaceship was created by Sam Neill. And in the
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: process of creating the spaceship, he inadvertently creates a ship
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: that can travel to hell and back. No pun intended,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: literally going to hell. Or, as the comic books recontextualize it,
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: the chaos realm. We're going to be talking about the
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: film and spoiling it. It's from 1997. Do yourself a
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: favor and go see it. It's been like, you know,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: 20 plus years, so I don't know what you're waiting
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: for at this point. Don't keep waiting for that unreleased
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: footage to come out because that Transylvanian salt mine where
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: those versions of the film have been sitting forever are
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: gone now. So Rod, I am so very curious once, uh,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: once we kind of start talking about the film and
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: spoiling it, I'm sure we'll hear more about your, uh,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: long-term thoughts in the film, but quick thoughts on the
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: film and first time you saw it, any, uh, things
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: that stick out to you other than you're a huge
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: fan of Sam Neill as am I.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: So I saw this opening weekend, um, at an AMC
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: here in Oklahoma city. And I, I was the only
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: person in the theater. on a Saturday afternoon. So that
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: did not, I knew that wouldn't bode well for its
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: box office. Sure enough, it was a flop, but it's
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: come to, you know, it has quite a cult now.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: It's one of those films that got rediscovered or actually
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: discovered with that been a DVD and Blu-rays and streaming.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: So it, it accrues more fans as the years goes,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: as the years go on. But I've always liked, really
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: liked it. Even though the first time I saw it,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't quite a hundred percent follow what was going on. Um,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: this watch I think was my fourth and it's the
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: first with that I turned on subtitles and I learned
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: a lot more. So I like it a lot, um, still.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: And I feel, I feel fortunate to, um, have caught
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: some things that I have not caught before. Plus, uh,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: learned that there's a lot of, whooshing, groaning, and mechanical clinking,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: according to those subtitles.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Not a lot of tentacles squelching in this. That was
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: always my favorite one from Stranger Things season four was
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: tentacles squelching. which I always find to be a very
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: funny subtitle. It's interesting. You know, I think that this
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: film is a film that, you know, whenever we talk about,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: and we talked about this before, you and I have,
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: and I've talked about this so many times with other
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: podcasters who talk about films, at least specifically, there's this
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: phrase that we tend to use, which is, it'll find
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: its audience eventually, or it found its audience eventually. And
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Event Horizon is, is one of those films. It was not,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: it was not, not that it wasn't well-regarded when it
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: came out, but let's just talk about the director for
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: a second. Paul W.S. Anderson, not someone who people are like,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Hey man, the next Paul W.S. Anderson film's coming out.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: We're going to create a popcorn bucket for it. And
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: we're going to go all line up like we did
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: for Christopher Nolan's Odyssey and pretend like it's, you know,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: the next greatest film ever made for us. Like no,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: no one is doing that for Paul W.S. Anderson. I
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: think Paul W.S. Anderson for the most part is kind
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: of seen as a, I don't know, maybe a little
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: bit less hacky Uwe Boll. I don't know what the
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: perception is for Paul W.S. Anderson for the mainstream, other
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: than people knowing that he's the guy who directed the
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Resident Evil movies and the original Mortal Kombat. But the
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: films that he makes are not... critically well received. And
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: what's funny is I almost feel like this film is
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: like the standout in that regard, because it's actually a
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: good film that deserves a lot more credit than it
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: was given at the time. And like you've already alluded to,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: it's it's been kind of, you know, the quality of
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: the film has been relitigated in, in the, in, you know,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: the last, you know, 20 plus years since it came out.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: And I don't think we're saying anything like, Oh, we
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: found a undiscovered gem of the, of, you know, sci-fi.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Like no, no one is saying that because, you know,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: like we already alluded to, there's a comic book now.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I think this is a movie that, you know, Sam
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Neill had talked about on the record and talked about
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: the film needing more time. Like the people involved in
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: the movie even understood that the film was kind of
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: taken apart by the studio, which is unfair. You know,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: it seems to be a little bit of a, one
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: of those rush jobs as it were, the film was
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: approved 10 weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well that too. Yeah.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: The Titanic of it all. And you know, that's, that's the, that's,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: that's the crazy thing is like, yeah, this movie ends
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: up being released when it was because of Titanic, uh,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: and then, and Paramount needing to fill the gap for Titanic.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: But A film like this being approved 10 weeks before
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: it's being filmed is insanity. And given that this is
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: a practical effects and like CGI kind of, I don't know.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I would say like there's a lot. It's not like overdone,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: but in terms of like practical effects, there's a lot
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: of practical effects. I mean, again, they're like on a
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: spaceship the entire film. So it's one giant set. I mean,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: they never really are outside at any point. Other than,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: you know, some of the characters walking around. Yeah, they're
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: walking around in spacesuits, Richard T. Jones specifically. But there
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: is not a lot of, like, exterior, like, shots on
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: a planet or anything. It's all spaceship bound. So it's
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: wild to me that they're like, 10 weeks and we're
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: going to be shooting this spaceship movie? Like, all right, whatever.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Good gusto on them. But this is a film that
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I saw... I want to say I saw it sometime
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: either right when I graduated high school or early college,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: because I remember watching this a couple of times in college,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: just really late at night and really enjoying it. And
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: I enjoy it now. I mean, it's a It is,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: I think, a flawed movie. I think there are issues
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: with it, and I'm sure we'll talk about them. But
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: for me, it is a film that there's only one
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: or two other films that are like it, and I
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: think it definitely wears its influences on its sleeves. There
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: is one specific influence that we will talk about, and
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's the obvious one, that being Hellraiser, because
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: a lot of what A lot of the themes of
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: the movie are kind of Hellraiser adjacent, or at least
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: the ideas presented in Hellraiser adjacent. But there is so
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: much of this film that is unique to itself and
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: comes up with these kind of fun and interesting ideas
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: that are not. Anything to do with Hellraiser. And I
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: would like to remind everyone, Hellraiser did go to space
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: at one point. So we do get to see Hellraiser
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: in space. So this is not Hellraiser in space. There's
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: more going on than that. But I do think that
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: this is a film that, you know, like you already mentioned,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: and I will reinforce it, like it found its audience eventually.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: But it didn't have to look that hard. This is
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: not like some sort of like... weird indie film that
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: took 15 years for people to appreciate. Like this is,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: this is a relatively large budget, you know, for the time,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: because again, that, that factors into why this film is
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: perceived as quote, quote, a failure, unquote. But it is
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: a haunted house movie in space. I don't know what
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: anyone else would need to get from that, and I
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: don't think that the film needs to give me any
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: more than that. It does. It gives me more than that,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: I think, in a lot of ways. Like you said,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: there's a lot to kind of think about, and it
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: opens some interesting questions, and it does some interesting things.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: But to say that this movie didn't find its audience immediately, like,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: this movie's made for the Friday night crowd, right? which
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: is just insanity to me. Like in 1997, people didn't
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: go see this movie and I can't, understand why, I guess. Again,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: it's not a bad movie. It's a good movie. It's
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: a flawed movie. But I think nine times out of 10,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: it's working rather well. This is not like, oh, most
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: of the time it's a bad movie. But there's those
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: fun moments that I really like. No, this, I think,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: is a good movie throughout that does some interesting novel
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: things that are not just retreading old sci-fi tropes. And
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: I think that it also helps, obviously, that It's a
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: horror movie set in space. And it's a horror movie
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: set in space without monsters or aliens, which is another
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: kind of weird thing in and of itself. So I
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: don't know. I really like this movie. It is a
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: very different and unique movie. And what's funny is it's
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: not like you're like, oh, I'm going to go watch
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: this other movie that's like Event Horizon. It's like, no,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: if you want to watch Event Horizon, you just it's
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: event horizon or nothing else. I mean, there's not another,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: there's not really another option as it were like, it's,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: you know, you want to watch Hellraiser, you can watch
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Hellraiser one or two or three. And beyond that, I mean,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: your mileage is going to vary, but with event horizons,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: like you watch event horizon and that's it. There's this
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: and nothing else. So I don't know. It's, it's just,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: it's weird to me that this movie didn't succeed out
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: of the gate, but I'm glad that it has succeeded
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: subsequently because it, I don't know. It's just one of
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: those films that I'm always just like, why isn't somebody
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: done something else with this? And then the comic book
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: came out. But I'm talking about like, why isn't someone
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: done another film? Not like I don't give a shit
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: about any of the characters in this movie, frankly, but
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: like the idea of this demonic ship. I just don't
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: know why this hasn't been something that's been done again.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I can assume I know why based on just the
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: price of. doing things like this now in the amount
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: of time and effort. But this is one of those
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: films where I'm just like, why was this not mined
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: further by somebody else? Like we get all these sequels
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: to things that are so successful. And then it's like,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: oh my God, like I made a sequel to Blade Runner.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: It wasn't immensely successful. Well, Blade Runner wasn't successful when
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: it came out. So you made a sequel to a
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: movie that wasn't successful when it came out. And then
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the sequel wasn't successful and you were surprised. Like, I
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: guess I'm glad they haven't done anything with this because
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: it would probably come out. Nobody would go see it.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: And then they would be like, why are you doing this?
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: But at least we would have gotten something else, another
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: film to watch. But this is one of those films
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: that I always feel like is on like a short
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: list of things that I would like to see more
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: of in that world or universe. Just maybe not specifically,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: you know, Oh, Lawrence Fishburne comes back. Like none of that. Like,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I don't mean any of that nonsense.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: So. Totally. I know that they've, have tried to get,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I believe, like a limited series going.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Which would make sense.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Paramount has, you know, Paramount Plus. And I think that
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: would be cool. But I think you touched upon several
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: of the reasons why it didn't succeed without outright saying it.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: One was that it's that it is horror or really
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: a horror sci-fi mix that kind of varies between the two.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: depending upon what scene you're watching. But this was not
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: a time where horror movies were critically acclaimed. I think
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Scream had just come out, I believe the Christmas right
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: before this, and that was sort of the new thing.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: It was the self-referential meta tongue-in-cheek horror. That was kind
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: of the Kevin Williamson era. That was what was in vogue,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: and this sort of thing was not. And secondly, Paul W.S. Anderson,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: never to be confused with Paul Thomas Anderson. He had
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: only done Shopping, which was a little UK film that
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Roger Corman picked up for the States. And it's really
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: not memorable, but you can see that it has a
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: fairly gifted technician behind the camera. And he did Mortal Kombat, which...
