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Stormy's Steamy Testimony · Pod Save America

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. And my
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Speaker 1: co-host today is one of the smartest and most successful
0:26
Speaker 1: Democratic strategists around. She's currently working with Ruben Gallego on
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Speaker 1: the Arizona Senate race, but we've known each other for
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Speaker 1: a long time since she was working for Senator Harry
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Speaker 1: Reid and I was working for then-Senator Barack Obama.
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Speaker 2: Rebecca Katz, welcome to Pod Save America.
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Speaker 3: Thank you. So good to be here. God, remember those
0:43
Speaker 3: days of hope? It was nice.
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Speaker 1: Also, that was a long time ago. I was like,
0:48
Speaker 1: have I known Rebecca for 20 years now? I know.
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Speaker 3: I know.
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Speaker 2: We've been doing this for a while.
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Speaker 3: How can we be 25 when we've been... Yeah, exactly.
0:57
Speaker 2: Okay, lots of news today.
0:58
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Biden's trip to Wisconsin and
1:00
Speaker 1: the split-screen contrast his campaign is hoping for. And we'll
1:04
Speaker 1: dig into the Senate races in two states near and
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Speaker 1: dear to Rebecca's heart, Arizona and Pennsylvania. But first, we
1:11
Speaker 1: got to talk about the big developments with the Republican
1:14
Speaker 1: Party's criminal defendant nominee for president.
1:17
Speaker 4: So.
1:18
Speaker 1: Trump's having some luck with three of his four trials.
1:21
Speaker 1: The January 6th trial is on hold until the Supreme
1:23
Speaker 1: Court rules on his immunity appeal. Federal Judge Trump appointed
1:28
Speaker 1: in Florida, Eileen Cannon, just postponed the classified documents trial indefinitely.
1:33
Speaker 1: And today, a Georgia appellate court agreed to take up
1:36
Speaker 1: Trump's attempt to disqualify DA Fannie Willis. So that trial
1:40
Speaker 1: could also get pushed until after the election. Looks like
1:43
Speaker 1: it probably will. But Rebecca, we still have Manhattan. And boy,
1:48
Speaker 1: did we get some excitement in that trial on Tuesday,
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Speaker 1: if what excites you are details about Donald Trump's sex life.
1:56
Speaker 1: Stormy Daniels testified for the prosecution for about five hours,
2:01
Speaker 1: during which time she told the story of her sexual
2:03
Speaker 1: encounter with Trump at a 2006 golf event in Lake Tahoe.
2:07
Speaker 1: She accepted what she thought was a dinner invite. He
2:09
Speaker 1: opened the door in his pajamas. At one point, Trump
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Speaker 1: really set the mood by telling Daniels she reminded him
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Speaker 1: of his daughter, Ivanka.
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Speaker 3: I mean, we need some time on Freud's couch for
2:22
Speaker 3: that one. I don't know what's going on there.
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Speaker 2: That is rough. That is rough.
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Speaker 1: And when Stormy asked about his wife, Melania, Trump said
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Speaker 1: not to worry. They sleep in separate bedrooms. Then Daniel
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Speaker 1: said that when she got back from using the bathroom,
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Speaker 1: Trump had taken his clothes off, was basically blocking the exit,
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Speaker 1: and initiated what she testified was brief unprotected sex that
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Speaker 1: she said was consensual, but still left her shaking and
2:45
Speaker 1: desperate to leave.
2:46
Speaker 2: Understandable.
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Speaker 1: As you can imagine, Trump was not thrilled to sit
2:50
Speaker 1: through this testimony. At one point, he was rebuked by
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Speaker 1: the judge for angrily whispering and mouthing the word bullshit.
2:56
Speaker 1: But the judge also had to rein in Stormy Daniels
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Speaker 1: for giving a little too much detail about Trump's sex life,
3:02
Speaker 1: for which we're all grateful that the judge rebuked her
3:04
Speaker 1: for that. Those objections sustained by me as well.
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Speaker 3: We could have gone our whole lives without knowing what
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Speaker 3: a sexual encounter with Donald Trump is like. And yet
3:13
Speaker 3: here we are. And it's just, you know.
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Speaker 2: We've avoided it for so long. And here it is.
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Speaker 1: So all this, the judge rebuking Stormy and telling the
3:24
Speaker 1: prosecution to sort of keep it to the issues they're discussing.
3:29
Speaker 1: This caused Trump's lawyers to ask for a mistrial. They
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Speaker 1: argued the testimony was extraordinarily prejudicial and had nothing to
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Speaker 1: do with the records falsification at issue in the case.
3:39
Speaker 1: Prosecution argued that the testimony helps prove Trump's motive for
3:42
Speaker 1: trying to bury the story before the election. Mershon agreed
3:45
Speaker 1: and refused to declare a mistrial.
3:47
Speaker 2: So that's a lot.
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Speaker 1: Rebecca, what are your thoughts on Stormy's testimony and just
3:53
Speaker 1: the Manhattan trial so far?
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Speaker 2: You're in New York. Have you been camped out in
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Speaker 2: front of the courthouse every morning?
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Speaker 3: I've been trying to get as far away from it
4:00
Speaker 3: as possible. There's a few things going on here. I
4:04
Speaker 3: thought Yesterday seemed like a day that was designed to
4:07
Speaker 3: try and embarrass Trump a little bit, to set it
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Speaker 3: all up. And the thing about it is you can't
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Speaker 3: embarrass Donald Trump. We know far too much about him.
4:17
Speaker 3: He's put far too much out there. And nothing sticks
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Speaker 3: to him. Nothing embarrasses him. But the bigger point is
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Speaker 3: we're not trying to embarrass him. We're trying to defeat him.
4:26
Speaker 3: And he gets to sit there. And it's like this
4:28
Speaker 3: clown show a little bit. And That's good for him.
4:32
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like every day that he
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Speaker 3: is not taken seriously is good for him, right? Like
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Speaker 3: there's all these real trials out there that are about,
4:41
Speaker 3: you know, January 6th and democracy and election denial and
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Speaker 3: all these things that are horrendous. And most people just
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Speaker 3: look at this as the hush money trial and they don't,
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Speaker 3: they're like, how does this affect me? And so he
4:56
Speaker 3: can sit there and just like say what he wants
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Speaker 3: to say and then he you know, go out to
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Speaker 3: the reporters and literally make up whatever. And that is
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Speaker 3: better than if he, for him, than if he is
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Speaker 3: on the campaign trail actually talking about what he would
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Speaker 3: do in a second Trump term, which is absolutely terrifying.
5:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, I guess, I mean, at first I
5:19
Speaker 1: sort of viewed the hush money trial in the same way,
5:21
Speaker 1: probably because it was called the hush money trial. I
5:24
Speaker 1: do wonder, like, you know, and look, this all is
5:29
Speaker 1: predicated on you being someone who pays close attention to
5:33
Speaker 1: the trial, which most voters, as we know, are not.
5:36
Speaker 1: But if the story is, we all remember when the
5:40
Speaker 1: Access Hollywood tape came out, and if the story is
5:43
Speaker 1: like they were so worried, which Hope Hicks testified, once
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Speaker 1: the Access Hollywood tape came out, that he was going
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Speaker 1: to lose, that he desperately tried to bury this story
5:53
Speaker 1: and committed campaign finance violations while doing so, You know,
5:58
Speaker 1: when you think about like Hillary Clinton probably lost because
6:01
Speaker 1: James Comey.
