Latest / The Restaurant Guys / Martini Expo | Part 1: Salvatore Calabrese, Liam Davy, and Charlotte Voisey

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Martini Expo | Part 1: Salvatore Calabrese, Liam Davy, and Charlotte Voisey · The Restaurant Guys

• 0:42
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: Hello everybody and welcome.
• 0:43
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: You are listening to the Restaurant guys.
• 0:46
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: I'm Mark Pascal and he's Francis Shot.
• 0:48
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: Together, we own Stage Left and Kale Lombardi restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey.
• 0:52
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life.
• 0:56
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: Well, hello, mark.
• 0:57
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: Hey Francis.
• 0:57
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: How are you?
• 0:58
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: I'm great.
• 0:58
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: I'm excited for a couple of reasons.
• 1:00
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: This was great shows we're about to have, we are starting a series of great shows.
• 1:05
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: These were all shows that we recorded at the Martini Expo, which was put together by Robert Simonson and Mary Kate Mary of the mix in Industry City in Brooklyn.
• 1:13
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: The most, the most important people in the cocktail world we're in one place and we talked to all of them in one.
• 1:19
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: While drinking martinis, which is why it was one of our best shows, three of our best shows really ever.
• 1:24
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: Yeah.
• 1:25
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: So today we're gonna air for you, our interviews with Salvatore Calabrese
• 1:29
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163037: one of the most important cocktail makers in the world.
• 1:32
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163037: He is the invent of the Duke Martini and the breakfast martini.
• 1:35
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163037: Uh, the breakfast martini.
• 1:36
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163037: Yep.
• 1:37
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: We're gonna talk to Liam Davy from London, also from Hawks, more Hawks, more restaurant, and Charlotte Voisey, who is the new, head honcho at, tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans.
• 1:48
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: It was nice to see her.
• 1:49
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: At an event that's not her responsibility.
• 1:51
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: It was great.
• 1:52
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: I think she had a good time not being responsible as well.
• 1:55
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: Exactly.
• 1:55
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: So we're gonna start off talking to Robert Simonson about the martini expo that he helped to create and will be a little bit irresponsible.
• 2:03
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_162633: Hmm.
• 2:04
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: And today we have with us to launch our special series, our three part series of all the amazing interviews we did at the Martini Expo in Industry City in Brooklyn.
• 2:13
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Robert Simonson is himself, is here to join us.
• 2:17
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Robert, welcome to the show.
• 2:18
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: What an amazing event.
• 2:19
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: I am so excited for people to see the next three shows so they could see what an amazing yeah.
• 2:25
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Event that you had.
• 2:26
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: It was really cool, Robert.
• 2:29
  Robert Simonson: Oh, thank you very much.
• 2:30
  Robert Simonson: And, and thank you guys for being there.
• 2:32
  Robert Simonson: You guys were the official podcasters and you were there for hours on end, interviewing all the, uh, greatest names and cocktails.
• 2:41
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Dude, it was amazing.
• 2:42
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: You had people from all over the world.
• 2:43
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: We couldn't, yeah, we couldn't interview all the greatest names in cocktails.
• 2:45
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: We didn't have, we only had four hours.
• 2:46
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: there was a, the place, I mean, the place was just filled.
• 2:51
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: With tremendous cocktails from all around the world.
• 2:53
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: And the restaurant guys were there and every time the door, like we'd finish a short brief interview with somebody really brilliant, the door would open and then somebody else was standing outside the door.
• 3:01
  Robert Simonson: Yeah.
• 3:01
  Francis: is, this is gonna be a three part series we're doing today.
• 3:03
  Francis: Thursday is also gonna be, from the Martini Expo.
• 3:06
  Francis: And then Saturday we have a show that, uh, is gonna be partially behind a paywall.
• 3:10
  Francis: And if you wanna become a member of the restaurant, guys, this is as good a time as any because you'll miss the hijinks of Dale Degra crashing into the restaurant guy booth.
• 3:18
  Francis: Uh, and you guys at the, at the end and I'll, I'll be honest with you, Robert, at the end of the Martini Expo, everybody's a little more lubricated than they were at the beginning.
• 3:27
  Robert Simonson: Yeah, that was my impression.
• 3:29
  Robert Simonson: You know, we didn't actually get, uh, into your booth.
• 3:32
  Robert Simonson: Until the very end, I think it was like seven, between seven 30 and eight or
• 3:36
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Yeah.
• 3:37
  Robert Simonson: David Wonders was already sitting with you.
• 3:39
  Robert Simonson: And I'm not sure why we were let in, but we were let in.
• 3:43
  Robert Simonson: It was me and Mary Kate, and also Lisa Laird.
• 3:48
  Robert Simonson: we sat there and we, we, we chimed in from time to
• 3:51
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Well, frankly, Robert there was
• 3:52
  Robert Simonson: you instructed, them to shut the door and not let anybody
• 3:57
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: close that door is what I said.
• 3:59
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Robert, there was no lock on that door.
• 4:01
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: I was surprised it didn't happen sooner.
• 4:03
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Okay.
• 4:04
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: With all the martinis flowing and all the people who were there.
• 4:06
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Little surprised we didn't get Get gate crashed prior to the.
• 4:10
  Robert Simonson: Yeah, no, I, I told you I was gonna do my Bob Hope routine and I did, you know, crashing the Johnny Carson show.
• 4:16
  Robert Simonson: I.
• 4:16
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: So I want to, um.
• 4:19
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: I wanna keep this brief because the show you put on is the center of our next three days of podcasts.
• 4:25
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: what's your takeaway?
• 4:27
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: after this very successful event?
• 4:29
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Um, it seemed to me different than any other event that's been done.
• 4:33
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Um, what's your, what's your, what's your read on what everyone's gonna be hearing over the course of the next couple of episodes?
• 4:40
  Robert Simonson: Well, I'm happy to say that I think, uh, we actually accomplished what we set out to do.
• 4:46
  Robert Simonson: Um, we got this idea for this scheme about six months ago, and we started putting it together about four months ago with the help of, uh, an event planner called Claire Burton Lang, who has a lot of experience in, uh, staging booze shows.
• 5:01
  Robert Simonson: And, uh, we basically wanted to do, three things.
• 5:04
  Robert Simonson: Well, first of all, it goes without saying we wanted to honor the martini and the culture of the Martini, and we thought it deserved its own convention, but we also wanted to gather together all of our OG friends from the cocktail revival in one room, that includes you guys.
• 5:21
  Robert Simonson: we got people like Dale DeGraff and Julie Reiner, and Salvatore Calabrese and all these wonderful people, and the great distillers too, just to kind of like, you know.
• 5:30
  Robert Simonson: get the gang back together and have ano have another party like in the old days.
• 5:35
  Robert Simonson: second thing we wanted to do is we wanted to stage a cocktail convention the way they used to be 15 years ago when they were smaller in scale, more idiosyncratic, more human, more warm like that.
• 5:47
  Robert Simonson: And the third thing that we wanted to do is just bring more attention to our wonderful substack that Mary Kate and I created The Mix.
• 5:56
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Yeah, Mary Kate can't be with us.
• 5:58
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: She was hopefully gonna be with us but Mary Kate is your partner both at The Mix, which is wonderful and we share a lot of.
• 6:03
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: And, putting on the Martini Expo.
• 6:04
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: So kudos to you guys on that.
• 6:06
  Robert Simonson: Yeah, Mary Kate and I, uh, founded The Mix and, uh, we came up with the idea for the martini Expo together, and we were both there on the floor.
• 6:15
  Robert Simonson: You saw us
• 6:15
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Mm-hmm.
• 6:16
  Robert Simonson: around like chickens with our heads
• 6:17
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: you were, uh, you were, you were controlled, Inanity.
• 6:20
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:21
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Uh, so my, my question that has to be asked to you is.
• 6:26
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Why the martini?
• 6:27
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Why was the martini so important that it was the focus of this great event that brought all these bartenders together from around the world for one drink, one cocktail.
• 6:37
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: That's amazing.
• 6:38
  Robert Simonson: Well, if you're gonna choose one drink to build a convention around, it's gotta be the martini.
• 6:43
  Robert Simonson: It's the most famous cocktail.
• 6:44
  Robert Simonson: It's the one cocktail that has.
• 6:47
  Robert Simonson: Not just, uh, history, but a whole culture built around it.
• 6:50
  Robert Simonson: You know, writers have written about it, painters have painted it.
• 6:54
  Robert Simonson: poets have sung ode to it.
• 6:57
  Robert Simonson: And there's so much debate about it that I figured, you know, you take another cocktail and say, well, can we actually come up with eight seminars about this one cocktail?
• 7:08
  Robert Simonson: And maybe not.
• 7:09
  Robert Simonson: But with the martini, there was no problem.
• 7:12
  Robert Simonson: And also because we're.
• 7:14
  Robert Simonson: the middle of a martini zenith, there martinis are everywhere, everyone's drinking them, and there are so many different versions.
• 7:23
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: is the great backlash or backwater or turning point from this?
• 7:29
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: No.
• 7:29
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: And low movement everywhere.
• 7:31
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Everything is low alcohol, low alcohol, and then the martini is rising.
• 7:35
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: And what I wanna say is what I was a little worried about and kudos to you, you had a martini expo that went on for days and.
• 7:41
  Robert Simonson: Uh, a day and a
• 7:43
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Well, it was an evening and evening dinner before, but then it went on for a whole day into the evening.
• 7:48
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Uh, I did not see much drunkenness.
• 7:51
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: I, I saw people better behave that at other more general cocktail, uh, events.
• 7:55
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: I saw a lot of people not.
• 7:58
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Taking selfies everywhere for Instagram.
• 8:00
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: And I saw a huge diversity of ages.
• 8:03
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: I saw young people, I saw old guys like us, uh, and everything in between.
• 8:08
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: And, uh, I, I think that the, there really is a renaissance around this drink.
• 8:12
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: And I just going in the face of low and no into high and mighty, uh, which is what the martini is.
• 8:20
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Uh,
• 8:20
  Robert Simonson: high and mighty
• 8:21
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: I thought that was incredible.
• 8:22
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: People were immersed in the moment.
• 8:24
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Yeah.
• 8:25
  Robert Simonson: Yeah.
• 8:26
  Robert Simonson: Um, uh, that was a thing we were worried about early on, you know, I mean, is it a good idea to serve people martinis all day long?
• 8:34
  Robert Simonson: but we did, uh, we were very careful about it.
• 8:36
  Robert Simonson: Um, for one thing, uh, we knew that the martini would attract a certain kind of CLI clientele, so let's just call them more mature, more sophisticated, more adult.
