Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Parasocial Relationships With Princess Etch | The Christian Reeve Podcast #229

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Parasocial Relationships With Princess Etch | The Christian Reeve Podcast #229 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reid
• 0:03
  Podcast. Today I have the wonderful
• 0:05
  Princess Edge returning to the show and we're going to discuss
• 0:08
  parasocial relationships. Now this is a bit random.
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  I know my audience well, I know they were expecting it.
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  But like for anyone that just wasn't aware like well, why?
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  Why has he randomly picked this topic?
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  There is a reason behind this. So I'm going to give a bit of a
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  a sort of a brief and then we'll we'll jump straight into this.
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  So I've had bad experiences. I know Princess Etch has had bad
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  experiences and I want to read this statement that you sort of
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  wrote a few weeks back or a month back now.
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  And I've gotten Princess Etch's permission to to say this
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  because I wasn't sure if it was appropriate.
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  But it's it's public. So I suppose it is.
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  But yeah, this is this is the message.
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  It is with a heavy heart that I have decided I will no longer be
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  reciprocally following stream supporters back and I will no
• 1:04
  longer respond to non business conversations in Tiktok DMS.
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  Over the last year, I've had problems with men who have
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  leveraged their support during my streams and used it to send
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  me inappropriate and uncomfortable messages in my Dms
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  or cross boundaries that the rest of you know not to cross.
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  As a fledgling streamer who has had a rocky year, I've been
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  quietly abetting certain members of the community because they
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  have been some of my top donors during various streams.
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  This ends now. I will no longer enable
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  inappropriate behavior towards me, even if that means a drop in
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  subscribers or donors. Nobody is ever obligated to
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  financially contribute to my streams, but let me be
• 1:47
  abundantly clear. Just because you donate in my
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  streams, it does not entit you to a level of intimacy with me,
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  any level of intimacy with me. I am incredibly grateful for
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  every single one of you who has been a part of my growing
• 2:01
  Kingdom. I've become genuine friends with
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  a lot of you too, regardless of donation amounts.
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  It is my hope that for those who donate, they do so because they
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  value in my live streams. They see value in my live
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  streams. Sorry, in my art and in my
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  journey. But please, if you are donating
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  because you want to buy a relationship with me, be it
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  romantic or platonic, I am not for sale.
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  On a final note, I have blocked the people I had issues with and
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  will not be revealing their usernames.
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  They did not do anything illegal.
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  So please do not go looking to pick up pigs folks for me.
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  Thank you. OK.
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  So I saw like the beginning of this message about a few months
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  back. Today was the first time I,
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  like, sat down and picked it apart.
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  And there's just so much to kind of to unpack here.
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  One thing I want to jump on straight away is is just that
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  the fact that you've had like a lot of inappropriate advances
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  from, like, creepy ass men on the Internet, which yeah, any
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  lady on the Internet doing any kind of content is going to have
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  stories. Unfortunately this is just.
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  It just comes with the territory.
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  It's an occupational hazard. Yeah, right.
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  And I think it's especially sad for yourself because what you're
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  presenting is very much a family friendly like Brand.
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  And we've spoken about this a little bit before on on shows
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  prior to this, but it kind of just makes it that much more sad
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  because it's like these people, you know, they see what's being
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  presented and they choose to, you know, ignore all of that and
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  and be creepy. And then also, I suppose this
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  speaks and we set this off camera to this idea of
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  entitlement like, oh, well, I've paid you money, therefore I am,
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  you know, this means I should get this.
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  And it's like, you know, what you said here.
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  Just because you donate in my streams, it does not entitle you
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  to any level of intimacy with me.
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  I'll add to this, if you donate in a stream, whoever you are, it
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  doesn't entitle you to anything. Period.
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  It's up. It's up to you whether you
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  choose to donate or not. I make this abundantly clear in
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  my community. Like, I I mean, it doesn't
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  really appear. It doesn't really.
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  This is the thing, and you've said this in your statement as
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  well. And and my community knows this
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  doesn't apply to them because they're all lovely, wonderful
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  people. They would never put me in a
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  position, yeah. Most people are absolutely
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  great. Yep, thanks.
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  That's The thing is it will be the people that kind of come in,
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  they glance, maybe they contribute a little bit and then
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  once they've done that, they feel they're entitled to XY&Z.
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  I've had this more on on TikTok to be honest, because obviously
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  we both operate on different platforms, but this is one of
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  the biggest platforms we operate on because of the reach.
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  And unfortunately, you get a lot of this on that app and it's
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  difficult navigating it, I think because people kind of come in
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  with expectations, which I think that comes from from two things.
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  It comes from partly like a generational thing, like, I
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  don't know, the younger generation in my experience
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  seems to have this sense of entitlement or that there's this
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  Internet age entitlement thing like, you know, you click, you
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  get, you get back. It's like you forget that you're
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  dealing with a person. And the other element to it is
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  there are so many creators I see or just people on these apps
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  that will do anything for money or just entertainment value.
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  I don't know. It's odd when you come across
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  people like myself and yourself where we're trying to do
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  something, which is what is it? Business, business stuff.
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  So for you it's you know, promoting your artwork and and
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  then selling that element and and you know doing commissions
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  for people and stuff is there's a range of things under that
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  umbrella. For me, it's promotion of my
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  podcast and my Patreon and you know joining me on the journey
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  as far as like my acting and everything like the music
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  streams, whatever, like, but we both do and I've made this clear
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  to my audience. They know this.
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  But for anyone new coming in, it's like they can't get their
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  head around this idea that you you aren't just there for the
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  money, you aren't just there to just do whatever you're told,
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  you know? And I get this like really good.
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  Quick example is when I do music streams every now and again you
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  get people come in that are just like playlists do this.
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  Why aren't you doing this? Yep, I actually I force people
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  to pay if they want to for music.
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  I call them jukebox requests because I I had the same issue
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  with people who were just like, can you play the song?
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  And it's like, do I look like a DJ?
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  I'm an artist. Do you want to pay me to be a
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  DJ? Sure, I'll play your song, but
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  even that is hairy area because I can't vet the song in advance.
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  So I trust my moderators to like, help me with determining
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  like is the song good? But it's it's an infrequent
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  thing, but it's always awesome when somebody tries to like.
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  And to sort themselves in that way into a stream to just be
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  like, all right, you have permission to do that, but you
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  gotta pay. Like, I'm gonna put a pay wall
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  behind it and then 99% of people are like, no, that's not right.
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  That's the thing. I've always used you as an
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  example of someone who's doing it right.
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  Because you know, you do get a lot of requests.
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  And when you do those live streams, I mean, we've spoken
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  about this before, but like you get a lot of the same requests
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  to be like, oh, can you please draw me, SpongeBob, can you
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  please draw me? I don't know, whatever.
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  The Joker, like just popular characters and your core
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  community have seen that like 1000 times.
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  And you know, and the people, the new people coming in, you
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  know, maybe they don't know that, you know, it's the same as
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  like me getting told. I, you know, the running joke is
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  I look like half Hollywood. Like apparently I look like
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  anywhere from 50 to 80 different actors at any one time.
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  And you know, most of the time I'm just sarcastic in my
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  response to it. A lot of the time I ignore it
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  and people get funny that why aren't you responding?
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  And then every once in a while I'll respond and I'll be like,
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  imagine being told that you look like this person every single
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  day of your entire life and being told you should be this
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  person, you should be the second coming of this person.
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  You should just do cosplays of this person all the time.
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  It's like these demands get really frustrating after a while
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  and. Yeah, they do get taxing for
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  sure, right. And and it's like, so you you
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  think of a fair way to deal with that.
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  And in your case it's like okay, you want this drawing give me
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  and you'll get it and that that's a transaction however you
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  want to look at it. And I think that's very fair.
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  You give a rose okay, great. I'm going to spend the next
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  whatever it is, hour, half an hour making this drawing for
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  you. That's really cool.
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  You know that's that's a cool while you're doing it.
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  And my core community totally gets it too because they
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  understand that for me, I've drawn Stitch 5 billion times on
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  that sketch and it's fun to draw stitch.
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  But yeah, after 4,900,000,000 times it kind of gets trying and
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  and my like you say my audience has seen it a million times.
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  So I I try to I basically have essentially pay walled it in
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  some capacity usually and. And I'm very blunt about him.
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  Like, listen, I pay you all this.
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  If you want stitch, you can make it happen, but it's going to
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  cost you X. And every now and then someone
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  bites. And when they bite, I'm happy to
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  do it. And my core audience, they
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  totally get it because at the end of the day, they want to
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  make sure that I'm supported as well.
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  They understand that donations keep me streaming, so it's a win
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  win for everyone, like. I think if I did it for free on
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  every single live stream, my core audience would start
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  feeling a little bit like, yeah, and I wouldn't blame them
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  because if I were tuning into somebody's stream and they did
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  the same thing every single time, I, I think it could start
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  feeling a little bit monotonous, so.
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  So it's tricky though. It's tricky though to to draw
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  those lines and navigate them to think about.
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  Like, how do I provide value for the newbies and the repeat
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  viewers? Yeah, and.
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  And I'll add to that as well. Like, I think you touched on a
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  really good point about the fact that, like, at the end of the
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  day, it's got to be interesting for for the creator, too, you
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  know? Like, sometimes I'll flat out
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  refuse to play certain songs because I just don't like the
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  band. I don't like the song.
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  I don't want to imagine that. Yeah, you know.
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  I know we're allowed to have preferences.
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  What? You know, and it's and it's
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  almost like this weird, like like outrage, which again, I
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  never get this from my core community.
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  It's always just randoms who come in and like, and I think
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  this speaks to what I was saying before about the sense of
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  entitlement. There's this like, weird thing
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  that exists where it's like what you won't do what I say, well,
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  you're not getting this gift then or you're not getting a
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  follow or you're not getting my attention.
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  It's like, okay. I mean, are you 5 years old?
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  Like what is this SO? So highly of your followership
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  that I I owe you. Like I always say, dance monkey
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  dance like, oh, you want me to dance monkey dance like, but
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  it's it's just, it's just like the the, the, the audacity of
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  certain people that they think that they have such a hold over
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  you that they can do that, that they can demand that of you.
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  I'll give you a really random example that just came to mind.
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  So in the wrestling industry, I'm a big wrestling fan, There's
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  this professional wrestler called Rob Van Dam, and he's,
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  he's been in the industry a long time.
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  And he came into the WWF or WWE in the early 2000s, and he'd
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  previously he'd been there once or twice, but he'd never really
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  properly been there at that point.