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Say what you will, but at the time, it was...
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: It's still up there.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: It's still up there for the better video game movies,
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're with me then. Oh yeah, 100%. I always
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: liked it a lot. And that got me looking forward
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: to Event Horizon. In fact, that's probably the main reason
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I went to see this, was because it was from
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the Mortal Kombat guy. And I'll go on record as saying,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I'm actually... Pretty pro Paul W.S.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Anderson.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Despite his reputation, it is more of like a... I
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: think he gets the... Not like the Uwe Boll... Uh,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: but it's more of like a studio hack sort of thing.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Like the guy who adapts video games. I don't, I
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: don't know what the, I know what my perception of
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: him is, which is like, it seemed like he made
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: a lot of resident evil movies for a really long
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: time and nothing else. And the resident evil movies, varying
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: degrees of successful. They're nowhere near as successful as a
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Zach Kreger one that just came out, but okay. Like they,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: they were also, Like you already alluded to, they were
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: video game movies being made in a time and place
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: when people didn't take video games seriously. I think they
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: take video games seriously now, which helps. But yeah, like
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: and I think similarly here, like this kind of film,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: you know, it's not trying to be a serious movie,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: but it is a kind of film made in the 80s.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: And the late 90s are not the time to be
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: making a film like this, especially post Kevin Williamson. Because, yeah,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Kevin Williams, I mean, look, say what you will about Scream.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: I love Scream, but Scream also did have a effect
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: on the industry where there were a lot of posers
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: and copiers and, you know. urban legend and i know
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: what you did last summer and and all of those
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: films are kind of in the wake of scream and
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: like you said yeah and it then pushes the audience
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: expectation to be well we don't want the haunted house
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: we don't want the haunting in space anymore which is
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: i mean what this is this is a haunted house
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: movie in space they can't leave not because the doors
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: of the haunted house are locked but because if they
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: go outside they die because it's space.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: That's true although i'm still curious how they got they
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: i don't know if you notice this they have a
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: coke someone has a can of coke how did you
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: get a can of Coke up into space?
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: They have cigarettes to.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Load on airplanes, but they have closed cans of Coke,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: but that's, uh, I guess the streaming series would get into, um,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: the whole mythology.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Explaining all of the bullshit that is completely and utterly unimportant. It's,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: it's very, I mean, the thing that this movie reminds
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: me of, and I know that people want to compare
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: it to hell raiser, but I think for me, the
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: thing that this is like so clearly reminiscent of is alien, um,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, again, you know, it's like, that's the obvious,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of. comparative in terms of like, it's
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: a horror movie and it's in space and the crew
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: is getting picked off one by one, but there's no
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: monster here. And I honestly, I think for me, one
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: of the failures of this movie for the Friday night
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: audience is the lack of a monster. But I think
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: for me, that's the success of the movie is that
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: it's the monster in the walls, not the monster chasing
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: you around. And that's so much more interesting because there's
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: so many more directions you can go with it than just, well,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: there's the guy chasing after you. There you go.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's the monster within us uh not to sound
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: pretentious but it's true i just think his movies are
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: generally just fun this one is brainier than most of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: them but i even though i haven't seen anything he's
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: done in the last well since covid um i generally
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: like his movies this one uh I think his problem
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: overall is writing. He doesn't need to be writing movies,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: and he didn't write this one, which may be why
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: it has such a good reputation. Because I do think
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: he has style. He's more than competent director. And I
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: know the director's not 100% responsible for the sets, but man,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: the sets on this movie are so cool. And it
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: all contributes to an overall... mood and ambience and vibe.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: You have to know how to shoot a spaceship interior.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Like that's not for nothing. Like that's not easy. Like
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: none of, none of this filmmaking in this film is easy,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: which I think to your point, yeah, say what you
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: will about Paul W.S. Anderson's other things, but his ability
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: to make this movie and this movie actually live within
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: the space of films that are much more well-regarded, like
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: an alien, I think are impressive. And again, to create
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: a world that feels unique and lived in, that doesn't
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: feel like something I've seen a million times before, also
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: a genuine credit to Anderson and to the set direction
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: and the production design. And you also mentioned, I think,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: if Paul Anderson is not writing his own stuff, I
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: think it's fine. Once he kind of starts getting involved
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: in the writing process, things just kind of go seemingly awry.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. And, you know, again, he was kind of,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: you know, if he's a gamer, which I'm assuming he
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: must be a fan of gaming in some capacity because
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: he's made so much video game content as a director.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: And making more, apparently.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding. I think for me, the thing with
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Paul W. Sanderson is His stuff that is not video
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: game specific, it's fine, but it's better than the video
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: game stuff, I think, for the most part. Like, I
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: think for me, this is the best thing he's done, period. Period, right? Okay,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: you agree. And I would say in terms of like
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: the second best thing he's done, if it's not a
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: video game thing, it might be Alien vs. Predator. Because
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: that movie's bad, but it's not bad because of him
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: directing it. It's bad because it's fucking PG-13. Yeah.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: No, I like that movie. Again, I just generally like
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: his movies.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't dislike Alien vs. Predator. It's much better
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: than the other one that came out, the sequel, that
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: you can barely even see when you watch it because
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: it's so dark the entire time.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I'm a broken record. I just generally like
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: his movies. And I knew I was going to like
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: this one from the start because anytime a film you
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: like goes from the studio logo and like, you know,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: makes it part of the movie. And this one is
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: just a paramount mountain and it goes up into space.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: And I was like, yes, I am with this. And
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: then they put on the soundtrack. That's like Michael came
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: in with orbital, which is quite a, quite a collaboration.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: I was just, I was in love right from the start.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: And so I, I was just primed for this when
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I first saw it. And again, and I didn't come
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: out of it. Like I didn't know that I could
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: go home and explain it to someone exactly what happened
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and why, but it was just cool. And it made
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: me think, and it still does. And it's, it has
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: really memorable sequences. It, it, I mean, yeah, I'm not
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: saying anything that you haven't already. It's just, it's a
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: damn cool movie. And it feels, I like that it's self-contained.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I like movies that are in space and basically confined
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to the ship. And this one has like, I guess,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: two ships, three maybe. But it's all in there other
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: than that short spacewalk. And that's just, I don't know,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: that's up my alley. for whatever reason, that scratches an
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: itch that I hold so dearly. In the words of
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the movie, it is locked, cocked, and ready to rock.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Well, and I don't know what it is about it
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: either for me, but I agree. I think there's something
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: kind of really compelling about a closed spaceship film where
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: it's like, you know, in a haunted house movie, there's
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: still the possibility of being able to escape. In a
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: space film, there's an inevitability to what's going on that
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I think I find very appealing because when it's done
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: right and well and interesting, the films do kind of
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: speak for themselves in terms of the quality. For as
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: much as I look at this film and go, okay,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: I can see in 1997 why someone wasn't resonating with it,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: the CGI is not the best. And sure, some of
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: the dialogue is not great. But all the acting's fantastic.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: The music is great. And again, the story, the thing
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: that really bugged me about the way this movie was
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: received at the time is the story is very original
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: and is not something that was being just bandied about constantly.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: To have a spaceship essentially possessed by the devil, or again,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: it's not outright explained what is going on, which I
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: think also helps, you know, that's the thing, you know,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: to joke about the comic book, recontextualizing everything, the comic
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: book just takes away all the ambiguity completely and makes it,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: you know, well, it's this and it's this and it's that,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: and it's this, it's like, okay. I mean, they go
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: as far as to even name the demon that is in,
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: that is kind of invested the ship and has also caused, uh,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Sam Neill's character to be kind of influenced by everything.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: And that's the same character that they reference in hereditary, uh,
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: On top of everything else, by the way, it's payment.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: The king of hell. Which is the character from Hereditary
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: that they talk about over and over again. So it's like,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I actually don't even want you to tell
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: me what it was. Because that's not, I don't know.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: For me, that's not what I need from this kind
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: of movie. What I need from this kind of movie
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: is exactly what the movie gives me. It has kind
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: of an interesting high concept premise. It has some interesting
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: fun twists. And I think by the end of it,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: like you said, I don't need anything else. I don't want,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: and what I, and you know, even if I were
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: to say like, well, by the end of the movie,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: here's what I, here's what I want from the end
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: of the movie. Here's what I wanted more of. at
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: the end of the film, it would not have been
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: to learn why Dr. Weir made the ship. And it
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: definitely also was not, how did the crew of the
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: event horizon die? I don't care. Like I, that actually,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: the less explained the better for those things, because those
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: things are not a question that I had a question about.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: The things that I had questions about were the, I
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: guess the things that the movie's actually asking me to
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: ask it about, which is like, where did it go?
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: What does that mean? How does it affect the people
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: that are on the ship? How does it affect the
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: people once they leave the ship? Can they leave the ship?
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Those things are much more interesting than why did this
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: happen or what happened to the people beforehand? We saw
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: what happened to the people beforehand as much as we
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: need to. Uh, and yeah, it's, it's odd to me.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: I always, I don't know. Whenever I watch this movie,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I'm always just kind of bummed out by the fact
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: that it is one of those movies that had to
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: find its audience because there were so many other movies
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: that were coming out at the time that were nowhere
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: near as creative as this film, especially in just the
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: visuals that people, you know, well regarded immediately at the time.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: And this film had like find its audience, uh, like, okay,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: a sci-fi horror movie, a horror movie really shouldn't have
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: to find its audience in terms of like the Friday
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: night audience is right there. Uh, you know, the slender
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: man movie and all these other kind of bogus cheapo
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Friday night movies had have made more money than this
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: film did. Like you said, when it came out, you
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: were the only one in the theater. I think that
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: must've been the case like broadly for this film because it,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: it was not, it was not financially successful. It costs
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: like $ 70 million. and made like 50 possibly you know.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Which is probably made its money back by now given
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: that it's been issued so many times on dvd and
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: blu-ray i mean they keep putting out additions so i
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: assume it's it's uh in the black i guess i
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: would say so now i i i think what you
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: said about what it reveals and what it doesn't reveal
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: mostly is a choice that I do appreciate creativity creatively.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: It reminds me of the shining, the hotel and the shining,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: like explains about as much as why that place is haunted.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: And then this, and I like that, like how much
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: of what's going on with Jack Nicholson in that film,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: like they don't really get into it. They hint at
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: it and sort of, you know, poke holes in things
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: that let you draw your own conclusions, which, if you've
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: seen the documentary Room 237, a lot of people have.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: It's a very serious joke by Stanley, and when he
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: stands there and shakes the guy's hand, the file rack
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: becomes an erection, which is a very serious joke. What
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: are you talking about?