• 8:47
  Robert Simonson: uh, they're not, they weren't gonna come there, you know, to get
• 8:50
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: So the Jager meister, so the Jagermeister Festival would might've been more of a concern for that.
• 8:55
  Robert Simonson: That's right.
• 8:56
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: I'm very upset.
• 8:57
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: There was not a martini ice luge.
• 9:00
  Robert Simonson: oh, um, you know what, that was suggested at one point and I said, no, we are not having a luge.
• 9:06
  Robert Simonson: That is not the message we're trying to send.
• 9:09
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Excellent.
• 9:09
  Robert Simonson: We did have a nice sculpture though, but no
• 9:11
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: You did.
• 9:12
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: I do want to ask you the question, and, and people are gonna hear this question to, uh, from most of our, our luminaries.
• 9:19
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: What was the moment in your life where you said, wow, this martini is an important cocktail?
• 9:25
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: It, I, I'm, I need to know more about this.
• 9:28
  Robert Simonson: Oh, that's a tough question because I began drank drinking them a long time ago.
• 9:33
  Robert Simonson: I remember I started thinking about them more seriously in 2018 and 2019 because.
• 9:40
  Robert Simonson: Places like, uh, the Grill, you know what used to be the Four Seasons, they reopened and they had this very serious martini menu.
• 9:48
  Robert Simonson: And so it made me think about Martini martinis more.
• 9:52
  Robert Simonson: And then that just kept happening.
• 9:54
  Robert Simonson: And of course, during COVID, we were all making martinis for ourselves at home.
• 9:58
  Robert Simonson: And then you really have to think about, well, what do I like?
• 10:01
  Robert Simonson: You know, what proportions, what garnish?
• 10:04
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Well, I think you're.
• 10:06
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Event was a tremendous success and we're really glad that you invited us to be the official podcasters thereof, and we got some great material with some of the most important people from across the ocean, from here, from across the continent, and we're looking forward to talking with them all.
• 10:20
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Everybody needs to strap in for what's about to happen.
• 10:23
  Robert Simonson: Yeah, you guys managed to talk to, um, all the big names.
• 10:26
  Robert Simonson: I think they were all in there.
• 10:28
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: We didn't get drunk until after.
• 10:29
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: So, Robert, thanks for joining us to launch.
• 10:32
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_153513: Let's go listen to everybody else in the cocktail world of the Martini Expo 2025.
• 10:38
  Francis: So we have snagged from the party here here at Martini Expo at Industry City.
• 10:41
  Francis: We have with us, the Dean of London Cocktail, Salvatore Calabrese.
• 10:45
  Francis: Ooh, that's wonderful to have you here, uh, with us in New York.
• 10:48
  Salvatore: Thank you.
• 10:48
  Salvatore: Thank you, Francis Maestro.
• 10:50
  Francis: Welcome to the restaurant.
• 10:50
  Francis: Oh,
• 10:51
  Salvatore: got
• 10:51
  Francis: got, thank you.
• 10:52
  Francis: To invite
• 10:53
  Salvatore: me.
• 10:53
  Mark: You
• 10:53
  Francis: know.
• 10:53
  Francis: Well, we, we have so many mutual friends in common for so many years.
• 10:57
  Francis: I've heard your name, I've read about You're the inventor of the breakfast martini, your thank you famous tenure at the Playboy Club and now all around the world.
• 11:04
  Francis: It's, uh, it's a nice to meet you in person.
• 11:05
  Mark: So one of the things I wanted to share with you is, so my wife and I last, winter went, were in London.
• 11:13
  Mark: We're wandering around.
• 11:14
  Mark: as you obviously know, a lot of wonderful, wonderful bars in London.
• 11:18
  Mark: And one of the places that, that Dale sent me to and said, you must try, uh, was a place I I was unfamiliar with.
• 11:26
  Mark: It's a place called Donovan Bar.
• 11:27
  Mark: Yes, and I, we wandered into Donovan Bar and I was like, what little slice of heaven have I entered right here?
• 11:36
  Mark: And the cocktails were amazing and the bartenders were fantastic and super well trained.
• 11:41
  Mark: I will say, I, I know that, you know, your name carries a, a lot of weight and people really recognize every place that, that you consult for, but I, feel like that place is one of, it's one of my top five cocktail experiences of my life.
• 11:57
  Mark: Oh, thank you.
• 11:57
  Mark: And I just, I like, people should be talking about Donovan Barmore.
• 12:00
  Francis: Yeah.
• 12:00
  Francis: So what was your philosophy at Donovan Barr?
• 12:02
  Francis: How did you
• 12:02
  Salvatore: bring that together?
• 12:02
  Salvatore: Well, the, the Donovan Bar, you know, I took on that bar in 2017.
• 12:07
  Salvatore: Right.
• 12:08
  Salvatore: And uh, um, and what interest me the most, it was, uh, the Donovan Bar is not what you saw today.
• 12:16
  Salvatore: It was totally a different bar, but there is so much history in that bar.
• 12:21
  Salvatore: I, and I got fascinated.
• 12:24
  Salvatore: The, the Bronze Hotel is one of the oldest hotel, well, the oldest hotel in London, 1832 has an incredible history behind.
• 12:33
  Salvatore: And, um, so I.
• 12:36
  Salvatore: For, well, I love history, and what a better way to recreate legacy and recreate a bar when in one of the most historical hotel in the world, you know, the Brown Hotel where people from Agatha Christie from, uh, uh, Winston Church or Queen Victoria, anyone, uh, Bel, you know, uh, the Jungle Book was written in there.
• 13:00
  Salvatore: So there is so much history that is overwhelming.
• 13:03
  Salvatore: The very first telephone call was made there.
• 13:06
  Salvatore: The electricity.
• 13:07
  Salvatore: I mean, there won't be no enough words to fulfill that book regarding what Brown Total is.
• 13:12
  Salvatore: So when I took over that bar, I designed the bar, you know, I also had my own entrance, the entrance that wasn't there before.
• 13:22
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 13:22
  Salvatore: And I want to create the theater.
• 13:24
  Salvatore: I always say one, the one of the most beautiful part of a bar is the theater aspect.
• 13:30
  Salvatore: Uh, you walk in and you have to fill that soul, you have to fill that bit.
• 13:34
  Salvatore: And that goes, it only comes from, uh, great service, great hospitality, great welcome and fill.
• 13:41
  Salvatore: What bar should only be about, you know, I think today what we do, we trying to strip.
• 13:46
  Salvatore: The bar.
• 13:47
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 13:47
  Salvatore: With trying to take away the stool away from the bar.
• 13:50
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 13:50
  Salvatore: I want the stool at the bar.
• 13:52
  Salvatore: I'm trying to, you know, bartender, they're no talkative, you know, they shake for themselves.
• 13:59
  Salvatore: They don't shake for the, for the customer.
• 14:01
  Salvatore: Well,
• 14:01
  Francis: that I just wanna.
• 14:02
  Francis: If I had a T, we had a t-shirt made that says, don't shake for yourself.
• 14:06
  Francis: Shake for the customer.
• 14:07
  Francis: Yeah, it did.
• 14:09
  Mark: Did just as simple as eye contact.
• 14:10
  Mark: Eye contact.
• 14:12
  Mark: The simplest you truthfully, Salvatore and I had never met today.
• 14:17
  Mark: Okay.
• 14:17
  Mark: As we walked through the room together, we both made eye contact.
• 14:20
  Mark: Contact, contact each and that's
• 14:22
  Salvatore: and for, I wanna know that guy.
• 14:27
  Salvatore: No,
• 14:27
  Francis: you were the Dean of Cocktails in the UK and especially in London as London became a cocktail city.
• 14:32
  Francis: So we started our bar early on when Dale was still at the Rainbow Room, 1992.
• 14:37
  Francis: And we watched and were a part of the New York community.
• 14:40
  Francis: But it was very interesting to us as cocktails came from nowhere.
• 14:44
  Francis: To the Rainbow Room and then to a few other places.
• 14:47
  Francis: And we were one of those few other places.
• 14:49
  Francis: And then this community grew up in New York, but then like a dark horse, London came out of the ba out of the, from the rear of the race and for a while overtook New York.
• 14:59
  Francis: Oh yeah.
• 14:59
  Francis: As the worlds center of the cocktail.
• 15:00
  Francis: And now I think New York and London are neck and neck and there's also so many other cities in the world, like Chicago and Hong Kong.
• 15:05
  Francis: But.
• 15:06
  Francis: What made London bars different?
• 15:08
  Francis: 'cause London, the London cocktail scene was and is materially different than the New York cocktail scene.
• 15:13
  Salvatore: Um, I think, you know, the, uh, I hope I have helped in 1990, in the nineties, you know, the cocktail culture, it was very du and, uh, I think with few of of my friends, you know, Dick Brandel.
• 15:30
  Salvatore: Peter Durelli, we changed the culture.
• 15:32
  Salvatore: We really revamped the, the cocktail culture, I think in the nineties was the golden age.
• 15:40
  Salvatore: Yes.
• 15:40
  Salvatore: Of the cocktail culture.
• 15:41
  Salvatore: And I think, uh, I hope I helped as well because I start to, like Dale, I start to change the attitude of cocktail making.
• 15:49
  Salvatore: When before the, when you were making a cocktail, it was like cooking.
• 15:54
  Salvatore: You will pick up the worst wine that there was.
• 15:57
  Salvatore: Right?
• 15:57
  Salvatore: Right.
• 15:58
  Salvatore: To cook, right?
• 15:59
  Salvatore: Sure.
• 15:59
  Salvatore: The cheapest one.
• 16:00
  Salvatore: Right now, they don't do that anymore.
• 16:02
  Salvatore: And the same again with with cocktail.
• 16:04
  Salvatore: You were making a Manhattan, you would go and choose the worst whiskey or the one that it would cost you the less, right?
• 16:11
  Salvatore: Right.
• 16:11
  Salvatore: You would do a gin and tonic.
• 16:13
  Salvatore: You would go and pick up the worst gin.
• 16:15
  Salvatore: So what I did, I thought, you know what makes a cocktail?
• 16:19
  Salvatore: What is the canvas of great?
• 16:21
  Salvatore: Cocktail is the spirit.
• 16:23
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 16:23
  Salvatore: So therefore it needs respect.
• 16:25
  Salvatore: So I start to change the attitude by putting into cocktail the.
• 16:31
  Salvatore: Premium spirits.
• 16:32
  Salvatore: Yeah.
• 16:32
  Salvatore: Not the cheapest spirit.
• 16:33
  Salvatore: Yeah.
• 16:33
  Salvatore: Right.
• 16:34
  Salvatore: And those
• 16:35
  Mark: matter, right.
