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SHEIN Launches Investigation after Luigi Mangione Appears Modeling Men's Shirts in Their Ads · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it's Friday night and
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: it is special.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: What does accused assassin Luigi Mangione have to do with
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: the world's largest fashion retailer Shine? Okay, wait for it,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: wait for it. Remember Luigi Mangioni. He's behind bars for
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: gunning down a healthcare ceo, leaving behind a widow and
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: two boys because he was quote angry at the insurance system.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was born with.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: A silver spoon in his mouth, was educated within the
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Ivy League prep schools all the way, has been baking
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: in the sun in Hawaii by the ocean, living in
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: a high rise, not working a lick, and then he
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: comes to Manhattan guns down a hard king ceo. Yeah,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: that's Luigi Manngioni. But what does he have to do
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: with Shine? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: want to thank you for being with us. In the
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: last days, the alleged assassin was pictured beaming white rephrase.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: In the last days, the alleged assassin was pictured smiling
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: for the camera wearing a white floral patterned button up shirt.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: In the image of the In the image on the
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Chinese I can't say that, okay. In the last days,
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the alleged assassin has been pictured smiling for the camera
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: wearing a white floral patterned button up shirt and it's
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: apparently a Shine article and it states underneath it Men's
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: news spring summer short sleeve blue ditzy floral white shirt
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: pastoral style gent something he's wearing that he's modeling that
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: for ten dollars and thirty nine cents. He's wearing a
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Maha men's striped short sleeve shirt for eight seventy seven.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: What Luigi Mangioni is now a cover model for Shine?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: They say, know what they say, no way, and I
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: think I know why they don't want to be associated
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: with Luigi Mangioni.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Earlier this morning in Altoona, Pennsylvania, members of the Altuna
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: Police Department arrested Luigi Mangioni, a twenty six year old,
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: mail on firearms charges. At this time, he is believed
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: to be our person of interest.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: From what we understand, McDonald's employee and Altoona in western
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Pennsylvania spotted the guy and thinks he looked like the
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: health Boss assassin, probably trying to use a fake ID
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: in a McDonald's.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: According to law enforcement and the New.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: York Post the man being eyed for the cold blooded
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  Speaker 2: execution of Brian Thompson. The guy has a gun, a
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: silencer for fake IDs, and other items consistent with what
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Ellie was looking for in the case.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: But is it him? Does he match this description?
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: According to a McDonald's employee, he does?
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: What else do we know? Where?
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Is Altoona, Pennsylvania, Western Pennsylvania, two hundred and eighty miles
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  Speaker 2: away from Manhattan, a little over a five hour drive.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: But the manhunt across the nation going in every direction
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: from Manhattan. Divers, drones, you name it, all used employed
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: to find the killer of the health care boss.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: What led to the detainment of this guy?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: We also understand that in his possession is a New
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Jersey ID at fake ID, possibly used to check into
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: that Manhattan hostel.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Police press conference listen.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: A man was taken it to custody today at Altuda,
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: Pennsylvania this morning. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangioni.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: He's a male, twenty six years old. He was born
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: and raised in Maryland. We know he has tys to
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: San Francisco, California, and his last known address was Honolulu, Hawaii.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: He has no prior arrest history in New York. Members
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: of the NYPD Detective Bureau are currently traveling to Pennsylvania
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: with members of the Manhattan District Attorney's Office to interview
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: this subject. This case was brought to a successful conclusion
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: based on the co ordinated effort between numerous NYPD units,
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: including the Intelligence and counter Terrorism Bureau, a federal partners
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: at the FBI, the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and of course,
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: members of the Altoona Police Department in Pennsylvania. On Thursday,
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: one day after this crime was committed, the NYPD released
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: a photo of the shooter in this case. This picture
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: was obtained by the NYPD during one of their extensive
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: video canvases. We took that photograph and we asked for
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: the public's health in identifying this subject, and the public responded.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: Hundreds of tips began to pour into our hotline. Each
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: tip was investigated thoroughly, and we began to release additional
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: photographs as they came into our possession. The NYPD provided
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: these photos to numerous media outlets, Local, national, and international
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: outlets released a photo via television, print, social media, and
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: online content. Luckily, a citizen in Pennsylvania recognized our subject
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: and called local law enforcement. Members of the Altoona Police
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: Department responded to the call and based on their investigation,
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: they notified the NYPD. This investigation is still and ongoing.
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much.
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: I had a couple questions about the document that he
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: was found in possession with. Can you go a little
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: bit more in depth about those motivations that you mentioned,
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: was that CEO specifically named in that document? Was there
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: anything more about him wanting to go after others? And
• 6:20
  Speaker 5: also in that document, was there any indication that explains
• 6:24
  Speaker 5: us how the level of detail that he went into
• 6:26
  Speaker 5: killing him, like, is there anything else that.
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: That document is currently in the possession of the Ottoon
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: of Police Department as part of their investigation, but just
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that there's
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document,
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  Speaker 4: but it does seem that he has some ill will
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: towards Corporate America.
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  Speaker 5: Can you point to a single linchpin that help practice case.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: There's numerous lynchpins in this case. And the fact that
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: we've recovered an enormous amount of forensic evidence, an enormous
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: amount of video, and once again with your help and
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: the public SELP. I couldn't. I really couldn't put it
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: on one thing, but if I had to, it would
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: be the release of that photograph from the media. We
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: had divers in the warter yesterday that came up negative
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: results the passport. We don't believe that he was planning
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: on doing any traveling at this time. We don't think
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: he at this point our investigation, we don't think he
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: was trying to flee the country.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Person at McDonald's, were they buying? What were they doing
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: at that exact report?