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  And so he was coming new into this company, the competition
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  had closed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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  Anyway it comes, there's like an upcoming tour, an international
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  tour, And typically when these wrestlers go on a tour, they
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  tend to go together, They go on a plane, whatever.
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  And Rob Van Damme had decided I'm not going to go on this
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  tour. He's like, you know, I want to
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  spend time with with my family. You know, he was waiting for
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  time off, you know, etcetera. He's not going to go.
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  And then he said that it started to become this thing where like
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  his boss and all the people working, like the higher ups
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  were like, oh, well, I appreciate, you know, they
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  responsibly, I appreciate your, your opinion on this.
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  But, you know, I think you're going to see that this is a
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  really amazing opportunity and you're really going to enjoy
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  this. And he's like, hey, listen, I'm
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  telling you, I'm not going to be there.
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  And he had to. And he and he started to get
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  like, and he's not a guy that gets annoyed.
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  Like, he's very, like Mr. Zen kind of guy.
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  But he just kept getting really, really annoyed because it kept
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  escalating every time he'd come into the room, just kept getting
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  told like, oh, and you're not going to be there, are you?
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  Or you should consider coming. And he's just like, listen, you
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  don't have a hold over me. It's like, I don't care.
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  Fire me, fine me, suspend me, whatever.
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  You will not see me on that plane.
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  I am not going there. And in a similar spirit, I see
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  it here. It's like, hey, listen, if you
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  don't want to follow me, if you get annoyed at me, you want to
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  trash me. You want to say I'm unfair, you
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  want to say this, that and the other fine.
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  But I'm not doing this thing just because you told me.
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  If I do it, it will be because I think this would be cool for the
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  stream. This would be cool for my
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  viewers. This is a fun thing.
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  This is the thing I want to do. And I think this speaks to the
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  wider point about this show. Every time you've been on the
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  show before, we've had a lot of fun.
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  We've been talking our latest projects, we've been going back
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  and forth, talking business, whatever.
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  This is a topic I never really wanted to have to talk about,
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  but I think it's an important topic to explore because we both
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  have issues with this over the years.
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  Plus, and here's the interesting thing as well, there's like this
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  wider kind of, I don't know, like mindset and approach with
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  regards to how you interact with your fans that I'd never even
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  considered before. I'm very interested to hear the
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  research you've done for this. So when I started sitting down
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  and do my research for this, I realized like, wow, this is so
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  much. I just didn't know before and I
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  wanted to just kind of run through this and and get your
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  reaction as well. Yeah, so we'll run through the
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  definitions according to very well mind.
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  A parasocial relationship is A1 sided relationship that a media
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  user engages in with a media persona.
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  Media users can form parasocial relationships with celebrities,
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  live action, fictional characters, social media
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  influences. I hate that word.
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  Animated characters and any other kind of figure they
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  encounter through media including movies, TV shows,
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  podcasts, radio talk shows, or social media platforms such as
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  Twitter, Instagram or TikTok. While the research on parasocial
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  relationships typically focus on friendship, like bonds between a
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  media user and a favored media persona, media users may also
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  form negative parasocial relationships and even romantic
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  parasocial relationships with different media figures.
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  This original concept was founded in 1956, and here's
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  something really right It's been around a long time, and here's
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  something really interesting that I didn't know this There
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  are different types of parasocial relationships.
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  Obviously, we've covered just a few there.
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  Parasocial relationships can exist in a number of different
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  forms. Often, these different forms may
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  represent different stages of the type of relationship.
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  So you've got parasocial interactions and parasocial
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  attachments. So again, I'll run through these
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  and then we'll talk about it at the end.
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  Parasocial interactions are defined as the approximation of
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  conversational give and take between a media user and a media
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  persona. Unlike parasocial relationships
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  which extend beyond the single media interaction and
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  psychologically operate much like a real life relationship,
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  parasocial interactions take place exclusively while
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  interacting with a persona via media and psychologically
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  resemble real life face to face interactions.
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  Now anyone who listening to this might be like what are you all
• 16:26
  about? So I have an example.
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  If you feel like you're one of the gang while watching the
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  characters from Friends spend time together, you're
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  experiencing A parasocial interaction.
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  If you continue to think about one or more members of the show
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  afterwards, or if you reference their behavior on the show as if
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  there's someone you know, you formed a parasocial relationship
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  with that character, right? I'd never even thought about
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  this, but it's true. Like as though like they're a
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  real part of your life. In addition, parasocial
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  attachments refers to the concept of parasocial
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  connections that have been extended by This is by a media
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  psychologist GAIL Stu, I believe to include personal attachments.
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  So, based on the theory of attachment originated by Bond B,
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  which describes the deep bonds formed between caregivers and
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  children as well as between romantic partners, parasocial
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  attachments happen when a media persona becomes a source of
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  comfort, a sense of like they provide security and a safe
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  haven. So like parasocial relationships
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  and interactions, parasocial attachments functions similarly
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  to attachments in real life, and therefore an independent
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  component of parasocial attachments is proximity,
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  proximity, seeking, and I'll just skip through some of this.
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  So there's also this concept of a parasocial breakup.
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  Research has found that people respond to the loss of a
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  parasocial relationship in ways that are similar to the loss of
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  a social relationship. For example, when the TV show
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  Friends ended, those were the strongest power social
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  relationships with one of the characters expressed the most
• 18:19
  distressed. So there's a there's a lot to
• 18:23
  unpack here. But basically what I kind of
• 18:25
  learned from it is that it's 1 sided.
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  And here's something, OK, I'm I'm going to kind of play
• 18:35
  devil's advocate for a second. When I see that people feel that
• 18:41
  they know you, I think that's not an unreasonable kind of
• 18:47
  feeling to have because you're giving them like a window into
• 18:52
  your life, so to speak. However, you're only showing
• 18:56
  like 1 aspect of yourself. You're showing them one kind of
• 19:02
  side of yourself, one layer of yourself.
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  Like for instance, I know a little bit about you in person,
• 19:07
  in private, right? Not an expert on you, but I know
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  a little bit and you know a little bit about myself and it's
• 19:13
  but that's private. That's our private life.
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  That's not for public consumption and that's our own
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  choice that we've decided to kind of function in that way.
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  Now some people might say, Oh well, aren't you hiding
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  something? And it's like, no, everyone is
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  a, entitled to a private life. B.
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  If you really think about it, it's not that strange because
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  everyone you meet in life has a different connection with you.
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  You've got your friends and your family who know you best, your
• 19:42
  lover, whatever. But then you've got
• 19:44
  acquaintances. You've got random people.
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  You're not going to tell them everything you know.
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  You get told sometimes. Don't tell people at work
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  everything because they're not your friends for this exact
• 19:55
  reason. I agree.
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  Another thing, Yeah. First off, I I definitely agree.
• 20:01
  I have my friends that I talk shop with.
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  I've got my friends that I talk relationships with, I've got.
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  I think that we all have those delineations between the amount
• 20:11
  of different types of intimacy we have in conversation with
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  them. Some know, some I've known since
• 20:16
  my childhood, and so they just inherently know a lot about that
• 20:19
  chapter of my life. Others will never know anything
• 20:21
  about that chapter in my life. And I I think one thing that I
• 20:26
  found really curious about the definitions you gave about
• 20:29
  parasocial relationships there is that you said it was between
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  a media user and a persona. And I think that, yes, I think
• 20:38
  that's like a really important word to emphasize.
• 20:41
  A Princess etch is a facet of who I am.
• 20:45
  It's an authentic facet. But like you say, it's like a
• 20:48
  side of me. And so people might liken
• 20:53
  themselves to that side of me. And that's very flattering.
• 20:56
  And I hope that they enjoy the time they spend with me on
• 20:58
  streams. But they only know what I
• 21:02
  perform. They know what I'm comfortable
• 21:05
  saying in front of a camera that's rolling.
• 21:08
  They don't know Jane off camera. Jane off camera is very similar
• 21:13
  to Princess Edge, but she's inherently different.
• 21:16
  And so I think from my perspective, and I, I bet you
• 21:20
  can relate as well, I think it's inherently difficult to form
• 21:26
  genuine friendships with with people who view my streams,
• 21:32
  because I know that no matter what, I'm always sharing the,
• 21:36
  like, business professional version of me.
• 21:38
  So, like, in some ways it's kind of like befriending a coworker
• 21:42
  in a way, because it's me being on my Sunday best, putting on
• 21:46
  the performance on the clock. So I'm fine with having
• 21:51
  coworkers. That's nice, someone to talk
• 21:53
  with at the water cooler, That's all great.
• 21:56
  But the problem comes from transitioning that type of, I'll
• 22:02
  say, like parasocial relationship, where maybe I do
• 22:06
  start kind of like befriending or making acquaintances with
• 22:10
  people who might be, like my moderators or longtime viewers
• 22:14
  who have been, like, conversing pretty extensively in streams.
• 22:19
  The the the problem comes from from going over that bridge of
• 22:23
  like, it's kind of awkward. Like, you know, if you have a
• 22:25
  job and you're working with your coworkers, sometimes you get to
• 22:30
  that point where you have a heart to heart with them and
• 22:32
  realize, wow, we could actually be friends.
• 22:34
  But like, most of the time you don't.
• 22:36
  And that's fine. And that is also completely OK.
• 22:41
  And it's it's awkward if you have a coworker that really
• 22:46
  wants to have the heart to heart with you and you're like I don't
• 22:50
  this is a good idea. I you know, I'm trying to keep
• 22:53
  my work focused and and it's the same thing.
• 22:56
  Like you know, you maybe don't want to date people that are
• 22:59
  your Co workers and so there's a lot of reasons why you don't
• 23:03
  want to do those things. You don't want to poop or you
• 23:06
  eat. I like how you clean that up,
• 23:09
  because in my head I was thinking like the yeah anyway,
• 23:12
  but you cleaned it up and made it like lovely impressions.
• 23:16
  It's it's a tricky thing to navigate.
• 23:18
  It's not possible to befriend people who tuned into your
• 23:22
  streams, but I feel like I should say that I have to be
• 23:27
  careful, more so than when meeting people on what else they
• 23:32
  more of like an even playing field.
• 23:34
  Because at the end of the day, like when I'm streaming, I'm the
• 23:36
  only one with the microphone, the spotlight is constantly on
• 23:39
  me, so there's a dynamic that doesn't exist.
• 23:42
  When you go out to a random event and you meet someone else
• 23:44
  where you're both just random people attending an event.
• 23:48
  It's a it's a completely different like starting point to
• 23:51
  to start from when you when you meet a person.
• 23:53
  And it's it's it's just, you know I have to be mindful for a
• 23:57
  number of reasons. This is something I worry about.