6:02
Speaker 2: Popped up in the last week, too. So like any
6:04
Speaker 2: of these things could have made a difference.
6:05
Speaker 1: So it's a little more weighty for me than I
6:09
Speaker 1: think it was originally. But I totally take your point
6:12
Speaker 1: that most voters are probably like, what?
6:13
Speaker 2: Sex? Trump? Whatever.
6:15
Speaker 3: You and I, we worked on campaigns and we worked
6:17
Speaker 3: in government. And one of the first things you do
6:20
Speaker 3: when you sign up for either is you sit down
6:22
Speaker 3: with the lawyers and And they tell you all the
6:24
Speaker 3: things you're not allowed to do and they scare you shitless, right?
6:28
Speaker 4: Yeah.
6:28
Speaker 3: And what we're learning from Trump is like he was
6:31
Speaker 3: never scared. The people around him never took any of
6:33
Speaker 3: this seriously. So my point is that there are a
6:37
Speaker 3: million crimes against him. This guy is a crook. And
6:40
Speaker 3: of that, this is the lowest level of crime. But
6:43
Speaker 3: basically the issue here is everyone believes it and they
6:46
Speaker 3: don't care, right? And that to me is a little
6:50
Speaker 3: bit worrisome. I think they'll care if he's in prison,
6:53
Speaker 3: but I don't think they care about if he's cheating
6:56
Speaker 3: on his wife, which is how it's coming across. It's
6:58
Speaker 3: the shorthand of it.
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Speaker 1: So if you're on the Biden campaign, would you rather
7:03
Speaker 1: have voters see Donald Trump ranting and raving about his
7:07
Speaker 1: criminal trial or out there talking about the border or
7:11
Speaker 1: inflation or Gaza?
7:14
Speaker 3: If I were them, I would want him out on
7:17
Speaker 3: the trail talking about what he's going to do with
7:19
Speaker 3: his Justice Department. in a Trump term and how he
7:22
Speaker 3: will have no regard for the law and that he
7:24
Speaker 3: basically wants to be a dictator. I would have him
7:27
Speaker 3: talking about all the things he wants to do as
7:31
Speaker 3: president because I think that is helpful for them.
7:35
Speaker 2: Those are the scariest things. I mean, I do think
7:37
Speaker 2: that's what.
7:39
Speaker 1: At some point, you're struggling with the challenge of delivering
7:43
Speaker 1: new information to voters, which is the only kind of
7:46
Speaker 1: information that breaks through about someone who everyone has formed
7:51
Speaker 1: an opinion of pretty much because he was president for
7:53
Speaker 1: four years and has been in our lives interminably since 2016.
7:58
Speaker 3: Right. But the biggest problem that I have with the
8:00
Speaker 3: trial is like him being a joke again.
8:03
Speaker 4: Right.
8:04
Speaker 3: And I don't I don't want him to be a joke.
8:07
Speaker 3: I want people to understand exactly who he is.
8:09
Speaker 2: Yeah.
8:11
Speaker 3: And that to me is the biggest issue. He's in
8:14
Speaker 3: the courtroom. His base is getting stronger. And like we're
8:19
Speaker 3: losing focus on what he'd actually do in a second
8:21
Speaker 3: Trump term.
8:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
8:23
Speaker 3: He's entertaining. He's playing for the cameras. He's, you know,
8:26
Speaker 3: he's said he can't intimidate witnesses. So he's going to
8:29
Speaker 3: post something quickly on True Social and then take it
8:31
Speaker 3: right down. But then it's out in the world. You know,
8:33
Speaker 3: like there's just.
8:35
Speaker 1: I keep going back and forth on this because when
8:36
Speaker 1: I read about his plans for second term and especially
8:40
Speaker 1: like what he's going to do with the Justice Department,
8:42
Speaker 1: you know, invoking the Insurrection Act, immigration raids, like all
8:47
Speaker 1: over the country, using the National Guard, all this kind
8:49
Speaker 1: of shit. Like, I'm like, OK, we got to define
8:51
Speaker 1: him as a very scary threat to democracy because that's
8:55
Speaker 1: what he is. And then, you know, you hear some
8:58
Speaker 1: voters and they're like what they the people who maybe
9:01
Speaker 1: back Trump and then switch to Biden or still undecided.
9:05
Speaker 1: What they don't like about Trump is they're like, it's
9:07
Speaker 1: just a lot of drama and chaos and narcissism and
9:09
Speaker 1: he cares about himself. So then I'm like, do we
9:12
Speaker 1: want to make him like maybe the joke thing is
9:15
Speaker 1: what people don't like about the four years that Trump
9:18
Speaker 1: was there in the chaos.
9:19
Speaker 2: I go back and forth.
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Speaker 1: I'm like, is it do we do we make him
9:21
Speaker 1: this like scary threat to democracy or do you make
9:23
Speaker 1: him this like narcissistic kook who just like brings chaos
9:27
Speaker 1: and drama wherever he goes? Right.
9:29
Speaker 3: People don't want chaos. That is for sure. Right. But
9:32
Speaker 3: they also I mean, when Biden was running in 2020
9:35
Speaker 3: against Trump, people remembered what Trump was like because he
9:39
Speaker 3: was actually president.
9:40
Speaker 2: Right.
9:40
Speaker 3: And now the issue is that there's there's some confusion,
9:45
Speaker 3: I think, or misremembering about what actually was happening. And
9:49
Speaker 3: and a lot of Biden's accomplishments, people give Trump credit for,
9:53
Speaker 3: you know, there's there's some issues here. I just, I
9:56
Speaker 3: think Trump is a is a master entertainer. I think
10:00
Speaker 3: he's very good at it and there's some people Who
10:04
Speaker 3: who enjoy it and instead of just having the fun like,
10:07
Speaker 3: you know celebrity apprentice guy. I think we need to
10:09
Speaker 3: go back to President Donald Trump and what that looks like.
10:14
Speaker 1: His favorability ratings are like the worst they've been since December.
10:19
Speaker 1: And then I guess his net favorability is now like
10:22
Speaker 1: worse than Biden's for the first time since last August.
10:24
Speaker 1: Do you think that's just noise? Because this is all
10:26
Speaker 1: within a margin. Or do you think it's like you
10:29
Speaker 1: think it's trial? Do you think it's just trumping in
10:30
Speaker 1: the news? Or do you think it's like, you know,
10:32
Speaker 1: the Biden campaign has been spending a ton of money
10:35
Speaker 1: on ads in a lot of these states right now?
10:37
Speaker 1: And maybe maybe just the campaign ramping up is doing this.
10:41
Speaker 3: I believe Trump was the most unpopular person ever to
10:45
Speaker 3: be like nominated. And then he was the most unpopular
10:49
Speaker 3: person to ever become president, right? So like, he is
10:54
Speaker 3: very unpopular. It's true, but I don't know if that's enough. Yeah, exactly.
10:59
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just, there's so many reasons why he's
11:04
Speaker 3: doing as poorly as he's doing. I do think Biden's
11:08
Speaker 3: campaign is starting to like, get in motion a little
11:11
Speaker 3: bit and there are messages coming out. But by and large,
11:14
Speaker 3: I think the people who will decide this election have
11:17
Speaker 3: not tuned in yet. I think they are completely in
11:21
Speaker 3: denial about who the, who the choices will be and
11:26
Speaker 3: might not tune in until way after Labor Day. Like
11:29
Speaker 3: all of this is just background noise.