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  Speaker 4: He was an employee at the McDonald's.
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  Speaker 6: But what was sucssfect do?
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  Speaker 4: He was sitting there reading Nadia from.
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  Speaker 1: The New York Post.
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  Speaker 4: I was just hoping to get more details of the
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  Speaker 4: capture itself.
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  Speaker 1: Did he put up a fight?
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  Speaker 6: Did he say anything the cops?
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  Speaker 3: And we've also recorded that he published online anti health
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  Speaker 3: care industry rantings. Can you share with us some of
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: the services that he posted on.
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  Speaker 4: We're still working through his social media. We're going to
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  Speaker 4: do a complete scrub of that. Preliminarily, like I said,
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  Speaker 4: he seems that he has some ill will toward corporate America,
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: but that will all come out as part of our investigation.
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: We're not done here. We're still going to be putting
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: this together. We're still going to be working very hard
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: to bring this to a successful conclusion.
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  Speaker 2: A ghost gun, a silence, sir says, and a handwritten
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: manifesto attacking the healthcare industry sounds like our guy.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: But what else led to this entertainment in Pennsylvania?
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  Speaker 2: Hey, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, our renown psychoalyst out
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: of La, author of deal Breaker. You can see her
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: on Peacock Now, Doctor Bethany. The theory that the assassin
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: meant to scatter toy monopoly money over the dead body.
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  Speaker 1: That tells me a lot about him.
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  Speaker 2: He's got a lot of time sitting in somebody's basement,
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  Speaker 2: thinking and plotting. It almost rules out a day job
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: in my mind. But that said, we know he's white male.
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  Speaker 2: We know he's got money and a guy that can
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  Speaker 2: fund himself cash wise for nearly two weeks in Manhattan.
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  Speaker 2: We also know that while he may have meant to
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  Speaker 2: scatter fake monopoly money all over the dead body, sending
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: a message as if the nine millimeter bullet didn't do that,
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  Speaker 2: he didn't lay the money behind. But he did leave
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  Speaker 2: behind a water bottle with DNA and fingerprints on it.
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  Speaker 2: He left behind a candy or bar wrapper. He left
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  Speaker 2: behind a burner phone. If they can break into that
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  Speaker 2: burner flown burner found, that is going to be a
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  Speaker 2: tremendous source of evidence.
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  Speaker 1: But he forgot to strow the money.
• 9:26
  Speaker 7: Nancy, he forgot it. This guy is obsessional. In the
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  Speaker 7: crime world, you may say methodical. I say obsessional, meaning
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  Speaker 7: he has been thinking about this for a long long time.
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  Speaker 7: When I have a patient like this come into my
• 9:39
  Speaker 7: Beverly Hills office, they usually are enraged at one person
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  Speaker 7: and that is all they can talk about. What they
• 9:46
  Speaker 7: would like to do, what the person's look on their
• 9:49
  Speaker 7: face would be like, you know, Nancy, with obsessional paranoia,
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  Speaker 7: the person the person sort of alleviates their rage by
• 10:00
  Speaker 7: constantly thinking about inflicting harm on the victim. But I
• 10:05
  Speaker 7: also think although he obsessed about this and planned it out,
• 10:08
  Speaker 7: this was his first crime, he did not He did
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  Speaker 7: not think about what it would be like to drop
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  Speaker 7: a candy wrapper, drop the water bottle. He didn't have
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  Speaker 7: time to plan them. He didn't have time to scatter
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  Speaker 7: the monopoly money.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: This was all in his head. You'd never practiced before.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, Tom Smith, former NYPD knows this
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  Speaker 2: area like the back of his hand.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Tom the burner, the cell phone.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's an outside chance it's his actual cell phone.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: But the reports we're hearing is it's a burner phone.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Lauren Colin, Yes, no burner phone, actual phone.
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  Speaker 1: Burner phone, Nancy, Tom Smith. What I'm coming to you
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: about is the phone? What an idiot? I think Bethany's right.
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  Speaker 2: This may be his first time at the rodeo, and
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: you know, like, well, let me think of a good one.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Robert Blake, remember when he and his henchman.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Got bodyguards, got together and murdered bonding Lee Bakley, And.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: They had this extensive to do list.
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  Speaker 2: Very often you can catch the purp because of their
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  Speaker 2: to do list and they're over planning.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Right. But the burner phone, they're really hard to break into.
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  Speaker 2: Do you remember in the Alexan Burrogg trial they had
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: to bring in the Secret Service to crack his phone.
• 11:22
  Speaker 8: Yeah, and I agree with Lauren. It's a burner phone
• 11:26
  Speaker 8: and who knows what's on there? Yeah, he could just
• 11:28
  Speaker 8: use it for simple things. Again, if he plans it
• 11:31
  Speaker 8: out and knows Berner phones and what to use them for.
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  Speaker 8: There may not be a lot on there, but the
• 11:37
  Speaker 8: ability to break in there might not be that difficult
• 11:40
  Speaker 8: because of the low technology that Bernard Phone and Giugi
• 11:43
  Speaker 8: are and the limited amount of information that'll be on there.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: All the surveillance video, all the pictures that we've got
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: so far, talking on the phone just before the murder. Hey,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, and then I'm gonna follow up with
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: renowned defense attorney Jason Oceans.