• 23:59
  Not only to to protect me and make sure that like everything
• 24:02
  is above board, but also like favoritism can get tricky.
• 24:09
  It can get really. Like I know in my community
• 24:16
  there's been a few people I've befriended over the years, but.
• 24:20
  It was always a risk and a leap of faith when I initially
• 24:24
  started interacting with that person outside of what I do.
• 24:29
  And I think there's maybe always like a wish amongst certain
• 24:33
  people that aren't don't know me personally, all I wish I would
• 24:36
  get to know in person. And it's like you have to
• 24:39
  realize, like I'm a very shy and private person in general, which
• 24:43
  I think a lot of people find that hard to believe.
• 24:46
  Yeah, I've got an introvert and no one believes seems to believe
• 24:48
  that, but it's like that that, again, to speak to your point
• 24:51
  about what you were talking about, like the persona and the
• 24:53
  person. I deliberately keep things
• 24:56
  authentic, but you know, I'm not an entertainer 24/7.
• 25:02
  I'm a guy. I'm just a guy.
• 25:04
  I'm just a person, you know, we're just people.
• 25:07
  We have our own lives and we we get to do creative stuff for a
• 25:11
  living and it's amazing, but it's.
• 25:14
  You know, there is a big difference between the two.
• 25:17
  And you know, and he's given me such a new found appreciation
• 25:21
  for like when I see like, say movie stars and stuff and I get
• 25:24
  like why they don't want to get like all Paddy with like fans
• 25:27
  and stuff, I understand because they have their own network,
• 25:30
  friends, family, whatever. It takes time to build those
• 25:34
  kind of connections. And if you're, you know, a
• 25:37
  person of interest, like okay, I'm not saying I'm a person of
• 25:40
  interest, but I do recognize that.
• 25:43
  If I just would talk to everyone and be friends with everyone,
• 25:45
  that would be dangerous for me, as it would be for yourself, a
• 25:49
  bit of interest to your community, and you recognize
• 25:51
  that you just can't. It's impossible to give
• 25:56
  everything that you need to give for a legitimate friendship to
• 26:00
  each one of your viewers. It's just it's impossible.
• 26:03
  And this is another part to it as well that I think is really
• 26:06
  important. And this extends beyond
• 26:09
  befriending people in your community.
• 26:11
  This is just life. I guarantee you that none of you
• 26:16
  would be able to hold and maintain say like 30 friendships
• 26:21
  at one time. Impossible.
• 26:23
  Like if anyone can do that, show me.
• 26:25
  I want to see the evidence in the proof because it's not
• 26:27
  possible. And you know, have your
• 26:29
  relationships and and friendships that you already
• 26:31
  have and get your business done and take care of yourself.
• 26:34
  And no, like I there's that's the thing I keep my, my.
• 26:39
  My core friendship group and my family and everything, like I
• 26:42
  keep that close knit. I keep that safe, secure and
• 26:46
  also I keep it small because you know, I've only got so much time
• 26:51
  for for every one thing. And and that might sound harsh
• 26:55
  and not that everyone's necessarily going to understand
• 26:58
  that and I get that. But I think if you find yourself
• 27:01
  in a position where you're doing a lot, creating a lot, or maybe
• 27:05
  you're in a business, or there's like several things you have to
• 27:08
  balance in your life. You have to make sacrifices and
• 27:11
  you have to juggle things. And it's not always easy.
• 27:14
  And especially when it comes to friendships, you have to kind of
• 27:18
  pick and choose. And so if with all of that sort
• 27:24
  of taken into consideration, it's not favoritism, it's not
• 27:28
  handpicking. People like you can be my
• 27:30
  friend, but you can't be. It doesn't work like that.
• 27:33
  It's like, do you know what I mean?
• 27:35
  It's and it and it's always a leap of faith because the the
• 27:38
  reality is you don't know who you're dealing with when it's
• 27:40
  online. People.
• 27:41
  It could be someone who's perfectly normal and grounded or
• 27:44
  it could be someone who's got an unhealthy obsession with you.
• 27:49
  And that's the thing. You can't be a friend to someone
• 27:52
  who is obsessed with you. You can't date someone who's
• 27:55
  obsessed with you. These, these are not healthy
• 27:57
  things and and this is, this is another thing as well like.
• 28:02
  I think this show will serve not only to kind of talk about the
• 28:06
  concept of parasocial relationships, but also to
• 28:08
  demonstrate what a healthy relationship is and what is not
• 28:12
  a healthy relationship. For example, those guys reaching
• 28:16
  out to you in streams that were originally fans of your staff,
• 28:19
  they donate a little bit to you and they feel they're entitled
• 28:23
  to intimacy from you like that. That's that would be wrong.
• 28:31
  Equally, if that were in real life, if if like, someone, I
• 28:34
  don't know bought you food one time and you didn't ask them to,
• 28:37
  and then suddenly they're like, well, you owe me a date and
• 28:40
  you're like, no, I don't, I don't owe you anything.
• 28:44
  Yeah. I think it's really important to
• 28:46
  to emphasize that point where if you take these types of
• 28:51
  interactions and then apply them to real life and they look
• 28:54
  funny, then they're not right in streaming environments either.
• 28:59
  Yes. Like I'm going to give like a a
• 29:01
  very basic example and I I know that people like, I know their
• 29:07
  intentions are fine. It's not like they're they're
• 29:10
  trying to like push boundaries necessarily.
• 29:13
  And I I know that kids they just, I've even given like
• 29:16
  etiquette lessons on my discord before because some kids their
• 29:20
  their brains are literally not fully developed yet.
• 29:23
  So they just don't. They just don't know yet.
• 29:25
  They're not socially aware enough.
• 29:27
  So one example that I get rather frequently because I wear my
• 29:33
  crazy outfits and I like rainbows and stuff, people will
• 29:36
  join my streams and say are you LGBTQ?
• 29:39
  And at its surface level that is a, you know, it's a it's a
• 29:44
  rather benign question. It can be, it can also not be
• 29:49
  because it's kind of a some people it can be dangerous for
• 29:51
  them to talk about that. And and you know, it got me
• 29:54
  thinking about how would you go up to a stranger and ask them if
• 29:58
  they're L GB, TQI think that's a very frankly inappropriate
• 30:02
  question. I think it's it's one of those
• 30:05
  things where I would never go up to someone to be like are you
• 30:07
  gay? Are you a lesbian?
• 30:10
  It's just it's very personal for someone that you just met.
• 30:15
  It's something that maybe after a little while of conversation,
• 30:18
  you might decide to broach that subject in a in a, you know, in
• 30:23
  a way that gives them opportunity to answer the
• 30:25
  question if they're comfortable. I think everybody is entitled to
• 30:29
  their private romantic endeavors.
• 30:31
  Now, I'm pretty public about the fact that I have a boyfriend.
• 30:36
  So, you know, I bring up that thing.
• 30:38
  And I I feel like the LGBTQ question is a little bit more
• 30:41
  personal than, like, are you single?
• 30:43
  But I also feel like that can be a tricky question because it's a
• 30:48
  little bit, well, I think it's a little bit rude.
• 30:51
  Are you single? Because I'm here putting on a
• 30:53
  show, I'm not here looking for a partner right now.
• 30:57
  I'm not here looking to find a romantic entanglement with
• 31:03
  someone in my chat. So it's another thing where
• 31:07
  honestly, like as a woman, but I think honestly, across the board
• 31:11
  as a woman, when people ask me that publicly, there are
• 31:15
  scenarios where it's appropriate where maybe like, it's at a bar
• 31:18
  and I'm like, hanging out and stuff.
• 31:20
  And then there are other scenarios where I can actually
• 31:23
  feel a bit threatened, where I'm on the train and someone asks
• 31:26
  me, are you single? It's like, whoa, I'm kind of a
• 31:29
  captive audience right now. So.
• 31:32
  So I I think that anytime, yeah, people, people can like
• 31:37
  unintentionally overstep boundaries that I say anytime I
• 31:43
  I'm, I'm made to feel uncomfortable around the spot.
• 31:47
  I don't like it. I I don't like it.
• 31:49
  And I've I've started calling it out more and I try to do it in a
• 31:54
  in a loving and you know, kind way.
• 31:57
  But other times maybe I've had a bad day and I could snap back.
• 32:01
  I just, I just find, you know, anytime somebody does something
• 32:05
  that you would never do in real life, that you're crossing a
• 32:10
  line. Like you might compliment my hat
• 32:13
  and you do that in real life, That's OK.
• 32:15
  But if you say like, I don't like your shirt, it's like,
• 32:18
  would you say that in real life? Would you have the balls to go
• 32:22
  up to someone and say I don't like your shirt like anything?
• 32:27
  I think it's really, truly a parody between if you wouldn't
• 32:30
  say it in real life, the don't say it in the comments of
• 32:32
  someone's video, don't say it on a live stream.
• 32:36
  Just and it could be a nice or a not nice thing.
• 32:41
  I don't want someone giving me a crazy compliment about, you
• 32:45
  know, your eyes are just so gorgeous.
• 32:48
  It's like, it's like it'd be like you have nice eyes, but if
• 32:52
  someone like lays it on thick and they're like, I see the moon
• 32:55
  in your eyes or whatever, you're like.
• 32:58
  I get this. I get this all the time and I
• 33:02
  know some people missing might be like.
• 33:04
  Well, well, you should just accept that and and just be like
• 33:06
  very, you know, flattered and and accept the compliments and
• 33:09
  it's like, yeah, no. And it's, it's nice to hear.
• 33:12
  But if you were on the receiving end of receiving comments like
• 33:16
  that frequently and then they keep being pushy with it as well
• 33:20
  because it's one thing if someone just drops a like an off
• 33:23
  comment like okay. Thank you and you move on right?
• 33:27
  But then there's like, people that just really push it and
• 33:30
  it's like, all right, like, this isn't Tinder.
• 33:32
  We're not, we're not hooking up here.
• 33:34
  This is. I'm doing this live stream sign
• 33:37
  up for that type of interaction. Right, exactly.
• 33:41
  And I think, like you summed it up perfectly there.
• 33:43
  Like, I think people seem to forget themselves.
• 33:45
  Maybe because it's the Internet, maybe because it's it's fun,
• 33:48
  it's a unique experience, a live stream, but it is one sided.
• 33:55
  You know, the camera goes off. I don't think about you.
• 33:58
  You might think about me, but I don't think about you.
• 34:00
  And again, it sounds brutal, but I have my life, I have what I'm
• 34:04
  doing, I have my goals, etc. And you know, I've, I've said it
• 34:08
  in live streams before, like I'm not here to be your friend.
• 34:11
  You know, I I'm flattered and I'm really happy.