• 16:35
  Mark: It's, it's, it's a part of every great restaurant.
• 16:38
  Mark: Of course in the last 30 years.
• 16:39
  Mark: Those ingredients, you can use
• 16:41
  Francis: cooking technique to make mediocre food taste good, but you can use it to make good food, taste great, and great food taste also.
• 16:47
  Francis: And it's all about ingredient.
• 16:48
  Francis: And the
• 16:48
  Salvatore: spirits was the same.
• 16:49
  Salvatore: And then I start to use fresh ingredient.
• 16:52
  Salvatore: Yeah.
• 16:52
  Salvatore: I start to bring in unusual ingredient like, uh, you know, my breakfast martini is one of the most iconic Yeah.
• 16:58
  Salvatore: Cocktail ies.
• 16:59
  Salvatore: We'll put the
• 16:59
  Francis: re not.
• 17:00
  Francis: If anybody el bartenders know your recipe martini because it's part of the canon, but for non bartenders listening, we'll put the recipe in the show notes for that.
• 17:06
  Francis: Oh, thank you.
• 17:07
  Francis: Which I created in 1996.
• 17:09
  Salvatore: Actually, funny enough, when I launched my very first book in 97, I took the rainbow room.
• 17:18
  Salvatore: Uhhuh with Dale DeGroff.
• 17:20
  Salvatore: That was my first time that I met Dale, my American, uh, you know, Sterling from which I had an American publisher, uh, asked me, I said, where do you want to launch your book?
• 17:32
  Salvatore: You know, I said, well, I always heard about Dale DeGroff, the other person across the Atlantic that is making a difference in a cocktail world.
• 17:41
  Salvatore: So I therefore, I would like to go to the Rainbow Room.
• 17:43
  Salvatore: So we decide,
• 17:44
  we got in touch with Dale.
• 17:46
  He knew about me and
• 17:48
  Salvatore: what we did, we connect and uh, we launched my very first book at the Rainbow Room.
• 17:53
  Salvatore: And that was the very first popup bar that there was internationally.
• 17:57
  Salvatore: That's amazing.
• 17:59
  Salvatore: It was fantastic.
• 17:59
  Salvatore: There was no other, you know, and we made that kind of a unique night and we.
• 18:04
  Salvatore: Present and now I serve my breakfast Martina at that time with Dale, you know, and that was, that was great.
• 18:10
  Salvatore: You know, and if
• 18:11
  Francis: the very first pop cocktail popup bar in the world was Salvatore Calabrese and Dale De the Rainbow Room, that's a lot going on in one room.
• 18:18
  Francis: That's the center of the cocktail universe.
• 18:19
  Francis: And there was no
• 18:19
  Salvatore: such a thing as such, you know, to international bar meat to each other and spend an incredible, great night at that time.
• 18:26
  Salvatore: We
• 18:27
  Francis: are three old guys in at this point.
• 18:28
  Mark: Oh, right.
• 18:29
  Mark: Is that We're not, yeah.
• 18:30
  Mark: So Salvato.
• 18:31
  Mark: We are at the the Martini Expo, so we gotta talk for about martinis and, and we've already mentioned your breakfast martini, but what was the martini experience you had that made you say, this cocktail's important, this needs to be part of, well,
• 18:43
  Salvatore: martini, to be honest with you, changed my life.
• 18:45
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 18:46
  Salvatore: It made who I am today without the martini.
• 18:48
  Salvatore: Maybe I wouldn't be here talking today.
• 18:50
  Salvatore: And that was in 1985.
• 18:52
  Salvatore: I used to work at the Dukes.
• 18:53
  Salvatore: I worked at the Dukes Hotel from 1982 to 19 95, 12 years to 12, very happy year.
• 19:00
  Salvatore: And.
• 19:01
  Salvatore: In 1985, you know, I already start to make a name for myself, a more for vintage spirits.
• 19:07
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 19:07
  Salvatore: I come up with this idea and concept to sell liquid history as something that nobody else was doing in the world.
• 19:13
  Salvatore: And by in 1985, I always said it took God six days to create the world.
• 19:20
  Salvatore: It took me five to create the perfect master and why.
• 19:24
  Salvatore: Because it took me five days to fulfill the expectation of this customer.
• 19:29
  Salvatore: His name was a stunt and de plane who was staying at hotel.
• 19:33
  Salvatore: And from the very first day that he came to the bar, he asked, and he was a two martini man.
• 19:39
  Salvatore: He asked, may I have a very cold, um, but very dry martini.
• 19:44
  Salvatore: And I said, of course, Mr.
• 19:45
  Salvatore: Dalea plate.
• 19:46
  Salvatore: So you what I did, I took the mixing glass, I put ice in the mixing glass, make, put the gin, put the vermer, and then stir.
• 19:54
  Salvatore: To make a very, very, very cold.
• 19:56
  Salvatore: Obviously, I over diluted to the cocktail.
• 19:58
  Salvatore: Sure.
• 19:59
  Salvatore: My martini.
• 20:00
  Salvatore: And he used to say, yes, this is cold enough, but it's not dry enough.
• 20:04
  Salvatore: So the second drink, you know, because he, as I say, he was a too martini man.
• 20:09
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 20:09
  Salvatore: I used to do more dry and less cold.
• 20:11
  Salvatore: And then he used to never complain, but he was making a remark.
• 20:16
  Salvatore: Like he was happy but not happy a hundred percent.
• 20:20
  Salvatore: And he was happy because he was finishing his drink, right?
• 20:23
  Salvatore: And he would say, yeah, this now is dry enough, but it's not cold enough.
• 20:27
  Salvatore: And every day was the, the dejavu the same and it was the same scenery.
• 20:32
  Salvatore: So much so that by the third day I start to have a nightmare.
• 20:36
  Salvatore: How can I fulfill the expectation of this person that every day tells me the same thing, right?
• 20:42
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 20:42
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 20:43
  Salvatore: So on the fourth day, right, you have to understand well.
• 20:46
  Salvatore: Either five days, the fourth days, it was a Friday where they were serving fish and chips down to the staff canteen.
• 20:54
  Salvatore: And uh, I went down there to have lunch and I noticed a kitchen port, a portal, whatever.
• 21:00
  Salvatore: One guy, he was a very fussy how much more vinegar wine he wanted on his chip.
• 21:06
  Salvatore: And there was, it was used in the dash bottle that it was used, and they used to move the chips away from the plate and just for boom.
• 21:14
  Salvatore: One dash of Moat Wine, right?
• 21:15
  Salvatore: The milk vinegar wine on that.
• 21:17
  Salvatore: And you used to eat the chip.
• 21:19
  Salvatore: And I thought, that's clever.
• 21:20
  Salvatore: Now I know how to control the dryness.
• 21:23
  Salvatore: And so I took that bottle, that dash bottle upstairs in the bar, washed it and put the dry IAF in there.
• 21:31
  Salvatore: Now how do I hell, I'm gonna make a cold unless I'm going to over stir it.
• 21:36
  Salvatore: So the Dukes bar for 12 years, I washed my own glass by hand.
• 21:39
  Salvatore: I had a sink, and then under the sink there was a picnic basket that I had my eyes and a little station.
• 21:47
  Salvatore: And a little domestic fridge, where in this domestic fridge there was a little freezer.
• 21:53
  Salvatore: So I.
• 21:54
  Salvatore: A bottle of gin and two glasses.
• 21:57
  Salvatore: It was big enough for one bottle of gin and two glasses.
• 22:00
  Salvatore: 'cause Mr.
• 22:01
  Salvatore: Delaplane always had two Martine.
• 22:02
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 22:03
  Salvatore: So on the fifth day, Mr.
• 22:04
  Salvatore: Delaplane came to the bar and as his usual, you know, it was like a broken record.
• 22:10
  Salvatore: He said, may I have a.
• 22:11
  Salvatore: Very dry, a very cold martini.
• 22:13
  Salvatore: I said, okay.
• 22:14
  Salvatore: So I took the glass away from the freezer.
• 22:17
  Salvatore: You know, obviously I already prepare my mixing glass with ice, making it.
• 22:21
  Salvatore: So I took the glass from the freezer and it was very, very cold, icy cold.
• 22:25
  Salvatore: Oh wow.
• 22:26
  Salvatore: So I took the bottle from the freezer.
• 22:29
  Salvatore: I don't ask me why, you know, I open the bottle and then it says to put it in the mixing glass.
• 22:34
  Salvatore: I put directly in the glass'cause I didn't want that glass to get warm.
• 22:39
  Salvatore: So I pull it straight into the glass, and then I pick up the dashboard and lay the VE on top.
• 22:45
  Salvatore: And remember that.
• 22:47
  Salvatore: The Verma has to play his part in the, in the martini.
• 22:51
  Salvatore: It has to have the aroma.
• 22:52
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 22:53
  Salvatore: It has to have that taste like an Irish coffee.
• 22:56
  Salvatore: I lay the Verma on top.
• 22:58
  Salvatore: Okay.
• 22:58
  Salvatore: And he will stay on top.
• 22:59
  Salvatore: So when Mr.
• 23:00
  Salvatore: Dela plane was smelling it, he could strength the ver the vine and then taste there.
• 23:07
  Salvatore: So he took one sip.
• 23:08
  Salvatore: He finished the first martini and didn't complain, didn't say anything.
• 23:13
  Salvatore: Wow.
• 23:13
  Salvatore: He asked for the same again.
• 23:15
  Salvatore: So because he did not complain, I made it the same way, the direct way.
• 23:19
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 23:19
  Salvatore: He took one sip and walked away.
• 23:21
  Salvatore: I said, for Christ sake, my, this guy, what have I done now every day, you know, he is man, you know, complain that, you know, yes, dry enough, not cold enough.
• 23:30
  Salvatore: Cold enough, not dry enough, you know?
• 23:31
  Salvatore: But at least this time it didn't even.
• 23:33
  Salvatore: Moan didn't even complain.
• 23:35
  Salvatore: He just walked away.
• 23:36
  Salvatore: Okay.
• 23:37
  Salvatore: But then a few hours later, he came back down and introduced himself, who he was.
• 23:42
  Salvatore: Stan Deplane, a very famous journalist.
• 23:44
  Salvatore: He used to write for the San Francisco Colon.
• 23:46
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 23:47
  Salvatore: Los Angeles Town, New York Times.
• 23:49
  Salvatore: I freelance a very famous person and he says, Salvato, I enjoyed your martini so much so that I wrote an article and show me the facts in this.
• 23:57
  Salvatore: Uh.
• 23:57
  Salvatore: If you ever go to London, you must make a stop at the Dukes bar where Salvato will make you the best martini in the planet.