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  Speaker 1: Dr beth He's not worried. Look at him. He has
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: practiced this over and over and over.
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  Speaker 2: He has been watching the victim like a hawk from
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: the moment the victim got into town. This guy knows
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: the itinerary by heart. He knew that there was a breakfast,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: he knew that that started at eight o'clock. He knew
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: that the victim was going over ahead of time from
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: the Hilton over to the Executive Forum where he was
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: set to speak that morning. Now, all of this surveillance
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: video is from individuals and businesses along the trek.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Check it out.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: So what I'm getting at, Dr Bethany, this guy's cold,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: cool and calculated.
• 12:46
  Speaker 7: This is definitely cold blooded and methodical, to use the
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: panel's term, Nancy. There's one thing this guy forgot to do.
• 12:53
  Speaker 7: He didn't watch the Nancy Grace Show, because if he had,
• 12:56
  Speaker 7: he would have known that there were surveillance camera's all
• 13:00
  Speaker 7: along that street. And that fifteen minute phone call that makes.
• 13:04
  Speaker 6: Me wonder if this is like the DC Sniper where
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: an older, more ruthless person recruited a younger person, or
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: that he's acting in concert with somebody else and that's
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: why he's on that phone.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Hey, Lauren, it was a call fifteen minutes before the shooting,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: not a fifteen minute phone call.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 13:22
  Speaker 9: Correct, The phone call occurred at six thirty am.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: So doctor Bethany. But I agree with what you were saying.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: But he did not ye act.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: For fifteen minutes.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: It's almost as if he's checking in because I'm wondering
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: is he speaking or is he listening?
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I can't tell. Plus his mouth is covered right there.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Jason Ocean is joining me renow defense attorney joining us
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: out of this jurisdiction. Who also, you and I have
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: walked this track before together at Jason Ocean.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: So back around por TV and hl N days Jason.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: The reason I'm wondering if he was listening to something
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: and not talking, I prosecute an arson murder.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: And just before.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: The guy burned his mansion down and tried to fake
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: that his wife died in the fire from smoking eilation,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: he called and checked the weather channel. Jason, I was
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: so happy he called and checked the weather channel to
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: find out if it was going to rain the day
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: he was setting the house on fire. So, for all
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I know, this guy is checking the bus schedule or
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: checking was And now I know he was not on
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: a flight.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I know he was on a bus.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: But every time I'm headed to Legardia, I call or
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I check online to see if my delta flight is delayed. Okay,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: how do I know if he was just checking something
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: or actually speaking to someone. In Bethany's train of thought,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: what if he called someone it was a quick callment,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Hey I'm on the way right now, I'm walking, I
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: just passed Starbucks.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: It could be that it could be anything.
• 15:00
  Speaker 10: I think the theory that, you know, the potential theory
• 15:02
  Speaker 10: that he was directed by someone and that's why he
• 15:04
  Speaker 10: was on the phone is fascinating and also struck by
• 15:08
  Speaker 10: that his lack of knowledge, you know, the overall aspect
• 15:13
  Speaker 10: of the cameras that are everywhere. I think he didn't
• 15:16
  Speaker 10: plan for that. That was the one thing in this
• 15:18
  Speaker 10: seemingly meticulous planning that was that was not done. But
• 15:22
  Speaker 10: that phone call could be very critical if we can
• 15:25
  Speaker 10: find out if it was an incoming or an outgoing call,
• 15:28
  Speaker 10: and the limited technology it has in the ability to
• 15:31
  Speaker 10: bust that phone up.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I got to figure out how the Secret Service actually
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: cracks it.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: You'd think it would be easy, because you know, Cheryl
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: McCollum with me forensic expert.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: When I was researching for my last book, Don't Be
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: a Victim, I found out that about I think it
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: was seventy percent or eighty percent, some crazy astronomical number
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: of people still use the factory code that they had
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: on answer machines.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: They do one two three four is their.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Code, or one one one one, or of course sixty
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: nine sixty nine that's tried and true, or let's see
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: lucky numbers that they come up with, like seven seven
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: seven seven. It's so predictable. But then you got somebody
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: like this who's uh, half smart, and he's probably got
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: some bizarre code on his cell phone.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: The burner.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: You know how long it took them to crack Alex
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Murdock's final They had to bring in the Secret Service
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: to do it.
• 16:32
  Speaker 11: Exactly means you look, that phone call could have been
• 16:35
  Speaker 11: something as simple as he called in seek to work
• 16:37
  Speaker 11: because he knew wouldn't, but make it who you can
• 16:40
  Speaker 11: call it? Six forty five am is a very small
• 16:43
  Speaker 11: group of people, So it could have been he's checking
• 16:45
  Speaker 11: the bus schedule because he's believing that morning and wants to.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Make sure that's smart's smart smart?
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Wait, you just you just really gave me clue. Cheryl,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Who are you going to call at six o'clock in
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: the morning? Not very many people, Okay, go ahead.
• 17:03
  Speaker 11: Because if you call your mom or a sister or
• 17:05
  Speaker 11: something like that, you're going to scare the day like
• 17:07
  Speaker 11: that of them. So it's got to be somebody that's obvious.
• 17:11
  Speaker 11: So you can leave a message for somebody because you
• 17:13
  Speaker 11: know they're not at work yet, you can check the
• 17:15
  Speaker 11: bus schedule. I'm not as interested in that as I
• 17:18
  Speaker 11: am his other messages. What he wrote on the shellcasing
• 17:22
  Speaker 11: the threat before the murder, the fact that he would
• 17:25
  Speaker 11: choose New York and not the victim home state, why
• 17:29
  Speaker 11: not shoot him at any red light going to work?