• 34:15
  That my live streams reach people, especially when people
• 34:18
  are struggling and they need like entertainment or something
• 34:21
  to keep them inspired, keep them going, whatever.
• 34:23
  That's amazing. And I love to be able to offer
• 34:25
  that. But like, don't get it missed,
• 34:28
  don't get it confused like. That doesn't mean we're going to
• 34:31
  be friends. That doesn't grant you access to
• 34:34
  my life and nor should it. And you know it's.
• 34:38
  And I think this is, again, like when I did my research on this,
• 34:41
  it didn't surprise me that this isn't a new concept because it's
• 34:44
  it's existed throughout time. Like I give you a really good
• 34:46
  example that I found which you may or may not have heard about,
• 34:49
  but this is pretty, pretty famous one.
• 34:52
  There was a fan that one one time turned up to John Lennon's
• 34:56
  house in the 70s. And I can't for the life of me
• 35:01
  think of where he's living some some grand country house with
• 35:03
  Yoko Ono. And this guy, as I understand
• 35:06
  he's a big hippie guy. I think he might have
• 35:09
  potentially been a a Vietnam War vet or something.
• 35:12
  And he was pretty obsessed with John Lennon, and he said
• 35:16
  something to the effect of all. You know, your lyrics speak to
• 35:21
  me like, you know you like you. It's like you're taking ideas
• 35:23
  from my head, like you're are you writing these songs for me
• 35:27
  to speak to me. And I think normally John would
• 35:31
  have just been kind of like, oh, hey, listen, you know, back off
• 35:35
  kind of thing. But I think he felt for this guy
• 35:37
  because this guy had traveled a long way to see him.
• 35:40
  He was grubby. He was, you know, clearly not in
• 35:44
  a good way. And John?
• 35:46
  At first, just kind of stood on his doorstep.
• 35:49
  You can find this on YouTube. By the way, if you Google it.
• 35:51
  Yeah, I've never heard about. This.
• 35:52
  So he he's there talking to this guy and he's like, listen, I'm
• 35:56
  just a guy from Liverpool and I wrote some tunes and I'm glad
• 36:00
  that, you know, they speak to you, but like I didn't write
• 36:02
  them for you, I wrote them for me.
• 36:04
  I wrote the, you know this about whatever random thing.
• 36:07
  And you can see the guy is like slowly realizing as he's hearing
• 36:13
  this, but he can't quite comprehend it.
• 36:15
  Because he's built himself up. This, this obsession is built up
• 36:18
  and built up and built up. And in his mind, there's this
• 36:21
  deep connection. There's, you know, like he
• 36:24
  listened to these songs and now he's forever connected to John
• 36:28
  Lennon. And it's like, it's just not the
• 36:30
  way you think it is in your mind.
• 36:32
  Whatever you built up in your mind is not reality.
• 36:36
  And you know, he invited this guy in.
• 36:37
  They sat down, they had tea, they had food.
• 36:40
  And he realized, I think, oh, he's just a guy.
• 36:43
  He's just a guy. And I I say this to everyone.
• 36:47
  I'm just a guy. I'm just a person.
• 36:49
  I'm glad that you you enjoy the content and and you get
• 36:52
  something out of it awesome. But I am and will always be the
• 36:56
  same as you, just a person with his own life.
• 36:59
  I just happen to be doing this creative stuff.
• 37:01
  That's it. Yeah.
• 37:02
  Yeah. No, I I think that's a that's a
• 37:05
  good summation. I'm friendly during my streams,
• 37:09
  and I like having friendly interactions with people.
• 37:11
  But I am not a replacement for a friend.
• 37:15
  I'm not. I'm not a replacement for a true
• 37:18
  friendship. And I I'm happy to be there for
• 37:21
  people to entertain and to hang out and to have an enjoyable
• 37:25
  experience. But I just can't physically be
• 37:29
  there during when I'm, when I'm off the clock, when the camera
• 37:34
  turns off. I can't like, I just, I can't
• 37:36
  give myself. Just like John Lennon can't give
• 37:39
  himself to that person, you know?
• 37:41
  It's like we can't. We just simply can't.
• 37:45
  Then you think as well that like there's this expectation now
• 37:50
  because of the instant kind of gratification culture that we
• 37:54
  have and then the instant nature of everything like okay, emails,
• 38:00
  phone messages, whatever, like apps like WhatsApp, right?
• 38:04
  I have this issue where. Yeah, Sometimes I just won't
• 38:07
  feel up to talking to people or I'm not in the head space to sit
• 38:10
  and go through my emails or whatever, like, and I get back
• 38:12
  to that during working hours or when I feel comfortable.
• 38:15
  And I know sometimes people are a bit, like funny about that.
• 38:18
  And it's like, listen, just because you're able to contact
• 38:21
  me in real time at any time, that doesn't mean I'm going to
• 38:24
  do, you know what I mean? Contact you.
• 38:27
  And like, companies are really bad for this as well.
• 38:30
  Like they'll do stuff. Like they'll contact you out of
• 38:34
  hours and it's like. Oh, did you not get my message?
• 38:36
  And it's like, yeah, you contact me out of hours, that's my time.
• 38:40
  Although they'll say, like, oh, can you come in at the weekend?
• 38:44
  Have you got. They'll say something like, have
• 38:46
  you got anything on? And you'll be like, oh, nothing.
• 38:48
  Just, yeah. And they'll be like, oh, great,
• 38:49
  so you can come in. It's like, oh, actually, no, I
• 38:51
  can't. And then like, oh, but you said
• 38:53
  you don't have anything on. And it's like, if I want to sit
• 38:55
  at home and just pick out, watch TV, whatever, Right.
• 39:00
  That's my time. That counts as an activity.
• 39:03
  Maybe it doesn't to you. But it is your time.
• 39:05
  Is is your own. It's.
• 39:07
  It's so sacred to use this quite a strong word, but it is.
• 39:12
  It is a good word for it though. And it also like that time is so
• 39:16
  important to allow us to be our best selves When we do turn the
• 39:20
  camera on, when we do clock in, when we do our jobs like we need
• 39:25
  that time to decompress. Like after I after I finish my
• 39:29
  streams, I usually do them on like I usually do them in the
• 39:32
  evenings, and then afterwards I cook dinner and veg out for a
• 39:36
  few hours. And that is sacred time.
• 39:39
  That is important time that I spend with my partner.
• 39:43
  Or, you know, I have a phone call with a friend or somebody
• 39:46
  and it's and it and and I do my best to kind of like distance
• 39:50
  myself from my live streaming and my job and my art.
• 39:55
  I I try to spend time like not thinking about it because I need
• 39:59
  distance from it. I need time to breathe.
• 40:02
  You find as well like when you come off a stream or like for
• 40:05
  instance when we finish this podcast today, like you just
• 40:09
  need like maybe half an hour to just kind of rest because did a
• 40:13
  lot of talking. Like talking is tired.
• 40:15
  Do you know what I mean? It's like it just takes a lot
• 40:20
  out of you. I once had a this person will
• 40:24
  probably be there for this, but so I was experimenting with
• 40:28
  Twitch and I was hosting a stream for like a few hours and
• 40:35
  I. Someone in my chat suggested I
• 40:38
  raid somebody and so I was like, OK because I'm rating is like a
• 40:42
  new concept to me. For those who don't know what
• 40:43
  rating is, you basically can send your audience to another
• 40:46
  live streamer at the end of your stream.
• 40:49
  It's a really cool thing. I love about Twitch, but so so
• 40:52
  yeah, I agreed, OK, I'll raid this person and what I did not
• 40:55
  know. And this is a very good thing
• 40:58
  that I learned. But what I did not know is after
• 41:01
  you RAID your stream is still going and so.
• 41:05
  People can choose to join the raid, so theoretically your
• 41:09
  entire audience can just go to the next person.
• 41:12
  But you have to hit end broadcast on OBS if you want
• 41:16
  that stream to end. So I thought everyone left.
• 41:18
  I thought the stream was over and so I did that.
• 41:21
  I went from like to, you know, I just like, like I just slipped
• 41:29
  the mask, yeah. The mask it has and like you
• 41:32
  know. I'll use the phrase like resting
• 41:35
  bitch face, like that's basically like, what I became
• 41:37
  right? I get like, comments coming
• 41:39
  through like, hey, you OK, man? Like what's wrong?
• 41:42
  Well I got so there was I think my twist dreams are like very
• 41:45
  small audience and I I'm such a haphazard streamer there that I
• 41:48
  never expect people to like really be there for the streams.
• 41:51
  But there was there was one person who has like been a
• 41:54
  regular who who they they messaged me on Discord.
• 41:58
  They're like. Hey, you, you have to hit and
• 42:01
  broadcast to end the stream. I'm like, you know, I was, I was
• 42:05
  fine. I I think I joked, I was like,
• 42:06
  yeah, but as soon as the stream was over, I grabbed a puppy and
• 42:09
  I punched it, You know, like that's that's the joke I have.
• 42:12
  It's it's like, yeah, when the camera's off, I just go right
• 42:15
  into puppy punching mode, like, so is this funny hearing you say
• 42:23
  that much? Yeah.
• 42:26
  So they got to witness my, my puppy punching mode era of my of
• 42:31
  my streams and I. And so, so thankfully, there was
• 42:39
  nothing that happened that was off base and it was like a
• 42:41
  super, you know, as soon as I realized it, like I couldn't
• 42:44
  help but be like. I didn't know I was still
• 42:49
  streaming. Oh gosh, I think a lot of
• 42:51
  streamers, that's their nightmare is that they're like
• 42:54
  broadcasting when they don't realize it.
• 42:56
  And thankfully it was like super OK, but it did.
• 42:59
  It was a stark realization that like, Oh yeah, when I think the
• 43:03
  stream is over, I definitely, I need a moment to like, it's
• 43:08
  true, man. It's like when you go out and I.
• 43:10
  And I've even talked about that with my partner that, like, you
• 43:13
  know, when a stream is over, sometimes he'll get home from
• 43:17
  work and I might have just wrapped up my stream.
• 43:19
  And like, he understands that I need 20 minutes to check my
• 43:24
  notifications, to play a game of Minesweeper, to you know, to to
• 43:30
  check in on Discord, to turn my brain off for a SEC, he'll to
• 43:34
  watch 1/4 of an episode of Gilmore Girls.
• 43:36
  You know I need that time to just.
• 43:39
  To just decompress and like read.
• 43:42
  It's like the it's like the the the spirit barrier between the
• 43:45
  streaming realm and the like real life realm that you just
• 43:50
  you need that time. I know because I know you're
• 43:53
  you're as bad as me for this, like being work holic.