• 24:05
  Salvatore: And that was the beginning.
• 24:06
  Salvatore: 'cause every time he came to London, the Dukes martini was his stop and he was talked about the martini and everything else that it was, and the legacy beginning.
• 24:17
  Salvatore: That's, that's smart.
• 24:18
  Salvatore: So much so that the, you know, the legacy still stand, you know, the Dukes is still famous for the martini, but through that I met, uh, uh, many iconic people.
• 24:27
  Salvatore: Sean Connery came for the martini.
• 24:29
  Salvatore: Everyone who is a martini obviously have to
• 24:32
  Mark: have a Dukes martini,
• 24:33
  Salvatore: even a majesty.
• 24:34
  Salvatore: You know, I could truly say, you know, my martini has a royal crest.
• 24:37
  Salvatore: How a person can say they have the royal crest for the martini.
• 24:41
  Salvatore: I do.
• 24:42
  Salvatore: You know,
• 24:42
  Mark: so for everybody listening out there.
• 24:47
  Mark: People complaining is not nearly as powerful as when you go to a customer and say, how's everything?
• 24:54
  Mark: And they say.
• 24:55
  Mark: Everything's fine.
• 24:57
  Mark: Yeah, right.
• 24:57
  Mark: Everything's fine Is like a dagger.
• 25:00
  Mark: Yeah, it's like a dagger.
• 25:01
  Mark: That means something is still fun.
• 25:03
  Mark: Yeah.
• 25:03
  Mark: I worked really hard.
• 25:04
  Mark: I don't want
• 25:05
  Francis: fine.
• 25:05
  Mark: Yeah, no, no.
• 25:06
  Mark: I want something more superlative.
• 25:08
  Francis: Right.
• 25:09
  Francis: And to just review.
• 25:10
  Francis: So what Sal, I said that you, if you're, if you haven't been paying attention out there and listener land, yes.
• 25:15
  Francis: It's just a freezer martini, but with no dilution.
• 25:18
  Francis: Mm-hmm.
• 25:18
  Francis: When all these freezer martinis that are popular now people are working in the dilution you would get from staring it.
• 25:24
  Francis: So yours is just.
• 25:25
  Salvatore: Well, there is a little dilution, to be honest with you, because what I do, obviously I perfected my dry martini.
• 25:31
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 25:32
  Salvatore: So, and that's what I used to do even in the eighties.
• 25:35
  Salvatore: I used to put a dash of water in the martini.
• 25:38
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 25:38
  Salvatore: In the martini glass.
• 25:38
  Salvatore: In the glass.
• 25:39
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 25:40
  Salvatore: Toasting it, right?
• 25:41
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 25:41
  Salvatore: And then leave it in the fridge.
• 25:44
  Salvatore: In the freezer.
• 25:45
  Salvatore: So whenever I used to make the martini, that was done.
• 25:48
  Salvatore: The five milliliter of dilution Yep.
• 25:51
  Salvatore: That you want, that you usually encounter.
• 25:54
  Salvatore: And an added
• 25:54
  Mark: coldness at the same time.
• 25:55
  Mark: Yeah.
• 25:55
  Mark: But
• 25:55
  Salvatore: because it was cold, I mean, there was, have you ever heard the Sta um.
• 26:00
  Salvatore: Es No, ES was a very, very famous journalist.
• 26:06
  Salvatore: A, a writer actually.
• 26:07
  Salvatore: He, after Ian Fleming, he was the first one who took over from Ian Fleming and start to write a book about James Bond.
• 26:15
  Salvatore: Bond.
• 26:15
  Salvatore: Yes.
• 26:16
  Salvatore: And he was uh, I would say an earnest em anyway, but with an English attitude, Uhhuh.
• 26:22
  Salvatore: And he used to come at the Dukes in the eighties.
• 26:24
  Salvatore: He used to wear his blazer and he used to wear this cavat.
• 26:28
  Salvatore: Like you, you know, a man of a presence.
• 26:31
  Salvatore: Both of you, you know, Uhhuh a man with a presence.
• 26:34
  Salvatore: Then he used to ask for the bloody mirror, used to ask for Manhattan, but then the martini, and once he wrote an article in Illustrate London New, and he said, uh.
• 26:45
  Salvatore: I find of a bar with a bartender to match how difficult there is to,, to create a well-balanced dry martini, which stays cold enough all throughout the drinking period.
• 26:57
  Salvatore: And that is what is the secret, is a gray martini is not just how you make it, but how you maintain the temperature mm-hmm.
• 27:05
  Salvatore: All throughout the drinking period.
• 27:06
  Salvatore: Because remember, it doesn't matter about the dilution, it doesn't matter how you do it.
• 27:11
  Salvatore: But anything that becomes to be warm, the alcohol start to kick.
• 27:17
  Salvatore: And you want to make sure that, the heart, the soul of that drink stays into that drink.
• 27:23
  Francis: Alright, final question.
• 27:24
  Salvatore: Okay.
• 27:25
  Salvatore: Ah.
• 27:25
  Francis: When we were young bartenders, which means when you were a young bartender, people used to order martinis.
• 27:30
  Francis: Half the time they were on the rocks, and half the time they were up.
• 27:33
  Francis: The martini on the rocks is all the forgotten.
• 27:36
  Francis: Yes.
• 27:36
  Francis: Is it justifiably forgotten or is it overlooked?
• 27:39
  Salvatore: Well, I think, you know, I think it's justifiable.
• 27:43
  Salvatore: you know, gone.
• 27:45
  Salvatore: Because when you ask for martini on the rocks, that means it's pugin or pew vodka.
• 27:51
  Salvatore: You actually drink V vodka on the rocks.
• 27:54
  Salvatore: Mm-hmm.
• 27:54
  Salvatore: That means it's over diluted, It's, you lose the elegant, remember the glassware is like seeing a beautiful woman who walks through the bar and she's all elegant, dressed up.
• 29:33
  Salvatore: That is the martini glass, that is the elegancy of a Martin, and the martini
• 29:36
  Francis: on the rocks is sweatpants and a sweat and short trousers.
• 29:40
  Francis: Yeah, fair enough.
• 29:41
  Francis: It's okay.
• 29:42
  Francis: Salvatory Calabresi, thank you for taking the time out at Marchini Expo and cinema us.
• 29:45
  Francis: What a pleasure talking to you.
• 29:46
  Francis: Thank you.
• 29:46
  Francis: Oh, come on
• 29:46
  Salvatore: guys.
• 29:47
  Salvatore: Um, thank you very much to invite me and, uh, I hope you can come.
• 29:51
  Salvatore: To the Donovan again, I promise.
• 29:52
  Salvatore: And, uh, enjoy my house.
• 29:56
  Salvatore: Thank you.
• 29:57
  Salvatore: We will.
• 29:58
  Salvatore: Thank you so much, Francis.
• 29:58
  Salvatore: Thank you.
• 29:58
  Salvatore: Thank God bless you man.
• 29:59
  Salvatore: Thanks so much.
• 30:02
  Liam Davy: So we've doved back into the party here at the Martini Expo and we've grabbed Liam Davy to come talk with us for a while.
• 30:07
  Liam Davy: Liam is the director of one of our favorite cocktail programs of a steakhouse, but not an individual steakhouse.
• 30:12
  Liam Davy: A steakhouse chain hawks.
• 30:14
  Liam Davy: More in the uk.
• 30:15
  Liam Davy: It's great to call it a chain.
• 30:16
  Liam Davy: We we go, we say group.
• 30:19
  Liam Davy: That was unfair.
• 30:19
  Liam Davy: Definitely not changing.
• 30:20
  Liam Davy: Cheers came at the martini.
• 30:29
  Liam Davy: When I say, I'm not kidding that we like hawks more, our Christmas present to each other.
• 30:35
  Liam Davy: Either last year or the year before was gift certificates to Hawks more.
• 30:38
  Liam Davy: Oh it's, that's actually a true story.
• 30:39
  Liam Davy: So we would all go out to dinner at Hawks More together.
• 30:40
  Liam Davy: You guys know me now so you don't have to worry about gift certificates anymore.
• 30:42
  Liam Davy: We, so, by the way, comes straight to the source and the hero of that story is Hawks more because Mark called me a couple of months later and said, we're going out with the Paisanos.
• 30:49
  Liam Davy: Can I have that gift certificate back?
• 30:51
  Liam Davy: That's true.
• 30:53
  Liam Davy: True story.
• 30:54
  Liam Davy: The gift certificate I gave him for Hawks more, I took and used You used used both of them.
• 30:59
  Liam Davy: I love that.
• 30:59
  Liam Davy: We'll make sure you guys got some S in the, alright, dude, you're, you're.
• 31:03
  Liam Davy: And I have been to several Hawks Mores in your group.
• 31:06
  Liam Davy: And I was at the one in Dublin.
• 31:08
  Liam Davy: I was traveling with a friend and we walked in.
• 31:10
  Liam Davy: You had just opened.
• 31:11
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 31:12
  Liam Davy: And it was so disappointing'cause it was late and we didn't have time to have dinner.
• 31:15
  Liam Davy: We wanted to have a drink at your beautiful bar.
• 31:17
  Liam Davy: Yeah, but they told us that your permitting wasn't place.
• 31:20
  Liam Davy: Oh, the license is a nightmare there.
• 31:21
  Liam Davy: So that Oh, I know.
• 31:22
  Liam Davy: Dublin's a nightmare.
• 31:23
  Liam Davy: Wait, so what they said was, so there were people drinking at tables and they said, yeah, our license only permits drinking if you're having dinner.
• 31:31
  Liam Davy: That is so unfair.
• 31:32
  Liam Davy: Grab some snails.
• 31:32
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 31:33
  Liam Davy: I mean there's, there's two things there.
• 31:35
  Liam Davy: One of which is trying to tell Dublin as they can't have a drink is pretty hard.
• 31:38
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 31:39
  Liam Davy: And American transplants to Dublin, same thing.
• 31:41
  Liam Davy: Exactly.
• 31:41
  Liam Davy: And secondly, you know, that building used to be for what it was before.
• 31:44
  Liam Davy: Mm-hmm.
• 31:44
  Liam Davy: It was, it was an Abercrombie and Fitch.
• 31:46
  Liam Davy: Oh.
• 31:46
  Liam Davy: And you can still occasionally smell the kind of, the sort of musk odor from time to time.
• 31:50
  Liam Davy: So.
• 31:51
  Liam Davy: Well that's, that's lovely.
• 31:52
  Liam Davy: And you just tell people that it's an ingredient in the martini.
• 31:55
  Liam Davy: It's a special vermouth we use.