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: You have to. Yeah.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I've seen it. That movie is insane. I love it.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: But like, it's one of those things where anytime I
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: talk about it, I just always think to myself, like,
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: you know what? Any explanation is a good one. As
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: far as I'm concerned, if you can back it up
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: with evidence, I'll believe whatever you say. Right.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I think so. On this viewing, you know, I watched
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: it with subtitles and I just learned little details that
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: set it up because the dialogue is not great. especially
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: at the beginning when it's all like techno babble you
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: know here's what's going on and i just picked up
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: on more of the establishing things that i hadn't before
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: um and this but this is a movie that rewards
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: multiple viewings like you already have your bearings expectations are
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: history right they're way in the past you already know
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: what it is you already know what it is and
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: it's just about revisiting that world and how it makes
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: you feel and i love that you know, here we
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: are in space and there's lightning in cloud, like storm
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: clouds around. I love that. I, me too.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: It knows exactly what it is. It doesn't, it's not
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: trying to be any more than it is. It's wearing
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: so much of its influences right there. And I just, I, again, like, Oh,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: there's no lightning in space. Like, yeah, but who gives
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: a shit? Like, that's not the point. It's cool.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: It looks cool. Yeah. It sets the mood. It's, I
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: think the, so, for the most part, um, you know, there,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: what I wanted more from it is like you, it's like, well,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: I should say it's not like the explanation. I think that,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: that I just I noticed gaps I guess in the
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: scenes like you know when we first see Sam Neill
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: he's on this ship by himself and then the next
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: scene he's on the ship with all these other people
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: they never show him getting from one to the other.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: And so you could almost not even notice that he's
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: made this transition, but there's in his, I think his
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: progression to, you know, being the evil Sam Neill with
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: scars all over his face and everything. It kind of,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: he just sort of happens too quickly.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Way too quickly. Seeing some gaps, some scenes missing that,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: whether they got to shoot it or not. And I
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: know there's this fabled, incredible director's cut that we'll never see.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: But I don't know if it's a case of they
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: just didn't have time to shoot it or they had
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: shot it and had to cut stuff out. But that's
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: the kind of thing, like some of that connective tissue
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: is just what I think is missing. It's not about
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the background mythology, who, what, where, when, why, how. It's
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: just connecting, you know, threading all the scenes together, I think.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: And I completely agree. I mean, you know, to speak
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: to the kind of the Sam Neill of it all,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: what he said about the film, he said, I think
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: it's like the movie is like 30 minutes too short
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: is what he said, which is I mean, again, I
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: completely agree. You know, it for me, I think, is
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: maybe even. I mean, I would watch another, I would
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: watch a three hour version of this movie. I just
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: watched a three hour version of a fucking clown chasing
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: kids around, you know, like I, I watched three hour
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: versions of stupider, less successful, less original things. Uh, I mean, again,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: that fucking second it movie, all it does is retread
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: old ground because those old grounds were successful. That's why
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: it was doing that. And that's why I appreciate event horizon.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: It doesn't, it doesn't do the same thing over and
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: over again. Like it doesn't take it upon itself to
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: beat you over the head with, Oh, it's demons. Oh,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: it's possessed. Like there's so many ways that the ship
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: is expressing what's going on. And I think it's so
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: smart because we have each of these characters having a
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: different external thing that has happened to them that the
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: ship is exploiting. I like that so much. I think
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: that's so smart and so fun and so interesting because
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: it allows you to show that the ship is, it's
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: not just, you know, it's not just Jason and chasing
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: after people. Like there's some nuance to what the ship
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: is doing. It's, it's, it's causing you to go crazy
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: and it needs, you know, it needs a crew. That's
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: the thing. The ship needs a crew. The ship needs
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: someone to like, I don't know, like it's never explained
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: that the ship needs someone to man it or not,
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: but the ship is in need of a crew because
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: that is what is made clear through, through most of
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: the second act and third act of the film is, like,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: you know, the ship needs a crew to, to man
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: it to hell and back. And it's like, why we
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: don't know for what reason is unimportant, but that is
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: the motivation of the ship apparently. And I like that.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Like I said, so much of what happens in the
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: film is driven by the characters and their own kind
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: of backstories that it does feel like there's stuff missing.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, we only get like lines mentioned about things
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: that have happened in the past, but it feels like
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: there are monologues for each of the characters explaining kind
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: of like they're, to coin a Westworld, they're like, you know,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: their core, their core programming, their, their, their cornerstone, like
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: each of them has a thing that the ship exploits
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: and it feels like we don't see all of them,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: but there were versions of each of those scenes for
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: each of the characters. And yeah, it, I don't, you know,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: the thing about that, let's talk about the director's cut
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: thing for a second. This is one of those like
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: lost media films. It is, I think, and you know,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: you said it like, we'll probably never see it. I
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: don't know if we'll never see it, Because like anything else,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I think there is a high possibility chance that somebody
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: someday is just looking through VHSs somewhere and they find it.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: We've heard that happening with other things. It's not impossible.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: But what's funny is the director's cut, the thing that
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: people want from the director's cut is not what we're
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: talking about in a lot of ways. What people want
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: from the director's cut is all the kind of gory,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: gross shit that is– Again, you know, in a lot
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: of ways, like very forward thinking for this film. You know,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: I just recently rewatched Hellraiser and Hellraiser is a pretty
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: gnarly film, but it's only gnarly in like two or
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: three scenes. It's not really pushing it. And this movie
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: is not really pushing it either. I mean, this movie
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: is really not pushing it. And it feels like the
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: stuff that they cut out is a lot of kind
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: of the gnarlier, grosser stuff. But I also, like, I
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: think for what the film is doing, it actually works
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: where it's just like flashes of it. We just see it. Like,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: cause again, like, I don't know why you would need
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: to like, oh, here's the full 20 minute cut of
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: the other crew ripping themselves apart and having a fuck
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: orgy and like blood and viscera. Like, what do we,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: how much more of that do we really need to see? Like, what,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: what is that? What is that going to do for
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: me as a viewer? Because I don't need to, I
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: don't need to see it. it being kind of characterized
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: the way that they've done it here, where it's the
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: ship kind of giving them these visions, I think thematically
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: makes sense. And so for me, it's like, whenever I've
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: kind of been hearing the conversation about the director's cut,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: it's always about the gross stuff, not the, like you said,
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: the connective tissue that is so clearly missing, especially with
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Sam Neill's character, who is effectively the main character of
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: the movie. And halfway through the film, it feels like
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: they hand off to Lawrence Fishburne to Larry F and,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: and Jolie Richardson of all people, um, who, you know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, Jolie Richardson, I haven't not in enough things
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: other than nip tuck, which is the one thing that
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I can like think of her from like consistently, but
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: they hand off to Sam Neill's character. And I almost
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: don't even understand why they hand it off. Cause he
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: could have just been the main character all the way
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: to the end. And like, and he dies, like that's
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: a horror movie thing. You can actually get away with
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: that in a horror movie more than you can in
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: most genres. But yeah, for me, I just I feel
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: like so much of the missed opportunities in this movie
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: are in the director's cut. But when the director's cut
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: conversation is had about this movie, that's not what people
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: are wanting from a director's cut. And that's the part
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: for me that I'm just like, I mean, sure, more
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: gore and gross stuff. Fine. But that doesn't fill in
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: the gaps like the stuff I actually want to see does.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I don't need more gore and to see the porn
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: orgy or whatever, but I mean, I'm up for it.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: I definitely, you know, I'd watch it. Oh yeah, for sure.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: It's like, it would be best suited for like, you know,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: here's in the age of DVD special features, you know,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: here's the scenes we cut out. I don't. Yeah. I
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: don't want a director's cut just to like, I don't
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: want that to be the definitive version. In the same
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: way that George Lucas keeps messing his stuff up to
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, well, that version he saw in theaters
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: in 1977 doesn't exist. Here, here's this new one. I
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: stuck some CGI crap in. I hate that kind of
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: retooling that they do. And I fear that that's what
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: would happen with this. Whether Anderson wants it to or not,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's what would happen. But yeah. I
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: don't need that. I don't need that. I'm content with
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the greens and the blues and the silvers of the
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: ship and just how it looks and how the doors
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: are diagonal and they move, you know, they open like
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: a diamond and the doors have teeth on them. And
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I just, the way that the corridor is shaped like
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: an eye, everything is shaped like an eye in this movie. Eyes,
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: eyes is, eyes is, eyes are like a, It's it's