11:31
Speaker 1: I know it's hard to, I often forget that this
11:34
Speaker 1: is like the longest general election campaign We can remember
11:38
Speaker 1: in our lifetimes. And it's because both nominations wrapped up
11:42
Speaker 1: so quickly. And it's a repeat. It's a rematch. And
11:45
Speaker 1: we've never had that in our lifetimes. So you can
11:48
Speaker 1: see why people would be sick of it and not
11:49
Speaker 1: want to tune in yet.
11:50
Speaker 2: We get it. Yeah, right.
11:53
Speaker 1: So per usual, after the trial was out yesterday, Trump
11:56
Speaker 1: complained to the press about how accountability for his crimes
11:59
Speaker 1: is keeping him from campaigning. Let's listen to that clip.
12:03
Speaker 4: I'm stuck. I'm here instead of being in Georgia, instead
12:08
Speaker 4: of being in New Hampshire, instead of being in Wisconsin
12:12
Speaker 4: and all the different states that we wanted to be in.
12:14
Speaker 2: We're not able to be there.
12:15
Speaker 4: Because we're stuck in this trial, which everyone knows is
12:19
Speaker 4: a hoax.
12:20
Speaker 1: So Wednesdays are Trump's day off from court. What's he
12:24
Speaker 1: up to today? Dinner at Mar-a-Lago with people who bought
12:27
Speaker 1: NFTs of his mugshot in Georgia.
12:34
Speaker 3: You couldn't make it up. You couldn't make it up.
12:35
Speaker 3: If you like type it into like the caricature, you know,
12:40
Speaker 3: like generating like what could it be? And it's like, oh,
12:42
Speaker 3: here's what he's doing tonight. I mean, it's the same
12:45
Speaker 3: reason he said he was going to be missing his
12:47
Speaker 3: kid's graduation.
12:48
Speaker 2: How terrible.
12:48
Speaker 3: And then it's like, actually, you missed all of your
12:50
Speaker 3: children's graduations. He just he's a liar. Yeah.
12:54
Speaker 2: Well, it's also it's just and it's all I do
12:56
Speaker 2: think there's like it's all a scam. Right. He is.
12:59
Speaker 1: He has such little respect, not only for most voters,
13:03
Speaker 1: but like his own supporters. He's just scamming everyone all
13:05
Speaker 1: the time. One of the offers, in addition to the NFT,
13:09
Speaker 1: was you could get a you could get a swatch
13:12
Speaker 1: of Trump's suit, physical swatch of his suit from the
13:16
Speaker 1: mugshot when he was in Georgia.
13:19
Speaker 3: I mean, but this is I think he's I think
13:22
Speaker 3: he's a master at this. Like, I'll be honest, like
13:25
Speaker 3: who like he has turned himself into this like. hero
13:28
Speaker 3: with these followers. And he just, he communicates better. He
13:33
Speaker 3: goes out there and he just says, it's all, you know,
13:35
Speaker 3: it's all terrible. Their case is falling apart. And then
13:39
Speaker 3: his followers just say that, oh, the case is falling apart.
13:42
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? And if, you know, if
13:44
Speaker 3: they win, it's like the Soros backed Democrats or whatever,
13:48
Speaker 3: you know, it's just, it's, he's very good at key
13:51
Speaker 3: phrases to get his audience like all riled up. Like
13:55
Speaker 3: he I just think we underestimate him to our own peril.
13:59
Speaker 4: Yeah.
13:59
Speaker 1: Well, and he also, I mean, he sort of owns
14:01
Speaker 1: the scams. Like he kind of knows, he's like, yeah, no,
14:04
Speaker 1: I'm profiting off all this and I'm selling the t-shirts
14:07
Speaker 1: and that's my whole shtick.
14:09
Speaker 3: I mean, he might as well wink after he does it, right?
14:11
Speaker 3: It's like he's in on, you know, like it's like he,
14:14
Speaker 3: and his people love him for it.
14:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
14:16
Speaker 1: So the Biden campaign reportedly sees Wednesdays as a chance
14:21
Speaker 1: to counter-program whatever Trump's up to so that his NFT
14:26
Speaker 1: dinners don't steal all the headlines, I guess. The president
14:28
Speaker 1: and vice president are on the campaign trail today. Kamala
14:31
Speaker 1: Harris is in Pennsylvania hitting Trump on abortion, while Joe
14:34
Speaker 1: Biden is in Wisconsin highlighting Microsoft's decision to create 2,000
14:38
Speaker 1: union construction jobs and 2,000 permanent jobs at an AI
14:42
Speaker 1: data center, which happens to be the very same spot
14:44
Speaker 1: that Trump promised 10,000 jobs from a new manufacturing facility that.
14:48
Speaker 3: Was just- Very well done by the new dance team.
14:50
Speaker 2: Never built.
14:50
Speaker 3: Yes.
14:51
Speaker 2: Foxconn never happened. Okay.
14:53
Speaker 1: Biden campaign also announced today that they're spending $ 14 million
14:56
Speaker 1: on a new ad push in the key states in
15:00
Speaker 1: May and hiring more campaign staff. And the ad also
15:03
Speaker 1: focused on Trump's pledge to destroy Obamacare and Biden's promise
15:07
Speaker 1: to protect it.
15:08
Speaker 2: Here's the ad.
15:10
Speaker 3: Obamacare is a disaster. We want to terminate it.
15:13
Speaker 2: That would mean over 100 million Americans will lose protections
15:17
Speaker 2: for pre-existing conditions.
15:19
Speaker 1: President Biden has protected the Affordable Care Act and lowered
15:22
Speaker 1: health care costs for millions by $ 800 a year.
15:26
Speaker 2: Now, he'll make those savings permanent. Health care should be
15:29
Speaker 2: a basic right. Folks, he's coming for your health care,
15:32
Speaker 2: and we're not going to let it happen. I'm Joe Biden,
15:36
Speaker 2: and I approve this message. So let's start that ad.
15:41
Speaker 2: What do you think of the ad?
15:42
Speaker 1: And do you think hitting Trump on wanting to terminate
15:45
Speaker 1: the ACA still has the potential to move voters?
15:50
Speaker 3: First of all, I love it. I love that he's
15:51
Speaker 3: out on the stump talking about jobs and he's up
15:53
Speaker 3: on the air talking about health care, like more of this, please.
15:56
Speaker 1: It's good.
15:58
Speaker 3: On health care, that was Trump's signature, like mission and
16:03
Speaker 3: failure was trying to overturn Obamacare however many times. I mean,
16:07
Speaker 3: I would love to even get more specific on health care.
16:09
Speaker 3: Like you have, you know, zero cost for your contraception. Thanks, Obama.
16:14
Speaker 1: Right.
16:15
Speaker 3: Like we did all of these things under the Obama
16:17
Speaker 3: Biden administration and Trump tried to systematically dismantle all of it.
16:22
Speaker 3: And if you go back to Trump, he's going to
16:24
Speaker 3: try and take it away again. Right. And I think
16:27
Speaker 3: that's I hope people believe it because it's true.