• 31:56
  Liam Davy: Exactly.
• 31:57
  Liam Davy: Alright, so listen, one of the things that's really interesting is we just, you, you just passed Salvato Calabrese on the way out the door.
• 32:02
  Liam Davy: Yes.
• 32:02
  Liam Davy: And it's very, and it's one of the things that's lovely about this particular event is it really has a lot of an international, group of people who've come here.
• 32:10
  Liam Davy: The Martini is an international drink and the two leading cities of the world that led the cocktail revolution were London and New York.
• 32:16
  Liam Davy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:17
  Liam Davy: Why are you here?
• 32:18
  Liam Davy: Did you fly across the ocean for this?
• 32:20
  Liam Davy: How important is this?
• 32:21
  Liam Davy: What about the martini?
• 32:22
  Liam Davy: I do, I'm very, so, I'm very lucky to come over to the US uh, three or four times a year, normally, sometimes more, uh, to work with our restaurants over here.
• 32:29
  Liam Davy: And one of the first things we really wanted to do at Hawkes More in New York when we opened was, you know.
• 32:34
  Liam Davy: We're a British company, people were, were expecting us not to be able to compete on the steak front, but also could we compete on the martini front.
• 32:40
  Liam Davy: And so everything we've done in that bar has always been about elevating the martinis as high as possible and trying to make the best possible martini in the city.
• 32:48
  Liam Davy: Why did you focus on martinis?
• 32:49
  Liam Davy: Because that that is becoming an increasingly post COVID important part of the cocktail lexicon.
• 32:54
  Liam Davy: It was always there for the OGs for the baseline.
• 32:56
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 32:57
  Liam Davy: But now it's like there's a martini mania and you guys were ahead of that curve.
• 33:00
  Liam Davy: We were slightly, I mean, when we got here in 2020, just before COVID, um, I love the idea that our drinks list feels like an old school steakhouse.
• 33:10
  Liam Davy: Like an old school American steakhouse.
• 33:12
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 33:12
  Liam Davy: And, and all of the drinks are coated in that way, but we still use modern techniques to try and elevate them to be world-class cocktail bar drinks.
• 33:19
  Liam Davy: Mm-hmm.
• 33:19
  Liam Davy: So you can, you look, it looks and feels like you're in a steakhouse, but the drinks are.
• 33:24
  Liam Davy: I would say better than you would get in your average steakhouse.
• 33:26
  Liam Davy: Certainly.
• 33:27
  Liam Davy: Um, and the martini for us was always the kind of the key one to get right.
• 33:29
  Liam Davy: That for me is the drink that's most synonymous with baseline steakhouse experience.
• 33:33
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 33:33
  Liam Davy: I think that's got, that's exactly right.
• 33:34
  Liam Davy: It's a baseline, but I think Francis being a little unfair because your cocktail program is extraordinary.
• 33:40
  Liam Davy: Oh, that's, it's extraordinary.
• 33:43
  Liam Davy: It was one of my favorite places to have a cocktail in New York City.
• 33:47
  Liam Davy: For, for a while now.
• 33:48
  Liam Davy: I think you, you really have elevated.
• 33:50
  Liam Davy: There are a lot of great cocktails, great garnishes, a great focus on garnishes that make the drink better.
• 33:55
  Liam Davy: Thank you.
• 33:56
  Liam Davy: I really appreciate That's nice to, which is a total pet peeve of mine is, is the whole world of garnishes that are for pretty Yeah, yeah.
• 34:02
  Liam Davy: And, and not just, not for inside, inside baseball to make the cocktail better.
• 34:06
  Liam Davy: We, our staff came up with a cocktail and there's, it's a lovely cocktail, but it's just, they wanted a little bit of a gold leaf on top of a big cube.
• 34:12
  Liam Davy: And it hurts Mark's soul every time that cocktail goes out.
• 34:15
  Liam Davy: It actually is beautiful.
• 34:16
  Liam Davy: So we let it go and they're like, but you can eat it.
• 34:19
  Liam Davy: He's like, but you shouldn't eat it.
• 34:20
  Liam Davy: There's no reason.
• 34:21
  Liam Davy: Make it better.
• 34:22
  Liam Davy: Make it better.
• 34:22
  Liam Davy: We have, so we're a little bit hypocritical.
• 34:24
  Liam Davy: We have one cocktail in the history of our restaurant that has a but, but.
• 34:28
  Liam Davy: Right after our own hearts.
• 34:29
  Liam Davy: Right.
• 34:29
  Liam Davy: We have two restaurants in the same building and one of them is a steakhouse.
• 34:32
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 34:33
  Liam Davy: And since 1993, we have prided ourselves on, you are going to start with a great cocktail.
• 34:41
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 34:41
  Liam Davy: And then maybe you're gonna move on to a glass of champagne.
• 34:43
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 34:43
  Liam Davy: And then we're gonna have a wonderful wine list for you.
• 34:46
  Liam Davy: And you're gonna have some of the best stakes in the world.
• 34:49
  Liam Davy: That's, that's gonna be part of the experience.
• 34:51
  Liam Davy: But I think that one of the ways the world has changed is.
• 34:57
  Liam Davy: Great cocktails are expected.
• 34:59
  Liam Davy: You want to be a great restaurant.
• 35:01
  Liam Davy: Great cocktails are part of that experience, right?
• 35:02
  Liam Davy: You don't need the cocktail bar around the corner before you go to the nice restaurant that doesn't have a good cocktail bar.
• 35:06
  Liam Davy: I completely agree with you, but I do think that as cocktails have got gotten more expensive and more esoteric mm-hmm.
• 35:13
  Liam Davy: That for a lot of people they've, the first thing to go from their, from their order is.
• 35:17
  Liam Davy: They just ditch the cocktail or they go somewhere else for a drink beforehand.
• 35:20
  Liam Davy: And I think part of that is leaving a little bit, leaving your ego at the door and realizing what people actually want from a steakhouse experience.
• 35:26
  Liam Davy: They want a great martini.
• 35:27
  Liam Davy: Yeah, they want an amazing old fashioned, they want a great house Bloody Mary.
• 35:30
  Liam Davy: They want a good champagne cocktail.
• 35:32
  Liam Davy: You know, those simple drinks.
• 35:33
  Liam Davy: That doesn't mean that you can't be creative in how you make those better, but those drinks themselves need to be very clear what they're, and so our martini, our house martini has, you know, gin vermouth.
• 35:42
  Liam Davy: A little bit lemon oil and water and that's it.
• 35:44
  Liam Davy: You know, we're not adding loads of extra stuff in there, but we just, it's a few techniques that make that a really brilliant martini, and that's, I think, what people, we think people want.
• 35:52
  Liam Davy: I think you can mess with the martini as long as you already have a, a great martini on your list.
• 35:58
  Liam Davy: I think you can have a secondary martini that is, is interesting and different and has the little quote marks around martinis.
• 36:06
  Liam Davy: Don't worry about that.
• 36:06
  Liam Davy: We got plenty.
• 36:08
  Liam Davy: Everyone you need, you need to know how to paint a horse before you can paint an abstract horse and taken seriously.
• 36:15
  Liam Davy: What a lovely, what a lovely analogy.
• 36:16
  Liam Davy: I think, I think my art history professor's gonna be mad at me when she hears that, but, well, no, I do wanna say though, and I think you guys were really, you caught a wave you.
• 36:25
  Liam Davy: Hmm.
• 36:25
  Liam Davy: And you maybe you helped to make the wave, but I think in steakhouses,'cause you know, Dale.
• 36:32
  Liam Davy: When, when we used to go, we used to have a, a lunch club called The Red Meat Club.
• 36:36
  Liam Davy: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:36
  Liam Davy: In 1993 to 2000, and we went out to lunch on the second Monday of every month.
• 36:41
  Liam Davy: All restaurant people.
• 36:43
  Liam Davy: And there were only certain things you were, there were certain cocktails that were allowed to be had before lunch.
• 36:48
  Liam Davy: Tell me what they are.
• 36:49
  Liam Davy: Uh, martini Manhattan.
• 36:50
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 36:51
  Liam Davy: Bloody.
• 36:51
  Liam Davy: Bloody Mary.
• 36:52
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 36:52
  Liam Davy: And Dale had a cold one day.
• 36:54
  Liam Davy: So tea with lemon and some brandy in it.
• 36:56
  Liam Davy: Okay.
• 36:56
  Liam Davy: He's always, he's always skipping his round.
• 37:00
  Liam Davy: Give an acceptable, you know, when Dale wants something, you change the rules.
• 37:02
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 37:02
  Liam Davy: That's, that's how that works.
• 37:03
  Liam Davy: Um, so I think the martini is central to a steakhouse because what's a steakhouse at the center of a great steakhouse has to be really good quality meat stripped down.
• 37:13
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 37:13
  Liam Davy: And the artifice of the chef.
• 37:15
  Liam Davy: It's just not fucking it up.
• 37:17
  Liam Davy: Right.
• 37:17
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 37:17
  Liam Davy: And that's a martini as well.
• 37:19
  Liam Davy: Hundred percent.
• 37:20
  Liam Davy: And the other thing, I think what you said earlier is people are drinking less, but better.
• 37:23
  Liam Davy: There is an aesthetic where people are drinking less alcohol.
• 37:26
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 37:26
  Liam Davy: They're having fewer drinks in the course of a night going out to dinner.
• 37:30
  Liam Davy: Fewer times.
• 37:30
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 37:31
  Liam Davy: But they're drinking better and we're selling a ton of caviar.
• 37:34
  Liam Davy: Mm-hmm.
• 37:34
  Liam Davy: We're selling expensive steaks and martinis are that it's, I'm gonna have.
• 37:39
  Liam Davy: A potent three and a half ounce drink.
• 37:42
  Liam Davy: Amazing.
• 37:42
  Liam Davy: Start my day.
• 37:43
  Liam Davy: But something you said a minute ago I agree with mostly, but I'm seeing some younger people.
• 37:50
  Liam Davy: Ride cocktails all the way through the dinner now.
• 37:53
  Liam Davy: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:53
  Liam Davy: That kind of, kind of come in, have a cocktail and just ride cocktails all the way through.
• 37:57
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 37:58
  Liam Davy: I think, listen, people ask all the time about matching cocktails and food and as someone who literally makes cocktails for a living, I'm not gonna do myself, you know, dirty and say, don't.
• 38:06
  Liam Davy: Drink cocktails with food.
• 38:07
  Liam Davy: But my personal view is particularly in the kind of steakhouse environment, that wine goes better with steak than, than cocktails do, if I'm honest.