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: a thematic touchstone to this movie, but. The circuit boards
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: that the you know, the hallways of circuit boards that Samuel.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know solution, but it just looks so cool.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: And I think that that, you know, that maybe hurt
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: the movie, too. Cause you know, there is this whole like, well, it,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a nice to look at film, but
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: you know, it has, you know, it's a shitty plot.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: It's kind of the other, it's kind of the, I've
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: seen some of that, you know, kind of as well,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: the conversation like, well, it's an interesting idea, but it's
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: poorly executed. And it's like, you know, it's nice to
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: look at it. It's a guy, it's gothically inspired. And
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: I would say it is like, I obviously, I think
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: as well as you do, like I can tell what
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: inspired this film in terms of the look. And it's,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: you know, it's gothic architecture. It's a sense of kind of, again, like,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: leaning into the haunted house of it all. I mean,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: the chamber where the warp drive is, is completely unnecessary
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: in terms of like cosmetic design, other than if you're
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: trying to make it look as horrifying as possible. And
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: like you mentioned, so much of the ship is similarly
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: designed where it looks like a Gothic cathedral and they
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: talk about it being inspired by a Gothic cathedral and
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: the production design, you know, has said Notre Dame was
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: part of the inspiration and it works. You know, I
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: think that it works, but it does, I think, lend
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: the idea to like, well, it's nice to look at,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: but there's nothing else there. And I think that there's
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: a contingent of kind of the reviews that I read
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: that came out at the time that say that. And
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's fair, but I do get it.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Because again, if you're not willing to meet the film
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: where it needs to be met in terms of what
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: it's doing, it does just kind of seem like, well,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: it's at least a well-produced film in terms of production design.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: It doesn't look terrible. But if you don't like the plot,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: that's kind of the other kind of component to it.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: And that's the thing I noticed with some of those reviews.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, it's nice to look at, but I
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: don't really think that the plot holds up. It's like, okay,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: that's fine. At least people can agree it's an interesting
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: designed film. Because like you said, it's just, it's so
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: unique and no one has ever done anything else like
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: it with a spaceship. And I mean, to even go
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: to the, like you said, the design of the spaceship
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: itself is so unique and weird. There's like this long
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: chamber connecting the front of the ship and the back
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: of the ship. And it's, it feels like, you know,
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: a passageway from one, from one world to another, or
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: you can use it as a number of metaphors is
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: the film. I'm sure could, or someone much smarter than
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: me would, but it, it's so different in almost every
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: way that I guess I just wouldn't, I guess I'm
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: not surprised people didn't resonate with it because I do
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: think that there's some of this where it's just like,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: if you don't, if you don't meet the film where
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: it needs to be met, you're not going to like it,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: but at least you're not going to be bored while
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: watching it because it's interesting to look at.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: It's, it is very Gothic. Um, and I've, if you've
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: ever read any, um, gothic short stories you know from
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: horrors early days it has a lot of that in
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: common like you know being written at the times where
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: it was there was a lot of insinuation and a
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: lot of more like tell versus tell versus show you
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: know tell don't show like they couldn't those writers back
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: then 19th century or 18th century whatever they couldn't I
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: didn't get away with things that people can today. So
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: a lot of it was just hinted at. And this
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: is kind of the same way, although, of course, yes,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: it's rated R. You do have blood, you do have violence,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: but like you said, it doesn't push as hard as
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: you think it might or that it could.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: It's not even gratuitous when it can be.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's even nudity with Sam Neill's wife. I don't
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: know if it's wife or girlfriend, but in the flashback,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: and it's not erotic. It is the least, like that
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: is not the point of it.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Well, and I would also say, you know, when we
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: talk about the gore in this movie, I mean, there
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: is gore. There's some gore, but there's not that much.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's really kind of a lack of gore.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: You know, it's maybe to speak back to the kind
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: of the, you know, the Friday night crowd. You know,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: this movie is not gory enough. It's not exciting enough.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: It is. For as exciting as this movie is and
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: for as much as you and I like it, I
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: think we could both kind of concede that if you're
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: looking for a kind of big thrills horror movie, this
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: one ain't it in a lot of ways. It's a
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: little bit, I wouldn't say headier, but because there's no
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: monster chasing after people, because there's no visual, visible, external
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: threat chasing people around like a Jason X, it is...
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: I guess, slightly less interesting. Again, I just, you know,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: if you really just think about it for two seconds,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: the movie's really not that exciting in terms of the effects,
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: in terms of the, it's not, I mean, it's not,
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: like you said, it's not doing as much as it could.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Even that scene where Jason Isaacs is like cut open
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: and hung over the examination table. Do we see a close-up?
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: I was about to say that.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Do we even see a close-up? No, we don't. Do
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: we see a lot of what's going on with Jack
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Noseworthy's character? No, not really. We see so little in
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: this movie that it is kind of shocking when you
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: think about the things that were cut from this movie.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: It is most of the gore, if not a bulk
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: majority of the gore. And for movies, Scream is a
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: gorier movie than this film. Scream has a guy getting
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: disemboweled in the first 10 minutes of the movie. Like
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: this movie, the furthest this one goes is Jason Isaac's
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: being gutted, but you barely see it. Like you, you
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: see it from like far away. Yeah.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: And I like that. I don't know if that is again,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: how much that is the studio telling him, no, you
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: got to get this R rating, but it's just, it's just,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: for me, the mind creates the worst vision, you know,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: than what you actually end up seeing. I just think
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: that type of stuff works for me. I was absolutely
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: going to bring up the, is it Sean Pertwee that's
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: hanging and has his torso, you know, open like he's
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: been butchered. Like in any other horror movie, absolutely. You
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: would see a closeup. You would see stuff dripping and dripping.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: And we don't, it's like, we don't, it's just not
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: that kind of movie. It's, it's smarter than that. I mean, it,
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: like it scares, but it doesn't want to rely on
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: the scares. That's just part of the overall, overarching, unsettling,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: disturbo mood it sets. It is more of like an
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: even keel and you get these blips like that. Whereas
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: a horror movie, a standard horror movie, you know, you're
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: just going along and everything is jump to 100 and
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: then jump back down. This is not that. This is
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: very just like linear storytelling. You know, like your heart
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: rate is not going wild. it's more of a natural progression,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: if that makes any sense. Speaking of beeps, the ship's beeps,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: I just have to point this out, are the exact
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: tone of my microwave. And so every time the ship beeped,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: I had to look back to see who was cooking
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: something in the kitchen. Nobody was. It is exactly the
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: tone of my microwave. That's just a fun fact for
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: anyone out there that needs to know such things.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Why is my microwave levitating and speaking to the devil?
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: And you know what? You mentioned The Shining, by the way,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: which I think, you know, in the movie The Shining,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: it gets lost that the film version doesn't seem to
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: be the way the book is. In the book, it's
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: the building that's possessed. I mean, it's the building that
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: is demonic. Right. It is the building that is causing
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: all those things to happen in the film. I don't,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: it's not clear that that's what's going on. And I
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: think Stephen King, you know, over explained in the book
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: and kind of makes it a little bit clear and,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: and you know, whatever Kubrick doing his own thing, he's
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: always going to want to do his own thing, but
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: there are not a lot of these kinds of movies.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: If there are any other haunted spaceship movies, that's not
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: a thing, you know, haunted building, a film about a
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: haunted house is, sure. But when we talk about haunted houses,
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: do we mean the building itself is haunted or do
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: we mean that there are hauntings going on inside of it?
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Cause there's a very different thing here. If we're talking
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: about a building that's haunted, that's doing crazy things, it's
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: still not even poltergeist. Like I'm trying, you know, the
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: shining is the one that I think of when I'm
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: talking about like, it's the living, the building has become
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: a sentient organism.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: And that's the shine like that. The 63 haunting. Is
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: it wise?
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: I believe so. It's like the walls like breathe and
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: the faces on the door sort of move. Okay. It's
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: a lot. I'm guessing you haven't seen it.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: I have not.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: It's very suggestive. Like it's not a, like there's no
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: monster in that. Not either. So I think you'd like
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: it if you'd like this.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Well, and I like the idea of not having it
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: be a monster. It's like they're in the belly of
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: the beast, as it were, like they're inside the monster.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: And I like that because it makes it it makes
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: that level of inescapable kind of tension ratcheted up that
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: much more. Because there's never, I mean, even at the
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: end of this movie, you're not even sure, like, what the, like,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: did they survive? Yes, but are they able to get away?