• 43:56
  Like I've had to force myself to just sit and just watch stuff
• 44:01
  and not do that. No phone, nothing there.
• 44:04
  Just sit. Vegetate.
• 44:07
  Yes. That's so hard.
• 44:08
  Because I'm like, oh, but what about this?
• 44:09
  Oh, what about this? Oh, I could do this.
• 44:10
  Oh, that won't take long. And it's like, no, no, no, no.
• 44:12
  Like, just stop. Yeah, no, it's very bad for me
• 44:15
  last night, uh, Speaking of Gilmore Girls, I was watching
• 44:18
  Gilmore. Gilmore Girls to like, I don't
• 44:20
  know, at least 1:00 AM. And the whole time I was
• 44:24
  cleaning the space on my phone, like, I couldn't just watch the
• 44:27
  show. I had to be like, I'm doing a
• 44:29
  productive thing. I'm moving files off my phone to
• 44:32
  free up space. It's like, man, just just watch
• 44:35
  a show just to do it. It's it's equal.
• 44:38
  Yeah. It's, I think it's, it's the
• 44:39
  balance and the harmony of all things, you know, like, like
• 44:42
  today, you know, I hit the gym, I did this podcast, I did my
• 44:46
  auditions, I'll do my live streams later and then there'll
• 44:49
  be a space where I will just relax and chill and not do
• 44:53
  anything. And and that's fine too.
• 44:55
  And that you need that. And I think, like, when I got
• 44:57
  sick recently because I had like a throat infection, I was out of
• 45:00
  service for like about a week. Yeah, it was scary.
• 45:03
  And I think part of it was like me just needing to understand
• 45:09
  that, like, you need to rest more.
• 45:12
  And like, with what I do, I use my voice for everything.
• 45:16
  So I really had to like the car, couldn't talk, can do anything.
• 45:20
  Wow. Yeah, your body's telling you
• 45:22
  you need a break. Yeah.
• 45:24
  I mean, it's. I mean, now I understand that,
• 45:26
  you know, when people take holidays from their work, like,
• 45:28
  obviously, like, they feel like they're close to burnout.
• 45:30
  But like, it's it's true. Like everything we do, like even
• 45:33
  if we love what we do, our body just can't keep up.
• 45:37
  You have to just let it, let it sit for a minute and come back
• 45:40
  to it. I actually took a recent
• 45:45
  sabbatical from live streaming. Wow.
• 45:47
  OK. Yeah, it's the first time that
• 45:49
  I've ever taken a sabbatical. I started and I think it was
• 45:52
  around early August and right now it's planned until like
• 45:56
  early September, so like a month off and.
• 46:00
  Now, the thing about the live strip sabbaticals, that's not my
• 46:03
  only source of income. I'm I'm still working.
• 46:06
  But that sabbatical allowed me the opportunity to, like, move
• 46:09
  into a new space. So it allowed me to, like,
• 46:13
  switch my office to a new room. And I went to, I went back home
• 46:17
  to Michigan to visit family. We hosted a guest.
• 46:21
  And it was. And there were a lot of reasons
• 46:24
  why I took the sabbatical. But oh, one of the big ones that
• 46:27
  I emphasized. I made like a like a goodbye
• 46:29
  video of source. In that video, I talked about
• 46:32
  how I need time to really. Evaluate the future of my
• 46:36
  streams, my relationship with streaming as opposed to my
• 46:40
  relationship with my career as an artist.
• 46:42
  Because I think this is true for you as well, that like live
• 46:46
  streaming, neither of us had intended on that becoming our
• 46:50
  predominant profession. And we both love doing it, but
• 46:52
  it's kind of like an ancillary thing that we do on top of what
• 46:56
  what we're already doing. And so it's important.
• 47:02
  For me to spend that time to figure out where does this fit
• 47:06
  in the puzzle, where do I want this to fit and how do I want to
• 47:12
  proceed going forward. So that's that's the big reason
• 47:15
  for the sabbatical, and it's given me awesome opportunity to
• 47:19
  brainstorm new ideas and to not only not only new ideas for like
• 47:25
  things that I want to do on stream that are fun and
• 47:27
  interactive, but related to what we're talking about today,
• 47:30
  brainstorming. How to better set boundaries
• 47:36
  with my audience to make it a better experience for me and the
• 47:40
  audience. Let's break this apart a little
• 47:43
  bit, cuz and I'm looking at my questions and I think I might
• 47:45
  kind of reject these a little bit.
• 47:48
  Sure. Well, we'll look at it from a
• 47:52
  negative and a positive perspective.
• 47:54
  So we'll start with a negative. We'll get to the positive.
• 47:57
  Yeah, you've you've come in a little bit about what's
• 48:01
  inappropriate, but let's let's break it down a little bit.
• 48:04
  Let's talk generically. Give me some examples of like
• 48:09
  inappropriate behavior or not respecting boundaries, maybe
• 48:14
  unfair demands, stuff like that. That's that's kind of like paint
• 48:20
  a picture of how we got to that point where you made that
• 48:23
  statement, because that doesn't just happen overnight.
• 48:25
  That happens over the course of a long time.
• 48:28
  I remember maybe a year ago, I think the one of the last times
• 48:34
  we spoke, we had this conversation off camera and it
• 48:38
  was, it was long. I won't go to details, it's
• 48:40
  private. But we did talk about this a
• 48:42
  little bit and I was just really upset to hear that because I was
• 48:46
  like, damn, like, you know, it just sucks.
• 48:49
  Other people have to go through the same thing as well.
• 48:51
  And like last thing, I'm on such a small scale, like I have a
• 48:54
  small, small, small following. And again, it's not in my core
• 48:58
  community, but it is in the like wider kind of spirit things.
• 49:02
  But you're a person who has like a lot of people following at any
• 49:06
  one time, watching at any one time.
• 49:09
  So there's going to be more of it and it's going to be quite
• 49:12
  overwhelming sometimes. And it's I think just also on
• 49:18
  aside that just in general that being a lady like you're going
• 49:20
  to have and unfortunately this kind of attention and
• 49:25
  inappropriateness regardless of whether you do stuff online or
• 49:29
  not, it's like it's one of the sucky things about being a lady.
• 49:33
  It's just you're going to get that attention and you have to
• 49:36
  each woman has to find their own way of dealing with it and and
• 49:39
  avoiding it and and stuff. But like obviously you're in a
• 49:42
  spot where you're running a business, you're doing, you know
• 49:45
  a big part of what you do is tied with your look like not
• 49:49
  especially, but it's part of the branding and right.
• 49:53
  And and so people like, I think go too far with that, obviously.
• 50:00
  Yeah, but yeah, let's explore this.
• 50:03
  Sure, sure. So you know, a lot of the, I'll
• 50:08
  say, like I I brought up earlier that I've I've taught some like
• 50:12
  etiquette lessons over on Discord where I've like
• 50:15
  delineated behaviors that I won't reward.
• 50:20
  So, so some of those behaviors can be like very innocent.
• 50:24
  And I'll talk about like, why they're problematic.
• 50:26
  So TikTok, I will forever die on this hill.
• 50:30
  That TikTok needs slow chat. They need to introduce slow chat
• 50:33
  to the show. Yeah, Never.
• 50:35
  Thought every other major streaming platform that I'm
• 50:37
  aware of has slow chat as an option and TikTok needs to get
• 50:40
  with the program, I will die on that hill.
• 50:42
  I think it's to the benefit of every live streamer if we can
• 50:45
  have access to that feature, even if it's as slow as like a 5
• 50:48
  second delay. So the number one behavior that
• 50:52
  I think universally is despised by all live streamers is
• 50:56
  spammers. Copy paste message.
• 50:58
  Doesn't matter what the message is, they clog the chat.
• 51:01
  It's like my moderators have to digital whack them all them
• 51:04
  away. I have no tolerance for it and I
• 51:07
  will not if I do respond to the message.
• 51:14
  I don't care what the message is.
• 51:16
  It will be negative if I respond to the message.
• 51:20
  It's like stop, you're being annoying.
• 51:24
  So I didn't get what the end game there is cuz I've had that
• 51:29
  too. And the mods will just be like
• 51:31
  if you don't stop will block you and then and then I'll always
• 51:34
  just be like same as you I'll be like that would I'm not gonna do
• 51:38
  the thing you want. So you lose if you don't stop.
• 51:41
  Yeah. And some people get it, a lot of
• 51:43
  people don't. And you're like fine, they go
• 51:44
  block like. I think a lot of it is children.
• 51:47
  They're just immature and they their brains literally cannot
• 51:50
  comprehend empathy. Like they just don't like like
• 51:55
  it would be like, oh, you want me to come over to your house,
• 51:57
  I'm knocking at your door 80 million times.
• 51:58
  I'd be like, draw Goku, draw Goku, draw Goku.
• 52:01
  That's a good way of looking at that, actually, yeah.
• 52:05
  Yeah. And I think, I think it's one of
• 52:07
  those things where a lot of like the negative behaviors that I've
• 52:11
  dealt with that I would like to like not experience, come from
• 52:19
  mostly children. So I've I've actually been
• 52:21
  trying to to do things to retool my streams to make them.
• 52:26
  A little bit less children friendly, not in that I'm
• 52:29
  producing more mature content, but in that, like, I'm not
• 52:32
  abetting behaviors of children that kill the vibe of the chat.
• 52:36
  I find the vibe of the chat to be this, like, sacred thing that
• 52:39
  I always want to protect, and I want to make it a welcoming
• 52:43
  environment for the kind of people that I want to watch my
• 52:45
  stream. So I think yeah, you asked, you
• 52:48
  asked a question about like negatives as far as behavior
• 52:52
  that I mean. That's like a surface level, but
• 52:54
  I think more in the realm of like the parasocial
• 52:58
  relationship. I would say anytime someone says
• 53:04
  like, you know, I DMD you, anytime somebody like like puts
• 53:08
  you on the spot in any way it can be.
• 53:13
  Would you like to stream with me sometime?
• 53:15
  I think it's very inappropriate to ask that question while
• 53:18
  someone's streaming you. You should never.
• 53:21
  Put a live streamer on the spot. They've got the microphone,
• 53:23
  they've got the spotlight, and it's just really inappropriate
• 53:27
  to put them in a position that they might not be super
• 53:30
  comfortable being in. So something like, can I be a
• 53:33
  moderator? I mentioned before the stream
• 53:35
  started that I've actually deleted the word moderator and
• 53:38
  different versions of that word from my TikTok because it became
• 53:41
  such a problem where people would ask me during a stream and
• 53:45
  if you're listening to this right now and you're interested
• 53:47
  in becoming a moderator to my stream or to any.