• 38:13
  Liam Davy: But all of the bits around that, and that's what we, we do really at Hawkes more, it's particularly the pre dinner part, but also the after dinner part and maybe like a little sipper in between.
• 38:22
  Liam Davy: You know what, what, whatever you.
• 38:23
  Liam Davy: Feel that's, that's the occasion for that.
• 38:25
  Liam Davy: But you know, I think if, if you like cocktails and wanna drink them with your steak, then fantastic.
• 38:28
  Liam Davy: Yeah, no, I, I'm with, and, and if you're gonna drink a cocktail with your steak Mar martini's, the best one.
• 38:32
  Liam Davy: So since we're at the Martini Expoo, can I ask you a couple of martini specific questions?
• 38:36
  Liam Davy: Please Go for it.
• 38:37
  Liam Davy: This is a international, uh, bi continental, um, opinion.
• 38:41
  Liam Davy: So here's a question for you.
• 38:42
  Liam Davy: I'm What makes a martini a martini?
• 38:46
  Liam Davy: Because we're seeing all sorts of variations of martini.
• 38:48
  Liam Davy: So we'd all admit that a martini made the saki instead of vermouth is still a martini.
• 38:51
  Liam Davy: Yeah, but a martini with grapefruit juice and cranberry juice and Grenadine is no longer a martini.
• 38:57
  Liam Davy: What makes a martini a martini?
• 38:59
  Liam Davy: Do you know what?
• 39:00
  Liam Davy: I don't think there's a, a definitive answer to that.
• 39:02
  Liam Davy: I just don't.
• 39:03
  Liam Davy: I don't Coward coward, and I'm not, I'm not entirely, I'm not entirely sure.
• 39:06
  Liam Davy: It matters really for me, martinis.
• 39:09
  Liam Davy: Is is clear?
• 39:10
  Liam Davy: Yep.
• 39:11
  Liam Davy: Um, it's made with a white spirit.
• 39:12
  Liam Davy: Yep.
• 39:13
  Liam Davy: Probably gin and vodka, but I've had some great tequila martinis.
• 39:15
  Liam Davy: I've had some, and with the other weirder spirits, I think it's just, you know, I, the debate's fun if people, I'm not, I'm not curious.
• 39:22
  Liam Davy: That's why we're having it.
• 39:23
  Liam Davy: I'm not, I'm not a, and also I don't really want to kind of, uh, overlay my opinions onto, onto other people.
• 39:27
  Liam Davy: So I would say gin, gin and vodka mixed with something kind of.
• 39:31
  Liam Davy: Wine.
• 39:32
  Liam Davy: Wine based.
• 39:33
  Liam Davy: Very cold.
• 39:34
  Liam Davy: Said straight up.
• 39:35
  Liam Davy: That's smart.
• 39:35
  Liam Davy: I seen you.
• 39:35
  Liam Davy: I would say clear.
• 39:36
  Liam Davy: All of those things.
• 39:37
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 39:37
  Liam Davy: And no juice.
• 39:38
  Liam Davy: You add juice and you've changed it.
• 39:39
  Liam Davy: What do you think?
• 39:40
  Liam Davy: So it's Olive Bryan juice.
• 39:41
  Liam Davy: Are we calling it?
• 39:42
  Liam Davy: No, olive.
• 39:42
  Liam Davy: Brown is not juice.
• 39:43
  Liam Davy: It's an old magical thing in its own category.
• 39:46
  Liam Davy: Look at now, you're making up.
• 39:47
  Liam Davy: I talk.
• 39:48
  Liam Davy: Well understand.
• 39:48
  Liam Davy: We make stuff up.
• 39:49
  Liam Davy: I mean, the problem is if you try and make rules after having like three martinis.
• 39:54
  Liam Davy: So we're really looking forward to the, the later people that we interview.
• 39:57
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 39:57
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 39:57
  Liam Davy: It's gonna be a mess who have, who have been cocktailing for, for more hours.
• 40:01
  Liam Davy: So my question to you is, what's the Martini Expoerience that changed the way you look at martinis?
• 40:06
  Liam Davy: Oh, that's a wonderful question.
• 40:07
  Liam Davy: So we've got, uh, Dale behind the bar, just over the road from us.
• 40:11
  Liam Davy: Mm-hmm.
• 40:11
  Liam Davy: Um, I used to work, um, for a company in London called Match Bar Milk, which is part of the Milk and Honey group.
• 40:16
  Liam Davy: Yep.
• 40:17
  Liam Davy: Um, and Dale used to be our kind of consultant.
• 40:19
  Liam Davy: He'd come over a couple of times a year and, and make drinks for us.
• 40:21
  Liam Davy: And I remember going into Milk and Honey one night when he was behind the bar and he was making, he was making the drinks and he made a martini.
• 40:27
  Liam Davy: And I think that was the first time I'd seen someone kind of, it was made with such confidence in such prash that I think even before I'd tasted it, you knew it was gonna be amazing and it felt really special.
• 40:37
  Liam Davy: And for me, the martinis net should never be about kind of throwing things over.
• 40:40
  Liam Davy: It's quite fun having an an airport martini or a dive by martini from time to time.
• 40:44
  Liam Davy: But a great martini about that kind of, that confidence and style that someone puts into it.
• 40:48
  Liam Davy: Before, you had Salvatore in here just before me.
• 40:51
  Liam Davy: I think if you come to certain bars in London, like the con where they really put loads of mm-hmm.
• 40:55
  Liam Davy: Our, our other favorite bar.
• 40:56
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 40:56
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 40:57
  Liam Davy: And Dukes and all these fantastic places where they kind of, it really, you know, you.
• 41:00
  Liam Davy: You feel incredible.
• 41:01
  Liam Davy: It makes you feel incredible before you've even sipped it.
• 41:03
  Liam Davy: And so that for me is the kind of the art of the martini I say.
• 41:05
  Liam Davy: Okay.
• 41:06
  Liam Davy: Two quick questions and, and we'll let you go back to the party.
• 41:08
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 41:09
  Liam Davy: Um, because I see you still have martini left, so just still time that we can ask you questions, you know.
• 41:13
  Liam Davy: Oh, now it's gone.
• 41:14
  Liam Davy: Alright, so, um.
• 41:16
  Liam Davy: Standard serve of a martini.
• 41:18
  Liam Davy: How many ounces or send liters of booze should go into it before staring, before dilution?
• 41:23
  Liam Davy: Hmm.
• 41:23
  Liam Davy: Okay.
• 41:23
  Liam Davy: So I would say, so actually in the UK we have, we set them slightly smaller than we do here because you slightly bigger, um, I think three ounces of booze plus a little bit of a moose is about, is about right.
• 41:33
  Liam Davy: For me, the worst thing about a martini when it's.
• 41:36
  Liam Davy: Insufficiently diluted.
• 41:38
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 41:38
  Liam Davy: I think you need to make sure the dilution correct.
• 41:40
  Liam Davy: Unless you're having Duke star martinis, which we're gonna be, we're doing right.
• 41:43
  Liam Davy: I was gonna say, you and Salvatore are gonna go, but I think that, I think that with that you can get it so cold and if you can keep it really cold, then it's great.
• 41:50
  Liam Davy: I don't know if you had this phase in, in the uk, but we had here in the.
• 41:54
  Liam Davy: Late eighties and through the nineties, we went through the huge martini glass, the seven ounce martini, and better fill it to the top.
• 42:00
  Liam Davy: I've had a few, I've a few of those in Chicago when they, and they're big and they're quite daunting and I'm just like, and, and first and the second half of them is terrible though.
• 42:07
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 42:07
  Liam Davy: It's, the second half is terrible.
• 42:09
  Liam Davy: It's warm and you're loaded.
• 42:10
  Liam Davy: Right.
• 42:11
  Liam Davy: Okay.
• 42:11
  Liam Davy: And then, uh, final question, Kaball question.
• 42:15
  Liam Davy: When we started bartending in 19 86, 87, yikes.
• 42:19
  Liam Davy: people would order martinis and half the time they'd be up and half the time they'd be on the rocks.
• 42:24
  Liam Davy: Yeah, on the rocks.
• 42:24
  Liam Davy: Martini is dead.
• 42:26
  Liam Davy: Is it dead for a good reason or should it is it overlooked.
• 42:29
  Liam Davy: My guilty pleasure, my favorite.
• 42:31
  Liam Davy: Drink that I ever have is not in the bar.
• 42:33
  Liam Davy: It's not in the restaurant.
• 42:34
  Liam Davy: It's at home when I'm cooking and if I'm making a martini for myself at home, I'll stir it and I'll pour it onto a big block of ice and I'll drink it while I'm cooking because the kitchen's hot.
• 42:42
  Liam Davy: It's quite nice to have it kind of, it dilutes slowly and it just makes it much sense.
• 42:46
  Liam Davy: Francis is looking, looking very with contempt.
• 42:49
  Liam Davy: No, no.
• 42:52
  Liam Davy: Nice.
• 42:52
  Liam Davy: A nice big block of ice.
• 42:53
  Liam Davy: Not kind of like dive bar rice, but you know, it's delicious.
• 42:56
  Liam Davy: It tastes great.
• 42:57
  Liam Davy: Mark.
• 42:57
  Liam Davy: Mark.
• 42:57
  Liam Davy: Got that all wrong.
• 42:57
  Liam Davy: I wanna get invited over.
• 42:58
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 42:59
  Liam Davy: One of the things I think is a lost art of the martini is when people used to have those cylindrical pictures.
• 43:04
  Liam Davy: Yeah.
• 43:04
  Liam Davy: And you'd put two martinis where the martini in there and drink the first one really strong and keep drinking as it gets colder.
• 43:09
  Liam Davy: But anyway, uh, thank you for the insight.
• 43:11
  Liam Davy: Thanks for taking the time outta this pleasure Liam gave from Hawks.
• 43:14
  Liam Davy: It has been a true pleasure to talk to you.
• 43:15
  Liam Davy: Thank you very much.
• 43:16
  Liam Davy: we really do love your places.
• 43:18
  Liam Davy: We look forward to having a Martin together at some point.
• 43:20
  Liam Davy: Sounds great.
• 43:21
  Liam Davy: Forward to it.
• 43:21
  Liam Davy: Sounds great.
• 43:22
  Liam Davy: Thank you very much.
• 43:23
  Liam Davy: Thanks for coming in.
• 43:23
  Liam Davy: Cheer guys.
• 43:24
  Liam Davy: Thanks.
• 43:25
  Francis: Hey there.
• 43:26
  Francis: So we have come back now with Charlotte Voie, who we've stolen from the party.
• 43:29
  Francis: Uh, sorry for pulling you outta the martini party, but you have to talk to the restaurant guys when you're, here's Charlotte was a, a guest on the show just recently.