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: I love the kind of suggestive nature of the ending
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: of the movie, but the ending of the movie's suggestive,
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: kind of ambiguous ending works because the whole ship is possessed.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: It's not a ghost running around and making things happen.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: It's because the entire damn ship is alive now. And
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: that is such a novel, interesting idea to, that has
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: not been remined before. And that I think for me
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: is the thing about this that stands out, you know, not,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: not to speak to like what the twist of the
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: film is. Oh, you know, the, the ship seemingly goes
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: to hell.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: But take that off the table because we've had things
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: go to hell and come back before people go to
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: hell and come back before the idea that this is
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: a living spaceship in space that is actively fucking with
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: the people on it is not Something that's been mined
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: over and over again. And that for me is like
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: the most interesting idea that this film puts forward because
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: it's the thing that there's so much of like, again,
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: so much of what's going on in the film is either.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: not real or perceived by the characters but also at
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: the same time the ship can do anything so the
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: ship being able to do anything and having the power
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: to do anything is so interesting because again there's no
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: ability to escape it at all and that just makes
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: for like a so much more claustrophobic film than if
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: this were set on earth you know just down the street.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think those things are why it has
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: eventually found its audience. It's because people are like, oh,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: this is, yeah, it may look like the alien ship
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: a bit. You know, oh, this area is very sterile looking.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: This area is very grimy looking. But it doesn't play
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: like that. It is kind of, like you say, it's
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: a rigid spectacle. That could be what people are responding to.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I haven't talked to many. I know
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: one other person that really likes this movie. It just
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: hasn't come up. But I'd like to think that the
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: very things we're talking about are why it has not
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: only survived, but actually gotten that first life it never
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: got to have.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Well, and, you know, we also haven't really talked about
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: him specifically, but the reason I wanted to do this
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: movie initially was because of Sam Neill. And, you know, actually,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: you know, I think he is unfortunately the one who
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: gets somewhat short shrift in the movie because his character,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: because like you said, he kind of is the hero
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: and then the villain later at the end of the film.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: it's unfortunate that he is not given more time because
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: there is so much more of his story that we
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: do kind of need to see in terms of understanding
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: why his character was so susceptible to going crazy and
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: killing everyone. And it just happens in the movie and
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: it just happens very kind of quickly, not in terms
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: of like, Oh, it's like the first 10 minutes of
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: the movie. But once we kind of get the notion
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: that it could happen, it then just does happen. And
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I don't, like that because again like it's the entire
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: it's the twist that the entire film hinges on it
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: is the kind of the idea of like why is
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: the film existing it's because it's about it's a film
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: about a guy who made a possessed ship okay so
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: the main character then has to be on the ship
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: with them why isn't he given the most time of
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: anyone it's like well we'll give him more time than
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: most but not all of the time it's like okay
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: but like he's kind of the main character of the
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: movie And yeah, you know, like I said, like the
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: director's cut of the movie, I think needs more of him,
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: less of anything else, because he drives everything forward. And
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, he even shares one of the endings with,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: you know, the characters that survive. And it's like, you know,
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: I I wish there was more Sam Neill. But I
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: want to ask you, like, thoughts on Sam Neill as
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: an actor, thoughts on Sam Neill in this film, like,
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: you know, general thoughts on Sam Neill.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I've always liked him. even before Jurassic Park, which I
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: think is how most people know him or first saw him.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: He's one of those guys that even though like Jurassic
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Park was at the time, the biggest movie ever made,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: like the most financially, like the highest grossing, I think,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: even though, you know, he's the star of that, like
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: he was never quite an A-lister. I mean, it's not,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: And I don't mean to denigrate him in that way.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: He's not a superstar. He's very well-respected and very well-liked
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: and always turned in really good performances, even on a
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: horror movie, like he would a costume drama. But he
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: was not anyone's first choice to... Oh, got a hundred
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: million dollar movie coming out this summer. Let's put Sam Neill.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: That's that's our first go to. He wasn't that guy.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: He was in that weird realm of, you know, between
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: a Lister and character actor, like just that really, really. Expert, well-respected,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: always delivers, but didn't quite have that. that one thing
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: that undefinable it quality or whatever that, you know, bumps
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: you up to the true big leagues. And he worked
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: with a lot of great directors and, you know, he
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: made a lot of, like, it feels like his, his,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: his career is just back and forth between costume dramas,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: you know, period dramas and genre films. Like I know,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you'd like John Carpenter's in the mouth
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: of madness and, oh yeah sam like he's the star
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: of that and that's that's another one of his great
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: roles i think even though i think he's better in
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: that than the movie itself is um but yeah he's
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: one of those guys and i think in part because
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: he was not tom cruise will smith level is that
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: he felt always felt like someone you really knew someone
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: you could know. And so his passing, like hit you
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: harder than you expected. And no one expected, I don't
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: think anyone expected that. He was way too young, um,
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: to die like he did, but like, you know, it hurt.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: And he's just one of those people that for decades,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: he's been in our lives through these movies, um, you know,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: movies that, again, his career is so, is so long,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: like movies that people watch every day and movies that
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: people haven't seen since they came out. Like it's, it's
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: all over the place. The guy did everything, but, um, he, uh,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: he will be missed. Absolutely. But like he turned in
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: so much good work that he'll, he's, he's, he'll live
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: on till people don't watch movies anymore, which is, I
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: hope doesn't happen in my lifetime. Yeah, he's just I
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: think he's great. I think he's very at the same
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: time as respected as he is. I think he's also underrated.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: Well, and I think that there were opportunities in his
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: career where things could have gone differently. I mean, at
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: one point he was. considered for an even screen tested
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: for James Bond. I want to say that was when
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Timothy Dalton was recast as Bond, but there are screen
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: tests with Sam Neill as James Bond and there's photos
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: of it. And it's, it would have been different. I
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: don't know. I mean, I don't know what that would
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: have looked. I don't know how that would have recontextualized
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Sam Neill's career, because I don't know if he's ever
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: in Jurassic Park, if he becomes, you know, James Bond,
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: he probably doesn't have the time for it. And I
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: also don't know if that would have made us think,
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: you know, differently of Sam Neill as an actor. You know,
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: that's it's so funny. I think about Jurassic Park. Right.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: And I think about that movie and the actor from
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: that movie who ends up being the star and the star,
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: quote unquote, of that movie is Jeff Goldblum. Even though
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: it's a ensemble piece with fucking Laura Dern and Sam Neill,
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: neither of which became like any bigger of stars than
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: they were at the time because of it. even though
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: the movie was massively successful. I mean, again, like you said,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: it's one of the most successful films ever made. There's they,
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: they are still making Jurassic park films. There's one that
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: came out as recently as last year for fuck's sake.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: And within the last decade, there have been how many
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Jurassic park films for including one that had Sam Neill
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: in it in a like rather like extended role to
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: that one being the last one before they rebooted it again.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: It is weird, because yeah, when you think about Jurassic Park,
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: you think about how successful the movie is, but you
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: don't think about how successful the actors were afterwards, because
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: it didn't really do anything for their careers. I think
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: it's almost that the movie Jurassic Park was more about
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: CGI dinosaurs, and the CGI dinosaurs were the star of
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: that movie, less the actors. The actors were just kind
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: of there being believable kind of reactors to the dinosaurs.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: But the dinosaurs end up being the star of that movie,
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: and Steven Spielberg, obviously. But yeah, it's weird. I think
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: of Sam Neill and he is a guy who the
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: films that I like of his are this one. Jurassic
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: Park's fine. The first one, I don't think the first
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: one's my favorite. I think I've probably seen the second
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: one way more. And I like the second one a
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: lot because the second one is just a Jeff Goldblum
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: thing more than is anything else. Um, but for me,
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: Sam Neill really, like you already kind of mentioned that
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: he is in my favorite John Carpenter film, which is
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: in the mouth of madness. Like that is without a doubt,
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: my favorite John Carpenter film. I know it's not his
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: best film. I know it is a deeply flawed film
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: like this one is. But I think it's a very interesting, fun,
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: and novel film that was similar to Event Horizon, came
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: out way before it ever should have. It has had
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: a harder time finding its audience than this film has.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: Because it is even more of an, quote, untraditional horror movie, unquote.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: Because it is a meta musing on horror and all
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: kinds of other things. This is at least a straightforward
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: horror movie. Sam Neill was cast in that movie, and
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: that movie is like... about as weird a horror movie
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: as you can get in terms of being made in
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: the 90s, has more in common with Wes Craven's New
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: Nightmare in terms of tone and what it's doing than
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: most horror movies coming out at the time. And to
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: speak to another movie that was deemed as a failure
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: when it came out, Wes Craven's New Nightmare, because it
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: came out and people didn't get it. And again, I
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people, similarly to this film, similarly
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: to In the Mouth of Madness, just discarded it and
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: disregarded it because they didn't get it when it came out.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: And that's unfortunate because like you've said, and like I've echoed,
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: these films have found their audience subsequently. It is just,
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: you do wonder what things could have been and how
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: things could have been different if Event Horizon had been
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: a massive success. I mean, I don't know how it
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: could have, but if it had made Jurassic Park money,
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: which is, I think, what they were wanting, obviously, like
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: anybody making a movie in the 90s would want Jurassic
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Park money. Not getting Jurassic Park money doesn't help you
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: as an actor if you're one of the main actors
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: in a movie. it is seen as a, well, you
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: couldn't pull the audience. You couldn't get the audience to
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: show up. And you're blamed for that as much as
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: the director is. I mean, it affects you and your career.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I don't think Sam Neill ever His career
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: never got to the Brad Pitt, George Clooney. We're casting
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: a Sam Neill type is not a thing. Like you said,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: he would play a certain kind of role. It is
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: crazy to me, though, that he ends up being in
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: the MCU in Thor Ragnarok, which is so funny. I
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: think that only happens because Taika Waititi is the director
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: of that movie, I feel like. But it is very
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: funny that even Sam Neill got some of that Marvel money.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: So good for him. I was disappointed and very saddened
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: when he passed away earlier this year because he is
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: an actor who tried many times to interview and would
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: have loved to talk to because he played a big
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: part in my childhood. I mean, anyone who grew up
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: in the 90s definitely saw a lot of Jurassic Park,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: a lot of Jurassic Park.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: The first thing I ever saw him in was when
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: I was a kid. He's the star of Omen 3,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: The Final Conflict. Actually, I don't think there's a 3
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: in the title. But he plays Damien, grown up, and
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: a politician. Who knew? A devilish politician? What?
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: What a strange and novel concept. The Antichrist as a politician?