16:41
Speaker 1: Do you think that there needs to be sort of
16:43
Speaker 1: a forward-leaning message on this, too? Because there is, like,
16:47
Speaker 1: re-litigating the past and also reminding people of, like, what
16:51
Speaker 1: Biden has done in his presidency, what Obama-Biden did when
16:54
Speaker 1: Obama was president. But then there's also, like, you know,
16:57
Speaker 1: if you're worried about your health care or your health
16:59
Speaker 1: care is still too expensive, it's like, yeah, I don't
17:02
Speaker 1: want Donald Trump to take away the ACA, but, like,
17:05
Speaker 1: what are you guys going to do for me?
17:09
Speaker 3: Right. I mean, I just... I think we should always
17:12
Speaker 3: be on offense on health care. Absolutely. Everything we wanted
17:17
Speaker 3: to do, Democrats, it was all because of Democrats. Republicans,
17:22
Speaker 3: every step of the way, made everything harder. And I
17:25
Speaker 3: think we have to be clear that if Trump is reelected,
17:29
Speaker 3: they're coming for your health care again.
17:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:31
Speaker 1: And I guess Biden's been out there and he talks
17:34
Speaker 1: about lowering drug costs and the cap on the price
17:36
Speaker 1: of insulin and with what he's passed already. those prices
17:41
Speaker 1: of a lot of prescriptions will continue to come down.
17:45
Speaker 1: I do imagine at some point in the campaign, it
17:47
Speaker 1: is still early, they will come out with a proactive
17:51
Speaker 1: economic agenda that's more detailed. I know we talked about
17:55
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff in the State of the Union,
17:56
Speaker 1: but that's more detailed on each issue.
17:59
Speaker 3: Well, I also think we have to get better at branding, right?
18:02
Speaker 3: Why are things the way they are? It's because the
18:06
Speaker 3: Obama-Biden administration pushed it through. And I don't You know, Trump, remember,
18:10
Speaker 3: signed all the checks. It was all him. But when
18:12
Speaker 3: you go going back to contraception, when you go each
18:15
Speaker 3: month to refill your birth control pills and it's zero dollars,
18:19
Speaker 3: that's that's Obama Biden.
18:21
Speaker 2: Right.
18:21
Speaker 3: And people don't know that. They didn't know that it
18:23
Speaker 3: used to cost money eight years ago or whatever. So
18:25
Speaker 3: I just I do think there needs to be a
18:28
Speaker 3: little bit more out there on what he's actually done.
18:31
Speaker 3: So I welcomed.
18:32
Speaker 1: Did you see that Politico poll this morning that showed,
18:36
Speaker 1: they asked people about like Biden's four major legislative accomplishments, right?
18:40
Speaker 1: The American Rescue Plan, the CHIPS Act, which of course
18:43
Speaker 1: no one knew what it was. The infrastructure bill, which
18:46
Speaker 1: some more people knew.
18:48
Speaker 2: And then- Still mad that we.
18:49
Speaker 3: Called it the bipartisan infrastructure bill. We should say like
18:51
Speaker 3: brought to you by Democrats.
18:52
Speaker 2: Right, I know. And then of course the Inflation Reduction Act.
18:55
Speaker 1: And it's like the Biden campaign and the Biden White
18:58
Speaker 1: House has been just touting these projects for a couple
19:01
Speaker 1: of years now. They've made a really good push. They've
19:04
Speaker 1: been doing events. They do the ribbon cuttings. The outside
19:07
Speaker 1: groups probably spent like millions of dollars over the last
19:10
Speaker 1: couple of years to get that out there. And then
19:12
Speaker 1: you just have voters who are like, eh, no idea,
19:15
Speaker 1: no idea who did this.
19:16
Speaker 2: No idea. Some people are crediting Trump for the infrastructure bill.
19:20
Speaker 3: Or worse, the, the, the members of Congress who voted
19:23
Speaker 3: against it are touting like all the successes in their district.
19:26
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like, it's, It's maddening, but it's I mean,
19:31
Speaker 3: it's also harder with the news doesn't resonate the way
19:35
Speaker 3: it once did. Like you could have you can have
19:37
Speaker 3: a big event, but it's like sometimes it's a tree
19:40
Speaker 3: falling in the forest. And that's that's another challenge for him.
19:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does seem like this is a communication challenge.
19:46
Speaker 1: And look, we faced it with the Recovery Act back
19:49
Speaker 1: in the day.
19:50
Speaker 2: In 2009. And like the media.
19:51
Speaker 1: Environment is so much worse, so much more difficult. And like,
19:56
Speaker 1: you know, even if the New York Times or the
19:58
Speaker 1: Washington Post write a big story or the local or
20:02
Speaker 1: like in Wisconsin right now, I'm sure this will get great.
20:04
Speaker 1: I'm sure the president will get great coverage in Wisconsin.
20:06
Speaker 1: But like how many voters are actually tuning in and
20:10
Speaker 1: understand that he was there.
20:11
Speaker 3: Do people watch the news?
20:13
Speaker 2: Yeah.
20:13
Speaker 3: Who reads the paper? I mean, this goes back to like,
20:15
Speaker 3: how do you, and if you are working on a campaign,
20:18
Speaker 3: how do you make your news pop? Because it's not like,
20:23
Speaker 3: it's not like everyday voters are going, are getting the
20:26
Speaker 3: paper delivered and then going to the political news and saying, well,
20:29
Speaker 3: what's happening? They have no, actually they're tuning out news
20:33
Speaker 3: more than ever before, or they're getting little snippets of it.
20:36
Speaker 1: So how do campaigns do that now? What's the like-
20:39
Speaker 1: Is it relational organizing and talking to people? Is it
20:42
Speaker 1: just like spending on ads on every medium you can
20:46
Speaker 1: think of, right?
20:46
Speaker 2: Television, digital, everywhere else? What are some of the good strategies?
20:50
Speaker 3: I mean, you know the expression, you got to meet
20:51
Speaker 3: voters where they are. And I think that is more
20:56
Speaker 3: true now than ever before. And voters are on all
20:59
Speaker 3: different social media platforms. They're on YouTube. I mean, they're
21:02
Speaker 3: not paying attention to any political news. And we'll get
21:06
Speaker 3: into it, I think, a little later about Ruben Gallego.
21:09
Speaker 3: Senate candidate I'm working for. But one of the things
21:11
Speaker 3: he did this weekend is there was the big Canelo fight, which,
21:14
Speaker 3: as you know, is a big moment. The fight in, like,
21:18
Speaker 3: Latino households getting together with friends and family to, like,
21:20
Speaker 3: watch the fight. And instead of, you know, what Ruben
21:23
Speaker 3: would usually do is watch it with his own friends
21:25
Speaker 3: and family. So he's like, let's have it as a
21:27
Speaker 3: campaign event. And then we had this huge event with–
21:30
Speaker 3: Like a bunch of folks came out and they had
21:33
Speaker 3: fun and they got to talk to their Senate candidate
21:35
Speaker 3: about the fight, which he had a lot of opinions on,
21:38
Speaker 3: and actually like connect with him. And I think that's
21:42
Speaker 3: something that a lot of politicians are struggling to do
21:45
Speaker 3: is to connect to actual voters and be normal.
21:48
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that's like, and it's, I mean, even
21:51
Speaker 1: in the best circumstances, that's so much harder when you
21:53
Speaker 1: are president because you have to do it on a
21:55
Speaker 1: national level. And also you're stuck in the White House
21:59
Speaker 1: and it's harder to be like nimble with campaign events.
22:02
Speaker 2: Well, yeah.