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, Cheryl, Cheryl, you just gave me another tidbit. Hold on,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I want to tell everybody. At first we were led
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: to believe that the bullets were engraved in some way with.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Deny defend deposed.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: We now know it was written with black sharp which
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: tells me even more. Do you know that you can
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: get a handwriting sample off of that?
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Not that I think police are.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Gonna need a handwriting sample when they've got fingerprints in DNA,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: But you never know what might click with the jury.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: What about it?
• 18:09
  Speaker 11: Chery off one hundred percent? But again, it tells you
• 18:12
  Speaker 11: he took extra time to leave a message on shellcasings.
• 18:17
  Speaker 11: He took extra time to get the monopoly money. That's
• 18:19
  Speaker 11: a message. Shooting him in New York City the morning
• 18:23
  Speaker 11: of that meeting was a message. He could have shot
• 18:26
  Speaker 11: him anytime in his home stated a red light, but
• 18:29
  Speaker 11: he didn't. This is somebody that was a laser focused
• 18:32
  Speaker 11: about his intended target and his motive.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Period Crime Stories with Nancy Grace In the last days,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: the world's single largest fashion retailer, Shine, is trying to
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: get to the bottom of a mystery regarding Luigi Mangioni.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: The seven year old has of course attracted a huge
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: fan base, mostly female supporters. I don't know what they're thinking,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: but now has appeared seemingly modeling for Shine. They say,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: no way, how did this happen? Apparently they don't want
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: to touch in with a ten foot pole, and this
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: is why.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: The suspect was in a McDonald's and was recognized by
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: an employee who then called local police. Responding officers questioned
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: the suspect, who was acting suspiciously and was carrying multiple
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: fraudulent IDs as well as a US passport.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: First, I want to go out to our dive expert.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I'm curious about the search in the lake at Central Park.
• 19:46
  Speaker 12: The New York Police Department dive team is called into
• 19:48
  Speaker 12: action after the discovery of the backpack near Hexherre Playground.
• 19:51
  Speaker 12: The divers are seen trawling a Central Park pond behind
• 19:54
  Speaker 12: an area cordoned off with police tape. Next to but
• 19:56
  Speaker 12: there's the fountain in a body of water known as
• 19:58
  Speaker 12: the lake near Central Park boat House. The NYPD has
• 20:01
  Speaker 12: been searching Central Parks since the gun.
• 20:03
  Speaker 11: Most is keeping.
• 20:06
  Speaker 12: Every kind and the distinctive gun used in the shooting,
• 20:09
  Speaker 12: and it's unclear if officers recovered any evidence from the water.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Joining me special guest Ben Dobin, Virginia Beach Emergency Medical Services,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: also the Dean of Professional Services at Virginia Wesleyan University.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: He is an expert diver and he is actually a
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: dive instructor. Well.
• 20:30
  Speaker 13: I do a lot of police diving also and just
• 20:32
  Speaker 13: into emergency diving. And so I'm looking at this on
• 20:35
  Speaker 13: Google Maps, and it's a relatively closed area, so that
• 20:37
  Speaker 13: makes it a lot easier than having to go into
• 20:39
  Speaker 13: the ocean or you know, a great lake, or the
• 20:41
  Speaker 13: chestbea bay, so it makes it a lot easier for
• 20:44
  Speaker 13: the divers. It's also I just looked it up, it's
• 20:45
  Speaker 13: only four to six feet deep, so that also makes
• 20:48
  Speaker 13: it a lot more simple to do a dive operation.
• 20:50
  Speaker 13: But what they're could be doing is they're could be
• 20:52
  Speaker 13: looking for anything that they can find. And one thing
• 20:55
  Speaker 13: that your listeners and watchers need to understand is anything
• 20:58
  Speaker 13: that exists above water exists underwater. People use it as
• 21:01
  Speaker 13: a garbage dump. We find you name it, bikes, washing machines,
• 21:07
  Speaker 13: shopping carts, so there's a lot of debris. The more
• 21:09
  Speaker 13: people that are around, the more people use it as
• 21:11
  Speaker 13: a dumping ground. But there's two things that I imagine they're
• 21:14
  Speaker 13: looking for just listening to the different news reports and
• 21:16
  Speaker 13: listening to you. They're looking for the firearm obviously, but
• 21:20
  Speaker 13: that telephone also they're looking for that. You know, those
• 21:22
  Speaker 13: are both very small items that are relatively easy to discard,
• 21:27
  Speaker 13: and one of the things that if you find an
• 21:29
  Speaker 13: item like that, you're going to have to recover it.