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: I like that movie, and I like him in it.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: But one of my favorites of his is Dead Calm,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: where he and... It's him and Nicole Kidman and Billy
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: Zane on a boat. And it's like a Hitchcockian thriller.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen that?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: I have not. Sounds amazing.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: You need to look that up. It's directed by Philip Noyce,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: the guy who made the Patriot Games and the one
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: after that.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, Clear and Present Danger.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Huh. Interesting. Yeah.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: He did The Saint as well. But yeah, it's a
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: great movie. And it's one of those like I think
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: it was Nicole Kidman's first studio, like American studio film. Uh,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: but you know, it's three people on a boat. How,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: how interesting can that be a lot? Like it's a
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: really solid thriller.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Interesting. Yeah, no, I, I, and you know, I was
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: going to say like something that when I think of
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: Sam Neill, you know, the thing I think of, he
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: has a very special place in my heart because he
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: was in, the movie that we covered as the first
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: film ever for the culture cast, which was possession. Talk
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: about a fucking talk about a film to start your
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: show with. I mean, my God in heaven. And he's
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: great in it. I, you know, I don't, he's not
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: the best part of that movie by any stretch of
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: the imagination. I mean, Isabella Johnny is, I think the
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: best part of that movie. Sam Neill's kind of just
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: not playing second fiddle, but he's just kind of there.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: She's obviously so good in that movie. And it's I mean,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: that movie is a lot. I wouldn't advocate anybody going
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: to watch that fucking afternoon. But he I don't know
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: anything that Sam Neill is. And I think he really
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: elevates it. And I would say the same about Lawrence Fishburne,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: you know, someone else we haven't really said a whole
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: lot about. But Lawrence Fishburne, man. He is just– everything
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: he's in is great. My girlfriend and I have been
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: watching Hannibal, which he's in. He's a huge– plays a
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: huge part. He plays the Scott Glenn, Jack Crawford role
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: from the movies– or movie, I guess, singular. I guess
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: Harvey Keitel played that character in Red Dragon, I believe. Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: right lawrence fishburne's great i mean he's so good in
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: that role i know a lot of people know him
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: as morpheus from the matrix i think it's unfortunate because
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: like yeah he's great in the matrix but lawrence fishburne
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: has like the most like calm energy of any actor
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: i can think of like he's always just calm like
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: he's always low energy larry like but not in a
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: bad way not any bad way but he when he
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: gets when he gets elevated as an actor, shit gets
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: serious is what it feels like. And what's crazy is,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: you know, Lawrence Fishburne is an actor who, uh, he
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: was 14 on the set of apocalypse now.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What the fuck? So he was 16 to be
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: able to work. That's, that's crazy. He does not look 14.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: No, not in apocalypse. Now he doesn't look 14. And
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: what's crazy is like, he's been acting since he was
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: a child effectively. And he is still showing up in things.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, he, I believe I'm like, I don't know
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: if you've seen it, but speaking of Scarlett Johansson and
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Jurassic park and new films, Lawrence Fishburne's in a new
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: exorcist movie coming out. Like he's in that film. Like,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: and it's probably going to be better for his involvement
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: because he like every time he's in something, he's really
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: great in whatever it is. And, you know, yeah, he's
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: great in the matrix, but that anybody who knew Lawrence
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Fishburne going into it should have known he was going
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: to be great. Like they cast him in it because he's,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: his energy is just so kind of unique and what
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: he brings to a role is so unique. And, you know,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: not to say, you know, Kathleen, Kathleen Quinlan or Sean
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Pertwee or Jason Isaacs aren't bringing something interesting to the role,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: but definitely some of the actors in this movie are given,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: you know, again, the film as we see it is
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: giving them more to do. You know, Jason Isaac's character, who,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: you know, is the one that gets cut open and
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: laid over the operating table. There's a whole subplot in
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: the movie about why that ends up happening to him.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: It's because he has a fear of being cut open
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: while alive. And then they show this giant scar on
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: his chest before he gets eviscerated. Like, none of that's explained.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: The only way you would know that is if you
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: read the script or you, you know, again, doing what
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: we're doing and did the research ahead of time. There's
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: so much that's left on the table with this movie
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: that is just a shame because it does feel like
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: we're robbed of some great additional kind of stuff for
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: the performances, additional footage of the performances that are already
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: all really solid. There's nobody in this film that is
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: not turning in a great performance. Even people that again,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: like Jack Noseworthy, who I really haven't seen anything else
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: or Richard, uh, you know, the, the actor who plays, uh,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: who plays Cooper. I mean, he's, uh, he's also great. Like,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: and I haven't, you know, it's not that I haven't
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: seen him in a lot of things, but he's not
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: in everything. You know, Richard T. Jones is not in
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: everything I watch all the time. Same with Jolie Richardson,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: but they're all really good in this movie, like individually,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: but also they work together as an ensemble crew. They
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: kind of have that, You know, back and forth camaraderie,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: but also giving each other shit. You know, you mentioned
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: the baby bear line. There's there's an endearing nature to
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: the crew that I think it makes it that much
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: more like disappointing when almost all of them die. It's
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: like the film actually gets me invested in the characters, which,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: as we both know, as well. horror fans, like that
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: is like the hardest thing to do for a horror
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: movies to get you genuinely invested and engaged in the,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: the kind of the people that are going to be
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: offered up as, as, you know, meat bags to the film.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: Because again, like, you know, you watch a movie like this,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: you know, not everybody's going to make it, but you
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: do hope that the film is going to make their
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: deaths feel earned. And I think it does. Okay.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: So Richard T. Jones, right? That's his name. Yep. I,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know how this happened, but I had no
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: memory of him being in this movie.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: Genuinely. And this is the fourth time I've seen it. So,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: and he's one of the survivors, like.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: Unnecessarily, even I would say like, he's, he's the one
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: character where I'm like, did he need to survive? Did not,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean, again, I guess, yes, he did.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: Cause it's him and Jolie Richardson and Jack Noseworthy. That's it.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I actually think that Lawrence Fishburne's character dying
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: feels like a studio note at the end. Like it doesn't,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: Richard T. Jones should have died and Lawrence Fishburne should
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: have survived like that. It makes no, it's very odd
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: to me. He's one of those, like, he's like Joey
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: Pantoliano in the third season of the spring. I was like,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: why did he make it to the fourth season? Like,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: why didn't he just get murdered in the third season?
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: Like what is gold? Like, why like explain to me
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: it's like okay we're gonna do something else with it
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: but like richard d jones is just one of those
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: characters this movie was like that's the guy who should
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: have died like.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah so he's the it's not his fault but this
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: is the one performance that i don't think works as
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: well because he he has that i call it the
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: will smith part it's like the wisecracking sassy black guy
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: you know It's what.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: Jason Momoa does now, professionally, more or less. Yeah.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: But it's like, you know, he's always like, oh, shit, motherfucker.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: You know, it's basically everything Lawrence Fishburne has been fighting
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: his career not to do, you know, not to be
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: pegged into that token minority role. And unfortunately, this movie
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: does saddle Richard T. Jones with that. But that's the
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: one performance that I don't. I don't think works. And
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: maybe that's why I do not remember him being in it,
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: which or maybe it's just me getting old one or
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: the other.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: Well, and I would I would say, you know, if
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: I if there is a performance in the movie that
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: is the weakest, I do think it is his Cause
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: like you said, it is just a lot of kind
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: of Jason Momoa ask, you know, yeah, man, or dude, bro. Yeah. Like, Whoa.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Like it's a lot of reaction. It would be in wrestling,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: what we call color commentary. It doesn't add a lot.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: It's meant to be like, I don't know, like, you know,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: in another film would be like, he's the audience, his
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: eyes and ears through the film. Like he's the audience surrogate.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: Like there's, That's not the case. I don't see it
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: that way. Like I just, he is the one character
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: in the film that I don't understand why he even
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: survives because it's just, it seems, it seems like if
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: you're going to have a male character survive, just have
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: it be Lawrence Fishburne, you know, like I don't, I
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: don't know. Like that's the, you know, the ending of
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: this movie, I think, you know, and to speak to
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: the part of the film, you know, the performance of
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: the film that didn't work for you, I would say
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: the part of the film that maybe doesn't work for me,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: and this me personally, like this is just kind of
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: my like quibble with the movie as the movie. I
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: think the film gets less interesting as it goes on.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: And I think that kind of, once we get to
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: the part where Sam Neill goes crazy, it picks back
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: up and that's like the third act. But the second
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: act of the movie, I think for me, it's a
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: lot of like missed opportunity after missed opportunity after missed opportunity.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: Because again, like it is, there's a lot of Richard T.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: Jones in there whose role is kind of just very
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: generic and, It feels like a lot of the other
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: stuff is just truncated, like the Sam Neill stuff's very truncated.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: But there were parts of this movie in the third
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: act where I'm just like, I don't think they knew
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: what to do with the third act of this movie.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: And based on the research, it had two endings. They
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: didn't know what to do with it. And it's unfortunate
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: because the direction they went, I don't think was the
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: right one. I think it should have been Lawrence Fishburne
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: survives at the end. Richard T. Jones dies. You have
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: two people survive with Jack Noseworthy in the tube at
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: the end. There you go. Like, Richard T Jones's character
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: does not validate his existence enough in the film. And
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: we're not even like given enough time with him to
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: understand why he would survive. He just, if he's going
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: to survive, why did anybody else die? Is the real
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: question that was given so much time and effort. Like,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: and he's the one who's just like, well, he's just
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: one of the survivors. Like, but why? Like to what,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: to what reason even?
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: I think it's because he's the, the closest thing we
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: have to comic relief is, In this movie, but the
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: movie doesn't need any comic relief. It's not that type
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: of movie. And that's why his. They're not catchphrases, but
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? His lingo. That's that's what's
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: why it just sticks out like a sore thumb to me.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: That's the 1997 of it all is really.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's like I said, it's the Will Smith part.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's like a, it's like independence day, but not
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, no, I, I, I agree. Yeah. You know,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: it's yeah. I, I, God, man, to speak to independence day,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: you know, and Jeff Goldblum and Sam Neill of it all,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: like independence day is a film that I don't, you
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: go back and rewatch it. Like the Will Smith stuff
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: doesn't work very well anymore. Like it's just, it falls
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: very flat because like, Hey, we all know that Will
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Smith is kind of like a fucking fruit loop of
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: the highest order. So like, he's not nearly as endearing
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: as he used to be, which I think was part
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: of it. Like Will Smith used to be really endearing.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: And now it's just like, he's just this out of touch,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: like rich weirdo who's, who's married to someone who, uh,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: my girlfriend made this joke in the car who was
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: married to someone who Tupac killed himself to get away from.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: He's in hiding still to get away from Jada Pinkett Smith.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: And wouldn't you be too? Good God. Snake woman of
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: the highest order. Like Jada Pinkett Smith makes me uncomfortable
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: and very few people make me uncomfortable, but she just
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: has this really shitty energy as a person. I feel like,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: and like Will Smith is involvement with her. I think
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: it's like further diminishes him as an actor. Cause like
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: the shit and bullshit that she brings to things, he's
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: gotten himself involved with like validated and rubber stamped and
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: there was that like post independence day, Will Smith, like
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: every black character in a movie has to be the
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: funny upbeat one. It's like, why? Like that's, so now
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: we're typecasting black actors based on one black actor's success.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: Like that's just, that's, that's not great. That's not good
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: in and of its own, right? Like what the hell? Like,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: come on. Like Lawrence, like you said, Lawrence Fishburne as
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: an actor has been fighting against that sentiment his entire career. Like,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: you know, I want to be taken seriously as a
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: black actor, not just being, you know, being given the
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: comic relief lines, which again, I mean, I'm not saying
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: good or bad. Like someone has to do that. And
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: if they're going to keep doing it, someone should be
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: employed and making money.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: Obviously. But also we shouldn't just be typecasting actors based
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: on the success of another actor who happens to share
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: the same skin color. That's, you know, very capitalistic. That's
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: for sure.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: Get Jada Pinkett Smith's name out of your mouth.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: Good God in heaven. The last person I want anywhere
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: near me is Jada Pinkett Smith. Good God. Like I said,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Tupac's in hiding because of Jada Pinkett. She still pines
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: for that man. You still hear her talking about it. Tupac,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: it's been 40 years since you died. Come back to me, Tupac.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: He's like, I'm staying gone. I'm in Barbados for a
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: fucking reason. Dude, he has CDs coming out every year, man.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: He has new music coming out next week, I bet.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: The most prolific, posthumous artist of all time, Tupac Shakur.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Thank God.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: How did we get on Tupac?