22:02
Speaker 3: And with Biden, I mean, he's so good in a room, right?
22:06
Speaker 3: Like he is, he's, you know, Bill Clinton, you remember
22:10
Speaker 3: how he would say, like, I feel your pain. I
22:13
Speaker 3: don't think anyone feels pain better than Joe Biden, right?
22:17
Speaker 3: He is a deeply empathetic individual when it comes to
22:20
Speaker 3: personal loss and one-on-one and all of these things. However,
22:24
Speaker 3: in a bigger climate, it doesn't work the same way, right?
22:29
Speaker 3: It's tougher for him. And his personality doesn't come across
22:34
Speaker 3: the same way. And things are pretty scripted and tight
22:37
Speaker 3: right now, as they are with most presidents.
22:39
Speaker 1: And I know they're trying to do more of these
22:42
Speaker 1: events where instead of like a big event or a
22:44
Speaker 1: big rally, they just have him with in a room
22:47
Speaker 1: with like 10, 15 people. And, you know, even the
22:50
Speaker 1: coverage of that is even probably better for him than
22:53
Speaker 1: the big rally coverage. Let's talk about the state of
22:55
Speaker 1: the race more generally. Obviously, extremely close nationally. Polling average
22:59
Speaker 1: has shown like a one to two point race since March.
23:01
Speaker 1: Trump has a slightly larger lead in the battleground states
23:04
Speaker 1: that add up to 270. When these two ran against
23:06
Speaker 1: each other in 2020, Biden led. by more, both nationally
23:10
Speaker 1: and the battleground states, the entire time. And that was
23:13
Speaker 1: before Trump attempted a coup, incited an insurrection, was charged
23:16
Speaker 1: with 88 felony counts, and became responsible for overturning the
23:19
Speaker 1: constitutional right to an abortion. He's also barely campaigning, not
23:23
Speaker 1: really running ads yet. That's going to change. What is
23:26
Speaker 1: your overall read on why this thing is so tight
23:28
Speaker 1: right now?
23:29
Speaker 3: I mean, this goes back to the fact that voters
23:32
Speaker 3: are looking at the two candidates and they're like, is
23:34
Speaker 3: that all there is?
23:35
Speaker 2: Right?
23:36
Speaker 3: Like, they're not They want a little bit more. They're
23:40
Speaker 3: not happy with their circumstance. They feel like they're drowning.
23:43
Speaker 3: They feel like no one understands what they're going through.
23:46
Speaker 3: And some of this is, you know, the age problem, right?
23:49
Speaker 3: Like the candidates are so old, they're like, how do
23:52
Speaker 3: they know what I'm going through? But a lot of
23:54
Speaker 3: it is just feeling that like they want something different
23:57
Speaker 3: and new and they're just unhappy with what's out there.
24:00
Speaker 3: I think Trump has really succeeded at saying we can
24:05
Speaker 3: do more than what we're doing. And I think the
24:08
Speaker 3: Biden campaign is going to end much stronger because they'll
24:11
Speaker 3: be on TV and have like a bigger paid budget
24:14
Speaker 3: than the Trump campaign will just in terms of touting
24:17
Speaker 3: their successes and also explaining the choice right now, because
24:21
Speaker 3: the choice is pretty stark.
24:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
24:23
Speaker 1: I mean, the Trump trials, as we said, have been
24:25
Speaker 1: dominating the headlines. The war in Gaza has, too, for
24:27
Speaker 1: good reason. What do you see as the top issue
24:31
Speaker 1: for or top issues for most voters right now that
24:35
Speaker 1: are going to There's what people say is important to
24:39
Speaker 1: the country. And then there's like what people say is
24:43
Speaker 1: this is probably an issue that could decide my vote. Right.
24:47
Speaker 3: I think the economy, inflation, absolutely a top issue. It
24:51
Speaker 3: is something that everyone is thinking about, like what they're
24:53
Speaker 3: bringing home, what they're spending. It is what is keeping
24:57
Speaker 3: most American families up at night. I wouldn't underestimate the
25:00
Speaker 3: border and its relevance in a lot of voters' minds
25:03
Speaker 3: in terms of being transparent. tough on the border and
25:07
Speaker 3: having a clear plan there. And absolutely, I would say
25:11
Speaker 3: the biggest issue I'm hearing from voters is about abortion, right?
25:15
Speaker 3: Like in a post-Dobbs world, this is not an issue
25:20
Speaker 3: that is going away, right? Like every year you have
25:22
Speaker 3: some pundit on TV saying, well, this is like, this
25:25
Speaker 3: isn't going to be the issue. Women, like this already happened,
25:28
Speaker 3: you know, whatever. And it's like absolutely no fucking way.
25:31
Speaker 3: Like this is the issue. And I do think it's,
25:35
Speaker 3: It's this weird world because of what happened in 2016
25:38
Speaker 3: where many people thought we would win and then we lost.
25:42
Speaker 3: There is this like PTSD, especially among Democrats, like, oh
25:45
Speaker 3: my God, we're going to lose. We're going to lose, right?
25:50
Speaker 3: But in every election, 2018, 2020, 2022, Democrats have held on, right?
25:54
Speaker 3: And I do think that on abortion in particular, it
25:57
Speaker 3: will be very hard for Republicans to win on this
26:01
Speaker 3: issue because they have shown us what they will do
26:03
Speaker 3: when they're in power.
26:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
26:04
Speaker 1: This is another one where obviously there's this debate, like,
26:08
Speaker 1: should Democrats and Biden focus on economic issues and the
26:12
Speaker 1: economic contrast with Trump? Biden campaign has, you know, it's
26:16
Speaker 1: reported that they have said, like, they think that the
26:19
Speaker 1: election will come down to Dobbs and democracy, right? Abortion
26:22
Speaker 1: is an issue. Democracy is an issue. And, you know,
26:25
Speaker 1: I mean, I've been doing campaigns and politics as long
26:30
Speaker 1: as you and we've seen all the polling for decades.
26:32
Speaker 1: It's like, The economic issues and the economic contrast are
26:35
Speaker 1: always the best for Democrats. But I'm trying to imagine
26:40
Speaker 1: persuading an undecided voter who's pissed about inflation and thinks
26:44
Speaker 1: that the Trump economy was better for them, even though
26:48
Speaker 1: they don't really like Trump. And it's like, what do
26:50
Speaker 1: you say to that voter, right?
26:53
Speaker 2: And I wonder if it's harder to.
26:58
Speaker 1: Convince that voter that Biden and the Democrats are right
27:00
Speaker 1: because they're actually the Trump economy wasn't as good and
27:04
Speaker 1: Trump's going to do bad economic things and we're going
27:06
Speaker 1: to actually pass an agenda that, you know, tangibly improves
27:09
Speaker 1: your lives? Or is it like, well, maybe you're pissed
27:12
Speaker 1: about the economy, but also Donald Trump is going to
27:15
Speaker 1: restrict abortion across the country if he is president and
27:19
Speaker 1: he's going to terminate the ACA and he's going to,
27:22
Speaker 1: you know, go after his enemies and call up the military,
27:25
Speaker 1: all the scary things about Trump.
27:26
Speaker 2: Like, I'm just trying to figure out like what.
27:29
Speaker 3: I guess the first thing you should not do is
27:31
Speaker 3: to tell voters, you're fine. You're doing so well.
27:34
Speaker 2: Trust me.