• 21:31
  Speaker 13: Evidence recovery is the same underwater as it is above
• 21:34
  Speaker 13: water from the police perspective, but the one thing we
• 21:36
  Speaker 13: have to keep in mind is that it's in a
• 21:38
  Speaker 13: different environment. Evidence above water is in air, so all
• 21:42
  Speaker 13: if you do is keep it in the air. But
• 21:43
  Speaker 13: evidence that's recovered underwater you have to recover it with
• 21:46
  Speaker 13: the water. If you take it out of the water,
• 21:48
  Speaker 13: things start to break down relatively quickly. When I'm talking
• 21:51
  Speaker 13: about specifically is fingerprints if you take something out of
• 21:54
  Speaker 13: the water, and fingerprints can last for about a week underwater,
• 21:57
  Speaker 13: so the clock is ticking you remove, whether it's a
• 22:01
  Speaker 13: firearm or the telephone or any piece of evidence, you're
• 22:04
  Speaker 13: going to want to take it out of the water
• 22:07
  Speaker 13: and just bring some of the local water with it
• 22:09
  Speaker 13: and then bring that to your forensics office, and then
• 22:12
  Speaker 13: they're going to drain the water and then do all
• 22:14
  Speaker 13: the magic that they do to get the fingerprints off
• 22:16
  Speaker 13: of it.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, Ben Dobyn is joining me, not only dean Professional
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Services at Virginia Westling and he is a.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Dive instructor and a police diver.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Now, Ben, you just taught me something I didn't know.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Number One, when items are taken out of the water,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: you have to preserve them in preferably the ambiant water
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: the water in which they were in, because the moment
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: they hit the air, it starts to degrade.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: For instance, fingerprints.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, I wanted
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: to talk to you about the gun, but I want
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: to follow up on.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: What Dobrin is telling us.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, prints are preserved underwater because prints, fingerprints are based
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: on the oil in the body oil water.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Get it. You can explain better than me.
• 23:12
  Speaker 14: Go ahead, Yeah, our fingerprints come about as a result
• 23:15
  Speaker 14: of the discharge of the fatty lipids that we have
• 23:18
  Speaker 14: in the pores that surround the print that's left behind. Remember,
• 23:23
  Speaker 14: we don't have fingerprints on the tips of our fingers.
• 23:26
  Speaker 14: We have friction ridges that leave behind fingerprints. So in
• 23:30
  Speaker 14: this particular case, we believe that this is a weapon
• 23:35
  Speaker 14: that has a magazine in it, Nancy. So if you
• 23:38
  Speaker 14: have a magazine, that means that you're going to be
• 23:41
  Speaker 14: pressing down on the rounds as you're loading the magazine in,
• 23:46
  Speaker 14: and also you're touching that surface of the magazine. The
• 23:49
  Speaker 14: magazine is this then fitted into essentially the grip of
• 23:55
  Speaker 14: this weapon, and it's kind of in a protected space there.
• 23:58
  Speaker 14: So what Ben is talking about is right on the money.
• 24:01
  Speaker 14: You have this protected space. If you can keep this
• 24:04
  Speaker 14: in uh in the water that it comes from and
• 24:08
  Speaker 14: take that into the lab, they can get around that
• 24:11
  Speaker 14: weapon pretty quickly and raise any kind of latent prints
• 24:15
  Speaker 14: that might be there.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: You did that so eloquently, Joe Scott, I would have
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: just said, you know, like oil and water don't mix.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm saying here.
• 24:25
  Speaker 14: That one more thing about it, Yeah, you think about
• 24:32
  Speaker 14: you know, Ben had mentioned how densely populated, and all
• 24:35
  Speaker 14: of us have been to Manhattan, how densely populated. This
• 24:39
  Speaker 14: area this guy and pay very close than you what
• 24:42
  Speaker 14: I'm about to say. This guy, if he did this,
• 24:45
  Speaker 14: he ain't the first person to think about dumping a
• 24:47
  Speaker 14: weapon into that lake, all right. So they have a
• 24:51
  Speaker 14: herculean task at hand here dealing around, dealing in this
• 24:57
  Speaker 14: filthy water where they're going to be using their hands,
• 25:01
  Speaker 14: crawling along. How many other weapons are in there? Just
• 25:04
  Speaker 14: because you find a firearm e merged doesn't mean it's
• 25:08
  Speaker 14: the firearm that was used.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Ben.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: I want to follow up with you on this is
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: a great thing to throw at Jason Ocean's when we
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: come back. But this guy did so much planning then,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: But I bet he didn't measure the depth of this
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: lake and has no idea even though it's big, it's
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: twenty acres.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I guarantee you he didn't know that it was just
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: four to six feet deep.
• 25:35
  Speaker 13: And I just found that Google And if you go
• 25:37
  Speaker 13: a little bit further north, it looks like there's the
• 25:39
  Speaker 13: reservoir in the park and that's forty feet deep, So
• 25:42
  Speaker 13: that is significantly deeper. I mean, obviously you can dive that.
• 25:45
  Speaker 13: It just takes a little bit longer to get down
• 25:46
  Speaker 13: and get up. But four to six feet is super easy.
• 25:49
  Speaker 13: If they find something, they can just pop their head
• 25:50
  Speaker 13: out of the water and look at it. And what
• 25:53
  Speaker 13: he just said is we've done training dives in local
• 25:55
  Speaker 13: lakes where we have found multiple guns. What we weren't
• 25:58
  Speaker 13: looking for. I mean, we're just a training dive and
• 26:00
  Speaker 13: we found goods. I found a flint lock pistol. I
• 26:02
  Speaker 13: wasn't looking for one time, because you know, in a
• 26:05
  Speaker 13: populated era, people think, oh, if if I discard a
• 26:07
  Speaker 13: firearm in this lake, nobody will ever find it. Well,
• 26:10
  Speaker 13: you know it's hard to see, but if people are
• 26:12
  Speaker 13: looking for it, they're gonna find it.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 26:14
  Speaker 13: The New York City Police dive team is one of
• 26:15
  Speaker 13: the most respected in the world. If it's in that
• 26:18
  Speaker 13: little area there, they're going to find something.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, the world's largest fashion retailer,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: has lost an investigation after alleged killer assassin Luigi Mangioni's
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: likeness was saying modeling their shirts and one of apparently
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: their advertisements smiling at the camera and sporting not one
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: but two of their button up shirts. Okay, they issued
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: a statement quote The image in question was provided by
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: a third party vendor and was removed immediately upon discovery.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: We have stringent standards for all listings on our platform. Okay,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: bottom line, he made it into an advertisement for Shine.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Why who would have done that?