• 43:36
  Francis: Yeah.
• 43:37
  Francis: And Charlotte runs Tales of the Cocktail, which is the largest cocktail conference in the world.
• 43:42
  Francis: And here you are, in Brooklyn at the.
• 43:46
  Francis: Martini Expo.
• 43:47
  Francis: The Martini Expo, which is all about one specific drink, the martini.
• 43:51
  Francis: Um, what are you, what are your thoughts of
• 43:54
  Charlotte Voisey: today?
• 43:54
  Charlotte Voisey: I love this.
• 43:55
  Charlotte Voisey: I mean, Robert Simonson, and they came up with this idea to do a martini party, a martini expo in New York, and the industry said, sure, why not?
• 44:04
  Charlotte Voisey: Why haven't we done this before?
• 44:05
  Charlotte Voisey: But don't you think it's, I mean, I don't think there's a, another single, like a margarita party wouldn't have been like this.
• 44:12
  Charlotte Voisey: This is a, this is the most sophisticated.
• 44:14
  Charlotte Voisey: A margarita party would've been much messier than this.
• 44:16
  Charlotte Voisey: Oh yeah.
• 44:16
  Charlotte Voisey: It would've been fun.
• 44:17
  Charlotte Voisey: Okay.
• 44:18
  Charlotte Voisey: However, you're right.
• 44:19
  Charlotte Voisey: But do you know what, it's funny, I was afraid when I thought coming into this, and let's say it's Robert Simonson and Mary Kate.
• 44:24
  Charlotte Voisey: As well who put this together.
• 44:27
  Charlotte Voisey: Yes, absolutely.
• 44:27
  Charlotte Voisey: Uh, super important to mention, but yes, I was talking with Dale last night actually, Uhhuh, because he crashed at my place on the way over here, and we said, so tomorrow's gonna be great.
• 44:37
  Charlotte Voisey: It's gonna be great.
• 44:37
  Charlotte Voisey: He's given a seminar.
• 44:39
  Charlotte Voisey: We're doing podcasts.
• 44:39
  Charlotte Voisey: Mm-hmm.
• 44:40
  Charlotte Voisey: A lot of our friends are gonna be here, but we're like.
• 44:43
  Charlotte Voisey: It's gonna be messy, isn't it?
• 44:45
  Charlotte Voisey: People are gonna be erected.
• 44:46
  Charlotte Voisey: And we thought, you know, a martini is a very strong drink to be doing seven hour festival over, but nobody's wrecked.
• 44:54
  Charlotte Voisey: It's actually super civilized.
• 44:55
  Charlotte Voisey: It's very civilized.
• 44:57
  Charlotte Voisey: It's super civilized.
• 44:58
  Charlotte Voisey: It's shockingly civilized.
• 44:59
  Charlotte Voisey: Well, and I've noticed that the martinis being served are in little tiny mm-hmm.
• 45:03
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 45:03
  Charlotte Voisey: Teeny martini glasses, which helps, I think that's very responsible.
• 45:06
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 45:06
  Charlotte Voisey: And you know, people are here to learn.
• 45:08
  Charlotte Voisey: They're here to network Talk.
• 45:10
  Charlotte Voisey: So I think, you know, that helps.
• 45:12
  Charlotte Voisey: But people aren't just here to drink.
• 45:14
  Charlotte Voisey: They're here to learn and understand.
• 45:17
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 45:17
  Charlotte Voisey: And, and connect with industry friends.
• 45:19
  Charlotte Voisey: So it's true.
• 45:20
  Charlotte Voisey: You know what Mark and I were saying earlier that because, okay, so you've just taken over running tales of the cocktail, right?
• 45:25
  Charlotte Voisey: Mm-hmm.
• 45:26
  Charlotte Voisey: But we have seen, met each other at, at different tales of the cocktail.
• 45:29
  Charlotte Voisey: In your different iterations of your career for 20 years or more.
• 45:33
  Charlotte Voisey: Yes.
• 45:34
  Charlotte Voisey: Yes.
• 45:34
  Charlotte Voisey: And we, we were saying, is this Oh, you were like 14.
• 45:37
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 45:38
  Charlotte Voisey: Oh yeah.
• 45:38
  Charlotte Voisey: Ab, absolutely.
• 45:39
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 45:40
  Charlotte Voisey: So this feels like an early tales of the cocktail.
• 45:43
  Charlotte Voisey: Would you agree with that?
• 45:44
  Charlotte Voisey: It's, it's got that same reunion feel, right?
• 45:47
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 45:47
  Charlotte Voisey: I think anytime that industry friends and peers can get together, and we have some international guests here as well, a lott.
• 45:53
  Charlotte Voisey: It's not just New York, right?
• 45:54
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 45:54
  Charlotte Voisey: This is a lovely turnout.
• 45:56
  Charlotte Voisey: I think anytime you get that moment of connection.
• 45:59
  Charlotte Voisey: Um, a little bit of education, some great cocktails.
• 46:02
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 46:02
  Charlotte Voisey: It's got that tales feel because it's the, it's a reunion.
• 46:06
  Charlotte Voisey: Well, the other thing though is I think tales is, the flagship event of the cocktail world.
• 46:10
  Charlotte Voisey: Yes.
• 46:10
  Charlotte Voisey: And we have an awards dinner.
• 46:11
  Charlotte Voisey: We have a, this is a very small event, and I think it's, I think this event may grow, but it's again, being about one drink, a seminal drink.
• 46:20
  Charlotte Voisey: A foundational drink.
• 46:21
  Charlotte Voisey: Yep.
• 46:21
  Charlotte Voisey: Um.
• 46:22
  Charlotte Voisey: it's a much smaller scale, but very serious at the same time.
• 46:26
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 46:27
  Charlotte Voisey: It's interesting'cause it is about one specific cocktail writing.
• 46:30
  Charlotte Voisey: It's creepy, right?
• 46:31
  Charlotte Voisey: I guess.
• 46:32
  Charlotte Voisey: Others people might think, is there really that much to talk about?
• 46:35
  Charlotte Voisey: But there is, because we're talking about the martini, which dates back to the what?
• 46:39
  Charlotte Voisey: Mid to late 18 hundreds.
• 46:40
  Charlotte Voisey: Yep.
• 46:40
  Charlotte Voisey: Right.
• 46:40
  Charlotte Voisey: Yet we're still talking about it today.
• 46:43
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 46:43
  Charlotte Voisey: And there are still so many iterations of the martini, but at the same time, there's so much reverence around this iconic cocktail.
• 46:50
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 46:51
  Charlotte Voisey: That you almost feel like people are.
• 46:54
  Charlotte Voisey: Not scared, but careful.
• 46:56
  Charlotte Voisey: Right.
• 46:56
  Charlotte Voisey: With the way they riff on the martini, because if you take it too far, it's no longer a martini's.
• 47:00
  Charlotte Voisey: So there's lot of reference.
• 47:01
  Charlotte Voisey: You're taking him right to his first question, but the martini's an important cocktail.
• 47:05
  Charlotte Voisey: This is, this is, it's the most important cocktail.
• 47:08
  Charlotte Voisey: It is, it is the most important cocktail was gonna say there are a couple of questions we've been asking everybody and you led me right to it, so, okay.
• 47:14
  Charlotte Voisey: So the question is, what is a martini?
• 47:18
  Charlotte Voisey: Oh, and that's very, that's a dangerous questions.
• 47:19
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah, exactly.
• 47:20
  Charlotte Voisey: So, uh, lemme lay out the parameters.
• 47:23
  Charlotte Voisey: Yep.
• 47:23
  Charlotte Voisey: So we would all agree that if you swap, swap out the vermouth for sake, you're still in martini territory.
• 47:29
  Charlotte Voisey: We would all agree that if you had cream and uh, cranberry juice, you are, no.
• 47:34
  Charlotte Voisey: You have left mu martini.
• 47:36
  Charlotte Voisey: Absolutely.
• 47:36
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 47:36
  Charlotte Voisey: Martini has left the building.
• 47:37
  Charlotte Voisey: Did you say cream and cranberry juice?
• 47:39
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 47:39
  Charlotte Voisey: And you're fired as a bartender.
• 47:42
  Charlotte Voisey: Many things wrong with it.
• 47:43
  Charlotte Voisey: Alright.
• 47:43
  Charlotte Voisey: So what makes a martini a martini in Charlotte Purist.
• 47:47
  Charlotte Voisey: View.
• 47:49
  Charlotte Voisey: Ooh, this is controversial territory.
• 47:51
  Charlotte Voisey: Um, I would say it's a combination of gin or vodka and vermouth.
• 47:57
  Charlotte Voisey: Mm-hmm.
• 47:58
  Charlotte Voisey: Classically, right.
• 47:59
  Charlotte Voisey: This is where we're starting.
• 48:00
  Charlotte Voisey: Right.
• 48:00
  Charlotte Voisey: But what can I add in and still Or substitute, yeah.
• 48:03
  Charlotte Voisey: This is what Im thinking.
• 48:04
  Charlotte Voisey: Leave it still a martini.
• 48:05
  Charlotte Voisey: How far can my riff go before it's a different song?
• 48:08
  Charlotte Voisey: I think the vermouth can be riffed into something that adds, um, a bit of flavor.
• 48:15
  Charlotte Voisey: Mm-hmm.
• 48:15
  Charlotte Voisey: That.
• 48:17
  Charlotte Voisey: That botanical note preferably, but, you know, Chartres are here today.
• 48:22
  Charlotte Voisey: One could argue that a hint of Chartres has a similar role in a martini.
• 48:26
  Charlotte Voisey: That vermouth might, however, being so much stronger in alcohol, we'd have to like, um, So does it have to be all alcohol?
• 48:33
  Charlotte Voisey: Is that, is that part of being a martini?
• 48:36
  Charlotte Voisey: I think so.
• 48:38
  Charlotte Voisey: No juice?
• 48:39
  Charlotte Voisey: No, it's gotta be all boo.
• 48:40
  Charlotte Voisey: No, no juice, no syrup, no citrus.
• 48:42
  Charlotte Voisey: Right.
• 48:43
  Charlotte Voisey: Alright.
• 48:44
  Charlotte Voisey: I mean, oils, absolutely.
• 48:46
  Charlotte Voisey: We welcome that.
• 48:47
  Charlotte Voisey: Of course, Uhhuh.
• 48:47
  Charlotte Voisey: But, uh, we should share that, that Charlotte, in a previous life.
• 48:51
  Charlotte Voisey: Was, you know, one of the, the main, main, she was the lady, the main face lady at Hendrick's Chin.