27:34
Speaker 3: Look at the numbers. You're doing great.
27:36
Speaker 2: You're great.
27:37
Speaker 3: Because that is something, especially some members of Congress have really,
27:41
Speaker 3: I think, failed at by just like discounting what people
27:44
Speaker 3: actually feel and saying, this is great. Look at it
27:47
Speaker 3: as a whole. Because you got to talk to people
27:49
Speaker 3: about like what they're actually going through. But I do
27:52
Speaker 3: think it's important to remind people of what a Trump
27:56
Speaker 3: presidency was like. like and how much good has happened
28:00
Speaker 3: since Biden has become president. You know, there's still a
28:02
Speaker 3: lot of work to do. But I don't I think
28:06
Speaker 3: we absolutely need to have some empathy for voters feeling
28:11
Speaker 3: like we're not doing enough and and to communicate as
28:17
Speaker 3: effectively as possible, but also explain what the choice is.
28:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I keep I keep wanting to hear more like
28:24
Speaker 1: present tense verbs you know it's like like we're fighting
28:28
Speaker 1: for you and we went through this like terrible pandemic
28:32
Speaker 1: and it set off inflation and since then inflation's been
28:35
Speaker 1: coming down but we are not done and because prices
28:38
Speaker 1: are still too high and we're going to keep fighting
28:40
Speaker 1: to lower costs and that's our number one you know
28:42
Speaker 1: like i haven't heard that.
28:44
Speaker 3: Enough like i haven't heard that empathy it doesn't it's
28:47
Speaker 3: and and voters want it or they will blame the
28:50
Speaker 3: democrats right because if If Democrats are out there saying
28:53
Speaker 3: you're fine, then that's they're going to they're going to lose.
28:56
Speaker 2: Right. And and you need a villain.
28:59
Speaker 4: Right.
28:59
Speaker 1: And you need to talk about like corporate price gouging
29:01
Speaker 1: and how Republicans would, you know, pass and Trump would
29:04
Speaker 1: pass another huge tax cut for those corporations that are
29:07
Speaker 1: price gouging.
29:08
Speaker 2: Like you're going to put the story together.
29:11
Speaker 1: How are you feeling about the race to control Congress,
29:13
Speaker 1: House and Senate?
29:15
Speaker 3: Well, I will tell you something. I feel a little
29:18
Speaker 3: bullish here. And I have. A lot of friends, I
29:22
Speaker 3: feel like we all do, who stay up late at night,
29:25
Speaker 3: every night, just worried that Biden's going to lose reelection.
29:28
Speaker 3: Everything's going to be terrible. It's terrible. It's just doomsday
29:31
Speaker 3: all the way.
29:32
Speaker 4: Right.
29:32
Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:33
Speaker 3: And first of all, I think it'll be tight, but
29:36
Speaker 3: I do think Biden's going to win. But secondly, I
29:39
Speaker 3: think if you're really worried that Biden's going to lose,
29:42
Speaker 3: then you need to do everything you can to make
29:44
Speaker 3: sure we win back the House of Representatives and make
29:48
Speaker 3: Hakeem Jeffries Speaker of the House. Like that is, there
29:52
Speaker 3: are races out there that we lost by a very
29:54
Speaker 3: close margin last cycle We can now win. And we
30:00
Speaker 3: should be focused on these states where these races are.
30:02
Speaker 3: And they are in blue areas. They are in New York.
30:05
Speaker 3: They are in California. It used to be, I've done
30:09
Speaker 3: so many races in Pennsylvania, there would always be a
30:14
Speaker 3: busload of New Yorkers coming down to come to the
30:18
Speaker 3: Philly suburbs or something. Now, just get on the train
30:21
Speaker 3: and go to the suburbs of New York, and you
30:23
Speaker 3: can help Mondaire Jones get back to Congress. And I
30:26
Speaker 3: think you have in suburban LA, you have someone who
30:33
Speaker 3: thinks that the war on wokeism is worse than the
30:37
Speaker 3: perils we felt in World War II. I think that's
30:40
Speaker 3: Congressman Garcia. There are a lot of folks out there
30:43
Speaker 3: that we should send home and we can win. So
30:47
Speaker 3: I feel absolutely 100% convinced that if we can focus
30:52
Speaker 3: on the House and not just the on power if
30:59
Speaker 3: all hell breaks loose.
31:00
Speaker 2: If all else fails.
31:01
Speaker 1: No, I think the House is very doable. It's probably
31:03
Speaker 1: the most... I mean, you know.
31:05
Speaker 2: It's either.
31:05
Speaker 1: It's probably either the same or better chances as Biden
31:09
Speaker 1: has in the House. I mean, the House is very,
31:11
Speaker 1: very gettable. The Senate is, as you know, is obviously
31:14
Speaker 1: tougher because we've got to win Sherrod's seat.
31:16
Speaker 2: Not impossible. Not impossible.
31:18
Speaker 1: Sherrod's got to win. Tester's got to win.
31:20
Speaker 2: And then your guy's got to win.
31:22
Speaker 3: Yes, we have to win. And then maybe there'll be
31:24
Speaker 3: a surprise. I mean, you remember... Back in our day,
31:27
Speaker 3: we were in the Senate. There was this race in 2006,
31:33
Speaker 3: and nobody thought we would win back the Senate. And
31:35
Speaker 3: then out of nowhere, Virginia became in play, and we.
31:38
Speaker 2: Won back the Senate.
31:39
Speaker 3: So sometimes when it goes, it goes. So who knows?
31:43
Speaker 3: Maybe there will be a sweep. We're spending so much
31:45
Speaker 3: time worried about what could go wrong. We haven't really
31:48
Speaker 3: spent any time thinking, hey, what if things go right?
31:51
Speaker 1: And this is our nature. This is our nature, of course.
31:54
Speaker 1: But like, to your point, this is a great time
31:56
Speaker 1: for me to make this plug. We launched this week,
31:59
Speaker 1: Vote Save America launched this week, Organizer Else, which is
32:01
Speaker 1: our big organizing effort ahead of the election. And if
32:05
Speaker 1: you go to votesaveamerica.com slash 2024, you can choose a team.
32:10
Speaker 1: It's East versus West, Rebecca. So I am, me and
32:14
Speaker 1: Lovett are the captains of Team West. And then Dan
32:17
Speaker 1: and Tommy are East. But yeah. So but you can
32:20
Speaker 1: sign up and then we have like 71 races that
32:23
Speaker 1: we picked, which are just like places where you can
32:25
Speaker 1: have the most impact, volunteer your time, money.
32:28
Speaker 2: They're down ballot. So it's like it's not just the
32:30
Speaker 2: big federal races. It's all over.
32:32
Speaker 3: I love this because we forget about state legislatures. And
32:35
Speaker 3: it's like conservatives have been focused on state legislatures for years. And,
32:41
Speaker 3: you know, Democrats are just really basically post January 6th.
32:44
Speaker 3: They're like, oh, this is important.
32:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
32:46
Speaker 3: So I hope that we can focus some of our
32:49
Speaker 3: attention on that.
32:50
Speaker 1: So one of the one of the reasons I'm happy
32:52
Speaker 1: about being a captain of Team West is I want
32:55
Speaker 1: to talk specifically about a state that I've been bullish
32:57
Speaker 1: on that I know you are to state of Arizona.