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: One of his cult followers, and believe me, he's got
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of cult followers. Joining me right now is
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: expert Tom Smith, NYPD, detective thirty years and the star
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: of the gold Shields podcast. Tom again, thank you for
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: being with us. We've learned a lot about the gun.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: At first, it looks like it's been manipulated with a
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: homemade silencer on it. We are now understanding that is
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: not a homemade silencer.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: That this is a weapon that is often used.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: By veterinarians to put down that's a nice word for it, animals.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: The magazine is in the grip. And when many people
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: thought that it.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Was jamming and he was clearing it after each shot,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: which I thought he did really calmly and methodically, we
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: now know it may be a bolt action that has
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: to be manually cycled after each shot.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: That changes things. Tom Smith, Yes, it.
• 28:18
  Speaker 8: Does, because now he knows he's proficient in that weapon,
• 28:21
  Speaker 8: knowing every time he fires it he's going to have
• 28:23
  Speaker 8: to chamber around and if I could show you real quick,
• 28:26
  Speaker 8: this is a glock, not the same weapon that was used,
• 28:30
  Speaker 8: but but similar functioning. Every time he fires that weapon,
• 28:34
  Speaker 8: he'd have to click it like this in order to
• 28:36
  Speaker 8: chamber around to fire the next round. And the thing
• 28:39
  Speaker 8: about him is he knows the weapon because he knows
• 28:42
  Speaker 8: that's coming. It's not a surprise to him. So he
• 28:44
  Speaker 8: fires around, has to clear it, fire another round, clear
• 28:48
  Speaker 8: it to chamber around each time. And he knows the weapon,
• 28:52
  Speaker 8: and he knows that he's coming and has to do that,
• 28:55
  Speaker 8: and that's why he stays kind of calm. Any other
• 28:58
  Speaker 8: criminal I've ever dealt with in New York City, what's
• 29:02
  Speaker 8: a weapons jams, they throw it away, they run. He
• 29:05
  Speaker 8: knows exactly how this weapon is being used.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, for once, the movie's got it right, Tom Smith,
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: because in the movies you always see the person jam
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: the weapon and they just throw it or they throw
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: it at the person they're shooting at. Here when you
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: look at the video, he's walking toward the victim. I
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: guarantee you, Tom Smith, this guy practiced probably at a
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: gun range.
• 29:31
  Speaker 8: Oh yeah, and you probably have practiced with that weapon,
• 29:33
  Speaker 8: because like I said, there's a big difference when you're
• 29:36
  Speaker 8: viewing this, whether someone's panicking or anticipating the movement he's doing.
• 29:41
  Speaker 8: He knows what he has to do to fire that weapon.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: You know, I want you to explain one more time
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: for novices out there about the bolt action. We now
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: don't believe the gun was jamming everybody. We believe it
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: was a bolt action that has to be manually recycled
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: after every shot. Could you explain that and demonstrate one
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: more time please, Tom.
• 30:03
  Speaker 8: Yeah, this is a nine millimeter weapon and the magazine
• 30:07
  Speaker 8: port is in here just like you mentioned, it's at
• 30:10
  Speaker 8: the bottom of the handle. So once a round is fired,
• 30:12
  Speaker 8: he has to manually clear that round to chamber another
• 30:16
  Speaker 8: round in order to fire it. He'll fire it again
• 30:19
  Speaker 8: and do the same thing over and over again. So,
• 30:21
  Speaker 8: like I said, he's very aware of how that gun
• 30:24
  Speaker 8: he's used and what he used to do to fire.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: You know another issue, Tom Smith, and I'm going to bring.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Everybody back in in just a second, But Tom, another
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: feature of this particular gun that is traditionally used by
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: veterinarians to put down animals is it has a.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Very quiet shot, very quiet shot.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: And the gun we're talking about has a long as
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: we saw. Could you hold yours up again as a
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: very long barrel like that? This one even seemed a
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: little bit longer than yours. And that can be confused
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: because it looks like a silencer, but it's not.
• 31:09
  Speaker 8: It's a long weapon and easier to aim because you
• 31:14
  Speaker 8: have more of an angle of your target in front
• 31:17
  Speaker 8: of you. So, like I said, he is very aware
• 31:19
  Speaker 8: of how this weapon is used and what it needs
• 31:22
  Speaker 8: to do to fight.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Is this gun is a specialized gun.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: This guy practiced and practiced, and he had everything planned out.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: You know, he practiced with the murder weapon.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: He didn't just trot over to Connecticut and buy a
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: gun and then use it the next day. That did
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: not happen. Think of the mindset here. This is a
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: gun he brought with him on a bus.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Didn't got on a.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Plane because he couldn't get through Tsa with a gun
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: for Pete's sake. And the airlines know who you are,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: they have your picture, they have you every three feet
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: in the airport.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: He didn't want that. He wanted to travel with his gun.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: What criminal that's practiced and practiced and planned and plan
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: was to use an aligen gun.