• 48:56
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 48:56
  Charlotte Voisey: So she's, she knows what Joe talk, so there aren't a lot of people who know more about this question than she does.
• 49:02
  Charlotte Voisey: There's a fair few out there right now.
• 49:03
  Charlotte Voisey: Now there's, they're, if they're in the world, they're out there right now.
• 49:06
  Charlotte Voisey: Now, yeah, exactly.
• 49:06
  Charlotte Voisey: Exactly.
• 49:07
  Charlotte Voisey: They're all here under one roof, which is why you're asking these questions.
• 49:10
  Charlotte Voisey: But yeah, I mean, if, by the way, we've asked all this question and this is a question.
• 49:16
  Charlotte Voisey: There it was not quite defined, but if anyone's gonna define it, it's a consensus in, in this room.
• 49:21
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 49:21
  Charlotte Voisey: I think we've gotten 10 different answers.
• 49:23
  Charlotte Voisey: I think after today you, you've got it right.
• 49:25
  Charlotte Voisey: So I, I'll figure it out at the end of the day.
• 49:26
  Charlotte Voisey: I mean, there are people who will say, if it's not gin plus vermouth, it's not a martini.
• 49:30
  Charlotte Voisey: I mean, you may have heard that today.
• 49:31
  Charlotte Voisey: I don't know.
• 49:33
  Charlotte Voisey: I think most people will accept vodka in vermouth.
• 49:35
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 49:35
  Charlotte Voisey: Uh, but, I think the consensus that's coming around is, if you want to call it a martini, it's gotta be not cloudy.
• 49:41
  Charlotte Voisey: It's gotta be a clear spirit, and, and not a brown spirit.
• 49:45
  Charlotte Voisey: Even though historically you could use whiskey and sweet vermouth and, it's no juice, all booze.
• 49:51
  Charlotte Voisey: And, and that's, that's the absolutely seems to be the thing.
• 49:53
  Charlotte Voisey: Absolutely.
• 49:53
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 49:53
  Charlotte Voisey: Alright.
• 49:54
  Charlotte Voisey: When Mark and I started bartending in the 1980s Okay.
• 49:58
  Charlotte Voisey: When people ordered martinis in Manhattans Yeah.
• 50:00
  Charlotte Voisey: They were as likely to order them on the rocks as they were up.
• 50:03
  Charlotte Voisey: Yep.
• 50:03
  Charlotte Voisey: Yep.
• 50:04
  Charlotte Voisey: The martini on the rocks mm-hmm.
• 50:06
  Charlotte Voisey: Is, is gone the way of the do dober.
• 50:07
  Charlotte Voisey: Yep.
• 50:08
  Charlotte Voisey: Should it be revisited or is it dead where it's supposed to be?
• 50:11
  Charlotte Voisey: What do you think about Martini on the rocks?
• 50:13
  Charlotte Voisey: It's interesting'cause when I started bartending in the nineties, Uhhuh, I was taught with a martini.
• 50:18
  Charlotte Voisey: You asked three questions.
• 50:19
  Charlotte Voisey: Yes.
• 50:19
  Charlotte Voisey: Right.
• 50:19
  Charlotte Voisey: Upper on the rocks.
• 50:20
  Charlotte Voisey: Chin Vodka, Oliver Twit.
• 50:22
  Charlotte Voisey: Yes.
• 50:22
  Charlotte Voisey: That's, there is, those are the questions, remember?
• 50:24
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 50:24
  Charlotte Voisey: Those are the three questions.
• 50:25
  Charlotte Voisey: And nobody asks up on the rocks and Marshall.
• 50:27
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 50:28
  Charlotte Voisey: The Negroni two, by the way, but the other way round, right?
• 50:30
  Charlotte Voisey: Mm-hmm.
• 50:30
  Charlotte Voisey: Mm-hmm.
• 50:31
  Charlotte Voisey: It used to always be, um oh.
• 50:33
  Charlotte Voisey: And now it's on the rocks, but I think martini on the rocks.
• 50:36
  Charlotte Voisey: The thing about that is, for me, you lose the elegance.
• 50:39
  Charlotte Voisey: And one of the cornerstones of a martini.
• 50:41
  Charlotte Voisey: Not only the ingredients that we've just spoken about.
• 50:43
  Charlotte Voisey: Right.
• 50:44
  Charlotte Voisey: But I think a martini should always be elegant.
• 50:46
  Charlotte Voisey: I agree.
• 50:47
  Charlotte Voisey: And one easy way to do that is to serve it up in an elegant glass.
• 50:51
  Charlotte Voisey: Mm-hmm.
• 50:51
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 50:51
  Charlotte Voisey: So I don't think we should revisit the martini on the rocks, even though it might be a slightly easier sip.
• 50:59
  Charlotte Voisey: Final question.
• 51:00
  Charlotte Voisey: Mm-hmm.
• 51:00
  Charlotte Voisey: the experience you had, where you realized the martini was gonna be important in your life, that was when it, 2006, I was working with the Dorchester Hotel in London.
• 51:14
  Charlotte Voisey: We refurbed the Dorchester bar, and it was an homage to vermouth, whoa.
• 51:20
  Charlotte Voisey: And classic cocktails with vermouth that had kind of been long gone, gone, and forgotten, were brought back, but it was the.
• 51:29
  Charlotte Voisey: Just the care and reverence to classic cocktails.
• 51:32
  Charlotte Voisey: The martini, it was revisiting the Martine the first time I really learned about that cocktail.
• 51:37
  Charlotte Voisey: Um, but sitting at that bar once it was opened, and this was like the night before I left to move to the us.
• 51:43
  Charlotte Voisey: Mm-hmm.
• 51:43
  Charlotte Voisey: So this was big, like, wow, that's a big night.
• 51:45
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 51:46
  Charlotte Voisey: And having a martini in that moment, understanding the care uhhuh behind the drink, I was like, oh yeah, this is, this is the pinnacle of everything.
• 51:54
  Charlotte Voisey: Um, I love it.
• 51:55
  Charlotte Voisey: That's great.
• 51:56
  Charlotte Voisey: You know what I love Matt.
• 51:58
  Charlotte Voisey: Every person that we've talked to without hesitation has had a moment like that.
• 52:04
  Charlotte Voisey: Oh yeah.
• 52:05
  Charlotte Voisey: Every per'cause we've asked this that exact question or a similar question to every single person, and everybody's had that moment.
• 52:11
  Charlotte Voisey: And why is there a martini expo?
• 52:14
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah, because every person in this profession who's here today.
• 52:19
  Charlotte Voisey: Has had a moment like that.
• 52:19
  Charlotte Voisey: And every mar I would say most martini drinkers have probably had a moment that it's kind of like coming of age.
• 52:26
  Charlotte Voisey: It's kind of like growing up you're done with.
• 52:28
  Charlotte Voisey: Mm-hmm.
• 52:29
  Charlotte Voisey: Silly.
• 52:29
  Charlotte Voisey: I mean, you know, in college we made blue whales with country time lemonade and blue ke I in a garbage can.
• 52:34
  Charlotte Voisey: You know what I mean?
• 52:35
  Charlotte Voisey: Did a brand new garbage can though.
• 52:37
  Charlotte Voisey: You did buy a brand new garbage can.
• 52:38
  Charlotte Voisey: Oh.
• 52:39
  Charlotte Voisey: And we didn't get arrested, but the martini.
• 52:41
  Charlotte Voisey: I, I felt like James Bond when I learned how to appreciate a martini.
• 52:45
  Charlotte Voisey: It is, it's a rite of passage.
• 52:47
  Charlotte Voisey: It's that moment where you feel sophisticated.
• 52:50
  Charlotte Voisey: It's a little bit seductive, if I can use that word.
• 52:53
  Charlotte Voisey: Right.
• 52:53
  Charlotte Voisey: You can.
• 52:53
  Charlotte Voisey: You're allowed.
• 52:54
  Charlotte Voisey: Yeah.
• 52:54
  Charlotte Voisey: And it's, it's special.
• 52:56
  Charlotte Voisey: And I think having a martini.
• 52:58
  Charlotte Voisey: Isn't an everyday thing for me anymore.
• 53:01
  Charlotte Voisey: And I love that you said anymore.
• 53:03
  Charlotte Voisey: I love that you said anymore because I was like, I knew you Charlotte, but that's only because I had the privilege of working with Hendricks and, and doing that.
• 53:10
  Charlotte Voisey: But it, I don't think it should be an everyday thing.
• 53:12
  Charlotte Voisey: It's such a special drink and moment and experience and the glassware and the temperature and all, everything that goes into a perfect martini.
• 53:20
  Charlotte Voisey: It shouldn't be an everyday thing.
• 53:22
  Charlotte Voisey: It's a, it's a special thing to cherish.
• 53:24
  Charlotte Voisey: Love it.
• 53:25
  Charlotte Voisey: Well Charlotte, thanks for taking the time to talk to us about the martini.
• 53:28
  Charlotte Voisey: Thank you.
• 53:28
  Charlotte Voisey: No one more qualified to talk about the Martini than you and uh, and we will see you at tails of the cocktail next year.
• 53:34
  Charlotte Voisey: Yes.
• 53:34
  Charlotte Voisey: We'll, a good, can't wait.
• 53:36
  Charlotte Voisey: Alright.
• 53:36
  Charlotte Voisey: Thank you so much.
• 53:36
  Charlotte Voisey: Great.
• 53:37
  Charlotte Voisey: Thanks Charlotte.
• 53:37
  Charlotte Voisey: Thank you.
• 53:38
  Charlotte Voisey: Thanks Charlotte.
• 53:38
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: Hey, that was a great show.
• 53:40
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: Charlotte Voisey.
• 53:41
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: Love her.
• 53:42
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: you're gonna love the next set of shows we have too.
• 53:45
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: Yeah.
• 53:45
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: Coming up on Thursday, we're gonna have William Elliot from Maison Premier, an amazing place out in Brooklyn.
• 53:50
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: We have Tim Cooper from Ford's Gin and Sarah Morrissey, recently of Voor, which is one of the.
• 53:56
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: Most important cocktails to hit Manhattan in a long time.
• 53:58
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: Stick with us and um, Saturday Show will be for restaurant guys regulars only.
• 54:03
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: So it's time to sign up and become a restaurant.
• 54:05
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: Guys, regular.
• 54:06
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: Hope you had a good time.
• 54:07
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: We'll see you again on Thursday.
• 54:08
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: I'm Francis Shot.
• 54:08
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: I'm Mark Pascal.
• 54:09
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: We are the restaurant guys.
• 54:10
  the-restaurant-guys_1_09-23-2025_163406: You can find out more@restaurantguyspodcast.com.