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Because of black actors in the 90s. And you know,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: Lawrence Fishburne, I think, is that interesting counterpoint because if
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: you think of his, the famous role of Neo, or
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: opposite Neo in The Matrix as Morpheus, that role is
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: so understated comparatively to anything Will Smith has.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: Like ever done, you know, Jillian percent.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Will Smith, I think is kind of known as
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: the kind of overacting actor and Lawrence Fishburne. I think the, the, the,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: the worst thing you can say to Lawrence Fishburne is
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: sometimes he doesn't make the best choices for projects, but
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: he always has the kind of same even keel energy
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: that I don't know. I just, I love Lawrence Fishburne
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: as an actor. I don't think, enough good things are
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: said about Lawrence Fishburne as an actor. Like, I think
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: he just kind of has been, you know, he was,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: he was Morpheus in the matrix. Like that's it. Like, man,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: he's done. He's so good. I love everything.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: He's like Sam Neill in that regard. He's never been
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: a list, but he's worked forever, worked forever and is
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: well-respected and always does great work.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: Like never heard anybody say a bad word about Sam
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Neill or Lawrence Fishburne, like ever. You know, to be fair,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: I haven't heard a lot of bad things said about
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: anybody in this movie. But in terms of people that
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: have been working for a long time that are like the,
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: you know, the forefront poster front facing of this movie,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: Sam Neill and Lawrence Fishburne. Yeah, they're two actors who. Reliable,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: I would say, you know, reliable, always, always turning in
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: a really fantastic performance. But yeah, not. Yeah, they never
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: really became. House, I guess, I don't know. Like, I
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: guess Lawrence Fishburne is the closer of the two.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: Morpheus.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Household name.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: Like people recognizing just the name. Yeah, probably. Probably. It's actually,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: it's probably pretty even. That's my guess. I mean, again, yeah.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: Like the visibility of the two, like.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: But I do, I do like that those two guys
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: are paired together in a movie that ends with the
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: track funky shit. By the prodigy.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: By the prodigy of all things.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That always struck me as funny.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: The way the movie quietly ends and then it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: calm down.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: I thought that was funny the first time. Like, what? Like, huh?
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: You know, but now I look forward to it. Like,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: I love that it does that.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: It definitely reminds you that this film came from 1997. Yeah.
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: And I always wanted, like, a soundtrack. And I know
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: there is a soundtrack with, uh, the score, Michael came
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: in score, but I always wanted like the music inspired
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: by event horizon that would have funky shit and the
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: orbital stuff and other electronic acts of that time. Like
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: that's what I really wanted from this movie. It's forgot
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: because I'm, I'm like a sucker for those types of, uh,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: those CDs at the time, those soundtrack CDs. I love them.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: Those things are gone. Speaking of things that are gone,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: no longer existing.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: Well, they exist in a box in my house. That's fair.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: Other than that, you're correct.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: Speaking of things that don't really exist anywhere else, you know,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: to speak to the theming and the ideas of this movie, this,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: I guess there's one other thing that this film kind
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: of inspired directly is a video game called dead space,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: which it's like the thing in space, which I'm not
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: going to speak to the thing, but, It's more The
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: Thing inspired because it's a marker that makes people mutate
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: and transform, less a ship. But a lot of the
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: imagery and the design of the spaceships in that game
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: are inspired by Event Horizon and the way that this
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: kind of gothic imagery and kind of the weird... design
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: the specific design choices are very inspired by event horizon
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: and that's you know that's the thing it's like even
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: when the things that were inspired by this were coming
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: out they weren't it's something they weren't mentioning event horizon
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: but it's like this wasn't well enough known that it
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: being inspired by event horizon is moving the needle for
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: anyone and so i guess like in that regard, this
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: movie is still kind of... I don't know. One of
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: the things I wanted to ask you as someone who
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: talks about a lot of cult film and talks about
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: cult film making, what is the success of a film
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: measured by? Is it more important to be... long run successful,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: successful upfront. Does a cult film have to be successful
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: in the longterm to be considered a cult film? Like I,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: this is a cult film now, I guess maybe this
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: is a fucking paramount film for God's sakes. Like it
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: was a big budget studio movie.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: But when it failed critically and commercially, is that.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: How it becomes a cult film? Then if it's a
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: studio film, it has to fail. No.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: Okay. I, I don't think there's a cut and dry answer.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: I think it just depends on who you ask. I
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: do think just the fact that not every movie that
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: bombs becomes popular. It doesn't happen. There were movies that
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: didn't do great upon initial release and then they did
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: so well in video that they got sequels in the
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: theaters and then those sequels did incredible business, but this just, man,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: this just took a long time to catch on. Um,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: but yeah, not, not, not like there is no, just
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: if your film did this, but didn't do this and
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: did this, then that equals cult film. I don't think
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: it's like that, but it, you know, it has a
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: fervent following. It's people that kind of like you that
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: keep talking it up and bringing it back and keeping
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: it alive and spreading the word. Like I think that
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: that's a big part of it. Just like you're not
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: getting paid to shill it, but you're doing it anyway.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: Like you want more people to see it.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: Well, like anything else, the more people that see it
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: is the hope that it moves the conversation forward so
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: that it inspires more things or another thing comes out.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not one of those people that's like, Oh, well,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: you know, I, I, the sequel is going to negate
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: the first one. Like I still have the first one
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: to watch. You know, I know that there's this whole
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: thing of like, Oh my God, you know, George Lucas
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: raped my childhood with the fourth Indiana Jones. Like I've
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: never felt that way because the first three movies still exist.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: They weren't like put into a vault and we can't
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: watch them because the fourth movie came out. I'd love
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: to live in a universe where anytime a new movie
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: comes out, that's a sequel to the original movie. The
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: original movie is then forever banished from existence and we
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: can't watch it anymore. Like I, Or like a film
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: being remade, like the original goes away. Like anytime a
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: remake exists, the original film is then taken and thrown
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: in the trash. Like that's not what happens.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: It's not that- That's going to happen to your possession
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: because that's being remade.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: I know, which is fucking insane that that movie's being remade.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: It's like someone making Irreplaceable. Like, let's remake Irreplaceable. Like, yeah, that's, yeah, right.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: Like it's- it's, that's always my issue with any kind
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: of conversation about like cult films or, you know, sequels
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: to cult films or, or, you know, films being successful
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: in the long run. Like films don't, don't exist in
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: a vacuum and they don't disappear once a sequel or
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: prequel or remake is made. The original film still exists.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: And you know what? I think the only time a
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: film diminishes another film is when it's, A sequel that
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: recontextualizes the first film completely and is made by the
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: person who made the first one. Otherwise, someone else is
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: probably doing something with someone else's thing and they want
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: to do their own thing with it. And everybody has
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: their own ideas on things. And I don't think Aliens
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: is reductive of Alien. even though there's this idea that,
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: you know, like aliens is better than alien and I
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: can't like one without the other. It's like, no, no.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: Like the aliens is just someone else's idea of what
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: alien could be. And they don't, I mean like, yes,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: they inspire one another or they're inspired by our direct sequels,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: but one can exist without the, one can exist without
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: the other, but one can't exist without the other. And
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think that again, if we want to have
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: this conversation about like, well, it ruined this and I
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: know we ruined my child. They're like, no, like there's
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: none of that. Like this is, If someone were to
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: make an Event Horizon anything, I would be on board
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: because that means more Event Horizon is existing in the world.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: And yes, the comic book is kind of too explainy
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: for me. I don't need everything explained. It also does
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: open up some interesting doors and ask some interesting questions
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: that maybe someone else had that I didn't. And great.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: That's a good thing. Like, you know, I'm glad someone
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: else resonated with Event Horizon in a way that was
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: similar to the way I did, but not identical. And
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: that's what I think is important as someone who watches
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: a lot of film is everyone else who watches any
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: film other than me is going to have a different
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: feeling about it other than I did. Like not maybe
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: not specifically the same one that I had might be
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: had by someone else, but specifically not going to be
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: the case. We might have same ideas on things, even
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: you and I. But how you would do a sequel
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: to this and how I would do a sequel or
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: a prequel or a remake would be different. And that's...
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know. If you want to watch the same
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: thing over and over again, the original movie exists. I
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: don't know why you need to have somebody make the
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: same thing over again. That's the complaint I have for
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: any sequel. If a sequel at least does something different
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: than the first movie, I consider that more of a
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: success than just, oh, we're going to retread old ground
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: a la Ghostbusters 2. At least... The Event Horizon comic
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: book does something different. Does it over-explain things that were
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: under-explained in the first movie? Sure. But clearly someone else
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: wanted those things explained, and so that was part of
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 2: what they wanted to do with whatever Event Horizon thing
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: they were doing. Fine. If it were me, I wouldn't
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: be doing that, but they didn't give me the comic book.
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: So.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: It is what it is. My takeaway from this movie
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: is like yours. I'm glad it found its audience. I
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: don't need anything else. If there is more to it
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: that ends up coming out in the next 20 years
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: of this, cool. But I don't need anything else. This movie,
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: like you said, stands alone as its own thing. And
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: it even has kind of a typical horror movie horseshit ending.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: And I don't resent the movie for the ending. I
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: just think like, you kind of gilded the lily right
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 2: at the end.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: It's a little gilding of the lily moment. I'm like,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: Oh God damn you. Like, I don't know. It's not, it's,
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: you know, a movie that just came out recently that I've,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: I don't think enough people saw it. Cause I think
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: it's one of those pandemic movies, but it also kind
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: of does the same thing with the ending is the boogeyman,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: that adaptation of that Stephen King short story. it does
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: that same thing like this movie does where it's like, well,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: it's open ended, but that does it smarter where it's like,
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: it could be open ended. Maybe, maybe not, but we
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: still get a satisfying ending to the movie. I think
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: maybe the part of this movie that I'm least satisfied
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: by is the ending. Cause the ending is just kind
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: of like, they couldn't pick which direction to go. So
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: they went both directions and it's like, nah, that's lazy.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: It's like a double fake out. Right?