• 32:05
  Speaker 8: Well, it's hard to trace. That's why if you're using
• 32:09
  Speaker 8: a normal weapon with a serial number and so forth,
• 32:11
  Speaker 8: it's easily traced, whether you find it in a month
• 32:14
  Speaker 8: or a year. This we have no idea whether there's
• 32:18
  Speaker 8: any serial numbers on it, whether there's any distinguishing markings
• 32:21
  Speaker 8: on it. So it could be very benign in the
• 32:25
  Speaker 8: in identifying it, and that's why he paid.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: What I'm saying, Doctor Bethany Marshall, is that this guy
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: did not just go into a gun shop and buy
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: the gun just before the murder. If he planned this
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: methodically to get to Manhattan and to carry out this crime,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: staking out the scene the moment he got there November
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: twenty four to ten pm, he didn't go to bed.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: He went to this location where the forum was going
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: to be held. He didn't buy a new gun. I
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: don't think. I think he brought his preferred weapon with
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: him after practicing for hours on end.
• 33:02
  Speaker 7: This guy is upper middle class. This guy has money,
• 33:05
  Speaker 7: He has disposable money, and he had access to a
• 33:08
  Speaker 7: weapon in a professional environment. This is not somebody who
• 33:11
  Speaker 7: goes to a gun shop with a fake ID and
• 33:14
  Speaker 7: tries to skip the background check and gets a gun.
• 33:18
  Speaker 7: This is a man who knows this weapon. This is
• 33:22
  Speaker 7: also a man who has researched where this CEO is
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: going to be.
• 33:26
  Speaker 15: Early reports on the shooting of Brian Thompson pointed to
• 33:29
  Speaker 15: a silencer being used or a modern version of a
• 33:32
  Speaker 15: rare World War two gun. The investigators found themselves looking
• 33:37
  Speaker 15: into a Connecticut gun store they believe may have sold
• 33:40
  Speaker 15: the weapon. That lead did not pan out, but now
• 33:43
  Speaker 15: Chief Detective Joseph Kenny says they are looking into the
• 33:46
  Speaker 15: use of a veterinary gun being used as the murder weapon.
• 33:49
  Speaker 15: Kenny says the weapon is normally used on farms and
• 33:52
  Speaker 15: ranches when an animal needs to be put down. The
• 33:55
  Speaker 15: animal can be shot with this type of weapon that
• 33:58
  Speaker 15: doesn't cause a large noise.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: The twenty six year old taking into custody on gun
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: charges apparently had a ghost gun, a silencer, multiple fake IDs,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: and a hand written manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: It's not just this moment.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: This moment is the culmination of thousands of law enforcement
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: man hours like this.
• 34:24
  Speaker 16: Amid speculation that the shooter traveled to New York on
• 34:27
  Speaker 16: a bus that left from Atlanta, NYPD officers have traveled
• 34:31
  Speaker 16: south for part of their investigation. APD confirmed through a
• 34:34
  Speaker 16: statement that its officers are assisting the NYPD investigators, whom
• 34:39
  Speaker 16: arrived in Atlanta on Saturday. Sources say they are searching
• 34:43
  Speaker 16: through video from the bus station in town and to
• 34:46
  Speaker 16: others along the route to New York City. Officers are
• 34:49
  Speaker 16: working to find a name from tickets purchased for a
• 34:52
  Speaker 16: November twenty fourth Greyhound trip.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: You notice the investigative reporter said, looking for a name.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I guarantee you it's not going to be his name.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Let me just say that.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: The security and verification procedures at the bus station a
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: lot less stringent than it is at the airport. He
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: could have gone in with any fake ID and gotten
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: a bus ticket under a fake name, just like he
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: had a fake ID that he got out of Jersey,
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: just like he used a fake ID when he checked
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: into that youth hostel. And speaking of the youth hostel,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Lauren Colin joining then investigative reporter and start a primetime
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: crime on YouTube, Lauren, much was made of him flirting
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: with the receptionist.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: That's not what happened.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: We now know that to check into that hostile and
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: it's not just at a hostile that's where they're doing it.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Fancy hotels too. When they say, you know, we need
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: some ID look at them. The next time they ask you.
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: That, they look back up at your face. Right.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, there was a little flirtation. You can see
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: him smiling right there. That's about ten thousand dollars worth
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: of orthodontia on that mouth.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Right there.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: That's another can of worms, Lauren. So I don't know
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: that the clerk was flirting with him. She very well
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: may have said, pulled down your mask.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I got to make an ID. I mean, this is
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: not the rints, okay, right right, and you're correct, Nancy.
• 36:16
  Speaker 9: I did visit the hostel, and everybody working there was friendly,
• 36:21
  Speaker 9: not overly friendly. Something I noticed was that there were
• 36:25
  Speaker 9: multiple cameras throughout the lobby of the hostele. There were
• 36:29
  Speaker 9: cameras outside of the hostel as well. So my understanding
• 36:33
  Speaker 9: is they most likely have multiple angles of this guy,
• 36:37
  Speaker 9: of this shooter. I also visited the businesses surrounding the hostel.