33:00
Speaker 1: So Biden won Arizona in 2020 by just point three percent,
33:04
Speaker 1: a bit more than 10,000 votes. I think you could
33:07
Speaker 1: make the case that it's. not just one of the
33:09
Speaker 1: most important states, it might be the most important state
33:11
Speaker 1: this time around.
33:12
Speaker 2: It could, because Arizona, I certainly think so.
33:14
Speaker 1: I mean, it could once again decide the presidency, particularly
33:17
Speaker 1: if Biden loses Wisconsin, say, right. Then Arizona would, Arizona
33:22
Speaker 1: would still give him the two 70. If he gets
33:24
Speaker 1: the rest, it could decide control the house. There's a
33:26
Speaker 1: couple competitive house races there. And of course the Senate, uh,
33:30
Speaker 1: where you're working for democratic candidate, Ruben Gallego, who's running
33:33
Speaker 1: against the certifiable Glock enthusiast, Carrie Lake. Um, There's also
33:38
Speaker 1: likely to be a ballot measure that would enshrine abortion
33:41
Speaker 1: rights in the state constitution and thereby eliminate the current
33:45
Speaker 1: 15 week ban. So first I wanted to ask just
33:48
Speaker 1: what has changed in Arizona since 2020? Is the environment
33:52
Speaker 1: different than what Democrats faced four years ago or is
33:54
Speaker 1: it basically the same terrain? Like has anything shifted?
33:58
Speaker 3: Well, so what has not shifted is that Arizonans continue
34:01
Speaker 3: to be very independently minded. They, they, they like their candidates, um,
34:07
Speaker 3: not super crazy. They like them with an independent streak
34:11
Speaker 3: and someone who will fight for them. What has changed
34:14
Speaker 3: is dobs. We are in, you know, Roe was overturned.
34:19
Speaker 3: And in Arizona, they've had an even more extreme example
34:22
Speaker 3: of that in terms of the 1864 ban. A ban,
34:28
Speaker 3: you know, that law, Carrie Lake, our opponent, a few
34:32
Speaker 3: years ago was on the trail where she referred to
34:34
Speaker 3: that law as a great law. Um, and, and so,
34:39
Speaker 3: you know, Arizona, like women in Arizona have been a
34:41
Speaker 3: political football here. Like they're, they're just messing with, with
34:45
Speaker 3: what's happening. Um, and I think that a lot of
34:50
Speaker 3: voters are pissed about it.
34:52
Speaker 1: Are you guys hearing that from voters at events and stuff? Is,
34:54
Speaker 1: is that become a, I mean.
34:56
Speaker 3: Remember the law keep first, first there was like Dobbs, right?
35:00
Speaker 3: And then there was the, the law in Arizona. Then
35:03
Speaker 3: there's the 1864 ban. It's just, it is. women have
35:07
Speaker 3: had enough of this. They, they, they want abortion to
35:10
Speaker 3: be safe and legal. They want to be able to
35:12
Speaker 3: access it and make it a choice between them and
35:14
Speaker 3: their doctor.
35:27
Speaker 1: Do you, um, you guys see Carrie Lake as a
35:29
Speaker 1: stronger or weaker candidate than she was in 2022. She's
35:32
Speaker 1: reportedly been trying to, uh, positioning herself as less kooky
35:36
Speaker 1: MAGA and more mainstream MAGA. You think she's having any
35:39
Speaker 1: luck with that?
35:39
Speaker 3: I mean, where to begin? Here's like Carrie Lake, you know,
35:45
Speaker 3: was this trusted TV anchor for years in the Phoenix
35:50
Speaker 3: media markets on TV. People liked her very much. And
35:53
Speaker 3: then she blew it all up with her 2022 election
35:58
Speaker 3: campaign for governor. She went fully off the deep end.
36:05
Speaker 3: in terms of election denial. People look at her as
36:08
Speaker 3: power hungry. They don't trust her. And they think she'll
36:11
Speaker 3: say anything to get elected because they have seen it happen.
36:14
Speaker 3: Not just like as like the friendly neighborhood election denier,
36:17
Speaker 3: but also as someone who has gone on and on
36:19
Speaker 3: about how pro-life they are. Then the 1864 ban happens.
36:24
Speaker 3: Then they say they don't want to, you know, they're
36:27
Speaker 3: not really for that. Then they say it's a choice
36:29
Speaker 3: and they take off abortion from their website. You know,
36:31
Speaker 3: there's a lot going out there, but she has not
36:35
Speaker 3: moderated her positions. I just want to be clear. She
36:37
Speaker 3: is exactly where she was. She might say different things
36:40
Speaker 3: to different audiences. She is still as extreme as ever.
36:44
Speaker 3: And it's hard for her because you have Ruben Gallego,
36:47
Speaker 3: who's like, I will say I'm biased. He's a pretty
36:51
Speaker 3: great guy. And he will go anywhere in Arizona. He'll
36:55
Speaker 3: talk to anyone. He'll have a conversation. She is talking
36:59
Speaker 3: specifically to her base, sometimes her base of one, Donald Trump.
37:03
Speaker 3: But then, you know, just to her folks, and she
37:06
Speaker 3: is saying, you know, crazy things. And she can't even
37:11
Speaker 3: get to the independents and the Democrats. She's still dealing
37:13
Speaker 3: with the McCain Republicans, who she told to, like, get
37:16
Speaker 3: the hell out of the party. And when she's talking about,
37:19
Speaker 3: McCain said, like, Arizona's delivered some losers, you know? And
37:23
Speaker 3: then winds up, like, tweeting to Meghan McCain, like, can
37:25
Speaker 3: we be friends, you know? And she, of course, had
37:29
Speaker 3: choice worse for her back. But the point here is, like,
37:32
Speaker 3: it is, She is an election denier. She has denied
37:36
Speaker 3: it again and again and again. And I think she
37:39
Speaker 3: lost a lot of credibility, what little she had after
37:42
Speaker 3: the 22 election when she just didn't believe it and
37:46
Speaker 3: kept going out there.
37:48
Speaker 1: What I really like about your guy, Ruben Gallego, is
37:51
Speaker 1: like great Democrat, progressive, great story, great like, you know.
37:57
Speaker 1: But he's also just normal sounding. He talks like a
38:01
Speaker 1: normal person.
38:01
Speaker 2: Like we had him.
38:03
Speaker 1: I think Dan and I talked to him on PSA
38:05
Speaker 1: like a couple of years ago when he was way
38:07
Speaker 1: before he ran for Senate. And I was like, oh,
38:10
Speaker 1: he could be like a guest host. He's just like
38:13
Speaker 1: talking normally. He's like he doesn't talk like doesn't do
38:15
Speaker 1: the talking point thing. Politicians, you and I talked about
38:17
Speaker 1: this before. I do think that that goes a long way,
38:21
Speaker 1: especially if you're running against someone like Carrie Lake.
38:24
Speaker 3: Well, right. Who's, you know, so, you know, can just
38:26
Speaker 3: say whatever you say to her. She's like, you know,
38:29
Speaker 3: election denial. Like, you know, she just she's she's very
38:33
Speaker 3: on message. But what is her message? Right. Whereas Ruben,
38:38
Speaker 3: I mean, he is Ruben Gallego is just for those
38:41
Speaker 3: of your listeners who don't know, he working class kid
38:45
Speaker 3: grew up raised by a single mom with a bunch
38:47
Speaker 3: of sisters and got himself into Harvard, even though his
38:52
Speaker 3: guidance counselor said no one from here goes to places
38:54
Speaker 3: like that, went out to serve his country, was in
39:00
Speaker 3: one of the most deadliest units in the war, and
39:04
Speaker 3: came back and decided to serve his country in a
39:06
Speaker 3: different way in the U.S.