• 53:50
  Live streamers streams just know that putting a live streamer on
• 53:56
  the spot is not a good look if you want to be one of their
• 53:59
  moderators. Making a live streamer
• 54:02
  uncomfortable is a really good way to guarantee that you're not
• 54:06
  going to be on the right footing with them, and it's not going to
• 54:09
  bode well for you if your goal is to be one of their
• 54:11
  moderators. A moderator is not.
• 54:14
  A position of higher recognition of friendship with a live
• 54:19
  streamer. It's not a position of, you
• 54:23
  know, intimacy. It's not like we, you and I
• 54:28
  talked about this before the stream started, too.
• 54:30
  A moderator is a volunteer who helps to.
• 54:35
  Take care of problematic things happening in the chat.
• 54:37
  The moderators are, you know, additional sets of eyes and
• 54:41
  ears. They will take care of when
• 54:43
  someone says something inappropriate or when they're
• 54:46
  spamming too much. That is their job.
• 54:48
  And there are like certain tools in TikTok that they have access
• 54:52
  to. So if I need a second set of
• 54:53
  hands, they can start a poll for me.
• 54:55
  Sometimes it's very much like a job, it is a job position and
• 55:02
  so. So anytime somebody asks that of
• 55:05
  you, I I consider that like a yellow flag that that makes me
• 55:09
  not want to make them a moderator.
• 55:11
  And there if you want to ask. If you could be a moderator,
• 55:16
  then you just have to go about it more tactfully.
• 55:19
  I think it is appropriate to send an e-mail or to inquire
• 55:24
  within the Discord. Like, are there open spots
• 55:27
  available for moderators? You know, I was, I was just
• 55:31
  wondering, no worries. If not, like, make sure that
• 55:34
  it's like, not a big deal if the answer is no, because, like,
• 55:37
  it's not my job to regulate my audience's feelings and to
• 55:41
  tiptoe. It's not like I think you know
• 55:45
  those those are ways that like you can in a very mature way
• 55:49
  like ask or I wouldn't, I wouldn't even say ask, but like
• 55:53
  express interest in the opportunity.
• 55:56
  If I am not openly letting the world know I need moderators,
• 56:02
  then then usually I think you know across the board, most
• 56:05
  moderators especially. Most streamers, if they've been
• 56:08
  like doing this for over a year, they've got a rock star roster
• 56:12
  already. Most likely, they've probably
• 56:14
  got moderators that are like across time zones.
• 56:17
  That doesn't mean that they're not like full up, but it doesn't
• 56:20
  mean that they're probably not actively looking.
• 56:23
  And and I tend to bestow the role upon people who don't even
• 56:27
  necessarily ask, I bestow the role.
• 56:30
  When I noticed people are green flagging all the time and, well,
• 56:34
  it's like, OK, well, what does a green flag look like?
• 56:36
  They're polite. They're adding to the
• 56:39
  conversation. They are consistently joining
• 56:42
  the streams. They might be joining streams at
• 56:46
  odd hours when I don't have a lot of moderators.
• 56:49
  They might be answering questions on my behalf, which I
• 56:53
  really appreciate because if they're a regular and someone
• 56:56
  asks a question. How do you preserve an edge, a
• 56:59
  sketch and they answer something like, oh, if you'd like to see
• 57:03
  the video, you can check it out in her link tree.
• 57:05
  Like those are like huge green flags, like they're actually
• 57:09
  taking a load off of my plate and and I always encouraged that
• 57:14
  and I agree with them and I said, oh, what this person just
• 57:17
  said is perfect. Check out the link in my bio.
• 57:20
  Occasion where someone's like, oh, you know, you know, someone
• 57:23
  asks me a question and maybe they don't have the perfect
• 57:25
  answer. I'm not going to be like wrong.
• 57:28
  I'll say like, oh, you know, you're on the right track.
• 57:31
  You know, I would word it just a little differently.
• 57:33
  But like basically what they said.
• 57:35
  So, you know, those are, that's the kind of behavior that I
• 57:39
  consider for being a moderator. Not like I talked about this
• 57:44
  before, before we started the stream, but like I had.
• 57:48
  A number of top donators when I was doing my my Rosometer where
• 57:53
  people donated roses toward my student loan debt and some of
• 57:58
  those top donors, Other people in the chat during my stream
• 58:03
  said you should make them a moderator and that's not a role
• 58:09
  you can purchase. That's not the point of a
• 58:11
  moderator. It's not a figurehead position
• 58:14
  to. Put them on a pedestal to say
• 58:17
  look you can buy getting this symbol next to your username
• 58:20
  that's not you can't buy it you can't like you can't woo your
• 58:26
  way into it you can't like and so so I think that's that's
• 58:31
  another like really negative behavior.
• 58:32
  And then As for like what I addressed in that message about
• 58:36
  the problems I was having with for this circumstance, it was
• 58:40
  men. With men who were crossing
• 58:46
  inappropriate boundaries with me, I find a really, really
• 58:52
  negative behavior is. If you're messaging me with the
• 58:56
  idea of having lengthy, intimate conversation with me, I my Dms
• 59:01
  are open to discuss business inquiries and 99% of my audience
• 59:06
  gets that. They're not sliding into my Dms
• 59:08
  trying to have one-on-one conversation with me.
• 59:11
  They get it. They understand that my time is
• 59:13
  valuable and I understand like their time should be valuable
• 59:16
  too, and I honor that. Every time I host a stream, I
• 59:19
  always say at the end of my streams you could be anywhere on
• 59:21
  the Internet. And you choose to spend this
• 59:22
  time with me, and I never want to take that for granted.
• 59:25
  And so I find honestly, when people DM me just being like,
• 59:30
  well, like, I think everybody's universally annoyed when someone
• 59:33
  sends him a DM and just goes, hey, yeah.
• 59:36
  But I think I find when people DM me just to, like shoot the
• 59:41
  breeze or DM me, especially if they're dming me to like, flirt
• 59:45
  with me immediately starting on bad footing.
• 59:49
  Like, I usually delete those messages.
• 59:53
  I I don't mean to sound like haughty when I say this, but
• 59:58
  like if you go to my TikTok, I've got like half a million
• 1:00:02
  followers and I literally cannot give individual attention to
• 1:00:06
  people. I just don't have the time of
• 1:00:08
  day to conduct these like one-on-one back and forth
• 1:00:11
  conversations with people and it.
• 1:00:15
  Loops back to the entitlement thing where I know I usually
• 1:00:18
  have that problem with children, but it can be across any age
• 1:00:22
  range. If somebody's joining my streams
• 1:00:24
  a lot and maybe during the streams awesome conversation
• 1:00:29
  happening, like they could be green flags all the time.
• 1:00:32
  But if they decide to take that another step and try to have
• 1:00:35
  one-on-one conversation with me, I don't.
• 1:00:39
  I most times I do. I do not abet that I will not
• 1:00:43
  entertain that, especially not anymore.
• 1:00:44
  I used to kind of like tiptoe around it and try to like, suss
• 1:00:48
  it out. But now I find it frankly to be
• 1:00:51
  like almost a red flag. If somebody's trying to have a
• 1:00:54
  one-on-one relationship or friendship with me, regardless
• 1:00:59
  of the detention, it makes it it.
• 1:01:03
  I think there are ways that are like better to go about doing
• 1:01:06
  it. But I I understand people want
• 1:01:10
  to be friends with me and that's very flattering and I'm it's
• 1:01:13
  very sweet. But I find that my TikTok, DMS
• 1:01:19
  that's just not the place to do it.
• 1:01:21
  You can join my discord, you can become more involved in the
• 1:01:24
  community. We can have discussions in the
• 1:01:26
  different channels and get to know each other that way.
• 1:01:29
  And there are people that are super nice that they they could
• 1:01:35
  be like moderators, they could be regular viewers of my streams
• 1:01:39
  and I really like them. But we may not have necessarily
• 1:01:43
  clicked on all cylinders. Like maybe they're really into
• 1:01:47
  different hobbies than me and that's like totally fine or we
• 1:01:52
  just don't. We just don't have that like
• 1:01:55
  chemistry and some capacity and that's like super OK, we could
• 1:01:59
  be friendly to one another, but I'm probably not going to be
• 1:02:01
  running to Dms with them to tell them about like the serious
• 1:02:06
  things going on in my life. That's just that's just the
• 1:02:09
  level of intimacy that that I'm not very comfortable opening
• 1:02:16
  that door with almost anybody that would be in my live stream
• 1:02:19
  world. It's it's it's a trust thing and
• 1:02:22
  it and it's and it's a leap of faith.
• 1:02:25
  I mean, I'll give you an example.
• 1:02:26
  I did a TV show recently. And one of the main cast like I
• 1:02:33
  followed him on Instagram and he, I guess he must have seen
• 1:02:37
  that And then because we acted alongside each other on two
• 1:02:41
  different dates and he was like really enamored with my work and
• 1:02:44
  he gave me great advice and we were chatting on set and both in
• 1:02:47
  the Dms. Now if you just take that as an
• 1:02:50
  example. I could very easily, for
• 1:02:52
  example, screenshot that and be like, hey, look, you talk to me
• 1:02:55
  and show our private conversations and just put that
• 1:02:58
  out there to the world. Right now he's taken a leap of
• 1:03:02
  of faith in me. He's trusted me not to do that
• 1:03:05
  now. He's not come out and said it
• 1:03:08
  because the, you know, the understanding is, well, we're
• 1:03:10
  both actors and you know, that would be a really stupid,
• 1:03:14
  horrible thing to do and do what I mean, but it's there.
• 1:03:18
  It's the, I'm sure he, he's had that leap of faith thing many
• 1:03:23
  times before and maybe he's even been caught out on it before,
• 1:03:26
  who knows. But that's a really good
• 1:03:27
  example. It's like.
• 1:03:30
  It's a trust thing. And to be honest, as time goes
• 1:03:33
  on, I I message message like less and less and less.
• 1:03:36
  Like occasionally I I will like if someone respond, says
• 1:03:40
  something nice. Because you know sometimes
• 1:03:43
  people reply to your story on Instagram, they'd be like, oh
• 1:03:45
  this is brilliant and you're like, thank you, but like I'm
• 1:03:48
  not looking to start like a discourse.
• 1:03:51
  I'm just looking to say thank you.
• 1:03:52
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:03:53
  Like that's the the open, the close of it, yeah.
• 1:03:55
  But I've I've learned my lesson even from that, and like
• 1:03:58
  generally as a rule. I'm not really contactable, and
• 1:04:03
  I'm especially with like the recent experiences I've had and
• 1:04:08
  now how I'm transitioning things with with the Patreon and stuff,
• 1:04:12
  it's becoming more exclusive and stuff.