• 36:42
  Speaker 9: I went inside to a local bodega. I went inside
• 36:45
  Speaker 9: to a dunkin Donuts and they informed me that they
• 36:48
  Speaker 9: not do any sort of talking about what they know
• 36:51
  Speaker 9: to anyone, but the NYPD, but also that they turned
• 36:54
  Speaker 9: over footage as well. So I believe that NYPD is
• 36:59
  Speaker 9: going through all of the footage they have right now, which, look,
• 37:02
  Speaker 9: it's gonna take some time. This is not gonna happen overnight,
• 37:05
  Speaker 9: but I think there's gonna be a lot more and
• 37:08
  Speaker 9: stills being released of this guy and what he did
• 37:11
  Speaker 9: during his time in New York before the shooting.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, let's look at this guy.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Who is he? Based on everything we know right.
• 37:20
  Speaker 11: Now, Nancy, I think one thing that's imperative that everybody's
• 37:24
  Speaker 11: not mentioning is when you talk to the clerk at
• 37:26
  Speaker 11: the hostel. If this were my case, the first thing
• 37:29
  Speaker 11: I would have asked her is does he have an accent?
• 37:32
  Speaker 11: And that's why I think again they are focused on Atlanta.
• 37:36
  Speaker 11: They know where the bus originated, they know what he
• 37:39
  Speaker 11: sounds like. If he's from here, they're gonna know it.
• 37:42
  Speaker 11: The other thing about that weapon, remember we have three words,
• 37:47
  Speaker 11: which means three possible shellcases. So that gun either jams
• 37:52
  Speaker 11: and we have an unspent or we have three scent
• 37:55
  Speaker 11: which means he missed one.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Possibly a ghost gun, a style, sir, fake IDs and
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: a handwritten manifesto attacking the healthcare industry.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Sounds like our guy.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: But what else led to this detainment in Pennsylvania To
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall joining us for now, psychoanalyst Way and
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: doctor Bethany, what's your take on it?
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Who is he?
• 38:22
  Speaker 7: Nancy? This guy is upper middle class, he's educated. He
• 38:26
  Speaker 7: knew to do this hit at the healthcare conference because
• 38:30
  Speaker 7: he's sending a message. If he did it at a
• 38:32
  Speaker 7: traffic stop or at the victim's home, it would not
• 38:35
  Speaker 7: send the message. The scribbling on the ammunition he caught
• 38:42
  Speaker 7: that from researching internal documents at insurance companies and citing
• 38:47
  Speaker 7: words that employees or claims processors use to deny claims.
• 38:54
  Speaker 7: I am going to guess that he had a family
• 38:56
  Speaker 7: member who has denied care and because of that denied care,
• 39:01
  Speaker 7: the family member died and he cannot get over it.
• 39:04
  Speaker 7: So this is Although he looks like a street thug
• 39:07
  Speaker 7: on you know, at first glance, he is not.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: He's got a square chin, perfect teeth, wax between the eyebrows,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: eyes going slightly down at the outer edges. He can
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: change a lot, but there are some things he can't change,
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: like his fingerprints and DNA Joe Scott.
• 39:31
  Speaker 14: Yep, you're absolutely right. Those are unique to him, Nancy.
• 39:35
  Speaker 14: And here's one other thing. I did a little digging
• 39:37
  Speaker 14: one of this weapon that they keep referring to. That's
• 39:40
  Speaker 14: the veterinarian euthanasia weapon. They believe might be a what's
• 39:44
  Speaker 14: referred to as a Station six brand weapon. My research
• 39:49
  Speaker 14: revealed that there are essentially, I think either four or
• 39:53
  Speaker 14: five locations in the metro area where these can be
• 39:58
  Speaker 14: specifically purchased. And I think that if they believe that
• 40:02
  Speaker 14: that's what this is and that he transported it, I
• 40:05
  Speaker 14: think you're on the money here. Relative to getting on
• 40:07
  Speaker 14: a bus with this thing. He may have picked it
• 40:10
  Speaker 14: up down there at some point in time. And it's
• 40:13
  Speaker 14: not a very efficient weapon for doing the task that
• 40:16
  Speaker 14: he was trying to do, so I don't know, maybe
• 40:19
  Speaker 14: he was trying to you know, he's not going to
• 40:21
  Speaker 14: draw attention to himself, like when you buy a suppressor
• 40:25
  Speaker 14: separately from a weapon, perhaps, and it's not very efficient
• 40:30
  Speaker 14: because you lose your site picture every time you have
• 40:34
  Speaker 14: to rotate that bolt on the back of that weapon,
• 40:36
  Speaker 14: which is what he's doing. He's spending it. I think
• 40:40
  Speaker 14: that many of the answers that we're looking for are
• 40:43
  Speaker 14: probably going to rest as well. And this is something
• 40:46
  Speaker 14: that we will hear a lot about, I believe, with
• 40:49
  Speaker 14: United Healthcare and their chief security officer, who was actually
• 40:53
  Speaker 14: hired back in August of twenty twenty three. I want
• 40:56
  Speaker 14: to know what she knows. I want to know what
• 40:59
  Speaker 14: her assets know within that business. Are there letters that
• 41:02
  Speaker 14: have been written, are their lawsuits that have been filed
• 41:06
  Speaker 14: relative to what doctor Bethany mentioned about healthcare claims that
• 41:11
  Speaker 14: may have been blown off, or maybe they didn't receive
• 41:14
  Speaker 14: what they wanted. But trust me, the security apparatus within
• 41:17
  Speaker 14: that company is going to be working on.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Shine advertisement or no shine advertisement.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I don't care how it.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Happened, but it happened, And I wonder how his widow
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: and her two boys feel about this seeing his face
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: smiling in an advertisement. We wait as justice unfolds in
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: this case. Nancy Gray signing off goodbye,