39:08
Speaker 1: Congress.
39:09
Speaker 3: And he is a good human being. And I think
39:12
Speaker 3: we need those in the Senate. You know, I think
39:15
Speaker 3: he's someone... who has dealt with his own, you know,
39:20
Speaker 3: who has a family, who understands like a lot of
39:23
Speaker 3: the challenges that many American families are going through. And he's, um, he,
39:31
Speaker 3: he gets it going back to what I was saying
39:32
Speaker 3: about the Canela fight the other day. This was all
39:34
Speaker 3: his idea. Like we should do this. This is what
39:36
Speaker 3: normal people do. And you have a bunch of campaign
39:38
Speaker 3: advisors being like, tell me more about what normal people do.
39:42
Speaker 2: You know?
39:43
Speaker 3: So it's, um, it's, it's, it is refreshing and he's
39:47
Speaker 3: young and energetic. And I think this is, good for
39:51
Speaker 3: all of the Democrats to have candidates who are exciting.
39:55
Speaker 3: It's been a minute, you know, and I think we are,
39:59
Speaker 3: you know, we do this thing where we look at
40:01
Speaker 3: each race and we're like, here's one candidate and we
40:03
Speaker 3: can get this win, razor sharp, you know, this and that.
40:05
Speaker 3: But we haven't had a moment where we think about, hey,
40:08
Speaker 3: are there candidates out there that we can inspire some
40:10
Speaker 3: folks with? Because the stakes are so high, we don't
40:13
Speaker 3: have time to dream. You know, we just kind of
40:16
Speaker 3: say like, OK, here's a Democrat. Maybe they can win.
40:18
Speaker 3: And I think with Ruben Gallego, there's something exciting for
40:22
Speaker 3: the future there.
40:23
Speaker 1: Before we go, I wanted to ask you about the
40:25
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Senate race between Democratic Senator Bob Casey and Connecticut
40:29
Speaker 1: hedge fund manager Dave McCormick. You helped run John Fetterman's
40:33
Speaker 1: race against Dr.
40:34
Speaker 4: Oz.
40:34
Speaker 1: So I know you have experience running against out of
40:37
Speaker 1: touch rich guys from out of state. How much do
40:40
Speaker 1: you think Bob Casey can borrow from the playbook you
40:43
Speaker 1: guys used against Dr. Oz?
40:45
Speaker 3: I mean, it's pretty amazing, right, that two cycles in
40:49
Speaker 3: a row they can nominate someone who doesn't live there,
40:53
Speaker 3: is rich and out of touch, doesn't get it. I mean,
40:55
Speaker 3: what's interesting about McCormick is he keeps doing these interviews.
40:59
Speaker 3: I think he even did one today where he'll say
41:01
Speaker 3: something like, when I moved back to Pennsylvania last year
41:04
Speaker 3: or something like that. You know, like it's always– he
41:08
Speaker 3: lives in Connecticut. His kids go to school in Connecticut.
41:10
Speaker 3: Like it is– that's– That's who he is. He just
41:14
Speaker 3: looked at Pennsylvania and was like, oh, maybe I could
41:15
Speaker 3: win there because I'm not going to win in Connecticut,
41:17
Speaker 3: which is exactly what happened with Dr.
41:19
Speaker 1: Oz.
41:19
Speaker 3: He knew he couldn't win in New Jersey. But the
41:22
Speaker 3: problem is with the Pennsylvania Republican Party because they have
41:25
Speaker 3: so many extreme candidates like Doug Mastriano, who ran for
41:28
Speaker 3: governor last year, that they're literally outsourcing to other states
41:33
Speaker 3: to come in to help them try and win. But no,
41:36
Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to work. Bob Casey is
41:38
Speaker 3: a good man. He's got.
41:42
Speaker 3: High Pennsylvania name ID, that Casey brand is strong. And
41:47
Speaker 3: I think if he just keeps his head down and
41:49
Speaker 3: does the work, I think he will go right back
41:52
Speaker 3: to the Senate.
41:53
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:53
Speaker 1: Seems like one where Dave McCormick could just kind of
41:55
Speaker 1: sink himself. Obviously, Biden needs to win Pennsylvania. What are
41:59
Speaker 1: you hearing from folks on the ground about that?
42:02
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, I think every battleground state is going
42:04
Speaker 3: to be close. I don't take anything for granted. I
42:07
Speaker 3: think you know, anyone who thinks that this election doesn't
42:11
Speaker 3: matter or that they're all the same, like that's where
42:13
Speaker 3: we get into real problems. We have to explain to
42:17
Speaker 3: people what the stakes of this election are in very
42:19
Speaker 3: clear terms. I think that, you know, Biden gets hit
42:23
Speaker 3: a lot for what he's doing wrong. What he's doing
42:25
Speaker 3: right is he's raised a lot of money and he's
42:28
Speaker 3: kind of saving a lot of it to communicate late
42:30
Speaker 3: to voters because I think that's when they'll be tuning in.
42:33
Speaker 3: And hopefully everyone knows the stakes of this election because
42:37
Speaker 3: we can't.
42:37
Speaker 2: Sit on the side. I know I saw that.
42:39
Speaker 1: I just saw in the long Vanity Fair piece about
42:40
Speaker 1: the Biden campaign. They were saying, like, we don't worry.
42:43
Speaker 1: We know exactly who the voters are that we need
42:46
Speaker 1: to talk to, that we need to get. And we
42:48
Speaker 1: have the money to talk to them.
42:49
Speaker 4: Right.
42:49
Speaker 2: Like, who knows? Hopefully it works. Right. It may not.
42:52
Speaker 1: But like they know they know where the voters are
42:55
Speaker 1: and they're going to have the resources to talk to them.
42:57
Speaker 2: So that part.
42:58
Speaker 3: There are some there's some smart people at the top
43:01
Speaker 3: over there. And I think they're going to make some
43:03
Speaker 3: some really good decisions. I just think we all. we
43:06
Speaker 3: all are so scared of losing that it's hard to
43:10
Speaker 3: just feel, to take a minute to feel okay about
43:13
Speaker 3: where we are. Because it is, if you look at
43:15
Speaker 3: just where Biden and the Democrats are, it does look
43:17
Speaker 3: really tricky. But then if you go to the other
43:20
Speaker 3: side and look at where the Republicans and Trump are,
43:22
Speaker 3: it's a little harder for them.
43:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
43:25
Speaker 1: Rebecca Katz, thank you so much for joining Pod Save
43:29
Speaker 1: America today and giving us your insight on all the
43:33
Speaker 1: day's news and Arizona and Pennsylvania.
43:35
Speaker 2: Appreciate it.
43:36
Speaker 3: Well, thanks so much for having me. Really enjoyed it.
43:38
Speaker 3: Good to see you.
43:39
Speaker 2: Two quick things before we go.
43:41
Speaker 1: In a special new episode of Liberal Tears, Tommy and
43:43
Speaker 1: Brian Tyler Cohen draft their list of the most extreme
43:46
Speaker 1: Republican candidates running in 2024 with the help of our
43:50
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