• 1:04:15
  And that's not to make it sound like, oh, talking to me is such
• 1:04:17
  an exclusive thing. But I I guess I never really
• 1:04:20
  looked at it before like, oh, I am a creator, potentially a
• 1:04:25
  person of interest, because I've never had like, success in this.
• 1:04:29
  But I'm starting to approach it that way now because it's like,
• 1:04:34
  that's the mindset you have to have to protect yourself.
• 1:04:37
  And also like, even just a really good example, when I
• 1:04:42
  edited my tears the other day on Patreon, the top tiers, a friend
• 1:04:49
  of mine was like, this doesn't really protect you.
• 1:04:52
  And I was like, what do you mean?
• 1:04:53
  And she said like well. You know, let's say someone
• 1:04:56
  wanted to send you something inappropriate, like an
• 1:04:58
  inappropriate request, What would you do?
• 1:05:00
  And I'm like, huh, I know, I guess I mean, I just, I kind of
• 1:05:04
  naively assumed people wouldn't do that.
• 1:05:06
  But it's the Internet. People will absolutely do that.
• 1:05:08
  So I added disclaimers on both of them to say anything that's
• 1:05:12
  deemed inappropriate will not be granted, like as a kind of.
• 1:05:16
  And it's sad to have to put something like that there.
• 1:05:19
  But you know what I mean. The same thing.
• 1:05:22
  Yep. Yep.
• 1:05:23
  I have to say I, I should let you know.
• 1:05:26
  Just a quick little addendum. I probably do have to go in
• 1:05:28
  about 10 minutes. So, yeah, just a second.
• 1:05:33
  Okay. Cool.
• 1:05:34
  But yes, I I totally agree that you have to kind of cover your
• 1:05:39
  basis because you never know somebody's going to try to like
• 1:05:43
  use an opportunity to encroach upon a boundary.
• 1:05:45
  And I I really like what you were saying about the the actor
• 1:05:49
  that you're talking about that like he took a leap of faith
• 1:05:52
  with you. I don't know if you specified
• 1:05:54
  their gender, but they took a leap of faith with you and they
• 1:05:59
  implicitly trusted that you weren't going to leak the
• 1:06:03
  messages. And that's a huge thing because
• 1:06:06
  the way that I conduct myself with my with my audience on
• 1:06:12
  streams, like there are occasions where, you know, I
• 1:06:14
  might be D Ming people. I always treat it as though it's
• 1:06:16
  public like because I don't know if anything is ever going to be
• 1:06:21
  leaked. And now if I meet people that
• 1:06:22
  are like outside of that context, like maybe another
• 1:06:26
  another artist who might have a larger following, like I don't
• 1:06:30
  mean to sound what's the word for it's not like a conceited
• 1:06:34
  thing. It's more of like a trust thing.
• 1:06:36
  Like if another artist with like a large platform reaches out to
• 1:06:39
  me and we have conversation, I inherently feel more at ease
• 1:06:42
  with them because they also understand that the stakes are
• 1:06:44
  high. Like they've worked really hard
• 1:06:47
  and they've spent years and it's not even like the audience
• 1:06:50
  number thing. If I see that they've been like
• 1:06:51
  posting content for years, then I feel implicitly a little bit
• 1:06:54
  more trustful of them because I feel like they're not going to
• 1:06:57
  risk it all to do something stupid and they know that I'm
• 1:07:00
  not going to risk it all by doing something stupid too.
• 1:07:01
  Like on TikTok, people can try to join you in a stream, and I
• 1:07:06
  almost never accept the request, but I will never ever, ever
• 1:07:11
  accept a request from someone who has an audience of like two
• 1:07:14
  people because they have frankly nothing to lose.
• 1:07:16
  I don't know anything about them.
• 1:07:17
  But if somebody has an audience of like 100 plus people, then I
• 1:07:21
  feel like they're not going to jeopardize their relationship
• 1:07:24
  with the audience that they currently have.
• 1:07:25
  Like they're probably doing something that is they're
• 1:07:31
  probably like working hard as a streamer.
• 1:07:33
  So they're not going to like, if I were to accept their request,
• 1:07:37
  they're probably not going to say something stupid that would
• 1:07:40
  get them banned. Because it looks like they also
• 1:07:42
  have stakes in mind. And so like those numbers can
• 1:07:46
  kind of implicitly just they can imply a little degree of trust
• 1:07:52
  and that you can feel a little bit more at ease and comfortable
• 1:07:55
  around them. Not to say that the only people
• 1:07:58
  who are trustworthy are the people who have a large
• 1:08:00
  following or who's been at it for a long time.
• 1:08:02
  But I am much more trustful of somebody who has a bunch of art
• 1:08:06
  on their page that they've been posting for years.
• 1:08:08
  And then I am of someone with a private account and 0 followers,
• 1:08:12
  like just that kind of thing. Like I'm I'm already like more
• 1:08:17
  on edge. If somebody messages me and they
• 1:08:20
  have a private account with no followers, I'm like, all right,
• 1:08:22
  are you going to like kamikaze this experience and like try to
• 1:08:26
  like put me to where position Are you going to try to take
• 1:08:29
  something I say out of context? Are you going to blow up at me
• 1:08:32
  and get angry? Like, I already feel more
• 1:08:35
  defensive than on edge with like.
• 1:08:38
  As soon as a message like that starts, that's it's it's
• 1:08:41
  something I just I just have to be careful.
• 1:08:44
  We all have to be careful because we don't wanna.
• 1:08:46
  Like we don't wanna have anything we say.
• 1:08:48
  Take it out of context. And that's another reason why
• 1:08:51
  it's hard to befriend an audience necessarily because you
• 1:08:55
  don't know their agenda. No, it's tricky.
• 1:09:00
  I totally get it. I mean like, just take this
• 1:09:02
  podcast for example. Three years ago when I first
• 1:09:05
  reached out to you, you were doing well even back then and
• 1:09:08
  you know at this at that point you'd already been on the news,
• 1:09:11
  you'd been you know featured heavily featured by YouTube
• 1:09:14
  etcetera. You took a risk on on my show
• 1:09:18
  and I think at that point I think I was a fair few episodes
• 1:09:23
  in, but it was still early days. And but the risk didn't feel
• 1:09:28
  dangerous to me because I could tell that you were already doing
• 1:09:30
  this and I was able to like look at what you were doing and I was
• 1:09:34
  able to determine like oh, this person's legit.
• 1:09:37
  They you know, and I I was enjoying the episodes I was
• 1:09:40
  listening to and everything. So I I don't want to say that
• 1:09:43
  numbers are the most important factor, but they can imply not
• 1:09:46
  only is this person creating something of, you know, value to
• 1:09:52
  a like a larger audience in some way, but but that they're
• 1:09:55
  consistently doing something that is green flags.
• 1:09:58
  Like they're they're consistently green flagging.
• 1:10:01
  And I'm more comfortable like tiptoeing into that world of of
• 1:10:05
  interacting with them. Because I feel like if they're
• 1:10:09
  committed to doing something like you had already had some
• 1:10:12
  episodes out and everything, I was like, I would be way more
• 1:10:14
  comfortable doing a blind podcast with you than I would
• 1:10:17
  with someone who wants me to be episode one.
• 1:10:21
  Yeah, I didn't think about. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:23
  Because because I was able to, you know, I was able to suss you
• 1:10:27
  out in a way. I was able to check out your
• 1:10:29
  socials and check out your previous episodes of your
• 1:10:32
  podcast and just kind of make sure that things were above
• 1:10:35
  board. And it could have been that I
• 1:10:37
  was listening to episodes and realized, well, maybe it
• 1:10:39
  wouldn't make sense or something, you know?
• 1:10:41
  To this day, and we're 200 and this would be 229 this episode.
• 1:10:47
  Crazy, Right? Right.
• 1:10:49
  All right. Three years in, I still to this
• 1:10:51
  day, if I if I reached out to someone and then you know,
• 1:10:56
  asking about the show, I just send them all the info.
• 1:10:58
  I'm like, here's, here's a link to to what I do.
• 1:11:02
  Because if they ask that, what's it going to be like, what you're
• 1:11:04
  going to ask me? I don't tell my guests what I'm
• 1:11:06
  going to ask them as a rule, because I like to keep it fresh.
• 1:11:11
  Right. And there's a I think there's a
• 1:11:13
  danger from another person's perspective like what they're
• 1:11:15
  going to interview me. You know, it's dodgy that you
• 1:11:18
  maybe they're going to catch me out.
• 1:11:19
  So there is a leap of faith, a trust exercise there.
• 1:11:23
  But if you watch any of my shows, you'll see I'm not trying
• 1:11:26
  to get anyone. There's no agenda.
• 1:11:28
  I just want to have good conversations.
• 1:11:30
  Good discussions get people thinking and but it takes it
• 1:11:35
  takes trust. You know, and.
• 1:11:39
  You do have to trust people. I remember one time there was an
• 1:11:42
  actress that I reached out to and I was trying to get her on
• 1:11:44
  the show for a long time. I was a big fan of her work and
• 1:11:47
  she sort of messed me about. And one of the things she made
• 1:11:49
  me do and and I I made a rule that I would never accept this
• 1:11:53
  being treated like this again. She made me sit down and write
• 1:11:57
  all the questions I was going to ask her.
• 1:12:01
  And this was like the first year of the show, I think.
• 1:12:03
  And like, I understand to some extent, right?
• 1:12:05
  But like, I'd seen her on another podcast and I was like,
• 1:12:08
  well. You know, I wonder if she asked
• 1:12:10
  them to do do that. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:12:12
  And I hadn't. There was a particular show that
• 1:12:14
  she was involved with which I wasn't going to only ask her
• 1:12:18
  about that. I was going to ask about several
• 1:12:20
  things. But I obliged.
• 1:12:22
  I did it. I was emailing her for like,
• 1:12:25
  several months. She kept telling me, sorry, I'm
• 1:12:27
  busy, we'll get back to you. I'll get back to you.
• 1:12:29
  And eventually I just gave up trying.
• 1:12:31
  I was like, do you know what? Screw this person?
• 1:12:32
  Like, yeah, they made me jump through all these hoops.
• 1:12:35
  And for for what? For nothing.
• 1:12:37
  And. That's the way you have to kind
• 1:12:39
  of look at it. It's like, look, be transparent,
• 1:12:42
  be above board, show what you're offering, but don't let people
• 1:12:45
  kind of dictate or change what you do, you know?
• 1:12:50
  If they can't adhere to your process, then maybe they don't.