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Real quick, speaking to finding its audience, I
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: just want to go through some of the other movies
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: that were on the top 10 the week this was released.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: Because how many people do you hear talking about these
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: movies today?
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so excited. I'm so excited to hear what
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: these are. You did the thing that I was going
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: to do, but I'm so excited. Okay.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: Well, one of these we've kind of hinted at, which
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: was Men in Black. Um, which is not like people
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: don't talk about it as much as they used to.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: Like it used to be like this vaulted. Oh yeah.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: There's a ride at universal studios like that. If there's
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: a ride at universal studios for your movie, I think
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: that has moved the needle significantly. Yeah. All right.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: So here we go. Contact. That's the Robert Zemeckis movie.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not saying even.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: If these are good or bad, that's a Jodie Foster
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: alien film. Yeah.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: OK, it's not like that's not the point. It's like,
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: do you hear people talking about this the way that
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: people talk about Event Horizon now? Picture Perfect, which is
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: a romcom with Jennifer Aniston, like I had totally forgotten about.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: You have George of the Jungle, the Brendan Fraser vehicle.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: I love that movie. Spawn. Oh, my God. That's a
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: film that I reference a lot when talking about Jurassic
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: Park and bad CGI, bad CGI movies.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: Conspiracy theory with Mel Gibson and Julia Roberts.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: Never seen it. Yeah.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: You're not missing anything. Air Force One, Harrison Ford.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: Get off my plane.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: That's what you, that's what people remember. That's what people,
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: when people talk about that movie, they talk about that line.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: And then last is Copland.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: Stallone.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Stallone's big dramatic bid for an Oscar. But like,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean, Men in Black.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: I would say Men in Black. That's it.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: That's still IP. That's kind of alive. I mean, it's
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: in a down. You know, it's on a down and
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: out period right now, but still it will be rebooted
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: before long, I'm sure. But like those movies aren't really
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: discussed today like this movie is. People like you. This
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: movie keeps popping up online articles about it. Reviews like, oh,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: I just saw this movie. Watch this this October if
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: you want to see something you've never seen before this Halloween.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of those articles lately this month so
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: it's just indicative of the word spreading I think.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: I guarantee you we're going to see an event horizon
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: something else I just you're right yeah and and like
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: you mentioned like I I would air on the side
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: of a show like a Noah Hawley style alien earth
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: type thing. And you know what? I think, you know,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: I've always been of the mindset. If you're going to
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: do reboots or remakes or sequels to anything, it shouldn't like, yeah,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: I get it. Everyone's going to do a fucking sequel
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: to the most successful goddamn thing. And then they complain
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: when it doesn't make as much money as the thing before.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: Why not set yourself up for success and make a
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: sequel to something that's not super successful or like middle
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: of the road successful and make it even better than
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: the thing before, and then be surprised when you make
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 2: more money than the other thing did, and then you
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: can really pat yourself on the back. That's hard, I
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: get it, because you're needing to hire people to write
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: something better and do a better job than someone else
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: did and all these things, but is that less... taxing
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: than trying to be as successful as something else was
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: and not meet that level that it made it. Oftentimes
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: a level of success that is hard to replicate. I'll, uh,
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: let's just see obsession backrooms, uh, the Blair witch project.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: Like I don't think back the next backrooms movie is
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: going to be as successful as last one. I don't
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: think obsession, whatever Curry Barker does next is going to
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 2: be as successful as his last thing. It just isn't
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: going to be. And then people are going to go, well,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: you know, it fell off and it's like, well, you know,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: the first thing was so successful, no one even fucking
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: could have anticipated the success of it. And so I
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: am of the mindset, you should always be adapting things
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: where the ceiling is higher for it than the, than
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: where it got to before. Not because, not because I
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: want to adapt things that weren't successful, but because a
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 2: lot of things are really close to being successful. And
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: there's just a couple of things that need to be
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: changed or taken into consideration in to fix or help it,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: like the third act of this movie, or some of
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: the other things in this movie. I don't want to
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: go and try to make another movie in a series
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: of films that were imminently very successful out of the gate.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: I don't want to set myself up for failure to
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 2: be compared to other things. negatively because I never met
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: them at that high level of success. Like look at
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: any TV show ever that had a first season that
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: was good. None of the other seasons are ever considered
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: as good as that one. Like, Oh, it fell off.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: You know, it came, you know, rarely is it, you know, well,
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: the first season was bad. And the second, like most
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: of the time it's the first season was not great.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: Everything else that came afterwards is, higher success i can
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: think of several shows where it's like the first season
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: great everything else is terrible like there are several shows
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: like that but it's not it's just i don't know
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: like i've never understood the way things are done in
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: the industry because my mind is not immediately jumping to
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: because something else was successful this will be successful that's
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: like saying it rained yesterday so it must rain tomorrow
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: like nah I don't know.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: Because accountants, that's why Chris.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: I know the business side of show business. Yeah. People
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: that make decisions based on numbers as opposed to creative
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: ideas and, you know, putting their finger up to their
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: neck and judging the pulse of things, you know, like
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: we didn't need 8 million Marvel films in the last
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: 10 years. Like, and they realized that eventually, eventually it
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: caught up to them. Like, It catches up to you eventually.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: Even the most stalwart of franchises have fallen off. Star Wars,
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: for the longest time, was just a fucking money factory,
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: just printing money. Same with the MCU, really. MCU was
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 2: printing money. And it's not anymore. It's not. Not the
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: way that it used to. And yeah, I've always been
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: of the mindset, redo something that was... Two thirds, three
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: quarters of the way there. Don't do something that was
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: like that. It's just I don't know. You just you're
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: setting yourself up for failure in a way that you
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: almost shouldn't be surprised. You know, like when when David
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: Gordon Green remade Halloween, everybody was like, well, as long
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 2: as it's better than those other Halloween movies, we're good.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: no one expected it to make like 300 million fucking dollars.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: Like that's, I don't know. That's, that's the thing. It's like,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: you know, I look at sometimes the way the industry
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: does thing and I'm like, okay, like they get it.
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: Then other times I'm like, you guys just missed the
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: plot completely. So yeah.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: All it takes is more talking about this movie, more
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: people seeing it. Uh, the more people that ran it,
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: like it, yeah, you make that, you will make that
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: a reality.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, just get Event Horizon reappraised. Well,
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: like I said, a comic book came out. They talked
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: about a TV series, so I'm sure we'll get something.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: It's an IP. It's not an unknown quantity, and it's
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: had several things done with it now, so it's even
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: more of a known IP than it was before. Anything else, Rod,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: we want to talk about? Have we exhausted our horizon
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: of events?
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: Man, I am funky shitted out. I have no more.
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: You got to do the thing that the guy does
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: in that music video, the prodigy. I really want to
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: cut my hair like that with a little.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: So that would be the only thing that might make that,
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: that might sour me on that music cue is if
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: they played the music video on the side. Or had
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: the cast come out and do dance moves to it.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, can you imagine?
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: Like how some comedies do.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: At the, at the end, they all just take a
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: bow together. Are you saying that you don't want a
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 2: music video like the one for Hellraiser three, where Lemmy
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: is playing for help for, for, for fucking the, for
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: pinhead and the Cenobites. You don't want that.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: I don't. And I didn't get that. And that's good.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: More power to this movie and Paul WS Anderson.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you, you know, people hate Hellraiser three. I
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: just don't get the hate. I just don't understand. It
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: could be so much worse. Have you seen four through
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: nine or however many of those goddamn movies?
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: I have. I have. Yeah.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Again, speaking of hell in space, you know,
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: like fuck the fucking Hellraiser movie in space is pretty
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: goddamn bad in and of itself.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: And fun fact, I saw that in the same theater
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: at the same AMC that I saw this. And there
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: were three other people in that screening, whereas this had zero.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: That's wild.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: That film being what? What is that? That's Hellraiser 4, yeah? Yeah.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: Hellraiser....
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: Bloodlines bloodlines yeah which is the which by the way
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: i think most people stop at two with that franchise
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: i stop at three which is one film more than
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: most people but i don't think anybody goes further than
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: three so you know even this film does hell in
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: space better than the film that was doing the kind
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: of hell on earth thing first so yeah well rod
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: when you're not here joining me talking about event horizon
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: where can people find you and the things that.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: You work on sir You said it up front. Flickattack.com
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: is my home on the web. And they can also,
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: there or Amazon, buy the book, Flick Attack Movie Arsenal,
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: book one. Book two coming soon. I'll keep saying that.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: For the end of the year, right, Ron?
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: That's my goal, man. That's my goal. But life keeps
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: throwing me curveballs, so I'm still working.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: Too busy watching Event Horizon.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: Rewatching.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: That's right. And giving endearing speeches at weddings. So I've
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: been told.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: That too. Thanks.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: You're welcome. As for me, you can't find me on
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: the internet giving speeches at weddings. You can find me
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: on the internet at weirdingwaymedia.com where all the audio fit
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: to listen for you can be found. This show, The
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 2: Projection Booth, Midnight Viewing, all the shows that I work
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: on or that I don't work on can be found there.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: So head on over there. Rod and I are doing
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: a show in the coming year all about the SNL movies.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: There are less than you think, but more than you
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: might remember. And you know what? Rod and I are
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: being pretty strict and not doing a forever show. We
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: might be talking about movies forever, but we're not going
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 2: to be doing a forever SNL show. We're limiting ourselves
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: to what, 10? So that'll be coming after the first
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: of the year. So definitely give that a listen if
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: you're a fan of SNL. If not, just like, rate,
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: and review this show wherever you get it, which should
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: be iTunes and Spotify. If it's not, iTunes and Spotify,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: that's where you should go. Patreon.com slash CultureCast, Patreon.com slash
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: Projection Booth. And you know what? Patreon.com slash Richard Haddam
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: is where you can go to kick a couple dollars
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: my way, Mike's way, or Richard's way. And yeah, if
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: you want bonus content, that's where you'll find it. Rod,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining me. It was fun.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: I'm glad we got to talk about a horror movie
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: that has Sam Neill in it, which is like, there's
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: two options. So I'm glad that this was one of them.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you too, baby bear.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 2: Thanks, mama bear. And we'll talk to you on the
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: next episode.