• 1:12:55
  They don't want it enough, you know.
• 1:12:57
  But anyway. I want to kind of have a one,
• 1:13:00
  one final kind of point on this to kind of just put a like a
• 1:13:04
  little neat bow under it. What would be, I guess like your
• 1:13:08
  lasting message on this? Because I don't want to kind of
• 1:13:11
  make it sound, I don't know like to me it feels like we've had a
• 1:13:15
  good discussion, but it it's so it feels like being told off,
• 1:13:19
  doesn't it? It's a bit like I don't want the
• 1:13:20
  audience to, the listeners to sit and think like.
• 1:13:23
  Well, I'm not doing that. What?
• 1:13:24
  Because it's none of you, but it's like I think this is more a
• 1:13:29
  general comment on inappropriateness in life in
• 1:13:34
  general. And like relationships,
• 1:13:36
  parasocial relationships are like one.
• 1:13:39
  They they exist and we, we all have them.
• 1:13:43
  That's the thing I should add as well.
• 1:13:45
  If you are a fan of a particular actor, artist, whatever.
• 1:13:50
  And you admire their work, you love what they do.
• 1:13:52
  That's parasocial relationship, right?
• 1:13:54
  So it's not like we're saying it's like a wholly bad thing.
• 1:13:57
  What we're saying here is it can become a bad thing if you make
• 1:14:03
  it a bad thing. And then that's the kind of key
• 1:14:06
  element I want to kind of stress with this, especially from the
• 1:14:09
  boundaries perspective and and and whatnot.
• 1:14:12
  But I want to kind of give you your voice, an opportunity to
• 1:14:15
  say what you want to say on on as a kind of like a final
• 1:14:18
  message on this. Yeah, yeah, I I I get.
• 1:14:22
  I get what you were just saying where you don't want to like
• 1:14:25
  make this feel like a lecture toward our to our streams.
• 1:14:29
  Like I, I I think as I said in that original message that you
• 1:14:34
  read at the beginning, most people are totally great.
• 1:14:37
  They get it and I really appreciate that.
• 1:14:41
  And I think that's that's how it should be.
• 1:14:44
  I think if there's anything I want to emphasize is that I
• 1:14:47
  never want someone to donate to me if they are.
• 1:14:52
  If there's a string attached, just you can't.
• 1:14:55
  And don't don't watch my strings with a string attached.
• 1:14:58
  Don't interact with a string attached.
• 1:15:01
  You just gotta be above board with your intentions, even if
• 1:15:06
  the intentions are you know, I I'm happy to entertain and put
• 1:15:11
  on a good show and hang out with people and I want to keep doing
• 1:15:14
  that. And the best way that I can keep
• 1:15:16
  doing that is by maintaining some very concrete boundaries
• 1:15:19
  that protect myself and make it so that the stream is going to
• 1:15:22
  be a better experience for everyone.
• 1:15:24
  So when I abet people who slide into my Dms and make me
• 1:15:29
  uncomfortable, guess what? When I see their usernames pop
• 1:15:32
  up on my stream, it makes me nervous.
• 1:15:35
  It like I'm getting heart palpitations and it's going to
• 1:15:38
  kill the stream. So, so like even if it's funny
• 1:15:43
  because the very people who might be sliding into my Dms,
• 1:15:46
  they're they're sliding into my Dms because they love my
• 1:15:49
  streams. And by doing that they're
• 1:15:51
  actually inherently changing the streams like they're making it a
• 1:15:55
  worse experience for everyone because they've made me
• 1:15:58
  uncomfortable. So if there's anything I could
• 1:16:00
  say like 2 live streamers never put up with anything that makes
• 1:16:06
  you uncomfortable. And if you are someone who
• 1:16:11
  watches streamers and you have been participating in any of the
• 1:16:16
  activities that we've been describing today, I hope you
• 1:16:20
  take this to heart. And I hope you understand that
• 1:16:22
  we're not here to like point the finger at you and yell at you,
• 1:16:25
  but like we are here to educate you on what the live streamers
• 1:16:29
  perspective is for that. Like sometimes it can feel
• 1:16:31
  legitimately almost like maybe threatening is a strong word but
• 1:16:35
  like I just it makes me uneasy sometimes and and so I guess I
• 1:16:40
  guess the final words I would say is just just treat a live
• 1:16:46
  streamer like you would somebody you you meet at a party or
• 1:16:52
  something. Just like be nice to them and
• 1:16:55
  don't don't try to like encroach upon their private life.
• 1:17:01
  Don't try to put them on the spot.
• 1:17:03
  And please try to maintain healthy expectations of the kind
• 1:17:10
  of interactions you're going to have with that streamer.
• 1:17:14
  And you know what if you are hoping to watch a streamer
• 1:17:20
  regardless of who the streamer is and you're watching them in
• 1:17:23
  the hopes that you're going to be like close friends with them
• 1:17:26
  you might want to stop watching their streams like it.
• 1:17:29
  It's not healthy. It's not healthy.
• 1:17:30
  It's it's a similar level of unhealthy as like if you're
• 1:17:34
  watching every movie that Chris Pratt is in in the hopes that
• 1:17:38
  you can get closer to Chris. Pratt, maybe you should evaluate
• 1:17:43
  what's going on there. Is it Chris Pratt or is it you
• 1:17:47
  know maybe you should seek some kind of support from people that
• 1:17:51
  you know are actually close to you in your life and and and
• 1:17:55
  maybe even like legitimately seek therapy.
• 1:17:58
  Like it's it's important to be selfaware be very selfaware of
• 1:18:02
  like when you join a live stream what is your game plan.
• 1:18:06
  Are you here to like be entertained by a streamer and
• 1:18:08
  have a fun time and interact with the chat or are you here
• 1:18:12
  with the expressed interest of like placing the dominoes to
• 1:18:17
  become best friends with them or be in a relationship with them.
• 1:18:21
  Like, I think, I think everybody needs to look inward.
• 1:18:23
  Include me like, I joined in other people's streams.
• 1:18:25
  And I need to make sure, like, I'll watch people's streams and
• 1:18:28
  be like, man, I want to be friends with this person.
• 1:18:30
  And there are times where it could be appropriate to, like,
• 1:18:34
  try to get to know them more. And there are other times where
• 1:18:36
  it's like, you know what they're doing, their job.
• 1:18:38
  They're on the clock. And it's like when you go to a
• 1:18:42
  barista at a coffee shop, you don't walk up to her and be
• 1:18:45
  like, do you want to be friends with me?
• 1:18:46
  She's kind of captive in the moment.
• 1:18:48
  It's a little bit, like, tricky to deal with that situation.
• 1:18:52
  But maybe after three years of having coffees at the, you know,
• 1:18:56
  at the coffee shop, maybe you're like, ah, you know, if you're
• 1:18:59
  interested in maybe going to this group, yeah, you know, like
• 1:19:02
  it's it's it's difficult to navigate, it's very difficult.
• 1:19:05
  But like when you're dealing with a captive person, you gotta
• 1:19:09
  be careful. I'll I'll add to that just real
• 1:19:11
  quick, because I think it's a really, really important point.
• 1:19:15
  Like if you are a fan of someone and then it transitions into a
• 1:19:19
  friendship, I think you have to realize that you can't.
• 1:19:24
  So you can't be a fan of them anymore per se, but you have to
• 1:19:28
  change your behavior. Because you're getting to know
• 1:19:31
  the person. Like, for example, I'm a huge
• 1:19:33
  wrestling fan. Like I mentioned before, if I
• 1:19:35
  was going to become a friend of like one of my favorite
• 1:19:38
  wrestlers, I can't be sitting there the whole time being like,
• 1:19:41
  Oh my God, Oh my God, you were amazing.
• 1:19:43
  And I'm not saying that everyone would do that, but like, you
• 1:19:46
  have to be like, oh okay, we're friends now.
• 1:19:49
  This is the same as it would be anyone else in my life.
• 1:19:53
  You know, you kind of have to realize them in the same way.
• 1:19:56
  Right. And and I think it speaks to a
• 1:19:58
  bigger point, you should never put any other human being on a
• 1:20:00
  pedestal, regardless of who they are.
• 1:20:03
  You know, I I said earlier. That's.
• 1:20:05
  About the fact that I'm just a guy, I'm just a person, you
• 1:20:09
  know, and and and you're just a lady and that's and that's it,
• 1:20:12
  right? And and it's it's right and it's
• 1:20:15
  amazing to be appreciated for the things that you do.
• 1:20:17
  But just don't put anyone on the pedestal, guys.
• 1:20:20
  We're all the same, you know. We all sleep at night.
• 1:20:22
  We all eat. We're the same.
• 1:20:24
  Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah.
• 1:20:27
  Anyway, massive thank you for appearing on the show.
• 1:20:31
  And I don't know, I think we tackled this this pretty well.
• 1:20:35
  So it's an interesting kind of deep dive.
• 1:20:37
  Thank you again for inviting me. I think this is an important
• 1:20:40
  discussion to have, and I'm sure we only scratched the surface,
• 1:20:43
  but. Absolutely.
• 1:20:44
  It is definitely very. It's it's a deep discussion to
• 1:20:49
  have and it's a tricky 1. So it was a pleasure to talk to
• 1:20:52
  another streamer about it because I know you get it and
• 1:20:56
  and and hopefully to anyone who does watch my streams, if you're
• 1:21:00
  listening, I, you know, I appreciate you taking the time
• 1:21:03
  to to join today's podcast episode and I hope that you know
• 1:21:07
  if you're feeling called out, I want you to look inward and
• 1:21:11
  think about why you're feeling called out.
• 1:21:13
  And if you're not feeling called out, then it probably means
• 1:21:15
  you're a bunch of green flags. So thank you so much.
• 1:21:19
  Massive thank you as always. And to yeah, to everyone who's
• 1:21:23
  who's listened to the show, who's watched the show, thank
• 1:21:25
  you so much. Really appreciate you couldn't
• 1:21:28
  do it without you guys. So thank you so much.
• 1:21:31
  If you want to support the show, get access to bonus content and
• 1:21:36
  my Patreon exclusive series Life with Christian Reeve, go
• 1:21:39
  subscribe to patreonpatreon.com/christian
• 1:21:42
  Reeve. There'll be a link below.
• 1:21:45
  To Jane's work, Princess Etch's work all in one place.
• 1:21:49
  That'll be in the bio, in the description, as well as links to
• 1:21:52
  my Discord, links to Instagram, YouTube, everything you could
• 1:21:55
  ever possibly need. It's all in the description.
• 1:21:57
  Check the description. Thank you so much everybody.
• 1:22:00
  Be safe, be well and to see you in the next one.